The Smell of Money: Perspectives from the Writer/Producer - A Conversation with Jamie Berger

SolPods' Lucy Callender sits down with Jamie Berger, writer and producer of The Smell of Money, to discuss the motivating factors that led Jamie to create this powerful documentary.  Jamie shares her journey and her goal to make people aware of the injustices of industrial animal agriculture and the adverse impact on communities and the environment. Her activism for a better world, better environment, for people and for animals is infectious. One listen to this podcast, and you will want to see her film.

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Transcript

Lucy (Intro) 00:03

Welcome to SolPods Studio. We're not your average social network. We're a community of professionals, enthusiasts and students taking sustainability to the next level. Join us on our journey and get inspired by Earth Heroes just like you.

Lucy 00:18

Hi, everyone and welcome back to another episode of SolPods Studio. I'm Lucy Callender, and today I'm here with Jamie Berger, who is the writer and producer of the film, The Smell of Money.  This is a documentary that highlights the injustices of industrial animal agriculture and focuses specifically on one North Carolina community as they take on one of the largest pork companies in multiple lawsuits and their fight for their right to clean water and clean air. This is absolutely a must see film. Everyone should watch it and we are so excited because SolPods is partnering with a few other nonprofits in the Bay Area to host a screening of The Smell of Money on November 12th in Palo Alto.  All the details can be found down below, but we just cannot wait to bring this film to the Bay Area community and beyond.

Thank you so much, Jamie for being here. I'm so excited to talk with you more and to share your story with our listeners.

Jamie 01:17

Yeah, thanks so much for having me and thanks so much for screening the film. I'm excited for the event.

Lucy 01:23

Yeah, we're so excited.  So I've seen the film twice. I'm excited to see it a third time in a week. But I can attest it is life changing and everyone should see this film. I was hoping you could start by telling us what inspired you to create this film and how you first became aware of the issues surrounding the industrial park industry in North Carolina.

Jamie 01:44

Yeah. So I was born and raised in North Carolina, not in the eastern part of the state, which is predominantly where the pork industries' facilities are concentrated, but more kind of in central North Carolina. But I was only about an hour and a half or so away from the place that we ultimately spent a lot of time in when we were filming. 

And I started to first learn a bit about the environment in high school.  I took an environmental science class and started to learn a little bit about the the impacts of animal agriculture on the environment at that time. And then in college, I sort of, I focused my studies around that issue. So looking at the ways that our food system impacts the environment, but also public health and, and just communities in general, I looked at how the industry, or sorry how the, how animal agriculture affects of course, animals, workers.  And I ended up doing my undergraduate honors thesis on the North Carolina pork industry.  So went to school in North Carolina and wanted to focus my research on an industry that was close to home.  And so I learned North Carolina is the second largest pork producing state in the country behind Iowa.  And there are just about as many pigs in North Carolina as there are people.

The problem is that pigs produce about 10 times as much waste as people do. And in North Carolina, I learned the way that this waste is treated, or not treated rather, poses a lot of problems for not only again the environment but also the people who live nearby.  So during that process, I I learned a lot about the industry in terms of its, its kind of influence over the local government, state government of North Carolina.

I looked at the history of labor rights organizing in the pork industry. I looked at again, it's, it's treatment of animals and, and workers. And I really was struck by this one piece that I, I hadn't heard about growing up there, which was this issue of environmental racism. So in North Carolina, it had been documented that these pork facilities that factory farms or as they're called sometimes CAFOs, which stands for concentrated animal feeding operations, are disproportionately located in poor communities and in communities of color. And again, because of the way that the waste is, is managed in this industry, it has a a very harmful impact on people who live near these facilities.

So in North Carolina, in particular, and in some other states, waste from these hog facilities is kept in basically open air pits, very large pits, that's just big holes in the ground.  And then when those fill up, the waste is sprayed into the air over crop land under the pretext of fertilizing crops. But really, it's just a cheap way for, for these farms to get rid of the waste that they're producing.

And back at that time when I was doing my research, I, I think that was when I first learned about the story of Elsie Herring, who was a resident of, of Eastern North Carolina who fought for more than 30 years for clean air, clean water, and the right, you know, to, just to be able to enjoy her, her family's property.  She was the, the granddaughter of an enslaved man and she had had this land in her family for generations.  And she, you know, went away after, after high school to, to go pursue a career in New York and came back to take care of her elderly mother. And it was at that point that she, she learned or realized that the farmer next door was essentially literally spraying animal waste onto her and her mother's home.

And so I heard about that story back then and I, I was able to interview a number of other people who were fighting this issue. And I think it was that experience of doing that, that research as an undergrad that really made me into an activist. And so from the rest of my, you know, time in college and the rest of my career thereafter, I've been working on fighting factory farming and all of the harms that it causes again, people, animals and the environment.  I had the opportunity to work on this film. starting about now, it'll be six years in, in January that we started working on it. And yeah, this was, you know, this was the topic that, that I proposed because I knew it would be a really compelling story.  I knew that the, the people involved would make for really interesting and you know, interesting characters who audiences I, I thought could really resonate with and connect with.  And so, yeah, started filming again The February of 2018. So it's been a long journey.

Lucy 06:34

Yeah, definitely. I was hoping you could tell me also a little bit about how was it connecting initially with that community? I know you said you were aware of Elsie's story before you even started, but how was it kind of integrating yourself and the film crew into that community and actually getting these stories, because I know this is a really polarizing topic and some people might feel fear for speaking out when the pork industry is such a giant. So how was that?

Jamie 07:04

Yeah, that's, I think that was really the most challenging part for us throughout our filming process was earning the trust of the community members we were working with, you know, they had every reason to be fearful of working with us both because we were relative outsiders. You know, I think the fact that I'm from North Carolina did kind of lower some walls a little bit and kind of give us a little bit of common ground.

But in general, you know, my partner and I who are working on the film, we're outsiders and we're both white coming into largely black and brown communities and saying, you know, we want to be a part of this fight. We wanna help you tell your stories. And I think many of the, you know, the residents who we met had had prior experiences with journalists that, sounded alarm bells for them when, when we came to them because for so many of them, their experience had been that the, you know, the media would come in and they would get their sound bites, they would get their story and then they would just kind of disappear. You know, they would never hear what actually happened with that. It wasn't kind of, you know, the, the work that, that those journalists were doing wasn't necessarily connected to a larger effort to try to address the problem.

And so they had this experience where they had really had this kind of extraction happen where, you know, they, they were kind of exploited by, by these journalists. And, you know, I don't fault people for doing, doing their work that way necessarily if you're trying to get the, the word out about an issue and you only have so much time. You know, I understand the the need to do to do things that way. But for us, I think it took us saying, ok, well, we know we are understanding that we're just going to have to keep showing up, we're going to have to keep coming back. We're gonna have to do this work over years rather than over months. And, you know, we didn't have a sense of the timeline when we started, but it ended up being about 4.5 years that we spent filming and much of that, I think, timeline had to do with the fact that we again really had to take our time to build trust and build relationships with people.

And as you kind of alluded to the other reason that people were inherently distrustful of us, which I think is, is totally valid is that the pork industry has just immense power in North Carolina. It's impossible to overstate how powerful it is. And by speaking with us, they would be, you know, risking, risking their lives, risking their livelihoods.  We heard from so many people that they had been harassed by the industry that they felt really fearful of, of saying anything against it. And we had so many people, you know, say I just won't talk to you. I can't talk to you. And, that's in part because so many people had connections to, to the industry, in terms of their jobs. So we, we heard from people who, you know, who had relatives who work in, in the CAFOs or who had, you know, relatives who drove trucks for Smithfield, and they didn't want to put, you know, their family members livelihoods at risk. We even had one person, you know, tell us that they worked in a school lunch room, and Smithfield has a major presence on the school board. So they were fearful that if they spoke to us, they could lose their job. And so we, we were definitely up against that kind of fear in these communities and fear of us as, as outsiders and as white people coming in and, and not necessarily, you know, doing this for the right reasons. I think we had to take our time to, to show that we were in it for the right reasons. And because again, the, you know, the, the risk, the personal risk of speaking out publicly against the industry is so high.

So we ended up really focusing on people who had already been active in terms of, you know, being spokespeople for this issue, Elsie Herring, who again is one of our, our main characters of the film and Renee Miller, who also is, is very outspoken, you know, had already had this history of, of incredible advocacy that they have done that had they had done. And, you know, for that reason, I think we're more, more willing to, to work with us and, and to share their stories, but it was still something that we had to be very cautious of and, and sensitive to and, and again, it just took a lot of time to form those relationships.

Lucy 11:25

And were there any moments while you were there that you felt fearful or your crew felt fearful because of Smithfield or because of what was going on?

Jamie 11:35

Yeah, we, there's a scene in the film that, I'm, I'm glad we were able to capture, which was, we were filming from a public road just filming, a factory farm from our car. And, the farmer saw us and kind of tracked us down and he, you know, drove by and he was followed by a number of, of police cars and he, you know, he's kind of pointing at us like there they are, there they are.

And, they essentially blocked us in, they surrounded us and I was driving, they came up and spoke with me and, you know, the, the police officer basically just said, you know, what are you doing out here? You know, why are you out here filming? You're stirring up trouble and you better watch out, you better be careful. And, you know, again, we weren't doing anything wrong.

They had no grounds for even pulling us over, let alone, you know, arresting us or doing anything like that. Fortunately, they didn't. But their whole, it was clear that the whole purpose of that was just to try to scare us, just to try to intimidate us and, and make us understand, you know, the power dynamic that's at play in those communities.

And, there was one other time when we were filming, again, some factory farms and there was a house nearby and someone came out and just cocked a shotgun at us and kind of gave us a threatening look. And so, you know, of course, we were like, all right time to get out of here.

Lucy 12:56

But, oh, my goodness.

Jamie 12:57

There definitely was this real feeling of, of just kind of fear in the air of real feeling of intimidation. And that was so familiar to so many of the people who we spoke with.  And, you know, for us, I think again, our, our race protected us. The fact that we were, you cannot, you know, we're kind of could say we're, we're filmmakers, we're not from here. That gave us some protection, but had we had, you know, Renee in the car with us when, when that first encounter with the police happened or, you know, had it been her doing what we were doing, I don't know that she would have been able to get out of that situation in the same way. So that was something that we were always really conscious of. that as much as we felt that kind of intimidation, it was so much more, you know, severe and pressing for people who actually live in those places.

Lucy 13:47

Absolutely. And you can really feel that when you're watching a film, hearing each of their stories and how they are afraid and, you know, having to block their windows just for fear of being threatened or being hurt. It's, you can feel it and it's heartbreaking. I know after seeing it and after speaking with you, there's been so many hurdles and so many challenges and, and finishing this project, going up against Smithfield has been so huge.  And I would love to know what have been aside from all of the challenges, what have been your biggest triumphs in this process?

Jamie 14:23

I mean, I think the kind of the flip side of what I was just speaking about in terms of, you know, the challenges of earning the community's trust was when that finally started to happen, it felt, it felt really good to know that, you know, we had, had put in the work and had, again, showed up over and over and finally were kind of breaking some ground in terms of having real relationships with people.

I think the other kind of biggest, you know, I would say wonderful moments for us have been actually after the film was released. So, you know, just being able to, to show the film to people all over the world has been absolutely incredible and made all of the hard work leading up to that point, really worth it. 

When we first released the film in, in festivals, we had our international premiere at the Hot Dogs festival in Toronto. We were actually able to take Rene and a friend of hers up there with us and she was a part of, you know, the, the Q and A, the panel after, after the film. And it was just amazing to have her there and, you know, to see her, her story reflected on that huge screen for the first time.

And we've also done some really incredible screenings in, you know, in universities and with, with different kinds of community organizations. We did do one in Eastern North Carolina. That was wonderful. We had a lot of people who are directly impacted by the pollution from this industry come and see it. And it was so clear that they were really moved and felt, you know, felt a lot of validation and felt a sense of pride in, in knowing that their stories were, were reflected in the film and were presented in a way that they felt felt good about. And I think, you know, having, having the struggle that you've gone through for so long illustrated in that kind of way can feel, you know, feel like, feel quite meaningful. So it was really wonderful for us to be able to share the film with communities in that way.

Lucy 16:31

Wow, that's wonderful. And I guess that kind of actually leads into another question. I wanted to ask you, which is with your experience as a writer, filmmaker, storyteller, how do you see that power of storytelling in shaping public opinion and driving social change?

Jamie 16:49

Yeah, that's a great question. I think for me, it's always been a little bit of a struggle throughout this process to sort of balance my the activist side of me and the filmmaker side. I think as, as activists for, you know, for a better world, for, for the environment, for people, for animals, we have a tendency to just want to reach people in and, you know, we have this kind of desperate, desperation to the way that we approach our work sometimes in the way that we just hope that people will hear us out and understand, you know, maybe just hear the facts of, of an issue and then be sort of instantly converted to our side and, and go out and, you know, change their lifestyles or, or vote a certain way. But I think, you know, as a filmmaker, I had to sort of say, actually it's important that people watch this movie and find it entertaining.  It is a movie after all. So, you know, I think, for us the way that we approached that was by trying to tell really, really human stories and to, to, you know, work with people again, people like Elsie, like Rene, like some of the water keepers we worked with in our film, people who have, who, who can captivate an audience and who have this kind of just deep, beautiful humanity that people we knew, you know, our audience would, would connect with.

So I think, you know, our goal was, was really to try to, to expose an issue that, you know, we could have spent a lot of time in the film, just kind of hammering, hammering down facts about, you know, we could have included a lot of research, there's so much history to it, there's so much kind of complexity to it. But at the end of the day, you know, we really had to kind of just keep coming back to a pretty narrow focus on the people themselves, the experiences that they were having and just this kind of this just very sort of basic injustice that was going on in terms of people literally not being able to drink clean water or breathe clean air and have animal waste, rain down on them. You know, that was something that we felt like if we can just get across the fact that that is just such a blatant wrong, then that's something that everyone will be able to connect with.

There's no one in the world who would say, oh yeah, sign me up. That's the kind of life that I would want to live, you know. And so I think as far as the story, we felt like the more that we could really just keep the focus on that and on the people and their real, you know, lived experiences, the stronger, the more powerful it would be as an advocacy tool and just as a film itself.

Lucy 19:32

Definitely. And I think seeing the film can awaken that activist part of anybody. And I'm sure you've, you've maybe had to give this advice before or had people coming up to you asking this. But what advice do you have for activists and advocates? Maybe young activists who want to do what you do or just want to get the word out about a cause that they believe in so strongly like this.

Jamie 19:57

Yeah, I mean, I think this might sound a little bit cliche, but I would say one piece of advice is just, don't underestimate yourself. I've struggled definitely throughout this process with a lot of imposter syndrome. You know, I didn't go to film school. I don't have a background in, in journalism. And, you know, I never really anticipated that I would end up making a documentary.

I kind of fell into video production on accident, kind of via writing. But I'm so glad that I, I took the chance to work on this project and just learned along the way and was able to connect with a lot of amazing people who, you know, were really supportive. So I think that's, that's one piece of advice. 

I think also something I learned in particular from Elsie is to kind of try to find a way to connect with an issue that you care about on a, on a human level, on a personal level.  I think for me as an activist and, and, you know, coming at this initially, first from an academic perspective, I've always kind of looked at issues relating to the food system, to the environment, to, you know, social justice from a very kind of systems level. And I do think that's important for us to do because it's, you know, these are systemic problems that we're dealing with.  They're deep rooted institutional problems that are going to require systematic change, you know, systems level change. 

But I think if we focus too heavily on that and we work only kind of at that level, we risk burning out. I think we risk kind of losing that more emotional connection to the work that we do. The more personal, the more human connection to the work that we do.

So I think the experience of working on the film for me was, was so important because it got me, you know, it literally got my hands dirty. It got me into a place where I was able to watch this problem, you know, from, from a very close you know, close vantage point and, and interact with the people who are, who are really living it and, and be a part of their fight.  And I think if I had only ever, you know, if my activism had only ever taken the form of kind of this back, you know, kind of backseat distanced view in terms of looking at it systemically, it would have been really hard for me to, to stay motivated. 

And the reason I mentioned, you know, I get inspiration related to this from Elsie is that there's this one scene in the film that I really has kind of, has kind of hit me differently watching it the past few times where Elsie is, she's coming out of, out of a, a van on their way to the appeal related to the, the lawsuits that they're, they're, they've been a part of. And another character says, oh, you know, this is a movie star right here, talking about Elsie. He's like, this is a movie star. And she, you know, turns to that person and says, I, I'm just fighting for my family, that's all.

And I found that so powerful because I think, you know, we asked ourselves so many times throughout the process of making the film, how did she keep going? This is someone who is fighting for 30 years up against a, you know, billion dollar industry that, you know, she never expected to actually win. She never thought, you know, that realistically in her lifetime, she would remedy this problem for herself and her family.

But it was that connection to her own family that motivated her to keep fighting. She wasn't, you know, after this big win against Smithfield just because, you know, she knew that was wrong. I mean, of course, that was part of it, but she was seeing with her own eyes, her family members fall ill and, and be affected by this issue. And it was, it was that kind of relational element for her that kept her going. So I think again, for me as an activist, I've recognized the, the importance of that and in community building and being connected with other people and the, you know, the experience of, of both working on the film and having those kinds of connections come about and then building more connections with people throughout the release process has been ha has been just really healing and really helpful for me. you know, trying to, trying to keep going in, in the face of this kind of the enormity of this problem.

Lucy 24:25

Yeah. I think something you just said, I think really stuck with me is just making this a personal, personal issue or any, any topic like this. I feel that a lot of times if it's not in your backyard, if it's not something you can see or in this case, smell and feel on your skin, it's hard to understand maybe. And I think that's why films like this, they're so important because you could, you could never be there physically but you understand the impact that it's having and while it's not impacting your family the way it's impacting Elsie's, when you know that I'm going to the grocery store today and I'm going to buy this. When you can see what that's doing to someone else, it changes everything for you. So I think that comes across so strongly and just hearing Elsie's words saying this is for her family, this is for her livelihood like that, that transcends everything,  It goes across so many different families across the US, across the world.  So I think that's really powerful.

Jamie 25:34

Thank you.

Lucy 25:37

Yeah. And I also, I wanted to know what do you think is next for you? And what do you think is next for The Smell of Money? What are your long term goals and dreams for it?

Jamie 25:46

Yeah, I'm, I'm excited for the next phase for the film. It's like I said, it's been such a long process. I never thought it would be more than, you know, half a decade and I'd still be working on this movie. But that is what, where I am still, you know, people ask me what's next, what's next. And like, I'm still really focused on trying to make sure that we, you know, maximize the impact of this movie.

Again. I'm an activist, I want this to make a difference. I didn't make a movie just to make a movie. So the more people who watch it and who, you know, make a change again in their own lifestyle, who become more politically active, the better. And so that's what I'm focused on right now. really trying to make sure that we reach a lot of just kind of mainstream people, you know, mainstream audiences, but also people who are directly impacted by this.

So we're currently, you know, in the process of, of our theatrical release, and we screen the film in theaters in New York and Los Angeles. And our next kind of phase of that is to show the film in places that have a really high concentration of factory farms or, you know, or in kind of more rural areas or more agricultural, heavy regions. Because we want the film to reach people who, who are directly affected and who are fighting this fight because it doesn't just happen in North Carolina.  CAFOs have been exported all across the country, all over the world. So this is a fight that so many, you know, thousands of people are engaged in. And we want the film to be a tool for them to, to educate themselves and to educate their communities. We really want it to be, have always wanted it to be an advocacy tool, a movement building tool for people.

And I'm really excited to see that it is, it is playing that role. In North Carolina, for example, right now, there has been an effort over the past several, several months to get people to weigh into a public comment period about the permits that regulate how CAFOs manage their waste.  So this is a once in a five year opportunity essentially for, for North Carolina residents to weigh in and say we want this to change.  We don't want our neighbors to be dealing with this problem to be sprayed with animal waste and have this pollution in their communities. So, it's, it's been amazing to see this coalition of organizations has used the film as a tool to try to mobilize people to weigh in and to submit comments. And they've done screenings across the state at universities.  And that's exactly the kind of dreams and areas for me is to see, you know, organizations that are doing this kind of work on a grassroots level on the ground, take the film and plug it into their advocacy with, you know, a clear ask for people to get involved in, in the fight. 

So I'm loving, you know, loving seeing that happen and definitely want to do more of that kind of outreach to make sure other people who care about this are able to use the film in that way.

Beyond that, we'll be releasing the film on what's called kind of video on demand services. So like Google, Amazon and others, hopefully before the end of the year, we're thinking potentially as, as early as end of November, maybe early December. And so you can, you know, stay tuned for updates about that, but then it'll be, you know, widely available for anyone to watch and it will be in hundreds of countries all over the world.

You can pay just a small kind of you know, rental fee to watch it. And, you know, we're gonna put everything we can behind that too and make sure that we're marketing it and make sure that we're advertising and reaching people ,encouraging them to see it. And then, you know, from there, we'll see, I don't know what's next.  We have so much footage that we weren't able to include, of course, in the 84 minutes that this film ended up being so much that's really compelling, really powerful, and I would love to maybe revisit some of that and see if there's something that we can do with it.

Lucy 29:42

Yeah. Great. And what can our listeners do both to support the cause? But also to support your film and get more eyes on it?

Jamie 29:53

That's a great question. I would say, in terms of, you know, supporting the cause, generally, we all have the power to, to start making changes because we all eat. So as you kind of said earlier, you know what we're eating does translate into real harm or benefit for, for people who are affected by this issue. And so I think that's just something to keep in mind when you go to the grocery store, you know, when you eat out.  You know, the message of our film isn't, isn't go vegan or go vegetarian overnight. But I think definitely moving in that direction, eating less meat, you know, thinking about maybe Meatless Mondays or something like that to, to start to lessen your impact, you know, both of in terms of your impact on, on people, but also, you know, reduce your, your harm to animals and to the environment in general.

There are so many benefits to, to reducing meat consumption.  Your own personal health. So I definitely encourage that because it's the first step. It's an easy step that we can all take. 

I think another kind of big recommendation I was I would make is think about and try to try to learn about what environmental justice issues are happening in your own local area.  No matter where you live, there are environmental justice problems. You know, it's just universally, almost universally, the case that polluting industries, harmful industries are located in communities that have less power to fight back against them. And so those of us who do have that power or do have, you know, the means or the resources to join that fight, I think, you know, it's important that we do. It's important that we learn about, you know, where is, what is, where is my local landfill? Where does my trash go? Who is impacted by my, you know, the trash that I produce? That's just one example. But there, there are so many different, you know, environmental justice issues that we can plug into.

I think supporting local black, black- and brown-led organizations that are doing work on that front is always really important, whether that's financial support, donations or volunteering with them in North Carolina, we worked a lot with the North Carolina Environmental Justice Network that does incredible work across the state to help communities fight environmental justice, injustice problems. And I always recommend checking them out and donating to them if you're, you're interested in supporting their work. 

Beyond that, I would say, you know, I think again, as I've alluded to, it's important to get politically active, run for office. You know, I saw, when we were working in North Carolina, there was one incredible young person named Da'Quan Love who ran up against a deeply entrenched very ag-friendly of the North Carolina State House, I believe.  And although he lost, I saw that his campaign generated so much enthusiasm and passion and, and interest and raised a lot of awareness among, you know, his neighbors about the issues that, that were important to them. So I think I always want to encourage people, especially young people to, to think about running for office. And if not, you know, support a local candidate, support somebody you believe in, help them get there too.

I think we'll, we'll only ever see real change happen on this issue when people who are not protecting us and not protecting our neighbors, not protecting the environment are, are out and we're the ones who have to make that happen.

Lucy 33:21

Absolutely.  And for anyone wanting to watch the film, make sure to check out The Smell of Money dot com and make sure to check out where all the screenings are for sure, because there might be one in your area and it's coming soon. Very exciting.

Jamie 33:38

It's smell of money doc dot com like the dock. And yeah, so we have all of our screenings on our website, local, local screenings, you know, theatrical screenings and if you're interested in hosting one, you can also request to do that. We have a, a screening request form on our website.  We pretty much allowed just about anyone to, to host screenings. So, that's, you know, the primary way that we're getting, getting the film out into the world for the time being until it's more widely available.

Lucy 34:08

Ok. Well, I know we're so excited to host it shortly and so excited to bring it to the Bay Area community and interact with other nonprofits who are so passionate about it as well. And we're so, so excited for that. And lastly, I have a fun little question for you. We ask everybody this at the end of every podcast. If you could have a sustainability superpower, what would it be and why?

Jamie 34:38

I think, I would have to say I would probably choose the power to make everyone go vegan. Because, you know, as much as I, as I said, you know, it doesn't, that doesn't have to happen for everyone. I know that kind of diet is not, you know, accessible to some people and it's not something that for many of us we can just do overnight. It's such an amazing way for, for people to take, you know, take their kind of power back and say, I don't want to be a part of this system. I don't want to be a part of a system that is so harmful to, to people, to animals, to the environment. And, you know, if I could find a way to make it easier for people to do that, my superpower was, was transforming the world in that way. I mean, we would have a world without factory farming. We would have a world where people are so much more, you know, cared for and you know, aren't subjected to the kind of injustices that we have in our film. We wouldn't have slaughterhouse workers, you know, suffering under really horrific working conditions. Climate change would be much less of an issue because animal agriculture is one of the leading readers to, to climate change.  So there would be so many, so many different kind of sustainability issues, environmental issues that I think would would benefit from that kind of worldwide shift. So that's probably what I would choose for for my superpower.

Lucy 36:22

It's a really good one.  I love it. And I think you're right what you said before, I mean, this can be something that people take into their own hands. There's so many resources now and so many ways to shift towards more plant-based lifestyle. And it's easier than it's ever been and it doesn't have to be perfect, but it's definitely a way, a way to make a difference in your daily life.

Jamie 36:49

So I'm glad you mentioned me one day we will get there. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned it. You know, it really doesn't have to be perfect. I wanna, I wanna emphasize that that every little bit helps every, every, you know, piece of meat or animal product that you leave off your plate is, is a good start. So definitely encourage, encourage that and don't encourage people to, to aim for perfection because we're bound to fail if we do that.

Lucy 37:15

So yeah, that's, that's a big thing we talk about a lot with our team at SolPods.  How can we, how can we teach people? It doesn't have to be a certain perfect way, because that is also like what causes burnout and what causes frustration or, you know, better to do one thing than do nothing, whatever it is, whether it is just educating yourself, watching a film so, so easy to do, you know, or reading resources that are so readily available now.

So any small step anyone can take definitely in the right direction. But thank you so much, Jamie for everything you're doing. I mean, it's just incredible and so inspiring to hear your story and just to get to speak with you. And thank you for taking the time with us.

Jamie 37:59

My pleasure. Thank you so much for the work that you all do at SolPods. I'm so excited to see your community growing and again, so, so grateful to you all for bringing me here to the podcast and for doing the screening. I'm really excited for it and, and very, very grateful to be able to say that the film is screening through you all and, and all your amazing nonprofit partners as well.

You all have really exemplified the power of bringing people together for something like this and bringing, you know, a lot of different groups and organizations together. So I really love that. I'm so so proud of the collaboration that you all are, are doing and really, really happy to be a part of it.

Lucy 38:45

Thank you so so much and real quick, I want to mention.  So smell of money doc dot com is where they can find you as well as Smell of Money doc on Instagram.  Correct?

Jamie 38:51

Yep.

Lucy 38:53

OK, perfect. And everything will be linked in the show notes. So if anyone wants to learn more, make sure to check it out and see if there's a screening in your area or if you want to host one, fill out that form. But thank you again so much, Jamie and we'll be in touch soon.  I can't wait for the screening.

Jamie 39:07

Sounds great. Thanks so much, Lucy.

Lucy 39:12

OK. Thank you 

SolPods is partnering with Acterra, Menlo Spark, and 350 Silicon Valley to bring a free screening of the Smell of Money documentary to the Bay Area. We're so excited for this event. It's going to be taking place on November 12th from 2:30 to 5 p.m. at the Palo Alto Art Center. Refreshments will be served before the film and afterwards, there will be a virtual Q and A with Jamie.

So if you're interested in learning more and asking her some questions, this is a great event to do so. If you want to RSVP, remember it is totally free, but make sure to RSVP ahead of time to secure your spot. If you want to learn more about the Smell of Money and ways you can get involved, then make sure to check out the smell of money doc dot com. It will be linked below as well as their social media.

You can check out full list of screenings there. You can also watch the trailer, and to stay up to date with any upcoming virtual or in person SolPods events in the future, make sure that you're following us on social media and that you have joined our online platform. Thank you so much for listening or watching, and we'll see you next time!