Welcome to the Stay or Go podcast, where we're changing the dialogue around divorce so that no woman ever stays in her marriage out of fear. Get ready to dispel myths, learn life-changing tools, and build a solid foundation in yourself from which to make your decision. And now your host, me, Britta Joe. Hello, hello, babes. Okay. Hello. There she is. There she is. That gorgeous Quinn that we have missed. Y'all, can we all just take a deep breath together? She's back. It was like the good old days, y'all, on the podcast. Quinn and I just vibing it out. She is back. I'm so excited. Yes. So, so happy to have you back, Quinn. So happy to have our beautiful Yin Yang. Just yes.
SPEAKER_00The cat and the dog of us talking about something we are both really interested in, which is freeing women from their own minds and from history. And yeah. And the patriarchy. Yeah, that.
SPEAKER_03That. So as you guys know from last week, I mentioned that Quinn and I have some incredible episodes that we are going to be sharing with you all about. A couple of books that I I will say Quinn and I took, we took one for the team.
SPEAKER_00Oh boy, did we.
SPEAKER_03A book called The Creation of Patriarchy by Goethe Lerner, and then a second book that she wrote called The Creation of Feminist Consciousness. And just first take on the books, Quinn, pretty meaty, huh? Very deep.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, because it it takes such a long and deep view of where this all started. I mean, even before you and I, we know a little bit of history. We're neither one of us is historians, but especially with our religious background, we know biblical history, you know, that version of history. And certainly in my education, I know a lot of famous men. True that, true that. Right? So when I think of who are the women that created the world as we know it, it's usually somebody's wife or somebody's sister, somebody's mom, but at the center of that is a man. And so to get this view of a depth of where it wasn't like this all the time. Like we have created this, and we're moving through a time of history where we are at an inflection point. But to understand an inflection point, it's like when you throw a ball at a wall, it's it's easier to see where it's going if you can see the angle at which it arrived. And so this whole book was what is the angle of arrival to get us to where we are now? Now, so that we can see, oh, here's the trajectory. Let's keep going. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or, or here's the trajectory. And it's time to do in about face in a lot of ways, which we are seeing happening in the world right now of women going, wait a second, these systems were never built for half of the population. And that ends here. I feel like. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's that is the message that I'm hoping part of this discussion will connect us into. I think one of the more applicable, like the applicable for those of you listening, how does this impact me? Is Quinn was asking, why do you want to talk to women about the creation of patriarchy? Why do you care about this history? And I went through a personal process while reading this of going, oh my God, oh my God, it was like all made up. And once you see how much this has been created by humans, by men to further men's space and place in the world, it's like once you see it, you can't unsee it. And it really has helped me come into more of a compassionate space for myself around understanding why it is so difficult in the world as a woman to get ahead, why it is so difficult to feel safe in my body, why, like my episode last week, I internalize things and make it all about me, and it being a me issue rather than understanding oh, this is the fallout of systems that are thousands of years older than me and that yet still affect my interactions with myself, with my world every single day. And if you don't see it, we tend to go through the world as women thinking I'm the crazy one. So a big piece of why I was like, oh, I really, you know, the author Gerda Lerner, her big, I would say, life mission was realizing that until women know their history, they will be doomed to keep repeating these same cycles of just being fed a world that was created by men and their place in it, women's place in it through men's viewpoint and believing that that is all that's possible.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And it's it's not something so distant in the past as we will see. Like so many changes have just recently happened, like within the last few years, like this century, much less, you know, in centuries before. But I'm excited for you to start us as far back as we feel like we do have some knowledge and walk us through. Walk me through this, babe.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Okay, so to kick us off, I think one of the most important things is to get a viewpoint on how Gerda sees history. And so I want to start us off. We won't be reading much from her book, although there were so many quotes. I hope to post a lot of these to Substack in the future. But I want to read one section from this to all of you so that you get to hear her words and her take on history. So she says, What is history? We must distinguish between the unrecorded past, all the events of the past as recollected by human beings, and history, which is the recorded and interpreted past. Like men, women are and always have been actors and agents in history. Since women are half and sometimes more than half of humankind, they always have shared the world and its work equally with men. Women are and have been central, not marginal, to the making of society and to the building of civilization. First off, when I say that, Quinn, doesn't it kind of like it's a shock to your brain? Is it not a shock? What was it a shock to your brain hearing that where she's like, women have always been central?
SPEAKER_00I think that because I was so long in the biblical view of womanhood that that women were there to help the men. The woman was there as the helpmate. The woman was there as the partner rather than as the central creative force.
SPEAKER_03And as you're thinking with men. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And it just as you were reading that, it brought to mind um Alex Haley's book, Roots, about the slave trade and his own family history, and how in Africa there's a lot of information passed down on lineage through um stories and verbal histories. And there's a person that can repeat a lineage back hundreds of years. And I think it was in the epilogue of Roots where he goes back and he finds someone who still retains this oral history, and he hears of his ancestor, uh Cunya Kinte, I think was the name of this original slave that was taken, and how this kuna Kinte, this son, was he disappeared. And here, here's Alex Haley, you know, multiple generations later. But within within white history, that that doesn't exist. That information doesn't exist, but it's real. Like we have proof that this person was taken. And here's his great, great, great grandson writing the story. And so I think for all of us as women, like just because it's not recorded in men's history doesn't mean it didn't fucking happen. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Thank you. That is where we have to start. We have to start by understanding that just because the fact that it was not written down does not mean it did not happen. And that is key and central to understanding the heart of her book, which is that the history that we know, which starts when we start writing, which is where she says here, she says history making is a historical creation that dates from the invention of writing in ancient Mesopotamia. And by the time, as we'll walk through this history, you'll start to see by the time we actually had writing become invented, we already had quite a while of women being moved into these roles, into these patriarchal roles of domination by men. And so by the time we start writing history, it's just assumed this is the way the world is. But she takes us back to the very beginning of saying, no, no, no, women, as half, if not more than half, of the population have always been central to the workings and the functions of life on this planet and this species.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I love how she uses not just what we know and can, you know, kind of make conjecture about as far as when written history started. I mean, it gives us a lot of clues, but she also goes into archaeological and anthropological information of what we can glean. How did we go from the mother goddess worship to no, God's a dude and he created without a woman? You know, the most impossible thing when we look at how life works, the most impossible thing is if a dude and his son are hanging out in a house and they're like, hey, let's create life. Like, no, doesn't happen like that.
SPEAKER_03And that's why this book was so deep and, you know, meaty for both of us, because Goethe really went and found, I think this book took over, I think it was like seven to ten years of her life's work poured into this. And it was because she felt so deeply about not just, you know, what have people conjectured, but what can we actually piece together. And so she just drives home at the beginning here that the most important thing is to understand that the recorded, and this is her quote, the recorded and interpreted record of the past of the human race is only a partial record in that it omits the past of half of humankind and it is distorted in that it tells the story from the viewpoint of the male half of humanity only. That alone, if you take nothing else from this episode, that is huge to understand that every time you are hearing something that is touted as history, it is not coming from an unbiased, purely balanced view of what was actually happening. And as we'll walk through it, you'll get to learn more about how that happened. So taking us back to kind of where she starts, you know, one of the some of the pieces, we're just obviously we're not gonna be able to touch everything in the book. I'll have more information on Substack. I created up even like a timeline that will walk you guys through a lot of this because there's just so much depth to this. But one of the things that blew my mind in the beginning was her talking about how, you know, in the beginning with Hunter-Gatherer tribes, there had to be a type of economic interdependency for people to survive. So it couldn't just be men creating and doing everything. It really was a team effort. And back then, the social structures were much less rigid or forced, and you really had to work together in a community to survive.
SPEAKER_00So it was kind of a meritocracy. It's like the people who are good at hunting go hunt. The people, I mean, there are very few biological imperatives other than, you know, the male has sperm and the female has eggs. Other than that, the skill level, and when you think of the tribes, they're they're pretty small, right? And so it's like everybody is needed.
SPEAKER_03Everybody is necessary. It was not the hierarchy that we see that gets developed later of like, well, somehow men have greater abilities. There was, and and I loved that she drove home this point that yes, there was a sexual division of labor in the beginning, eventually, as we get into um, you know, men hunting, women providing more of the gathering piece, but that that was not a like, oh, and women being the hunter-gatherer, sorry, the gatherers are somehow less than the hunters. Because if you look back at that time, women were such an important, important piece of those communities. Because the majority of the food was not necessarily coming from, you know, if you can just kill an animal, but you can't preserve it, if you can't use the hides, if you don't know how to create um containers to hold the things, you're up a creek without a paddle.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you can only eat so much will the beast at one time.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And so yes, all of those other skills and using the whole animal, it and and I think she mentioned how most of the calories, most of the daily sustenance came from the women, came from the gathering. And then, you know, it was a tribal effort to go and do the hunting and then the utilization. Like you said, it was a a completely different ecosystem. And especially when we think of how men go to work, like leave the family and go to work, and women stay home in this trad wife position. Like, no, this is so unnatural. This is not a natural progression. It's a very unnatural division.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And this idea that somehow she's not doing just as much in her role. That's what was emphasized is that yes, there was a sexual division because women got pregnant and had babies and ultimately were the ones that they were the only ones that could nurse. That's a huge point, too, that like blew my mind because she's like, you know, when you don't have formula, then yes, you, as the woman that has had this baby, has to nurse that baby. That's where the food for the baby comes from. So, but she emphasizes that this was strictly from biological sex differences. It was not differences in strength or endurance. It wasn't like, oh, men are so much better at this, they should be going and doing this. It was solely reproductive differences and that men and women entered into these arrangements because they were functional, practical, and completely acceptable to both of them. And that is huge to understand that at that time, this was not a like, oh, you need to stay home, sweetie, but she really wants to. It was more like, yeah, this is what makes the most sense. I've got my skills and abilities here, you've got yours. And together we create this phenomenal team that survives.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's what a lot of men still think marriage is. Like, I've got this really good ability to make money, and you've got this ability to make a lot my life really good. So together, we're amazing.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And Gerda talked about, she talks about that later on of how like we have had all of these advancements that have changed the way we as human humans move through the world. Babies don't have to drink just milk from their mothers. Mothers can pump, bottles can be given by fathers. Women now, you know, we live in a world where we don't have to completely separate. I mean, most of us, we don't even have to make our own bread at home. You know?
SPEAKER_00What?
SPEAKER_03Like it's so I still make bread. I know, because you're amazing. But you don't have to. Okay. Okay. Everybody surviving does not depend on these roles. We it's just so the more we learned this history, the more I just saw through the irony of our current day dialogue around women's places needing to be something that was in the Neolithic time. Like we somehow haven't advanced in our way at all. And yet we don't still expect men to be out only spearing animals and do like that.
SPEAKER_00Right. When men want a trad wipe, I'm like, and I want a traditional man. I want you to go to war and die. Just kidding, just kidding. No. I want you to build me a house for real hands.
SPEAKER_03With your bare hands. Like this was a big aha moment for me where I was like, oh, there's the matrix. There's me peeking through the matrix and seeing through the game of us continuing in the 21st century to say women's roles are to stay at home and to nurse babies and to raise children when we live in worlds that look nothing like the world that we lived in previously. So that's a big first piece. But it is understanding, and I thought this was huge, that contrary to what we think of today, of like this is women's place, that is not how this was stepped into by women. This was stepped into from a we are equals. I have just as much of a contribution as you do in these ways that because of the world around us are necessary for us to survive. And that is key. Now, also, one of the things I loved from the beginning that was like, oh, so big was that back then the mother goddess was actually the beginning focus of like there it's almost like humans kind of understood like men had some role in it because there she was always like there was a son or a brother that was a part of initiating the creation, but the focus was on women and women being the source of life. There was deep reverence and um worship of women's bodies and witnessing life emerging from only the female body.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because when we think about it, if we knew nothing about biology, a woman might have sex, but it's months later, and the man may be gone. Maybe he went to that war and died, or traveled through and he's gone. And but I am having this baby. All of a sudden, yes. Yes. And when you take off the blinders of what we Now know it makes sense that oh my god, it's it's so divine. The the woman, she just sprouts forth, she has babies.
SPEAKER_03Yes. That that women were the life givers. And it took massive repression and violence to destroy over thousands of years to destroy the image of the mother goddess. That was something that as she documents deeply that, you know, back in the beginnings, we're gonna kind of jump around a little bit, but you know, there were priestesses, there were women in power. Um, for the hunter-gatherer communities, it it really was in the beginning too. It was more matrilineal. Power could be passed matrilineal matrilineal because women were seen in this equal important role.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03And in many ways, venerated almost in, especially religiously, in a godlike role because of their function to bring life. Yeah. Now that too was just like big for me. And then I so appreciate that Gerda, as we'll talk about, really walks us through how men steadily conscripted the idea of God and transformed God into their own image to justify their domination of women. When Gerda walks you, when Gerda walks you through it, you're like, oh, oh, there it is. There it is. Yeah. Now, where things start to change, okay, is when we start moving from hunting and gathering communities into agricultural societies. And we know this. This makes me think of diabolical lies. I believe they've talked about this too in the capitalism idea that like when land starts being able to be possessed and it's no longer shared, you know, as like a resource that like all humans get to have. But when it's like, I have ownership of land, this is my land, oh, then we start to get into the patriarchy furthering its aims. But to start, agricultural societies, when you get into that place where now we're not moving around, we're having to stay in one space, the harvest becomes unstable. It's subject to the climate, things changing. You know, now we have to preserve crops over several years. There's this very fragile period where there's a huge change going on for humans and where the survival of the group depends on having more people. Because if you need to farm, I mean, you know, Quinn.
SPEAKER_00Yep. I was a farm wife.
SPEAKER_03A farm wife, you need hands to work the land. So there is a shift in the psychology of now. I need bodies. I need humans. And what can produce humans? I know, I know, I know.
SPEAKER_00Tell me women, females, female bodies can produce more bodies. Exactly. And especially if you get a lot of them and then you just rape all of the vaginas, and then you can get lots of bodies.
SPEAKER_03Lots of bodies. I mean, this is this is the as we say that, I just, uh, right. Right. Ugh. This is where we're gonna start getting into like the the turning point of what our ancestors as women have experienced in patriarchal societies, which is when when this shift starts, and it really starts with tribes, you know, fighting each other. And in those fights, being able to procure women from neighboring groups. So women start becoming something that you can theft during intertribal warfare. And this is where we start getting more of a warrior culture emerging, more of this um, you know, women are now no longer something that is my equal, but something that I can take. And that is huge. One of another big point that Gerda makes in the book that blew my mind is she was like, the original slaves are women and children. They are what taught men that other people could be dominated and taught to believe that they were somehow less than and then kept in slavery as objects.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I mean, you go to war with another tribe, you're not gonna feed and clothe other, you know, men who could rise up against you and stab you in the back. No, you're gonna kill them, you're gonna castrate, you're going to, you know, immobilize the male population, and then you get all of those vaginas. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I actually I really love you saying that. Like you're gonna get all those vaginas. That is literally how women, as we will see over this process, start to be viewed. They are not actually a human as much as they are an object that I can own, that produces for me, or that I can sell, or that I can marry. If you are a man, this is the perspective of where women start to go. And so this switch, it's I think it's so important to understand that in the beginning, it was not this way for men and women. But here's where we start to move into this space where women are now valued for what they can produce. And we start to see them being acquired through these shifts in power. Okay. This is also where we start to see, you know, um, with agriculture, now we're kind of getting locked into these dynamics where we can have hierarchies, where we can have people that control things that other people need that they can then control other people through. And this is a, you know, when you have a harvest that has that requires seeds that came from a season before you. Now you have to be dependent on other older generations that hold the power. And this will come later, but this is really where we see this in the Bible of these patriarchs that hold the land and the resources and the women. And other younger men have to go to those patriarchs to get access to the land and the women. It's a centralizing of resources into these upper elites that hold the power. And then we start seeing the structure be built, which that power then filters down through into the heads of those male households that uphold it, because in order for them to get power, they have to get it from the upper elite men. And we'll talk about how women are stratified underneath that.
SPEAKER_00So, what's interesting is that like the guy on the top, he gets to have the concubines and he gets to have all the women's. And then he gets to give, you know, the women to the lesser men. So, like you said, like you've got to be good, you've got to be upholding this hierarchy to guarantee you get the resources, including a woman, that you want. And you look at how it's filtered down today and how many men are so pissed off that women can divorce them just because she wants to. Because it used to be you just show up and you're a man. And if you're a man that upholds the other men, you will get things. You get access. Yes. So there's a wife for you and a wife for you, and a wife for you. And now the women are like, um, I'm out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And she uh Gerda literally talks about this. I loved when you talked about how, okay, so in the beginning, when these tribes would take over other tribes, exactly, you don't have enough people to keep the men around. And slavery of men hasn't even been introduced introduced to the into the human psyche yet. So in the beginning, there's historical record from the way they see archaeological remains that show huge groups of men completely murdered. You know, when we uh think of the stories of like the Odyssey, and they will go in and wipe out whole groups of men. And then what do those tribal warriors get? They get their piece of the spoils, which is the women. And the women, um, typically the way that that's enforced is you immediately rape those women because then they are impregnated with a child that once that child is born, they are less likely to leave their own children.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, does that remind you of women considering divorce?
SPEAKER_03It just makes you start to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This caused me to really slow up and go, I want to start really questioning and examining these parts of our society that I took for granted as being I don't I want to say neutral or supportive for both me and my husband at the time. And as you start to look back, you go, oh, wait a second, wait a second. So I I definitely when you ask, you know, do I see this with women considering divorce? Yeah, I mean, there are plenty of women I have met who are like, if we did not have kids, I would have been gone yesterday. Like, yes, Gwen's raising her hand. Like many of us know that that is, and and it's important to understand that that has a link in our history as women. You know, that when we have a child with someone, that has been strategically used historically to keep us in place.
SPEAKER_00And not just thousands of years ago, you know, before no fault divorce. I mean, a woman leaves her husband for whatever reason. High likelihood he's gonna quickly get remarried and he's gonna have full custody and you will be you don't you don't get to see your kids again.
SPEAKER_03I mean, that happened as recently as Princess Diana. Right? Princess Diana's mother got divorced and was basically cut out of that family and cut out of her children's lives. So for and that I want to keep anchoring for us. Thank you, Quinn. On like, yes, this is not that long ago. We are not. I was definitely raised, I think, thinking, oh yeah, women with the illusion that women are equals. But what we see still are massive, the massive reality that patriarchy still infiltrates the majority of our marriages, the majority of our workforce, the majority of how we move through the world. Something else I really want to highlight here with you mentioning over and over, like this is recent. This is not when we say history, yes, we are talking about stuff that Gerda really talks about the creation of patriarchy happening over 2,500 years up until the present day. Or I think she might put it as 600 BC because her second book ties in. The numbers are not my favorite, but one of the things that she emphasized in mentioning that women were the pre, you know, the precursor to slavery is realizing that women can be taken and used as property. I want to emphasize here that for black women, this being used as the master's property sexually is as recent as in the last 150 years.
SPEAKER_00I mean, the transatlantic slave trade ended before slavery ended, but we got more slaves. How did that happen? Black women were raped into producing more slaves. And so, I mean, I can't even imagine the horror of that situation. But just because the Emancipation Proclamation comes out, it doesn't mean that everything suddenly changed. So we can't pretend that women of color, and not just the black women, but the Hispanic women, the Asian women, that that any disadvantaged woman has continued to be assaulted for the creation of more property for the man who owns her.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And it it is so recent. It is so recent. And I have no doubt that it's a good thing. It's still ongoing.
SPEAKER_01That's what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely, it is still ongoing. Absolutely. Let's let us be clear. We are speaking from a very privileged place in the US as white women, you know, but absolutely it is still happening in many countries throughout the world. Um, she I think she even spoke about that of like young girls in Asia being called little sisters, and it was actually sex trafficking of young women. Sex trafficking still happens in the US. Epstein. I mean, you know, it may not have been for um, you know, in the ways of raping. Exactly, but it is still a rape is still a tool used by men to subdue and control women. And the moving of young women and girls through rape into control by men. And it's such it, you know, I'm grateful that we're talking about it so openly because one of the things I said to Quinn of like why this is so important is because if we as women don't understand that this is absolutely where we came from, what is still happening to a great amount of our sisters' fellow women in the world today, I truly believe we are at risk of falling for the ploy again. Right. That is that is why these episodes are so important, because right now, especially in the US, we are seeing huge propaganda around women's places and women needing to be in the home, and that this is what God ordained, and this is their role in the world. And we have to realize it was not so far distant, depending on the privilege of your skin color, really, right? And that's something too that Gerda made made so powerfully poignant. This is another piece I wanted to drive home. In once patriarchy comes into play and women start becoming property, it divides women from each other. And it does it so well. Because when a woman is no longer her own self, she has no power within herself to control her world, to move through the world. That power lies, and in the beginning, it lied with her family, with her kin. It lied with her father, it lied with her brothers, and they could choose what to do with her, who to marry her off to. Um, it remember when Gerda talks about that point where she's like, fathers had ultimate authority in the patriarchal world with children, they could choose whether their children lived or died or not or not. And we and they saw massive numbers of female babies being left out to die. They could choose. Infanticide was allowed by the father, not by the mother. And as a woman, your only options really were staying within, you know, your father's household until he married you off. Maybe becoming a priestess. That was in the early ages. You could become a priestess. And many women, you know, that was actually a route that a lot of women took. We'll see women use that later on too, when women start going into convents as a way to have their reproductive rights kind of safe and away from men.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for watching.
SPEAKER_03But as we go, yeah, it was, it was a place for women who were like, I don't want a part of this. That was really your only other option. So in the beginning, women, it was either I could be married or I, you know, I'm taken over by another tribe, I become someone as a slave, or I get to be a priestess. As that goes forward, though, and as women are moved more and more out of the temples, as the kingships start, as they move men into higher roles, and women just keep slowly being moved out of power, queens and princesses just become like an appendage to their husband rather than having authority, and their authority only is vested from their husband. We start to see women women really falling into only three options, three roles that you had as a woman. You were either a slave or a concubine or a wife. That was the amount of options that you had.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So they took away the spiritual path, and you could be a vagina that got money, a vagina that got protection, or a vagina that got no money, and he can kill your kids.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So oh, nice. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it and and when I understood this, you know, Gerda drove home that this is the patriarchal bargain. She didn't call it that, but that's what we've been hearing. Like when women talk about the patriarchal bargain, when we've watched the women in Trump's cabinet be used and then discarded. This is the game that you have to play as a woman when you play within the patriarchy. And Quinn and I know this well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03This is the role of women within Mormonism.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Of women needing to be close to power and then help enforce that power by indoctrinating other women beneath them into this same power structure. Another fascinating way when we're thinking of the roles that are allotted to women, right? When you're thinking of, okay, you're either a slave, you're a concubine, or a wife, is the difference between the concubine and the wife is that the wife gets to rule over the concubine. The wife gets to have slaves herself.
SPEAKER_00So a certain level of power because of her pride.
SPEAKER_03And derives from other women being less than you. When we as women wonder in to today's day and age, like, why is there the competitiveness between women? Why is there the focus on men that just kind of infiltrates things? Like sometimes not even intentionally with girlfriends. I'm like, here it is, ladies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03For thousands of years, especially towards the not even thousands, because this took 2,500 years specifically, but for probably a good thousand years, it it really did get ingrained into women. Why would I have my sisters' backs? They are my competition.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And when you think about how long people lived, they weren't living a hundred years. So we're not talking about like 25 generations. We're talking about hundreds of generations because lots of women were dying in childbirth. Yes. Or diseases. Germ theory had not been thought of yet. So the turnover of women and of generations, it happened much faster back then than today.
SPEAKER_03Another piece that drove home for me just how much women were not seen as humans with their own rights. Was do you remember that part where she said like if a patriarch failed to pay off financial debt, he could legally pledge his wife or his concubines or his children as physical pawns to the creditor?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it's just property. It's valid property.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Yes. And that part too drove me because I was like, oh my gosh. How do you when we wonder why men, I see so many women that come to me on calls and are like, why does he not see me? Why is he not interested or curious about me or wondering about what I'm thinking? Or I met a woman on a 90 minute just this last week who was like I have this whole other world and life that is me that I keep hidden from him and he doesn't care to know. Not curious at all. Yeah. We know women in our community who have gone and done big things and like reached out to their husband to be like hey I'm going to do this thing. There's an opportunity afterwards for us to talk about it. And they're like yeah I'm I'm good. Yeah you do you and they're like why? What is it about me? And we internalize it. We think it is something about us and more and more dude Quinn after reading the creation of patriarchy I was like oh this runs far deeper this has roots back to the very real historical reality of men being married to wives that they felt fine being like, oh I gambled can't pay my debts here take my wife Yeah and then let's look at the other side of it.
SPEAKER_00Why are so many women so intensely interested in making their husband comfortable knowing his favorite things making sure that he doesn't feel bad managing his emotions making sure she takes one for the team and will just, you know, suck his dick just because he needs to and not worry about her own pleasure. She hasn't had an orgasm in a decade but it's it's okay.
SPEAKER_03You know, as long as you're okay it's safety it's safety I believe it goes I believe it goes really deep into the DNA that has been passed down genetically for those of us that are women that runs deep not only in our DNA but also the culture like and I love that Gerda makes this so clear where she is like I I would say it's passed down in our DNA from the trauma of generations of women who if you and Goethe made that clear if you as a wife did not put out sons if you did not manage your household if you talked back oh and that's so here's another big thing that I thought was like fascinating and Goethe emphasized this that the underpinning of so much of what makes this possible is the control of women's sexual reproduction so when a woman's value comes from whether she can produce children or not and and specific children male children. Male children and also do we not hear the echoes of this ring through the presidency in the US right now around women's birth women's birth rates which by the way I saw a stunning article on Subsack the other day from a black woman writer who was like let's notice it's all about white women's birth rates and I was like there's the patriarchy again glaringly but when it is about women's reproduction I loved that Gerda highlighted as shown in a lot of Bible stories that when you are the wife and you cannot produce you are more than happy for your husband the example she uses of Jacob and Rachel where Rachel can't bear why is you know I remember reading those stories Quinn and being like you know at the time I was so brainwashed that it was just like oh yeah of course she's devastated she can't have kids but also there was a part of me viscerally disgusted when Rachel's like here take my handmaid take my slave girl and fuck her so that you can have a child through her for me and you're sitting in Sunday school reading this and you're like yeah that's like totally makes sense like sounds like God's will I mean if God's a dude sounds like God's will and as she brought this up I mean it was just so like that part was hugely healing for me Quinn to have her be quoting the Bible and to now be pointing out like whoa this is where this these are the roots of this is not just God's will this is a system that has been in you and to trace it all the way back and then she gets you to this point where she's like okay so now let's get into the part where women are literally being like rape my slave girl so that she can have a baby for you through me so you don't throw me out. This is the relational violence that women were just like it it was normalized. It was expected it was the way the world was and it's so important to see that because we know now today that isn't the way the world is and if that's not the way the world is today and the women back then thought that was the only way the world can be, we know that the world we live in today can change.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I mean we say that's not the way the world is and I'm sure there's places where that's the way it is. But what I loved one of the things I loved about how she laid out the book is she talked about the Fertile Crescent where agriculture is starting to become a thing. And our oldest written law is Hammurabi's law. So from this time and you and you can see the progression of laws like there wouldn't need to be a law to not rape a nine year old if if raping nine year olds wasn't a problem. Like we wouldn't have laws against pedophilia if pedophilia wasn't a fucking problem or in our day and age there wouldn't need to be laws against marital rape if marital rape wasn't a problem.
SPEAKER_03But then you bring religion and you pour religion it's like the cement because it doesn't matter what the laws say what does God's law say yeah and she drove that home beautifully that in the beginning so especially so let's tie this back into the mother goddess right she's like getting rid of the mother goddess was very very difficult. Even though in the laws you're seeing it shift she talked about how remember when she talks about the statues like female mother goddess statues were preserved and kept for like thousands of years which showed that even though in the upper class people who could write that were writing down laws and making history even though they were saying this doesn't exist down in the roots of real human life, people still understood at a deep fundamental level the importance of women that was and that's another like huge glimpse into her point of like written history does not reflect reality. It is done through a skewed patriarchal lens. And it took thousands of years as we track that right where she talks about like women I love when you said there if there's a law for it, it means there was a reason. She emphasized at one point she's like we start to see all these laws come in about women's sexuality about women are what they're allowed to do, what they're not allowed to do. This is where we see the law come in about veiling that oh wives need to be veiled but women that are unmarried can't be veiled and she's like wait a second that does not protect women what that does is let all the men in the group know who are the vulnerable women that are unprotected by men. Oh, they're the ones not wearing the veils yeah because what if you rape a man's wife you're dead but if you rape a rando woman a rando or even his daughter it doesn't carry the same like she's not a wife yes no she literally I'll quote this part Gerda said adultery is possible only on the side of the wife because she is the property of the husband but it is not possible on the part of the husband because the wife owes faithfulness to her own marriage the husband owes faithfulness to another man's marriage yes that understanding that and she she does she does a beautiful job taking us through those pieces around adultery that we saw, you know, this is not just back in the Hammurabi code times this is pretty much present day the double standards of men's sexuality and women's sexuality and how it gets to be used and that women's sexuality belongs to their husbands. That is ancient that has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. And so when women today are you know the women that come to me and talk about having affairs and are like I feel so bad or just still the the different standards that we have for men around their decisions to have sex outside of their marriage and women.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah you see this for all generations and and what's challenging for me as a mother who was raised in the Mormon cult with certain standards and then going through my own exploration and then watching my daughters go through a certain exploration watching my sons going through a certain exploration noticing my thoughts about what's appropriate for my daughters and what's appropriate for my sons and owning the internalized misogyny and rules and really questioning it why like any kind of news story, any kind of scandal if if the rules were reversed would it be a scandal and having to really take a beat for myself to see that within me even now yeah and that our culture at large absolutely look at the Epstein files not a single man has been brought to heel for that oh but the woman was the woman right like so so all of our listeners listening to this episode like step with us into this knowledge into acknowledging that as much as and I think this this is so important right now too especially for women considering divorce because we live in a world where no fault divorce is just a it's it's kind of taken for granted like you can get divorced if you want to I've said this before on the podcast we know because it's in project 2025 that that may not be the case in the future and that's why they're coming for it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah they're coming for it like y'all they they know what has worked historically and they it's not that far of a reach. I think of everybody that like thinks of the handmaiden's tale and it's like this you know oh in the future this is what it's like but no that is the very real recent past that that is not a a made up story as much as it is a story pulled from history and just transplanted into our future as a possibility. I also want to say right here because this is something I wanted to say at the beginning of this episode that this is an episode that I hope our listeners share with sisters, best friends, with mothers, with women that you know because as Gerda emphasized if we don't understand this is where we came from, we are very likely to sit by and go, yeah, women have rights. Yeah, this is when it is only in the very very recent and we're talking you know the next episode we do we'll talk more about the current day I I actually have a lot of excitement around this because as you and I know Quinn I do see lots of movements right now around women um makes me think of the hot drop I did on Substack for my page subscribers where I said a panel of these women feminist women 12 years ago were like there doesn't seem to be that many women that care or seem to realize the rights that can be taken from them. I would not say that is the case I would say that's less the case now.
SPEAKER_01I think it is growing.
SPEAKER_00I mean having a felon and a pedophile in the White House and the number of times he's you know cheated on his many multiple wives and treated women horribly reversing Roe v. Wade coming after women's votes and having like mainstream male voices like Scott Galloway or who's that Canadian guy you get mad at a lot the psychology professor that you said is the Oh my god he's awful I don't remember his name but anyway there are these mainstream voices him who shall not be named him who shall not be named Voldemort but these are these are men who are saying the problem with the to solve the male loneliness epidemic is these women force women give give a woman to these men to every man and that is not that crazy it may sound crazy in the recent like 50 to 100 years of human history but the precedent is there.
SPEAKER_03And there are plenty of men that are are are open to that. And that's why it's like this episode more than anything too is to call women to the sisterhood. That's what Goethe was so passionate about was she was like why don't women band together and and and build something else how do we because what props up patriarchy is women's buying into it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I mean if we stopped all of our free labor and self-centered I mean we still take care of us and our children but we stopped doing extra paid labor to uphold the patriarchy and proximity to power like but when we're kids like I know that for me being willing to confront ice agents rather than holding my phone from a hundred yards away and filming them it's my kids who's gonna take care of my kids and so it's up to each of us to build that community to have other women holding of women that are showing up for each other.
SPEAKER_03Makes me think of a another woman I met last week um I actually had some quite a few 90 minutes come through this week and on it she said I said what do you dream of most in the future she's in her 50s considering divorce and she's like you know honestly I want to start a commune with a bunch of women and a pickleball court and a pool. And I was like where do I put my deposit like yes this this is what I want to see more of is and you know Goethe said that that remember she talks about this in the beginning I am gonna we're gonna jump around we've still got some history to cover but like this is where some juice is coming through right now. But I love that part in the beginning of the book when we talked about this that she basically uses this analogy of like oh the patriarchy has created this stage it's like there's a stage on which they are acting out their assigned roles they are pretending that they are the all-important ones and they have assigned to us as women these supportive roles and they have taken over the script writing they are the producers they are the directors and they are loving this script. I mean can we also just talk about how like men love watching other men in their dramas like it's another episode I saw on our another article I read on Substack around how like and I think Diabolical Lies was the one that talked about it how like men are just really out here loving each other. Like they are into each other. They love watching other men succeed and women are here to make other men look good for for those men that are like on that end of the spectrum I know this is not all husbands. I know there are men out there. I Quinn and Quinn often says she's like I can't believe you're dating one. Oh but it's Joe. Okay, Joe. And I'm like yeah there are men out there that are getting it but she makes this point where she's like this play requires half of the people on the stage to participate. And I love this line where she says when the women begin to realize that and instead cluster together between the acts or even during the performance to discuss what to do about this, the play will come to an end.
SPEAKER_00Oh brava.
SPEAKER_03Brava like yes this play of acting like men are the end all, be all deserve to have all the resources of the world behind them and to pretend like everything has come from them, which here's where we'll bring in the history is rooted in what we're gonna call the Genesis hit job which is you know up until the Bible a lot of this was happening at the you know at the law level and within the patriarchal family but it hadn't become doctrine it hadn't become the ethos of God is created in my image as a man. And that is where we get the hitchhob. This is where we move into really fucked up and weird shit in the Bible of like man is created by man. You know the seed is all encompassing calling the male fluid now seed the erasure of the mother the covenant from God only going to men the Abraham God old covenants with men he does not make covenants with women and you and I know the effect of that because in a in a patriarchal religion that's based on the Bible and reinforced by the magic book Joseph Smith wrote up same exact thing. The husband is the head of the household this is where we get the Adam and the Eve Adam sorry the Adam and the Eve I like that the Adam and the Eve story. Yes you know Gerda points out that the serpent at the time was representative of the female mother goddess sex goddesses. So of course the e the snake comes and tempts Eve and she is the fallen one can we just pause too good just for a second there because I really want to let that sink in
SPEAKER_00So women and our sexuality is so valuable and it's so vast. And it's not male sexuality light. It's it's this whole other creative force. Yes. And through mother goddess and all of this worship, there got to be this expression of this creative power of which our sexuality is just one part of it. And then to have the serpent being that representation in those cultures of that beautiful sexuality. And what I love about the image of the snake is that the snake, it grows and then it has to break out of its skin. Like it doesn't just continue to grow in the same skin. And so, you know, it has to molt and it crawls out of his skin and it's a whole new creature. And so this magic that women have of bleeding each month and becoming a new creature, becoming a mother and becoming the crone and going through these levels of life. And then for the men to take that image and be like, she listened to the snake. So now let's do this thing where God comes to Adam and he's like, dude, why'd you why why'd you partake of the apple or you know the fruit? And he's like, Well, the woman that you gave to me, she made me made me do it. And we're like, that's a leader? That that's who God chooses to be the leader is the one who's like, She made me do it. No, no, you pick Eve. Eve's obviously the leader. Anyway, I just love that image of the snake.
SPEAKER_03I I do too. And it makes me think of you saying, like, no, this is not the leader. I cannot take credit for this. This was another phenomenal woman I met on that 90 minute yesterday. I think the line was something like, we all know women are smarter than men. They're missing, you know, with that X, Y, they're missing an extra part of that chromosome. Because it's not two X's. I was like, she's like, there's part of that DNA missing for them. And I just was like, oh my gosh. Like, and let me be clear here too. Part of what we're doing in this beautiful, like big celebration of laughing at what patriarchy has served us. I want to be clear here that it does not mean I think, you know, Quinn and I have sons. I have a partner who is a man. I don't want to go to a world where we fucking do to men what they did to us. I think patriarchy is disgusting. Now that I understand what it is, the horrific history of rape and killing of children and women and people that are not in power by those in power, I want nothing to do with it. I don't even like really calling it a matriarchy because I think it just harkens too much to the idea that what we're advocating for is for women now to do to men what men did to women. No. What I what I see is the real reality and what you and I, what I experienced in my relationship with Joe, what you and I experience as women, is what it feels like to live in a world where you treat other people with mutuality. When you treat the planet with mutuality, when you understand I depend on you and you depend on me, and together we are stronger and we will, we both have power and we both have respect and we move in this fluid dance with each other. That is what the vision is. And that is why it is just such a joke when you finally see this, like, oh, the man must be the one that dominates the woman. And then what's hor like so just heartbreakingly horrific is what comes out of that for thousands of years post is men referencing the Bible, men pulling from the Bible. Aristotle going so far as to say, like, women are just deformed pieces of men. Just deformed men. Because they're missing a penis.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and Freud, everything you know, about women is just penis envy. I mean, there's just so much that that comes from that when you when you adopt a power over dynamic. So that even when men are like, I want true mutuality, I want real connection, it's so broken, it's really difficult. I'm but I think the only way we're going to be able to bridge that gap is for us to be working on it together. And there are a lot of men in marriages, like marriage was the was the end goal. And so they're like, I'm happy. I'm happy. I got what I wanted.
SPEAKER_03I got the ability to walk around the world saying I have a wife. And that raises me in the status of other men, and I have my tiny dominion. And I so agree with you that that's what's the most heartbreaking piece. I don't get to talk about this often because so much of my work is around women. But my heart goes out to the men that find themselves so fucked up by patriarchy right now that I think really genuinely believe they are good guys and want to be showing up and seeing their wives and think they are. But I don't know if it's just the programming or the amount of years that we've had, they can't seem to make that empathic click of really seeing and understanding what it is to view a woman as your equal, as an actual full human. And this just makes me think so much of when I was on Maya and Bialic's podcast, right? And I'm like, women want men to see them. And her partner Jonathan was like, I don't think men know what you mean when you say that. And as I've I'm like, yeah, no, they don't. They are literally, and until men can really step back and go, this is the reality of the history. That's why, too, I'm like, this episode needs to be shared with men as well. And from a perspective of like, you have to know women's history. You have to know what women have been through, what has been done to women through patriarchy, and then be willing to go, whoa, I have benefited just by my gender from a system, which we will talk about in an incredible movie on Netflix. That if you're like, I don't think my, you know, male partner would listen to this, we'll just have him go watch this show. We'll talk about it in the next episode. But they have to start wrapping their heads around the privilege that they cannot see because it's just the water they've always swam in.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And I see this with my college-age daughters and my college-age son, where I have great faith that my daughters will land on their feet. And my son, I'm there are parts of him that just refuses to be prepared for this life of being an adult. And but I know that he is statistically far more likely to land on his feet because we have this system where other dudes are gonna be there for him.
SPEAKER_03And where men can kind of certain men, privileged men, I want to be clear about this. Privileged men can fall up. They can stand on the shoulders. I mean, I mentioned this in my last episode. If I'd been a dude, I probably would have had seed money for my business by now. I would have had mentorship, I would have had somebody reaching out and being like, I see you, I got you, I want a piece of this. Let me, you know? So another piece I want to add in historically, especially when we're talking about the Bible coming in, is that it's so important to understand that when we really, when you brought up Freud and I brought up um, what was his name?
SPEAKER_00Aristotle.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I wanted, I was like, I need to remember his name because I want to create bumper stickers that say hashtag fuck Aristotle. I was like, can that be the new like underground feminist like hashtag that we you like that we use? Like if you know, you know. If a girl, if a woman says to you fuck Aristotle, you're like, oh, she's part of the resistance. Like and not even the resistance, the the breaking open and creating something new ends. But the real tragedy is that Gerda emphasizes, and I love that I talk about Gerda with her first name, like Gerda and I be close. I read this entire book, Gerda.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you, Gerda.
SPEAKER_03When we start getting into like humans, really, she tracks so beautifully along all of this that this is like human brains advancing, right? Like, even the ability to conceive of there being a one God actually shows a huge like advancement in the way our brains are working. But the tragedy is that it comes at this moment where men make this horrific mistake of going, oh, this is what the world looks like. This is what it was always meant to be. This is what is. And then you see the thinkers and the men who are advancing thought building from the flawed perspective that women are less than men. And they just run with that.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And when she talks about, you know, the pantheon of the gods and how, you know, there was this woman, and then, you know, Zeus overcomes that, and and then he's got all these kids, and he's raping, and he's pillaging, and he's handing out favors, and and and but you look at the the way their kingdoms are set up, oh yeah, there's there's a guy and he does the same thing. So it's about you know, men creating God in their own image.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's not that God created man in his image, it is the opposite when we track back through history. And we're not making this up, y'all. Goethe actually tracks the archaeological history. This is not made up. The Bible is history written by men. It is. Let us all just land there. Like, oh, do you see why this episode, why I why we this mattered? Because that is that is her point of just because history is written does not mean it is the reality, because there is, like you said, massive amounts of unwritten history that still exists, that still happened, still there. Now, when we get into the next episode, that's where we're really gonna take, you know, the next book is where she talks about the creation of feminist consciousness. And to just like preface like, what is feminist consciousness? A big part of what Gerda talked about is like, okay, well, if this system isn't great for women, then why don't women rise up and overthrow it? Why are they participating in it? Why are they propping it up? Why are they even a part of it, functioning in it, helping it continue? Because without knowing your history, you cannot come up into the consciousness of realizing, holy shit, I have been oppressed. This system is not fair. I am actually an equal. And so in the second book is where she starts tracking how do women find their way up and out, especially with you know, all the deck stacked against them. Literally, we'll go into detail around this for hundreds of years not being educated, not being taught how to read, how to write, while men are. That is literally, what's that quote where it's like step off my throat, right? Like we we wonder, and and I love in the second book, she'll emphasize this when they say, like, oh, so many, when you said I know so many great men in history, that is because women were actively suppressed. They would write things and they were destroyed. We'll get into the witch trials. Oh my God. I was like, oh, they really weren't witches. I I've known that for a long time, but another like young part of me from Mormonism was like, oh man, they were me and Quinn.
SPEAKER_00I know, I know. And to bring it, I mean, you talk about women not having the right for education and such. So recently, like I'm reading a book right now about, you know, when Radcliffe was created, which is one of the seven-sister um Ivy League schools for women, kind of the equal but separate, where you go get your MRS degree. So it's across the street from Harvard, but you're not in Harvard. And this is in the 1960s. 1960s.
SPEAKER_03Like, yeah, I mean, what? RGB. Mm-hmm. Go watch the documentary on her life. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is sitting in those law rooms by herself and experiencing discrimination because she is a woman, y'all. As much as we and I'm so glad you've caught us multiple times. I also want to like say clearly, y'all, as much as we talk about this as history, because a big portion of it is big, big takeaways to realize this is not just history. This is the lived daily experience. I I would offer this infiltrates, there's not a woman alive who this does not infiltrate her her world, the roots of this at varying extents, based on your privilege, based on the color of your skin. And that, oh, that is a piece that um, you know, when we look at the feminist movement, you were talking about this, Quinn. Like, why has it been so difficult for women to make these advances? Because we get split. We get split along all these different lines and wanting everybody to speak about it in a specific way or to understand it in a specific way. I hope that what this does, and what I thought, you know, Gerda really hoped women learning their history would do is it would open the way for us to go, you are my sister because you are a woman. And I even want to extend that to like LGBTQ, you know, people that see themselves as women expanding out into that view of understanding that the oppression and the subjugation of women through patriarchy, it has rippled out into subjugating anybody who is different from the white, male, heteronormative standard throughout history and all the way into today. It has far-reaching effects when we as women see that and we go, Oh, okay, I've got my sister's back. I can, like, like we did. I think I look at us and I'm like, oh, you can shed the patriarchy like a snakeskin. Like, talk about two women that came from high control, high patriarchal, like take us back to these kind of worlds in present-day situations, brainwashed in it from birth. And yet here we stand on a podcast being like, oh my God, obviously pick Eve, duh.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I remember the first time you brought up wanting to do this podcast, and you said, I want to talk about the cult of patriarchy. And, you know, for me, cult has a very specific, you know, scientific definitional meaning. And I'm like, I don't know if it fits, you know, cult specifically. But when we think of cult more generally with the brainwashing and this gaslighting of what's real, what's not real, there's so much gaslighting that happens in these marriages where women are trying to decide to stay or go. And I don't know that it's intentional gaslighting, but it has happened for so many generations that the man can experience the same marriage, and it can just be such a good marriage, and it's just fine. And I'll work on this for as long as it takes the rest of my life. And the woman can be saying, I've been working on this for the last 10 years, 20 years, it's not getting any better, it's actually getting worse. And, you know, we have such different views because the fog of the patriarchy through which we're trying to view each other.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Absolutely. And that what appeared natural historically has actually been created through an unexamined assumption that a political stereotype represented a biological reality. And because of that, we have seen the things we're going to talk about: institutions denying women equal rights, access to privilege, access to educations. That is the conversation I hope so many of us coming off of this episode are able to start having. And more than anything, be able to hopefully, I hope so many of you are now educated when people are like, the patriarchy isn't real. Why is everybody saying there's a patriarchy? You're like, nah. Nah. Do not gaslight me. That we don't somehow live, that this is just the way the world is. No. Something that has been justified as natural for millennia and enforced through religions, even though it was entirely as proved by Goethe, artificially and politically constructed. And religion. Yes. And religion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I don't know that it could have withstood the political without the religion. Like the religion is so sticky when it's not, you don't have to justify it at all. It's just when it's from God. God said.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Can't question God. You're welcome.
SPEAKER_03But you and I do. We question God all the time.
SPEAKER_00Oh, we're getting along, she and I, now.
SPEAKER_03Now that I know who she really is, they are. I love thinking of God as they now. I'm like, oh, I just I see a way forward. And this is the first step is learning our history. So please send this to the women you love, y'all. Send this to the women that are scroping around in the dark, going, you know, facing immense psychological exhaustion and self-hatred and feeling crazy because we live in a world that women are equal, yet we are all experiencing in our bodies and in our marriages the very real reality that that is not true. That is that is slapping a pretty face on a very ugly history and pretending like it has changed and we are all good now, without at all understanding the past.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03From a woman's perspective. I'm so grateful. Gerda, we love you. She passed away like twelve years ago, but man, sending you good vibes, babe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. She is our sister. Thank you for her.
SPEAKER_03She is our sister. All right, y'all. Next week we'll be diving in more to how does feminist consciousness come out of this? We've set the table for how rough of a hole women have been dug into. And yet, these bitches, you just can't keep them down.
SPEAKER_00Oh no.
SPEAKER_03You can't keep us down. Like, that is the most amazing comeback sea biscuit story of all is how women seabiscuit story. Dude, I love that story. I love that story. Just coming from behind women, like even with every bit of the patriarchy holding them down. There is no bigger example to me of how men and women are created equal and meant to be in mutuality than the fact that women have managed to claw our way back up. And I love Gerda in one of her interviews said something like, they were like, Well, women have been given rights now. And she's like, Oh, we haven't been given anything. We have had to fight our way for every scrap that we have gotten. And when you learn the history, you realize that is the case. Women have been burned at the stake for saying they have a right to interpret things their way through their lens. So we're excited to take you into that next piece and also bring you up to the present day. There are amazing things being put out there. Uh, we've got a couple shows that we like on Netflix that I'm just like, mmm, mmm, mmm, yes. Beautiful books. Quinn's been reading some of them recently that are just like, yes, this is getting out into the mainstream, and we want to be part of the voices that are fueling it. I hope you will be as well by sharing this with women. You love it.
SPEAKER_00Love sharing this and then looking for the women in your life that need you to be a girl's girl, a woman's woman who has her back and tells her to that she can believe in herself to go for it. Go for the big dreams. So beautiful.
SPEAKER_03All right, my loves. For those of you that are wanting to be in a place like that, there's no better place than the community. You right there, Quinn, you describing a place where women are like, go for it, babe. I've got your back. You can trust yourself. That is the community space. That is where Quinn and I get spoiled getting to be around so many amazing women. I am so privileged and honored to hold that space. So if you're like, yes, this episode has lit me on fire, where are my girls' girls? I have the perfect space for you. So text stay or go community to 33777 to head over there. And then if you're also wanting to work with me, one-on-one, 90-minute one-on-one coaching, links are below. Also, just have to say Quinn is back for the summer in the community doing tarot reading. OM.
SPEAKER_00Oh my God. Oh my God. Do not ask a question. You do not want the answer to. That's all I'm gonna say.
SPEAKER_03She does not take responsibility for what the cards show. The cards show what they show.
SPEAKER_00They just show what they show. We've had some jaws drop.
SPEAKER_03We definitely have. And as I said last week, huge gift to have such an incredible tarot reader as my bestie, someone who helped me see what I couldn't see two weeks ago, and an incredible gift that she's giving this summer while her course load is lower. Reading tarot in the community. So we'd love to meet more of you over there. I feel like in that community, we just are. Quinn said yesterday she was like, Brita, when are we doing a retreat? I need to see these women in person. And I was like, okay, and just be like, I got you. I got you. Yeah. It is life-changing to fall in love with women and to have their back and to show up for them. It's truly life-changing. Yes. All right, my loves. We will see you next week. Till then, sending much love.
SPEAKER_00All right. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_03I love you so much.