Welcome to the Stay or Go podcast, where we're changing the dialogue around divorce so that no woman ever stays in her marriage out of fear. Get ready to dispel myths, learn life-changing tools, and build a solid foundation in yourself from which to make your decision. And now your host, me, Britta Joe. Welcome back. All my fabulous ladies, we have such a treat today. I have been hoping to get to interview past clients and decided to kick this off by interviewing my best friend. We were talking the other day, and she was like, You do know that I was one of your past clients, right? And I was like, oh my God, that's right. So I want you guys to welcome to the show with me, my friend Quinn O'Trera. And today I'm going to be interviewing her in preparation, really, for the incredible launch of her own podcast. Um, she's about to drop a podcast called The Post-Divorce Glow Up Show. And guys, Quinn and I, she has been talking about this for just like I told you guys, my podcast took a couple years of talking about it to finally have it emerge into the world. Uh, same thing for Quinn. And as she started, you know, I'm getting to see behind the scenes with what this is gonna be, and I am already obsessed. Like every time I talk to her, I am squealing. I am like, please put it out. Um, and really so excited because all of you are gonna get to enjoy it too. Um, she has an incredible, like, incredible wealth of knowledge. Uh, for those of you on the podcast, I don't know if I've mentioned it, but Quinn is my personal coach. She's been my coach solidly, like every week for the last two years more, potentially. So she is my go-to coach. She is the one that I trust with my brain, and I'm so excited that she's gonna be getting to work with, you know, women who post-divorce are looking for that magic fairy godmother glow-up. Like, this is this is your gal. So, uh, Quinn, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01Uh thank you. Thank you. I feel so honored to be here because of the work that you have done in my life. I really want to be able to share my experience because I think that in listening to your podcast, people have ideas about you wanting every woman to leave their marriage. And I'm an example of a woman who, when you coached me, it coached me back into marriage. And it wasn't until later that I chose to use the tools to leave my marriage for different reasons, but reasons that I really liked. And so I I'm excited to show what you did for me and through me and how it changed my life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you bring up this is one of the best points that you've made in listening to the podcast, just helping me kind of balance because I am fiery and fierce on the wanting to support women who leave. And the reality is for a lot of my clients, it is much more of a journey, a long-term process. I mean, I had a client yesterday who I've worked with on and off for two years now, who a month ago was separating for the second time. And today, or yesterday when I was talking to her, was like, I'm gonna stay in my marriage, and we're actually moving to a different country. I was like, I am so here for this, because it's not her deciding to stay or go as much as it is learning how to trust herself on whatever that decision is. And your story showcases so beautifully the up and down, beautiful journey that it is learning to do that.
SPEAKER_01Yes, because you know, Britta, you I don't see you as team stay or team go. Like you said, you are team trust yourself. And teaching a woman how to gain clarity and have peace in making a decision and having the courage to lean into it when other people are going to disagree, whether she stays or whether she goes, but having that self-assurance and that courage and loving her reasons, that's the gift that you give. So stay, go, doesn't matter. But those skills, those skills go with they they went with me on my journey, and I still use those same skills today.
SPEAKER_03Yes, you do. I love watching you go through all of your journey. Okay, so we're gonna start. We're gonna like, I think it's the best way to go into your journey is gonna be starting back at how we met. And we're gonna, I'm gonna kind of divide up the episode into three different sections. This first part, we're gonna explore that period where we were working together and you ultimately decided to stay, which I am so excited for because this is a a piece that I have not explored or really shared, gotten, you know, to give to my podcast listeners. And then we're gonna move from there into that second part of the podcast, which will be you talking about the shift in when you decided to go and where you really were at that point, what had changed for you. And then at the end, I definitely want to take some time to talk about this new venture of yours, this exciting podcast, what a glow-up really is, what you're passionate about, because this is your work that you're giving to the world. And I can't wait to highlight it. And I know there are a lot of women that do end up listening to my podcast that actually are already divorced. So I'm not the right fit for them because I love working with women who are in the crux of the decision. So I'm really excited to be linked up with you for those who are looking for that. I'm already out, but what do I do now?
SPEAKER_01Peace. There's so much we get to do now. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Okay, okay. So to take you all back, Quinn and I met going through coach training at the Life Coach School together. And part of our training, I went into an entrepreneur track after we had become certified as coaches that was also facilitated by the school. And I was developing out a program, you know, who did I want to coach? Um, and testing, coming up with a theory and ideas of what I was gonna teach, what the tools were gonna be, and who I was gonna coach. And I originally started out wanting to revolutionize the marriage therapy industry, having my own experiences with marriage therapy and it not being successful. It was felt like a total shit show. I had this idea of coaching couples and coaching each of them individually, and through them getting those foundations of coaching in their individual practices, then being able to bring them back together. And Quinn was in that first go-round of me testing out this theory. I had five different couples that I was able to work with and uh got to coach each of those spouses separately. So I was able to coach Quinn and her ex now ex-husband. Um, and so that's where that's where I want to start. And the beautiful, I just want to say quick side note. Quinn knows I have a terrible memory. Like I I tend to forget stuff. So I'm like really looking forward to going back into all of this with her because she's gonna be sharing stuff that I probably have forgotten. So if I get excited and have like flashback moments, good ones, not the emotional flashback ones we talk about, we're just gonna let me have those moments because I love nostalgic stuff like this, getting to go back, getting to talk about it. But um maybe just starting, Quinn, with where you were at when we first started coaching, when I was coaching both you and your husband.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So the way I remember it is that you had expressed an interest in finding a number of couples to try this new approach with, and I approached my husband. Well, at the time he was my husband, and said, Are you would you be willing to try this? And we had tried therapy in the past, and I found it utterly useless. And we had approached clergy for help. Um it was it was a challenging marriage for me. I think it was pretty good for him, but I think it was incredibly challenging for me. And I had nine children with him, and so he knew, and not that I said this, but he had said it to me that I know you're just in this marriage for the children. And for me that was enough. Like, yeah, I'm here for the kids, but if I can improve it, I was determined to stay married. And so as we met with you, I started an idea that I'm here for my kids, and there were a couple of parts to that. Part number one was that I believed that it was really important for children to be in a home with both biological parents. I knew all of the stories, you know, you get divorced, and kids suffer in a multitude of ways, and then the women of the divorce, you're gonna end up lonely and sad and poor. And I really bought into a lot of those ideas about what was possible for me as a divorced woman.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because you didn't have anybody in your life that would show you otherwise, right?
SPEAKER_01No, no. And at the time I had been born and raised a Mormon, and I was raising my children at the time as a Mormon. And so, in that sort of religion where you center the nuclear family, all of the women that were divorced that I knew, they were very much like second-class citizens, like, oh me too.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, not even like ah, like oh, yeah, it was like ick, you give me the ick.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And especially if you had children, and if you're the one that chose out of it, like, mm-hmm, yeah, not good. And there was also this realization that when you get divorced, it doesn't mean that your spouse doesn't have access to your children, they will still have access to your children. You just won't be there to interact, to intervene, is what was in my mind.
SPEAKER_03Because that was a huge part of your role, yeah, as a mother was being this buffer between your husband and your children, correct?
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. Um, the way he would discipline his anger, just his very intense energy. When he would travel for work or go out of town for any reason, it was like this huge sigh of relief in just collectively among all of us, because he just carries a really intense go, go, go pioneer stock, always have to be busy. Doing um, there's definitely a right and a wrong, um, lots of shame, and and some of that's generational. But I knew that I I just did not like the idea of him being alone with our children. I did not know if they would be fed or cared for in the way that I thought that they needed to be. And the thought of my children suffering, that's a huge thing for me that I remembered kept me there.
SPEAKER_03This was such a big piece of what we coached through, and you feeling a lot of deep agony around the belief if I leave, my children will suffer.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yes. And me being willing to suffer for decades. At this point, I had been married 22 years, and my first child was born 10 months after I got married. So this had been married with children for 22 years.
SPEAKER_03And willing to suffer because you thought your suffering somehow was preventing theirs.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. I had this idea that as long as I stay married, they don't suffer. And now looking back, I just I just cannot. I mean, I have so much compassion for me thinking that. But now speaking to my children and watching it unfold, I couldn't, I was so blinded to the suffering that was happening for them that I I couldn't have prevented that came about from me staying. But at the time I was most uh compelled to stay because of the the future suffering that I thought I might cause by leaving.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So when you started coaching with me, because we we have this journey at the beginning where you did end up staying.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So break down for me some of the components of that that piece, because you did not immediately go, oh, it makes sense, I'm gonna leave. My children are gonna be better off, you know, less suffering if I leave. There was a whole, I mean, how long did that was it over at least six, nine months, a year?
SPEAKER_01It was about six months. We I looked at the dates because I looked back at some notes that you had sent me from our meeting, and this very pivotal moment when you showed me how I was placing all of the responsibility, this emotional baggage on my children that I'm staying because of you rather than owning it for myself. Am I staying for me? Am I going for me? But but it's like you didn't care which I chose, but showing that it's not my children's responsibility to keep me in a marriage, and that's terrible to put that emotional burden on my child or children, multiple children at that time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's a super sneaky thing that the brain does, and and I remember I think I helped you see that by, and I need to do an episode kind of diving into this piece more too, which is when we as mothers sacrifice our life to protect our children, or supposedly for our children, we psychologically and often subconsciously put them in debt to us. And that is where we get these weird dynamics later on when your children are growing up, where you see mothers who are like who believe they have a right to just you know have a say in who their children marry or what careers they pick, or because you have to live vicariously through them because you sold your life for theirs, and it's not even a conscious thing, yeah, it's just like this deep unconscious resentment at the sacrifices you made that they weren't even asking you to make. And that's the other big thing is realizing we then hold our children accountable for this, and we want them to show up in certain ways to kind of pay us back for all that we gave up for them. And they're like they had no idea that they were paying something or that they need to pay something now, so it just gets really messy on like whose life is whose and who gets to live their life for them when we give up our life for our kids. Yes.
SPEAKER_01So I remember as we discussed that idea, I decided I need to make a decision about staying in my marriage for me or leaving, accepting that my kids may suffer. And I had to do a lot of work around like if you're a human on this planet, you get to suffer. And it's a lie to think that my children that I can somehow prevent all the suffering in their life. But I wanted to prevent as much as I could, but I wanted to experience being in my marriage for me, like really leaning in, taking it all back from my children. It I am not here because of you. Like, I'm going to experience this marriage with your father for me. And I've got to tell you, it transformed my marriage. It was so good.
SPEAKER_03It became wild.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03It was so wild. I I had forgotten that this even happened in your history until we were talking about doing this episode. And when you brought it up, I was like, oh my God, that I had forgotten.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Because I remember you during this period being like that.
SPEAKER_01And it was kind of a messy period because at the same time, I chose to leave Mormonism, which is a foundational institution for both of our families, and but especially for my husband, like that is his whole life. And so when I stepped away from Mormonism, that was pretty rocky. And he he gathered all the children, told them he was going to divorce me, and which was shocking to me because I was at that point very much in love with my husband. And I was totally okay that he didn't agree with me. I just thought we just need to get to know each other better as these different versions of ourselves. This is going to be fine. We're going to be a dual faith kind of family as I unpack and deconstruct my Mormonism, and he's going to stay, and that's not a problem. So when he gathered the children while I was in the shower one morning and said, Your mother's going to hell and I'm going to divorce her. When he told me, I had no reaction because I was just so shocked. I thought, oh, so this is how it's going to end. I never would have guessed.
SPEAKER_03Because you were in such a good, like, kind of not even just like neutralized in your marriage, but you were leaning into loving your husband, your husband at that time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so if he felt like he needed to divorce me, that's what I wanted for him. And it was in my just fully accepting his anger. He called my parents, told them they needed to, you know, drive down and set their daughters straight.
SPEAKER_03And it just you weathered that storm really well. And do you remember I feel like a lot of that was from the coaching we had done around you realizing maybe just a letting go of like the attachment to having to control everybody because that had been so much part of your dynamic and that whole role of like protecting everybody and always trying to make and a lot of it was trying to make your like control your husband's feelings and his thoughts and being able to like controlling him, controlling my children, and just letting it all unfold and realizing who he is, he gets to believe what he wants to believe.
SPEAKER_01He gets to believe what he wants to believe about me and I can still love him. Like just having this unconditional love, not because he deserved it, like deserved in scare quotes, but just because it feels better in my body to love him. Yeah, that's it. And to love my children.
SPEAKER_03All of you listening, I am this is a like a flashback moment for me. That was one of the most unique aspects out of you know many clients that I've worked with. Quinn especially was unique in that her journey led her into a space. I remember you being you really wanted to unconditionally love him, to love him for who he was instead of what you'd done most of your marriage, which was like the potential. Like who could he be? Yes. If only he would do the only yes. And in doing that, you did seem to access this deep power because you were no longer resisting. So, you know, I'm and I'm realizing that's what led to that moment where when he does this, you're not like sucked into all the drama and what's and you were kind of just able to sit back and watch because you'd been doing this work over those months together of and that's what's so surreal because I think a lot of us when you're considering divorce think we have to leave from a space of really hating somebody and you were one of my clients who went into a space of like loving your spouse more than you'd ever loved them before. Yes. And and ultimately from that space was when you left. I don't want to go get into the leaving. Okay. We are gonna talk about that, but but I want you to come back to maybe what were some of the the tools because this is for anybody listening, I would be like bullshit. This is crazy. How could you end up loving someone that you had not wanted to be who who you'd been with for 22 years just for the kids? Like, how did that change?
SPEAKER_01I think it was reconnecting with my body and feeling a physical release when I leaned into kind of the Byron Cady work of who would I be without this thought? This thought that, oh, he needs to, he needs to provide for our family, he needs to get a job, he needs to not be getting sued all the time by business partners, you know, all of these things that I thought he needed to change in order to be, you know, a better man or whatever, or a better father. He needs to not yell at the children, he needs to chill out, he needs to just so much outward focus. I was so so externally centered. And so when I became more self-centered, like centered in my experience, I saw how much suffering I was creating for myself needlessly. And so when I asked myself, what if he doesn't need to change? What if who he is is perfect for him, for me, for family? What if I can just enjoy him and he doesn't need to change? And when I dropped that resistance to what was, I felt a physical calming in my body that was one of the most significant, most sensual, most relaxing sensations I have ever felt. And then it became a tell for me when I was around him and I was feeling like stress or tension in my body. It was just a reminder, oh, I'm probably holding on to some ideas of how he needs to change or how he needs to be. And I could just and remember, I'm choosing this me. I'm not choosing to be in the man. I am choosing this for me. He gets to have his own experience.
SPEAKER_03This is such a clutch example. For those of you wondering, like, what's the work if I want to stay? Here it is. Because you had, I remember when we came into coaching, it wasn't like you were trying to figure out if you were staying or going. You wanted to stay. So also know that. I'm right, like I feel like we were coaching from a space of you wanting to work on your marriage. You wanted to stay. And so, in that space, what are we gonna coach towards? We're gonna coach towards that internal peace that you can have no matter where you're at. And it was amazing because when you stopped judging your husband at the time, we saw levels of intimacy and connection come out of him that we had never that you'd never seen before.
SPEAKER_01Right. Right. He began showing up in ways that were much more, I would say, vulnerable. He was a much more generous lover. He was calmer with the children. There were a lot of things that were moving forward together for our children's education. It was so multifaceted and giving myself credit for you know, there's just such negativity around the phrase self-centered, but I think it's so incredibly important because when I was centered on my marriage, something that was external to me, or centered on my husband's actions, something I had no control over, rather than, or even my children's suffering or enjoyment of life, I couldn't actually control any of that. And it's so clear now, as my children tell stories of their experience when I thought they were having a great time and maybe they had a horrible time, or vice versa. None of that was in my control. The only person I had control of in this entire scenario was myself and my experience. And I had been trying to stay married from the time I got married. It it was clear to me early, early on that this was gonna be a difficult marriage. And I thought in the trying to stay married, married, it was, well, we need to go to therapy, or he needs to do this, and we need to do this. But the truth was, it was me. It was me. I needed to change in order for me to stay in the marriage. It would have been great, you know. I would have loved, you know, some changes here and there, but I found that as I stopped resisting who he was, some of the things that I really wanted, he just changed of his own volition. Like I didn't even ask.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And this goes to another aspect that I haven't touched yet on the podcast, but that you know from our conversations, I am so big on, which is the power of resistance. It is like you want to keep something in your life, resist it. You want something to stick around, resist it. It is uh just from my own work, watching clients, it is one of the most powerful forces in the universe for keeping stuff. And what you were doing is you were using the magic of surrendering into what is, which for those of you that have read Byron Katie, that is a huge cornerstone of her work. And I will admit, like now that we're talking about this, like this is pretty advanced work that you were doing here. Um to want to go to a space of unconditionally loving someone and completely surrendering to what is. Um, and it's just so ironic to me that that's the space you went to that ultimately had you leaving eventually. Yes. Yes. Why why do you think that was? Let that if you need to like digest that question, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So clarify the question. Why do I think what was that I needed to go to a place of love and that's what catapulted me out or my journey? Yeah, kind of clarify.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that for you it wasn't gonna come from anger and hatred to be able to leave. I think I could try that. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like that had not worked.
SPEAKER_01No, no. I had twice, uh, it was the week before Christmas once, where he was refusing to get a job, our family was destitute. I call my parents, I'm like, can I move into your basement with these probably five or six kids at the time? And I was probably pregnant and and you know, moved out and he made all these promises, and and you know, within a few days I was back. And then a few years later, again was like, I cannot do this anymore. He's never gonna change, and he should change. And I left for about 10 days and ultimately came back. I mean, I had tried leaving, I had support of certain members of my family who were like, Yeah, this is not okay. Your marriage is not okay, the family is not okay. And so I there were people cheering for me to leave, but I really wanted to stay married. I really wanted a beautiful marriage, and I've seen marriages that are not hard, but mine was so hard, and I wanted to find a way to make it not hard. And the way to make it not hard is to become self-centered and to like I loved him for me, and yeah, it changed some things for him, but I was the recipient of all of that love that I got to feel towards him. And the fact that eventually I did leave from that space of deep love and acceptance tells me that just because you love someone unconditionally doesn't mean you stay.
SPEAKER_03Oh my, can we just Mike drop? Tell me more, yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, unconditional love does not mean that you put up with behaviors that aren't great for you.
SPEAKER_03Cause this this is the key, Quinn. Is yes, like for those six months or however long, six to nine months where things got really good in your marriage. I feel like we got to see how far your husband could could come kind of in that space. And it's it's such a tricky, like ironic mind twist the way this all works when you do the work in this specific way. Uh, who he really is is who he is. And eventually, like, what was the moment where the straw kind of broke and you realized, oh, wait a second.
SPEAKER_01Was it that moment where he talked to your kids? Or no, that was several months later because that happened. I think it was it was April or May. And it wasn't until September when I had moved to a city um for my kids' education. This is pandemic year, so it's 2021. No, 2020. 2020, 2021, when the schools are shut down, everything's virtual. But the school my kids had gotten into, we needed to be in Tucson. And we were sitting in the apartment, so I'm in this shitty apartment with the kids on the during the week. And I told my husband, I didn't think I wanted to go home on the weekend. And he said, Well, I think we should probably just get divorced. And I think he said it facetiously, but I agreed with him and I leaned into that. But what had ultimately gotten me to that point was when he revealed he had made some promises about things he would do and things he would not do. And it became clear through our process of trying to buy a house in Tucson that he had violated his promise again. And this was something like throughout my marriage. He would say he would do something, wouldn't do it. He would say he wouldn't do something, he would do it. When we were dating, he said that he had been divorced for a year. I get home from my honeymoon and find something in the mail, which shows that his divorce was final two months prior. And so I knew that there was this pattern of this man who has a really difficult time telling the truth for whatever reason. And so when I found out what he had done again, and it was no worse than anything else he had done, but there was this moment, this realization that this truly is who he is. Who he is. Yep. And there's no changing it. And I can love it and I can stay. Like I had unattached my happiness from his behavior. I knew I could stay, I could do that work, and I had done that work, but it wasn't going to change who he is. Or I could do the work of leaving. And it was like this snap. That's right. That's right. It was like this deep inner knowing, but it was definitely not from anger. It was not from, well, if he would change, then we wouldn't have to do this. It was just this knowledge of this is who this human is. And this is the way he's been for all of the years that I'd known him, all of them. From the very beginning. And it's time to do the other work.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And that's the piece right there. I first off, I love you explaining work both ways. This acknowledgement. It's gonna be work to stay, it's gonna be work to go. It it just is. Welcome to life. But I think the key piece here, and that your story illustrates so beautifully, is when you're living in resistance to what is, which is where you were for the 22, you know, 21 plus years leading up to this whole work, a huge amount of your energy is being siphoned away into resistance, which weakens your ability to feel strong enough to go. And so I see you moving into non-resistance, into like this is what it is, right? You're not spending all this energy trying to change him, trying to hope he'll be different. You're really just like, welcome, reality. I'm going to look at you without trying to pretend or hide or close my eyes halfway and put a little filter on this to make it look nicer. I'm gonna be with what is, that energy returns to you. And that's that like I think what you're describing is being self-centered. You feel it in your body. You're no longer torn by trying to lie to yourself about what is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's the magic that got you to that point where all of a sudden, when and and it was the same for me a little bit, the moment when I knew was not this like big, it was nothing different than it always been. I think I was just grounded and centered enough in myself to be like, no more.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03I was ready for the work of leaving because I was I'd like accepted and done the work of staying, and it was like it's gonna be hard either way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I had done, you know, at that point, it was over 22 years of hard. And I had a lot of fear about what it would look like. I did not have a college degree, I did not have my own income, I would have we still had six children at home. I mean, it was a lot. I had just moved to a new city, a shitty part of that city, where my neighbor said, Hey, you should put up some floodlights in case somebody overdoses.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I remember this, Quinn. I remember. And at this time, we hadn't even met in person. So just a quick fun side note the first time I met Quinn when I finally went to Tucson and we met in person, she drove me to see this apartment. And I was like, oh my god, it's so much worse than I imagined.
SPEAKER_01Like But what I found, like circling back to you saying, yes, but then you have all of this energy when you're not resisting what is, because even on the weekends, when my kids would go back to their dad on the weekends, about 45 minutes away from me, and I was all alone, and my mind was freaking out. It was not like being a single mother has never been as difficult as being married to my husband.
SPEAKER_03Same. And it's not that being a single mom and starting her own businesses and has been easy. This is the whole it's hard either way, yeah. But seeing that apartment and and like understanding the scariness of like, yeah, leaving was striking out on your own. It was the unknown. Yeah, you you were able to do that from that self-centered space of I've got me, I'm gonna figure it out. Because there was a lot that over those first couple years after your divorce, I remember was not figured out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Ahead of time. Like, how how do I do this? If I get a flat tire, you know, yeah, now there's triple A. I mean, there's always been triple A, but just this nagging in my mind, like, there's no one for me. I'm alone. I left my faith community, I didn't have any family nearby, had to stay close for the visitation schedule in a city where I knew no one. And yet there was this yes, that thought, I've got my own back. I've got me. And I fully did because that unconditional love that I was able to project onto my husband, I still had to walk through the divorce process with him. And watching him suffer, and which I decided had nothing to do with me. I mean, it really was the story that he was telling himself. But watching that just as another human, it it's challenging. It hurt my heart. But I also was able to project that unconditional love towards him while we went through the divorce, as well as onto myself, to just love myself so deeply, have such compassion for what I had gone through, and to believe, deeply believe that there was a path through this for me. And then, you know, just the coaching, God, coaching, having someone else look at your mind. And, you know, I'm 52 now. I was 49 when this happened. So I remember when I was young enough to have a period, I would there were times of the month when I would hate my husband and then I would bleed, and I'd be like, oh, it was just that. And but when you're in menopause, you can't blame it on, oh, it's just my period coming. That's why I feel crazy. And so to have a coach, just to be able to sit there and say, Oh, you're just human. That's why you feel crazy. It's okay. Like, let's unpack this. To have an empathetic witness to your fear, to speak your fear out loud makes it so. Much less overwhelming, and that was such a gift to have the coaching just week after week. Let's look at your brain. What's the next step?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I mean it's so beautiful that as we've coached each other, right? You know, you've also been a huge part of my piece, you know, my journey with coaching me. And it does, it makes all the difference to have somebody in your corner that loves you, that doesn't need anything from you. Because, you know, friends, family, there's always some kind of there's just other cut components there. It I think in a lot of ways, that too was a huge piece, I would say, of like helping you become self-centered is being loved by your coach. For me, it was Kelly. Kelly was the one who coached me through my process. That that really helps.
SPEAKER_01It does. It does to just have that neutral person that believes in the audacity of your dreams.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and is willing. Like, I think one of my favorite things with my clients is to kind of catch when their brains are trying to settle, when it's not genuinely what they want, but they're afraid. And so there's they're like, let's get smaller just because I'm afraid, and to have somebody say, Hey, wait a second. We don't have to do that if you don't want to. There's other possibilities here.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_03So moving into the divorce, tell me just some of the highlights of going. You know, here you've been in the space of thinking you're staying, and now all of a sudden you're going. How did you wrap your head around that?
SPEAKER_01It was challenging and it was step by step. It didn't happen all at once. I had to look at my surroundings. So I'm in this apartment. My bedroom is literally my little girl's closet. That's where I'm sleeping. And trying to make my way, gain my footing. And so I think it's okay to be to feel off balance. When you pull your center back into yourself, it can feel you can, it can get kind of dizzy. Like I'm thinking of the like ice skaters as they pull closer and closer and it goes, it feels like it's going so fast. It's going so fast. And I really wanted to slow down. And so when I told my husband that we really are getting divorced, really, I am serious about this. Um he had kind of a different approach and started like putting out, um, started dating, like uh putting himself out on like Mormon dating sites right away. Yes, I remember this. And this is before we had even filed any paperwork about divorce. But I think that was an important step for him because then he saw that there were other possibilities of love. Like he was still externalizing, I need someone that can love me. To make me happy, to love me. Yeah. And to just let him have that experience. And knowing now that he had done the same thing with his, I was his second wife. He had done the same thing with his first wife that when they were talking about divorce, you know, when he met me, he was still legally married to her, unbeknownst to me. And so just not having any judgment, just being like, yeah, this is what he does. And I saw his dating profile, and it was very similar to the one that that uh hooked me. It wasn't true, but I got to see that and just have so much compassion for this human that is afraid. But that doesn't mean I have to stay. I am not the one to make him feel better. That's his job to make himself feel better.
SPEAKER_03That was a huge that that component of like really seeing, especially if you're empathic, seeing this human across the table that is hurting and being able to separate that in your mind, especially those of you that have more codependent tendencies of this person's hurting, and it is not my job to go make them feel better. And you, I mean, you kind of learn that when you you step back from all the caretaking and the control, and you realize that is an inside job. Feeling good, you can there's no amount of pouring you can do into another person that's gonna really give them what they want most.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so it wasn't until he was ready to have me filed that I actually filed. It wasn't until he said, Hey, we need to get, if you're gonna do this, let's get it filed. Because up until then, he was he was really resistant to it. But what had happened is that, you know, he was telling women that he was divorced. And so he's like, Hey, Quinn, could you take care of this? Just speed this up. I've met someone. Right? And, you know, and that I think that that's what happened. That's the story I'm telling myself. Um, we had also had a family vacation um end of October or no, first part of October that we had planned months in advance. And so I knew that that would be like our last family vacation together. And when we had this great time down in Mexico and we had this great sex, he really thought we were making up. And for me, it was just a good goodbye. And so it's okay that we both had this experience, but we interpreted it very differently. And so my job was to be clear that this is not me coming back, this is me showing my gratitude and love to you and saying goodbye, which was very, very difficult for him to understand because he yeah, he just we just don't think the same, which is fine. But it was about six weeks later that I filed the paperwork, and it was a very quick divorce. Um, it was done by the next January. So I think it was January 2021. We went together to the courthouse to file the paperwork, and we walked out and we were at an elevator going down into a parking garage. And he turned to me and he said, Are you proud of yourself? But probably in a in a harsher tone, more like, oh, like, look what you've done. Like the shame, shame on you. I hope you're proud of yourself. But I was I turned to him and I said, Yes, yes, I am so proud of myself because I knew what it took to stay for over 22 years. I also knew what it took to go, and I was so proud of myself. Neither one of those paths were easy, but I did it in a way that was genuine to me. That was I never attacked him during the divorce, no matter what he told the kids. And they'd come and tell me, and I would say, Yeah, your dad gets to say that. It doesn't mean it's true. And just I never felt animosity or anger. There was some frustration in can we just stay on point? Let's let's move through this process. This is happening. But there was never animosity, there was never hatred, which was so confusing to him because that was very different from his first divorce, according to his story. I don't know his ex-wife's story, but I was so proud of myself.
SPEAKER_03And I love you owning that, you know, right there with him. Are you proud of yourself? Yes, I am so proud.
SPEAKER_01Yes, who I had to become, because just a year earlier, it was less than a year from when you started coaching me, and me leaning in, and then me saying, A line has been crossed, I will do the work to leave, and coming out. I with the number of times I had tried to leave that marriage, and me being more on the codependent side and people pleasing and caretaking, I didn't know if I would ever get to be out of that marriage in this life. And this life is all I have, so I thought I was that was it for me. I was so proud of myself.
SPEAKER_03And I I am just like uh I'm geeking out with how happy I am that we're getting to record and share this because your journey is so individually unique. And I love that because you know, as I'm thinking about you, I'm thinking about all of the other clients I've had, and every single one of them, the journey is super, super unique. And as we add these different voices to the collective records, we all realize oh, you can do it an infinite amount of ways, which is for me, is really reassuring because so many of us don't even want to embark on the journey because we think it has to be done a certain way, instead of just leaning in to where you're at, which that was that moment where you agreed to coach with me. You were like, that was like a signal of yours to the universe of okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna lean in, I'm gonna try something different. And knowing that in the space of that container, all the roller coaster of emotions of yourself, all the iterations of yourself, and that piece that you said of like the growth and the becoming of you that happened through the experience of considering divorce, which is like my favorite thing, because it's not so much about the external things we go through, but who we are becoming as we do those things.
SPEAKER_01Yes, because it's not even so much considering divorce, that's the grist for the mill. It's considering yourself, it's considering your considering your needs, considering who you want to become at a very deep level, and the more you settle into that self, that capital S, things just become clear instead of muddy. It just becomes so crystal clear. This is the next step. And even if you don't see the stepping stone in front of you, you feel the momentum, you feel the pull back into yourself, whether that's the self that wants to stay or the self that wants to go. One is not better than the other. I love both the woman that had the courage to step away, but I also love the woman that had the courage to stay and say, one more time, one more time, we're gonna fight to stay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And to let your journey um, instead of being pushed or manipulated by outside forces, right? Which you had those forces. You had family members who were like in full support and wanted you. I think they even staged like an intervention at one point.
SPEAKER_01Did they a couple of times they staged interventions? They're like, we need to help you get out of this, but I wanted to be married.
SPEAKER_03And um But you hadn't that's the that's the piece of you like surrendering to who Dell was, was like owning you wanted to be married, you were staying instead of the tricky thing we do, which is say, Well, I want to stay married, but only if he changes. Well, no, he is him. So either you own, I want to stay married, and this is the person I'm staying married to, which is what you did, or you ultimately make that decision where you said, line drawn, I want to do something else.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01And I love how in sharing this, like you said, it gives it shows the many possibilities, the many paths to stay and to go. And it just drives me crazy. I have six daughters, I have seven sisters, like I am a girl's girl. And it drives me crazy when people will say women are like this, or you know, when women get divorced, they are bitter and poor and lonely, and they have cats. And I'm like, I don't have a cat. I'm not bitter, I'm not literally you do.
SPEAKER_02And thankfully he doesn't like other cats, or I would have a lot more.
SPEAKER_01Yes, you can have cats or not.
SPEAKER_03It's you can have cats and not you can be divorced and have a cat and also not see many options and not be divorced and bitter.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, yes, all the things.
SPEAKER_03So I think this is like the perfect segue into you, you know. We've just explained that really, oh, and I love looking at divorce within the greater context of like you becoming you. Like that was, like you said, the grist for the mill. That was the refiner's fire. Like you becoming you, going through all of that has led you into being a coach and this amazing offering that you're bringing to the world of the post-divorce glow-up. So I want you to just gush and tell me all the juicy details of and maybe just starting with um, and you just kind of incorporate like what is it? What are you passionate about in working with the women you're gonna be coaching? And then we'll we'll come back. Start with that. So what is it?
SPEAKER_01So I think that when we come through something as significant as a divorce, which for some of us it is bitter, and for some of us it is sweet, and some of us it's bittersweet. But in connecting with more and more divorced women through meetups and different collections of community that I've come across, I found that there are some women who really thrive post-divorce, and a lot of women that don't, that are very anchored to the past. And there's this, there is this bitterness and anger, and I gave my best years to this person, and look what's become of me, that kind of thing. And I think there's a place for that to unpack your marriage, to unpack your divorce. But then let's just fucking move on to the future because there's so much life to be lived. I mean, here I am at 52, having like truly believing the best is yet to come. Yes, I still have kids at home. My, I mean, and it doesn't make it easy, but it makes it so rich and textured when when I continue to pull into myself and to feed myself and to lean into my dreams and to reclaim my body, my the sensual nature of life that I had lost in my marriage, that um, especially growing up within a purity culture type of religion where my body was to make babies and for my husband to have sex with, instead of literally, right? It's like you are for others, rather than this body is for me. It is for my pleasure, and that it's not just sex. When I say sensuality, it is about the sensuality of being alive, the the sun on your skin, the breeze, the the taste of a blueberry, of course, the touch of a lover, and learning so much about living a sensual, really juicy life. It it's it has become kind of this nuclear reactor within me, this this self-perpetuating energy. And that is the first thing that new girlfriends recognize about me is that I have this very juicy, sensual, fun energy, and a lot of them feel afraid of it. Yes, yes, like is this available? Like, yes, they don't know it's on the menu. It is, uh-huh, and you can order seconds, like this is available, and they believe it has to come from something external.
SPEAKER_03They they think it's on the menu, but it's on this like hidden menu when you finally find the guy that is nothing like your ex-husband, or you finally have the money to be able to do all the things, and one of the things I love the most about you, especially as I was watching you just turn on this nuclear reactor, because there was the work you did, there was the work you did pre-divorce, which we've talked about, but post-divorce, this this was your glow-up era of okay, now that I'm free, what do we want to do here? What do we want to explore? Who do we want to be? How do we want to show up in the world? And that is where so many women, they're, you know, you're going through this intense trial to get through the divorce. One of the hardest things you'll ever do. And then you come out the other end and you have all this freedom. That doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna feel good though. And so many women, it doesn't. It feels lonely and it feels overwhelming. And I had a client yesterday who was like, what examples of divorced women do you have in your life? And she's like, Well, both of my divorced friends have told me they wish they would have stayed for their kids. And I'm like, Oh my God, like just because you get to the divorce doesn't mean you actually get all the things you're describing, and a lot of women do, they get kind of trapped in this. Well, that I fought so hard to get out of that, but now I it's not like I'm magically happy.
SPEAKER_01What I thought that's gonna say, and you know why they're not? Because they brought their same fucking brain with them. If you look at the women, like look at your clients who have chosen into their marriages, they're not the same person. The women that you've coached that choose out of their marriage, they're not divorcing in the same way. Like they have different tools. And yes, so many times we think, oh, I can just I can change the external, I can lose the weight, I can get the tummy tuck, I can get the new job, and I will feel different. I can get the hot new boyfriend. And yes, at over 50 years old, you can pull whatever age man you want with however six packs, eight packs, 12 packs, you can have all the packs. It does not matter if you have the same brain, none of those things are going to give you the self-love, the peace, the joy that you are really longing for. And and can we just take a second to talk about staying in a marriage for kids? Just like unpack a little bit about what it looks like for my kids post divorce.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, I would love that.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I have nine kids. My oldest passed away in 2003. So I have eight kids living, two boys and six girls. My oldest son is. In a period of not speaking to me, but not because I left. If anything, it's because I stayed. And I was an enabler of the abuse that was heaped upon him as the oldest son in this marriage that I was in. And so he has asked for no contact, and I absolutely support that. And I trust him. I deeply, deeply trust him to find himself. I have five children still at home. I have two daughters in college, and they are doing so well. Just the other day, one of my daughters sent me a message and she said, I am so glad you are my friend. Thank you for leaving the religion, for leaving the marriage. You have given me a new life. Because my daughters didn't even know it was a possibility to leave Mormonism because I was in it to win it. Y'all, like nine kids, I am in it to win it. And it has, and I've gone and asked my kids, how do you feel about the divorce? Like just in a very neutral space. And my youngest, I was bringing her to gymnastics once, and and I turned around, I said, Hey, what do you think about the divorce? And she said, I like it. And I said, What do you like about it? That was unexpected. And she said, Well, I like that I feel safe in your house. And I like that when um when I'm at your house, there's always food and and that it's peaceful here. And and so the the joy of divorce, I think one of the greatest gifts we give our children is the contrast. Because the mother that I was when I was incredibly stressed about being the protector of my children in my marriage, it I was far more authoritarian and more um more of a disciplinarian, more shame-based. And some of that came from the religion. Whereas now I am like our home is shameless. We can talk about anything. It truly is. Yeah, you can say all the words. You want to talk about masturbation at dinner. What are the questions? Let's use anatomically correct terms, like let's discuss religion. Like that, nothing is off the table. Whereas their dad is still their dad. And he gets to parent the way he wants to parent. And I and I also wanted to mention, like, as you say, okay, finally you're free. My freedom looks very different than what some people might think of as free. I have several of my children full-time. They do not have visitation with their dad because they simply don't feel safe with him. Some of my children do have visitation with their dad. My two youngest still do. But I always have children at my house. I never have like a weekend off where all of the children are gone. And yet I still consider myself free because I have created that freedom for myself. And I've trained my kids how to put themselves to bed.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Yes. Well, and you before we got on this call, I loved you said you uh were outside sitting in the sun. And what was the thought that you had?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I I laid in the hammock and I thought, this is such a great day to be divorced. Like this is not a morning that I wake up thinking, oh, I wish I was still married. I mean, there are mornings where I wish I woke up and I reach over in part of my bed and I wish my lover was there, but I never wish that I was married to him. I never wish that my husband was there. And and you know, it divorced life can be so good depending on the work you put in.
SPEAKER_03Even without all the things that right now you're so afraid and think you need to have.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, and that would be for many of you, like the fine the financial. A lot of you you stay because it's like, well, we get to do the vacations and we get to I get to buy whatever I want. Um, both Quinn and I have had our own financial pieces that we've been working through uh post-divorce. Um and yet, even without that financial security for me, and I'm sure Quinn would say the same, yeah, I would choose it again a million times over. Um, and you were mentioning earlier that just living without the you were, you know, laying in that hammock and knowing he's not gonna walk in at any minute.
SPEAKER_01Like you said it was like a jump scare or yes, he he was a very intense kind of energy, and he liked farming, or that's one of the ways he was an engineer, but we also lived on farms, and so like being busy was very, very important. Like resting, or you know, quote unquote wasting time was the ultimate sin. And so there was always this energy of you can't completely rest, you're always listening for those footfalls to see if he's coming. So I can look busy, I can look like I'm doing something, and it's just exhausting. So to have those reserves back for my life and to allow myself deep rest. Ugh.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. The the stress level, the just I think one of the biggest pieces for me is my home is a refuge now. I have a space that I know is just like your littlest was saying, is my safe space. Yeah. It's everything. Yes. So bringing you back to the glow-up piece, so it feels like this glow up is finding and creating this internal source of magnetism, vibrancy that is not based so much on what does my external look like, but more on that self-centered piece. Am I picking up what you're laying down?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think that the external does come, but it sticks. I mean, we've all seen the women who, you know, get work done after a divorce, or they lose the weight only to gain it back, or they lose the weight and they're unhappy, or they gain weight. I mean, I've coached people who are trying to gain weight because the divorce was so stressful that they lost weight. One of the things that is really important for me to encourage in women is strength, physical strength, and taking care of our body in a really beautiful way, but not in a let's diet and exercise to become smaller, because it's not about becoming smaller, it's about becoming bigger, it's about becoming more, it's about taking off the layers that we put our. It's like this heavy blanket that we put over ourselves and our dreams and our possibilities to just shrug that off. So part of it is emotional war. Like it's there from pack. Let's do that because those are just rocks in your backpack, and we need to push some of those rocks out. But a lot of it is this embodied like creation from this embodied place, so that no matter what is happening in your external world, you still have this beautiful deep sense of safety. Because I think that a lot of the financial fears, it's really about safety. But even if you have money, you won't necessarily feel safe. And creating that internal safety is such important work. And I have found for myself that the more I embrace my sensuality and walk with this yummy, juicy, sensual energy into a room, men stand back. I am not the woman they attack. It takes a very special man to even approach. And it is because it is such a it is magnetic, it is not dangerous, but I think women have been sold this idea if you are sensual, you are in danger. But that is one of our superpowers. And I have found that the more sensual I am and experience the world with all of my senses for myself, the safer I feel. And that deep sense of safety. And I just want to mention a couple of things, you know, why safety became such an important thing for me. Within a year of my, well, six weeks after I got divorced, my husband remarried and he remarried a woman with a temper. And three times over the next nine months, um, one of my daughters was physically abused, and I had to get a protective order. My husband comes up to my door and he threatens to come at me with double barrels. Um, he attacked me in front of my house once and grabbed me and pushed me and is screaming, you're gonna go to hell. And I had to call the police. I mean, I'm dealing with a person that has a temper and believes some, I think some crazy things religiously, where I wouldn't put him put it past him to try to hurt me. And so I take care of certain things. Like I got bear spray, and I hope I never have to use it. I have bear spray too.
SPEAKER_02Not for my ex-husband, but just you know, in general, just in case.
SPEAKER_01So, you know, I take care of things that need to be taken care of. I call the police, I get protective orders, like we take care of business, but those things don't keep you feeling safe. Yeah. And so working on feeling deeply safe within myself, and and to do that, you really have to be connected to your body. And so many of us as women are disconnected from our bodies, and when we're in our mind, and our mind is just spinning the F out, the world can be very, very scary. But our bodies, we have so much wisdom in our bodies, so to you know, move with sensual energy, to love with sensual energy, to live with sensual energy, to follow the light. And that's the thing that where I am now. It's like I don't follow the relationship, I follow the light. If the light is in a relationship, I'm all in on the relationship. If there's more for me to harvest, I am in that relationship. But the moment the light leaves, I am all about following the light. And that's where this podcast was born. When you mentioned you were doing this podcast and I listened to it, and I was so excited for the women that get to hear and be a part of your world. And you mentioned doing a podcast, and then my mind went wild, making list after list after list of all the things I want to pour out into the world because we don't have to live disconnected from our bodies. We do not have to live the typical just woman scenario. I am not living that life. And I know that you are not living that life. It's possible to live a very joyful, very connected, very abundant life in many, many ways. Yes.
SPEAKER_03And I want to like just express my appreciation for you sharing those so many, so many details throughout this whole podcast, and especially those last ones, because I think it can be easy hearing us to believe that our lives are fairy tale-like, and well, they feel so good because they probably have a ton of money, or they probably or I mean Quinn has watched me date a lot of she's watched it all, folks. She's been here through all of it, and I have been there coaching you as you've gone through all of these aspects with your ex-husband, which are like huge, you sharing that because that was the thing you were afraid of, right? Was that your children would suffer with you leaving. And I know a lot of women that would think, oh, I need to stay in that marriage. But as you talked about your children post-divorce, and I've become very close with all of your kids, especially your older ones, though, and um have actually been able to coach and help them process through, I can unequivocally say that you leaving was the best thing you ever did because there was so much abuse happening in the marriage. And why that is so painful as a child when there's no contrast is there's no other reality. This is the world. This is what it is, this is what it looks like, this is how it will always feel like. Whereas once your children are divorced, yeah, maybe half the time they're at, or you know, with your children who have ultimately decided not to, the majority of the time they're in your space with you. I want to emphasize and help people realize, like, and then just say thank you for sharing that because when you talk, it sounds like your life is just, you know, like and that is that nuclear reactor that you've created inside you that just magnetically draws life to you, allows life to flow through you. Um and one of the things I I really wanted is you were talking about kind of the pieces, I think, the the foundational pieces. I just have to say, you know, for those of you listening post-divorce that are going to be listening to Quinn's podcast, this is one of your like absolute gifts, Quinn, is being able, you talked about being like an empathic witness and being able to get down into the body. That is the most, one of the most important things you've done for me as a client of yours, is when I'm dysregulated, when I'm freaked out, reaching out to you, getting coached by you, and relearning over the years, right? How to be down in my body, because that's the foundation that ultimately is what springboards you up into the glow-up, which the glow-up is the fun of like walking into a room and watching all eyes on you.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_03Or, you know, going to Burning Man this last year and like falling, you know, having all of these gorgeous people falling in love with me. Like that is the play, the fun that gets to come when you go do the deeper work. And it sometimes it's really scary to go do that work by yourself, and you have always been that safe, deep space for me to come and just be held in without shame, without guilt, with so much unconditional love, which is then like in many ways re-mothered me. And you know, I feel like as a coach, we kind of mothered each other back and forth. That's what coaching is in a lot of ways, holding compassionate witness, helping you see things outside of your narrow viewpoint. Um, but it it made me really excited, realizing, oh yeah, this is you're gonna be doing that work with them of you know, when pro past trauma comes up that they need to feel, I you're the person they're gonna be feeling it with. When they're ready to start taking it to the next level and spreading their wings, um, that's what you get to launch them into as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think that it's important to note that if you're not in a place where you want to unpack trauma, the way I approach trauma processing is that if it shows up, we start pulling on that thread. But we don't go and buy a whole yard of fabric and start just pulling threads to pull threads. We just what shows up in your life now, and then we unpack how it's impacting you now. So it's never about wallowing in the past. It's okay, here's a stepping stone that obviously we need to either, you know, we need to clear this up for you to take the next step. It's never about going into the past. It's always about what are we doing here in the present? And the body is gonna show us, like, yeah, I'm feeling dysregulated. Let's let's pull on that, let's process that. What's the next step? We never have to play in the mud.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and you'll and I think we would both agree as you start actually processing and feeling, because trauma is just trapped emotion in the body that it was not safe to feel back then. And so it's not so much an intellectual process of understanding as much as it is feeling safe enough to feel what you couldn't feel back then now, and that is that like motherly holding of appropriate, empathetic, compassionate space. And when you process in the body, it's more of like emotional sensation and waves, and then it moves through.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it's it's like an orgasm. It just would probably kill us if we had to like feel that intensity for you know hours, and and the body is compassionate with us. Like there's this rising, and there's a release, and then there's this settling. And I think the settling after an emotional release is just it's like that, it's like the calm after the storm where the air is fresh and it's like, ah, but I know every time I need to process emotion, I am in a place of resistance, and that's usually what brings up the emotion. And I think it's going to be so hard, and it's so much easier than you think. Because especially when you're walking into it with a friend, that empathetic witness, that mother with unconditional love, to just hold you in that space and to let it all come out. And it never all comes out at once. Yeah. It comes out in waves as it needs to.
SPEAKER_03It's one of the greatest um honors for me as a coach to be able to hold that space for my clients.
SPEAKER_01And you are really fucking good at it. Because yes, we're girl girlfriends and we, you know, spill the tea on the lovers and the kids and the life and all of that. But when Brinna steps into coach mode, there is nothing I can say that will get a reaction out of her. She just holds this neutral space. I mean, maybe if I said I went and hooked up with my husband, then maybe. Oh my God. I would be like Yes, but you have this ability to neutralize. I think so many women coming into the decision about a divorce or to stay in a marriage, we tend to have a lot of shame about it. Like, oh, if I was gonna leave, I should have left sooner. And we have a lot of regret. And you're able to hold that space where we can unpack that regret. We can unpack that shame. And just having someone look at it and go, Oh, okay. So that this is what it is, rather than being. Aghast. Like, I can't believe you stayed. I mean, it's just it's magic.
SPEAKER_03It's it is. It's total magic being able. And I'm thinking of a client that I met a few days, you know, not a few days, a couple weeks ago, who had like never told anybody what she was telling me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And and I was like, lay it on me. Like there's really nothing you can say that's gonna surprise me. I see the broad spectrum of humanity through the women that I coach with. And I feel like that's that's the fun too of like them getting to work with you. Because if there's one thing that I like, I mean, I adore so many things about you, but definitely one of my favorites is what you said earlier that you have this incredible sensual energy that just makes me want to lean in to my own desire and to take up space and to be flirty and fun and sexy and um yeah, you have really through your own energy in that space, allowed, you know, and your coaching given me the permission to really expand myself, which is such a big deal for so many women, which you don't usually realize. Most of you that are in marriage, you think you don't like being touched, you think you don't like sex, you think you don't like all of these things. I know, and we remember because we were the same. Yes. When we were married, it was like, oh, please don't touch me. Yeah, touched out now, I've maxed maxed out, and now it is like, oh my god, please touch me again. Yes, like, and so much depth of like human expression, getting to enjoy without shame, without all of the weird cultural, patriarchal limitations placed on us as women to really get to explore and enjoy pleasure. You are clut for that.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. And I was thinking about who benefits the most from telling women these stories about well, if you get divorced, you're gonna be so lonely and you'll have no money and you're gonna be miserable. It's it's yeah, just think about it. Yeah. It's not women who are who are benefiting from this. Um, this story, it's not a story that we need to believe anymore. Anymore. There are enough of us that have learned to manage our minds. It doesn't happen by accident. That's the other thing. There it I think it's probably true that a lot of women come out of marriages with mismanaged minds, and they bring the they were miserable in their marriage, they get divorced, thinking that then they'll feel better and they still don't feel better and they're confused because they never learn the tools to manage their mind, to question their thoughts, to feel their emotions, to become embodied. And it's never too late to do this, and it's never too early to do this. I'm watching my daughters as they are so bold in owning their consent, or when they're mistreated, to say, Oh, I recognize that that guy, he treated me like that was echoes of my father, and I will not have that in my life. Like they there's the work you do on you, it's this is the true trickle-down economics. Like, as you glow up, you shine onto your children, you shine onto your coworkers, like everyone benefits when you are thriving, when you are growing. And the way I thrived through my divorce was because of your coaching and helping me thrive in leaning in, and I use those same tools to lean out, and it all started with the work I did with you.
SPEAKER_03Um this feels like the perfect place to like wind down, but with by also saying, I mean, the incredibly what is it, those animals that like support each other, right? Symbiotic relationship is that as I as I coached you, you coached me. And together we have yeah, created realities and futures that I never dreamed when I was getting divorced.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03Like could really be. Yeah. Oh, Quinn. I just I am so she knows I've been going on and on like the last week with her about my excitement, but I'm so just excited to watch you put your work into the world. As I've yeah, as I've done my own podcast and seen the impact it's having, I am so delighted to know that your voice will be out there as well, giving the same gifts, um, igniting. I loved everything you said at the end. I was like, ah, this is the perfect way to end this with this clarion call of your life can be different. It doesn't have to be the stories you've been told.
SPEAKER_01No, it doesn't. And I hope more and more women choose to believe it. Because that's the first step, knowing it's possible for you.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I know your podcast is gonna be dropping soon. You will let me know when it comes out. Absolutely. Yes, and we will link it here so that you all can jump straight from this episode over to all of hers. Then you can. Um, I know you're gonna drop like three or four episodes at the start.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, the ideas come faster than my my technical abilities, but I I'm catching up. I'm catching up. So yeah, there'll be several episodes dropped at once.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, which means you'll all be able to go over and just binge listen to her, which I highly, highly recommend. I am so proud to call you my best friend. So grateful for all yeah, for all that we have done together. And um, yeah, I'm very, very excited for all that's ahead.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. I love you too so much.
SPEAKER_03So much love. We're gonna have to get off, or it's gonna turn into a total love fest. All right, everybody. This has been such a fun episode with my bestie. Um, in the future, I'm hoping to have other clients that I've had on as well. I think this has been an incredible format. It's just added like a totally different flavor. Another fun thing on the horizon, Quinn and I have also talked about potentially once a month, recording an episode together that'll go out on both of our podcasts. So you'll get to hear from her again. From us together again. Uh-huh. It's gonna be really, really beautiful. So that's all from us for this week. And look forward to many more in the future, Quinn. Thank you, Britta.