The After Sermon /// Changed lives… or just changed behavior?

Welcome to The After Sermon by Plum Creek Church.

This bite-sized discussion is where we get to sit down with our communicators and ask a few follow up questions connected to the weekend message, unpack it on a deeper level, and explore how it all relates to our journey of following Jesus more fully.

Does following Jesus simply make us behave differently—or does it actually make Jesus more visible?

In this episode of After Sermon, Eric sits down with Doug Miller to continue the conversation from Ephesians 5. They explore why Paul wasn’t simply giving Christians a list of rules to follow, but inviting them into a way of life that helps the world see Jesus more clearly.

The conversation explores why true transformation begins with our desires, why behavior modification can never replace spiritual formation, and how everyday practices shape us into people who increasingly reflect the heart of Christ.

If Jesus really changes lives, what should people notice when they encounter ours?

This conversation is also available on our YouTube channel along with the full sermon that this discussion is based on.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@plumcreekchurch

You can learn more about Plum Creek Church by visiting our website as well.

Website: https://plumcreek.church/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey, I am so glad that you're joining us at the after sermon where we get a chance to sit down with our communicator from this week, from the week of the message, literally coming right off the stage and talk about the message and maybe a few things that didn't make it into the message. We are in an Ephesians series. By the way, if you haven't listened to any of these messages, you can do that uh on our podcast, any podcasting platform. But we're in this Ephesian series, and you were teaching through Ephesians chapter five. Yeah. Give just a little taste of the message. Particularly, I thought the setup was really, really important.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Yeah. Well, it's a chapter full of like all of these different sections that have thoughts that it really address different ways that we behave, things we do, shouldn't do, et cetera, et cetera. And I was trying to unpack this idea of what Paul's trying to communicate here, because I don't think it's about any of these things exclusively. It's the bigger picture of how by the way we live, we put Jesus on display to the world around us. And then uh in the message I shared that Beth had just gotten an eye test, and it just got me thinking about when an eye doctor asks you, is it clearer or is it blurrier? Is it clearer or is it blurrier? And really that's what Paul's challenge is to the church at Ephesus and ultimately to each of us that call ourselves Christ followers, is the way we're living, putting Jesus on display in a way that's making it more blurry, or is it more clear?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

What makes it more clear?

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Well, first of all, it's gonna stand out. It's gonna the when we choose to live the Jesus way, it's gonna stand out because it will be different than the prevailing culture around us. So when Paul was talking about these things, it's the motivation of our heart, and again, it's not just behavioral modification, it's the motive that's deep in us that says, I'm gonna do some things differently, and I'm gonna pay attention to what Jesus said, and that's what Paul was talking about, what Jesus had said, and how then can those things apply to our lives? And he just kind of lays it out for us in Ephesians 5. Lots of different areas and our relationships and the way that we think and the things that we focus on and the things that we worship and all of the things that so it just starts making Jesus visible because we're living different.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

You had said up front, Beth's vision changed, but the things in the world hadn't. I mean, they just became more clear. I like that metaphor because when we think of Jesus, he doesn't change, but the way in which people see him is directly connected to his people.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Exactly. And I mean it's we're quick to share commentary on the state of the culture around us. And it can be frustrating and people can be angry about that. And but when we take a look back inside and say, well, man, listen, part of the plan here, probably the first biggest thing that the world around us will see to determine whether or not the gospel really changes lives is you and me. Yeah, right. And so how do we interact with each other? How do we do what we do? How do and he talks about marriages and all the things? And so all of this stuff then becomes the way the world sees whether or not this narrative that we speak of actually changes lives. Does it really do that? And so, you know, at Plum Creek we talk a lot about changed lives, changing lives, and so this is one of the ways that this happens.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

If changed lives, changing lives is the prevailing idea that we have pursued as a church, is it fair to say blurred lives blur lives? Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, the flip is true. Yeah. Flip is true, right? Yeah. Like if we live inconsistent with what what I think is inconsistent with the posture of Jesus, right? Like his most of what you were talking about, there's a particular posture that either draws people in, clarifies who Jesus was, or repels people, where they're like, oh man, I d I don't want anything to do with that, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah. And the hard part is we're most often vocal about some of these things. Yeah. And so if you if people know we're following Christ, then we better follow Christ. Like we better show the world that's watching that that we are different because Jesus is in my life. And the incongruence when it's not, that's pretty debilitating to the to the message of the gospel moving forward to a culture that desperately needs to know him.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Could you distill it down to one thing that you think from all of this really does create more clarity?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Well, first of all, it has to come from proper motivation, and I think that's that's the key. We're not just going to make a checklist of things that we're wanting to do different. Yeah, right. I think the more we focus on him, we talk a lot about practices. We've been spending a lot of time talking about practices at Plum Creek, and we put those things into place, and what happens is they become the paths that bring us closer and closer and closer to the heart of God. And then we listen to his voice and we respond to his promptings. And so my prayer this week is for all of those that are Christ's followers that will just listen and uh we'll follow his lead when he when he says blurrier or clearer this week because of the way we interacted with someone, whether it's in the neighborhood or at work or anywhere else. I mean, our families, we have to live the Jesus way.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah, I was thinking about in in your message, you talked about four different distinct clarifiers, lenses, things that clarify it. But that first one really is key. And it it's the want, like your wonder. You know, we all have a wonder. We have this thing inside of us. Dallas, Willard, who we often refer to, talks about when when we go through a process of transformation, like true transformation, it always starts with a vision about what life could look like. There has to come a point where you want life with Jesus more than anything else, right? Part of our role in this is making sure that we understand that when we when we interact with someone, we might be the trigger for someone wanting something different. They look at a life and go, man, dude, something flows out of them, something alive in them. There's something, and I want that more than anything else. That is huge in terms of the process. Because if you don't have a vision for what life in the kingdom is, then you won't really want it. And if you don't want it, you won't walk it. That's it, right? You won't do these things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

And I think we're also concerned about perfection in this more than we should be. Yeah, I agree with that. Because it's a process, man. And so it's not like you're just gonna magically wake up one day and all of a sudden you look like Jesus. It's this every day. Stay connected, listen to his voice, through his power, do what he tells you to do, and watch what happens over the course of time. And we become more like Jesus, and it's gonna take the rest of our lives to do that. But the hope and the prayer and the desire along the way is that as this process is continuing, people see Jesus in me.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Well, that's why we use the word a lot around here, rearrangement, that it is this consistent, hey, I'm going to rearrange my life around these practices, this way of Jesus, you know. Um, that's what the ancients called it the way, practicing the way. It was a way. I'm gonna rearrange my life around it consistently, over and over again on repeat, until there comes a day where, as Dallas said, I'm not just modifying my behavior, I'm becoming the kind of person where all this stuff just sort of flows out of me, right? Like all this stuff flows out, and when that happens, people notice. They sure do. Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks, Doug. Thanks for thanks and I'm glad I'm glad you tuned in for the after message. Um, I always get that wrong. That's why you always see me looking out of the corner of my eye going, did I say that right? Either way, you're here, and if you want to hear the whole message, you can go to your podcasting platform of choice, download the message, listen to the message, go back, listen to all the Ephesian series. I think you'll be glad that you did. So thank you. Thank you. Race and peace.