From Bees to Brew: Skeptic Meadery Masters an Ancient Craft with Local Flare - A Conversation with Matt Loch

SolPods Co-Founder Cassie Freyeisen sits down with Matt Loch, owner of Skeptic Meadery, to chat about the unique process of making mead, an alcoholic beverage made from honey, water and yeast. Skeptic Meadery sources honey in East Tennessee, helping to promote local biodiversity. They avert food waste by accepting and utilizing fruits and herbs which would have been wasted otherwise. Not to mention, they collaborate with a local orchard to provide delicious beverages for community events. Mead is the bees knees - listen to learn what the buzz is all about!

Learn more about Skeptic Meadery: https://www.skepticmeadery.com/
Visit Breedan's Orchard: https://www.breedensorchard.com/
Join the American Mead Maker's Association: https://mead-makers.org/
Stop by Mount Juliet's Farmers Market to support local honey producer Ralston Farm and other small businesses: https://www.mtjuliet-tn.gov/Search?searchPhrase=farmers%20market

Join our free platform: SolPods
Check out the SolPods Website: www.solpods.org
Follow us on Instagram: @solpods.earth
Follow us on Linkedin
Follow us on YouTube

For questions, email us at: hello@solpods.org

Transcript

Lucy (Intro) 00:03

Welcome to SolPods Studio. We're not your average social network. We're a community of professionals, enthusiasts and students taking sustainability to the next level. Join us on our journey and get inspired by Earth Heroes just like you.

Cassie 00:18

Welcome back to another episode of SolPods Studio. I'm Cassie Freyeisen based in the Nashville, Tennessee area. And I'm joined here today with a local friend, Matt Lock, owner of Skeptic Meadery. I had the pleasure of meeting Matt at a local event a few months ago at Breeden's Orchard in Mount Juliet, Tennessee. He was selling mead and I had absolutely no idea what mead was. But when I saw honey, local fruit and wine ran on the board next to him. I had to learn more. Matt. I'm so happy you could join me here today.

Matt 00:45

Thanks for having me, Cassie.

Cassie 00:47

So, Matt, what in the world is mead? And really how does it differ from cider or wine made from grapes?

Matt 00:54

Well, yeah, as you said, wine is made from grapes, and cider is made from apples or beer is made from grain.  Mead is made from honey. So it is the world's oldest beverage, and they believe it predates both beer and wine. And it's a very similar process as far as wine making goes, except you don't have to crush anything. You just dilute honey with water and then add yeast, if that's what you'd like to do, and it ferments out to be anywhere from 6% alcohol by volume to upwards of 18.

You can serve it chilled. You can serve it room temperature. You can mull it over the stove with, mulling spices. and then you can add pretty much anything you can imagine to it, to enhance the flavor. It's very dexterous.  Even though it's the world's oldest beverage, it actually, has a kind of a resurgence right now. Not too many people know about it, but it's starting to get more and more popular.

Cassie 01:52

That's so cool. And I'm glad you're part of that. I'm a big fan of wine, but now you've converted me to the mead side. So thank you for doing that. Tell me a little bit more about yourself and how you really got into meadery.

Matt 02:05

Yeah, sure. So I had been going to school at the University of Pittsburgh, for chemistry and at the time I had some friends who were getting into brewing beer. but being a poor college student, I, you know, wanted to brew something. but I didn't want to get all the kit that came with making beer. So, at the time, I was also reading a book that they had mentioned mead, and they described it as being sickly sweet and disgusting.  And I thought there's no way that you can, you know, something made with honey is gonna be gross. So, I found a easy recipe online. Tried it myself, used a baker's yeast, bread yeast for it. It was passable, but I figured I could do better and that was about 15 years ago. And that's been one of the only consistent things. Since then I've worked a variety of odd jobs, lived in a couple different places, and the mead making has kind of followed me throughout all that.

I enjoy making it. I enjoy talking about it. And one of the things that, kind of how I came up with the name Skeptic, is whenever I tell people like, hey, try this wine made from honey, they kind of give me a weird look, but it's a, it's a kind of a sneaky play on word because those old timey, woven beehives that they would use in Merry Old England are called skeps. So I, I thought that was clever.

Cassie:  3:29

That's so interesting. And I love how it's been really a passion project that you've just brought to life kind of through experimentation. And also, you know, your, your university degree that you kind of put those two together and now you're doing something that you love. And I think that's really admirable.

Matt 03:43

Thank you.

Cassie 03:45

So, bees and honey are such an important part of your process. And could you maybe explain how you really advocate for honey that's sourced here locally in Tennessee? And really in your view, what is kind of the significance of supporting local biodiversity?

Matt 03:59

Yeah, absolutely. One of the big things with, you know, making mead is that, you know, the standard mead recipe is just honey water and yeast. And so the quality of all those three ingredients is going to play into the final flavor of the product. Actually, when you are drinking a glass of mead, you're drinking a flavor of the local area because as bees go out and they forage for nectar, you know, they only travel about a mile away from their hive.  So you're getting a very intense local flavor of wherever those bees are located. So, if you have a standard mead, which is just a honey water and yeast, you're gonna taste, you know, the quality of all those three ingredients. So if you're getting a nice local honey, you know, from East Tennessee, which is where I get my honey, you're gonna taste what that area, you know, tastes like.  But if you get, a mead that's made with honey collected in West Tennessee, it's gonna taste different. Or if you get a, a honey from Pennsylvania, it's gonna taste different. Or if you can even, switch it up a little bit and get like a, a monofloral honey. I've recently just made one with tulip poplar honey. It tastes radically different than like a wildflower honey, which is a mix of a bunch of different things have previously made chicory blossom honey, which has a very sort of almost like a spicy roasting as that you would expect from chicory and it's very unique. So it's fun in that way that you can experiment with different honeys and kind of see the story that the honey wants to tell.

Cassie 05:30

Do you try to choose different honeys based on what kind of recipe you're putting together? What kind of flavor combinations? Or do you like to really kind of support the same local vendors? And you because you know that those are, you know, good quality honey and you also want to support that local Tennessee, those local Tennessee bees? Or do you like to kind of source different places for different varieties or different flavors of your mead?

Matt 05:54

For the the bigger batch stuff, I do use one specific honey house out in East Tennessee. and that's just for the quantity of the honey that you need. and they're able to maintain quality and kind of ensure that quantity that you need. Honey doesn't grow out of the ground. It, it takes a long time for the bees to collect enough to, to make a gallon or five gallons or 25 gallons.

So, for a lot of my big production brews, I'm using the same type of honey, which will change over time as far as like early season, late season, all that, you know.  The people who work at the honey houses do their best to try to blend it, to try to maintain a certain flavor profile. But, you know, there are some small, small changes. but one of the things that I love doing is I love buying from small local beekeepers, that, that are maybe just hobby beekeepers, that they're just trying to get into the hobby. And so that way you can kind of really taste the unique flavor of their neighborhood. Plus, it also puts a little extra money in their pocket so they can build more colonies and kind of increase the hobby. But I'm also not opposed to buying unique flavors of honey.  You know, just like the chicory blossom. It doesn't grow anywhere around here, but it imparts a really unique flavor that can really do well to illustrate the terroir of, where that comes from.

Cassie 07:19

I love that approach. And my husband, daughter and I, we just, drove a couple of miles outside of Mount Juliet to get some local honey from one of the producers that we met at the Mount Juliet Farmers Market. You know, and like you mentioned, it can really, you know, the taste can really be dictated based on where that those bees are. And this honey is delicious.  So I'll be sure to share the, the farmer's market, but then also the the vendor of the bees. they're, they're just delightful. I love how you support these small local producers. I think that's incredible business model that you have. I also wanted to just mention that a couple of months ago, we had a podcast with Aidan Wang. He's a beekeeper out in California. And he really explained the importance of protecting bees and how really environmentally sensitive they are. And he said that we can actually use honey bees as a tool to look at our environment and to see the practices that are going on around us. And are we actually having a good impact on the bees around us? It's, it can really, you know, dictate what we need to do differently. Do we need to make sure that we have more yards that have, you know, more, more flowers and natural blooms and stuff? You know, are we making sure that our streams are clean and our waterways are clean? So bees can really be a good tool for understanding what's going on in our environment and how do we, as people in society, need to change? I think you're in a business that really does make a difference, how we treat our bees and how we're actually treating our environment as well.

Matt 08:52

Absolutely. Yeah, they're, they're very much the canary in the coal mine, just for how sensitive they are. Even just little things is like our yard. We don't grass seed or anything like that. We kind of let it go wild. We'll mow, of course, leave it a little bit longer. But having that variety of, you know, wildflowers just kind of growing and all that can really make a difference for the local pollinators.

One of the big issues is, you know, colony collapse disorder, which I had listened to that podcast and that was something that he had talked about, which absolutely correct, you know, affecting honeybees. But one of the other things that people tend to forget about are the solo pollinators. You know, worrying about the, the bumble bees and the mason bees and the carpenter bees. You know, no one's out there making masonry, you know, mason bee farms, you know, apiaries. So it's anything you can do to help those wild pollinators too. We, we really do wonders to kind of help the local environment as well.

Cassie 09:55

Absolutely couldn't agree more. I have a garden, and we do the same thing. You know, we try to let our grass but grow as long as possible. Then also I have lots of flowers, lots of local flowers too. So I think anything that we can all do, you know, a little bit more during those crucial times for the bees and for biodiversity in general, I think it just goes a long way if we can all just do a little bit more, you know, we can have a healthier or sound world. So thank you for that. You know, at SolPods, we advocate for sustainable practices and especially supportive culture of limiting waste. And I love how at Skeptic Meadery, you really take that into consideration. Can you explain how you avert local produce waste and happily accept fruit and other products such as herbs getting wasted?

Cassie 10:42

Yeah. So Skeptic Meadery is on the on site at Breeden's Orchard. And one of the things that I'm really passionate about is kind of being right there where the produce is. And so one of the things that I love to do is for peach season, you know, if they've got a really big bumper crop or something like that and peaches start to, they don't look as pristine, they call them ice cream peaches, but they're the great peaches for like baking with or something like that. They may be over ripe, something along those lines. I love getting those peaches and then processing them and then brewing with them as a sort of way to make sure that we're not wasting them. Same deal with the apples, same deal with. I've actually one of my favorite meads to make is a tomato me where I crush the tomatoes, blend with the honey and then ferment all that together. That one's really a fun one that comes up from time to time.

Again, one of the reasons I name the place Skeptic is when I say, hey, you wanna try this tomato mead, but tasting is believing. So, so that tends to go out pretty well. Yeah. And then also, you know, on site of the orchard and also, you know, my partner's home farm that they've grow herbs and things like that. And so I try to incorporate those into my brews. And I try to source as much as I can from the immediate area or, or local farmers as much as possible.

All the waste that we do. anything that I use for fermentation, any solids gets composted and then we use a septic system to kind of help go out and then irrigate the fields as well. You know, all the chemicals I use break down into natural consumable products. Nothing harsh, nothing toxic. Everything is, is as friendly as, as we can make it. And then one of the other things that they're talking about up at the orchard that they would love to do is get some solar up there to, to kind of cut down on that sort of power consumption from the grid as much as we can. So, that's, that's a ongoing discussion and it's something that we're really kind of all passionate about up there on the hill.

Cassie 12:56

Every event that's held at Breeden's, it's, it's so lively and so fun and there's so much always to learn, they're always teaching, you know, around circularity or, you know, reducing waste or just supporting local businesses. I think that you chose a really great location to set up. So, and I love that you guys are composting, you know, you're not using any of these harsh chemicals and, you know, you're really just taking these steps into your business that I think a lot of small businesses, businesses could, you know, really take some of those tips and, and put those into what they're doing. So I think that's great.

Matt 13:25

Thank you.

Cassie 13:27

You're welcome.  And another point on the sustainability front is really from the sourcing standpoint. So I understand that mead is truly a local product and compared to a lot of beers which use barley or hops that are typically grown from the Western or Northwestern part of the US, you know, mead is, is a really good sustainable option, let's say for people, can you maybe speak more about this in your sourcing practices?

Matt 13:52

Sure. Yeah, I mean, a lot of times when you think about the agricultural industry, you've got problems with soil depletion from growing mono crops and that sort of thing.  With beekeeping, you know, one of the primary ways that people make money off of beekeeping is they truck their hives out. And then, you know, to pollinate, you know, the almond trees in California or something like that. And one of the ways that it's speculated that causes colony collapse disorder is that you've got all these different bee colonies from all across the country kind of commingling. And maybe the bee from North Dakota are immune to a certain disease, but they carry it with them. Now they're infecting bees from Florida or, or something along those lines, you know. So it's, it, you've got that comingling there that has deleterious effects on the bees population. But when you try to monetize local honey, you know, it makes it more likely that the owner of those bees. Well, hey, maybe I don't have to truck my bees out to California anymore to do that. You know, I can stay here and work on my colonies and grow them here and kind of enhance this honey business.

Additionally, one of the main benefits of having bees is it increases crop yields, like fruit, say fruit trees, it'll increase their yield 60%. So, one of the things that we'd love to do is have bees at the orchard just to help with the peach trees and the apple trees. And then we could also take that honey that is a side product of the pollination and then brew with it and then your, your I'm able to kind of benefit on that way as well. And so like that's that's just something that it really kind of has a long term benefits as a, as a for the environment as well as for a business.

Cassie 15:46

I think that's really cool that Breeden's thinks about these things as well. So making sure that you do have those, those honey bees right there by the orchard. You know, it's just a very, a process that's touching all elements, and I also like that as well that it's not just thinking about the peach trees and their harvest, but it's really think about how can we embrace our local environment as well.  So that's great.

Matt 16:09

Because then, because then we'll be able to come out with the standard mead that's the Breeden's mead, you know, the, the taste taste, the orchard. You know, there's, there's beehives on top of Vanderbilt University. And I would love to get some of that honey and so you could taste what Vanderbilt University you know, tastes like. So we'll, we'll, we're working on that and we'll hopefully get there one day.

Cassie 16:32

Absolutely. And there's also bees on top of Alliance Bernstein building. So, right down there, you know where the, there's a lot of the food vendors like within that area right downtown, they have bees on top of their building as well, which I think is amazing. So it's really starting to pick up. I think that people are really starting to notice that these, you know, things that we can do as businesses are going to make, I hope make a difference for the environment, the local community that we live in. So I think that's really cool to see. I wanna ask you, Matt, if someone wanted to jump into the mead making business, how would you suggest they get started? You know, what are maybe some of the roadblocks you faced in your time and your years in doing this?

Matt 17:14

Yeah. So, when I started my mead-making journey, I was self taught. I read about it in a book. I looked up something online. I had never tasted a commercial mead because, you know, 15 years ago, there weren't too many available in, in Pennsylvania state stores. I kind of started on my own. But, you know, looking online, looking for resources for, for help. You know, one of the things I love about the mead making community is that it's, it's still relatively small, and it's prevailing mindset is a rising tide raises all ships. And so a lot of folks are really eager and excited to help. You know, I like to say it's easy to make mead. It's more difficult to make good mead and it's most difficult to make good mead repeatedly.

So don't get discouraged if your first batch winds up tasting like rocket fuel. Don't dump it, please don't dump it, bottle it and then age it. Because a lot of times mead requires a lot of patience. It could, you know, traditional methods take about maybe six months from brewing to bottling at, until the time that you have something that's palatable. You know, it, it ages like a wine. So it may take maybe two years, three years, five years, 10 years. I've had some really nice older meads that just tasted divine. And the only way to get there is through patience.

Don't be afraid to experiment. You know, don't let people tell you it can't be done. One of the biggest roadblocks that I've encountered opening up. you know, a meadery was people just don't know what it is.  In Tennessee in general, you can count the number of meaderies on one hand. When I first started messing around with this, they didn't really know what mead was and it's like, oh, well, you know, do you wanna be classified as a beer or a wine? You know, so you have to do your research and come prepared because things tend to progress more when you've got suggestions for the path to go, you know, you know.  Ask questions. Absolutely. But, you know, stay positive and and, and keep moving forward. And then also there's the American Mead Makers Association, they're really good advocacy group, a national advocacy group.  Sometimes they, they push stuff through congress or, or try to get clarity on things. They are really great resource for setting up like a business plan or putting together like a pitch deck. And then it's also just a really nice community of mead makers, you know, professional mead makers. they can give you feedback and, and give you opinions and, and things like that because, you know, if there's one thing, the mead making community hasn't access its opinions.

So definitely, definitely spread that net wide and, and try to get as much information as you can.  But, but don't be afraid to kind of step into that uncharted territory because starting a business is, is scary. You put a lot on the line and especially in an area where, you know, you say you're a mead maker and people say meat like a butcher, like I've, I've heard that more times than I care to admit, just gotta keep doing it. And you know, maybe the first five minutes of your pitch is explaining what it is. But, you know, after the first sip, you've, you've got a winning, you've got a, a customer on your hands. So just keep at it and, and don't be dissuaded.

Cassie 20:31

Keep at it, use the resources around you maybe join an Association Mead Makers Association, like you mentioned.  Just try to convert all the people out there that might be interested. And I will say I've watched a few people when I was chatting with you, people come up to your stand and they don't know what it is. But then they take that sip and they're really interested and they want to learn more and I think that's so cool to find a product that you've never had before. But there's something intriguing around it and I saw a lot of people, they come to try your product and then they end up buying a glass or buying a bottle and it was really exciting to see like they had no idea what it was, but they tried it and they said, wow, this is really unique, really interesting. I want more. So, I love your advice there. You know, keep going, stay motivated, use your network and, you know, stay passionate about what you're doing as well because you obviously need that passion to produce something, you know, so unique and so beautiful.

So we've talked about Breeden's a lot. And, you know, you have your shop, you have your, your meadery there. How can others here in the national area come and support you and support Skeptic Meadery?

Matt 21:35

Well, it's still early days right now. You know, my, my mead is available up at, up at the, the orchard. We're looking into getting into, a handful of bars and restaurants and maybe it is, a liquor store or two. I can't mention any names yet, but, but we're hoping to have something starting in 2024 if not sooner. And, I think the best way to stay in touch now is, is follow on social media, you know, Facebook or Instagram.

I've got a website, you know, Skepticmeadery.com. I try to update that as much as I can. We, we haven't had an official grand opening yet.  That's coming in the spring. So stay tuned for that and hopefully we'll be able to grow, grow out and you'll be able to find us other places as well.

Cassie 22:28

And if there's a business or a farm that was interested in donating products to you for your mead making, are you open to that? Because that might be an area for collaboration. There might be some farms or, you know, some businesses that might want to donate honey to you as well. Is that something that you'd be interested in, in working with them on?

Matt 22:45

Absolutely. I mean, I've, I've already had a lady come up and say like, hey, I've, you know, we always have a more figs than we know what to do with coming off of our trees. Like, is that something you think you can do something with? And it's like, absolutely. Bring them on down. You know, previously, I've had a guy just set down a big old paper bag filled with pawpaw and he's like, hey, can you do something with this? And it's like, hey, let's figure it out, you know, we'll, we'll do it. So, yeah, absolutely. Reach out to me. you know, I've got a contact form on the website or just on social media. Like, I'd love to talk if, if you've got honey, that you're interested in, in selling, you know, absolutely. Talk to me about it.

Cassie 23:27

So that's wonderful. I love that. And maybe you can also think about, being at some of the local farmers markets too in the future. That could be great. You know, I know you're busy at the orchard, but maybe from time to time sneak into some of the farmers markets would be awesome. But I love that, I love that you're willing to, you know, take donations of, you know, products and that way you get also those local products.

Matt 23:45

Absolutely

Cassie 23:47

You mentioned the pawpaw and that's a local Maryland fruit, correct? I think that's local to...

Matt 23:55

they kind of grow in this band. There are pawpaw that you can forage. It's, it's a very difficult fruit to actually try to grow because it needs to grow in the kind of underneath the tree canopy. And so, you know, folks who are expert foragers at pawpaw, they don't tell you where they go because they've got their spots. But we, we're actually trying to see if we can maybe grow some or, or seed some and some under, you know, some under some canopy trees. and hopefully we can maybe make it a more regular thing, but you know. Well, time will tell.

Cassie 24:28

Cool. I love the fig idea. I'm a big fig person. So if you put that into the blend, let me know. I would love to try that.

Matt 24:35

Absolutely. Yeah.

Cassie 24:36

Big fig girl. So, what products are you really excited about on the menu right now? And going into the holidays? And I can really imagine some cool festive flavors that you're brewing right now.

Matt 24:47

Sure. So, I've got one available for retail now that's a chocolate cherry mead. I had first made that for my sister's wedding reception. It was, you know, everybody at the wedding reception took a bottle home to celebrate and then I gave my sister and my brother-in-law a case of it to open a bottle on every anniversary. So I, I kind of incorporated that recipe and, and it's available for sale now.  We were gonna be bottling cranberry orange mead and then more standard mead. This batch of standard, I don't know what it was about this seasonality, the honey or something like that, but it's just one of the best ones that I've done yet. And then I also have a more experimental Spruce Tip and Juniper Berry. So kind of like tasting a Christmas tree a little bit. That one's really, that one's really fun.

Cassie 25:38

Sounds delicious. OK, Matt, I have one last question for you and I need to get your brain bubbling a little bit. So as a wrap up, we really like to ask all of our guests this question to close out our, our our episode. If you had one sustainability superpower to help change the world for the better, what would it be and why?

Matt 25:58

So I think I would have to say, if I could shoot beams of patience out of my eyes, that would be the thing.  Kind of imbue people with more patience. You know, a lot of times, you know, we as a society like to rush, rush, rush, hurry, hurry, hurry, let's get things now, let's get things today, without that sort of long-term patience. You know, whether it comes to, you know, an infrastructure repair program where you're putting in sidewalks and bike lanes or, you know, investing in, in the local green space to, you know, planting small twigs of trees. You know, people, people want answers and solutions today, but you need the fortitude and the wisdom to be able to plant a seed for a tree knowing that you may never sit in the shade and, and, you know, having patience, you know, with the brewing process, you know, you can't rush things sometimes that, you know, the use is gonna take as long as it takes and sometimes that's how it is, you know, sometimes the batch that you just brewed tastes a little off or something like that, just sit on it and, and let it, let it age out and, you know, taste it in a year or two.

You know, it, it, it kind of, I feel like we would benefit as a species if we were able to have a little bit more patience with each other and and, and with our surroundings.

Cassie 27:27

That's beautiful and thinking about nature, things take time and that's the beauty of our world is, things aren't always ready, you know, tomorrow. But if we take the time that they need and we give them the love and the nurturing, then at the end of the day, we can have some beautiful things or beautiful products or beautiful relationships with people. 

So thank you, Matt so much for being here today. I learned so much about the mead making process when I first met you. I had no idea what it was and you really opened my eyes to mead making in general. And I really hope that others go out and explore this delicious drink with friends and family over the holidays. You know, we cannot forget that small business Saturday is right around the corner, on November 25th. And I really encourage everyone to support small local businesses like Matt's business, Skeptic Meadery who are not only making amazing quality products, but they're really taking sustainability into account into their business operations and into their approach.

And if you're in the national area or living, you know, living in this area or visiting in December. Don't forget to stop by Breeden's Orchard for your next mead tasting.  Check with Breeden with their social media handles just to see what exact dates that they'll be having events.

I couldn't encourage you more to go check out that beautiful orchard, check out the meadery, you know, learn more about Matt and his products at Skepticmeadery.com.
And again, Matt, thanks so much for all of your guidance, all of your stories and thank you to our listeners as well. So until next time.

Matt 28:56

Thanks, we'll see you up at the meadery.

Lucy (Outro) 29:03

SolPods Studio is made possible by listeners like you. Join the free SolPods platform to become a part of our virtual community of change makers. Links to our social media, website, and platform can be found below in the show notes. If you enjoyed the show, feel free to rate and review our podcast. Thank you for listening and for your support.