25. What does the economy need to look like by 2030?

In this conversation, Namir Anani, President and CEO of the Information and Communications Technology Council (ICTC), discusses the roadmap for a sustainable, equitable, and circular future for Canada. He emphasizes the need for Canada to address climate change, enhance resiliency, and improve productivity. Anani highlights the importance of addressing the commercialization gap and fostering a culture of risk-taking within companies. He also advocates for the development of an industrial strategy and the acceleration of the circular economy. Ultimately, Anani emphasizes the importance of talent in driving the future of the Canadian economy.

Takeaways

• Canada needs to address climate change and meet its environmental and social obligations while leveraging the net zero challenge into net economic gain.
• Resiliency and productivity are key factors for Canada's economy, requiring the management of supply chains, financial systems, and the productivity gap.
• Addressing the commercialization gap is crucial for Canada to turn intellectual property into commercial products and drive economic growth.
• Fostering a culture of risk-taking within companies is essential for innovation and competitiveness.
• Canada needs an industrial strategy that focuses on diversification, sustainable development, and addressing gaps in the economy.
• Accelerating the circular economy requires extended producer responsibility, circular design, taxation incentives, and consumer education.
• Balancing priorities for governments involves long-term strategic thinking and collaboration with industry and stakeholders.
• Talent is the essence of a high-performing economy, and reskilling and upskilling are crucial for driving innovation and attracting businesses to Canada.

Thanks for tuning in to The Circular Future. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

Interested in joining us as a guest? Reach out to Sanjay Trivedi at strivedi@quantumlifecycle.com.

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Transcript

It's common for businesses to have long -term roadmaps to know where they want to go and how to get there. So where should Canada go for a sustainable, equitable, circular future? Welcome to the circular future, your access to thought leaders and innovations to help you be a business sustainability champion, even if it's not your core job. I'm your host, Stephanie McClarty, Head of Sustainability at Quantum Lifecycle Partners.

There is a lot at stake for 2030. We need to cut our global emissions by half by then to limit the worst of climate change. The United Nations Sustainable Development Goals also state that all people should enjoy peace and prosperity by 2030. How do we do that and have a prosperous economy? What does our country's roadmap need to look like? With me to unpack this is Namir Anani.

President and CEO at Information and Communications Technology Council, the ICTC. With over 25 years of experience in policy development across both the private and public sectors, Namir currently leads the ICTC, a dynamic organization at the forefront of advancing Canada's digital advantage on the global stage. Welcome to the podcast, Namir. Thank you. Delighted to be here, Steph.

Now, I'm sure a lot of people know the ICTC and some others may not as well. So we always like to start by asking, what would be three things that the world should know about the ICTC? Yeah, so to expand on that, I think the first thing is that we're a neutral national center of expertise for the digital economy with over 100 employees or professionals strong with the aim of advancing Canada's digital advantage.

in a global context, make Canada the best it can be in a global context. The second is that we are a research and policy entity tackling aspects from competitive market analysis to labor markets to economics to technology innovations to foreign direct investment, intellectual property and many others to provide policy advisors or policy decision makers with the right insights and information across the country.

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And the third is that we provide capacity building to help Canadians acquire the skills necessary for today and tomorrow's economy, but also to help companies digitally transform and become more competitive on the global stage. So you've got a really great lens from a macro level to understand what's going on and where we need to go. And at Quantum, we just finished some strategic planning looking ahead. So from your view, Nimir, when you think about

Canada and where Canada needs to go, what do you think the economy should look like by 2030? What should we be thinking about? Yeah, it's interesting. I think the simple answer is that it should be sustainable, resilient, globally competitive. It should be safe and secure, innovative and enterprising. But also it should create, you know, it should be a shared economy for all Canadians, equitable.

for all Canadians going forward, ultimately. But let me unbundle this a little bit and provide some context. I think it's fair to say that we live in an era of rapid disruption with global forces demanding our full attention from climate change to geopolitical afflictions, inflationary trends, cyber threats, health risks, and changing labor markets as well. But all come against the backdrop of...

advanced digital technologies that on one side they're creating innovations, but on the other side they're disrupting industries faster, frankly, than economies can adjust. But if we look at the main aspects of what Canada or the Canadian economy should look like by 2030, clearly the biggest endeavor of our time is climate change. And the race is on for not only Canada to meet its obligations by 2050, but the world by meeting the net zero by 2030.

but also maintaining the temperature to 1 .5 degrees, assuming that we can maintain it to that through the mitigation strategies, the adaptation or the regeneration strategies. But what is interesting is that through a lot of body of research that has been published recently, including McKinsey, they estimated that the world will have to instead invest around 9 .2 trillion US dollars. That's a...

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per year to arrive at the 2050 net zero target. That's the equivalent of approximately five times the economy of Canada per year. So the question becomes is how can Canada play in that space, not only in meeting its environmental and social obligations, but leveraging that economy, attracting that investment, and turning that net zero challenge into net economic gain for Canada.

The second part is obviously the resiliency. I think coming out of the pandemic, we have to manage in terms of what are the supply chain mechanisms that we need from French shoring, nearshoring to create that stability going forward, but also stability and resiliency in our financial system and our infrastructure. And also how to tackle the productivity gap issue that we have faced for the last 15 years. How do we

improve and tackle the commercialization deficit and create an economy for all Canadians ultimately in the next number of years. So I'll stop at that and I'm sure that we can expand on various aspects going forward. Yeah. So one of the questions I have for you is, I mean, you speak of, you know, what we face in terms of climate change, these issues that we all face with across the world. Also, you know,

AI and all these disruptors. Where does Canada sit against what other countries are doing? Are we ahead? Are we falling behind? Where does that sit in terms of other countries? Well, you know, we're a strong economy. We're part of the G7. We're very much enterprising. We have great talent. We have very strong academic institutions and research and development entities, ultimately.

on that. Where we lag behind a little bit is on the productivity factor that I mentioned, but also the commercialization deficit. We create a lot of intellectual property, but taking it to commercialization and driving economic rent out of it has not been a strong aspect or a strong feature of what we do in Canada. And I think this is where we have to strengthen going forward because ultimately to compete on the global scale, we need to position better.

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going forward. So how do we actually do that? How do we address the commercialization gap? And how do we do that for companies to turn that into action? Yeah, I mean, there are many aspects for this. I mean, the commercialization gap has been an aspect that we have struggled with as a nation or as an economy for the last number of years of how best to turn IP into

commercial products. And obviously, there's some consultation happening within the government of Canada at the moment in terms of approaches and policy, like the patent box. The patent box is basically one that will provide taxation relief for companies not only to create IP, but to take it to commercialization. Quite good incentives, you know, from 15 % to 25 % in different countries to almost 5%.

hence driving more of the emphasis on commercialization. I think education and capacity building within companies is important. I think government procurement is important to help smaller companies and startups to get into that space. But ultimately it's about risk taking as well, how to make sure that our companies compete internationally, not only locally. Do you think the risk taking piece of this is

a something to do differently or is it more of shifting our mindsets as a business community or a bit of both? I think it's a bit of both. I think we are a strong economy. We're blessed with many resources ultimately on that. But if you look at some of the smaller economies that are facing some of the challenges from powerhouse economies around them with limited resources,

they have the impetus to create innovation ultimately and to take it to commercialization because it's survival ultimately. And we have to do that in the next number of years because if we look at, as I mentioned, that we have been blessed as an economy to be a G7, part of the G7, however, the tide is changing on us with advent of the emerging economies from

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India, Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia, Turkey, China, and many others in that space, that it's expected by 2035, their combined GDP will supersede that of the G7 countries. And by 2050, in fact, will double that of the GDP. All of this is aided by their younger demographics, but also by their ability to...

enhance their productivity and create products and services that can compete on the marketplace and by their innate capacity to commercialize the product. So I have to sit up and take notice of this environment and look at how to position Canada by 2030 to basically to create an environment that we're able to compete on that global stage. Yeah, it's so fascinating. We've basically got competition.

as a country among other countries and especially these more emerging economies. So the commercialization gap is one of those areas that we need to address. What else do we need to address as a country? So the productivity, as I mentioned, the competitive landscape, Canada has to be more competitive on all levels, whether it's the transportation sector, the communication sector and others.

All competition drives innovation. And again, as I mentioned, the ability for Canada to not only create competitive companies in Canada, but internationally will be the way to go forward. Attracting foreign direct or quality foreign direct investment to create the right ecosystems in Canada and support the startup community and create international channels for them.

going forward or global channels going forward is the way to go as well. But obviously in selecting these foreign direct investment attraction companies, we have to set the right guardrails for them to make sure that if they do establish in Canada and ultimately public investment is made into that space, that it benefits Canada in terms of maintaining the IP in Canada and in terms of maintaining the jobs in Canada.

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and the research and the development and many other factors. And I think we have to continue to be a student in that space by attracting the right investment, by creating the right framework to benefit Canada going forward. Nimir, a lot of our podcast listeners are business managers and business leaders looking to make sense of where we are and where we're going. So in terms of this whole area of productivity and increasing productivity, what do you think it means for them?

who in many ways are like boots on the ground and doing a lot of this policy work, delivering on the policies. What does increasing productivity look like for them? Yeah, let me step back. I mean, I think that it's important to know that there is an intricate link and a complex link between productivity and inflation ultimately. Because if we're not, the large majority of Canada's industry is micro and small medium enterprises.

If they're not able to produce products and services that compete on the international stage, obviously that drives inflation within the economy. But ultimately, it impacts our trade deficit, we'll be importing more than exporting, and hence impacts the industry. And it may affect our ability to meet the demand in the country. And if the demand is more than the supply, it also drives inflation.

and may spiral wages ultimately at the end of the day. But if you get granular and look at what can these industries do, obviously digital adoption and digital transformation can play a big component. And while there is some reticence to the advent of AI technology and blockchain and others, ultimately humanity has always relied on intelligence to advance its economy and society.

AI is another tool in the toolbox to do that. And if we leverage it well in advanced manufacturing, supply chain logistics, health, electronic health or records by also creating a more digital future on e -commerce commercialization, digital identity, and many other factors, we are able then to produce products and services.

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at a much more competitive landscape or much competitive pricing that we have done in the past and making the country and making the economy and making those industries more resilient to economic shocks in the future. So it's basically like if we don't embrace the power of AI and of course, responsible AI here in Canada, then somebody else probably will.

and that could harm us. Definitely. I mean, this is happening around the world and economies are set by the first mover advantage who has developed this and leverage that technology to the extent necessary going forward. And I think we have to look at all of these technologies, but also look at their applications in the economy and say, how can I leverage AI to

and has my productivity factor. And there is a fear of how AI is going to impact the job market ultimately. And I think, you know, if you look at the most advanced economies with the highest automation robotics, ultimately have the lowest unemployment rate. The reason for that is that they have figured a way that where the academic institutions are always able to reskill and upscale that those resources or that talent to be able to.

get back into the marketplace, they may have been displaced in one sector, but aggregate, there are a lot of more jobs being created with advanced technologies. As I mentioned, as an organization, we develop a lot of labor market and our forecast indicate that for the net new jobs that are being created, whether it's in electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles, the remote diagnostic of health,

e -commerce and others are much larger than the jobs that are being displaced. And here's where the challenge is going to be is how do we re -skill, up -skill that talent to take on the new jobs or the jobs of tomorrow? I'm fascinated by that. So basically those places with the higher rate of adoption of robotics actually have a lower unemployment rate. Like that's counterintuitive for most people.

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Yeah, I mean, it goes back to the fact that when I started my career in Switzerland in automation robotics and the pharmaceutical and chemical industries, it's true as we took on different plans, the whole idea was to create efficiencies using automation robotics. But ultimately, companies adopt technologies because they want to increase yield, quality and enhance shareholder value.

By the time I left five years later, the industry is true, that when we took on a plant of 85 employees and approximately 18 people lost their job, by the time I left, there were 320 employees in that company producing products and services that were sold internationally. That's the focus of companies in terms of adopting technology to increase yield, to increase, you know, enhance their

products and services in scale and scope and it has shareholder value ultimately. So it claims itself that many of these countries have the lowest unemployment rate. So as a business manager, business leader, don't be afraid to leverage AI, embrace automation and also as an employee, as an individual, don't be afraid to be open to

new positions to upskilling because that's the future of jobs. And it's probably a great message to teach all of our kids as well as they enter this world. Definitely. The future is with much of these innovative technologies going forward. And the most important aspect to remember is how do we best leverage that and, you know, extract the best benefit for the business, for the economy going forward.

and for employment ultimately. Namir, I know you've talked before about we need an industrial strategy here in Canada. When you talk about industrial strategy, what does that mean and what does Canada need for an industrial strategy? An industrial policy and industrial strategy has been around for a number of years. And in the past, the main focus is about

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picking winners and losers from the industry and sectors is something to advance the economy. We have to reflect differently as an economy going forward, specifically by 2030, 2035. We have to have that strategic approach in our mind. And if we are looking to develop an industrial policy, it's an industrial policy to lift all the economies. So ultimately, we have to reflect in terms of...

What type of diversification strategy that we need as an economy? Beyond also the renewables, but also how to promote sustainable development within businesses. How do we address the gaps in what we talked about, the commercialization deficit, the productivity gap, how to create an economy for all ultimately? So policy objectives of this industrial strategy should be about addressing the gaps, not specifically.

focusing on one industry or another, on how to lift all the economy collectively by tackling some of the aspects that we need to address, knowing what the market is telling us in the climate change, the disruption in the economy, the structural transformation of our economy going forward, and many other aspects that we have to reflect on. So that would be the industrial strategy that we need as an economy.

to fix that going forward. What are our core competencies, if you will, as a country? Like if we're starting from our position today and we need to address the gaps of where we need to go, what are our strikes in our competitive advantage as Canada, especially against other countries?

Well, obviously, as I mentioned, the talent capabilities are very strong. I mean, the talent that comes out of our academic institutions, but also within the industry is quite strong. The research and development capability of Canada are well renowned, the academic institutions as well. Our capacity to generate intellectual property is very capable in that domain. We are a very innovative and enterprising economy. You know, we are financially

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stable as an economy comparatively with other G7 countries. The fact that despite the jet debt to GDP, you know, we maintain our credit rating and credit rating is important because that's the one that attracts foreign direct investment. Ultimately, these are the strength that we have as an economy. And what we have to think of is how do we fine tune the gaps that we have? And I think if we fine tune the gaps,

we'll have a very strong position on the podium, on the international podium going forward. To pick up something you said earlier, so you're saying one of our strengths as Canada is our capacity to develop IP, our gap lies in the commercialization of that IP, is that right? Correct. Okay, interesting. Let's move on to our rapid fire how -to section where I get to ask you...

different questions and you can answer it short or long, whatever is the appropriate answer. Okay, our first one is because we talk about the circular future here on this podcast, Namir, how do we accelerate the circular economy?

It's a very interesting question. I think many countries are reflecting on that aspect. But I would say, I think the first thing that we should do as a nation is promote the extended producer responsibility, making sure that producers of goods are responsible for the whole life cycle of their products and services, right to recycling on that. I think ultimately also we should encourage as a nation circular design and that's starting early in schooling.

as well as much developing the capacity within the industry as well to do that. Taxation incentives for the industry is also important to provide that capability for the industry to be more enticed to be in that space and create a circular economy. I think we also not only have to focus on the industry, we have to focus on consumers like you and I.

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education is going to be important in the next number of years because one side of it is ensuring that the product life cycle is meeting the circular economy, but you and I should also play in that space. One other aspect that I think is that government can play a bigger role in that as well in its procurement strategy, making sure that it's procuring from industries or businesses.

that have adopted a circular economy approach. But I think as a nation, a circular concept is very important for us because we are a resource country. And if you look at even the critical minerals that we have, we house many of the critical minerals that are so needed. And it's a finite resource worldwide that is so needed for the renewables, but also for the digital space, for the semiconductor and others. And...

thinking of strategies to create a circular and recycle those critical minerals is going to be important going forward. I can't agree more. You're at Quantum, we talk about closing the loop. So to what you speak of, there's finite materials, we need to recycle them and close that loop and really create that circular approach to how we build products, how we...

mine for materials and so much more. So yes. Okay, next how to question. And we talked a little bit about this before. How to foster a culture of risk taking within companies? Yeah, I think, as I mentioned, it's very similar to circular economy. I think we have to develop as well. I mean, we are an enterprising economy.

means very entrepreneurial, but I think we have to develop also the entrepreneurial capacity early in schooling as well, as much as we can help some of the companies become more risk takers in their approaches going forward. You know, we as an organization, we have developed recently something called AIM, Agile Industry Mindset, to help companies build their capacity of how to think more globally, innovatively.

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but also with an entrepreneurial aspect of risk taking. Government can play also a role, as I mentioned, I mean, in the procurement strategies, because if we help companies take the burden of the risk as well, become a partnership between the government and the industry by procuring from, you know, doing procurement from small and medium enterprises and micro organizations,

it will help them to think of how to take risk and be adaptable. At the moment, a lot of the companies have to try internationally to gain back market into Canada. And I think government procurement can help in that. Again, attracting foreign direct investment with the framework that they support the local domestic market as well can create more of a risk taking.

for the smaller companies to be able to. If a company is in electric vehicles and somebody is in the startup from developing battery technology, being able to deal with large entities that have global reach is important, but also slowly being able to innovate, take risks, and then ultimately once they have...

access and they've expanded in scale and scope, they have more of a capability to access international markets. Risk taking and the culture of risk is something to be nurtured. It can't happen instantaneously. It's something that we have to nurture going forward as an economy. It's true. And what comes to my mind hearing you speak, Namir, is perhaps we need to do a better job of educating around

how to calculate risks. Because for me personally, when I first entered my career and I thought about risk taking, it felt like I was going blind, I was jumping off a cliff and hoping for the best. But it's not like that at all, really. It's good to calculate your risks, understand the pros, the cons, the advantages, the potential things you need to address, and make informed choices from there. And for me personally,

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I was an entrepreneur for many years when I approached it from a calculated risk taking perspective, everything changed for me. And so perhaps even early on in our education system, we need to think about calculated risk taking. Yeah, absolutely. And another aspect of it is that many of our Canadian companies are strong risk takers have expanded not only nationally, but internationally. And we need to.

leverage their capabilities. I think there is a role to, you know, gain some of that knowledge of creating ambassadors from companies that know exactly how to manage risk and take on international competition and be able to provide that information to startups and entrepreneurs in Canada to nurture that capability and guide them so that they're not always

in a position to think, well, it's make or break. Ultimately, risk taking, as you mentioned, is about taking calculated risk with the best what the market is telling us based on our strengths and weaknesses, opportunities and threats. But ultimately, if it's guided by those that have gone through that road well traveled, it will be best managed going forward. I love that, an ambassador program, which is like a mentorship program. That's great.

Okay, last one. How to balance all of the priorities we've talked about today versus other priorities, especially for governments? Yeah, I mean, I think government is in a challenging environment. And not only from a Canadian perspective, worldwide perspective. As I mentioned, we are facing some global challenges from climate change, geopolitical inflictions and many other aspects.

And obviously having to decide where do I put public money ultimately and do public investment into this. And I think that is where we need broader discussions. When I talked about an industrial strategy, it's not only for Canada, for the government to make that, it's for all of us to be a part of it, for the industry, for associations, to be able to think the big things, read the big things for Canada and say,

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Well, where are the gaps that we need to address and what would be the right priorities? And you know, the government is in its consultation process for the federal budget that potentially will come up in April or May of this year is aiming to address that or hopefully will address some of these aspects going forward. But I think this is the focus for the next number of years is to say not only for this year and next year, but what ultimately can we do?

in five years to seven years. We have to think a longer term, giving all of the indications of the market analysis that we have to be able to position the country and prioritize the things that we need to do for the next number of years. And so it's really on all of us to raise our hand, provide feedback to that consultation process that you speak of so that...

we are help informing how the government makes these decisions and where they prioritize over the next number of years. Absolutely. So as we wrap this up, there's been so many good nuggets here. Namir, what would you say would be one piece of advice that you'd leave our listeners with in terms of how to help drive their businesses and ultimately the economy towards the future that we need in 2030 and beyond?

Yeah, clearly, I mean, without any hesitation, I think talent is the essence of any high performing business. In fact, the essence of any high performing economy. It's the one that we need to nurture in Canada going forward because it's the capability of the talent to create the new innovative products and services that we have to tackle many of the gaps that we talked about going forward and create an economy.

of the future that help attract businesses into Canada going forward. So I would encourage the industry to focus specifically on reskilling and upskilling the talent going forward. Focus on your talent is something that all of us can really embrace and take some action towards. So thank you, Namir. That was really insightful. Thank you, Stephanie. Very delighted to have participated in this exchange and discussion.

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And remember, if you're looking for a talented partner in ITAD and e -waste recycling, we'd love to chat. Head on over to quantumlifecycle .com and contact us. This is a Quantum Lifecycle podcast and the producer is Sanjay Trivedi. Thank you for being a circular future champion in your company and beyond logging off.