Welcome to the Stay or Go podcast, where we're changing the dialogue around divorce so that no woman ever stays in her marriage out of fear. Get ready to dispel myths, learn life-changing tools, and build a solid foundation in yourself from which to make your decision. And now your host, me, Britta Joe. Welcome back, everybody. This week, um, as I've already been talking about and mentioned on the podcast and over on the Substack, currently over in the Stay Orgo community, we are spending April and May exploring the realm of connection and specifically how we connect down into ourselves, to those deepest parts of ourselves. And while I was doing this work, um, kind of creating up this curriculum that I've been introducing in the community this year and sitting with, you know, for myself, what are some of the tools I've used to help me with connection? Definitely in the top three was Tarot. Tarot has become one of my favorite ways to connect in to my intuition, to hear my inner voice more easily, to just kind of step outside the narrow confines of my mind and the way it's been programmed and what it looks for and to get the bigger picture. And so, of course, when I was thinking about guests I might want to have that in or workshops to do in the community, although I talk about tarot a lot, I use it extensively for myself. And as many of you know, I've even created an AI tarot guide for those of you like me that were like, uh, at the beginning, I don't really know what to do. Um, that's in episode 50. If you don't have that, go check that one out. I've heard from many of you how helpful that's been. But I was like, I want to do something different. I don't want to teach it. I want to bring somebody else in to vibe about it with, to really get to have their perspective and take on it as well. And lo and behold, y'all, my amazing guest from episode 45, Alison Alexander, who was one of my very first guests to bring into the community, is a tarot aficionado. And has um many years working with Tarot. I was so excited when I remembered this, reached back out to her, and I am very, very delighted to welcome her back to the podcast to vibe with me and deep dive around tarot today. So welcome back, Allison. Thank you. Good to be here. Happy to be back. I know. I'm so excited. Um it was beautiful getting to have you way back. I mean, it's crazy. This is this will be, you know, I just hit my hundredth episode. So it's amazing to look at like, oh, we had you back on episode 45 and to bring you back around. I think it's been a little around, maybe around a year. Um, but that past episode was an amazing deep dive into kind of your journey with considering divorce, going through that process. And then you came in and did a stunning breath work workshop for us and the women in the community, which I love and is still over in our extra resources there within the community. But we didn't really get like sometimes those episodes are so deep and heavy because they're such a like big part of that process, and then also like bringing so much meaning that I was just really excited to bring you back to just get to talk about something that we both love and are interested in and that we can kind of vibe about with the other women that listen to my podcast that maybe have already dipped their toes into it, but also have maybe never even played with it at all.
SPEAKER_01I'm excited. I I I love I love all those things. I love talking with people who are know a lot about tarot and people who don't know anything about tarot. So I love the whole spectrum. So I'm excited to just dive in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So to kick us off, I think I'm gonna go the route of those that maybe have not dipped their toes in yet and just pop us off with you introducing us to how you would describe or explain tarot to somebody who really hasn't ever interacted with it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, such a big question. Um, I'll try and make it super um accessible as much as I can.
SPEAKER_00I thought you were gonna say short, and I was like, no, no, take your time, give us the guts. No, no, no, no. Yeah, accessible, please.
SPEAKER_01Accessible. I feel like accessible. Um and so yeah, uh tarot is a the a type of a divination tool. Like I I think um, you know, there's all different types of divination tools, you know. Um there's Oracle cards, which are a little bit different, but I know sometimes people consider, you know, I I actually, I mean, even for myself, I found that Oracle cards were kind of the gateway drug, if you will, to tarot. Um yeah, I feel like so many women and people that I know started with an Oracle deck, and um maybe we'll get into that a bit more about why that is, but um, Tarot is a 78 card system. So pretty much every uh more or less every deck that you pick up, regardless of what the artwork looks like, regardless of like what the theme is, there will be the same 78 cards. Every once in a while you have a creator who gets cheeky and like adds like, you know, another like one or two cards or or something. Um, but for the most part, there's 78 cards. They've been used for centuries. Um they actually have some roots in um Italy. Um, that's where I think the oldest decks are, and they were actually used as playing cards. So if you were to take apart, if you were to get a tarot deck and you were to just start like opening up, you would notice like, oh, this is interesting. This looks familiar. There are suits to it. So, you know, like in a playing card deck, you know, you've got the clubs and the diamonds and whatnot. In the tarot, there are um, what is it, like 56 cards? Math is not my strength. Um, but um there's like roughly 56-ish cards that are basically resemble a playing card deck, but they're um the suits are the pentacles, the cups, the um wands, and the swords. So there was a game that sort of went along with it, but then they've also there's another 22 cards in the tarot that don't have suits associated with them. And those sort of follow the hero's journey. That's how I like to look at it. And those, so together, if you if one were to, you know, regardless, like I said, regardless of who the creator of the deck is, I even have decks that are in different languages. You don't actually have to know what they are because each deck sort of has the same energy behind each card. So I don't know, that's kind of a roundabout answer, but they've been around for a long time. People have been putting their own spin on them for a long time, but there's sort of a a system to the cards. Whereas uh if you were to compare it to an Oracle deck, an Oracle deck is I have decks that have 12 cards, I have decks that have 140 cards. It's really whatever the creator feels called to create, and so that's a little bit different. Um so both different types of decks, but one has a bit more structure to it.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, yeah, that's gonna look quick and dirty. Yeah, but so necessary. I'm so glad I had you do that because I've been working with the tarot for probably I guess maybe two years now. And it's crazy how hearing you go back over it, I'm like, oh, for someone who's back when I had never interacted with it, that just felt so foreign, even hearing, you know, the cups, the wands. And it's so beautiful to realize now, a couple years in, how much it has become this part of me that it's like learning a language that you then get to share and experience like different dialects of or different um flavors with each of those different decks. But with the tarot, it's cool that you do have this foundational piece that is the same and kind of unites all of them in being tarot.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yeah, it makes it easier. And um, I don't know, I have an absurd number of decks in my life. And but it's nice to be able to be like, I can pick up any of them and give us a number, Allison.
SPEAKER_00How many decks do you think you have?
SPEAKER_01Of tarot and Oracle, it is it is probably oh, this is embarrassing. If I were in if I were at my home studio, I'd be able to show you my wall of tarot, and there's a I think there's probably about 50 decks total of different kinds. I love it. And they became a wall of tarot by accident. Like I was like, I wonder if I have enough that could fill up this wall, and sure enough, I did. Yeah, it was crazy.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm I know your you know, your initial reaction to that is like like, oh my god, this is kind of embarrassing. But I have found tarot decks feel like collecting art to me. So I think of it as like a gallery that I'm, you know, acquiring of different artists. I love finding ones that are like very unique or different. I love having artists that like have multiple different takes on different decks and kind of collecting their work. So I know you're like, I have a whole wall, and you were a little embarrassed at first, and I'm over here going, yes, hashtag add that to the, you know, hashtag tarot wall, need this in my life, may add this to the bucket list.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I recommend it. It makes me really happy. And yeah, it's interesting. I mean, well, and also I find they're such a beautiful thing to receive as gifts and to give as gifts. And so a lot of people over the last several years have started to give me, so a lot of them have been gifts. So they might not be things that I, you know, my daughter's giving me several that are pretty funny, um, that I might not necessarily use on a regular basis. But when I look at them, I'm like, oh, that's really sweet. So yeah, I I appreciate it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I also really love you. I that was something I had not thought of, but I'm so glad you brought in the difference between the Oracle and the Tarot. Because same, I definitely started out with Oracle decks. And it almost makes me think of how um, you know, I think in the beginning, an Oracle deck felt more manageable because it was like you're just kind of learning this one deck. And with Oracle, for me, each card kind of felt like its own self-contained message often in some of the early decks I was using. I was using like a lot of Rebecca Rebecca Campbells, which are kind of just like one card things. Um whereas the tarot, like I was just explaining, it's taken me almost two years to start to really feel like it's more a part of me. And when I see cards, I actually recognize them. In fact, I have like a rider weight deck um all up on my wall. I'll have to include a picture for my Substack subscribers so they can see it with all of it broken out because I just wanted to learn those symbols and those visual pieces. So I really loved you explaining that, like for many people, it is I've heard from a lot of friends, it is a kind of common path to do Oracle first and kind of dip in there. And then eventually you find yourself longing for something that's a little bit more just down in that like deep shared language, which becomes the tarot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the shared language pieces is really cool, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So now that we've kind of just given our my listeners a overview for those of them that have never been around tarot, I would love to kind of track back with you into your first experiences with Tarot, especially because, you know, for me, I came from a very strict religious uh background that was very patriarchal. So, you know, it was like, oh, God's power is or divination, like being able to receive inspiration from God is really kind of like through the male lineage. And yes, you can pray, but there's there's there's like limits on what you can do. So I growing up would have thought of like tarot in like the Ouija board realm, very taboo, kind of like uh, ooh, I don't know. Um and I was very interested to get to talk to somebody else about, you know, who's had experience with tarot, what your feelings were or thoughts were about it before you had ever even interacted with it.
SPEAKER_01Such a good question. Um it's interesting. Um I feel I grew up super Catholic and like uh the church was such a huge part of my life. And but but what I've come to realize is that for various reasons, my experience with Catholicism had a lot of mysticism in it. There was like a lot of for various reasons. Um, and I think Catholicism does, I mean, I'm I'm actually literally tomorrow leaving on a pilgrimage to go to a Christian mystic site. Um so um that pull to mysticism and connection has been something that I've been very aware of, but I've I think I always took it very seriously. Like it was like that's a very serious thing, um, and it's not play um necessarily. Um and for tarot specifically, as a like as a younger person, I wasn't necessarily drawn to the tarot, but I was very connected to like mysticism and this this idea that like the divine is everywhere, and there's lots of different ways that you can connect with the divine. And um I remember having a friend who had a tarot deck and feeling very much like, she's like, let's play with this, and feeling a very strong um feeling of this is not for play. Like it wasn't like I thought it was so I I recognize that a lot of people have this um uh a background where it was like bad or like the devil or whatever. And that was not my experience. I think I just always had this sense that that was it was it was big and it needed to be treated with respect. And I think that has carried me through my life. So when I eventually started, as I grew older, I would say in the last like, you know, seven, eight years have really started to connect more with my intuition and my knowing in a more serious way. Like I think it kind of shut that out in some ways. But as I started to intentionally get curious about it, at some point the tarot felt, I felt called to the, I guess it sounds wild to say, but I felt really called to the tarot. And but it was from a place of I want to learn how to use this. It wasn't, it was like I intentionally signed up for a class, like I I enrolled with working with a mentor pretty quickly, um, and took it very serious. Like I've taken it very as serious, like seriously, but but like also playfully. Like, okay, this can be a tool to to learn and to play with, um, but but play as a form of um connecting with the divine. Yeah, connecting with the divine, yeah, I guess.
SPEAKER_00So which has that weight, that kind of weight to it of like connecting with your soul, connecting with perhaps your purpose or ideas or concepts that um yeah, you you may not potentially be ready at times. I I love you talking about being called because I felt the same way. It was like there was just a moment where it was, yeah, I feel ready and I want to lean into this, you know, deeper kind of work of um really coming to know a language that I can speak with my guides, my higher self, source, all of that. Um I love that's one of the things I'm excited about also getting to hear from you around is, you know, it I love getting to provide perspectives like that of you realizing and growing up, believing like the divine is all around, and there are lots of ways we can access it. And I'm realizing like that was that's what was lacking for me growing up was it was like the divine is available, but it can only be accessed through these prescribed channels. And so yeah, tarot, when I first started interacting with it, almost felt like, ooh, I'm a is it okay that I, you know, like I had to really work through and coach myself through, which has really been all of my deconstruction for me coming out of my religion, into more of the mysticism idea that God is accessible in all sorts of different forms and ways. Um now I love that for you, when you came to it, you like went straight into like, I want someone to teach me I'm very on brand.
SPEAKER_01That's just how things like, oh, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna like fully invest in it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was that was not the case for me. Mine was a little bit more of like organically bringing it in and learning it. Um, but I think that has kind of shown in your journey too, because as we'll talk about later, you do read for other people. So what was it like to? I mean, I think that's a beautiful moment of like really investing in, hey, I want to learn this language and I want somebody to teach me. I didn't, I've never had that experience. So I'd love to hear what that was like for you to actually engage in a course or a curriculum that was and a teacher.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um it really just, I mean, it's we we keep using this idea of it tarot as language, and it was really almost like breaking it down into like if you were learning a language, like these are the verbs or the nouns or whatever, you know. So it's like learning what the okay, so as I said earlier, there are suits in the tarot. So if I'm work, if I'm pulling cards and cups are turning up in my um in my reading, this is what cups tend, this is what that suit is about. So that's the flavor of this card. And then you've got numbers. So learning about numerology, learning about, you know, there's different, you know, there are the, you know, the learning the hero's journey and how that applies to the first 22 cards of the major arcano. So it was really like it was just breaking it down into here are the different parts of this language, and then how do you want to how now that you know the parts of the language? And part of it is I had before I enrolled in working with someone about the tarot, I'd really invested in learning about my own connection to my intuition and my flavor of intuition. So, like, you know, for me, I hear, like I hear things. So, like, okay, if I'm hearing something and I'm pulling a card, how do I blend the two? Like, how might what I'm hearing connect with what's on the card in front of me? And so then learning how to, and that was once I had the understanding of the language, then it was um figuring out or exploring how to play with my own intuitive connection in relation to this like card. So that's I don't know if that's what you're asking. That's kind of what it was like. It was like learning the language and then putting my own and then understanding how to how to bring my personality almost to the language.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's one of the things I love the most when we were talking about this episode that you shared that I just hadn't even realized that in you reading, you bring a specific flavor and style to it. Um, that I think a lot of people who have never read for other people with tarot might not realize. Like, yes, you learn the format of the deck, but you're still getting those intuitive readings through that channel, which for you it sounds like is is it called Claire Auditory or Claire Auditor? Yeah, that's one of the that yeah, Claire Audience.
SPEAKER_01That's one of the things that yeah. I I get feel sensations. They're like I I'd Spend a lot of time like understanding how to listen to my intuition. And there's body sensations and also hearing things that tends to be my flavor. This is the loudest of the my intuition.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I had an opportunity. This is totally like a little bit of a rabbit hole, but a couple years ago, both my best friend Quinn, who is the one who when I got into tarot, she was the one that like went and took a course, totally like deep dive, learned all of it, consumed all of it, like digested, and ended up starting to, you know, read for me and read for others. But we worked with a woman around developing our psychic abilities, you know, and it was it was a lot of that, like being able to sense things, being able to hear things. I think it's something that I'm really glad to be talking about on the podcast with you because I don't think it's something I've really mentioned, like the actual intentional leaning into developing those gifts for yourself. So, quick side note, where did you meet this teacher that you were kind of working on developing those psychic abilities with or intuitive abilities?
SPEAKER_01So um it's so funny. I was just texting with her this morning. She's come up so much, I haven't talked to her in a while, and she's come up so much recently for me. Like I've been telling lots of people, I'm like, oh, I worked with Jess. Um, so at the time, I how I came to it is I was working with a a business coach. And I um, you know, this is seven years ago, I think. And she had just the business coach, we um she had like learned about human design or something, and she like pulled my chart as a part, like just kind of a side quest in our business coaching. Like, I don't know. And she was like, she's like, I have a friend that I think would be really helpful if you did a deep dive with. And so I had my human design read with this woman, Katie. And she was, and when she read my human design chart, she said, I've never seen anyone's intuitive centers as lit up as yours are. And she said, I have another friend that I think she was like, and I have another friend. She is, she teaches people specifically how to work with their gifts and connection to their human design. And so I reached out to this woman, Jess, and she was like, Great timing. I'm actually starting a group of women to support them in this way. And so her name is Jess Babaco. She's amazing. She is the, she's such a great um on-ramp for anyone who is looking, who is not totally sure. And that was really how it was. I was like, this is so weird. I just started working with this business coach and like it was like following the thread of like, I think you should talk to this person. Um, and that work was truly transformational because it was so um empowering, I guess. It was like she just affirmed the quiet voices that I had heard or quiet experiences, and then gave and then created a playground for all of the women that were in the group to play with and to start to practice their own unique flavor. And each one of us in the group were totally different. Um, and so that was also really cool because it affirmed, like, oh, there's not one way to do this. And so that was the back, like that was the foundation of um my working more openly with my intuition. And really, I think of it as a remembering because if I really think back, like so many and so much of my early life experiences, I had a very deep connection to my intuition, got away from it for various reasons, as I think a lot of people do. And so it was like a playground to come and remember. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Of course, I will make sure and get those links from you for Katie and Jess and put them in the show notes. Cause I I can already hear my listeners being like, let me see the website, like let me let me see these women. So we'll definitely link those. Um I I love, I'm I'm just like I'm totally geeking out. It's really fun to get to explore with you because our paths are so different, like yours in that way. Um, if I love the idea of doing intuitive work together in a group, but that's something I've never really done before and doing it from a space of play. So um and I think we talked about this. I'm I is this the group where you started to really like learn kind of the the core seed that would blossom later in tarot, but the idea of like reading for other people, was that this group? Yep.
SPEAKER_01So it was like learning all the different types of like and just as a teacher, like she has like an education background, so that's a really great sort of um so she sort of like teaches like here's how intuition can show up for a lot of people. Here's like the very sciencey part of it. Here's the, you know, so it satisfied for someone like myself who had a like a career that was very, you know, research-based and very practical in a lot of ways. It satisfied that piece by laying that foundation and then create space for playing and trading once you knew, okay, here are the here are the ways it could express itself. And like, how do I tap into mine? And then we would trade in the group and develop in that way. And it's true. I mean, some of the things that came out were just like bonkers. Um, so so and then it just kind of like builds your um trust in that. Like that, that's the cool part. It was like, okay, I'm with a bunch, I'm with other people who are feeling some similar pull that I am. And without an agenda, we're just sharing things and then having our mind blown by like, wow, I there's no way I could have actually known that about you, or there's no way I could have actually known that. And so it just kind of is kind of like joining like a small group personal training if you're trying to learn, like if you're trying to, you know, get fit. Like that's really kind of what it was. It was like, uh, you know, how do I work out with a group? Um, but how do I work this intuition muscle with a group?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh. Um, so I want to dive into you start, you know, intuitively reading for these women more through like that muscle that you said you developed, and then you learned the language of tarot next. In combining the two in that process that you talked about, what did you feel like your reading style kind of turned into? Like what was your distinct flavor or take that emerged from both the combining of those two things? Well, I think there's actually a third.
SPEAKER_01There's a special thing. There's a third thing. Um, and that is um my body knowledge, my body experience, like my um connection to breath and body and that knowledge that knowing. So 25 years ago, I did my um Pilates teacher training and have kind of been obsessed with the breath and the body ever since and playing with that in different ways. And so it was becoming connected to intuition and learning how my that worked, and then learning this tarot language. And then over the last several years, I have developed my own style of reading that really connects to the body through breath. So when I read for someone, it it's I can do it a different couple of different ways, but my favorite way to read for people is to pull cards and to breathe, like to really root and ground and breathe together. And then as I'm pulling a card, I'm sharing like this is this this card has this symbology or this, you know, this is what's coming up for me. Can you feel into your body? And if you feel into your body, where does that land? And how do we breathe into that? So, so for me, it over time it became and has become a a blended practice of my intuition, my like knowledge of this language, and then breeding it with this like, you know, decades-long connection to the body experience through breath. And that's kind of how my flavor of reading evolved, I guess.
SPEAKER_00And you're the person that you're reading for almost gets this like rather than just an intellectual process of what you're telling them, it's like a somatic process that's also yeah.
SPEAKER_01I call it somatic reading.
SPEAKER_00You call it somatic tarot reading.
SPEAKER_01I call it somatic tarot, yeah. Yeah, I call it somatic tarot.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love it. This beautiful.
SPEAKER_01And then you can like feel that's the thing. And I think that really connects the language, the image, like whatever's in the field from that card, right, to that person in a in a personal way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Can we just geek out for a second? When you described um that moment when you're, you know, intuitively reading with those women and like something gets said or there's an insight that's gleaned that feels like, whoa, that person couldn't have known this any other way. I think that's one of my favorite things that I've experienced in using tarot is those moments of looking at the cards, interpreting something, um, seeing the visual a different way. And then all of a sudden, like a zing or a connection or a memory or something comes up that allows me a level of understanding into myself, into maybe the situation I'm asking about in a way that is like, oh, this is directly from the magic of like this intuitive language that I'm using here right now, that I'm able to like access this. Do you feel that way? Have you had those moments with it? Yeah. Like, I mean, I'm like, yes, uh this is this is what makes tarot so amazing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It is. And I find it's funny when we are talking about different decks. Like some of my decks have like serious attitude. Like they like I will pull, like, and like, you know, step in the I know what I'm getting when I pull this, when I pull from this deck, because it it has some some attitude to it. Like there's a personality to it, there's a flavor to it. But um it's all in the field, right? Like it's all in this like field of consciousness. And so if you like, even if that idea feels like to someone, like, I don't know what you're talking about, or I don't, like, just just a man, pretend, play with me for a minute. Like it hurts no one to think like, okay, this is in the field, like this is out there, and it is a it's a manifestation of what is there in a physical form in the in the form of a card. Like, and so when you there have been so many times when I have been, you know, pulling a card. I don't so much go to the tarot for advice. That's not a thing that I use it for um personally. I mean, I'm you know, I have, I you can, but I I often look at it, I I often pull with a I want a different perspective. I want to know what else is there. And that's when I think I have those moments of like, oh, I never would have looked at it that way. I never would have, but see the very clear line of connection. And that's what I like. I like being able to see what I couldn't have seen. And that's yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like yeah, that's I think that's why when I was thinking of, you know, tools that help with self-connection for this time period right now in the community. It was tarot is I you know, for so many of us, especially if you're not raised artistic. Like I really I was in a family that was very sports and school oriented. So there was not a lot of appreciation or emphasis on art and how it can help your brain to think differently and to see things and metaphors, and that there is this language of art that can in some ways transcend, I feel massively, the language of words. You know, visual symbols can sometimes connect us to things much quicker than an explanation or much more deeply. Um so tarot was the tool that I have found is like the most um also in a like deeply way, like connected to more of like a yin energy for me of this creative, moving, kind of flowing energy instead of the more kind of way that we think about the world.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yeah. It um yeah, being able to to connect to the symbols is often like that that often that happens a lot, especially with decks that I use all the time. Like I have a deck that is, I call it my cast iron skillet, like it's seasoned very well, like and is like my go-to to see some things. And I'm always amazed that has very simple images on it, but I'm always amazed at sometimes when I'll look at it like, oh, I didn't, I don't usually notice this rabbit that's here, but I'm really feeling called to this rabbit that's on this card. And you know, rabbits are about new beginnings, and you know, and so sometimes it's the symbol that's layered on top of the card that um is unexpected and provides some like aha moment for sure.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00So in I want to explore a little bit in reading for other people. How have you seen the tarot help the people that you've done readings for? My goodness.
SPEAKER_01Um, so I um I always say it's not therapy, it's therapeutic. Um, it is not uncommon for people that I read to to cry um or to experience big emotions. Um and that for better or worse, that's just how it is. Um like we go, we go deep when we're when we're reading it. And so I I think oftentimes it's affirm it it's bringing something that they knew or something that they felt deeply. And again, that it that is access through, okay, I'm pulling this card. This this card sometimes can mean this. Can you feel into your body like this is what's coming up for me? Can you feel into your body? Like, and then it's like this um deep desire that they've had, and deep knowing that they've had, and maybe they never said it to anybody that has come through so many times. Um, and so for me, it's really important to create a really um intimate, is it's a very intimate experience to do a one-on-one reading. Um, and my that's just the way that I do it. I guess maybe not everybody. And I say that, but also I have been hired to do parties, then I've read like there have been I've done like uh graduation nights, I've done like so. I can also like keep it different, but it's really it's a trust, it's a relationship, it's an experience where like you're setting across from it's vulnerable. And so I take that very seriously and just connect and then yeah, but it um has been something that I've had to practice, and you know, um can be um interesting to like pull a card and be like, oh, this is a tough one. Like this is a tough card to share. You know, there are I I feel very strongly there are no bad cards. I feel that like honestly, like the death and the double cards are probably two of my favorite cards because they like so the same.
SPEAKER_00Like I like. Now, after yes, after working with the tarot longer, of course, in the beginning, the tower, death, the devil, they all kind of freak you out in the beginning, but especially as I've worked with other decks that show different interpretations and have read guidebooks that kind of provide like expanded ideas around each of those. Ugh, I'm always like, but yes, there is a like that gravity of those cards because it's like, oh, there's deep work here right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So it feels like those are invitations to be really um gentle and really like, okay, how do I, how do I support this vulnerable person? And like seeing this, you know, something we might label as bad moment, and look at them and say, like, I I I feel that fear and also can we breathe into it? Can we breathe into it? Like, and that feels like um a gift that I've had the opportunity to do with some people with like um, you know, I've had people who've come to me because they've had a tragic loss and they wanted to kind of make sense of that. Um, I've had people who are having difficult experiences and their marriages or difficult difficult experiences around having children. You know, people come to I find that a lot of people tend to come to me when they're um in in very tender places. And so just practicing holding that in reverence is what's important to me.
SPEAKER_00It um it makes me think a lot of how it feels when I'm working with a client one-on-one. And we're reaching those moments in the journey where it's like, oof. And it is like you said, something you have to hold very tenderly because you are like introducing something to someone's psyche or that I don't know about you, but in in coaching or I, as you've seen in tarot, it's made me have deep reverence and respect for how deep all of our psyches are, how much all of us are going through what on the surface may not look like very much, but underneath there is a lot of very tender parts that we all kind of hide that it sounds like the tarot can kind of pull open or or make space for getting those um pieces to kind of come up to the surface and be acknowledged consciously.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Like they really um, you know, I I feel, you know, I've had a hard time over the years trying to label what it is I do exactly. And I feel like what I've landed on is I'm a spaceholder, like, and that practice is holding space. And holding space does not mean I have an it means I don't have an anticipated outcome. It means I'm here to hold what is and I don't need to fix or change it. Like, but I'm just here to to be in that and that. And that has to be able to do that to the degree that I know I am able to do and that I have confidence in has required me to do my own work on not wanting to fix um Oh my goodness, yes, other people's pain. Yeah, can I hold other people's pain? And it turns out I can, but it's only because I've been able to move through my own and give it that space.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00So, along with that, you know, I love you explaining that you watch it do this for others when they're getting their readings from you. But I have to say, this is what I love most about tarot individually, is that, like you said, the cards can take you to places that maybe you wouldn't be able to see on your own. So I'd love to hear in your own personal journey, as you were just explaining, like how much work you've had to do in processing your own pain and holding space for yourself. How has Tarot supported you in that work?
SPEAKER_01Um, in so many different ways. Um, you know, I I've pulled I pulled a daily card for I think six years now. So I have a and I have a recording of like it's written down. So what I actually like to do is some so so sometimes it's very obvious. Like I pull it in the morning and I'm like, oh well, this makes sense. This is what I've got on my day. But like sometimes it doesn't make sense. And so in that case, like I'll come back to it like at the end of the day. And I'm like, uh, well, that's how that showed up, or you know, whatever. Um, or then it's really nice because I will look at like a week and I can review like, wow, wow, there were a lot of cups. Like this was a real like relationship-focused week. This was or or periods of time, or um, a lot of times, if you like in the middle of my like end of my marriage, like when things were changing, the tower was like, it was like stalking me like crazy. And like was it was annoying. It was, I would like pull and be like, what the hell? Here we go again. Like, um, so it's cool, I think, because now I have so much data. Like again, like I worked in research for a long time. So I have like a lot of like data of like, oh, this actually does align. Um, or sometimes like a card will come up and I'm not fully understanding it. Like, oh, I I don't like I was pulling the chariot for a while, which is like kind of a weird card. And I was like, this doesn't resonate at all. And I would come back at the end of the day and I'm like, still don't get it. And then a couple days would go by and then it would come back and like, and then I would see, oh, actually something started that day. So like it's been cool to have sort of a longitudinal rel like to a long-term relationship, especially as I've gone through a lot of change in the last few years. That's I think I don't know if that totally answers your question, but it's given my life um kind of, you know, like some themes that I can pull apart. And if I would go back and reflect, it's like, oh, I see that now. And it it and it, you know, I it's not like a super serio like that's the other thing is like, yes, I I said earlier, like the tarot is a serious thing, but I don't like hold it so precious. Like I don't, you know, like I'm like, okay, I pull the card and like sometimes I sit with it, and sometimes I'm like, oh, just pull it and then I go on with my day and blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, that's the beauty of I mean, just I think your essence too is that and mine in some ways as well. Like, yes, there are like deep parts, and also sometimes, like you said, the tarot is just like, oh, okay, got that for today, or I didn't really get to spend that much time with the spread today. Or um, I have to say, I'm obsessed, like so excited for this gem that you just shared of this idea of a way to interact with the tarot. I have never, I've never been that diligent about actually like writing down and tracking patterns. But now that you say this, I literally this last week was thinking, because I pull a four card spread every day and I use the tarot daily. I found it's not so much you know, in the beginning, it was a lot of like wanting to know answers and wanting insight kind of about like what's coming. And I kind of learned I didn't actually want to know what was coming. Yeah. Yeah. Like I kind of got to a point where I was like, sometimes it's easier on me not to kind of know too far ahead. But my spreads anchor me into the day. It's like if I'm going through something in the day that feels a little bumpy, it's like, okay, let's go back and look at the spread. You know, what was the theme? What am I leaning into? What am I trying to let go of? And what does my higher self want me to know? And just that little connection um feels really supportive. But I love that can be a lot for people pulling a four-card spread. I love that you have this. I've never done that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You said it, I was like, my lord, that is a lot.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Glad it works for you. It's like, like, wow.
SPEAKER_00But I love, that's why I was like, oh, and this year, this is this is not surprising, Allison, considering uh the women in my community who like last year we did a workshop where I taught them a technique of mine that was like so overwhelming for everybody. And we did like a recap afterwards, and everybody was like, this was a lot. And I just got into diagnosed with ADHD. So I was like, okay, so maybe this is only for the ADHD girly. Yeah. So I love though the simplicity. That's one of the things I've been really trying to land more in this year, especially in the community, because it helps our nervous systems just kind of take a breath. We don't have to have, you know, four different cards, one card. And I love the idea of like, do you just keep it in a journal or an Excel spreadsheet you're tracking?
SPEAKER_01Um I so I do a daily journal. So I journal every day. So it goes in my at the top of my journal every day, like before I pull it before I write. So it goes at the top there. But then I also have a um those like magic of eyes um planners. I have bought those for the last five years. So I also write it in my planner. So it's written down in two different, I have two different reference points. It is not digital, it's not digitized. Um, and anyway, um, I do also pull, I have a deck that I only pull on the first of the month. And so at the beginning of the month, I pull two cards from that deck and those go on my altar. And those um, one card is for the subconscious energy of the month, and one is for the conscious energy of the month. And so sometimes I relate to the the daily card to those, like in my reflection. But I took um another one of the classes I took was a young Ian tarot class. And oh my gosh, what? Yeah. And the woman who taught that, um, she is brilliant. She actually just wrote a book. I'll have to get it to you. Um, but she doesn't she was very much like, I don't think I do not poll every day. I do not think you should pull every day. She really advocated this only pulling at most two cards a week. And fascinating. And so that's when I adopted this monthly, I couldn't let go of my daily poll because I like it. And I was like, okay, well, nice information, but I'm gonna do what I want to do. But I took that, I took her subconscious, um, conscious polls and and put them at the beginning of the month. And that's how I've been working with those. So that's another way that's that I work with it.
SPEAKER_00I love that one as well. I I do a similar every like two weeks, new moon, full moon, but I use the Kim Crans Oracle deck, her archetypes one and her alchemy ones, where I'm pulling like a spread that like kind of guides me for those two weeks. And I find it to be very, very supportive because I don't know about you, but sometimes, like you said, I I get lost in what are the overarching themes of what I'm experiencing or what I'm going through right now in the like daily just go, go, go. And so having spreads to look back at, or, you know, I love the idea of two cards for the month that are just kind of giving you a flavor. It's really beautiful. I I also am definitely gonna need the link for the Jungian woman because oh my God, I have just barely in the last few months started diving into like reading Jung and doing a lot of dream work, a lot of subconscious work. Oh, it's just it, I I think what I love most about the tarot is it just adds in. It's just another tool, but it's a very beautiful tool. That's the other thing. Like journaling, I love journaling. I, you know, when I was thinking of like what are some of my top ways to connect? Definitely journaling, definitely going to my intuition. But tarot is just unique and special in that really just beautiful way that it is. For sure. Yeah, yeah. So as we're coming to the end of this episode, what advice would you give someone new who is getting to work with tarot for the first time?
SPEAKER_01Um let yourself connect with it. Like take the pressure off. Like I really um like really it's an opportunity to just um I I think what can be really interesting, what I like to do when I did early on was I would take the major arcana, they're numbered from zero to twenty-one or twenty two. There's twenty-two cards. I the numbered numbers don't matter.
SPEAKER_00You'll you'll see. Yeah, because of the full being zero.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's very obvious. Like you'll be able to look and like kind of look at that journey. And and that will that gives you a a lot of information. Like, okay, um, so just like if you just take out, like put all the cards out in front of you. That's one way you could just like, what are you noticing? What are you? And even if uh when I first started working, um, let's just I just remember this. The when I first started work working with the mentor that I was working with to learn, she had me take out the major arcana, so take out those first 22 cards and only pull from those for a while. So you like start to get to connect with those major energies. So those started to make sense. So that sort of started to put some structure. So that's a way you can do it because it then it goes from 78 cards to 22, becomes a lot easier. Um I think that's a great way to do it. And also, like, just um my sister came on, I went on a an intuitive like retreat that was hosted by this woman who I learned tarot from, and she gave everybody a deck at the beginning. And my sister had never touched a tarot deck ever. And she was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do any of these things. And the way that she introduced it in like the opening of this retreat was she was like, Okay, just pull a card and like what do you feel? Like, there's nothing wrong. Like, just look at the picture. What do you feel? Like, and and I think if it's a well done deck, and like my sister was able to do it like very quickly, like, and yeah, you can learn, just like, you know, I I've been learning Italian and my Italian is terrible. But as you learn more of a language, like you start to learn different ways to say things and you start to be able to make more complex sentences. So I think it's the same thing. Like, start very simple, like start with just that. Um, just looking at it, what do you feel? And go from there. Like you can you can learn more, but it can be as simple as look at the cards, what do you feel?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And if you're more like Allison and you're like, oh my God, this is really serious. I need a guide. We will have some links. There are plenty of There are plenty of people who teach it. Yes, absolutely. Amazing resources around getting support in that way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, with that in mind, with you mentioning that the deck that your sister was pulling from was pretty like intuitively accessible. What are some of your favorite decks when it comes to tarot?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so my um my cast iron skillet that um everyone loves because they're beautiful. They're also like they're beautiful. Um, they're called the Moon Witch Tarot, and it's by Cosmic Valeria is her name. Um and they're so pretty. Those are that is my favorite deck. The images are really simple and they're really beautiful. Um, is a more like I think it's one of like the more expensive decks that I have. I think they're like $55. So, like, you know, like if I were to tell anybody, like if I could only, if I could only, if I were abandoned on an island and I could only take one deck, that would be the deck like that's that's coming with me. I think it's easy to learn with. It's the one that I often teach, or if I'm doing a group event, it's the one that I'm bringing because I think it's the most accessible. Um there is a deck that a lot of people like to learn with, and it's called the Lightseers Tarot. Um it's not my favorite. I like I'll just like not like it's my favorite. It's like everyone, like everybody loves that deck.
SPEAKER_00And I guess. So you have to tell me why it's not your favorite. Like, what do you tell me more? I just totally want to know.
SPEAKER_01I ha it's funny because I I somebody gave it to me and I've lost it. So I don't even have it anymore. And I when they gave it to me, I was like, maybe I'll maybe I'll try and like it. I I don't I I was like, it's this makes me I love this so much. I actually call I told one of my friends, I was like, I was like, it feels like it's like try harder. Like, I don't know. There's just like it's like trying too hard. I don't know. There I have like a weird feeling about it. And it's it's really beautiful. I am one of like, I'm the only person I know who doesn't like it. Who doesn't? Take that. I'm and it's very accessible. Everyone, like, I think it's easy to read. It's very the images are very obvious. There's a card that looks like Anthony Keatis on it. I forget which one it is, but like I don't know, there's just some of the some of the it's fine. Like that's why there's different kinds. Um, that's just but the woman who created that one has another deck that I love. Tell me which one. So it's like um the muse.
SPEAKER_00Oh, the animal one. It's because I have I started off. So light series is the deck that finally I started to like get my feet underneath me reading with. And I think that's because hers are more on the nose. The images and that's what I mean by like Jackie Harper. That's what you're saying. Like, I am so obvious. They're so obvious. So for a beginner, it's like being spoon-fed the tarot. Plus, I feel like a lot of the images are toned down. So the devil's not that scary. Death is not that scary. Yes. It's a like great entry-level point for those that might be a little more I'm kind of nervous about the tarot, which is why it's like my go-to. I love it. And like you said, the images are very on the nose. Um, but I'm so excited that you like her animal one because the deck I have been geeking out about this year is her Muse Tarot, which is also just a very like light-filled, um, positive one. But I like, I kind of enjoy my decks that way. My partner Joe just got one called the Lubanco Tarot. Have you ever heard of that one? No. He is like my beautiful deep emo skater man. So he wanted one that was darker. And that deck, holy shit, the one time I played with it, I was like, this is I'm not ready for this. Like it was some deeper, darker, like shadow work that I was like, someday. So it really is true. When you said you have decks that are like spicy or come through in a little bit different energy, they all have their flavor. Yes. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01I I do like our animal one. I like that one a lot. I think it's good. And I use that, like I said, I do an annual event at the high school here every year where I read for the graduating seniors. And it's so special. And I always use the that animal deck, and they love it. Like, because it's also they're not like cartoony animals, like they're they're like they're cool animal. So yeah, pretty easy.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00So we know you're not a big light series deck fan, which I love. I I love that so much because that's just like I love your little rebel side. That's one of my favorite things about you, Allison. If you don't know that, go listen to her episode 45 and you'll get a good taste of that. Um, any other decks that you're like, oh, just beautiful or can't live without?
SPEAKER_01Um there's this really beautiful folk tales, folk fairy tales deck. Um and I am blanking on the name, but it's really beautiful. There's a a there's like an Asian, like Japanese garden on the front of it. So if you Google like if you were to look like folk folk tarot, you'll probably come. And each card is actually um a it's a good one for somebody who's a beginner and wants to pull one card at a time. It's not a deck that I would recommend for somebody to learn how to do a spread with. It's actually could be, you could do some really deep work with it because each card has a different um folk tale or fairy tale from around the world to represent the story. And in the guidebook, it tells you a little bit about the story, but then you can also like read the story. You could go like you could take it a step further. And again, like what is the archetype being represented in this story? And the the art in it is so beautiful. I really love that deck a lot. It's another really good one. Um, but it's again, that's I wouldn't do a reading with that one. That's more of like a one card at a time deck. Beautiful. Um yeah, and I have a I have a a deck, the Santa Muerta deck, um, that's all skeletons. And it's a darker, like I would say it's uh it's darker, but it's actually really easy to read. Um, because the skeletons are kind of like beautiful and playful um in a way, and they I like the there's not a ton of color in the deck, but each suit has a color that corresponds to it. And the c so the color is easy to to like to connect with the like you know, the pentacles are green, which were which I think signals to the brain, like we're talking about water, like or not water, sorry, and we're talking about earth, like we're talking about the earth element. So like there's little pieces of that deck that I really appreciate because it's simple, yet like the images are really beautiful. Um that was one that I got early on as well that was gifted to me. Like that one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I love you sharing that because that is when you're thinking about like starter decks, it is so helpful to have ones that are kind of I think I the other one I used was like, is it the Good Witch Tarot?
unknownI can't.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have that one too. The one where she she really sticks actually very more than any of these, I think that we've listed to the rider weight style, and and so that can kind of help you get your feet underneath you if if you're really wanting to follow the kind of yeah pieces there.
SPEAKER_01So I really think the the moon witch is the one that I would I would say if you're gonna do it, it's so beautiful. And every time you'll want to play with them because they're so beautiful. Like they're gold, they like they have like gold like imagery and they're they're just really pretty.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love it. That's the other amazing thing. I I was just thinking when you were talking about your wall of tarot at the beginning. I was like, you know, my grandma collected porcelain birds. I collect tarot cards. Yeah. We all we all have our thing. We all have our thing. I'm gonna be the grandma that has a tarot wall. Beautiful. I love it.
unknownI love it.
SPEAKER_00Um thank you so much, Allison, for coming on and spending time with me, getting to talk. I feel like not only did I get to learn so much from you, but I feel like this was exactly what my listeners needed. I mentioned the tarot occasionally. I've talked about my work with it, but never like this beautiful kind of bigger take on pieces of it that I'm really glad we get to now have, like beautifully firmly here on the podcast. Um, I know we talked, and I would love for, because I know my women are gonna be like, oh my gosh, she does tarot readings, you know, perhaps wanted to connect with you. And you mentioned that you are shifting your offerings this year. So I don't want to leave them hanging. Like, let us know what it's like to work with you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, like I said, I have come to realize, oh goodness. Um, I've come to realize that my work is I'm a spaceholder and that it I um, well, yes, it's beautiful to do these one, these drop-ins um and to do a reading, but really um I have seen the most profound shifts and it's the most fulfilling to me to be able to work in longer, more intimate containers with people. Um so I do a 12-week intensive program um with people who are in like serious transition who really want intensive support um as sort of in that way. And then I also offer six or nine month containers that are a bit more spacious, um, that are, you know, for less, I think, acute, but more like, oh, I'm sensing that my life is shifting in some way and I want to want support. And in those containers, I bring in the elements of reflective somatic tarot, those types of things. So those are a part of my longer work. Um, so I'm just, and I'm doing like I'll be doing the workshop with your, with your people, and I'm doing like some group spaces and dropping in. Um, but yeah, the that's how my work is shifting, starting in.
SPEAKER_00And I somehow I love it. I I think that's so beautiful when you hit that moment of like, this is what also fills my soul back. And that just levels up that reciprocity piece. And I feel like when when I've done that in my business in the past, it's always like led to deeper work and better solutions for both me and my clients and the growth. So I'm excited that people have an opportunity to work with you one-on-one and to go deep with you, and through that work to also have access to this incredible gift of your somatic tarot. And like you said, um, I feel like almost like super excited too to be like, and she's like exclusive now. And she is gonna be in the community um doing a workshop for us, which is gonna be super fun, where we're actually the women on the call are all gonna be pulling cards and reading for each other after kind of getting some ideas of how to do it. So it's gonna be super, super fun. I'm very excited to bring you back in to do that and to get to connect with all of them. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. So thank you again. I'm sure this will not be the last time. I see you all find something else that you're into.
SPEAKER_01I've got a Mary Poppins bag I can share.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love it. Thank you so much, Allison. We will look forward to seeing you in the workshop. For those of you that are wanting to join us in that workshop, make sure and go. You can text super easy stay or go community to 33777. That'll take you right over. We're gonna be releasing this episode with enough time that you should be able to go and do your interview process with Alex and get in so that you can be a part of that workshop with Allison when we do it in the next couple of months. Till then, my loves. Hope you have a beautiful week.