From Minnesota To Caracas: Power, Policing, And Consequence

Sirens, shouting, and a trigger pulled in under a second. We start with the Minnesota shooting involving an ICE agent and a protest scene that escalated into tragedy, unpacking why “legally justified” might not always mean “necessary” and how stress, tunnel vision, and training gaps can turn a chaotic minute into a lifetime of fallout. 

Then we widen the lens to Venezuela, where a cinematic extraction of Nicolás Maduro revealed the quieter logic of power: oil reserves, gold stores, and the geopolitics of BRICS. We cut through “40 civilians killed” headlines, explain why casualty categories get politicized, and look at the real question—who controls resources that could reshape currency, energy security, and the balance of influence in the Americas? Lessons from Iraq loom large: fast wins collapse when institutions are shattered. If stability comes, it will be earned through careful diplomacy, targeted support, and the restraint to avoid a long insurgency while keeping adversaries away from our doorstep.

We end on the ground, with handmade gifts, better optics, and a Les Mis moment that sticks—a pair of candlesticks as a promise to keep choosing mercy even when it’s hard. That’s the tension we live in: policy and principle, safety and sovereignty, headlines and human beings.

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Transcript

Cold Open And January Check-In

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Finally wrapped cigar that's been darkened. A cigar that's like been the darkened leaf. The Maduro.

Minnesota ICE Shooting: First Reactions

Training, Tunnel Vision, And Use Of Force

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Oh. I didn't know there was a cigar called the Maduro. Um yeah, no, there's a there's a lot to talk about. Uh yo, what's up? Uh welcome, Ken, to the Mick and Pat show in January 2026. Uh, we're here after the holidays, and we are gonna just do some flyover, high-level, you know, uh acknowledgement and responses to kind of what's been going on because it's been a spicy January, you know, though it kind of makes sense. Like happy January 6th, everybody. Exactly. Yeah, it was like uh what four years ago now? No, six years ago now. Uh that's crazy how time flies. Yeah, six. Yeah, wow. Yeah, um, but something you know happened today. There was a uh a woman who was shot and killed by an ICE agent in Minnesota. And uh there's a lot of uh takes on what happened and a lot of camera angles, and you know, there's a lot of opinions. Um, a lot of opinions from people who have never been in the shoes of that woman or that ice agent. Um, a lot of people who have never even remotely been close to scenarios as stressful as that. I think there's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking that could be done, and ultimately uh bad decisions were made, and unfortunately, someone's dead now. Um, I would not be surprised if that ice agent ends up quitting, you know, especially now with his face getting out there and people doxing him and saying they should be, you know, uh what is it, retribution killings for her death. And also, like that woman now, her partner and her daughter. Oh, I guess I don't know if it's her daughter. I know she has a kid. They said she was a mom. But now, like, they gotta, that family's gotta deal without her. It's very sad. Um, and I certainly don't rejoice in anyone's death or you know, anyone's uh suffering like that. That family's gonna have an awful, awful time. Um, and you know, my prayers go out to them. And uh my prayers also go out to the family of that ice agent because they're about to go through a living hell of getting doxxed and people telling them they're gonna kill them and stuff like that. So it's it's a pretty sad situation all around. Um if you think you know what should have been done and what should not have done been done, uh maybe become an ice agent, ice agent so it doesn't happen again. I don't know what to tell all the people who are, you know, keyboard warriors. But I would say as someone who's been in some pretty like fast-paced decision scenarios where you know a car driving towards me or you know, having to draw a gun on someone, like I will say that it is incredibly difficult to not have tunnel vision in those scenarios, and you are going to make mistakes. The hope is that you've been trained well enough that the mistakes are minimal, and at the end of the day, you make the right call and the right decision. Um I think that's really all I gotta say about like the actual incident uh itself. I don't know about you, Pat, if there's anything you want to add to it.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

I think it's it was avoidable from all sides, yeah, all parties. You know, and so is uh um poor training, poor de-escalation for some of the officers, uh ICE agents. And I will say we haven't seen the video leading up to that uh encounter, so we don't really know what was going on, you know, uh before it happened. Um really everything starts like basically 10 to 15 seconds before you know she is uh shot. And so but the you know uh it's really one of the things it's a it's a matter of big time matter perspective from one person's perspective. Um they were uh about to be ran over by a car and they pulled their gun and fired, right? From another perspective, it's um this person was just trying to leave and got shot for it, you know. Yeah, and uh um it I think as like and we'll see. I wonder like I don't know if any of these body cam footage will ever come out.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Do are they wearing body cams? Um I don't think a lot of federal agencies mandate body cams.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

I don't know if they have the cams on, which in this case could save this guy's butt or not, depending on which I don't think he has a camera on as far as like what happened or not, but or it could could prove, you know, that he also was, you know, uh I I guess here's what I'll say. I think that he was within his rights as a law enforcement officer to do what he did, um, whether you agree with that or not. But I don't think he necessarily had to do what he did. Um, and in her situation, I think that um, you know, I don't know her intention or uh what was going on, as far as if was her intention to hurt him, was her intention to stir the pot there, or was her intention just to leave the situation and she was panicked, doesn't know what's going on. You know, did she see a guy in front of her or not? I don't know. You know, and when she started pulling off, I think that there's um ultimately did she comply with the officers? No. And so like the few simple if if if if a few things had just gone a little differently, would have been a totally different situation. If she'd complied, did what they said, she'd be alive.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

If he hadn't stood in front of a fucking car.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

If he had done it, if he had if he had operated in training correctly, which is to you know, not stand in front of because that what they're doing is they're calling it a deadly weapon. One person labeled it like a a terrorist attack with a deadly weapon, which is the vehicle being yeah, well, and this that's to be fair, that is also the Supreme Court's ruling, right?

Legality Versus Necessity In Deadly Encounters

SPEAKER_02 7:19

But that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Yeah, if but so in this case, so I'm saying, yes, okay, if you're calling it a deadly weapon, you stood in front of it, right? So it's like it's the same thing as if so it's like if someone's pointing a gun and you walk, would you walk in front of it if you think that person's gonna shoot? It's like no, so if you want to define it as a deadly weapon, that's okay, you can, but then you should be maneuvering on it. Yeah, and so and it this all have it's this is one of things where everything happened in a matter of seconds.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yeah, yeah, and I think like all the different camera angles, like we were just watching them and going over them, but like it's definitely I think a uh there's an argument to be made that she may not have seen him while he was coming from around the back of the vehicle to try to like you know get around to the front of it, and she may have been like distracted by the other uh agents before pulling forward, which is then like you know, when she was shot. All that said, Pat, you're a boot looker for defending him or the agency at all in any way. Just kidding. But no, like, but that is the argument of anyone, right? It's like it this is kind of the same thing where like um, you know, and anytime you try to use experience of like having actually been there done that, it's just seen as like, oh, you're just a bootlicker. Like, and it's like you know what? I there's a lot of things I don't like that ICE is doing and how they're doing it, right? But also, like, I could tell you, like, there's no way in his shoes he would have known if that car was turning towards him or away from him when she started accelerating, and he made the decision to draw his gun and shoot her, which unfortunately is legally justified in this scenario due to like the context of it, which means he's not gonna face you know uh legal uh criminal punishment and uh the only consequences maybe he gets like he faces civil civil you know indictment or something like that, um, or the consequences of like mob justice, right? Which it's one of those things where should it have happened at all? No. Is it wrong that it happened? I think there's a lot of things that are wrong that happened, like that happen all the time. That like I can look at and be like, legally, no one did anything wrong, or like legally they they didn't do anything wrong. That officer didn't, that agent. But should it have happened at all? No, shouldn't he should have been smart, he should have done his training, he should have not stood in front of a fucking car, he should have not walked around from behind the car because if he had been back there when she reversed, he'd have gone down on the pavement and it then he walked to be in front of the car. Not a good idea. No, I don't know if ICE is training their agents to try to stand in front of vehicles to stop them, but I do know from my law enforcement experience, like you know, our officers were trained not to stand in front of vehicles. Like, dude, like you're not stopping a car. Like you're not, dude. It's a it's a anywhere from one-ton to four-ton vehicle that is gonna like smatter you over the ground.

De‑Escalation Gaps In Federal Policing

SPEAKER_03 12:03

And we're seeing also, I mean, uh in the footage leading up to it, there's it's icy road. Um, cars are kind of packed up. Some people are trying to get around, she's letting people through, and then she's pulling forward, you know, and then she's it blocked in by some by ice vehicles, and it's like, did she even know what was going on at all? I don't know. And and that's that's why, you know, and and where why were they there? Were they there harassing ice agents, whatever? I don't know. Um, is it legal to do that? Yeah, it's within your rights to protest them, you know, whatever, but you can't you can't you can't obstruct, you can't obstruct uh investigations, but you can't obstruct the road, but you can protest, you can you can protest them, right? You can protest what they're doing, but you can't interfere. But if it's being there's a car that's having trouble getting going, she waves them around them. It's like, oh, we're you know, and I'm just I'm just going from her perspective here, what potentially knows it like if it was completely innocent, or even if she was like, I don't like ice, but like I'm not really trying to kill someone, I'm not trying to run over somebody right now. That's like, oh, wave this person around, this is happening. It's chaotic. If you hear there's like there's people blowing whistles, there's there's it's like it's like there's a lot of commotion, there's just chaos going on, there's people yelling, get the fuck out of the car, there's like all this stuff going on, and it's like I'm just getting out of here. Yeah, or what's the what happened? I don't know. Did the guy have time to get around the vehicle in time? Yes, because he did. And you know, but that being said, you know, it's like, and if your training is to, it's hard if you're if if the training that did lock in for him was when someone comes at you with a vehicle, you draw and shoot. And so as he's drawing and shooting and moving around, he's drawing, moving to the side and shooting, that's all being that all got executed in it was like one point.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Not even a second. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Like it the the moment he from pole holster, step, sidestep, three shots. It was a less than a second. It was fast. It's just like, it's just shitty. And just like the you know, and and there's a bigger conversation of should they even be in that neighborhood in the first place? I don't know, whatever. But taking this, whatever happened, it's just like uh it is unfortunate.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yeah, and it's one of those things too, like you do wonder like, well, what was the instigating event because her partner was out of the vehicle talking to that agent?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

And I guess it's still I'm still assuming that's who that's that's who this person's been called, and that's who it seems this person is, you know. Yeah. Um, yeah, she was out of the vehicle talking to him, phone in his face, his phone was in her face, or something was in his hand, you know. I I don't we don't know what was going on before that. And yeah, you know, was you know, did this guy's ego get attacked a few too many times? And did he, you know, what what where did he also lose his own emotional control in this in this game? You know, because we were talking about before too, something that's important for I think people to think about is and something important for us to change in our in a probably our federal government system, uh, policing is that most federal uh policing agencies, their guys don't do anything ever.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

They never they never have to deal with like truly de-escalating someone. Like the people who get the most actual experience of training for de-escalating at a federal level are definitely probably gonna be Marshal Service and FBI because FBI is dealing with like actual hostage rescue team stuff.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

And even then on a daily basis, how often is a is an FBI agent going to somebody who's at a domestic violence case, having to talk them down, de-escalate, get everybody out alive, make the right decision with their own firearm, their own safety, the safety of those around them. You know, so the these guys, these ice agents, we don't know the levels of training or what they do or how often they do it. They've been getting a lot of experience lately, but I have not seen um good examples of um uh like healthy de-escalation practices. And I'm not even like I'm not a hardcore de-escalation fan. Like, you know, I'm not I don't think that everybody needs a social worker and a vest with them. Yeah, yeah, you know, whatever. Um, I do think that uh most situations can be de-escalated.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

And so it's like the I mean they and they definitely like those agents in the video, like they got out of that car hot, not not looking to de-escalate, they got out looking to control the situation, which is like that's again like something that like I I know we went over and over again in our training, and then like experientially, like I know like did not doesn't work, like especially like I tell you what, every time I came out hot, uh storming into a pod full of inmates solo, dude, I did not get the response I want. Right. But like when I came in with control and identified like a single individual and was not like you know trying to instigate or accelerate the situation, right? Right, but was like trying to de-escalate it and get them to be like one-on-one with me, way better responses, like not just from the individual, but like from the environment, right? And so like the way they got out of that car came to me came off really to me like they didn't understand what was going on, and they were just like fed up.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

And they were, yeah, they were in yeah, did they think that their guy they was this their target? What's going on? This car stopped, like, and maybe some of the stuff will come out. But I think and I I'm wondering, like, what would I do? And I'd say, like, uh, I think I'd probably comply, but in a situation where oh, I'll just say that's it's let's say it's a semi-chaotic situation, and and this isn't I don't know what happened before. If a car comes up to you, stops, two guys get out. If it happens this fast, car comes up to you, stops, two guys get out, yell, get out of the fucking car, get out of the fucking car. I I might punch the pedal. Like, like, like just like panic. Like you see two guys and like I don't know what I I think that because I've thought through these things, I would put my hands up and go, you know, just put my hands up, foot off the wheel, you know, can I turn off my car? But um, if I never thought through situations or never been in this, what would my just instinct be? It might be get out of here, you know? Yeah.

Parallels To January 6 And Ethics

Maduro’s Capture: Operation And Casualty Claims

SPEAKER_02 18:15

And uh um, I mean it, you know, also like like you said, like even if you had no experience in it, it's that still might be your reaction. Um I mean, I certainly remember the first time I got pulled over, my first reaction was do I speed up? Do I can I get away from this? Should I yeah, and uh, you know, like in the fear, the fear there at the back of your brain. Anyways, all that said, one thing that I did see um that I thought, you know, was interesting is six years later, the left is kind of getting their January 6th today. You know, this is like a public protesting, and someone uh who is perceived to be innocent on the left is unjustly shot by law enforcement. And six years ago, there's the uh Capitol protests and then uh riot, and Ashley Babbitt was there, and she was technically breaking the law. Uh she was trespassing, and she was also, you know, um trying to get into a session of Congress, and she was shot by law enforcement that was deemed justified and excused. Uh, and like I can look at both of those and be like, yeah, like both in both cases, the the law enforcement officer was justified. They shouldn't have shot though. Like, yeah, legally they're justified, but ethically they probably shouldn't have done it. Uh and I would probably bet that I'm gonna make a bet here that this woman who was shot and killed Renee is her name, um that she was breaking the law as well. I I would bet my I would bet my house that she was there intentionally obstructing uh ice on that street and then trying to obstruct what they were doing uh you know and where they were going. Um does she deserve to be shot for it? In no way, shape, or form. Did Ashley Babbitt deserve to be shot even though she was intentionally breaking the law by trying to enter enter a current session of Congress and trespassing? No, she didn't. But here we are with like pretty much the same thing, the paradigm on both sides. Um, and it's gonna be used and excused over and over and over, no matter where you go. Um and like it, it's just it's a crazy thing, right? Like we we see like essentially like the same parallel almost exactly six years later. Technically, because of Leapier, it is exactly six years later. Um but uh sad stuff. Um, I don't want anybody die. It's a sad thing. I think a lot of I think a lot of people on the left are expecting people on the right to like meme and mock her and call her names like the way uh the left did Charlie Kirk. And so far I've been encouraged to not see that happening. I've definitely seen a lot of people like being kind of careless, being like, well, she shouldn't have she should have been like she should have obeyed them or not been there in the first place. And I think that's kind of a cold take. Um, but I've been encouraged to not see like people being in like like no one's rejoicing that this woman was shot, at least not that I've seen, right? Um and I I kind of always encourage people, whether you're on the left or right, to just take the high ground and not like belittle someone's uh death, um, no matter if you disagreed with them politically or not. But anyways, so that was uh that just happened. Happened today, and uh very tragic. But I did want to mention like the parallels between that and January 6th, and um yeah, just very interesting. Um not too long ago. Someone woke up in the morning to a very, very uncomfortable presence in their bed. And uh Maduro.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

The boogeyman.

Geopolitics: Oil, Gold, BRICS, And Strategy

SPEAKER_02 22:29

Yeah, and I mean everyone here, if you're listening to this episode, you've heard about it, right? Unless you're like living under a rock in the woods. Um, but Maduro was extradited and brought to the U.S. for trial. Um on uh if I remember correctly, I'm trying to remember the exact charges, but it wasn't like war crimes, right? Because we're not at war with him. Um, but if I remember correctly, it was uh trafficking of narcotics into the United States, as well as um some kind of like uh it's like the charge you get for destroying US currency. It's like defacing American property. I don't know. It's it sounded like it was honestly it was really gay. Like they'll charge what was like I was like really that's like what you're gonna charge him with after we just did that insane raid. Like that seems uh not good. Um all that said, uh wow, did that look like a Call of Duty cutscene or not? Like that was have you seen the footage? I've seen some of it, but not much. Oh my gosh, dude, watching the fucking Chinooks and Ospreys flying over and they're backlit by the explosions. I was like, damn, this is straight up Call of Duty. This is you know, and like the Venezuelan guys just speaking Spanish recording on his phone. And you just see the silhouettes of these potatoes flying across the skyline lit up by explosions and fires. Um, but it was an insanely uh precise operation. Um I mean it made it made our effort of the Bay of Pigs look like JV shit, which the Bay of Pigs was a total utter failure. Um, but like this was like I think what everyone thought the Bay of Pigs was going to be. I mean, they did it flawlessly, and someone might be saying, like, well, it wasn't flawlessly because currently the body count is 40 uh civilians dead. And it's like, well, here's the thing, actually. Don't believe just headlines. Actually, do your reading and research. Yes, technically speaking, 40 civilians are dead. Of the those 40 civilians, though, are Venezuelan military officers and uh two dozen 24 Cuban officers. So, yes, 40 civilians, true, they are civilians of a nation. Hell, the Taliban are civilians of a nation. You know, terrorists are civilians of a nation. You could say every terrorist killed is a civilian killed, right? But um you could say when we were at war with Germany and we killed Nazis, we killed German civilians because technically all military personnel are also civilians of the nation they serve in. Um except for the French Foreign Legionnaires. I guess that's a that's a distinction I should say. But um that's just like that's what's being toted is like 40 civilians dead. That's the body count, and there's actually no verification of that being like the true number. Everything I've read online is saying like uh like the that essentially the death count is made up exclusively of military personnel from either Cuba or Venezuela. There is there is one story I saw that is unverified of a woman who was believed to have died because she was near one of the towers that got bombed, and her daughter called family saying, I think we I think we're under attack, I don't know who's bombing us. But when I dug into it more, I couldn't find anything to validate the quote unquote story. So I will say anyone, you know, any civilian casualties, non-military who died in this, that is a tragedy. And uh there, I don't think there's an excuse for it. Like I think those families should be compensated and should, you know, the the US if they killed innocents in this, then they, you know, should should right that as best as they can. Um I will also say though, I'm not gonna pretend that war isn't war and nations aren't nations, and that if you're in the Venezuelan and Cuban military, and American ducks a strike to uh get your your president out, um, you're kind of fair game. That's just kind of the price. Like, would anyone lose sleep? Would we be really saying like those Secret Service agents died when you know Russia came and got Trump? Like that wasn't that wasn't fair. We better know, like that that's their job.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

Like and so um Yeah, it's like is it sad or is it tragic or is it gross? Yes, is it a part is it is it the way it is? Yeah, is the way it is.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Also, everything is actually starting to point towards Maduro uh took a plea deal with the US because he was expecting his own country to coup de gras him.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

So it's likely that Maduro told the U.S. of what targets to strike as part of the extradition deal, and that Maduro did that to get a better plea in court here, as well as not being uh assassinated by an overthrow of his own like agencies and his own people. Um, so there's a good chance that like those deaths are just also on Maduro. I'll say he looks happy in every photo I've seen. Yeah, he doesn't look bummed. He gave some thumbs up from what I saw from uh a verified non-AI photo. He was coming off the plane and was giving some thumbs up. Um and his wife's here too. They got her out and over here, which, you know, I think makes sense. Like, I don't I'm not one to say we should be giving dictators like, you know, the like Disneyland treatment, but I do think the humane thing to do is if you get the dictator out, you also need to get his wife and kids out. Because those who wish now to exact vengeance and get that like uh cathartic relief of revenge against the force oppressing them, they will kill that woman and they will kill any members of his family they can find. You know what I mean? So it I think it's the humane thing to do to get his family out um as much as possible, right? Uh does that make sense what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Oh, yeah, it does. It does.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Um, I do think that he should face charges. I do hope we aren't making just like a plea deal with him and he doesn't just get to live under an alias in like Montana somewhere. Watch him just be living in like Upper Peninsula, Michigan after some plastic surgery and witness protection. Just getting to hunt ducks every day and hang out. Yeah, I honestly like though, like the more I read about it, the more I'm like, damn, that's that's exactly what this fucker did. This dude just it took a deal, uh, and he's gonna get he's gonna get you know marched through the media and he's gonna have court, and then we're gonna be like, he's going to jail, and then they're gonna be like, all right, your witness protection. I don't know. What what are your thoughts uh of the whole thing?

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Yeah, I think I mean because someone was asking me about this, they were like, you know, um, do you think this was a good thing, a bad move, a good move, whatever?

SPEAKER_02 30:14

And I was just like, I will I will say just so you know, I am in support of it. Um, and I am in support of it from multiple reasons. I am not in support of like a prolonged conflict with Venezuela, um, but I am in support of like the operation that was done for multiple reasons.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

I and I I'll go into those later, but I just want you to know for sure because I think that um well it's I'll say this too. Like, do I think that there's ulterior motives to this? Do I think it like am I I think this was a message? This this was a this was a way to put your big old ding dong on the table and say Putin, Z, you know, everybody, everybody out there, we can pull you from your bed whenever we want to. We can come pull you from your bed, just so you know. So we are dominant, we are the big dog, and that's you know, this is this is Trump 101, right? Be the big dog, right? And so I I I do think, you know, was this to um liberate the Venezuelan common man? Was this to um bring uh peace and stability to the region? No. Here's the deal. Yeah, um, there's a butt ton of oil there, and we don't want China to have it.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

More gold than in all of Africa.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

And so um the the things that um I'm gonna pull up to a 30,000-foot view and the the plight of you know the common man, you know, not gonna get into that right now. I'm gonna go, uh, like you're saying, oil and gold. We don't want China to have access to that. Um this is a socialist country, which as Americans, we're not fans of that either. So we need to control those things. And so the from a strategic standpoint, um we need to we need to control that stuff. We China is building bridges and roads and infrastructure all over South America, all over Africa, all over the place. We are not doing that because we are we have to pretend like we're not an empire anymore. We have to pretend that we're anti-imperialism. Yeah. And unfortunately, right or wrong, we are an imperialistic country. Um, and we've done it through more of um the clandestine. The clandestine, I'd say like the through clandestine exercises, through, you know, bank accounts and pens and and and you know uh subsidizing different countries or whatever, you know, like um allegiances, um, not necessarily through, you know, we're not just going border to border, taking more territory, but we do control areas in the world. And so um just speaking as an American, going pretty plain on like the game of uh, you know, uh risk. Risk is the big all-war board game, right? Yeah, yeah. So like in the game of risk as an American, yeah. Take the don't let China have this, don't let Russia have this. Um and uh and then but so that that's the strategic pieces there. The other big pieces are here's the deal. Um Venezuela plays a huge part in the influx of immigration, illegal immigration in this country because narcotics, fentanyl. To get into the plight of man, of the common man, people are leaving that place, the surrounding areas, the surrounding countries, coming up through the dang most dangerous one, the Darien Gap, the most dangerous place in the world to cross through as an individual. People are in such dire straits, they will they will risk going through that, going through the jungle to come to where we are. Yeah, and they'll not only risk their life there, they'll also enter here. They know they're doing it illegally, they know the risks, they're taking the risks. And I can't say that I wouldn't do that if I was one of them.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Oh, yeah, for sure. I would do it.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

And so I here's here's the thing the duality of man, and like I don't say that as a joke, you can be uh against illegal immigration while also admitting you would do the same thing in their shoes.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Right. Right. And so yeah, and and so so with the immigration piece and influx and the the the unstable area that that has been, um the fact that you know he has um they call themselves a democracy, but he has um denied election results and not let other people into power. He is a dictator. Um I know someone from who like left Venezuela as a kid who is like who's actually they are like they are in support of this, they think it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Same and and her my friend her and her mom were able to flee. And I remember her stories and her mom's stories about what it was like. And uh I know they're not I know she's not like super pro like any further action, but like it it was kind of like they don't they didn't care who got rid of Maduro.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Yeah, someone let him out. Anyone do it. And and so and and those people aren't blind to what this is either. They know that it's not for them. They know that it's it's a it's a big uh global political power play maneuver, yeah, but they're hoping to benefit from it, and they're hoping to see good things come from it. Um then the the final point of why I'm in support of it would be that the So you are okay. The drug was the thing you hadn't said yet. The drug or the fentanyl. Um the the the fentanyl drugs that come into this country from them, the they they support cartels, they support, they support the system, they are a major hub for this stuff, and they also, yeah, and and and some people would say, no, you're wrong, it's more cocaine. Yes, also it is cocaine. Also, everything's getting laced with fentanyl in the right now. So, like yeah, they are a cartel power player and a backer um of cartels in Mexico. They are uh aligned with Hamas, Hezbollah, Cartels, um, China, these places that are not our friends. And so I do think that in the short term and then going into the long term, we have to be careful. People talked about being worried about getting drugged into another um uh another situation like Afghanistan, Iraq, where it's a 20-year world police issue trying to change stuff, um, not being able to get out of there in time. And people keep pointing to that, but they aren't they they keep failing to to mention um they keep saying this because the last time we went in there it was this long. Yes, guess what? No one's talking about the Gulf War. What was that? That was we got in there, huge show of force, knocked them back. Granada, you know, yeah, things like Granada as well, like you know, we take an airfield, we take over Panama, all these things. Like you you take over, and it it's a fast violence of action. And in the short term, is there civil unrest? Is there upheaval? Yes, yes, there's machine gun fire all over Caracas. Well, yeah, because the place is riddled with gangsters and people who who are vying for power now, they're gonna take advantage. Anytime there's a power vacuum, something's gonna rise up to fill it. Yep, and now these people are gonna have to get their shit together and govern themselves well, clean out the trash, and they have an opportunity with this ousted dictator to position themselves well. Now, where America can mess up, just like we did in Iraq, when we initial invasion of Iraq was super successful, we thought the war was over in like 2003.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Well, it was it was a lot of people don't know that it was done in under three days.

Sovereignty, Morality, And Realpolitik

SPEAKER_03 37:59

Yeah, it was it was it was a it was it was a very successful invasion. But then where we failed, and hopefully we learned our lessons from it, is that we um disbanded the Bath Party and we demilitarized them, and uh we basically left all these people without jobs, and their only job is to be a soldier. So, what do they do? They're gonna go fight for the other side. So um you have to be careful with how you install the next person in power, um, and be careful with um how you there is still a government and a country that has to be run. Um, and so hopefully we learned lessons from Iraq, and we we don't need to turn them into America, they can do their own thing, but um uh and so our involvement there has to be very um meticulous now, not heavy-handed, um, but firm enough to shape them into what we want and need. And um, you know, in the sh like I say, in the short term, there is gonna be some unrest, some upheaval, and hopefully it works itself out, and we don't have to involve ourselves overly, and we uh do it in a way that is successful. These things are never clean, they're always messy. Yeah, so but hopefully the ultimate outcome can be eventually a success. Because I saw a reporter who was like it was like day three or four after it happened, and they're like, I think it was this morning or whatever, and they're like like um, you know, basically they were saying, you know, this is all gone. You know, basically everything's in shambles, the government's falling apart, you know, this is not what uh what they the outcome they thought it was gonna be. You know, people are waking up this morning in fear and terror, and it's like you haven't even let the dust settle on this thing yet. You haven't even cleaned up like the the buildings yet. Like this is so just you gotta take a beat, take a second, and um, we're gonna see where it shakes out to. Hopefully it's not a long-term conflict. I don't think there's any reason to go to war with Venezuela. No, no, well, there's no reason to go to war with them. And you could say that this is a foolish thing to say, because tech-wise, Afghanistan was in the same situation, but like their military, their technology, they don't have it, man. We can we will just and drill drone them, whatever. We got all this stuff. They know that they know that they're screwed if they mess with us. And now, if we try to go in there and govern them, then yes, we will face an insurgency. So it has to be done from afar now and diplomat and through diplomacy, similar to the uh strike we did in Iran on the nuclear site, which I haven't followed up on that lately, and people are kind of like, yeah, that wasn't as big a success as we thought it was.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Or like the nukes all got moved out, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Yeah, but at the same time, it's we you get in there, you strike, you pull back, and now you use it and all politics is politics and war are the same thing. Politics is war without bloodshed, and war is politics without with you know, with bloodshed. It's it's all the same thing, it's just some different levels of escalation. So now it needs to be done through diplomacy. Um, and yes, like unlocking oil and things for people, like if we can improve their situation there of the common people, it is going to become successful. If people all of a sudden have bread in their basket, that's all that most people want. Yeah. And so if you if it can be done well, I think that it can be a good thing for the common people as an American who it doesn't want China on our doorstep or having access to all those that uh wealth, I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Yeah, I mean I I agree with everything you said. Um, you know, I I hold that where I am at today in the like where I live, I live in the US. And Venezuela is essentially equivalent to like Cuba in the 70s, uh, 60s, 70s, in that it was like, you know, any antagonistic force that holds a foothold there, it can launch an aerial invasion or strike within 30 minutes onto the US. So of course, I don't want Venezuela to be buddy buddy with uh those who wish harm to the US. However, I can also view this just from the context of like ethically morality, whatever, right? And say is it wrong that this happens? Yeah, it's wrong. This shouldn't have to happen. It's wrong and it sucks. Like, I don't think it's a good thing. I think I think it it benefits me. And I, yes, I will say, like, as an American, I would rather this occur than China or Russia get a foothold there and set up a base of operations and a and a control of the resources there. Um, especially because I don't know how many people are following this, but like BRICS is a uh new alliance of nations developing their own currency system, uh, similar to like the Euro for the European Union, where it's Brazil, Russia, um China?

SPEAKER_03 43:20

It's Brazil, China, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, Iran, Russia, South Africa, South Africa, and the United Arab Emirates. Kind of surprised at the South Africa.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

I thought the I stood for something. Um, I thought, because I thought the original four was like Brazil, Russia, India, China.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Yeah.

Hard Pivot: Best Christmas Gifts

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Um, but the whole thing is that they're trying to build a currency backed by gold rather than fiat. And so they they over the last decade have acquired a ton of the world's gold. And the only place with more gold than what they have currently is Venezuela. And Venezuela's got it in the ground and in the sea floor, owned in like the you know, by Venezuelan waters, um, as well as oil. And so I don't want them do like getting a hold of that resource because it will destabilize the U.S. more so. And so I am pro us having a uh uh somewhat control over who has access to that. I don't think the U.S. should go in there and take that oil, take that gold. I get we've uh we've already seized several of the tankers trying to escape and flee to Russia. We've already done it. We've got them. We have already uh taken control, apparently, of some of the oil fields on the ground in refineries. I don't know like what that looks like, if that just means like we've confirmed those who are running it in the Venezuelan government are are like thumbs up, yes, we're we're not gonna give it to China, right? Or if like we have actual like from what I understand, we have no military currently on the ground in Venezuela. Like they were there, but there's none there anymore. Um just the CIA, just the CIA, yeah. And so it's one of those things like I think I think those are Venezuela's resources. I think the government of Venezuela should now have a uh, you know, ideally a uh democratic republic, and that they should have those resources and utilize them and become a major power and self-sufficient. And I would love for the U.S. to have a contract with them that says, like, yeah, we'll sell you some of our oil and gold, but it's ours, you know, it's Venezuelans. And so I do think that I can have that opinion while also being objectively looking at like, man, it it's sad that this happens in the world. It's sad that like this action has to be done, because if we don't do it, then someone else is going to come in there and do it, and there's likely gonna be antagonistic forces that is gonna make our life harder. And so, is it wrong? Yeah, but there's a lot of wrong things in the world that at the end of the day you have to accept are for your benefit as a citizen of the U.S. Um, you can disagree with them and wish that they didn't happen, but you also have to acknowledge that if the US wasn't gonna do it, someone else would, and it would be making your life worse. So I will say my main point with this whole thing is that it was kind of crazy. There's a movie, I can't remember what the movie was, uh, but John Krasinski's in it. And he's providing a lecture. And I don't know if it's to college students or if it's to like uh you know military advisory panel.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

It's probably Jack Ryan. Maybe oh yeah, I think it was Jack Ryan. He's a professor and he's probably speaking to agents or or club.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

He's a teacher, he's a professor and a CI agent, so he's but he he he outlines Venezuelan's importance and like a one-minute scene from the from the show or movie, and it's it's exactly like what we're talking about today. And it was back in 2019 of like, you know, essentially this nation has all this oil, has all this gold, and if this nation is in bed with our enemies, it is incredibly dangerous to the US. Um to the level it was if Cuba, you know, was in bed with Russia and Russian missile silos or Russian missile, not missile uh air bases were on the ground in Cuba.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

And if Cuba had this type of resource with as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

So all that said, um I do think it's good that Maduro's out of there. Um I do hope that Venezuela benefits and has its own independent government that yes ends up being an ally of ours. That said, at the end of this, if like the Venezuelan government decides, you know, whatever, whoever it is that they don't want to be an ally with the U.S. or closely tied to the U.S., but they also aren't getting in bed with our enemies, they should they have the they have the full right to do that. And honestly, Maduro had every right to do what he did, but he also like has the right to face the consequences of what he did, and this is the consequences. Um and I believe in the sovereignty of nations, but I also believe in it's fair when you face the consequences of your actions as a nation, right? So that's kind of I mean, that's where I'm not saying anything that you didn't already say, I'm just agreeing with it and emphasizing it more.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

Right. Yeah, because I mean, yeah, it and because the approach of yeah, this conversation is it's like, do I wish we could all just live our lives and get along and go on, you know? Yeah, of course. Also, it's like, so yeah, so and as as a believer and a Christian, it's like I have to play as a as a Christian, a believer, and as a human with flesh and blood that has to exist in this plane, which is the reality of Earth. I live here and uh and the human condition, it's like this is the way it goes. Yeah, you know, this is what you know, and so you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Yeah. So but anyways, it was pretty crazy stuff. Those those are like the two big things that occurred, um, I think, you know, since the new year. Um I do want to pivot. All right, complete 180. Alright. What was your favorite Christmas gift you got? Let's just pivot to just let's just let's step out of the world and into our into our families. You know, our small, like our actual real lives that we spend engaging in. Um, dude, what was your favorite gift you got? And what was the favorite gift you gave?

Hunting Gear, Optics, And Field Skills

SPEAKER_03 50:24

Alright. I'm gonna have to think about the one I got. The one I got. Because, you know, I'm so I'll say right now I am I'm saving for a spotting scope. Um yeah, and I'm the one I'm gonna get's like in the thousand dollar range, like maybe a little more. So it's like that's not necessarily something you throw on the old list. So I did acquire a lot of you know capital? Yeah, a lot of gift cards for shields. Exactly. So I a lot of capital for for shields and a uh and a potential pro deal as well. So um we'll see what we can do with that. So I'm almost there with the pro deal and the stuff I got. I'm like around the edge. Because on my last hunting trip this time around, I had a I was able to take a friend spotting scope, and it was game changer. I was about to say, I hate to use the word, but 60x bro. It was a game changer, and it's like 90% of the animals we spotted was because we had that, and and then also identifying and and like you know, really looking at it, just it's it was a huge thing to have with us.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

So um I mean the fact that a lot of them nowadays, like Vortex uses essentially the same mounting that uh rifle scopes do for uh a lot of thermal or NV stuff. It just goes on the back of your spotting scope. So there's a lot of spotting scope attachments that you can use for just like clicking on thermal there.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

And you can also throw your phone on, like like the phone attachments, so you like you're not straining your eyes, you can just look at this phone and see whatever. So that's kind of on the big the big uh you know ticket list. But that's not what you got. I know, it's not what I got though. And so the I'm trying, so now I'm now I'm just I'm an ungrateful sack of crap because I'm I'm trying to remember what the heck I think. What's your favorite?

SPEAKER_02 52:15

What's your favorite gift you gave?

SPEAKER_03 52:17

But the favorite gift I gave was um I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna pick two things. Okay, but but I got um I got my uh son, my older son, I got him some duck calls.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

And it's like we're we're still at this, you know, he's five years old, we're at this like phase where like Christmas is just awesome right now. Yeah you know, like I think he's gonna figure out the Santa thing in the next year to year and a half. Like he's he's gonna he's not gonna be one of those kids who's in like who's 13 and still like just not it. He's like he's already kind of like is wait a second, is I don't know about you know, why why Santa's wrapping paper than Santa's mommy and daddy's like grandma and and grandpa don't have a chimney, you know, or yeah, it's like whatever. So like um trying to figure out those things and so he's um but he just like stood out I and I was kind of like man like he's only five, like he should just have like a tonga truck and be playing with that. But I but I wanted to get him something that he could um that was like also useful and and something he could work on. And he just went outside with that thing and just was blasting on it for hours. And it was so awesome, and he just wanted to play this plays duck call so many. He was so excited that Santa got him a duck call. And then the other thing I got, I got for my younger son, and I got one for I got one for both the boys, is there was an awesome deal on these Vortex binoculars that came with a chest rig. Nice, and so it was like 70 bucks for binoculars and a chest rig. And they're like they're pretty good binoculars. Nice. And so, um, like you know, a chest rig is all the rage and hunting right now. If you don't have one, you're basically shouldn't even bring a gun out, you know. It's how you look cool. You look definitely look tactical and hunt cool with your chest rig on.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

But so the board You gotta have your like crossbody revolver holster. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

Yeah, all the stuff with it and all your gear, um, so that you can just fumble it and have your freaking A-TAC thing as well. Yeah. All of it. Which is actually business idea that I'm working on is a is a A-TAC that basically just a phone holder that clicks into universal chest rigs. Not I'd just say hunting chest rigs, because they're not, but if you made one that was for that, people would be into it.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

For sure, yeah. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

So now that I put that out there in the world, someone's gonna oh yeah, for sure. But um, so the boys took them out duck hunting, and it's and another reason like back to the spotting scope thing, also the reason I got the binoculars was because I hunted with a guy who was so good at spotting game. He would just like flash his binoculars up and just be like, Oh, there's one there. Oh, there's one there, there's one there. And I'm like looking, I'm like, I can't see anything. And he's like, Yep, there's three under that tree, a buck two does, and you're like, Yeah, he's like, and it's a three-point. You're like, what the hell? This guy's like eagle eye. So yeah, and he's that way, not from like natural talent or he's good, but like it's because he's spent so much time looking through them. So I was like, I'm gonna give my boys binoculars now and good ones that they like it stays in the hunting gear, it's not a toy. Yeah, and so I'm gonna go out duck hunting. It also gives them something to do, but they're just looking through the binoculars. They look super cute in their camo and their chest rigs, and that they're duck calls, and so um, that's definitely the the funnest gifts I got for the boys. Nice. Um, yeah, and so I think that um, you know, the I'm still trying to think of you might have to go with yours for a second. I'm gonna have to think through what you're talking about or what I got.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

My favorite gifts, uh, I think my favorite gift that I got um just sentimentally uh Billy Jean made all these keychain sewed trinkets. And they're they're they're like, you know, uh unique to each person. And mine is a little stegosaurus that she hand sewed. Oh nice. And I'm gonna put it uh probably just hanging from my mirror um in my car because I don't because it's like fabric and I don't want it to rip on my keys. Um, but then she also sewed me a pair of dinosaur pajamas. Which is, you know, I every time I go with her out to Joanne Fabrics or Hobby Lobby and we're looking at fabrics, I'm always like pointing out the dinosaur pattern ones. I'm like, this would be sick as a blanket, or this this would be sick as like pajama bottoms or whatever, right? So she did it. She made me a pair of nice pajama buttons. They got pockets, they got elastic in the waistband. Um, the only thing is they're super long because she's like, I don't know how long to make them. So we gotta hem them, but there it's just great. And I have already worn them a ton since I got them.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Already streaked them out.

DIY Terrain, Trips, And Thoughtful Gifting

SPEAKER_02 56:57

Yeah, it's just sentimentally like that one was really sweet and felt like very personal. Um, but then I also got like the cool gifts. Like I got a bunch of uh Dungeons and Dragons terrain. And the pain in the ass about like terrain for your tabletop, whether it's like Warhammer or Dungeons and Dragons or whatever, is that a lot of times it comes like just like not painted or and not and also not assembled. So you usually have to glue it together and then you have to paint it, and it's just a lot.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

And if you're not into the painting, it's not fun.

Les Mis Candlesticks And Service

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Well, I love to paint. Oh, yeah. And I mean, you I feel like you know that I paint minis. Billy Gene and I paint minis all the time, but dude, painting terrain is just a lot of paint, and it takes a lot longer before it looks good, like before it looks like not like uh 3D pint 3D printed stuff like right off the printer and kind of just doesn't blend on the table. There's this stuff called battle terrain. It's from these guys in the UK, and it's uh printed cardboard, like right, like and it's like you know, uh perforated in these like single cards, and it's also uh all printed in color already, with like you know, this I don't know, it's like the it's like uh not a vinyl sticker, but it's like a very smooth, glossy finish. But you just pop it out, and then they have all these guides online of like how to assemble it together. And I got like a bunch of them. I got a ton of them. And when you like start assembling it, you're like, oh, so the time invested to paint something that looks this good would be 40, 50 hours for the amount of buildings and like you know, I got I got like ruins, I got guard towers, I got Viking lodges and villages and stuff, and I got graveyards and sewers, all these awesome things and set pieces, and not only that, but like the time to like print it and assemble it would be another like 20 hours. And now I just get to like pop it out, follow the guide on how to put it together. Once it's together, it just sticks together, like it all slots together really well, and it's pretty thick card stock, right? So it's not like flimsy, and I just leave it assembled and put it in a box, and I can just pull it out and throw it down on the table, and it looks really good. So that was really cool because I've I'm like stoked because that also is like something that I get to use for like my friends and stuff when we're playing DD to make it like more cinematic um and kind of kind of engaging like that. But yeah, it was a great Christmas. I think my favorite gift that I gave though was uh I get I did uh my father-in-law, my brother-in-law, and my grandfather. I got them all from my uh pro deals with expert voice. If you're not on expert voice, you should because they let anybody sign up. You just have to have a career. Like literally, like they have something for like every career field. Nice. And you just enter what you're doing, what you do, and they hook you up. Um, but uh I got a bunch of uh super discounted cool apparel. Oh, nice, and so I got them all nice stuff that they really like. Um I guess I I mean honestly, my favorite one is definitely like I uh Billy Jean and I went to um Zion and Bryce Canyon for our anniversary this year. And we got the parks passed for a year, and I was like, I still I really want to use that and go to like parks that we haven't been to before. And so I looked and I booked uh our stay in June out in uh Yellowstone. We're staying in the park because they have lodges that you stay at paid like that are ran by the park service. And so we'll be staying in the park for a few nights, and uh it was expensive. It was it's like you either stay you either stay outside of Yellowstone and it's 30 minutes outside of it, and it's not as expensive, but it's close, and you're staying in like Wyoming, Montana, or you stay in the park and it's it was like it was 1500 bucks for like four nights. Yeah, and they sell out so fast that all that was left, this is why it was expensive, was because all that was left was like the king suite looking over the lake. Oh, hey, and I was like, Yeah, this would be sick. Yeah, and it's for her birthday, but it was also Christmas, and so I was like, how do I wrap this up as a gift? And so I just had my father-in-law 3D print the uh Yellowstone emblem brand. Oh yeah, and I just hung it up on the tree, and it was like this, you know, ugly ornament that was like didn't match with like and she her and her sister decorated the tree. So come Christmas morning, she's like, What is this ornament? And then I was like, Oh, what is that? And she's like, she got it, and I was like, That's your Christmas gift. We're going to Yellowstone for your birthday, and she was very excited. Um, and so we're doing that, and uh it'll it'll be pretty fun, and we'll get to use our parks pass. But I know she felt like special because you know it's we love doing experiences, and I think both of us are more experiential instead of uh material, right? Like we'd rather our gifts be experiences or you know things like that rather than material stuff. So that was pretty sweet. I think those are my favorite ones. Those are good ones. Did you think of yours? I did.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

All right. So this past summer, I was reading.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:21

And I was at the part where and if you've seen the movies or everything too, you get it, but the uh I just got past the part where we've got the priest has um brought in Valjean, the main character, and uh Valjean's a criminal. He's on the run. Stole silverware. Well, yeah, he well, he he's he this is before he steals a silverware. He went to jail for stealing bread. And then he stayed in longer because he tried to escape. But he's staying with the priest, and the priest offers up his home and gives him his home and um and a place to stay, and Valjone betrays his trust out and steals the silver. He still steals these silver candlesticks.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

That's what it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

And he takes the candlesticks and he's caught and brought back to the priest. And the priest um says, Oh no, I gave him those candlesticks.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

That's right, yeah.

Gratitude, Audience, And What’s Next

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

And he ransoms his life back and he buys him. You know, in a way, you know, he's he's he's he's in a way he's ransomed his soul to God and to life of service. And Dajan goes on through his life and he takes care of many people throughout the rest of the book. Um, he takes care of entire towns through biz through his business as he stands up, he becomes the mayor. Once he gets ends up back on the run again, he takes care of a little girl. And throughout the whole book, he has these candlesticks, though. And there's times when he has to leave everything behind and restart and rebuild. But he has the candlesticks and he has these reminders. And so I'm in this reading this part of um this stuff's happened with Belshan, and he's like taking care of these people. And um uh fella came to church and was in need, and I was like, I felt like, man, this guy needs a leg up, he needs some he needs some help. And so I was inspired. I don't know if I'm if I'm the priest. No, I'm not the priest. I'm Valjean. And like because in the way I want to be like, oh, I'm taking care of this guy, it's like, no, I'm the guy who's been ransomed. I'm the guy who's he's not, you know, I I am the criminal. I am the one who's been given a chance and given the opportunity to take care of somebody. And so I've been taking care of this person now for four or five months, you know, six months now. Um giving them a place to stay, giving them jobs, giving them opportunity in life. And sometimes it feels like it's been taken advantage of or like it's like not going anywhere, it's not a good thing, or want to, I want out of this, like, you know, this contract that I have between me and God. Like, why is this? You know, I don't want this anymore. I I've I've I'm I'd rather put those riches in my own pocket. I'd rather um have less of the headache, I'd rather not have to think about this, you know, of all the other things I have to think about in my life. And I was telling my the night before Christmas, Christmas Eve, I was talking to my father-in-law about this, and just the you know, I felt compelled to do this for this person and um and how it has been hard and these things. I'm telling them all about all these things. And there was already a gift wrapped under the tree before I was telling him these things, and telling him about the lay Miz piece of this and how I was feeling. And Christmas morning, I uh unwrap my present from them, and they are uh my father-in-law's moving, so they're kind of downsizing, getting rid of stuff, and inside um on the um on the package, it just says I forget the priest's name, but it says from the priest's name to Valjean, and he'd hand it to me. And wow, I opened it and it's got two candles, silver candlesticks in it, um, that were like, you know, uh grandma's candlesticks, whatever. They're old, these old candlestick. I don't think they're real silver, it doesn't matter. Maybe they are, but it's I opened it and I got to pull out these two candlesticks, and it was just like um reaffirming, you know, and like he didn't go get those out and label it that after I told him the story. Yeah, it was already under the tree for me. That's crazy, and so it was just it felt good, it felt encouraging, you know, felt and it just felt it was obviously a thoughtful gift and something that was um uh valuable, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

Yeah, dude. So well, and it's always I think it I think the thing that can help you keep going in those things is like the acknowledgement, especially from like peers you look up to and people who you hold like their uh acknowledgement in a high regard. So that's that's pretty sick. That's super cool. And what that that's crazy timing that he had already put that on another tree before the conversation happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

Yeah, it feels it feels special. Yeah. Christmas miracle.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

That's cool. And your heart grew three sizes. Yep. Um, well, uh, you know, that's a lot in one episode. Yeah. It was a lot in the world. I hope people got through here to the end where you know we're talking about our favorite gifts and you know, talking on a little bit more optimistic, hopeful note. But hope you're reflecting over your times in the holidays and you know, you have something that you're thankful for receiving and thankful for giving. Um, but yeah, we're thankful for you and our listeners out there, the the dozen. Um we've never we've never recovered from our uh 2024 punishment of talking about politics and being brutally banned by the Algo on on YouTube and other podcast platforms. I I was looking at our listeners, and I do think we have more regular listeners now than we've ever had. But uh the the and I say regular by like consistent like you know, month to month or whatever, but like we've never reached the peak audience that we had before we got our butt slapped, you know, before we got spanked. Uh, but that's just kind of like the monster of the beast. So I don't know. Maybe, maybe in this year, maybe the makeup has show change. Maybe you maybe we will grovel at the knees of I mean at the feet, on our knees, of the algorithm and those who hold the power over the internet over us. Um maybe we'll just pivot content. I don't know. But I have a lot of ideas, and Pat, you mentioned you have ideas too of you know content and stuff to work on, produce, and um you know, we'll we'll see what happens. But uh ultimately at the end of the day, we're thankful for whoever listens, friend, family, stranger, whatever it may be. You're all kid, you're all family. Maybe we got some Venezuela. We should see. I bet we have someone who listens from Venezuela. Just I'm always shocked at like the where people are from when they do tune in. Um but, anyways, all that said, thanks for listening to us. Thanks for you know sticking with us for another year. And uh Pat, you got anything? Until next time.