The Mick & Pat Show

The Mick & Pat Show - Lives on the Line

• Mick and Pat • Season 3 • Episode 14

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We take a deep dive into the heated confrontation between President Trump, Senator Vance, and Ukrainian President Zelensky that unfolded at the White House, exploring the complexities of diplomatic communication and peace negotiations.

• Exploring the realities of the Ukraine-Russia war, now in its third year with devastating casualties on both sides
• Breaking down what makes a protest legal versus illegal in America and Trump's controversial statements about campus demonstrations
• Examining the mask debate at protests and what it reveals about accountability and intentions
• Revisiting the 2004 "Killdozer" incident and how perceptions of Marvin Heemeyer's actions have evolved over time
• Reflecting on the human cost of war and why peace negotiations matter more than territorial disputes

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Speaker 1

are you leaving town for your birthday tomorrow? Um, it's, uh, it's gonna actually be. It wasn't officially for my birthday, but it is coming up to my is like my birthday weekend or whatever, because we're we're actually getting away before the little baby has the mouth surgery. Just, uh, been a pretty good long year of stuff with her and then, with her surgery coming up, it's going to be like a 14-day pretty intense recovery where her arms will be bound in like a straight jacket, basically, yeah, to keep her from putting her fingers in her mouth. Yep, yep, because she's getting her palate reconstructed.

Speaker 2

This is hopefully the one and only surgery right, could be the only one.

Speaker 1

Sometimes, when you're seven or eight, you got to have another one More of an orthodontic follow-up surgery, but this would be the big one. So, yeah, she's almost a year old, going to get surgery done, but we decided to do a getaway right before. So we were going to go to Mexico and fly down there and hang out on the beach and we decided to. We toned it back just doing a weekend in the mountains so nice. It'll still be good.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it'll still be really fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, with your little one getting the surgery and all that, what is, you know, the surgery for the cleft palate, like what? What do they do at the little one-year-old stage? Because it's basically because she's at one right.

Speaker 1

Or close to it. Yeah, so when a kid's born without a palate or with a cleft palate, they have to weigh in the balance between the kid being large enough to have to undergo surgery and then also not being too old, that they have permanent speech impediments and things like that. So they try to do it between 12 to 15 months old and so, um, they will, yeah, you go under for it, and basically they don't add any tissue. They take what's there and kind of on the sides of the top of your mouth, cut it and sew it all together to give you a roof of your mouth, to give you some form of a palate, yep yep.

Speaker 1

And then there can be some like sometimes they have to do some like cheek grafting things like that up there, but they say, hopefully you don't so, but yeah, they basically are able to just close it off up there and it won't have a hard top palate. Her whole palate will actually be soft all the way through. So yeah, and then once that heals up, then you got to learn how to swallow and suck and talk and do all those things.

Speaker 2

So is that why most people with like a cleft palate when they're older is if they have like a little bit of a lisp, yeah.

Speaker 1

That's a soft palate on the tongue, I think so. Yeah, so she could very well have uh, you know, permanent uh speech issues and things like that She'll have to work through and figure out. Yeah, so that's coming up, so we're going to sneak away to the mountains and just hang out, the two of us, for a little while.

Speaker 1

Maybe go to some hot springs. What part of the mountains we're going up to the Collegiate Peaks area? Oh yeah, nice Hot springs up there, and then do also doing collegiate peaks area. Oh yeah, nice hot springs up there, and then do uh, good springs up there doing uh uh. Mason, do surprise me with a guided ice fishing trip.

Speaker 2

Oh that'll be kind of fun. I knew about this.

Speaker 1

I had to pretend not to know about it because billy dream did the surprise for me.

Speaker 2

Mason said oh, I'm gonna surprise pat with something too. That was good, isn't that pretty sick.

Speaker 1

That is good, I like it.

Speaker 2

I like it yeah, so guided fly fishing, not guided fly fish guided ice fishing yeah nice. So, yeah, that's pretty cool, dude, that'll be fun, are you? Are you a really big ice fisher?

Speaker 1

I'm not I actually I don't like it. So Is it because Because I go out and I catch nothing? Yeah, I've only been three times in my life. Yeah, never caught a darn thing doing it. It just froze my little cheeks off.

Speaker 2

So, now.

Speaker 1

so I say that I don't like it, but You've never done it right. I'm excited to go with a guide to a spot, Like you know, they got the setup. I think to a spot, like you know, they got the setup and you know whatever the tent and the heater, all the stuff, yeah, so that'll be good.

Speaker 2

So have you seen the video of the guy who is reaching to pull his line up with the fish on it and his phone slides off his thigh and, just like a bar soap in the tub, just goes it just like down in the hole, perfectly just gone. Bro. Keep your phone in your pocket no kidding, yeah, because I've seen a good handful of videos where, because it's so slippery on that ice, oh yeah, phones just skate and they just go downhill into the hole bro that's like the slip.

Speaker 2

That's where it's slowly. You know, uh, the point of like degrees aimed down to, and so everything is just going to slide into that hole. Oh yeah, no one thinks about it because they don't realize how it's slow, slowly starting to slope towards the hole, oh man.

Speaker 1

And I saw this super gimmicky commercial the other day for this like phone life jacket that activates when it gets wet. It's super bulky. Where are you watching commercials? Still, this is, you know, like, popped up on instagram or something you know, like I was. It should have been late night on the. You know, yeah, on three easy payments, yeah, type of commercial, but no, it was. Uh, it's this huge bulky thing on the back of your phone and if you drop it in the water, it just inflates, huh, and then floats up to the top, which even in this ice fishing situation might not have been that helpful because you could probably have like, see it like, but not float up to the hole. Yeah, you know, like, it float up 20 feet away wherever I don't know?

Speaker 2

yeah, the current has taken it away. You just floating as he goes away from you really quick, but um it was.

Speaker 1

I thought I did what I did like about the product. I was like that's a pretty cool idea. Also, I'll never put this on my phone.

Speaker 2

You know, yeah, because what if it rains and then it fills up like it inflates and you can't get your phone out? That's actually hilarious. What if you're peeing and you got a little bit left on the drop? You know you get calico pants, yeah, and it then inflates the phone in your pocket. That'd be an issue the amount of times I spill stuff. I just don't think I want it just like inflating in my pocket and ripping my jeans.

Speaker 1

Or sweaty thighs, you know. It's about to be summertime you got a sweaty thigh that thing, that thing goes off so it inflates.

Speaker 2

It's not like just like a foam, but it's actually like a like, I think I think some sort of foam case would be making more sense. Yeah, just get a foam case.

Speaker 1

While you're like, while you're fishing, you pop your phone into the foam case yeah, that makes a lot of covers your existing, I don't know.

Speaker 2

Here's my thing. Yeah, cases with paracord on them, like a case with a little paracord loop, just do that and put the loop around your wrist. Your phone's gonna be out of the pocket. Put that around your wrist and then that way, if you drop your phone, it's just hanging on the paracord loop.

Speaker 1

Yeah, like my phone case has a little loopy, it's built in, you can just put it through there.

Speaker 2

See, I think that's actually something that maybe we should design. Imagine this For when you're doing the outdoor excursions, you just have a phone case with a little metal loop ring built into the case. When you're ready you just run paracord through it and around like a belt loop, so that way you can be walking and if you drop in or you trip and catch yourself and you drop your phone, it will swing, but it just swings down as far as your loop from your belt loop is. And then you're like, ooh, thank God Cause, otherwise I would have dropped my phone, it would have just clackity, clack clack down the.

Speaker 1

Grand Canyon, yep. Or if you like to scroll while you're taking a little poop, put that lanyard on around your neck. You're not going to drop it in the toilet.

Speaker 2

That's nag, honestly, only once have I dropped my phone in the toilet, really yeah, and that was post-flushed, standing up, having set it down on the counter. And that was post flush, standing up, having set it down on the counter, and I was going to dry my hands and the like. The movement knocked it off with my hips and it went just perfectly, sliding off the toilet seat then into the toilet and I was like poopy, dang it. I got to reach down in there, yeah, but it was clean water, so I felt good about it. I just wipe it off with some dude wipes. Yeah, headphones, though Not too long ago.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, I was trying to put my headphone back in my ear.

Speaker 2

Wireless earbud While on the toilet and it was a. You know you sit down and you think you're going to poo. Uh-huh, no poo, just gas. You're like all right time to get up. So I'm standing up, falls on my ear, bounces off the side of the bathtub right into the toilet with pee and I was like son of a gun. So I fished it out, rinsed it off. I was like I it, I'll just rinse it off because, like it's clearly not gonna get ruined from the water. And then I just put it in a bag of rice. And then, even after the bag of rice, I pulled it out and rubbed like some like alcohol sanitization on it and I tested it works fine.

Speaker 1

so I still put those headphones in, just pull it out and go straight for the wireless wet willy. Just right in.

Speaker 2

No dog, no way no, dude, I'm gonna put a p in my ear, even if it's in my old pee dude Bro, that was always like an insult as a kid growing up. Just like dude, I'll pee in your ear.

Speaker 1

Really, that was one of them. Oh, that was always one of them. Oh, my goodness, think about this.

Speaker 2

You pee in someone's mouth, they're immediately going to wake up and know.

Speaker 1

You pee in someone's ear, they'll be like what is going.

Speaker 2

Going on is something dripping on me. Is there a leaky roof? That's pretty funny anyways. Um, dude, a lot of I mean, you know, I I want to say a lot of trump derangement syndrome. This week, a lot of tds, and I feel this week A lot of TDS.

Speaker 2

I feel like I get a pass in saying that because I didn't vote for him, so I feel like I get I'm allowed to criticize when I think people are freaking out and flipping out and being deranged about stuff. But I think what I've seen a lot of is people on both sides having kind of panic attacks about stuff and I don't know if it's as big of a deal like I do believe like there's certain things that are like definitely history making, but there's a lot of it that I'm just like. I feel like this is not unique, like I feel like this happens every 40 years, 60 years, 100 years. You know what I mean. Every four years, yeah, sure, right. And the latest one is people on you know pretty much both sides of politics. Like I've heard people say that are, like you know, democrat or Republican. Like I've heard people say that are, like you know, democrat or Republican.

Speaker 2

Oh, I don't like what Trump and Vance and their interaction with Zelensky just recently at the White House on camera. I didn't like it, but I've heard Democrats and Republicans both say, hey, I really enjoyed watching that. That was crazy. That felt like I got to look behind the curtain see how things are going on and I, you know, liked the way, you know, trump and vance kind of stood up to what was going on and trying to make sure they like they kept the show on the rail, I mean the show on the road, um, and kept the train on the rails.

Speaker 2

In regards to like how to handle it, because, you know, in case you don't know, actually I guess ukraine and russia at war and uh, zelensky was here to discuss um ukraine's involvement, um in like peace treaties and like coming to a deal, uh, that the us would kind of, as well as signing a mineral rights deal, as kind of paying back the US for its support in the Ukraine-Russia war, because, to be honest, ukraine just does not have the GDP to pay back anywhere close to the billions of dollars I mean over almost $200 billion have gone to Ukraine now.

Speaker 2

I think that's right yeah, almost 200 billion dollars have gone to ukraine. Now I think that's right, yeah, um, and uh, all that said, uh, mineral rights is a pretty effective thing, because if that occurs, uh, you know, then, like ukraine just kind of is selling, like, hey, you know, if the minerals are here, you get them, and we're kind of wiping their cost away, right, because if there's not a ton of minerals there, they still, like deals done in US, just kind of has the US just has to deal with it, right. But anyways, all that said, they are out there talking about the potentiality of the deal and Zelensky starts kind of adding more to the conversation which, you know, it was clearly like a press thing, where it was just supposed to be like, hey, come on out, let's wave, smile the cameras, talk about the excitement to find peace and, like you know what we're going to try to do to get peace and abroach um, zelensky starts saying stuff like, hey, there's be any concession. Uh, you know, we're the like we could still fight if we wanted to. Um, also, you know, um, you can't trust putin, like you can't trust him for peace deals.

Speaker 2

He breaks them all the time. He broke them in 2014. He broke it in like, uh, 2021, he's just gonna break it again if we go on a peace deal. So we need more support, um, and we need like something stronger. Uh, you know like a threat right, a threat of boots on the ground kind of stuff. And he's saying that and they're kind of like, well, you know, you're gonna have to make. Like trump and vance are both kind of alluding to like well, you're going to have to actually make a concession, like you're gonna have to concede some stuff Right To like that's what happens with the peace deals Like to stop the war, you concede to reach a deal, right.

Speaker 2

And Zelensky was like you know it's not going to happen because he's going to break the peace deal and you know what? You'll feel it eventually here in America. And I'm summarizing in words, but it's essentially like yes, there's a big ocean between Ukraine and Russia and America, but if Russia eats through Ukraine and the rest of Europe, you will eventually feel it in America. And that just was too much of like a, you know, allusion to a threat of consequence, to how you know america's handling things or lack of engagement. And so trump advanced kind of tore him to like pretty much boiled down to like hey, you were supposed to come out here, say thank you, smile, say, hey, america, thank you for your support. We really, really appreciate Ukraine. I'm looking forward to peace, also looking forward to this mineral rights deal with America and paying back our debt to them. And instead you kind of made it a warning and flag waving in front of people and pretty much put us in a position where if we don't agree with you, we're disagreeing on camera right now with you as the president of Ukraine, and if we do agree with you, putin is never going to answer the phone at the Kremlin, putin is never going to come to the table to do an agreement. So you're kind of like you're putting us in a position where, if there could be peace, we're not ever going to reach it. So now we got to be big dogs and kind of discipline you. Right, we have to point it out and be like look, you're running your mouth, you're saying things you have no right to say. Just come out here, smile, say thank you, so that way we can handle this shit behind closed doors.

Speaker 2

And I do think there was a lot of miscommunication. I do think they misunderstood zielinski to like I don't think Zelensky intended to sound threatening. I think he wanted to sincerely like make it sound like hey, like we are not just going to roll over, because if we roll over and just concede everything to Russia, they're just going to attack again and take more in, like four years when Trump's gone, which is 100% a valid point. I'm not saying I have any idea what to do with that, I'm just saying I get that that's a valid point because that's what's happened.

Speaker 2

Um, however, saying that on camera puts them in a really hard spot and then alluding to like one day russia is going to come for america if america doesn't do something now, you know, you're kind. That is. That is putting the president in a hard position where he needs to one look strong and like fierce, like nope, that won't happen, even if I'm gone, that won't happen because my vice president's here, you know, and so put them both in a position where they got to look like war dogs, ready to get mean, and it just was ugly. And I think the biggest thing too is like Vance pulled up. He's like you went campaigning for the other side, yeah, and we're still here trying to help you out, like yeah, shut your mouth, say thank you and I get it. I get it. Cameras are on. You got to look tough.

Speaker 2

Probably could have totally gone down differently if there wasn't media and everyone in the world watching and Fallout on down differently if there wasn't media and everyone in the world watching and fallout is fallout. But what we do know we don't know how russia is responding. We haven't heard anything about russia's response to what we, what happened and all that. But we do know that zelensky now has come back to the table agreeing to sign the mineral rights deal and work towards peace, and that's about.

Discussing Trump and Zelensky's Confrontation

Speaker 2

You know, 24 hours after the fact of the, of the huge spat on media on television. But I don't know, pat, I'm curious to hear what you think, because I I definitely, while watching it was like oh, whoa, that maybe dial it back. And then I was like I get what they're saying, I get what both sides are saying. And then I was afterwards just like I don't freaking know, I don't know what should have done, been differently, other than it should have just probably been like no mics, just smile and wave. Let's go into the white house office or, you know, the president's office, and then close the door and do it there yeah, the yeah, the one.

Speaker 1

yeah, this administration is rolling out tons of controversial things and rolling out lots of lots of things fast. I do think that seeing a little bit from a little bit of Zelensky's side too, as as a president too, is like he has to appear and or he has to like, represent and be strong as well, but also he's getting in. This is you know a guy who he's proven himself over the last few years as a leader in the country. But you know a guy who he's proven himself over the last few years as a leader in the country. But you know a guy who is a comedian, tv show type guy hopping in the boardroom with the apprentice.

Speaker 1

you know CEO guy like guy like um, so he's definitely gonna be out of his depth trying to like game and negotiate in that setting um especially publicly, because I think that, um, yeah, unfortunately, because, um, because it is like this was a media televised event, um, that means everybody has to be kind of playing the game full bore, you know, thinking about what I say, how I appear, what I do, versus. All right, let's, let's close the door, let's talk about these things. What are the key issues? What do you guys need? Here's what we need, here's what we're not going to do, here's what we can do.

Speaker 1

You know, and not for, and not for the sake of, not for some secrecy, backdoor deals, but for just the sake of like, turn the cameras off, like, even like on our you know, we got a little little digital radio show going here.

Speaker 1

We speak and interact differently here than we do when we turn off the record button, yeah, and that doesn't mean we're not genuine, it doesn't mean that we're not coming forward and putting stuff out there that we don't believe, like, that we don't believe in. But the way that we present things or the way that we communicate is different, is different. And so now, on a way, huge scale, when you have such a big, important meeting happening and it it taking, um, instead of having the meet and greet photo op, talk a few, talk through a few things, even talk through some real things, but then get to the nitty gritty. You know, um, with the cameras off, um, that took a turn that forced people, both on both sides, to have to posture, stand strong. And you know, frankly, Zelensky doesn't have a leg to stand on because, to Trump's point in their conversation, they wouldn't have lasted three days without US support. It would definitely not, would have lasted three years. It's been three years on the dot.

Speaker 2

That's crazy. It started. It's crazy that it's been three years bro, because I remember all of us were like, hopefully it's over in six months one way or the other.

Speaker 1

Yeah exactly, and so it's been a three-year-long war. Tons of deaths on both sides. It's a nightmare war, any of?

Speaker 1

you guys out there watching the you know the Ukrainian war footage. Come back it is. You know, it's just a nightmare. These guys are out there, really in hell, the way that they're having to fight this thing out and World War One style trench it up and really no movements being made one way or the other. At this point it's just a stagnant stalemate of young men dying. And so, yeah, zelensky does not have a leg to stand on when it comes to how he addresses the leader of the country who kept him in the game this long and really, maybe or maybe not the country that put him in power in the first place. Either Russia or America has chosen the leader of Ukraine for the last handful of presidents.

Speaker 2

Well, people will say no, no, no, it was by election. The truth is is like you look into what's going on and the NATO NATO put a ton of effort and funding into Zelensky. And if not getting, and they didn't appoint him necessarily, but zielinski was voted for and he won by.

Speaker 1

Like you know, he had like 75 of the vote and and it was one of those votes that was very similar to the 2021 with biden, which was voting against the other guy.

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, I don't know, I don't know enough.

Speaker 1

Maybe well, because because meaning the narrative was or what they're trying to do is just get put anybody in there who's not going to be a Russian puppet oh yeah, right. So that was kind of the thing of getting him in there. And not to discredit Zelinsky's, I do think people come after him too hard for, like you know, they show, they show footage of him, like his his former career as a comedian doing goofy stuff on stage and like no wonder this is such a shit show because look who's leading this country. It's like hey, listen, zelensky, you know, yeah, uh, comedian actor guy also is um is doing doing the job too.

Speaker 1

Like you know, I think lots of, lots of people like overly discredit his like leadership capability, ability to ability to also rally and win over large parts of the world. You know, I mean that's a, that's a key piece to the success of Ukraine up to this point is having the ability to have people stand by you. I mean there's still still people, there's still ukrainian flags and people's yards in america and on their um, you know whatever, on their cars and these things, you know, and so but it's the interaction. I don't think that trump or vance was out of line in the way they interacted. Um, I think they were just laying it down thick and you know what, honestly, so many people at this point in america don't have conversations like that conversation they were having. Yeah, they don't sit in a real heated, intense conversation, let alone one that's high stakes. That really does matter, um, not just economically, but in this case, you're playing with world war three.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that was the crazy scene.

Speaker 1

Yeah, the way he just like laid into him with that one yeah, and you just see, it was like it. It sounded to me like a guy who was just telling, kind of laying it out, how it was, yeah, and with the guy with the authority in the room, home field advantage and, um, all the car, like all the cards, which is what Trump said multiple times, which is we have all the cards. That was one area where I think there was a language barrier issue, where Trump's like we hold all the cards and Zensky's like we're not playing a game and I don't think I think he was like.

Speaker 1

That was a little part of the conversation where it was like Zelensky kind of thought Trump was saying like is this a game to you? He's like it's not a game to me. And Trump's saying, using American colloquism, you know, saying you know, hey, we've got the cards in our hand.

Speaker 2

And I kind of do get like I like I saw zielinski a couple post-interview conversations where he's like you know, when someone says your country is a mess and your cities are destroyed and your men are dead, I see that as insulting, that like our. But like ukraine is not gone. Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is and I could see like one. The facts are we've all seen the footage Insane destruction in cities, like there are whole villages and communities gone and erased. There are a lot of dead men. There are a lot of dead women and children. There are totally annihilated city blocks. Yeah, I get. That's not all of Ukraine. Ukraine as a people, ukraine as a nation, still stands. There are still people who wants to be there.

Speaker 2

However, let's be real, dog. When you have a nation that has an insane amount of women and children who have fled it to be asylum seekers in other nations and you're having to get homies at the border to essentially draft them into the war like you're talking about, like the annihilation of a country when people pick up and have to leave, you're talking about the annihilation of a country. And I know that's can come off as an insulting thing, I know that could be offensive, but, dude, if you want your country to return and survive, you need to start thinking in the perspective of like, okay, let's stop the damage here. And I do understand, like yep, that could be offensive to me as a leader, because there's so many men still fighting and people who gave their lives and stuff, and like there's still, like you know, people rebuilding Um and people who gave their lives and stuff, and like they're still, like you know, people rebuilding um, but it won't last that way forever. You know, if you're not, if you're not careful, and if you don't find peace and I think that's a big thing too is like a lot of people just don't want to admit it.

Speaker 2

But like the war is over, dude, russia has not lost the ground they've taken for almost over two years now. The war is done, dude. Like all that can happen now is it to become Ukrainistan. You know just a freaking drag-out fight of just constant death for the next however many years. You know 10 years, 20 years. Just like you know, know another country in the middle east that's just in constant gridlock, war.

Speaker 2

Or you can have some concession here and be like all right, russia, you keep what you got, um, and ukraine will become a member of nato, uh, but you got to return hostages and stuff and there has to be a ceasefire and there can't be any like aggressive, like acts of aggression taken on either side, um, and but like dude, it's, it's done. Man, the war is over. Russia got and russia's not also trying to advance anymore like they're, they're trying to just like hold on to what they got. Um, I still think russia's an aggressor. I still think russia's in the wrong for what they did. I think putin is in the wrong for what he did. However, like I do think ukraine also, you know, has to accept the unknown, understand like sometimes there's losers in war and like when, and ukraine has lost this war, like it's, it has lost it.

Speaker 2

It cannot win on its own, and the and trump freezing all aid to ukraine is a death knell. Yeah, like nato, europe support is not even going to be remotely enough.

Speaker 1

Um so no for sure. I was just looking at the population of ukraine. They've been. Ukraine's been in decline since 1993, which is wild, just like a steady, like other countries are, just like even north korea and like canada's climbing like, going up steady and then. But they've been in a decline. And then there is, you can see, on the date day the war started, they've lost about 10 million people of their Like have left. 10 million people have left of their yeah, was it 44 million?

Speaker 1

now they're at 37 million, but anyways, but the just wild to see it. So also, it begs the question too, in general, of what's the deal with this country for the last 30 years being in decline, like um, would be indicative of some something that definitely isn't a type of country that could stand on its own without support, and without much less against a country like russia and it's sad, dude, it's sad.

Speaker 2

I don't want to see any nations annihilated, you know what I mean? Um, I don't want to see any people's group like forced to be asylums or have to leave, um, and that's why I think, like you have to, you have to swallow the pride and accept, like there need to be concessions, same thing with russia. Russia needs to concede. And here's the thing, dude, what's the predicted death like? It's like russia's predicted casualties from this are like that was like 500 000 or something like I think that's ukraine is 500 000 alone I'll double check.

Speaker 1

yeah, I mean, it's um, it's a lot of people and you know the like you know, and then, especially early on in this, you had like some mass grave stuff going on villages getting wiped out civilian casualties and these things, yeah, and you know, what's interesting to me is a lot of people don't see this war as one that started in 2014.

Speaker 1

I really do see this as a war that started in 2014, had a long break and then really fired back up again in 2022. Um, because the this donbass region has been really something that's been fought over quite a bit, um for for quite some time. Um, yeah, are you finding any numbers over there?

Speaker 2

Um, definitely not accurate ones.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's.

The Reality of the Ukraine-Russia War

Speaker 2

that's the hard thing to know, like it's crazy because, like you know, the numbers all over the place, just because it's of course like you know, it is a war game, but, um, it looks like the russia updated its claim. This is I'm just going off of the latest wiki edits, right, uh? Mid-december 2024, russia updated its claim of ukrainian military casualties to almost 1 million killed and wounded, of ukrainian yeah, since 2022 since 2022, yeah, since this fight um, which is like no way, dude, no, no way.

Speaker 2

There was a million. Leaked US intelligence document cited the Russian FSB that Russian forces suffered 110,000 casualties by the 28th of February 2023. See, these numbers just like are so skewed and flipping back and forth Like there's no way there's been a million. There's not even been a million Ukrainian soldiers.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

A former Ukrainian prosecutor general, also a member of the opposition party, european Solidarity, said on Ukrainian television in January 24 that around 500,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed or wounded. So 500,000 casualties, casualties, not 500 000 dead, um. But yeah, so I mean, if we're looking at just like the estimates of like how many have died in total, I mean we're probably looking at close to like I'd imagine, one and a half to two million casual like casualties as a whole, you know of like dead, wounded, um and missing, and that's like not just you know military but civilians as well. Right, but it's just pretty crazy, man. It's hard to wrap your head around a number like that and like with this conflict, because I think we're so used to like you know Americans are used to like the global war on terror, that war of like 20 years and total death. Total American death toll related to that was sub 20,000. I think, if I remember correctly, and the like overall casualty was estimated to be like under 200,000, entire entirely.

Speaker 1

I have to look up the like guat numbers again yeah, yeah, it says uh stuff saying you know, basically, 7 000 americans dead yeah, g-watt stuff, but I'm thinking of total casualties, total casualties, um, total casualties, total casualties. This is a bad number. Civilians that have been killed in the GWAT 387,000 people. That's a bad number. That's how you make generational war. Yeah, no kidding. I mean yeah, not good. I mean yeah, not good, yeah 387,000 categorized as civilians.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, for Russia, ukraine, I mean, there's only two ways to go, and that's for both sides to be okay with where the kind of the lines stand and agree to them, or to just keep fighting it out yeah, you know, yeah it.

Speaker 2

I do think that ultimately, like I do ultimately agree with zielinski that whatever happens now is only good for four years, unless we have another very strong and feared like president you know what I mean. Like if, if there is a president that just comes in and, you know, somehow wins it, but it comes off soft and stuff, like there's no, there's no peace, that would be held, yeah, um. So anyways, with that um, the other thing they got people freaking, losing their minds is, uh, trump's latest like not latest I, but a tweet he let out this week about how anyone who's partaking in illegal protests will be jailed and if they're illegals they'll be ex like or not illegals, but if they're immigrants they'll be removed from the country.

Speaker 1

And this was for he was speaking specifically to colleges, yeah, colleges. He said all federal funding will stop for any college or university that allows illegal protests and that agitators will be imprisoned or sent back to their countries where they came from. And then also asking, and then saying, demanding, to not wear masks at these things.

Speaker 2

Which I saw All right. So here's my first thing on that. I'm like my first question immediately what's an illegal protest? You know how I answered that. I looked up definitions underneath covid. What protests were illegal under uh covid?

Speaker 1

those are get some rowdy legal protests then, I guess well, no, because a lot of the protests were illegal.

Speaker 2

but then there were legally sanctioned protests that were exempt, right, okay. And so I was looking at, like, how they categorize, because you know, we're not in COVID, and immediately someone's knee jerk reaction might be like Mick, you freaking tard, we're not in COVID, we're not at risk of spreading disease. Yeah, freaking tarred, we're not in covid, we're not at risk of spreading disease. Yeah, and I would say to that, yes, but the the justification they had for um, outlawing protests and specific protests and stuff during covid was due to its danger to others. Right, like a protest that becomes violent or is like a danger to to the public is now illegal it's not necessarily a riot yet, but it is because it is illegal, as well as one that damages property.

Speaker 1

And then there's a few more categories of like how protests become illegal without becoming riots, and that's what I saw like in general, that I I was scrolling the old Reddit page and it was the. Every other post was about this Trump tweet and everyone losing their freaking morals. And the number one uh like comment, like it was almost at the top of every single one of these things Everybody was liking and loving on. Um was um, like there's no such thing as an illegal protest, or so much for the first amendment. Or like these, like these are against my rights. Every protest is legal and that's what I, where I'd like to say. There's a definition of protest that is protected by your constitutional right. There's another type of protesting that's no longer protected Because you know what I can't do All sorts of stuff. There's all sorts of things you can't do Just because I don't like it. I can't just weld on a bunch of steel plates to my bulldozer and just go. You can't do that. Go in an act't do that. Go in an act of protest.

Speaker 2

It was an act of protest, right oh well, are you talking about doing something more than just welding steel plates to?

Speaker 1

the dozer, yeah, well, yeah, and then taking it out around town, and just you know I mean you can drive a bulldozer around town knocking over buildings.

Speaker 2

Oh, I think that. I think you can't knock down buildings with it.

Speaker 1

I disagree with what they believe in or how they treated me. That's true, just because I'm like, listen, big city burrito. I don't like the way that you price your burritos because that's my opinion. They're not as good as they once were, because that's my opinion. I can't just come in here and throw a brick through your window in protest. That is an act of protest. Guess what? Reddit feed people. It's illegal, so anyways, okay, I think you gotta.

Speaker 2

I think you gotta do a little bit more here to help, like, outline what makes it legal right it's like yeah it is because they're, because, I would say, throwing bricks through windows is not protests, it's rioting. I'd say it's effective.

Speaker 1

Okay, I'm not saying it's legal. I don't think it's that effective. Throwing bricks through windows. It gets people's attention. That's what I'm saying in an active protest you want to get people's attention.

Speaker 2

I'll say this hey, anyone who's listening right, throwing bricks in my window will effectively net you returning fire. I guarantee you, if I catch you throwing bricks through my window at me and my family, my first response will not be like oh my gosh, I guess I better do what they're saying. Or?

Speaker 1

like man. I really think that's beautiful what they're doing out there.

Speaker 2

If only I could do something, but it's protected underneath their first amendment exactly um, okay, here's the thing, pat you get.

Speaker 2

You do have to outline for people, because a lot of people aren't going to accept just like a blanketing, like that's not protected, right, and of course people be like well, yeah, throwing bricks through windows is rioting. It's literally like when a protest becomes an event that can cause violence or harm to others, and like by harm they mean like literal physical harm where, like if a protest on a, let's say, let's say you're protesting, but your location of protesting is literally outside a hospital, like you will be moved off property by law enforcement and you might be arrested because you're protesting, could be literally impeding life-saving measures for another individual right or um, if you're protesting on a college campus, right and um, you are getting into the point where you're barring people from accessing their resources that are provided to them and funded by the state. The state is funding this campus, so students can then be there to learn and attend class.

Speaker 2

You are actually violating their rights and therefore your speech is now inhibitive and it is no longer protected. And there's like this is not Mick making stuff up? There's a lot of precedent case law here about how, when you can protest and where, and especially when it comes to federal property. I know a lot of us think on the right-leaning, more conservative side well, if my tax is paid for it's federal property, it's public property. I should should be able to do it. Truth is is that when you're protesting on federally funded property like that, the fed government has the right to withhold your right to protest on that property and that's why permitting protest permits exist right, because you need to get a permit to protest there.

Speaker 1

So that way you're not disrupting others access to that public space. There's a war going on on the other side of the ocean between two groups of people who've hated each other and warred for a long time. But then on this college campus there's people who subscribe to the religion of the people group who's fighting over there. You know like, say, if you're a jew, um, and like people are like angry about you being. People are like no jews on this campus, yeah, and then they're like you're telling me that's not protected, protesting, and then they start like hitting you and like spitting at you, not letting you go to class.

Speaker 1

They start saying stuff like jihad, yeah. And making you hide in your dorm room yeah, um you tell me, that's not protected, that's illegal. Oh wow, that's crazy dude. I think the orange man got a little tired of on campuses some of this. There's not campus protests going on right now about seed oils in their cafeteria, which maybe they should be, but no, the protests have become violent. Lots of people have gotten hurt.

Speaker 2

Lots of people felt very unsafe on both sides, particularly on one side. I'll be honest you don't see a ton of injured people on one side. You do see a lot of Jews beat up on college campuses, but you're not seeing a lot of like the Muslim kids getting beat up.

Speaker 1

What I will say is when, when, the, when the Jewish people decide to engage, it does become violent very quickly, Like cause, it's like, it's like a I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a.

Campus Protests and Trump's Response

Speaker 2

I'll say this I've never, I've never found myself winning the art in argument with someone of like the Jewish, like faith, Like they're they're very good at arguing and very good at getting you heated up and or and or what I'm dealing with it?

Speaker 1

I don't have to. No, I'm not responding to this. Okay, now it's like the switch flips on, like I'm not dealing with this shit anymore. Or and or there's hate on that side too for the other group.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying like there's no, no, neither group doesn't have like violence or sure.

Speaker 1

but hey, on one side and far, there's a lot of, there's a lot of people, misinformed, young bleeding heart kids on college campuses who are protesting Israel and America's involvement in Gaza, and it's um, it's gone beyond protest and so Trump's like we're not doing that. Now, how do you feel about the no masks thing? Because personally, now, I'm not a protester and I will never I'll tell you right now, I'm never going to go out and protest.

Speaker 2

I won't do it.

Speaker 1

I'm not going to do it. I have other plans but the and I have other ways. I think protesting is silly and doesn't do anything, but you have the right to do it. I have the right to do it, and if I were to do it, I would feel more comfortable covering my face to hide my personal identity, whether I was on the left or the right protesting. Oh yeah, because of retaliation of the opposing side towards your viewpoint. And so let's say whatever. Let's say right now, um, you know, uh, whatever. Whoever's in charge at which point in time, whoever's in charge in the next couple of years finds your Facebook feed, finds your family.

Speaker 1

And what's's? What do you think about this? Like no, the specific part about no masks you know I mean what. If I also want to present my prevent myself from getting a disease at these protests I'll say this man, uh, the mass thing.

Speaker 2

Whenever I watch these videos of people going to these campuses, right, and they're going to, like, interview people, there's always almost always one side that's masked and it's always the side that's going to be committing more violence and doesn't want any accountability accountability, like. I never see the side that is at protests that's open to accountability and afraid like they're. They're not afraid of letting people see them being open to accountability, right, they're there. They're like hey, I believe this big enough to be out here. I want people to know this is what I stand for and I'm not going to hide my face because it's not wrong for for these beliefs, these beliefs are not beliefs I should be ashamed of and I truly believe this in my heart Like this is a moral standing ground here.

Speaker 1

Right, that's a good point. That's a good litmus test on if you find yourself going to a protest and you're like mask up, and you're like I should be wearing a mask for what I'm about to do, maybe it's an illegal protest.

Speaker 2

Maybe you're on the side that doesn't want accountability, which is a very large red flag and moral factor. Now, don't get me wrong, bro. I think if I lived, if I was somewhere like let's just I don't know, let's say like any other country in the Middle East other than Israel, or let's say I was in any let's say, I was in China, mexico, and you're you're a police office like like the police officer had to cover their face there, or people who want to speak out against the cartels, or other countries other countries no due process no legal system, yeah, where the police literally do not have the means or power to like kind of stand up and protect you, or something Right Like they're the one, they will mow you down.

Speaker 2

Yeah, um, I get that to you or something right, like they're the one they will mow you down. Yeah, um, I get that uh concept of being like all right, like mask up. I'll be honest, dude, if I was, uh, if I was like, I knew guys in college who are handing out bibles in china. They go for the summer. They'd go there for quote-unquote work and they enter in. I don't know how they would get in. They didn't just take a plane to china, but they were there and they enter in. I don't know how they would get in.

Speaker 2

They didn't just take a plane to China, but they were there and they were smuggling Bibles and handing them out and distributing them. They covered their faces, so that way, you know, it's not that hard to identify the Americans in China. But and I'm like, I get it I get it Because you're in that kind of place Now in America you're handing out Bibles, whatever. You can hand out Korans, you can burn Bibles and Korans and Torahs and all that and whatever. But in a country where I know the deep state is legitimately trying to annihilate me and my kind, I might take that precautious step of being wise and covering my face.

Speaker 1

But here's the thing. But also you know, but also you're not doing legal activity in that country, right? Yeah? So meaning back to the same thing of going and hey, I'm not saying right or wrong on the handing out bibles, but you're doing something illegal, yeah, so you better cover your face. Yeah, now that's all you know. Like, yeah.

Speaker 2

So if you're gonna be covering your face at a protest, you're probably doing it legally. I think that's our bottom.

Speaker 1

That's the bottom, hey litmus point and and like, just from a standpoint for me, I'm like, uh, maybe it's naive for me, but to be like I believe in america back in the day where men didn't cover their faces when they, when they did stuff, yeah, and then someone's like, what about those guys with the white hoods?

Speaker 2

and you're like, oh well, that was why were they doing it exactly, that's, they didn't want to be held accountable for the group they were part of.

Speaker 1

It was illegal, bro, and but, like in general, when I see people with big boots and masks on in any country throughout history, it's a bad, bad, bad sign, because either they're harming others or they've gotten to a point where they cannot trust their government. So there is the flip side to this, with which would be yeah, it is scary to go out on these protests and think, man, I can't trust my government, like hey, if the people who went to the January 6th situation knew what was going to, the repercussions that were about to happen, yeah, more than probably would have messed up. They would all covered their face Right as far as if they knew that their government was going to lock them up. Yeah, lock up the grandma.

Speaker 2

That, though, right there though, is, I think, a pretty good one of like why you look around and you're like, okay. So like you look at like the classics of like do you remember, chaz, in the chopped area in Seattle? You remember how many people got just fucking shot in the back of the head? And like, how many people died in that time? Oh yeah, it was a lot Crazy violence in these protests, and almost like you look at a ton of like almost all of like the somewhere of love, somewhere of peace riots across the country. There was always someone dying at one of these Black Lives Matter protests and riots. And look, hey, have whatever opinion you want. I could care less what your opinion is, because I know that I do believe black lives matter. I just don't support that freaking organization that wasted people's money and incited literal terrorism on the streets of, like, our cities.

Speaker 2

All that said, um, the January six riders didn't kill anyone. I think if they were playing around and killing people, they would have masked up. And the people who died there was one dude who died of a heart attack and there was one lady who got shot, and that lady who got shot got shot by Capitol Police when she was trying to get through the doors and they probably shouldn't have shot her and playing that back right. Oh yeah, no law enforcement agency has supported that shoot as justified shoot, other than the secret service itself, and so all I'm saying is look, those people got arrested, they went to jail.

Speaker 2

Had they known how they were going to get arrested and stuff and tracked down and persecuted, they probably wouldn't have come that day. They probably wouldn't have come that day. They probably would have masked up if they did show up. But the fact that none of them were really masking up shows that I bet their intentions were. They weren't afraid of being held accountable for showing up in support slash protests of what they believed and all that said. Their actions, I think, kind of matched for the most part with that notion of like yeah, we're okay with being held accountable for what's going on because you know, you watch the videos they weren't breaking in, you know. I mean, like a lot of people like they tore the place apart and I'm like they definitely picked up some stuff and moved it around, but like I recall seeing a lot of videos where the metro police were opening doors for them and ushering them through and pointing out where to go. And hey, the bathrooms are over here.

Speaker 1

Yep, yep. So anyways, as an absolutism, yeah, a couple of January sixers were masked up. Majority of those might've worked for three letter organization, but yeah, no, dude, that's.

Speaker 2

The crazy thing is when you find out how many feds in the investigation were like there that day. It's unreal.

Speaker 1

Oh, it is, it's hilarious, it's scary, no for sure. And so I don't know. You know, I think that what Trump's trying to do with that tweet is to curb these, you know these, yeah, illegal protests that are happening.

Speaker 2

Well, ironically too, legal Eagle, who is probably one of the most left-leaning YouTube channels and not even to mention, like he's easily probably the most left-leaning lawyer channel. Okay, very like he has made, Is he based is?

Speaker 1

he based?

Speaker 2

no, okay, no, he's not based, bro he has made some of the most like far-reaching silly goose arguments on like why the second amendment's not like a legal standing, like he's. He's just made some extraordinary reaches in like law stuff, but he he has a video that was nine months ago talking about the legality of the israel palestine protests on campus and how they're quote unquote potentially illegal, and he's super left-leaning, but also he's a lawyer and I'm pretty sure, if I remember correctly, that video at the end was like a lot of these are technically illegal because they don't have permits for the property that they're protesting on. They don't have the right to establish and build on those properties and they're literally like setting up camps, you know um, and permanent trying to set up, like you know, structures. Uh, they also like, technically, if they're not a student there, they don't have the legal right to be On the campus of protesting because, like, students of a campus are given Certain permissions that non-students don't have.

Speaker 2

Anyways, all that stuff, there's a lot of stuff on it. People lost their freaking mind about it. Here's my thing. Just, if you're going to protest, do it legally, and if you have a question, do it legally. And if you have a question about what that is, examine the case law. Like everyone's got phones in their pockets nowadays it's not that hard to google like how to protest legally. Call the place you're going to protest outside of, ask them hey, do I need a permit to protest on your property? And if you don't want to do that, don't be surprised if the police come and escort you off the property and take a look at the history of protesting and its efficacy and policy change.

Speaker 1

Yeah, um, the only one then that yeah, the biggest one you could think of would be civil rights movement lots of protests and that was a many years long, but that was successful.

Speaker 2

I truly believe that protest was only successful, though, because of the, you know, ability of media communication at the time, like the cutting edge news communication of, like you know, for the first time, americans all across the country were seen and receiving, like you know, radio waves of television into their homes showing them pat, peaceful, passive, uh, you know, african-americans marching and just being hosed down with water beaten down into the ground, gassed, and they just kept on marching and they were not even fighting back and the police were just beating the snot out of them and I think everyone saw that, you know, televised, and they're like oh wait, a second, this is not what people are telling me is going on. I can see now for the first time with my eyes, like what is really happening, right, and this is wrong Right, and I think that part of it too.

Speaker 2

It'd be like the I don't think those protests would have worked without television. I'll say that.

Speaker 1

I don't think they would have either, because it was so powerful. Also, i's very few people standing on this side of history looking back on that, saying that they were wrong.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I don't know one Right.

Speaker 1

I maybe met one or two outside a gas station.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 1

But for the most part it's yeah, this was, you know it was, it was a truth, where, and so, anyways, I don't know, I think protesting and I'll say this, maybe forever, maybe I'll be proved wrong someday I just think protesting is so silly, um and in in the form that we know it, as the, the picketing, the screaming, the organizing the sorrow scene. Yeah, there's other. I don't know If you want to make change, I don't know how to do it, but I just don't think it's that. And who knows what it is?

Speaker 2

I'm not sure, but there's other ways I really do like Marvin Hemeyer's method though I thought that was what's that. Oh, he was the Heemeyer's method, though I thought that was what's that. Oh, he was the guy who built the kill dozer. Oh, okay, I used. I used to think like man, what would drive a man to do that? And then I read that whole story and everything that went on and you read like, or you know, watch all the documentation of just like how the city was essentially in the pocket of one dude or a family and just totally stacked against him just because they wanted to freaking take his property and make more money flipping it and selling it. And I was just like holy shit, I could see how a man just driven to that Like if that story.

Speaker 1

And he didn't kill anyone, he didn't even go out to kill anyone, and the only, and only one person died in that whole thing, that was him and him. And if that story, I think if that story had happened in, let's say, 1810. With what? A horse, a bison, yeah, but meaning like. Here's the story the big money man came to the little farmer man trying to run him off, take his land and profit off of it.

Speaker 1

Turn it into a saloon, everything he'd ever worked and lived for, yeah, and the guy kind of he just lost it one day and went into town and tore down the post office and the jail. He didn't kill nobody, he didn't hurt a single soul, but he, he made a valiant fight on the, on the establishment, and then he died. I'm pretty sure that is a western movie, I don't know which one it is, but like you know what I mean.

Speaker 2

Like no, I get what you're saying, just just it's just optics and timing and yeah and I'll be honest, like I think it has, in time, not aged well for the portrayal that the news and gramby gave it. For people who don't know, marvin hemeyer was the dude who built his uh bulldozer with bolt proof steel on it, um, and started bulldozing towns in Granby, colorado, and it was in 2004. And the media called it the Killdozer Right away. They were the ones that signed the name, even though no one, of course, was killed.

Speaker 2

And as more details came out right, people who knew Marvin, people like got a hold of the mail, people who were doing really great independent journalism. It really turned out like this dude was, they were trying to drive him insane so he would just leave the town and they could get his property and such, and they were. They were literally doing everything could to like essentially levy fines and fees against him, uh, to keep him from getting like his property uh, handled. And it was all under like the finger of like this, essentially like one super wealthy family in granby that had cronyism to cronyism and nepotism to a seriously high degree, um, and the dude snapped.

Speaker 2

Man dude was like I have fun, and he just freaking made his dozer and started tearing down buildings, um, and I just think most people right now in the in america are not like. I'm not saying most people are going to build kill doors, but I do think most people right now are in a place mentally where they can see that and they're like you know what, if I go, if I went through three years of that with where I'm already at, I do worse, you know I mean I, I understand.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean that's right, that's right. That's what my point about like you know, the old western movie being like you could turn into a movie now and every everybody watched that that movie and be like at the end. So just heart-torn. But you can't see Sandian's kid yeah just, oh man, that man against the world, type thing, and yeah, you can get driven to these sorts of things. Oh man, I'm trying to remember if, like, I think I remember this being on the news.

Speaker 2

I remember it on the news. I was at my grandparents' house and came on and we were watching it on the news Because I was we had moved to Colorado just a couple years before.

Speaker 1

Oh really, yeah, and so I feel like I remember seeing it on the news, at least after the fact, some of the stuff of it, yep.

Speaker 2

You look at the way he welded it too and you're like gosh, damn bro, that's actually pretty well done.

Speaker 2

Like it's such a like appeasing shape, like everything is really well angled, trapezoidal, or rectangle, rectangle, um it's. It's pretty insane how well he did, um, but uh, anyways, all that said, you know, I don't think I have much else on this, pat. I think I think I think I have voiced as much as I care really about all these things, because, at the end of the day, I really saw all this and I was like I get it. People are freaking out. I understand why they're freaking out.

Marvin Heemeyer's "Killdozer" Incident

Speaker 2

I can empathize with, like, their offense to what is being said or how our leaders are behaving. At the same time, I also get why our leaders are saying these things and why they're doing them, and I don't necessarily disagree with it. I don't necessarily disagree with it. And so, at the end of the day, though, I see this as all just you know turnings, just another turning, you know another drift on our axes and part of the orbit around the sun, and like I just, I don't know, I don't think this is like anything new. I think in four years, we could have just another historic moment of that kind of stuff on TV. You know what I mean Engaging in that kind of, you know, insane media coverage. So, with all that, you know, I, I, I guess I was happy to talk about it, but I don't really have any more to add, you know.

Speaker 1

No, yeah, I mean, and like one one one thought I had about it was here's the deal trump said he was going to end these wars. He's got it, he's got to follow up on it. Right, but meaning he didn't. He didn't say how or what, but he says he's gonna end him yeah and he's sternly making moves towards you, wrapping up bloodshed and some of these things.

Speaker 2

You know I was really thinking about it a lot when, like they're like we're not going to compromise, you know Zelensky saying he's not going to compromise and Trump and Vance are yelling at him and then post that interview Zelensky's, like you know, I was offended because the people have died and we're not going to compromise because we can't trust Russia, because the people have died and we're not going to compromise because we can't trust russia. All I could think about, over and over man, was that footage of those two guys who had no business crossing paths, just their ukrainian soldier and that mongolian russian soldier, like conscript, and their fight to the death, both stabbing each other, biting each other's hands and at the end of it, you know it's like. You know, leave me in peace, let me die. You know you're the best fighter I've ever met, brother, and they both call each other brother as they die. Well, as one dies and then the other one probably died later from his wounds walking off.

Speaker 2

I just want, like peace for those dudes Like I, that I'm like those are two dudes who have no desire to be there.

Speaker 2

Those are two dudes who were like, who should have never been there in the first place, and I really just want those dudes and the dudes who have fucking seen that shit and gone through it to just have peace and be able to, like, go home, die of old age surrounded by people who love them, because it's fucking ugly dude, I you know I'm sorry for swearing but, like for those of you who don't understand, like if you don't have you, if you haven't seen this footage, I think it will drastically change your point of view of like, yeah, it needs to stop, dude, it needs to stop. That's like the most insane, insanely brutal, violent stuff I've ever seen in my life. No movie compares to it. Uh, to seeing like the real visceral, like fighting for your life and having to take someone else's, and I just don't want that anymore. For those guys, you know, I want them to go home to their women and children and have peace Both of them. I don't give a shit which country they're from yeah, and that's the.

Speaker 1

and some people might disagree with this and I would maybe disagree with myself, but would be like who cares if a border moves 20 miles this way or that way, as far as, on the individual level, the dude with the farm still farming, making the crops? You know, what the big deal is. In some ways, it's which government or country is collecting on those, all those crops or something.

Speaker 1

Or a port city and those things, and it's obviously more complicated than that. But, like some of these places, where stuff's changed, the people aren't, people's languages aren't changing. Their families can still do what they're doing. You know, and I realize I'm oversimplifying it as a conclusion, but just to bring things from you know what's the point of moving borders and wars? To bring things from you know what's the point of moving borders and wars. It's not so that that family right there could have a better life. It's so that somebody else in a city way far away who makes decisions that you have no say in, can profit yeah, and that's what war is and has been for a long time. Yeah, can profit, you know, and that's and that's what war is and has been for a long time. Yeah, so it's a um, yeah, the on that individual level it does. It's got to end.

Speaker 1

A lot of people out there hurting that way. And you know the other maybe the last little piece I have was this of this is when I was watching trump lay into zelensky, he raised his voice. He did that's like the main thing I've seen. Yeah, the words raised his voice. Well, how dare anybody raise their voice if they care about something If they want to get serious. Listen people. I'm sorry that maybe your mom never yelled at you or I'm sorry maybe she yelled too much, but the deal is. Is is like sometimes you got to hear how it is and someone can get passionate and raise their voice and lay it down. And I don't agree with everything.

Speaker 2

Trump does not particularly his biggest fan, but at the same time here's the deal.

Speaker 1

Uh, what I saw was a lot of people with a complete inability to take criticism, like the individuals commenting and talking about the stuff people with it in in themselves complete inability to take criticism, be yelled at, tell when they're done wrong, and then um project that onto their comments about watching him.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah, yeah he triggered you.

Speaker 1

He triggered you and I'm sorry because he raised his voice. I'm sorry, we don't raise our voice here.

Speaker 2

No, I want to raise the voice. Bro. If you're the leader of my country, I want you to be a mean, mean, mean bulldog.

Speaker 1

I want you to be meaner than a junkyard dog and I want you to be meaner than a junkyard dog and I want you to have compassion too, because the pendulum swings both ways. The most kindest, most generous people I know they will freaking let it rip on the other side too. Thanks, man, appreciate that.

Speaker 1

You know, but you know, I mean, I don't know if you've seen that too and like in men who are sure of themselves, who have the ability to, and just for just as deep as someone's compassion can go and kindness and gentleness, they can ramp it the other way Speak softly, carry a big stick, kind of stuff, yep, and speak up when it's time you know, and so um, yeah, yeah I think, uh, I think that's kind of what I think well.

Speaker 2

Hey, ken, thanks for joining us. We appreciate you. As always, please check out our links. They are usually to an affiliate or sponsor of the channel. Uh, whether it's our Amazon store page, where we list products we like to buy and support, or it's to Primary Arms, whatever you do, don't click the link to Primary Arms and use that link to get a discount on your products and see their latest deals, because YouTube doesn't like it if we tell you to go through there, because there may be firearm-related things on that website. So if you're looking for that, whatever you do, don't click the link. And, as always, thank you for joining us. We love you. We appreciate you. Please be considerate of one another. Remember we're kin, you know, and Pat any sign-off Till next time.

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Mick

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Pat

Co-host