The Circular Future - A Quantum Lifecycle Partners podcast

41. The Future of Repairable Devices

• Quantum Lifecycle Partners • Season 1 • Episode 41

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Petri Hayrynen, Global Head of Product Marketing at HMD Global, joins us for an insightful conversation about sustainable smartphones. We delve into HMD's innovative approach to crafting devices that are not only durable but also easy to repair. Petri shares how HMD's design philosophy focuses on simplifying the repair process, making it accessible to everyone.

The episode highlights HMD's unique collaborations with brands like Barbie and Sony. These partnerships not only enhance brand identity but also reinforce HMD's commitment to sustainability. We explore how these collaborations help make sustainability in mobile devices more appealing to a wider audience.

We also discuss HMD's Better Phone Project, which aims to promote digital well-being, particularly among young people. By working with parents and experts, HMD is addressing the issue of digital overload and fostering healthier digital habits.

The conversation touches on the challenges of engaging the supply chain and the importance of strategic partnerships. HMD's collaborations with brands like FC Barcelona and Heineken demonstrate their dedication to making sustainability a core value in the mobile industry.

Key Takeaways

  • Human-Centered Design: HMD prioritizes understanding the needs and preferences of its target audience, "Emily," to create devices that are both functional and desirable.
  • Repairability as a Core Value: HMD is committed to making its devices easily repairable by designing them with modular components and providing clear instructions.
  • Digital Well-being: HMD recognizes the importance of digital health and is actively working on solutions to help users manage their screen time and reduce digital overload.
  • Strategic Partnerships: Collaborations with brands like Barbie, Sony, and FC Barcelona help HMD reach a wider audience and amplify its sustainability message.
  • Purpose-Driven Innovation: HMD's focus on sustainability and social responsibility drives innovation and helps the company stand out in a competitive market.

Join us as we explore how HMD is redefining the smartphone industry, creating devices that are both stylish and sustainable.


Thanks for listening!

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Want to be a guest on The Circular Future podcast? Email Sanjay Trivedi at strivedi@quantumlifecycle.com


Stephanie McLarty:

How do you make a smartphone that is sustainable, repairable and cool at the same time? Welcome to the Circular Future, your access to thought leaders and innovations to help you be a business sustainability champion, even if it's not your core job. I'm your host, Stephanie McLarty, Head of Sustainability at Quantum Lifecycle Partners. There are a lot of factors that go into smartphone design. Hmd, or Human Mobile Devices, is Europe's largest smartphone manufacturer that is winning awards for its fresh take on making phones durable, repairable and fun, and they've sold over 400 million phones along the way since 2016. With me to unpack how they do. It is Petri Harunen, Global Head of Product Marketing for HMD. Petri has been an integral part in shaping how HMD challenges the status quo in the ultra-competitive mobile tech market. He is a big advocate of designing for repairability and building more responsible product roadmaps, and has almost 20 years of experience in the industry with brands like Apple and Nokia. And because we're recording this live in front of an audience at the eSummit, let's get started so fun. Welcome to the podcast, Petri.

Petri Hayrynen:

Thank you, thank you.

Stephanie McLarty:

Have we done anything like this before?

Petri Hayrynen:

I have to say no, this is the first time.

Stephanie McLarty:

Well, awesome, I'm so thankful that you're here and that you're brave to do this in front of a live audience, and I know we're going to have a great conversation. We're going to talk about how you make great sustainable phones. We'll get into some big why questions on why you do things differently than others. We'll talk about a few how-to questions and then finish off with a piece of advice. But first let's start as we always do and let's get a peek into your world at HMD and you know, for some of us, we may not be so aware of HMD. What would be? Three things that we may not necessarily know about HMD?

Petri Hayrynen:

That's a good question. I think you stole a few of the things to say, like in the intro, so thanks for that. Maybe I'll start with one thing which, to me, is really, really cool. So Al Roker from USA, from the Today Show and NBC, has actually used one of our devices on I think it was like 8 in the morning so the HMD Barbie phone, which is one of our latest ones, so that's something that's a really fun fact.

Petri Hayrynen:

On the partnership side, I think it's worth to mention that we've actually been quite busy. We've been doing things with big brands like well, I mentioned Barbie already Obviously, nokia phones. We've been making those for a long time. There's also a phone that we did with Heineken called the Boring Phone, which is not as boring as it sounds. And then lately we just actually worked with Sony on the latest Venom film, so Venom Last Dance. We did some cool stuff for that, and that's then going to be on Friday in the movie theater. So go buy tickets, something that I should say. And the last thing is, we actually got a Time Best Invention Award for 2023 for our first repairable device, which is really, really cool as well.

Stephanie McLarty:

Yeah, that is amazing and we'll talk about that. First, I wanted to ask you about something that's on your website. I love the language that you use. It hits home for me, it's very direct, and one of the things you say is you can't spell sustainability without the letter R, which maybe isn't so direct, so please explain what that actually means.

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah, it's been a lot of fun in copywriting Brian, our copywriter. He's probably working in his dream job right now because of the way that we've sort of set up our brand. It's quite a humorous way of talking about serious stuff. So, obviously, three R's, I mean it's the repair, reuse and recycle, but that's one of the parts of sustainability and of course it goes way beyond that as well. But that's just a little wordplay that we have on the site.

Stephanie McLarty:

So very similar to quantum. We follow that as well, and it's all part of the waste hierarchy when you really think about it. Okay, so you just mentioned about your time best inventions list acknowledgement for 2023. You've also received from iFixit a 9 out of 10 score, which is incredible in perspective. How do you start making a phone that is, you know, repairable? How do you approach making human mobile device?

Petri Hayrynen:

That's a good question. Yes, we have two phones now with our latest repairability, which we call Gen 2 repairability, where I mean you were taking one apart yesterday it's very possible to do even if you've never done it before. So we have two phones that have that. They both got the nine out of 10 score. One of them was this denim phone as well.

Petri Hayrynen:

So I mean human mobile devices. It's essentially everything links back to some human needs and, and when we kind of go on designing devices like this, we need to make them so that people actually want to use them as well. And that then has some limitations when it comes to the design. But we ask a lot of questions from the customers, from our target audience, what they want to be doing, and every now and then they maybe don't know exactly what they want on a device. Like if you ask a person, do you want to repair a broken screen on your phone? Most likely the answer is like I would, but I probably don't know how to.

Petri Hayrynen:

So then it's about trying to kind of build it in the right way that they are able to do it, and it comes with a lot of research, like trying to figure out what the best ways of getting into that are. But our approach is very much about sort of looking at the basic way of putting phones together and then sort of starting to strip that down a little bit to the bare bones and thinking of the way that we should be doing things. And then we go, obviously, and work with the, the odm side our manufacturers, our engineers, work with them a lot to build new types of solutions or new ways of approaching existing solutions, and then ending up with the device that still has the appeal that people actually want to buy it, rather than it being something that's boxy and looks just like another repairable phone because they have been there before those things as well.

Stephanie McLarty:

Yeah, I can imagine that if repairability is top of the list for what you design for, it would look very different than if you're designing first and foremost for something that people want to use and, you know, to fit in their pocket and lightweight and all of that. So balancing what people think they want versus what they actually want, it could be an important distinction. Who is your target market really? What do they look like?

Petri Hayrynen:

So we actually have a target person that we think about every time, who we design devices. We call her Emily. I think there was even an Emily in the room here it wasn't you, maybe it is now but we look at much of like a younger audience. So we do think about Gen Zers these days and people who use their devices a lot and they sort of live by the devices. But also we try to build phones that are just good for people.

Petri Hayrynen:

So we look at what emily needs in terms of the device.

Petri Hayrynen:

So of course, there needs to be all of the basic things like great cameras and good displays and you be, you need to be able to use it as a daily driver. But at the same time like trying to balance that out with the sustainability bits, like the repairability you know, using because of materials, making sure that the devices last longer, that they're durable enough, but also then looking at different things like how do you balance your digital life and make sure that you're not using your phone too much, because that's something that people also recognize is an issue these days, especially when you go into that like Gen Z space. So it's a lot of things really, but we do have like a very certain type of a customer profile that we work towards, and I think that's also if you've seen any of the marketing assets. Any ways that we talk about it, it's sort of directed directly to those type of people, and then we sort of noticed that that also then plays pretty well for the rest of the people who are excited about these types of solutions.

Stephanie McLarty:

Well, I'm probably a target market because all that language really spoke to me. Now, yesterday, as you mentioned, I participated in the repair off in which there were 12 of us that had to deconstruct and remove the screen and the battery from the skyline. Is that correct, the right model?

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah.

Stephanie McLarty:

Yeah, and for me I had never repaired anything electronic. This was the first time. I didn't realize it was going to be even a new box, and so I just thought, well, I mean, we'll follow the instructions through, I fix it. And I have to admit I did pretty good. I mean, I didn't win the competition at all, but I was actually proud in how much I could actually do on my own and it really surprised me. So how have you made your phones repairable in a way that others haven't? How have you scored a nine out of 10 for my fix it?

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah, so I mean a couple of things. I mean thank you for taking a part yesterday. I think it was really good and I'm happy because everybody else was very much a professional who was there. I think that also showed off a few bits of you know insights as well. Like you were probably there when we were looking.

Petri Hayrynen:

It was looking at the full-on iFixit guide on how to take it apart and there weren't too many things that you were sort of doing extra on the device. There weren't too many things that you were sort of doing extra on the device. I saw there were people maybe going a little bit too rough on the opening mechanism of it, because there's a really cool cam on like popping the back cover off. We're in a sustainability summit here and it probably was a little bit counterintuitive to have like fresh phones that are unpacked and then teared down. But yeah, maybe in retrospect we we need to get something, as we wanted to have like a level playing field that they haven't been touched before we would have otherwise. We were looking at device that had been opened already, but then it's not the same thing anymore. So yeah, back to the question. We sort of try to make it as foolproof as possible, and that's when you read the instructions. So if you actually look at the way off of how do you open the device and which screws do you need to remove in order to get into the display, then you are able to do that quite easily those by yourself.

Petri Hayrynen:

So what we want to go after is for people, when they break their own screen, they don't have to live to learn to live with that broken screen. They actually take it in their own hands and fix it. It costs about 100 bucks to order that screen, for example, which isn't that steep. So then you go and look at the instructions. You get all the tools and the parts able to put it together, like take it apart, swap the display, put it back together.

Petri Hayrynen:

You get that sensation of just you know, gratuity for being able to do something on your own that fixes your phone and sort of like, makes you one of the I think it was like 33% of people who just don't learn to live with that broken screen, according to our studies. So I think the key part is really to make it foolproof and make it something that anybody can do, rather than trying to sort of make it something that requires huge tools or some specialty things. So here I mean, ours to go to was that you need the opening pick and you need a screwdriver, and that should be enough to do the process. And of course, then it's like looking at how everything is in place. It's a bit more modular than maybe regular devices are, but still the main challenge is obviously keeping it slim and something that people want to put in their pocket, because all of these things are always trade-offs.

Stephanie McLarty:

Yeah, they're always trade-offs. You're essentially designing for Emily, not like my husband or mobile device team at Quantum. You're designing for the end user that may not have a lot of experience repairing phones.

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah, exactly, and we did a lot of studies on this. I'm sure people love me because I pick on people who've never done this before. Usually, if I'm in an event somewhere, I pick somebody who's sort of like fitting the bill, making sure that I ask them, like have you ever repaired the phone? Give them a screwdriver and a guitar pick and the phone and like here's instructions. Or then I guide them directly and telling them what to do and look at them when they're sort of like afraid of taking the product, putting it back together and sort of seeing them being able to do that. So, yeah, it's quite a big, big sort of a feat that we're able to do this.

Stephanie McLarty:

HMD has really done things in a different way than other companies. One of the things that really struck me you have a Better Phone Project, which is the first phone that was co-created by parents to protect mental well-being for young people. Why would you do that?

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah, so it hasn't been created yet. We've had two sessions. We're working with parental advocacy groups, end users, so we've actually had people who are I think the youngest ones have been like 13 participating in these live webinars that we do. I think we have two more left. We have professionals from universities, from different types of medical institutions and those sort of things, psychologists who just they're the smartest people in the world on what are the impacts of digital overload and especially on developing people.

Petri Hayrynen:

So when talking about kids and it's all based on the fact that you know the solutions that are out there right now they aren't really suitable for giving your kid a phone, for example. It doesn't have everything included, so it's either too limited and that. What then makes it so the parents are actually like half of the people who've actually given devices out to their kids regret or I think it was even more than that. It was like three out of four parents who've given their kid a smartphone actually regret that. 50% of people. They see that their personality, if their children, are actually changing when they're using their device, so they get hooked on it very quickly.

Petri Hayrynen:

Smartphones are kind of like drugs for a lot of people. When you go into social media. You know that's where where all of the the overload happens. It all comes from this real need to have a solution. That is the better phone and today, like parents have actually, they needed to sort of create their own solutions because there isn't anything that is good enough. And of course, there are different types of needs for different types of people and depending on the ages of the people, it's not only kids, it's also other people who recognize the fact that they need to cut down on screen time or cut down on social media usage and they need some tools. So Better Phone Project is very much about just building a phone that sort of allows you to balance the digital life and gives you those right tools there.

Stephanie McLarty:

Wow, I've read that you're actually encouraging people to use their phone less, like even adults, for all of us to use their phone less. How do you do that?

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah. So of course I mean we are sort of part of the problem because we built the phones that you get hooked on. But we also recognize there's tons of good in smartphones, like you can't really live without them these days. Everything happens there. You're banking, you're, you know payments, you're travel. There's so many things that are connected to it. It's, it's essentially the one tool that you can't live without. That's where repairably comes in as well, because you don't want to be without it. But at the same time, you know we do recognize the fact that people these days got cutting back on it. So it's about we especially like again, look at the emily there, the 16 to 24 year old audience who who been sort of growing up with smartphones from the, the get-go, so they've actually been immersed into that. I remember when I joined facebook at some point, it was like I had to get an invitation, or gmail, I had to get an invitation to it. Now you grow up with it. It's the first thing that you get when you have that device. So so they've grown up with and they've sort of realized that it's just it's kind of running their lives and dictating way too much what they're doing. So it's about like eight out of 10 people, according to our studies, have been looking at different ways of cutting back on screen time, and about 40% they're actually they're recognizing the fact that they're spending too much time on social media. We've already started creating tools for it. Of course we've had our feature phones, which are quite big, so the Nokia 3210s and the Barbie phone. Now it been super popular, sold out pretty much everywhere.

Petri Hayrynen:

People look at those devices as sort of shifting over from their their smartphone for the weekend. They just take something that's like a dumb phone and you don't want to. You know you don't have to be immersed into anything. They can actually make phone calls, which is something that younger kids don't don't do these days anymore. Nobody has their their ringtones on anymore. But then it's also about the way that you use your smartphone. So we build on the Skyline. We have a detox mode which you flick a switch and it actually switches off all of your social media or the apps that you want. It can also be used for work and those sort of things, so you can then decide how long you want to do these like burst detox, burst detox. So we're looking at different solutions of like. How do you allow people to gain control over their digital balance in terms of using their devices?

Stephanie McLarty:

That's cool. I love the idea of detox mode and actually having that as a feature. Okay, let's move into our how to section, where I ask you how to questions and you know the original intention was for this to be rapid fire in the podcast, but it was never rapid fire, so you can answer them as short or as long as you like. Okay, first one as you've created these great, sustainable, repairable phones, how to structure your teams to do so? I mean, who is on your team inside your organization and who leads it?

Petri Hayrynen:

So that is a really quick question and I think that's something that maybe changes per project quite a lot. So we do build in tons of customer insights into it. So marketing is always going to be a big part of it, and we sort of start looking at the needs of the target customer, start then building devices according to those needs, but it depends on a phone. Of course there's some things that just need to exist according to those needs, but it depends on a phone. Of course there's some things that just need to exist.

Petri Hayrynen:

I think the overall it's not so much about who's in the team, it's about everybody's committed to the end goal and understands what the value is that we need to hit with that device and what sort of the key message is on that phone.

Petri Hayrynen:

And that way everybody can pull on the same rope and it doesn't become like a question of okay, this now hits a certain step in the leadership and it's like it gets killed because they're not sort of singing the same tune as everyone else is. So I think like we have a very flat organization and there are tons of people who are involved in it and, as with the better phone you know, it even comes from the source. It actually comes from the users. We are building a phone together with you know people, which is something that nobody's ever done before in this industry, so you always sort of dictate what a user should be doing with their device. I know that's not a rapid fire answer, but it's. It's all about the fact that you're aligned and it doesn't really matter who's part of it at that point. But but of course, like you need to tick the boxes so that you can make things happen.

Stephanie McLarty:

Yeah, and so, speaking of alignment, next question how to engage your supply chain. So you're working in alignment, because I know you've talked about before the importance of your supply chain being a part of the whole repairability solution. Yeah, yeah.

Petri Hayrynen:

So I think, like supply chain, it's especially when we look at the manufacturing side of things and the phone business hasn't been exactly even though we look at, we talk about. I think that's also why you start looking at the whole industry and all the devices that are out there. It's more of this like gray mass, as I like to call it, and we sort of see ourselves as a bit of a disruptor in that. So we want to do things a bit differently.

Petri Hayrynen:

I think that the biggest part for us is helping the supply chain. So of course, you need to make sure from the sustainability side that everybody's playing ball. But on top of that, you sort of have to give them the right tools, because they worry about quality. They worry about, like, making sure that they can deliver on the promise of we're going to make you a device and all the components are going to fit into it. So sometimes and this is what happens pretty much every time is that when we go and tell our supply chain we want to do this, this is our idea, they're like, no, that can't be done. That means that we have to guide them into doing it. So it's a lot of like taking the engineering into your own hands and sort of helping them navigate. And obviously by doing that, because the the industry is so sort of interconnected, I think we're also helping other manufacturers then and the whole industry sort of moving forward. So yeah, it's again a long answer to a rapid fire question, but hopefully that covers it.

Stephanie McLarty:

Hey, don't worry about the rapid fire anymore. But last question, you've spoken about some of the partnerships you have. Fc Barcelona was one we haven't touched on, but Sony Entertainment, the Venom movies, mattel, heineken, and this conference is really all about fostering cooperation to move our goals forward, to advance electronic sustainability. So how to get the most out of your partnerships?

Petri Hayrynen:

of your partnerships. Yeah, I think you know if we were to just and I'm glad you mentioned FC Barcelona, I'm pretty much killing myself because I forgot it. It's probably the biggest one of the all and, like how we've approached the whole thing is about making sure that we well, whatever we do in terms of partnerships, we really bring the heart out of it. So we did the Barbie phone with Mattel and it was it's like full on Barbie. It's for Barbie fans. We were thinking about, like what does a Barbie's phone look like? What does need to be included in the pack? So it's like a full on unboxing experience and really bringing it to life like from the get go. When you actually get the box into using the device, there's like a missed call from Ken and you know there are all these different types of charms inside the box. It's just like if you've never seen it, like go and go and check online. It's just great, great, great stuff. And it doesn't matter like if you're a female or a male or whatever you know, or what age you are. You're going to be excited about the phone at some level. And the Barcelona one is also. Like you know, we are looking at right now the best way of engaging the whole community, like the fans and the players, and like really building something that has the essence of FC Barcelona at the heart, because it is such a big organization and so, like you know, rooted to Catalonia, and like it's one of the biggest sports teams in the world, so there's a huge following to it.

Petri Hayrynen:

So I think that's a long sort of segue into what I was trying to say is that if we just go into building repairable devices and we would just go by the fact that, hey, this is a phone that you can drop the screen on, it's never going to create any type of a connection, so it's not going to make a dent in the industry. So that's why the partnerships are super important for us is building the brand, building the human mobile devices, actually making it sort of, in a non sort of annoying way, relatable to a lot of people, and that way we can then push the message. So the message of repairability, sustainability, you know, trying to create things that we're trying to do in this industry. We have to find a softer way of doing that, because if you go in and say that, hey, this is what you need to be doing because the world is on fire, it's probably not going to be the best way of doing it.

Petri Hayrynen:

People realize that, like, especially if you go to the younger audience, it's about sort of showing them what we're doing stuff and making it into like speaking the right language, making it into relatable thing for them. And that's where the whole kind of partner chain you got to partner up with people who are the right type, who have the same type of of an agenda. So that's we're super careful about, like the partners that we work with and everybody needs to have the same heart. So I think that's that's probably the key like choose your partners right and make sure that, uh, they're everybody's delivering on their strengths and trying to make it more relatable.

Stephanie McLarty:

Yeah, and on that point of relatability, I feel like for us to truly achieve electronic sustainability, we need to get better at communicating, communicating it, communicating the advantages, and so that is so. On point, I get it, but then again, maybe I'm I'm an Emily and you're reaching the Emily's in this.

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah, so I mean, well, as an example for repairability, we actually created an ASMR video on repair and that's on YouTube. I think it's even here. There's just the clicking noises and everything that you have when you're, you know, taking the phone apart. I was actually doing that, so I'm kind of like a famous in that that says but then we also looked at, you know, we did training videos that we're actually giving out to the public, which are normally internal, so we just make sure the sort of production value is high enough on that.

Petri Hayrynen:

It is very much about the communication and speaking the right language and not being, you know, obnoxious, about we're doing the right thing in the world and like trying to just shine because of something and, of course, like I think the one thing is, um, we're not supposed to swear anything, so I'm not going to do that.

Petri Hayrynen:

But you know, you have to have the people that we speak to these days, especially if you go into the younger audience. They've got the best bs radar in the world. So you have to have the people that we speak to these days, especially if you go into the younger audience. They've got the best BS radar in the world, so you have to have your house in order, you've got to make sure that you're sort of delivering on all of the bits and pieces. When you look at your supply chain, you know you look at the way that you handle your business and remember the fact that you're always somebody scope three at the same time, like even if you talk to the partners where you're trying to sell to. So just it like comes from many different pieces, that it becomes a sincere thing and that it's not something that's seen just as marketing but it's actually delivering the message in the right way.

Stephanie McLarty:

That makes so much sense as we close out this conversation. I know we've talked about so much and there's so many nuggets in there. What would be one piece of advice that you would leave our audience and listeners with in this whole area of building repairable phone and really even bigger than that?

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah. So I think the key part about everything is you've got to have a purpose. Like purpose driven companies these days they do the best work. I feel and I know in our industry there are lots of them, at least to some extent. But the purpose helps in so many things because there's always cost involved. You know, it was so much easier to justify investment, so much easier to justify risk taking when you have that part.

Petri Hayrynen:

But then it's also like it plays into some things which aren't free, like changing the the whole kind of structure of your company. For hmd, for example, we're like three times in a row like triple well, platinum, echo, that is score, which is means that we are like actually leading the industry when it comes to the sustainability as a company. But then that means that because of all of the values that we have inside the company, we can actually start talking about the things and making the decisions that then link to that. And the last part is, once you have that value, you're making those decisions. Remember that you're still a business.

Petri Hayrynen:

If you are a business, it's not a charity. It is like you do have to make sure that you stay in business and you generate enough profit to do that, because the only way off, if you want to change the world, you've got to be in business and you've got to make sure that you can innovate. If you don't generate value, that means that you're going to die or then you're not able to innovate. So those two things I know. Here it's. You know we are among the people who want to change the world and many times we sort of forget the fact that you know we are businesses and we need to make sure that the only way to stay alive and do things is to generate more money.

Stephanie McLarty:

That reminds me Quantum has three core stakeholders planet team and customers and that really helps to keep the important issues really our purpose front and center. One other thing I really got from this conversation was the importance of keeping your target customer front and center and designing for them, but also reaching them in innovative ways through partnerships, and I think that's a lesson that we all can really take from it.

Petri Hayrynen:

Yeah, and it's also driven by the value. So if customer is part of the value that you have in the company and you're building stuff for them, then it's going to be sort of easy to make decisions on that as well.

Stephanie McLarty:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here and sharing this wisdom, and I'm sure everyone got their own nugget from this conversation, but I really appreciate it.

Petri Hayrynen:

Thank you so much. Glad to be here.

Stephanie McLarty:

And remember, if you're looking for a Canadian partner to help you repair, reuse and recycle your electronics, even smartphones, we'd love to chat. Head on over to quantumlifecyclecom and contact us. This is a Quantum Lifecycle podcast and the producer is Sandra Turetti. Thank you for being a circular picture champion in your company and logging off.

People on this episode

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Stephanie McLarty

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Sanjay Trivedi

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