Halloween 2025: The Weight Of A Soul

A spider-filled garage sets the tone, but the chill arrives when we revisit a body-cam moment from the Chris Watts case that feels impossibly exact. As a neighbor tries to pull up security footage, the app crashes into a National Geographic ad: a fetus in the womb, an eruption, a skull in oil. We walk through that nine-second cascade with clear eyes—no hype, no ghoulish delight—asking how coincidence, conscience, and pattern-seeking collide when a killer is cornered in his own head.

From there, we move room to room with the K9 team, weighing alleged giggles and whispered EVPs against echo, stress, and the way investigators’ faces change when they hear something they can’t place. We don’t chase every shadow; we slow down, replay, and consider the most ordinary explanations first. Still, we make space for how genuinely weird some moments are, and how grief-soaked places can prime both errors and insight. Along the way, we talk true crime ethics, why some creators get it right, and what responsible analysis looks like when real families and real loss are involved.

The conversation widens into faith and the supernatural without leaving reason behind. Why would the obvious reveal—an angel on camera, a demon in 4K—undercut free will? Why is evil usually subtle, dressed in plain clothes, and friendly at the bar? We swap stories about sensing “the weight” in certain places, discuss the thin veil idea, and return to a practical center: discernment. Hold wonder and logic together. Respect evidence. Refuse to feed on tragedy for thrills. And recognize that the scariest truths aren’t always the ones caught on tape.

If this episode sparked thought, share it with a friend, subscribe for more grounded deep dives, and leave a quick review to tell us where you land—fate, fluke, or something we don’t have words for yet.

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Transcript

Nausea At The Studio Door

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Dude, I actually This is a good thing to start the video on because you know, right now for some reason, I don't know what's going on, but I've been getting that like repulsed nausea feeling in my stomach every time I walk up to the front door of the studio. And I think it's because I just see that burnedness out of the corner of my eye.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

And uh you had a lot of experiences with that awning.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Yeah, yeah. Um and uh for people who don't know, I don't do spiders well. I don't do spiders well at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

You didn't respond to that text even. What text? Well you told me that that uh there was a big one outside, and I just said that I'd been growing it all summer.

Spider Gauntlet And Black Widows

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Oh, dude. Yeah, no, seriously, the I think that one you have outside, have you did you see it? She's girthy. I don't know what kind of spider that is, but it's huge. Its butt is massive. Probably an orb weaver. No, dude. It's too the orb weaver is the freaking like hard tacky one that we smacked over here coming down from the from the bird's nest. But, anyways, all right, so I'm gonna show you a couple pictures in a video. So I've been vacuuming out the garage pretty frequently because uh every few weeks the uh the webs are pretty nasty. And uh they were so nasty at one point that they were preventing my garage from shutting because they were catching light and blocking the laser. Okay. So I looked it up and they're like, yeah, be careful. Those are like those look like you know black widow webs. I was like, alright, let me let me be a man here and clean up the garage and make sure to vacuum all this up. But if I see a widow, I'll suck it up. Dude, black widow, literally the size of like a of like a silver dollar, you know, like a huge one, and I sucked it up, and I was like, alright, but now I'm serious about like I'm serious about like getting this spray down. Um so I was sucking it up again, but I go and there's this giant spider on the wheel of the vacuum cleaner. And this is like this is pretty macro, but like you can see its size compared to the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

And that wheel is like a you know, it's a it's uh bigger than a skateboard wheel. It's it's like a computer chair wheel on it. It's a big spider. Um, so I was like, I gotta move him or her off before I grab the vacuum. Because if I grab the shot, it's a shot vac. If I grab the shot vac and I'm wheeling around and it crawls up, I'll lose my shit. Yeah. So I I get a pull and I'm like, this thing doesn't look bad. You know, it's it's like probably a wolf spider or some kind. I looked it up, it's a grass spider. And so I grabbed it and I put it on a web outside. So I'm like, doesn't matter. Like it's probably big enough, it'll eat whatever this web belongs to. So then I'm grabbing the shot back and I'm vacuuming things up. Bro, dude, I'm looking at the video right now. Um I'm gonna hand it to you. You can play it. I come out after getting done vacuuming. Look at the size of this widow and then the size of the spider that it has now tangled up in the web. And this widow was the size of the shot vac wheel. Just tap the screen, it'll play, but oh, she's big and yeah. That isn't that isn't that unreal how big that spider is? She's fast. So I went back inside and grabbed the shot vac after recording this.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

After you uh after composing yourself.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Yeah. And I came out and she was gone.

unknown 4:48

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

So I told my neighbors, my neighbors grabbed this like spider spray that makes them come out of their like burrows.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

We sprayed it all along the side of the houses at the edge right there on the concrete. Uh-huh. And bro, not only did this widow come out, but three others. Oh man. And I dude, I stomped them all. I was, but I was like having actual like gag reflexes. Like while they popped under you. Oh, dude, they're still there. Like they're still there. Like they they were so big and full of so much goop that like they glued themselves in place. It was pretty gross. Um, if you're a spider lover out there, whatever, you're weird. Um no, I get it. They do function some stuff. And there are good spiders. They're spiders I let live. Like uh, I always re- I always relocate the jumping spiders. Any of the fuzzy spiders that have like the smiling face on their butt. Uh-huh. They got the big eyes. They can grow pretty big if if you let them. I always relocate them because they eat other spiders. Their venom, actually, this is a cool thing I learned from a book series. Their venom is at completely useless on every other single creature other than arachnids. Really? Their venom only affects arachnids. So jumpy spiders are great because they'll control your other spiders. But that's a lot of work where a jumpy spider control those widows. And um the big thing is like, I know widows really can't kill people. It's very hard for a black widow bite to actually even like most of the time doesn't even kill children or elderly. Elderly and children make up most people who die from widow bites, but even then it's still really rare. You have to have a have a pretty bad adverse reaction. What doesn't survive black widow bites often? Dogs.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Dogs survive snake bites all the time because their um their metabolism can handle that venom from a snake. But spider bites, some spider venom for some reason, is such a like coagulant on their blood that like it just gives them heart attacks, it gives them blood clots.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

And I bet you don't notice. Like lots of times, if you see your dog get bit by a snake, you like know. Yeah. So you go take care of them, but like a snake. Yeah, with a spider bite, you're just like, that could have happened hours ago. You never know if that happened.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Well, and dogs don't eat snakes. My dog eats bugs. Yeah. My dog loves to eat spiders and bugs and flies. So in our neighbors, too, our neighbors have two tiny, tiny dogs. And I'm just like, dude, I mean my neighbor, he was like, Yeah, I'm not gonna let like I'm not like I don't he's not afraid of spiders, but he's like, I'm not gonna risk them biting one of my dogs, my wife crying. Like, not gonna do that. So we just stomped them all, and now I'm getting the house sprayed down.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

So I think have I told you about the like the weird youth group guy with all the spiders. Ew. It was uh he's not that weird, just the spider thing was weird, but like it was kind of like he was like college age, living at home, and went to his house. I was like in freshman and high school or eighth grade or something. He had like floor to ceiling, wall-to-wall terrariums full of spiders. Of all of all spiders. It looked like a like a pet smart wall. That's the guy of spiders.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

That's the guy from like those B movie horror films. Yes. That like he accidentally knocks one over because he's like trusting one too much and it bites him. And then they all break in shatter, and then they all breed into like a super spider genus, and then like the town gets overrun by super spiders.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Yeah, and it was in his bedroom.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

I just gushed and he had all sorts of them.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

He had poisonous ones, whatever. Bird spider, a big old, I think it's called a bird spider. Sounds like it's giant. You can eat a bird.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Yeah, the bird tarantula.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

See, those also don't bother me. But I don't want to sleep next to it. Yeah, that's true. I would have lose my shit if like it was crawling on me in the middle of the night. I'd probably I probably need psychiatric help.

October, Fear, And True Crime Ethics

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Like, I think I wouldn't be so unnerved, dude. It's like in uh in Home Alone, the scene with the spider on the guy's face that starts crawling. They that was just for real, pure terror. They told him it was gonna be fake. Did they? They told him it was gonna be fake, and they dropped the real one on him, and he just You're lying. No, that's it's like a behind the scenes thing, yeah. And he just uh it crawls, you know, across his face like that, and he's just screaming and yeah.

Chris Watts Case Context

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Uh-uh. Oh yeah. Um anyways, it's October. It is. It's uh and by the time this releases, it'll probably be mid-October, maybe even close to Halloween, but it's our uh it's the unsettling season, you know. It's the season to be kind of spooked out a little bit. And um, you know, I I think there's a very fine line in uh and I we talk about this, I feel like every year when we like go over like a murder thing and and around Halloween. There's a very fine line, I think, between like the glorification of these crimes and then like the actual like criminal psychology analysis or uh body cam analysis, right? Things like that. Um and you know, sometimes I rag on true crime podcasts and stuff like that because it really feels like they're really glorifying what you know someone did, and it might encourage other psychotic people to do something similar, right? I don't hold those crime podcasts responsible like for other people's actions. But again, it's just like one of those things like you should there's a fine line to walk between like uh you know capitalizing on someone else's suffering and a criminal versus like providing a true valuable um educational analysis. And I say that too because I watched a ton of them when I was, you know, uh chair deputy as well, just to like break down, you know, body cam footage and like what officers should have done or what detectives you know looked for and things like that. And uh I think this one is honestly the first one, and I don't I guess I don't go watching these often, but this is the first one that is a uh like paranormal like observation of a uh a body cam footage that I've seen that I felt like wasn't just like top five ghosts caught on body cam. You know, uh and so this is by um a YouTuber of the name of uh let me let me check it one more time, uh Bob Gimlin. Now, and I'm giving credit because I think Bob does an exquisite, exquisite job here of not feeding into uh uh or not capitalizing in like he murdered his wife and kids, and now their ghosts haunt the place. Like it's very analytical, and even he says he's like, I really don't believe in any paranormal stuff, but I cannot deny some very strange, surreal stuff that happened that was caught on camera that in hindsight is like you know, it makes you want to rub your head and like pull your hair out and just be like, what is that? That is crazy. Um, it was very chilling when I watched it, and I thought he did such a good job that I wanted to share it with you. And I would figured I was like, well, why not just kind of share it with whoever is listening? Yeah, um, because most of the content in this is things that the uh actual investigators of the of the home recorded on body cam and the audio picked up, and you can tell it's not just a glitch in the audio because the investigators get unsettled when they hear these things. And you can see in their body language, they're actually really disturbed by some of the stuff they're hearing in the house. And I also think it's kind of relevant to you and I because this was something like that happened in our state in Colorado, and um it was it was a pretty big case. Um and it went on for it didn't go on for years, like he he was sent pretty quick. Um, but this is this is a the case of Chris Watts, and uh there'll be some background here uh provided in the video. Um, but essentially Chris Watts I'm not entirely familiar on like what ended up being his like plea and why he said he did it. I know there's documentaries out there that have claimed like it was because his mistress that he was having an affair with told him he should like do it so they can start over. And then there's been like other stuff that he said, apparently, which again, this is where I kind of get like, eh, I don't know if I really approve of this. But like people who were writing books about the case, reaching out to him, he's writing to them from prison, saying, like, yeah, it was like demonic stuff. Yeah, like I didn't really have I didn't know what I was doing, I wasn't in control of myself, and it's like from what I know, none of that was in the trial as like case evidence or anything like that, of like, you know, an insanity plea, right? But like it seems like he's leaning into that now, possibly for an excuse or justification, as well as maybe for some celebrity around his own actions. So all that said, I don't know if I I I kind of denounce that stuff, but this doesn't even really dwell on that. Like this guy, um Bob makes like some of the mentions of like things Chris has written to people and what's been in some of those documentaries, but he certainly doesn't like overall endorse it, which I is why I kind of appreciated it. He just kind of uses it as a basis to like support some of the weird things that happened in the body cam footage. So all that said, we'll we'll get started. Um again, Bob Gimlin, check him out on YouTube. He's got great stuff. He's a growing YouTube channel. I mean, he's got more subscribers than us, but uh, if you uh kind of like what he's doing here, he does some other kind of things. Like he has a couple Bigfoot videos that again I think were really grounded. I don't think he believes in Bigfoot. Maybe he does. Maybe he said, I believe in Bigfoot, and I just missed it in the video. But like, it's one of those things like he takes a very skeptic approach and just kind of lets footage and audio play out, and then he kind of tries to analyze it.

The Neighbor’s Video And The TV Glitch

SPEAKER_01 16:00

But here we go. Before getting into the meat of this video, some context is required. Family Annihilator Chris Watts murdered his pregnant wife and then put her body into the bed of his truck as his two daughters, Bella and Cece, watched. He then situated Bella and Cece into the backseat and drove them to a remote stretch of desert that he was familiar with due to his employment with Anadarko Petroleum. He unloaded his deceased wife as his daughters remained in the cab. Shannan's body would not fit through the small opening to the oil tank, so Chris dug a shallow grave, and Bella and Cece watched their father bury their mother and unborn brother who is to be named Nico Lee. So Norman smothered Cece with the blanket in the backseat. Bella was right beside her, and she didn't really know what was going on. Family Annihilator Chris Watts then shoved Cece's body into the oil tank, and then he returned to the truck, where Bella asked if he was going to do the same thing to her as he had just done to Cece, and he didn't answer her, he just did it.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

First and foremost, very unsettling. How do we know this? From what I understand, this is part of what was in trial. Like part of his confession is like I had buried her after I was done burying her, I went, smothered my daughter after I put her in the oil tank. I smothered my other daughter, put her in. And I didn't say anything to him the whole time. And it's just like, okay. The reason that's important is because of certain things that happen on regarding like the oil tanks and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

After disposing of his family, Chris went to work, but his wife Shannon was supposed to be driven to a doctor's appointment by her neighbor Nicole Atkinson. When Nicole couldn't get a hold of Shannon, she called Chris Watts. Not satisfied with his response. Nicole called the police for a welfare check. Once the police called Chris, he was suddenly but not concerned enough to allow the responding officer access to his house without being there himself, which likely would have been a red flag, considering that his pregnant wife already had health concerns, had missed an appointment, and could not be reached. When he finally arrived home, he conspicuously entered through the garage, leaving Nicole and the police officer to wait for nearly two minutes before he opened the front door. After searching the Watts house and discovering Shannon's medication and cell phone, Nicole Atkinson invited Watts and the responding officer to the home she shared with Nathan Trinistich to watch their security footage, which, unbeknownst to Chris, had a view of his driveway.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

So Chris, you know, people who are listening and not watching the the footage right now. Chris is um now at his neighbor's house. Because his house is empty. He's saying he doesn't know where his wife and daughters are, and that's kind of the alibi he's following, right? But then his wife is like, well, we have a we have a security cam. Maybe we can see them leaving if they if they left or who they went with. So Chris, now trying to like not look suspicious, is like, oh yeah, let's go check that out. And he's here and he sees for the first time, he's like, oh my gosh. This security camera from my neighbor's house is looking right at my pickup truck in the driveway. Um, as I backed it up and essentially loaded up my wife and kids.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

And his yeah, his body language showing it by the way. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Based on Chris's body language while watching the footage, it is safe to assume that he thought it was over then and there, seeing as he knew that he'd been recorded loading his family into his truck as if they were produce. And had this been noticed, he certainly would have been arrested. However, Chris had kept to the side of the truck opposite to the camera. What was obvious to him was not obvious to the observers, and despite his anxieties, the footage appears innocuous to those without the gift of hindsight. Ironically, it was Chris's response to the footage that was almost as damning as had it showed what he feared it did. Strange to think that Nicole Atkinson and Nathan Trinistic are likely already aware that the man in their living room just murdered the entirety of his family. Okay, that was all context. However, this video is not about the crimes of Chris Watts, nor is it about his catastrophically deficient attempt to conceal them, for that is the realm of true crime, which this channel is not, and Chris Watts content is cornucopian in magnitude. This video is about the alleged paranormal events related to the Watts murders, and even the most strict skeptic must concede that chance alone seems insufficient in describing some of the aberrations that occur here, the first of which occurs immediately where I left off. You're about to see, in my opinion, one of the most incredible moments ever caught on body cam. It is so awe-inspiring and magnificent that no genre exists to adequately classify it.

K9 Search And Unsettling Audio

SPEAKER_03 22:20

So again, they're watching the video. It's at a different time of day when the recording the footage. This is likely they're just still like, okay, well, let's see if they left this morning at some time. The uh neighbor, he is trying to get the camera footage to play back and work, and it disconnects. And as it disconnects, the TV just goes back to what was playing previously, and it's currently a commercial for the natural geographic channel.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Nothing for the rest of the long.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

The app that Nathan Trinistic is using to show his security footage crashes, and up comes a commercial for a National Geographic program. And you can see how badly Chris wants to get out of there, but the sight of a fetus in the womb reclaims his attention. He killed one of those approximately six hours prior to this moment. The depiction of the unborn proves so unsettling and surreal to Watts that it prompts him to make a guilty utterance.

unknown 23:39

She's pregnant as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

She's pregnant as well. Once satisfied that it had coerced an admission out of him, Fate moved on to show a small festering flame that abruptly explodes into a mushroom cloud of fire and devastation, perhaps summarizing what he had just done to his life. The television then goes on to show a masked face, rising from a pool of petroleum, only to disintegrate into a skull bathed in crude oil. And it's at this point that he actually turns his back to the TV. He literally faces as opposite to the screen as he can without making direct eye contact with the cop, and he will stay there until the second the commercial ends.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Dude, that was wild. So he he not only has killed his wife and two born children, but his wife was pregnant with what would have been their son. And so when the camera security camera footage cuts out, it immediately somehow goes into a commercial showing this uh generated image of a fetus in the womb that then is somehow going into like an explosion from the ground, which then turns into this skull rising out of crude oil and being pulled down. That is mind-boggling to me. It's wild. How how can the things line up? Like, if that's not a pre-recorded program, and of course no one knows what he's done yet, so there's no way anyone here has a like the ability to like set that up to be the thing playing in the background. You know, it's just insane like coincidence, but like, you know, if you lean into it, you're like, dude, this is this might be Providence, dude. This might be like borderline, like spiritual stuff going on to like convict this dude and like press upon him what he's done and like essentially unsettle him to the point where they can get a confession out of him.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah. And maybe there was low volume that Chris heard to indicate that the commercial ended, but he does not face the TV again until it's over. Put yourself into the shoes of this despicable monster. You have just murdered your wife and unborn son before doing the same to your daughters aged three and four, and then shoved them into an oil silo, the opening of which was too small for them to fit comfortably. But you were unaware that your wife had a doctor's appointment. The time you had allotted to come up with a story and clean up is gone, and a mere six or seven hours after doing the abominable deed, with zero hours of sleep, you find yourself watching a police officer who is watching footage of you load your family into your truck as if they're bags of junk bound for goodwill. Then the app crashes, offering a brief respite from the terror you've put yourself in. Except there's no respite at all, because it's showing your deed in a far more dramatic way. A fetus and a human skull disintegrating into a pit of petrol. Objectively speaking, of course, this is just a coincidence. But how do I phrase this? I feel like if I looked through TV programming for a hundred years straight, I would not have been able to find a more perfect and fitting 9.7 seconds of footage to show Chris Watts at that exact moment in time than Nathan Trinistach's TV did due to a glitch. I'm not saying this came from beyond the grave or from above the clouds, but damn, I'm hard-pressed to think of a greater or better timed act of coincidence.

Debunking Mirrors And EVP Skepticism

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Okay, moving on. So I'm gonna I'm gonna skip forward a little bit to uh some things that are uh later on in the video where um the investigators went out the house with a dog, and I don't know if the dog's looking for like weapons or drugs or the descent of to like try to find the like children and the wife, because I think at this point they still believe that they're missing, they don't know they're actually uh been murdered. But um the time frame here uh is 646 in the video where uh the investigators are now in and you start you're gonna start hearing things. Um and I genuinely think like this is some of the most unsettling stuff because at first I heard it and I was like, oh, that's just a glitch sound, or the sound of like objects being moved in the house. Like you can't really see like what the officer's feet are kicking, what the dog's knocking over with its tail or whatever, right? But then the investigators respond to it, and their reaction is very unsettled.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Now, you probably didn't see it, and I'll be honest, I don't really see it either. But many viewers claim to see what looks like a child looking through the balusters. I see something, but I don't know. Considering the context of the situation and the nature of this video, I think that would be Romano. If there is literally anything to the archaic phenomena known as ghosts, a notion that very well may predate humanity itself, then this place is certainly a premium candidate to host them. And this assertion is supported when the crew searches Shannon's walk-in closet. And I'll have you know that I tried my absolute best to reduce the ambient noise and amplify the subject without losing quality.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

That was it.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Did you hear that?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Let's watch the rest.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

I heard it. Did you hear it? I did. It did.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

So again, for people who are just listening, they're at the walk-in closet, uh, and the investigator holding the canine barely steps foot into the closet when there's this distinct childlike giggle sound. And you immediately see her head turn and pitch to like the direction of the sound, and it's all just shoes on the shoe rack. And it's so much so that she steps out of it and won't go in the closet. And I think for the rest of the footage, she doesn't go in. It freaked her out. It freaked her out so much, and the other detective is just confirming, like, yep, I heard that too. I think, yeah, it did sound like a kid giggling.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Oh, he did just go straight in there.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

It sounds like the elder of the two women is legitimately unsettled, so much so that she will not re-enter the room. Now, I can't find out much about this woman, and I don't really want to, because I don't want to invade her privacy. But you'd think it would be difficult to rattle a career canine handler. It's safe to assume that she has dealt with some awful situations and equally awful sights.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

I'm gonna skip forward a little bit because now he's just analyzing their voices and like how verbally they seem kind of shook and stuff. Um there's another one here when they're um downstairs. And I know he boosts the audio for it. Um let me go back.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Um by the way, we're gonna throw this up on YouTube so if you want to follow along and see what we're seeing, you can see kind of this video as we're breaking it down, and you can see everything that Mick's throwing up as we're talking about it. But man, the that little chuckle that that that did look like a girl in the or like a ghostly girl in the banister. There's also the there's a second set of lines back behind it, you know, it can make that shadow.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

But it it does look like someone going up the stairs, but then it's like it could just be like, well, that's just the way the camera is like the body cam footage isn't high quality.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

So it really could just be the shadow of the um the railing behind it.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

The railing behind it and the curtains behind it, yeah, all passing through.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Um, but here, there's this one too. So this is at the 10 minute mark when there's this other sound while. While they're looking around in the uh the downstairs. Uh, not the downstairs, but like the main level.

Texts, Lights, And The Shadowy Woman

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Alleged EVPs. And I'll play many of them. But I'm mentioning this first one explicitly to debunk it, which I very rarely do. But there's been a bunch of buzz about it, and I don't think it's anything whatsoever. So when they're in the foyer, there's an EVP. And I hate that I know this from all the research I've been doing on this terrible case. But it doesn't even sound like Shinan. And then it said that you can see Shinan in the mirror. And I don't think this is so. See how the figure backs off with the camera? I think it's likely this was just one of the many people in the house making a noise. As you can see, the room is quite lofty, ironically, because there's no loft, but it's echoey, no doubt. And then the person wearing the body captured herself on camera. Is it spooky looking? Absolutely. But spooky looking does not paranormal make. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Yeah, so that one I wanted to specify too, just because I'm like, it gives credit that, you know, Bob isn't just trying to psych us up. And he's not trying to like use everything possible. Like, he's using logic and reason to deduce, like, because that's the exact same conclusion I come to. And I think that like sound of the woman kind of gasping is the canine handler. Saying no to the dog or something. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Now that I got that one out of the way, numerous other examples of EVP were said to have been captured. And real or not, they are creepy as all hell, and even rather heartbreaking. I won't be spending much time on them. I could likely make a whole 40-minute video just on these EVPs, but this is by no means a testable or constant setting. So I'm just going to play each one several times, a few times without the alleged meaning, and then a few times with.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Let me see if I can get this up a little bit louder, even because it is uh um so quiet, but it does sound like a child like muffled same mom.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

I can boost it up in our ears too.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

I'm gonna turn down I'm gonna turn down our background synthways a little bit just so that way it's a little bit quieter. All right, so here it is.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

And then a few times with the I don't care how rational or empirical you are, this next one is pretty appealing.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Any guesses? Do you have a guess? Is it the sound or I I don't know, I can't tell.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

It sounds like uh at first I was like, I don't I don't think so. Like, I don't think it's anything, it's a lady. Then he puts the text to it, and then I can't not hear what the text is saying. I move easy.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Once you see the text with it, you can't unhear it.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

It's just like it's totally it could be totally just a brain thing, right? With like once the text is on the screen, you're like, oh, that does sound like uh uh a very whispered, hushed voice saying, I'm with CC. It's super unsettling. And it could be, again, just I think it Occam's razor. What's the most reasonable thing? The investigator wearing the body camp is muttering something under her breath. I don't think she's saying, I'm with CC. I think she's just muttering like, uh, what what do I see? Maybe something like that, but it's still again like hard to hard to describe, like hard to explain a little bit, you know, in the surrounding of everything else. And that when the text says this is our home. And I'm like, again, this sounds to me more like they're whispering something hushed on their breath while looking and investigating. Um maybe the investigator's saying, like, what's going on in this home? And like again, like when you're saying that stuff to yourself, investigating things, looking for clues, you do a lot of self-therapy to try to keep your brain from being distracted by things that aren't important and only assessing like what is a value at the scene. And so here, I think it could easily be the investigator saying something along those lines. And just the last little bit is vocalized, right? Just the way when you're like working on something and you're not entirely aware you might be speaking out loud, you know, you're looking for something in the garage and you're looking for the ruler, or you're looking for your T square. You're like, where's that T-square? But really what you say out loud under your breath is uh T square. You know what I mean? And it's like I don't want to again, I want to use Occam's razor, right? But it is super unsettling to me.

Apparitions Or Angles Of Light

SPEAKER_01 38:04

To be honest, these were more otherworldly than I was expecting. But I'm a person who talks to myself, especially when I'm working, and especially, especially when I'm working with my animal, which of course is precisely what the searchers were doing. So no matter how authentically ethereal these captures may sound, there is no pragmatic reason to suspect that they are anything other than the searchers' murmurings. But the high strangeness here is not confined to cryptic camera captures of audio and visual. On September 21st, 2018, 39 days after the annihilation and 37 days after Chris Watts' cringy confession and most deserved arrest, Fredericksburg police receive a call from Shenan's mother, who said she received a text from an unknown number. The text, weirdly enough, said that the back door to her deceased daughter's home was open. And weirdly enough again, whoever texted her that wouldn't respond. Now, body cam footage of this was not released, but police went to the house in the light of day, and they found the back storm door open, but the actual door that admits entry was locked. Stranger yet, it's mentioned in the Weld County DA office's discovery documents that the lights in the garage were not on when police arrived, but turned on at some point while they were checking the perimeter. On this occasion, the police didn't enter the house or attached garage, claiming they had no reason to suspect anyone was inside, which is odd considering that they saw a light turn on while they were literally there, but maybe it was motion activated, and the person who texted Shannan's mother with that condescending tidbit was never identified. And seriously, what is up with that? Sandra Ruchek had just lost her daughter and three grandchildren a month ago, and someone wants to tell her that the storm door is open on the house, which, by the way, is not something anyone should know unless they're up to no good. Anyhow, that wasn't the end of the strangeness on September 21st, for police would return that night. See, Nathaniel Trinistic called Chennan's father to tell him that his security footage captured video of a shadowy woman entering the Watts residence at 9 a.m. and never leaving. I want to mention this because so many channels here on YouTube get this wrong. They say that Nate saw or recorded the woman enter the house that night, but I read the discovery documents, and that's not what happened. Nate didn't get a chance to look at his security footage until that night. The footage of the woman entering the house is from around 9 a.m., and that security cam footage was never released. Also noted was that a black SUV slowly passed the house several times throughout the day, but never stopped, and no one was ever seen entering or exiting the vehicle. So it's unknown if it's related to the shadowy woman, the woman with dark hair. So many questions. So many questions. Why text someone that a storm door is open?

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Some people So I'm gonna skip ahead again a little bit more, but just for context, too, shadowy woman with dark hair. I mean it's at nighttime. Everyone looks shadowed at nighttime. But Chris Watts' mistress had long black hair. And so a lot of people think it's her going there to try to make sure like there's nothing to tie her to anything. Kind of wondering too, like, though it's pretty late to be doing that in the like actual case, right? Because like this is well over thirty days after Chris has been arrested and charged. Um, but uh the police get called again to go and investigate the home. Uh and here, yeah, so at 1545, he has a photo of Nicole Kessinger who was uh the mistress. Um and there's a question of, you know, who was it that went in and the police respond to go make sure no one's in the home, right? Because the home still technically is a crime scene. Um and I believe at this point it wasn't uh listed for sale again yet. It was so it would still be like part of the investigation. Um so at 1615, we're resuming here.

Faith, Ghosts, And The Thin Veil

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Um the police, and he gave the police the house's access code, seeing as now they had strong reason to suggest that someone had entered the house. They went inside, whereas that morning they had merely made sure the area was secure. Yet another anomaly is that the police triggered the house's security system and the garage. Yet Shannan's father, who was the last person in the house, was quite certain that he did not engage the security system when he was there last. And I don't blame him. Nothing there was worth protecting anymore. But that begs the question what kind of intruder would activate the security system? When the police arrived, the garage lights were on. Ostensibly, they'd been on ever since they turned on the last time the police were there. To me, this rules out some kind of motion sensing device. If they turn on by motion, then they turn off automatically. So who turns lights on in a house they weren't supposed to be in, as police were actively searching the perimeter? And if someone was in the house who wasn't supposed to be, why would they text Shenan's mother to tell her that they could get in? Who would anonymously text a grieving mother to tell her that her deceased daughter's storm door is open, and then not respond to further follow-up? Did whoever it was mean that the back door was open, and then he or she locked it themselves? And who was the shadowy woman captured entering the house? And how, and why, was she never captured leaving? Well, these are only a few reasons that may explain why the five police officers are a bit jumpy as they make entry at 11 p.m. on Friday, September 21st, 2018.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Also they I w when I was watching this, I was like, damn, like not a great example of how to make entry into a home that like you're trying to secure and make sure there's no like trespassers. You should at least have one officer, if not two officers, going around back to that storm door. And one post it up just outside to make sure no one dips out of you and goes out the front door. But they all go, all five of them are just going in through the front door. I'm like, dude, that's not smart. Like, talk about funnel of death if someone meant harm.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Yeah, it's scary. It's scary, so they're packing in and it's like, bro, this is scary. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

Which you know, to you to your point, too, Pat, like it's this is one of those things that is like we really don't see in the real world. It is not often we see police uh supernaturally like fearful. Right? Like this is the these are officers who are spooked. These are not officers who are afraid because they're in danger and they might in like they might encounter a very violent, dangerous individual. Right? They're like, this is spooky.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

You can tell these guys look, yeah, they it looks like yeah, they're they're all hiding behind each other.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Yeah. Like they're in the peeking out over each other's shoulder.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

And I I bet they don't look like that with a bad guy. Yeah. Like these sp these specific guys, I bet they don't look like that with a bad guy, but they're they're creeped out.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Yeah. And my first thought was, Are you joking? But the more you look at it, it's kind of hard to make sense of. And I'll scrub the whole little sequence. There are five officers in the house at the time, and I believe four of them are upstairs, and this very well could simply be one of them standing behind the one we can see clearly. But it does at least appear childlike in stature, and it almost seems to be wearing a dress of some kind. This is not the kind of thing I'd bet money on, but given the gravity of the situation. I think it's interesting. All the popular ghost footage breakdown channels showed this right here as the apparition at the stairs. If I had to say there was an apparition at all, I'd probably pick this. About thirty seconds later. Again, it very well could be just another officer or a shadow. But it doesn't look good. Not one little bit. This is not at all what you want to see in your house. Whispering filth to your husband.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Yeah. Obvious. Well, it's and it's one of those things like to me, I I I get what he's saying. I still think it's just one of the officers upstairs.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Like, I think it's just an officer further upstairs that is like Or a shadow from the other room, the shadow of the officer on the back wall. And that's why, because it kind of comes in and out and disappears. If there's a guy standing around the corner and there's a light on, it'd be shining on that back hallway and popping in and out. Yeah. Well still may I still have my my neck stand hairs are standing up right now, though. It's creepy.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

And I actually disagree with what you just said though, because we see the officer on the stairs shadow. He's backlit from the the the shadows drop lighting, right? So really the shadows would be that soft. And so we wouldn't have a shadow darker than that against the wall upstairs, where you have that overhead light. The overhead light would be washing it out onto the floor, and it'd be like as soft as the officers on the stairs. So I think it's another officer. But I I think lighting-wise, you could say like it's not a shadow. So I it it's it's pretty sus.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Obviously, I'm not a policeman, but I have watched a ridiculous amount of body cam footage, and these officers seem far more on edge than officers in far more hairy situations than this. And I don't mean that as an insult.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Yeah, dude, they're all.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

The figures at the top of the stairs, and this, what at least looks like a semi translucent pillar of something across the chair to the right. They're strange, but surely not as strange as a shadowy woman recorded entering the house and never leaving. The five bedroom and four bathroom house was taken by the bank in twenty eighteen, and then sold to the Millers in twenty twenty two for six hundred K, which was sixty K below asking price. The Millers have two little girls, and their youngest is a little boy. The new buyers were criticized by Internet Voices for evidently mirroring the Watts family.

Evil’s Subtlety And Human Monsters

SPEAKER_03 48:38

So I think after that it's now all just kind of conversation about the drama around uh what the next family experienced. Uh they only lived in the house for like a year. And they had several calls uh to uh the police department for domestic violence. So it's kind of like one of those things of like very uh Amityville horror-esque almost of like the next family to move in, kind of suffering from the same things. Um and then they moved out, sold the house. Um But it is it is a very um unsettling story, and I think uh, you know, the really main thing that like really unsettled me um was the uh actual commercial. Like that commercial still unsettles me. Like I still believe that has to be the most unsettling part of the whole thing. Um, because again, you're talking about like what are the odds that such an accurate commercial would uh pop up right in the moment there. You know what I mean? And you can see how it just immediately crawls under the skin of Chris Watts uh and disturbs him. So, anyways, that was that's what I really want to share with you and show you that. And like, you know, share with others to take out and take a look into because it's one of those things that I, you know, believing in a higher power, right? Personally believe like I do believe there are things that happen that are not necessarily uh God intervening in a way that um disposes of an individual's free will, but there are certain things that I believe happen for sure that are borderline divine intervention that are wholly tied to what I call conviction and like primarily conviction of the Holy Spirit, conviction of right or wrong. And I think like when I see stuff like that, I'm like, dude, that is like conviction manifest to like convict someone who has done this heinous, awful thing and and keep them from being able to lie and disguise you know the the lies around this situation. Um but all that said, I was thinking about too, and I was like, you know, I don't really know Pat's point of view on stuff. Like, I don't know your perspective on ghosts and spirits and things like that. Um, and I'm very interested to hear uh what that like what that is.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Yeah, I mean I think I believe in the supernatural. Well, of course, for sure, right? Yeah, so that means like I was talking with someone the other day about this where because especially with like with Christians, you lots of Christians would say, Do you believe in aliens? You're like, absolutely not, it's not people who believe in aliens. Okay Well then what's an angel? Sure. What's a demon? Those are aliens by by definition, like they're other worlds, they're not from here, right? So then you do believe in aliens. Of some maybe not the green men, but you you do. So it's like just by default, you have to accept that you are open to like other things, and so like ghosts, things like when it comes to ghosts.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Um I'll say this.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

I do have a devil's advocacy argument already prepared for just whatever I say, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Like, because I've thought about it enough to think about like what I would counter with on either side of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

I mean, you have even in the Bible, you have where there's oh uh uh where Saul goes and uh to like a necromancer type thing and and uh summons Samuel? Yeah, and speaks with him, right? Things like that.

SPEAKER_03 52:59

So you have to like legit summons Samuel, and Samuel does like the classic, like Saul, why have you disturbed me?

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Yeah, exactly. And so it's like in a sense, yes, I believe in ghosts, but maybe not in the traditional, or maybe not in the sense of like the the the like ghostbusters, or like you know, or the like maybe they're not like uh ghost hunters, yeah. They're not like trapped here on earth wandering. Right. And so you have it yeah, so you have so many um you have so many stories over history of time, you know, people saying I was sitting there in the cereal box, not only dumped over, it lifted up and then dumped over. Like that sort of thing. Yeah, you know, and you're like, well, Uncle Ricky, how was your medication doing that day? You know, it it typically seems to follow in general, people have other things going on with them, which the other argument would be, well, then certain people like that are more opened up to like the spiritual realm, things around them, they're more sensitive to those things. Um, I believe in demonic possession. Um, you know, so I think that but when it comes to you know the the girl in a dress shadowy walking by, I don't know. I don't have a good answer.

Witchcraft, Warnings, And Ouija Lines

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Yeah, yeah. I I think you actually used the exact devil's advocate argument. I was gonna use for you said you didn't believe in ghosts. I was gonna be like, oh, you know, biblically speaking, we we know of one ghost. Um but uh holy ghost. Well, I was gonna say Samuel, yeah, but yeah. Um no, yeah, I I totally think like I I agree as well. Um there is though the uh there is some verses that I remember reading, and again, I'm not trying to make the biblical case for like you know certain supernatural phenomena, but there are certain verses that I've seen used as like why someone who has died, which if you're a Christian, and you know, I'm not gonna get into the different uh sects of Christianity, but predominantly it's that hey, when you die, you close your eyes here, you open your eyes somewhere else. Right. You're either in heaven or you're not. And with that, um, there are still though verses alluding to things that aren't angels and like known as like it just really reference to spirits. And I do think that there is reason to believe that um the supernatural part of a human, uh, the soul, I think it has weight, and I think there's things that uh can remain. And one example I used for this that I think is like no one really argues, is uh Ground Zero from 9-11. Um, did you ever get to go to Ground Zero or anything like before it was built into memorial?

SPEAKER_00 56:13

I went there when I was 13. They were working on the memorial then.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

Yeah, okay. Do you remember anything like distinct about that? Like, was there anything that like stuck in your mind about that experience? Because I I had a very I went when I was in like fifth grade and it was one of the most memorable experiences I've ever had. But I'm curious to hear from you if there's anything that you specifically feel like stood out.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

I'm trying to remember because it was a I was a I was 13, I was on an art trip. Nice and I was my ass had been whipped by just art, bad art for days on end. Yeah. So this part of the trip, you know, nothing really stood out to me. I remember it's like that's a big old hole in the ground they're working on when they had it all. It was a huge hole. It's crazy how deep that was. I just was like, that's a big old hole.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

You know, was it still fenced off?

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Um, it was not fenced off then.

Closing Thoughts And Creator Credit

SPEAKER_03 57:05

Gotcha, okay. When I went, it was all fenced off. And there was a temporary slab with the names of everyone who had died. And uh man, I kid you, nah, it felt like I was in New York one moment, and then when I crossed the street and stood there on the sidewalk, there was this guy talking. He wasn't a street preacher, he was, I think, a family member of pe of someone who had died, or multiple people who had died during 9-11. And he was talking with so much emotional conviction about how this slab didn't include the people who weren't just in the towers, but like it it didn't include like just everyday folk who who died that day trying to help people and stuff like that. And he was he's like, This slab will only tell you 3,000 some names, but there's another 2,000 that were murdered that day because of the evil acts that occurred, and it was silent. And I mean, he it was easily several dozen group like people on that side just around him listening as he spoke about like all these different events and other things that happened and um the other damage of the city that occurred. And I've heard from more people who have been to New York several times since then about the the spiritual impact of being there and like feeling like you're on hollowed ground. And uh there's a there's a really weird thing that was studying, um, if I remember correctly, it was it was monitoring the electronic uh wavelengths in the atmosphere during and it's just always doing that, it's always monitoring, uh, and it's just part of a uh like a program for NASA or something like that. But when the towers fell, there was an insane disruption on like a ton of the wavelengths, and it like actually rippled across the globe, and it was and like that wavelength is often uh referenced as like the wavelength from the human mind, and like just literally legitimately, like not a spiritual thing, but just like electronically, your brain produces radio signals, and a lot of those signals exist outside of your brain as well, but this one they're like, This is as if humankind rippled across the world feeling this travesty. And part of me's like, okay, how can you explain something like that without assigning a gravity, a weight, pulling on that wavelength, you know, that people were there and they were gone in an instant, gone in a moment. Soul vacuum. Exactly, right? And so I think like when you look at things like that, I believe that yes, when you die, your soul leaves this earth, it's not stuck on this earth, but I do believe that there can be vacuous things that remain. Like, you know, you can look at the other ones too, where the guy, he like I know a lot of people say this, like scientific papers debunked, but there was a scientist who tried to measure everyone when they died, like the difference between like being alive and moments after death and their body weight. And you know, it says like the the soul waves the soul weighs seven ounces. And like there's a lot of jokes around it. It's like, well, no, that's just people farting.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

And it's like, ha ha, yeah, yeah. But like he documented it pretty consistently, and it was like over a thousand bodies, and it was sadly at a time when it was very easy to monitor people while they're dying. Right. Because it was during, like, I think if I remember right, it was during like the height of tuberculosis. So there was no shortage of people that you could just go to and sit by them for 10 minutes before they died, and then walk down the hall to the next one. Um, but I think all that said helps me frame things like this. Like, there are echoes of a soul, there are echoes of that energy. And if you don't believe that, I would then, you know, question someone of like, well, then how can you believe like certain other things that aren't manifest, physical, that you can touch and put your hands on, uh, that seem to have weight and affect the like circumstances around it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

Yeah, it's kind of like you know when someone's in the room with you. Or like, like, like those sort of those things like the the or even like when something's in the bushes. Yeah. You just know you know when it's only in the bushes. There's something over there. Like, and like what is that thing, right? And it's like, and like, no, not yeah, if something rustles in the bushes, yeah, but like just like but sometimes you just know, like one time I was actually at uh uh summer camp for middle schoolers. I was a leader, and um it was the night of basically it's the kind of a big night where you you know lots of kids are asked to you know follow Jesus and they're sent out for like a time of silence and Just all the lights are off in camp, uh, and the kids are sitting out to be by themselves and just sit and they've been presented the gospel and this free gift and relationship with Christ. And the kids go out in the camp and they sit for 20 minutes of silence. And um there's always incredible stories that come out of that, like of you know, of kids and maybe hearing God for the first time or certain things, but also at the same time, like this one night this happened, it's a 20 minutes of silence, and there's like just a lightning storm going off in the like around the camp. Not in far enough, it's not dangerous, and you need to call kids in. It's more and it's more of like an electrical storm up in the up in the clouds. And like I went and sat on the edge of camp, and the I was looking off into the trees, and I just felt the darkness out there. I could feel there was something out there that did not like what we were doing in this place. And I after 20 minutes is up, we walked back to uh to our cabin, and a couple other of the guys, the leaders, like we get there and they're like, Hey, let's circle up for a second. And you can tell like everybody kind of all he called the dudes want to circle up for a second before we went and saw the kids, and like one guy was like, Did you yeah, like I had this feeling, man? Like I and they were we were all in different places, but it was like a do you guys feel that? And it was like it was like I I do feel that. It was like like we need to pray right now for this. Like, so we like we we prayed for a while, but like in this moment, whatever it was, like, and you you could chalk it up to sleep deprivation with middle schoolers and uh and a week of uh intense emotional highs and lows, but just uh I this wasn't our first rodeo at the 20 Minutes of Silence. We'd done this many times with kids, and just when we came in and we circled up, it was just like the evil's out there, like you could feel it, and it was just it was just like and it was confirmed by like the way other people were feeling, and just this we can't explain it, can't explain it with we can't reason it to somebody else, you know, but it just was like something in us new, and then and I think very similarly to you know this this thing we're talking about, which is you know what is going on in our flesh and bones that's it's not our flesh and bones, you know, there's there's more to it, more to it, and that thing in us that can sense or feel other things. Um and I think that, you know, I do think that to answer your question about ghosts, yeah, I like I I believe people are seeing certain things. I don't know the you know the modern mythology or what what it's come to be now of, you know, wandering soul or unfinished business here, different things, you know, but um not sure what that is. I do believe that part of that soul existing is I think people are sometimes interacted with by maybe their ancestors or people they knew or certain things like and and that while that soul does leave this earthly realm. I don't think it leaves, you know, this third rock from the sun and goes somewhere else as much as it passes into something else, and then now there are places or times where that veil is thin, and things maybe maybe it passes through on a visual side of things where you see stuff, and um, and that's why there's really really not any good video evidence of of these things because maybe cameras can see stuff that the human eye can't, but also like the amount of phones that are buzzing around this world right now, we definitely would have seen a Bigfoot by now, and we would have seen a demon or an angel or a ghost or something, like like like obviously uh in an obvious way we'd be like, oh yeah, look at that's definitely that thing, but I just don't know that the camera can get grab that thing necessarily as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:43

Yeah, yeah, and I like you gotta also ask yourself too, like, if uh if the adversary is cunning. Um by the adversary, I'm talking about Satan. Uh if he's cunning and he wants people to not know God, I mean that's his ultimate like objective, right? I do think that it would not benefit Satan at all to be uh operating in a method and demons, other demons operating in a method in which they are visible. You know what I mean? Like, because if they were to do that, it would, you know, if if we had raw footage of a demon moving shadowy across someone's house and then possessing someone or something like that. I'm being rather facetious with this example. But then there'd be a lot of people who no longer have any doubt at all. They'd see that and they'd be like, huh. And don't get me wrong, there's always be doubters, but there'd be saying, like, okay, well, if that's real, the other side of that coin probably is too, and I should probably I should probably start getting myself right. And uh so it doesn't it doesn't gain Satan anything. And then on the other side too, it's like, well, then why doesn't God just show and reveal himself on camera? Or like with angels on camera, well, because then you wouldn't need faith at all. There'd be there'd be no free will, there'd just be the like requirement of like accepting, like, okay, well, I now don't require to have faith in this thing because I've seen it recorded and sent out to you know millions of people on the internet, so therefore I should just believe in it. But you're not believing of it out of your own volition and free will, you're believing it because now there's no way to deny it and you must grapple with the consequences. So, all that said, I think there's a I think that to me is the quote unquote like Christianese spiritual reason why you like stuff like that isn't clearly caught on camera. And then maybe this other stuff that is more ghostly, more haunting. I think the reason it is is because it's not of anyone's control. Like it is just again, the vacuum of someone who's gone now. And whatever that, you know, vacuous presence is just kind of an echo. And there's no one manifesting or controlling that. There's no malicious entity controlling that. It's just like it just exists. Just kind of like uh, you know, um, have you ever heard of like uh ball lightning? It's like ball lightning that we have captured a few things on record that might be truly no CGI, no editing of like videos and photos of ball lightning and it like just naturally existing. It follows no rhyme or reason of anything. It has like it just simply exists, it doesn't behave like lightning, it doesn't behave like plasma, it just floats around arcing and then dissipates once it has run out of energy. And uh I kind of think that's exactly kind of like the way some of these remains of of people who have probably suffered and you know that vacuum exists because of of a very traumatic event, right? And that's why it remains, that's why it's so so uh powerful enough that like it can actually disrupt and unsettle people or people might see things. So again, you know, that's that's me doing my best to explain like it in the lens of you know uh a biblical context. Um but I'm also you know, I'm no ghost expert. Ghost hunter. Yeah, which also like uh what is that? Um apparently the couple behind uh all those movies, um the conjuring movies, uh-huh the that move those movies are based off of a you know the stories of an actual couple who did a lot of paranormal investigations. Apparently they're like really strong believers.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

Really?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Yeah. Which I'm like, a part of me's like, I kind of like would like to pick their brain on it. I think they always write it up to though that there's no actual in all those instances from what I've seen in like the movies and what I've heard of interviews with them, they've never been like, yeah, these are the ghosts of like people, as much as like these are like demons who have like who possessed or convinced people to do awful things. Those people are in hell. Like they died and went to hell. And this thing is still remaining here, waiting for like another person to like latch onto and you know, pull away. And I was just like, damn, that's crazy. I don't even know if I want to begin to wrestle if I believe that's accurate or not. You know what I mean? Like, because that is some insanely frightful, consequential stuff if you already believe in that world.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:52

Yep, yep. Sometimes I'm always like, This is so bad. I'm like, can I just stay can I be watered down just enough Christian that I don't have to like see the demon? Like, like that they're like, because yeah, like in a like in the screw tape letters, you know, C.S. Lewis version of it, it's to your point, what you're saying earlier, which is you know, the whole thing that he is screw tape's doing is uh not letting the guy know he's there. You know, it's like if a seven foot-tall like thing walked in here with spiky evil crown on and a flaming sword, it'd be like Okay Jesus, Jesus, please. I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. Exactly. Make them all in. It's like can we just it's like, do I want to get all the do I do I want to be do I want to see that?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:42

Do I be that kind of a threat?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what I do sometimes. I'm being completely honest, yeah, a little freaky.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:49

Yeah, but uh I certainly believe it takes a certain type of individual to remain an exorcist. And I say that because I don't think it requires much for you to become an exorcist and like mind-body will. It's like, yeah, casting out demons sounds sick, performing exorcism sounds awesome. I guess it would, you know, provide me some pretty insane concrete stuff to my faith and validation. Then after that first time, though, and you know you stick around to keep doing it, that takes a unique person.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

Because it's enemies gloves off on you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:23

Yeah, you know, it's like so we in the ring now. Yeah, exactly. It's all fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:27

Yeah, that's the part that's oh man. Very careful with that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

And on the foot, and you really gotta be careful opening yourself up to you know, the like being pro, pro-demon.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:43

Well, and this was something I was kind of waiting to say towards the end and work approaching the end, but apparently there's a lot of stuff that Chris Watts has talked about that him and his mistress were like into witchcraft stuff. Hence why he says, like, I felt like there's demons at my back, there's two shadowy figures the whole time, stuff like that, right? And uh, I'm just like, damn, you know, I I think this man's a monster, and he's my my logic and reason tells me he's just trying to come up with an excuse to pat push blame off of himself for the horrible things he did, and blame it on the on the mistress, blame it on, you know, spiritual stuff, whatever. Anything to not take responsibility and accountability for the awful things he did. At the same time, I a hundred percent believe that you open the door to that stuff and make yourself a receptive individual, you can a hundred percent be manipulated into doing some awful things. Um there's actually a comedian who talked about how he used to be a Satanist and was part of the church of Satan Satanism. Yeah, his Shane something. Yeah, can't remember. Not Shane Gillis, guys. Yeah. It's the other this other one.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:00

Throat tatted Shane.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:01

Yeah, throat tatted Shane, but he's a Christian now, he's a very strong devout believer. That's of recent.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:05

Yeah, like that's the last like year and a half, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:09

Maybe. I saw him for I first saw him on Dry Bar Comedy, which is like a Mormon comedy club in Utah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:17

And it's Dry Bar because they don't, you know, have any profanity or you know, it's supposed to be moderately clean jokes and stuff. So I part of me wonders if like he was already stepping away from Satanism then. But I do know, yeah, he became a believer recently, and he is so serious about it that he won't even talk. He's like, I'm not saying the book I read and the things I did. Yeah. Because then people are gonna be dumb enough to go out there and try to find this book and do those things. Uh-huh. And it's bad. It's so bad. And he's like, So I'm just gonna I'll I'll talk about things from like a scrubbed perspective, and I'll, you know, um kind of scrub out the details of specifics. But he talked about some pretty haunting stuff of how he started dabbling in stuff and too many things were happening, and then some real stuff happened, and he's like, Oh, okay, well, this is very real.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:06

Uh the adversaries are out there, and I don't want any part of it, you know. So I I kind of I respect him for going on and talking about that and like talking about in a way that you know was not using it to um really valid, like, or not validate, but like really be like something he's milking for money. Right. But being like, well, like I'm not, I don't want to talk about it any more than I have to to just like tell the story of just I wasn't saying this. Yeah, like that was pretty bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

I became a Christian, fill in the blanks. Trying to not like not not bring that curiosity into it. Yeah, like I'm I'm I I have curiosity around it. Just me too.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:46

You know, but like I had a couple friends when I was in high school, they're like agnostic atheists, and they're like, let's get a Ouija board and go to a hotel for the weekend and like use the Ouija board. And I was like, look, guys, I'm gonna be real with you. Yeah I am fully convinced that I am saved. I'm fully convinced that there's nothing else that could possess this body and the Holy Spirit dwells in it. I will go with you purely for the sake of praying for you in that room, yeah, but like I'm not the one who's gonna get messed up.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:18

You guys haven't accepted the Holy Spirit, so you're you're an empty vessel waiting to receive something, and that something's gonna be coming out. And they're like, Yeah, no, come on, man. You know, they're like joking about I'm like, dude, I'm let's I'm game. If you really are gonna do this, please let me know so I can be there. Because I don't want you to do it without me because I'm afraid for you. I'm concerned. And I think that was enough to scare them out of it, dude. Because we never ended up doing anything. I know those dudes never went and did it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

But like they were kind of like they didn't see it as a serious thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:48

And once you brought it up, I think they saw it as a way of disproving people.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

Right, just being, yeah, like this is goofy, let's go mess around. But then you're when you're like so serious about like guys, no, they're like, wait, what? I don't think it's a good okay, it's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:02

Yeah, it's it's like one of those things of like, let's see how far out we can swim. And I'm like, there's things out there in the water, and I have a life. It's not it's not even a life that's like I'll go with you, but I'll be in the boat. Yeah, unfortunately, this is a one-man boat, and I'm gonna be praying that you guys get some boats miraculously, but yeah, dude, you gotta be careful with that stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:23

And uh even the uh there's something too about like even whether that's those supernatural things are real or not, the fact that you're compromising yourself to them is evil. Yeah does that make sense? Like it's just like going down those lines, seeking out the things that is because because we want to um like when when we talk about things like evil, you want you you want it to be uh you know gray. I guess it depends who's you, who's you meaning you if you're talking about these super evil things, you're thinking this is Exorcist or the exorcist of Emily Rose, like your head upside down, crawling up the walls, vomiting, like you know, evil, this is clearly evil, this is wild. But no, like evil's actually like a lot more uh sugar coated. It's a lot less hard to spot. Like when I was growing up as a kid, I always thought you watch movies, you're like, when I grow up, I'm gonna know exactly who the bad guy is. Because the bad guy in the movies, it's obvious, it's that orc, or it's like, you know, the evil, the the evil guy and that scientist who's about to shoot the death ray at the at, you know, and kill all these people. Well, guess what? There's not that many like orcs and death ray guys walking around, but there is plenty of evil in this world still, and it's just kind of you know, it's harder to spot sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:48

Dude, to that point, look at Chris Watts. Uh-huh. Dude did not look like he was capable of that evil.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:53

Looks like normal family man. Looks like he'd go to our church.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

Looks like uh binging with Babish. Yeah. Which that guy does not look evil to me. You know what I mean? Like, and uh it's pretty, yeah. And I think that's the one thing I learned too, like from time to law enforcement, is like the most evilest dudes in the jail were not the dudes who looked evil.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

They probably you probably could have a conversation with them and they'd you'd kind of laugh and tell a story.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:21

I think I I truly believe no one has any comprehension of like the most wicked, awful dude that I can think of in there was a dude who like did some really awful like he raped a lot of kids. Um he's a dude I told you about who fled to the Middle East and had like an insane extradition, and so his bond was massively high. And uh I think that dude is the most evil person I've ever been in the same room as. And uh honestly, it just looks like he could have been any professor at any college.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:59

Could have had a nice conversation with him at the bar, like a drinking buddy, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:02

Like, but like I had I had several nice conversations with him, and that of like, you know, having to just like check and make sure he was breathing. A very civil person, uh-huh, incredibly evil, incredibly disgusting, you know what I mean? Yeah, brought into the core, rancid, and you would never know. Anyways, yeah, it's October, Halloween, spooky season, uh-huh. And uh, I think that's that's pretty spooky. I think that might be the spookiest episode yet. Uh, and uh I'm uh I'm unsettled, bro. Well, I'm not really because I anytime we talk about spiritual stuff, I really don't get unsettled. I like I get really comfortable and level home in the dark. Yeah, yeah. When you were a kid about like the girl driving home and the guy behind her keeps on flashing his brights, yeah, yeah. That one's a good one. Oh yeah, that one always sticks with me. Oh yeah. I always check the backseat still, dude. To this day, I've always ever since that story. I read it as a kid. I always look at the backseat of the car before I get in. So I'm just like, I just want to make sure no one's down there on the floorboards.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:18

There's a couple of those campfire stories I need to uh I remember the premise of it. I gotta go revisit to I gotta because it's it's about time to bust some of those out.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:26

No, your boys will be so messed up. No, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:29

I mean, about time I'm like five years out.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:31

They messed me up in like fourth grade, like sleepless, crying under my blanket, biting my pillow. Yeah, like I hear the chain link fence rattling, I'm gonna die. Oh, yeah. You know, uh, anyways, thanks for joining us, kid. We appreciate you. We hope you enjoyed this. Definitely go check out uh Bob and his YouTube channel. Like I said, he's got really well-done entertainment videos, um, but grounded, not entertainment for the sake of you know, capitalizing on uh, you know, the the unfortunate experiences of others and the deaths of others, but actually like um entertaining analysis and logistic not logistic, logical uh reasoning as he's going over them. I find them enjoyable. Uh so shout out to him. Hope he doesn't mind us analyzing his video and reacting to it, but I just thought it'd be a good one for you, Pat. Uh yeah, thanks for joining us. Pat, you got anything? Until next time.