Bitcoiners - Live From Bitcoin Beach

Bitcoin Country Or State Capture? Bukele Finally Exposed The Real Tension in El Salvador | Giacomo Zucco, Knut Svanholm, Jethro Toro

• Mike Peterson

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Recorded in the middle of Bitcoin Month, this episode brings together Knut Svanholm, Giacomo Zucco, Mike Peterson, and Jethro Toro in El Zonte, El Salvador. They unpack what it feels like to live through Bitcoin Historico at the National Palace San Salvador, Adopting Bitcoin in San Salvador, and the Bitcoin Beach Festival on the coast. From free pupusas and packed plazas to barefoot plebs and kids everywhere, you get a ground-level view of why El Salvador still feels like Bitcoin Country after the El Salvador legal tender law and why so many Bitcoiners keep coming back.

The crew shared the story everyone asks about, their surreal invitation to a formal dinner with President Bukele. Giacomo explains how he gifted a bottle of Dictador rum, they talk about Bukele’s quick jokes about Libertarian anarchism and public sector jobs, and they explain what was actually discussed about Bitcoin adoption, circular economy experiments, and bottom-up projects like Bitcoin Beach and Bitcoin Berlin. It is not a press release, it is what it felt like for plebs and authors like Knut Svanholm and educators like Giacomo Zucco to suddenly find themselves at a presidential table with Max Keiser & Stacy Herbert and other Bitcoin builders.

They also go deep on the work behind the scenes. Mike Peterson shares an update on Bitcoin Beach and the push to launch at least 14 new circular economy projects across El Salvador, plus the new Bitcoin-themed boutique hotel, the Citadel of Hope, and a pickleball court in Punta Mango. Giacomo walks through the three pillars of Plan B Network, global Bitcoin education like Cubo Plus and Node Nation, physical hubs in places such as Lugano, London, and future hubs in San Salvador, and an emerging Bitcoin venture path and startup support. Along the way, they touch on the IMF pressure, how the government stayed committed through bear markets after El Salvador, legal tender went live, and why ideas like Libertarian socialism still get a fair hearing in off-the-record debates.

Running through the episode is the culture piece. Knut talks about his books, the Bitcoin Infinity framing, his talks at Bitcoin Historico inside the National Palace San Salvador, and why Adopting Bitcoin feels more like a festival than a standard conference. The group tells the origin story of Satoshi Rokamoto, the improvised Bitcoin rock band that now shows up at events from Mexico to Lugano, often playing long after the sound crew tries to shut things down. 

If you care about Bitcoin in El Salvador, circular economy models, or just want to know what it is really like on the ground during Bitcoin Month, this conversation will probably make you start checking flights.

If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a Bitcoiner who has El Salvador on their list, leave a comment with your favorite story from Bitcoin Month, and hit subscribe so you do not miss the next chapter of Bitcoin Country.

-Bitcoin Beach Team



Connect and Learn more about Giacomo, Knut, Jethro:

Giacomo Zucco
X: https://x.com/giacomozucco
Web: https://www.giacomozucco.com/ 

Knut Svanholm
X: https://x.com/knutsvanholm
YT: https://www.youtube.com/@BitcoinInfinityShow   

Jethro Toro
X: https://x.com/JethroToro 


Support and follow Bitcoin Beach:

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Live From Bitcoin Beach

Knut Svanholm:

Giacomo had the perfect gift, yeah,

Giacomo Zucco:

I wrote the dictator room, which was a room. It was a Switzerland that I bought it with a friend, where there was I knew that I was going to meet bukele. So dictador is very funny. He got the joke. He said, Yeah, you see, I appreciate because democratically elected leader will not be a good name for a rum so. And the funny thing is that we's from memple, gifted to him a katana a few, a few minutes before. So when I gifted to him the ram the room, somebody, maybe, I don't remember, somebody said, but the President doesn't drink. And he said, Well, I don't fight with source very often either. So it's all fine. You Hey,

Knut Svanholm:

welcome to the Bitcoin beach infinity podcast, show thingy, show, I am Knut Schwan home and where this is my co host, or this is, maybe I'm the co host, come to think about it, this is Mike Peterson.

Mike Peterson:

I mean, you're the one hanging out with presidents these days, so I'm just the pleb over here in the corner,

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, but you're the local pleb, so don't, don't I mean, yeah,

Mike Peterson:

this, this is, that's the status cut show you and Giacomo, yes, both of you are, you know, lapping out of the President's status

Knut Svanholm:

cooks and yeah, pleb, SL, status, cock. Edition of this pod. We're here, not very live, but we are recording in El Zonte El Salvador, and we're, I'm very happy to be here, and so is Giacomo, because I say so, so

Giacomo Zucco:

among status friends, we just just agree with each other politically, yes.

Knut Svanholm:

And we're here to talk about all sorts of things, including what we've been up to this couple of this last week, actually.

Mike Peterson:

And we got Jethro here with the Bitcoin country podcast. And I know you guys got an event coming up still, so we're already gone through like, two events, and you guys got one next weekend.

Jethro Toro:

So thank you for introducing me, Mike. And yeah, welcome everyone this crazy crossover collaboration we've got, yeah, with knuts van Holm, Mike and I am now hosting the new Bitcoin country podcast for Max and Stacy in the Bitcoin office. So if it's in right with the theme you guys are talking about, jealous.

Giacomo Zucco:

I don't have a podcast, but I have a x Hangout. So I mean, okay,

Knut Svanholm:

welcome to the Bitcoin infinity beach country, Max and Stacy sort of thing, podcast sort of thingy.

Jethro Toro:

And it all ties together with, welcome to Bitcoin month. We're right in the heart of it. So we've been talking about this for past month and a half. Two months in so it was Bitcoin historico. We were all just at the National Palace for that, adopting Bitcoin, the OG Bitcoin grassroots conference, nice, laid back club, hang after the extraordinary historical event. We're going to dive into all of that. And then after this, big or Bitcoin beach actually has a festival that's going on right now. So I can here in El zonte, here in El zonte, so there's a festival going on outside. And then after this, Mike has some events in Punta Mongo for three days. Have you

Mike Peterson:

guys been to Punta mango yet? Not yet. You got to check it out. It is the most beautiful part of the country.

Jethro Toro:

Yeah, it's probably the most beautiful place I've ever been. And they just finished a new highway. And then after that, yes, I'm co organizing economy of Bitcoin, the conference in Bitcoin Berlin. And so we're going to get into all of that. But first we were going to talk about, I mean, you guys just had an extraordinary experience with the main events of Bitcoin month. So Bitcoin historico and adopting so we're starting.

Mike Peterson:

What's your experience here? You're the rock star.

Giacomo Zucco:

Bitcoin historical was a surprise. I think it was the first Bitcoin Conference where the venue was not a building, but it was a square, as basically the entire historical center of the of the city was the venue of the conference. There was a very, very light security to enter the specific buildings, and when you were roaming around, there was this big food court in the middle of the square, two giant screens streaming, but with the Spanish dubbing everything that was happening inside one venue was the beautiful National Theater with two tracks, and the other venue was the Presidential Palace, which is the same place where also we had the Cuba Plus Plan B School graduation last year, incredible, all with blue and orange. Orange and golden decorations. Very, very impressive. And then you could find the hardware store, the Bitcoin hardware store booth in the square, and everything else. It was basically, literally the town was the venue, which was very, very impressive.

Mike Peterson:

They served up 21,000 pupusas for free.

Giacomo Zucco:

Yeah, pupusas for free. And a lot of people were stopping to eat the free pupusa while watching a Spanish version of Jimmy song. Or it was impressive.

Knut Svanholm:

I think there was like 21,000 people in the line to get to the pupusas too.

Mike Peterson:

They're all branded with the Bitcoin B came

Giacomo Zucco:

for the free pupusa. Yeah. And lineup, lineup was great. And I think the content was very, very high senior. So impressed. And then, of course, adopting bitcoin is adopting Bitcoin, so a lot of education. The angle for kids, it was also that was less surprising, because it was a very good conference since the very beginning.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, for me adopting. I've never been to adopting before, and I was very happily surprised by that, and that it's so markety, like half of the conference festival, yeah, almost like a festival, like your food truck, maybe not trucks, but food stands and people selling all sorts of Bitcoin paraphernalia and coffee and art and stuff on a sort of street. There many,

Giacomo Zucco:

many kids. And your kids all over the place. They had a whole Kid Zone, key zone, beautiful,

Mike Peterson:

yeah, wife and I were laughing. It seems like there's a day went on like, more and more people had their shoes off. Like, everybody's walking around barefoot, yeah?

Giacomo Zucco:

Or even, like, bare chest, yeah, man, mostly

Knut Svanholm:

can't have it all

Jethro Toro:

the laid back vibe is a big part of what I love about adopting Bitcoin, just adding that grassroots, real roots. And especially in contrast with historico, was it's a venue fit for royalty. So then it was nice to come back and hang out with the plebs and chill out afterwards. And very

Giacomo Zucco:

complimentary, that's a good point. Very complementary.

Mike Peterson:

Historical was very much more like photo. I got in trouble for publishing photos that weren't up to par for there. So they were very like, everything was high production value, where adopting bitcoin is very much just like mellow,

Jethro Toro:

yeah, excellence only is the standard that Stacy always talks about for the Bitcoin office. And they really put on a show. I heard it described as royalty meets meets rock concert, which I loved. And I also love how you guys both kind of like those Satoshi rokka Moto you guys have that rock and roll.

Knut Svanholm:

It will fit both of those descriptions nowadays.

Mike Peterson:

Coiner, now, though I saw the picture of you in a suit,

Knut Svanholm:

hey, you either die a hero, you live long enough to become a suit coiner,

Giacomo Zucco:

t shirt underneath the jacket, at least,

Knut Svanholm:

yeah, you could rip my shirt open and become clap slot man again, like I just need a phone booth, but seem to be running.

Giacomo Zucco:

I only wear the jacket for my wedding and basically for the bukele thing, and maybe the my very last day, my fair job dressed up just as a as an insult to the corporate

Jethro Toro:

whenever Paco is ready for the picture, you guys did get to meet, speaking of royalty for philosopher king, the President at the National Palace here. So what was that? Whole experience like

Knut Svanholm:

that was surreal, a very formal event at the President's mansion. But once bukila arrived, it took a took a bit of time before he did, but once he did, he was super chill and very witty. And we had a great dinner and a great com great conversations during the dinner. So thank you, Mr. President, for inviting Stacey. Thank you. Thank you Stacey, absolutely, for even thinking of us.

Giacomo Zucco:

Yeah, Salvadorian taxpayers, yeah.

Knut Svanholm:

Thank you Salvadorian taxpayers. A lot of these

Giacomo Zucco:

kinds of jokes during the dinner because Stacy immediately introduced me as the anarchist who is now an honorary consul. So he mocked me like, Oh, you're an anarchist, like millet. And then during all the night he was basically poking at me and mocking me, for example, in this very moment, a few seconds before Jimmy Song said, Look how many photographer and bukele said, Where is the anarchist? Just turned to me. Here you are. See, I'm creating jobs. This is the public sector. And so it was like that all night.

Knut Svanholm:

And yeah, I pointed out that it was probably the entire public sector.

Giacomo Zucco:

His last words were, his last words to me were, man, I'm sorry. I'm running a government, but it's a very

Knut Svanholm:

small one. Giacomo had the perfect gift.

Giacomo Zucco:

Yeah, I wrote the dictator room, which was a room it was Switzerland that I bought it with a friend, where there was I knew that I was going to meet bukele. So dictador is very funny. He got the joke. He said, Yeah, you see, I appreciate because democratically elected leader will not be a good name for a rum so. And the funny thing is that we, from memple, gifted to him a katana a few, a few minutes before. So when I gifted to him the ram the room. Somebody, maybe I don't remember, somebody said, but the President doesn't drink. And he said, Well, I don't fight with source very often, either. So it's all fine. It's very quick witted. It's very, very fast jokes politicians in general are, but I have met a few and is incredibly fast. And I think that even in the serious discussion, he kind of gets it. He called the shit coins. Shit coins. He discussed about Bitcoin adoption as currency. He even the jokes about anarchism state. I think he kind of understand the tension between the Bitcoin spirit and what is doing a more traditional role. Of course, I am actually, I didn't have an occasion to talk with naive a lot, but I talked with his brother very, very long about ideological issues. And my perception is that libertarian culture, nerd. Libertarian culture is not really what these guys absorbed during their life here, but they they start to be fascinated about the whole idea of living control to the society. And I guess that the relationship with millet may also have played. He mentioned him explicitly, so maybe they also played a role.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, it's sort of like my impression is that the people of El Salvador almost accidentally got one of us elected into office with laser ice and all that comes with it. And yeah, I hope that that is true. I mean, we will see. We'll see what happens. So far, so good.

Mike Peterson:

Yeah, guys, the most about the meeting.

Giacomo Zucco:

Well, for me it was really the peer to peer to peer kind of joke. The setting, as Knut said, was formal, but the conversation became very, very fast, very informal. That was not what we were expecting.

Knut Svanholm:

No, I don't know. I don't think the thing that surprised me the most was that I was invited at all. Like, by far, that's the most surprising selection.

Giacomo Zucco:

Was curious, but I'm sure Stacey has their Machiavellian criteria, but it was

Mike Peterson:

next time she's got a bite timber in there. You gotta have, you gotta have a representative from Bitcoin beach.

Giacomo Zucco:

It's very heterogeneous group. Like, it's very It's very colorful, very it's diverse. It's the world you're looking for. I didn't want to go there, but it's very diverse. You have the cowboy hat, you have the purple jacket, you have you have the guy with a katana. It's very it's very interesting.

Jethro Toro:

Yeah, it's quite the range and quite an experience that they were able to set up as part of that. And also, I know I've several people who are there have been public now saying that President Bukit, I did mention circular economies, including Bitcoin, beach and Berlin, and said that he likes more of that. So in terms of to your earlier point about like, one of us being in there, he wants more, more like that.

Giacomo Zucco:

Yeah, the serious part of conversation, the conversation was about actually trying to help and boost and reproduce this kind of local experiments. So that also means that you understand that bottom up adoption now has to take the place of the initial top down experiment. So that's also very self aware, in a way,

Jethro Toro:

yeah, and I know you can't go into too many details about the serious part, but I would just like to say I

Giacomo Zucco:

will not overstate it. So it was mostly an informal chat. And then few points. There has been a few points about Bitcoin and Berlin and stuff. So nothing secret.

Knut Svanholm:

No, no. I don't think there was anything that was like confidential.

Giacomo Zucco:

Of the records. Yeah, we didn't sign an NDA, no, no. And if we did, we wouldn't tell you, right?

Jethro Toro:

I still think it's very cool that a president of an entire country is making a concerted effort to actually meet with industry leaders, top voices in the space, and this was all after the end of Bitcoin. Historic. Oh, this was yes. So you, both of you, spoke on the main stage there at the National Palace. So Canute, would you like to tell us about your talk?

Knut Svanholm:

First, that was surreal. That was by far the the coolest venue I've performed at ever in any capacity.

Mike Peterson:

Did you step on that center thing? People walk around it.

Giacomo Zucco:

I think I did internet. Nothing

Knut Svanholm:

happened, okay, I saw people do that from the pictures afterwards, but, but I never dared to step on that thing. I didn't dare to touch anything like a Bitcoin or what it was a screen, I think, right, yeah, yet another screen. LEDs, okay, yeah. But for. Really the plexiglass on top so, but this is from my talk. This is I gave a bit of my backstory. And this is from my very early sailing days with the beautiful Atlantica, I believe is in the name of the vessel there in the background.

Giacomo Zucco:

So the captains, Van Horn, yeah.

Knut Svanholm:

And this is a panel I had with Zuby and Max and Lina, a fun one. I had been informed before the panel that Max was supposed to moderate it, and we came up on stage, and there was this awkward silence and and then max says her is manerating Stacy's Oh, knuts moderating, and I'm like, who really I have to moderate, but, but it went well. It was easy, because it was the title of the panel was, you can just do things. So that was an easy conversation.

Mike Peterson:

You pretty much take that anywhere. Yeah, I had, I had an experience like that with Max and Stacy and Vegas last year, we're supposed to do something on like, is El Salvador still Bitcoin country? And then all of a sudden it got switched to Panama City Bitcoin adoption, and I got switched to the moderator. And I'm like, Yeah, but I faked my way through it.

Knut Svanholm:

But I love that. Like you can just throw Bitcoiners into situation, and

Giacomo Zucco:

that's an example of you can just do things. Yeah,

Knut Svanholm:

it's fitted perfectly into the subject of the of the conversation. So you can just do things. You can just moderate the panel about

Mike Peterson:

that's why I always tell them now I'm like, no keynotes, no I'll do panels or fireside chat, because you don't have to do any work before.

Jethro Toro:

And that panel actually was put together literally just a few days before the event. I just suggested I noticed that you, Lena and Zuby are all creative entrepreneurs. Like, yeah, just have them do a panel on creativity or something. And Stacy loves that phrase. You can just do things. And yeah, it was one of I heard from multiple people that it was one of their favorite talks at historico, and then Giacomo, you gave a talk as well.

Giacomo Zucco:

Strong man, good times. That's actually what Stacy's idea I recently, after a few years, having fun with a lot of controversial topics. I show up at conferences and I just ask, What do you want me to talk about? Because usually people organizing have some kind of view of the topics that may be important. So just ask, tell me, give me a topic. And she said, Okay, your topic is strong man good times. Coming back to the meme that good man creates strong men create good times, and good times create weak men, and weak men create bad times, and so on. I realized that when she told me, I realized I wrote an article about that for the Bitcoin times a few years ago. So I had a few opinions. And then the night before, I crafted this presentation, which was, I think, well received. I was a little bit usually, I'm not very emotional about getting on stage, but it was my birthday the day before, so they so isa got me on stage with the happy birthday song. So I was a little bit I started off a little bit, probably less chill, less cold than usual, but, yeah, it was well received. People said good things.

Jethro Toro:

Happy birthday. It's a nice place to have a birthday party. Yes,

Giacomo Zucco:

yes, yes. Actually, even the night before, I was traveling during the birthday and the Cooper, plus students, my students from Cooper, plus surprise me with a with a song. When I checked in the hotel, I didn't know about them being there, so it was very, I don't know why they. Was creepy. Non jockey. It was very, no, it was very it was very nice, beautiful.

Jethro Toro:

Yes, beautiful to hear. And I know we're actually going to talk about, you mentioned, how you come up with the conversations the day of, we're going to get into your talk at adopting as well. We have, yeah, we're just in the eye of the storm of Bitcoin month, and we've got a lot to unpack here. But before we move on to adopting, you guys, this was the dinner.

Giacomo Zucco:

So this was the dinner, golden plates, golden forks. Well, probably not real gold I guess I hope test it. I didn't do any verification, though, but the flowers were real. Even if they were so beautiful, they looked like fake. And some of the people there told me that everything that is very impressive, very institutional. Now I assumed it was traditional, like even if Salvador was an Easter centigrade, poor country, usually the Presidents still have the luxury and everything. But actually they told me that while the previous presidents were getting luxury for themselves in private context, the institutional the trash bags sometimes full of cash, exactly so very well, very fungible kind of luxury. The institutional side was actually very poor, very scrappy, very, very crappy, and that one of the first things that Canada did, in order to give credibility to the role, was actually to to. Make the presentability of the of the house, of the of the residency, impressive. And it was impressive, I had to say it was, yeah. I mean, you are the, you're the habitual, a bit way of presidential dinners. I'm not so

Knut Svanholm:

one before, but that was a sort of, not, not really a president, but semi president. I don't want to belittle him, but the President of Madeira, which is not a country of its in its own right. But it's funny because Jeff Booth was here as well, and Jeff was also at the dinner in Madeira. So now we've done two presidential dinners together, and this is just stuff that happens to Bitcoiners that I keep pinching myself over all of this.

Giacomo Zucco:

That's a red flag. So people, if you see, boot is there, because it's always around.

Knut Svanholm:

Oh, we had first. We had some, some starter with the cucumber, rolled around some tomatoey, garlicky thing, very, very nice. Yes. And then there was a mushroom soup served in a martini glass. And then lobster tail and filet steak, yes, with the also with some mushroom sauce, if I remember correctly, and some potatoes underneath. And then the dessert. Was that was interesting because it was quite hard to dessert some macaroni, or whatever they called

Giacomo Zucco:

the chocolate cover strawberry. Was a strawberry with a with a like, with a tuxedo.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, exactly. Chocolate tuxedo on that very elegant, also very hard, and we only got a fork. So I was expecting that scene from opening, scene from Naked Gun too. You know where the lobster flies into the hat. Fortunately enough, the they stayed on the plate. Yeah, no accident, no diplomatic accident, no, no. And as you can see, it's sort of a Wayne mansion kind of table. But we never had to do the past the ketchup please thing, because we all had personal waiters. So that was, that was also part of the luxury, luxuriousness of the thing.

Jethro Toro:

Very cool. And again, I just really want to emphasize how interesting it is and how much it distinguishes El Salvador as Bitcoin, country where you're not seeing too many other national leaders making a concerted effort to have dinners with industry leaders. You see a little bit of that with Trump and crypto and AI dinners, but like, this was the pure Bitcoin, and

Giacomo Zucco:

I think the difference that the shit corners had to pay to be a dinner with Trump, well, we were just invited,

Knut Svanholm:

yes, and we're plebs, like,

Giacomo Zucco:

and we didn't, we didn't go there to pledge, so we had nothing to sell. Like we were not lobbying the president for sure. I mean, I tried, I tried to sell anarchism a bit, but we were not selling him anything, not lobbying for something.

Knut Svanholm:

No, no, that's a that's an important point, I think. I mean, some, for instance, with and that bank guy was probably there because because of the collaborations that were happening. So there's a slightly different dynamic, but they had nothing to sell. This has already been done.

Giacomo Zucco:

Was a thanking for the opportunity, or something like that. So that's that's very relevant. Of course. That doesn't mean that he just did that because he enjoys to be with us, particularly at the personal level, there is a political reasons to hang out with Bitcoiners to basically consolidate the Alliance that is trying to build with the International Bitcoin movement. That's a smart move, that it is, from a political marketing point of view. So this also has, it's not because it just really, really liked us so much.

Mike Peterson:

Personally, it does amazing, guys. Is marketing tools to show it's still Bitcoin country.

Giacomo Zucco:

Well, it is. It's a good move to instead of, but it's not even a trivial move. Instead of just talking about Bitcoin, you actually do talk with the people moving forward, the education effort on the country, or moving the business there. So it's, I would say that it's a very honest kind of Political Marketing, yes,

Knut Svanholm:

as opposed to orange washing, which, which I wouldn't call it, because, I mean, he had not that much to gain from, from doing this thing. I think, yes.

Giacomo Zucco:

Also conversation, yeah, sorry, no, no, no. Sorry to interrupt you, we always have to remember that Bitcoin was always the least popular item of bukele's agendas ever. So is consistency on these is not to reap any short term political benefit. If you want to be very cynical, you can say that at least it's a very low time preference kind of marketing, very low time preference,

Mike Peterson:

no, that's what's always been remarkable to me, is it really has been the hardest sell, and most Salvadorans realities still don't get it. I mean, there are more and more through the efforts of, like, what you guys are doing, reaching young people, educating them, and, you know, developing the next generation of coders. But I. I think it shows just how real this is for him, that he's stuck with it. Most politicians would have been like, ah, that wasn't that popular.

Jethro Toro:

Let's move on. Yep, yep, yep. Well, then especially, Bitcoiners were the first wave of tourists to visit as soon as he made El Salvador safe. Giacomo, you said this was your seventh time back in El Salvador, and you've been shaping the Kubo plus curriculum since the beginning. So this is kind of like the dinner was reaffirming the work that you guys had built. I don't know if you want to talk about that now or a little later in the classroom.

Giacomo Zucco:

I can mention it now. So basically, Kubo plus was Stacey's idea. First she got the Jimmy song in the country. It was there the dinner. He was the first international educator to step foot in well, of course, there was a lot of big communicators coming spontaneously before, including including you, but it was the first developer called in the country in order to teach to developers. And then after that, we wanted to make this specific workshop. So that was just Jimmy's workshop. And then Stacy said, Let's do something more structured, more more ambitious, and full group venture provided the sponsorship for that, and I was called to create the program in one month. And the funny story is that it's in that context a few years ago, it's where I first met the cover Bitcoin team from France, because I needed very fast help, and then we merge it into the plumbinator later on. So in a way, Cuba plus was the origin story of plumbinator. Wow, I

Jethro Toro:

didn't even know that part, but yeah, so you've kind of seen the evolution over the years, and you've seen them double down on the commitment. And it's not just any government. It's working with Max and Stacy in the Bitcoin office. And yes, in terms of, like, lobbying to your con, your point about the contrast, this is just doubling down.

Giacomo Zucco:

It's doubling down. It's was. So the 2021 was very was in hyper moment. So bukele was also in the X in the Twitter space when a law was being passed, with somebody don't remember. So he was, it was very active on Bitcoin, so that that first marketing moment was very, very strong. Then to some degree, he had to pivot to other topics. But that's I will not. I will not. I condemn that as a lack of commitment, just because there was the war with the gangs, that was, of course, a different kind of priority for people living here for real. So I remember that the first year 2021 it was hype. Then the second year, it was mostly a bit of depression, because the price was down to the minimum of the cycle, and the Bitcoin seeded announcement, nothing had happened yet. And then the third year, it was a little bit of consolidation, a little bit of balance, and now I think we are back to some more reasonable hype, in a way we are following the price cycle.

Jethro Toro:

Interesting parallel, yeah. And do you think it's fair to say that historico is a celebration of all of the five years of the ups and downs the proof of work.

Giacomo Zucco:

I think so. I think so. The Bitcoin office celebrated the fact that they remained, they actually remained consistent during the hard times, and now that we have the good times, at least locally, and that's a celebration of of a narrative that com including the IMF storm. So after so last year, in plan, before um El Salvador, many people were discussing the IMF situation. So this is also a reaffirmation of the Bitcoin side of the story here, even across the IMF the IMF situation,

Knut Svanholm:

yeah, and I mean props to max and Stacy for sticking to their guns through through all of this years as well, and putting on this event as like sort of a culmination of what they've done here so far, I guess.

Jethro Toro:

Yeah, absolutely, I wholeheartedly agree. And props to Mike Peterson as well and the people who have been building on the ground here since even before the legal tender law. Yeah, Bitcoin Beach is what inspired it. Then, like Jack mallards coordinating with the President to write the legal tender law, like they specifically mentioned Bitcoin Beach and chimbara when they announced it. And so, Mike, do you feel like this was kind of a celebration of how far Bitcoin country has come?

Mike Peterson:

Yeah, I mean, to have it in the city center and in the palace where they're celebrating, you know, Bitcoin, you know, from the humble beginnings here in El zonte in 2019 you know. And so it's, yeah, it's, it's amazing how quickly that has kind of transformed the country during those, like, six years.

Knut Svanholm:

And did you guys have a CoCo Max yet? No, that didn't try yet. Yeah, I'm gonna try it. Like, right after this, I think we should go and have a CoCo Max when

Jethro Toro:

we get to the festival. So, yeah, let's, I guess, maybe spin through some of the slides here. Just briefly about me. I was on a panel the emerging BITCOIN ECONOMY at historico, at the National Theater stage. I was with Gerardo, who co founded the Berlin circular economy, apparently, President BU. Ellie mentioned by name at your dinner with them. Yep. And then Kiki, who organized adopting Bitcoin. So we're gonna get to that next. And it was moderated by Charlie Stevens, who we just did our last four person panel episode in this. And just shout out to chimbera and to your earlier point about, can you stand on it?

Mike Peterson:

Yeah. Great photo, by the way. I was funny, because I was watching all day, like people walking around and being careful

Giacomo Zucco:

not to step it was a test. If you're really into this, you can do things spirit,

Jethro Toro:

yeah, and we waited until, this is at the National Palace at the main stage. We waited until everybody's talks were done. You guys were probably off with President Buber Kelly by this point, but chimbara, I was doing series of five to 10 Minute mini interviews for the Bitcoin country podcast I'm launching for Max and Stacy and I saw timbera at the end. We saw that the the main stage at Bitcoin historico at the National Palace was available. I was like, I've got to get one with mi amigo timbera. And it was a really special interview. I can't wait to release that one. But yeah, just being the guy who was mentioned by name when they announced the legal tender law, just kind of at the National Palace there at this moment, Bitcoin historical reaffirming, you know, President bukele Max and Stacy and everybody here in Bitcoin country's commitment to just building Bitcoin country. That was a special one. So just wanted to briefly include that. But I know we are trying to get through this, and we've got,

Giacomo Zucco:

that's an amazing picture. Yeah, that's something Yeah, very beautiful

Jethro Toro:

esthetically, thank you. Yeah, well, works out perfectly with you. But also the picture, the setting of all of it, Renaissance, 2.0 and shout out to max and Stacy for making all of that possible. So Mike, actually this, this is a much less a slow

Mike Peterson:

I was just there for support. Now, Tamara, like nailed that one. He gave a presentation of all the different things that we're we're doing now, talking about the different summits that we're doing. We're doing one in Africa and Mauritius, and just couple weeks actually, and then we'll do one here, and right before the plan B conference here. So he was talking about that. And we're also doing a fellowship. We're bringing leaders from different circular economies, and having them spend a week or two here. And so we've got all these different things, most of them driven by him. He's always like, let's do this. I'm like, oh, man, I'm old. That's like, slow down. He's like, No, we got to do it. We got to do it.

Knut Svanholm:

He's like, your protege, right? Yeah, since he was a child. Yeah, no, yeah, since

Mike Peterson:

he was since he was young. Well, that's what was great about this talk, because I told him I don't like to do keynotes, and he signed me up for this. And I was like, No, you signed up for it. You're gonna do it. And he nailed it. He did a great job. So now I'm like, perfect. Now I don't have to do any more keynotes.

Jethro Toro:

And it was just to highlight what was on the slide real quick, Bitcoin beach launching 14 new circular economies. So it is an extraordinary project that you guys are working together on, and I look forward to seeing

Mike Peterson:

all throughout El Salvador. So yeah, we're having, we're making sure that there's one in each of the departments in El Salvador, and yeah, so that there's not any department without one. Yeah.

Jethro Toro:

And I love how you gave that talk at adopting Bitcoin, which is the OG Bitcoin grassroots conference. So you know the Bitcoin historico National Palace, that's the glamor, the royalty rock concert vibe, but adopting bitcoin is where the grassroots projects all get their chance. And as you mentioned, you liked hanging out with the plebs. What was kind of your experience with adopting Newt?

Knut Svanholm:

Oh, it was much more laid back. And I had done all my obligations the first day, so especially the second day, I could just mingle around and, you know, giggle and go into these deep conversations, as you do, and at the same time you're just joking around with people and enjoying that. There was a fantastic picanha. There grilled picanha you could get. And, no, it's overall very pleasant experience to be there. And, yeah, shout out to the organizers for amazing

Mike Peterson:

Kiki and her team did a great job. Yeah,

Unknown:

absolutely. And

Giacomo Zucco:

the venue is amazing. The new venue that they selected last year is amazing.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, Salamanca

Jethro Toro:

and so speaking of your experience now, Giacomo, this slide that was your talk at the main stage there as well.

Giacomo Zucco:

So as I said before, recently, I'm saying they're gonna asking the organizer just give me a title. I will roll it with it. And Kiki gave me a title, which was whatever Jackman wants to talk about. So it was very, I mean, for me, it was it a bit generic, and it was going to be hard. But then, a few hours before she came out with this beautiful title, what's the forking problem? And everybody appreciate, everybody gave me crazy like complimented me, but it's not me, it's Kiki. And the idea was, there is the forking controversy, both on the side of the software fork knots liberally, or in the side of the consensus rule forks. So this kind of data reduction, temporary fork drama, drama. So the idea was, can you, in 20 minutes, explain all the drama in a but in a neutral way, but also must be funny. Let's try and I. I did something. I think somebody was laughing, mostly because of my pronunciation of some words, but I think it was, I tried to be educational.

Jethro Toro:

It was sort of like a comedy stand up routine. Vibe. It I like you came out into the crowd. It was like watching stand up comedy. It's so cool that you could just improvise every single I've seen you speak at a few different conferences. Now, I already said this. I'll go on the record. Basically every single conference I've seen seen Giacomo speak at is always one of the best talks, first at adopting 2023 then adopting last year, and then BTC and DC, if you like, about two months ago, and like every single time. So yeah, thank you for that. You also had a great debate with a social like a libertarian socialist at the speakeasy room.

Giacomo Zucco:

Libertarian socialist, Yes, Ben, Ben, but actually it was a great speech. We cannot, yeah, we cannot enter details, because it was a speakeasy, so it was a private and meant to be private, but we actually arrived to a very deep political conversation. I'm super happy about the about the depth, also, it was a very relaxed conversation, because basically not time limit, no recording, so we could, so we went from feudalism to Bakunin. It was amazing.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, oh, he's, he's, he's, great. I mean, I still think libertarian socialism is a very oxymoronic words. But, but, but, Ben is very It's not like he pulled it out of his behind. He he's actually thought it through.

Giacomo Zucco:

He still meant it very well, and in a way, that was productive for everybody that was listening, my opinion, including me.

Jethro Toro:

I was impressed by your patience. I tend to lean more Newt's direction about the oxymoron of libertarian socialism. But that's the nice thing about the speakeasy stage too, is we also did a fireside chat there, and it was, it's cool having like off the record, just free flowing conversations where you can explore ideas.

Giacomo Zucco:

Yeah, you know, with the right intellectual honesty, you can literally start from any kind of crazy claim and instruct some true out of that, from any crazy claim. If you try to make it consistent with itself and go deeper, you will find truth by definition of truth, basically. So even if it's if it's even if it's probably a little bit oxymoronic, we still find a way to make it make sense.

Knut Svanholm:

So if I may test your thesis, the statement to try, try this theory out on is, if God want, would have wanted us to walk around naked, we would have been born that way. Can you debunk that or get I

Giacomo Zucco:

don't know if we can do it now, but I'm sure that with enough time and off the records, I can try to we'll postpone this discussion. I always managed to defend Flat Earthers, so that was very challenging, but I think I got, I did well,

Knut Svanholm:

I'm very pro building more flats on Earth.

Jethro Toro:

Yeah, I know we're trying to get through a lot this podcast, I guess. So this was a picture of plan before, and we're going to talk about that at the end a little bit. And yeah, but that was adopting Bitcoin. So it was the grassroots complement to the royalty rock concert vibe of historico. And it's got, you know, Cypherpunk elements like that. It's got a good plug, bang. It's fun seeing you at the after party last night with the Rock and Roll culture, and I love that you're doing an acoustic set afterwards, back to the rock and like

Mike Peterson:

after party we did for a while, you guys have more energy than I did.

Knut Svanholm:

I was there only to fight the jet lag, like stay awake as long as possible.

Jethro Toro:

I've always loved that the adopting Bitcoin, like they always have a rock band. And I know here that the Bitcoin Beach Festival that we need to get to after this, there's a rock band that's actually on probably right now, whenever we wrap, Knut is gonna get to do an acoustic set there. But I just wanted to mention, with the Satoshi rakamoto, you're wearing your Satoshi rokka Moto shirt as well.

Knut Svanholm:

So yeah, there were quite a few, were quite a few Satoshi rakamoto shirts yesterday becoming a thing that's yes, and you look at them and so, oh, that's cool. And you realize after a while that, oh, that's, that's sort of my bands t shirt we can

Giacomo Zucco:

I don't know if you're familiar with the backstory that's that's mostly created for basically ugly old goat and Maz from light adventure ugly. Algo is a trader, friends of Tom vase, and he organized this conference in Mexico, but he did during the the coronazi crisis. So basically it was 20 speakers and three attendees. So it was beautiful for us, very expensive for him, but he did the final party with with a group of musicians, but they just got tired and went away, leaving the instruments there. So we realized that many Bitcoiners actually could play and sing. My wife started to sing, Knuth started to do things, and there was like Lex mechanic doing basically bass, bass and keyboard together.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, it was also. What's he called? Pastor coin, yeah. Basically, yeah. Sound play, drums, yeah. Drums, fantastic, fantastic.

Giacomo Zucco:

And Maz, the leader of lighting ventures. He used to be a band manager, so he said, this is a thing. This is Satoshi rokamoto Bitcoiners playing rock music by bandioki in conferences. And so he tried to make it a thing after a while, I think, in Miami, and then in Prague, then in Riga, then so it just became a thing every, every time we are around. And actually there was also a spin off band with its own dignity, which is,

Knut Svanholm:

never mind, yeah, yes, the band with, I mean, with Luke the wolf and Samson Mo and Marty malmi. That's the current line.

Giacomo Zucco:

In case anybody doesn't know, Marty Malm is the legendary Bitcoin developer that basically helped Satoshi Nakamoto and Gavin Andresen a bunch of others in 2009 2010 then he disappeared for a while, then he reappeared as a noster developer with Iris, and we and people realize that he's also able to play and dress up like a real rock star. So we have that on stage is amazing.

Knut Svanholm:

No and Marty is based in in Finland. So so him and Luke actually have a rehearsal room so they can rehearse, not very often, but every now and then. And when we threw the BTC hel conference in Helsinki earlier this year, we actually had the time to rehearse. I don't remember if it was once or twice, but at least sometime before the gig, which never happened before. And we had Helsinki is also the metal capital of the world, right? Every single teenager has been in a metal band. It's that and the Moomins. But anyway, so we had a handful of real metal musicians helping us out with the stuff. And so we had a really good gig there after their the latest one was, of course, in Lugano, which was Lugano was so much bigger this year. It's like 4000 people, or something like 2000 of them. Was in that telt when we played tent, when we played so this is a big thing now, and Lugano

Giacomo Zucco:

is incredible because we have the major of the city basically dancing in the pit with us. It's incredible.

Knut Svanholm:

No, and he introduced us and stuff and gave me a hug the day after. So yes, he's our biggest fan, I guess.

Giacomo Zucco:

And Knut is an animal where they call him Knut Cobain, and He's unstoppable. Like at the last plan before here in in Salvador, there was a problem with timing, like we went a little bit long with the Satoshi rakamoto, so they guys started to turn down the electricity so it was dark without the mic. But people didn't want Knut to stop. So basically, Knut basically led the revolution. It went on with all the people basically clapping and in the dark without the mic. It wasn't, no,

Knut Svanholm:

it was like an open goal. Like, I like what I could see Samsung being very disappointed that he didn't get to play. And so were we, of course, so and I saw the audience, and I just had to like, oh, the mic isn't working well. Are you anarchists or not? Because everyone knows how to play, knows how to sing, Smells Like Teen Spirit. So that was, yeah, what we did, and that was very good, because then they couldn't detect how fucking lousy we were as musicians.

Giacomo Zucco:

So last year, Lugano, you even stage died. That's, oh, yeah.

Knut Svanholm:

What's was that last year, last year, fortunately, yes, yeah, reluctantly, but still they did. It's, it's not the same as when you're in your teens days.

Mike Peterson:

That was one of the I love stage, yeah?

Jethro Toro:

But it really ties in this. It's just such a great metaphor the spirit of rock and roll, like they're trying to turn off the lights, and you're like, no rock and roll never die. And it's the same way with Bitcoin, yeah, and Bitcoin and El Salvador, to your earlier point about the sentiment kind of tracks the ups and the downs.

Knut Svanholm:

It's the opposite. I think Bitcoiners in general need a bit of super high time preference every once in a while, because this is the opposite of a low time preference, just a crazy rock gig where you just go wild,

Giacomo Zucco:

Yin Yang, some balance between, like

Knut Svanholm:

you said one of the Bitcoin pizza days a couple of years back, you said, Yes, pizza is carbs are poison, but real men eat poison every once in a while. So, like, sort of the same thing. We need this touch of high preference every now and then.

Jethro Toro:

Yeah, well, I know we do have a festival to get back to, so maybe Let's wind it out. We kind of just skipped like, the in depth backgrounds on your works and stuff. So maybe we, like you, talk about some of your books. You can talk about some of the educational work plan B does, like you can talk about Bitcoin, beach, the projects. Talk about anything.

Mike Peterson:

Well, let's, let's focus on them. We hear from me plenty. So well.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, I've written five books so far, and four of them about Bitcoin and one about praxeology, and that's one that I collaborate with Giacomo a bit on, and do lectures. I've done lectures for the late last two years on that, and we're doing a bit of a course. It's sort of written to be this sort of course material thing. So we'll see what comes out of that. There's, there are plans anyway, and the all my books are being read chapter by chapter on a weekly show called The Bitcoin infinity Academy, which is the parallel show to this one, if you're watching the Bitcoin infinity show and or not, the coin beach podcast

Giacomo Zucco:

or the Mexican

Knut Svanholm:

Max and Stacy whatever, but Bitcoin, infinity beach podcast, country, yes, country. And now, now I lost my train of thought, like I have nothing left to say.

Jethro Toro:

Well, you're releasing your books one chapter at a time.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, the Bitcoin infinity Academy and the Bitcoin infinity show. Those are two rock

Unknown:

stars. After the performance, rock stars are still

Mike Peterson:

whoop there. How was your recovery last night?

Knut Svanholm:

Oh, I, whenever I'm doing conferencing, especially with a jet lag. I try to look as little as possible at the never open the app. Basically. That's that's the trick.

Jethro Toro:

Well, I love that you have. You managed to fit in one last acoustic set right around sunset time here in El zonte. It's just like a beautiful way to round out the Bitcoin week experience.

Knut Svanholm:

Yeah, it's got to be fun to play a little bit of guitar. I guess. Cool.

Jethro Toro:

Yeah. And then would you like to talk about Plan B some Yes.

Giacomo Zucco:

For me, couple of years ago, I made this deal with the promoters of the plan B initiative, which are football ventures and theater, and the deal was 50% of my time, and then it became 170 so now I'm it's basically, it's basically the only thing I'm doing, and I'm trying to really focus into that. It's branching into several things. It was always conceived in order to be several things, but we focus first on education. So of course, we launched we also launched it and still sponsor node nation, which is another great educational program in the country. Shout out to puza G like incredible, incredible person with an incredible skill of attracting young talents and educating them while having fun. So no nation is going great, and we still support that, and we do the international plan B educational programs, the tech what we call the tech school, the B School, the summer school, the winter school. So a lot of educational programs, and there is a lot of free educational material on the website. So if you go on plan B dot network, now you can go to plan B dot Academy, where there is all the educational part, a lot of free stuff in different languages for any kind of educational need. We cooperate with universities like George Washington universities, MIT Turin, Polytechnic of Turin ntut in Taipei, and Uzi and subsea universities in Lugano. So a lot of a lot of stuff. But that was the first chapter, chapter of plan B. The second one was we discussed that with with, actually, with Mike here, what physical nodes, physical places in order to hang out physically with other people. This is something that I had to slow down a bit while we fixed the educational part, because that's very challenging, but that's that's advancing. So now I made, I was mentioning before the cover Bitcoin team, I made the Roxy, the French guy that started the cover Bitcoin as the director of the academy part and is moving on with education. I will still teach, because I love to teach, but I'm not macro managing anymore. Then i i basically rejoin my wife mir. She was with me building the community in Milan from 2013 to 2018 we created a great Bitcoin Center in Milan that was actually the birthplace of the bold protocol for the Latin network, the open test time standard, the RGB standard, the scaling Bitcoin Conference. So a lot of cool stuff happened there. So I asked them to please go out of retirement to help me. And she's now the director of the plan B hubs. She will focus now on Lugano, Tokyo, Torin and London, mostly, and eventually San Salvador, when, whenever there is the building that we are expecting here, in the meantime, she will also visit all the like local communities. But we are also focusing especially on this kind of real building, with co working, co living, startup incubator and startup accelerator. And the third branch of plan B activities will be about venture with full group ventures, especially, but also tether, they want to do investments in Bitcoin companies. We did a very good thing that will be released, hopefully in December or January, which is basically a shark tank for Bitcoin. Is. Already recorded was amazing. With the best VC guys in the space and the very, very good startups, the quality of the recording is amazing. So I'm looking forward for it to eat your screens. And the idea is that we will also create, hopefully, a nice activity in the plan B VC fund. So I basically promoted myself president, just to compete with bukele and to stay I tried to be less and less micromanaging and try to delegate to people with me these activities. It's hard, a lot of moving parts, but I'm happy.

Knut Svanholm:

I don't understand how you keep that many balls in the air at the same why? But it's amazing. And the the hub in Lugano is just beautiful. And it's, it's all, all you do is just like, yeah, hats off.

Giacomo Zucco:

Thanks, man, actually, well, I don't understand why I do it, but actually, yes, because with with my wife, we really realized that even if we were happy about our life with our kids, a little bit retired since 2018 but we were missing having this big house where all the Bitcoiners come, having this like giant global family of Bitcoiners to take Care for. It's something we did miss, so we are happy to have recreated that in Lugano.

Jethro Toro:

Love to hear it. You were just in Lugano too?

Mike Peterson:

Yeah, yeah, no, but that reminds me of something I need to show while I'm here, bringing as far as bringing Bitcoiners together. We We launched a boutique hotel in in Punta Mongo. You can see it at stay at Bitcoin beach.com, so we're doing that, and then we're gonna do something else here in El zonte. So the idea is to have place where Bitcoiners, of course, can pay in Bitcoin, but also it's like kind of Bitcoin themed, and you're gonna be around other Bitcoiners probably. And so yeah, that's the idea to have different places in the country where you have that kind of real hub. So definitely, if you're coming to El Salvador, check that out, especially when I'm putting the Mongo,

Jethro Toro:

because it's the most beautiful part of the country, and that's where you're organizing the events. And just, yeah,

Mike Peterson:

we're doing events. We're doing a pickleball tournament down there. We built a pickleball court there that has a big Bitcoin B in the middle of it. And then we have the citadel of hope that actually BitFenix and tether help sponsor down there. So we have, like, a learning center, football field or soccer, depending where you're at, and then the pickleball court. So it's, it's an amazing part of the country.

Jethro Toro:

Yeah, I've visited once and saw the citadel of hope, and I it's might be one of the most beautiful places on earth that I've ever been, personally. And so I know best of luck with the event there November 18 through 20th, and then after that, if we're doing quick shows. Anyway, I'm the co organizer of economy at Bitcoin in Bitcoin Berlin. Mike is one of the speakers. We're having a strong Circular Economy presence that's this upcoming Saturday and Sunday. Months of effort going into it. We're doing round two.

Knut Svanholm:

Now. I'm having serious FOMO for that one. I return

Giacomo Zucco:

tickets, yeah, if you do

Jethro Toro:

miss your flight, you'd be more than welcome. Of course. You can just do things.

Knut Svanholm:

You can also just not say this on air.

Giacomo Zucco:

Yeah, you just remove his plausible diabetes. I have

Knut Svanholm:

no alibi anymore. Sorry, guys. And

Jethro Toro:

speaking of things you shouldn't say on air, we haven't confirmed this yet, but assuming that round two of economy of Bitcoin and Berlin goes, well, we'll probably do something around Plan B form at the end of January. So we're, we're in the middle of Bitcoin month right now, it's two weeks. You really need at least one full week to soak up the full experience. Here see the different Bitcoin month. Come on, you really need a month. Yeah. And so we're going to be doing just like we're in the middle of all these events right now. We're going to probably orchestrate something similar in January. I know Max and Stacy also have their golf Invitational January, 8 through 10th. So that's going to be a big party to kick off Bitcoin month round two Bitcoin season. But there's most likely going to be something in Berlin around the plan B.

Giacomo Zucco:

Let's try to be there. I will do my best after seven times in the country, including living here for two months in a row, I never visited Berlin, mostly because of logistics issues with the kids, but I want to do it.

Jethro Toro:

Appreciate that plan B had some great presence in Berlin for round one of economy

Mike Peterson:

of Bitcoin. Are you the ambassador the Yeah, that's a

Giacomo Zucco:

funny story. So actually, some other person from Salvador was going to be appointed, but it turned out that you need a permanent Swiss resident, and it was not trivial for Salvadorian to become permanent Swiss resident. So the Salvador doesn't have a diplomatic body in Switzerland. It's expensive. They just have this very talented lady who is ambassador for United Nations, Yesenia. She's also playing as the ambassador for Switzerland, but no consuls, no. No structure. So the major of Lugano and Stacy, they said, Let's just do one to show the proximity between Columbia City, the Bitcoin city, and the Bitcoin country. And they tried with the Salvadorian person, but then they couldn't. So they say, Who is the only permanent Swiss residence resident with any contact and connection with the country, so calls the coin. So I asked, Do you pay me? No, do I have immunity from the police? No, but the cops don't know it. I mean,

Knut Svanholm:

it's beautiful, beautiful. And, yeah, I can't wait to return in January. We'll see how long I stay that time, hopefully as long as possible, and hopefully I can bring my family. I can't wait to show them. El Salvador. I love it here.

Jethro Toro:

Totally safe for families. It's worth staying at least one week, really a month to so you'll be a full experience with all the different parts of Bitcoin country. So yeah, glad to hear you're coming back so many times. Hope to see you here many more times. And Mike, would you like to close us out?

Mike Peterson:

Hey, I think that's a wrap. Not to say we had to get out there to the all the activities that are happening in town.

Jethro Toro:

Okay, just begin the plan before him. Do you know the dates yet for the Bitcoin Beach, circular economy Summit? Right before that?

Mike Peterson:

I think it's the 26th through the 29th is the plan B, the 30th and 31st should be 30/31.

Giacomo Zucco:

Should be the very end of the month. Let me double check to be sure.

Mike Peterson:

But think it's the whatever that Monday is. We'll start. I think it's the 26th Okay,

Jethro Toro:

so to people listening. We'll get all the details sorted at some point after the case, the craziness of this past week dies down. But yeah, so come couple, at least a few days early before Plan B forum, and then stay a few days 3030,

Giacomo Zucco:

31 of January confirmed.

Knut Svanholm:

I'm gonna say we're gonna put it all in the show notes and give someone, someone I who I don't know who it is work, love the Paco over there. Yes, don't forget to like, subscribe and brush your teeth in El Salvador.

Mike Peterson:

All right, that's a wrap.

Knut Svanholm:

This has been the Bitcoin infinity beach Show podcast, country thingy. Thanks for listening. You.