Storms, Roots, And Resilience: Jamaica After The Hurricane

A stripped hillside can change a life more than a broken wall. That’s the image that frames our conversation as Dean returns from Jamaica’s mountain communities and walks us through the quiet disaster most headlines missed: fruit trees leveled, tin roofs torn, and families suddenly cut off from the food they used to pick outside their doors. We talk about what disappears when the forest goes bare—bananas, mangos, coconuts—and how long it takes to coax a harvest back. Eight to twelve months is a long time when kids need lunch tomorrow.

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Transcript

Cats, Kids, And Avatar

SPEAKER_01 0:48

I didn't know you had a cat.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Got two of 'em.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

What's your cat's name?

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Uh Momo and Tippy.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Nice. Is it Momo from The Last Avatar?

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Uh no, because I've never actually seen it, but she looks exactly like Momo from The Last Avatar.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Bro, I'll say this. The season one of the live action made me cry. I got insane. Yeah, both me and Billy Jean both cried while watching it. It gave us insane nostalgia.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

I've never I've also never seen it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Oh, dude, she does look like Momo. Yeah, same color. That's crazy. Oh yeah. Honestly, that is probably like the best show to watch with your kids, too, Pat. Oh yeah. Like, because it is so gradual in the introduction of the more like growing up themes. So, like, you know, dealing with death and a loved one passing on and first love stuff like that. But that all like is introduced over the course of like each season just gets a little bit older. And you could really take your time with your kids and just let them watch, like, you know, really like one season a year and grow up together. But uh, I think it's a great show for for like families to watch together. And I personally believe that just because I see Billy Jean's family and they all watched just get together, like you know, families would watch Survivor, and it really brought that whole family very close in like a way where like Survivor. Well, you know, a lot of families grew up watching Survivor together, you know what I mean? But um and so now like they've all had all their pets named after characters from Avatar and like uh Christmas gifts that were you know based around the show and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

What's the big uh flying Opa? Yeah, what is it? It's a flying weapon. It's like a bison bison platypus. Yeah, it's a bison, flying bison.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good name. Yeah, uh my like my wife, their cats are Sokka and Katara. And then are they Siamese cats? No. No, they're not they're not the same species. Um, but anyways, uh great show. Uh what were we talking about? Oh, we're talking about putting your mouth on your cat's head.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, that's right. Is what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

I did start uh it is like I don't know, man. It there's something about your pet and just the familiarity of it. Like, it is really like just a matter of time before you start like biting your animal. Because I like I straight up when I'm playing around with my dog, I will like bite one of her big floppy ears. Oh yeah. And not like really hard, but just enough to get her to like instigate it so we can like play around and wrestle. Um I don't know. It's like it's kind of like I have no control over it.

Dean Returns From Jamaica

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Yeah, once I'll I'll I'll bite my cat's like ear, but just like with my lips because they're so like thin. Yeah, not to actually hurt them. See if I can get a rise out of them.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Exactly, exactly. Uh Ken, in case you haven't realized, Dean's here in the studio with us. And uh Dean Dean uh has been on the podcast a few episodes before. Gosh, like almost like a dozen now, I bet. I bet not a dozen, half a dozen. But uh Dean, you just got back from a trip to Jamaica. And you know, honestly, uh knowing more about how um just much damage was caused from the latest hurricane uh season that swept over it. I think you know, Pat and I both had the conversation was like, oh, like be good to have like someone who had some first hand like eyewitness stuff about it. Cause I just don't think a lot of people it didn't it didn't have almost any coverage in the news cycle. Yeah, no, it didn't. And so I don't think anyone's really aware of um, you know, just the damage that uh a lot of the Jamaica technically Bahamas region.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

It's in the Caribbean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

The Caribbean, yeah. Um I don't think a lot of people are aware of like the damage some of the Caribbean nations went through with that.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

So really kind of constantly through, to be honest, huh?

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Just constantly through it. Just how other like year in and year out. There's different different islands getting smashed.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah, yeah, but it's not like uh I don't think you'd be races as much, right? Like like this was a pretty strong one from what I understand. Um but also we're happy just to have you on to just chat and catch up, and there's a lot of things in the last couple weeks that we could talk about going into the holiday season where we'll take a little bit of hiatus. Um, but anyways, happy that you're here, dude. Always a pleasure to have you here. It's been a while eating some homemade cookies. Yeah, you'll if you didn't hear my munching already. That's alright. Um, anyways, so uh let's talk about it. Yeah, we don't really have like any specific questions organized or anything like that that we won't like want to like have you go through. Like we didn't have anything prepped. It's more just like want to listen to you know, really what is the status, you know, and what is it like on the ground there in Jamaica, especially because you said I remember you had gone before six years ago. Yeah, right. So you so you kind of have seen you have a good way of comparing like you know the the difference between you know half a dozen years.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

And was that with the church when you went?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Okay, so you went on like one of the first ones or yeah, I think it was the second one.

Hurricane Damage In The Hills

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Okay. And then um I've been two other times as well apart from the church. Okay. So I've been quite a few times. Uh the two things that I think were the most surprising, um one of which was more surprising than the other one, but just when when really strong hurricanes come through, uh you tend to think more of like the structural building damage. But really what ends up being really devastating for in this case a lot of the mountain communities, because the hurricane did most of the damage up in the hills, and is really just how the vegetation just gets pretty much ripped out of the ground. Um and so it's like after you see a forest fire where the trees are just like naked, it's almost the same thing. Um, because the trees are kind of ripped in half, like the banana trees, which are mostly water, are um are ripped out of the ground um or laying flat. So really the forest, which is typically pretty full and plush, just looks pretty naked. And that causes a ton of issues because it's ultimately a lot of the food, a lot of the fruit and the things that they're growing in the forest. Um, so food ends up being pretty difficult for a lot of those mountain communities. Um and the other thing is that uh a lot of their roofs, if they can't afford a concrete roof, then they have uh they have tin roofs. Um so those, if you get like even the slightest bit of wind catching those, it'll rip the whole roof off, basically. So uh a lot of the shelters up there are pretty pretty mangled. If they don't get ripped off with the wind, the tree might fall on them. Um so they don't none of them have power and because they're trying to fix a lot of the power in the sit like the city or some of the coastal areas. So those mountain communities really just don't have any power right now, and typically only a handful of places within those mountain communities will have a generator. Uh not most of the houses don't. So yeah, it's it's pretty devastating. I think a lot of a lot of the people there went without food for um for a while are pretty limited food. Um you can't just go and take some bananas from the trees or go to your typical mango tree or because they're pretty dependent on like subsistence living in the area. Yeah, yeah, especially a lot of foraging. Yeah, like there's but there's banana trees everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah, it the thing I think I'm trying to grasp here is like there's orchards everywhere around here right now. Like where we live in in Colorado, there's orchards everywhere. But you can't just walk up to them and grab whatever you want, right? Like that's someone's property, someone's livelihood, and someone's food that they're growing to either sell or sustain themselves. And so it sounds like though in Jamaica, like it's not someone's property and someone's tree.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

It's that like the it's a combo of both. Like some people have their properties and you're you're kind of living on a little bit of it's it's not so much a farm, but you have you'll like you'll plant these trees in your backyard that you're using for for food. Um, and they've like all sorts of fruit, basically, at the end of the day, and and then coconut as well. Uh, but the rest of the forest as well has its vegetation, maybe not as specific as the things that you've planted in your yard, but everything's mangled, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Like and and no one owns this other stuff in the forest? Like it's like just I don't know for sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Uh but there's forests, you're up in the mountains, so it's forest everywhere. It's it's like if you were to go to a cabin or something here where majority of the forest around you is like pretty uh pretty unoccupied. Um like you have these communities and there's like some roads and stuff going through it, but a lot of a lot of the forest around um is gonna be pretty pretty open.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Cause when you because the and also because this I mean like lots of people have like maybe been to Jamaica and like been to a resort, right? You know, or like seen pictures of it. And like the these mountain villages are are they pretty starkly different? Or just like or like or just like like how as far as like what was what's access like getting there? Like what and like what would like the um and compared like infrastructure compared to like wherever, like if you're like on like on Tigo Bay or something, yeah, you know, versus like these um what's that what's their it's a little village, it's like six thousand people or something in the whole city or maybe and they're pretty spread out too.

Food Loss, Power Outages, Tin Roofs

SPEAKER_03 13:05

So um these people are kind of all over the place. But a lot a lot of these people will go back and forth to the city to get stuff if they need, and then whenever a storm happens, like roads might be cut out, the power's out, um the buses might not be running at all. Um, so there's not really food coming and going. They kind of just have the resources that are around them. And in this case, there's not like grocery stores or anything. Like you might have like some local stores with like snacks, like drinks, like beer and stuff, like kind of just like corner stores basically. But it's not gonna be like a your typical grow grocery store that you go to to pick up stuff for cooking. Um and so it's it's it's just a it's a very minimalist lifestyle, uh like because of poverty ultimately. Um like you don't you don't have like a j a big kitchen with like gas or anything like readily available, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah, are are they pretty much still uh like powering everything from propane for the most part?

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Yeah, yeah, and um yeah, and in this case for the people that do have generators, like they're using that for their lights and stuff. Um but then it's probably hard pretty hard to get gas, or you've got to make a lot of trips back and forth from the city to get gas. Um what about what about like water?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Like what's the water infrastructure like? Like, do they have like wells that feed into individual properties that they dig, or is it like there's a lot of springs in the area?

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Oh, there is a few primary ones in this community that people go to, and that's where they'll go to like uh collect their water, or they'll go and bathe. Like it's like a spring just kind of like shooting out of the hillside. And so um, some people will go wash their clothes there, uh bathe there, collect water to bring it back to um wherever. So stuff like filters and stuff are really helpful um for them. Some springs are cleaner than others, so uh some are like gonna be primarily used for bathing. And it's not like it's not like a pool that you're in where it's like somebody's bathing in there. It's like the water's kind of shooting out of the mountain, so you're just like kind of standing there, like letting it splash you, um, or like rinsing your water because they've kind of like um irrigated it down or something where you can wash your your clothes and stuff in there.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

It's not like it's not like India where people are like bathing and pooping in the Ganges. Right. And then still the same people are like scooping water out of it to cook later. Right. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Um that's rough. So because this was in in the because in the past you went with our church to do, you know, a mission trip there. Um what was the how did you I get this trip kind of got put together pretty fast. I think like what was did um how'd you end up on this trip or what and what was the main mission of the trip and you know what would it look like before you guys headed out there and what were you doing there?

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Uh my perspective is a bit limited because I was actually I was I was traveling for work when I got invited. So I was in I was in Vietnam for a week and then the following week I was in Indonesia. Um and so I came back for less than a week, and it was kind of a pretty last-minute decision. They're like, hey, like we've got a few people going, do you want to go? Uh I had wanted to go on the last trip that they were on, but didn't. Um so this time I was like, yeah, I'll I'll go, I'll make it work. Uh it wasn't gonna be a really big work trip. Sometimes you go for like a pro like the team's doing a project and everybody's gonna focus and rallying behind that. But this was a little bit less of that. It was mostly bringing supplies and seeing what work needed to be done, and then future trips would be for doing that work. Uh so this one was just like six of us, and they were they they did the other five did all of the work for gathering the supplies. Um so whenever I came back, it was kind of um I went back to catch up at work essentially, and then we just then we just left from there and took all the supplies. There was a lot of supplies. There was like probably there's probably 20. There's like black and yellow bins. Yeah. That we tote bins. Yeah, that we took on the flight. Um, which went pretty smooth, actually. I thought it was gonna be a nightmare, right? It went pretty smooth.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Because I didn't know, I'm pretty sure there's a thing. There's something with airlines where like if you're doing relief work, cost is lower, you can call them and tell, like, hey, we're bringing the seven. Yeah, yeah, they can it's uh I don't know if it yeah, if it they they either lower the cost or sometimes maybe they comp it all the way. I'm not sure, but like I didn't I just I'd never the way that like uh airlines are so almost like becoming like the mafia like mobsters on like on baggage, uh but like the uh it's a good thing to know about to you know that you can you can use uh use that resource and yeah this this particular airline did not do that, and that was kind of a surprise.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah, uh you can name them name. This is the whole point of this podcast is that you could say shit like that. Frickin' American. It's like the the second that's not surprising. I'm pretty greedy. Yeah, I flew American coming back from Australia when I was in Indonesian. I was also pretty butthurt on that flight, too. That one was kind of brutal. I usually fly United, and I think I'm gonna I'm gonna stick with that to be honest.

Springs, Water, And Generators

SPEAKER_01 18:26

I'm always doing Southwest or United if I have to, but yeah, no, I I remember during uh COVID when it was first kicking off. Um and uh oh sorry, no, it wasn't COVID. It was uh a few Christmases ago, Billy Jean and I were flying and Southwest had their giant meltdown, right? Do you remember all their systems crashed? Like there was like thousands of people stuck in DIA. Uh while that was happening, dude, we saw we were watching real-time American airlines increase coach tickets up to like four grand. So if you wanted if you wanted to get out and get on one of the airlines, you had to pay four grand to like not even ride in first class. It's insane. Yeah, it was in it was unreal. You can't waste a good tragedy. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

You know what we should have done? We should have we should have started bargaining with them during COVID whenever their prices were playing be like, mmm, I'll give you 58 bucks for this ticket.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So then how many how many days were you guys you guys there? Uh just five. Just five days. Yeah, it was a quick one. Sunday, Sunday through Thursday.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

What did go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

What primarily were like the supplies you guys would bring in or Yeah, a lot of tools, uh a lot of food. So dry foods like rice, flour, sugar, uh tuna, like canned tuna, um beef sticks, you know. Uh man, I eat uh beef sticks and can tuna for a few meals. Uh yeah, a lot of dry foods and then uh tools and supplies um primarily. Because we'll end up using when we were there, the work that we were doing, which was pretty minimal compared to work on future and past trips, uh, was mostly clearing, um, so clearing out trees, vegetation, stuff so that they could re replant at the church. Because they supply a lot of food too. So um there was just debris like all over uh all over like a little bit of property that they had. So we're just trying to clean it up so that they could replant some banana trees and stuff. The pastor there, he's uh you can tell he's definitely um a farmer at heart. He loves it.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Oh, I was gonna say m I was wondering, you know, what was the level of lawlessness or uh community insecurity compared to when you've been before, because I remember they for some reason the picture they decided to show before, you know, you guys all went was the picture and they were trying to raise money in supplies. It was a picture of the pastor down in Jamaica would just walk around with machete looking mean. Like looking mean, dude. And like they made it, it kind of like I don't think that our church meant to make it sound like and it's dangerous. Like he he they need help, right? But I it kind of looked like it was like he's he's roaming with the machete to fucking bandits off, you know? I don't mean to make a joke, right? But I was wondering like what what you know is is the community like pretty much like self-policing really well or like was it were you down there where you're like yeah, it was actually like a lot less safe than it we previous times we were down there.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

It felt it felt pretty tame, but then again, like right after the hurricane had happened.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Right, because it was a how what what day did when it's because it's been a month? Yeah, it's been about a month. About a month, so kind of that initial like couple days could have been could have been pretty wild.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Yeah, I have no idea. Um yeah, things were pretty tame when I was there, and you can tell that like a lot of the kids and stuff. Like they're pretty pretty they're not like outwardly very hungry, but they'll ask you for snacks a lot. Um and uh yeah, like they'll take they'll take food like any chance they'll ask for it and they'll look for it. So the assumption is that they're they're not eating super well at home. Uh nobody said that. Is that different than the past when you've been there? Like like mo it it seemed like it. Yeah. And maybe I wasn't as aware like last time we were there, we weren't really eating sna like our own snacks. Like the church was making food for us when we were there. Um, so I don't recall people asking a lot for food. And it could have been just like the snacks that we had were particularly snacks that they enjoyed this time. Like that's possible.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Um, but well, it's also not like there's a lot of game, right? Like there's not a lot of stuff that you can just go out and hunt or right.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

No, yeah, nothing really.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Like we were Hawaii where there's just chickens always roaming around.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

Where there's there's a there's goats everywhere. Um, but we were at this one lady's house, and she had she had some animals. There was like a few dogs there, there was like two parrots, and there was a cage of rabbits. And some of the kids were really excited to show us, show me these rabbits. So I like went over and looked at them. And these weren't like these weren't like giant rabbits that you just like see out in front of your house. Like these were the giant bunnies, like they looked like they were pets, yeah. Um, and they were freaking huge. Those are food rabbits. Good meat rabbits. Well, I asked them like in my eyes, I'm like, it looks like uh a pet rabbit because they're pretty cute, of course. And I was like, what are you doing with these rabbits? And one other kid just shouts out from the weeds, he's like, Food, and I was just like, damn, yeah, checks out.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Dude, we had we have a friend at church that used to he ate them in college. He had his own rabbit. No way, yeah. He had a bunch of rabbits in his garage and ate them in college.

Trip Logistics And Supplies

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Dude, people get on the the meat rabbit. Have you like there's this guy on YouTube who's been making meat rabbits pretty popular? Yeah, because he shows like the the speed at which they reproduce, the speed at which they grow, and then how little we're how little you gotta do for them, and like really the meat yield percentages compared to like chicken and stuff is crazy high. Like wow, hundreds of percent. Like, I want to say like more.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

And so disease is way less, dude. That was a for when I graduated college. That buddy he barbecued some rabbits for us.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

You know, I don't think my choice of graduation food would just be a couple of rabbits. It was so good.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

It was like a very, very tender, sweet barbecue meat. It was great. I could not tell it was what kind of sauce? Barbecue sauce? I mean, it you didn't need sauce, it was just like basted in until it was falling off the bone, you know? Yeah, it was like pulled rabbit. Wow, it was delicious. He also has had a lot of he's had quails and pheasants and doves. Anyways, yeah, off kind of off topic. But um, what so what did you spend most of this trip doing? Like I imagine it wasn't like actually rebuilding, but it was more like supervising handout of assets that were like donated and fundraised.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Yeah, yeah. So one of the important things is like not creating dependency for anything. So you have to give the supplies to the church or somebody local that then can kind of distribute them and pass them out. Um like you don't want people thinking that you're coming. Like they're what a lot of people see on like other mission trips and stuff is that they do work and then the next time the project that they're doing the next time that they go there, it hasn't been touched since you left. And it's because they think you're coming back and you're gonna do it and you're gonna finish it for them. Um and so in this particular instance, there's so much work that can be done that you're not going like what are you gonna do? Like pick and choose one person in the community that you're gonna help them with their roof, and then everyone else, you're just like, sorry, like see you later.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah, that's that's what I was looking at my phone, just all these pictures of, and it seems like a lot of the structures are still there. Yeah, but roofs, roofs are the roofs around, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Yeah, yeah, because the the not all, but a lot of the like a lot of the proper structures are like concrete homes um with like pretty good foundations. But so yeah, we're sorting supplies, giving that to the the church, they're gonna kind of pass that out and give that to the families. Uh, and then the other thing was just like, okay, how do we support the church there? Because they're doing a lot of work for the community. Uh, for example, when parents aren't working and they can't, I don't it seemed like it was like they have to pay for school of some sort, but the kids weren't going to school, therefore the kids aren't eating any meals uh because they're not being fed, they're not going to school, they're not being fed at school. Yeah. So then the church is like, well, then you need to bring the kids to the church, and then we'll feed them and we'll teach them, basically. Um, so there's a lot of kids at the church for school, like for daycare sort of stuff. Yeah. Um and so the church kind of plays that role there. So we were kind of working to clear the church's property so that they can get things planted and kind of like get some food going and kind of redistribute. And I will say that for being a month since the hurricane, the plants in the jungle grow rapidly fast. So fast, yeah. Yeah. Like you've already you've already got like a like foot and a half, two feet like stock on some of these banana trees or like these coconut trees that are still there. Like things are growing really fast. Yeah. Um, it'll probably be a year before eight months, maybe a year before they're having any fruit, essentially, but that's still eight months to a year that like people are looking for other ways for food.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah, no, it's it's a long time to be going hungry um and having to like rely on generosity for food. Yeah. That's pretty crazy. I mean, I guess it is very hard for me to like picture just because I don't really think we have an equivalency. You know, I think there's a couple towns in like the very remote parts of like the Rocky Mountains and stuff that you could, you know, say, like, yeah, during a blizzard, they don't have a grocery store and it's a town of several hundred people or something, and they're they gotta freaking stick it out. But the one thing that like all of North America has, no matter where you go, is game. Yeah, sure. Like, and like the be a very beautiful part of the you know uh American culture is like you can't be punished for hunting game if it's on sustenance. Sure. You know, like if it's like if if someone's like, bro, you just killed this moose without a tag, and you're like, it was the only thing around, and my family was starving. It's like, okay, well, you gotta get let off, right? And um I'm pretty sure that's universally across the the Continental 48 at least.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

The you can still get in trouble for it, definitely. It the way that it's policed can be like discretionary, yeah. Yeah, it's discretionary, whereas like, you know, there is there's like you know, game wars and stuff who like they know that guy poached that deer out of season. Also, they know that like that family has no food. Like, yeah, so there are like technically technically it's still just as illegal, you can get in just as much trouble, but the just there's discretionary pieces in there, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

I've I just remember hearing the stories from Alaska State troopers about crazy poor like families that have never had a bank account and they live somewhere with no power or running water, right? They're living off of like it's a it's a cabin. Yeah, and they go get their fresh water from the river, yeah. Or they break the ice in the lake to get it, you know what I mean? Or they like are smelting snow for it, and like they're just like, yeah, I'm just gonna like they whatever they hunt and eat, they can hunt and eat. Like they're never gonna kill something if that if they can't eat it before it spoils.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

And there's a pretty decent population of animals in in Alaska.

Clearing Land And Replanting

SPEAKER_01 30:58

More more uh what is it? What's the I think there's more moose in Alaska than there are humans, yeah. Which is crazy because like there's not that many moose anywhere else down here, right? They're everywhere. And there it is. I saw more moose than I saw people when I was in Alaska. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

They estimate of a around upwards of 200,000 moose in Alaska. Moose Moose, yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Moxin. What a what a what a classic video. Classic moose. Yeah. Um, but uh so I it's very hard for me to conceptually like gather, like, okay, how do you even have a community in an in an area so remote if like it could cyclically uh be at the whim of like you know, the region and weather to to like lose your ability to sustain itself. So it definitely like I'm not and this is not me like saying like they should move or anything like that. It's more just like I I am trying to imagine like how that culture has done this in the past and how they've done it for the last several hundred years, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 32:06

And this this hurricane is is was much stronger than a lot of things in recent memory, right? Yeah um, but it's a combination of a lot of things, like it's not like this the community is so remote that like they have no access to people or anything, but like roads get washed out, you can't like the buses aren't making their way up there. It's like a 45 minute to an hour and a half drive, so it's not like you're walking it or anything. Um they don't have jobs, so yeah. Some people don't have jobs, they're not like they're not they don't have cars, so they're not like commuting down there or anything. So it's it's a lot of factors that compile.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Um is there any industry there outside of tourism? Like, like is a big like are there mines there at all, like that like are ran by the state or anything that a lot of people work at?

SPEAKER_03 33:00

You know, I don't know, but the Chinese are uh their presence is is pretty big there, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

No way, yeah. Really, I did not know that. I knew the Chinese had a huge present in a lot of African nations, did not know they were the Caribbean pretty big for materials and resources, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:18

So but in the Caribbean and in South America, they're almost just doing it. Oh actually, there's a lot of resources in South America. The Caribbean I don't understand, but they're like building hotels and bridges and like uh roads, like and it's like it's like known, like people know that it's happening. Yeah, they're like, Yeah, the Chinese are here, um, and they'll like point at like this overpass that's being built, and it's like the most impressive overpass or roadway that they've ever seen. And they're like, Yeah, the Chinese are doing that. And they're it's like it's like why are the Chinese doing that?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Bro, because if if you're if you're in debt to them, they can just take your whole country over. I mean, it's a it's a hostile acquisition.

unknown 34:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

That's a that's what they uh are doing in um Djibouti. I had a few buddies who have been deployed to acquisition deployed to well, they were they were deployed to Djibouti. No, it is funny, it's a hostile acquisition of Djibouti, but it's because that nation has no concept of like this is gonna sound rough, but I don't really care. I'm really beyond people getting their feelings hurt over like just the way the world works and economic policy. But many of these third world nations have a hard time uh with their leadership planning out long term and having any long-term vision. So when the Chinese are saying, like, hey, uh, we'll build this for this much money, and you'll owe us this much as a you know, in a result of it, uh, they're like taking the entire possible GDP that the government of some of these nations could like dream of in a decade. Yeah. And they're taking it in like a single project, a single infrastructure project, like a road or a uh electrical grid or plumbing infrastructure, wall like clean water, right? And so then they have these countries buy the flipping ball sack for decades and decades. It's like, oh, you're you're not gonna pay. Oh, well, then power's off and the water's off. Yeah, we're shutting down the road. Um, and then it and like they're agreeing to like essentially like the Chinese government owns those assets and stuff, and they're they're purchasing up essentially territory nations, yeah. Which don't really be very wise of the Chinese, not very wise of everyone who's just like selling off. Oh yeah, today I'll do that. Well, because they're not even selling it, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:55

They're just handing it.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

They're saying, like, yeah, you can build that, and yeah, we'll pay to build it, and we'll have our people help you with it. And you know, it's pretty smart, right? Because the Chinese never buys the land.

Safety, Scarcity, And Kids’ Hunger

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Right. Well, it a lot of what the Chinese are doing, the China is the world's biggest importer of food and resources, right? Like it's actually a very resource-poor country. Um, and so for places like South America and Africa, uh, and Russia as well, but like you can't really take advantage of Russia in the ways that people historically have in Africa and South America. So the the presence of Russia and China in Africa secretly that people don't really see or realize, like there are like the amount of missions that the military is currently doing in Africa in this like secret fight for resources and um areas and territories in Africa. They shot at the Chinese.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

My buddies were deployed, they let they had fired warning shots at the Chinese regularly. Yeah, because of how close the Chinese would get with their land vehicles, and dude, the Chinese would like play chicken on the road, like they would drive at you. It's so funny. Trying to get you to like American humbies to like drive off.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

And I was like, that's insane, dude. And there, I don't think I don't know if people remember this, but there was recent, like maybe about a year ago or so, kind of a big deal that in a territory in Africa that France had, uh, the people in in that territory in Africa were just like, yeah, we don't want the French anymore. Like, we want the Russians. Yeah. And they were just getting ready to basically kick the French to the curb. Uh, but most it was some stupid, stupid amounts, like 70 something percent of um France's uh uranium was coming from their further nuclear power.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

And it was a really big deal because France was just gonna be shit out of luck because the Russians were just coming in and just isn't France France still shit out of luck.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Like, aren't they still using gas pipelines from or natural gas pipelines from Russia?

SPEAKER_03 38:16

I know Germany was Germany was, yeah, yeah. Um, and that's that's why the Nord Stream pipeline really, really bone them. Um well, they bone themselves, basically, is what they did.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

When they're like Russia's bad, we're supporting Ukraine, and Russia's like, okay, power off.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

No, they were like, Russia's bad, so we're gonna blow up this pipeline that we used.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Well, they opened up all the coal mines in Germany again, too, which was pretty crazy, like as a result of that.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Yeah, and then Russia, oh then Germany also has a very recent which you don't think that this is that this wasn't a thing until they said it out loud, but they're starting to re-militarize, and you're like, You guys don't have a military? Like, I thought we said you aren't allowed to do that ever again.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

We started letting Japan do it when Japan was like, dude, do you see China? Pretty close. Yeah, you guys, you guys could make a military if you need.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

But it it makes you think about what's going on. Well, you had mentioned that, like, yeah, there's a lot of countries that are basically handing themselves and their land over because they're not thinking that far in advance. And it's like, yeah, it's it's true. And even countries that you don't think would do that do do that, like Venezuela right now, or like a lot of countries in South America where like one dictator person takes over this regime change every like 10 years or 15 years, or the CIA marches in there and does their thing, and then all boom, there's a new yeah, there's a new person in there. Um and so all these like crazy relationships and like territories get formed in areas, and it's like we're we're kind of looking in the eyes of this thing in Venezuela, which I think actually as of tonight we'll figure out if they did indeed declare a soft war in Venezuela that they were I don't think they have to declare war anymore. Uh well as as of very recently, they declared Venezuela as being part of a terrorization, which allowed them to do inland strikes.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Yeah, but that also means you don't have to work around. That also means you don't have to declare war with like with the nation of Venezuela. Right. You could just be like, Well, well, it's another war on terror.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

And there was there was we weren't at war with Afghanistan. We were at war with terrorists in Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Not the country, not the country, just their citizens.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

That's where the um it's I I typed in like I just asked chats like what's um what's China's interest in Jamaica and just even like chat GPG is like they want to be close to the Panama Canal for sure and control it. Yeah, yeah. Like, all right, that's there it is.

Meat Rabbits, Goats, And Food Reality

SPEAKER_01 40:58

I definitely think that's we're getting so sidetracked, but we gotta lock down that Panama Canal because if we lose the extra set, we are so boxed in. Um okay, but before we move on from Jamaica, man, I just I guess I kind of want to know like anything that you think you could like if you could tell anyone else who's going there, right? On mission trips. I know we're sending like four or five more teams or something. Um, but uh there might be other people who are going out and doing their own trips as well to any of these kind of Caribbean nations impacted. Do you have any like recommendations for like, hey, here's how to make the best use of your time, really, with like the impact I saw and like you know, going in kind of not blind, but going in not really knowing like what they might need most of. Um because I I mean I don't know how much food did you guys take down there versus like clothing and supplies, you know?

SPEAKER_03 41:54

Yeah, we took a fair amount of clothing. Apparently, clothing is m much more in demand than I had anticipated. So I think that will be a a pretty big thing for the future trips is bringing a lot of bringing a lot of clothing.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

That's that's surprising me because I would think they'd have plenty of that covered versus food. Like I would I would think like food would be much more of a higher priority, but yeah, that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

I don't Quite understand. Um I probably should ask more questions in the realm of like why clothing, what do you need, what do you need for clothing-wise? Yeah. Outside of like socks and underwear, that stuff that stuff makes sense, you know. He bought through quick. Um, but uh yeah, I think maybe one of the most important things is like when you kind of encounter like when a country encounters like a disaster like that, I think the issues the issues of that society can either become more pronounced afterward, or it's an opportunity for things to look different, I'd say. Like small examples that there's there's not many young men in in a lot of these mountain towns, and also just because of the culture there, it's not very common that young men stick around after someone's impregnated, after a female. Yeah, they knock them up and then they leave, bro. Yeah, and so there's there's a a pretty big lacking of male leadership in communities, but something that happens like when none of them are working, they all go home. So, like right now, maybe more than ever that I've seen is like there's actually a lot of the older older guys or kids, not even kids, but young men like that are in their 20s are like back home with their families whenever they're probably out shagging typically and like and spread and seed, and you don't know what happens after that. Um, but it's like this is like to some degree kind of a starting fresh point. So the more you can kind of connect with people in those communities and yeah um I don't just be like praying for them and um like trying to not give different perspective, but you don't want to like come in like change a culture, but just like be praying, like working and living alongside them that maybe you change like some hearts or some thoughts on things and um the issues of that community look a bit different, could look a bit different afterward, you know. Um the work ethic of the young men there is pretty poor. The reality is that when you're sitting there working, that was one thing I was gonna ask.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Was the when you got there, it'd been a month, like was there kind of a lot of just a bunch of stuff still sitting around, you know, or like and or like and in general too, like maybe what you're about to say is like the uh yeah. Like I said, just go ahead and say what you're gonna say. So I think you're gonna answer my question.

Dependency, Distribution, And Roofs

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Well, yeah, yeah, it's it's um when there's not like men in the like in those households and the the moms are taking care of their kids, then the house projects that they have or like the betterment of the home gets put on the back burner for sure. And that makes the that makes the houses worse, which then make it even more difficult when a natural disaster does happen, that like these houses are still pretty behind. Uh and then the other piece of it is that um like when we were there doing work, uh this is just kind of like a cultural piece of it with work ethic. Like fathers being in the home, like in homes do a great deal for young men and kids in terms of identity and encouraging encouraging. He does have a father, don't let him lie to you.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

Um Jesus? You mean God?

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Yeah, that is my that is my my heavenly father, is my earthly father.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Um and so just like a lot of these young guys just don't have they don't have identity, um, and they don't they don't have a lot of discipline. Um and there's no when there's no sense of identity, there's no sense of basically like pulling your weight in the community. Uh like a the way I look at it is that like a present dad, like at the very least, you see your dad get up and go to work every day and come back and bitch about his job, um, and tell you to straighten up and make you go outside and mow the lawn. Um and that's like that's like the bare minimum, right? And then like a really fantastic one, like basically says, like, hey, yeah, you gotta pull your weight because you're part of a community. And if you're not adding value, then what are you even doing? Um, and so you like witness that, but when none of that's around, then none of it's happening at all. So you could be like we're sitting there like cleaning up, like a lot of these kids will like go to the church for food or like go there for help or guidance or power, even like to charge their phones, and you could be sitting there clearing up trees and stuff, and like I have a great deal of love for like a lot of these young guys that are there, but they'll just sit there and basically like holler at you, just watch you work, and just watch you work, yeah. And like you'll walk over and like talk a little bit of shit to them and stuff, but they'll just be talking shit to you the entire time that you're working.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

That's crazy, dog. That is absolutely wild to me.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Um and outside of the disaster, they probably have jobs, like they m they would be working.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

But in this instance, like what age are these young men you think the ones that are because I would imagine that mom, if mom's running if mom's alone in the household, mom's putting the children to to chore work, right?

SPEAKER_03 48:05

You would you would think. You would think.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

But are you saying like none of these children show like none of them work at all? Like none of or none of them like have a sense of duty and discipline to like help clean up the community?

SPEAKER_03 48:19

The youngest ones in times I've been there, the youngest ones will help work, but it's just because they want to hang out with you.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

So they'll like come alongside and like. Like young teenager, yeah, like 12, like pretty much like it from 11 to like maybe 15. Like they'll come and hang out with you and help work. But if you're not there, then they're nothing's gonna happen. But the ones who are sitting there like talking shit and like watching stuff, like they're in their early 20s to mid-20s. Okay. Um, maybe even like 17, 18 or something. Uh and the the males who are the best and the hardest workers are significantly older. Yeah. Like they're like the pastor. Yeah, like they're in their 60s plus. Uh we had one guy working with us that he works for the church, maybe, maybe volunteers, I don't know. But he's dude, he was like in his 70s, and I had I had no idea because he's still out there with a chainsaw, like going going to town.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Dude, I bet that dude is just pure ropey muscle.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

Yeah, like he like he's he's fantastic, dude. He's in he's in great shape. And then we've worked with guys that are in their like 60s that are just like freaking muscled out and they're like digging holes and stuff going to town, but they've like lived in those communities their entire lives and um feel a sense of like purpose and belonging. And a lot of them like had families, like closer-knit families. So it's possible that like the fatherlessness generation is more recent um as it is in the US too, like the past like a couple or few generations, you know. Yeah. Uh fatherlessness, especially in the US, hasn't always been a problem. Like it's it's increasing every generation. In the past few, it's been particularly bad. Um but in the long haul, it really just like will completely degrade a society.

School Closures And Church Support

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Yeah, yeah. I think uh, you know, I I don't think Mexico and Mexican culture is equivalent. It's not. Um, but when we were down in Mexico, that was one thing I remember like the first mission trip I was a part of down there, when we were really like laying the roots for what we were gonna do down there. The pastor Javier and like one dude who I don't I don't think he had a family. Just one dude would show up and sit in the church, other than like a few women and their children would come. And when we were working, one dude showed up from the community. This is in a rural community, this is Insenata, Mexico, big giant city. Um, and I think a lot of it was that the community hadn't seen the value there yet. And it was cool over time, every time we went back, there was more and more people and more and more men and more and more kids. Like, and I when I say kids, I mean like high school age that were willing to come and help out on the projects that we were doing. Um, and I remember the first time we had like contractors in Mexico. Um, and I think a lot of that though, culture-wise, is surrounding like they didn't see the value in doing that after work. Like they had their own jobs they were going to during the day when we were working and building things. And then as the church became much more of like the community saw a huge value in it, the the workers came around it. And that was the cool thing, right? Like, like you were saying, like for the first few years, outside of us, there was just really nothing Javier and his family could do to continue the projects we're doing. It was just him and his family, and they were having to run the church and the kids had to go to school, right? And so, like, but then there was started coming, like we'd come back and like a lot of work was done in the meantime while we're gone because the community saw the value in it. And I guess that's my kind of final question here. Like, what is the community's value of the church here in Jamaica? Because I don't hear too much about I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I don't really hear too many stories about the church's growth or how it's grown. And I'm wondering, like, in Jamaica, do they see like a church in their community? And is there like a strong like faith presence, or is there like a competing belief system with Christianity and they don't see a lot of value in the church as a part of the community? Because it I think it's very, you know, different across cultures on like if they're gonna place value in the local church, the local, and when I say church, the local Christian church, or if it's just there, but they have a different belief system that is more integral or culturally more popular.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

Yeah. Uh in in this one in particular, like the church plays a pretty big role because the people that are in that community, their families have been there for a long time. Um and there one thing I do find interesting is that with the men there and and the women as well, but more surprisingly, the men, is that there is a very high level of respect for the pastor and the church. I don't know if that's in all communities, or just this one, but there's a high level of respect there. Like there's like kind of an acknowledgement of the pastor as being like a father figure in in that community. Um now, how much people are willing to do to like help them out, not really sure. But in in a church setting, churches have always been a little bit more like heart-tugging for women than they are men. Yeah. Like even at our church, like it's the fact that there's even much of a like a tight-knit male community at our church is abnormal. Right. And so um I think that in some societies the family structure is really important, and then in some locations, the community structure is really important. And in these ones, there is very much so a community aspect. Everybody knows each other, everybody's very friendly to each other, like they all like acknowledge each other, um, like when walking on the streets, but the family units are really broken. Um not really, but they but they are broken, and and there's just a lot of like disorganization to it. Whereas, like I think in Mexico the family units are pretty well organized, and that's part of yeah, not only Hispanic, but like Hispanic, like Catholic like culture is that the family unit is really important. The women in those families are probably the ones that are more involved with the local church. Yeah, the men are out working primarily, but I don't know, but I feel like I see less of a communal aspect in Mexico than in some other places. Yeah. But the family structures are so much more intact. I think that's a fair assessment. Um, and again, I could be I could be wrong about that. Like I can't I can't say I've spent a great deal of time in smaller communities in in Mexico, but no matter what, the smaller the community, the more communal it is, regardless, right? That's why cities are just so like desensitizing, basically.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

The reason I just asked that is because you'd think with if the community is a Christian community invested in the church, you'd think then that would trickle down into the men having like understanding like the Christian value of you know the the fatherhood and like the role of the a man in the household and the expectations. And so that's why like I've always kind of scratched my head of like because I always hear like when people come back from these trips is how like the men are not involved, like the men are are leaving that community, and I just always kind of was like, that seems very opposite to me of if the men believe in the church and are Christian men, you'd think they'd stick around with their and like look after their kids.

Regrowth Timelines And Hard Months Ahead

SPEAKER_03 56:26

Well, I mean you have to consider too that similar to Hispanic communities and American communities, like the women are usually the ones that are more involved in the church. And there can be a church there, but if Christ is not the center point in a family unit, it is not going to override culture in a country. Um like that culture, that culture will dominate and take first priority. And so if the same thing has been happening for generations in men, which is uh like we see in a lot of communities here in the US as well, where the like men have a particular view of like work and families and like women, and there's not really much of a value on like if you impregnate somebody, you stick around, sort of thing, you know. Um, and so it's like the only thing that can change that dynamic is either a generational difference, which is a man being in the household and changing that point of view, which overrides that culture, or Christ doing that as well, right? Like there's so there are a lot of families, like the pastor himself seemingly don't know 100%, but seems like he grew up probably in an intact family, and then he himself did the same thing. And then some of the men that are there too that do do that, like do stick around, do have intact families and are married and with kids and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

So there are men a part of the church that have like begun to change culturally and like past like change the culture.

SPEAKER_03 58:03

Yeah, the first time that I was there, I saw them. This time we I didn't see them. Um, I saw the younger men there, but not not so much the older men.

SPEAKER_01 58:12

Um which it is a post-disaster scenario, so they might be working at a lot of other stuff too.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Um so yeah, it it really takes either Christ or an intact family for the next generation of kids or men to see it differently than their fathers did. Um and so that's what that's why it's like generations of people separate from Christ, they don't get better, they get progressively worse. Yeah, um, and we see that here too. Uh, and they just go in different directions. But the culture culture is just so strong outside of the presence of Christ in families and communities that like it takes a lot to override what people are doing consistently. And um that unfortunately like is one of like fatherlessness, like is a generational problem.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

Um, and it gets worse.

SPEAKER_01 59:08

Yeah. Well, I kind of want to keep this keep this episode just focused on this. So I think that's you know, a pretty good summary of the trip and all that. I guess if there's anything else, you know, Dean, that you kind of want to have as like final thoughts or anything like that, you know, give you the floor for anything else you want to say. No pressure.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

Yeah, no, I think the the I think the only thing I've got is that I do believe that um like God is trying to like raise up a generation of men that have been largely absent for a few generations now. Um I don't really know entirely what that looks like, but uh men kind of like swung in this like really like kind of like post post-World War II, like hardened, like hardened, like classic man sort of thing to like the the generation of dads and parents that were like really damaged, um like by like either like kind of um tyrannical almost, uh, and then now you've got this like kind of fresh generation of men and women as well that have a really open view of Christ and the church. Uh, and those ones God is like using very heavily right now. Like they're really, in my opinion, kind of like they have these untainted views of Christ.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

Like the pendulum swinging the other direction.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:46

The pendulum is swinging big time.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

Um that's that's encouraging.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:49

Yeah, and it's it's all it's all over the world that's that that's happening, I would say. Like you see it here in the States as well. Um, it seemed like you kind of hear this a little bit here and there, but that like the church in the US is uh shrinking in size, right? And that might be church attendance, but that's not I don't believe that that's an accurate representation of what it actually looks like here in the states. Like the biggest underground churches in the world are in uh Iran and China, which are like two of the places where they're not allowed to be, right? Yeah, um, and those populations in those countries of Christians are probably bigger than they are in the US, but the US is largely delayed in its movements because we kind of have a crappy canvas to be working with. Um so God is doing big things in the US. The church is not dying in the US, it's just taking time to do it. And in a lot of the surrounding areas, like God is doing a lot of things in the younger generation of men, including in in in Jamaica as well. Um, but it'll be pretty interesting to see.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:05

Appreciate it, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

Pat, you got any final thoughts? Till next time, folks.