Supporting the Sustainable Blue Economy: Propelling Change through Finance - A Conversation with Dennis Fritsch

SolPods’ Cassie Freyeisen sits down with Dennis Fritsch, Associate Nature Lead in Nature for the United Nations Environment Programme Finance Initiative (UNEP FI), to talk about the imperative of ocean health, blue finance, and the sustainable Blue Economy. Diving into the delicate balance between economic progress and environmental preservation, Dennis emphasizes the need for collaboration and transformative action to ensure the well-being of our oceans and the entire planet. He discusses UNEPFI's initiatives, including developing guidance for financial institutions to navigate ocean-related risks and opportunities, collaborative investor engagement, and setting science-based targets for ocean sectors. From fostering curiosity and appreciation for marine life to encouraging involvement in conservation efforts and the Blue Economy, Dennis provides valuable insights into safeguarding our oceans for present and future generations.

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Transcript

Lucy Intro 00:03

Welcome to SodPods Studio. We're not your average social network. We're a community of professionals, enthusiasts and students taking sustainability to the next level. Join us on our journey and get inspired by Earth Heroes just like you.

Cassie 00:20

Welcome back to another episode of SolPods Studio. I'm Cassie Freyeisen based in Nashville, Tennessee. And I'm joined here today with an international friend, Dennis Fritsch, joining us from Germany. Dennis studied biology with a focus on marine life for his undergrad. He began his career in the deep blue as a research assistant for ocean research in South Africa. He also spent several years as a research lead for responsible investors covering various responsible investing topics. More recently, he has worked for the United Nations Environment Program Finance Initiative, or UNEPFI, helping to support sustainability initiatives in blue finance, a relatively new topic that I'm really looking forward to hearing more about. Dennis, I'm super excited to learn more about your journey and some of the key projects you're working on to help propel a more sustainable world and ensure a healthy future for our ocean.

Dennis 01:10

Thank you very much for having me, Cassie. Very happy to chat today and I'm looking forward to it.

Cassie 01:15

Awesome. Thanks so much. So, Dennis. I know you've always had a passion for the ocean, biology, and the natural world. Can you tell us more about your background and how you ended up in a career at the United Nations?

Dennis 01:28

Yeah, it depends how far you want to go back. I mean, I grew up very landlocked in Germany. so, the first time I saw salt water and the sea was probably, I was like maybe 11 or 12 years old, quite late. But I loved, loved, loved underwater documentaries. You know, David Attenborough’s work, other brilliant people bringing the underwater world to everyone's screens really inspired me. And that also after high school really triggered my, my wish to, to study biology. The course was general biology, but quite quickly became clear that, you know, marine biology was the way to go. I also had a focus on neurobiology. So I also did that alongside marine, but marine was really almost always my passion. And then after I was to my academic career, finished with, with me getting a PhD. I decided that wasn't for me. And I wanted to do, I had an urge so to speak, to do more about, you know, ocean sustainability, to, as you say, to actually propel it to the forefront because at that time, you know, the whole conversation about plastics in the oceans was really coming out and of course, our fishing, all the other issues, were really front of mind. And that's when I joined Responsible Investor. I thought, you know, if you, if you want to really do things in the world, for better or worse, you really need to put the money behind it. And therefore, you know, the field of responsible investment, sustainable finance was quite attractive. I am very thankful that sponsor me took a chance on me essentially coming from, from the scientific side to to this new world. And and yeah, as you said, I headed the research department there working on a lot of different topics around ESG, working with pension funds and asset managers and advisors as well. Amongst other topics there, I really put forward the topic of the blue economy and wrote the first report on investor sentiment around this topic. And also afterwards, there was another report on biodiversity finance and investment, which was lean and not as focused. And then after that, I joined UNEPFI and I've been here for 3.5 years and very much enjoying it.

Cassie 04:12

Yeah, that's awesome. And I will say you took my childhood dream of becoming a marine biologist and being in that field, you took my dream.

Dennis 04:25

It was my dream too. I always wanted to become a deep sea biologist but, you know, I don't think I ever count as that. Yeah. No, I never, never, never, actually worked as a marine biologist. 

Cassie 04:32

No, you have the mindset. Yeah. Absolutely. You have the mindset. You, you took, you took that dream of mine. But no, it's, it's so great. It's so awesome to see how your career has progressed. And I will mention that you were amazing when I worked with you when I worked, you know, partnered with you when you were a Responsible Investor. And I'm so glad we had that opportunity to do that. So, you know, I know that you have spent a lot and you know, a great deal of your career focused on blue finance. Can you explain what blue finance is in simple terms? And how does it fit into the blue economy, which is really the sustainable use of ocean resources?

Dennis 05:06

Yeah, that's a very good question. And it's a, it's a topic that's, that's quite, quite new. this whole blue economy, blue finance conversation. It comes obviously on the back of, you know, the ocean being in quite a bad state these days. Sadly, due to human actions, human economic activities, let's say like that, that are mostly extractive and harmful. And people are starting to realize that the ocean actually has a lot of value in a healthy state. It provides a lot of goods but also ecosystem services. As you said, you know, producing oxygen is a significant part of it. But there's others, you know, obviously providing animal protein and plant protein via marine creatures. Providing flood protection, they fall off mangroves, seagrass meadows, coastal areas, providing spaces for recreation and, you know, multiple other figures. And there was a study a couple of years ago by WWF that tried to estimate what in a monetary sense, as much as he, as he estimated, what is it worth of all these services? And, they found out that at a minimum, it would be around $2.5 trillion per year. And that obviously is incredible and it is equivalent to the seventh largest economy GDP. So I think that is first, I probably people realizing, I mean, when I say people, I say, you know, the people talking to financial institutions realizing that if we need to conserve this space, we need to conserve this as sad as it sounds asset value. And that only works if, if the ocean is healthy as a system. But the blue economy narrative really is one of looking at blue or ocean sectors in a holistic sense. So that means realizing that there is an impact problem of pollution on coastal users and like, you know, divers, surfers. But also coastal fisheries are impacted by coastal pollution, maritime transport to impact other other sectors. So there is a high, a high amount of interlinks between ocean sectors that the blue economy really advocates . That looking at these as a whole is way more valuable than looking at these sectors in asylums, which has been really the way to go before. And you know, the fisheries people would look at fisheries exclusively, the shipping people would look at shipping exclusively and so on. 

And in addition to that the blue economy can mean different things to different people. There's not really a a globally accepted definition. Although many organizations need the same thing, but for, for some organizations and countries, the blue economy needs any activity that goes on the ocean. It could be also helpful activities like like industrial fisheries or offshore and gas. Whereas and at UNEP other organizations, we really always stress that we talk about the sustainable blue economy just to make it excruciatingly crucial to clear that we talk about, you know, the sustainable part of this ocean economy. We see it as really efficient for all of these ocean sectors to, to transition to, you know, in a sense now, fisheries in a current state mostly are not sustainable, but they can transition to sustainable wild capture fisheries. Same, same is true for aquaculture, same is true for maritime transport. And so on and tourism of course, is another good example where currently, you know, not super sustainable, whereas sustainable ecotourism would be part of a sustainable. And that's obviously a very long story to very, to cut it short. The reason why we focus on on the financial side of things is because these sectors are powered by, you know, the money that comes from banks, insurers, investors, of course also governments. But you know, a big charm is coming from the private sector. And when we talk about blue finance, we really talk about finance that is going into this transition, that goes into transition or let's say, trying to move the finance away from powerful approaches towards ocean positive sustainable approaches that support a sustainable, that is, that is really what we talked about when we say the word blue finance and, and as I said, just now, you know, banks, it shows investors, they have huge leverage to, to change the course of these sectors quite quickly because of course the financing and investment is what they all do and not. and so if, if the money, the people with the money put pressure, then, then, you know, change can happen quite quickly.

Cassie 10:25

Absolutely. And I love what you said, it's all interconnected, right? We can't really look at it from a siloed approach. We need to look at everything holistically: the maritime transport, the waste management and the way that we're actually, you know, preventing this plastic polution from going into our oceans. We need to ensure, you know, that we're not overfishing to have that, that, you know, wealth of biodiversity in our oceans. We need to be thinking about how we travel, where we're traveling and making sure that we're, you know, leaving the lands around the beaches and the coast as they were when we came. And then of course, climate change, you know, this is a direct correlation of human activity. So how do all of these things fit together and how can we ensure that we're supporting in this transition, like you said, in a positive way? 

Dennis 11:16

Completely. I just wanted to add that, for a financial institution, it’s not necessarily always clear why they should care about ocean health initially. You know, I'm sure many, not many banks globally are thinking about ocean health when they think about a lot, for example. But to take the example that you mentioned, you know, sustainable fishery, no industrial fisheries currently. If you're unsure of who it ensures in, you know, fishing vessels, if the ocean is overfished, then 10 years down the line, you might not have any vessels to insure. And so you're losing business. The same is true for banks, same is true for investors, right? So there's a huge risk in action actually. And again, WWF published a really good report two years ago where they estimated that inaction, business as usual approach to ocean sectors would leave around two thirds of the global economy as in all listed companies. Because all listed companies erupt $8.4 trillion out of pocket over the next 15 years. So that's, that's huge numbers and that should be an incredible incentive for action from the financial sector to protect that asset value essentially.

Cassie 12:34

Do you think there's enough support and you know, capital injection going into the blue economy or do you think there's room for progress?

Dennis 12:42

Definitely room for progress. Otherwise, you know, I wouldn't be doing the job I’m doing. I think one of the issues is that there isn't necessarily a lot of awareness, as I just mentioned. and where there is awareness days and always expertise or capacity to act or the knowledge of how to act in the right way. So, you know, there is not, this is really a new topic for a lot of the financial institutions we work with and maybe I’ll add as well, UNEPFI, we are a, you know, part of the UN Environment Programme and we, we really try to catalyze action across the financial system to align economies with sustainable development as a whole. So that meets the SDGS goals, Climate Agreement, Global Biodiversity framework as well. And my work specifically focuses on the ocean side of things. And this is really new. Climate has been on the radar for these organizations for a long time and they're really starting to grapple with it. Now, of course, there are ups and downs as we all know. But, you know, that's, that's really way more known that the ocean is so new, it's really uncharted waters for, for all of them. And so there isn't necessarily a track record of successful projects. There isn't obvious project projects that are around that can be easily be invested in. Not always clear what are the solutions to the problems that we're facing. And so, you know, all this work is really what we're doing right now to, to bring the financial sector to, to a place where, you know, a lot of capital can flow into the necessary activities and away from harmful activities. So I would say across the board, you know, there's probably underfunding in most of the sectors for transition. There's some, some examples where, you know, there's quite a lot of funding flowing in, you know, offshore wind is really hot right now and that, that's a, a lot of people are investing in sustainable aquaculture on quite a small scale, but it's a hot topic as well. But then when you talk about, you know, sustainable wildcat fisheries or decarbonization of shipping, there's a huge amount of money that is necessary. True for, you know, coastal and marine protected areas, there's not nearly enough money flowing into that. So overall, I'd say underfunded and more progress needed. But obviously that's how we do it.

Cassie 15:15

But also big room for opportunity, big opportunities in terms of jobs and careers, right? As this transition, you know, is imperative because the health of our oceans really is going to be what ensures that we have a healthy future in, you know, in the years to come. So I agree with you, I think underfunded and I think that there's just a lot, a lot of room and there's a lot of progress to be made. And I think that's why what you're doing at UNEPFI is so key and I would love to hear about some of the key projects that you and your team have undertaken recently to really help educate people on this topic and to really support the sustainable blue economy. Could you highlight a few of these for us Dennis?

Dennis 15:55

Yes, of course. A pleasure. Yeah, I mean we, we have our, we have our octopus arms in a lot of different pots. But really the main, the main thing that we work on is as you see awareness raising capacity building topic. So we host the so-called sustainable blue economy finance principles that are the gold standard globally where you want to, if you want to align your financing capital flows with the SCG 40. It's quite a high level framework on how to align capital flows with, with ocean health. Broadly speaking, they’ve been around as of 2018, these principles, and we now host to really build a very active community about these principles. So we use this as a framework that we set for financial access to, to align to and to implement across the lines of business. So we have a, a network of now, I think it's 88 institutions across banking, insurance, investment but also, you know, NGOs, science scientists research houses COECD as well, for example, so big big network that works with us on, on the one hand, creating resources and tools for financial actors to actually do the implementation of these principles and you know, helping them to, to realize what that means and on the other and also, you know, promoting this topic as a whole and spreading the mouth so to speak. So a lot of the work that we've been doing over the last three years, I've been involved 3.5 years that involves us really centered or build up these principles and the networks. So two things I would highlight maybe are our very practical end market first. The new finance guides for financial institutions, we published two over the last couple of years, turning the tide diving deep and they are very pragmatic and practical handbooks for people working at a bank or at an investment house. For example, that either want to work with ocean sectors or are already involved in ocean sectors. And highlight, you know, what are the environmental, social impacts and drivers of these sectors and that crucially could lead to materiality. You know, why as a bank should you care aside from a moral standpoint, or why should you care from a risk perspective? What is the risk of not doing anything or continuing the way you're doing things right now? And then we, as you mentioned at highlights rightly, we, we know we have a focus not only on the bad stuff but the risks but also on opportunities. So we actually have within these guidances, science based recommendations of how to deal with certain activities across these sectors. So we have a kind of red flags across these sectors that should not be financed anymore, that should not be invested in anymore. As an example, maybe bottom trolley, you know, marine protected area would be a no go that should not be supported because it's highly risky, highly damaging, risky. You know, also from our financial point of view, reputation. And at the other to the spectrum, we also highlight, you know, what is considered best practice across these sectors and therefore, presents opportunities to invest or finance or get it both and also presents opportunities to engage with already existing clients on topics that are you know, of interest, things like data transparency. So these these guidances are available online and available for free. And we are actually now working on implementing that, that's what we've been doing this year. So we've, we've published a couple of more practical resources around things like the exclusion list, for example, that we know banks and investors like to use and they're really used to that as well. You know, these are, these are ways to translate this new topic into, into formats and structures that these financial institutions are used to, exclusions list is one of them. The other one that we look at this year specifically is collaborative investor engagement specifically on seafood. We're working on this with a couple of organizations: WWF Planet Tracker, the World Benchmark Alliance Fair. So that's very exciting and will result in some real underground impact. And additionally, we are also working on a methodology for our, for our network to start implementing these recommendations in practice by setting targets and writing future policies where necessary. So that's something that we do collaboratively across the network throughout this year. So it's, it's also very exciting. And, and apart from that, what we always do on a rolling basis is, you know, capacity building, training, webinars and things like that. A lot of events. And then we get feedback and are involved in a lot of industry and market level initiatives. For example, the EU taxonomy, we're developing the first global guidance on blue economy steps hopefully out soon. But also the science based targets that we’re trying to set, science based targets for ocean sectors for companies. We also try to, to be involved as much as possible in, in what's going on beyond that UNEP sphere of work because there's a lot going on. This is a really fast moving field. So it's quite exciting. 

Cassie 21:52

You have a lot of octopus arms out there, Dennis, you and your team, you have a lot going on. How do you ensure that you capture all of the feedback from all the different you know, portfolio management teams, analysts, you know, different financial organizations from the different, you know, fair and you know, any other cloud of organizations, how do you ensure you take all of that feedback and implement that for then let's say your next piece of you know, of research piece that comes out, how do you take all that and really consolidate it and boil it down and then also see what kind of impact you guys at UNEPFI are really having, how do you boil that down?

Dennis 22:35

Yeah, that's a really good question. The answer is a lot of work, but it's also fun. So for the guidance, specifically, these were not just developed by me writing away. This was a really collaborative effort every time across our network. So we for each of them had like a, a nine month period of development where we had monthly working group calls with around 70 institutions to give updates on the writing and then get feedback on, you know, problems, get brainstorming, support for different topics. And, our network was incredibly involved and I’m eternally grateful for the time and, and, you know, part to be part of this process twice, well, 2.5 times because obviously they had bolted it right now again with the building of targets. But it's, it's really, it was, it was an amazing experience to be able to draw so much expertise. And then at the end of the process, everyone had the possibility to, you know, give feedback as well and have one on one calls if needed. And then lastly, it also went through internal UNEP systems or, you know, checks and balances, so to speak. So is every time quite an involved process. But it ensures that what we're putting out is on the one hand science based as you, you know, we have a science organization. So we need to make sure that what we put out is based on the best medical science. But we also really want to make sure that what we put out is usable by our audience and our network. If we put something out, that sounds great, but it is practically not, not doable that, you know, we haven't really achieved our goal. So the input from our network was really valuable to make sure that they're all behind what we put out at that and now are implementing it, which is great to see.

Cassie 24:37

Yeah, the implementation part is really critical, right? Because that's where you can really make a huge, you know, impact. So sounds like a very really collaborative approach and I can't wait to see what will be the next piece that you guys will put out. So we'll, we'll definitely, you know, keep our eyes out for that. So today, you’re Associate Programme Lead in Nature, can you tell me what a typical day looks like for you because everyone is so interested. You work for the United Nations Environment Programme, you know, tell us what that looks like. Are you out there on the ground? Are you, you know, back at home going through all these collaborative pieces, reviewing content? Are you attending biodiversity conferences? What does a day or maybe even a week look like for you?

Dennis 25:22

Yeah, that's a good question. And, and probably all of the above across time. So I would say currently a a lot of internal meetings, you know, when, whenever we develop content ourselves, there's a lot of managing of internal  teams and projects to make sure that it is progress and there are any issues, you know, we reflect that and reviewing timelines and things like that. So a lot of internal meetings and that means UNEPFI nature team that works on not just oceanic biodiversity, nature also. So we look at the linkages between us and the task force of nature related financial disclosures, for example, or another topic that I deal with a lot is the food system. So we also want to make sure that everything's, you know, fitting into the bigger picture. But it also means internal meetings with, with colleagues from the UN Environment Programme that work not with financial actors, but with governments on, on, you know, things like policy making. Ocean governments check it regularly with that and ensure that it's aligned. And in times of big collaborative projects like right now and to be honest, over the last couple of years, it's always been like this and not a collaboration across the board. And so I had regular external meetings with project partners or potential collaborators or also just the network that we have to, to make sure that we stay on top of all the developments as a set field. So sometimes it's hard to keep up with all the developments and publications that are coming out. So a lot of meetings with, with with external partners as well and interaction with our network, of course, we have working groups ongoing currently on Target Celtic and, and on seafood finance as well. So checking in with that and we also have regular events. So there's a lot of event practice speaking at webinars or, or workshops and then, yeah, sometimes these events are abroad or, you know, somewhere. So obviously, during COVID, everything was virtual but slowly but surely things got back to more normal. And so there's a bit of travel involved which is always exciting to see the colleagues in the flesh highlighting. A highlighted last year was definitely the UN Ocean conference in Lisbon. For the first time we had a big get together of our network that had previously only really met virtually. So that was really exciting. And then obviously, you know, while we're doing the projects, you have to think of the next projects as well. So there's a lot of thinking about strategy, how we frame this, like what is needed next for the sustainable blue economy, specifically, not for me, but you know, there's a lot of big parts and we, as I said, try to have our octopus arms in a lot of different pots as well, not just our own work program, but you know, we we prepare the speaking points for high level officials at the UN but also briefings for the G 20 for example, are I recently spoke at the EU meetings in German and other global blue finance initiatives and projects like, you know, like the IFC or the World Bank, the Global Fund for Coral Reefs and whatever our partners are doing. As I said, you know, we have a big network with a lot of NGOs and and other partners to constantly work within their own space in the wider blue economy or finance space. And we always want to make sure that what they're doing, what we are doing is aligned and you know, can work together. So an example here would be the the collaborative investor engagement that we're planning now where we are, we have a lot of partners in this project which is exciting and each partner brings in their own resources that can be useful for this process. We bring contact to financial institutions and that working group and our guidances. But the World Benchmarking Alliance, for example, has a seafood stewardship index of the most responsible seafood companies. And and you know, that really works quite, quite nicely together when you bring it together. So collaboration is really a big part of my, of my day to day, I would say, and, you know, management of partnerships and things like this.

Cassie 29:48

What are some of the key topics and trends that you see right now in the different conferences or events or round tables that you're talking at? What are some of the key topics that you're covering right now around the sustainable blue economy and finance?

Dennis 30:02

Way to, way to narrow it down. Yes, that's a good question. I mean, I think there's one topic that's always at the forefront is seafood. And that means wild catch fisheries. It's always at the front of mind because it brings together so many different topics. You know, it brings together climate impacts, it brings together livelihoods and you know, nutrition. So that really is a big next nexus topic. Seafood. And so that's all, that's really a big topic for us this year. What also was really popular, it continues to be really popular is nature based solutions. So, you know, that means having our using natural systems to, to the benefit of nature. But also people, things like mangroves would be based solutions because they provide flood and storm protection for coastal communities. They provide erosion protection, they provide protection from sea level rise. They are nurseries for, you know, marine life and, and they also sequester carbon at a really high rate. So they have a lot of co- benefits and they are way more effective, for example, at protecting coastal communities from flooding than our sea walls. They also grow, you know, over time. So the sea wall would be great infrastructure. Whereas mangrove forest, a healthy mangrove forest or using a mix between a great infrastructure and natural systems would be considered a major, great solution. So that's really a hot topic right now because again, it links that nature field, the biodiversity topic with the climate topic, which is of course always bigger. And it's been on, on a lot of people's minds for a lot of time. So linking these topics is quite popular these days, I would say.

Cassie 31:56

And some other Nature Based Solutions; wouldn't another one be like seaweed gardens or seaweed farming? Is, would that be another example or could you maybe give a couple more Nature Based Solutions that you're focused on right now?

Dennis 32:07

Yeah, that's a, that's a good question. I mean, yeah, seaweed is a really hot topic actually because there's a lot of potential for seaweed to sequester car as well and it helps clear the water. So I get this co-benefits I think is a, is a, it's really a guiding theme for all Nature Based Solutions, I would say. But there's, there's really loads. My favorite, my favorite example are always mackerels because they, they work so well. But that you know, I think in the adaptation of education space. They are really quite a lot of nature based solutions because you, you kind of try and do do good on, on several, several ends. But there's a more obscure you know, ways of doing it like sand motor, for example, that is replenishing sand by natural processes for beaches and other topics. But we have case studies on our website actually for those that are interested in learning more about what's actually going on on the ground. So there are loads of examples on our website for, for those of you listening that are more inclined to, to learn about nature based solutions. And it's also beyond the ocean realm, the topic.

Cassie 33:25

And I know that mangroves are definitely on the decline because of, you know, different climate change effects. How could we help as individuals to, you know, support these types of Nature Based Solutions or just be more educated around them? What would you recommend for individuals?

Dennis 33:43

Yeah, that's a really good question. And not necessarily that easy one to answer I would say because of course, education must be number one, you know, you need to be educated about things before you can act. And that we find is true on an individual level and it's true on a company finance institution, government level either. So that definitely is a crucial step number one. And you know, individual actions and, and voices count very much. You know, you can, you can demand, you could demand transparency in certain sectors, you know, that you as an individual are buying a product from that can, goes beyond the ocean realm, doesn't cover just things like fisheries, but it also covers textiles and fashion and topics. So knowing, knowing where, knowing where stuff comes from, is always really helpful to reveal underlying, you know, where there might be issues. And then, you know, voting or supporting representatives that push for ocean positive legislation policy and protection crucially. That is you know, that's, that's really a key thing that I'm also doing personally. And then lastly, sometimes they are overlooked as an individual, you know, I talk about us working with banks and, and investors and it sounds quite, you know, high level and a bit removed from, from the real world. But if you have a pension, you know, you are, you are an investor, so demand that your pension fund looks at, you know, its investments and screens it or maybe doesn't invest in the bad stuff. And update this investment policy if it's not to your liking or not in accordance with science. So, you can, you know, become active on different fronts as an individual I would say. And climate action in the end, there is also ocean action, right? One of the biggest threats to ocean ecosystems is climate change. So that is, you know, whenever you, you, you act on climate, then you also act towards the ocean. Although it might sometimes, sometimes feel a bit removed, but it's still true. And lastly, obviously, as an individual, you're free to do what you want with your life. But you can study biology. That's one thing I recommend to everyone. I really loved studying biology. That was amazing. It was an amazing experience and you are learning about life on earth as a whole system of the planet, how it works. That was really incredible. So, you know, make it maybe make it your vocation, study biology, work with the United Nations if you can work within your, within your career to better ocean health in some way or other. And I'm sure in most career paths you can do at least a bit. 

Cassie 36:55

I love that and you're really doing it you know, full spectrum. So in addition to being at UNEPFI, you are also a mentor I see at both the University of Oxford and their sustainability program as well as a mentor at the Sustainable Ocean Alliance. Can you share with us how you support these organizations and really what they're trying to achieve?

Dennis 37:18

Yeah, that's a fun part of my day when I get to do this. 

Cassie 37:22

Aside from changing diapers, right? For your six month old.

Dennis 37:28

Yeah, exactly. Although that's also fun. I have to say weirdly. So, yeah, it's really interesting to work with the younger generation and see the excitement they have about these topics. So, with the University of Oxford, I took that last year that this year I’m actually not, but that was really supporting Masters students on anything ocean related.So there was a lot of kind of advisor- specific projects that linked to biodiversity of the ocean. and also career advice and I also supervised the master's thesis, for example, this year. So that was fun and for the Sustainable Ocean Alliance, it's a big network of what they call the eco-preneurs. So it's startups or early stage companies that work within the blue space. And for that, it's, it's way more specific topic, you know, topics that relate to the blue economy and blue finance. So that was a nice balance actually. But as a whole, it's great to work with the young generation to get them excited about this topic. You know, this is a fast moving space and we need all hands on deck. And therefore, it's great to be able to do this work. 

Cassie 38:52

All hands on deck, literally. I love that. So, as kind of like a closing or getting toward our closing from a more general standpoint, how can we all do our part to ensure a healthy ocean for our future generations? How can we get involved? I know you've mentioned some ideas already but, you know, for young people that want to maybe even work at the United Nations someday or they want to just get involved within our oceans’ health. Where do you think that they should start?

Dennis 39:20

Yeah, I think it, it definitely doesn't hurt to start from a point where you appreciate the ocean as a, as a system or as a, as a, as a place on this earth or ocean animals. I mean, a lot of little children are very excited about animals, in general, you know, keeping, keeping that appreciation up I think it's quite hard work when you grow up, but it really helps because it motivates you to act in your personal life. It doesn’t always have to go as far as, you know, big career out of it. To appreciate ocean life has intrinsic value and seeing the beauty that really helped me to, to stick to it through sometimes, you know, harder times and difficult times. So that, that served me as a bonus. And you know, being interested in general, in learning more, you can always learn more. I've worked in this space for a long time. I'm learning almost every day about new things. and it's, it's great and it, it keeps you, it keeps you on your feet, so to speak. And then once you are confident, you know, and you really feel like you're, you want to fight for, for the ocean health and, you know, as I said earlier on things like supporting the right people, talking to friends about the right topics and getting involved locally properly. I'm sure many people out there who are interested have some type of organization that, you know, a scientific body or conservation organization that works on, on different topics that, that, that, you know, they're probably happy to have volunteers. Ah, so, you know, that's a, that's, that's probably also a good way for younger people, especially to get involved. And then once you grow older and you, you know, you get out of school and then you start, you know, studying and choosing jobs and things like this, then, you know, from our, from our team, we have a quite a big mix of backgrounds. I, as I said, I come from the scientific side but, a lot of people within UNEPFI have backgrounds of international relations or Political Science, Law. But also, of course, due to the nature of our work from finance, a lot of people... So it's quite a big mix. so you know, having an interesting, interesting CD probably never harms. So it also means you don't have to stick to this one path, that isn’t the only path to lead you where you would have ways to get where you want to go. If you just show, show the passion for it, I think.

Cassie 41:58

I love that. Ok. So now we're going to get a little personal. I know you're big into freediving. So what's the coolest animal you ever saw or what animal do you, you know down in the deep blue, what do you love the most?

Dennis 42:10

Yeah, I probably have two answers to that. Maybe three. I mean, just because I think the, the most magical encounter I ever had was free diving in at the Mesoamerican Reef in Mexico and seeing spotted eagle rays. It's a beautiful, beautiful, graceful animal. If you don't know what a spotted eagle ray looks like, Google it, it's gonna blow your mind, I hope. But you know, more commonly, what always is amazing to see is, is, is, is an octopus are amazing to see under the water. They, they're curious and they're smart and they change color and shade and texture and it's, it's, it's really critical. So probably at least two I would say. 

Cassie 42:52

That's awesome. And we just ended shark week, I think last week. Do you have a favorite type of shark? I know a lot of people are really into sharks. Do you have a favorite one?

Dennis 43:00

Yeah, sharks are quite good. I would probably say Greenland Shark. It might be an unusual answer. Yeah, they, as the name says, they live in like, mostly deep and cold waters around Greenland, and, you know, other colder parts of the ocean and, they live in perpetual darkness almost. They're, you know, they, they grow incredibly old like over 300 years. So it's quite a yes. Almost  like a mythical creature I feel. So that might be my favorite type of shark. 

Cassie 43:38

That's cool. Gives us a little bit of a picture about you, Dennis. You're an old soul, huh? I love it. OK. So now you're gonna have to put your creative goggles on. So as a wrap up, we like to ask all of our guests this question to really close out our episodes. So if you could have one sustainability superpower to really help change the world for the better, what would it be and why?

Dennis 44:02

That is a difficult question to answer as I told you earlier. I mean, it's because I worked with financial institutions and I see where, you know, a big stumbling block is, its finance. I would probably say having unlimited financial resources that I could then distribute to where it's needed. Probably especially, I mean, transformation, as I said, a transition to a sustainable economy. Yes. I think where it's really urgently needed is also protection and the, the money, the money going into marine protected areas is often coming from governments and, or philanthropy. And so there's a kind of limited scope to do proper protection of 100%. So that doesn't happen often and if it happens then monitoring and enforcement is really hard because the ocean is vast and, and is costly to monitor a vast area. And so maybe that would be maybe a bit boring, superpower to have; unlimited resources for ocean protection.

Cassie 45:10

I love that. Really thinking with your heart right there. Well, maybe that could be your next paper talking about the protection and then you can get some support there and your journey here can really come to fruition. It is a, it would be a, you know, it's a major undertaking, but I think that's a great superpower to have. I love that one. Well, thank you Dennis so much for being here today. We really learned so much about the importance of ocean health, blue finance and the blue economy. And you know, as we mentioned, the oceans really are the lungs of earth and without a healthy ocean, we're not gonna have a healthy planet. So we really need to, you know, be engaged, you know, care about nature, care about the oceans and it's clear that we really all do need to work together to create this, you know, new balance and new harmony with the ocean that no longer, you know, depletes the resources. But instead we restore this incredible ecosystem and the vibrancy. And like you mentioned, staying educated, you know, getting involved with nature and getting involved in conservation activities and really helping to support the blue economy are just a few ways to, to help and get involved. So thanks to everyone for listening today, we really appreciate your support and please don't forget to check out our free community at SolPods.earth to really learn more about ocean health biodiversity, ocean volunteer opportunities and job opportunities, as well as to connect with others like Dennis who are really passionate about making a positive impact for our oceans and for our world. So, thank you so much again, Dennis and until next time. 

Dennis 46:40

Huge pleasure. Thank you.

Lucy Outro 46:42

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