What Nobody Tells You About Starting a Bitcoin Wallet in El Salvador | Kevin Ayala, CEO Blink El Salvador

Would you trust Bitcoin and a Lightning Network digital wallet to rebuild your life in El Salvador after COVID destroyed your business and the banks turned away? Kevin Ayala (@KevinAyala24) did, and that choice runs through his whole story. He grew up training as a violinist in El Salvador's national orchestra, and he first heard about Bitcoin in 2009 from a high school teacher. He didn't have a credit card or access to an exchange, so he walked away from it more than once over the next decade, a reminder of how much friction used to stand between a person and true self-custody.

Then COVID hit. Kevin had just opened a computer and phone repair shop backed by a $30,000 family bank loan, and the lockdown shut it down within three months. He talks openly about carrying that debt with no income coming in, and about his parents refusing to make him feel guilty for it. The traditional financial system had given him a loan, but no way to keep earning against it once the doors closed.

Bitcoin is what got him back on his feet, and it happened outside the banking system entirely. Kevin started earning small amounts through freelance design and repair work, paid directly over the Lightning Network. He found the Bitcoin Beach Wallet, ran his own Lightning node, and built a habit of stacking sats one gig at a time in El Zonte, the town where this circular economy took root before most of the world had heard of it. A digital wallet with no bank attached became his entire income, and a crash course in financial literacy along the way.

From there, Kevin gets into teaching at the House of Bitcoin, co-founding Asobitcoin, and joining 40 Acres, an OTC desk for businesses named after a broken 19th century government promise. The 40 acres and a mule were taken back from the people who earned them. Bitcoin can't be taken back the same way. He talks about financial literacy spreading through El Zonte neighbor to neighbor, and how that kind of grassroots community building is the actual mechanism behind a working circular Bitcoin economy.

The episode closes with Kevin's current role as CEO of Blink Wallet for El Salvador, and this is where it gets uncomfortable for anyone who assumes legal tender status solved everything. He explains why Blink got debanked, what Stablesats actually is under the hood, and why regulators keep confusing sound tech innovation built on Bitcoin with the kind of risk they're used to policing. Kevin's stacking, building, and helping the next person do the same in a country where the banks still haven't caught up to the law. Subscribe, share this with someone who thinks they missed their window, and tell us in the comments, would you have trusted your parents' credit card with $10 of Bitcoin back in 2011?

—Bitcoin Beach Team

Learn more about Kevin Ayala:
X: https://x.com/KevinAyala24
X: https://x.com/40acres_sv
X: https://x.com/blinkbtc
Web: https://www.40acres.pro/
Web: https://www.blink.sv/

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Web: https://www.bitcoinbeach.com 

STAY AT BITCOIN BEACH:  https://www.stayatbitcoinbeach.com/punta-mango-villas

Browse through this quick guide to learn more about the episode:
00:00 Intro
01:38 Why couldn't people buy Bitcoin in 2009 without exchanges or credit cards?
05:18 Can you make a living as a musician in El Salvador?
07:25 How did COVID lockdowns destroy small businesses in El Salvador?
10:20 How to earn Bitcoin online through freelance work instead of buying it?
13:31 What is the Bitcoin Beach Wallet and how did it become Blink?
19:07 What is the House of Bitcoin and how does Asobitcoin support Bitcoin in El Salvador?
27:13 How do Bitcoiners network and find jobs in the Bitcoin industry?
32:41 What does 40 acres and a mule have to do with Bitcoin self-custody?
39:21 Why do banks close accounts of Bitcoin companies in El Salvador? 

Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

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Kevin Ayala: 0:00

I try to to build a brand of trust for people because one of the things I I have hated the most all the time is that I have found many people that wants to take advantage of of everyone right like and we need to build the community right It's not just about one people earning something it's about all the community keeping the the things ongoing, right? And it's not about me, right? It's about the entire people. One of my goals at the end is like, if I bring something to the community, it's for them to grow. This is what I'm what I'm doing right now. Basically, working hard for 40 acres and Blink, and we hope to have very good product in the future, and we're building that. We are in a kind of bear market right now, but we're still strong with philosophy, and and we know what what we need to do.

Mike Peterson: 1:22

Yeah, Kevin with us today in the studio. Kevin's a Salvadoran entrepreneur coming out of the tech space, and then early adopter of Bitcoin, and and now leading the the Blink team. So we're excited to have him here.

Kevin Ayala: 1:38

Yeah, thank you, Mike. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for the invite. I, I was always wanted to talk to you.

Mike Peterson: 1:48

Awesome. So give us a little bit about your your history, how you became interested in in Bitcoin, and kind of I know you're also involved in another company called 40 acres, I believe. So we'll kind of talk about your exposure to Bitcoin early on. You know, like a lot of us, it took you a while to actually like pull the trigger and and become an owner of Bitcoin, and then kind of what led to the current position that you're in.

Kevin Ayala: 2:17

Yeah, I was too young. Well, basically, it's funny story, and I think I met or realized about Bitcoin in 2009 And every time I say this, everyone asks me, "Oh, so you bought Bitcoin at that time? I was like, "I wish I was, but I was really young.

Mike Peterson: 2:38

Well, even at that time, it was almost. I mean, I don't think anybody bought Bitcoin at that time. You pretty much had to mine it.

Kevin Ayala: 2:43

Probably. Yeah, yeah. There was no exchanges there available, right? I was like 16 years old, and but I had a teacher at high school, and he was my computer teacher. He told me, "Hey, Kevin, I know you're very like curious all the time. I heard about a coin that is called like Bitcoin. Maybe you should just go and check what is it about. And I was studying English at the high school because that was my the specialist of the high school. And but I really didn't understand anything at that time. I kind of search and go like deep searching, but I really didn't understand, and so I was like, maybe later. I don't know. It's very difficult. Nothing in Spanish, also. Yeah. So it was very difficult to understand. Then I I was in university like two years later, and I saw Bitcoin like in I think one to $3 something like that, and I remember I said I want to buy something, and I will check again. Like I'll check this. I I have the feeling that this in the future will be like something what we use. Couldn't do it. No credit cards. No changes there. So I and I also didn't understand anything about mining. I didn't know that you couldn't mine. And funny thing, because I started to repair computers and cell phones like when I was like 15 years old, because we were not able to pay. So I had to go to YouTube and look for a lot of videos and how to do it yourself, right? Like preparing for dummies, stuff like that. So I wasn't university, couldn't do it. So I just like gave up. Like okay, so I cannot do anything. Three years later, four years later, I remember I asked my my parents,"Hey, can I use your credit card? Because I didn't have any credit card at the time. They say, "No, that's that's maybe maybe that's a scam or something. You don't know what are you doing. I mean, just $10 I was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no. They they they will rough our number credit card numbers. Like, okay, that's okay, no problem. So, but that. Time I was studying communications, the university and multimedia production. Then in my life, I always been a I've always been a musician. My mom is a musician, too. My father is a pastor, Christian pastor, and I always play music at church, but also,

Mike Peterson: 5:18

What do you what instruments do you play?

Kevin Ayala: 5:20

I play violin first. Violin, violin. Okay. Wow. I play drums, guitar, bass, and I sing.

Mike Peterson: 5:26

Wow. And you can be a one-man band.

Kevin Ayala: 5:30

Yeah. So that's because my mom was part of the national orchestra in El Salvador.

Mike Peterson: 5:35

Wow.

Kevin Ayala: 5:36

And then I I was part of the youth orchestra from like six years, and then I moved to the opera of El Salvador for six years too.

Mike Peterson: 5:44

Really, so I'm playing the violin or what?

Kevin Ayala: 5:46

I was playing the violin and singing as a turner.

Mike Peterson: 5:48

Okay,

Kevin Ayala: 5:49

Yeah. So my my job always was being musician. I was always playing in weddings and stuff like this, and at church obviously. But then I got my first like professional job, and I was giving lessons at a school. I was a musician teacher, like, and but I remember they told me that this is the highest you can earn here. Like you'll never earn more. It was like I was very disappointed, and I was like doing a lot of.

Mike Peterson: 6:20

It's hard to earn a living in music in in any country. Yes,

Kevin Ayala: 6:24

Yeah, and I was like, yeah, they are right. Yeah, yeah. So and I was not expecting to go to the national orchestra. I I love a lot of things more than just music.

Mike Peterson: 6:35

Yeah,

Kevin Ayala: 6:35

And I I love technology a lot. So I was like, I need to do something else.

Mike Peterson: 6:41

Hey guys, just reminder: the best way to really understand how Bitcoin is impacting El Salvador and what's happening here is to get some boots on the ground and come visit. And of course, we're excited now to have locations both in El Zonte and Punta Mango where we have guest homes there that you can rent. That everything can be done in Bitcoin. So we have the Bitcoin Beach Suites in El Zonte, and we have Punta Manga Villas in Punta Mango, and you can find all that on the Stay at Bitcoin Beach website. So make sure that you check that out, and if you're planning on coming down, make sure you're staying at a place where Bitcoin is going to be welcomed, and that you'll be surrounded by other Bitcoiners.

Kevin Ayala: 7:25

There was an opportunity for me to to begin my own business, repairing computers and cell phones, and I quit my job. I kind of traveled those days to to get some courses done for how to manage this this this business, and my family and I we we got a loan, a bank loan of like 30,030 $5,000 to begin the business, right? And this was in 2019, and when we were when we were incorporating the business and the company, I heard about COVID for the first time. I was like, oh yeah, another another illness, right? Another virus there, and I started. I opened the the repair shop on January 15 and 2020, and I could work just three months. Then in March I had to close, so maybe less than three months, and I had to close. And I remember that,

Mike Peterson: 8:34

Because the country shut down. Because,

Kevin Ayala: 8:35

Yeah, yeah, all the lockdown and everything. So I was very disappointed. We lost a lot of money, and imagine my anxiety that those days for my family and my parents, and I was like, "What? I don't know what to do. So, for some reason, I was available to to provide these services for people. They were sending this through like Google apps and stuff like this to my house, and I was preparing every day. Like that helps me a lot. I was like praying the Lord to to have some job to do, right? I don't know what to do right now, and that that stress that you you need to pay this this thing to the bank is very complicated, right? And see your family like they're supporting you, but you know it's kind of your fault, right? Like at the same time, you know I didn't know that this.

Mike Peterson: 9:26

Yeah, nobody, nobody was expecting COVID or or the way the government's reacted

Kevin Ayala: 9:31

We never saw that before.

Mike Peterson: 9:32

Yeah.

Kevin Ayala: 9:33

So I was like, I don't know what to do. So I was like, basically praying the Lord, like to to find a a way to to work again, and so I was providing this, and then I I came back to Bitcoin again. I was like I was checking what's going on with Bitcoin. I saw oh, it's pumping up a lot. Oh, maybe it's too it's too it's too it's too late to buy. And yeah, now there are exchanges, a lot of things. TikTok was having this bump of a lot of people talking about coins, shit coins, and stuff like this, and I was like,"Hey, maybe this is the maybe this is the way, right? You start to look for those coins and Bitcoin at the same time, and you get spam. You know the the normal way of the of the beginner.

Mike Peterson: 10:20

Yeah,

Kevin Ayala: 10:21

I was I was expecting to trade Bitcoin at the same time. Was like maybe I can trade Bitcoin or something else or other coins that are having these big bombs and dumps and everything. And that's how I went back to Bitcoin. Maybe not in the in the best in the best way, but that makes me start to deep, to to deep search a lot of the information of Bitcoin. At a time, I I was speaking better English. I was understanding better. I I kind of translate some people from America at church, so that helped me a lot, right? Giving context and everything, and then all the manuals when you're printing everything is in English, so it helped me a lot on that. So I start to understand Bitcoin a little bit different. I don't say that I understand it completely now. I think I think nobody understands it 100% but I start to understand, right? And then I saw that there's a possibility for me to receive payments in Bitcoin during the the time. So I provide some remote assistant for some people around the world, like the computer, and was fixing some stuff for them, designing things.

Mike Peterson: 11:37

And they were paying you in Bitcoin.

Kevin Ayala: 11:38

They were paying. They start to pay me in Bitcoin, right? But at the same time, I remember sometimes they the Bitcoin never came to to the wallet. I was like, okay, don't know what happened. But after that, that and in that in that year, I remember that someone told me about Bitcoin Beach Wallet, and you know Renato, right? Renato Salazar. Yeah, he's a friend of mine. We worked together like 12 years ago in one thing of the government. I was doing also multimedia stuff in in that conference, and I remember he discussed about in that conference someone talk about Bitcoin and also someone talk about Ethereum. I think, and I was like kind of interest, but I was very busy on the conference, so I I didn't do anything. But I remember Rinato told me that he was working on a project, so I got interest and I got the wallet and I saw that the for the first time Lightning Network. So I was trying to provide people, okay, maybe you can pay me in lightning, and I saw this in Twitter and X. I saw Spaces, people that was like giving you sats just because you were joining their their Spaces and stuff like this. A little task of designing something, changing a logo, editing a little video, stuff like this. Yeah. So I started to do that like every day, I started to earn sats that way, and I was using Bitcoin Beach Wallet, and and also Wallet of Satoshi. And I was like, oh, why why is there a lot of wallets here? I was finding out that there was a lot of wallets. Then I realized that I can have my own node. Then I was trying to do my Bitcoin node. I have my Lightning node. I was earning and and learning curses about Lightning.

Mike Peterson: 13:31

And just for reference, for people that are listening, that that are maybe haven't been here since the beginning, the the the Bitcoin Beach wallet was the precursor to to blink. Yeah, was the wallet was actually developed for the Bitcoin Beach project, and they kind of used that as the the testing grounds. And then as they you know were rolling out the the wallet as more of a commercial venture, changed the name just so there was some distinction between the the Bitcoin Beach you know grassroots project and the the commercial wallet.

Kevin Ayala: 14:02

It's good to explain that, so no, so nobody get confused. Yeah. So one of the things I think one of the most interesting things at that time is like I saw the project for Bitcoin Beach and I saw how the community was changing. I I came to El Santa many times before, and since the project started, I have seen how the community changed a lot, and I was very amazed about that. And imagine, I'm talking about 2020, 2021, yeah. And these last five years, everything has changed a lot. So, was very happy to use that. And a friend of mine also was very into Bitcoin. He got some sats from people from fans. They were gay gay fans. I don't know Geyser Fund, but it was not that name. I think it was another company. I was asking for people to to give some donations because he wanted to study computer computer. Science and he didn't have the funds, and someone, for some reason, just sent him like $500 to buy his first computer. So he was telling me, "Hey, I just got this Bitcoin here, and just moving it out from this Moon wallet to Bitcoin Beach wallet, and I didn't know this Lightning existed. So I didn't know that Lightning existed too, so I start to dig more. Right then, 2021. I remember Paxful. Yes, Paxful came to El Salvador and they they started the house of Bitcoin. They were giving a lot of lessons and they were giving some sats in their in their wallet too when you when you sign up for the for the wallet,

Mike Peterson: 15:44

So just a little history on that. I helped Ray make his first lightning transaction here in in El Zonte. Crazy Ray, we love Ray, even though he's kind of gone off the rails with all the shit coins. But but yeah, Ray was was here early on, and he used Lightning for the first time here in El Zonte.

Kevin Ayala: 16:04

Was that in 2021?

Mike Peterson: 16:06

I it might have been even before that. I can't remember the exact date, but I was like, "What do you mean? You're in the Bitcoin space and you've never used Lightning before? And then they rolled it out on Paxful like shortly after. They once he saw how easy it was, he was like,

Kevin Ayala: 16:19

That's a very fun fact because when I came to the community and when I learned lining and everything, years after I saw that a lot of people never heard about Lightning. I was like, so that's very interesting. I remember you mentioned that in another podcast.

Mike Peterson: 16:35

Well, there was you know there was a lot of like OG Bitcoiners that had been in the space way longer than I had, and they they come to El Salvador, and you realize they've never done you know they they've never done lightning transactions. Peter McCormick did his first lightning purchase here in El Zonte, yeah, at at Mama Rosas, and yeah, and so it's I think for a lot of people, actually CC from Binance, when he came here, he wanted to buy a coffee, and he's like, "Well, can I use what is their shit coin that they have there? BNB and we're like, "No, you got to use you got to use Lightning, and he didn't even have Lightning on his. Well, so I had to buy his coffee for him. So it was, but yeah. So it's it's crazy how this little town of El Zonte played a huge role in really like catapulting the Lightning infrastructure forward because of what happened here and then El Salvador adopting Bitcoin as legal tender. A lot of funds started flowing in the Lightning companies. Lightning Labs was able to do a huge raise. There was this huge expansion, you know, a lot of it driven by El Salvador's adoption of Bitcoin. So it's crazy how this little town of El Zonte played that role.

Kevin Ayala: 17:54

I think the impact that this little town has given to the world is incredible. Yeah, it's like a little place with a lot of things happening inside, and it's crazy. I mean, I I don't have words, and you've been here working on the on this on this project, so you obviously you know. But it's funny because I I remember that a lot of OGs in the conferences when I when I went to my first conference, someone asked me like, "Can I pay you in Bitcoin? Yes, yes, it's Bitcoin conference. So Lightning or Unchained? What is Lightning? I don't have that shitcoin. I was like, no, no, no, no. Lightning is the network, and I he never knew or heard about Lightning too. So I was like, okay, I explained to you, lining is like a layer two of Bitcoin, and he stayed there like for 30 minutes for my explanation. Was very funny, and he ended downloading some wallet. I I don't remember which one was because it was in the United States, so Bitcoin, which was not allowed there. So, well, just to go back to 2021, Paxville opened this house of Bitcoin. I wanted to get the diploma from them.

Mike Peterson: 19:07

Yeah, they had a cool like building that they rented out. That was great. It was kind of the hub for a long time. It was the in San Salvador. It was the hub for Bitcoiners to kind of congregate.

Kevin Ayala: 19:18

And it was very close for me, like 15 minutes to get there, so I was like after after work I was going there and check what's what's going on today. Like, and I remember that I was I almost got a gift from from a Bitcoiner that came to give a conference there, and it was going to be my first hardware wallet, but at the end the number was different, so I was like, ah, I didn't get it. But that that's okay. It was very funny time.

Mike Peterson: 19:46

Yeah.

Kevin Ayala: 19:46

And the first lesson I went there, wanted to get a diploma. I don't know if you remember Carlos Panago. He was giving me the first lesson, and I was asking many. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was asking many things like to him, and he said, hey. You seem to be know you you seem to know more than we expected. So a couple of days later, he called me and said,"Hey, are you interested in giving some lessons? And I was like, "Yeah, what for? What should I teach? I said, "No, I don't know. Think about something. So I started a lesson in the house of Bitcoin call, how to earn sats online, and some people were coming to that to those lessons, and they were asking me how to do it. I was like, there are some games you can earn, some tasks you can go and check. People asking for designing or multimedia stuff. So, yeah, that's what I was doing. I was like stacking every day on this task. Then,

Mike Peterson: 20:43

Will was working for Pax Fix too, wasn't he?

Kevin Ayala: 20:46

I was going to mention him just now. Yeah, that he was there, like, and I was going. They they offer me a job for PR, and what happened is that the the the week I was going to be higher, Paxful decided not to continue anymore.

Mike Peterson: 21:06

Yeah, I think that's when they were starting to have their challenges there in the dispute between the two founders.

Kevin Ayala: 21:12

You know Renata too, right?

Mike Peterson: 21:13

Yeah,

Kevin Ayala: 21:14

I was talking to her, and the last call was like,

Mike Peterson: 21:16

I love Renata. She's great.

Kevin Ayala: 21:18

Yeah, she's very nice. I think so. It was funny, like okay, no problem. I'll keep doing my stuff. Like then the house closed, right, and they had to move. So two months later, I think Steve or Will called me and they they asked me if I want to be a part of the house of Bitcoin because they move. So I was just taking care of the house and the offices. I was giving still giving some lessons, preparing some workshops or meetings and stuff like this, and and after that, that's also Bitcoin started right in 2023 January. Will also ask me would like,

Mike Peterson: 21:57

Which those of you that don't know. Also, Bitcoin is kind of was a what would you call it?

Kevin Ayala: 22:05

Like Bitcoin Association,

Mike Peterson: 22:06

Association, yeah, of different like people in the Bitcoin space. So like lawyers are familiar with Bitcoin, businesses that you know there was different exchanges that are here in El Salvador that are part of it, and so it was really kind of formed to like advocate for Bitcoin in El Salvador,

Kevin Ayala: 22:22

Correctly, and basically that was how how it started. The first workshops that we had in Aso Bitcoin were directly about the law, right? Funny fact, just going back to 2021. My fiance, my fiance's birthday is September 7 when the law came into El Salvador, so it's funny because all that there's sometimes there's a lot of meetings, right? Yeah, yeah. But I have I have the dinner with her. Smart man, smart man. So I I never I never lost that. It was like like a sign for me, like oh something is connecting here. So yeah, then. Then I've been helping Aso Bitcoin since 2023. I'm still helping them, and we have made a lot of things.

Mike Peterson: 23:11

And I think we have some some pictures possible. You can pull up from from some of the conferences, the the booths that that also Bitcoin. You got Stacy and Max there with with the group. We have people from Node Man. Yeah, a lot of a lot of people that've been on this podcast.

Kevin Ayala: 23:28

Cherito.

Mike Peterson: 23:28

Yeah, yeah, in there.

Kevin Ayala: 23:30

So you might know him, right?

Mike Peterson: 23:32

Yeah, yeah. We just had him. We just did a podcast with him last week. So yeah,

Kevin Ayala: 23:37

Yeah. This one was in Nashville, 2024 Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 23:41

Okay.

Kevin Ayala: 23:41

Yeah. Yeah,

Mike Peterson: 23:42

And then this is an Adopting Bitcoin.

Kevin Ayala: 23:47

Adopting Bitcoin 2024 too. Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 23:49

Okay.

Kevin Ayala: 23:50

Yes, this is Bitcoin story for 2025

Mike Peterson: 23:53

Okay. Yeah.

Kevin Ayala: 23:56

And this is this is Miami in Bitcoin Conference 2023.

Mike Peterson: 24:03

2023. Okay. Yeah, I remember we had they had the El Salvador booth there, and it was the you know the the year after that that they made the the big announcement. I think it was two years after. I can't. Yeah, two years after. Two years after. Yeah, but I remember it was like one of the most popular booths in the whole conference.

Kevin Ayala: 24:21

2023 It was crazy. I was there.

Mike Peterson: 24:23

Nonstop.

Kevin Ayala: 24:24

Yeah, we didn't stop. So I was there at 8 a.m. Just putting my stuff there, and my conversations ended like at 7 p.m. because people were staying there.

Mike Peterson: 24:35

No, I think...

Kevin Ayala: 24:35

It's very crowded.

Mike Peterson: 24:37

Bitcoin Magazine, you guys dropped the ball by not having an El Salvador booth there this year. Yeah, yeah. We expect to see an El Salvador booth there next year.

Kevin Ayala: 24:46

So that was a team that went went from El Salvador, and then the other one. This is the Swan Conference in Los Angeles. Yeah, in L.A. The Pacific Bitcoin, yeah, yeah. So I was, we were also helping Edgar Borja from K1

Mike Peterson: 25:06

See K1 there?

Kevin Ayala: 25:08

Yeah, yeah. So we we got those incredible shirts. A lot of people were asking us to to sell them.

Mike Peterson: 25:18

Collectors' items. Yeah,

Kevin Ayala: 25:19

Yeah. So basically, Miami was my first Bitcoin conference experience. It was so good. I remember I was very excited, and my head was like bumping. Like I don't know how what am I doing here, but this is great. Like everything I was thinking on 2020. Remember three years before that, I never think I was going to be a part of of this community like this.

Mike Peterson: 25:44

For those of you that are that are listening rather than watching, we're just we're filtering through some pictures of the the group near the conference. Yeah. Just so that makes sense for you. And this was at Plan B, right?

Kevin Ayala: 25:56

This is the summit here in El Zonte in January this year. Yes.

Mike Peterson: 26:00

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I recognize that. That's the Circular Bitcoin Economy that we get here in El Zonte.

Kevin Ayala: 26:06

That's here in El Zonte. We're going to talk about that in a in a few seconds. But yeah, it's it's been a it's been six years of incredible experiences around Bitcoin directly connected my life into Bitcoin and philosophy and community. One of the big changes in my life also was because of Bitcoin too. As I told you at the beginning, I lost a lot of money, right? And with the business, I tried to yeah. But thanks thanks to God first, and then thanks to this opportunity with Bitcoin, we were allowed with my family to to basically pay the loan, and and we are free about that now. Wow! But it was very, it was I had to say like I'm very thankful with my parents that they never were like just how do you say that? Like I'm the guilty guy of this. Yeah, you are guilty because we're miserable now. They they they were all the time very supportive, and that helped me a lot.

Mike Peterson: 27:13

Well, that's pretty incredible. The the you know you had that that bad timing of when you open, but you were still able to to pay back the loan.

Kevin Ayala: 27:20

One of the things they they taught me a lot. It was like, you know, money can be done again. Like you can earn money again, your life not. So please don't go and kill yourself. My dad was like, please don't kill yourself. Yes, we will support you as as much as we can. You do your your your your part. Yeah. So I was providing my cat there. After that, one of the incredible things happened. I have met a lot of incredible people. One of these incredible people is Lucas. Lucas Dutchko. I met Lucas in 2022 because of a cat history. Yes, the cat stores cat. I remember that I was listening a lot his space in in in Twitter, the global Bitcoin fest.

Mike Peterson: 28:09

Yeah,

Kevin Ayala: 28:09

And I earned some sats by by listening that, and they were like giving this, doing these raffles every in every space, and I remember one time he he came to Ensabu, and I wanted to go to his conference because he was going to be at at Cadejo, I think, or something. And I got I got sick those days, so I I wasn't available. I was just want to meet him and and say thank you because he helped a lot to understand about Bitcoin for me in in Twitter. Obviously, he didn't know me. Really, I was-I never met him before. But then I saw that three months later, he posted one thing in Twitter about a cat, and I was like, "Maybe I can help you. And he was like,"Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and start to talk to me, and we met here in Atami. And at the beginning, I was telling Paco minutes ago that at the beginning I was like I don't know because the culture in El Salvador, you know, we were always like taking care of who are you meeting today. Yeah, yeah. I was like, should I go? Should I? But I think I never told him that.

Mike Peterson: 29:17

Well, I don't know that that cat actually came from right next door. He was staying renting the house from our neighbors at that time, and that's when he adopted.

Kevin Ayala: 29:25

That's correct. That's correct. So he told me that he he needed to leave. Right, they he stay here like for three months.

Mike Peterson: 29:33

Well, we're supposed to yeah we're supposed to leave earlier, and he's like, I can't leave. I have this cat. I was like, what?

Kevin Ayala: 29:37

Yeah, I I was like, why?

Mike Peterson: 29:42

It's like, no, I adopted this cat that only has one eye and this and that.

Kevin Ayala: 29:48

Yeah, he was fighting every every every day. So I came to to the house that he was renting, and we met. We discussed about Bitcoin, and then and and then we went to get some pupusas also. And he asked me, "Hey, so are you going to help me? And yes, yes, I'm looking for someone. I'm not very into cats, and right now I'm living with my parents, and I don't have a space for animals. But let me check who. And I have a cousin that she loves cats, and I was asking her, but for some reason at that time she was not available to have another one. Then with he found a guy, a Japanese guy who was going to take the cat, and at the end he couldn't. Leroy was the name of the cat, and he got lost. And so yeah, there's no cat anymore, so he was going to leave. And two or three days later, he called me back again. Hey Kevin, the cat came back. I need you to have it in your house. And I was like, I don't know if I can have it. And I went to my parents and asked them, Hey, so I just met a friend, and he wants me to ask you if we can have his cat in the house. And they were like, Why? And but at the end, they they they they gave me the permission to do it, and Lucas bring some stuff to the house. Like we had to to put some some fence there for for him. He was he was screwed up. Like Leroy was, I don't know, he fight with someone, and he he didn't look really great, yeah. But we ended talking a lot because of the cat, and and our friendship was because of that at the beginning. And Lukas has helped me a lot on mentoring me many things. He was like, "Hey, Kevin, I think you are good on this. Maybe you need to learn this, and maybe you need to do that, and so at the same time, I was doing some OTCs for people at my community. I used to have an orange car, Chevrolet car, and it was orange. I bought that car in 2017. For some reason, it was orange. I never printed or something, but everyone at the community was like, oh, Kevin is is there, and I and I have a little sticker of Bitcoin in the front, so it was the Bitcoin car. But yeah, it was giving me a lot of problems lately, so I had to sell it. But it was funny because it was like kind of connected. Yeah, it's at some point or some way like big coincidence. So I was doing these little alts for people, and then was working with the association. I was still repairing things, and next year I think at the end of 2020-three I met Francesco Bivoli. He's my current boss at 40 Acres.

Mike Peterson: 32:41

Okay,

Kevin Ayala: 32:41

And Lucas also met him, I think in Dubai, in January 2024, and Lucas called me. Hey, you know I met a friend, and and he wants to incorporate a company in El Salvador that is called 40 Acres. Maybe you should you should talk to him, and he's looking for someone who can rely on, and I think you're good for that. And so we went into the conversation. Funny story that Francesco and I met three months before here in El Zonte too.

Mike Peterson: 33:12

Oh really?

Kevin Ayala: 33:12

Yeah, we came to to the Bitcoin Beach dinner at that time. I came because I was working with a school of Bitcoin.

Mike Peterson: 33:24

Okay,

Kevin Ayala: 33:25

I still help him, but I was working directly on translating everything from English to Spanish and doing some multimedia. And we met Francesco at that time. And then in January, Lucas told me, "Hey, I have this friend, right? And he put me in the same group in Signal, and then we realized we just met before. And Francesco, this is too much coincidence, right? You know, like when do you start? So I start working for 40 acres on March.

Mike Peterson: 33:51

And what is 40 acres?

Kevin Ayala: 33:53

So 40 acres is an OTC desk.

Mike Peterson: 33:55

Okay.

Kevin Ayala: 33:57

We,

Mike Peterson: 33:57

Where does the name 40 acres come from?

Kevin Ayala: 34:00

I knew you were going to ask about, so I hope I hope I don't say anything wrong. But do you remember the cessation, slavery cessation in in 18 centuries? The the government,

Mike Peterson: 34:12

40 acres and a mule.

Kevin Ayala: 34:13

The 40 acres and a mule.

Mike Peterson: 34:15

Yeah,

Kevin Ayala: 34:15

They promised this to these these people, right? And they were giving them the 40 acres and one mule to work, but after some months or years after, they they didn't really keep the promise. Yeah, and less than the 25% of the people who receive it, all the lands were taken back to the government or to the previous landlord. So the idea is that Bitcoin provides this promise. You can keep this promise. Bitcoin is your land or your mill. Maybe it depends on how you use it, but the promise is still there, and you don't have to rely on anyone. Just that you have it, right? So we try like the brand is like that, right? Like that's why the name is 40 Acres.

Mike Peterson: 35:02

Okay, and so so it's an OTC desk for Salvadorans that are looking to to buy or sell bitcoins.

Kevin Ayala: 35:08

It's an OTC desk for all the businesses, basically. Okay, it's directed more mostly to businesses. Okay, in this case, so I was the first employee because. Because the company was incorporated like two weeks before I started, so I I think 40 Acres has been like my university on on running a business as an entrepreneur. Like it's it's not mine directly, but it's like my baby, right? Because I've been working here for 40 acres in Ensemble, and going through these licenses and BCR license, that's kind of easy. But then you have seen a license, and obviously you need to provide. You're looking for liquidity, but you don't receive any liquidity if you don't have the license. So all the things I never, I never do policies in my life or review contracts and stuff like this? Maybe I did, but not like at this at this at that level. Yeah, yeah, at that level, high level. So at the beginning was like freaking out. Like I don't know what to do. And and the funny thing is, I at the at the same time as I was working with K1 part time job helping Edgar doing some research for the, for the, for the little ATM for the K1 mini, and I started as a part-time job, but then the the work was a lot, right? So they asked me to go like full-time. Okay, it's okay, I'll do it, and I was doing full time for I40 Acres and some hours for K1, but then I was it wasn't wasn't possible for me. It was too much. I was didn't understand many things, so I need to to read and focus. So I was keeping also I've been keeping helping as a Bitcoin and also reviewing these things from a school of Bitcoin, so basically everything I do is is around Bitcoin. The only thing is not around Bitcoin is maybe that I repair stuff for people, but at the same time, I prefer to get it paid in Bitcoin. So yeah, it's the same thing for me, right? And then 2024 with 40 acres. 2025 also 40 acres. I still with 40 acres too, but then at the end of 2025, I receive a call from Lucas. Right, Lucas got the the role in Blink Wallet as the CEO, global CEO from Blink Wallet. Right, and he called me that last year Blink was having some problems the the second semester, and he called me like I think it was two days before the end of the year, two or three days before, and he said, "Hey, Kevin, I need some help here with Blink. I was like, "Wow, what what happened? It's like, "Yes, we're having some problems, and we're restructuring the company, and and I need someone to rely on. I need someone reliable. So I need your help. Can you please help? I was like, yeah, but call Francesco and ask him if if I can do it, because you know I have more time. I already have. I don't want problems. Yeah. So he called him. I talked to him. He said, "Yeah, yes, as long as this don't affect like 40 acres, right? I'm being very honest on this and very transparent because I think that's the way the best way to do this, right? So, yeah, he they agree that that's okay, and I've been helping Blink as a CEO for El Salvo since January, last year Bling had some difficulties on the OTC operations that they were having since the Banque Potecario basically closed the account. Yeah, and obviously we're in the process of getting these funds back, or what happened with the account, but you know, this is the tough thing, right? Like sometimes some things happen, and we need different like licenses sometimes, or the bank just have different view of what your operations are.

Mike Peterson: 39:21

I mean, the banks here are horrible to deal with in general, and if you have a business related to Bitcoin, they automatically put you on the blacklist. Completely, that's what we were told as we started Grupo Bitcoin Beach to to run the guest house operations that we were open up, like focus on Bitcoiners, and they told us that directly. No, the fact that you have Bitcoin in your name puts you on the blacklist originally, like right off the bat.

Kevin Ayala: 39:47

It's it's been very difficult. Yeah. Also for 40 acres, it's the same thing. Like we have been like dealing to get their bank account for like two years. We we finally got one, but it was very difficult. Yeah. And then this is the the thing that I was telling Luke. Like there's a lot of things we need to fix here. We need to clean a lot of things, and then we got an audit also at the same time, like 322 months ago. So I got like this a lot of things coming to blink, and I think we are now in the process of going in a in a good path, we hope to to get the operations back for for OTC for,

Mike Peterson: 40:29

For the OTC yeah,

Kevin Ayala: 40:30

For the OTC operation

Mike Peterson: 40:30

Yeah it hasn't affected the wallet and the use of that all that's been been but I know they had to to temporarily shut down the OTC and,

Kevin Ayala: 40:38

You know the our philosophy in Blink is like Bitcoin, Bitcoin only, right? We're not going to deal with anything else, and but you know we have this product of stable Sats, and a lot of people think it's this is a token or another stable coin, but it's still Bitcoin, and so explaining this to the regulators is is a bit complicated, right? Yeah, it's not a token. This is not something that you just stand like this. This is a product inside, right? Like this token doesn't go to another exchange or other wallet. It's only internal. So explain this to them is a bit difficult because they are requesting us to have another license stuff like this. But I think we have found a partner that probably will announce soon for Blink to to recover these operations for obviously for Salvadorians. But I think we will probably be available to serve other jurisdictions at the same time. So that's how I got involved with Blink too. Yeah. Funny thing, I always use the B because my second name is Bernabé, and basically many of my previous logos were always with B. Okay. So it makes sense with Bitcoin and Blink. Yeah. It's it's funny funny thing for me, and I think that's how my journey with Bitcoin has been. I try to I try to to build a brand of trust for people because one of the things I I have hated the most all the time is that I have found many people that wants to take advantage of of everyone right like and we need to build a community, right? It's not just about one people earning something. It's about all the community keeping the the things ongoing. Yeah, and it's not about me, right? It's about the entire people. One of my goals at the end is like, if I bring something to the community, it's for them to grow. I have the vision also that we are going to bring other communities like El Zonte to other places in El Salvador. For now, the time is not allowing me to do that, but hopefully in the future. But this is what I'm what I'm doing right now. Basically, working hard for 40 acres and Blink, and we hope to have very good product in the future. And we're building that. We are in a kind of bear market right now, but we're still strong with philosophy, and and we know what what we need to do with everything.

Mike Peterson: 43:19

I think one of the things I love most about the Blink wallet is it's for most Circular Bitcoin Economies around the world, it is their default wallet because it was built for the you know really for the poor for the people that that you know been locked out of the traditional banking system and and so it was made they did a lot of like on the ground testing with different things to make sure that this would work with all kinds of different levels of phones, and you know work in a way that that people even with not a lot of education could,

Kevin Ayala: 43:54

Completely,

Mike Peterson: 43:54

Very easily understand. And so we still see most of the circular Bitcoin economies we're working with around the world. They they primarily use Blink.

Kevin Ayala: 44:02

Yeah, well, I think one of the reflections I have, for example, is like I've seen a lot of people saying me or telling me I'm not very like technologic and I don't know how to use to use phones the way you use. And I I told them you don't need to do or know that. It's like come and I'll teach you, and because there are some people that is not very technological, right? Yeah. But at the beginning, it looks like a big gap for them. But then they realize this is something that is becoming natural, right? Like as I said at the beginning, I have some students. They were they were asking me about Bitcoin because they realize they can buy some stuff for Free Fire, yeah, and paper fail, something like that. So I was teaching them how to use the the Blink Wallet for.

Mike Peterson: 44:49

So for for people outside of El Salvador, Free Fire was I don't know if it's still, but at one time it was a super popular mobile game for people. It was. Kind of, it was kind of a ripoff of what's the one,

Kevin Ayala: 45:04

That was kind of a like Call of Duty or,

Mike Peterson: 45:08

Yeah or were there some other game that was super popular around the world. What was it?

Kevin Ayala: 45:12

Puff, Puff, P O B. I don't know.

Mike Peterson: 45:16

Yeah, I can't remember what it was, but yeah, Free Fire was like the funny story. I actually had the the guys from Bit Refill call me in a panic, and they're like, "We think we're being hacked because we have 1000s of orders for these Free Fire gift cards that are being bought on Bit Refill. I'm like, "No, you're not being hacked. These are just people that that Strike at that time was doing like $10 worth of Bitcoin if you signed signed up for an account. So all these people were signing up, and then they were using their Bitcoin to buy these Free Fire cards.

Kevin Ayala: 45:52

I have a friend that I think he spent like $600 in Bitcoin is to buy buying cards in Bit Refill, and at the beginning he didn't understand how to do it. He was calling me like at 10 p.m. Hey Kevin, I need another gift card for for free fire. I'm sending this to you. Can you buy it with Bitcoin? There's a promotion today or something like that. Yeah, was very funny. So for for for kids, like it's becoming like natural.

Mike Peterson: 46:17

Well, and for so many Salvadorian kids, they never had access before because most of them, their families don't have credit cards or any other way that they could do these in-app purchases. So this like opened this whole new world to them. For the first time, they had access to be able to you know buy stuff within the the game.

Kevin Ayala: 46:38

Yeah, no, I what I was. I've been looking this this last five years. It's like this gap is becoming shorter. Like like it's not that big right now. But one one of the things we need to do is that to understand that some people is not using it because they feel that it's very complicated. So I think Blink provides this easy way to to use it, yeah. And I've seen that they they really like how how it works and everything. So I think we need to keep that like for communities, as you said. Is I think a Blinky wallet is is has been created for communities, and it's very interesting the philosophy and everything that we have, so we hope that we are going to continue all this, and we are be still pushing to get these operations back into Salvor. And yeah, I'm asking for advice on many people, right? Like, what do you think about, and what do you think it needs? Yeah, and how we can support you better. How what we can change to to give you better like UX or UI experience, right? But most most than that is like we keep the philosophy and don't lose it, and we keep ourselves learning and helping helping everybody. I think that's the best way to live.

Mike Peterson: 48:00

Yeah, so what what are what are you most excited about at Blink? Like that as you've come into this role, what's what's kind of your main focus right now?

Kevin Ayala: 48:10

So my my main focus right now basically is we just finished these audits and things, and we had to change many things inside. As distractions, yeah, basically all the distractions and noise inside, we have been taking care of them, and right now my focus is on get the operations back with this spawner that we're going to have. And if everything works well, soon we will have OTC operations back into Blink Wallet for sub other ends and other jurisdictions. And after that, we have some other products that we probably will be available to use if we get recovered. Yeah, we recover these operations, but I'm excited to see this again. I'm going to be one of the first ones, first ones testing this again. And I remember that when I when I started using Blink, I was sending a lot of information about how was working. I remember I told the team from Blink and Lucas, having this problem here and had this other problem here. I see this issue here. Was just sharing because I remember at 2022 I was testing every wallet every day, like and found many many things. And Blink is has been always the, I think the best one in this in this scenario.

Mike Peterson: 49:25

Yeah, definitely the usability of it.

Kevin Ayala: 49:27

Yeah, completely agree.

Mike Peterson: 49:28

No, I love I love the fact that you've kind of on this journey and that now you're you're leading the blink operations here to see, just kind of the homegrown talent in El Salvador coming up. We've had opportunities to interview a lot of people lately that are Salvadoran entrepreneurs, and so that's one of the things that excites me most about Bitcoin adoption here is just the opportunity it's creating for, for the you know for the local young you know primarily younger entrepreneurs.

Kevin Ayala: 49:57

Yeah, I think when when I came to Bitcoin. It's funny because I was called as a weird person, right? I was talking about too much about Bitcoin. Yeah, I remember many friends of mine. They were like,"Hey, get get a job, man! Like, and one one like maybe last last thing. I remember like 10 years ago, someone was teaching. teaching me some about software and coding, and I asked him about Bitcoin, and he said, "You know, you need to become a software engineer to understand Bitcoin, and you are not. So I was like, "Okay, and and I thought maybe he's right. Like it's very complicated. 10 years later, he called me once and said, "Hey, when do I buy? I was like, "I'm not a software engineer. I bought like five years ago or more than that. And I was like, "It's not that you need to be like super impressive in coding or stuff like this. Like, I think what what you need to do is to action yourself to do something and learn directly, you will make mistakes. Obviously, I make mistakes all the time, but I understand that every mistake I I make is helping me to do things better.

Mike Peterson: 51:14

Yeah, learning opportunity.

Kevin Ayala: 51:15

Yeah, so I see I see this that way, and I'm very glad that I have had the opportunity from 40 Acres to learn a lot, and also now with Blink. As I said, I continue with both of them. I'm full time with 40 Acres and helping Blink directly as a CEO. And I think is I'm very fortunate to to have this opportunity. I'm not like a very public person. I'm not very good at. It's funny. I'm a communicator. That's my bachelor degree, but I'm not very good at that. Like I think I'm not like an impressive person to follow up in Twitter or something. But I'm trying to go and understand people and and try to understand how to help them. I think I go on more and check things, and and I see like gaps or spaces where something is not working good. So that's how I go and help and say, okay, I see this here. Maybe sometimes I don't send anything at all, and then I realize, oh, here's some problem that we can solve this way. That's what I want to do, also for the community and for Blink too.

Mike Peterson: 52:24

Awesome, awesome. Well, where where can people if if there if there's people that are they're interested in finding out more about 40 Acres, where where can they find out that information? Where can they follow you on Twitter? What's the the best way people to if they want to reach out to you to get a hold of you.

Kevin Ayala: 52:40

Yeah. So my Twitter is Kevin Ayala underscore 24 and for 40 acres we have a website called 40Acres.Pro.

Mike Peterson: 52:49

Dot what?

Kevin Ayala: 52:49

Dot Pro. Dot Pro. Yeah. Dot Pro, and with Blink, you know, blink.sv Yeah. And if any company is interested in getting some OTC for businesses directly. We they can contact me directly on Twitter or contact us directly from the website, and we we can check what we can offer to them. And Blink Wallet, and you also can ask me if I have any problem or something. I can support you here in El Salvador.

Mike Peterson: 53:18

Awesome. Yeah. Well, appreciate you coming on, Kevin, and yeah, we'll have to have you back on next year and get get updates on all the things happening with Blink.

Kevin Ayala: 53:26

Completely, I hope maturing more and more every month. So I'll bring some new stuff next time. Awesome, thank you so much.