Brews N' Reviews - Warfare; Back in the Day

What does war truly feel like from the inside? Forget everything Hollywood has taught you and prepare for "Warfare," Alex Garland's groundbreaking, unflinching immersion into modern combat that will forever change how you think about war films.

In 2006 Ramadi, a routine surveillance mission for a Navy SEAL team transforms into a desperate fight for survival when an attack shatters their operation. Co-directed by former Navy SEAL Ray Mendoza, who lived through these events.

The film's power comes from what it refuses to do. There's no orchestral score manipulating your emotions, just the terrifying reality of combat sounds. There are no convenient villains or neat moral lessons, just the chaos and confusion of real warfare. And most surprisingly, there's no glorification of killing—this isn't a movie about stacking bodies, but about the raw human experience of combat.

Don't miss this landmark achievement in war cinema—see it in theaters where the immersive sound design and visceral cinematography deliver the full impact of this extraordinary experience. "Warfare" isn't just a movie; it's a document of what it means to face combat in the modern age.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:52

we ride together we die together.

Speaker 2 0:55

Bear boys for life. Get busy living or get busy dying gang first last.

Speaker 1 1:04

Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?

Speaker 3 1:13

Welcome to Brews and Reviews with Mick and Pat. I'm Mick and I'm Pat, and each week we sit down with you degenerates to pretend we're certified Cicerones and Cinephiles.

Speaker 2 1:24

That is right. So grab a cold one and join us as we review Back in the Day by Casey Brewing and the movie Warfare.

Speaker 1 1:38

And if you've been with us before. You know what time it is. Release the Kraken.

Speaker 2 1:47

Shit. Sorry, it's my fault, we're out of practice.

Speaker 3 1:53

I was behind because I totally fumbled the mug. I thought I just broke our mug. That's a nice golden color. This is West Coast IPA, right.

Speaker 2 2:05

West Coast IPA. So we're not uncouth here, we're not.

Speaker 3 2:10

Visigoths. Do they even make East Coast IPAs? I can't recall a quote-unquote East Coast IPA.

Speaker 2 2:20

I don't know, I don't know, if you go east enough, you get to the original in India.

Speaker 3 2:29

Just the IPA. Yeah, because that's the thing. Right, it became pale ale because it had to go from the east coast of america across the atlantic to india, like going down around africa. By the time I'd get there, the sun would do something the sun had like just yes, sat on one side like right the skunky beer. Yeah and all yes sat on one side, right the skunky beer. Yeah, and all of that beer was on one side of the ship.

Speaker 3 2:58

You know, the north side of the ship, north facing side of the ship. So if it's on the West coast, then it's a shorter journey and it's not going to get as hoppy.

Speaker 2 3:10

That's true. I like it. I think that's why it's called that, whether it is or not.

Speaker 1 3:16

That's what we're sticking with here.

Speaker 2 3:17

Yeah, all right, so we haven't done this brewery before. This brewery is Casey Brewing and Blending, because they also do some whiskeys as well. Oh and or is it? Yeah, they do. Yeah, they have all sorts of stuff going on. They've got a barrel cellar, or maybe it's wine. Sorry, it's wine, not whiskey, that they're doing.

Speaker 3 3:42

Wait is beer their main thing, or is it not their main thing? Cause that will greatly affect my judgment.

Speaker 2 3:45

I think beer is the first thing on their list there and it looks like Then I'm going to be just as harsh. Yeah, but I, because I think also it's like it is their main, yeah, like. But I think they use their own wine barrels for a lot of their like sours, uh, for their other stuff.

Speaker 2 4:04

I might be totally messing this up. Let's see what. What does this say about them? Here the uh, about their uh, their process? Here they uh, oh, casey brewing and blending they go. They're using, uh, old world techniques to bring it to the modern day consumer and they, uh, their beers are created with 99 local colorado ingredients. Um, colorado, yeah, oh, because this is in colorado, because they are out of glenwood springs yeah, okay, all right.

Speaker 3 4:36

So local Colorado ingredients Colorado? Yeah, oh, because this is in Colorado, because they are out of Glenwood Springs. Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 4:39

Sorry, I was confused because I'm like I thought they were California, right, right, so yeah, so no, not the West, so it's a West Coast IPA style, but local brewery to Colorado. And to read the can here, I don't see any ABV or IBU. I don't see any numbers on here Non-alcoholic, huh yeah right. We'll see after We'll see in a little bit We'll give our own personal.

Speaker 1 5:03

That's got it in it, I'm feeling nothing.

Speaker 2 5:19

But basically you know this fella, he started just experimenting with brewing, troy Casey, back in 2013,. He was doing years of experimenting with oak barrel aging and using wild yeasts and bacterias and things, and then he started a brewery where he could wholly focus on 100 oak barrel fermentation. So I think, yeah, that's their main deals barrel fermentation and beers right there.

The Art of Beer Tasting

Speaker 3 5:49

I do immediately not think of an IPA when I drink it, whatever that says about how you know you do fermentation in the barrels and such Also interesting. You know if he's doing wine and using the, what are they called Wine casks? Right, are they called casks Fooders? You know they call wine the barrels that they age wine in fooders. If he's using wine fooders and making IPAs, that's pretty interesting. I don't know anyone else who's doing that.

Speaker 2 6:20

Well, now I'm feeling like I might be totally wrong about the wine piece. I thought I saw some wine bottles on this website. It might just be beers. It might just be beers aged in oak barrels. Is the deal? Fermented in oak barrels, I guess, would be the? Yeah, I'm not seeing any wine option. So beer's the thing. Beer's the thing, and this beer in particular. Back in the day it says it is a West Coast-style IPA brewed with malt wheat and golden promise and a touch of carafoam. I don't know what carafoam is. I don't know what golden promise is. I think golden promise is the type of malted wheat they're using that citra hops, then some Simcoe hops. They're using that Citra hops, then some Simcoe hops, and then I don't know, depending on if you're from Tejas or not, how you say this word, but I'd say they're using some Amarillo hops. But if you're a little further south, it's Amarillo. I don't know.

Speaker 2 7:25

I'm not sure how these people are saying it, but anyways, that's what we got going on here. Just once again, another IPA. I think that it's time to tell you what we think about it. Well, after we taste it a little harder.

Speaker 3 7:44

Yeah, the swish test. Are you referencing the famous McMouth swish test? I am as a matter of fact, take a tablespoon amount into your gullet. This is how you guys do the swish test. You know, if you're kin, you've been here. Uh, swish it around, uh, uh, from side to side. Let it roll over the top of your tongue, the sides of your tongue under your tongue. Splash your tongue in it. You know, flick your tongue against the root of your tongue under your tongue, splash your tongue in it.

Speaker 3 8:12

You know, flick your tongue against the roof of your mouth and up and down and then let all of it get in front of your tongue and push your tongue so you push the beer through the front teeth. You know really foamy, sudsy feeling and that should really aerate it and give you everything you need to know about the beer.

Speaker 2 8:30

With the swish test, I'm going to gonna go ahead, do it while pat tells you all what he's thinking after doing the swish test I'm I don't know it, my, my tongue just has that bitter, numb like, like, like where you taste it, kind of like I just ate an aspen leaf. You know that kind of that bitter I've never eaten an aspen leaf so well. As a matter of fact, the indigenous people use them to cure headaches I thought that was.

Speaker 3 9:02

I thought that was like birch bark and aspen tree bark, not leaves hey I was munching those leaves.

Speaker 2 9:08

I'll tell you what it gets rid of your headache because you just for your mouth tastes so bad, you forget your head hurt yeah, um, yeah it definitely brings up the bitterness of the hops.

Speaker 3 9:19

For sure. That definitely brings out way more of the bitter flavor. Usually I feel like with ipas a switch test always almost brings out a you know grainy dog food taste like the smell of kibbles, or it brings out that citrusy, fruity flavor of an ipa, and this one it doesn't really have either.

Speaker 3 9:43

Yeah, it's just. It's just like the, the you know bitter barley hops flavor. Um, I don't know, I don't hate it. There is a note of like that kind of almost, almost like burnt caramel, like too dark of caramel, which I think that's the carafoam in it.

Speaker 2 10:02

It's drum roasted caramel malt that you put in the beer.

Speaker 3 10:07

I will tell you what. It only feeds my ego when I take a scientific wild ass guess to what that taste is, and it's exactly what it is. I'm with Cisarone man. We've been doing this a minute.

Speaker 2 10:18

I'm freaking Cis and the, but I think the only thing you can taste is maybe that I guess it must be carafoam like caramel foam, I don't know, Not serafoam like caramel foam, I don't know, not serif foam, but anyways, the. Um, I feel like this tastes like the, maybe like the foundation of an IPA without like. There's no like. More, there's no like. Oh, wow, I can really taste that citrusy or this hopsy or the dog kibble. It just tastes like there's. I don't know. I'm wondering if it tastes like it was canned a long time ago, Was it? I was trying to look, but I couldn't find it.

Speaker 3 11:03

Oh yeah, I don't see a date anywhere. You know, At the bottom, though, the can has an engraving that looks like it says 36.

Speaker 2 11:11

Yeah, mine says T3 or 73 oh really e e f mine says 36 or, oh, mine says 31 and it's underlined, there we go, that's 36 underlying yeah, so interesting. I mean it must be like a can, but anyways, I don't know.

Speaker 3 11:36

Wait, is it named Casey? Because someone's name is Casey.

Speaker 2 11:39

Troy Casey.

Speaker 1 11:41

Tyler Casey Troy.

Speaker 2 11:42

Casey is the guy.

Speaker 3 11:46

Nice, you know, man, it's not bad, but after the first one, it not what I would like grab out of the cooler again if I had other options. I will also say this as someone who doesn't like ipas. I've been having an insane amount of ipas lately. Oh yeah, like I just did two different ipa packs, one from stone brewing because it was on sale. They were like the liquor store was just getting rid of a bunch of them, and I can't remember the other one. It was an IPA sample pack.

Speaker 3 12:23

I got to look it up and try to find it, but both of them cover like the full gamut of possible flavors you can have with an IPA before it just gets to really bad. And some of them are pretty good, but like you know what I mean, like most of them are like just ipas, um, and this tastes like it could just be any one of those in there. I guess it's very hard for me to like identify this. It's very hard for me to like identify this amongst the other ones I've been having recently. Um, and if, like, honestly, if I had this one, I'd just grab probably the um, uh, what is it? Stone, uh, lion, uh, no, film, movie, lions, beer, fml stone fml ipa I really like that one a lot.

Speaker 3 13:18

Um, you know, actually I just see here I didn't think about it it does remind me of bells. It feels like it would fit immediately in one of the bells ipa packs.

Speaker 2 13:27

Like it does remind me of the bells beer yep, I think I don't say I think price on this is like I think it was like 14 for four kind of thing. It's kind of pricey. So that's what it's like four pack.

Speaker 3 13:44

As far as the uh, if it's because it's kind of advertised as pretty craft, you know yeah, yeah like maybe, uh, maybe a true brewing type of oh yeah, like the moment you say that, though I get so much more harsh with my judgments, like the moment, you're like 14 bucks for a four pack. I'm like yeah, I feel like that's pretty standard. And you're like it's also what we pay for a four pack of. True.

Speaker 2 14:08

I'm like this is shit, this is garbage oh, so I'm ready for my, I'm ready for my thumb report all right, all right go ahead. What are you giving it? I'm giving it one thumb down, oh really, yeah, um, please, here's the deal. You can um, that's not just going off a price point, but you can definitely for half the money, get a lot better. The beer Like just from. I think any standard brewery's IPA is just better than this one, really.

Speaker 3 16:20

Okay.

Speaker 2 16:21

There's not. It's just just doesn't have that it thing. And I don't even know what that it thing is, but I know it when I taste it, Sure, and so you know it's like not horrible, Not, wouldn't you know.

Speaker 3 16:35

I mean, one thumbs down is like it's almost like you gotta try to get it.

Speaker 2 16:41

I will say I would've done if it wasn't so expensive. I would have given it a straight no thumb yeah, but because they're trying to play in that upper echelon game, it feels like demoted.

Speaker 3 16:54

Yeah, now that you say that, though and I remember what I got these sampler or variety 12-packs for Like $20 or whatever. I think the stone variety 12-pack was on sale for like 16 bucks. Right For 12 different stone beers. It's yeah, all right, you say that, and it swayed me. I was going to go no thumbs as well, but now I'm going one thumb down. All right, here you go, there you guys have it From the Mickey Pat Show Brews and Reviews.

Introduction to the Movie Warfare

Speaker 3 17:31

But from the Mickey Pat Show Brews and Reviews, good old Casey Brewing and Blending back in the day, west Coast style IPA gets two thumbs down, and it's not because it's a bad taste or it tastes gross, please don't misunderstand us. It's just because for the cost you can get better IPAs from other breweries. Oh, in a real West Coast IPA this is the one I got the Firestone California Beer Company, firestone Walker Brewing Company, their IPA variety pack of four different IPAs. This tastes like it could have been any one of them kind of mixed together with each other, and they have four very, very strong IPAs in that pack like really, really good ones.

Speaker 3 18:15

So, all that said, I kind of want to, though, taste more from them.

Speaker 1 18:19

Yep, you know what I mean. I want to try more from Casey.

Speaker 2 18:22

Casey's not out. Yeah, no, just this one's out for, for the cost you know, right, get it on sale.

Speaker 3 18:28

It's a no thumber yeah it's no thumbs down if you get it on sale for like 8.99 for a four pack, because they're it's not moving. But uh, I wouldn't payi. Wouldn't pay full price for it sorry sorry I love you guys.

Speaker 2 18:41

Support local business, but I think we'll bring old Casey Brewing back for a rematch with something else and I think the IPA game is so littered and overpopulated.

Speaker 1 18:56

It's really hard to stand out.

Speaker 2 18:57

So I think that we need to give it one or two more shots on some different, because he does have some other like he has a lot of beers actually and pretty unique list of these other kind of looks like maybe more his style in these, like you know, really focused on the barrel aged, barrel, fermented stuff and so like more fruity, and so we'll see, we'll have to.

Speaker 3 19:25

You know what I want? I want to have like a showdown between a bunch of like craft breweries, like we pick we pick like our top five craft brewers. Actually we do like top 10, so that way it can be bracketed and we just, we just give them like a an open top, like ceramic pot, and it's like make beer and like they have to like just leave it open to get rain and like just fester over.

Speaker 3 19:55

It's going to be like the judge trying to make gunpowder there's going to be bird shit in it and there, dude, I just want to see it because you know that's going to be like the most authentic, like who's the scrappiest, like first man beer, like walked out, and he's like my, my plant water is foamy today. What's going on? He's like it kind of smells like this yeah weird let me take a sip of this.

Speaker 3 20:21

Oh my gosh, oh, it tastes awful, but I feel funny, I do. Yeah, I do wonder, like what the first alcohol content was of, like the first beer accidentally made, definitely, and uh, it's funny.

Speaker 2 20:36

I thought you're gonna see we're gonna get them all in the room for like a like a death match that is a death match. But back to the roots, yeah but but with um, but where I think that are the, the savagery of true would maybe come through. So I don't think I will say this I don't think those guys are as metal and as tough as the pictures on their t-shirts did you go to the no?

Speaker 3 21:00

no, I just think I think they're.

Speaker 2 21:02

I think they're probably cool guys. I'm just saying like I don't know if they're like, if they're like big warrior, like types, or if they're just kind of like.

Speaker 3 21:11

They're just like I like email metal distorted guitar and like and like gross pictures I will say that when I was there there was a couple bartenders that didn't look like they gave two craps about metal or anything. Yeah, they're just like keeping a job at denver. And then there's a lot of people at their uh tap room for the chicken, because music city chickens are dope um. But I did see on their website there were some dudes who looked dudes and ladies who look more metal like, honestly, I'd be more scared of the women yeah, oh yeah like some of the girls I saw there, I'm like she's like the, like the boss right before the final boss at the end of a resident evil movie.

Speaker 3 21:56

Like she looks like she's about to pull katanas out and stab me, um and uh, yeah, I'd be more afraid of the women they submit than the dudes. All that said, though, war fighting warfare, warfare.

Speaker 2 22:14

I was, no, I was, I was, I was given the I was, I wasn't I was given a longer segue, I would say we're talking about fighting. I was like war, fighting like it's in the movie warfare, warfare okay, all right.

Speaker 3 22:28

Hey, warfare, the movie. It came out, uh, rather recently and I think it's done really well in theaters. From what I understand. I think a lot of people got off their bus to go see it, but it's pretty much already almost done in theaters. There's been a lot of announcements that it's leaving soon. So if you want to see it which you know, if you're going to see it, the cinematic movie big loudspeakers is the way to do it. For sure, this is, this is one of those movies where you will like it's like top gun, right, you want to feel the jet engines in your belly, and so if you're gonna go see this movie, go and see it in theaters, not at home, unless you have a, you know, great headset or a surround sound at home.

Speaker 3 23:10

But uh, warfare is, uh, a movie directed by alex garland, who we like here. We've reviewed and talked about a lot of stuff just last week. We're talking about his new movie coming out 28 months later, or 28 years later, sorry, 28 years later, um, but he directed originally 28 days later did civil war, which we just discussed recently, uh, one of my favorite movies, dread uh, which is, you know, the comic book adaptation of judge dread um, and then ex machina, which is a movie I really enjoyed, and then annihilation, which is a movie we also did a bruising reviews on, which I don't know if pat remembers, because I enjoyed that movie and pat, I think, doesn't recall it because his brain has been annihilated. Which movie? Annihilation?

Speaker 2 24:00

natalie portman and the yes, going to the area, I was like I could not remember what that was to save my life and in this movie there's also the co-director, ray Mendoza.

Speaker 3 24:17

Ray Mendoza is a retired Navy SEAL. He and Alex synced up on Civil War where he was the coordinator for a lot of actual like military operation scenes, such as the final push on the White House and then the push through the White House to get to the president, and so Alex Garland was like hey, man, this guy really knows his stuff. And in shooting that, ray Mendoza and Alex talked and I was like you know, I really want to do just an honest, honest, no, like fluff at all, just accurate, one-to-one depiction of what it was like to be, you know, in a battle in war. So that way people get like the truth. And I want it to be like one-to-one, to the experience of those who are there and have multiple eyewitness accounts testifying like down to every detail.

Speaker 3 25:11

And ray mendoza's like well, dude, I was a navy seal in ramada. Like we got stuff we can do. You know, I got, I got plenty of scenes we could do um, and he, he decided to. Actually, you know, they made the argument to do this um because ray was like hey, I got a guy who was you know, they made the argument to do this because Ray was like hey, I got a guy who was, you know, injured, his name's Eric.

Speaker 1 25:30

Elliot, elliot, sorry, elliot.

The Authentic Opening Scene

Speaker 3 25:42

And Elliot was injured to the point where, like through the bravery and the you know commitment that was there on those days, to kind of really get him out and get him taken care of, and so that's why this movie is dedicated to Elliot, even though Elliot's not dead. No-transcript Top cast is this new guy around the block, the Pharaoh Woon Aitai. The Pharaoh Woon Aitai he DeFaro Woon-Ai Tai. He played Ray Mendoza in the film. I haven't seen anything else he's been in and I'm pretty sure he's just kind of very new on the block.

Speaker 2 26:34

Yeah, the only thing I haven't seen it but I've actually wanted to see is Reservation Dogs.

Speaker 3 26:38

Oh, he's in Reservation.

Speaker 2 26:39

Dogs. It's a show and I don't know if he has a big role in it or not.

Speaker 3 26:42

I didn't even see he had credit on that.

Speaker 2 26:44

I don't know if it was a big role or not, or if he's in one episode. I don't want to watch that show. It's basically about life on the reservation Native American life. Did you know it was based off of?

Speaker 3 26:54

the true story of those kids who made films in their parents' house on the res because their parents wouldn't let them leave house on the res because their parents wouldn't let them leave. And it was like native americans, kids who would just watch the vhs's and then reenact them on t like in there with their cam quarter have you heard of it?

Speaker 2 27:13

I'll send you the video afterwards. Pretty crazy, um, but the I listened to an interview with the direct the director writer of that show too. He's pretty interesting guy. But anyways, all that to say, I want to check out that show. I haven't watched it at all yet. Have you seen any of that show?

Speaker 3 27:27

no, I, I was. I was excited to watch it, just never. I kind of came out right as I quit watching, like any real cable and I also just really shrunk with down my steering surfaces. So I don't, I didn't see it, but um, also in the cast top bill cast is will poulter. Uh, he plays eric, who is a? Um, essentially a commanding. I don't think he's an officer, I think he's a sergeant, right, I think he was he an officer?

Speaker 2 27:57

he would have been an officer. He was an officer.

Speaker 3 27:58

Yeah, he would be an officer um, but he uh commanding officer of this uh steel team five team, um, and then, uh, michael Gandolfini, who is son of the legendary James Gandolfini and he played Lieutenant McDonald, uh, who was one of the uh Marine J tax attached to the team, which is crazy, cause you see him and you're like man, kind of recognize that guy's eyes, I kind of recognize his nose. Yeah, man, I kind of recognize that guy's eyes, I kind of recognize his nose, yeah, and then you find out it's freaking james gandolfini's kid, uh, which is awesome. Um, cosmo jarvis I loved cosmo jarvis in, uh, the most recent uh big hit show on fx. It was uh shogun, and cosmo jarvis like just crushes that show. It's a one-season show for anyone who's not looking for a big commitment. It's one season, 10 episodes and it's about, you know, the Portuguese and Spanish explorers that got to Japan and Cosmo Jarvis, I believe, if I remember correctly, plays a like pirate tier. Jarvis, I believe, if I remember correctly, plays a like pirate tier who found Japan, um, for the English, and he's trying to essentially like build an alliance between the English and Japan, uh, to defeat the Portuguese, Uh. But anyways, great show. Cosmo Jarvis here, excellent, I loved him Uh he, he was just a standout knockout guy.

Speaker 3 29:24

Um, I think he's also in one of my. I think he's the lead for one of my favorite movies called Upgrade. It's like an indie action film where, like, a little AI chip gets implanted and takes over his neuro system and, like, makes him fight without him having any control over his body. It's a very gory violent film film but it's pretty sick. He's kind of. For a while he was known as, like the the poor man's um, oh, what's our boy from? Uh, the revenant tom hardy. He was a four-year-old man. It was like the poor man, tom hardy he did look like.

Speaker 3 29:58

He does look like him a little bit yeah, I think he looks like him a lot.

Speaker 3 30:01

Yeah, um, and then, uh, taylor jones smith is the other one that I kind of felt was like the top builder, like most lines screen time uh, who plays frank. He was, uh, the fellow sniper to cosmo jarvis's elliot um on the team or like overwatch, I guess you could say um, but anyways, that's kind of, uh, most of the top cast there and the directors, and the plot for warfare is essentially, you immediately follow a platoon of Navy SEALs on a surveillance mission and the surveillance mission is in Ramadi, which is in Iraq, iraq at the time. Yep, and it's pretty. I won't say you're following them minute to minute because there are a couple time jumps of hours, but once shit hits the fan, it is minute to minute. It's like there is no skipping, there is no couple hours later. It's just like holy shit, this is heart pounding and it's not breaking away and it's not giving you a break. Uh, but it was pretty awesome, um, and so you just really feel like you're there with them, um, and the cool thing is that it's all.

Speaker 3 31:17

Uh, it was all written and filmed from the perspectives of the team who was going through this, and every scene had to have two verified eyewitnesses to verify everything that happened and so if a scene didn't have like two guys that were like all right, yeah, we both remember this happening, they're like all right, let's just focus on a different pov, because you'll see like it's absolutely chaotic and there's definitely going to be lapses in a lot of dudes minds, where you need to fill that, lapsed like man.

Speaker 3 31:51

I don't really remember what's happening now that I was just so focused. Yeah, and then you need to focus on the POV of, like you know, a couple other guys to get a full perspective. But I will say, before we get into spoilers if you are expecting a classic American sniper Operation Red Wing, lone Survivor or even Saving Private Ryan, I would say leave those expectations at the door.

Speaker 1 32:20

This is not that film.

Speaker 3 32:28

And I know this may turn some people off from seeing it, but I don't think you see a single insurgent killed. I think you see a couple of them possibly take rounds, but this is not a film about killing bad guys and you need to set that expectation down now. I I I did have that expectation going in and I will say I was still very, uh, satisfied and blown away by what I did see.

Speaker 2 32:54

But I could see how you'd be disappointed if you're like what the hell, if you thought it was gonna be, just thought it was gonna be rambo, yep um.

Speaker 3 33:01

So all I said we're gonna get into spoilers. If you want to see the movie, go see it, um, but uh, we're gonna start talking about, you know, our favorite scenes and stuff and how the movie was filmed in the POV process and you know the choices they made. So if you care about spoilers, check out now. Yeah, all right, pat, um dude the opening. Yeah, that was. Uh, that was awesome. Like I was so stoked at first.

Speaker 3 33:30

I was really confused because it was, it was literally, you're in the wrong theater for a second, yeah, I was like they're playing the wrong film right, and like the guy I went and saw it with, he was like no man, this is just the opening.

Speaker 3 33:40

I was like weird, it's like a vhs grainy, like I didn't expect it to take like the vignette uh, vignette vhs film effect and then I realized it was like oh, this is a music video, this is like an old 2000s music video to that song, that one song. What is that song? And uh, what's it called a call on me, call on me, yeah man. I kept on thinking it was come on me. Call on me, yeah man. I kept on thinking it was come on me and I was like I know that's not right, but it was a pretty sexual recording that music video could have been.

Speaker 3 34:12

Yeah, come on me.

Speaker 1 34:19

All right.

Speaker 3 34:20

Sorry, no, I did not know. Like as a kid who grew up, know a 90s kid right and really hit the prime of my youth in the two early 2000s and watched every single music video I could watch on yahoo music or comcast music or aol or youtube, uh, I had never seen that music video ever in my life, but I I know that song call on me like.

Speaker 3 34:45

I mean, we jammed to it in the car all the time, especially like I remember when I was going to youth group and it would start out. We're like bopping our heads in the car because, like our couple of our high school friends are driving as we're going to the movie theaters yeah, you know what I mean, or wherever.

Speaker 3 35:02

we're being hood rats that night and and just like they do in that opening scene, it just takes off and you're rocking the car and you're bouncing around and you're trying to break your friend's suspension and he's just like trying to pay attention and dude, that scene just was awesome. Like immediately got my blood hyped and I immediately thought these men love each other. These men love each other more than almost anything else in the world.

Speaker 2 35:33

These dudes think everyone around them is a stud and they're just in the prime of their life? Yeah, because it is. And I had a very similar reaction watching it start. I was like okay, and I kind of caught on a little bit quickly. I was like I was like I w, it was like two seconds of like wait, what the heck? And then I was like oh, like, oh, this is 2006.

Speaker 2 35:52

A long time ago, okay, like I'm like oh, this is dudes in a deployment watching sexy ladies, like cause, what else are you going to do, you know? And then it clicked and then it like showed those guys and like as hard of a play, like um, as horrible as war is and all this stuff and what you're going through, the um also, that time in your life when you are 18 to 25 is like those prime years of camaraderie and like friendship and like this, like you know that the big dreams and closeness and feeling like you have your crew and like and I actually I it's funny of all these uh, scantily clad workout ladies are like gyrating. I was actually. I teared up right out the gate. Really, I teared up immediately. Why? What was the trigger? I wasostalgia. No, it was the love you saw for those guys, for each other.

Speaker 2 36:49

And I just was like oh fuck.

Speaker 3 36:52

Who's?

Speaker 2 36:53

gonna die Exactly. And I do think something they did really well in this movie was actually cast very young people as well, because usually you have guys in their 30s as operators, you know, and like they're like you know, and they're like burly and buff and like in it, and there are those guys for sure, but lots of Navy SEALs are, like you know, children 20, 22.

Speaker 2 37:16

Like you know, with huge expectations and huge hearts. But so I was just like I saw that and I just was, like it struck me. I just was like, oh man, like it was. It was half like tears of happiness and tears of like sorrow just in the same moment. Just like, oh man, like they don't even know what's coming for them and this is awesome, you know it was.

Speaker 2 37:36

but immediately I was emotionally grabbed into this movie, just like right off the bat, right out the gate, where um and where um, and it was it, it, it just put you this movie, I think.

Speaker 2 37:50

Basically I felt like I was in there the whole time, like it just immediately pulled you right into what was going on in there and because you knew what this movie was going to be about. At the very least, you knew it was going to be about fighting in iraq and but just, these guys are like fist bumping and dancing and goofing around, but they're in their gear and have their guns. So, like you know, like this movie is not about being happy and slapping ass, you know, and like all this stuff, and so I thought that was a, I thought it was awesome and you know, typically this would have been what you would do on base, like you're either out fighting or sitting around with your buddies being like and like and like. At this time, like really no real internet, it's just like, hey, like, play the play the vhs again oh yeah, you know, bro, can you?

Speaker 3 38:38

I mean, I think the video I played over and over back in 2006 was some like flash video you know I mean, it was like a, it was like an animated flash stick figure fight video right you know? You know that's exactly what all these guys were watching, plus like whatever, like low bit, like thing they could stream the maya.

Speaker 2 38:59

He yeah, that guy dancing dude oh, you know what it was.

Speaker 3 39:02

It was, uh, the freaking frog guy, crazy frog crazy frog. Yeah, yeah, exactly um, yeah, no kidding, yeah, that's 100, it was um anyways. Uh, yeah, it was pretty sick. Um, I loved it and for that scene too cool little bit of trivia here. They filmed it three different takes and they just did it like super low energy, like chilling, vibing, the other one's like kind of buddy, buddy, bump, bumping. Medium energy, like doing a slight dance kind of like, kind of like the um, what is it?

Speaker 1 39:36

Uh, uh, hitch like, keep it here, keep it in here, keep it here.

Speaker 3 39:41

This is your space, and then they did high energy, like bounce around, shake each other, borderline, mosh Right, and uh, and then that's just what they cut it with, like they just cut the three together because like, yeah, these are all. Like, this is the way it is, this is the way it was building up. Um, so yeah, I, I really thought that was a great opening. And then, like, when you see, like there is a level of whoa, whoa, this got real fast. Because when they're doing their nighttime reconnaissance and moving into the ops, and they're moving into op one, two or three and deciding which house is which I can't remember whose character was to who right, because they're all in nods and it's dark, but he's like hey, and then he starts doing the like holding his rifle and hip thrust, just like the practice in the music video.

Speaker 3 40:37

And then his other friend kind of starts leaning forward slowly and like lengths his arms out and does his own hip thrust, knee Jared.

Speaker 3 40:45

And you're like dude in the middle of a place that if the lights clicked on they would gun you down in the streets. You got a moment in the moonlight to make your buddy smile and laugh, exactly, and then like, like I saw that and I was like that is real, thinks that's not real, has never felt what it's like to like be training with a bunch of guys over and over and rehearsing and then all of a sudden you get to go out and do the thing. And even then doing the thing you find out is sometimes boring. Sometimes it gets like you know, um, sedative, sedative, and you got to just kind of you goof around because one, you are the best, you're going to be great and you're the best and you know the line that you can tell. And then as soon as someone says, hey, we're moving it snapped back to pro and I remember seeing that and I was like that was so real.

Speaker 3 41:49

And I wonder how many people see that and are like no man, that's not real.

Speaker 2 41:53

Dude, that's the realest shit. Yeah, I think I think for most it'll connect to a lot of guys and I don't think you've ever had to beat a war to connect to it, just to be like if you've ever been on Horsing around, if you've just been, either. What played any team sport.

Speaker 2 42:05

You've been on a construction site, but, yeah, if you've ever done anything hard, it's not fun with other dudes. There's some sort of dark humor, banter joke flipping off somebody, and it's hilarious, you know like. And so any guy who's done any sort of work on a team of any form knows this. Like this reaction and then, um, what's interesting too about this and I'll speak to this a couple times as we're going through is the sound design in this movie was equally as powerful as the cinematography and storytelling, which is a piece of that.

Speaker 2 42:40

But there was no music in the whole movie besides the opening music video scene and the credits, and then the credits rolling, and so you just have like, and there was. There's like no character development, no story build up besides. It's just like you go from these guys in a room having fun watching a music video, snap to on patrol and then, yeah, they're goofing off a little bit and then, but then straight back to like 100% professionalism as far as like doing their job, covering what they need to, and then, like, the next scene is just, basically, it gets a little bit exciting at the beginning too, which is good. Like draws us in even further where they are in the house, you know, and it's like they sneak in these people's house.

When Combat Begins

Speaker 3 43:27

They, straight up, are boogeyman bro.

Speaker 2 43:29

They go to someone's house and steal their home. Yeah, you wake up to a gun in your face and they say, get in the corner. And I think that the it's not because they're bad people at all.

Speaker 3 43:39

It's just the house they need. These people that they're going into the home of they're probably likely like innocent people.

Speaker 2 43:45

And they're probably vetted as non-combatants. Yeah, because they're just trying to set up in their home for an Overwatch. Yeah, and I think they gave good perspective to the local people. What would it be like to just wake up to a guy who's a stormtrooper truly a stormtrooper from galaxies away with technology, beyond your wildest dreams?

Speaker 2 44:04

like waking you up in your family, in your bed, and then they it's like shh your bed you know, and then they sit in the corner, yeah, and then they, you know, and it gets intense a little, and then they set up. You're like it's getting intense and they're like, and then all of a sudden, boom, it's just a bunch of guys sitting around daylight. They're all sitting in a house with all their gear taken off.

Speaker 3 44:22

Yeah, you know what it really reminded me of immediately Cause of my brain rot Shane Gillis' joke about like SEAL Team 6 just breaking in and jerking off Osama Bin Laden and I was like just to fuck with him. He's a stand-up comedian, shane Gillis, if you don't know who he is, but he's making the joke that like how awful is it like pure black desert night. You got the curtains because you're a terrorist and you know it. It's absolutely black out in your room. You just feel someone grabbing your hands and legs and you see kind of glowing green stuff on their face. Like don't move, they just like start jerking you off. You can't do anything about it and then they leave, leave. I'm like yeah, that's scary.

Speaker 2 45:10

I mean it is, that is the first thing I thought of it is violation on that level? Just to be from the perspective of the guy in that house.

Speaker 3 45:16

You wake up to, maybe not on that level, but it's similar.

Speaker 2 45:20

I mean just it's intrusion I feel like equal to just waking up to another man in your house.

Speaker 3 45:32

Just like you know this is ultimately, it's got to be even worse, man, because you can't see them when they get you first. Yeah, you know what I mean, you just, and you got to know like they're there and they're controlling you.

Speaker 3 45:39

Um, yeah, no, that was. That was pretty crazy, that was. That was a very sobering thing and I think that goes and sets the tone for the rest of the movie. They don't do anything to soften how offensive that is. Like I saw that and I didn't like it. Uh-huh, like, and I didn't know that happened. In all the books I've read of the accounts of, like people who were over there. I have never read anything where I heard of a you know, non-combatant like their home being sieged and used for surveillance in the middle of a very like, highly dangerous like you know, not a green zone. And I've heard of stuff we're like, yeah, we pay them, we, you know, we're renting their house rooms and we're sitting up comms and they're vetted. I've never heard of anything like what we saw in this movie and to find out that's like that's what they did every time.

Speaker 2 46:35

You know that was pretty day in and day out, this would happen it was an honest thing.

Speaker 3 46:39

I felt like, and it felt like the movie was honest in the first 10 minutes and you're like, wow, there's no glorification of that. This is actually pretty ugly and gross and I don't like it. It's like, yeah, because it's war dude and one, one part of me.

Speaker 2 46:53

I just said it was maybe vetted people, but the other side being actually, if you remember, the guy just decides he likes that house, like they're also just like I like this one.

Speaker 2 47:01

It's just just from a, from a straight strategic tactical advantage. You just go, that's the house we need. Okay, take it. You know it's just like that's the house we need. Okay, take it. You know it's just like it is. It is eye opening to kind of those parts of you know warfare, I think that's. I think part of like the titling of this movie is definitely like it's definitely intentional around the lack of enemy. We see die, yeah, and all the little aspects they bring into it are, um, are trying to give you a picture of what. What is warfare, and what is warfare?

Speaker 3 47:41

uh, in this case was a lot of guys sitting around hot, just like sitting there a lot of boredom and then a whole lot of confusion, um, which you know is going forward like again.

Speaker 3 47:55

Why I think that this intro does such a good job of setting the tone of the rest move?

Speaker 3 47:59

Because it's shortly here.

Speaker 3 48:00

After that, we see our characters starting, uh, to feel the the all eyes on them and the jig is up and it becomes aware between the communications of these three ops I don't remember what oh, outpost, yeah, outpost one, two and three, which are three different houses that SEAL Team 5 has posted up in, and they are observing and essentially all they're doing here.

Speaker 3 48:29

There's not a specific guy they're looking for, they're literally just looking for combatants to shoot, which is why everyone was moving so secretively through one building or the other and not moving with open carrying, because they knew if they were open carrying, there was a good chance. They're just going to take a round from a hole somewhere they can't see, yep, they're just going to take a round from a hole somewhere they they can't see, yep, um, and they're observing and they start realizing like there's too many guys being really obvious about how they're not trying to look at us right incomes and oh, same guy that we're seeing was just at op2, p2 and op3 like 5, 10 minutes ago, and that ratcheting of when things take off and how the rest of the movie paces itself off of that really does feel realistic right like it's a slow build.

Speaker 2 49:21

It's a. It's a good slow, like 20 minutes to a half hour of like before, of this stuff that like, honestly, you know it was this stuff as I was watching it was making me think I'm glad I didn't go do that like. Yeah, from like, not from the the blood and guts aspect, from the aspects of being like. They're like I can feel the sweat taking. They're taking notes like and just just collecting data and taking notes while they're hot.

Speaker 3 49:47

It's like, it's not fun as someone who's sat in an unconditioned, un-air conditioned environment and long sleeve, like heavy cotton pants and shirts, with a vest. Here's you just. You gotta get up and walk the stairs, you gotta get up and walk around here and you gotta get up and look over here and you get just. All you gotta do all day is watch and strum your fingers, keep them busy like the sweat. Dude, I'd like that's all I could think about when I was watching them. I was like there's no, there's no way they're actually filming this on location, right, because they're not sweating enough, because I that's the only thing I really honestly. You asked me what I remember more than anything else from you know being, you know, sheriff deputy or working in like corrections in the jail, or working in armed security Sweating.

Speaker 3 50:41

I remember sweating more than anything else in my life, dude, because you just sweat so much in that heat from the weight of everything and having to like go do your rounds and walk.

Speaker 3 50:52

Yeah, dude, it was crazy. You know like I get it, like it is boring, but it was also like cathartic seeing them there, just like, all right, I got to stay awake, I got to do pushups Cosmo Jarvis's character, the way you see, I saw him like shaking in the eye, fatigue from being prone on his gut and having to breathe, like that and that prostrated position. A lot of people like see snipers in movies and stuff and I think they're like, yeah, they look comfy, it's like dude, no man, it is not comfy. Like most of the time, like you are comfy for the first 10 minutes and then you start realizing like your back's arched, your chin can't really completely rest and you just start getting weird sores and bruises. My back's starting thinking about it. Oh, dude, I mean, you know it from hunting like what's the longest you've remained still hunting and like how many hours do you think you could hold?

Speaker 2 51:45

truly right stock still position, right, something like that too, and in, yeah, like, in something like that, yeah, it's like maybe an hour, you know, and even then, that's like you know, in a generally like in a more comfy sitting position. But yeah, I mean, it's like it'll uh, it'll wear on you fast. And did you notice, um the uh, he was switching his eyes, yeah, back and forth. I was like that's like, that was like cool attention to detail on like where it's like, you know, even like he was switching which I was looking through the scope, because that's something you actually like supposed to do, because you're gonna, you, you look through a scope for eight hours, dude I strain is real like a nightmare yeah, I, I've noticed like even just something like my normal shooting days with a low powered magnification optic that I get pretty, pretty intense eye strain after four hours shooting, let alone like a super high powered optic.

Speaker 3 52:37

Oh man dude. Anyways, I know this sounds cringe to people who like haven't shot much, maybe, or something like that, but it's very exhausting. It's like an incredibly taxed thing. And then now, like, put in the context of like this is dangerous for you this is your job.

Speaker 3 52:50

You need to do this because all the other guys are literally sitting here twiddling thumbs until you let them know oh my god, there's people coming to kill us. Yep, and then like and if you slack off and miss that, miss those details, all these dudes waiting around are just gonna get fucked.

Speaker 2 53:07

Yeah, um, anyways uh, and you know, and after, so you have this like build-up of this, that experience we're talking through, and then the uh, the clink of tinker, yeah, dude the grenade was ominous.

Speaker 2 53:20

Sound effects was insane and it was because it was like it was so tiny and so nothingness like. And what I love about. Speaking back to the sound design of movies, like I said, how there's no music in it, there's also not a lot of. I mean. There's also no synths or bass or build up to like where you would there's no michael bay sound typically.

Speaker 2 53:38

Yeah, you would be like you would be building during this whole time of 20 minutes. You would be building stressful, deep droning noises and then and then it, and it'd build up to when, finally, that's like it's when finally this grenade comes through the window. Instead of it being like dead quiet guys are kind of like just transitioning from one spot to the other, like sitting around, and then it's like it's like what the fuck is that? And then it's like you're dead. Yeah, you know, and like just.

Speaker 3 54:05

And then that's when it like kicked off, and then if anyone wants to see an actually great breakdown of that scene, watch the interview with the cast and both of the directors. Oh yeah, cause it shows the cast perspective of like what they were told told it was going to be like and what they were told you know the experience was like and then it's like how they reacted to it and you know why they did what they did or like and they argued for like their behavior. They're like hey, I don't want to like. Cosmo was like, I don't want a stunt guy. I legit want to roll over this before the dust explosive goes off, because I kind of want to like. Just see for myself if I can beat the time. You know what I mean. Um, and ray was like when he was in the interview. He's like yeah, no, that distinctive sound was one of the things where I remember so clearly. You immediately knew off of the first syllable of that clank. It was as it spoke into the room.

Speaker 3 55:05

Everyone knew immediately what it was and the reason DeFaro rolls like that is because Ray was like that's exactly how I rolled. I immediately just rolled over myself through the doorway right next to me and I let my comms and everything just get snagged and unplugged and I left my gun because I knew that was a grenade and I had no idea where it was Right. It could have come through any of the windows on the second floor and I just remember seeing the way DeFero rolls I was like that is so clean, dude.

Speaker 2 55:38

That is a role that you know that actor practiced like a dozen times to get right, I agree, and I think that the I also like, as guys are communicating in this, they also, while they're like professional, they actually throw in the imperfections of humans in all the comms, like, even, like. Even when isr is speaking, he's like um, we got a three combatants coming left side to right side. Uh, op1 specter one get um.

Speaker 3 56:04

Uh, well, actually did you notice, say like three times. He messes up in cardinal directions and corrects right.

Speaker 2 56:12

So they like.

Speaker 3 56:13

Specter is like east east, not east west west. Moving west right.

Speaker 2 56:17

So like they left, like how people are. Yeah, instead of just being like we are death, we are perfectly like we are like we. There's. No, you know, you know that kind of that cool opening a mission impossible. There's, like you know yeah there's no humanity in this. Like communication, so like similarly like that grenade. In a normal movie it would have been like kating kating grenade, you know, but instead it was like someone jumps on it yeah, it was like kating kating and it was like nothing said, nothing said.

Speaker 2 56:46

Then one guy's like what was that?

Speaker 3 56:52

said nothing said. Then one guy's like what was that?

Speaker 2 56:53

grenade. Did someone say grenade? I can't even remember someone says it. They say it, but they say it way too late.

Speaker 2 56:56

Oh yeah, like it's just, it's just too late, it's just like grenade. Like it's like you might as well just like said it. Like, yeah, you know it might as well not said it, so anyways, the um, I appreciated the way they do. That Is another way that makes this so real and pulls you into it. And the you know one thing a lot of people Would say like Everybody in that room would have been dead from a grenade. No, well, if it was an American grenade, actually, yeah, probably Maybe, but luckily Some Belgian.

Speaker 2 57:31

But it still hurt guys and stuff. But then from that point on the movie just then, like it does take some like breathers throughout, but at this point on it's just now, it's game on you know, and they have all their crap everywhere, which everywhere, like as it were. You thinking, as it was leading up, I was like no one's got their helmets on, Like they got their crappy.

Speaker 3 57:52

I was like when this started. I was like cause it's fucking hot, they're sweaty, I'm not wearing my helmet.

Speaker 2 57:58

I was like. I was like I know that this is how I would be I would take all my stuff off. I also know that this is going to be a problem when it starts Like you know, and then it is, the grenade goes off in that room. They're missing guns. They're missing all their gear, all their dip cans.

Speaker 3 58:14

That's a problem.

Speaker 2 58:15

You lost the dip can.

Speaker 3 58:17

That's an issue. Dude seeing them being legit about dip was sick.

Speaker 2 58:20

Oh yeah, I love that. Like he got off. The only reason he got off the sniper rifle. He didn't need to stretch he.

Speaker 3 58:26

He could have stayed on there for eight more days if he had a log next to him bro dude, but the way there was that moment of shared eye contact, of like I see you with the log in your mouth yeah and the homie's just looking back at him like now what log and he's like it like it was like that unspoken, like are you gonna share? It's like it like nothing was said and I was just like dude that's real.

Speaker 2 58:50

There's another one of those kind of goofing moments. Oh yeah, it makes it real, I think too.

Speaker 3 58:55

All right, so like the grenade goes off Right, and then everyone's scuttling about, and this was, I think, the second sign of like me getting frustrated. But also then was like having a like wait a second, like a pause moment, like having a like wait a second like a pause moment, and it was when they're trying to uh essentially, um, what's it called? Uh blood sleep no, not blood sleep, uh, but like essentially do a breakdown, or were they calling it breakdown, or were they calling it um uh, collapse oh yeah yeah, um, and they're like we're gonna collapse down to the first floor because second floor is compromised.

Speaker 3 59:31

And they're like, well, we can't leave because all of our shit's in the room. And like the way there was the paralysis about going into the room, even though there was no combatants in the room and combatants couldn't see into the room, there was a paralysis, a true fear of going into that room to give people shit. And I was like, okay, let me let me step outside of my like you know, training with other military guys and stuff experience. Let me let me like put on my lenses of hollywood and like a normie kind of stuff and just try to like view this for like, is this supposed to be something that's easily like suspend disbelief? These hard-hitting, you know pipe hitters are afraid to go in that room and get their shit.

Speaker 3 1:00:22

Or is this what happened? Is this what happened in the true panic heat of the moment, fear of like, fuck, like we got injured and we have people going into shock and we actually don't want to go in that room unless we absolutely have to. And that was the it's the latter. It's the latter is what it was. But for me, as, like a first time watcher, I was like what's going on? Is this? Suspend your disbelief on a small set, or is this like what it really happened? And after they collapsed downstairs, um, and have retrieved that gear, um, that's like when things started connecting for me and they're talking about how they're moving through and gonna stay on the ground level and bringing in, uh, casavac for the injured was when I was like, oh my gosh, this is not a movie that is going to show a, a fictional narrative of glory. This is a movie that is going to show all of the ugly, like accurate, like yeah, no, it was no, it was pure terror, it was pure fear. Mistakes were made, I lost my faculties, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:01:35

And like, and I wasn't ready, or prepared, or you know, I dropped the ball and I panicked, and like the reason that one really stood out to me was the guy who goes in initially I can't remember who it is that goes initially to find the gear of the two um guys that were on overwatch and he says he can't find it.

Speaker 2 1:01:53

He can't find it. It's ray. No, it's ray. Yeah, ray goes in there and he's like scared. Yeah, he's like he's scared and he's like I can't fucking see it.

Speaker 3 1:01:59

And he comes out and you're like dude, what really like? My immediate thought was like really you can't find it. It's you know the 20 pound Kevlar vest with gear on it. You were tripped over it when you walked in. And then you know a more senior.

Speaker 1 1:02:15

I think it's.

Speaker 3 1:02:15

Elliot or Eric. Yeah, they go in and grab it and then come back out and you're like damn, that's really fucking real. Because you know how many times have I been even in just like a non-real life stress scenario but just rehearsal training scenario, doing like, you know, not even live fire practice, like our cqb stuff, like not seeing shit, you know, and if it was a snake it would have bit me and um that that was when I was like oh, there's going to be a moment of glory in this. That's not true or deserved, like anything someone does that you're like damn, that was brave that was glorious.

Speaker 3 1:02:59

It's going to be the truth, right, and I think I know you're right. I think it was right because I remember thinking like that's the dude, that's the guy directing the movie, and he's not the hero. He's not the hero. Yeah, he's not. He's not like grooming himself to look good on the camera.

Speaker 2 1:03:18

He's like I was 19 or whatever. I was 22. And I really appreciate those parts of this movie because that's the majority of the movie.

Speaker 3 1:03:25

The majority of the movie is Navy SEALs, being very human, getting their butt kicked, yeah, and I think too.

Speaker 2 1:03:33

What's interesting is we don't know at what point in their deployment. This was Lots of these guys. Even if they were a new guy, they'd probably never been anywhere before. If you're this young or whatever and there's the classic thing of the high school football team that's never lost, or the bully that's never been punched what happens when the first time that perfect Christian Valor down the road in Denver, they get a touchdown scored on them by the little team? Yeah, what happens? World shattered.

Speaker 2 1:04:02

Collapse Falling apart right the bully punching the nose for the first time, collapses. So, similarly to these kids, kids in a sense, you know, I'm a navy seal, I'm, you know I'm top dog. You know I've never, you know, and there's a guy we'll talk about later who really embodies like he's still doing this thing. But I want to bring him up later, but just kind of like, yeah, I'm a big man, this is like. You know, I'm the best of the best, of the best of the best that ever was, sir, you know, and like it's like, no, actually, like you're in the way, yeah, like you're detriment right now. Right, and there's that.

Speaker 2 1:04:32

And then also the like just being like, oh, my god, like this got scary and I was, I, I this, actually on a very small scale. This happened to me where I realized it was just this was like, oh, almost 20 years ago now. So I was a kid, but I was like you know, I'm brave, I can handle my shit. You know, I was at a paintball range, yeah, and this guy, I had a freaking tipman 98. You know, just tink, tink, tink I have no idea but single shot classic.

The Reality of Trauma

Speaker 2 1:05:01

Like this other guy had the angel dual digital trigger and like I had the high ground and he was just laying down cover fire on me. He was like he was giving the dual trigger on this, like wood behind me yeah, it was hitting by my face, paint splattering on my face and he was doing the reload like like shooting while he's reloading in the hopper, oh yeah, and I just I got scared dude.

Speaker 2 1:05:26

I was just like, and I was like I lost my, I lost my whole like thing and I just was like I'm not cool, I'm freaking a wuss, you know, and so, and like, I realized that's obviously not the same like thing, but just like that kind of going from like I'm ready for this, I can do this over to. And they really showed this through the new guy, the pig gunner, who was new, the machine gunner, you know, um, I don't remember his name, but he was the young guy who he liked the rest of the movie. He just stared blankly, right, like, and he was all like frozen dude, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:05:55

Yeah, that's funny. You say that Mine was running away from home. Yeah, my mom said. I told my mom when I was leaving and I had my backpack my duffel bag. I was like second grader. She's like all right, be careful, pick a jacket.

Speaker 2 1:06:14

And I walked out, bro, and I got like you know, in my brain I got like a mile, yeah, a good hundred feet, and I was like it's fucking dark, I'm gonna be cold soon, and I turned around and came out back um it's when we, yeah, when reality strikes. It's like okay, what's the deal here?

Speaker 3 1:06:31

you know, and that's what it was showing, these guys go through oh yeah, which is no way to take it away from their heroics and their ballers what they did, because it's human and their training made them more than human. You know what I mean their training made them more than human.

Speaker 1 1:06:50

You know what I?

Speaker 3 1:06:50

mean their training made them, like you know, someone who can succeed in that environment and survive in that environment. But it was still a way of like you see, in the beginning, like I mean you were right Like a lot of this movie is the SEALs getting kicked in the teeth and like, not in the lone survivor we kill like a dozen guys before we jump down the mountain and roll around, but in the like, oh my gosh, I don't even know if we're killing anybody.

Speaker 2 1:07:14

I mean it's most it's.

Speaker 3 1:07:15

All they do is cover fire and suppressive fire well I think I mean like, just like shoot out the window at something yeah, part of me thinks that, like they intent made it, it was a real intentional choice to not show them killing anyone because in warfare you might not be aware of you don't know if you hit somebody or not yeah, and like, especially when you got rounds coming from three cardinal directions.

Speaker 3 1:07:39

You're like I okay, I put rounds north, I'm pivoting east, I'm pivoting west, and you're like, I don't know if I killed anyone in those directions, but the guy from the north and the west stopped shooting so now I'm gonna shoot at the guy at the east and um, anyways, all that said uh, it was. It was pretty phenomenal. And and when the ied goes off right, like we get this crazy visceral scene of, uh, one of, like translator, support Iraqis blown up Before you get into that part.

Speaker 2 1:08:15

Oh okay, there's two things I wanted to mention. It was one when the firefight breaks off after the grenade, those bullet snaps.

Speaker 3 1:08:24

I've never heard bullet snaps in a movie sound so real and firing inside of a building yeah I was like I heard it was better in imax I I went and saw it and I thought it was like still pretty good like audio I heard in imax it was actually like people's ears are ringing from the imax theater.

Speaker 2 1:08:43

I didn't know, I mean, and just like the. It was like, I mean, they didn't like it sounded like a real gun, yeah somebody like held the microphone up, like they set the mic in that room and then went and shot bullets in there.

Speaker 3 1:08:55

Well, actually yeah, no, sorry, to be fair, I'm pretty sure none of none of the fire was cgi. I'm pretty sure every round was a blank, if I remember correctly from like behind the scenes yeah which looks true, because one of the most telltale signs with like muzzle flashes and stuff in movies is even in daylight scenarios they'll brighten the room um, which doesn't happen like if you shot a gun.

Speaker 3 1:09:20

You know you can shoot a gun in a mildly lit afternoon room there's not gonna be a muzzle flash, um, and so it's one of those things that, like I, if I remember correctly, everything was the audio was dubbed right, or or it was, you know, done from a different mic, but, if I remember correctly, all the rounds fired were live blanks, like I think it must like that.

Speaker 2 1:09:46

Uh, what's the m240? Whatever the pig gun? Yeah, like that was what's the.

Speaker 1 1:09:48

M240, whatever the pig gun. Yeah Like that was.

Speaker 2 1:09:51

I think the dude was standing in there with ear pro like shooting, like the sounds. I was like the chugging was real. I was like, oh my God, this is like crazy. And then the snaps of the sound of bullets coming at and past you. I was like. I was like, oh my gosh, this is like really wild, oh you know. And and. So that was just another kudos to the sound design in this. And then the next part where these poor interpreters, they were sent out there as bait.

Speaker 2 1:10:18

Again no hiding, yeah, they didn't hide what they did and guys will say this here's the deal. We were in a country fighting people, but we were also trying to stand up their own army and there were people there who wanted to fight. At this point in 2006, saddam had fallen, we had then taken the country and then we were building up their army and then we had insurgencies coming in from all over that were then. They were foreign fighters coming in and establishing themselves and at this point the majority of people we were fighting there were not Iraqis.

Speaker 2 1:10:51

There were some Iraqis. The majority of people we were fighting were insurgents who were coming in, and so there was a fighting force and we were trying to stand up armies for these countries to then defend themselves, and there were mandates where you had to take X amount of guys with you on an op you had to.

Speaker 3 1:11:09

That was so ugly though. Pat dude like that was who who calls it? Is it um joseph quinn's character, um who's, who's the one?

Speaker 2 1:11:20

that's like hold before letting them out well, because the interpreters are talking to each other in arabic and they're like they want us to go out there first. We're gonna die, yeah and then he's like don't he?

Speaker 1 1:11:27

then he's like don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 1:11:28

We're to go out there first. We're gonna die, yeah, and then he's like don't then he's like, don't worry about it, we're gonna go out there. And then, yeah, whoever it was it was uh, who, I don't remember who it was we hold him back. It was eric or who it was. But he said they send them out there to clear the street and they, they, I mean they hold for like 25, 30 seconds coming back, but like for how long they held?

Speaker 3 1:11:48

I'd be like, hey, wait a second, you're not out there.

Speaker 2 1:11:51

I mean they really they. They sent them out there and they're like, if they get lucky, they'll shoot somebody, If not, they're taking the fire. And I mean that was an honest part of the movie, so dark. You know I'm twofold. One side of me goes I get it All right. Boys, it's time for you to start kind of ponying up on, like what you know, defending your country from these people coming in the other side, being holy shit, these guys with no training and a crappy AK are going to go out there and get smoked.

Speaker 2 1:12:21

Yeah, and I bet this sort of thing happened a lot, you know all the time and I mean they really they held them back and it was like that was. That was another scene that was very like oh, because at first I was like, oh, they're not leaving them like hanging, they're just being cowards. And then it was like, oh, no, they sent them out there.

Speaker 3 1:12:37

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 3 1:12:38

It was ugly, but it was honest, um, and I'm sure, like you said, I'm sure that happened all the time because, truth be told, if I was put in that situation and someone was like hey, here's some interpreters. They are likely to abandon you. Yeah, faced any kind of pressure of threat, they may even be lying half the time they're translating for you. They might even betray us. Yeah, they could shoot you in the back, which did happen. Watch that Sean Ryan episode. Pretty fucking crazy shit, treyus. Yeah, they could shoot you in the back, which did happen. Watch that sean ryan episode pretty fucking crazy shit um, but uh, yeah, they like.

Speaker 3 1:13:16

You're like, why would I let my guys take heat when I could send them out to take heat, especially if they're just gonna be a commodity that's wasted and they're just gonna abandon us, us in the heat, which was tough to see because it's like that's pretty brutal. But at the same time, you're seeing it and you're like yeah, dude did just run away as soon as the ID ran off. He was not seen again. The other one's blown in half, which, honestly, that was the most realistic depiction of like gore I've ever seen that's pretty gnarly.

Speaker 3 1:13:52

I've never seen someone do a better chest cavity than what I saw there because, honestly, I was like when I found out that was a dummy and not just like the actor with a bunch of makeup, I was like that's the best looking dummy I've ever seen in my life yep, yep, because this, that id goes off and then that whole like coming to scene was pretty incredible.

Speaker 2 1:14:18

And this is where, uh, in the sound design of this movie they really use negative space. Well, where earlier we're talking about michael bay type, you know stuff, listen. Similarly, you can have two guys on a stage and the less they play sometimes really makes it powerful. And what they use that in this movie, where you just you pull out all the sound, you pull out everything and like, and it does give that shell shocked effect, but also like it the way throughout the rest of the movie, the way it paces things and stuff and so, but during the scene where you know they're all coming to and they're talking like they're underwater, it's like and you don't actually and you can't tell which characters who no, it's pretty hard.

Speaker 1 1:15:06

It takes a couple minutes to see who was hurt who was dead?

Speaker 2 1:15:11

And I was like my first thought I was like, okay, they're all dead except for one. It was kind of like what I think is going to happen. Then it's like, okay, no, they're not all dead, but two guys are real messed up. The Iraqi force guys are dead and gone. The iraqi force guys are dead and gone and like, um, but that whole scene, um, as they're coming to, guys are realizing they're wounded, they're screaming. That was another. That was a gut-wrenching scene. When the guy just starts screaming um, as when it's still muted and muffled and he's screaming help me, or oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.

Speaker 2 1:15:46

I can't remember what he's saying over, yeah, just over and over again, yeah, and you're just like, oh, it's like someone get him, someone help him, but everybody else is it? What the cool thing about it was? It showed each person's like experience, meaning like, uh, you'd be like well, aren't you helping the guy over there who's all his legs are blown up?

Speaker 2 1:16:05

it's like well, because I just also, like you know, I don't know what the fuck is going on and while I'm not missing my legs, I actually am I'm probably have a major tbi now, like I'm seriously injured, yeah you know, and concussed and all this stuff. And so the um then, as they're coming to, they start helping their buddies the wild think. The one of the wildest experiences in this was they're pulling um. What's his name? The guy? His legs are banged up. The other one.

Speaker 3 1:16:39

Oh uh, joseph Quinn's character Sam.

Speaker 2 1:16:41

Yeah, sam, they're pulling him in and as they pull him through the door, it's like they have used that negative space. Now they have used a bunch of sounds to help build it. It's like now there's like whomping and all this stuff and it's full. Your ears are full, oh my God. Like it's super cinematic and there's this muffled screaming and people crying out in gunshots and then it just cuts to a guy screaming, you know, like, like it's clean, it's. It's like you were. You were if, if you were standing in the room next to somebody screaming not, I'm in a movie, you know then I did.

Speaker 3 1:17:13

You feel that when they cut to him, just screaming, oh yeah and it just was like I've heard that scream in my real life years and it like, actually like made me like. It made me actually start sweating, like I remember the movie theater. I felt my armpits sweating it made it so real.

Speaker 2 1:17:29

Yeah, it wasn't like, oh, this is cinematic. A guy saving private ryan guy on the beach screaming, crying. No, it's like there's four guys in a room and one of them is just dying, screaming, you know, and I'm sitting in here with them and that was I thought, that was that was incredibly done and really like just it. During that scene, I wasn't in the movie anymore, I was just watching this ethereal thing happen.

Speaker 3 1:18:00

Yeah, you're in the room.

Speaker 2 1:18:01

And then it sucked you straight back into the room with it. It was like whoa, and so I thought that was a wildly well done little piece there this next moment in the film is probably the hardest one, I think.

Speaker 3 1:18:21

Just you know, of course, viscerally to watch. It's very graphic, it's very hard to watch, especially if you've, I think, seen, you know, trauma like this. You know whether from working in an er or you know in an emergency situation or you know in the military. For me, though, man, the hardest thing watching it was realizing like damn, the fucking education you and I have received on t triple c came out of this shit.

Speaker 3 1:18:54

Right, it came out of the lessons learned from here um, because if you have gone through any real, like even base, super basic, critical combat care of anything you know, and done the scenarios and rehearsed it like, rather than just watching PowerPoints, holy smokes, you see this and you're just pulling out your hair and screaming because they don't even get started on applying tourniquets for probably 20 to 30 minutes post the actual injuries caused from the ied and at that time, like you're just seeing, like they've already left, you know, snail trails of fucking blood and these dudes are like I mean, they've lost leaders at this point and, um, it's brutal. And like you even see, um I believe it was, was it ray or was it, um, the uh, gandalfini's character they're attempting to apply a tourniquet and from the adrenaline dump they can't get their hands to stop shaking to thread it in the.

Speaker 2 1:20:08

They both apply tourniquets.

Speaker 3 1:20:10

Both of them.

Speaker 2 1:20:10

Very late. So Gandolfini's character he tries going over the boot of a mashed potato leg.

Speaker 3 1:20:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:20:22

And then he says oh, that's not going to work, oh man dude, I think part of it.

Speaker 2 1:20:27

They put this scene in there to speak to this, like the lack of, you know, training, use around some of this medical care at the time, you know, and because I mean, and then Because the sad, reality is, you're watching this and you're realizing like these Navy SEALs may have.

Speaker 3 1:20:44

They've been given their tourniquets and told like yep, use this to stop bleeding in the extremities. And they maybe said in the worst, worst, absolute, worst cases, use it yeah and then, uh, they probably never had to role play it, they probably never had to practice or rehearse, right, like you're seeing that and you're like, holy fuck, that's someone who's never had to put it on and then and then ray's struggling to thread it through bloody, slippery hands, shaking adrenaline dumps and uh cosmos character um elliot was their medic yep, so, and he's the one who's down the worst yeah, and this, this was before most like this was before.

Speaker 3 1:21:22

you had team y training on t triple c, so like nowadays, you know um we had our guy br Brujo do the training for us in our security team, but he discussed how, like every Army Ranger now, gets this training to the same standard.

Speaker 3 1:21:41

The only person who's getting like more training when it comes to like you know is, you know, your actual 68 whiskey medics. But most guys now have full breadth of experience and training on t triple c, because when your whole team knows it, you don't come into the scenario where it's like, oh, our medics down, what the fuck do we do?

Speaker 2 1:22:06

exactly and and I think the studies he showed us was like it was starting like 2010 or 2012, like, and then there was like, since then they started doing this, they've had like huge success in saving lives well, they had.

Leadership Under Pressure

Speaker 3 1:22:18

They had a whole year. The us army rangers had got to a point where they had a whole year where there were no preventable combat deaths, right where everyone who was injured and had a survivable injury survived, which is crazy, because you watch this movie and by the end of it you're like wait, those dudes are alive.

Speaker 2 1:22:42

Yeah, exactly I thought those dudes were dead yeah, like done, fully done. Yeah, I mean the fact that, also like elliot's character, I thought he was dead for that. Yeah, it was so funny.

Speaker 3 1:22:51

I was sitting there with my buddy I, who we'll just call a manager. He's a manager of the movie theater and he took me for free to go see the movie. And when cosmos character elliot goes, yeah I was. I immediately gassed. I was like, oh my god, he's alive and he leads over, he's alive and he leaves the room. He's like that's so funny.

Speaker 2 1:23:11

All of us did the same thing the first time we were watching it and it was so funny and I actually felt bad for him.

Speaker 3 1:23:18

Oh man, Because they wrote him off.

Speaker 2 1:23:20

Well, no, yeah, but I was like I was like wish I was dead, like wish he'd stayed dead, kind of stayed dead kind of like just like coming back to the reality of this painful, horrible thing, and I think what was crazy was they?

Speaker 3 1:23:35

hide his eyes right and you're just looking at them. Dusty ass uh ballistic lenses and when they pull them off, you just see how wide his eyes are just staring blankly at the ceiling and you're like, oh, my god, I, like you, don't realize how much pain the man's in until those glasses come off. And then you realize you're like. This dude is on a whole nother planet of pain.

Speaker 2 1:23:57

It's insane, he's talking right now, oh yeah, and and the props there to the acting for real and and the and then speaking to the wound specifically like a bullet, would be so much better than I mean this crazy White phosphorus, white phosphorus shrapnel. I mean truly going from a hole and jellied leg and like messed up stuff which is already horrible to like literally Still burning Mashed potato eviscerated like through a meat grinder jelly. And then I mean dude, I mean and then like they start cutting the pant legs up on elliot first and you're like, oh, this is like it's literally done, like he's done, done, done yeah and then they start cutting on the other guy, dude, and that gash yeah, yeah, i't.

Speaker 2 1:24:47

I was like, oh, there be his dick, you know. I was like, yeah, I was like, oh, uncircumcised. I had the same thought. I was like I want to interview he's. English yeah yeah, I want to interview everybody on. What did you think when you saw that scene? They'll be like anteater, not a German army helmets. But I thought. But I mean, and it was quick, but hey, we're quick on the draw, we've had lessons.

Speaker 3 1:25:17

We're from a time when you would shower in a gym next to other men and you'd establish quickly. I remember that scene. I was watching it. I was like, oh damn, is that like some meat coming out of his leg?

Speaker 1 1:25:28

I was like, oh no, that's just ball sack as someone who's had.

Speaker 3 1:25:31

Here's what was crazy for me when watching that scene, I actually did have a little bit of like weird kind of like. You know, I know this is cringe to say, but I was a little triggered Because when I broke my femur, oh yeah, and I was upside down and I was trying to figure out how to straighten it, which way your leg went I was screaming like him, dude, I screamed like him the whole time. The uh, like um, ski patrol emts were trying to straighten the leg and set it on the mountain. And, dude, when we got down the mountain, they, like once, as soon as they got me into the clinic to do x-rays and stuff, they cut that pant leg up so fast and my nuts were out, dude, yeah, my nuts dropped and I was like, oh okay, all right, that's the day your balls dropped.

Speaker 2 1:26:13

In fact, I was in eighth grade, man.

Speaker 3 1:26:16

And I was like, I was like that's how I knew it was serious, like cause you know, as an eighth grader, no doctor or nurse is looking at your. It's a big deal. And when they like no hesitancy, we're like all right, we're kind of taking them off. And they just, and I was like, oh, I'm naked. I'm like oh, I'm fucked up, like I'm really, I'm missed. I'm not going to school tomorrow.

Speaker 2 1:26:40

And as that gash in his leg was so high and so wide and open, I was just was like I leaned forward. I think the guy next to me in the movie theater I don't know it was, there was three of us in the movie theater the guy, like there's three of us in the whole theater. Somebody sat two seats from me. I was like fine, bro, but I the whole movie I was like sitting up forward like hands, hands under my chin, and then I was like lean back, lean my chair back again, and then like sitting up again, like breathing heavy, like, and then um, but during that thing I was just I was like, oh shit, like God, like cause, like it's just like dad looks bad. Yeah, so it just looked. So it ended that moment. You're like, oh, that's why he's been screaming. Yeah, like we knew he was hurt, but it's just. I was like, oh yeah, go on screaming.

Speaker 3 1:27:24

Oh, it's still glowing.

Speaker 2 1:27:30

That's still some green fire coming out of his leg.

Speaker 3 1:27:31

Yeah, keep on screaming, buddy, that's, that's that you're allowed to. You know, yeah, that was pretty brutal, um, and it. You know, he was one thing that I kind of I don't know if I have a. I'm not very firm on this opinion, but part of me thinks that Gandolfini's character, lieutenant McDonald I think he had more lines than Rey, than DeFaro, and I know DeFaro was our kind of main character, the captain of the team, eric. He also had a fair amount of dialogue in lines, but it really felt to me like Gandolfini remained the most like competent and like able to dialogue throughout the entire thing Because, like Captain Eric's character by will polter um after the id he was smoked he will.

Speaker 3 1:28:34

It was id and the um doing the uh blow. Uh, what's it called? It's like a bit, it's like um uh blow in position, but it's when they detonated the claymores. Yeah, while they're in, while they're in place yeah and um that like fucked him up.

Speaker 3 1:28:51

Yeah, like because id, I think, definitely blew his diaphragm or something you know, but he, his brain was rattled after that concussion, um, but like of all the characters like we, we see ray and ray's out of action for like a good like a couple of different times but in total he's out of action like totally traumatized, non-communicative uh and just in shock for probably 15, 20 minutes almost, where it's just like open mouth staring trying to figure out what to do and just confused um and lieutenant mcdonald by gandolfini, he's like way more uh, at least for from an audience perspective, um processing, you know, outside of himself and he's not negative like his processing manner is not negative like we see later on that once he'll come in and his manner of processing the combat is just kind of slapping and kicking everybody, telling everybody to toughen up, like yeah, let's go get this shit, which is the negative exterior processing that is a man who is not aware of his surroundings while processing information and is making things worse, and I definitely think gandolfini's character is portrayed here as being like a guy who's like.

Speaker 3 1:30:15

He's out of his depth for sure, yeah, but the way he's processing things is right. He's not making it worse.

Speaker 3 1:30:24

Um, part of me thinks like he should have been the perspective of the main character if they weren't going to If they you know, if they decided we're not going to give Ray more dialogue, because I'm Ray, I'm the director. I know there was like 20 minutes there where I was like literally all I could think in my brain was keep my knee here so he doesn't die, and I wasn't aware of anything else going on. I didn't say anything to anyone. I'm like, okay, I get that perspective. Maybe then it warrants shifting the main POV to someone else who was there and I get that. You know, I mean it's a nothing sandwich because it doesn't really change the experience of the movie. I was just surprised at how little the lead had to say, like how little dialogue de ferro really had, because I mean, I don't know, do you think I'm wrong?

Speaker 2 1:31:14

it felt like 20 minutes of him not having anything to say because he is seriously stunned yeah, I think I think that yes, in part, but the other part being like I think that's kind of what they wanted us to experience, was his shock.

Speaker 3 1:31:32

His shock. Yeah, Honestly, like though I mean, if it was you, man, I'd probably do the same thing, Like I wouldn't want to look at you. Yeah, you know what I mean. I would put my knee on your wound after stuffing that puppy.

Speaker 1 1:31:47

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:31:49

And I would look away, had to look over as far away from your face as I could because I wouldn't want to look at your face, yeah, but uh, that was one thing I also appreciated as someone who's practiced a lot of wound packing. They did a good job with wound packing that was that looked realistic as hell to me. Dude um, and I was like part of it was like nah man, he'd be fighting in, like wiggling around more.

Speaker 2 1:32:13

I was like actually he wouldn't if his legs were super duper fucked up like you can't wiggle your legs when they're that broken no, yeah for sure, and the uh and and so then, as they kind of like, the scene where I was, the whole scene where, like they're just messed up in the house, they're trying to regroup all that stuff, you know is like that part for me was just stressful. I'm in it, but then I got pumped again during the ISR feed of the boys coming to help pumped again during the isr feed of the boys coming to help.

Speaker 2 1:32:52

Yeah, bro, when you see and the guys uh, collapsing from outpost two and it's just their little thermals and you can see them moving and just hitting people and you're like let's go.

Speaker 3 1:32:59

Oh, yeah, bro I was sitting there with the manager man. I'm like, okay, those are the seals, yeah, okay, those are also the seals. And he's like, how do you know? I'm like it's just that formation, baby, like like the way they are moving and the way they're covering and setting up. You just know that is a different level of training compared to the randos squirming around between the houses exactly.

Speaker 2 1:33:24

But I was like let's go. And then, um, that was. You know, they're moving in there, they're getting after them and, like those guys, those boys hadn't been punched in the mouth yet, so they were still like they'd taken fire, but they hadn't been. They were under fire, but meaning like they weren't. They weren't in the same state as these other guys who, like say, equal um capability yeah you know, the other guys were just like beat down.

Speaker 2 1:33:47

these guys had had been in a firefight, but they weren't beat down yet and so, like when they come through the door, I felt relief that, like.

Speaker 3 1:33:55

Bro, when I saw them shooting and moving I was like, I'll be honest, first I thought I was like man, dude. Is that guy who's the lead, the sergeant of that team coming from Outpost 2? Is that that the actual ray mendoza? Because that guy doesn't strike me as an actor. That guy strikes me as a dude who did the shit. Um, it wasn't the actual ray mendoza was just a really good actor moving um. But there did feel to me like a difference in between the platoon, like squads, like the squad collapsing from outpost.

Speaker 2 1:34:33

Two felt to me like these are boys who have been here and already have been through what our other guys are going through right and in the end, as they come in and they push into this room, you're just like I. I was imagining what's the relief like when you're the rest of your, you got everybody back together and it's like you got your, you're safer, you have help, like just that, like the ability to have that that help come in there. You know, and then, like the two pig gunners, go up on the roof and just hammer down dude those gunners on the roof are like those are the coolest guys of the whole movie.

Speaker 2 1:35:10

Honestly, they're just like. They're just laying down. I will say this down up there like the shooting, the moving and shooting was flawless.

Speaker 3 1:35:21

Oh yeah, like, especially like now having done some cqb stuff, like seeing the way those guys move and like had it squared away for a film. I'm watching it. I'm like, wow, like, especially when they're on the street right and you see the guys kneeling and fully aware of the you know man behind them doing standing overwatch, and there's not a moment of flagging. I I I didn't see one flagging throughout the whole film. I don't know if you did, I was looking for it. I was like, dude, these guys don't flag one second.

Speaker 2 1:35:57

They had it down and I think it's kind of standard now for like a Navy SEAL or spec op movie, like you go to mini boot camp and get trained, you know. But these guys did do like a good three week long workup altogether, getting trained by the dudes who were there.

Speaker 3 1:36:13

The dudes who were there ray did the train.

Speaker 2 1:36:15

Ray did the training and his buddies came in and did the training with him and so one it was. I was listening to one actor interview and he was talking about like because what one guy's like so was it scary or hard? You're like doing the training and trying to not be a wuss with these seals there and all this stuff, and he's like he's like, honestly, all the boys it was hard but we were like the guy. The guy was kind it. He's like do you know how much money people pay for this level of training? They're like we were all pumped. It was awesome. And then I think that three weeks of training there led to that first scene being so effective Because they did have that little bit of brotherhood, camaraderie on this project together.

Speaker 3 1:36:54

Some of the trivia that I I have here is that they all stayed in the same hotel, okay, and they made sure that all the rooms in the hotel that they were renting, uh, had all the actors and all of the advisors adjacent to each other. Okay, so actors would have their own room, but then, like they'd be right next to another advisor or something which was, and you know, either active duty or retired seal and so they were in the hotel for five weeks just hanging out, just hanging out like rehearsing and going over shit, which I think it shows because, to your point too, man, those those two guys on the m249s on that rooftop- the cover and move.

Speaker 2 1:37:35

It was one thing.

Speaker 3 1:37:36

One thing you could tell when it's CGI, excuse me, and they're not using blanks, is the posture of leaning into that firearm. And you see, those guys take that not totally grounded kneel Because a totally grounded kneeling stance when you put your knee to the ground, you can feel it essentially break the tension from your calf to your gluteus maximus, like you can feel break the tension of your calf flexing to your butt and therefore when you're shooting it makes your yeah, pushes you back and makes you want to put your butt to your heel.

Speaker 3 1:38:15

But you watch the movie and you see the way those guys take the stance and kneel and they never let their knees touch so they never break that muscle tension, so that way they can maintain that accurate full fire down range without like having them like seating backwards. And I just saw that and I was just like, damn, that is such good attention to detail.

Speaker 3 1:38:38

I mean, I'm not, I've never shot a fully automatic weapon, Right, but I know a lot of guys who have, and a lot of those guys you know have have, you know, told me and shown me like, hey, here's a. You can tell the difference between, like, someone who knows what they're doing and someone who doesn't.

Speaker 3 1:38:57

And the biggest thing is like how your full body is engaging to handle full auto recoil and uh dude, they did it like flawlessly and it looked, it looked amazing. It looked like guys who had been really trained on how to do it.

Speaker 2 1:39:07

Um I thought that part was sweet yeah and like again that's the thing.

Speaker 3 1:39:10

Like right, you got two guys going full auto with belt feds on a rooftop, and that's when you expect them to just be like stacking bodies in the street.

Speaker 1 1:39:19

You have no idea.

Speaker 3 1:39:20

You have no idea, just as much as they have no idea.

Speaker 2 1:39:23

Yeah. And they know is they haven't been shot.

Speaker 3 1:39:25

And even they get overwhelmed with fire and they're like we can't hold this, we got to go back.

Speaker 2 1:39:31

We can't hold the roof, maybe crawling out of there, yeah, and and then during that scene, also back and forth downstairs, you've got the, the seals have come to reinforce, they're back together.

The Cost of Combat

Speaker 2 1:39:41

And I was thinking about this, um, because, because we saw eric alpha one, he's like he's messed up and we know it, but we know he hasn't let his team know it yet because they've got other things going on I'm so happy you're saying and they're like, because this is what I really want to say too and because they're as like they're always like hey, like, hey, man, like blood sweep check you out, like they're checking each other out, everybody's getting checked out, but like he's clearly not okay, he is bad, like, and no one's done a blood sweep and I was expecting him to be like eventually a blood sweep comes out and he's like he's gonna die. Yeah, you know it comes to. You know hindsight, you know they were really speaking to brain injury and like impact of that um.

Speaker 2 1:40:22

But um, alpha 2 comes in and backing up a little bit member, and I guess the guy's name must have been jake, who played him, because he, yeah, jake charles melton, was alpha 2 because he says his first name because on when, because they the freaking other platoon is, or squad's not getting to them. They've already delayed and a part of their delay, you know, I guess maybe they all would have died in the ied if they'd been there on time, but still it's like they can't get their shit together. They won't get over to him and at this point he's like he says his name over the radio which that that was a cue, that like he needed him over there. When he says his name, he's like, you know, alpha two. He's like jake, I need you here, like you gotta.

Speaker 2 1:41:06

You know that was and I don't know if other people picked up on that, but that was a clear sign over comms using someone's name. Like we need you. You know, like it's I don't. You know, I'm going out of robotic mode like I'm. Yeah, I need my friend, you know.

Speaker 3 1:41:21

And then to that point too, like as someone who's done like you know, uh, law enforcement, comms. I've never heard someone using like addressing anyone else by plain name over comms. I never was taught that it's a no, no, no, no, but it is like I, I can see as like a breakdown of command and couldn't like uh, what's the word? Um, the, what's the?

Speaker 1 1:41:50

aura of professionalism.

Speaker 3 1:41:52

You know what I'm talking about not uh context, but yeah, but it is a total violation of the uh command structure and professionalism uh, camorum, no, not camorum decor decorum, yeah decorum. It's a violation of the decorum of like professionality over the radio, um, but like when he said that I do remember I was like ooh, fuck, he's hurt and I thought he was gonna die too, and they don't say names because of more like it's.

Speaker 2 1:42:25

You know, police law enforcement will be one thing, but especially if you have a chance of enemy listening to you and knowing your name, you know it's a no-go but, so then he alpha 2 gets in there and he like he locks it down a little bit.

Speaker 3 1:42:41

Well, he says anyone done a blood sweep on you?

Speaker 2 1:42:43

Then he goes to him on the bed and he's like let me check you out, like, has anybody checked you out? And then the guy just keeps Alpha 1's just talking about his team and he's like no, like you, like, are you okay, I'm gonna check you out now and like, and then that's when he finally admits it. He's like.

Speaker 2 1:43:00

he's like, I'm fucked up, I need, I need you to take command and so you gotta take command also the humility in that of a one you know he's in bad shape to the humility and like like awesome leadership skill to be like poor yourself when you're not any longer like value add.

Speaker 2 1:43:17

I thought I really appreciated that scene and and like these two guys are, they're in charge of all these other guys and their response, their big brother, these, this is, this is big brothers, taking care of all the rest of the kids, and it's like you know they have a little side conversation, chat of like you know hey, chat like you know, hey, I'm out, you're in, I'm, you know, and like that, like understanding and like team workers.

Speaker 2 1:43:41

I thought it was cool and special and uh felt real too, though, and it felt real because, at the same time as this is happening, there's this hard charging, big, purple dick, swinging tough guy. You know, freaking dude, it's big, it's a big, you know. It's like he's just, he's just, he's just, he's just after, you know. So you know he comes in and uh, this guy, um, you know he's trying to just be, be uh, tough seal and do that. You got this, you're fine, you're all right like rub some dirt in it, you know, and like slapping him, the injured guy on the leg, you know, and that scene I thought was really cool too, like to one.

Speaker 3 1:44:16

Um, just so you know, this guy is the actor, you know, and that scene I thought was really cool too, like to one. Um, just so you know this guy is, the actor is Evan Holtzman, and the nickname the cast came up with nicknames for everyone His nickname while they were shooting was cowboy. Oh yeah, and so Evan Holtzman is this guy who comes in and fucking literally kicks the legs of the dudes whose legs are blown up.

Speaker 2 1:44:38

Yeah, and then people keep tripping on the legs. All these guys are coming in like we're hot shit, you know, and it is this thing I mean they were showing. That's who SEALs are. You know. You talk to other people. You know we love SEAL movies, we love SEAL books, but also then you talk to people about SEALs and like, lots, like lots of people are going to be like, yeah, seals are douchebags, you know, and a lot of them are, I'm sure you know, and a lot of them are awesome too, and so, but they, they took the time to depict both of it and all of it. And do you remember there's a um, there's a scene where he gets behind him Cowboy, doesn't? He just says, um, hey, all right, You're, you're trying to Btf it. You know btf is beat the fuck out of it. No, btf is big, tough frog man. Oh, really, it's so. It's like, it's like no, you like anytime you're down and out, like, so, like if you're in buds, you know, and it's like btf like you're a big tough frog man.

Speaker 2 1:45:27

You get through it, you get through it, you don't quit, you don't quit. You know that kind of like whole thing.

Speaker 2 1:45:31

I like beat the fuck out of it yeah, and it's a big tough frog man and that's where, like, um, he came in trying to be a big tough frog man and he wasn't reading the room and having like the wherewithal, whereas ray and ray was like trying, like like he doesn't need this right now, get off of him. Like you know, this stuff, like the big, the real big tough frog man, was alpha two. You know, like, yeah, has his stuff together strong leader, like it was cool and so, like you know, and seals get a bad rap for being douchey sometimes and I appreciate that they put the douchey seal in there and also like and they also like you know they.

Speaker 2 1:46:04

If you can't in any, in any anywhere in the world, if you can't make fun of yourself or your community or your people or those little things and stuff, then, like you, you don't build rapport with everybody. So like just like being able to say like hey, you know, we know this is how it is like and this is this is how it goes. Sometimes people act like this, you know, um, but then seeing the flip side of alpha 2 and his like leadership coming in, I thought that was just a.

Speaker 3 1:46:30

I liked it yeah, no, I agree I thought it was pretty realistic, um, and you know like, uh, there was something I think for me like very cathartic in the relief of um will polter's character being able to surrender right um, because you know, as an audience member he's fucked, and you're wondering the whole time and like, when he has the humility to surrender command, you're like, okay, maybe he won't die, because how, what hollywood would do is make him like. You know what was it?

Speaker 3 1:47:09

btf yeah yeah yeah, make him btf and go out in a blaze of glory or something right by in time, and, uh, what actually happens, right, is that it's like, okay, like, no, like I'm, I'm, I'm responsible for these guys. I'm humble enough to admit I can't be responsible, like I need someone better. Which leads us to the next thing. Which did you find anything on this? The uh, sergeant, um, which I think the sergeant is played by an aaron mckenzie I'm double checking on it real quick. Um, I just want to give him credit because he was so good and I would nope, not aaron mckenzie. Um, he was so good and believable, uh that I thought he was an actual seal, like just playing the role in the film.

Speaker 2 1:47:57

Ray's counterpart, essentially Like he had Ray's same role on the other team. Yeah, like who calls in comms and stuff, charles Mellon.

Speaker 3 1:48:05

Charles Mellon is his name. He ain't been in much. He was in Riverdale a little bit, yeah, no, he was so good and squared away that it made me think he was an actual, like retired seal, uh, giving his time to the film, um. But yeah, did you see anything? If like that was I mean I, you know what like I mean from, like what we have from the facts of the shooting, that was real, like two or more accounts, I bet the accounts are that sergeant and that comms you know, seal and be like yeah, sergeant told me to pretend to be the CEO and call in the cast.

Speaker 3 1:48:52

Yeah, cause, that's. That's a lot of people don't get like. I looked at my buddy, the manager, and I was like hey, man that's insane.

Speaker 2 1:48:59

That's bad.

Speaker 3 1:49:00

That dude's facing like life in prison.

Speaker 2 1:49:04

Yeah, like, at very least like his job.

Speaker 3 1:49:06

Minimum Right, but like yeah, like Minimum I know guys who have gone to prison, Like I know guys who were in the military who got judicial punishment and dishonorable discharge and went to prison over way less.

Speaker 2 1:49:22

They were stealing a couple gun magazines, which speaks to the scene where why they went out and risked their ass to get that rifle.

Speaker 3 1:49:31

Yeah, In the sledgehammer. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 1:49:34

I was like dude, leave the sledgehammer, bro Get out on the street it's like it's a sledgehammer.

Speaker 3 1:49:42

yeah, yeah, I know I was like dude, leave the sledgehammer get out on the street.

Speaker 2 1:49:43

It's like, yeah, it's a sledgehammer dog, I'm sure they got them here in iraq like, and now from the, the rifles they recovered? Like there is like a don't let the enemy have any of that stuff. But then yeah, it's funny like and because yeah, I mean, you face huge charges, and so I half wonder if they fabricated that character.

Speaker 3 1:49:57

You mean Finn Bennett's character John.

Speaker 2 1:49:58

Finn Bennett's character, Like he didn't exist so that they could oh keep it anonymous. It's like, yeah, it's like who was it? I don't know, yeah, exactly that character's not real. Like it might've been Rey, right, Like Rey might. Like that's a good point. At that point of my like, I'd been like the CEO, like it has to get approved by a CEO, Like like you know it's so fucking crazy, I don't know what they did.

Speaker 2 1:50:23

I would like to like round a campfire with Raymond. Does it be like, hey man, like what's the deal with that? You know, just tell me like, and he'll be the truth, you know, and, and it might be like actually like statute of limitations on. That is like three years. That dude's out now and he runs like an awesome tech company and, like he said, put it in, I don't give a shit. You know so like I don't know, but like the um, I did love it.

Speaker 3 1:50:45

It was um, you could see like when the Sergeant told him to do.

Speaker 2 1:50:50

When he asked him, he knew what he was asking him.

Speaker 3 1:50:51

He was like I'm asking you to fuck yourself, give your life.

Speaker 2 1:50:55

Give your life right now, give your life for this.

Speaker 3 1:50:57

And you could see Finn Bennett. Here's the thing about Finn Bennett. If you know Finn Bennett Pat and I were talking about before he was in. Unfortunately he was in the most recent season of True Detective, night Country. But it's his eyes, man, it's his eyes. He has these eyes that look so sardonic, so sad, so lost. And when you hide a hide his hairdo, right, you hide his like young man hairdo underneath the fucking kevlar helmet and you're just looking at them.

Speaker 2 1:51:33

Eyes you're like dude, that is a guy who's seen some fucking shit and it's his eyes that express everything when um charles character says hey, you gotta be the co, you gotta be the co or we're gonna fucking die and he's like okay, I'll throw it away and like you see him go back to the room and do it, and actually I take it back now because they put his face next to another guy's face in the credits the dude who's wearing the like rocker mullet wig oh yeah, so you're right, that guy's out that dude. He was like. He was like unblur my face. He was like I fucking did it, I did it, I did it. I don't give a shit what I did. You know, I did it. I don't give a shit what.

Speaker 2 1:52:15

I did you know what I mean. And to his point, like, honestly, everybody should do what he did. Bill Winters, great example of this. Bill Winters, he was in charge of Easy Company, band of Brothers, yep Right, and there was a time when his officer basically said, hey, you have to go out on this patrol. And the patrol was worthless to them, to the broader mission set, worthless to any strategic like goals. All it was going to do was going to get his guys killed, and so just going to put them in the way of enemy fire yeah, it's, and it was not going to move the needle at all anyway.

Speaker 2 1:52:54

And so he said, yes, sir, and he went and he walked his guys down the road and they went and sat in a barn all night.

Speaker 3 1:53:01

Well, not only that, I mean not to steal the thunder, but his guys had just gotten back Right From essentially doing the same thing they were told to go do that night.

Speaker 2 1:53:12

Go do it again and they realized there's nothing out there.

Speaker 3 1:53:14

But and they realize there's nothing out there but the bad there's nothing out there but enemy like machine gun traps. Yeah, there's nothing to win and so he was like well, sorry, go ahead no, I mean, I mean basically.

Speaker 2 1:53:27

But basically, long story short would be that he um ignored orders, he broke the rules and, uh, ultimately saved his men's lives. Yeah, you know, it was close to the end of their deployment too right, it was like within weeks, broke the rules and ultimately saved his men's lives.

Speaker 3 1:53:36

Yeah, you know it was close to the end of their deployment too. Right, it was like within weeks of them being done and getting to go home and have some R and R. Yep, it was also at the close of, like the Western front.

Speaker 2 1:53:48

Yeah, Like the whole damn deal.

Speaker 3 1:53:50

So it's like bro, what are you having us do?

Speaker 2 1:53:52

Yeah, why am I going gonna send my guys to die? And so sometimes the top brass, they can suck it, you know?

Speaker 3 1:53:57

yeah, for real, that is exactly how I feel about some top brass shit. Sometimes I think about it. I'm just like so detached from reality.

Speaker 3 1:54:07

Eat wiener um all right uh, I think the final outcome here is right. Like we, we get the cassavac arrival and we get the push into the Casavac, everyone's loading up and there's essentially two Casavacs right there's the one that gets the injured out and then the ones that come out to get everyone who's not injured in the ending. The ending if there's anything you don't, if you, if there's anything you want to talk about before the ending, like you know, feel free to interrupt me, but I think the ending is like the most, like poignant contrasting event.

Speaker 2 1:54:45

No, I think that the the things there was one this movie is short, so know that it's short, going in 90 minutes, or else you're gonna think that like, oh, now the big shoot them up battle's gonna happen. Right it Right, it's like you know. So one. It was interesting that, because I didn't realize how short it. I knew how short it was, but then it really, with credits and extra things, it's actually like 80. It's like, yeah, like 75. It's like real short. Cause I was watching on my watch I was like, oh well, like Rey gets in the first, like Eve Kazovac.

Speaker 3 1:55:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:55:19

And then I was like oh, I was like main man's not going to be in the big fight at the end, right yeah, and there really wasn't a big fight at the end. But then you know. And then, the other point being, while he gave up command, last man yeah, that's the thing Was the last man out was still alpha one. Yeah, so he, like and like you know, and he didn't even get a good seat, he had to lay down on all those bastards knees. But did you notice that, like, yeah, like they loaded up and then he still, like alpha two, got?

Speaker 3 1:55:51

in. He was the last one he was. He still was like, like I'm, he still last manned it like like a baller which is crazy, because a lot of people just do not comprehend that, like our military's command ethos of like what makes a good officer, is entirely modeled after christ, and I'm not trying to like force insert here, right.

Speaker 3 1:56:13

but like, ask anyone who was in the military that was enlisted, and they will say the best officers they ever saw were the officers who you know, got in line last and were the first to volunteer for shit. Like they were. Like the best officers were the ones who like, hey, my men eat before I do, or my men load up before I do, I'm the first one out of the truck, I'm the first one out of the tank, I'm the first one out of the counter. That is, without a doubt, always the narrative of guys who are like, yeah, the best officer I saw was so-and-so. That's Christ's leadership dude For sure.

Speaker 2 1:56:53

They showed it throughout the movie the whole time, like when Ray couldn't find the gear. So then Alpha One goes in, gets the gear. Same with Alpha Two. Guys are like I can't get out there. He grabbed one guy you're coming with me and he went out there and grabbed the sledgehammer off the street.

Speaker 3 1:57:10

Yeah, Alpha.

Speaker 2 1:57:10

Two also showed that leadership. You know like that level.

Speaker 3 1:57:14

Good.

Speaker 2 1:57:14

NCOs Dude also showed that leadership like that, that level, and there's so many military guys out there, out there with John 5, 13 tattooed on them who, like, have nothing to do with Christianity, but it's a. You know that. You know greater love has none of this than a man who lays down his life for his friends, you know. And so that is like uh, um, that's the thing, right.

Speaker 3 1:57:36

Yeah, that's the thing, right.

Speaker 1 1:57:43

yeah, yeah and I, you know, I I guess in closing right for the.

Speaker 3 1:57:45

The film is like. The final scenes are the silence of the bradley's rolling away, these combat vehicles with everyone in them. We, we leave no man behind. As far as we know, no man has died, and the family comes out from the room they were being held in.

Speaker 3 1:58:01

They just got wrecked by a tank fire they see their houses here and they go outside and there's no. Like part of me was expecting that the taliban would just be like fuck it, shoot them, I gun them down, yeah, but there's no vengeance, vendetta thing. The taliban or these insurgents, they just step out onto the street kind of assess, like all right, I guess it's over.

Speaker 2 1:58:26

They all come out. It's interesting because they all like and part of it we never saw the enemy clearly until now. They all, they've just popped out of all their hidey holes. They all just came right out. Yep, you know, and they're all in the street and they just kind of there's no there's no wickedness.

Speaker 3 1:58:41

Like they come out and you recognize it's like dude. A lot of these guys are just gonna have to go home and make some meat like dinner you know like all these guys are just gonna have to go home and grab dinner like, because none of them come out and start celebrating none of them come out and start parading a dead man through the streets. It's not black hawk down right, they're just like huh and you're there's all right yeah, and I guess they drove away and then again tomorrow I guess I go home and need some falafels yeah, and like it's.

Speaker 3 1:59:11

It's pretty crazy, you know, and, um, it's very honest, because that's probably exactly what they saw on the flare feeds. You know what I mean? Right, the flare probably showed like dude, yeah, they came out of their corners in the houses and they started making like cleaning up shit, and then they went home, I expect.

Speaker 2 1:59:30

I have. Did you half expect to see them all get roasted?

Speaker 3 1:59:33

No I mean like. I 100, 100 expected. Like I've been conditioned to expect, they just kill the family, as like right, fuck you.

Speaker 2 1:59:40

Yeah, I thought the family was in danger, but there's a little piece of me being like they come out and just get like it's like specter one, one clear we're all gay 10 and just or just a is this another show of force.

Speaker 2 1:59:58

They're like negative. Yeah, no, kill them all Doesn't happen. No, and I think it's it leaves on the note of us running away. Well, it does it. It's. I think it speaks to how these events happened individually. Yeah, and it definitely is a broader. It's just it's a couple things it's speaking to. It's like hey, it's not over yet. We're still here. We're kind of nonchalantly walking around back to our homes you know, and so did anything change at all no, yeah, they definitely.

Speaker 2 2:00:32

They definitely gave that little bit of picture at the end. They they went meta metaphorical like how many.

Speaker 3 2:00:39

My biggest question as soon as it went to the credits and showing the pictures of guys my first thing in my mind before I saw the photos pop up was how much money was spent if there were actually no fatalities on either side, right like, let's imagine, there's some like hurt insurgents like a 10 million dollar battle on both sides, and yeah, and it costs the us military 10 billion dollars for the jets and the, you know casavax, and just the surveillance and the teal seals being out there and the injuries, I'm just like, and no one died.

Speaker 2 2:01:15

It's fucking nuts bro, yeah, nothing was changed or nothing different happened. Yeah, oh yeah. And that's where the difference between, I will say, american Sniper, act of Valor, those types of movies when did those come out? Pre-afghan withdrawal Also there's a different attitude.

Speaker 3 2:01:37

A way different attitude.

Speaker 2 2:01:39

Regardless of your accuracy of storytelling and all that stuff.

Speaker 3 2:01:44

I think the truth is we're getting the post-Vietnam era movies.

Speaker 2 2:01:47

I was about to say we should go look at Vietnam movies that were made during the end of the Vietnam conflict and then a couple after, and you'll see, I think very similarly, a different kind of flavor on the back end honest attitude, yeah, yeah which you know it could be interesting to see that. But I agree with that, with that uh evaluation I.

Speaker 3 2:02:11

I have a couple things here. We're growing longer in the tooth. This episode would probably be longer than the movie, oh yeah, but it was a great movie and I just have a couple other trivia points I haven't talked on. This is sick. This is so cool. I'm a big Sopranos fan. Yeah, I'm not Italian. I have no. What's the word Allegiance to the Italian mobsbs? I don't glorify the mob at all, but damn, do I not love James Gandolfini? I think James Gandolfini is a phenomenal actor. Every year I try to watch like one or two movies that he was in, even if I've already seen him, just to appreciate his work, because I thought he was excellent. And Michael Gandolfini who played who played a lieutenant mcdonald, uh, his, uh, dad james, worked with the wounded warrior project and a lot of people who watch the sopranos as it was coming out know this because james gandolfini would be in wounded warrior project commercials, especially during the height of, like, the war on terror and sopranos yep and uh.

Speaker 3 2:03:19

He actually traveled to iraq and afghanistan to meet active duty and military veterans and during that time he would send them watches. He sent like watches and like you know other stuff to injured soldiers. Joe Hildebrand, who is portrayed by Joseph Quinn as Sam in the film and. Elliot Miller received watches from James Gandolfini. Huh, and they got to show those watches to Michael.

Speaker 2 2:03:52

Oh, like the real dudes.

Speaker 3 2:03:53

The real dudes were like Michael. Your dad is a fucking legend he sent us these watches while we were injured in the hospital. Wow, can you imagine that, dude, your dad's dead, your dad's gone. He was taken too early.

Speaker 2 2:04:08

He should still be here.

Speaker 3 2:04:09

He should still be here and he's gone and you're being an actor kind of following his footsteps. You got some actual war heroes who are like your dad is a hero to me. Yeah, he recognized me. Like that would break me, dude. I'm getting emotional just thinking about like my eyes are watery, just like picturing like I wish the emotional experience, short clip of it.

Speaker 2 2:04:31

I wish I could be a fly on the wall yeah, dude, because you know that was insane.

Speaker 3 2:04:36

Um, the, uh, the initial bradley's that arrived to the casavac, uh, to casavac elliott that received that, like you know, were part of the ied. One of the things people see in the movie is like the ramp come up and the casavac leave, yeah they're like we're out what's not explained which I think is a good reason why it's not explained is that that ied actually injured the drivers of that casavac they had to leave.

Speaker 3 2:05:04

Uh, they had a femoral artery bleed, yeah. And so the reason they left was because the main operator, the driver, was incapacitated.

Speaker 3 2:05:14

The second, a command of that, casavac, took over and was like we gotta get the fuck out of here, right, and so he, he pulled it out, which sure they could have shown a perspective of an actor or actors that you would never see later on at all, but they're like, or they could just be like, yeah, exactly, the perspective of the injured, right. What the fuck they're leaving, right, which I thought was the right call.

Speaker 2 2:05:37

Yeah, it's a good call, because they allude to it through a radio call where they're like we have injured, we're coming in, yeah, but if not, showing some other guy in the cab screaming, squirting blood, leaves it to where you just go. I mean, yeah, I felt helpless, yeah, when that ramp went up. The ramp was like the ramp was like it was brutal. The ramp was like god or like the ramp was. The ramp in this movie in some ways was Like it was just so life or death.

Speaker 3 2:06:08

It was? Yeah, it was. I forgot it was there until it started going up and I was like, oh man, they're fucked.

Speaker 2 2:06:14

And then when they came out and the ramp came down again, I was like oh, thank god, there's a, there's a ramp down. And once it closed, you're like okay, yeah, all clear.

Speaker 3 2:06:23

I gotta piss again, bro, it's because it's honestly this much. All this is empty.

Speaker 1 2:06:33

Fuck, I love you, I don't know uh, look at you, look at this amateur hour, uh, um.

Speaker 3 2:08:48

Next bit of trivia. The set had a hole in the floor for, uh, cosmo jarvis's real legs to be hidden, uh, and then of course they had the prosthetic legs of you know, the traumatized blown out white fox legs, which makes sense. I never thought of that watching that scene, like there's other horror movies I've seen, where I'm like, oh, that guy who's cut in half. The scarecrow His legs are actually in a hole in the ground. Those intestines are the prosthetic right, this one I was looking at.

Speaker 2 2:09:18

I was like I just legit thought they just did a bunch of makeup on his legs. Yeah, I, I the. The gore was so wild and I was. I. I wasn't even thinking about the like production, I was just was like, holy crap, that's real like it was so real I didn't even think about it.

Speaker 3 2:09:33

I just was like damn, that's a dude with his legs through a meat grinder yeah, um, lastly, and you know, pat, here for our long-time listeners, you know this, but pat's a big jocko buddy. Oh yeah, jocko boy, he drinks the jocko drinks, oh yeah, but uh, pretty sick. You know, it's pretty cool. Um task force bruiser, which was seal team three, uh, who was there prior to seal team five arriving, which was, uh, ray's team, and the, the three squads that were a part of that. Um, seal team three, task force bruiser was commanded by jackalo Willink. Um, and after retiring, willink became a best-selling author, podcaster, leadership consultant, all that jazz. Um, and he's had a lot of his former team guys on his podcast talking about this stuff. Um, so if you're interested in knowing more about Ramadi, check out Jocko's podcast.

Speaker 2 2:10:35

Yeah, because I will say semi-recently, somebody made some pretty egregious claims about tasking a bruiser and war crimes and all this stuff and Jocko, I'll say, hasn't made a statement or addressed it directly. Here's the deal Jocko always indirect warfare. He's true to his principles. He's not deal Jocko always indirect warfare. He's true to his principles. He's not going to come on straight onto this guy like this guy. You know he's enough.

Speaker 3 2:11:04

He's just going to pay one of his buddies to take him out.

Speaker 2 2:11:06

No, no, here's what he did. Here's what he did. He's done like he did 10 or 12 podcasts in a row, bringing in all these different ranking people who were in the Battle of Ramadi on his podcast, yeah, and just had them talk about what they did. So it was so genius, his war fighting. This guy accuses Jocko and Chris Kyle and all these guys of all this stuff, and so, instead of, like you know, feeding the fire, like even addressing that guy exists, jocko just brought on all these dudes from the Battle of Ramadi I mean generals down to Just to bring validation.

Speaker 2 2:11:42

Yeah, just to bring validation, and so what's cool about that, though, is now you have this really cool documented history of the battle, what happened there, and you get super familiar with it and all the things that went on there, because they SEAL Team 3 set the stage for the work that then seal team five did, um, which you know, and uh, the. So I think that, yeah, one definitely you could check out his stuff, and, if you, obviously if you, if you're finding out about draco from mick and pat well, crazy, that means we've made it boys, but um, but um, I do think uh you can get, if you want to understand, ramadi, a lot more, um, you can uh look dig into his stuff, cause there's, there's a lot of things in there.

Speaker 3 2:12:24

Um for sure, and I will, I mean I gotta say this oh yeah, you gotta take what everyone on Jocko's podcast and Jocko himself says with a pinch of salt For sure, because it is, it is. You know, everyone knows when they go on that lots of people are listening.

Speaker 3 2:12:42

A lot of people are listening and that like it could lead to movie deal, book deal, whatever right. Oh yeah, I'm not saying that what they're. I'm not saying anyone's a liar, I'm just saying you got to understand that like there may be some embellishment. But yeah, I truly do believe from what I've listened to there are some very valid accounts of what happened in ramadi and honestly, I just don't like I guess I don't care that much about like a hundred percent honesty, as much as it's like giving me the like the big picture points of like yeah, it fucking sucked and there was a lot of failures and there's a lot of mess ups and here's how we handled it exactly.

Speaker 2 2:13:24

Yeah, it's to be like the, to be 20 years in retrospect. Yeah, evaluating warfare on like this, like almost like the, the microscope of like cancel culture of ability to be like well, in this case, did you do this like I don't know, but we did it, you know, type of thing. Yeah, for sure um, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 2:13:44

We both just said for sure at the same time. The uh, sometimes we finish each other's sandwiches, okay all right, I thought I did the my favorite.

Speaker 2 2:14:00

One of my favorite parts of the movie was that first show of force from that freaking that was the best part of the movie.

Speaker 3 2:14:06

The best part of the movie was when the F-18 actually I guess what. F-16 just came down and put those angel wing dusts up. I saw it coming and then it blasted over me and I felt my asshole release yeah, dude, it was, it was that's the thing.

Speaker 3 2:14:29

There's a difference between, like if something triggers your asshole to pop, you still have conscious, physical control over your body. If your asshole dilates and releases, you have no control over yourself. You have that's a true vulnerability. I feel like I've told you this. I went to a blue angel show once. Oh, dude it's incredible dude.

Speaker 2 2:14:57

I went to a blue angel show once. Oh dude, it's incredible dude.

Speaker 3 2:14:59

I went to a blue angel show once up in michigan and, uh, I remember I was watching them do their thing. I was like, wait a second, there's only five jets there, where's the? And the six one came over our head at like 200 feet from behind and just yeah, and my, like the little bitch, I was dude, my sixth grader, seventh grader, knees buckled, oh yeah, for I remember watching like as my like I, it was a totally like.

Speaker 3 2:15:31

There was no true, it was a primal you know it was an insect, like my knees buckled, I went down, my hands were like folded in between my thighs and I just like slumped on the grass, yeah, as that shockwave went over my head, and I watched. I watched in front of me as, like you know, three dozen other people just collapsed yeah, because they had never felt that, in pure euphoria terror and, uh, I was so embarrassed when I stood up.

Speaker 3 2:16:04

I was like I stood up and I looked around and there was other people who hadn't collapsed and I just remember being like what, what the fuck just happened? I'm not chill with that and it was one of those bows I'll always remember and like seeing that in the movie theater it definitely triggered that, like I, felt my asshole and I was like yeah, that's scary for real force yeah, it was awesome and so cool for all the hell the chair force gets.

Speaker 2 2:16:34

They're pretty dope pretty cool guys and yes, because I've been working on my. Here we go, you ready.

Speaker 3 2:16:39

It's like this that's actually really good. That's really good.

Speaker 2 2:16:55

That is the sound of freedom. If you're an american, yeah.

Speaker 3 2:17:00

If you're not, it's a bad sound to hear my friends, yeah, yeah, because I mean the worst case scenario is, by the time you hear it, the you know 20 millimeter is already going through your chest it's all, it's all done.

Speaker 2 2:17:16

It's all over. Yeah, it's all over.

Speaker 1 2:17:17

Yeah, that's really good, there's two types of guys in the world, yeah.

Speaker 3 2:17:20

One type practices F 16, F 18 sounds. The other type practices tie fighters. Oh yeah. Yeah, um, no, dude. Yeah, no, that was, that was great, and like they did it three times and I never got sick of it, yeah.

Speaker 2 2:17:37

Yep.

Speaker 3 2:17:37

Three times they did it and every time I was like God, that's fucking crazy. My biggest thing was like how is it no other war movie? Thought like we should include that Right.

Speaker 2 2:17:49

There's no other war movie that has that in it and I'm like that's the sickest thing. I was like. I was like I was like show of force, that's so gay. Like initially before I saw it it was like, hey, we can't shoot them, we can show them our stuff though. So it's like you know, way up high, just like a plane flies by.

Speaker 3 2:18:05

We got bombs.

Speaker 2 2:18:06

Yeah, it's like what are you talking about? And then they did it and I was like that should make you go home, yeah.

Speaker 3 2:18:15

Why are we here? This is dumb. Why are we fighting?

Speaker 2 2:18:19

them. It also should make you be like, wow, they could kill all of us at any second, and they don't.

Speaker 3 2:18:28

The reason they're not doing this is because of politics.

Speaker 2 2:18:32

Politics. And honest we don't kill women and children. Yes and honest, like we don't kill women and children. Like, yes, it happens, but like we, sometimes like we, like we, but we, like we go to extreme measures to not do that.

Speaker 2 2:18:45

You know, and we could, we could, we could turn your glass sandbox, your sandbox, into a glass sheet, you know, and. But like we don't, don't you know, and so like, but um, oh, man, the uh. I thought I thought the movie was awesome. I really, I really enjoyed it. I don't know if I would enjoy it as much if I was 16 I think I would have but like it was incredible, like it does, it does like, feel like a movie that is very, very tailored I don't.

Speaker 3 2:19:11

part of me thinks it's almost not tailored to my combat vet friends. Part of me feels like it's tailored to be a movie that my combat vet friends take me to Like my combat vet friends are like hey, come watch this, because this is actually really good. This is really accurate, like.

Speaker 1 2:19:35

if you want to know what it's like, this is it.

Speaker 3 2:19:40

And I think that's like just a unfortunately, that's a small segment of our population nowadays. Because, yeah, I thought it was cool that the manager of the movie theater he's a younger guy than me. He was like, dude, you gotta watch this, let me take you, it'll be, it'll be free. Yeah, I was like all right, sick um, and to see him get it and like appreciate it was pretty cool. Yeah, but, dude, if I was his age I would have been like, yeah, whatever like I was expecting a lot more heads popping yeah, you know whatever, yeah, and so, yeah, I think I think the backside perspective is very that's a what.

Speaker 2 2:20:21

What gives it its power? Um, and it's, I mean lots of people, some, lots of people are already trying to call it like movie of the year and things like that, and I mean so far what I've seen, sure, because everything else has been a remake or something else or you know, like whatever you know what was the ied movie?

Final Thoughts and Ratings

Speaker 3 2:20:38

back in the day, like about 10 years ago, it was the uh ex-wife of james cameron. She made it something zone um, green zone. No, green zone was like matt damon. Matt damon, yeah, um, oh, not a zone.

Speaker 2 2:20:55

He hurt locker oh, oh, hurt locker. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hurt locker with honestly, I, I get it's like hurt lockerish.

Speaker 3 2:21:02

It is hurt lockerish, but I think hurt locker is even Hollywoodized like her locker has a whole scene where, like that fucking team picks up a sniper system, uh-huh to shoot insurgents right, I I'm like what the fuck?

Speaker 2 2:21:17

Like that doesn't happen. And Hurt Locker is kind of made to make you feel more bad about. Same with Jarhead. It's not a Warfare, is not an anti-war movie, it's just a thing that says, hey, this happened to us one day and I'm going to tell you about it. Yeah, you know, and so like it's, not like it's, I don't.

Speaker 3 2:21:39

I didn't feel like there was any agenda one way or the other I think that's why I liked it so much, because I didn't feel like they were like yeah, war's bad right, war's bad right, yeah. Or like you feel like war is bad or join the navy seals today either one. It was just, wasn't either.

Speaker 2 2:21:52

I was just like wow that, that's a story worth telling you know yeah, yeah, no, I 100 agree.

Speaker 3 2:22:00

Um, all right, dude, I've been. Here's the thing. I've been not been looking for the rating. Uh-huh, I'm torn. I'm torn between two and one I'm being honest with you, man.

Speaker 1 2:22:14

I'm gonna be honest with you, just the way.

Speaker 3 2:22:16

Hey, pet, look at me, I'm fucked up.

Speaker 2 2:22:22

These beers did a number on me. You got brain injuries from this movie?

Speaker 3 2:22:29

is it two thumbs? Because I've never seen a movie as honest as this is about the war on terror is it?

Speaker 2 2:22:38

one thumb, just because it can only say so much without more time is barely feature length, you know, yeah it's really hard for me to decide on from, like a cinematic, like you know, cinephile perspective I I'll say because we haven't with these, we haven't with our movies, like a with our beers. A two-thumb rating is like a, you know, all-star beer beyond all-star.

Speaker 3 2:23:11

Everyone needs to drink it.

Speaker 2 2:23:13

Versus like this, the, the, the film ratings are different as far as, like, I mean, yeah, you're gonna be like okay, like, okay, yeah, it's not a. This, it's not a that, you know, it's not a Star Wars, it's not a you know, whatever Like. But I'll say I don't have anything bad to say about it.

Speaker 1 2:23:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:23:31

I have like zero complaints. I actually appreciated like the length of time it was. It was kind of nice. It felt longer to me. I don't know about you, man.

Speaker 3 2:23:39

But every time I looked at my watch I was like I know, this movie is 90 minutes, right. I looked at my watch and I was like holy fucking shit, it feels like this movie is two hours. And then that was because of stress.

Speaker 2 2:23:53

You know what I mean. Yeah, because it brings you to the story and and that was because of stress you know what I mean. Yeah, because it brings you to the story. And I agree, I'm in the same boat. It's like a I think it's a combined Mick and Pat three thumbs up. You know, this is one of those ones where it's yeah, you know what I mean, it's not four thumbs up as far as, like, we'll live on for all time.

Speaker 3 2:24:17

Have we ever given a movie four thumbs up?

Speaker 2 2:24:21

Lots of times. I think We've given it some four thumb up beers. Yeah, we've had some four thumb up beers. I don't know if a movie's ever gone in and we haven't as diligently thumb rated all of our movies as our beers. But I think this is one of those ones where I'm like I'll say this you should see it, you got to see it, you got to see it, you know.

Speaker 3 2:24:40

If you can go see it at your best. Buddy's biggest like subwoofer surround sound system?

Speaker 2 2:24:46

Yeah, for sure. And so I think like the fair compromise would be like, as we're both torn, it'd be like make him pat three thumbs up because Three out of four thumbs up. You know what I mean it's like, and it's just. There was never a point where I I have zero complaints. I'm giving it two thumbs.

Speaker 3 2:25:10

Do you have to be forcing me?

Speaker 2 2:25:11

to give it to you. Fuck you, I'll give it the one thumb. Okay, you know, I think, like, like I think because in some ways it will come and go yeah, you know like, even like the movie platoon like I was just thinking about it I was like is this?

Speaker 2 2:25:24

the platoon of of of g watt. I don't think, I don't think so. Could be, could be, but I don't think so. Um, because it's not on such an epic scale, the character development's not there, it's just a. This is a, this is a one shot. You know, this isn't a epic story, this is a snapshot, one shot, day in the life mission set, you know, and I'll recommend it to so many people to go see it and I'll recommend it to so many people to go see it. But I also like I don't know, yeah, I'll give it, I'll sacrifice and give it the one, because I think three is right where it should sit, you know.

Speaker 3 2:26:08

Yeah, and I mean I'm really, you know, I agree, Like a three out of four seems right to me.

Speaker 2 2:26:19

And I haven't seen a four thumb in like since I was a kid. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 2:26:21

Like the four thumber is uh, that's schindler's list, baby, right, this is. You know what I mean yeah, we're talking like these, these big old that's out big dogs yeah, um no, it was great and I really just don't have anything else I can do to do justice by it, like if you've listened to this whole podcast, you've seen the movie or you're stoked to go watch it, totally like pre you know, cocked ready to go off.

Speaker 3 2:26:53

But it was really good and I do, I really do think it's going to be one of those movies that I watch when I'm in my fifties or sixties and my kids are going to be like, yeah, that's that movie that. I think, gives me a pretty good insight to what that war was like. Yeah, but like I don't really have a attachment to it, like I, I see platoon. I love platoon. I love willem defoe's performance that I slow-mo fallen dying.

Speaker 3 2:27:23

It's hard to top that one the final line of that movie of. Sometimes I feel like a child torn between two parents. You know, it helps me really put in perspective the, the granular scare scale of the war as well as the macro um. At the same time I'm still like, okay, cool, that's what vietnam is like. Moving on to like wars I was alive for um and I feel like that's what this movie will be like. People will see it and be like that's what that was like, crazy dude. Moving on to wars I was alive for um, which is, you know, just the way it's gonna gonna be for the next generation, right? Um?

Speaker 3 2:28:08

All that said, big commendations to the cast and crew. Phenomenal movie um. And our beer. You know what? Even though we gave it a two-thumber down, pat, and I drank it all tonight, that's true, there's no beers left unopened at the table. So with that, you know, we just want to thank you all for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode. We hope you enjoyed Warfare and that, whether or not you pause this and came back to it after watching it or whatever, uh, to not spoil it for yourself, we really do hope that you enjoyed it. You enjoyed the amount of effort that went into the film. Um hope some of the trivia bits were of interest to you, uh, but most of all, we hope that you participated with us in this conversation and thanks for joining us again.

Speaker 2 2:29:01

Pat, you got anything Till next time?