Breaking Boundaries to Build the Future - A Conversation with Jessica Maderos

SolPods' Amy Farrell sits down with Jessica Maderos, a trailblazing chemical engineer who's not only reshaping industries but also paving the way for other aspiring women in this dynamic field.  Jessica stands as a beacon of innovation and sustainability at Blue Planet, a company committed to rewriting the environmental narrative of the construction industry.  Jessica’s podcast is a perfect introduction to the importance of the “Built Economy.”  Buildings account for almost 40% of greenhouse gas emissions and a third of the world's energy consumption. At Blue Planet, Jessica spearheads efforts to create carbon-negative concrete aggregate, a groundbreaking innovation that helps the Built Economy get closer to net zero. 

Learn more about the American Institute of Chemical Engineers (AIChE) and the Society of Women Engineers.
Check out University of California Davis Department of Chemical Engineering.
Discover the U.S. Green Building Council, the World Green Business Council, and the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) rating system.

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Transcript

Lucy (Intro) 00:03

Welcome to SodPods Studio. We're not your average social network. We're a community of professionals, enthusiasts and students taking sustainability to the next level. Join us on our journey and get inspired by Earth Heroes just like you.

Amy 00:19

Welcome back to another episode of SolPods Studio. I'm Amy Ferrell based in the Bay Area of California. And I'm joined here today with a fellow Bay Area resident, Jessica Maderos. Jessica is a chemical engineer, and she's worked in several different industries. But currently, she's working with a really innovative company called Blue Planet.  I learned about Blue Planet's carbon negative concrete aggregate at an event at Plug and Play Sunnyvale where I got to hear Jessica present, and I was so intrigued. So I definitely wanted her to join the podcast. Welcome, Jessica.

Jessica 01:01

Thank you so much for having me.

Amy 01:03

I'm so glad to have you here today.  Before we really dive into the details of how carbon negative concrete is made, I just wanted to take a step back. What was it that really got you interested in designing chemical processes? I mean, I have this picture in my head of a kid who loved to experiment in the kitchen or maybe out in the backyard, mixing ingredients to see what happens. But what was it really that got you interested in chemical processes?

Jessica 01:32

So I remember like the first you know, science experiment that you do in elementary school is you make that volcano eruption, right? Using baking soda and vinegar. So many students do it. And I loved that. And then I remember like, as I got into middle school, I realized, oh, I'm not so much into Earth sciences. I definitely prefer physical sciences. You know, I definitely preferred building like a loop-de-loop marble roller coaster instead of dissecting frogs. So I was always like exploring and learning more about what I actually like. Plus I realized that physical science is really tied in well with math, which was definitely my strong suit. And as I got older, going into high school, the first honors class that's offered or at least was at my high school was honors chemistry. And I was so excited for that. I remember spending the entire summer in between freshman and sophomore year studying the periodic table making flash cards.

Amy 02:26

Ok.  I just have to say there's not a lot of people who spend their summer with the periodic table. I love it!

Jessica 02:32

There was an element of, we were supposed to have a test on the first day.

Amy 02:35

So you were preparing.

Jessica 02:36

Yes, but I also enjoyed it. And then also, I mean, having grown up here in the San Francisco Bay Area. I don't always driven past, or my dad had always driven past, oil refineries that are around here. And this kind of sounds crazy. But I remember I was always fascinated by them, especially at night.

I really felt like they looked like their own little city and, you know, just with all of the lights and I was always just so curious about like the inner workings of them. And I was like, huh, I wonder, like, what types of people get to work there. So, that definitely played a part in it. But then there was also a practical part.  As a first generation college student, I knew going to have to pay for college myself, and I knew that I was going to have to study something that I could obtain a decent paying job, like to fully support myself at the end of just a four year degree. I knew that, you know, going in getting a PhD wasn't necessarily in the cards for me, at least not immediately. So, you know, as much as I always loved school, and I would have loved to continue my education, and maybe even stay in academia. This was my path. And so I chose chemical engineering, as, you know, an 18 year old.  And I'm really glad I did.

Amy 03:39

Oh, that's amazing. So, so, really just a combination of your interests and, and also your career objectives. And as you were saying, you know, you were really concentrating not just on those four years as being this opportunity to learn, but also gain practical skills that you could put into action right after graduation. And I know that there's actually a lot of programs that prepare girls for STEM careers.

And while it's changing, as far as I know, women are still really underrepresented in chemical engineering.  I believe it's only like 30%.  For our listeners who are interested in pursuing a degree in this area. What are some of the words of wisdom you would share, especially for girls in high school, middle school who are thinking about going down a path like you've pursued.

Jessica 04:25

Yeah, definitely. So I definitely recommend finding a mentor, especially as someone who's struggled through college without one. I can't imagine like how much easier of a time I would have had.  And also getting involved in clubs or even just following them before you get into, you know, your college, if you're in high school or whatever, just following and looking at what types of clubs there are out there.

Most universities have a chapter of the American Institute of Chemical Engineers, which is AIChE or SWE, which is the Society for Women Engineers. These types of organizations are amazing. They usually have development workshops. They'll have, you know, working professionals come in and speak on certain nights.  They'll have social nights, but there's, I mean, there's tons of resources these days and luckily high school students can learn about all kinds of areas like of study on their phones, right? 

I'm not sure exactly what types of courses other universities have, but something that was super exciting about UC Davis was right as I was leaving, the UC Davis Chemical Engineering department started, something called the Design of Coffee. It was the first elective in the Chemical Engineering College that was offered to anybody.  Anybody at UC Davis could take it, and it seriously blew up. It instantly became the most popular elective on campus. So hard to get.  I just have to imagine like this helped gain even more interest in chemical engineering.  Because you take something, you know, like so ordinary.  Everybody brews coffee.  Not everybody, most people brew coffee every day, and you get into like the details of the process behind it.  You know, mass and heat transfer, how to optimize for flavor or and then also scale it up. And if you just start to think about, wow, like that happens, like just with coffee, like I am, I can do this with anything, you know, like beer or cheese making. So I think, you know, people who are on the fence about the field of study, like seeking out, you know, these kinds of courses or literature that are really approachable is amazing.

But one bit of wisdom, I guess ,if I can say that after only being out of school for seven years, is really to trust that you belong in the room. I remember getting into college and, you know, all of these fellow students, especially some of the boys, asking, you know, the simple question of, oh, why are you studying chemical engineering? And I would get so in my head, you know, thinking that my reasons weren't as impressive or relevant or that I might sound silly. But in reality, we are all, you know, 18 and 19 year olds who made a decision in high school.  You know,? And so I've continued to struggle with that even up until the last few years. And I know it's something that many young women struggle with.  You know, right now I work with such intelligent and highly educated people.,and while I have far less of these moments, now I do still have some moments here and there where I have to take a step back and remind myself that while I might not have a PhD or I might not have gone to Stanford or, you know, an Ivy League, I still belong in the room, and I have so much to contribute. Many, many young women struggle with this. And I think that, you know, as long as they know that they're willing to put in the work and always open to learning, there's no reason to doubt themselves.

Amy 07:25

I think that's incredibly inspirational for our listeners, across the board. It sounds like Davis really approached engineer, or chemical engineering, in an innovative way. I, I think this coffee elective is,

Jessica 07:42

It was so cool.

Amy 07:43

Yeah, who doesn't want to know the kind of the behind the scenes of, of making coffee?But in addition to that, it sounds like from what you've told me that you also got to dive pretty deep into your area of practice with a capstone project. I understand that, you know, sustainability is also important at UC Davis. So how does sustainability touch chemical engineering? How is it being integrated into the field?

Jessica 08:12

Definitely.  My final senior project at Davis, we had to design a chemical production facility.  You know, everything from determining like what types of process units were needed. And we also were given the economics, and we had to work all of that out.  And basically, we were told what materials we had to work with and what we needed to make. We didn't necessarily know how we were supposed to do it.

So you had to research the different chemistries and the different types of unit operations that were available, right? And obviously certain pumps have higher energy efficiencies than others. And that was something you really looked at. It was really a great first experience at process design, which is something that I love. And it encapsulated so much of what we learned in the entire curriculum.

And yeah, so a big concept within chemical engineering is optimization, right? But there are so many different things that you can optimize for. And of course, like each one of them has tradeoffs. Luckily though in many cases, and the case for our process, optimizing for operating costs can also typically optimize for sustainability.

The case for our process, we really wanted to recycle as much of our starting material as possible back into the process as a starting material, right? So this really served two purposes, not only was it a more sustainable process, but it lowered our operating costs because we had to purchase less chemical. And so that's actually something that, of course, every business looks at.  And that helps them to be more sustainable.

But I should also mention that actually the very first course within the Chemical Engineering Department, at least at UC Davis is called a Professionals and Chemical Engineering Course. And there's a really large emphasis on ethics in there. I remember my first research paper I ever did in college. Not even just specifically the chemical engineering major was on the ethics of GMO labeling, which was super timely.

There was a proposition on the California legislature that year. And it was really the first time I learned about how many different industries chemical engineers played a role in, right? I hadn't thought much about, food manufacturing before this. I always thought like, chemical engineers, you always go into oil and gas. Right? That's what I thought growing up.

But I learned in this class that, that wasn't true.  That there were all of these different industries. And, you know what I also started to realize in this class that I wasn't sure that the oil and gas industry was right for me. But like I said, this wasn't actually a discouraging discovery because I was learning that chemical engineers are needed literally in any mass production facility.  Food, pharmaceuticals, building materials.  Those are actually all industries that I have worked in so far. And then of course, petrochemicals really anything you can think of. And I just liked the idea that I could still study this thing that fascinated me that I really was interested in and I wanted to learn.  But also go into a field that aligned with, at least my vaguely formed ideas of my values. So I think the ethics and sustainability are really, especially I'm sure even now because it's been 10 years since I took that course. I'm sure it's even more of an emphasis in curriculum for sure.

Amy 11:35

And I wanted to go back to what you said about your capstone project and really how you were optimizing.  Because I think a lot of businesses when they think about sustainability they think about the costs associated with it. And the example that you gave is excellent in showing that actually it can be a cost reduction strategy as well, in addition to having positive environmental outcomes. So, have you seen that in some of the practical applications and some of the jobs that you've had or the roles that you've had over the last 10 years?

Jessica 12:07

Oh, definitely. So, actually my first job out of college, I worked at a cheese plant and so, you know, I actually worked in the protein powder production facility of that plant.  We would take in milk and the first thing we would make is cheese.  And then what's left from that, we would then go and we would separate out the whey and make whey protein powder.  And then we would go and we would separate out the lactose powder. And finally we're left with water because, you know, milk is mostly water. And the, this company, they would actually treat their water themselves and use it for the plant, wash down, you know, irrigating the site and for irrigating crops that were then used to feed the cows that made the milk. And so it was completely circular.  And so I loved that!

Amy 12:54

Fast forwarding to today.  Like I mentioned, you know, I got to hear you speak at Plug and Play Sunnyvale.  By the way, I love that place. They have so many great events.  For anyone who's not familiar with the plug and play concept. It started in Silicon Valley and now it's global. It's great for big companies as well as startups. I got to hear you present there, and it was just so interesting to learn about carbon negative concrete, but I want to unpack this a little bit for our listeners. So if you don't mind just explaining the difference between concrete and cement because I actually hear them used interchangeably all the time.  So, yeah, if you could explain that, please.

Jessica  13:37 

So yeah, I actually didn't even know the difference between concrete and cement until I started working at Blue Planet.  Which my dad would probably be kind of ashamed to hear.  And probably will when he hears this since he's always worked in construction, and I can't tell you how many days he came home like exhausted from projects that included things like pouring concrete.

Amy 13:58

I love that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, right?  Like you're right, working in his industry.  That's amazing.

Jessica 14:03

Yes, it's been so fun. He's gotten to come visit our site. And it's been so fun. It's actually definitely made us closer. But yeah, so basically, you can think of concrete as like a final building material, but it's actually made up of three components, cement, water and aggregates. So the cement itself is really what acts as like a binding agent within the concrete you know, if you've ever walked along a sidewalk and noticed that it's not necessarily uniform in color.  You can see different shades of gray, maybe little pebbles and gravel. That's the aggregate. And then the rest of the layer is cement, and that's what's holding it all together, right? It really interconnects all of that aggregate and allows it to form that one solid slab. So the breakdown of materials in concrete, it's typically 10 to 15% cement, 15 to 20% water and maybe 60 to 75% aggregate.

And all of this, it's, it fluctuates depending on the type of concrete you want to make, you know, lightweight concrete versus heavier concrete. It just depends on in the mixed design.

Amy 15:07

And I guess that depends on the use-case for it.

Jessica 15:11

Yes, the application.  Totally high rises versus bridges will have different mixed designs. And, you know, many people don't really think about it, I'm sure. But concrete is actually the most used material on the planet or most used building material on the planet. It's the second most used material, only coming second to water. And if you start to think about it, you realize like that actually makes sense. It's buildings, highways, freeways, roadways, whatever, bridges, airports, you know, anything in the built environment, it uses concrete.  Maybe there's a distant future like much past our lifetimes. that doesn't have much use for concrete. But until then, it's super important that we start looking at how do we minimize concrete's environmental impact.  Because as it stands, if concrete were a country, it would be the third highest CO2 emitter in the world. It only follows China and the US.

Now the highest carbon footprint within concrete. And it accounts for over 90% of the CO2 emissions of concrete, is the cement itself. But if you remember, cement only accounts for 10 to 15% of the mass of the concrete. So that's, you know, really disproportionate - the CO2 emissions to the mass.  The much larger portion of the material itself is the aggregates. So all of those little baby rocks are making up about 75% of the concrete.  So that's where Blue Planet comes in. Even though the aggregates are not the most intense, the carbon intensive material within the concrete, by making the aggregates carbon negative, you're actually able to offset all of the emissions from cement and then some ,making the concrete as a whole carbon negative.

Amy 16:43

So, so where are you seeing, are the expectation of where it's going to be used?

Jessica 16:48

Yeah. So actually most aggregate worldwide is purchased by government for government-funded projects. And governments really have the power to specify carbon sequestered rock in their construction projects, right? So that's a really important lever that we have. But we also are starting to see a lot of interest in carbon negative infrastructure from private industry. A lot of tech companies are wanting to build carbon negative or at least carbon neutral data centers, and some of this interest might stem from, you know, pressure from consumers or you know, forthcoming policy changes from, you know, these governments like I mentioned.  But I think these companies also really see themselves as leaders within their industries, and I think they really want to be at the forefront of this positive change.

Amy 17:32

Amazing. It's so interesting to learn about, I guess the entire industry, and the buyers and, and I guess the backstory of a Blue Planet. I know that the company is headquartered here in the Bay Area, kind of by San Jose ,in Los Gatos. But the, the actual physical plant is in the East Bay and, and maybe you can explain a bit about the inventor of this technology and, and then why put the location in the East Bay? I mean, is, is the operation taking place there? And as you, as you explain that maybe you could give us a picture of what that looks like.

Jessica 18:15

Right. Yeah, the process for sure. So just a bit of background on Blue Planet. Yeah, we were founded by Dr. Brent Constantz. He's founded multiple companies, and he has over 100 US patents. and he was also previously a consulting professor at Stanford University specializing in bio-mineralization and bio-mineralization. Basically, what we are doing is we are mimicking the, you know, the natural bio-mineralization pathway that CO2 naturally passes through, you know, when coral is made and things like that. But we accelerate it to an industrial scale. And so yeah, we are headquartered in Los Gatos. That is a good location for Brent and a lot of the executive team as they live down more in the South Bay. But really, the plant is located in the East Bay because it is a really good location. We found an emitter that was willing to work with us on this brand new technology. And so we have a site that is right next to an emitter, and it's also actually right next to a waterway which is great as we start to scale up. We can barge material in and out.

Amy 19:30

Oh, right. I didn't even think about that because you're going to need to transport this material. Ok.

Jessica 19:36

Exactly. Yes. Yeah, it's perfect. We have a great location. And we have great partners. And so, yeah, so what we do is we take the emissions that this power plant usually is, you know, they are permitted to emit. And we take just a slipstream of that. Right now we are not large enough to capture all of their emissions. But of course, that is the plan one day.  But right, now we just take a slipstream of their their flue gas, and we capture the CO2 from that. So our process takes in a couple of starting materials, but most of them are waste, right? Like I mentioned that those emissions, those are a waste material. And then the other starting material that we use, the especially, it's actually the largest quantity of the material that we use.  We need some form of geo mass. And that can be steel slag.  It can be returned concrete. And that's actually what we're using at this site right now. We use returned concrete. And we use that to capture alkalinity to then capture the CO2. The returned concrete itself was already a low grade or potentially waste material. And what we do with it actually ups scales it into we call it up-cycled concrete aggregate.  So that is now also available for reuse. And then we are actually, we regenerate the chemical within our process. So we create a circular economy.

So that is why we are located in Pittsburgh currently. But what's great about Blue Planet's technology is that it can really be located anywhere that there is an emitter and an off-taker.  And you think about it. There's, that's really anywhere because you know, anywhere that there is a power plant or an oil refinery or a steel mill or, you know, even a cement plant which, that would actually be serendipitous. Those are emitters. and those are everywhere. And then same with off-takers, any new developer anywhere that roads and buildings and bridges are needed. There's an off-taker. So we really like to say the Blue Planet is paving the way to urban quarries. So it would also if you know, they are located or co located with each of these emitters, it really reduces the amount of transportation needed too.

Amy 22:04

It sounds like it's successful, and you would, then after this pilot has gone through, I guess, couple of different phases, I guess you'll be able to roll it out in other locations in the US. Is that, is that the plan?

Jessica 22:17

Yeah, so we definitely are looking at, scaling up to larger facilities, either on our Pittsburgh facility right now or in other locations, and we do have a team that does go out and scout different locations and, you know, they do what we call a sprint.  And they learn on one day like, ok, what off takers are in this area and what emitters are in this area and they really compile an entire report of if it's feasible to be in this area or not. So yeah, those are all things that we are looking at.

Amy 22:51

Tell us just about your, your, average day, which I'm sure there's no average day, but I kind of have this image of you with your hard hat on out in Pittsburgh, you know, walking around the plant. But what is your day? What does your day look like?

Jessica 23:06

Yeah. So yeah, being such an early employee at a startup, I definitely have a lot of different looking days. But I love that. And yes, like you mentioned some days I am putting on my hard hat and my hot pink safety vest, which is great for Barbie girl summer. So some days I'm putting that stuff on, and I'm heading out to our demonstration plant that we've built. And I am literally capturing the CO2 and turning it into carbonate aggregates. That is actually one thing I did today and I made carbonate aggregates today. It's so rewarding to see that final product in my hand. It's just a tiny little ball, but I know that almost 50% of it by weight is CO2.

Amy 23:45

And how long does that last?

Jessica 23:47

It's permanent. Yeah. So because the bio-mineralization process is all thermo dynamically downhill. Once basically, once this carbonate is formed, it can't, it is permanently sequestered as a solid. And it can't be re emitted.

Amy 24:01

Blue Planet is, is a startup, as you mentioned. And and you know, your current operations, you know, of course, it's incredible but to really be able to get to a price point where you can scale this, maybe, maybe you can talk a little bit about the future and kind of where you see this going and, and when you really see it taking off.

Jessica 24:23 

So yeah, I'll first mention of course, I am an engineer. I am not on our economic or business development team. But what I think is really, it's about getting our name out there.  Getting Blue Planet recognized, getting our name out there and spreading the word and getting legislators to start thinking about carbon negative infrastructure, which they are, but really proving to them that this, you know, demonstration that we have is scalable. I think, you know, once we do that, we are your 2025-2030 solution for climate change, we aren't, you know, 2050 we're not far out.  This, it's, we're doing it right now and we know it's scalable.

Amy 25:06

That's amazing. I mean, you see so many companies setting these 2050 targets, right? It's so far away, and there's so many variables. So the fact that, you know, you can confidently say you're the 2025-2030 solution. I mean, companies should be listening and, and should be reaching out because there's a lot of work to be done to meet these pathways that, that they're expected to, to go on for carbon reduction strategies. So.

Jessica 25:37
 
Exactly.

Amy 25:37

Are you, are you finding that people are receptive and open to using this type of technology or is it a little bit of a wait and see?

Jessica 25:45

I don't know that it's a wait and see. I think people are definitely open. But they do want it to, you know, pass all of your regular same standards that other concrete goes through.  So we actually do, we do have a concrete lab on site, and we do test the compressive strength of all of our materials. Yeah. So I think that many companies just want that data, and then you know, to start small, right, maybe start with a sidewalk, not a skyscraper. But yeah, no, I think that people are definitely, definitely receptive and definitely want to, be like I mentioned, at the forefront of helping to solve climate change.

Amy 26:21

I know you mentioned the founder and, and his incredible background, and he's an inventor. But I think when I had looked at the website, you also have someone on your team who was very instrumental in getting the the LEED certification off the ground. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Jessica 26:38

Definitely. Yeah. So, yeah, we are very fortunate to have David Gottfried. He was one of the founders of both the US and World Green Building Councils. Those organizations are what created the LEED certification system. Actually, he had a house here in Rockridge in the Bay Area. That was the first of its kind home with a LEED certification. it even, it had the plaque, you can go see it.

Amy 27:01

That's incredible because now that's a household term. Right. The certification is used globally.

Jessica 27:06

Exactly. And yeah, so we're thrilled to have him. he is our chief Global Impact Officer. And so he's definitely the person to talk to about, you know, the different off-takers and how we see this going global.

Amy 27:21

Well, now you're going to have to get a little creative. So for our, our final question, if you could have a sustainability superpower, something that would really help change the world for the better, what would your superpower be?

Jessica 27:38

Hmmm. That is so tricky to think about especially as an engineer, you know, I'm so focused on the how most of the time. And so thinking about superpowers and magic, I do, there's a bit of a mental break there.

Amy 27:51

That's right. That's the other side of the brain for you.

Jessica 27:53

Yeah. but I think if I had a sustainability superpower, it would be to make all water clean. You know, just with the wave of a wand. So I like, I mean it like Great Pacific Garbage Patch, completely gone.  Micro-plastics like who's heard of that? You know, no lead, I guess lead it more leads to water infrastructure. So I guess I got to clean that up too.

Amy 28:15

So you have the the wand to clean both fresh water and ocean with seawater.

Jessica 28:22

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Amy 28:25

I love it. I love it. Well, it's been so great talking to you, Jessica. Thank you so much and so interesting to learn about your path. And thank you for sharing about Blue Planet. We really appreciate you joining the podcast and and sharing with us.

Jessica 28:41

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you so much. I was so happy to share!

Lucy (Outro) 28:48

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