The Thumb Throttle Podcast
Sport quad XC racing
The Thumb Throttle Podcast
Back in the Saddle, Covered in Mud
The Four Wheelers podcast makes its triumphant return after nearly a year away, diving straight into the heart of the 2024 GNCC racing season already three rounds deep. Hosts John and new co-host Devin waste no time dissecting the championship battle brewing between defending champion Bryson Neal and perennial contender Walker Fowler, separated by a mere five points at the top of the standings.
What makes this season particularly compelling is the depth of talent capable of stealing wins. Beyond the two championship frontrunners, riders like Wyatt Wilkin, Josh Merritt, Hunter Hart, and veteran Adam McGill have all shown they can challenge for victories, creating a level of unpredictability rarely seen in recent years.
The conversation takes an analytical turn when addressing the controversial incident between Josh Merritt and Adam McGill, offering balanced perspectives on aggressive racing tactics while considering the broader implications for younger riders watching their heroes. This thoughtful discussion highlights the hosts' deep understanding of racing etiquette and the sport's nuances.
The episode's centerpiece is an illuminating conversation with eight-time GNCC champion Barry Hawk, who shares insights about his new Hawk Rider Development (HRD) training program. As the only racer in history to win championships on both ATVs and dirt bikes, Hawk offers unique perspectives on rider development, teaching methodologies, and the importance of properly set-up machines. His candid thoughts on parenting racing children and recognizing when passion comes from within versus external pressure provide valuable wisdom for racing families.
Whether you're a dedicated GNCC follower, an ATV enthusiast, or simply appreciate the mental and physical challenges of off-road racing, this comeback episode delivers the perfect blend of racing analysis, behind-the-scenes stories, and expert knowledge that reminds us why Four Wheelers has been so deeply missed in the ATV racing community.
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hey sport, you race four wheelers it'd be a lot cooler if you did and welcome back everybody.
Speaker 2:It's been a long and overdue hiatus where we've kind of disappeared off the map for, oh man, it's probably been almost a year now. But we're back and there's some new faces, there's some, uh, some people on sabbatical and uh, but we're gonna, we're gonna keep going on this, because I always keep getting asked you know, when you coming out with another one, what's going on? Do you guys quit, what I don't know. So last year was kind of a busy year for everyone. That didn't really leave much room for extracurricular activities such as podcasting, eating, sleeping, um, and anything of the sort. So, uh, my normal co-host you all know him, the, uh, the lovable three, one, four has stepped away for a while to concentrate on his studies and, um other interests, and we are adding a part-time co-host to the full-time lineup. Now I would like to introduce everybody. Warm welcome to none. Only devin, masters, devin, what's up?
Speaker 1:hey, what's up? Man, let's, uh let's keep rolling with this and uh try to be consistent, as be as consistent as possible, and uh see what we can do for the the fans of the show, see what we can come up with. So I'm excited to uh be helping with this uh venture and hopefully we'll have Colton back soon enough. But for now I guess it's listening to us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh. So I mean, it's just our luck to have a teenager on the show. So they're, they're unreliable and uh, unpredictable.
Speaker 1:So you, you play the card you're given if you ever figure that out, then uh, let me know, because I'm gonna have a teenager soon enough yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm testing the waters here and I will let you know how that goes. But you know, one good thing is I have one other co-host in the waiting. She uh, she really doesn't know much about racing, she just likes to talk and say hi and kind of pop in and pop out. Um, but she's, she's available if we ever needed one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe she'll stick around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she might, she might. Right now she still likes me, but I was man last year. Man, what a year. I mean you can speak to it for yourself. I mean everything kind of just hit at once and um, I mean, we were doing really good there for a while, like one every two weeks, and then then the race season kind of ended and you know it was I don't know it just and then it started and we got away from it and man, it just, uh, I really missed doing it, um, and I, I, I miss being able to, you know, give people something to listen to. As far as you know, the four wheelers go, because there's nothing out there, and that's what I'd always hear is man, I don't, I don't have anything to listen to on my way to work, or, you know, I'm really missing the racing. So we're back, baby.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, uh, I know you got pretty busy. I definitely got busy, so they didn't leave too much room for us to be able to do anything else. But hopefully we're good now. I'm pretty excited about this year. I don't know about you, but I think we can get some good shows in and the competition is going to be good for us to to be able to talk about. So, yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're actually a little bit behind on what our, what our covering is Um, we're already three races, three races deep into this and um at one local race. So we kinda, we kinda looked at it and said, you know, what do we have time to do? Because if, if we kind of pigeonhole not pigeonhole herself but commit ourselves to do a ton of these podcasts like every week or every other week, I don't know realistically or you or I could ever even live up to that right now. And uh, you know, one of the listeners had had messaged me when I was talking about coming back and you know, before you and I even spoke and he said, you know, why don't you just do one you know, once a month and recap whatever happened you know that month? And I thought, hey, if they're, if people are fine with that, then I'm good with it too, because you know it gives us a little more content to talk about um, the.
Speaker 2:The downside is we're not going to have as many guests. But you know that that could change. We could have multiple guests on um and then we could have multiple guests on Um and then we could turn into one of these like eight hour podcasts. Um, but knowing you and knowing me, that's, that's very possible, because we're long winded and we just start talking and we never shut up.
Speaker 1:Well, that's, that's 100% true, but I think doing it this way definitely allows us to be able to have a little more to talk about. Uh, obviously it's cool getting the guest on every week, but I think it's also cool to be able to have a little bit of time, to be able to get a little more action in there, be able to have a little more to talk about instead of some of the off-the-whim stuff that we come up with and talk about. You know, some of the off of the whim stuff that we uh come up with, yeah. So, uh, maybe it'll help us stay on point if we um have, uh, a little bit bigger gap in between.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's that's a very relevant thing to uh, to kind of uh, how to look at it, because before it was like I mean, I know myself and that's why I like having you on as a co-host is because you're like, you're the encyclopedia of racing and gncc and and atv racers. I'm just, I'm the face and I mean we kind of got a raw deal on that because it's not like uh, you know the hollywood face, but I I was finding it kind of hard to really find enough stuff to talk about that uh and I I felt out of my league sometimes but and that's why I liked having you on here, because you were, you were the voice of, of kind of like knowledge.
Speaker 1:I was just the uh, the on-air personality but I would, uh, I would use that knowledge word pretty lightly. I would say there'd be some people that definitely would uh have a difference of opinion on that. Well, um, but you know, I'm 26 years old and my dad raced before I raced, so I've been around racing my entire 26 years of life. So you pick up a few things along the way, um to be able to talk about, right, like just things through history of racing and and just different aspects of ways to look at things, and it just creates this whole other, whole, other vision that, uh, I feel like a lot of people don't get to see, because not everybody grows up their entire life doing this.
Speaker 2:So, right, I like the fact that you think I'm knowledgeable, but let's just, let's just go with it, we'll put that, we'll put that persona out there. So let's not, uh, we'll fake it till we make it and uh, we won't let anything out of the bag.
Speaker 2:So all right, let's, let's just jump right into it. We are three races in. Bryson, as pretty much expected, is is leading. He, he kind of I don't want to say fell off, but wasn't the, wasn't what everyone was thinking of? You know what Bryson would do, and I'm not saying that in any bad way, but you know he came back and and definitely showed that. You know, if somebody wants it, somebody wants it, they're going to have to take it and you know really putting the pressure on Walker, and you know now it's I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the two possible people that we have to have the discussion in right now is is Bryson and and Walker.
Speaker 2:However, what we haven't had in a lot of times in the years past and I don't want to like again, I don't want to say this to to rain on anybody's parade, but if anybody else won before it was, uh, you know you had one or two people. You thought, well, now we have several people. You have, uh, you have Wyatt Wilkin, who's won a race. Josh Merritt Um, you always have Adam that's lurking out there that can win a race at any point in time. You got Stephen Harrell coming up. Hunter, I mean, Hunter is always a threat to win any race race. Um, if he can kind of get past this, this voodoo that's been following him, um, he's definitely going to be a force to contend, contend with um, and there's just there's tons of them out there. Um, you know, you got brandon owens out there now. Uh, it's that I'm pretty excited about the, the xc1 line that's coming up.
Speaker 1:I am too. I think it's like you said. I think there's a lot of people that could win on any given day, given the circumstances be correct. Bryson's not. Bryson has shown that he's human, so he can lose. He also made sure to come back and make a statement. Right, you could?
Speaker 2:look at make a statement, right.
Speaker 1:You can look at that a couple of different ways, but I think at this point in the in the season it's kind of early, definitely looking more like the the Bryson Walker show, and I think if some other people want to get in on the action, they're going to have to step up quick, right. So that's just kind of my opinion. Uh, you look at it, you're going into round four with a five point gap between bryson and walker, but then it's uh 29 points from walker to hunter who's sitting in third. So that's a pretty big gap after three rounds when you have the top two guys within five points of each other. So I think definitely, uh, somebody's gonna have to step up soon if there's going to be any change in this championship. But it's definitely looking like bryson is uh trying to make a, trying to make a statement for sure yeah, I, I believe that's it.
Speaker 2:And and he's like they always say, winning the first one's the hardest, and then you gotta, you gotta defend it. And then you know after that, you know he's he's talked about, you know how hard it is and you know the stress and the weight of it probably never will be, and you know, barring in any kind of medical miracle. Um, that makes me 20 some years old again and invincible. But uh, you know, just when he came out these last two races and, like you said, it was kind of like a statement, kind of was like, if you're going to beat me, you're going to beat me at my absolute best and I'm going to go down and giving you everything that I had. And then you know to hear Walker say, I heard something that Walker said and I haven't talked to Walker about any of this.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I think Walker's kind of just laying back and playing the, uh, the focus game right now, um, but I've, I haven't been in contact with him, but you know he even made the, the comment once, I think it was after a race. He's like, you know there's just I'm not willing to go that speed that Bryson is at points in time. Um so, with that being said, how do you, how do you think this plays out, how do you think what is the path that that Walker takes to regain his number one plate, and what is the what has to happen for you know, bryson, to lose that number one plate?
Speaker 1:Well, in my opinion, walker has to get the whole shot. Every time Walker get out front and do what Walker does, which is try to sprint away and run his race. Uh, you look at the last two races Bryson won by a minute and 47 seconds in Florida and that whole, other than with the exception of the first lap. Walker was in that whole race but he wasn't controlling the pace. So then you look at Talladega and then Bryson wins by two minutes and 27 seconds, and then Bryson wins by two minutes and 27 seconds. So that whole race. Literally every lap that they checked in, walker was second place. So you can't give Bryson the lead and let him control the pace.
Speaker 1:Walker did lead for the majority of the first lap, but as soon as Bryson got out after Walker made a mistake, it was on. It was like putting blood in the water and Bryson knew that he had to run. So he just put the hammer down and said all right, here's my chance. So you know, like, lap two 45 seconds ahead. Lap three a minute and 40. Lap four two minutes and 28 seconds. Walker can't give him that kind of room to work with. He's going to have to be there the whole time and be a thorn in his side to make sure that he knows that he's there. So walker wants to win. He's going to have to get out front, control the pace and make sure that he rides mistake free as much as possible no, I, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:Um, if you give and and bryson's been shown to have proven this time and time again if you give him that space out in front where you can't see him anymore, you're basically just hoping that he runs into a mechanical somewhere, because it it may be, you can speak to it more, um, but it's like once he gets out there, like he doesn't have that, that other layback speed. It's just like like just kill and and keep adding time and keep just hammer down the whole way. There's no, all right, I'm looking at pit boards. I got a minute lead, I'm just gonna. I mean, there may be times where he's forced to kind of take care of the bike, um, but it doesn't seem like that he. It just seems like from from the 10 second call until the checkered flag drops, he's just in kill mode the whole time.
Speaker 1:Well, the thing is is he's in such phenomenal shape that he can ride a hundred percent the whole race. Yeah, he's not worried about whether he's going to get tired, he's not worried about any of that stuff. He don't need to pace himself, so when the flag drops, he can ride 100 the whole race. They don't have to show him a pit board to manage a lead, because he doesn't care. He just knows that he wants to win and he knows how to get there. So that's, ride 100, get it to the finish. Barring that he has, barring that he doesn't have a problem with the bike, right, right. So he has an issue with the bike. That's a different story.
Speaker 1:And he's gotten to the point where he's smart enough to know that he needs to conserve the bike to make it to the finish, where maybe in some years past he uh, he didn't quite do that, um, but still. I mean, with that being said, like you, you just to beat him, you're gonna have to be on top of your game, and walker's even said that. Walker's, exactly like you said, he said that he does not, he is not willing to take the chances anymore that it takes to run that speed. So that's why I say walker has to get in the front, he has to control it with knowledge, not speed. So I think I think walker could run a second place race all day and beat him, just based on experience from dealing with people like porch or battles with adam or stuff like that, um. So I think walker just has to use his race craft to his advantage, whereas bryson's just like okay, well, I'm in good enough shape, I'm just going to go out here manhandle this bike for two hours yeah, and there's no denying.
Speaker 2:I don't think anyone would would um disagree with the fact that bryson is probably the most physically in shape, physically adept pro out there right now, and you know that's not taken away from anybody else, it's just that that's. That's the way it is. I mean, I think that that has a lot to do with it. Obviously you have to have a lot more to go with it. You just can't be in good shape and go out there and win, win these races. But it doesn't hurt to be in the kind of shape where you can ride two hours at Talladega and say, man, I wish I could have went another lap. You know this. You know I I'm not even tired at all. I have no idea what that would even feel like.
Speaker 1:Well, I think Bryson. There's definitely nobody that's going to argue that Bryson's in great shape, but I would say Bryson is the most in-shape rider across ATVs and dirt bikes. I think he is more in shape than the XC1 dirt bike guys. So that may be a controversial statement and people may disagree with me, but I don't think it is. I think he is the most in-shape guy at a GNCC when it comes to the racing side of things. So that's just my opinion.
Speaker 1:I think some of these other guys are catching on, though I think that over the course of the next couple of years we're going to see a lot more people in that role. Stevie Harrell I think he's going to be there. I think he's. I think he's going to be there. Wyatt wilkin I think he's going to be there. Um, hunter hart I think he can still figure it out. I think he can be there.
Speaker 1:So you got some of these young guys that are coming up that they can do it. Um, even jay shad. Jay shad is still in a position where he can. He can do stuff right, like look at all the stuff he's overcame and he got a five at Florida, which is one of the most physically demanding races of the year. So you have a whole bunch of people in this class that have the ability to, over the next quarter, over the course of the next couple of years, kind of be where Bryson's at as far as eating right, getting in in shape, doing all the things that you're supposed to do to be able to run with him.
Speaker 1:So then, I think over the next.
Speaker 2:Bryson's definitely going to have his hands full and do you think like that's the next evolution of, of the sport? Because, like you, look in all these sports and everyone that's had championship runs, uh, consecutive championship runs, or dynasties, or you know what it is, whether it's it's individuals or teams, they've always seemed to figure something out ahead, and if not ahead a lot better than other people have, and been able to ride that for a while. And then everyone kind of figures it out and then slowly that edge gets lost, um. So I mean I think now, uh, just with the way sports are, that everyone realizes that you know physical, um, physical ability and being in shape is a major part of it. It's not just all training, it's it's, you know, training and and lifting and cardio and and eating right and getting enough rest and making sure that you don't overdo it. Because there's a thing that you know you can overtrain you can work your body into exhaustion and become to the point where you're getting, uh, diminishing returns, um, and I think that's like kind of where we at, where we're at, as far as the next evolution, like like, if you could, kind of like like when Walker was winning his, his championships, he would just get out there and just ride two minutes ahead of everybody.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, chris Borch, was he just kind of sit back there and and get you on the last pass? Um, and now you know you add somebody that is just phenomenally fast and has got the physical in shape and the physical fitness part of it down. I think it's a matter of time before everybody else kind of figures out that. I think they all know it, I think that it's different for everybody. So when everybody kind of figures out where they need to be, then I think you're going to see that kind of catch up I think, uh, I think what you see when it comes to champions is every champion finds a different way to win.
Speaker 1:So borch learned his lessons from bounce and then he took those lessons and he figured out okay, well, I can just sit back here and I can wait until the finish to win. Then you have fowler come along all right. Well, he's used to getting passed by borch at the end of the race. So what's fowler start doing? He starts adapting his riding style so that he can do sprint speed at the beginning of the race. So what's fowler start doing? He starts adapting his riding style so that he can do sprint speed at the beginning of the race, because nobody else is doing that. So then he kind of comes up with this and obviously he had to be in good shape. But he starts being the first guy to be like okay, well, I'm just going to go out in the beginning of the race, I'm going to sprint as hard as I can and then I'm going to manage the race from there. Then you get to Bryson and Bryson's like okay, well, I'm just going to be in so good a shape compared to everybody else that I'm just going to ride the whole time I can go and that's how he wins his championships.
Speaker 1:So now we're at a point where it's harder and harder to find that little bit of extra stuff, because now you've seen an evolution of okay, here's how hawk did it, here's how bill bounce did it, this is how chris sports won his races. Walker figured out this. Then bryson gets to a point where it's already transitioned so many different times and then he goes well, I'm just going to be in really good shape and then I'm going to just sprint the whole time. Well, once you get to that point, then there's less things that you can adapt to figure out what the edge is other than just yourself.
Speaker 1:So riding style becomes a lot less prevalent on how you win, as, like where we're at right now, with like, you're going to have to eat right, you're going to have to be in training camps, you're going to have to be doing all of these things, because if you're not, then you're just not going to have that competitive edge. So that's what I think we see is just that transition of okay, here's a seven time champ, here's a nine time champ, here's the six time champ, here's another six time champ, here's Bryson and neil multiple time champion and it just takes a little bit for everybody to figure out like, oh, okay, well, if I do this, then I can win, right.
Speaker 2:So there's just a little bit of a delay where you have to catch up to it and I think, looking back on it, it's a lot easier to kind of figure it out because you know, to put it in simple terms, it's like, okay, somebody figures out, I just have to go fast, really fast, for one lap and I can win these things. And then somebody else is like, okay, well, I just got to go fast for two laps. And then, you know, bryson comes along, he's like, well, you know, uh, they figured out, fast for one lap, fast for two laps, fast for three laps. I guess I just got to go fast the whole lap, uh, the whole race. And once you got that figured out, then you start, like you said, it's starting to kind of like micromanage everything and trying to pick up little things that everyone's missing.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, but I think that's what we've seen. I think we've just seen a transition of everybody figuring out the puzzle pieces as they went and now we're putting that puzzle together. So now everybody's getting more to an even playing field, because everybody knows what the pieces are. Now you just got to figure out how to put them together yourself. So that's kind of my outlook on it. But you know, I think as this season goes on we're going to see a lot more people that are stepping up and presenting some problems. Do I think that somebody else is going to step up and battle for the championship? I feel like it's probably still going to be your top two guys battling for the championship, but do I think there's a race or two here and there that we might see some of these guys figuring out that puzzle?
Speaker 2:100%. Yeah, yeah, and we've seen that. We saw that last year too, with, you know, Josh Merritt winning and and Wyatt winning, um, you know, and then, uh it just you hadn't seen that in the past, it was. You know, uh, one one pony show, um, and then sprinkle somebody in there because of a breakdown or something. But you know, now you have, you know, Josh Merritt, who is a threat to be on the podium every race. Same with Wyatt.
Speaker 2:Um, there's two guys there and, like I said, with Hunter, Hunter is always a threat and you know, I I remember being down at action, um, the action off road camp, and Hunter was down there, and what struck me most about Hunter was, I mean, obviously the dude is ridiculously fast and I think any of these racers are ridiculously fast, um, but just talking to hunter and having him explain, like what goes through his head, not necessarily in a race, but in like seconds, because he's trying to explain, like you know, what he would do in this certain section, and you know, I look at it as like, okay, I got to come out of this turn and basically kind of keep it straight, keep it off this tree and set up for the next turn and do it as fast as I possibly can without killing myself. And then to hear Hunter Hunter's like well, okay, well, I got, I get to come out of this turn be in the berm on the gas. When I come up out of this, I know that there's three other humps here. I have to kind of be on the gas through it, Kind of uh, feather my clutch when I'm landing, I want to be like on three quarter throttle. Oh, and, by the way, if it's raining out, I want to reach down and grab some sand, put it on my grips and I'm like dude, I'm just trying to like not die, You're.
Speaker 2:You're trying to like pack every bit of knowledge you have in every 10 feet of the raceway. And it's just that that's one thing that's always stuck me with Hunter is just how he mentally thinks about the game and and I've I don't want to say this and cast a negative shadow, but I think sometimes he he'll overthink it and that that I think that can be his biggest enemy sometimes is just, and you know as well as I do you can overthink things and over complicate them, and it's. It's not a bad thing, it's just. You know so much and your, your brain works in such a way that you know you. You just run through those things and sometimes the best thing is just let it go and and hold it wide open.
Speaker 1:So for sure, I mean there's even to the, the timing of how you hit something, um to to kind of go on what you're talking about. The timing of when you come out of the turn versus where you want to land is crucial. Like there's a whole lot of moving pieces when you're trying to travel at a higher rate of speed. That and I'm not even going hunter speed, but just the things that go through my head when I'm riding is it's, it's crazy, right, like there's just there's so many things that you're expecting to go perfectly right and sometimes it does not always go right. Uh, those are the days that you're like oh boy, this is not good um, ever watch.
Speaker 1:Uh, when you're watching, like talladega nights, and he gets flipping through the air and he's like oh no, yeah, I'm flipping through the air, yeah, yeah, sometimes like that, um, but yeah, there's a lot of moving pieces and there's just a lot of things that you're thinking about and you only have a split second to do it right, and if you're off in that split second, it can be very detrimental to your race. So it's crazy to think that you can do that many things at once, um, but once you do it enough. It kind of becomes second nature, like parts of your parts of you are just naturally doing stuff because it it just already knows that it has to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, muscle memory.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, your muscle memory kicks in. You got enough practice going it. Just, it just goes on its own. So sometimes you can get rid of some of the stuff that you're thinking about just by your body knowing what it needs to do on its own. So, but it is crazy the amount of stuff that you have to pack into a split second of racing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'll be. I'll be honest with you. My 90% of mine is just thinking, either Am I going to be able to take this next breath, um, am I going to be able to hold on to the bars, and am I going to miss this tree? And then, after I process that, then the pretty much the thought, just you know repeats itself for the next hour and a half.
Speaker 1:Am I going to make it to the finish?
Speaker 2:And if I do, please God, let it be just behind the eventual race winner yeah, I do not want that extra lap.
Speaker 1:Uh said I want to be at the front of the people that got lapped do? I want to postpone my misery yeah, that's, everybody's got to have goals. Yeah yeah, some goals are just different than others.
Speaker 2:Right, right, so do we. And I know you and I have talked about this in the past. And well, in the past just you know, probably a couple of weeks ago when we were on the phone talking um do we address the? And it's been a couple of weeks of pretty much everyone's kind of the like, the, the hoopla and the, the uh, the mobs have kind of simmered down over this Um. But we're an ATV show and we discussed GNCC racing and and local races and and talk to people. So I think we owe it to the fans um to actually touch on the uh, the Josh Merritt and Adam McGill um circumstance. So I'll let you lead it off and then I'll chime in here and there. I'll let you lead this segment.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I see what you did there. So that way, that way, when everybody wants someone to point a finger at it's a little sneaky sneak. Yeah, I see that. Well, that's the real Jeremy McClure thing to do right there.
Speaker 2:Well, and, and here's the thing. So I know both guys and I'm not saying that I'm great friends with either one of them, but you know, I I know them well enough to talk to him on a track about things other than racing. Um, I think highly of both of these guys. I'm just going to put that out there. Um, I think highly of both of these guys. I'm just going to put that out there. Um, when I first saw it, obviously all I saw was was what adam did, um, and, like everybody else, I had the initial reaction based on what I saw. It wasn't till after I saw the other footage and took some time to actually process it and think about it, um, that I came up with my opinion.
Speaker 2:And I mean, I'll be honest, I'm kind of caught in between the aggressive riding style Um, and I say that not because of I necessarily disagree with it. I say it as being a father of somebody that races, and I don't want to. I think there's there's a place for it, and and you can do it in a way that is very respectful and and and kind of pass it off as aggressive racing um. But I also know that there's a fine line there that if you don't have somebody with the abilities of josh merritt or adam mcgill or or bryson, or you know, any of the xc1 pros that it be, it can become a little bit dangerous. And that's pretty much where my main concern with it was is now we're doing some home remodeling. If you hear some, some banging and some drills.
Speaker 2:Um, that's where my main concern is, because you're going to see some of the youth kids that necessarily don't have this skill other than being able to hold the throttle wide open, and they're going to see that and they're going to say, well, you know, I can use this guy for a berm or I can come into this turn a little bit hot, as long as there's somebody beside me, that I can use them to straighten out. And I think there's a very precise set of skills that you need to have in order to be able to do that, because I mean, you have, if you're doing that, you have two open wheels that are spinning at one speed and two that are spinning at another speed, and if they happen to climb on each other, somebody is getting launched. Um, but I also agree that you know, like they say in in in NASCAR, rubbing is racing. I think there should be that level of expectation that you know you're going to have aggressive racing, but I think it should be done.
Speaker 2:Um and this is asking a lot I think it should be done with, with the forethought that you know. Obviously you don't want to hurt somebody and and I don't think that some of the kids and some of the people that don't have the experience, that they do possess the the ability to foresee all the circumstances that could come out of something like that. So, there, I didn't, I didn't completely set you up, but I did speak my opinion. I I I think there's a case to be made that is both right and wrong for both of them.
Speaker 1:Well, it's pretty well put. So I've known both of these guys forever and I think it was definitely an incident that probably shouldn't have happened to begin with. But my opinion is probably not the most popular opinion. I think the end result of the whole thing should have been that both of them got disqualified just because of the situation of how things went down. Um, initial thoughts. You're watching racer tv. There's no footage of what happened before the finish. There's none of that, right, so you're just going off of. Oh man, adam just freaking, crushed him coming through the finish and then crushed him apart, uh, jumped off his bike and did some things and I know Adam has already apologized for that and Adam knows that he shouldn't have done that, right, right, so he'll be the first one to tell you that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's the first guy to say, hey, you know what I've messed up. But with that being said, there's two sides to every story, right? So the video footage comes out, you watch the video and then everybody says, oh well, that's just an aggressive pass. Well, I mean, in the circumstances of the race and the way that things were going, I think the pass probably could have been done a little bit better. For sure, I think that neither one of them were in the right. But if you want my honest opinion, I wouldn't have passed somebody like that. That's not how I would have set that pass up.
Speaker 1:If you want to make that pass any day of the week, you're going to have your bike set up sideways before you get into the turn. You could tell that there was some intention to use him as a berm to get through the turn. It's nothing against josh, it's just an aggressive pass at the end of the race, right, right, but a little too aggressive. That was a. You hear the throttle come on closer to the turn than what it probably should have been and the bike should have already been set up sideways a little bit sooner than what it was in slick conditions and stuff like that to be able to cut around the inside of that tree and not slam at him the way that he did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and not to cut you off, but to just add something here, like in a situation like that it's always it could go either way it that you could have ran that turn 10 different times and got maybe 10 different scenarios where you know Josh would have got off the gas just a little bit sooner or he did, you know, maybe tried to set up a little bit and was able to set up. Maybe he got, maybe he got rutted in there and and wasn't able to turn that off. Um, but you know, with high risk comes that that probability that you know you might just not make it. So I mean there's that to look at too.
Speaker 1:But like I said, not to interrupt you no, and and there's things that you could have looked at for adam coming into that turn too right, which was what I was gonna, which is I was going to lead into to make sure that I play both sides of the fence on this move. I think Josh was just trying to make up a position and the door was open, right, was it correctly? In my opinion, no, I think it should have been done differently. Do I finish where Josh finishes in? Results-wise wise, no, but do I know how to ride a four-wheeler? Yes, and any day of the week we can go set up one of those turns, and there's a million different ways you could hit that turn and make that pass, and that's not the one I would win with. But you know, they say opinions are like buttholes, everybody's got one. So, but, with that being said, adam should have protected the inside of the turn a little bit more than what he did. So, instead of leaving the door open for that to even be a potential pass, he could have been on the inside of the turn and protected himself from even having that happen. Do I think that it warranted the after actions at the finish line? No, I don't think he should have smashed the four-wheeler, or um jumped off his bike and did what he did.
Speaker 1:So I do not condone what adam did at the finish either. Um, I think they probably should have waited until they got back to the pits and they probably could have talked it out and it would have went a lot smoother than what it did. But in the heat of the moment it's hard to do that. Yeah, um. So I don't know. I can see where Adam's coming from, because I'd be pretty mad too If I got hit like that in the last couple of turns, just knowing the conditions and knowing how that could have been done. Um, that could have been done, um. But I can see where josh would be mad because adam did what he did, and I can see why people would be like, oh man, that is completely wrong. But I think that initial thing where everybody's like, oh man, I can't believe adam did that, and then you watch the video and it's like I don't know, I'd be pretty mad myself yeah um, so there's.
Speaker 1:I think there's a fine line between aggressive and a fine line between going too far, and I think that pass was a little too far on the on the other end of that aggressiveness, right right um, kind of like you said, these kids coming up if they see josh trying to make a pass like that, what's the next thing that goes through their head?
Speaker 1:oh, they're trying to make a pass like that. What's the next thing that goes through their head? Oh, they're trying to make a pass, right, okay. Well, if you don't have the skills that Josh has, that could have went even worse than what it did.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, and that's what I was alluding to.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, like I know both of these guys, I'm not going to say that either one of them is completely at fault. I think both of them did things in the scenario that could have been done differently. Hindsight's 20-20, and it's always easy to look back and see what you could have done differently. Rubbing is racing, so that's just part of the game. Right, you're going to rub tires. There's times that you're going to bump into each other. There's things that's going to happen, and I don't think that that's a bad thing. But also, I think that there is certain scenarios where you can do too much, and I think that was one of those scenarios, and I think if Adam got disqualified, josh should have got disqualified also just, I think that would have made the whole situation a lot better, right, so, and let's's, let's be totally honest here.
Speaker 2:You and I both have the luxury, right here and right now, of being to being able to make a decision with, with the luxury of being able to think about it, having the time to look at it, re-watching stuff, um, taking time to consider all the options there. Their reactions were, were in the, in the heat of the moment. And you know, if I can, if I can defend you know, adam, for one second too, it's hey, and I've always said this too. Like you know, whenever people go up and talk to guys right after a race and they form an opinion on them because you know they weren't very talkative or they were rude or they kind of, they kind of like, cut them off, um, you're talking to a guy that his adrenaline is up. He, he just finished a race. Um, these guys are absolute competitors to the core.
Speaker 2:Um, so what Adam did and I, I don't condone it, but I, I can see myself possibly doing the same thing and then afterwards doing the same thing that Adam did, like you know, hey, that was wrong, it was he. The moment, I shouldn't have did that, um, but that also comes with racing too, um, and you know, you just it's, you're so you're in one mind frame and it's hard to switch out of that and sometimes, you know, think of the best thing to do at that point in time, like you know, you're so focused on racing, you're not. It's it's easy to go, it's it's hard to go from racing to okay, what's the most correct thing to do here? Um, so I mean that that's something that's got to be looked at too and, like I said, you and I have the luxury of being able to look at it and critique it and having hindsight on it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think the other thing is too that, uh, some people got frustrated about is it was like there was a double standard from cross country racing to super cross. Absolutely Like this same scenario happens in super cross. It doesn't come out the same way as what it did. No, like both parties involved would have been penalized somehow. I don't even know that. I don't even know that Adam really should have been DNF. I think maybe there should have been like a points penalty or something like that. Being that the race was already over, I think being DNF was probably a little much, but I think maybe both of them should have had like a points penalty or something like that. Right, right, but everybody's freaking out because, oh well, you can't do this. There's people around and blah, blah, blah and it's like, okay, well, if this is Supercross, everybody would be cheering, everybody would have been like, oh yeah, go, let's get it.
Speaker 1:And then it happened to cross-country racing. They're like, oh no, no, you can't do this. This is you can't do this, this is embarrassing, we can't have kids seeing this and stuff like that. And it's like, okay, well, you tune in supercross every week, right? Um, I don't know, when weston pike race, there used to be fights all the time. I mean, we've seen people punch each other on the racetrack and the next week they're fine, um. Just, I think if you're, you can't look at one industry of the racing aspect and say one thing and then look at the other one and be like, oh no, this is completely unacceptable. So I think there's a little bit of a double standard there and I think that it's ironic because it's the same people that have their hand in the pot for all of the all of the racing right? So I don't know, my my opinion is they both should have been penalized somehow. I don't know that adam should have been dnf'd, maybe just a points penalty or something, um, but I think whatever one got, the other one should have got just because of the way this the scenario went. Um, but that's just, that's my personal opinion. People are free to disagree with me if they want to. But I've also tried to think about this in a mindset of if you're on the seat of that four-wheeler, what are you going to do? Right? And there's plenty of scenarios that could have worked out way differently and still got the same result as what josh got. Um, there's plenty of scenarios that could have worked out way differently and still got the same result as what Josh got. There's plenty of scenarios that could have worked out differently, that Adam didn't get in trouble and still got his point across. So I think both of them were not right in the scenario and I think that it should have been equal across the board for what happened.
Speaker 1:I also think that when you have people review the video, I don't care if they're champions or race winners or what they are. I think it should be a non-biased group that looks at the footage available and says yes or no. It shouldn't be a well you know, let's have a debate on this. If it was me, that's just an aggressive pass. You take some people that aren't past champions or aren't HC1 racers used for making that decision either.
Speaker 1:So I think there's plenty of things that could be different moving forward. But again, when you're on the outside looking in, it's easy to say what you can or can't do Right and be able to make adjustments from there. So I don't know, maybe it'll be approached differently in the future, but at this point I know that they are racing friendly. Nobody is trying to do anything to each other or anything like that. So I think we're going to be fine moving forward. I just it was an unfortunate scenario and there was a lot of different ways to look at it, and some people definitely did not look at all sides of the the situations. So that's just my thoughts yeah, I think that was.
Speaker 2:That was a very uh good way for both of us to put it, um, as far as dealing with that, that situation. So congratulations to you. You didn't hang yourself out to dry and I didn't hang you out to dry, so I think we got through that pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so maybe they'll get more fun stuff to talk about in the future though. Yeah maybe, uh, but uh, no, you know, looking back at the first, first three rounds, I think South Carolina was good. You had, you had the mud, you had Austin Avenue running out front, I think good, you had you had the mud.
Speaker 1:You had austin avenue running out front. I think that was pretty cool. Um, I I think there's a lot of different things that have happened in these first first few rounds where you could look back and you could take hours and talk about different things.
Speaker 1:Um, but it's just, it's hard to cover every single detail right and when there's that much action going on, it's uh hard to keep track of everything. So right, but I think it's been entertaining. I think that as the season goes on, we're definitely going to get a lot more entertainment, and I think this is going to be good for the sport, as we uh started getting a little bit tighter on these battles.
Speaker 2:So right, and that's all we're really hoping for is is to get more eyes on the sport, more competition and just grow the sport in general yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:What do you think about the? Uh, what do you think about the racer tv stuff? So, over the over the course of the first few rounds here, right, we've had a lot of people complaining about, like, the drone footage, and I personally, I think the drone footage is great, I don't. I think that that is a good thing to have out there, um, but with that being said, I would like a lot more cameras in the woods also, right.
Speaker 2:So and and that, uh, that creates a a hurdle that is kind of plagued. Off-road racing as, since its inception, is uh, I love the drone footage because it actually gives us the ability to see more of the race. Even even if you go there in person, at best you're going to see several different places in the race and you can't be at all places at one time. So it's kind of like you got to pick and choose where you want to go and you know if you want to go be at the finish line, then you're going to miss what happens three or four turns in front of the finish line. But, that being said, I think the drone gives us the ability to see that. Now would I love more cameras in the woods? Absolutely, but then that becomes the issue is you know as well as I do, a lot of these places that we race do not have the best cell phone coverage, so you could have a camera everywhere, but you're not going to be able to get that live footage. Um, yeah, you could do it and spend the next week and then come out with with racer tv that covers the race and have, you know, 20, 20, 30, 40 different cameras, um, but that takes away from the live aspect of it and also that increases the, the production cost of it.
Speaker 2:Um, but I know that's one thing that's always kind of plagued GNCC racing and growing. It is the fact that you know you can't really um market that because you only have one or two cameras and it's you rely a lot on the personalities of you know, uh, johnny G and and Mikey Wayne's talking about the race and talking everybody through it, through the, the lulls when the pros are coming through, and you know the, the other, the, the race is going on, but you don't get that, that supercross feel, where you know you're seeing constant action, the whole race, the whole time you can focus in on the leaders. Um, you know, at a GNCC, at any point in time the leader could be three, four, five miles away from where the broadcast booth is, or even where a TV or a TV camera is. So I think inherently it sets itself up to to have these issues. But I agree with you, I'd love to see more cameras in the woods.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the only other. The only other thing I would say, too, is with having less cameras right now. I feel like it also gives a little bit of leeway for the guys behind the pro classes to occasionally get on camera yeah so I think that's kind of good.
Speaker 1:Also, um, just because the mass majority of gncc is is amateur racing, right, like there's no amateurs, then there's no GNCC, or at least I in my opinion, I feel that there is not a GNCC in its present state without the amateurs being there to race. So, um, the ever-increasing prices to get in, I feel like may in the future start playing a role in that. But I think, as of right now, I think we're fine. It's just I think that the amateurs getting a little bit of TV time is definitely beneficial and can probably help them sometimes with some sponsor stuff.
Speaker 2:So I, I I agree with that and I think that at some point in time it'll catch up and we'll be able to figure that out. But you know, right now the drone is pretty much our best view of what really happens at the race. And you know, sometimes it's hard to see with the drone because of, you know, the depth perception on it. But I tell you what I like being able to see it, even if I can't completely figure out exactly what's going on.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, I love picking out the people from the drone. I think it's funny to see some. When I'm watching racer tv live with some of these people that I'm friends with, they're like my kids or stuff like that. I can, I can look at the drone footage and tell you exactly who each one of the guys are, and then you see everybody else guessing and they're like I think it's, I think that might be fowler, no, that looks like Hart.
Speaker 2:And I'm like oh, come on, yeah, and that's one thing that that's one thing that Johnny G is absolutely phenomenal at Just being able to look at somebody and you. You hear him talk about it and you even hear Mikey even allude to the fact that you know Johnny G can pick somebody out just by, even if they're covered in mud just their riding style oh for sure.
Speaker 1:I mean you can tell a lot about some of these people are like some of the stuff that they wear. Some of these guys have different that they wear compared to other people. You see some of that stuff you're like, oh yeah, that's, that's austin avenue, because he's always got something that's bright, yeah, right, like when he Like when he's muddy he still sticks out. Then you got Hunter Hart. He's usually got the backpack camelback on Right, and then Fowler, he's usually wearing a white chest protector.
Speaker 1:Just different things that these guys do, different riding styles, different things that they wear different colors on their bikes. Like there's, there's always something, um, but yeah, it's definitely cool to be able to, to have the skill of being able to look at something like that and be like, yeah, that's who that is. So, uh, I I think the uh, the guys on there, I think they're super awesome. I know they get a hard time sometimes with some of the camera footage and stuff that they get from some of the people watching, but I think all those guys are awesome Jackson, zach, mikey, they all do a great job. They're all phenomenal at doing that job and it's not the easiest thing to be able to keep talking about stuff while a race is going on where you can't see what is actually happening, and there's just still continuing the conversation and figuring out ways to talk about it and keep people interested. So I think it's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I do too. Uh, I know Jackson and and and Zach are are great at that. I've even, you know, been at the races and being at the finish line waiting for, you know, colton to come through or somebody to come through, and you know, just overhear them and they are constantly talking about something engaging happening to the race, and you know, that's, that's a skill in itself and, you know, I think GNCC is, was was very lucky in picking those two up, uh, just based on their skill and their personalities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and I think they've caught on pretty quick too, especially with which I mean I think is easy when you have a mentor like Mikey. Yeah, just because he's really good at his job, so I think it's easy to catch on, but they have caught on really quick at his job. Um, so, I think it's easy to catch on, but they have caught on really quick and they've definitely added a lot of entertainment to the, to the segments like jackson going out on the track and finding a place to stand. Um, sometimes you see zach out there, zach at the finish doing the, the interviews and different. So I think it's a. I think it's a phenomenal job. I just uh, it's a. I think it's a phenomenal job. I just uh, I think some of the maybe add a camera or two, would be cool. Um, maybe take the drone somewhere else and let some of the other people have some TV time while they're under the canopy of the trees, um, different things like that, but obviously they're.
Speaker 2:They're constantly continuing to, to learn, right, right they're constantly continuing to, to learn Right, right and, and moving into the spring and summertime, we're going to lose a lot of that drone footage too because of, like you said, the canopy. Uh, you know we'll get to pick them out here and there, but you know the most most of the time. Uh, what we're going to see drone wise is you know the field shots and you know the pits and stuff like that. You won be able to follow, um, some of these, some of these races in the dense foliage that you know you're going to see here pretty soon.
Speaker 1:so, yep, I agree, but what do you uh? What do you think about camp coker coming up?
Speaker 2:Huh, um, so my initial reaction to camp coker is I don't want to drive there and I'm not, and, and that's that's that's my biggest thing about camp coker I hate that drive down there. However, um, it will set itself up and I've been down there for action, uh, action off-road camp, and I was surprised that, and I've never been to florida, but I think camp coker will be about the closest you can get to florida, uh, without being in Florida. As far as the uh, the sand goes, um, you're going to have a lot more elevation changes and stuff, um, but I, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you're going to see somebody, like like Steve Harrell, um, come out and and do something and and possibly put it on the podium. Um, I think you're still going to see the battle between um Walker and Bryson. Uh, nothing changes there, um, but I think somebody else is going to surprise us on this and you know, knowing that track and being on that track for a while, uh, it's going to be brutal. By the time you know they're getting into their last lap, because you got to figure you're going to race the youth, the youth on it. Uh, you're going to race the AMs on it and then time for the PMs. And by the time you get on the PMs, I've seen several spots in that track where there there's literally no bottom on that and it's really gonna I mean, it's going to pay off for the guys that that know how to run that race, knowing that, um, you know that their first lap is not going to be the same as their last lap and you know these guys have proven to be able to adapt to that. Um. But I also know too that you know they've raced this place a lot of times and you know these guys have spots picked out where they can make passes and you know there's there's alternate lines here and there.
Speaker 2:So I think, um, you know, going into this, you're gonna have, you know, bryson and walker um still battling. Um, you know, I, I think if walker it'll, it'll, I always see like, at the end you can tell when you know walker didn't even didn't run a good race because he's really hard on himself. Um, I think if walker can turn in one of those mistake-free races, you're gonna see a really close race between him and bson. Um, you know, but I I can't count out anybody else. I mean you could throw wide up in there, josh in there, austin in there, um, you know you name it. I I'd love to see Chris uh put one back on the podium here, um, before too long, um, but you know that's my thoughts.
Speaker 2:I think it's it's going to be the track is going to pay, play a big factor in in the later parts of the races, um, and just some of those places being tight, you're going to have lappers um also throwing a wrench into it, A lot of them.
Speaker 2:Places are really tight and you get a little bit of single track, um, so I don't know that's. If you had to uh have to put me on the spot for a top three, I'm gonna say interchange, brayson and walker, uh, one and two, and you're either gonna have I think you're gonna see steve corral actually have a breakthrough and put it on the podium. But, um, my wild card, I always have to pick Adam, um, that's kind of like just like something I have to do, but I think you could even. It's hard it really is, especially with how good Josh has been riding. Uh, you can't ever count him out. Wyatt, I mean even Austin showed what he could do the last race and you know, up to that point he really hasn't shown that level of domination that he did in that race. So I mean I'm going to play it safe and you know, go interchange Bryson Walker one and two and put Steven number three.
Speaker 1:I think Throw it out there. I think John Lata lands on the podium. I feel like he likes this track. I feel like he does good at this track. I think he can put it on the box. That's my mix-up. Other than that, I think it's going to be the Bryson Walker show again. I think Bryson is going to try to get out front. If he doesn't get the whole shot, he's going to try to get out front as quick as possible and he's just going to try to outlast everybody. And I think he's going to try to outlast everybody and I think he's going to try to walk away with it. I think walker's best strategy is either get the whole shot and control the speed in the beginning, or latch on to the back of bryson.
Speaker 1:hope he can stay there yeah uh, I think walker is the is capable of doing it. Um, I think there's been a couple times where he has questioned himself recently. Uh, I don't. I don't think he should because I think he's been a couple times where he has questioned himself recently. I don't think he should because I think he's still got the skill and I think he's got the speed to be able to win. Still, I think he needs a little bit of confidence sometimes. Round one helped, but then we had round two and three where Bryson won. I look to see Walker and Bryson mix it up a little bit, so maybe we come out with the points time that would. That could be cool.
Speaker 1:And then John Vlado on the podium, and then I say probably Stevie Harrell and like fourth, and then maybe, like Hunter Harton, fifth. That's my, that's my prediction. But I think campers is definitely a definitely similar to florida. Um, the sand just eats up a little bit differently, I think, is the biggest thing like florida's is a bottomless pit, right like some of those water holes and stuff you hit in Florida. They could be six foot deep and they look like they're two inches deep, so they can be a little deceiving. Camp coacher, you kind of look at what you got and you're like, yeah, that's bad, so there's no, like there's no. Looking at it and thinking, oh, this might not be as bad, it's a no, this just sucks. Um, typically I do good at camp coacher, so I'm kind of upset that I'm missing it. Um, I would have liked to have had my stuff ready for camp coacher, but it just didn't work out that way. So I guess we're gonna finish out the season with, uh, nine races and nine races that count, right, so every race counts yeah.
Speaker 2:And uh, if I could point to it too, like I don't have anything against camp Coker. I mean I'm just going to throw this out there for people that may have forgot, or, you know, people that are new to the show I was the uh action off-road dad class um champion, uh champion for the dad race at Camp Coker there. So I don't particularly dislike it. I've had great luck there. I mean I've won a world championship there. So I mean I can't say that you know it's, I don't like it, it's just not my favorite.
Speaker 1:No, it's one of my, it's one of my top tracks. I feel like I like Coker, I like Snowshoe and I like Florida, which are all just kind of different, but with that being said, I think Coker does develop some pretty good race lines, like option-wise. I think you have more than one, more than one good line around that track, so that makes it kind of nice because if you need to make passes or, you know, if you're just looking for that little bit of an extra edge, then there's options for it. So I think the track develops really well. And, uh, I just I think you have to be pretty mentally tough to run there.
Speaker 1:Typically I do good there and I'm pretty upset that I miss it. Oh there's always good. We'll see what next year holds, but it's one of the nice facilities on the schedule. I will say that, having the ponds and all the good fishing and things like that, I think it's definitely one of the nicer facilities on the schedule and hopefully it stays around for years to come. Um, but I think there's a lot of things to do there. I think it's it's a good place to go. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. So I mean, moving on, um, you know we alluded to, you know the training and everything, um, so I put it out there that we were going to have a guest and I'm pretty excited about this Um, because this is a guest that I think so many people in the area know, um, and I've never I can't even pick the guy out in in a lineup if I had to but, um, you know you had been talking to Barry Hawk and you know he wanted to come on and talk about um. You know just his new, the uh, you know HRD racing, um, where he's doing classes and teaching and stuff like that. And um, you know you have more info on it than I do, so I'll kind of just hand it over to you to kind of fill everybody in yeah, I mean, uh, I think what barry is doing is is cool.
Speaker 1:he uh can bring a lot of insight to both sides of off-road racing atvs, dirt bikes, all the way around, right? Yeah, he's. He's multiple championships on atvs, he's won a dirt bike championship, and he's the only guy in GNCC history to do that. So I think that's pretty cool. I'm also working with him now, so my opinion could be a little biased, but I think it's great to take knowledge from somebody that's done so many great things in the sport and be able to say, hey, I appreciate what you've done for the sport, and be able to say, hey, I appreciate what you've done for the sport, and being able to learn from the knowledge that you have is very crucial to me being able to elevate my game. So I think it's great for the racing community and I I think, uh, it's going to be something awesome for years to come. And now that he's gotten some time where he can do it, here we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I, uh, uh, I just sent him a text message to make sure he's still good. Um, that's the hardest thing with trying to do, with trying to do guests is, you know, just trying to make sure that their, their schedules line up with ours. Because I mean, obviously, as, as the hosts, I take great pleasure in being able to talk to guys like Barry and Walker and you know just everyone that we've had on here and I try to, you know, make sure that we're doing it so that it fits into their schedule. And that's honestly, the hardest part about this. Uh, try to make it easy for them, because I mean, who wants to come on?
Speaker 2:If it's, you know a pain in the ass to get on and do everything else. So, yeah, I mean, who wants to come on? If it's, you know a pain in the ass to get on and do everything else. So, yeah, I just I'm going to make sure that he's good to go and you know when he is, I will. I'll go ahead and add him on the three-way call, but until then we can just keep talking. I mean, I don't know if you want to elaborate more on the HRD it was what you know or if we could just talk about anything else. Um, we'll just go from there and then, whenever I hear back from him, I'll just I'll cut you off and we'll get him put on there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, uh, the the hrd thing is cool. Um, most of not most of, but at this point, a lot of the training that he's going to be having me doing is heart rate adjusted. So we're going to be trying to go for a specific heart rate for extended periods of time and then we'll be able to take that heart rate while working out, riding, whatever, and we can tell a lot from what the heart rate is so that we can track that and know exactly kind of where my level of fitness is and things that we need to work on. So that's pretty cool that you can actually like get your heart rate monitor. You can send him a heart rate and he can be like, yeah, you are not in as good of shape as what you think you are. Or he might be like, hey, you're in actually pretty decent shape, but here's some things that we can do to help you over the period of a race, right. So, um, not a lot of lifting, uh, or heavy weights or anything like that, mostly just trying to some body weight exercises, some running, biking, stuff like that, so that way we can try to keep the heart rate up and keep the intensity up, just like you would in a race.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of what most of the focus is, and I don't want to say too much because I want him to be able to kind of what his plans are, some of the things that he is looking for when he's doing these things.
Speaker 1:But you can do monthly programs with him, you can do one-on-one classes, so he's pretty flexible with that kind of stuff too. So I'm currently doing the lower of the packages because it meets the criteria of what I'm trying to accomplish, um, whereas if you're a up-and-coming racer, maybe you want to go to one of the higher ones, because some ones and some different things like that that could be beneficial to you being able to learn more. So there's, uh, there's different tiers and there's lots of different things that he can do to adjust the program to fit your specific needs. So I'm gonna need all the help I can get, though, because I haven't touched a bike in about uh, I don't know nine months at this point. Roughly the beginning of August is the last time I've I raced or rode a four wheeler. So, um, I'm relying on outside fitness to uh get me across the finish line. Um, and then you pair that with being on a new bike and stuff this year. That, uh, it's not the perfect storm by any means.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's. That's one thing that I forgot to touch on. You're, you're going back to the Yamahammer, Um, you're you're yeah, we, uh, we.
Speaker 1:We are going back to Yamaha a little bit differently this time, though, so I'm pretty excited to uh to try it. Um, but basically, we've been handed the bike and handed the responsibility of you set this up specifically how you want it, with whatever parts you want on it, so it's been a lot more tailored exactly to me this time, um, than maybe what it was the last time. So we're, uh, we're working with a lot more parts and a lot more, a lot more things. Yeah, um, but yeah, it's uh, it's cool, um, brand new, brand new bike, all brand new parts. So this will be the freshest bike I've had in my adult career.
Speaker 1:Typically, typically, I run some pretty sketchy stuff, and I've had people literally describe it to me as as sketchy. So, um, but yeah, we, uh, we're starting a race team and we've got two riders currently, right now, well, we have one dirt bike guy and we have a four by four pro and me, so I think it's going to be pretty cool and we're looking to uh continue building the team and expanding into 2026. Um, but, but Robbie's taking on a lot of uh, a lot of trust in uh, in building this team.
Speaker 2:So well, that I mean that's. That's pretty good.
Speaker 1:Exciting. Yeah, it takes a lot to be like you know what. Let's just go ahead and start a race team. So it's a. You don't see that much anymore and and it's pretty tough to uh to do that. So I'm excited and hopefully I can produce the results that we need to continue growing, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right man.
Speaker 1:We got Barry Hawk here and he's going to talk about some of the HRD off-road stuff that he's been doing and some of the exciting things he's got coming in the future. So nice to have you on the show, Barry, and I'm sure you're a busy guy and we appreciate you making a little bit of time to come on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, guys, glad you guys wanted me on and talk about things, how things are going. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So, yeah, I mean I've got the HRD. That's Hawk Rider Development is what I've had. A lot of people ask me what it stands for, but uh, but yeah, I got that going on. Um, I mean, I've been helping guys all the way from Florida to Georgia, south Carolina, pennsylvania, west Virginia. So I've been bouncing around kind of chasing some of the race series and uh, yeah, it's been going good I've had.
Speaker 3:When I started out my first week in Florida I was super busy. Then the next start of the next week I was really not super busy and I didn't like that. So that's when I started jumping around and going to different states and figuring out. But I mean, in the end, what I want to do is give back a little bit of knowledge, a little bit of what I learned. Help people doesn't matter if it's a youth rider on a atv, dirt bike, adult, it doesn't matter, age, atv, dirt bike, it doesn't matter. I, I think I can share a little bit of knowledge, no matter who it is, and, uh, try and keep it fun for them. And one little aspect or angle that I personally like to do is I like when someone wants me to help them not just the riding, the technical side of it of do I need to stand up or sit down I like setting up or trying to help set up a machine, whether it's suspension or handlebars or whatever it is.
Speaker 3:I, for whatever reason, when I was young I didn't understand it. I wasn't good at it. I just tried to overcome it. But the older I got I understood it and I knew what I wanted and I knew how to relay that to the suspension people. And although I've never really dug into a shock and change valving myself myself shock or forks or whatever it is I've watched the guys so I understand internally what's going on and I think that helped me externally understand what I want out of a machine and that led to you know where I'm at now and helping people understand or try to understand what the suspension is doing.
Speaker 3:And and also what I've ran into a lot lately is people were like, yeah, my shock's too stiff, my shock's too stiff. I it had that circumstance today. I was with a guy and he was like shock's too stiff. Well, it actually was stiff because he had way too much sag. So if he would have just been there on his own he probably would have just been stiffening up the clickers on it and that wasn't going to fix it. So we fixed the sag, got it where it needed to be and he went out. He was like, wow, it's so much better, it doesn't even feel stiff now. And we didn't touch a clicker, we just done the sag. But you know, he didn't understand, or he didn't. He didn't know that, which is fine.
Speaker 3:I don't expect many people to know that and honestly I haven't ran across many people that do know that.
Speaker 3:That's fine.
Speaker 3:But I like to help someone.
Speaker 3:If they want to understand it, I will try to explain it to them, like why that helped. And if they don't want to understand, at the end of the day that doesn't matter. If they don't understand, as long as they're going faster on the stopwatch, it's really all that matters. So that that's kind of a side of it that I I enjoy doing with the people and I kind of can start diving in really deep with it and get really, really in depth with the person that they want it. But then I got to kind of if they're not understanding it or I kind of get get too, too in depth with them. I almost have to like back myself up a little bit and like, hey, there, that's a couple of steps ahead of where they're going to be, maybe the next session or a couple of sessions down the road. Then we could cover that specific instance or circumstance that I was. I was trying to get them to understand. But it's fine, you know, it's all good at the people. They don't have to understand it.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, as long as they're having fun and going faster, that's really all that matters yeah that's kind of no go ahead, go ahead no go uh it, it's tough when it comes to bike setup, but I'm glad you like bike setup because, fortunately for you, I'm a guy switching to a whole new brand. I could use some pointers on that specific brand. So if you're looking to do some bike setup, I definitely got some stuff that we can do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, well, hey, hey, I'll try and help you out, try and do whatever I can to help you understand it. And I want to say I do need to put this out there I don't know everything about ATVs, about bikes. I'm not a person to be like, no, you got to do this setup, this is going to work for you. Like, hey, everybody rides different, everybody approaches stuff differently. And I'm open and like, if you, what I would recommend no matter if it's you, devin, or whoever it is, if I recommend trying something, at least try it. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, that gives me more knowledge of understanding.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, it didn't. I thought it would work, but it didn't work. Well, here's why it probably doesn't work for them and their riding technique, or maybe they hit stuff faster and charge through stuff differently than than what may someone else may do, and what may work for a lot of other people may not work for you, devin. So, but that's part of like, at least try something, at least you know, give it a go and if it works, very good. If not, that's okay. At least you tried it and you took that possible weapon.
Speaker 1:Hey, it's no good, you took that out of the arsenal but I figured I'm uh, I'm slow enough that the only way to go from here is up.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I don't know about that wait, I, I, I hold the record of being the slowest on the show devin, so just come on slow. You need to step back from that. Like, that is mine, I own that, I, I, I can back that up. So, um, yeah you, you're the second fastest person on this podcast right now, as we speak.
Speaker 3:Well, hey, my goal is which, I would argue that he's the second fastest, but if he is, I hope, within the next couple months, that he is the fastest guy on the show currently, as we speak right now I mean, that's what I'm hoping for the challenge has been thrown yeah, I mean hey, that's my goal. I've been there and done it, so that's why I like giving giving some knowledge. If someone wants it, hey, I'll keep do everything I can to help them go faster and achieve their goal of what they want.
Speaker 1:And, speaking of that, what the other, the other person on this show is a, uh, is a teenager now and he's got your cool teenager, um, teenager things that go on Right, um, but when it comes to, like, the youth side of things, when do you think is an appropriate age or not appropriate, but an ideal age for you to be able to work with, even kids?
Speaker 3:at the new East coast race and on Sunday for bike day. I worked with I think he was nine. Pretty sure he was nine years old and I know I worked with him two years ago, so he'd have been seven at that point. And when he was seven he understood stuff and he was able to be better at the end of the day. But what I've seen in the two years like he was able to understand stuff way more at nine years old and I understand everybody's different. There may be someone else that you know may not understand it to 11 or someone may understand a lot sooner, but that is just my personal knowledge. At seven he was learning and understanding.
Speaker 3:I've recently had a few people reach out to me that their kids are like five years old and I'm open to helping them understand it. But that's more the basics. You know, understanding the brakes and when to brake and throttle and leaning and all that stuff of brakes and when to brake and throttle and leaning and all that stuff. But I haven't worked with any five-year-olds yet. But I think the biggest challenge with being younger than seven whenever the boy a few years ago that I just referenced, I think, when you're younger than that I think the biggest issue is they're just losing focus. You know, I mean, when you're five years old, like, yeah, you want to go ride your bike or your atv and have fun, but maybe, like after an hour, they might be like, oh, there's a squirrel, you know out, zoned out, which, hey, you're five years old, like your, your attention span is probably going to be like I'm bored with this, like I just I'm ready to move on. So I think that would be a bigger challenge of having someone, if they want to work for a longer period of time, or let me rephrase that, the parent may want a kid to work for a longer period of time.
Speaker 3:But I think seven issues whenever I, I think they start to really understand stuff. And then at nine, that's they, they understood. Like this specific uh kid that I'm talking about, he understood a lot more, like when I told him stand up, going down a hill and put his weight, put his butt over, like the back of the seat, he understood that when he was five, like I would tell him and it would be like he would kind of move, but he just wasn't grasping the whole thing. So you know they're, but whenever you're that young, you get five to seven to nine. I mean there's a big, big difference in you know, just mentally, of being able to comprehend and understand stuff. So you know it's it's a challenge but but you know it's, it's good, it's fun, I love. You know it doesn't matter if you're five, seven, whatever, if you're 40 years old, 50 years old.
Speaker 3:I mean everybody can learn something. I can learn something every time I go ride. I I have bad tendencies and I have to tell myself to do certain things and I'm like I shouldn't have to tell myself to do that. But it's just bad habits and you know, everybody can learn and every time I go out there I try to learn something or figure out something to make me a little bit better. I mean, I'll never be back to where I was, I'm okay with that. I finally accepted that after many years of, you know, thinking well, maybe can I go back, but you know I'm good with it now.
Speaker 3:So, but yeah, Devin back to your original question. I mean, that's, it's almost rider or person dependent at an age, you know. And also, if they have a lot of background, if they've already been riding, for if you're seven and you've been riding for two years years, well, you don't really, you already know the, the basics of braking and all that. Then you could be a little bit more in depth, but it's kind of uh, you know, it's kind of rider dependent at a very young age.
Speaker 2:no, that makes sense to me. And, and speaking on that, barry, so devin's talking about colton, my son, barry, so Devin's talking about Colton, my son, and he's 13. And I know that you know I'm not alone in this, but you know what is your thoughts on whenever you get to that, that age group, because we're we're going through like a period right now where, you know, two years ago it was just all about riding, riding, riding and that was like the greatest thing ever. Well, now it's like now we're 13 and you know it doesn't seem to carry the the same importance, but at the same time, you know we went to the last new east coast race and you know he's extremely excited about it, he loves doing it, but in the meantime it's like, you know, I tell him I'm like, hey, you know, you need to start, you know, doing some extracurricular stuff, some some working out, some doing that, and there's like zero, zero motivation for that. So I mean and I'm speaking as me, as a parent, and I know there's probably a bunch of other parents that are probably in the same boat like we don't want to, I don't speaking for myself, I don't want to push colton to the point where he doesn't enjoy it but at the same time, like and and speaking of my own kid, I I'm biased, but he, he has all the potential in the world, but it's like right now he has zero motivation to do so. He's he's relying on all his God given ability and I try to explain it to him that you know, at some point in time your God-given ability and everybody's work ethic are going to equal out. But the problem with your God-given ability is it taps out. Your work ethic never taps out. You can always keep doing better based on work ethic. You can never get better than your natural ability will let you. You still have to take that and move on.
Speaker 2:But you know, in your opinion and you've been around it you've probably seen guys, kids, that were just phenomenal, um, just kind of Peter out and lose interest in it.
Speaker 2:So like speaking to a parent that has a kid that you know has the ability to to do some stuff in this sport and when I say do some stuff in the sport, I mean being being successful I'm, I'm. I'm not by no means saying that you know he can make a living at it. I think those days, as we know it right now, are pretty much long gone, but you know, just being at a point where you know he enjoys himself and and sees the the, the efforts of his work, coming out and being able to have that confidence in himself and being able to say, look, I, I pushed myself even when I didn't think I could do it, and I stuck through it and I suffered and I did good, but you know where? I guess this is a long winded question, um, but what do you? What do you see that you've seen in your past, like what is too much pressure, what is not enough pressure?
Speaker 3:What's, in your opinion, Well, and to your question, like I have seen and been around every parent kid, the ones that were super pushy and kept pushing the kid, the ones that were you know yeah, we'll let him figure it out and I've seen some that were super talented, some that weren't, that had a good work ethic I've seen it all, that weren't that had a good work ethic, I've seen it all. The one thing I will say is if they your kid or any kid has a lot of potential or a lot of ability and they're not really putting in the effort that you want them to, the one thing you can't make them do. I can't, nobody can force them to have to make them want to do it. I mean, you can take them to the race and they're going to do it and go through the motions and probably enjoy it for the most part. But whenever the kids keep getting pushed harder and harder and harder from the parent, like the parent wants it more and I've seen it and I've seen where the kids kind of like we're still doing it, but they were doing it for the parents. There's no secret formula, no secret Like I don't know. There's no like thing like a little code that I can tell someone to make it happen Like there's nothing. I can't make someone want it. I don't know. Like everybody is just different. Some people like I personally on the ATV side. So I kind of had two different careers I'm using myself to somewhat answer your question my ATV career and I don't want this to sound cocky or arrogant but it was easy for me to win races and championships.
Speaker 3:I didn't put a lot of effort into it. My parents weren't pushy. My mom nor my dad were ever pushy. Um, I think it's just genetically like, and my dad raced, uh for for several years when I was young, but they never pushed me. And there was times, like if we went to like a local race or a motocross race or whatever it was, and I'd be asking my dad, well, who's going faster? And he might say a name or two and I'm like, well, what are they doing? Like I wanted to figure that out myself. My parents didn't come to me like, hey, so-and-so is going faster over here and he's jumping this or he's doing that. You need to do it. They were never like that and I think for me it was like I wanted to figure it out, or I tried to figure it out what I wanted to do. It was almost just like an internal instinct that I had and I can't make that. Or if I could bottle it up and sell it, I would be a very wealthy man. I'd be on my own private island somewhere talking to him. But you can't make someone want it.
Speaker 3:And again, there's one specific I'm not going to say name but there's one specific circumstance where I realized, about a year and a half before the guy finally threw in the towel, he was doing it, I mean, and he enjoyed it. He had fun, but he was essentially doing it for his parents. They enjoyed it more than he did. And then he ended up. When he was done, he hung up his boots and I don't know that he's it's probably been 14 years. I don't know that he's ever ridden and he was a dirt bike. I don't know that he's ridden a dirt bike since then and he was a very good rider. And he was a very good rider, not super talented, but he was also one. He never really had a strong worth ethic for training. Now he would go ride, he would ride with me, he would really ride his butt off, but when it came to the training side off the bike. He really didn't put in much effort.
Speaker 3:But that's one of the things like I don't have an answer to it. The only thing I could or I will recommend is, if your kid is there and if he's still having fun he or she's having fun and the parents enjoy it it's like you should probably still push, gently, push them to still go racing or go ride or whatever it is, because it's like when they quit or if they get away from it, then that'll probably do one of two things. If the parents aren't really like, yeah, well, hey, you wasn't interested, I didn't prep it, or we're not going, it'll probably go one of two ways. It'll go to where, like, well, I want to do it, so I need to put in more effort, or it'll be like yeah, I really don't want to do that, maybe I want to go to college or maybe I want to get a job or whatever it is. It kind of will give the parents a better understanding, maybe, of what is going to be better for their kid kid and maybe it will motivate them.
Speaker 3:And I've seen some that where that's happened, you know we're like man, parents, parents ain't really helping me, they're not doing what they're doing, like it's a pretty good deal. I better put in a little more effort here, because I do want to do this. And then I've seen some that's just like, yeah, I'm good, I had fun, I'm ready to be an adult now and get a job and make money, and you know, hey, it was fun. So you know, and, and the one guy I specifically was referring to earlier, like, I still consider him a friend. They're great people. He has a very, very successful business. Now when he hung up his boots and he went and got a, um, you know, went to school and, uh, a trade school and has his own business and I mean, does great so and they're happy now, you know. So they didn't make the wrong decision.
Speaker 3:I think at the time, whenever he hung up the boots, I think it was probably a little bit of tension in the family, like well, we put in so much time and effort, money to this and now it's for nothing. But I think in the end the parents can probably look back now and say that's okay, because all that race experience and that's also life experiences and stuff isn't. Races aren't easy, riding isn't easy. Doesn't matter if it's atd dirt bike like there's times when you're winning it's great, but there's times where it's a mud race or whatever it is, or somebody passed you and you try and run it back down and you spin out or you fall down or whatever.
Speaker 3:It is like that. That's actually. You know, there's a lot of life lessons in in the riding and the racing part of it that I think is overlooked for a lot of people. Very beneficial, in my opinion. People may not understand it early on, when, when a kid may maybe hanging up the boots, but later on, more than likely the parents. I've seen in several circumstances where the kids turned out fine, you know, and they're good people. I think that's not go ahead.
Speaker 2:I think that's like the biggest thing is like us as parents, we try to kind of live vicariously through our kids and we get caught up in it and we don't see the things that you know maybe this isn't for them and you know that it it's hard for me sometimes and I'll admit it that you know maybe this isn't for them and you know that it it's hard for me sometimes and I'll admit it that you know I try to push him, um, but at the same time, like I didn't grow up racing, so it's not like I'm trying to get him to fill my shoes or anything Um, but I just want to. I want to get him prepared for for life and having that work ethic and seeing something and knowing that, okay, well, maybe I'm I'm not the most gifted person out there, but if I could put my mind to it then you know I can do some extraordinary things.
Speaker 2:So I mean that's that's one thing that I think we all, as parents, need to look at is like, like, exactly like you said, you can't force somebody to want to do it. Um, I, it's. It's frustrating whenever you know you've lived through it and you've seen it and you've made the mistakes to be able to help somebody and they're just like, man, I really don't care, I'm just going to, you know, do what I want to do, um, but you know I can. I can also also speak to the fact too, like you said, like sometimes you don't have fun. And you know, in a previous career right, I toured around doing a lot of competitive bass fishing and traveling all across the Eastern coast, and I think there was one time where it kind of hit me, where it was like we were out on I think it was Lake Ontario and I mean the waves were brutal and I was like this just is not fun and this is something that I don't want to do for the rest of my life, like being stuck in a in a half to do situation and and and get beat to death on 10 foot waves and and try to fish in this stuff.
Speaker 2:And you know, that was kind of like eyeopening to me and, like I try to tell, tell Colton that who my son. Like you know there's some times and that you know it's not always going to be fun. But you can look past that when, if you enjoy what you're doing and you see the rewards from it, you can look at it and say, well, yeah, you know, it was all worth it.
Speaker 3:Right, right, yeah, there's, you're 100 spot on um. And I can also give you another example. It sounds like there's a lot of similarities with your son and my son. So my son, he has raced every e-bike race the gncc has ever had, from the first year that they had it, which was actually kind of like a trial run they had. They really didn't keep points. They had three or four races. Then the next year they started a series. He won the schoolboy or the youth championship. So he's done every e-bike race.
Speaker 3:Up until last year he missed the Ironman. The last one of the year, which turned out to be. He had a chance to win the championship if he went through that round but it came down to the other guy. There was a bunch of circumstances. He had a chance but it was very slim to win. But he was going to have a really good probably like a top three overall number. So he was going to do better overall than he was in his class because the guy that had the, the guy that ended up winning because of their throwaways, that guy was doing better in the class but not as good overall because the guy had a couple. He missed a couple.
Speaker 3:Anyhow, my son had raced every one of them and I never pushed him to go, like, hey, you need to go work out, hey, you gotta go train, hey, you gotta get on bicycle.
Speaker 3:But there was times where, like in, say, january, february, I'd be like, hey, I'd call him, I'd be heading home from the race shop, I'm like you working out, you want to work out. That was my kind of like seeing where he was at his motivation level and he was like, yeah, when you get home we're going to work out in the garage. There was times like, well, I was kind of tired, but I guess I probably should, and I'd be like, yeah, I'll be home, let's work out. So there was times I kind of I guess I was pushing him but I was doing it in my subtle way of like he could be kind of sitting around but like, and he's like, I think, with him seeing my work ethic, and he doesn't really remember much about my racing but he knows what I went through with the race team and how much time I put into there and you know, driving up and down the East coast and chasing the races and helping the team and just doing everything I'd done.
Speaker 3:He realized like I need to put in some work here, like dad's willing to, you know, work out with me or do stuff. And then, whenever the weather would get good, he would. We would ride on my track behind my house or we would get on a road bike. And it got to the last couple of years where he would call or text me and be like, hey, I can get off work early, when are you coming home? I knew that meant he wanted to go. He was going to wait for me to come home to go on a road bike ride or go behind the house on our trails and I would, most of the time I could get out of whatever I was doing and I would drop what I was doing and I would tell him I'll be home in 40 minutes, make sure there's air in the tires, like we'll go, I know where we're going to go on our ride. I would drop what I was doing and come home, because so at that time he was 18. He would have been like 17, and 18 was when he really put in a lot of effort, training wise. I would drop what I was doing because I thought he's 17, he's 18, 17 and 18. At that, that age, that timeframe, I'm like he's going to get at the point where he's not going to need dad anymore, or want dad to, or dad's not going gonna be able to keep up with me. I gotta go harder. So I that's why I would stop and drop what I was doing to go with him, especially whenever he initiated the.
Speaker 3:You know the thing to me like, hey, when are you coming home? And so, fast forward to how I started. This is at a week before or two weeks before the Ironman event, the last e-bike round. He told me and my wife and he's like, hey, I got a job interview at another place and you know it's, this is what I was going to do and I think I want to go interview it and blah, blah, blah. Well, he got the job, but he had to start work the week of the Ironman race and he was working like nine to five. So in the e-bike races on Friday out there. So he was like what am I going to do, dad? And I'm like you need to work, like you're going to have to miss this round Cause it's your first week of work, you have no vacation time and it was a higher end job for him for what he was doing. So I was like, hey, you need to go, you need to go. This is what you want to do, I'm good with it. You need to go, go to the job, mr Race. So, anyhow, I'm at the race.
Speaker 3:On the starting line, which I wasn't real happy about, they decided that it was going to be a double points round race, make up for a race that got canceled earlier that year. So not only did he not win the championship, he kind of in my words, he got screwed up, being the third overall for the year. He dropped all the way to 11th overall for the year. So I wasn't happy about that at the time. I was mad how that all played out. I wasn't mad at my son, but fast forward to, he took the job. He's got it. He never felt bad, or look back like man, I should have done that race.
Speaker 3:But at that race everybody's like where's Talon, where's he at. I'm like he got a job and they're like what do you mean? I'm like he got a job, he wants to go to work, and they're like, what do you mean? And I'm like he pretty much like he's not, doesn't have a future in e-bike racing. Like he was really pushed himself the past couple of years and he got to the XC2 and he won a championship the year before, but he wants to be, he's adulting, like that's what he wants to do. He's going to get a job and go to work every day.
Speaker 3:And there's people like I can't believe he wants to do that. Like you raced your whole life and I'm like, yeah, but I'm okay with it, like that's what he wants to do. So fast forward. Like he has a job now, he makes really good money and he's 19 years old. I would have probably seriously been like, do I want to keep racing or do I want to take his job making a lot of money for being 19 years old? Like I would have really struggled with it, but I knew that I wanted to race more, but he was good with not pursuing it or doing the racing part of it anymore. He'll probably still do some e-bike races, some of the closer realms close to home, but he's not going to chase the series anymore.
Speaker 3:But I think the people in the racing circle they almost struggle to wrap their head around me being okay with that Like this is what I've done. My whole life is this racing. But your kid isn't doing it. And I'm like, yeah, neither of my kids. My daughter lives in North Carolina. She has a job. My son has a job. He still lives at home, but he has a really good job. Like that's what they do. That's what most, most people probably should do in life is get a job.
Speaker 3:Like, if you're not going to live, eat, breathe, sleep this 24 seven to try and make a living at it, like you're, yeah, you need to go get a job and that's what he wants to do. And he told me a couple weeks ago he's like, yeah, I want to own my own company in four years and, dad, I want you to work for me. I'm like I hope that happens and I will be your first employee. I will drop what I'm doing and go to work for you because I hope that's what happens. And he and I had another conversation last night about you know what does he want to continue doing what he wants to do or what he's doing now. Or he was like no, I want to. You know, have own a company. I want to do a business. And he's like I'm not really sure yet what I want to do.
Speaker 3:I'm like, well, at 19, I don't expect you know what to do. But where I'm going with this whole conversation is like he's seen the work ethic and he knew what it took. He wasn't scared to do that. But he chose and wants to do something different with his life, because I think his goal is when he's 31 or he said these numbers like when he's 31 or 41 years old, like he would like to do, almost like where he has a company it's kind of running itself. I mean, those are lofty goals. If you're 19 and you have a company, it's running itself and you can go on vacation and play around when you're 31. That's pretty lofty goals, but that's where he's at in life.
Speaker 3:So all I'm going to do is support him and like, hey, you're good, but all those life lessons of racing and going up and down and getting home at three o'clock in the morning, and then you know he still would get up and go to work and do his other job that he had. And I'm doing stuff like I can't make him chase, I can't make him want to race. I didn't even make him go to work or tell him you got to go get a job. Like would I like for him to be racing and be dedicating himself to it, yeah. But on the other hand, it's like, hey, this is what he wants to do, I'm going to support him and I'm good with it. So you know that comes back to your original question a little bit ago.
Speaker 3:Like you can't make someone want it other than, like my son knows what he wants years down the road. It's like that's just that's what he wants. And I don't know where he got it from. Maybe he got it from seeing me or what I've done and my wife and what she's doing and my daughter going to school and getting a job and moving away. Like he, he has goals. It's just different goals than what I had when I was 19 years old. So you know I'm okay with it. I think there's other people in the race circle that don't. They're like I don't understand how they don't say this, but I think what this is what they're thinking like. I don't know how you're good with that, but I'm perfectly fine with it. You, you know my kid, my kids, are going to work there. You know they want to do stuff and make a living and earn. You know, do their own way. I'm good with it and I'm going to support them.
Speaker 1:I have the opposite problem. I'm trying to start my own company and stuff, but it's not for the fact of I want to have it on cruise control when I'm in my 30s and 40s. I want to get this business going because whatever money I make, I'm going to spend to have fun. But my thing right now is I'm still invested in racing. So it's like, okay, well, if I start a business and I can make some money off of it, that's more money I can invest in racing. Like, okay, well, if I start a business and I can make some money off of it, that's more money I can invest in racing. But that's probably the redneck in me. That's the redneck that comes out in me where I'm like, listen, if I'm going to make some money, I want to invest my money to be the redneck at the racetrack. I may never get there, but I will waste all my money to try.
Speaker 3:But, devin, I will say this like that's your goal, that's what you want to do, and I can't say that you're wrong for doing it. Like, good for you, that's what you want to do. You want to race and you want to get better at it and you know you're not, you're not too old to make it happen. So that is kind of your goal. Like I'm going to do this, I'm going to work on, do my own business and put the money back into the racing. Like there's a lot of people that do that. You know I've I've met a lot of people over the years and all over the country and different countries I've been all over the world. Like you can make it happen. It's, it's truly on your shoulders. You can make it happen. It just depends on how much effort and how bad you want it. If you really want it, you're gonna.
Speaker 3:You're gonna make it happen boy barry I don't think joy wanted to hear that I just well she may not she may not want to hear it, but she probably is already thinking that in the back of her mind Like oh man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just the facts at this point, right? No, it's cool to see like everybody has A to point B because, like you were talking about talent going from racing e-bikes to switching over into getting a job and having a good job and then wanting to run his business and be, you know, pretty much self-sufficient at 31, 41, something like that, to where the business just kind of does its thing and it runs and all he's got to do is just check on it and make sure that it's good. But it's funny to see, like all the different kinds of people that you find in life where it's like man, that's that's pretty cool. You wouldn't have thought that you would get to a point b, um, being that you know your, your dad is the only person on the planet to be a atv champion and dirt bike champion, both um, but that's, that's the same thing.
Speaker 1:Like my kid, I I've raced my entire life, my dad raced before me and my kid is all about basketball. He doesn't want. He likes going and watching the races, but he doesn't want anything to do with racing. So, um, it's just, it's cool to see how, how our kids develop compared to what we decided or what we did in life. So it's uh cool to have that that aspect coming from somebody like you too, where it's like, hey, listen, this isn't just something that can happen to anybody like this is one of the greatest GNCC racers of all time and this is what's happening in his family, and his kids are not interested in the things that he was, so it's just cool.
Speaker 3:Right, right, yeah, and you know, and I'm supporting them at it, whatever they want to do, like hey, like I'm sure you support your son with doing the basketball thing, like you're probably not pushing him, like oh, you got to race. You support your son with doing a basketball thing, like you're probably not pushing him like oh you gotta race, you gotta ride, you gotta race.
Speaker 3:Like hey, wants to do basketball, okay, I'll support him. So you know it's. I think it comes back to a lot of it is what they see, the parents, or how much effort the parents are putting in. Um, you know, or or I don't know the proper words or what I'm what I'm trying to to get out here, but like the work ethic, I think, from the parents, the kids see that. And if the kids, you know, if they get to a point where you know like hey, I do want to race more, like the parents are putting in a lot of work, they're working overtime or whatever they're doing, and you know like hey, I do want to race more, like the parents are putting in a lot of work, they're working overtime or whatever they're doing, and you know they want to get me to the races, you know, I think there's a certain age where kids get to, where they start to understand that.
Speaker 3:But what I don't know is what age that is. I don't know if that's 12, 14, 19. I don't know that part. I mean, I know what my son, like you know. I mean he's 19 now, so he would have been 19 last year when that whole story I told about Iron man. So it was like he was good up until I guess. So he turned 19 in June. It probably was around June or July. He was 19 years old whenever he kind of figured out what he was doing. You know and there may be other kids at 17 or 15 or whatever. I mean I know it 15, 17, 19, 21, 40, 50 years old I knew what I wanted to do.
Speaker 3:It wanted to be dirt bikes and ATVs. That's still what I wanted to do. It wanted to be dirt bikes and atvs. That's still what I want to do. So you know it's everybody's different, but uh, you know, for me I knew that's what I wanted to do from the time I was 10, 11, let me think here. Nine years old was my first race I ever done and I loved it. I didn't do another one until I was 15.
Speaker 3:But when I was 15 and it was like I was hooked and then I started really racing a lot when I was 16 and it was like this is what I'm one, this is what I'm doing. So I was 16 when I but I also was thinking, well, I'll never make a living at this, I'll need to go to work and then after work I'll try and do or like it. Well then, at that point I was still in school. I'm like, after school I'm going riding. And then I got old enough to where, like, okay, well, I need to have a job. Well, I gotta decide, like, am I getting up and I'm, am I riding before I go to work or school or am I going to do it when I'm done, like because that's how much I wanted to ride. I mean, I know there was times where I actually got up before school and would go riding my ATV. That's how much I enjoyed it and I liked it and it's what I wanted to do.
Speaker 3:But I never set out and said I'm going to make a living at this, but that's just how much I wanted it, what I like to do. So I kind of knew that at a teenage age but I never thought it would really work out. But it comes back to me my work ethic and how much effort and time I put into it. I mean again, eat, sleep, breathe, work on and we know the ATV side. You've got to work on machines, bikes or quads, no matter what it is.
Speaker 3:But I love AT, love atvs, but the amount of work you get to do on them compared to a dirt bike is a lot more, a lot more in depth, a lot more time consuming. But that's what I did it. You know. I mean 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 years old. I mean I would be in a garage till one, two, three in the morning working on my stuff. My dad would be there working on his stuff. If I got jammed up with something, he would bail me out of it, like, oh well, what if you do this? But you know, that's what I love to do, that's what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1:So I have a question for you, and this is something that could be important for the people that want to come train with you, right?
Speaker 1:So at what point have you and maybe you haven't, but if you ever looked back on your career and been like, you know what? It's pretty cool to be in the record books for seven in a row on atvs and then, oh man, I also won a dirt bike championship. So you're in like this whole. You're in this whole other league of your own that nobody else is in or even attempted to be in, because nobody's ever crossed over and done what you've done. So when you look at your career and you're like man, I'm it, you probably don't, uh, self-bloat, but like an outsider looking in, you can look back on your career and be like I am one of the greatest people to ever throw my leg over a bike at a gncc because I've won seven titles in a row, I've won a dirt bike championship, and nobody else has done that and nobody else may never do that in the future yeah, I mean, I guess I never really think of it like, yeah, I'm a bad dude, I did it.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I never think of that. I know I honestly don't, but we do asking that question. I guess if someone came up right now or I'll just put the question out there right now if you said bryson neal is going to, you know what? He's done racing atvs. He's a quad champion. He's done racing atvs. He's going to go after the bike championship. Everybody be like, okay, what's he thinking? Like that sounds like a dumb move, like he ain't gonna win a championship. But that's what I did.
Speaker 3:It was like I'm like I was honestly I was kind of over the atv side, I was like bored with it essentially, and it was like I was training and riding a ton on the ATV or on the bike side when I was still racing the ATV. All my effort, my last year, 1999, the last year I won the ATV championship all my effort was put towards the dirt bike. There was 13 GNCCs. I rode my ATV that year 14 times. I rode it one time before the season Like I literally rode it behind my house for like 20 minutes Like yep, I broke the race quad in. It's good, but I was working, training, working out, training, riding a ton on the dirt bike and it was like I initially started out on the dirt bike to cross train to make me better on the quad. Well, I kept getting better and better and better on the bike and then it got to the point where I'm like you know what? I got an offer I'm going to go race this dirt bike and chase the dirt bike side and give up the ATV side. But essentially that's what comes back to what I was saying in the beginning. Like if bryson neal said right now like I'm done, I'm going to race the atr, I'm going to race dirt bikes, everybody would be just like what, what, what, why, like you don't understand a chance. But realistically, you know, maybe maybe he would stand a chance, maybe he's that good of a rider or understand stuff, or you didn't say the same thing about Walker Fowler. Walker might be even a better example, because you guys may know this or a lot of other people may not, but Walker race bikes. Walker and I actually were teammates on the Yamaha team, like my last year that I raced, last two years, last year that I raced. So I was back in 2009, 2010.
Speaker 3:Walker was doing really good on the ATV side and he was doing really good on the dirt bike side, and so he probably would have been 16-ish and he actually has a couple top 20 overalls on a dirt bike. That's when he was like 16, 17 years old. But he told me that yamaha came to him and said, like look, you need to figure out what you're doing with your life. Are you racing atds or dirt bikes? Because we want to support you, because he had a like he had a pretty bright, bright future, no matter if he was doing bikes or quads. He was doing better at quads. So he had to decide which direction am I going? And he decided to go atds, so you know. And then he goes on and win a bunch of races and championships, but you know he could.
Speaker 3:He can still do the same thing now, like saying, hey, I'm going dirt bike racing, like people would be like, well, you probably stand a better chance than Bryson Cause you have a couple couple top twenties, but why do you want to do that? But so I guess where I'm going with all this is like it sounds farfetched and crazy that I'd done it, but I did it and I don't really know that anybody I guess will ever do it again, but probably not, because stuff becomes so refined and you kind of have to dedicate yourself to one specific thing and put so much effort into it. But I mean, yeah, I did it, it happened, and it was like one of those things where, like yep, I guess it's pretty cool to sit and say it nobody will ever do it again like it's. It's probably the best way to say it is nobody will probably ever do that again. We probably could say nobody ever will do that again. You can take the probably part out of it.
Speaker 1:I don't think anybody will ever do it again. One I think that your training has to be so specifically focused it has to be so.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to think of the word.
Speaker 2:Specifically focused.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have to be so specific about your training nowadays that I don't know that you'd be able to switch and actually catch up.
Speaker 3:Right, yes, yeah, totally agree. Yes, You're spot on.
Speaker 1:You are spot on to say that if anybody ever had a chance, it was probably walker, yes, but he could ride a dirt bike pretty good. And I do remember that exact scenario you were talking about when I was honestly, I was like eight or nine, something like that, when that happened. So I'm 26 now, so that'd probably be about right. When they brought up the hey, listen, you got to pick which way you want to go, because you could go either way that you want, but you just have to pick one. But yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't think anybody will ever do it again, so I think that's something that you could be like. Man, that's pretty cool. I'm. I'll be the only guy to go down in history as as somebody that can do that, um, but then that it also opens up a lot of doors for you on your, your training stuff that you're doing, because it's like well, I don't have to be specific to atvs, because I've done both and I know what it takes to win on both of them right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, and I guess a good scenario or example of that is.
Speaker 3:So on saturday, at the new east coast race on saturday, I had seven people sign up on the atv side for training and I had the same exact number sign up on the bike side. So you know it's, and I was able to help all of them out. I think everybody left there, happy, smiling, felt like they learned something, was a little better at the end of the day than before they got there. And you know, and and for me, what I will say is I I feel like I can help anybody on ATV or bike, it doesn't matter. I feel like I'm a little bit more in tune with the dirt bike side because that's what I've been doing with the race team the previous nine years. So it's almost like the aid or the bike people like I. You know, hey, do this, or you know I can pick up stuff a little quicker compared to the atv side, um, and I think that simply is because of you know what my job was the past nine years. But I still also know, like a good example on the atv side, like whenever I had the youth riders, I had them um, coming up to a log, a log, really slow and just like, pop the front end over. And I kept telling them to do it. And I did the same scenario on Sunday with the bikes and the youth riders on the bikes. They all did it. Most of them was doing it before I had to explain it. There's a few of them. I had to explain what to do Pop the clutch, lean back, give it a little bit of throttle, lift the front end over the log, don't just plow into the log. So the bike people got it quicker than the quad people, but I kept telling them what to do on the ATV side. You know, hey, come up and lean back and give it throttle and like I'm telling them to do it, telling them to do it, and they really weren't. And they really weren't. I don't know that I wasn't doing a good job explaining it. Or it isn't as common on an ATV to have to willy a log as it is on a bike.
Speaker 3:Or the repercussions on a quad of going over a log isn't as bad as it is on a bike, because if you hit a log on a bike on an angle when it's wet, it goes south pretty quick On a quad, you kind of hit it and you're not going to fall down where you could on a bike. But anyhow, one of the riders said I don't think my quad has enough power to wheelie over it. I said, okay, okay, well, let me, can I get on your quad? And he was like, yeah, here you go. So I got on his quad and I came up to it pop the clutch. Clutch, lean back, give it throttle and wheelie it over. And I went back to him and I handed it to him. I said quads got enough power. I weigh more than you. You guys can do it. Well, they kept working on it and they finally got it.
Speaker 3:But that comes back to like what you were saying, like I'm, or what I was saying like I'm a little more in tune with the bike people, because what I've been doing but I guess it comes back to my skill set, whether I wasn't explaining it to the ATV people wrong, or maybe they just don't there's not as many circumstances that they've had to do it compared to the bike guys. Whatever it was, I jumped on the quad and did it and showed them like yeah, it can be done, here's how you do it. So you know, there's not a lot of people that would have that skill set. I guess that can just jump on it and do it, you know. So you know, but it's fun for me to, especially with the youth riders to, you know, if they're like, yeah, I can't do it, don't have enough power, well, you know what, maybe you're right. But then when I've done it, I'm like, yeah, it does have enough power. Here you go, keep working on it, let's go.
Speaker 1:Well, that comes in super handy. Sometimes it's not always just staying on the track where it's clean. Sometimes you've got to make a line or something. Somewhere you get into a spot where it's a little bit of a tougher situation. You want to be able to do stuff like that, like if I'm I'm going to go over a tree, I'm not just going to blast into a tree I am I want to get the front end up and over and then I want to get to there as smoothly as possible.
Speaker 1:Um, so I think it's important to know things like that when you're on a boiler, and the fact that you can teach people how to do that, that maybe that's not the focus that they've ever had, or maybe nobody's ever been like, hey, you can do this on a four-wheeler. Um, I think that that's. That's great, that you have the ability to show them like that, because, yeah, there's things that you do on a dirt bike that if you could show somebody how to do it with a four-wheeler, it would be super beneficial.
Speaker 3:Right. Well, that specific circumstance of that log and I explained this to everyone I worked with, whether it was on ATV or dirt bike this log that I had them going over was right beside a little loop that I had laid out that we had ridden. Everybody dirt bike and ATV had been through this loop a ton of times and it was actually it was luck where this log was laying. So on this little loop that I had laying out, there was a couple really tight trees that you had to go through. So I told them, I had them all do go over this all and, you know, explain to them like here's what you need to do, like the ones that really didn't understand it, you know I went a little more in depth with them, but anyhow, I told all them. I said here's why I want you to know and be comfortable going over a log. So if this was the racetrack and we came down here, we're all racing, we get down here and all of a sudden you got a quad that broke up, an A-arm or a dirt bike that someone fell over and they're stuck in the tree, well, all of a sudden you have 10 people stacked up behind you. You got a bottleneck. Well, if you look to the left, there was like 30 trees laying on the ground, but if you look to the right, there was this one log. I said if this was a race circumstance? This is why I want you to understand this and be comfortable going over log, racing, coming down there's oh, there's a bottleneck. Look to the left, I ain't going that way. There's 30 logs. Look to the right, there's one log. You have to turn and go over that log. Well, you need to be comfortable doing that, rather than just sitting there and like, oh, I'm in a bottleneck, I'm just going to sit here for five minutes till it clears out. Like, if you want to go, like, you like I gotta go. Man, I can't sit here and wait like.
Speaker 3:That's why I try to explain and I do that any class or any one-on-one I do. I try to explain that situation to people, but I do it after they go over the log. I don't tell them like this is why I want you to learn it, which I can tell some of them is like yeah, I don't really know if I need to go this long or not, but after I explain it to them that everybody's like yep makes perfect sense. That's why I need to be comfortable going over logs, the race situation that could come up. We've all been there, we've all been. It's raced more than anybody that's raced more than one time. You came around the corner and there's a bottleneck and like well, what do I do? Do I try and go around it or do I sit here? And I've never been a person where I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to sit here and let it clear out. I'm like I gotta go, I gotta figure something out. I might get stuck trying to go around it, but at least I'm trying to go forward.
Speaker 1:For sure. I mean, I was always taught that. Uh, my dad always tried to tell me you got five seconds to make a choice. He said maybe good, maybe bad, but at least you went somewhere Right. But when you're in a game of inches right like racing is a game of inches it could come down to the final turn and if you didn't cross that log then maybe you lose the race. Maybe you win because you did, but you never want to take the chance on messing that up. So I believe you've got five seconds when you come into a bottleneck, to find somewhere to go, because if not you're losing too much time.
Speaker 3:Yep, I've raced a lot, a lot of races in my life, and there's probably been. If I had to put a percentage on it, I would probably say 75 of the time I have got around a bottleneck or got around an issue. 75 of the time it's worked out for me.
Speaker 3:But there's also that 25 of the time where I try to willy along or jump a ditch or whatever it is because I got to go and I don't really make it and I fall over, or I'm on a quad and I try to jump a ditch or whatever it is and I get stuck. Now I'm even in a worse position than I was sitting. I should have just sit there. But you know, there's these times where the majority of the time I'm like I've got to figure it out and, yeah, the majority of the time it has worked out for me. But I'm just not going to sit there and wait, like this isn't like the interstate here, it's not I-79 running north or south through Pennsylvania, west Virginia, like there's a bottleneck, like you're just going to sit there. This is a race. Like, if we're racing, I'm going through the median, I'm doing whatever I can, I gotta go. I ain't sitting here.
Speaker 1:We gotta make stuff happen, I agree, I uh, I'd rather lose trying than uh lose by sitting still.
Speaker 2:So I've always said that make a decision, even though it's the wrong one. At least you're doing something to better your position.
Speaker 1:Yep, I will die with my decision.
Speaker 1:Uh, no, it's. Uh. It's great seeing somebody like you giving like, getting sorry, I can't talk giving back to the sport, because I think it's awesome to pass that knowledge on to other people. I think it's awesome that now you're in a position where you can be available for people to even get that access. Um, whereas before you were, you were pretty busy with going race teams and and things like that.
Speaker 1:But you've seen all aspects of racing, you've done it, you've lived it. Anything that you can think of. You've been a part of it, right. So I think it's great that you can pass on the knowledge. I think it's great that you can help with the bike setups and things like that, but obviously we're not going to try to keep you in here all night. But, um, last couple of things that I would have for you is moving forward, how, uh, how would people get ahold of you to do things? And then kind of like what's some uh ideas of some places, that maybe some camps or, uh, if you're doing more of the new East coast events and stuff like that, like some places that people could get in touch with you to be able to do some riding and learn some stuff from you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my website is HRD Racing, hrd Hawk Racing Development, hrdracingcom, and I have there's a lot of information on there. I don't really have any of my camps on there, but there's a lot of info. If you go there and check that out, it's not like a 20 page website where you got to dig through stuff, I think. I think it's personally like it's kind of shortened to the point. Or you can look me up on Instagram, facebook Facebook is just Barry Hawk Instagram. I think it's b hawk, I think it's b hawk 8x on instagram. Um, but on the instagram, facebook and my website, I have my phone number on there. Uh, people can call me, you can text me, um, and we can try and figure something out. I had a guy today that called me and once, uh, once we work with his son. He's nine years old, um, and we can try and figure something out. I had a guy today that called me and wants me to work with his son. He's nine years old. We've got something set up for January. Sorry, we've got something set up for April 7th, but you know, the kid races a little bit here and there. But the dad wanted the scenario of more of a one-on-one because he feels his kid might be a little intimidated if he's around, like at a school or a camp, with other people. This father wants his son to do a one-on-one and get comfortable. Then he will in some of my classes or my camps. Then he can incorporate and put the kid in there and be around other kids. And that that's just one specific circumstance I will have like for next weekend. Uh, lane michael and myself we have a camp set up it's for bikes only in north carolina, which is, uh, look at the calendar here real quick. That would be april 5th. Um, we have lane. Yeah, lane and myself have something set up in north carolina. So I may I don't really know for sure yet I may do the camp down there with lane on saturday and then I might try and get back up here on Sunday for the new East coast and do something. I don't know if I'll do. I guess I would probably have to do ATVs on Sunday. That's still for me to figure out, but, um, yeah, so I had the lane thing set up. Uh, yeah, april 5th, and then the following weekend is a Tennessee GNCC, and then the April 19th and 20th weekend, and I'm just giving you my outlook. On weekends, which typically this time of the year, kids are still in school, I plan on doing something. There's a sprint enduro that weekend and I probably will have some classes at the sprint enduro. Um that weekend 9 april 19 and 20 then the following weekend, the end of april's, the uh, new east coast race. Um, I probably will do the same thing at that as I've done this this past weekend, where I will have atv classes on saturday and I will have bike classes on sunday. So that's not set in stone either, but but that's my plan for April as of right now.
Speaker 3:But if somebody wants to do something one-on-one or somebody wants to have hey, there's two or three buddies that want to do something, I can do anything from one-on-one up to 10 people. If you're hey, you guys want to do something, we got 10 guys I can work with 10 of you guys and figure it out. I personally could do more, but I don't like to do more than 10 people because I feel like I'm pulled too many different directions and I can't really give enough help if there's more than 10 people. So, um, yeah, if somebody got questions, call, text. Um, I think the email's on there as well, um, I personally prefer a text or a phone call, um, but everybody's different and everybody wants to work differently.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, we can try and figure something out and, uh, I'm, I'm open to all options. So, whatever, you know, somebody's thinking about doing something. You know, just by giving me a call or sending a text doesn't mean we're, you know, hey, we're going to make it happen. We can. Just, I can answer some questions for them and you know, give, if they want to do it, they want to do it. If they don't want to do it, I understand. That's business.
Speaker 1:Like, hey, that's, I'll try and help them the best of my ability. No, that's, that's awesome. I just, uh, I wanted people to be able to kind of know some of the things that you might have coming up and some ways to to get a hold of you. I know that you're pretty open about letting people uh get in touch with you to uh, um, give them the access to get in touch with you to be able to set things up. And uh, I know I knew you could do the the one-on-ones and you got different levels of packages and stuff like that. So just thought that it'd be good you'd be able to give them the overview of some things and, uh, you know, just give them the all-actionist pass.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and one thing I do want to mention and I've had a lot of people ask me. This is like so, whether it's a one-on-one or it's two, there's two riders or there's ten, or I do a class with you know the people, like at the New East Coast, the question I get asked most frequently is well, how do you when like for the new East Coast, we'll use that for an example Whenever we go out, I already have a loop. I have like a predetermined area where we're going to go. So parents typically ask me like well, what are you going to work on? Well, what I do is say the three of us, we go. Well, what are you going to work on? Well, what I do is say the three of us, we go out. There we're going to work together.
Speaker 3:I go find a loop where we're going to go and I try to make it challenging. It's not too tough, but we'll go, do a loop and I have everybody follow me for a couple laps, so everybody knows where to go. Then I wave everyone by me. It doesn't matter if it's one-on-one, but I'm again, I'm using the example for the new east coast there's seven riders. I wave them by me. Everybody go. So then I jump in behind them. Now they know where they're going. I'm like you know, go at a good pace, like what's your comfortable going, whether it's raised pace or 80, 90, whatever you go, why jump in behind them? And I start following them. Then I they're who, it doesn't matter who it is if the slowest riders, last or I may pass him, go to the next one. I ride, be try to ride behind every rider and I evaluate them and I think, because I've been around it forever, I can pick up really easily what the deficiency is in a rider. Some people it might be their setup. Their setup might be really really off. Some people might be they don't have good riding technique, they just ride too far forward or they're too far back. But I can pick up really easily and I'll pull the person over and I'll be like, hey, you're sitting down everywhere, you need to stand up here and here, and then try and go through it and then I'll watch them and then I jump on my bike and I'll go follow another rider and then I'll pull them over and I'll be like, hey, your bike, it looks like the sag is really like not where it needs to be. Let's go adjust it. So we'll adjust the sag. So I don't like have a specific curriculum of this is what I'm doing and I'm sticking to it. I base off every individual rider what they need the most, the most work on.
Speaker 3:And another quick example was on the bike day, east coast. So when we took off and it was the adult class, we go down and we're riding through and I could tell that something, the setup just was not right. The guy's bike, I could just it looked like it was like bottomed out everywhere he was riding and it wasn't even a rough part of the track. So I'm like, hey, let's go check the sag. We went check the sag and I learned something when I checked the sag the sag stick goes to 130 millimeters. Well, he was a past that typically on a dirt bike you want to be between I mean, the magic number is between like 100 to 108, but he's at 100, 130 plus. So I'm like, oh, we got to adjust this. So we I to tighten the spring up a bunch.
Speaker 3:And he went and wrote it again.
Speaker 3:This all happened in a 10, 15 minute time frame.
Speaker 3:He went and wrote it again.
Speaker 3:This all happened in a 10-15 minute time frame.
Speaker 3:He went and wrote it on that same loop and he's like man, I I feel like I'm I'm just floating through stuff now like I can't believe how much better it feels.
Speaker 3:But that comes back to like me watching and evaluating and understanding like this person needed more help with his bike setup more than he did with his riding technique. But then the next day you know I might have been with someone else that they their bikes good, their quads good, whatever it is they need more help with their riding technique. It comes back to me just being around the sport forever and looking at someone ride for a couple minutes and be like, okay, this is what they need to work on. So it's not. I don't want to say it's easy for me. I think it's just I can pick up on it really quick from just being around the sport for 37 years and being on ATVs and being on bikes and watching them. And it doesn't even matter if you're a bicycle, if you want to race a bicycle. I got experience doing that so I could probably help you with that.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to say, Barry, if I come there and you follow me, you'll have your work cut out for you, because I probably do everything wrong other than thinking that I can do it right.
Speaker 3:You know what? You know what? Those are usually my easiest or the best riders that I like to work with, because there's so much that we can work on. We can just keep working, and working, and working and you leave there happy because you're like man, this is really good. I'm faster now than I was an hour ago.
Speaker 2:Well, I guarantee that had probably happened, because if you talk to colton, uh, I'm sure he'll tell you how slow I am, but I I can, actually I can't keep up with him, um, so I really have no room to talk. So maybe one of these days I'll, uh, I'll come out there and you know, you, me and devon and colton, and I'll do one lap, and then I'll just agree to get drinks for everybody. So, um, and then you could focus on the people that actually have a shot at at finishing a race.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hey, we can work on it, we can have fun. I keep saying that at the end of the day, I want everyone to learn something, to be a little faster or a little more confident when they leave, but I also want everyone to have fun. That's the big thing is have fun doing it. Let's. You know, to me this is work, this is my job, but I enjoy it. So if I can make someone else a little faster and they can leave there with a smile on their face, well that means I've done my job and they left with a smile on their face. So, you know, had fun, because really, at the end of the day, we all started doing this because it was fun, you know, and there's been days where it was my job racing for years and years, and there was not just a few days, there was many, many, many days where it wasn't fun, but if you go back to your roots and just have fun, it's like, man, this is fun.
Speaker 3:This is why I started doing this a long time ago, Cause I just want to have fun. So that's that's why I keep saying I just try to keep the fun in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, barry, this comes the time in the show where I have to be the bad guy, Cause, if you let me, me and Devin will talk forever and, um, before you know it, we've got to end the show because we got to go to work. But I appreciate more than anything you coming on here Cause, like I was telling Devin, I was like this is the one guy that has accomplished so much in this sport and doing this show. I've talked to a lot of people but, like you're the one guy that I I know people. I know more people that know you than than people that race that don't. And I'm like I've never, I can't even pick out Barry in a lineup if you showed him to me, and I'm kind of embarrassed at that. Um, but like when Devin brought it up, I was like man, I'd love to actually talk to Barry because I mean, of what he's accomplished and what he means to the sport, um, and I mean I, we could go on forever, but I mean, unfortunately, we have to kind of I kind of got to respect everybody's time, not just ours but the people that are suffering through this when I talk, um, but I hope this isn't the last time that you come on here, and I really do hope that we can all get together and and and do something, uh, whether it's a class or or a camp or something, and I hope that you know people listening to this will look at it and say, well, you know why wouldn't I want to come and have Barry Hawk teach me how to go faster or, in my case, just survive? Um, but yeah, I appreciate it, barry. Like I said me, me and Devin could keep you on forever, but we're going to respect your time, and I've actually been telling my wife like this whole week I'd like to get to bed by nine o'clock, and it never happens. Uh, I'm sure, I'm sure my daughter still hasn't had her ice cream yet, so I got to go contend with that.
Speaker 2:The natives are good and restless. I can hear them upstairs, but I do, from the bottom of my heart, appreciate you coming on. Uh, I I look forward to getting to know you and and talking some more and and and getting Colton to work with you, if, if, we can get him to do that, um. But yeah, thank you for coming on Um anytime. Uh, you want to come on uh and talk about anything? Um, you know it. It doesn't even have to be this um you, you're more than welcome. So thank you, um Devin you got anything else?
Speaker 1:No, I just uh. I was just going to say Barry probably hates every time that he uh sees the phone ring with my name on it because I ask questions and keep them for way too long.
Speaker 3:No, no, not at all. I mean yeah, I mean I love being on here, I love talking, uh, doing stuff like this, I mean I think probably when you get to know me, I I open up and I'll talk and talk and talk. I think my persona at the races is where, like I, really I don't. I'm not an outgoing person at the races, but if you know me, like I can give you a good example is scotty wilhelm. I've known scotty wilhelm for a long time race pro atb years ago. His wife races, now his son, ron Wilhelm, races. And Scotty told me something a few months ago and when he said it I was like I guess he's right. But he said people like if you know Barry, you know him, it's. And I think when he said that, like when you know him, you really know him.
Speaker 3:I think it's because I don't like I I'm not just like bouncing around, hey guys, how are you doing? I'm not that type of person. But if you talk to me more than likely like people need to come talk to me, I know what I'm doing now I probably should be more outgoing for what I'm trying to do with the training, but it's just my that's. My demeanor is like I'm usually, I think, probably pretty quiet at the race and I'm just kind of standing around in the shadows and if somebody wants some information I'll be glad to talk to your off and explain stuff, but if not, I just kind of stand back and observe. I'm just sitting back watching, listening and do you, you know, do my own thing, but you know it's in the end. It's like I know it's my job, I know I need to be a little bit more outgoing.
Speaker 3:But doing this, talking to you guys, you know I enjoyed it. I had fun. I definitely want to come back on and we can talk about whatever we. We don't have to talk about my training stuff. We can talk about what. I mean. We can make fun of devon and his racing and well, you want to go do this and do that? Well, you can really do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's beat up on devon yeah whatever it is we can, we can do whatever yeah, barry hawks, on my side, devon we're, uh, we're not talking about any of my first couple races, because I guarantee they're going to be that impressive.
Speaker 1:So you uh, when you're off the bike for nine months without even without even riding one, let alone racing, um, I'm, I'm facing some tall tasks here but you know what?
Speaker 3:that could be something we could talk about. You know what devin said he wasn't going to do worth the crap. Well, he did. Or we could say you know what devin said he wouldn't do worth the crap, but you know what he really did, do he? He tried, beat his expectations, he tried and he did pretty good. So let's talk about devin for a little bit or whatever it is, I mean, yeah, I'll come back on, I'll do whatever.
Speaker 2:Whatever we got to talk about, I'm good we'll have to carve out some time, because it it seems that if you get us three together that it's going to be a show that's going to last. We're too meant to well. We're at an hour and 39 minutes right now, and that's not including the hour devvin and I were rambling on before that. So I sometimes, when I see Devin call, I'm like God, I can't answer it because I only have 30 minutes of talk.
Speaker 1:So, but yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Barry, we're going to let you go enjoy the rest of your night, and we will be in touch okay, guys, I appreciate it and I had fun and, yeah, looking forward to doing something in the future awesome, we'll see you, barry, thank you thanks guys all right, that was barry hawk, eight time national champion, seven on the atvs, one on the bikes something that I never think will ever happen again.
Speaker 2:Uh, basically, like you said, devin, everything's just so specialized right now it's more of a you know what. We're not even going to keep going down that road. We said we're going to end the, we're going to end the show. We're going to end the show because I know if I start going down that road, there's several other turns down there and before I know it, um, we're cutting off cause we got to go to work.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's right. So, uh, I think it was a good show for the first one back in in over a year. Uh, I hope everyone enjoyed it. I'm gonna go up, I'm gonna talk to my kids and talk to my wife and I'm gonna get ready to go to bed. What about you, devin?
Speaker 1:I know you don't sleep, so yeah, I'm going to uh go up, I'll probably help with the kids for a little bit, then, uh, I'll probably work out, and then I need to go drop a trailer off for some metal roof to be put on it, but probably do that sometime during the middle of the night and then, uh, I gotta get to charleston by like seven o'clock, 7, 30 in the morning, so, um, a little bit of a drive to get there, but uh, yeah, we, we got to do that, and then I'll work all day and come home and do it all over again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've not always been. Uh proved to be the smartest people, but we try like hell.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to trying to build a business.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:All right, right, all right man, so.
Speaker 2:So I'll be talking to you and, um, yeah, good show yeah, hopefully everybody likes it and we'll be back for some more, that's right. All right, talk to everybody later. Thanks for listening. See you at the track.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, a couple weeks yeah, we're out all right bye.