How El Salvador Forced This Crypto Billionaire to Use Bitcoin (Proof The Circular Economy Works)

Can a rural village in El Salvador actually replace the central bank?

Host Jethro Toro hangs out with Mike Peterson and the founders of Bitcoin Berlin, Evelyn Lemus and Gerardo Linares. They talk about a grassroots movement that is changing how people use money. We explore the true story of El Zonte, where a project focused on community development built a true circular economy. They used the Lightning Network to make fast digital payments just to survive the pandemic proving the experts wrong years before big banks caught on.

Evelyn and Gerardo explain exactly how they got a whole town excited about Bitcoin without asking the government for permission. We follow their journey from the coast to the mountains of Berlin. They are teaching high school students about decentralized finance so they can run their own independent systems instead of trusting apps to hold their money. They also highlight how El Salvador tourism is booming as Bitcoin fans visit to support local shop owners who are saving in Bitcoin.

We also look at how they are fighting back against expensive money transfer companies. You will learn how a new project in La Laguna uses a local hardware store to help families send money home without paying Western Union's high fees. The team explains why they stopped using the government's Chivo wallet to use better open tools. They even share a new guide for anyone who wants to start a Bitcoin community in their own neighborhood.

Subscribe to the channel to see the proof that this works, and leave a comment if you are ready to try a new way of using money.

-Bitcoin Beach Team

Connect with Gerardo Linares and Evelyn Lemus:
https://x.com/GR_Linares1
https://x.com/Evelynlemus2906
https://www.youtube.com/@BitcoinBerlinSV 

Connect and Learn more about Jethro Toro:
https://x.com/JethroToro
https://rumble.com/user/BitcoinCountry 

Support and follow Bitcoin Beach:
X: https://www.twitter.com/BitcoinBeach
IG: https://www.instagram.com/bitcoinbeach_sv
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@livefrombitcoinbeach
Web: https://www.bitcoinbeach.com 

Browse through this quick guide to learn more about the episode:
02:13 - The History of Bitcoin Beach 
15:04 - Why El Zonte Switched to Lightning
20:46 - How to Build a Bitcoin Circular Economy 
32:00 - Living on a Bitcoin Standard in El Salvador 
39:41 - Teaching Students to Run Nodes 
47:51 - Replicating the Model in La Laguna 
57:44 - Solving the Remittance Problem 
1:09:58 - Building Bitcoin Network Effects Locally
1:22:45 - Bitcoin Merchant Onboarding Guide PDF

Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

Evelyn Lemus: 0:00

Focusing on educating the next generation. It's key for the project and for the country to change. Basically, because you're educating the next generation, the next people that it's going to be leading the country, next business owners, and they will already know about Bitcoin, all these kids, I mean, the mind that they had in the beginning has changed, and they want to continue teaching now they are asking, how can we get involved? How can I teach? I want to teach the next year. Love that.

Jethro Toro: 1:00

Welcome everyone to the Bitcoin country podcast. I'm your host, Jethro Toro, and this is a crossover with your familiar host here in the Bitcoin beach studio. Mike Peterson,

Mike Peterson: 1:09

yeah, we're making Jethro take over tonight, because we're filming at night. It's almost my bedtime, so I told him he's got to take the lead here. Well, thank you

Evelyn Lemus: 1:19

for staying up and making the time for this mic, as always, such an honor recording with you and all the work you've done with Bitcoin beach. And we are also honored to be joined by the two Salvadoran co founders of Bitcoin Berlin. So we got Gerardo here.

Gerardo Linares: 1:31

Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Jethro Toro: 1:33

Great to have you here.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:34

And Evelyn, hi, thank you very much for having me. So it is one thing to start a circular economy project. Many people have tried, and a lot of actually failed, but, and it's quite another to actually keep it going, too. So the Bitcoin barely in Project was started two and a half, almost three years ago, actually turning three this April, May. And so a lot has happened since the last time you know, you guys were on the Bitcoin beach podcast in the early days, telling the early version of the story, but I figured it was time for an update. So first we're going to get into the story of Bitcoin Beach, though, because that is where, you know, the big bang of circular economies, as they call it, all started. So Mike, could you tell us the history of Bitcoin beach?

Mike Peterson: 2:13

Yeah, the history of Bitcoin beach really just started from wanting to help the community here in El zonte, specifically the young people actually not just El zonte, also punto Mongo. We kind of started the project in both those locations at the same time, and at that time in El Salvador's history, gangs pretty much controlled the majority of the country, including here in El zonte. And so the goal was to give the young people a better path forward, to give them some hope, to to encourage them to, you know, follow through on on their education, to go to high school, to go on to university, to start pouring into their community. And so we were working in the community here Jorge Valenzuela, who was like very big part of getting this all going early days, and with the foundation of Hope House and all that. And then also chimbera, Roman, there's a lot of people. Most people know him by chimbera, but it was his real name is Roman. And they, you know, grew up here in El zonte. They, you know, had seen lost numerous friends to the gangs, you know, from either joining the gangs or being killed by the gangs. And so the goal was to provide hope for the kids to actually, we talked about getting them to dream for the first time that, because when you would ask a kid, like, what is your dreams, they would just look at you with this like deer in the headlights like they've never dreamed of anything. They were just always in survival mode. And so we started with educational initiatives. We were working with the local church, having youth groups with the young people, and starting to give them, you know, jobs in the community. And in 2019 we had a donor come to us and say, Hey, we want to support what you guys are doing there in El zonte, but we want you to do it all in Bitcoin. We believe that actually using Bitcoin as money will help transform the community, that to create a circular economy, to get people off the Fiat standard. That a big part of what we were seeing in El zonte was the result of the Fiat world. We were seeing the people here not being able to support their families, so they would go to the United States, oftentimes illegally, leave their kids behind to be watched by aunts or uncles that the kids weren't really cared for a lot of times, because the you know, that the people they were left with were just in survival mode themselves. And so when the gangs came around, it was really attractive to the young people to join the gangs, because it gave them this sense of belonging that allowed them to make some income. And so then with the gangs. Gangs, there you would see more businesses go under because the gangs were extorting them. So you had this really cycle of violence, and it would just kind of feed on itself. And so we thought, hey, if we introduce Bitcoin to this, we break this kind of Fiat mentality, we can actually see this cycle reversed. And so the idea was to start paying the kids and young people in small amounts of Bitcoin to clean the local river and the beach. We started doing stipends if they stayed in school and got decent grades. And as part of that, then we onboarded the local businesses so that they could the young people would have place to be able to be able to actually spend their Bitcoin, and the businesses were attracted to it, because all of a sudden there was all this Bitcoin circulating, and, you know, they realized they got more customers of their accepting bitcoin. And then when covid hit, it really supercharged things, because nobody could work in the community. It was, it was prohibited from working. And, you know, in El Salvador, in El zonte, like a lot of places in El Salvador, you know, people don't have that much food stored up. Most of them buy their food daily, a lot of times. And so it wasn't like, you know, they had these, you know, stocked kitchens and pantries that they could, you know, go for months. And so quickly people were starting to go hungry. And so we saw this as an opportunity to really show the people the value of Bitcoin, and we started doing distributions of Bitcoin to the majority of the families in the community. It was probably, I'd say, probably 90% of the families participated, where we were giving, you know, a chunk of SATs to them every every couple weeks, and it really allowed them to buy the bare minimum that they needed. It also allowed the local businesses to stay open, because in a lot of the communities, the business shut down because nobody had any money. And so it allowed food to continue to flow and commerce to continue to flow, even during that time. But it also because people had all this downtime, they weren't working. They didn't have anything to do. So they were able to actually learn about Bitcoin and kind of start to understand it. And you know, it was also made it easy during covid, there was restrictions on movement, so to have electronic payments for the first time made it made a huge difference to them. And so that was kind of where it all got its start. And then from there, we saw the interest just expand, you know, all throughout El Salvador and and now, really throughout the world. We were working with about 100 different circular Bitcoin economies throughout the world. Now we were just in Africa. We'll get in that more later, but we were just in Africa with a number of the projects there. And so it's exciting to see, and it's really amazing to see this came out this little town of 3000 people, you know as ante a place that you know six years ago, hardly anybody outside the surfing world had ever even heard of before. And to see how what happened in this little village has has kind of set this ripple effect across the world, and, you know, threatening governments now, and has the IMF all up in arms. And you know, has caused all this consternation by the, you know, the global elite. And but we know that Bitcoin really levels the playing field for everybody. And you know, gives the people who have been locked out of the current system, you know, equal opportunity. And we think it's really going to continue to revolutionize the world.

Evelyn Lemus: 8:30

Yep, the little projects that upended the world's monetary order, as they say, and it is so beautiful how it started with this project of uplifting the community, helping people who were in a situation where that's pretty bleak, just giving them something to do, something productive, and then just uplifting an entire town and really inspiring the entire world. It's interesting, you highlighted how the covid times, or when it really hit the next level. That's when a lot of Bitcoiners, including myself, Michael Saylor, many others, class of 2020, as they say, because that's also when they printed trillions of dollars. So the need became apparent for the store of value to many, but we were also seeing how medium of exchange adoption could actually really help people in a time when they needed it. So that's so beautiful to hear, and it's inspiring how it has inspired so many other circular economies around the world, including Bitcoin, barely in to Salvador unios So and actually also, before we even get into the full story of Berlin, it also inspired the Bitcoin legal tender law in 2021 making El Salvador becoming the first country in the world to make Bitcoin legal tender. So I'd like to start the story there. Gerardo and Evelyn. Where were you guys in 2019 when they started the Bitcoin beach project in 2021 like when did you first hear about all of this Bitcoin activity in the country?

Gerardo Linares: 9:45

So back in 2019 Evelyn and I, we hadn't met yet. So we met back in 2020 and I met Evelyn and and she liked Bitcoin more than I do I did back then. So. So that's what we're doing, you know, and we're living together. That's how we met. Actually, in covid, we were roommates, and, yeah, that's, that's what we were doing back in 2019 2020, Emily, I don't know if you want to say a little, you know, tell a little bit more. Yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 10:17

I mean, I think that I hear about Bitcoin on 2019 but I didn't really pay attention until 2021 actually, I knew a few stuff, but then when I knew it was something big, it was on 2021 and then we basically

Mike Peterson: 10:38

announced the law, or before that, or what was that made it you realize that

Evelyn Lemus: 10:44

it was I was when they I mean, I remember that I heard about Bitcoin Beach, because I remember all the news, and to me was like, what's going on? What why? You know, it was really curious. And now that I'm listening to you, it's like, if somebody will have explained Bitcoin back then, or the project even, and maybe I will have thought they are crazy.

Gerardo Linares: 11:10

I know it's it's a big merit, you know, like they started Bitcoin beach in 2019 I mean, now there's a lot of circular economies because, you know, there's more spreading. It's easier. It's easier. It's getting easier. Now, Bitcoin is cooler in 2019 that it was back in 2019 2025 now that it was in 2019 so that's what we saw, and that's what we what we learned from Bitcoin beach. You know, all these things that might was just saying about people don't buying, you know, living day to day survival mode, no saving or storing their their food, that it was really easy to join to a gang and all of these things and a lot of those insights, are the kind of insights that we saw when we read the Bitcoin beach white paper. And it's like, you know, what's interesting or what was interesting to me, at least, it's just my, I don't know how long you've been living here in El Salvador, but you kind of, you know, grasp the

Mike Peterson: 12:07

Yeah, we bought our house here in 2005

Gerardo Linares: 12:10

I believe that is why you get, like, the whole cultural thing here in El Salvador.

Evelyn Lemus: 12:15

Yeah, I remember Gerardo and I being in front of the computer because we were just starting the project in Berlin, and we were like, trying to figure it out and making, like an executive plan for the project. And then we started that the bubbles, and we were like, oh my god, Mike, it's like, if he thinks like a Salvadorian, he see, yeah, it was, it was really cool to to see that you understood. And then you were saying that Roman was also involved in this. And, yeah, so that that combines really well. Yeah, absolutely. And so then you guys were, of course, inspired by what had happened here. And you, you mentioned the circular economy white paper that you wrote, actually, before we even get into the how you launched Berlin. Could you talk a little bit about what you were thinking when you and Roman decided to write the Bitcoin Circular Economy white paper?

Mike Peterson: 13:06

Well, really, it was, it was Romans idea. He came to me and said, Hey, we need to put out a Bitcoin beach white paper, because we had all these different projects coming to us and wanting help, wanting actually, initially, a lot of times that they're like, Hey, can you come and start this in Brazil, can you come and start this? You know, in South Africa, and we're like, no, like, we're focused on El Salvador. We're a small team, but you get you can start it. You're there. You have the community's trust already. You are in much better position to start something than us. If we come, we're coming as outsiders. And so we were working with a number of different projects, helping them think through how to start. And so everyone's like, hey, we need to actually put this on paper and give people, you know, kind of a roadmap, so that they know that this is not something that's super complicated even it's something that it's definitely a lot of hard work and takes a lot of commitment is, I'm sure you guys can attest to, but it's not rocket science, like it's not something that you have to be some tech wizard to be able to do, because I'm like, the worst when it comes to tech. So I think that that was kind of Vermont kind of saw that, and at the time, I thought, yeah, that'd be great, but I didn't realize the impact that would have. So I'm glad that he pushed to do that, and we had a lot of people that helped actually write that and put it together. And so that was kind of how that all came together. It's a

Gerardo Linares: 14:34

really good document, like when you get together with people you know, from different circular economies, you always have that reference. Have you read that bubbles document? Have you read about that in the white paper? So yeah, a lot of circular economies, I'm sure that have read that document, got inspired by it.

Evelyn Lemus: 14:49

Yeah, I'm sure. And Bitcoin beach being the first really successful Circular Economy project, you guys kind of had to be the first through the gate and establish a lot of things that people had never done. So also the Bitcoin beach. Wallet blank and lightning was still fairly new. When you guys first started

Mike Peterson: 15:04

the project, we were doing everything on chain and and so it was. It was kind of how everything came together. We the fees spiked really high, and was so we were having problems. You know, the stores were upset because they're like, What is this? You You know, you got us into this, and now for us to send, you know, a small amount was sometimes costing, you know, as much as the transaction itself and fees. And so I kind of, out of desperation, we moved to lightning. And it was, it was funny. If I would have listened to all the experts in the Bitcoin space, we never would have done it, because they're all like, no, lightning is not it's, it's two years out, or it's never gonna work, and it's like, I don't know we're using it. It's working like it's, we're too dumb to know, but we're so sometimes, sometimes, I think it's helpful to be, you know, not too much of an expert in something, because I think the experts sometimes get caught up and, you know, waiting to something's perfect. And we were like, Hey, this is good enough for what we're doing. And it had some drawbacks. And yeah, it was, it was custodial at first, and there was not any great non custodial options, but they always had the option to go back to non custodial on chain. And so for us, we felt like it was, yeah, it basically wouldn't have happened. We wouldn't have been able to continue without, you know, moving over to lightning, yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 16:28

And I'm glad you guys didn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Because, like, for example, 2020, when I first started learning about Bitcoin, and then, like, learning about the Lightning Network, and how, oh, you need the separate network. And like, on chain is slow. You hear some of the FUD from shit coiners just like, Oh, it's too slow. It's too old, whatever. But then hearing about the story of, oh, there's this little town in El Salvador that's using Bitcoin as everyday money, and it's faster with, like, instantaneous, with essentially zero fees, that like hearing about that in the real world, that made it more real, that strength in my conviction, like, Okay, this isn't just funny magic internet money. So I'm glad you guys well.

Mike Peterson: 17:05

And it was funny too to see we've had tons of like, you know, big name Bitcoiners. And lots of people would know that that did their first, you know, lightning, you know, transaction in El zonte Peter McCormick, like he had never done a lightning transaction. He did one at MAMA roses to buy papooses Ray from his no one's, I guess. Now I can't remember what originally Pat Yeah, originally from paxville. He came and he had never done lightning transaction, and he did one here, and they wrote, and then they moved packs for the lightning. You know, I think, like, a month later, it was even we had CZ was here, and we took him to show him I buy coffee. And he's like, Well, can I pay with BNB coin? We're like, No, we don't use any shit coins here. So we had to buy his coffee for him and show him how to use in lightning. Because I don't think he had done a lightning transaction at that point, or at least he didn't have any on his wallet. So it's, yeah, it's been pretty it's been pretty remarkable to see how much this little town of El zonte has actually catapulted the Lightning Network and all the companies in the space, I think so many of them were able to raise funding because of what was happening here, and we saw this huge growth in, you know, the the amount of bitcoin that was locked up in the in the Lightning Network, like as things started to surge here. And so I really, I really think that lightning might be in a different place today than it is now, if it wasn't for this project.

Evelyn Lemus: 18:43

Yeah, I can definitely believe that, and that's why it's so important to have Bitcoiners not just hodling and staying anonymous. You need some people going out in the real world and actually using it. I know there are some skeptics of circular economies and medium of exchange adoption, but like you just said, a lot of innovation has happened because people have seen this real world use case, so it's one of the many reasons why I think circular economies are so important. And so back to the story of Berlin. So you guys were hearing about this, you heard about the legal tender law. Weren't quite sure what to think. But then where? When did you decide to get into Bitcoin and then start your own project?

Gerardo Linares: 19:18

So we like Bitcoin. We saw what's happened with the legal tender, like Evelyn was saying, that's when we got serious about it, like really got into Bitcoin, and that's when we started to collaborate with different initiatives here in El Salvador. One of them was my first Bitcoin. They were looking for teachers or people that can help with anything. So we started to collaborate with them, and then we started to travel around the country. We wanted to move from San Salvador. We were living back in here in San salva Well, there in San Salvador. And we wanted to move to the mountain. We were tired of, you know, the city, so let's move to the mountain and and we knew that the mean of. We were going to move to this place or this mountain town, we're going to start to replicate what we saw here in El Salte. So yeah, that's when we get serious about it, and you start studying, like, how it's, what's a circular economy, all right? So there's people that have done it, but not with Bitcoin, all right. So there's this one place in El Santa, and it's actually here in El Salvador that had done it with Bitcoin, right? So that's what we want to do. And then we read the white paper and and it's like, this is what we want to do, and as much and you know, as you go learning about it, that's when you feel like this is what we want to do. So it became clear, you know, soon, that that's what we wanted to do.

Evelyn Lemus: 20:38

Love it. And so that brings us to around it was April or May 2023, right around there. Yeah, April May. Okay.

Gerardo Linares: 20:46

We're really bad with dates. But yeah, I remember

Evelyn Lemus: 20:49

that the first place that we on boarded from Berlin was the local high school cafe, like the shop there, because we back then we're still giving some classes at the local high school, and we were given some SATs to the to the students, and so they could have somewhere to spend it. We onboarded the local store from the high school. So that was the first business. And up to this day, they continue accepting bitcoin, and they even sell Bitcoin to the students.

Gerardo Linares: 21:21

Yeah, they sell Bitcoin to the students, because the students, they buy it, I don't know for what online games. And they go, like, with a quarter or $1 or whatever, you sell me $1 of Bitcoin, you know, and she's gonna

Mike Peterson: 21:33

buy their skins for their free Fire.

Gerardo Linares: 21:37

Yeah, yeah. They go to a Bitcoin Center too to get some bitcoin, like $1 or$2 and the k1 is

Evelyn Lemus: 21:43

so helpful too. Just those little, like quarters small change, you can convert to SATs. And that's fun that they're using it for gaming too. And I also think it's an interesting parallel the Bitcoin beach project also started with SATs for the children, you know, one the initiative, keeping them out of the gangs, just community work, but then also, you know, paying them in SATs. That's interesting that, you know, it starts with education in the next generation, kind of seeing the future for the future of money. So it started there. And so you onboarded the school, you onboard the merchant at the school. And then what happened there? And then, yeah, then we started to onboard some of the the merchants. We were not living there yet, and but we were already working there, so yeah, we started to onboard businesses, and we started to talk to people in Berlin. So we were visiting businesses with local people. And I remember that the first businesses that we onboarded, it was friends and family from the students. So it was really cool, because after the classes, we were like, on a mission with the students, with some of them, and with the uniform, and we were walking the streets of Berlin, and they were like, Let's go to this place. Let's go to this place. So those were the first ones that we were able to onboard, because we were with the kids and with family, and then we met some other people and and it was like a snowball effect, because one person got us to another person, and up to today, we have around 170 or more, because there's even businesses that I didn't know that they were accepting bitcoin. And I'm just learning about it. So there's a lot of people that we don't even know that that they accept Bitcoin in Berlin. Wow, yeah, just the ripple effects. You know, once you plant those seeds, the network effect just grows and grows and actually backing up just a little bit you'd been, I know you guys had been to several towns. You were already thinking of starting a circular economy. Part of why you settled in Berlin was the community, right? Yeah.

Gerardo Linares: 23:44

So, yeah, people there, like, everyone was saying, we went to the local high school. The kids were, like, really excited, because we had them for, like, I don't know, 810, weeks to teach them about Bitcoin once a week. So we became friends. They were introducing to other people in the town that had businesses. That how we started it. We already had the idea that that's what we wanted to do. And then when you meet another local, and, you know, this local takes you to another one, and that's pretty much how we started it, then the challenge was to, all right, so they already know how to set Bitcoin. How do we spend Bitcoin? How do we inject Bitcoin, you know, to these businesses. So I remember when we had around 1518, businesses, something like that. We opened the Twitter account, the Bitcoin Berlin Twitter account, and we started to post, hey, look this these people, is also accepting bitcoin this other place, and this other and, yeah, again, the challenge is, it was that it was really far. I mean, Berlin is far from here. I just drive from there. It was four hours to the beach, and, yeah, we had a few people telling us, actually, exactly that, why Berlin? Why all the way here? You know, it's too far from the airport, from the city, from, you know, Bitcoin beach. So why are you doing it there? How are you going to bring people to inject Bitcoin here? And and we knew that that was was good. That was going to be one of the challenges we had there.

Evelyn Lemus: 25:00

But it worked, and you decided to go forward because of the community, because you met locals, local leaders who were interested and engaged, and that helped you take things to the next level. So that's when you create the Twitter account, and then that's when you decide to create the Bitcoin Center as well.

Gerardo Linares: 25:13

Yeah, this is not the Bitcoin. The first Bitcoin said, This is the third Bitcoin Center we had had in Berlin. First one, it was a shared space with Sieber cafe. It was, I don't know, it was really small, and we were sharing it. We're sharing the space. And it didn't work. I mean, it was too small and too crowded. I didn't work. So we stayed there for maybe two weeks, and then we decided to move to another place. It was the second place. We had that place for about four months. We started, you know, the Monday meetings. We had the Monday meetings before, but officially in a place, because we there's some picture, I know, if we had that one on the garage that we were using, we were using a garage before the Bitcoin Center and, and this is the third one. That's where people this is a Monday meeting. People come to the Bitcoin Center every Monday, 630 and we start talking about mostly Bitcoin, not only Bitcoin because we talk about some other things, but it's mostly Bitcoin we've been learning, along with the community, the easiest way to introduce Bitcoin, because we've been doing these Monday meetings for two over two years now. So we've been learning how to how to introduce Bitcoin to people. So yeah, that's what we do. Yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 26:29

And I remember, so I showed up in Berlin, October 2023, I'd been living here in El zonte For the first two months. They moved to El Salvador like I was interested in growing the Bitcoin Economy, participating. So of course, like the Mecca elizonte, you got to come here first. It's the place everyone knows. But then I hear about this new project, and barleen was still just a few months old. Charlie came down for one of the farmers markets and told me about it. And so then I arrive October, that was in the second Bitcoin Center. First picture we showed you had just started the meetings, the Monday meetings. Then I guess,

Gerardo Linares: 27:00

no, no, almost, is the beginning. But they were not Bitcoin meetings like one of the things that we learned, actually, as well from from the Bitcoin white paper that is not only about Bitcoin, which is, you need to involve the community some other ways. And at the beginning, we were getting together not to talk about Bitcoin, but to plan projects like community projects like, you know, these cleaning campaigns and these painting campaigns. And we were doing that. And that's the way how, you know, try to get the community involved and convince them, because you cannot just go Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin. And I think that they appreciated the way how we got to Berlin, because we got there with an idea. We talked to them about the idea, but it wasn't everything about that idea. We were there to, you know, be part of the town, see how we can help. And then people started to trust us. And that's how, pretty much how it started. But the Monday meetings at the beginning were to plan community activities. You obviously talk about Bitcoin anyways. I mean, you always find a way to, you know, talk a little bit about Bitcoin, but that's how we introduce Bitcoin to the community. Like, I

Evelyn Lemus: 28:10

love how. Again, that parallels the Bitcoin beach story, where it starts with community initiatives, uplifting the town, so the locals can see, like, you're not a scammer. You actually are here. You're here because you believe in Bitcoin, but because it's good for the world, and you want things that are good for the world, good for the community. So, yeah, I remember hearing about, like, the painting, the Central Park, the main square, and so some of the first people, I think rams and Nikki and James and Charlie. Yeah, we're all there by that. They were the

Gerardo Linares: 28:37

first four bitcoins we had. First he actually moved before us, because we were living in San Miguel, we were already working in Berlin. We had decided that Berlin was going to be the place, but we didn't find a house. And rams actually found a house before us, like a couple of weeks before us. And so he was the first Bitcoin. And then Emily and I, we moved to Berlin, and then Nikki and James came, and then Charlie came, and then I think you were like, the next one after the after them.

Evelyn Lemus: 29:07

Like, yeah, definitely in the first 10, it was after that, yeah, first anyone like, they say it was fun those early days, is like, this exciting new project. And so that's where things like the circular economy white paper coming. You're doing the work. I wasn't well, I'm not fluent enough in Spanish that I was onboarding the merchants, but I was going around supporting, trying to show up to the Monday meetings. And you guys were having good turnout pretty consistently. So it was like, people like, Irma Pee Wee. Just Don Julio was a big one. Yeah. And then students as well. And so then things just kept growing and growing. When I showed up, I think you guys already had around like 5060, merchants onboarded something like that. And within just the next few months, it grew to, I think, 130 something like that. Yeah. So, so how did like, how did you get from what do you think were the factors with that kind of take?

Gerardo Linares: 30:00

Off. We had a good timing. I think we had a good timing. And people, a lot of Bitcoiners, were coming to El Salvador, trying to, you know, explore the Bitcoin country. And adoption wasn't as good as expected. So people were looking for places where to spend Bitcoin. And there was El sante, Bitcoin beach. And then there was Berlin back then. Now we have different communities, like in El Salvador, but back then it was just the two of us, and there were a lot of Bitcoiners coming, so people started to see that, not only the community, but the Bitcoiners that were coming to the town. And I think the reason why it has been successful in Berlin is because we're we're teaching how Bitcoin can be useful to you, like that's what people see is right at the beginning, right how house bitcoin is being useful to me. The people in Berlin, they don't have bank systems. They don't even accept credit cards. Most of the businesses, everything is cash. There's complications on you only using cash because you cannot send money around. And and people saw an opportunity when they started to see all the Bitcoiners and the meetups and, you know, this education that was coming to the town. So they saw it as something useful. I think that's why they have adopted it.

Evelyn Lemus: 31:13

Yeah, there's good timing, like just coming out of the bear market, too. And then also, I think adopting Bitcoin 2023, was a big one as kind of, like, barely, like main, you know, grand entrance onto the big stage. So, yeah, we

Gerardo Linares: 31:26

always said it like the first time we put a foot in Berlin. Bitcoin was 23k 23,000 was one Bitcoin, the first time that we we got to Berlin. Now, when over 100 we've been working on the bull market. We're gonna see now how it's gonna go. It's pretty sure it's gonna be fun. But, yeah, good timing.

Evelyn Lemus: 31:47

Yeah, it worked out really well. And so then adopting, you know, kind of took things to the next level of really shining a spotlight on the project, because it was, you know, six months old by that project, 60 some merchants already. And then I, know, personally, I co organized with Charlie economy of Bitcoin, April 2024 is just kind of an excuse to bring more people after, you know, so many people flying in to El Salvador for the having party and Bitcoin beach and Big Sean Harris are very supportive of like, bringing people over. So events like that. You know, those are good occasions for people to come check it out. But at this point, people are coming. Year round. Lots of people have heard about Berlin, and so I think

Gerardo Linares: 32:24

it helps a lot. Sorry. So adopt amigo was November. I think we did a podcast with Mike on October, I think maybe a month before, a few weeks before adopting Bitcoin. And a lot of people saw that that podcast. So that also helped to bring people to Berlin, because people knew the project because of that podcast we did definitely.

Evelyn Lemus: 32:44

I actually first heard about it on this on the Bitcoin beach podcast as well. I love that. I love that it was the episode with Nikki and James. Okay, so I heard about it, and then Charlie came down from Berlin for the farmers market. I was on there right after that, and then he was telling me about Berlin. I was like, Okay, I need to come check this place out. And I just love the project, and love the cooler climate up in the mountains, getting to see a different part of the country, beautiful views out there, and get coffee country, and just really the vibes you guys, and just the community there. So that's that's why I stuck around. But I first heard about it on this podcast, and that's also why I think it's important to do kind of the updated version of the story is, you know, new people have discovered that the Bitcoin beach podcast since then,

Gerardo Linares: 33:22

a lot of Bitcoiners that had come to Berlin have mentioned, like, I saw you on the on the Bitcoin beach podcast, like team, for example, he mentioned, first time I heard about Berlin was at the at the Bitcoin beach podcast. And then Tim is alleging now in Berlin, you know, it's like those things like a small action, so you don't know how it's gonna go.

Evelyn Lemus: 33:42

Yeah. Rip Tim, great, great man, older in his older years, but he's actually buried in Berlin, which I just find so beautiful, like the family he was staying with welcomed him into their family too. And that's actually one of the things I find so interesting about Berlin, is a lot of the times with expats, you'll see these kind of expat enclaves, but they don't really integrate with the community at all, right, but in Berlin, it, there has been a lot more integration. So how do you see, like, kind of the Do you think it's the Bitcoin Center and just what the constant activities there, or what, what do you think is kind of the factor, I think that we have been blessed with the people that have come to to the to the team and to the project and to stay in Berlin, because we have had really good ambassadors for the project. There's a lot of people that know, yeah, you're one of them. And yeah, there's a lot of people that knows about Berlin, because there's people out there talking about the product, inviting people to come to Berlin, and then the community. So you, you guys were mentioning earlier about the importance of the community, and that's where the community meets Bitcoin, and Bitcoin meets the community. But. I I don't think that Bitcoin itself will thrive in a in a circular economy without that, without the community. And so I think that we have been lucky about being Salvadorians, and that Bitcoin was a legal tender bull market, the people that have come to Berlin, and then the people from Berlin that it's welcoming all the foreigners that come to Berlin because they see the good intentions that people try to get involved, that it's not just like a regular tourist that will come and just have fun in Patti. They try to get involved, and they see that they want to help improve. And there's people giving scholarships. I remember that the first ones that we got, it was from Steve, and so we gave some English scholarships. And now some of them, they are working with Steve. So it is people trying to help Berlin. So I think, and everybody, I mean, people in Berlin, they wanted to have a change in the city. So Bitcoin was part of that. What has changed there, and it's probably worth mentioning a little bit the history of Berlin. So founded by a German immigrant late 1800s just shipwreck and fell in love with the place. And it part of why he settled there, is because it's coffee country. It's one of you know, El Salvador is one of the best coffee countries in the entire world. El Salvador's, or Berlin, is one of the best parts of El Salvador for growing coffee. And so I think it probably helped a little bit that there was that history of working together with internationals, but then also just alegria. I think the dynamic there with the neighboring town, they have the tourists coming up from San Miguel, your home, and Berlin is this agricultural hub next to it, but that's where people are doing the real work. It's the working man's town next to it. And for growing an economy and adding the Bitcoin economy to it, I think it just kind of plugged in naturally there. So Allegria

Gerardo Linares: 37:07

will make so much sense, like that's what we thought at the beginning, before Berlin. We consider Allegria because it's small. It's smaller than Berlin might be a quarter of Berlin or something, and has all these businesses around the park. You don't need to walk to onboard them, like you cross the street and you have, you have them all there. But they didn't want Bitcoin back then we were facing with a lot of employees, instead of owners. Be, you know, family or business owners, and people don't care. Like, why you mean bitcoin is going to bring me tourism, like we already have tourism, and they just didn't care Berlin.

Evelyn Lemus: 37:43

It's that that's another point from Berlin. It's that a lot of people, I think that, like, like, here in El Salter, there's a lot of family owned businesses, like mama Rosa, right? Yeah, that you get to talk to the owner, and that's easier because they are the ones making the decisions. Yeah, it really helps when you are actually speaking with the decision makers. And I really think that's part of why Berlin has succeeded for so long. Is just the community of locals and also being started by salvadoranos, that's that's part of why I found it so inspiring in the first place, too. Is like Bitcoin beach set the example right that so many people around the world are following. But how did, how does it grow? How do we take things to the next level, and that's where you need places like Berlin popping up. And you guys have also started new one, la laguna. We're gonna get into that at the end. But so for or, well, okay, I was just gonna say you. So you've got the Monday meetings for anybody who wants to visit Berlin. Those happen every meeting with the locals at the Bitcoin Center. You guys also have the classes English and Spanish, the conversation clubs on Wednesdays,

Gerardo Linares: 38:42

Wednesdays for 4pm and we did a Bitcoin. The Bitcoin channel in Berlin is having a lot of activity. I mean, that's the whole goal, that that's what we do. One of the things we do, how can we make the, you know, the this place, useful for the community. So that's why we came out with, you know, these conversational clubs and Monday meetings local high school students coming to do homeworks there. We had a guy that went from high school to university this year, and he, you know, when we came, we were coming here, he was there with some friends doing some homework. So people, do you they use the Bitcoin Center

Evelyn Lemus: 39:19

whenever I'm in town. I still always use do my work from there too. Like, it's a great, great co working space as well.

Gerardo Linares: 39:25

Yeah, the podcast, and people come and go. They use the ATM. And now there's the place where you meet. Like, where do we meet? You know, can people meet for stuff? Let's meet at the Bitcoin setting. People just do that. So, yeah, we're happy. You know, it's working for the community.

Evelyn Lemus: 39:41

And then the one of the projects that we also did this year that I have going back to what you were saying that focusing on educating the next generation, it's key for the project and for the country to change, basically because you're educating the next generation, the next people that it's going. To be leading the country next business owners, and they will already know about Bitcoin. So this year, we started this program within the local high school. This is a third year in a row that we are educating that the local high school, which is around 500 students, and so we we wanted to do more, and not only the intra class. So what we decided to do and came up with, it was with this idea of doing Bitcoin university, so kids can know more about Bitcoin, but only people that wanted to know, because you're educating 500 students, but out of those 500 how many of them like really want to go deeper, so we send them a form. It was for the from Cuba and Daniel from my first Bitcoin that joined me to for the classes. So we send them a form, and all the kids that were interested, they fill out the form, and then we scheduled it the first classes, and we ended up with 21 students. And so now they are. They know about self custody because we went through history of money, osteoer economics, lining on chain notes and a lot of a lot of things that even I had to learn to teach them. They was really cool, because when you're teaching, you need to to learn to teach. And for me, it was, it was a challenge. And then we got some people that also came to give some lectures. And so this year, I think that a lot of them already know how to have a note, how to run a note, and the mindset that they have changed from how they started, and if you listen to them now, it's like, totally different.

Gerardo Linares: 41:59

Yeah, it's easier. It's easier with young people like the mind switch.

Evelyn Lemus: 42:04

Yeah, and so Bob, I want to say thank you to Mike, because whenever we have com to Bitcoin beach for help, they have always been there in he basically helped us with this Bitcoin university project. So thank you so much. Because a lot of

Gerardo Linares: 42:24

kids more of all the secret economies which is supporting so yeah,

Evelyn Lemus: 42:28

and yeah. So, so all these kids, I mean, the mind that they had in the beginning has changed, and in they want to continue teaching. Now they are asking, how can we get involved. How can I teach? I want to teach the next year. So it's beautiful to just see the snowball effects of how these things build on each other. And also, it's funny, earlier you mentioned how a lot of these very well known Bitcoin commentators, you know, flew in from around the world, and they'd been longtime Bitcoiners, talking to hundreds of 1000s of people about Bitcoin, and they never done a lightning transaction before. Here in Berlin, El Salvador, you have kids who know how to run lightning nodes. I'm just saying El Salvador is doing things on another level, and just the snowball effect from, you know, start the little project that upended the monetary order. It's like people are living in the future. Kids are living in the future, running nodes in Berlin. So I just think that's so so beautiful, and that's why I really wanted to highlight this. And also it's exciting. There's a lot of fun about El Salvador and the IMF deal and, oh, is it still Bitcoin country? But people have not stopped using Bitcoin as everyday money here.

Mike Peterson: 43:35

It's so funny, because the only people interested in that are people that are mostly outside El Salvador. And like, the actual average Salvadoran, they don't even know in about any of that. Like, that's not what they're focused on. And I feel like Bitcoin adoption is is higher than ever right now. Yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 43:54

And if you check BTC map, the number of merchants has gone up. Number in Berlin has gone up, number of communities, number of communities has gone up, and that segues perfectly. And not

Mike Peterson: 44:03

just accepting, but like wanting or preferring a lot of them now to be paid in Bitcoin. It was, it's, yeah, it's been amazing to see how the skepticism to like, you know, becoming fervent like Bitcoiners, is com,

Evelyn Lemus: 44:17

yeah, actually, there's a great example in Berlin forgetting her name, the lady juice. Yeah, yeah. You want to tell a little bit about maybe this

Gerardo Linares: 44:29

lady never came to the Bitcoin Center, but she likes Bitcoin because she's always working right. And she started to accept payments in Bitcoin. She started to see how the value of the SATs were growing, and then she wanted more. And every time that we go there, or at least when I go there and I asked for some juice or some fruit or whatever, she overcharged me. So, so you know, because she knows I pay with Bitcoin, she overcharged me. I pay in Bitcoin that she gives me my fruit, plus some other coins in Fiat. You know, because she's buying Bitcoin that way. So and she keeps stacking, yeah? I mean, I'm happy to go every time, you know, to get something I want to buy.

Evelyn Lemus: 45:10

That's so beautiful, yeah. So it really is a powerful vehicle for spreading adoption to all these other people. And she's huddling. She's spending so many people in Berlin, not just huddling, not not just accepting and cashing out right away. Many are hodling. They're reinvesting in their businesses. They're even spending with each other, right? In some cases,

Gerardo Linares: 45:30

yeah, that's what people do most. Like spending. We're kind of like, we will love everyone to be like Elsie, you know, stacking. That's the kind of we need to figure out how to convince or make people to understand that you need to stack Bitcoin. It's not only about using it like you say. You know, there's people that have give talks to 1000 people, and they never use lightning. Here in Berlin, is the other way around. People do use lining, but they barely keep it sometimes. So yeah, we need to figure out how to, how to make people saving Bitcoin. But there's, there's a few already doing it.

Mike Peterson: 46:02

Doing it. But I think that that's one of the great thing about Bitcoin, is when people start using it, then they start realizing the opportunity cost. And so it actually that's why I always tell people, like, if you want more Bitcoin, move to a Bitcoin standard, because you will decrease your overall spending. Because you'll really think about it. Are you willing to part with your SATs for this? And if it's for food or something that you need, then yeah, you should do it if in something that you know it's it's not. The goal isn't to just die with a bunch of Bitcoin, like hoarded. It's a tool to be used. But you do start to understand that the compounding effect effect of saving in Bitcoin, and so

Gerardo Linares: 46:41

yeah, like this lady, I'm pretty sure that she, again, she doesn't go to that Bitcoin Center. She's She knows about Bitcoin on her own by being exposed to Bitcoin, like she started by downloading a wallet and getting the first payment, and then she started to stack a little bit more asking questions, and that's how she learned. And everything started because of that one first transaction she did. She was just being exposed to Bitcoin. I mean, that's the approach that we've been taking in Berlin. Like just have people exposed to Bitcoin. Doesn't matter the wallet. I mean, doesn't matter whatever one transaction is all they need, and then they go from there

Evelyn Lemus: 47:19

and just seeing it constantly. Like bear the Bitcoin Center is in Google Maps barely and like, Bitcoin is literally on the map. There people walk by the center there. Bitcoin accepted. Here, signs everywhere. And the approach that has has been working in Berlin for almost three years now. You guys decided to replicate it now. So there is this new project. Yeah, we mentioned earlier. So La Laguna, I'm representing it. Gerardo and I, we didn't coordinate wearing the same but, yeah, I just recently visited a couple weeks ago. Yeah, really cool. So could you tell us a little bit about that project?

Gerardo Linares: 47:51

Yeah, so, I mean, we will love to see a bitcoinized country. I mean, that's that will be the goal for us. Like, you know, this keeps growing, I'm sure. Right now it looks really far away, but it's, again, you know, snowball effect, like, right right now it's the beginning. Eventually it's gonna, it's gonna get easier and easier. So we want to do our part. We'll be working in Berlin now. We're working on this other front in the north side of the country, chalatenango, in a small town called La Laguna. And we've seen Berlin, I think that we have learned quite a lot from what we've done. I mean, we've made a lot of mistakes on the past two, almost three years, and I think we have knowledge to try to replicate it like we feel like we can do it. So we've been feeling that way for quite some time now, and we started to see what will be a good place to try to replicate what we learned in Berlin, and we've been traveling around the country. We got to this place, beautiful mountain town. It's really small. Well you've seen it, quiet town, really clean. People, friendly people,

Evelyn Lemus: 48:58

beautiful, beautiful mountain views, beautiful

Gerardo Linares: 49:01

mountain views, a lot of water, like waterfalls and yeah, around, yeah, that's one of the things

Evelyn Lemus: 49:06

that I find most interesting about it is it's like, high up in the mountains, but you have these great waterfalls. They're coming from the mountain. Yeah, it's smaller than Berlin. It's more around the size of El zonte, probably about 2000 inhabitants, so I think

Mike Peterson: 49:21

a little smaller,

Evelyn Lemus: 49:23

okay, yeah. El zonte is around 3000 Berlin. I've seen estimates anywhere from like 11,000 to 25,000 Yeah, kind of the in the general area, probably more like 25,000 10,000 the town.

Gerardo Linares: 49:34

1000, the town, yeah, the city, yeah, yeah. No. La Laguna, it's like, it's just like, Berlin has the urban area and the rural area, right? Berlin, you know, urban and rural area, it's 25,000 or something like that. I think just in the city is just about 10, 10,000 so in Laguna is the same, but most people is in the rural areas. There might be three, 8000 people living in the in the outside of the town. We. In the town, it might be 2000 So, small town, small city. They have stuff like, you know, hotels, they have car to rent. They have gyms, they have silver cafes, they have food. They have different stuff.

Evelyn Lemus: 50:16

They have great coffee up there. They have good quality coffee there too. And I remember you guys were telling me? So what? You guys had this idea to start a second project, and you were riding around chalatenango. You knew you wanted somewhere still in the mountains. Some people prefer the beach. Some people prefer mountains. It's great to have both. So you guys kind of had this rough area in mind. Why did you settle on La Laguna? What's the story there?

Gerardo Linares: 50:39

We visited? Because it's a whole mountain range, the whole border with Honduras. There's a bunch of towns there and communities. And we, we visited. We couldn't visit, like all of them, like we visited a few, and we pretty much were looking for a place like Berlin, or at least right to replicate, you know, because maybe within three years that we want to do a third one, we will go outside of what we know, but at least now we needed to, like, spread the seeds on fertile land. You know, we can all like, so that's why we want to, like, really choose the place. When we got there, it was pretty much the same we had in Berlin. You see that meeting over there? That was like the second, I think it was the second time we visited la laguna. First time we went there. We started walking around the town, no invitation, no nothing. We started to talk to local people. We met this lady, you know, Sule from from La Laguna. She's great. She's great. She's selling coffee in La Laguna, and she has a coffee plantation and everything. So we told her, you know, we want this is what we did in Berlin. It's funny because we were saying in Berlin, look what they did in El Salte. Let's do it here in Berlin. And now we're going to La Laguna saying, Look what we did in La Laguna in Berlin, and look what they've done in, you know, something's getting easier. So they like the idea. This lady, we told her, you know, the best way to communicate to people, the idea of this project, is to sit everyone on one room. That way we can communicate to them. And she was like, yeah, no problem. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, to any call. Calls, 25 calls after we had that meeting over there, there were more people. And because she was like, there's these guys look at their social and she was sending the link and then calling them so they want to talk to us about a project here in Laguna, and all of those are business owners, or, you know, there was people from the municipality there in that meeting. And all of a sudden, the second visit we did in La La Juliana, we had this meeting, and everyone there was by the end of the meeting, you know, with a Bitcoin wallet install and, and we told them all, Berlin and Bitcoin beach. And they're like, Yeah, let's do it. So that's the kind of thing that pushed you to all right? This is the place, you know, second time we had all those people listening about Bitcoin. So that's why we choose la. La, Juliana, yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 53:13

And again, I just really want to emphasize the patterns here, because part of the goal is, of this episode is to kind of inspire more circular economies and show people the story and what's worked. So again, it was community. It was a local leader who was really integrated, knew the other business leaders, and it started small. That's something I know you've emphasized many times, is especially if you're living in a big city. You don't try to orange pill everybody. You start with one street, you start with one merchant, you build relationships, and then that kind of just fast tracks in. And it helps when you have proof of work, like you were

Mike Peterson: 53:45

saying, well, and this is a perfect example of what we've we've always pushed, is you want to start small, so that you actually show that it works. But then when you can go and you have the example of El sante, you have the example of Berlin for them on the second meeting to have all those people show up, that was very different than when we were starting in El zonte. Like it took a long time to get to that point. And so the further this goes along, it gets easier and easier because people have already heard of it. They've already heard of the successes of it. They kind of understand Bitcoin. And so it just becomes easier and easier as you kind of ripple out. So that's why we tell people, it's like throwing a pebble in a pond and and then let it ripple out. Don't try to take the whole pond at first. Just take that little part and once, if you can make a splash there, then you can have an impact, you know, on the whole country, in the whole world,

Evelyn Lemus: 54:37

the pond ripple expands into a tidal wave that you can surf all the way from Bitcoin beach to the mountains of Berlin and la laguna. And so you guys started the circular economy like So you started with the meeting with the merchants. You created a Bitcoin Center. I think we showed the picture already. And then recently, so last month, I came and visited for this. It was merchants. Yeah. Could you explain a little bit about the merchant organization? Yes?

Gerardo Linares: 55:00

So they we had this meeting. We had the people interested. You need to keep it moving. So next thing we did after that meeting was to have for Mother's Day May the 10th, here in El Salvador. We did a an event, you know, small festival in the same park. And we did some contests on singing contest. We gave a price on SATs, and we told all the people, let's start with this. You know, we're gonna try to bring Bitcoiners. People are gonna spend SATs within the town. We're gonna bring the team from Berlin. We're gonna be here as well. Let's start with this one project. And they did like it, because some people show up on Mother's Day and the few Sats are being injected to the town, you know. So what's next? Because you got to keep it like all right. So we're going to open the Bitcoin Center now in La Laguna, which you visited. We tried to keep it open. And people come and go, just like in Berlin, you know, like at the beginning, people come curious. They I have some bitcoin on my chibo wallet since, you know, ages. Can I, you know, make it cash here? You know, that's the first things that people come in and ask. And now we have conversations with the local high school. We're gonna give classes next year in the local high school as well, just like we did in Berlin, we're gonna try to give a few scholarships there as well. And, you know, Bitcoin adoption make more excuses, so Bitcoiners can come to inject more Bitcoin. And the one thing that we want to focus here in La Laguna is remittances. You saw the like, beautiful houses there, you know, like small town, but beautiful town there's,

Evelyn Lemus: 56:37

there are some stunning houses with these beautiful like balcony views, just the different sight lines with all these gorgeous mountain backdrops. And you mentioned, yeah, a lot of it is remittances. And I just want to emphasize the biggest merchant in town is also one that you've already orange built, and that is the hardware store, which I just love. People are physically building there, so you can inject, like the SATs come into the town, and it's like you can physically see the results.

Gerardo Linares: 57:04

There's no better business to have that in Laguna than a hardware store, because everyone is building like everyone's doing stuff, and that's a lot because of remittances. Like it's people Salvadorian sending money from the United States and, you know, other countries. And we want to teach people how you can save money, and it's easier, you can save on fees, and it's easier to receive Bitcoin remittances with Bitcoin. So if there is a place, I mean, probably sure there's some other places, but this is a good place where we can actually do that, because there's a lot of money coming in remittances. So we want that to be Bitcoin, and people start using it.

Evelyn Lemus: 57:44

I've heard that that was one of the big reasons why Bitcoin took off in El Salvador in the first place. Is a huge percentage of the income for people is remittances. So Western Union, they used to have to not only travel on a bus hours away, wait in line and then also potentially be robbed by gangs leaving, but they're also just the higher fees. It's slower, it's more expensive, it's more risky, but Bitcoin,

Mike Peterson: 58:06

but it has, I will say it is that that potential was always like, they're like, Wow, this is amazing. This is the perfect thing. But the uptake of people actually using it for remittances has been slower than than we had kind of hoped. So I love the what you guys are doing of trying to focus on that, because I still believe that once people real, the problem is people are creatures of habit, and they just want to do it the same way. And so they're like, I don't have to learn all this. So if you can get them to realize how much easier it is, then that kind of ripples out to everybody else, because then they show their friend, oh, why are you still doing it that way? Like you should just use Bitcoin. So I love that you guys are doing that.

Gerardo Linares: 58:48

The remittances place in Berlin and in La Laguna, it's always busy, like they always have a line of people waiting to get their remittance. So yeah, because there's an opportunity there to teach people how to receive with Bitcoin,

Evelyn Lemus: 59:04

yeah, the same in Berlin, we because they closed the bank, they move it, then they've removed the the ATM, the Chivo ATM, so we got all the people that was receiving the remittances, basically from anywhere with Chivo, they are now coming to the center, so yeah, and so that's a big opportunity for us, because we are talking to people and telling them, Hey, you don't need to change the money to cash. You need to. You can go to these places and and spend the Bitcoin from your wallet. So that's a really good opportunity that we're having also in Berlin. Yeah. Definitely benefits Berlin having both the remittances, people earning SATs and spending with each other, and also expats, international Bitcoiners flying in just to experience the circular economy. So it's good to have SATs flowing in from these different spots.

Mike Peterson: 59:58

And a great thing too, when you have. Expats come in that you have a lot of them that are living on a Bitcoin standard, and so they're doing all their expenses in Bitcoin. So they're continually injecting into the communities, exactly.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:00:10

And speaking of living full time on a Bitcoin standard, and it, you know, injecting SATs into the communities and the Bitcoin economy. So in Berlin, that's where Charlie and Charlie was right after rams, and right there with Nick and James is one of the first one of the first to move to Berlin. I came soon after, and after we all went to adopting Bitcoin 2023 you guys had the great talk and brought all of us on stage. Is like, we should do a mini version of this in Berlin. So, yeah, we first did it after the having party, and then we just did round two was part of Bitcoin month after Bitcoin historico and adopting Bitcoin this November, 2525 and, yeah, this was a ton of fun. So two days, we had about like 50 different panelists across the two days. First day, mostly in first day, all in English. Second day, pretty much all in Spanish. And so we had Circular Economy leaders from throughout Latin America, one even from Africa. We had Mike and chimbera there. It's actually Mike's birthday, you know, give him a cake and sang happy birthday and

Mike Peterson: 1:01:08

everything. But embarrassed me on stage.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:01:12

There was a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you for coming again. Yeah. Think it's fitting that, you know, celebrating the birthday at a conference, celebrating circular economies in a circular economy. And, yeah. So it was people from different circular economies. We were highlighting, kind of the pillars as Charlie and I see them for a circular economy to succeed. So it was community, education, technology and entrepreneurship kind of all coming together. So, yeah, just kind of, you know, events are give people an expense to come visit. So why

Gerardo Linares: 1:01:40

you think all that people did after that, they went to the town and to spend SATs like, that's what we need. The people using Bitcoin and these kind of events, they really help. Because you might, you know this, this, merchants might receive a few transactions a week, all of a sudden, on a week, and they're receiving a bunch of them, you know, and they see that, and it really helps for the whole Bitcoin you know, familiarity with people, yeah, yeah,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:02:06

that's exactly the goal. Is just kind of like you see this year round steady stream of Bitcoiners coming through Berlin, but then just kind of having these big events where it's just this big influx, and, you know, all of the hotels are sold out, and everybody's paying in Bitcoin, can only get into the conference with Bitcoin, and then everybody goes out into the town across the two days and just spending with all the different versions. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of fun. And so, speaking of circular economies, we so we had luthando from Bitcoin, Akashi comes to economy. But then just a couple weeks later, the Bitcoin beach team flew out to Africa. So could you tell us a little

Mike Peterson: 1:02:40

bit about, yeah, so one of our big focuses is supporting all these other projects around the world. And so one of the things we're doing is we've put it on these summits where we bring a number of projects together for a few days. We do, you know, intense workshops. We can share what's working in, you know, one community, then they can say, Wow, they're doing that there. We should adopt that in this community. We also bring in speakers of different tools, you know, whether it's wallet developers, you know, educational you know, people that have education material, a bunch of different things, just to expose them to all these different tools. And we did the first one in El zonte last year, and it was amazing. We had, I think, like, 15 projects that came in for it. Did you guys come for that you guys did? Right? Yeah, I'm trying to remember, but I was pretty sure you guys were there. So it was, yeah, it was just amazing to see, and the friendships and the relationships developed from there, and just how much they learned that people left from here and, you know, went back, and their projects exploded because they were just like so excited. They have had all these new ideas. But one of the challenges we ran into was getting project leaders from Africa, because the lot of the passports they have are so weak, they have such restrictions on being able to travel. It wasn't just getting we could get the visas for El Salvador, but it was the countries they had to like pass through they couldn't get the travel visas for. And so this year, we decided we would actually go to Africa to do that, specifically with the projects in Africa. And so the the African Bitcoin Conference, which is a conference which is a conference that's been going on for a few years. This year they were having it in Mauritius, which happens to be a visa free for almost all of Africa, like place. And so we said, Okay, this is perfect. We'll go there. We can bring all these people together. We can, they can attend the African Bitcoin Conference, and then after, we'll have our Summit. We had the summit. It was amazing. Yeah, we had, you know, a bunch of different people like from the space come in and be speakers. We also had the new president of the African Bitcoin Conference. She attended. And. Um, she's actually agreed to come to the summit we're doing here in El zonte Again, in just a few, guess couple weeks here, we'll be putting that on so, so yeah, so that's amazing to see just how it's growing, how this network of circular Bitcoin economies around the world is growing the summit that we're doing in a couple weeks here, I think we have 25 projects. So from pretty much every continent, I think, except for Antarctica, we're going to have people here. So yeah, it's going to be the 27th through the 29th and I think on the 29th it's going to be open. Last year we had it open to everybody, so as long as we can accommodate that again, we're going to open it up to Bitcoiners that are that are here, that want to come participate, and it's right before the plan B conference. So if you're planning to come for Plan B, just come early, hang out at the beautiful beach in El zonte and then come participate in this on the 29th Yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:05:58

And as general advice for anybody flying, to El Salvador for any of these big events. Always plan to stay at least one week before or after, really, ideally, at least one week on either side, just to get the full El Salvador experience.

Mike Peterson: 1:06:10

They might just correction. It might be the 28th that we're having the open day. So just come early. Make sure you come early and spend the weekend and El zonte, and you make sure you won't miss it

Evelyn Lemus: 1:06:20

never hurts to be an El zonte, yeah, it's beautiful here. You can always just swim in the Pacific Ocean, especially if you live somewhere cold, like, why not take a break? Take a little vacation to Bitcoin paradise. But yeah, I also love how these events, they are important for people to come together, share what's working with each other. One of my favorite bits of feedback after economy of Bitcoin this year was how many Spanish speaking Bitcoiners were there, and these technical Bitcoiners from various Latin American countries didn't really have anybody back home that they could talk about Bitcoin at a high level with in their native language. And so just being able to bring people together like that, and you never know what can come out of these types of events. And we

Gerardo Linares: 1:06:59

like that about Plan B last year, or, like, this year? Yeah, last year, the whole Spanish and English stage,

Mike Peterson: 1:07:07

which they're gonna do again, they're gonna have the whole this cool Spanish the puzzle.

Gerardo Linares: 1:07:12

People mentioned that there's way more girls on Spanish, you know, the Spanish side of the conference, than on the English side.

Mike Peterson: 1:07:21

That's funny. You say that I didn't think about that time, but that's true. There were a lot of women there, and not so much on the English side,

Gerardo Linares: 1:07:29

because I was going back and forward. And yeah, it was different. Interesting. Everybody was it was cool. I like it last year. It was really nice. The whole conference.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:07:38

That is really cool. And it's also funny that you Evelyn is the woman were the one who got into

Gerardo Linares: 1:07:43

Bitcoin, but yeah, always the only way around. I heard like, you know,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:07:46

he's a wise man because he listened. Look at me. Yeah. And also shout out to like, like, Pam, your sisters of Satoshi. They're actually a lot of great salvadoranas Who are stepping up with Bitcoin initiatives. There's a bunch of

Gerardo Linares: 1:08:04

guys, a guy's meetings like they do, you know, because they get a brunch and girls,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:08:11

because every Bitcoin meet up, it's a guy's meeting. But shout out to all the women in Bitcoin, and they played a big role in both Bitcoin, Berlin and la laguna. It was Sule and la

Gerardo Linares: 1:08:22

laguna. Your symbol there,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:08:25

Patti and Berlin. Patti, Irma, yeah. So shout out to, like, the women stepping up, and especially, like with the communities there, it can make such a difference. So yeah. And also, you guys mentioned Plan B. So before Plan B, we've got the circular economy Summit, yeah. And then, after Plan B, we are also going to be doing some stuff in Berlin, yeah.

Gerardo Linares: 1:08:45

So, so we know there's gonna be people, Bitcoiners, visiting El Salvador, and a lot of them, they like to go and see Berlin, either for the first time, or coming back and back in November, we did economy now we the plan this for February. We're planning from February the second to February the fourth. So it's going to be three days. You can come early or, you know, on the second day. And we're going to have events planned around Berlin. We want Bitcoiners to see, you know, as much as they can from Berlin, because even though it's a small town, there's a lot to see, and there's some really nice places, some really good businesses that we will love them to visit. So we're gonna, we're it's not going to be a conference, although there's going to be a few solo talks and panels, but a spread around the businesses in Berlin. So we're going to have maybe four or five locations where and it's going to be scheduled within the three days. So you know, this time by lunch or you're by dinner, we're going to have because we're going to gather here, there's going to be this panel happening. You might listen to the panel, and then, you know, it's a Bitcoin meetup, and we're going to do a few of those within those three days. I don't know if you want to say what we've been planning as well, besides this,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:09:58

yeah, oh, I'm very, very excited about this. We are also planning a Bitcoin Circular Economy soccer tournament, and I'm so, so excited for this. Just like one of the things I love about living in Berlin is you've got that court in the cage right by the Mirador for like five a side, and it's something that you know, soccer is called the world's game for a reason. You know, it's a universal language. And stepping on the court, it got competitive when we're playing the other day, we played like three hours a couple weeks ago, it was just I got sore for like two weeks. We were just waiting for them, like, when is this going to end outside? And they were like,

Gerardo Linares: 1:10:33

change, Juliana says defeat if no one says

Evelyn Lemus: 1:10:38

we played like, long three, back to back games here to start out, three on three, then four on four, then five on five. So the point is, a lot of barely in SS and a lot of Bitcoiners from around the world all love soccer, and we realized this could be a great reason.

Mike Peterson: 1:10:51

What are you gonna call football? I mean, come on, the

Evelyn Lemus: 1:10:56

Italians would say Calcio tornado football. Yeah.

Gerardo Linares: 1:10:59

Now football Yeah, enough football here in southwestern football and but that's gonna be fun. We tried to do it in November, and we were really, you know, unlucky.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:11:10

We had everybody there anyway, all getting warmed up, and then it started pouring and

Gerardo Linares: 1:11:14

started raining. We tried to play for like, 1015, minutes. Nice, nice. It's not possible, yeah, but we almost gonna get hurt. And yeah, so with, sorry, yeah, we

Evelyn Lemus: 1:11:24

just, we had people from Isla pariah, the circular economy project that, yeah, you mentioned earlier, and it's one of the ones that Bitcoin beach helped launch. We had so they're, they're coming Santa Ana communities, bringing a team. Bitcoin beach might be bringing a team. San Salvador is working on a team, the kind of Sun blast club could call areas working on a team. So we have, oh, and La crypto was

Gerardo Linares: 1:11:46

there back in November, and yeah, Bitcoin calls.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:11:50

So we definitely have at least four teams, guaranteed. We're probably gonna have eight teams and so knockout tournament. So that'll be at least the first two days as part of the event. And yeah, it's three full days of activity, though, that's right next to the main square. And kind of the idea is an immersive Bitcoin barely in experience, not just another conference. We're still going to do economy again in November, and that'll just be an annual thing. And if anybody wants to sponsor that, you know, those the big, fancy stage doesn't pay for itself, so, you know, feel free to reach out if you want to sponsor that. It's a great event 200 people. But you know, we're not going to do that every single time, and people don't want a conference every single time. You can have different types of experiences. So it's

Gerardo Linares: 1:12:28

just that, like this place we're seeing right there, that's where we're planning to end the three days. That's an amazing view. What you see down there is Berlin. That's the whole city. And then, like I was telling you have this around this, you know, you have this green area, which is not the city, but there's still a lot of people living around but you get to see the whole Berlin. You have that amazing view. And we're gonna end on the fourth, on the last day, you know, a nice gathering in that place and along with the football tournament. So, yeah, it's gonna be a busy three days in Berlin. Just come to Berlin, there's gonna be activities spread around the town. You're gonna have the opportunity to explore, to see the nature. We'll have some walking, hiking tours.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:13:17

Yeah, I was just about to mention so we went to this just a couple weeks ago, and you were telling me on the way up that the coffee the Finca right next to it. I think you said all of the Starbucks locations in El Salvador get their coffee from that place in Berlin, Berlin.

Gerardo Linares: 1:13:32

So it's crazy you cannot access. I mean, I haven't been lucky. I haven't been able to access that place, but it looks crazy. Operations they have on coffee. And, yeah, they explore coffee outside El Salvador, and they provide as well to at least those are the rumors you know that they provide to all the Starbucks in El Salvador.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:13:50

So there's very high quality coffee. And Harry, also British Bitcoin, or who has been living in Berlin full time, I'm sure he'll do Finca tours, yeah, so you can see all the different merchants and get the different, like, the full Bitcoin Berlin experience, yeah?

Gerardo Linares: 1:14:03

So, like, Berlin is big, like, between the volcano and these guys, like, halfway through is still Berlin? Probably, like, yeah, no, it's a lot to see in nature and stuff that people don't get to see when they come, usually, to Berlin. So we're gonna have, you know, present the opportunity to them so they can visit now,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:14:22

it's gonna be an amazing experience. Can't miss that February, 2 through fourth. And I know it is past Mike's bedtime, so we should start winding way past my bedtime. So I would like to just close out by saying you, you are also the Bitcoin Beach is starting 14 new circular economies. Would you like to just briefly talk about, like, Punta mango and just the difference? Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 1:14:40

So the goal is to make sure that there is one in each department. So we're not necessarily starting ourselves 14 with it. You know, obviously there's already one in Berlin there, you know, there, which is in silicon department, yeah. And then, and then, well, the the new one, and La Laguna, which. Is inango. So there is, and then there's already one in some, I believe, in sonata, and in San Miguel. And so there is a lot of these that have already been started. But that is the goal, is to make sure there's at least one Circular Economy project in each department that was our goal to do, and in this last year, we didn't quite accomplish that all of them. So we're hoping by the end of 2016 that we'll have everything up and running.

Gerardo Linares: 1:15:33

They've been doing meetings in meetups, in such a total and what's the other place we're talking with? Freddie, yeah, I don't know. I mean, we're gonna do the tournament on February we I don't know. We can say, you know, like we're planning, maybe that can scale to a full tournament on circular economy. I was talking to Freddie and Brian, and we've been

Evelyn Lemus: 1:15:56

talking about this with Luigi and Berlin as well, about skip. So this tournament, February, 2 and third. It's going to make history. You can't miss it, because this could grow into a circular economy soccer league with just kind of an excuse for the circular economies to visit each other.

Gerardo Linares: 1:16:10

And this child chop and Suchy toto meetups they do can be synchronized with the football match. You know, more people coming, you know, I'm pretty sure when, whenever Berlin, you know, has to play in child trouble. So ChiTo, it's not going to be just the play. It's going to be like Berlin coming on a bus, you know, to support, like, like the team, and that's going to help to all these meetups. So I think football, like you said, is, you know, it's really popular in El Salvador. That's another way to, you know, get bitcoin there,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:16:42

bring people together. And yeah, if you never want to be fair warning. You never want to play goalkeeper against this guy. Really good striker. Yeah. So stay tuned for all that very exciting things to come. People who are spreading FUD, about Bitcoin, about El Salvador, oh, it isn't money. Bitcoin is dead. IMF, whatever, come visit. See for yourself. We got all these new circular economies popping up. Berlin still going strong, Bitcoin beach still going strong, inspiring and supporting projects around the world. And things are just getting started, only getting only up from here. Yeah, thank you

Gerardo Linares: 1:17:14

all the people that have, you know, stay and still fight and you know, built in the country as a Salvadorian, you really appreciate, and you know, the people that are a bit for, for your country,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:17:26

yeah, and I think that the the IMF stuff, it was just just a push for us to keep working and work harder than ever. And I see like,

Gerardo Linares: 1:17:40

now it's, this is the kind of thing that you expect, and you know, you got to work around it, yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:17:44

And the medium of exchange adoption was always going to be grassroots anyway, and the grassroots is still building, yeah. So, yeah, come see for yourself, especially if you're in El Salvador for Plan B. Anyway. Come early El zonte, we got the circular economy Summit, and then afterwards, in Berlin, oh, well, actually, the day right after February 1, there will be a festival here. And then February Monday, February 2 through Wednesday, February 4. Come on up to barely, and it's gonna be a lot of fun.

Mike Peterson: 1:18:09

And then, I don't Paco if you can throw the picture of Punta mango, but while, if you're in the country, the East in the beaches are some of the most beautiful. They have the whole Surf City two initiative they're really pushing on that end of the country. So this is beautiful Punta Mongo. We actually just opened a Bitcoin focused boutique hotel there. So you can go to the website, stay at Bitcoin beach, and you can kind of see some of the options. We're also going to We're building something here in El zonte too. So we want to have a couple hotels. There's lots of great hotels in both in places that accept Bitcoin already, but we want to have some that are really, like, focused on on Bitcoin. So check out the the website stay at Bitcoin Beach. This is, this is my favorite place. If, if my wife would let me this, we would move actually here. I mean, I love El zonte, but Punta Mongo. I mean, it's, it's like, another level.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:19:02

There it is. So, so beautiful, one of the most beautiful places I've ever been.

Gerardo Linares: 1:19:06

A lot of on that side of the country, there's a lot of places like this that has, haven't been discovered. I mean, people know them, but not as much as they know well, something or

Mike Peterson: 1:19:15

No, it's not very developed yet. It's still like, has that magical? Like, it's a hidden gym.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:19:21

Yeah, definitely, the highway wasn't ready yet, and they're building the airport there. So, yeah, there's going to be a lot more activity. And one of the things, I think, one of the many, many reasons I love Berlin, is it is kind of the bridge to the eastern half of the country as well. Yeah? So also, it's actually, it's faster to get from Berlin to Punta mango than it is to get from Berlin to Horizonte?

Gerardo Linares: 1:19:42

Yeah, you can make a stop in Berlin and then continue after, yeah,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:19:45

right before economy, we all went down. It was just a little

Gerardo Linares: 1:19:50

day trip. What's this? Is this La Union or San Miguel

Evelyn Lemus: 1:19:53

or no solution? I think

Mike Peterson: 1:19:55

it's technically a solidan. But just like in the like, I. I think, like 100 yards or something like, is the line, and then it would be San Miguel.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:20:05

Just missed it. Still need another circular

Mike Peterson: 1:20:08

car, because we got, yeah, we got Berlin, we got la pariah, punto mango, so, but Punta Manu kind of stretches along that whole beach area there, and the rest of it is San Miguel, so I think we got that covered too.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:20:22

So love it cool, yeah, and I know we're trying to wind out one last thing I just remembered. So the first time each of you guys met Mike, one was at Punta mango, the other was at Isla pariah, right?

Gerardo Linares: 1:20:31

Yes, yes. So I met my first time. Do I say we shake hands? He was the Punta mango. Hope House. Hope House opening.

Mike Peterson: 1:20:40

Yeah, yeah, you guys, you guys broke down come in there and had to turn around, yeah, but you still made it.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:20:49

Still made it like, yeah. We swapped the car, yeah.

Gerardo Linares: 1:20:54

We had to swap cars. And, you know, keep going. And then, yeah, yeah,

Mike Peterson: 1:20:58

yeah. And then we met in LA Perez,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:21:00

yeah. We first met, then we ride these

Unknown: 1:21:04

carretas, uh huh, with the wolves, yeah, yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:21:07

So that was the first time that I met Mike. It was really awesome, even for me as a Salvadorian. That was amazing

Mike Peterson: 1:21:14

experience, for sure.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:21:16

I love it and all these different places and all these different events at these different places, giving people a reason to meet each other. And then you know from that meeting, like you mentioned earlier, Mike and Bitcoin beach have supported so many of the other projects. So anytime you get a chance to come to one of these events, you never know what could happen. So yeah, this the next few weeks. If you're in town for Plan B, that's January 30 and 31st come on to El zonte before for the circular economy Summit, and just for the general vibes, the surfing vacation, and then coming up to barely and afterward, for the full immersive experience, including the tornado. Difficult. Any final thoughts,

Mike Peterson: 1:21:53

that's good. Maybe everyone that is watching,

Gerardo Linares: 1:21:56

you know, if they want to support circular economies, because there's a lot of work behind it. Spend SATs. Like just going spend SATs, that's the best way for

Mike Peterson: 1:22:06

spend your Bitcoin. Yeah,

Evelyn Lemus: 1:22:08

definitely. Oh, and so, actually, very, very final, just to close it out, so you can keep up with Bitcoin, bear lean. You guys have a YouTube page. You have Bitcoin barely in SV on x, it's Bitcoin beach on x. I'm Jethro Toro on X you've got the Bitcoin beach podcast, and you may also be watching this on the Bitcoin country podcast, but if you're watching on the Bitcoin beach one, subscribe on rumble Bitcoin country. And thank you all for listening. Thank you. Yeah, no. Thank you very much for having us. And it was amazing. There's always something that I learned from the podcast and from from Bitcoin beach. So it's still, I'm still learning, and that's great.

Mike Peterson: 1:22:45

Okay, wait, I know I said that I have to go to bed, but, but Pass, pass that book over. Yes, because we didn't, we've, we've got to make sure we mentioned this. So, so you guys have put this thing together for businesses to actually onboard them, because that's a big challenge for the businesses. You have somebody go and they explain everything to them, and then they leave and they're like, Wait, how did we do this? How we did so tell us a little bit about this book and what it's being used for. Yeah.

Evelyn Lemus: 1:23:13

So the idea of this one, it is after the experience that we had in Berlin, like people always come and ask you the questions after you explain to them how to use a wallet, or the first time that you onboard people, you explained a lot of things that, of course, they will not remember. And so we came up with the idea on having kind of that explanation in a lot of the frequently asked questions that we get from people in one book, and this is basically explaining the way, or a simple way, those answers for them, where to if they need to withdraw money, where to cash it, how to transfer money from One wallet to another one, how to pay, how to use different wallets, how to save. There's a lot of questions that they ask. So that's the purpose, that to be a support for the merchant, but also for you that you're working on a circular economy. So whenever you get the questions, you give these to people. And there's also going to be some videos online, so if people don't want to read, they will also have the explanation in a video. So it's easy for the owners to send the videos or to give the staff this book so they can know how to use different wallets or how to assist the customers. I'm so glad you guys wrote this book, and I love how it's not just theory. This is in the real world from two people who have built one of the world leading circular economies. Is like, what have you encountered in the real world? These are the questions people have, yeah, and it's. To be in both English and Spanish. Yeah. So right now, we hope to have it ready for Plan B, or for before Plan B, because we're making some updates based on feedback that we received. And then, yeah, we're going to give away some copies, and it's going to be open source for anybody who wants to use it for their circular economy? And make any changes, it's going to be open source. And, yeah, so that's the idea to be helpful for people Perfect. Well, I love how earlier you said, Never stop learning. And there are so many resources out there now, for anybody who wants to build a circular economy, you don't have to do what Bitcoin beach Did you know, being the first one having to invent these things that nobody had ever even dreamed of. It's like the proven model exists. So just look at what works. Don't feel afraid to reach out there all these different Circular Economy projects. Yeah, if you're in El Salvador, you can meet a lot of them with the circular economy Summit. A lot will be in town. So come say hi. Feel free to reach out online and Long live Bitcoin as a medium of exchange.

Mike Peterson: 1:26:03

Awesome. Thank you guys. Thank you.