SPEAKER_04

Welcome to the Stay or Go podcast, where we're changing the dialogue around divorce so that no woman ever stays in her marriage out of fear. Get ready to dispel myths, learn life-changing tools, and build a solid foundation in yourself from which to make your decision. And now your host, me, Britta Joe. Welcome back to the podcast this week. Okay, loves. If you thought last week's episode was wonderful, which I heard from a lot of you, how fun it was getting to hear from Joe for the first time. I also loved that was just like a spontaneous thing for him and me. If you loved that episode, I am very excited to bring you this week's episode because this last month I had someone that I have deeply, deeply loved, a woman in my community who just recently went through her divorce. We got to talking kind of behind the scenes in the chat over in the community. Actually, not even in the chat, in the DM. It was just her and me. And it came out. I ended up asking her if she'd be interested in also being on the podcast. And I was so delighted to hear that she was up for it. So I'm going to get to bring you guys her today. We're going to be having a discussion going back over really her process. And something that I am so excited about, really the reason why I was just like, ah, really delighted that she wanted to do this is because her journey was unlike one I'd ever seen before. There's a really interesting moment in her process that was very thrilling for all of us that were in the community with her, that got to watch her go through it, that really showed me what's possible when husbands don't lose their shit during the divorce. So, with no further ado and introducing her by her pseudonym that she picked because adorably that's what her mother wanted to name her. Welcome to the podcast, Jaguar.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Britta. I'm so, so excited to be on. Nervous, but I'm excited. It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_04

That's my favorite feeling with podcasting for the first time. It's this wonderful like thrill, but it's super yummy. So I've got you. We're gonna have a lovely, lovely time. And I have to say, I think this might be my all-time favorite pseudonym so far.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04

It's so it's so synchronistic too, because just yesterday in the community, we did like a hangout call, and one of the women we were playing Two Truths and a Lie, and she her lie was that she had pet a Jaguar. And we all thought it was true. I know. I was like, so you saying like my pseudonym is Jaguar. I was like, okay, is this like a spirit animal?

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

Trying to come through right now. I don't know, but I love it. Okay. So as we talked in our brainstorming session, it's always so lovely to be able to kind of go back to the beginning of your story. Um, one of the things that is just like, I think the greatest gift getting to interview women that I've met who have gone through this process is, as you know, from back before you went through this process, you don't get to hear about other women's journeys with this, right? I mean, had you heard of any, did you know anybody that had gone through divorce or had talked to you about it so openly?

SPEAKER_00

No, I've definitely gone or been in contact with women who've gone through divorce, but it's usually like a silent thing. It's not something that is expressed. Um, so I really didn't know like the process, the lawyer, all of it. Like I had no clue. I just knew that that person got divorced, but I had I was completely ignorant and blind to the whole process and how to how to do it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And that's why I'm so excited, as you've seen from other women sharing their stories on the podcast. When you get to be taken behind the scenes into a woman's journey, it broadens your perspective. It it helps you go, okay, this is this is what other people have been through. This is what I'm going through. So to anchor us kind of and start us into that story, I would love for you to take us back to the beginning and share with us why you wanted to marry your husband initially.

SPEAKER_00

Uh during our 90-minute, that kind of helps me kind of talk through everything. And I realized that I kind of grew up. I wasn't really raised. So as I was growing up, I had these boxes that I had to check. Like, you know, you graduate high school, go to uh college, check that off. Um, you get a job, you check that off. So I was just checking boxes, and the next step was to find a partner before you're 30, get married, have a kid, have a house. Like, so I was just going through life, kind of checking, checking the boxes. Um, and my ex-husband was uh or is a great guy. Um, he seemed to be the man that would be a provider and take care of me. Um, that was kind of all I was thinking about was a man provides, um, he can do that, and he will make it so I can check my box of buying a home, having children. Um, so he he filled that for me. So that was like probably like the biggest piece of it was just having a person to check that box and not really thinking about all the other things that come along with, you know, falling in love with someone.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I I am obsessed with you describing it in this way of life just being this like check, check, check, check.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I'm curious, will you take us a little deeper into that? Of like, you know, and you said I didn't really get the chance to you, I think you said like grow. I didn't really, I just had to grow up, kind of. Right. So in that box checking, is did you find there was like an emotional disconnect for you? It almost seems like, like maybe not understanding the depth of yourself emotionally.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, for sure for sure. Like I just I feel like I didn't I thought because of my age, I was ready to date, but I really wasn't emotionally ready to date and really, you know, put myself out there. I had no idea who Jaguar was. Um I just knew that this is the age that you start doing things. Um, so there was really kind of like the emotional part kind of took a backseat. It was really just like was like the Maslow hierarchy of needs. Like I just made sure I got those couple of needs filled, and then everything else was kind of put to the side. Um and being the youngest of the three of three children, and by 10 years, my sister's 10 years older. Um, I really kind of like was that kid that soaked in everybody else's emotions. Like I could read the room and sense when people are upset with each other. And I sort of like carry my emotions internally and never express them. I was just that sponge taking it all in and kind of being whoever who everyone needed at the time. I can tell, you know, mom said, let me make her happy. You know, I can tell somebody needs a hug, let me go get them a hug. It was never really about Jaguars' needs.

SPEAKER_04

So such a beautiful way to describe how you from a young age were not experiencing the world necessarily from your own feelings, as much as when you're a sponge, you're just everybody else. And so you do. You go through the world as almost like my role is to take care of everybody else or make sure everybody else is okay.

SPEAKER_00

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_04

And a way to a way to do that when you get older is to be the good daughter that just kind of hits all of the benchmarks, right? Right. Everybody else is proud of you. You have the external life that looks really good. When was the moment where you started to go, oh, wait a second? Like you're checking, checking, checking all the boxes. Tell me when the moment was where you're like, oh, is was it was it noticing there was like an emotional missing? What what started to key you in to like, oh, checking all the boxes isn't working like I thought it was gonna?

SPEAKER_00

I'd probably say during COVID because me and my husband were forced to be in our house together the entire time with our newborn um son. Um, and I was just like, I really don't like you. Like I was able to center myself during COVID because I had a lot of time at home. Um and with school, like I'm like, I need to go back to school. I need to, I need to make sure I finish my degree and because I'm feeling like I'm not sure about this person, and I'm gonna be a single mom. I need to make sure that I can take care of us. And then also realizing with my ex-husband was just like we have been taking care of each other, like from like a financial standpoint, like we've had a nice place, things like that, our cars, but there's no emotional piece to it, like there's no genuine, like I I love you, I'm gonna pour into you. Like there's everything was very surface. I feel like, yeah, definitely for like COVID and just being around him 24-7, just kind of brought everything to light that I was kind of putting, like laying dormant. Um, so that was really that 2020, 2021 were really eye-opening for me.

SPEAKER_04

I remember going through, so COVID hit right after I got divorced. And I remember thinking, oh my god, thank goodness that happened when it did. Because yeah, just being in such tight quarters, nothing exposes those cracks or those, like, oh, we really don't have much in common or much that we can share beyond our functions in the relationship.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. Okay. So COVID is where you're kind of like, ooh. And I I have to say, such a boss move that you picked up on that. We're like, I'm feeling like the ground of financial certainty in my marriage is shifting. As far as like, this may not be the route that I want to get financial security. So I'm gonna lean into going to school.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That was a boss move. I see you.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't realize it at the time, but I'm like, I'm so grateful that like whatever clicked, clicked. Like, because now I'm in a position where I I'm comfortable, even though he's not in my life. Like, I'm secure. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I just have to say for all the women listening that are like in that part of the journey, like, yes, trust yourself. Go start getting the education in increasing your career, career skills to be able to do that. Because sometimes, yeah, I mean, that was six years ago. You know, five, six years ago. It's important understanding that that's really where the journey starts for a lot of us as women. It's not like yesterday and then you go. Right. There tends to have to be some prep work, some reorganizing. Like you said, you know, you picked him because it was like, oh, he's gonna provide financially. Well, if that's gonna change, I'm gonna have to shuffle some of these things around to still have those needs met.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So take me to, okay, so you're going through COVID and you're like, whoa, wait a second. This is the person I'm gonna have to like actually spend time with. Maybe I do actually like wanna like kind of you know have a friendship or something here.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_04

What happens from there? Take us to the next step.

SPEAKER_00

Uh well, we bought a house. I made the best financial decision now. So we bought we bought a house. Um, and then uh he went on a business trip, and I I had started getting like panic attacks, but I didn't know what they were. Um and I just knew I didn't feel right. I didn't feel well. Um, I was also getting a lot of um like GI like belly, like just hurting. And I couldn't figure out what it was, and then I started going to therapy, and they were like, no, you're having panic attacks, and kind of talked to through that and things that I can do. Wow. And I started realizing that it was because I didn't want to be in this relationship. Um, so he and I started going to therapy. Uh I want to say around like 2021, 2022, right after we bought our house. Um, and it just wasn't. I think the more we went to therapy, the more I realized that he's just not my person, and that's okay. Like at first, when you go to therapy, you're like, okay, how are we gonna fix this? Like, how do we fall back in love with each other? And it, but for me, it was the opposite. I was just realizing that we were just like better off separated, a lot, like you know, divorced. Um, but then I got pregnant in 2022.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, I gotta stop you. Because there's like so many little requests.

SPEAKER_04

I know. And that was one of the things I wanted to say first off that I loved was, you know, here you're like, yeah, I'm noticing during COVID, like, this is probably not my person. And what do we go and do? We buy a house. I love you sharing that because that is so real for what I see pretty much across the board that yeah, I mean, this is a huge shift, even just like psychologically thinking of not being married, that when those first rumblings start, it's it I see it is very like human nature that we kind of are like, yeah, hopefully that'll go away. And like, you know, it's the let's go on a vacation together, let's, you know, let's buy a house together. And as you're gonna talk about, like getting pregnant, you know, these other pieces come in and happen. So I just love and wanted to emphasize that actually so many, I think so many women will relate to this. Mine was like right before I filed for divorce, we were getting ready to do a kitchen reno. Like, you know, we're like, that's just anything but this. Anything but this, because this is gonna mean a massive foundational overhaul of the system. Maybe we can just change something else within it. Yeah. Um so you mentioned you buy a house, he goes on a business trip. The body piece, that's what I wanted you to speak to a little bit more. Because oh, do I hear so many women, especially lately? In fact, I'm wanting to do an episode that's all about like your body is the thing that's screaming and you need to be listening. Because more and more I have women coming in, they're like, there is just something going on with my body. My body is upset. I and I think it's related to my relationship. How did you put those two together though? Because that's the piece that I feel like so many women were like, it must be something else. What tapped you into, like, and I think it's because I'm married to this person that's not a fit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It would always uh be sort of like the panic attacks would kind of be like at the end of the day at work when I knew I was about to go home. Um, and so kind of like I'm feeling this because I'm about to be at home with this person for the next, you know, eight hours until we go to bed. Um, and so I kind of started putting like the pieces together.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then um I would also, so in the morning, I would leave work and have what's like stomach pain. Um, and I don't know if that was due to just like like I the overnight the weight of the night before, like trying to play house. And so you you've kind of fake who you are to just survive the the night. And I don't know if that was just carrying, like building up, and then in the morning time I would have like the belly, the belly aches and just uncomfortable. Um, so it was just like it was just a lot on my body. And I remember actually my doctor telling me, it's like, you are really in tune with your body, you could probably tell me everything that's going on. I was like, I really am. Like I can feel when something's off, and I just kept feeling off and just not knowing what it was, and then kind of like taking time in my office and really thinking about like why am I feeling like this? And it always came back to my marriage, you know, not being a mom to a full-time working mom and a student and having a one-year-old at home. It was always my my marriage.

SPEAKER_04

Oh I love you making that distinction of because talk about stuff that could have distracted you into thinking this is it, right? Oh my god. Right. You know, full-time working, going to school, have a one-year-old. For sure, you could have been like, oh, it must be this, it must be the baby, it must be because I've started going back to school. But you went into your body and so brilliant paying attention to like when am I having these moments? It reminded me of how mine was when I'd hear the garage door opening in the evenings. You know, that was kind of a like, uh, and and looking back, it was just so much a part of my life that I didn't really realize until you start slowing down and examining and going, when is my body reacting this way? Is it related to something specifically? And you noticing, yep, it's whenever I'm about to go home. Yeah, really powerful. I also have to say, you mentioning having to play house. Oh, nobody's ever said it like that before. But that just rang so true for me. Of you know, when you say playing house, it almost feels like stepping onto a stage. Like every evening you're having to come home and pretend and do this dance that yeah, is is a performance that your body is having to carry. I'd never thought of it that way before, but I was like, oh, Jaguar, just dropping all of the beautiful truth bombs. So, so good. Okay, so you're starting to notice my body's being impacted. It is related to my marriage. You've even gone to therapy. If you would, I'd love for you to speak a little bit too. So you're in therapy. How's how's he handling the therapy at this time, right? Like you're getting more and more in tune with like okay, I don't really think this is my person. I married him for kind of checking the box, but my body now, and I love that it's it's not even like you going, Oh, I don't want this box checked, or I want something more. No, your body was the piece that was like, this is not working.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

So in therapy, when you guys go together, how is he tracking along with any of this?

SPEAKER_00

He's such a man. No. Um, no. So we're polar, we're polar opposites. Like, I would be telling him genuinely how I feel. And I'm thinking that what I'm saying makes sense as far as like anybody listening would would understand that she clearly is on her way out. But in his mind, that male mind, they're like, oh, that's a challenge. Like, she doesn't want to go. I just have to fight harder and do more, and that'll somehow flip a switch in her brain. So we were on like opposite ends of it. He's fighting to keep me this day, and I'm trying to be a mastermind and trying to figure out what's my next move out. Like, how do I tell him, you know, that it's just done. Um, so yeah, it was opposite.

SPEAKER_04

How can I communicate this in a way that he'll hear?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

That is one of the hardest things that I see for so many women. Yes, is is when you have partners that don't actually hear what you're saying and like, yeah, she's telling you the truth, dude. She this listen to what she's saying. Trust that she actually knows her own mind. And instead, like you said, it's just okay, problem, and I'm gonna fix it. And if I do enough of this, or I just grind hard enough, or I just this problem will then go away. And that is not the solution for this.

SPEAKER_00

No, I think I put it into the community too a few months back. He like started following some guy who tells men, just keep doing this and she'll come back to you. I can't remember the name of it, but I'm never putting it in you and Quinn replying. Um, it was just so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we need way more the dialogue around men helping men in stay in their marriages or get their wives back. Like, mmm. No, no, no, no, no. That is not the answer.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04

So therapy is not working, and you what so take me into a little bit of that. Like, that must have been tough. You're realizing, okay, I I this is a no, and your partner is not tracking with you. Where does your mind go in that moment?

SPEAKER_00

I started getting quiet in therapy because I felt like nothing I was saying was landing. So he did most of the like towards like the last couple of months, he did most of the talking. Um, and I just kind of like, you know, responded when when necessary. But I just got quiet and just started realizing, like, trying to plan like what's what am I gonna do? Like this is he's not hearing me. And she wasn't uh the best therapist as far as like really communicating for me when she could tell that he wasn't understanding what I was saying. And so I that's another reason why I kind of just like went internal and just kind of like got quiet. And then that's when I found you. Like I just started trying to do work on myself because I wasn't it I was getting nowhere. So I just was just like, all right, now it's time to I invested in us. We have the therapy together, and now it's just time to invest in me.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, beautiful. And I think you mentioned at this point, is this about the time you get pregnant?

SPEAKER_02

Or was that prior?

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

I know, and I'm so glad you're gonna share that here because this experience, oh, my heart. This moment when you are like, okay, this is not really my person, or and then you get pregnant. I have met so many women. I've met women who this is how the marriage started, right? It's that moment of, oh my goodness, I am pregnant, and this is not actually the person that I want to have a baby with, have a life with. What do we do from here? So what was what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00

It was tough because part of a lot of our pro, well, not a lot, some of our problem um the couple as a marriage in the marriage was that uh my ex-husband drank excessively. Nor not at home, but like we were at the age when we met, we were constantly at weddings. So we were like 26, 27 when we met. So we were always at open bar weddings, and he was just and he was in a fraternity in college, so very like bro, like football. So they're all, as you can all imagine, like you know, that type. Um, so the alcohol was a problem, and we were at one of his high school football buddies' uh weddings, and who's a state trooper, all of his friends are state troopers, and my ex-husband got drunk and was making rude comments to their wives, like totally embarrassing me. I had to like help him off the shuttle back to the hotel. He was falling in people's cars. It was just it was terrible. But one thing that he always did when he got drunk like that was the next morning in the hotel, he would just like we'd have we'd be intimate, we'd have sex. And it was never anything that I wanted, but I was just like, whatever, this is his way of apologizing. Just let him. Um, and that's how I got pregnant with my daughter, was at his friend's wedding. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I s I just want to like soften into you sharing this moment because this is a very vulnerable, um, intimate part of what so many of us hide behind the scenes in our marriages, right? And yet it is so common. Um, as you know, it when we were in the community, we did a conversation around sexual coercion and just like ah, it is so hard, um, especially with that disconnect for men, of sex just being like almost like a band-aid or a way to like fix it for them. Okay, now it's better. See, we're good, we had sex, and not understanding how um deeply emotionally shattering it is to be used in that way as a partner. And um, uh for so many men, you know, the way you're describing your husband, I'm like, yeah, definitely a a, in my opinion, like a sad case of what the patriarchy creates when it disconnects men entirely from their feelings, tells them that all they gotta do is provide. And if they provide, they'll be given a wife and sex and a family, and it'll be great.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And and they they make huge mistakes of not being attuned to situations, of not caring for the delicate ecosystem that is a marriage, yeah, that is a family, that is a relationship that that whole thing is built on. And when we were talking in the brainstorming, you know, you shared with me that this for you was like the moment that broke the trust. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

That's when I knew I was done. Yeah. I because we had talked about it in therapy, because we had talked about his um his drinking being a problem. Um, one of our therapy sessions, we said, okay, we have an upcoming wedding in three weeks and there's an open bar. Like, how are you gonna prepare for that? And he was just like, I know, like, I know how much it hurts jaguar, like I won't do that, blah, blah, blah. And then for us to get there, having a good time, and all of a sudden, I look up and he's on a dance floor with his shirt ripped and he's sweaty and he's dancing on people, and I'm just like, here we go. Like, now I'm gonna be a caretaker. And my ex-husband is he's a white male, and I'm a black woman, and I'm usually the only minority um when we're around his friends. And so it's just like, it's another layer of just like embarrassment for me, um, having to deal, really handle him. Um, so yeah, that's when I was just like, you know what? We had this conversation, we planned, we prepped, and you still couldn't keep your word. So I was done at that point. And I was ready to leave, and then I found out I was pregnant, which is why it took, you know, a couple of years for me to actually um go through with it, because I'm like, oh, now I'm a mother of two, so I need to really now figure out my plan.

SPEAKER_04

I just uh Jaguar, it is such a testament to just your your tenacity that that moment did not um, you know, I don't see for for a lot of people that may have like derailed them. And for you, it was just like, okay, this is gonna take a little bit longer, you know, but I'm gonna take that time to be like really building on me. And I have to say, I remember because it was in our 90 minute when you shared that, and and just like that moment where I was able to really validate for you. Do you remember that where I was like you having to caretake him in this environment where you are so exposed is so not okay. Like, I think that really that's one of the things I love about 90 Minutes is you get to kind of talk about the hidden things that maybe you've not told anybody else from you know, in my perspective, like I've seen so much of it that I can kind of gauge for you, like, okay, yeah, like this is kind of in this realm. And with that one, especially after you speaking about it at therapy, I was like, oh, that was devastating.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Truly devastating. And I think it's important for us as you know, women in marriages, I see this so often where things like that have happened in the marriage, and yet they're kind of towards the end, they're like, well, but like he's trying, or or but why doesn't my body want to be with him anymore? And then when we go back and they tell me what's happened, I'm like, yeah, that's why. Yeah. There are there are moments that can happen in a relationship that are just so damaging to the safety, to the trust, to even the just like goodwill of you're a person that I want to be around. That really there are moments where we have to just be like too much water under the bridge.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that was the final blow for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. And it absolutely makes perfect sense why it was. So if you're pregnant now, what was your strat? Like, what was the strategy in your head? What was take me to that moment? Like, that is such a raw moment after this moment where, like, okay, trust has shattered. Oh my gosh, now I'm pregnant. How did you get yourself like, okay, I'm still in the game? Like, what was the pep talk there?

SPEAKER_00

The pep talk was okay, like, I have to be selfish and worry about me. Like, I just like, all right, I'm gonna use the fact that we are we are still a two-income household and use my extra money and invest in me. That means therapy, that means joining the community, that means reading books. Like, I really have to even education, like I really have to just invest all in me so that when I'm finally free of this marriage, me and my kids are okay. And I did that for about probably like a year and a half. Yeah, a year and a half. Um, of just really just being selfish and being like, I have to worry about Jaguar. Like, yeah, it was it was hard, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I am I am geeking so hard right now. Like, I want to cry. I'm loving this interview so much, Jaguar, because yes, yes, and I want to just like encapsulate this real quick in a big perspective of absol fucking lutely, as a woman in our patriarchal world where you are not gonna get any handouts or hands up once you are a single mom, this is how you do this a hundred percent. When you have identified, okay, this is not my person, and I'm gonna have to plan an exit strategy. Oh my goodness. And and I just want to say, you know, looking at your partner on the other side too, like who's gonna be the emotionally mature parent in this, you know, dynamic in a lot of ways? Like, who are we gonna have to really rely on to be the one? It's gonna be me. And I love that word, like I've got to be selfish. Like the no shame of knowing investing in me is the best thing I can do for my kids.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. That's all I kept on.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. That was such an incredible, incredible move for you.

SPEAKER_02

That was huge.

SPEAKER_04

So around that time, was that when you found the podcast?

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I just started doing some Google searches and I found you. And um I was listening to your podcast, and there were some times I've always had a commute for work. And so I would always listen on my commute. And there'll be sometimes when I listen, I'm like, yes, Britta. Like I sound like a black auntie at church, like, you better preach. Like, yes, thank you. Somebody's finally saying the words that I cannot get out. Um, but it always felt like I think I told you this, like it always felt like you were like sitting next to me in a car and talking to me. And I was like, oh, I found her. I found somebody that's just like teaching me and really guiding me and making it all make sense. Because there is so much confusion, even though I'm like trying to invest in me, there's still so much confusion of like, am I making the best choice for me and my children? And so you just constantly like educating and like val validating uh in your podcasts and your episodes was just like awesome. Like I yeah, I can't say enough.

SPEAKER_05

Well, that is like the top of the top, like getting to hear you, giving me snaps in the car.

SPEAKER_04

Like, yes, yes, absolutely. And I'm so glad you found the podcast and then you joined the community. Let's start off with like, so so you've been riding in the car with me, right? And feeling that moment of like talking to me. I I've heard women before be like, yeah, I've like talked to you while we were in the car together. Then you join the community. I'd love to hear you be able to speak, especially for so many women listening that are like maybe in your same spot of like they've been listening to the podcast for a while. It, you know, I imagine many of them are like, is the community really, you know, what Brita talks about it being? So if you could share, like, what was that like to come into the community space?

SPEAKER_00

Well, first, let me just tell everyone that's listening. It is not a sales pitch that Brita is giving. The community is amazing. But I also will like to say, like, you treat it like a gym membership. Like you have to use it. If you're gonna invest in it, you have to, you don't have to join every meeting, but like try your best to join the meetings, talk to the women. You can even like DM, like I've sent private messages to women after listening to like the weather week and just being like compelled to just say, I I feel for you, I'm thinking of you. Like, just be all in because it you will get so much out of it. And I and I will say also that the community helped me not so much like not just get through my divorce, but also make sure that I come out of the divorce a better person. Like, I am like, I know how to check myself when I'm being too hard on myself. I know how to, I'm trying to give myself grace. Like, you really teach about um not just the divorce piece of it or stay or go, but really about who you are and how you can be better. And I feel like I'm better because of the women in the community. Um and I I I just I I love them. Like they I I love seeing their faces, hearing how they're doing. Like it's it's a it's a great, great community to be a part of.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and you were someone who, when you came in, that's what I'm always encouraging and hoping women will do, right? You it's it's both a place to like, yes, see others, but you get so much by also being seen. And it's a vulnerable experience because for a lot of us, we've learned like how we move through the world is not sharing what's actually happening. It's that mask, it's that performance. I mean, the moms you talk to at like soccer or school, like they don't really know what's going on for you. But in the community, that's I'm not gonna say that's the currency, but that is like that is the flow. The flow is like very open, raw, authentic. Like, this is me. I don't have to pretend or hold anything back here. And you did that. And I especially loved seeing you when we would get on our weather of the week calls every Friday, which is where everybody just kind of gets to share like their three to four minutes of what's going on. That really allowed people to get to know you and track through your journey with you. What was it like for you being able to share on those calls like the progress of your journey?

SPEAKER_00

Speaking it out loud made it seem like it was it was more manageable. Like when you're in it, you feel like you can't do this, like this is so hard. But then you you you talk it out loud and you just realize that you're doing it. Like every day that you wake up and you, you know, it's just one step. And then also saying it out loud and having the women validate that you're doing a good job and that and also giving advice because sometimes, you know, we we we don't know the process if if you're going through the divorce piece of it. And so just giving advice and really just um again, just I think just validating your feelings and making it so that you don't have to sugarcoat anything.

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think too, you did a great job of like dropping when things were happening or in the chat, you know, sharing and asking for feedback and receiving that feedback and then also giving feedback. I loved one of the things you had said that I loved was you talked about how sometimes in life, like, we can't see ourselves clearly. Do you remember? Tell me more what it was something like we can't see ourselves clearly. And so seeing other women and seeing how amazing they are like allows us to see ourselves.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So on a calls, uh, I was recently on a, I think it was a weather of the week, and there were two women that were talking, and they were really the one was like really emotional and just like, I don't know if I could do this. And it just like sometimes when they're talking and I see them and I can feel what they're feeling, and I'm just like, but you're such a badass. Like the women in the community are just amazing. And what it makes me think about is how we raise our daughters. Um, when I see them, like, because I have a you know, my my three-year-old or two-noty three-year-old, and I'm like, how can I raise her so that she knows, like she trusts that her her intuition is valid and that she just loves herself and respects herself. And a lot of the women I feel like, well, let me say for myself, I feel like that's what I was missing growing up. And so it was hard for me to make good choices for myself. And I feel like that's some of the women in the community is just like they weren't poured into when they were younger, but they really are just so strong and amazing women. And I just realized I've I just pray for all the women that they come out of it, finally seeing like, oh, this was hard, but I did it. And I I'm gonna thrive and I'm gonna be amazing. So yeah, it's it's really especially now that I'm divorced, I'm just looking at them and I wish I could just hug each one of them like you're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm. Well, and that's I I just have to mention here on the podcast, like that is one of the gifts when we were talking about this episode. It was mainly because you were like, hey, I'm divorced now. Kind of like, do you want me to leave the community to make space? I don't want to take up resources. And my response was like, oh, hell no. I would love for you as long as you want to to stay. Because as you've seen, there are other women in the community that are now post-divorce, and it it like filters back to them now getting to see where you're at in your journey and what you're doing. And especially for the women that I mean, it is pretty cool. Like, you know, you you're along with, I'm thinking of like Jane, who was recently on the podcast, you know, some of the women that I've seen who came in, went through the entire process, are now divorced, and are like just integral parts of the community still, and can kind of reach back through the the time and space to the women that are entering right now and be like, yeah, I remember when I was right there. Like, I love having you on calls and being like, oh, we all remember when Jaguar was, you know, finding your new apartment or trying to figure out the process with how to tell him. And yeah, it's it's very special. So you find the community, you are getting tapped in there. Tell me what else you were using to kind of pour, as you said, beautifully, selfishly into yourself to get that foundation.

SPEAKER_00

Um well, I um knew that I was gonna be eventually going to be uh a single mother, even though I hadn't told my ex-husband yet. So I started to um look for new jobs because I need to make more money while I wanted to make more money just to feel more secure. So I found this great job that I love. Um, I did that. And then my job that I currently have offered um a free MBA program. They'll pay for it 100%. So I was like, I'm gonna go to school. So then I started going to school. Um, uh, you talk about I know there's other platforms that we're working on finding now, but at the time you were talking about like using Chat GPT. Um so I use Chat GPT for my dreams, for like Terra. Like I was just going all in with that. Um, and really trying to find community at home. Like I knew I had the community, you know, through you, but really trying to find it, you know, in New Jersey at my home. Um, yeah, in person. Um, so yeah, trying to go out more with my friends uh and just starting to to try to make a new normal before I actually divorce my husband. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. And for those of you where there is like a period of time, like you kind of know you're gonna leave, but for some reason, like the timing isn't there yet. Like this is always what I say. I'm like, this is the silver lining of okay, let's resource, let's ground, let's really build out that foundation so that when you do make that shift, it is supportive for you because when it's supportive for you, it's also easier on your kids in a lot of ways. Yeah. Um, I know you also mentioned when we were brainstorming that, or you know, talking about this episode, that you went to individual therapy as well, but by yourself. Tell me what that was like.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I started getting the panic attacks again. And I was just like, I need to talk to someone and I need a new therapist. So I found a new therapist, and he really helped um he helped me build the confidence to actually talk to lawyers. Um, I was terrified of that. Um, and he's like, You want a divorce. You're telling me all these things like you want it, but you're not doing anything about that. And I was just like, I know. I'm just like, you know, so scared. And so uh he really just coached me into just doing what I what I know I should be doing, what I need to be doing in order for me to be better. Um, so he was really supportive in that. Um, so yeah, I was able to like actually get some quotes and um really started doing the research uh to find a lawyer.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and it was through that resource research that you met somebody that was like, oh, this can be pretty like simple and cheap, right? Yeah. Which I really want you to speak to because I remember when you shared this, I was like, Yeah, tell me more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I called her and she's like, Okay, so tell me what's happening. Like, what's the house? Like, what are your assets? Do you have children? Like, so I told her our whole story. And she asked, Um, are you gonna be looking for anything from your soon-to-be ex-husband, like financially or any assets and things like that? And I was like, No. And she's like, Well, uh, do you want the house? And I was like, No. So I was telling her all these things, and she's like, You don't want anything from him. And I was like, No, I just want to be divorced. Um obviously there's some things like with custody, things like that, but like financial things, like I didn't really want much from him. And from the the conversation that I had with her, the thing that I did want, she's like, Oh, that's easy. Like, it sounds like you two get along well already, and it'll be an easy divorce. So it won't cost that much. She's like, What cost is when you have to keep going back. And she's like, So do you feel at the time she did ask, like, do I feel comfortable talking to him? And I was honest, I said, no, not yet. So that was like, I want to say in like June, May or June. Um, and then I reached back out to her in October because I was I was ready. Um, and that's when I filed. And on I want to say it was like the week of Thanksgiving, I filed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that was in last year in 2025. Yes. So, wow, yeah. So you talked to her in June, and then by October, so yeah, like three, four months later. And I remember in the community watching you when you really kind of stepped into this piece of like taking steps, engaging. There was still a lot of you managing that fear, and you had a lot of fear around what was gonna happen when he found out. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

What did you what were you imagining?

SPEAKER_00

Like I was imagining him like shunning me out. Like he's not an aggressive guy. I just imagined him like giving me like the silent treatment and it's just making it difficult. So that was fearful. I'm like, because I still wanted to have a relationship with him because he's still the father of my children, and I just imagined him just like pushing me out and then pushing me away from his family, who I still adore. And I just the loss of family was like huge for me. Like the thought of like not being able to still speak to these people after the divorce was was very scary.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely, yes. And I want to speak to that a little because I know what's what's gonna come. We'll speak to to that piece. So I'll I'll hopefully remember that. So take us into the moment where because this is this is the moment that I prepped at the beginning, the like shocker that we all got to go through and experience with you in the community of so you filed and you were told that you know you were gonna get to kind of notify him or give him a heads up. Yeah. Right. Yes. And what happened instead?

SPEAKER_00

So uh in this in uh New Jersey, uh, once you file, they send an email to the defendant that they are a defendant in a case. And it tells you, I believe it told him like what type of case it was, so he was able to obviously figure it out. So he got the email while uh we were at work, and then he calls me and he's like very just like short with me on the phone. He's like, I got an email. And I was like, okay. And he says, Did you file for divorce? And I just go silent. Silent. Oh, I was in my office and I just wanted to crawl into the desk, and I was like, Yes, I did. And he's like, I I got an email saying that I'm a uh defendant in this case. And I was like, I was just so apologetic. I was like, I'm so sorry, like that's not how I wanted you to find out. And he's like, Can you come home now? And so I talked to my team members and I left and we met at our local bar and sat at the bar. He ordered us to drink, and we planned out our divorce at the bar.

SPEAKER_05

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

We sat there for probably like an hour and a half and just planned out how we were gonna do it, where the kids were gonna go, what days they were gonna be with us, like all of it.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So he did not come in aggressive or shaming, or he just was kind of matter-of-fact.

SPEAKER_00

He's matter of he was matter-of-fact, he he was clearly upset. It looked like you just took the air out of him. Um but he was mature enough to put that to the side and just said, okay, she clear she's done. She's done. And he we just mapped everything out. And even when we got home that night, because obviously we're still going home to these two children, no one would ever have known. Like we still were good parents to them, they they didn't feel anything. Um, we communicated well, like there was no sign that there was anything.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And the way, so I want to be clear, the way you had thought that was gonna go down. Like, and and I I do want to say, like, as as much as this may seem like, oh, this should never happen, like, attorneys should always like give you a heads up on that. I've actually seen something similar to this, or like happen a couple times where like something small that seems like it would just normally get communicated, like, hey, by the way, you need to let him know before we file this because otherwise he's gonna get an email, gets overlooked and it just ends up being what it is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I emailed her or called her and was just like so angry. I'm like, why didn't you tell me? She's like, I'm so sorry, I didn't know. That must be a new process that they have. I'm like, great.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And yet it seemed like one of the things I loved is I think maybe through your tarot process, through your intuition, like you had connected into this idea that you know I'm passionate about of like trusting your journey. Of kind of being able to, and and a lot of why it's hard to trust your journey is when you don't have enough of a foundation in yourself. Yeah, then life is just kind of like, ah, I'm managing everything. But in that moment, you just kind of dropped into okay. And you went and you met him at the bar and you had the conversation, and then you got on the call with all of us and told us what it happened. And all of us were like, What? And you guys just like sat down and talked like respectful adults, like, what?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, one one thing that I appreciate about my ex-husband is that he loved me enough to let me go at that point. Yeah, he he loved me and the kids enough to be like, she she's done. Let me find a way to make sure that these two little people still have a good life. So I I will always be grateful for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And this was something, you know, as I said at the beginning, that I like really wanted to highlight in your episode, which is that, wow, what a, you know, and you said this, part of why you were so scared was because you were watching what was going down in the community. You know, you had seen a lot of women who tell their husbands, and it is a shit show, and it is crazy, and they are emotionally mature and they escalate, and respect goes out the window because they don't know how to just like, okay, she is not a part of my body. She is an individual who gets to make her choices, and if she's done, she's done. Now we need to move forward. They're so caught in, I didn't expect this, this isn't what I want. It's focused on their piece.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And so that had kind of built for you a little bit on like, oh my God, this could go pretty crazy. And it can. That's something that sure, you know, is part of the process. So I love you making the point, because I am so big on this that I believe real love is exactly that is letting somebody go. When you truly love somebody, real love is listening to what someone's saying to you. And when they're saying, this is not working for me, I'm not happy here. It's not, well, let me convince you otherwise. And but we can make it different. And let me tell you all the reasons you're wrong, or let me convince you otherwise, like, oh, stop. Right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes, a hundred percent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So he's he's one of the, I'm gonna be honest here, he's one of the rare examples we've seen in the community, but one of the really beautiful examples of, like you said, somebody who loved you enough to respect your choice. Yes. Because that, in my opinion, is what real love really looks like.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I think now that we're what um since I moved out, I moved out in March. So it'd been like a month and a half, almost two months, and I feel like we're better as friends than we were as husband and wife. Like we get along really well. Like the first week I had them, I got sick, and he just came over and got them. And he brought me medicine and tissues. Like, he's like, feel better, I got them. Like, that's for everyone who has small children, especially. Like, that's how it should be. Like, you still should take care of each other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. Because this is oh, I just wish so many husbands could figure this piece out of that just like genuine respect and caring for another person. Yeah and and owning your shit. You know, I think in a lot of ways, like a part of your husband knew okay, you know? Instead of trying to project all of that and avoid all of that, it was just like, okay, this is this is what it is, and it's time to move forward from here. I love that when you were sick, he came and picked up the kids. Like, hell yes, to this. Can we have this be what more men understand and are leaning into of catching the bigger vision of, especially? I mean, if you're if you don't have kids, different story, but especially if you have kids, this person's gonna be in your life for the rest of your life. Yeah. What kind of a friendship working relationship do you want to have with them going forward? And he may not have understood that entirely, but I bet you anything, he understands that a lot more now.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. And I think it's important for your kids to see you get along too. Um, there really is no difference for our children besides we have separate homes. We still respect each other, we speak to each other. Like, we don't stop a parent from not speaking to the kid just because they're not with them. Like, there really isn't a difference. And I think that's important for the children to not feel that there's any change. Just, you know, where I lay my head at night. That's the only difference.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I noticed too, with you and your husband, nobody played the victim.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_04

That's where a lot of husbands in their emotional distress and really not wanting to accept like responsibility for the choices they made that have really led here. It's that spiraling into the victimhood and the oh, well, just give me one more chance, or just the the urgency of let me try to fix this, probably a little bit more where he was, like the two years before that, where you were in therapy. Yes. No, thankfully, he did not try a rerun of that season.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Thank God.

SPEAKER_04

That pilot, we tried it, it was not a good pilot. Let that show go. We're not bringing you on for season two. No. So it's two months now that you've been, you know, divorced. I would love you to share a little bit more about what the co-parenting looks like between the two of you when you have a divorce like this that is more respectful. Um, yeah. Well what is it like?

SPEAKER_00

Co-parenting has been uh great because because our children are so young, um, we really try to, even though it's not our day. So like the kids are with him tonight, but tomorrow morning, I'll go to work. I go to work early in the morning. I usually stop there and I'll see them before they go to school. Just like a 15-minute just to hug them, kiss them, have a good day. And then I'll go to work and then he'll still have them. And same thing, like we still, even though it's not our day, we still find a way to see our kids. Um, so I saw them this morning, I'll see him tomorrow morning. Um, and we really just try to collaborate. Like, if he were at the playground and one of them says, I want to see dad, he'll drive up and play with them and then he'll go home. Um, and but we also do give each other a day because we know our kids are so young, they're always gonna want to see us. But yeah, if this is your day where you're just like, I don't have to see the kids, I can go shop. And the other day he said I went shopping it and I got a manicure. And I was like, Oh my god, I'm so proud of you for doing that. He's like, like he's he has to find himself too, so he needs his day. So we give each other a day if like we're not going to see the kids, but we really just try to be whatever the kids need. That's really what it is.

SPEAKER_04

That word, like we get to be collaborative. Oh, this is what gets sacrificed. This is what so many men don't understand when they are fighting to keep that marriage at the expense of any kind of respect or goodwill that is possible post-this. I mean, I and I that's why I love getting to have you share your story because I've never seen a divorce like this, Jaguar. Like, this is new for me to get to see um something that is this beautifully open and collaborative. I it's made me also sink into like some appreciation too, for you know, it took me and my ex-husband, I would say we're about six years out now, and I feel like we're really, we do a lot more of the collaborative. The heat from the flames of the divorce has died down, those embers are kind of out. I now have a partner, you know, he's really leaning into being a dad. And so it is more collaborative. And like you said earlier with the like loss of family, his parents moved back in the last couple years and have really kind of reconnected with me. I, you know, I my I don't not close with my family anymore. And just how lovely that is to like to see your, you know, I think of my ex-husband now exactly as like a friend or even, you know, a part of the family. He is we're we're still this family unit, and we can be because we can work together collaboratively now and with respect. So I loved you talking about how part of you, you know, being sad you were gonna lose that connection with his family, and that the way you guys have done this, it sounds like that's not the case. There hasn't had to be a huge loss of connection.

SPEAKER_00

No, not at all. Not at all. We uh his family will still randomly text me just to check in. I told him that I gave them my address. I said, if you guys ever want to come over when the kids are here, you know, come over. So it's it's been good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And that's what that's what's so needed. I mean, we need community. We need local community. And often, you know, that first line of community when you get divorced is gonna be your ex-partner. And what a beautiful example of like getting to have a partner where instead of the children becoming this way to manipulate, or as we see in the community a lot, husbands to play the victim and make it out like the mother is so horrible for wanting the divorce. All that really does is make things tougher on everybody going forward. Yeah. Another piece I'd love for you to talk to is because I this was another thing that blew my mind watching you go through it, is how your children handled the move and the divorce. Like every time we checked in with you, they were like excited. And I was like, what?

SPEAKER_05

This is just tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00

Uh for the six-year-old, we reached out to his teacher and the guidance counselor for some information. So we we um went to the library, got some books, read him some books before I moved out, so he understood what was happening. And before I moved in, the leasing agent, she let me bring him just so he could see his new spot and you know, run around, which I really appreciated. Because I told her, you know, I'm getting divorced, and she was like, Oh, you're my fourth divorcee today, but you're the happiest. I was like, thanks. Um but yeah, she let him come around and let him just run around and check it out. And he saw he was excited. And my husband or ex-husband made or helped with his excitement as well. Um, he brought him here too. Um, and my two-year-old, she doesn't know any different. So she's excited, whatever her brother's excited about. Um, so yeah, I think the two of us working together just to like read to him every night about divorce and mommy's home and daddy's home, like I think that really helped. Um, and having my ex-husband come over uh sometimes to come play with them, um, I think that helps too. Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04

I also want to highlight and come back to this piece where you mentioned your husband your ex-husband getting his own manicure. And I just am obsessed. And you mentioned that you've noticed for him too, like both of you having that alone time is helping both of your mental health. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Yes. I I'm I'm not having like any like deep conversation with him because I still feel like there's a little bit of him, he's not ready, which is fine. He doesn't have to, but I can see it. I can a hundred percent see that he is finding himself. Um, and he's doing things that he wouldn't have done um if I was still living there, if we were still married. So I'm very, I'm very proud of him, like finding who he is, um, and taking the time to actually do that when he doesn't have the kids versus just sitting in a house, like he's actually getting out and going to do things. So I'm very proud of him. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And this one, I just once again, it this is a glimpse into what I believe is possible when we come to divorce and post divorce as a like an opportunity for creating something new, especially when we look at the previous situation with the two of you married. Always together, always with the kids, and how draining that is. Like, yeah, you have no time for self-connection besides like work and family, work and family. And you don't know anything else. And so, as someone who is now divorced and gets to have time away from my children, I see in him, I'm like, he, there's a part of him that's like, oh, this is actually really great.

SPEAKER_00

I think it makes us better parents, too.

SPEAKER_04

I that is like one of the biggest things that you you know from the podcast that I am like just so big on. I think the idea that two people are gonna get married and just live in this tiny little ecosystem where they are the only ones really there with their children. Humans have not lived that way in the thousands and thousands of years. We've lived in communities, we've raised children in communities. So I love that the two of you have in breaking open the marriage, dissolving the marriage, you are creating this different dynamic that is actually more supportive for still just as supportive, if not more supportive for the children, but also supportive for both of you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, having that time to just like reset so I don't have them the next two nights. I'm just gonna that's what I usually try to spend time with like reading and really trying to pour into myself. And then and then when I see them, I pour into them. And then I get to reset. It's like a just a constant cycle, but it's good. Like I need that break from them.

SPEAKER_05

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_04

I'm raising my hand because I'm like, I became such for me personally, I really struggled as a mother. You know this before when I was a stay-at-home mom. So having that reset time is key.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I want you before we close, a couple final questions for you. So, one of the questions I really want to know is you're newly divorced, two months out, right? What is like calling to you on the horizon? What gets like butterflies in your stomach? Like, what are you excited about for the last like six years of your life, Jaguar? It's been disillusioned. You know, it's been like realizing shit, this is not what I thought it was. Okay, I'm gonna have to prepare to get ready to leave. And building all of that to this moment of leaving, now you're on the other side. What is catching your vision on the horizon? Like what calls to you right now?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I think exploration. Like I really just want to like get out and just like explore the area around me, travel. Um, that that really excites me. Like just being the exposure, the exposure to new things really excites me.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And freedom. Like that. Yes. I love that you're saying like exploration, because I think that's what a lot of us, as especially as wives and mothers, we lose because we are just such a source of stability and you know, holding everything together that freedom and exploration is like bottom of the list. Like, what? I don't even know. You know, travel is a burden because I'm gonna have to pack a whole bunch of shit for everybody. You know, no, thank you. But yeah, you now have space to go explore, to go sit in a coffee shop, you know, all by yourself and just let sun soak into you while you get to taste coffee, you know?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

It's these beautiful moments of exploring. You get to step down a side street one night and go see, you know, that new speakeasy that's tucked in, or the freedom to really rediscover yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

Without needing permission or to tell somebody or to make sure everybody else is okay first.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, to the permission.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. It's like, oh, I'm an adult again.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I'm not just a mom. I'm not just, you know, a wife, like having to do all these things or what I am at work. I'm actually like getting to enjoy the benefits of being an adult.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, a hundred percent. I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_04

When I want. Yeah, I'm very excited about that too. Final thing I would love from you is just when you think of a woman listening to this episode who might be, you know, where you were at in the six years prior to this moment. What would be some of the things you would want her to know right now with where she's at?

SPEAKER_00

Take a deep breath and you are where you need to be. You're right where you need to be. Invest in yourself. And it'll it'll all just the puzzle pieces will come together.

SPEAKER_04

So beautiful. Yes, yes. Thank you for sharing with us your incredible journey of putting all those puzzle pieces together.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you. Truly an honor to get to interview you, Jaguar. Thank you so much for sharing with us.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for the I loved it. I hope I did a good job.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, you've crushed. So many moments where I was doing my own snapping.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

For all my listeners, thank you for joining with us. Once again, this is I love the opportunity to interview women on the podcast where you get to hear their voices and their story. Such an incredible gift. For those of you listening that are like, oh my God, yes, I'm loving the podcast. And wait a second, Jaguar said, Brita said it's not just an advertisement. It really is what she's talking about. To join the community, you can text stay or go community to 33777 to come over and join us there. Jaguar is still in the community. So if you get over, definitely say hi if you see her on one of the calls. That'd be really lovely. And yeah, we will talk to you. I will talk to you all soon. I'll see you on the episode next week. Till then, sending you all love.