El Salvador's Bitcoin Dream vs. Reality: What Entrepreneurs Actually Find When They Arrive | Michael Ruiz & Luis Esparragoza of Build in El Salvador

Would you sell everything and move to El Salvador, or is that just a Bitcoin fantasy? The founders of Build in El Salvador (@BuildInES) reveal why Bitcoin expats thrive or quit. In this episode, Mike Peterson sits down with Michael Ruiz and Luis Esparragoza, whose community helps startup founders and Bitcoiners relocate, connect, and build businesses in one of the most talked-about emerging markets in the world. Plenty of Bitcoiners arrive full of excitement, and some pack up and leave within months. This conversation digs into why, and what separates the ones who stay.

The episode opens with a story most people only saw from the outside. Michael's former business partner at Sovereignty Studios gave up everything to move to El Salvador, hit a wall, and left with a viral rant so heated that President @nayibbukele himself responded. Michael shares what really happened behind that public exit, why he calls it a genuine loss of talent for the country, and how watching a friend rage quit shaped everything he built afterward.

That "everything" became Build in El Salvador, which started as a humble Substack where Michael and Luis interviewed local entrepreneurs, including one who changed his name to Papusa, bought a million dollar passport, and now farms avocados in Santa Ana. The writing grew into a community of over 100 entrepreneurs connected through masterminds, roundtables, and a WhatsApp group, a business networking layer for the whole expat scene. When one member sliced his eye with a saw, the local community had a trusted doctor recommendation in his hands within a minute. That kind of support is what keeps talent in the country when things get hard.

Michael and Luis are also brutally honest about who should stay home. El Salvador has huge first mover advantages, and it also has rough edges, language barriers, and antiquated systems that will break you if you arrive expecting Dubai. Thriving there takes a specific entrepreneur mindset: a low time preference, a willingness to build through discomfort, and the humility to ask a community for help. If your plan is margaritas on the beach while the opportunity finds you, this episode will probably talk you out of the move, and that might be the most valuable thing it does.

The conversation closes with two developments worth knowing about. El Salvador residency rules changed in 2026, and temporary residents now need only 90 days per year in the country instead of nine months, a huge shift for podcasters, founders, and anyone who travels for work. And the guests recap the SovAI Summit, where about 25 Build in El Salvador members attended and Michael interviewed speakers at the National Palace as the country positions itself as a first mover in sovereign AI.

If this episode helped you, subscribe, share it with a friend who keeps threatening to move, and tell us in the comments: would you get on the one-way ticket?


—Bitcoin Beach Team


Learn more about Build in El Salvador:
Website: https://buildinelsalvador.com
Twitter/X: https://x.com/BuildInES
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Buildinelsalvador
Substack: https://buildinelsalvador.substack.com
Skool community (free): https://www.skool.com/build-in-el-salvador-2170/about


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Browse through this quick guide to learn more about the episode:
00:00 Intro
01:21 What happened to Sovereignty Studios in El Salvador?
03:38 Why do Bitcoiners leave El Salvador and did Bukele really respond to that viral rant?
08:01 Should I move to El Salvador or is it overhyped?
09:20 What is Build in El Salvador and how do I join the community?
14:00 What is it like moving to El Salvador as a Latin American Bitcoiner?
17:16 How do Bitcoin entrepreneurs find their tribe in El Salvador?
22:19 How does the expat community in El Salvador help when things go wrong?
27:07 What changed about El Salvador residency rules in 2026?
33:53 What happened at the SovAI Summit at the National Palace? 

Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

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Luis Esparragoza: 0:00

Everyone here is trying to build a nation, so I think that's the premise of building El Salvador, and what we expect our community members to to understand that we are going into the same direction, each one with with his skills, his knowledge, his path maybe, but towards the same goals, which is developing a civilization here that may, you know, be different than the rest. We always say that El Salvador is going one way, and the world is going the other way. So this is the arc. I will say, like what everybody jumps in, and we know that not everything is perfect. There are challenges, but we'll try to make the difference in in the long term. So it's really important for us, and we really appreciate it from the Bitcoin office and Deana and Max and Stacy.

Mike Peterson: 1:21

So I have you guys back in the the studio. I last time we did the podcast, were we in here or we were? No, you were developing the studio, right? Building it. It was in we were in the temporary one. Okay, that's what I thought. So it's it's fun having you guys. And you know, last time we were talking about Sovereignty Studios, which you guys wound up kind of winding down, and but you have a new venture here built in El Salvador that sounds extremely exciting, and I think just the history that you've had since since since coming here, and how you guys have have worked kind of through you know, even I think there was some disillusion with with Sovereign Studios. You were you know thought that there was potential in that, and it wound up maybe not being what you'd hoped. But now you've been able to pivot and see a way that you can really help the community build. So I don't know. I don't know if that's a fair assessment or not. But that's kind of how it.

Michael Ruiz: 2:18

Sure. So I mean, I could start from there as far as where the story ended last time, yeah, you know, we we met. So, Sovereignty Studios was a marketing media company that we started over here.

Mike Peterson: 2:30

You guys put out a lot of great content, so it wasn't like it was a failure by any means. Like, there's that stuff still exists out there, and so people are still using those tools. So,

Michael Ruiz: 2:39

Yeah, my journey with Sovereignty Studios I don't regret any of it. It was such a cool experience. It was a way to enter here, El Salvador, and get off the ground running, creating value for the Bitcoin community here, as well as promoting the country and what's happening here. And so I learned a lot through that journey. It was kind of my first entrepreneurial venture and first time working with partners and a team and putting all that together and being a leader. So you know, I learned through the school of hard knocks on on and made a lot of mistakes. But the the journey you know led me to where I'm at right now, which is you know it's been a fantastic ride, and so no regrets whatsoever. And I'm taking all the foundation that I built with Sovereignty Studios over you know over the course of the past two years, and you know we've found a way to wind up you know in another project that is now really gaining momentum called Build in El Salvador, as you mentioned, yeah, and so that's that's kind of where we're at,

Mike Peterson: 3:38

And I think it's important to to kind of touch base because you know we're we obviously love El Salvador where we've all chosen to to live here and build our lives here, and but it is a challenging place. I mean, it is still a developing country. It's not for everybody. It's it's not Dubai. It's not you know that polished. It's more kind of the the wild west. If you like to kind of be on the frontiers of things, where where you can make things happen quickly, but also you know that comes with some baggage of being in a developing country. And you know, I have people that I've become good friends with that moved here, and they were full of excitement, and they kind of some of them have wound up leaving and and feeling like no, it was it wasn't what I you know was told it would be, and you know some of them kind of rage quit you know in that process, and so and and I know you kind of had some of that with with Sovereignty Studios with your partner over there who was on the the podcast here before, and so yeah, just curious your take on that, like how do we, how do we show El Salvador for all the beauty and the amazing things like that we see and the potential? I mean, I see so much business potential, so much opportunity here, but also help people be realistic that maybe it's not for them. If you like everything like orderly and to happen like in a you know straight line and to know. What to expect all the time? It might not be the best place for you.

Michael Ruiz: 5:03

Yeah. So I guess a good place to start here is to kind of give some background on on what happened. So Sovereignty Studios ran its course, and you know the project ended, and for a while there we were just kind of living here in El Salvador, and at some point, my my partner decided, hey, it's time for me to go. But when he left, he wrote this long rant on Twitter talking about all the challenges here in El Salvador. But you know, he did it in a very, I would say, kind of aggressive way, where he even got the president here to comment on his post, and,

Mike Peterson: 5:42

Well, he was upset. He had given up everything in his life to move here, and he was frustrated. It hadn't turned out how he wanted it to, and and you know,

Michael Ruiz: 5:50

Sure, and you know, in a lot of ways, it's perhaps because the expectations weren't realistic, right? And you know,

Mike Peterson: 5:57

What did the president respond?

Michael Ruiz: 6:00

I think he said something like, "We need more builders here, not whiners. Yeah, and you know, I don't, you know, I don't know, I don't get into that vision. I don't want to get into that, you know, controversy. But you know, Jordan, and his name was Jordan Hobbs, and he's yeah,

Mike Peterson: 6:18

He was on the podcast before. Great guy, like,

Michael Ruiz: 6:20

Yeah, and he's he's doing stuff now with AI, and he was just at Bitcoin Vegas. He gave a phenomenal speech, and you know I think that Jordan is a really good guy with a good heart, and he's a very talented individual. So when I look at that situation, I'm like, man, El Salvador actually lost like a talent over here, and you know, I guess to what you're saying is, you know, the expectations when people come here versus you know reality when you get on the ground. I think it's important to kind of address those. I guess as you're you know you're mentioning here, because it is still a developing country. It is still you know has some rough edges. You know, you don't have all the amenities. You don't have the organic produce section, and you don't have the Whole Foods and the Trader Joe's and the spas and the saunas and all of that stuff that you would find in the United States or or other developed countries. Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 7:17

Hey guys, just reminder: the best way to really understand how Bitcoin is impacting El Salvador and what's happening here is to get some boots on the ground and come visit. And of course, we're excited now to have locations both in El Zonte and Punta Mango where we have guest homes there that you can rent. That everything can be done in Bitcoin. So we have the Bitcoin Beach Suites in El Zonte, and we have Punta Mango Villas in Punta Mango, and you can find all that on the Stay at Bitcoin Beach website. So make sure that you check that out, and if you're planning on coming down, make sure you're staying at a place where Bitcoin is going to be welcomed, and that you'll be surrounded by other Bitcoiners.

Michael Ruiz: 8:01

But that's where the opportunity exists, as you mentioned, and so there's huge huge potential to do a lot of good here and to develop a lot of cool things, and so you know, I mean, to your question, I would just say you know, El Salvador's on the rise, and there is a lot of potential here, but if you're coming here looking for an escape, if you're coming here looking for, you know, you're running away from problems and thinking that this is a solution to them, and you think you're going to have everything laid out and comfortable for you, if you're coming here to sip margaritas on the beach, and you know, you know, not face any challenges, well, you know, I think the realities here on the ground, you're going to find something different. Yeah,

Mike Peterson: 8:45

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And now, from my understanding, what you guys are are doing with building El Salvador is really trying to help entrepreneurs that are trying to build here in El Salvador, kind of surmount some of these challenges to see the opportunities, because anytime there's challenges, there's there's opportunities too. That's there's so many services here that they face so much less competition than like in the U.S. If you try to do something similar, you'd you'd be competing with all these people here. If you find your niche, you can kind of corner the market to some extent,

Michael Ruiz: 9:20

Huge first mover advantage over here, and yeah. So I guess I'll go a little bit more into the story. So when Sovereignty Studios ran its course, I was left with like, okay, what do I do? You know, there was a lot of bear market sentiment within the Bitcoin community here, right? A lot of people left, like you mentioned. A lot of people rage quit, and you know, I was wondering. Okay, I guess I tried. I came here. I, you know, I gave it a shot, and I guess you know it's time for me to figure out something else to do. And so, but I still had a lease. And there was still time on that lease, and so, you know, I just told myself I'm gonna actually live here because the time that I had spent here, I was working a lot, and I just wanted to absorb the culture, absorb the people, absorb the rhythm of life over here. And during that time, Luis came up to me. He was with me at Sovereignty Studios, and then he also helped with the Build in El Salvador retreats. And so,

Mike Peterson: 10:27

And those are retreats that you would you'd build people, you'd bring people down that were looking to have El Salvador be their Plan B or their Plan A. Some of them were looking to move here, and it was kind of like an exposure to El Salvador, and then, but also doing that with other Bitcoiners and people that you know of like-minded.

Michael Ruiz: 10:45

Yeah, it was really cool. You know, so Sovereignty Studios media marketing company, we needed a market, and so we developed an offshoot, which was building El Salvador retreats, and the idea was to bring people here and have them discover the country, and and so we did that. Turns out to be a lot of work, Mike.

Mike Peterson: 11:04

I think we talked about on the last the the last podcast that we were doing. You were just getting ready to do the first one. Yeah, and I was like, man, I'm glad you're doing it because I know it's way more work than you think it's going to be.

Michael Ruiz: 11:15

Yes. So managing logistics, but you know, for people,

Mike Peterson: 11:20

But everybody, I heard great reports from it.

Michael Ruiz: 11:22

Yeah, so you know, I like to do things, and I like to do things right. And and I was in the hospitality space, and so you know, I know what I know how to treat people. I know how to make them feel welcome, and I know how to make sure that we you know provide them white glove service and that we manage all their their needs. And so we got a lot of great reviews from those retreats, but all of that requires a lot of work. And and so, anyways, going back to that, Sovereignty Studios needed something to do media for, and so that's why we created those retreats. And and they were cool. We we created a lot of good content from that, and we we showed a lot of people the country. So when that ran its course, Luis came up to me and he said, "Hey, you know, we got to stay busy here. We can't not do anything. And he said, "Let's let's start writing. Let's start writing about you know what's happening here in El Salvador. And so what we ended up doing was just looking around and looking for the entrepreneurs that are here, and asking them,"Hey, can we come to your project and interview you? Whether it's a farm, whether it's at your offices, or or just in general, have a conversation with you about what brought you here, your story, you know, what motivates you, the challenges you faced, and you know, we started writing those, and they became really popular. You know, we we interviewed John, Bitcoin core developer. We interviewed this guy named Flomain Papusa, who literally changed his name to Papusa, bought a million dollar passport, got on a one way ticket to El Salvador. So those real remarkable people, and now he's building 100 Manzana farm, planting avocados in Santa Ana, and like you just start hearing these stories, and you're like, "Wow, I thought I went through a lot, but no, it turns out like people have really uprooted their lives, left their families, got on a one-way ticket, not knowing what to expect to come to El Salvador in order to you know build towards a a new vision, a new way of living, all like kind of rooted on a Bitcoin standard, and that was really remarkable. And from that, yeah, we just started interviewing, yeah, just really remarkable, a lot of remarkable people, and it started with a Substack, and that grew. And then I realized at some point it'd be really cool to get all these people in in a room together, and and so I always had that in the back of my mind. And during this time, Luis, you know, we were still figuring out what to do. I mean, this was more of a passion project. There's no aim. There's no direction. It's just a way to stay busy, and then also a way to get to know the people that are here.

Mike Peterson: 14:00

I would love to for Luis to give us a little bit of his background because we've had you on the podcast before, and so a lot of people will be familiar with kind of what brought you here. But but Louise would love to have you kind of give us a brief history of what brought you to El Salvador, the Bitcoin space. Yeah,

Luis Esparragoza: 14:18

Sure, sure. No, thanks, Mike, and thanks for having us here, my name is Luis Esparagosa. I come from Venezuela. I moved to El Salvador because of Bitcoin. I was a Bitcoin journalist since 2016. Right when I got out from college, I started writing about Bitcoin. You know, getting really interested into the technical aspects of.

Mike Peterson: 14:42

Did we meet outside of El Salvador at one point?

Luis Esparragoza: 14:46

Probably on a conference or something like that. Maybe Miami. I don't know. But how long we did here?

Mike Peterson: 14:53

How long were you working as a journalist in the Bitcoin space?

Luis Esparragoza: 14:56

Since 2016 up until 2020? Four, three.

Mike Peterson: 15:01

Were you in the Bitcoin in Uruguay?

Luis Esparragoza: 15:03

No, no.

Mike Peterson: 15:04

Okay,

Luis Esparragoza: 15:04

haven't been.

Mike Peterson: 15:05

Okay, for some reason I felt felt like we met initially outside of El Salvador. But anyways, I'm getting us off track. Sorry. Oh

Luis Esparragoza: 15:11

No worries, no worries. So I came to El Salvador as a reporter when Bitcoin was approved as a legal tender. All these conferences started happening. I visited to cover the, well, the 2021 adopting Bitcoin and everything. That it was the first time a bunch of Bitcoiners were visiting the country. So what was started as a 10-day trip, it ended up being a six-month stay. So like I decided to stay in Salvador because I'd seen all these people coming here, and I said like okay I can interview. I mean all the people that I want to talk with are coming here, so I rather stay. After that, I remain you know belonging to the Bitcoin community, worked with my first Bitcoin for a while to you know getting involved, engaged with the mission, and it's been how long? Like four years now. We we were talking about that recently. I was making numbers, and it's almost four years now since I've been living here. So I met Mike on Twitter. I think I was following him. We changed a couple DMs, and without me even predicting it or anything, like Michael came to El Salvador, and he texted me like, "Hey, let's link up. Let's see what's up. I mean, I'm also getting involved with the Bitcoin community, and we met, and we started working together at Sovereignty Studios. I help with the retreats and the media there, and well, the rest the rest is the the story that Michael already told you. Like we just got into this synergic relation where ideas and conversations and discussions come and go, and we get to inspire each other, work together, and that's how basically we we got here, you know, with building El Salvador. So it's been a long ride, and I think we have many years left of work together.

Mike Peterson: 17:16

So what what is your guys' main focus right now at building El Salvador, what I know you're still trying to figure out exactly what the structure is going to look like and and what the business model is, but like, what is do you are you most excited about, and and then why are people drawn to this movement? Like,

Michael Ruiz: 17:38

Yeah. So I guess going back to where we left off, Luis came to me and said we should start writing. We started writing, and then we started doing events. Right, I I went and hung out. I still didn't know what to do. I went and hung out with some Bitcoiners, and you know, despite the bear market vibes in the community, despite the IMF news, despite all that noise, these guys were pumped, all right, at Club Cocal they were pumped, they were energized, they were just bullish on El Salvador, and you know they were still gung ho about their projects and what they're building, and it invigorated me. I was like, wow, like I left there like with a invigorated and with a newfound energy to to pursue something, and so I was like, you know, how can we recreate that? How can we? Because I know there's other people here, right? Being in El Salvador is tough. Developing country, a lot of antiquated systems, a lot of challenges, traffic. You don't speak the languages, you know. And as an entrepreneur trying to build stuff, you go, you go through your ups and downs emotionally. And so I was like, man, how can I recreate what happened to me over there at Club Cocal, and so we started putting together masterminds. We started putting together roundtables and bringing the entrepreneurs that I met through you know writing on my Substack together, and and that started becoming really powerful because you know there was it was oriented towards something. It was oriented towards building. It was oriented towards you know being productive. It was oriented towards creating value and finding other people who are interested in that. And I think the underlining common factor of everything is like you know we're all Bitcoiners, and it wasn't the main theme, right? Like, but you know when you meet a Bitcoiner, you can kind of tell you got 50, 60% of the same values. You know you you operate from first principles. There's a commonality there where you you can skip the small talk and get straight into the straight into the meaningful conversations. And so, yeah, we started getting a lot of good reviews, similar to our retreats on our events. And so we started.

Mike Peterson: 19:38

How often do these events happen, and how can because because I'll be I'll be honest I didn't I didn't know about them and you know I I've been in and out of the country and and we've been at a lot of conferences different things and and and I'm not the best at keeping up on everything but but if if I hadn't know about them I'm sure because I would love to come so I'm sure there's other people out there that are here and El Salvador, so how how do people participate in this? How do they find out about it? What's the?

Michael Ruiz: 20:05

It's an interesting thing we're not sure right now. We have a good community here of about 101 120 entrepreneurs, and so we send the invites there. We keep them small and intimate, and I think that's where things are going. Like you know, you go to a big conference, a big Bitcoin conference, and kind of get lost in the sauce, right? But if if if you go to a smaller event, it's more intimate. And then not only that, but there's some other elements here in El Salvador. It's a small country. We all live within proximity, and so you know those reoccurring meetings they allow for relationships to form, friendships to form, partnerships to form. And so we started holding this like every two weeks, every three weeks,

Mike Peterson: 20:41

And is it in Cocal or where where do you guys hold this?

Michael Ruiz: 20:45

Well, wherever you know we're we're working with different venues you know, so Palestra House we did a few roundtables over there. Okay, now where I live, you know I rent out the rooftop, and so we keep them small, we keep them intimate, and that way, people can and form relationships. Some of them are public, right? Like we'll post them on Twitter, and and we'll have people register. And some of them are within within the network, I guess you can call it, right? So from this, what ended up happening is that we ended up because it's good when you meet in person, but then you go home and and then you're disconnected, right? And so we created a WhatsApp group. We created a digital community around this, and so now conversations can happen after the event. And so that's what's really powerful is that now it's an extension to the events, to getting to know somebody, and you know the events also they allow for people that entered the WhatsApp group or the digital community to then get to know each other in person, so they're just not a screen name. So there's a familiarity that starts to occur, and I think that's where powerful things happen. And you know, we've had partnerships form, we've had people, you know, join projects, consultation. Like we just had somebody today. He presented a project, and he was able to get consultation from one of the members in the group. There's a very collaborative spirit because here in El Salvador, it's kind of like a startup country, and everybody wants to see each other succeed. Because once one person succeeds, it kind of like it rises the tide.

Mike Peterson: 22:19

Synergistic,

Michael Ruiz: 22:19

yeah. And it rises the tide, we all get better. Like if if you know you open up a bakery or you know you open up a a service that we all need, and you do well, it's like our standard of living has risen because of that service. And so, like there is this aspect there where it's very collaborative, especially right now during the building phase of El Salvador, and so people are able to get the help that they need. Somebody, you know, and it could be simple stuff. And going back to, for instance, Jordan and you know the the challenges that he had living here, right? That's mainly what we're starting to realize that this group is starting to address because you know, if you have challenges, let's just say like one of our members, he was using a saw and it's sliced his eye, and you know all of a sudden he needs an eye doctor, right? So he texts in our group, and within a minute he gets recommended an eye doctor, goes there, gets the gets the treatment that he needs, says the doctor was fantastic, and and that little just interaction made that guy's life so much better. Yeah,

Mike Peterson: 23:28

Makes a huge difference.

Michael Ruiz: 23:30

And so it's it's really starting to become a coordination layer, a support group for people who are coming here. And I would say one of the main goals is to keep the talent here. Yeah. So you know, people like Jordan don't leave, right? Like, hey, we're gonna try to make your life easier by connecting you in this network, plug you in, and you're gonna have all the resources. You're gonna have a good community of Bitcoiners and and people that operate on a low time preference, have some principles, and are really here to create value and and do something positive. And that's the energy you want to be around, you know. And so yeah, it's kind of evolving, and maybe you want to take this.

Luis Esparragoza: 24:04

Yeah, maybe just to add on, like I think you can get really discouraged if you are by yourself, isolated, and you don't have a tribe, you don't have a community, right? And one thing we are not saying that entrepreneurs won't have challenges. You know, like if you go see and read,

Mike Peterson: 24:21

Everything in your life is a challenge when you're an entrepreneur.

Luis Esparragoza: 24:23

You can see it. So, what we want to do is like have people meet and work together through those challenges to make it easier. So, I think the narrative we are setting. We are not saying that El Salvador doesn't that is easy for everyone, but at least we have a community that can help you thrive. You know,

Michael Ruiz: 24:48

So that's one aspect of it. I mean, so there's a few things here, right? We have our media, which is if you look at the name, build in El Salvador, it's outward projecting. It's saying, hey, come build in El Salvador, and it's. Actionable. It's not, hey, come to El Salvador because you know you're you're running away from something, and you know you need to escape, right? It's not escape to El Salvador, right? It's it's come here, be productive, bring your hopes, your dreams, your visions, get plugged into a community, find the help that you need to get going from day one. So that's part of it. It's outward-facing, saying, "Hey, El Salvador's open. This is a developing country. They're trying to do things right. They're trying to, you know, they've changed trajectory, right, from 40, 50 years of civil war and dark ages, and now they're trying to rebuild a nation. And Bukele put the call out for you know the best and brightest to move down here and help. And so you know, and then there's a lot of opportunity to do good. So come build in El Salvador. So that's the media. It's outward facing, and we also highlight these stories from the entrepreneurs that are here as inspiration. Like, hey, you know, this guy got on a one-way ticket and just moved here. This guy brought his whole family down. You know, this this lady, she you know, she traveled through. She drove here through Mexico to come here, and so it's like it lets you know what's possible. And so we want to be inspirational with our media, and and and put a call out there, put the signal out there to come to El Salvador and build. Then we have the events, which is like, hey, now that you're here, you have events. You're gonna meet very cool people. You're gonna you're gonna develop relationships. You're gonna find the help that you need, and then we have the digital community where it's like, okay, now you have a support group here, and you know there are as things progress, right? This is all happening organically. We didn't plan for this to happen, right? Yeah. But as we're building momentum and things are moving along. You know, we have plans. Hey, maybe we can do a co-working hub. Maybe we can do you know slash midterm to long-term stays. You know, now with residency for three months, come stay at our co-working spot where you know you can earn you you can get your residency by staying here three months, and you're in a cool environment with cool people. So that might be a is,

Mike Peterson: 27:07

Is that something new with the residency?

Michael Ruiz: 27:09

Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 27:10

Okay, I wasn't even aware of that. So if you stay for three months, you can get a residency now.

Michael Ruiz: 27:14

Yep. I think they changed it, and so residency is three months.

Mike Peterson: 27:18

Okay.

Michael Ruiz: 27:18

And so yeah, we see, you know, looking outward, I think, or looking into the future, I think we see a lot of migration happening here. Yeah,

Mike Peterson: 27:26

because that that was an issue I know for a lot of entrepreneurs because under the old system, you couldn't be out of the country. I think for more than three months during the year, and there was a lot of people that travel for conferences, or you know, they're podcasters, and they, and so they, they're like, it's hard because now we can't travel to the other places. We want to live in El Salvador, but we need to be able to travel. So that's that's great to hear that they changed that.

Michael Ruiz: 27:52

Yeah. So you know, you know, as of right now, we're growing, we're strengthening the ecosystem. Right. We're gonna have our website up soon. We're developing systems and standards, you know. And one of the things that we want to do with this, what I'm starting to realize is I want to remove myself as much as I can from it because it's a lot of work. But kind of treat it like a platform. So within the media side, we already have people who are using Build in El Salvador and developing content under you know under that that brand and that platform, and so we're gonna try to you know develop standards on how we want things done, and and kind of just create also a platform for people to grow entrepreneurially, and and also spread the message out there and stuff like that. So you know they could develop or create events under our brand. I mean, this is kind of the roadmap. What we're thinking, it's still kind of fuzzy, right? And but that's the direction that we're headed in. I think so.

Luis Esparragoza: 28:48

I think the goal is to become basically like an open source project, an open source platform. I mean, is building El Salvador is as collaborative as an open source project could be. I think that's the ideal because I mean it's a support network, so we also learn a lot from our community members and community members, even probably behind our backs or without us knowing, they help each other. Yeah, and they come a few days later. Hey, you know, like this guy I met at your event, he helped me. I don't know with my farm, I needed some supplies, and he told me where to get it, and that's cool. We we learn about that after it happens. So we want to keep that going until basically the community takes over. You know, building El Salvador becomes more of a movement rather than what we are now. So we are shape shifting. We are still learning, experimenting, and we are taking our time to like to let the ideas settle and you know flow organically and become,

Mike Peterson: 29:53

See what the real need is. Instead of trying to push your vision, see what do people need and how do we like. learned.

Michael Ruiz: 30:00

Well, I learned from Sovereignty Studios. You know, I really forced that, and it was fine. Yeah, it was like,

Mike Peterson: 30:05

Sometimes you got to force things a little bit, but you learn from it.

Michael Ruiz: 30:08

But yeah, and so now you know operating very lean. You know, we we we don't take any revenue, so we we just operate as lean as possible. It's right now just me and Luis, and so we throw the events, we write the media, we we do the interviews, we we write the articles, and so you know we're letting letting things evolve, and then you know we'll when it's time to step back and and put the pieces together and and form something more, I would say official. We'll know what to do. Yeah, based off that. Yeah, and that's fine. And yeah, and it also takes the pressure off. I don't know. Once you try to force things and build something, and you have an end goal in mind, you're like the pressure's on you. You can't sleep, and you're you know just the life of entrepreneur. Yeah, yeah,

Mike Peterson: 31:00

yeah. No, no. So we're

Michael Ruiz: 31:01

Having a lot more fun now. That's the other part, you know. We're like going out there and you know, driving rocky roads to get to a farm to interview someone, and it's just like, whoa, how do we end up out here? So yeah, it's it's a lot more fun.

Mike Peterson: 31:15

And that and that's important. I think just even for your health, like I I know even with the Bitcoin Beach stuff, like it was all like good stuff, but we were doing so many different things, and I let my health go, and I was having, and then I was just like, I thought I was dying for a while, and I was just like realizing that I was spending way too much time in front of a computer, and you know, answering messages on the cell phone, and not enjoying the beauty and the nature in El Salvador that like brought me down here the first at first so,

Michael Ruiz: 31:48

By the way you look great.

Mike Peterson: 31:49

Oh thank you, no we've really been making an effort to like get up for sunset get out and surf you know I went on the carnivore diet and and and you know getting back in the gym. Wow. So, which was that was actually challenging because I I lifted a lot when I was young, and then you get back in, and I was like so weak, and I was like I couldn't even. I'm like I can't even bench my body weight anymore, and that was that was eye opening for me. Humbling, right? Yeah, but but now I'm I'm back over benching my my yeah. I think I'm like 120 of my body weight, which is good for me at 51. I'm happy with that. Yeah, but it's it's important to remember like to keep the big picture in place and to not get so tunnel vision that you burn yourself out.

Michael Ruiz: 32:43

I tell you what, shout out to the Midos in in building El Salvador. They're always in there making sure that we're aware of our health. To get out there, ground yourself, get some sun, you know, and make sure that we're taking care of ourselves beyond just you know pushing the limits with what we're doing entrepreneurially. To remember, our health is important as well. So that's the other cool thing is that you know the people within Build in El Salvador they span. You know we have people in the government in there. You know which is pretty cool and interesting because you got them mixed in there with libertarians and Bitcoiners, and then we also have people. You know, I guess I call them idols, right? The people here who are health conscious and and really centered around you know holistic living, and then you have you know lawyers and you have Bitcoiners, and then you have

Luis Esparragoza: 33:32

Real estate developers,

Michael Ruiz: 33:33

Technologists, and so you get a good mix. But there's a commonality, right? There's a there's an ethos, there's a common spirit within there where I think we're all here to do good, to create value, to operate on low time preference, and that common spirit really kind of binds the community and creates a real cohesive and collaborative atmosphere.

Mike Peterson: 33:53

I love that. Yeah, I know that there was a AI conference here. I believe last month. I was not in the country, but I know that Stacy had you guys come and and be a part of it. So I'd love to get a report back on what I know El Salvador is is really focusing on you know being a first mover in the the AI space. So I would love to hear your perspective, and I think we have some pictures too. We can throw up there, Paco.

Michael Ruiz: 34:21

Yeah. So thank you, Stacy, for inviting Build in El Salvador to the SolvAI Conference. I think it's so cool to have an AI conference in the National Palace. It tells you something about where El Salvador is, where they're directing their vision. Right, they want to be on the leading edge of technology. You know, they came Bitcoin Country, and now they're adopting AI, and they're making sure El Salvador isn't left behind, left in the dark. And so, you know, Stacy invited building El Salvador, you know, and we got 25 members about there to to go. And then not only that, but we were able to. Have a little section for interviews. I got to interview some of the speakers at the SolvAI Summit, which really fascinating. You know, one of them was John Nosta, and he's talking about, hey, we got to be careful because if we offload too much of our cognitive capacity to AI, it could really dumb us down as human beings, and we really need to be aware of that as we interact with AI. Then there was Garrett Johnson with HydroHost, and you know they do sovereign AI compute, and they're part of the team that got the b3 100 s over here into El Salvador, and so that was really cool. And and then at the same time, I got to interview a lot of our members in building El Salvador. There's a Abidia brothers brothers right there. You know, they do Bitcoin Life, and so it was cool for them too. You know, they're getting interviewed at the National Palace, and it. I think it symbolized like, hey, they're part of this too. You know what I mean? This isn't just you know, this isn't just a top-down show. It's it's a bottom up thing too, and so you know we need entrepreneurs here building as well, who aren't the big corporate giants and and stuff like that. And so you know they got to you know this is Cam and Mike, and they're big on Nostr. And so yeah, just I thought it was really cool for them to do that for Stacy to invite to invite Build in El Salvador there, I know everybody was really appreciative of it. I know everyone valued it, and so yeah, that's Jess, and she's a ghost writer using AI, and so yeah, I would say.

Mike Peterson: 36:33

And I heard that there was a lot of people from the government that were there too. Sure, yeah,

Michael Ruiz: 36:38

It's a little intimidating for me, you know, but you know, you had a lot of people with military, like top brass of the military. You know, big people, ambassadors, and stuff like that. Which, you know, I don't know. What was your perspective, Luis? Yeah. Well,

Luis Esparragoza: 36:52

I mean, we have talked about this, like in El Salvador, both government and the civilians, like they mingle together, they share the same space and they are approachable. I think the government has the interest to actually listen, not only the local population but also the foreigners that are coming here. And you don't feel that division or or that border that you might define maybe as bureaucracy or the the social dynamics around that works differently compared to other countries in in South America, in Central America. So we really appreciate that. I mean, this is not just a building. This the National Palace carries a lot of symbolic meaning for the nation, for everyone, and to to be there doing what we love to do, you know, promoting the country, you know, means a lot for us because make us feel part of the project that the government is leading and he's inviting us to the same boat. Because I think everyone here is trying to build a nation, so I think that's the premise of building El Salvador, and what we expect our community members to to understand that we are going into the same direction, each one with with his skills, his knowledge, his path maybe, but towards the same goals, which is developing a civilization here that may, you know, be different than the rest. We always say that El Salvador is going one way and the world is going the other way. So this is the arc. I will say, like what everybody jumps in, and we know that not everything is perfect. There are challenges, but we'll try to make the difference in in the long term. So it's really important for us, and we really appreciate it from the Bitcoin office and Deana and Max and Stacy.

Mike Peterson: 38:54

Yeah. Well, I think if you think about you know going going back the the the the arc narrative, I'm sure it wasn't all smooth sailing on the ark. Yeah, yeah. That's a good point.

Luis Esparragoza: 39:08

Falling, you know, that storm.

Mike Peterson: 39:11

Well, for people that want to, is there is there anything else that we miss? That,

Michael Ruiz: 39:17

Well, you know, we do. I think there. There's some. Maybe we could put up on there the roundtable, some of the round footage from the roundtable or something like that. But if not, I think we're good. It should say roundtable on the on the on the sheet.

Mike Peterson: 39:36

Do we have any of those pictures loaded? Okay.

Michael Ruiz: 39:38

Oh, I'm sorry. It was a video. Yeah, that's fine.

Mike Peterson: 39:42

But as far as like how people can participate in those things, let's make sure we leave with like or or where they can go like on YouTube to to watch videos of this or anything else. We can we'll also put those in the show notes. You can give those information to Paco. But if if there's something you want to mention now, let's yeah anything we can. Do to direct people,

Michael Ruiz: 40:01

Mike, first of all, I gotta say thank you. You've been a big supporter of of me and my projects and the team since the minute I got here. I mean, if it wasn't for Bitcoin Beach, you were my gateway to Bitcoin Beach was my gateway to El Salvador. You and the team, the events that you put together, and you've had me on the podcast. And I just want to take a moment to appreciate you, Mike. You've come on my podcast, and so you know that is part of it too.

Mike Peterson: 40:26

No, I love having people like you that are builders and excited. So yeah, it's I'm I'm not doing you a favor. I'm I'm doing this for myself.

Michael Ruiz: 40:34

All right. Well, it's Build in El salvador.com. You can find us on Twitter at BuildinES, and then Build in El Salvador on YouTube, and then build in El Salvador on Substack. So, yeah, it's um we're we're on those platforms however you want to. Um, our website is in the process of being developed, so by the time this airs, it should be out. And so, if you want to just keep it simple, Buildin El Salvador. com.

Mike Peterson: 41:03

Okay.

Michael Ruiz: 41:03

Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 41:03

Awesome. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you guys coming down today, and I'm excited to hear about the the new venture. I was I was to be honest, kind of sad when I heard Sovereignty Studios was was closing down, but I love the fact that you've kind of like turned that and like, hey, okay, that wasn't the right fit, but this is where we can really like meet a need, and so yeah, I love that.

Michael Ruiz: 41:26

Yeah, and it's without pressure. It's without it's organic. It's it feels fluid. It feels fun, and so you know, I I've thought about leaving El Salvador, but El Salvador just keeps on holding me down, you know, and the community that's coming here is really cool, really, really amazing people. And so, thank you for keeping the signal out there, Mike, because you know you're you're bringing them in too.

Mike Peterson: 41:50

Awesome. Yeah. Well, Michael, Luis, thank you guys.

Luis Esparragoza: 41:53

Thank you, Mike.