The Courage Checklist with Jennifer Chambers

After suffering a serious brain injury at 15, Jennifer's care team developed a list of things she would never be able to do. Jennifer made it her mission to accomplish as many things on that list as possible, which has led her to a career as a multi-passionate author and businesswoman.

Jennifer Chambers believes you should follow your creative goals wherever they take you. As such, she writes about strong people in fiction and in women’s history, and she talks about the darker side of humanity in her writing on true crime. She’s a podcaster at The Courage Checklist and Writer’s Radio podcasts. A co-owner of Groundwaters Publishing, she founded TEDxVenetaWomen & attended the Iowa Summer Writing Program. Chambers lives in the rainy Pacific Northwest.

Her latest book,  Murder and Mayhem in the  Willamette  Valley, releases April 24th, 2023

Find her on IG:
@thecouragechecklist
@writers.radio
Or her website: www.jenniferbyerschambers.com

Transcript

Amber: [00:00:00] Today on the Life After podcast, we have Jennifer Chambers. She is an author and she is the podcast host of the Courage Checklist, and she has a super cool backstory.

So Jennifer, do you wanna fill us in, how you got to this point where I'm gonna launch a podcast and why you named it the Courage Checklist? 

Jennifer: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having. My story kind of is a little bit of a long one. But I'll shorten it, as much as I can. My podcast is called The Courage Checklist cause when I was 15 I was in a car accident and I had a brain injury where I lost all memory before that point and I had to relearn everything from walking and speaking to tying my shoes. Everything you can imagine. I, I didn't remember anything. I still don't have any memories since before that time. But the interesting part for me is that after I had somewhat [00:01:00] recovered ,recovered to the point where I could go back to school, my parents and doctors and therapists because I had every kind of occupational emotional, every kind of therapist you can also imagine. They all got together in my parents' living room and because I was 15, I wasn't supposed to be there, but I wasn't gonna not listen . So I listened in and they were actually making a list written down of all the things that, because of my brain injury, I'd never be able to accomplish . 

And I couldn't write yet, but at that point I kind of internalized that and I really made it my mission to do everything I can on that list. And I keep adding to it because I feel like it, it spurred me on. It's all kinds of stuff too. All different kinds of stuff. The thing that was so devastating was that it was stuff that most people take for granted.

Like, driving a car [00:02:00] was so difficult for me. I'm 46 and I learned when I was 42 , but I learned, I got there . So yeah, it's, it's really nice for me to use my show. Not everyone has a dramatic list like I do, but everybody's got a list of things either in their head or even written down somewhere of things that they want to do or be. And I wanna encourage people and hear their stories of how they're able to accomplish stuff in their own life. 

Amber: That had to be a little bit devastating, not a little bit. That had to be a lot devastating to overhear , here's your sentence of all the things that you're not gonna get to do.

So, huge credit too, of, I'm gonna just turn this right around and make that my lifelong mission to check those things off. Mm-hmm. 

Jennifer: I make it sound really fast. It was not fast, and I had lots and lots of help. I mean, I never want to make it sound like I did it on my own. I was really lucky to have a, a supportive community.

Even though I didn't know [00:03:00] who my family was, they were supportive. Eventually I believed them. It's kind of weird when, your first visit back. I lived in the hospital for about eight weeks and then you got to have short visits and then, you know, building back up to going home. And it was so bizarre to look at all these, I don't know about you, but my mom has like the wall of fame where everybody's pictures are going down the hallway and I didn't recognize any of the people, even myself, so that was weird.

But eventually I was like, they're working awfully hard for people who aren't my family, so I might as well believe them. 

Amber: That had to be so weird though, to not even know the people that were like, hey, by the way, we're your family. And to see pictures of all these things that you couldn't remember.

Jennifer: It was, it was. I would like to say that that also went away fast, but it didn't. I mean, [00:04:00] one of the things about being brain injured too is that as you recover, you have a huge sense of, not persecution, but kind of like, why is this happening to me? And you don't believe anyone because you can't believe yourself.

And that was the hardest thing, was learning to trust my own instincts because everyone had their idea of, of who you are. . And so if you don't know who you are, you have to take from all the people around you who they think you are. That was one of the most difficult pieces, was trying to really learn to trust and believe myself.

Amber: What are some things you did to figure out, who is Jennifer? Like I have these pieces that people are telling. We all know that's someone's perception, right? We have our own internal world. So what were some things you did to rediscover who you were? 

Jennifer: I spent a lot of time by myself. That was kind of necessary too. One of the easiest things to come back was [00:05:00] reading and it was great because I could have that pause. It was so difficult to relearn inter interacting with people and learning to read facial cues and expressions and the amount of time you pause between a conversation, that kind of stuff.

It's inherent when you grow up learning it. But for me it was thrown back into it, right? So it was really easy for me to, to read about people and to learn about that and, and maybe I wasn't always reading. I was 15, right? So I read lots of, Stephen King and lots of very dramatic stories like Jane Eyre you know.

Maybe I should have read something a little more realistic, but it was still great. Reading conversations was very helpful for me. It's kind of funny that that really played into what I like to do. I like to tell stories because that's the way that I learned is by [00:06:00] hearing stories and I can write them now.

 That was really helpful. And then also, as much as I hate practicing stuff, I try everything. I try everything. I really have tried to not hold myself back from attempting anything that might work for me because I never know what's gonna be the thing. That holds over in my writing too.

 That's been a very successful thing for me is that I'll write whatever I feel like writing. I don't wanna be constrained by a label or somebody else's idea of it anymore. I really try anything that appeals to me and, and that seems to have been working. Most of the time. It doesn't always work.

Sometimes it's spectacularly wrong, but most of the time pretty good.

Amber: I can relate to that in some places. My home environment was pretty chaotic. I didn't really learn any fantastic people skills, so, I read a lot and I would people watch. My early adulthood, I would watch the moms at playgroup.

How do they ask each other, to a [00:07:00] play date, what do you do there? Just observe . It wasn't because of a brain injury but when you have that awareness of I don't quite know how to navigate, having just a normal conversation, it's different.

It takes a lot of practice. I can totally see how reading would've been helpful for that. And then for you to translate that now into your work, that has to have extra layers of meaning for you. Mm-hmm. 

Jennifer: It is, it's pretty great. Actually, to take it a step further, one of the most interesting things for me, and I didn't know that it would be that great, is to be able to help other people with their work and to pass it on in that way.

 I'm not active in it as much anymore. We don't do a whole lot with it, but I started writing for a literary magazine and then ended up purchasing the company. I own half of the company and we published a literary magazine. We used to publish it once a quarter and then we published other people's books.

 It was so rewarding to work with other people [00:08:00] especially because we didn't constraint it to you had to be a quote unquote professional author. We felt like everybody's on their road at their own individual point, right? So all we can do is help people. It's been really rewarding. I love that part.

I think that part's really, really fun. I don't get to do it as much, but I do like it a lot. 

Amber: You see people get their work out there. Yeah. into the world. 

Jennifer: That's one of the things that I like with the podcast. It's a different format, but to help people get to the heart of the things that they value about themselves. I mean, that's part of what really lights me up, is helping people recognize their own courage and their own story. 

Amber: And you talked about how with your literary company, even playing field, right? 

Jennifer: Mm-hmm.

Amber: If you had the courage to write a book, we're gonna help you publish it.

And podcasts, that's one thing I love about it, is everyone gets to bring their voice. Wherever you're at is where you're at. But it has value, right? Because every person who's a podcaster it's different and it should be that way. That's why there's [00:09:00] room for so many, because you could be interviewed 20 times and each interview is gonna be a little different.

I think that's cool about it.

Jennifer: Absolutely. and I really love that too. Another thing that is helpful for me about podcast. I I don't just have a brain injury. I also have a really rare autoimmune disease. So my mobility is sometimes limited and it's been a, a joy to start podcasting especially during the pandemic because, it has given me a new outlet that is accessible for me in a different way, and I really appreciate that.

Because of my autoimmune disease. It took about 20 years for me to get a diagnosis. You know how like everybody's got like their fun facts or like two truths and a lie kind of thing? Mine is that I have my own disease, so that's cool I guess , 

It acts like other autoimmune diseases in that it's sort of like rheumatoid arthritis, but it isn't. Down to , a gene level. I have some sort of a [00:10:00] deformity on one of my genes. I can't remember which one.

 I have weird stuff . My joint swells and then other parts of my body swells and my throat closes. I get rashes. Really weird. I went to 15 different doctors trying to figure it out. So eventually we were kind of, not despondent, but my family was helping me and my husband was trying to help figure out a way to deal with it. I don't react well to pain medication, so I didn't wanna let go on anything that would be difficult.

It only lasts for a couple weeks at a time, but it would keep going and it kept happening exacerbated by stress, of course, . I just kept looking for answers and I found a study at the National Institute of Health. And I thought, okay, that might work. I flew out there, cause it's across the country for me, and I had all my hopes on this, that these people were gonna finally figure it out. I stayed there for a week and did all [00:11:00] these tests and then they were like, I'm sorry, but we don't know what it is. 

So I went home and I was still really upset and not fixed. And they emailed me and they thought, you know, we don't have a name for what you have, but we might have a medicine that could help you. So they gave me this crazy rare medicine that's made in one pharmacy in the United States, and I inject it every day and I have a life again.

It's been a really interesting experience, but I'm still grateful. I'm so grateful that I took a chance. I hate doctors. I lived in hospitals. I don't really like to go back there, but I had to face that fear in order to get help and so now I have my own disease.

Amber: You had all this persistence, right?

To overcome your brain injury and not accept the opinion of your care team. It might take me, what, 27 years, but I'm gonna figure this out cause it took you about that long to figure out how to drive. But carrying over that persistence of [00:12:00] there has to be something right?

You don't make up that your joints are swelling . It can be frustrating when you have these symptoms that come and go . We've had that happen with some of our kids too, where they know something's not right, but they just can't figure it out because it doesn't check the right boxes.

Sometimes doctors run out of ideas and it does require a lot of persistence mm-hmm. To go back again and again and again, until you get an answer. 

 One of the things you said I wanted to go back to . You said writing was hard for you at first .

Jennifer: Mm-hmm. 

Amber: So what was that evolution where you got to the point where you could write and then I love to write enough that I'm gonna be an author and 

Jennifer: mm-hmm. '

Amber: eventually own my own company. 

Jennifer: Well, I guess to go back to the very beginning for me. I think of my beginning of course, as after my accident because you know, the rest of it, it's not that it doesn't count, but I don't remember that anyway.

It's so hard to explain, but even learning the meaning of words was so difficult. You can look at [00:13:00] something that's the color red, but if you can't read yet and you don't understand writing, how do you conceptualize the color red or anything? It was so difficult for me to, to re-recognize the meanings of words and sounds and recreate all of that. But it was so miraculous, really, that the doctors were able to teach me fairly quickly as these things go. Then as I kept progressing through that, I think the reason why I wanted to write was because I didn't have any other examples of people who had survived like I had. And now there's a lot of literature and a lot of memoirs and things written about people who had injuries like mine. But at that time it was pretty rare for a person to survive with the kind of ability levels that I had. So I wanted other people to understand how it felt.

 That was what spurred me on. My first book that I [00:14:00] wrote actually was about people who have brain injuries. It was fictionalized, but I was able to talk to a bunch of other people who had brain injuries and then use my own experience to write a story about two women who had brain injuries and how they survived together.

I just really wanted to be able to express myself, you know? So for me, that was really my goal. Because I do write all different kinds of things, I just like the way that the words work together. I think they're more meaningful for me because they had to be reclaimed, I guess, 

Amber: The only thing I can relate it to is trying to learn another language and you're like, I know there's a word for this. I remember this from one of the lessons, but I'm not quite sure what it is. Uhhuh 

for that to be your whole reality , I've never thought about that. 

What does that mean, the color red ? There's so many different, shades of things .

Jennifer: Mm-hmm. .

Amber: That had to just be such an experience and I, I can see how that moved you into writing. Mm-hmm. 

That was really powerful what you said too. I took a parenting class , one of the things they said in there was [00:15:00] that if you have a kid that's having a challenging experience to find books about it, because if there's a book about it, it means you're not alone.

It means there's at least one other person that's had that experience. That's really powerful what you did, not only for yourself, but then for other people because that's what our stories do, right? They take away that isolation and they connect us to each other.

 Is that part of your ongoing healing , to continually do this?

Jennifer: Absolutely. 

 That's why the iteration of this podcast is so important to me is that it's not just me. I my story is interesting to me, right

but you're absolutely right everyone's story is so powerful. And I think that people being able to tell their stories and people being able to have someone relate to them, I mean, human connection, that's what it's all about. I think that any way that I can amplify that I want to, if I can . And I think that I can learn something from anyone's story and I hope that someone can learn something from mine.

You know I feel like [00:16:00] there's so much that we can gain from each other when we are able to express what happened with our own life. 

Amber: Yes. And I think it goes back to that courage piece that you talked about, that. There's some vulnerability there, right? When we're getting ready to share our story, it's so powerful.

 I love to hear people's stories . The everyday people, that's my favorite is to dig out their stories because they have one, right? We all have a story and I think that's fun to pull that out of people.

 I'm just thinking about different times, being on planes and getting curious and pulling some things out. 

Jennifer: Oh, I definitely agree. Well, and I think that that's really my whole perspective and maybe to a fault, but I like to learn stuff. , I wanna know about everything and I wanna know about everyone and what made you do this. Maybe I'm a little too curious, but we all have so much of value, so to be able to share any of that is just amazing. 

Amber: So I have two questions that came to mind. My first is, how would you encourage [00:17:00] people to use writing in their own life? Maybe they're not ever gonna publish a book, but mm-hmm. , how can people find value in writing? What are some ways that they can use writing to work for them or things like that? 

Jennifer: Well, one of my big things, and this is something that I talk about in my podcast, 

Everyone's got their, their list, right? So my thought, when you see something on paper written and down, when you have your list of things that you want to accomplish or things that you have done, I really encourage everyone to write those down. Even if you have like 10 things, even if it's three things and put it somewhere you can see it all the time.

I put it By where I brush my teeth. So I see it all the time. And not only does it help you kind of think about where you can go, it helps to remind you of where you've been because you can cross those off. I learned to play the guitar, I learned to, whatever I learned [00:18:00] to play soccer, whatever your thing is, and then you can think about what you might want to do in the future.

That one thing I think is really important to write down your list of things for yourself, but I also really encourage everyone to use journals. I think that journaling kind of gets a bad rap because it sounds so monumental. I've done a lot of different journaling styles and I love I'm doing actually a workshop for Julia Cameron's the Artist Way, 

I love it. You write three morning pages every morning and it's kind of like a brain dump, so you just write anything you want for three pages, but that's kind of daunting. Cause a lot of people are like three pages. I don't have time for that. I don't think you have to do that. I think that any kind of journaling that's meaningful for you is, is the way to go. 

 It can be a great tool for you to find out stuff about yourself too. So just write free hand for as long as you like. I like to set a timer [00:19:00] and not necessarily do X amount of pages, but even if it's five minutes, even if it's three minutes, even if it's just writing down something you're grateful for once a day.

I think you can learn a lot about yourself , if you use writing 

Amber: yes, and this is bringing something to my mind, that when we take an idea and we write it, it does something different in our brain. It helps us process and it helps remember it differently.

That mm-hmm. , it's kind of some neuroscience behind it. Obviously it's fun and it's helpful, but there's also some neuroscience too pen to paper. , 

Jennifer: Definitely, definitely. That's something that I've looked at with my own stuff and I think just giving it a try and having it not be serious if it's something , that is daunting. It's funny, I have journals that are fancy and I have journals that sometimes I just like to write in a three ring binder because that's what I feel like.

It just seems like sometimes it's so serious and then if [00:20:00] it's just something like that, then I feel like I can actually do it. But I think just whatever works for you is the way to go. 

Amber: 

That's great advice to just find something that works. Maybe it's one word, maybe it's one sentence, maybe it's five minutes, but to just explore, like you said, that curiosity, what makes you, you?

 What works for you, what makes mm-hmm. , some things click for you. I'm just thinking too, times my kids have made their own journals for crafts. Have fun with it. It shouldn't be a chore. , it's a process. It should really be for you and to just kinda have that permission to make it your own and be super curious. 

Jennifer: Definitely . I encourage anybody who wants to, to write stories, to, to write them any kind of story. , if you have that sort of idea.

I've been writing a lot of non-fiction books lately just because I like to research. And that's valid too. there's nothing wrong with that's just my art form that I like the best, but I think there's a lot of value to it. 

Amber: Sort of related to what we're talking about, I had come across this 250 word writing [00:21:00] contest.

 Uhhuh, .I hadn't done anything like that probably since middle school, just for the fun of writing. It was a challenge , how do you write a story in 250 words? It was fun. So, so many ways to do it. 

Jennifer: Oh, I love those. 

I love those. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Amber: I feel like we've all at least had that one English teacher that kind of sucks the life out of writing. , this isn't for class, you know what I mean? Make it your own experience.

You talked about how like other people had this perception of who you were. It can be that way for writing. I'm not giving all English teachers a bad rap just all the language rules they have to teach, sometimes that fun piece isn't there. Writing doesn't have to necessarily be, that technical it can just be an exercise for you. 

Jennifer: Yeah. And if you have any inklings to do it, find a way that's fun. I like to do things that are challenging but fun. Like I love Haiku, I think is really fun just because it's challenging to get the different syllables.

I, I'm always terrible at it. I write really bad poetry when I write it, but it's fun. [00:22:00] I like it. And that's part of the reason why I like to write so many different things. I mean, I started out writing horror movies and horror stories, just because I like that kind of stuff.

And then I've written kids and recipes and fantasy and women's and everything. Just find what works for you in anything, but particularly in writing. Anything that makes it fun. Yeah

Amber: I can just hear Fly Lady in my head. She's the one that teaches you how to clean your house.

Jennifer: I love her. Oh my gosh. 

Amber: Right? That's one of her things is if it's fun, it'll get done. I can hear her saying that in my head. .

Jennifer: I love her. She's so great 

Amber: she was so helpful to me, I love her too. Complete sidebar but it's true. We can make it fun. That's part of the fun of being an adult too, is you can choose how you do things , and find a way that you really enjoy it. 

Jennifer: Yeah. Make your own rules. 

Amber: So this is a question that I like to ask anyone that's had a major health issue . What was helpful to you from the people that were supporting to you? What would you tell somebody that's kind of in that support role or [00:23:00] that caregiver role? What's your piece of advice to them for helping someone whether it's a brain injury or something else. What were the things that really made you feel supported or really helped you the most? 

Jennifer: I think one of the things that people with chronic illnesses often have problems with, and I would say myself included, it's really hard sometimes to not feel gaslit by doctors if you don't have symptoms that are explainable.

 I sympathize with doctors because I know they're busy and they have lots of people and lots of their own stuff that they have to deal with.

I had too many doctors just kind of pat me on my head and send me on away. You know, I, I think that listening to people is the most important thing you can do as a support person. And I did have those people too, but I did have an awful lot of people that were just really willing to not listen anymore and just be like, oh, well, you're too weird.

This is just too bizarre. [00:24:00] I don't know, take some Tylenol and move on, that kind of thing. . So just listening, I think, but that's good advice for anyone, right? To hear people is all we really want. 

Amber: Yes. And I think you made such a good point . Especially when it's invisible illnesses, when it's not something you can see. Just believe them and hear their story and , hear what they have to say. I think you're right that that's incredibly important to validate their experience. Mm-hmm. and sit with their story. Mm-hmm. . 

Jennifer: Yeah. I'm really grateful to the people who did listen. I have to say that. 

Amber: It makes a huge, huge difference. I had my own fight with a genetic condition getting a diagnosis that all my kids had, but the doctors are like, but it's so rare. , it's so interesting when there's so much resistance for the doctors, cuz in my case, yes, that's a genetic condition. Yes, it's super rare, but four of my [00:25:00] kids had it and I had all the symptoms so it this isn't too far of a leap . Mm-hmm. 

But yeah, it is hard. I think doctors have some limits from our medical system. If you're in a support role, sometimes that is helpful if someone can go along with you to a doctor's appointment and be like, they're not making this up. I've seen some of these things too. 

So the other thing that you are working on is you are finishing up a journal that ties in, right?

Jennifer: I am actually I'm writing a courage checklist book that is some of my interviews from the podcast. And then I'm doing a book tour about my other book that's coming out this summer. And, I'm also writing the journal that goes along with it. I guess no rest for the Wicked. I have a lot of projects going at any one time.

But the journal is really fun because journaling can be, and I wanted to provide, a way to tie into the podcast for people to explore their own courage , and really [00:26:00] learn about themselves in a different way.

And I think that the journal will help with that. 

 My book that's coming out in April is actually not related to the Courage Checklist at all. It's true crime. But like I say, I write lots of different stuff, I think that everybody should follow all of the threads that are interesting to them.

Amber: Right. I feel this is the new term, being multi-passionate, right? Like, mm, why not? If you're curious about it and it matters to you, I like it. Why not? Yeah, 

Jennifer: I like that. That is so much better than being scatter brained. I think that's great. . . 

Amber: I've worked for myself for a while, so mm-hmm. I feel like the thing for a long time was you have to find a niche. You have to find a niche. Right? Some people like you are multi-passionate and it would be counterproductive. I'm imagining for you, because you're so curious and because you love research and because you love to explore. If you were told, well, you can only write historical fiction, you probably would have no motivation to write because it would just be so limiting for you. 

Jennifer: Yes. Oh my [00:27:00] gosh. Yes, exactly that. One great thing that my experiences have taught me, that if you have follow through, having all of these directions could be a great thing.

Because the one thing that I have learned, and I was talking about this the other day with someone, I think that it's an unfortunate thing if you have had a brush with illness but you learn that you just don't have time to waste. I chose to get going with life early, and I chose to have my children early because , I didn't know how much time I would get. None of us do. Right. I had a very recent example, right, with my brain injury and , with my other illnesses. You just have to take the chances when you can. See what happens. And I feel like the, the more I do that, the happier I am because I don't leave the stones unturned ,and I can keep going.

So for me, that's, that's really important.[00:28:00] 

Amber: That's very powerful advice. You don't know if you're gonna get another chance. That's something in the forefront of my mind too, because my mom died when I was very young.

 It's different when you have that awareness. And I've had my own health issues . It's an unfortunate gift, I guess when you're presented with your own mortality of like, crap, why would I not try this thing? Why would I not explore this thing 

you know? I agree with you that it important to explore all the interests that we have. Cause we don't know where it's gonna go. 

Jennifer: That's right. You never know what's gonna be your, your next big passionate thing. You never know. Oh yeah. 

Amber: What is it? That butterfly effect thing too?

Mm-hmm. we just don't ever know what we're doing, how that might impact someone else. It might be some, simple conversation, but we just don't know what we're giving to other people when we take those chances, 

Jennifer: That's true, that's true. 

Amber: [00:29:00] Is there anything else you wanna share? I want to make sure that you feel complete, that you feel like you've gotten the opportunity to share anything that you'd want to share.

Jennifer: Thank you for letting me talk about my workbook. I I'm excited about that. , I just appreciate being able to talk about my show and my stories. 

Amber: And if people want to find you and find some of your work or find your podcast, where might they be able to find you?

I'll put it in the show notes, but I know sometimes people are driving when they listen 

Jennifer: I love it when people follow me on Instagram at the Courage Checklist.. And I also have a website, JenniferByersChamber.com. Those are both great places to find me. If you wanna look at my books. They're available at any bookstore or through Amazon. My Amazon authors page shows all of my books. Actually, I have my book that's coming out April 24th, so I'm super excited. . 

 Congratulations. That's a huge thing to celebrate. 

 Thank you you had some really great advice for life and for writing and exploring ourselves. I appreciate you being vulnerable [00:30:00] and sharing your story and sharing those pieces with us.

Thank you very much. Thanks so much. This has been lovely.