Welcome to the Stairgo podcast, where we're changing the dialogue around divorce so that no woman ever stays in her marriage out of fear. Get ready to dispel myths, learn life-changing tools, and build a solid foundation in yourself from which to make your decision. And now your host, me, Britta Joe. All right, y'all. We have such a special, special treat this week. As I had been kind of tipping off the last few episodes, mentioning this is finally the week where it's happening. I have Alison Alexander on the podcast today with me. I have been hoping to have guests coming in to the community, doing workshops, and then also getting to have them share their stories on the podcast. And Allison is going to be kicking this off with us today. So yay, Allison. I'm so glad you're here. I am going to, before I drop in with her, I got to play around today, kind of checking out her website, which by the way is gorgeous. I really love your design on that. She lives in Colorado and it just comes through in her website. But I wanted to read this really cute part on your about section just to give you all a taste for like the incredible renaissance woman that you are that you have your hand in all these different places and pieces. And I'm so excited to have like seen this because we're having you come into the community for breath work. But I'm like, ooh, there are definitely pieces in the future I might have to bring you back for other things as well. But it says, as a lifelong student of the human condition, Allison has degrees and certifications in women's studies, political science, library science, leadership, breath work, intuitive coaching, powerlifting, Pilates, CrossFit, Tarot, Inner Child Guidance, Human Design, Trauma-informed Space Holding, and more. Her life's work is supporting change makers around the globe in connecting to radical self-love, allowing their heart-led missions to take shape for the betterment of the greater community. Oh, Allison, what a powerhouse. So, hello, my love. I'm so glad to have you. So glad to be here. Thank you. Yeah, we, I don't even remember how I found you, but it was through breathwork, and I got to do a breathwork course with you. And it's been really special reaching out to you now. When we talked on the recent call, I was like, oh my God, your recent personal journey intersects so powerfully with what I do in my coaching as well, correct? Yeah, completely. And you didn't know it.
SPEAKER_01So that's amazing. Yeah. Life is that way.
SPEAKER_00It really was. And it's so special that in thinking about people I wanted to collaborate with, you were just one of the first names that came to mind. Getting to do that session with you had had enough of an impact that I was like, I want to work with her. I want to collaborate with her. So I'm so excited to get to let everybody share in your story, to get to hear you get to share it, as we talked about it before we started the episode. This is such a unique and special journey for you with considering divorce yourself and then ultimately making your decision. And I would love for you to just take us to the beginning. You said when we were first talking about it, you really started the journey you said in 2019 when you moved to Aspen, correct?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, that probably that makes as much sense as any to sit there.
SPEAKER_00And we can float. Yeah, I know you'll pull in pieces. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I think that I think 2019 is really when I really started to realize that something needed to change and started to really think that maybe the thing was my marriage. So in a in a real way, in a real sense.
SPEAKER_00When you first realized, okay, I think it's the marriage, what did that feel like for you in your in your body? Like was that overwhelming? Was that like this makes sense? Did you come from a background where you can make a decision to, you know, not have a marriage be forever?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, my my parents were divorced. So I mean, I I guess I had um a model of of that. So it wasn't like I had a model of, you know, we stick it out no matter what. That wasn't necessarily my thinking. However, I guess I would say that my parents' divorce was one that I very much did not want to replicate. And I guess as I continued to go and think about it in a real way, I thought this is not what I want to do. I don't want to do that to my child. But I think as far as the feeling in my body about the decision and when I had the clarity, it's interesting because as I sit and reflect back on that, it was not like it wasn't jarring. It was more of a like, oh, this this is wrong, this is out of alignment. And I guess the idea of being on the other side felt more peaceful than the idea of staying in the situation that I was in. So yeah. And I I think you know, there's there's things that got me to that place and to to getting there, so we can we can dig into that. Yes. But I think, yeah, I think ultimately when I made the choice of deciding to choose me, it was a feeling of just love and tenderness for myself, I guess.
SPEAKER_00It's one of the things I love that I'm most excited about in you getting to share your story is you making this point of when you made the decision for you. It felt like that contrast of there's more peace here than there is there. And I think that's a testament to all these pieces along the way in your journey, the way you facilitated your personal growth. You you making the point right before we got on. And you can maybe start us off with this where you said, you know, ultimately deciding whether or not to stay or go isn't about the other person, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Totally.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I think and in my process and and the deciding was there, I think maybe perhaps it started with the he's wrong. He this isn't he's not working, he's not doing the things that I want. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then there was just sort of a moment, and I can't really pinpoint when exactly it happened, but it was this isn't about him because whether I stay or whether I go, I have to be with me, right? Like the like no matter where you go, there you are. So I think that's the point. And I think, you know, we can maybe jump into why 2019 and why my move was so shifting for me. And and that is because when I moved to Colorado, when we made when I made the decision, when my family made the decision really to move from the Midwest to Aspen, I moved out here six months before my husband and my daughter did. And so I went from doing pretty much all of the caregiving for my daughter. He was working like 60 hours a week, always very, very busy and not super involved in the day-to-day. He's an interesting parent because he would often take my daughter and still does on independent vacations and they would spend this like independent time together in like larger chunks. But the day-to-day, it was all me a hundred percent. And then when we made the decision to make the move, I moved for six months on my own. And which, you know, I'm sure like that brings up it's interesting. I've had so many different reflections of people's experience of like I could never do that to oh my god, that sounds amazing. So I don't know, you know, everybody falls into different. So I don't know. Um for me, I was really excited about it. And and I think because I was alone during that time, I really was having to be faced with the well, there's nobody else around. If I'm miserable, like that's on me, or whatever the thing. So I just started that that time really helped me really understand that it it's you're always going to be with yourself. The other people can come and go, but you really, they're not the problem. You are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And that's one of the things that was when we were talking, and I was getting to hear more about your story that I found so fascinating is in many ways, you got to experience kind of like a go situation in a weird kind of microcosm way of being away from them for these six months. And I would love for you to talk more. I know you'd mentioned that it was like so much of your identity was stripped away. Like the things that you had, the way you thought of yourself. I know you were really you said you're really into fitness, and that was taken away. And you know, you moved when it was cold. It was just such a drastic change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I literally I have been reflecting a lot in preparing for this conversation. Just every single aspect of my life looks, I mean, there's nothing in my life that looks the same as it did pre-2019. Um truly. And so I went from living in a suburb of a big city, um, relatively so, um, and I moved to a rural ski town. I don't ski. That's probably important to that is oh my god. I cross-country ski now, but that is a newer development. I did not ski when or snowboard when I moved out to Aspen, but we were coming out here a lot and just got the sense when the first time I came here, I was like, this there's something here for me. This is where I'm supposed to be. It doesn't make any sense. And then the stars aligned several years after my first visit and got a job. They moved us, they paid for the move, and it just was like all these different things, like the red carpet just kind of rolled out. And so, like you said, everything was sort of stripped away from me. So when I moved here, I owned a CrossFit apparel business that had sort of stemmed from this really, I was deeply entrenched in the CrossFit community. I went to a pretty intense CrossFit gym with high-level competitors who were competing at like the international level and had a really amazing gym community. I had worked, I had known I'd been in, you know, where I lived for a long time. I knew many, many people was very well connected. And I moved to this place where I knew like maybe five people. Um wow. I didn't know, yeah, I didn't know very many people. I moved into my sister-in-law's parents' basement into their um, which was interesting because it was like living with your parents, but they weren't my parents. You know, I was not quite 40 yet, but how did I end up here living like I bet it was it was it was trippy um there and and so when I started trying to find my community, I was like, okay, well, I'll go to the gym. That's where I'll find my community. And I went to a couple different CrossFit gyms, and I was like, oh, these are not my people. These are no judgment, no, no disrespect. That everybody is different, like culture is different, intensity is different, all the things. I just recognized that that wasn't where I was gonna find my people. Yeah. And that's something sort of that I think I've always done well is recognize like, eh, not for me. I will do any. I think I told you before, I'll do anything twice. I will, because the first time you're always judging something. The second time you have a bit more of an understanding of what to expect, and you can be a bit more in the experience. So I gave multiple gyms several two times, and then I was like, eh, not it. And I just started asking around and I decided, okay, well, if you're in a new place, like you gotta find new stuff to do. And I just started to really lean in because I was on my own. Um, had more time on my hands. My daughter was in the second grade at the time. So I really hadn't, to your point, like going back to the question, I hadn't been Allison, just Allison, without having to worry about like when pickup was, what lunches had to be activities, all the things. Like I really had just a this glorious expanse of time. And I just started to lean into it. Um, I also didn't have my husband around all the time. So that also opened up a lot of space.
SPEAKER_00And I love what you said of, you know, you were Allison again. Like you're it's so common for us as women that once we get married, our identities become, you know, okay, I'm now the wife, or once we have children, now I'm the mother. And I that's why I was so excited to have you share your story because you got to like ahead of time kind of experience this, oh my God, rediscovery of yourself while still being married, but having that distance and that separation that, like you said, gave you space and time that for a lot of women we don't see again until our kids leave the home. And that's why there's like you know, the common trope of the midlife crisis, like you finally have space to actually feel what you're feeling. And so you when you start exploring, how did you overcome that I don't know about you, but sometimes going into a new space that fear? I notice this a lot with women who, you know, maybe they have made the decision to go, overcoming those feelings of maybe loneliness, you know, your support system's gone. How do you propel yourself into finding the new support system? Such a good question.
SPEAKER_01Um well, I one of the things I think that you from my bio from my website um that you didn't read is that um I grew up in a military family. So I moved constantly as a child. And so perhaps just I think I can acknowledge and call and kind of name like I'm probably have a bit more of an ability just because I've been doing it for so long to just kind of make new friends or to try new things. And I think you know, that's a muscle. I I think you have to practice that. I think that even, and I can say, even with the experience that I have, that's not to say that I walk into every new experience and like, hello, here I am. Like that is that's not it. Definitely um sort of observe first and then just kind of go. But I think, you know, just that reminder that nobody cares. Like nobody's looking at you. Everyone is so much more worried about themselves. Um, we all are in our own little world thinking everybody's watching. Like, no, nobody's watching, nobody cares. Unless I think sometimes I think people are watching like admiration. I think that happens more than we think. They're less often looking out of a place of like, oh, what is she doing? I just I and if so, those aren't good, those aren't your people, anyways. Who cares?
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00I know this is one of the things I love about you too. The way you're just like, not for me, you know, you're you're really able to reflect on the internal experience. So what was the the tipping point, like the moment where you found something that really started to crack you open in this new space?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So um, as I said, I wasn't really finding my community and moving my body is such an important part of my being. Yes, I love stillness and I love breath, but that and meditation and all of those things, but that sort of kind of found those through the back door. Um and so I love moving my body. And so I just asked, I just kept asking around. I'm like, is there something I could do? And this woman that I worked with said, Oh, you should try this hip-hop yoga class. And I was like, Okay, not it, I don't do yoga, but like hip-hop yoga could be cool. Okay, I'll try it. I have space in my, I don't have anything going on. So I found my way to this quote unquote hip-hop yoga class, and like 10 minutes into it, we're like twerking on the ground, and I was like, What? I I've not done a lot of yoga, but this is this is not what I thought yoga was. And it was very clear, and like so just continued with the class, and yeah, there were yoga elements, and yeah, there was hip hop, but there was also like African drum, there was just so much happening. It was just a whole sensory experience in a dark room. And I left and I was like, what in the world just happened? Just happened. What just happened? But like I said, I'll try anything twice. And what I did know was I didn't hate it. I was like, I don't know what that was. I didn't hate it, but that was not hip hop yoga. Um I told my friend, I was like, I I don't know that I'd call that hip-hop yoga. And she's like, Oh, I'd actually never been. Someone just told me about it. I was like, well, just don't advertise it as that. That's not what it's like. It's not that, it's not that don't know what it is. I'll get back to you, but it's not that. And so then I went back the following Friday, and here we are, 10 minutes into class, and I find myself crying. I was just like twerking and crying. It's an interesting combo, but it's I'm telling you what happens. You'll just have to trust me. Um, and I went in that hour long class. I cried, I laughed, and I just felt in my body in a way that I hadn't in so so long. I was fully present, and it just felt I felt like 20-year-old me at a club, like dancing in the way that you wanted to, without anyone touching you or having like, you know, alcohol involved or whatever. I was just fully like in that free joy dance and it felt incredible. And I left that class thinking, still don't know what it is, but I'm gonna do that every Friday. Wow. And it became a place where I would go to the class and I would dance and cry and all the things, and then I would leave and I just would journal or would go on a hike or would do something, and I just started to think about this is all new. Like, how how how do you want to be? I felt like that hour I was coming home to myself in a way that I hadn't in so so long. And felt like, okay, how do I so I just started to like pay attention. What are the other women who do this kind of thing? What are they doing? I found I found a somatic therapist who I f later found out also did the same class that I was taking just on a different day. Like I just started to think about it. Tap in, tap in and got really curious. Like, I don't, and then started to really think about like and started because I I'm uh just a nerdy person and obsessed with understanding things. Started reading books like The Body Keeps a Score and Ah yes, you know, just really started to get really curious. I started reading books about pleasure. I started reading books about just getting into the body and was like, oh, I've always been a very physical person, but in an output-focused way, not in a not in a way that it was connected to internal experience. Internally, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes, like fitness, but in this Yes.
SPEAKER_01I was very focused on this like masculine form of fitness. Yes. And and what I found was this intuitive part in my body that's very that was very primal and just started to really tap into that. And what I found was like just magic to start, I just started to feel like I literally started to feel like a different person and not very long of a time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love the word you used of primal, because as you're sharing, I'm I what the theme that just keeps coming through is how your journey, when you talked about like being called to Aspen and it not making sense, right? I mean, when you said you didn't ski and you moved to Aspen, I was like I don't understand. But this primal soul call feeling that draws you there to this exact location. I don't know about you, but I've never heard of hip hop yoga either. I think this must be this like magic little offering, this gift that was waiting for you there. And then you finding it and having enough, just enough awareness to go, ooh, there's something here for me that's different. I don't know what it is. And that's I I just have to say that is a huge piece of finding your way through the journey is like you said, being willing to try things at least twice, right? Not just out and out rejecting it because ooh, it's different or it makes me feel weird, or I don't know, it's kind of Awkward and instead going, there's something here, I don't know what it is yet, but I'm gonna get curious and drop in. So I would love to hear. So you're having this like awakening happening, you're away from your husband and your daughter. What starts to go through your head around that? Like, are you just able to completely remove yourself for these six months just on this journey? Or are you also thinking, oh my goodness, you know, I'm changing?
SPEAKER_01Such a good question. Again, I think I am probably someone who is primed and has a lot of experience with out of sight, out of mind, like be where you are, um, because of I think like childhood survival. That thing's not here. Let's just move forward. So I think there was that happening. But then I would have conversations with my husband. I would have conversations um what I would very I just started to notice again, like I had this very I am a very body aware person. And I started to notice my body would shift when I would talk to him. Like my shoulders would clench in, like I like I would start to protect my heart, I would start to just feel anxiety come up. And I just started to notice, oh, I feel so much better when I'm not in contact with this person in the times when I'm not talking to this person. And I and I tried to say, you know, because he was having his own experience. Like, and I and I like he was having his own, you know, he did jump in and did do the things, like, which, you know, great, that's amazing. And he was also having his own sort of struggle with that while I was having my own. So I just, you know, I can hold space for the fact that like he was having his own experience. But when I would try and say, here's what I'm thinking, I've started therapy, like what I would say was, I really want this to be a new beginning for us. I said, I know I'm different and I am building a different life here for myself. And I don't want to have like, you know, as the months went on, like the conversation was like, I don't want to go back into old patterns. Like I want to continue having, I just felt like, you know, for those of us who have had babies, like it felt like I was nurturing an infant. And like the most important thing I could do was protect that very precious, fragile connection with yourself. Yeah. And I just felt very, again, it was like a primal, like, no, you're not gonna cross this. Like that just became and the as the days went on, that kind of strengthened. And when I would say, you know, I think when you get here, we should, you know, go to therapy or address some of these issues, because they were all starting to come to the surface. Because again, when you have space that you're not because you're not in the day-to-day, the robotics, survival. I was like, okay, here's all the things that I would really like us to address. Like, how do we find more balance where it's not just me doing all the work or you doing all the work? How do we find more of like the flow where we're each sort of living in our gifts, right? And he had a lot of resistance to that. And that was not something that he um was super open to. Um, and it in a very like clear way. It was like, we're not, we're not the problem. You know, you're just having this like freestyle life, like blah, blah, blah. We're not, you know, I'm not the problem. We don't need to, we don't need to work on this. We were fine. And I started to realize very clearly, no, we were not fine. I had just shut down.
SPEAKER_00Oh my goodness, yes. This this moment of like your partner thinking everything was great, everything was fine, it wasn't a problem. And the moment where you realize it was only because I was letting myself die inside to keep to keep this normal. Oh my God. I just my heart, I was just like, I feel like so many women on this call will relate to that exact experience. It's one of the things I see the most is women coming forward and saying, like, I'm not doing well, this is not a fit, and this refrain from their partners typically of it's great, it's fine, it's been great. Why are you changing it now? It hasn't been that bad. Not understanding because we didn't understand, honestly, right? Just like you, how much this part that now you can't live without, right? Once you found it, it's like, oh my God, this is I was barely awake previously. I was going through life sleepwalking. I can't leave this now.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, you can't really unsee it, you know, or I couldn't. I mean, maybe I couldn't unsee the things. And it was very clear that no, I'm not going back. And then with time and space, I started to understand sort of what you're talking about. This, like, why does he think everything's fine? And I was, and like, as we said, I have a degree in women's studies. I have been thinking about the patriarchy and all of these things, and then like the rude awakening of, oh my God, I'm actually re-invent. Me, it's me.
SPEAKER_00I'm the it was, it was like, yes, wait waking up to like, oh wait, I am a part of it. It is part of me. I remember thinking uh having that same res realization when I was like, oh, my ex-husband and I, when we got married, I had told we both had said we don't want our parents' marriages. And then the moment I woke up to like, oh my fuck, we have our parents' marriages.
SPEAKER_01Like, how did that happen? Totally. And, you know, I think it's you get into what you have to do to survive and not from that, like, it doesn't even necessarily have to be like I think sometimes we think survive in this, like, you know, just like horrible way. But I do think there's a lot of like subconscious, like, this is programming that has to sort of be undone, and you have to sort of be able to regulate enough. And I realized that the space to be by myself allowed me to regulate my nervous. It gave me the space to regulate. And that's how I was able to start thinking about thriving and not just getting through the next day or the next hour.
SPEAKER_00Because that is really the heart of it, I think, when when we say surviving is you are in fight or flight, complete dysregulation and disconnected from your body's knowing, which most of us learned in childhood and then just carried up and through college, getting married, having children. So total like new world, right? When you started dropping into the body and accessing even deeper. Oh, I love your puppy. She's like, Amen. Yes. So you're waking up to this new world of regulation. I love when you said like regulation in the body, movement in the body. I love when you said pleasure in the body, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And as you're doing this, you're trying to convey that. Sounds like you were communicating a lot, trying to be clear about what was needed. What did you guys work out for when he finally did come to Colorado?
SPEAKER_01We didn't actually figure that out. I mean, in that, in that it was truly an I it became like him just being very frustrated, feeling a lot of resentment about having to do the move by himself, come like the final trip when he brought my daughter and like emptied our house, which um wasn't my like it doesn't matter. It wasn't my wasn't my issue. I couldn't um I couldn't be there, which was part of the agreement, right? And as you're just sort of moving through this, I was like, no, this is this is not it. This is not working. And he said repeatedly he was not willing to go to therapy or counseling. And so um I did what perhaps might seem a little unhinged to some. Um, but I I can't wait, tell me more. Um, I found so he had found a place for us to live that was not my sister-in-law's parents' basement, and was like, here's where we're gonna live. And I was like, well, that's really far from where I've kind of started to build my life. You're not even listening to where I want to live. And I'm the one who's been here for six months. And so I was like, you know what? I don't think I want to live with him. And I started looking for my own place and didn't just didn't mean tell him. Um and anyone who knows anything about the the Aspen real estate market, that was a small miracle that I just happened to find a place. And then I decided that nothing was gonna work. So I actually got a lawyer and filed for divorce. And I served him with divorce papers the day that the U-Haul left. Um, I stayed one night in the apartment that he or in the place that he had gotten. And the next morning I said, just so you know, you're gonna be served in about an hour. And he was like, What are you talking about? And I was like, Well, you said you weren't gonna do these things, and I'm not going to sacrifice and show my daughter that this is an okay way to live. So if you're you've you've set your boundary, you're saying you're not gonna go to therapy, you're not gonna invest in doing the work, and I'm saying I'm not going to live in a home that I wouldn't want my daughter to be living in. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And he just completely I don't even know how to describe sort of what happened to his like being. And then he said something that I think was really shocking to me, and that was that was really brave of you. That must have been really hard. And I oh wow. And I'm just standing there, like, yeah, it was. It was really brave and it was really hard, but this is what needs to happen. And he was like, Are you sure? And I said, if you're sure that what you're saying, you're not gonna invest in the work, then yes, I am sure. You have said, I I'm now holding my boundary, I'm setting my boundary and I'm holding my boundary. Yeah. And then I left. And then he got served an hour later. And then later that day, he actually called me to thank me. Um wow, which was wild. And I was like, What? He's like, I just I'm not asking you to change your mind. I just want to say thank you because I needed I realized that you have a lot of great points and that I wasn't the person that you deserve. And wow, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Wow. I know you obviously I'm gonna come back to this word that you used, which we were where you were like unhinged. I completely disagree, you know, but in my viewpoint, I think once again, this is just the programming we have received as women of you know, you always need to give second chance, second, third, fourth, fiftiet chances. You need to always have your focus be on reconciliation and staying together versus what I what I see is just a very healthy, okay. I've communicated clearly what I need, what I need to thrive in my life. You have told me clearly you aren't on board with that. And so this isn't a fit anymore. And it's it's instead of, you know, I want to totally reframe that by being like, hell yes, to a woman who clearly, you know, I'm not fucking around. This is yeah, versus the trauma that would have happened, I think, a little bit more if you had just imagine, right? Just come back. Now this is all happening in front of your daughter. And I know we what we talk about, you guys actually did end up moving together to kind of ease that transition for her for a while. Um, but it's just so it's such a beautiful, this is one of the things I love the most about your story, just such a powerful, beautiful example of the right that you have as a human being who knows what's right for you to communicate that with your partner. And if you have a partner that's just like, I don't care, I like the way things were, I need you to get back in the box so I can feel good. Yeah, having the ovaries to say, okay, then I am getting a place. And I loved you mentioning the miracle of you finding that place because once again, that feels like when you follow your soul calls, when you trust yourself and you don't abandon yourself to make other people happy, the universe opens ways for that to be possible.
SPEAKER_011000%. And I've seen that over and over again. When you set the clear no, the yeses start to just like like the uh the red carpet just totally rolls out. Um yeah, it's totally, yeah. It just um I didn't feel it was unhinged, but I I know that when I told people, they were like, wow, wow. Like so maybe maybe it's not unhinged, maybe it's just like fully in my power. Like I just fall send. I'm just doing it.
SPEAKER_00And I I do love the point you just pointed out with that is that women that are fully in their power are often considered unhinged in our that is that is how our culture, the patriarchy marginalizes us by making it seem like those women are crazy. No, they're just not doing what you want them to do, and you don't like that.
SPEAKER_01100. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So tell me what happened after that, right? So he he tells you, thank you for taking care of your or you know, for being brave to do that. I know that was hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, so as I said, you know, we just moved our daughter across the country, and so um a couple days passed, and he um we went out, he's like, would can we go? You know, you can you don't have to change your mind, but can we just go have dinner? And so we went to have dinner, and in the conversation, he shared that um you know he was starting his own personal help journey and working on himself and recognized several different things that Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_00Wait, yeah, so so now he is going to start on his can we all just let's just take a moment to notice because this is what I see often. Just I this is kind of the way it works right now, where uh for men who have gotten so many perks from patriarchy, but it is very difficult for them to want to self-initiate that change if they can get away with things just going back. And sometimes it really is the like until their back is against the wall, yeah, the change just doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, and so he and and he made the point of, hey, we've just moved to this place. Our daughter would really, you know, she's expecting us to live together. This is a lot of change on her. So yeah, we started to have conversations about how could we um each be comfortable with coming together, not necessarily as a getting back together, but how could we start to function as a family, recognizing that we still believed that this change, that this moving to Colorado was right for all of us, but that perhaps, you know, maybe we needed to be a family in a different way. And so setting up, you know, what would make me comfortable? We set up a rule that, you know, anytime I was feeling like he needed to go, it was my place. Like I was the only one on the lease. He had to go, taking, you know, him doing a fair number of weekend trips and things like that. So I just had a lot of space and then also um being committed to personal work on ourselves and not being able to like to deviate from that. That had to be something that he continued to be committed to.
SPEAKER_00Um I have to I am like super curious about this question. Yeah so you know, in the conversations, the the conversation being had is that we're not getting back together. Do you think he secretly was hoping that you would change your mind? I mean, 100%. I mean, 100%. Yeah, I le Okay, good. Because I love you making that clear. Because I feel like that is so many women have that experience, right?
SPEAKER_01Of course, I think that that was his intention. And I said that that wasn't something that I was open to. And to be honest with you, for really about you know, I until maybe January of 2020, we were cohabitating with no, with me having no interest in being back together with him. We were just spending time together. Sort of he was finding his rhythm of being in a new place, finding his own, you know, we were focused on our daughter and things like that. And and I really did see a shift in him. And you know, around January of 2020, I started to think like, okay, I this is more of the type of person I would want to have a relationship with, and started to kind of think about like, okay, maybe this could work. And, you know, we decided to sort of table the divorce, and he was like, you know, we can we can come back to that at any point. Like it, we can come back to that at any point. Um it we just don't have to do that right now if if it's not feeling a hundred percent. And quite frankly, like as he started to change, I wasn't totally ready to say a hundred percent. Um there was still part of me that was very aware, um, but not feeling a hundred percent like either way. And again, I started to I or I guess I haven't said this before, but I really started to find new love for him. Like I started to find like a new, we started to operate in ways that um, and I've said this to my friends, you know, that I knew before the move, and he wouldn't actually recognize our marriage or our relationship and because we're just different people. And we've he became a better person. He started to do some of the things that I had done, and we just started to find like a better balance with each other in a lot of ways, and that was really wonderful and really grateful for that.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I mean, it's such a test Yeah, and this is where we'll go, right? But that's why I I'm so obsessed with your journey because it just it is the epitome of the work that my women do in figuring out whether you want to stay or go. It's so much about this piece of you know, discovering yourself, reconnecting with that, those so-calls, that primal life force within you. And then you have a partner who's not willing to do the work. Then, because you hold a boundary, he's like, okay, I am gonna do the work. And sure enough, through him, lo and behold, doing his own work, new possibilities open. And you see a different side to this person and you do create something new. And this is where I want you to take us to where it went from there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think what we both, you know, so 2020, we started. I think during COVID, actually, I was really like our that like whole 2020 year, I think for us was really transformational as a family. Like we were just all really doing our things and starting to find out who we were, committed to our work. And then I think as you know, as things do, um, life starts to go on, as people start to skip the therapy, skip the whatever, skip the thing. And then those things start to, and then you start to be aware of like, oh, that's coming back. Like that's oh, I'm seeing that again. Or and then also in some cases, it was just recognizing, like, oh, I'm just growing beyond this person. Like I'm just I I've described sometimes the experience of I don't I don't ski, but I hike a lot, and that's the other thing that you can do here. So what I feel, what I often say is that I kind of felt like I was on a hike with someone who was constantly stopping for snacks and constantly wanting to take breaks, and I was waiting for them and like, oh my God. And I'm he would be like, Okay, we're we're ready, I'm ready, I'm I'm hydrated, blah, blah, blah. I'll start walking again. But I'm still ahead of you and I'm still having to stop and look back and still have to like sort of, and I think um, you know, just over time, we I just started to have more and more of a realization of, oh, we're just on different paths, like we're just this is exhausting. Different speeds, different, different trajectories. Like I can, I can hold, I started to realize, like, oh, he is he's made progress. And also I'm still not feeling like my needs are all being met. Like my end started. Um, and a couple of things happened just sort of as time went on, where I just was like, huh, I don't hate him anymore. Which, like, in truth, I can say when that person who filed for divorce and found that apartment on my own was fueled by like setting a boundary, burn it down, like you're wrong, I'm right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And what I started to notice was this discomfort. that was coming from a this isn't as bad as it was, but it's not as good as it can be. And I just that voice just started, it just got louder and louder and louder.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well what did that feel like in your body when you start because that is that is such a a tough moment. You thought it was going to end, you've reinvested. And I love the way you reinvested even you had so many like beautiful boundaries around it. But like you kind of just were surprised to like, oh, maybe I could have feelings for this person again. And then the ultimate moment of realizing it's still not going to be this person.
SPEAKER_01I ultimately had the feeling like full clarity actually in a breath work journey. There were just a couple things that had happened and I don't need to go into them but something had really kind of happened and I was like I'm just a friend of mine was hosting a circle and I was like I'm going to go to her circle and it very clearly in the in the practice I heard I love you and you have to die. And that was related to my marriage and it was that something had to die in order for the things that I loved being my husband being me like and my daughter like something had to die so that more could be born. And it was just so in my body and when I felt like when that came through it was like full body like I don't know I just felt like I don't know I don't really know how to explain like it was just like a full openness of uh okay and I let and I got up and I was like well that has to happen. I don't know how that's gonna happen but that's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00Who yeah yeah that no that knowing is so the undeniable knowing like when you said earlier yeah of being awake and where you can't go back to sleep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah um and again it was from a place of a much different place you know here we are you know our divorce was finalized last week actually um oh my goodness yeah so like almost you know five and a half years from the initial start of this journey I was we were able to lovingly set down what was in a very different way than we were able than we would have had we walked away in 2019 and that had just been that so yeah and I want to make the key differentiation there that the what what made that possible was you being honest about what you needed and setting a boundary and him leaning in to do his own work.
SPEAKER_00100% of experiences of you know the way different women come to considering divorce whether they stay whether they go and yours having those multiple layers right that you did have a partner who actually was like okay whoa I got some stuff to work on can we find a new way to do this? Can we find a place to meet in the middle? And because of that oh now we got a whole different journey that we get to go on. And a journey that ultimately it sounds like led you guys to you knowing deep down this was not like tell me a little bit more about that piece of you saying like it's good but it's not what it could be.
SPEAKER_01Um I started to really lean in more and more to what does self-love look like what does choosing love for yourself and having that be the essential point to start from having other relationships. If I do not fully if I do not love myself completely like um and that means not more than like we like I said love is more than care. Love is authenticity love is respect love is a choice to support the growth of something like it is not yes when I say I love you it is not because I want you to be something like I love your potential I love how you're being in this moment it means I love you even when you are doing something that does not necessarily I wouldn't do or I wouldn't choose or isn't for me like and so when I really just started to really get really rebellious in my feeling of of what is self-love it became abundantly clear that honoring myself could not exist in the same experience of me making myself smaller or still trying to even though he has grown so many ways like my ex-husband is a wonderful human being like I love him dearly and I and I say that from like a genuine I I love the shit out of that man and also he is not my person. Yeah and to be able to say like oh the way that you're loving me doesn't feel like love and ultimately some of the ways that he knows how to love for you know just that's just his way and if he chooses to do the work at some point incredible like some very lucky woman will benefit from that. And also I think he loves me to the best of his ability and I can say you love the best of your ability and that is not enough or that not enough my needs are not being made my needs are not being that and that's ultimately like a really hard but true thing that I felt and I you can't unsee that right or I couldn't maybe some people can I don't know yeah I I love the complexity of what you are sharing which is so many women um I think you think especially if you're coming to a divorce where you don't hate that other person I I I have women who are like oh I wish she would hit me or I wish she would have an affair just so I could like justify leaving.
SPEAKER_00This is one of the hardest choices to make is when you're leaving something good because you can feel that there is something more that is more aligned that really would be the highest expression of love and connection for you. And it's just not possible with this person. Not because anybody's bad not because anybody is the villain but it just is what it is.
SPEAKER_01So yeah tell me I think what what came to me when you were just talking was um we and we talked more we talked a little bit about this is just um being selfish and this idea of being selfish. And I have said multiple times I've said it to to him like I have to be selfish. But ultimately I think it's selfishness gets a bad rap because I think we have to like we have we have to take care of ourselves. And again when I I think back to just my initial thought in 2019 of I don't want this to be modeled for my daughter like in my life I have done so many things since I became a mother to give my daughter a better to give my daughter a life that I did not have to set her to give her access to opportunities and to all these things and I think a lot of women do that but they stop short of doing that in their relationship. And I when I really sat with it I was like would I want would I want this to be the biggest expression of love that she could experience no no I wouldn't I would want her to have a little bit more I would want her to have a little bit more and and anyone who has given their child something that they didn't have knows how confronting that is like it is hard to give your child something like having my daughter have a dad who is super engaged is triggering as hell. Like it is triggering as hell because it activates all the parts of me that are like oh I didn't have that I didn't have that and so it's just another layer of giving your child something that you didn't have and to do that I have to do I have to take care of myself and I want to model that in art and I know that and I have seen evidence of this that the more I do that for me the more she thrives and the more like she says things and does things and I'm like yes protect her piece like yes do that like all the things I and I love it. And but that is that is hard and that is where I think in my experience a lot of people kind of stop short like well every you can have the job you can have the things but settle in your relationship because it's comfortable or settle in this that's been modeled.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely and it goes back to like you said the word I think selfishness for women because we have been so overprogrammed to take care of everybody else to always be seeking reconciliation to be prioritizing relationships with others over our relationship with ourself that when you say you know I have to be selfish that is a an acknowledgement of like the people who really thrive in the world in understand this baseline point of like I have to have me or we don't have anything.
SPEAKER_01100% yeah and it's not just putting on the oxygen mask like it's not just the simple things like it is actually like recognizing how do I feel not just beyond my base needs are being met. How do I actually thrive because if I'm not thriving you can't thrive like truly if I'm in survival you're also by default going to be into survival.
SPEAKER_00Like I just yeah I believe and this is this is where we get to the like actually paying attention to how does it feel then how does it look so many of us have these marriages these lives that look like we are functioning so well and yet down underneath what are our children actually feeling from us they're feeling our overwhelm our fatigue our disconnection it may look pretty but it does it actually feel good yeah so I would love to hear of course you're like so congratulations divorce finalized last week like momentous big I remember mine just felt like oh my God okay you know we've reached a a point tell me a little bit about things peeking over the horizon right things that have been calling to you now with the kind of I know in some ways uh when a divorce finalizes it at least for me it doesn't feel necessarily like a complete ending because there's so much going into that over time, right? And you still have an entire relationship with this person. But I would love to hear just looking forward for you like what are you most excited about now? Oh my goodness so many things.
SPEAKER_01Um so many things I don't know I think one of the I think I'll just start with like one of the things last summer when we like moved out of our family home together and we're I was living separate, I went to a party for the first time by myself and this was kind of like a party that he and I had gone to in the past a social circle that um I'm a part of and I was feeling a lot of feelings about going by myself to this event like oh I'm gonna be by myself like there's gonna be a lot of people I know um and the best part was that I got to leave when I wanted to like and that was a game changer. So I was at this party and actually like it was fine. Like there were a couple like I felt a you know like we talked about at the beginning like you think people are looking at you no one no one cared everyone was worried about like running into the next most important person there. Um amazing and then I went and I went and I got a sparkling water from the bar. I came back to sort of where I was standing and then I just had this moment of I don't want to be here anymore. And so I put my drink down on the table and I didn't say goodbye to anyone I walked to the valet and I was like this is amazing. I didn't have to talk to anybody I just yes and then the best thing happened the valet this adorable high school sweet boy was like ma'am you look beautiful tonight. I hope you had a great time and I was like I did I had a great time and now I'm gonna go home and it was this moment and so so I look forward to being able to just sort of operate on my like leave parties when I'm done like just not having to sort of for this moment of being able to choose in any given moment this feels right this doesn't feel right and then to learn what that really looks like for me in this new version.
SPEAKER_00And to have the the freedom to not to not write that's the piece of being in constant relationship with others is you're always having to check in with are you okay? Is this okay? Are we gonna, you know so you're right this is such a luxury you're helping me also remember the the beautiful and I mean by luxury right it's it's this human right that we seem to lose as women when we prioritize everybody else over ourselves of the simple act of saying I don't want to be here right now or I want to leave and letting yourself do what you want when you want without having to make any excuses.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I look forward to you know I've just gotten my daughter will tell you that she likes us better separate. Like my she will tell us she will tell you that she prefers the way that I parent when it's just or our time when I'm just her and she prefers being with just her dad. And I look forward to deepening my relationship with her because I've already seen that happening like we have such a just rich and different relationship when it's just the two of us. And then I look forward to her being able to have that rich and different relationship with her dad. And then also this this opportunity to find a different way to be a family again like you know my parents could not be in the same room together until just a couple years ago. And I know how hard that was for me as a kid to like be at events and like have to look in two different parts of the auditorium for my parents right that was not something we got our divorce was finalized on Wednesday two hours later we were sitting next to each other in the bleachers at my daughter's basketball game. And so and it wasn't from a place of we have to be here it's like oh we can actually share so I'm really looking forward to just this opportunity for us both to really discover um how to be how to live in the best version of ourselves and then to see what is possible with you know when we're given the full space to to grow without constriction of our previous relationship structure.
SPEAKER_00And such a testament to both of you I I want to say you know that is unique to you and him being able to grow through this and navigate and find and create new realities together. You know, for so many people it it it it can't be that because you have a partner on the other side that just cannot let go of it needing to look a certain way or needing to play the victim you know once you leave so wow that is what a gift to your daughter from the two of you yeah I feel really grateful.
SPEAKER_01And I also feel like what's important to recognize is that that would not have been possible had I not fully stepped into my power. Right like that you can't you can't half ass that and then want your partner like that had I just been kind of wishy washy or whatever like he would not have he would not have done I wouldn't have created the space for him to show up in the way that he is because I wouldn't have been showing up as my authentic self.
SPEAKER_00And a hundred percent Allison that I that is what I love like one of the pinnacle moments of your journey is that you had this space you you figured out this connection you were like I am not letting go of this and when push came to shove you pushed you shoved you were like I am it's I'm not backing down you're not going to just you know use the typical patriarchal male well I'm not doing that and I'm just gonna let you move back in with me. No, I'm drawing a line and that in this instance shocked him enough to open a different pathway for the two of you. And I am curious do you feel like he has become a better dad through this experience?
SPEAKER_01100% I mean he yeah like I I I feel like we I feel I have said this to many people I will say this to the end of time I feel like I had my daughter with the best possible co-parent but I had to we sort of had to go through this experience of figuring out how to best be that that parent and that has meant like me letting go of some of the traditional mom roles. He really oh my God that man loves to socialize with all the parents of all the kids and he loves no blessings. That is not my jam like but he loves it. And so me getting out of the way to allow him to try some of the things that like would be normally gender gender stereotyped stereotyped like you know um like literally when I moved to Aspen and left him I gave him like three phone numbers of moms. I was like hey you can call these women if there's an emergency and that was it.
SPEAKER_00I didn't make dinners and put them in the freezer so he would have them like it was just a full on like hands up best wishes buddy and trusted that I married an adult oh my god that line and then he had to do it wow wow and so this is a theme I've seen too like in my uh with my ex-husband post divorce just seeing how much once again the whole like I was part of the problem of through my own patriarchal over caretaking tendencies he had not had to be an adult beyond like going to work and making money right like he didn't have to be an adult in making the meals and taking care of the kids and now same thing five years post divorce I'm like wow he can now take care of the kids on his own he shows up for their lives he can get them to stuff he knows where to take them he knows their piano teachers he knows it's like such and and I'm so grateful now looking at that and I feel the same way for your daughter that she is getting to grow up that my boys are getting to grow up seeing these roles of a mother and a father you know instead of what what what we were showing them when we were married and doing the traditional gender rolled marriage that we just had fallen into because you you didn't see anything else growing up 100% and ways that like also what I see sometimes is with women or when I look at I'm like how is that you need to be needed like you need like how what is it serving you to have to do all those things you know that's the other piece of that is like what is that what is that serving like making him helpless like so you have to do the thing because that's ultimately really what you're doing. Yes well that's that codependent piece and I loved when you said the deeper work that you have to do of not only did you say you know I think what I kind of want to close out this the episode highlighting most about you Alison that I admire so deeply is you took this opportunity from the universe in moving right you you took this leap and you didn't just sit around you went and you found more of yourself. And that seems to be a a key part of you when you talk about that hiking right and that like you want to go you want to see the the world you want to experience your life and you sounds like you like to do it at a little bit of a faster speed than most I can totally relate like I grow and change so much in one month that that's not a speed that very many partners can keep up with and instead of doing what we've been trained to do right which is I need to slow down I need to just completely you know accept that I'm not gonna get to see the things I want to see because Because this person wants to get snacks all the time. Realizing and being like, I've got places to be, I've got things I want to see, and I'm gonna speak up for those and I'm gonna love myself enough to not abandon those dreams to keep the relationship. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and I I just think it's a daily commitment, like it's just a constant commitment. And there's nothing, and also when those moments of like, am I am I crazy? Is this wrong? Like just recognizing like taking the moments, doing the breath work, doing whatever the thing is that you do to just like check in with yourself and go inward. And I continue to be affirmed, like, nope, you're not crazy. You're just you're on your own journey and it's not for everybody, and that doesn't make it wrong. Um yes, yeah. If it's guided by love, truly, and it's expensive, then then it's right. And so often we're moving from fear of staying safe, doing the thing, or whatever. Like, and I just constantly am just checking in, like, okay, is this fear or is this love? And if it's love, keep going.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh my goodness, Allison. What a beautiful last line for us. This has been a just a huge gift to share with my community. Um, I have to say, I am so stoked. So we're gonna be dropping this episode actually tomorrow, which is amazing. And then I know in a couple weeks after that, you are gonna be leading your own group breath work session for us in the workshop. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I can't wait.
SPEAKER_00I'm very much looking forward to it.
SPEAKER_01It's so helpful for me. So I love sharing breath and dropping in. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and what a gift. I mean, you I'm definitely gonna have to have you in the community again in other areas of like human design. We didn't even touch on that. Tarot, all of my women in the community are obsessed with tarot right now with my best friend Quinn doing readings. So yeah, we will be so delighted to have you in the workshop, y'all. Um, for those of you that have been considering joining the community, this is an amazing time to do it before we get to this workshop. It's gonna be on the 21st. So if you've been considering, go apply so that we can get you in so that you'll be able to be with Allison on that call. Allison, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, thank you. This was so it's great to just travel back the road, um, especially, you know, where I am in this moment and just to think about the journey. So thank you for the opportunity. Of course, of course.
SPEAKER_00All right, y'all. Hold up, don't get off yet. Um, I had to pop back on because I realized after that incredible recording with Allison, I did not get a chance to direct you guys to her website. We're gonna be linking this in the show notes. I cannot say enough, y'all, how amazing she is. And especially as I am, you know, collaborating with people in the future, I want you guys to be noticing because yes, I am a coach. Yes, you can work with me, but I want this also to be a space where I am exposing you to other coaches, other practitioners, women that may be able to help you in ways that I can't. And I think Allison is one of those people. Um, so I wanted to just mention that she also, not only does she do breath work sessions, she also does tarot readings. Like, how fucking cool is that? I am so obsessed. I like secretly wish I was better at reading tarot, but thankfully, you know, Quinn is super good at it. So I just always go to Quinn. But how amazing to have somebody else um that I can recommend to be going to for those. Those are just so helpful when you're kind of looking for extra inspiration, something to kind of jolt and you know, give you some outside perspective that hopefully can move you forward. And then also she does her own intuitive coaching. So if you're listening to her, something sparked inside you and you're like, oh my God, I love this human. I love the way this human speaks, I love the way this human moves, I love the things she's talking about. You might consider going and reaching out to her and seeing if that's a fit. I, you know, I'm so passionate about you guys finding, you know, the resource, the person, the book, the technique that gets those breakthroughs for you. So can't recommend going and um looking at her offerings enough. Also, you know, if you loved hearing from her, I am on her list. So I get her regular um broadcasts that get sent out. Consider reaching out to her through Instagram if you want to get on that. And in celebration of this, you know, what for me is a really momentous, exciting moment of having my first big collaboration in the community and getting to host somebody that uh, yeah, that's gonna be actually doing a workshop. We have introduced a new keyword that you can be using to text to our number, the 3377. Um, it's gonna be stay or go community. And why I love this is because in texting that word to the 33777, it will take you directly to the landing page for the community where you can read up on it more and where you can ultimately sign up and start the application process. Not only do we have Allison doing the breathwork workshop this month, which is going to be so incredibly powerful to have all of these women in the community on that call together doing breath work at the same time. Like, ah, how fucking magical. But um I actually was on a call this morning with another wonderful collaboration that I'm building out for March. So we have just amazing, beautiful things um building, growing, coming down the pipeline in the community. So if it's been calling to you for a while, I highly recommend um texting stay or go community. That's S-T-A-Y-O-R-G-O community, all one word, 23377, and starting that application process. You want to start it now so that me and my assistant can review it and get back to you and get you onboarded before we do that workshop on the twenty-first of this month. Woo! So so yummy. Uh, till then, y'all, yes, yes.