{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.18,"endTime":3.46,"body":"Welcome to another edition of"},{"startTime":0.18,"endTime":3.46,"body":"the Total Innovation podcast."},{"startTime":3.86,"endTime":6.03,"body":"As always, I'm your host, Simon Hill."},{"startTime":7.36,"endTime":10.69,"body":"I'm certain that innovators listening"},{"startTime":7.36,"endTime":10.69,"body":"to this show, of which I know"},{"startTime":10.69,"endTime":14.129,"body":"there are many, will have found"},{"startTime":10.69,"endTime":14.129,"body":"themselves facing countless barriers"},{"startTime":14.129,"endTime":18.249,"body":"when attempting to revolutionize"},{"startTime":14.129,"endTime":18.249,"body":"markets and change organizations."},{"startTime":18.949,"endTime":21.43,"body":"Our biggest challenge is"},{"startTime":18.949,"endTime":21.43,"body":"often to get management buy"},{"startTime":21.43,"endTime":23.3,"body":"in to prioritize innovation."},{"startTime":23.865,"endTime":26.505,"body":"And often prioritize the"},{"startTime":23.865,"endTime":26.505,"body":"right innovation as well."},{"startTime":27.065,"endTime":30.935,"body":"And once we're on our way with doing"},{"startTime":27.065,"endTime":30.935,"body":"that, to keep that commitment during those"},{"startTime":30.965,"endTime":36.975,"body":"complicated, elongated developments and"},{"startTime":30.965,"endTime":36.975,"body":"scaling phases of these new higher risks,"},{"startTime":37.045,"endTime":42.785,"body":"innovation initiatives in this podcast,"},{"startTime":37.045,"endTime":42.785,"body":"as always, we're speaking to a luminary."},{"startTime":42.834,"endTime":46.254,"body":"We're speaking to someone who's been there"},{"startTime":42.834,"endTime":46.254,"body":"and done it, who's researched it, and"},{"startTime":46.254,"endTime":48.245,"body":"has now written the book on this as well."},{"startTime":48.88,"endTime":53.47,"body":"We interview acclaimed author and"},{"startTime":48.88,"endTime":53.47,"body":"practitioner, Yves van Wolfen, on his"},{"startTime":53.47,"endTime":57.419,"body":"newest book, I say newest because he's"},{"startTime":53.47,"endTime":57.419,"body":"written several, several, Breaking"},{"startTime":57.42,"endTime":61.969,"body":"Innovation Barriers, empowering you"},{"startTime":57.42,"endTime":61.969,"body":"with 15 practical strategies to overcome"},{"startTime":61.979,"endTime":63.499,"body":"the main barriers to innovation."},{"startTime":64.049,"endTime":67.1,"body":"I've read it, it's great, it's"},{"startTime":64.049,"endTime":67.1,"body":"accessible, and I'm looking forward to"},{"startTime":67.11,"endTime":69.4,"body":"digging into it with, with Yves today."},{"startTime":70.065,"endTime":72.975,"body":"You'll learn how to win the buy"},{"startTime":70.065,"endTime":72.975,"body":"in of managers and investors,"},{"startTime":73.015,"endTime":77.235,"body":"transforming your vision and dreams"},{"startTime":73.015,"endTime":77.235,"body":"into that tangible reality that we"},{"startTime":77.235,"endTime":79.975,"body":"all really want as innovators, but"},{"startTime":77.235,"endTime":79.975,"body":"we don't want to work in theory."},{"startTime":79.975,"endTime":82.184,"body":"We want to work in, in impact and outcome."},{"startTime":83.144,"endTime":87.054,"body":"So welcome a LinkedIn luminary"},{"startTime":83.144,"endTime":87.054,"body":"with over 300, 000 followers."},{"startTime":87.214,"endTime":89.024,"body":"People seem to love what you have to say."},{"startTime":89.165,"endTime":89.245,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":92.795,"endTime":94.635,"body":"Thank you, Simon for the warm welcome."},{"startTime":94.635,"endTime":95.195,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":95.205,"endTime":95.685,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":95.725,"endTime":96.155,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":96.235,"endTime":101.905,"body":"So we, we caught up beforehand and"},{"startTime":96.235,"endTime":101.905,"body":"we have a, we have a fun guest today."},{"startTime":101.905,"endTime":105.115,"body":"Someone who likes to, you know,"},{"startTime":101.905,"endTime":105.115,"body":"that's the subject matter serious."},{"startTime":105.115,"endTime":105.445,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":105.445,"endTime":109.735,"body":"But we have to also, you know, take a"},{"startTime":105.445,"endTime":109.735,"body":"little bit of humor and a little bit"},{"startTime":109.735,"endTime":111.835,"body":"of, of humility in the way that we work."},{"startTime":111.835,"endTime":114.565,"body":"But for folks that don't know you,"},{"startTime":111.835,"endTime":114.565,"body":"can you just quickly introduce"},{"startTime":114.565,"endTime":115.965,"body":"yourself to the listeners?"},{"startTime":116.66,"endTime":120.49,"body":"Simon here is a frustrated innovator."},{"startTime":122.18,"endTime":123.44,"body":"That's what I was."},{"startTime":124.089,"endTime":124.94,"body":"Come on."},{"startTime":124.999,"endTime":126.399,"body":"I started in business."},{"startTime":126.399,"endTime":128.139,"body":"I was a business economist."},{"startTime":128.139,"endTime":132.41,"body":"I started as marketeer and then"},{"startTime":128.139,"endTime":132.41,"body":"you come at old companies, food"},{"startTime":132.44,"endTime":134.03,"body":"companies who need to innovate."},{"startTime":134.799,"endTime":138.79,"body":"And they only said no,"},{"startTime":134.799,"endTime":138.79,"body":"no, no, no, no, no to me."},{"startTime":139.53,"endTime":140.559,"body":"It was so frustrating."},{"startTime":140.559,"endTime":141.859,"body":"I couldn't get it at all."},{"startTime":142.66,"endTime":148.54,"body":"And I left after eight years,"},{"startTime":142.66,"endTime":148.54,"body":"food industry become a consultant."},{"startTime":148.56,"endTime":152.69,"body":"But you know, a consultant"},{"startTime":148.56,"endTime":152.69,"body":"is great until you leave."},{"startTime":152.75,"endTime":156.87,"body":"Then afterwards, nothing happens at the"},{"startTime":152.75,"endTime":156.87,"body":"client because the project was yours."},{"startTime":158.06,"endTime":162.66,"body":"And then after being, you know, working 15"},{"startTime":158.06,"endTime":162.66,"body":"years, adding no value at all, I thought,"},{"startTime":162.7,"endTime":168.25,"body":"come on, I must try to solve this thing,"},{"startTime":162.7,"endTime":168.25,"body":"this fuzzy front end of innovation."},{"startTime":168.26,"endTime":171.82,"body":"How can you get those great"},{"startTime":168.26,"endTime":171.82,"body":"ideas in and get them realized?"},{"startTime":171.829,"endTime":175.39,"body":"Then I made method, I"},{"startTime":171.829,"endTime":175.39,"body":"first studied creativity."},{"startTime":175.399,"endTime":178.64,"body":"It's not called design thinking,"},{"startTime":175.399,"endTime":178.64,"body":"but in my time it was pre"},{"startTime":178.64,"endTime":180.33,"body":"YouTube, it was called creativity."},{"startTime":180.46,"endTime":185.01,"body":"And I made it merge business thinking"},{"startTime":180.46,"endTime":185.01,"body":"and creative thinking, design thinking."},{"startTime":185.01,"endTime":188.079,"body":"And then I, yeah, started to"},{"startTime":185.01,"endTime":188.079,"body":"make methodologies and, um."},{"startTime":189.63,"endTime":193.35,"body":"After six books, I thought,"},{"startTime":189.63,"endTime":193.35,"body":"Oh, it's, it's done, Simon."},{"startTime":193.35,"endTime":197.92,"body":"I'm ready, ready to retire on create"},{"startTime":193.35,"endTime":197.92,"body":"with the beautiful white mountains."},{"startTime":197.92,"endTime":202.64,"body":"And then I got to Milano and the"},{"startTime":197.92,"endTime":202.64,"body":"energy got flowing in and I still"},{"startTime":202.64,"endTime":207.899,"body":"see all the innovators struggling"},{"startTime":202.64,"endTime":207.899,"body":"with the same thing, hitting their"},{"startTime":207.899,"endTime":210.13,"body":"heads on the barriers of innovation."},{"startTime":210.139,"endTime":212.459,"body":"And those barriers are"},{"startTime":210.139,"endTime":212.459,"body":"inside your company."},{"startTime":212.94,"endTime":216.39,"body":"They're not outside, the"},{"startTime":212.94,"endTime":216.39,"body":"enemy even is inside."},{"startTime":216.39,"endTime":219.26,"body":"I said, Oh, come on guys,"},{"startTime":216.39,"endTime":219.26,"body":"do another effort and try"},{"startTime":219.26,"endTime":221.359,"body":"to write down your learning."},{"startTime":221.37,"endTime":226.679,"body":"So yeah, so I made kind of 15 strategies"},{"startTime":221.37,"endTime":226.679,"body":"to, to, to win management buy in."},{"startTime":226.679,"endTime":231.349,"body":"So what I like is to make you a better"},{"startTime":226.679,"endTime":231.349,"body":"innovator and then, you know, tell"},{"startTime":231.349,"endTime":233.369,"body":"about my mistakes, my learnings."},{"startTime":233.714,"endTime":238.774,"body":"In the hope that you will learn faster"},{"startTime":233.714,"endTime":238.774,"body":"and then have more impact than I"},{"startTime":238.774,"endTime":243.084,"body":"did in my career, a little bit less"},{"startTime":238.774,"endTime":243.084,"body":"frustrated, I guess, by the time we get,"},{"startTime":243.105,"endTime":247.794,"body":"uh, you know, writing about it helps"},{"startTime":243.105,"endTime":247.794,"body":"Simon writing about it really helps."},{"startTime":247.804,"endTime":248.435,"body":"So that's good."},{"startTime":248.984,"endTime":250.294,"body":"There was another book of therapy."},{"startTime":250.294,"endTime":250.755,"body":"That's good."},{"startTime":250.834,"endTime":251.284,"body":"That's good."},{"startTime":252.485,"endTime":253.435,"body":"Why don't we start?"},{"startTime":253.435,"endTime":256.855,"body":"Because I, you know, I've, I've, I've"},{"startTime":253.435,"endTime":256.855,"body":"thrown this stat around a lot, but"},{"startTime":256.855,"endTime":259.215,"body":"it's, it's a, it's a thing, right?"},{"startTime":259.215,"endTime":262.015,"body":"Is that people don't really know"},{"startTime":259.215,"endTime":262.015,"body":"even what we're meaning when we"},{"startTime":262.015,"endTime":263.594,"body":"talk about what is innovation."},{"startTime":263.595,"endTime":266.254,"body":"So there's lots of different"},{"startTime":263.595,"endTime":266.254,"body":"interpretations of it."},{"startTime":266.295,"endTime":269.659,"body":"There's some very purists around out"},{"startTime":266.295,"endTime":269.659,"body":"there that will say it's just this."},{"startTime":269.659,"endTime":271.715,"body":"It's just, it's just,"},{"startTime":269.659,"endTime":271.715,"body":"just a specific thing."},{"startTime":272.045,"endTime":272.985,"body":"What's your definition?"},{"startTime":273.135,"endTime":273.785,"body":"Let's start."},{"startTime":274.305,"endTime":275.485,"body":"Yeah, that's a good question."},{"startTime":275.485,"endTime":276.435,"body":"Great to start with that."},{"startTime":276.465,"endTime":281.245,"body":"Now, for me, you know,"},{"startTime":276.465,"endTime":281.245,"body":"getting ideas is creativity."},{"startTime":281.295,"endTime":282.325,"body":"That's not innovation."},{"startTime":284.38,"endTime":287.73,"body":"Developing new new tech is invention."},{"startTime":287.75,"endTime":288.79,"body":"That's not innovation."},{"startTime":289.169,"endTime":295.539,"body":"Innovation is transforming ideas on"},{"startTime":289.169,"endTime":295.539,"body":"new tech into reality with impact."},{"startTime":295.539,"endTime":297.609,"body":"So that's what, for me, innovation is."},{"startTime":297.629,"endTime":302.249,"body":"It's transforming ideas or transforming"},{"startTime":297.629,"endTime":302.249,"body":"technology into reality with impact."},{"startTime":303.009,"endTime":307.18,"body":"And what I've noticed is that innovation"},{"startTime":303.009,"endTime":307.18,"body":"is so much more than what it was"},{"startTime":307.18,"endTime":311.67,"body":"30, 40 years ago, innovation was"},{"startTime":307.18,"endTime":311.67,"body":"kind of R and D product innovation."},{"startTime":312.86,"endTime":317.04,"body":"And then we got service innovations in"},{"startTime":312.86,"endTime":317.04,"body":"the nineties and the two thousands, and"},{"startTime":317.04,"endTime":319.0,"body":"then we got business model innovation."},{"startTime":319.38,"endTime":324.849,"body":"And now, you know, with the ESG"},{"startTime":319.38,"endTime":324.849,"body":"so dominant sustainability, so"},{"startTime":324.849,"endTime":328.909,"body":"dominant, we also got social"},{"startTime":324.849,"endTime":328.909,"body":"innovation, organizational innovation."},{"startTime":329.349,"endTime":335.07,"body":"So I now see it much more broader"},{"startTime":329.349,"endTime":335.07,"body":"than 20, 30, 40 years ago."},{"startTime":335.43,"endTime":341.01,"body":"So anything which is new and can"},{"startTime":335.43,"endTime":341.01,"body":"create impact is for me, innovation."},{"startTime":342.205,"endTime":345.095,"body":"And I guess in that frustration"},{"startTime":342.205,"endTime":345.095,"body":"piece, which we'll dig into in a"},{"startTime":345.095,"endTime":349.225,"body":"second, it was that impactful bit"},{"startTime":345.095,"endTime":349.225,"body":"that you found so frustrating, right?"},{"startTime":349.225,"endTime":356.134,"body":"Like kind of how do you get to, to scaled"},{"startTime":349.225,"endTime":356.134,"body":"impact because there's lots of ideas, but"},{"startTime":356.145,"endTime":357.754,"body":"how do you get the, get them to market?"},{"startTime":358.29,"endTime":362.05,"body":"Well, I, you know, that best, uh,"},{"startTime":358.29,"endTime":362.05,"body":"you know, uh, you know, everything"},{"startTime":362.05,"endTime":363.87,"body":"about stage gates that was so cool."},{"startTime":363.87,"endTime":364.17,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":364.42,"endTime":368.21,"body":"And you know, that's on average"},{"startTime":364.42,"endTime":368.21,"body":"out of, in a standard state gate"},{"startTime":368.21,"endTime":372.539,"body":"projects, out of the three ideas we"},{"startTime":368.21,"endTime":372.539,"body":"get in one gets out at best, right?"},{"startTime":372.569,"endTime":373.179,"body":"If you're lucky."},{"startTime":373.25,"endTime":373.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":373.95,"endTime":374.699,"body":"If you're lucky."},{"startTime":374.84,"endTime":377.994,"body":"Well, That's a lot of"},{"startTime":374.84,"endTime":377.994,"body":"frustration in there."},{"startTime":378.475,"endTime":381.194,"body":"And that's a lot of blocking in there."},{"startTime":381.194,"endTime":385.194,"body":"And that's a lot of, and we say, yes,"},{"startTime":381.194,"endTime":385.194,"body":"yes, no, but we learn from their failures."},{"startTime":385.255,"endTime":390.135,"body":"Uh, we don't make companies make the"},{"startTime":385.255,"endTime":390.135,"body":"same mistake again and again and again"},{"startTime":390.135,"endTime":395.094,"body":"and again, and I tried to solve this to"},{"startTime":390.135,"endTime":395.094,"body":"make it quicker, to make it more fun."},{"startTime":395.434,"endTime":396.744,"body":"And also another, the."},{"startTime":397.465,"endTime":400.645,"body":"You know, an innovative"},{"startTime":397.465,"endTime":400.645,"body":"workplace is a great workplace."},{"startTime":402.445,"endTime":405.575,"body":"It's where there are possibilities"},{"startTime":402.445,"endTime":405.575,"body":"and opportunities instead of"},{"startTime":405.965,"endTime":409.725,"body":"where there are politics and"},{"startTime":405.965,"endTime":409.725,"body":"rules and bureaucratic things."},{"startTime":410.98,"endTime":411.94,"body":"So let's dig into that."},{"startTime":411.94,"endTime":414.3,"body":"You've been there and done"},{"startTime":411.94,"endTime":414.3,"body":"it as a frustrated innovator."},{"startTime":414.68,"endTime":417.27,"body":"And I'm sure in reflection, there's"},{"startTime":414.68,"endTime":417.27,"body":"things that you would have done"},{"startTime":417.27,"endTime":420.139,"body":"differently, maybe with different"},{"startTime":417.27,"endTime":420.139,"body":"outcomes, maybe not right."},{"startTime":420.139,"endTime":424.629,"body":"But no, no, I would for certain"},{"startTime":420.139,"endTime":424.629,"body":"the voice of experience that"},{"startTime":424.63,"endTime":427.49,"body":"we're not going to impart on"},{"startTime":424.63,"endTime":427.49,"body":"others through this conversation."},{"startTime":427.83,"endTime":429.49,"body":"But, but why do you, why is it so?"},{"startTime":429.755,"endTime":432.525,"body":"Difficult then, you know, companies"},{"startTime":429.755,"endTime":432.525,"body":"will say we're investing so much."},{"startTime":432.525,"endTime":433.974,"body":"We're hiring these great people."},{"startTime":433.974,"endTime":437.125,"body":"We're backing them and in all the ways"},{"startTime":433.974,"endTime":437.125,"body":"that we can but we're not getting the"},{"startTime":437.135,"endTime":440.275,"body":"outputs that we want whether that's,"},{"startTime":437.135,"endTime":440.275,"body":"you know, sufficient conversion"},{"startTime":440.275,"endTime":444.585,"body":"rates or ROI or whatever it might"},{"startTime":440.275,"endTime":444.585,"body":"be from a innovation perspective."},{"startTime":444.585,"endTime":444.914,"body":"Why is it?"},{"startTime":444.984,"endTime":445.834,"body":"Why is it so difficult?"},{"startTime":447.164,"endTime":451.564,"body":"It's difficult because"},{"startTime":447.164,"endTime":451.564,"body":"you can't invent alone."},{"startTime":452.124,"endTime":456.295,"body":"And you can ideate alone,"},{"startTime":452.124,"endTime":456.295,"body":"but in an organization, think"},{"startTime":456.295,"endTime":457.495,"body":"of your own organization."},{"startTime":457.505,"endTime":461.315,"body":"Now, how many people you need"},{"startTime":457.505,"endTime":461.315,"body":"transforming an idea into reality?"},{"startTime":461.345,"endTime":466.724,"body":"How many, how many departments,"},{"startTime":461.345,"endTime":466.724,"body":"how many countries, how many"},{"startTime":466.734,"endTime":470.624,"body":"bosses you need to inform, how many"},{"startTime":466.734,"endTime":470.624,"body":"committees you meet to inform, right?"},{"startTime":471.494,"endTime":475.094,"body":"And that's where the problem"},{"startTime":471.494,"endTime":475.094,"body":"is because in innovation,"},{"startTime":477.125,"endTime":480.205,"body":"you like an idea, but"},{"startTime":477.125,"endTime":480.205,"body":"do you really love it?"},{"startTime":480.364,"endTime":481.825,"body":"Do you really want to go for it?"},{"startTime":482.355,"endTime":483.805,"body":"Is it really yours?"},{"startTime":483.825,"endTime":485.185,"body":"Is there really ownership?"},{"startTime":486.135,"endTime":491.475,"body":"Are you willing to even put your"},{"startTime":486.135,"endTime":491.475,"body":"career at stake for this big"},{"startTime":491.475,"endTime":493.045,"body":"thing you want to launch or not?"},{"startTime":493.654,"endTime":495.725,"body":"A lot of people think, no, no, no, no, no."},{"startTime":495.774,"endTime":498.325,"body":"Ooh, way too risky, right?"},{"startTime":498.704,"endTime":503.175,"body":"So it's the most important thing"},{"startTime":498.704,"endTime":503.175,"body":"is getting management buy in."},{"startTime":504.06,"endTime":507.24,"body":"And I did a, I did a, uh, on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":507.24,"endTime":510.57,"body":"I did a poll in 2023,"},{"startTime":507.24,"endTime":510.57,"body":"and that triggered me."},{"startTime":511.419,"endTime":513.25,"body":"Why does innovation stops?"},{"startTime":513.25,"endTime":519.179,"body":"Innovation stops because of"},{"startTime":513.25,"endTime":519.179,"body":"a lack of feasibility in 8%."},{"startTime":519.27,"endTime":521.909,"body":"Only 8% was feasibility."},{"startTime":522.89,"endTime":525.199,"body":"52% was a lack of management buy-in."},{"startTime":526.055,"endTime":531.035,"body":"Then you had to slow 15% and"},{"startTime":526.055,"endTime":531.035,"body":"the rest, rest, uh, rest of um,"},{"startTime":531.064,"endTime":532.805,"body":"um, a lack of business model."},{"startTime":534.015,"endTime":537.645,"body":"But when you add it too slow to"},{"startTime":534.015,"endTime":537.645,"body":"the 52% of lack of management"},{"startTime":537.675,"endTime":540.045,"body":"buyin, it's around 70% right."},{"startTime":540.925,"endTime":545.315,"body":"It's only because we don't dare"},{"startTime":540.925,"endTime":545.315,"body":"to, we, because we don't want to,"},{"startTime":545.315,"endTime":550.025,"body":"because we think it's too risky"},{"startTime":545.315,"endTime":550.025,"body":"because we don't believe in it."},{"startTime":550.835,"endTime":554.625,"body":"It are the soft things in innovation,"},{"startTime":550.835,"endTime":554.625,"body":"which are the hard things."},{"startTime":554.634,"endTime":558.594,"body":"I like that phrase, the soft"},{"startTime":554.634,"endTime":558.594,"body":"things, which are the hard things."},{"startTime":558.594,"endTime":561.215,"body":"And maybe we should, we should dig into"},{"startTime":558.594,"endTime":561.215,"body":"that because this is where we start to"},{"startTime":561.215,"endTime":563.025,"body":"get into some of the frameworks around."},{"startTime":563.675,"endTime":565.615,"body":"The book and other things as well."},{"startTime":565.854,"endTime":569.415,"body":"Let's talk about those, those, those"},{"startTime":565.854,"endTime":569.415,"body":"main innovation barriers that you"},{"startTime":569.415,"endTime":571.145,"body":"talk about management buying, right."},{"startTime":571.175,"endTime":575.635,"body":"And as, as one, as one of the primary"},{"startTime":571.175,"endTime":575.635,"body":"ones, I guess a lot of managers"},{"startTime":575.635,"endTime":579.915,"body":"would sit there thinking, but we do"},{"startTime":575.635,"endTime":579.915,"body":"buy in, we do, we do some things or."},{"startTime":580.295,"endTime":583.185,"body":"We did buy into this thing and it,"},{"startTime":580.295,"endTime":583.185,"body":"you know, it never turned out in the"},{"startTime":583.185,"endTime":586.604,"body":"right way for us in some, in some"},{"startTime":583.185,"endTime":586.604,"body":"way, shape or form, there's a lot of"},{"startTime":586.604,"endTime":592.035,"body":"complexity to peel back in that concept"},{"startTime":586.604,"endTime":592.035,"body":"of just management buy in, right?"},{"startTime":592.185,"endTime":593.624,"body":"Like, what does that sense mean?"},{"startTime":593.625,"endTime":594.874,"body":"How does it manifest itself?"},{"startTime":594.874,"endTime":597.344,"body":"So then we can peel that"},{"startTime":594.874,"endTime":597.344,"body":"onion back a little bit in"},{"startTime":597.345,"endTime":599.045,"body":"terms of innovation barriers."},{"startTime":599.614,"endTime":603.194,"body":"And before I like to do, I like to say,"},{"startTime":599.614,"endTime":603.194,"body":"you know, this is not complaining against"},{"startTime":603.194,"endTime":607.724,"body":"management because I am, you know, I"},{"startTime":603.194,"endTime":607.724,"body":"am the age, I could be a CEO like you."},{"startTime":607.734,"endTime":608.925,"body":"So it's not about that."},{"startTime":608.925,"endTime":609.064,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":609.295,"endTime":613.085,"body":"You know, we also look at us because"},{"startTime":609.295,"endTime":613.085,"body":"if you point out at your manager,"},{"startTime":613.385,"endTime":617.005,"body":"one finger points out at him or her"},{"startTime":613.385,"endTime":617.005,"body":"and three point to yourself, right?"},{"startTime":617.954,"endTime":622.725,"body":"I want to talk to a CEO and say, Hey, I"},{"startTime":617.954,"endTime":622.725,"body":"got three problems with innovators, right?"},{"startTime":624.194,"endTime":626.184,"body":"It's always less than they promised."},{"startTime":628.384,"endTime":630.564,"body":"It's always cost more than they promised."},{"startTime":631.394,"endTime":633.915,"body":"And then they always deliver"},{"startTime":631.394,"endTime":633.915,"body":"less than they promised."},{"startTime":634.015,"endTime":634.224,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":634.944,"endTime":635.985,"body":"And that's what they do."},{"startTime":636.665,"endTime":641.624,"body":"And also, you know, a lot of managers"},{"startTime":636.665,"endTime":641.624,"body":"are deeply disappointed in innovation"},{"startTime":641.624,"endTime":644.544,"body":"and their innovation efforts,"},{"startTime":641.624,"endTime":644.544,"body":"and their willingness to do so."},{"startTime":644.544,"endTime":651.164,"body":"But somehow they, the system is too big"},{"startTime":644.544,"endTime":651.164,"body":"or too complicated, or it is too politic"},{"startTime":651.175,"endTime":654.755,"body":"or, or they just can't get it done."},{"startTime":656.805,"endTime":661.474,"body":"So the barriers, first of all,"},{"startTime":656.805,"endTime":661.474,"body":"is understand your managers."},{"startTime":663.165,"endTime":668.194,"body":"When you are a researcher and you are"},{"startTime":663.165,"endTime":668.194,"body":"the innovation boss, what do you expect?"},{"startTime":668.825,"endTime":674.335,"body":"You expect new technology where you are an"},{"startTime":668.825,"endTime":674.335,"body":"engineer and you are the innovation boss."},{"startTime":674.345,"endTime":681.395,"body":"You expect any improvement which works"},{"startTime":674.345,"endTime":681.395,"body":"where you are a venture capitalist"},{"startTime":681.404,"endTime":683.355,"body":"guy coming in as an innovation boss."},{"startTime":683.355,"endTime":690.004,"body":"You want growth of the company, but"},{"startTime":683.355,"endTime":690.004,"body":"you're originally are a finance guy"},{"startTime":690.004,"endTime":691.565,"body":"and are now the innovation boss."},{"startTime":691.575,"endTime":692.045,"body":"You want"},{"startTime":694.845,"endTime":700.005,"body":"When you are a commercial guy and"},{"startTime":694.845,"endTime":700.005,"body":"you are now in an innovation, the C."},{"startTime":700.005,"endTime":702.195,"body":"The the C, no, the chief"},{"startTime":700.005,"endTime":702.195,"body":"innovation officer."},{"startTime":702.195,"endTime":707.235,"body":"You want satisfied customers and"},{"startTime":702.195,"endTime":707.235,"body":"when you come from human resources"},{"startTime":707.235,"endTime":712.305,"body":"and I grown up as the VP innovation,"},{"startTime":707.235,"endTime":712.305,"body":"you want internal people to feel"},{"startTime":712.305,"endTime":714.435,"body":"empowered to, to give their ideas."},{"startTime":714.855,"endTime":718.485,"body":"So mind you, do we know what"},{"startTime":714.855,"endTime":718.485,"body":"background our bosses have?"},{"startTime":719.485,"endTime":722.325,"body":"Do we know what is expected from them?"},{"startTime":723.314,"endTime":726.525,"body":"It's like, now you"},{"startTime":723.314,"endTime":726.525,"body":"celebrate Christmas, Simon."},{"startTime":726.555,"endTime":726.985,"body":"Come on."},{"startTime":727.454,"endTime":727.994,"body":"Oh, we do."},{"startTime":728.355,"endTime":729.055,"body":"Oh, we do."},{"startTime":729.414,"endTime":731.814,"body":"Now, do you make a Christmas list?"},{"startTime":733.314,"endTime":735.605,"body":"My children are busy making one right now."},{"startTime":735.605,"endTime":736.744,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":736.825,"endTime":738.644,"body":"I want this, this, this."},{"startTime":738.645,"endTime":739.684,"body":"The innovators do."},{"startTime":739.934,"endTime":742.835,"body":"They bring presents without"},{"startTime":739.934,"endTime":742.835,"body":"knowing what's on the list."},{"startTime":745.505,"endTime":747.605,"body":"They don't know what"},{"startTime":745.505,"endTime":747.605,"body":"management wants from them."},{"startTime":747.945,"endTime":748.905,"body":"Bring me innovation."},{"startTime":748.905,"endTime":749.575,"body":"Bring me something."},{"startTime":749.605,"endTime":753.66,"body":"But you know, the point is, Even"},{"startTime":749.605,"endTime":753.66,"body":"I, or even in the board, we don't"},{"startTime":753.68,"endTime":755.4,"body":"know what we want with innovation."},{"startTime":755.81,"endTime":756.03,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":756.03,"endTime":758.8,"body":"I was going to say, I was like, that's,"},{"startTime":756.03,"endTime":758.8,"body":"that's part of the challenge as well."},{"startTime":759.29,"endTime":763.42,"body":"So the challenge is, I know I want"},{"startTime":759.29,"endTime":763.42,"body":"EBITDA and I know I want growth and I"},{"startTime":763.42,"endTime":767.27,"body":"know I only got a limited innovation"},{"startTime":763.42,"endTime":767.27,"body":"budget of, let's say 5 million to spend."},{"startTime":767.579,"endTime":772.8,"body":"And then, so we all know the criteria,"},{"startTime":767.579,"endTime":772.8,"body":"but even does everybody in your"},{"startTime":772.8,"endTime":774.48,"body":"innovation team knows the criteria?"},{"startTime":774.53,"endTime":776.81,"body":"Do we know what we need to bring back?"},{"startTime":776.81,"endTime":777.09,"body":"So."},{"startTime":777.64,"endTime":779.77,"body":"One of the problems is"},{"startTime":777.64,"endTime":779.77,"body":"a lack of direction."},{"startTime":780.21,"endTime":780.45,"body":"Hmm."},{"startTime":781.66,"endTime":786.33,"body":"You as top management, you have"},{"startTime":781.66,"endTime":786.33,"body":"to give direction and freedom."},{"startTime":786.6,"endTime":788.31,"body":"You have to make an innovation assignment."},{"startTime":789.21,"endTime":790.8,"body":"I want something revolutionary."},{"startTime":790.8,"endTime":793.35,"body":"It can be a product, a"},{"startTime":790.8,"endTime":793.35,"body":"service, a business model."},{"startTime":793.47,"endTime":798.72,"body":"I don't mind, but it needs to bring back"},{"startTime":793.47,"endTime":798.72,"body":"a hundred million revenues and year three"},{"startTime":798.72,"endTime":801.69,"body":"after introduction with an EBITDA of 40%."},{"startTime":802.08,"endTime":805.505,"body":"Uh, I wanted to start in EA"},{"startTime":802.08,"endTime":805.505,"body":"first and then roll it out."},{"startTime":806.12,"endTime":810.66,"body":"All over Europe and the introduction"},{"startTime":806.12,"endTime":810.66,"body":"date needs to be in 2027."},{"startTime":810.66,"endTime":814.92,"body":"All right, that's a clear briefing"},{"startTime":810.66,"endTime":814.92,"body":"and then you can give the freedom to"},{"startTime":814.92,"endTime":818.92,"body":"the innovation team to provide you"},{"startTime":814.92,"endTime":818.92,"body":"with the content which fulfills that."},{"startTime":819.85,"endTime":823.55,"body":"Now, so, so clear you have to"},{"startTime":819.85,"endTime":823.55,"body":"make, but we have to help top"},{"startTime":823.559,"endTime":825.0,"body":"management to make that clear."},{"startTime":826.395,"endTime":827.785,"body":"And so that's one thing."},{"startTime":828.225,"endTime":829.075,"body":"I'm not a big thing."},{"startTime":829.355,"endTime":829.905,"body":"You think?"},{"startTime":829.905,"endTime":833.055,"body":"Sorry for cutting across you, but it's"},{"startTime":829.905,"endTime":833.055,"body":"something that we've discussed or I've"},{"startTime":833.055,"endTime":837.525,"body":"discussed with other guests on the podcast"},{"startTime":833.055,"endTime":837.525,"body":"is maybe one of the biggest challenges."},{"startTime":837.525,"endTime":838.515,"body":"And you mentioned this, right?"},{"startTime":838.515,"endTime":840.465,"body":"The Sino, the chief innovation officer."},{"startTime":840.465,"endTime":841.904,"body":"And it's actually a role that I have."},{"startTime":842.599,"endTime":845.79,"body":"Some problems with right because I"},{"startTime":842.599,"endTime":845.79,"body":"don't think there's ever going to be a"},{"startTime":845.819,"endTime":850.739,"body":"true c level Innovation role right true"},{"startTime":845.819,"endTime":850.739,"body":"c level right there may be a notional"},{"startTime":850.739,"endTime":855.029,"body":"one, but a true true one What I mean"},{"startTime":850.739,"endTime":855.029,"body":"by that is that that as a consequence"},{"startTime":855.03,"endTime":859.049,"body":"of wherever that reports up to which"},{"startTime":855.03,"endTime":859.049,"body":"is always problematic if it exists at"},{"startTime":859.05,"endTime":862.109,"body":"all Is that that person isn't really?"},{"startTime":862.435,"endTime":864.595,"body":"The true owner, because you"},{"startTime":862.435,"endTime":864.595,"body":"mentioned earlier, right?"},{"startTime":864.595,"endTime":866.115,"body":"There's different types of innovation."},{"startTime":866.115,"endTime":870.115,"body":"There's different outcomes that you're"},{"startTime":866.115,"endTime":870.115,"body":"trying to get, which actually horizontally"},{"startTime":870.145,"endTime":872.205,"body":"cuts across the innovation problem, right?"},{"startTime":872.205,"endTime":877.445,"body":"And in terms of thinking, and so maybe"},{"startTime":872.205,"endTime":877.445,"body":"the problem that we've got isn't just"},{"startTime":877.445,"endTime":880.744,"body":"management buy in, but that there isn't"},{"startTime":877.445,"endTime":880.744,"body":"management ownership even for this."},{"startTime":880.745,"endTime":882.485,"body":"And then this is interesting."},{"startTime":882.885,"endTime":885.185,"body":"Now sales is for today."},{"startTime":885.575,"endTime":886.895,"body":"Marketing is for tomorrow."},{"startTime":886.925,"endTime":888.885,"body":"And innovation is for"},{"startTime":886.925,"endTime":888.885,"body":"the day after tomorrow."},{"startTime":889.535,"endTime":891.584,"body":"Innovation is all has"},{"startTime":889.535,"endTime":891.584,"body":"to do about strategy."},{"startTime":892.135,"endTime":893.475,"body":"Okay, we are now today here."},{"startTime":893.485,"endTime":896.395,"body":"Where do I want to be a"},{"startTime":893.485,"endTime":896.395,"body":"CEO in five or 10 years?"},{"startTime":896.535,"endTime":898.584,"body":"Because that's the horizon"},{"startTime":896.535,"endTime":898.584,"body":"we talk about, right?"},{"startTime":898.704,"endTime":901.665,"body":"In five or 10 years, what's"},{"startTime":898.704,"endTime":901.665,"body":"going to bring me there?"},{"startTime":902.365,"endTime":904.795,"body":"More of the same won't bring me there."},{"startTime":904.805,"endTime":908.114,"body":"Otherwise we would need a strategy, right?"},{"startTime":908.755,"endTime":912.465,"body":"Strategy is always about doing different"},{"startTime":908.755,"endTime":912.465,"body":"things or doing things in a different way."},{"startTime":912.595,"endTime":917.285,"body":"So it's the innovation functions"},{"startTime":912.595,"endTime":917.285,"body":"which has to deliver on the strategy."},{"startTime":917.765,"endTime":920.515,"body":"So for me, there is only one"},{"startTime":917.765,"endTime":920.515,"body":"chief innovation officer."},{"startTime":920.515,"endTime":920.574,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":920.99,"endTime":927.87,"body":"That is the CEO and he or she should own,"},{"startTime":920.99,"endTime":927.87,"body":"you know, should own, uh, innovation."},{"startTime":929.18,"endTime":933.03,"body":"And of course, and he or she"},{"startTime":929.18,"endTime":933.03,"body":"needs to have a staff there."},{"startTime":933.77,"endTime":935.88,"body":"You don't need a chief innovation officer."},{"startTime":936.55,"endTime":941.384,"body":"You know, I think that when you have"},{"startTime":936.55,"endTime":941.384,"body":"the CTO on the technical side, The"},{"startTime":941.384,"endTime":943.594,"body":"CCO on the commercial side, right?"},{"startTime":944.435,"endTime":949.185,"body":"And the COO on the operational side,"},{"startTime":944.435,"endTime":949.185,"body":"it is the CEO can use his or her"},{"startTime":949.235,"endTime":951.514,"body":"power to combine those three things."},{"startTime":951.565,"endTime":953.384,"body":"And that's a sweet spot for innovation."},{"startTime":954.224,"endTime":958.724,"body":"Something which is new technically,"},{"startTime":954.224,"endTime":958.724,"body":"which solves a customer fiction,"},{"startTime":959.064,"endTime":962.255,"body":"which we can make or together with"},{"startTime":959.064,"endTime":962.255,"body":"partners, which we can make, that's"},{"startTime":962.255,"endTime":967.224,"body":"what innovation is about and is the CEO"},{"startTime":962.255,"endTime":967.224,"body":"at top level who can coordinate there"},{"startTime":967.454,"endTime":969.094,"body":"and who can facilitate that for me."},{"startTime":969.689,"endTime":973.43,"body":"Um, I'm heavily inclined to agree and I"},{"startTime":969.689,"endTime":973.43,"body":"actually, I have this vivid conversation"},{"startTime":973.439,"endTime":978.55,"body":"once with a recently stepped down CEO"},{"startTime":973.439,"endTime":978.55,"body":"of a very large financial services."},{"startTime":979.015,"endTime":979.925,"body":"organization."},{"startTime":979.975,"endTime":981.295,"body":"And I asked them this exact question."},{"startTime":981.295,"endTime":984.995,"body":"I was like, isn't this your, your remits"},{"startTime":981.295,"endTime":984.995,"body":"at, you know, why wasn't, why weren't"},{"startTime":984.995,"endTime":987.115,"body":"you more involved in the conversations?"},{"startTime":987.824,"endTime":990.444,"body":"And the answer I got very vividly,"},{"startTime":987.824,"endTime":990.444,"body":"he picked up a load of papers that"},{"startTime":990.444,"endTime":992.765,"body":"were next to us on the table and"},{"startTime":990.444,"endTime":992.765,"body":"put it all, put them all in the"},{"startTime":992.765,"endTime":994.355,"body":"middle and then got a small part."},{"startTime":994.404,"endTime":996.364,"body":"And then the other one is like,"},{"startTime":994.404,"endTime":996.364,"body":"this is the pile of stuff I wish"},{"startTime":996.364,"endTime":997.274,"body":"I could have done every day."},{"startTime":997.274,"endTime":997.855,"body":"And you're in it."},{"startTime":998.195,"endTime":1000.165,"body":"This is the pile of regulatory."},{"startTime":1000.44,"endTime":1001.33,"body":"Other stuff, right?"},{"startTime":1001.36,"endTime":1005.5,"body":"Risk management related things that"},{"startTime":1001.36,"endTime":1005.5,"body":"I spent 99 percent of my time doing"},{"startTime":1006.36,"endTime":1009.899,"body":"most of them that weren't planned"},{"startTime":1006.36,"endTime":1009.899,"body":"the day before that kept popping up."},{"startTime":1009.899,"endTime":1010.099,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1010.1,"endTime":1014.5,"body":"And it's like the very difficult"},{"startTime":1010.1,"endTime":1014.5,"body":"role it is because you don't want"},{"startTime":1014.5,"endTime":1017.019,"body":"to be doing most of the stuff that"},{"startTime":1014.5,"endTime":1017.019,"body":"you're doing at the sea level."},{"startTime":1017.12,"endTime":1018.61,"body":"And I want to be getting into this stuff."},{"startTime":1018.61,"endTime":1021.08,"body":"And I think that there's a,"},{"startTime":1018.61,"endTime":1021.08,"body":"there's a truism in there."},{"startTime":1021.08,"endTime":1022.97,"body":"That's just very hard to unpick, right?"},{"startTime":1022.97,"endTime":1027.14,"body":"That we live in this kind of Bureau,"},{"startTime":1022.97,"endTime":1027.14,"body":"but let's be a bit harder on this CEO"},{"startTime":1027.149,"endTime":1031.494,"body":"because come on, The operational shit"},{"startTime":1027.149,"endTime":1031.494,"body":"he should have done, let done by others."},{"startTime":1031.875,"endTime":1035.254,"body":"Why is a CEO in such operational role?"},{"startTime":1035.345,"endTime":1039.464,"body":"I think then you need to look at"},{"startTime":1035.345,"endTime":1039.464,"body":"your operational team, because for"},{"startTime":1039.474,"endTime":1043.585,"body":"me, the CEO has a management team,"},{"startTime":1039.474,"endTime":1043.585,"body":"which rules the business of today."},{"startTime":1044.829,"endTime":1047.03,"body":"And that should not be"},{"startTime":1044.829,"endTime":1047.03,"body":"the role of the CEO."},{"startTime":1047.76,"endTime":1051.56,"body":"He or she would be the one who is busy"},{"startTime":1047.76,"endTime":1051.56,"body":"with it in five or 10 years because"},{"startTime":1051.71,"endTime":1055.05,"body":"he or she is the only one who was"},{"startTime":1051.71,"endTime":1055.05,"body":"busy in five or 10 years with it."},{"startTime":1055.37,"endTime":1057.24,"body":"And that's what a good CEO should do."},{"startTime":1057.62,"endTime":1062.12,"body":"So, but of course, especially when"},{"startTime":1057.62,"endTime":1062.12,"body":"you are, uh, um, uh, you know,"},{"startTime":1062.12,"endTime":1063.99,"body":"a publicly noted company, right?"},{"startTime":1064.14,"endTime":1070.47,"body":"Oh, you know, There are so many, so"},{"startTime":1064.14,"endTime":1070.47,"body":"many incidents which get onto your"},{"startTime":1070.47,"endTime":1074.49,"body":"table, you know, which take up all"},{"startTime":1070.47,"endTime":1074.49,"body":"the time, which is really a pity."},{"startTime":1075.0,"endTime":1079.949,"body":"And in that case, I can even understand"},{"startTime":1075.0,"endTime":1079.949,"body":"and I can even sympathize because"},{"startTime":1080.27,"endTime":1084.349,"body":"I'm also a business economist, uh,"},{"startTime":1080.27,"endTime":1084.349,"body":"Simon, you wouldn't say that with my"},{"startTime":1084.52,"endTime":1086.699,"body":"creative book and I am a long hair."},{"startTime":1087.16,"endTime":1090.54,"body":"I'm just a dull, a dull"},{"startTime":1087.16,"endTime":1090.54,"body":"economist from inside."},{"startTime":1090.55,"endTime":1094.32,"body":"And I know if we don't make"},{"startTime":1090.55,"endTime":1094.32,"body":"any money today, we cannot"},{"startTime":1094.35,"endTime":1096.129,"body":"finance innovation for tomorrow."},{"startTime":1097.18,"endTime":1102.27,"body":"So I am completely in or focusing on"},{"startTime":1097.18,"endTime":1102.27,"body":"today, earning money today to improvement"},{"startTime":1102.29,"endTime":1107.419,"body":"today, do incremental innovation today"},{"startTime":1102.29,"endTime":1107.419,"body":"because they will, they will get us the"},{"startTime":1107.419,"endTime":1109.729,"body":"funds to be able to innovate for tomorrow."},{"startTime":1110.82,"endTime":1114.76,"body":"So you should have your legs on"},{"startTime":1110.82,"endTime":1114.76,"body":"both in today and in tomorrow."},{"startTime":1114.79,"endTime":1122.399,"body":"But, um, a lot of the time, you"},{"startTime":1114.79,"endTime":1122.399,"body":"know, when like revenues are, Oh"},{"startTime":1122.399,"endTime":1124.6,"body":"my, Oh, revenues are a bit down."},{"startTime":1124.6,"endTime":1128.219,"body":"And then EBITDA is double down"},{"startTime":1124.6,"endTime":1128.219,"body":"because margins are down too."},{"startTime":1129.199,"endTime":1130.539,"body":"Where do we get the money from?"},{"startTime":1130.65,"endTime":1131.21,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1131.23,"endTime":1134.65,"body":"You know, we cut the marketing budget and"},{"startTime":1131.23,"endTime":1134.65,"body":"we cut the innovation budget and we have"},{"startTime":1134.65,"endTime":1137.13,"body":"to pump it into the bottom line to save."},{"startTime":1137.54,"endTime":1139.58,"body":"To save the profits of this year, right?"},{"startTime":1140.19,"endTime":1142.129,"body":"That's, that's what most people do."},{"startTime":1142.22,"endTime":1145.679,"body":"And I even can understand that, but"},{"startTime":1142.22,"endTime":1145.679,"body":"when you're an innovator, you feel"},{"startTime":1145.679,"endTime":1150.829,"body":"insulted that you see your project"},{"startTime":1145.679,"endTime":1150.829,"body":"being stopped, of course, a lot of"},{"startTime":1150.829,"endTime":1152.53,"body":"people are feeling that, that right now."},{"startTime":1152.53,"endTime":1152.8,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1152.84,"endTime":1156.649,"body":"But do you see that there is"},{"startTime":1152.84,"endTime":1156.649,"body":"a, I mean, we get back to the"},{"startTime":1156.86,"endTime":1158.189,"body":"barriers here a little bit, right."},{"startTime":1158.409,"endTime":1159.04,"body":"Of what's happening."},{"startTime":1159.04,"endTime":1162.97,"body":"And clearly leadership, um,"},{"startTime":1159.04,"endTime":1162.97,"body":"is a key part of that, right?"},{"startTime":1162.98,"endTime":1164.32,"body":"Management is management."},{"startTime":1164.37,"endTime":1165.64,"body":"Leadership is leadership."},{"startTime":1165.64,"endTime":1168.1,"body":"And I, I, I split those two things."},{"startTime":1168.54,"endTime":1172.41,"body":"Out and I'm constantly reflecting as"},{"startTime":1168.54,"endTime":1172.41,"body":"we're talking around how I do this in"},{"startTime":1172.41,"endTime":1176.61,"body":"my business and what role I take and"},{"startTime":1172.41,"endTime":1176.61,"body":"of course, you know, I try and listen"},{"startTime":1176.61,"endTime":1181.03,"body":"more and speak less than my team may"},{"startTime":1176.61,"endTime":1181.03,"body":"disagree sometimes, but I actively"},{"startTime":1181.039,"endTime":1184.89,"body":"try and I find that actually the most"},{"startTime":1181.039,"endTime":1184.89,"body":"productive best meetings when I do, right?"},{"startTime":1184.909,"endTime":1188.72,"body":"Like I will, I will often type rather"},{"startTime":1184.909,"endTime":1188.72,"body":"than speak because my voice and my"},{"startTime":1188.72,"endTime":1192.379,"body":"words carry different, different"},{"startTime":1188.72,"endTime":1192.379,"body":"power in the, in those two forums."},{"startTime":1192.389,"endTime":1196.719,"body":"When I lectured in India, there was"},{"startTime":1192.389,"endTime":1196.719,"body":"an Indian guy from the, from the."},{"startTime":1197.035,"endTime":1197.975,"body":"Uh, audience."},{"startTime":1197.975,"endTime":1201.295,"body":"And I was talking about the fourth"},{"startTime":1197.975,"endTime":1201.295,"body":"innovation method and the second"},{"startTime":1201.295,"endTime":1205.015,"body":"step in the fourth innovation method"},{"startTime":1201.295,"endTime":1205.015,"body":"after full steam ahead, making the"},{"startTime":1205.015,"endTime":1206.575,"body":"direction is observe and learn."},{"startTime":1208.235,"endTime":1211.315,"body":"And, um, a guy stood up from the audience."},{"startTime":1211.775,"endTime":1214.585,"body":"It was in Delhi in India"},{"startTime":1211.775,"endTime":1214.585,"body":"around 10 years ago."},{"startTime":1214.614,"endTime":1224.675,"body":"And he says, Hey, there is a reason why"},{"startTime":1214.614,"endTime":1224.675,"body":"God gave us one mouth, two eyes and two"},{"startTime":1224.675,"endTime":1227.995,"body":"ears, if God has wanted us to speak."},{"startTime":1228.815,"endTime":1231.325,"body":"You would have given us"},{"startTime":1228.815,"endTime":1231.325,"body":"two mouths instead of one."},{"startTime":1231.725,"endTime":1231.805,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1233.02,"endTime":1236.11,"body":"This is, well, this, this pops into"},{"startTime":1233.02,"endTime":1236.11,"body":"my mind while you say this, right?"},{"startTime":1236.91,"endTime":1239.71,"body":"Simply innovation is all about learning."},{"startTime":1239.9,"endTime":1241.049,"body":"That's what innovation is."},{"startTime":1241.5,"endTime":1242.83,"body":"It's all about being open."},{"startTime":1243.73,"endTime":1246.499,"body":"Go out, see things you never saw again."},{"startTime":1246.739,"endTime":1251.729,"body":"You never saw, hear things you never"},{"startTime":1246.739,"endTime":1251.729,"body":"hear it instead of, and in your own"},{"startTime":1251.839,"endTime":1257.33,"body":"world, you are in a beehive and the"},{"startTime":1251.839,"endTime":1257.33,"body":"beehive is busy zooming around, but"},{"startTime":1257.49,"endTime":1259.2,"body":"the real world is outside the beehive."},{"startTime":1259.2,"endTime":1261.29,"body":"And how often, how often do you get there?"},{"startTime":1261.29,"endTime":1261.35,"body":"Learn"},{"startTime":1263.379,"endTime":1265.99,"body":"Not, not too far outside"},{"startTime":1263.379,"endTime":1265.99,"body":"of the beehive either."},{"startTime":1265.99,"endTime":1269.375,"body":"I think we're, um, we're,"},{"startTime":1265.99,"endTime":1269.375,"body":"we're, we're leaning on, we're,"},{"startTime":1269.49,"endTime":1270.93,"body":"we're learning more about this."},{"startTime":1270.93,"endTime":1271.17,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1271.17,"endTime":1276.84,"body":"And I think that the world of data and,"},{"startTime":1271.17,"endTime":1276.84,"body":"and ai, if you wanna call it, that, are"},{"startTime":1276.84,"endTime":1278.52,"body":"starting to open up some of those things."},{"startTime":1278.52,"endTime":1280.68,"body":"As you know, we're, we're"},{"startTime":1278.52,"endTime":1280.68,"body":"a crowdsourcing business."},{"startTime":1280.68,"endTime":1283.86,"body":"I believe firmly that many of the"},{"startTime":1280.68,"endTime":1283.86,"body":"answers, like just outside the field"},{"startTime":1283.86,"endTime":1287.729,"body":"of usual view and that the crowd is"},{"startTime":1283.86,"endTime":1287.729,"body":"best for discovering those, right."},{"startTime":1287.729,"endTime":1288.959,"body":"From an innovation perspective."},{"startTime":1288.959,"endTime":1289.05,"body":"So."},{"startTime":1289.54,"endTime":1291.24,"body":"I don't know how much you looked at data."},{"startTime":1291.56,"endTime":1294.45,"body":"It wasn't, it wasn't front, wasn't"},{"startTime":1291.56,"endTime":1294.45,"body":"front and center in some of your"},{"startTime":1294.46,"endTime":1297.74,"body":"barriers, but it's probably implicit"},{"startTime":1294.46,"endTime":1297.74,"body":"within it somewhere as well."},{"startTime":1298.34,"endTime":1300.38,"body":"Well, the interesting"},{"startTime":1298.34,"endTime":1300.38,"body":"part is, is that, um,"},{"startTime":1303.95,"endTime":1308.79,"body":"30 years ago, when I was a consultant"},{"startTime":1303.95,"endTime":1308.79,"body":"before the internet, we did one thing"},{"startTime":1308.79,"endTime":1311.73,"body":"at one client and we did exactly"},{"startTime":1308.79,"endTime":1311.73,"body":"the same thing at the other client."},{"startTime":1311.73,"endTime":1314.052,"body":"They just needed us for the knowledge."},{"startTime":1314.052,"endTime":1316.374,"body":"Then Google came and now AI came."},{"startTime":1318.235,"endTime":1323.845,"body":"If we want now 10, 15, 15 business"},{"startTime":1318.235,"endTime":1323.845,"body":"cases, we got them within an hour."},{"startTime":1325.615,"endTime":1329.744,"body":"If you want 250 new concepts,"},{"startTime":1325.615,"endTime":1329.744,"body":"we got them in two hours."},{"startTime":1331.135,"endTime":1332.165,"body":"So the watch,"},{"startTime":1334.895,"endTime":1336.795,"body":"we have been focused on"},{"startTime":1334.895,"endTime":1336.795,"body":"the knowledge on the watch."},{"startTime":1337.755,"endTime":1342.284,"body":"The what is not a problem anymore,"},{"startTime":1337.755,"endTime":1342.284,"body":"but have you ever seen now?"},{"startTime":1342.88,"endTime":1344.88,"body":"A management team say yes to a computer."},{"startTime":1345.79,"endTime":1347.08,"body":"This is the interesting part."},{"startTime":1347.67,"endTime":1350.98,"body":"Again, the soft things will be even"},{"startTime":1347.67,"endTime":1350.98,"body":"the more harder things in the future."},{"startTime":1352.37,"endTime":1356.07,"body":"Consultants, the old style, will be"},{"startTime":1352.37,"endTime":1356.07,"body":"gone because we don't need to work."},{"startTime":1356.1,"endTime":1361.829,"body":"We got our chat TPs, we got our data, we"},{"startTime":1356.1,"endTime":1361.829,"body":"got our integrated data, and you are the"},{"startTime":1361.829,"endTime":1363.93,"body":"expert on that on the innovation side."},{"startTime":1364.26,"endTime":1367.04,"body":"How to integrate external"},{"startTime":1364.26,"endTime":1367.04,"body":"data with internal data."},{"startTime":1367.23,"endTime":1368.95,"body":"The data are not a problem."},{"startTime":1369.54,"endTime":1374.27,"body":"You can generate a lot of concepts"},{"startTime":1369.54,"endTime":1374.27,"body":"from your computer, but the fact is,"},{"startTime":1374.28,"endTime":1381.6,"body":"how do you create ownership and how,"},{"startTime":1374.28,"endTime":1381.6,"body":"when do management teams say yes,"},{"startTime":1384.35,"endTime":1387.08,"body":"that depends on how much"},{"startTime":1384.35,"endTime":1387.08,"body":"certainty they need."},{"startTime":1387.29,"endTime":1391.05,"body":"And I'll come to this in a moment,"},{"startTime":1387.29,"endTime":1391.05,"body":"when you start innovation, how"},{"startTime":1391.079,"endTime":1395.149,"body":"much certainty do you have at"},{"startTime":1391.079,"endTime":1395.149,"body":"the front end of innovation?"},{"startTime":1395.159,"endTime":1397.84,"body":"You have zero percent."},{"startTime":1399.04,"endTime":1400.17,"body":"There is no certainty."},{"startTime":1402.399,"endTime":1404.21,"body":"When you say yes as management team."},{"startTime":1404.905,"endTime":1406.255,"body":"We are for this big launch."},{"startTime":1406.265,"endTime":1410.335,"body":"How much certainty you want"},{"startTime":1406.265,"endTime":1410.335,"body":"to have a hundred percent."},{"startTime":1411.595,"endTime":1414.455,"body":"So as innovators, we"},{"startTime":1411.595,"endTime":1414.455,"body":"are certainty builders."},{"startTime":1416.515,"endTime":1418.155,"body":"Is this something the client wants?"},{"startTime":1419.474,"endTime":1421.324,"body":"Is this something that we can produce?"},{"startTime":1421.735,"endTime":1423.935,"body":"Is this something where"},{"startTime":1421.735,"endTime":1423.935,"body":"there's a business model?"},{"startTime":1424.565,"endTime":1428.475,"body":"And we feed it all with data to build"},{"startTime":1424.565,"endTime":1428.475,"body":"certainty, certainty, certainty."},{"startTime":1428.915,"endTime":1430.814,"body":"And when there's trust, they will say yes."},{"startTime":1431.034,"endTime":1436.364,"body":"So I think that even the soft things,"},{"startTime":1431.034,"endTime":1436.364,"body":"you know, especially in a new age"},{"startTime":1436.364,"endTime":1440.855,"body":"of AI, computers, and it's all"},{"startTime":1436.364,"endTime":1440.855,"body":"there, but do I believe it or not?"},{"startTime":1443.015,"endTime":1445.765,"body":"And that's where, and that's"},{"startTime":1443.015,"endTime":1445.765,"body":"where the human side comes in."},{"startTime":1446.505,"endTime":1451.134,"body":"So people say, Oh guys, it will be the end"},{"startTime":1446.505,"endTime":1451.134,"body":"of innovation consultants and facilities."},{"startTime":1451.634,"endTime":1452.594,"body":"Oh no, no, no, no."},{"startTime":1453.404,"endTime":1453.844,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1454.259,"endTime":1459.15,"body":"It goes, how do we, how do we merge then"},{"startTime":1454.259,"endTime":1459.15,"body":"the soft and the hard things, you know,"},{"startTime":1459.17,"endTime":1461.07,"body":"that's where people are still needed."},{"startTime":1462.909,"endTime":1465.04,"body":"Yeah, no, I, I, I'm inclined to agree."},{"startTime":1465.04,"endTime":1469.409,"body":"Like, I think that, that my piece on"},{"startTime":1465.04,"endTime":1469.409,"body":"the data piece right now is, is, is"},{"startTime":1469.409,"endTime":1474.289,"body":"helping to drive that, that by helping"},{"startTime":1469.409,"endTime":1474.289,"body":"to drive the prioritizations, helping to."},{"startTime":1474.824,"endTime":1479.344,"body":"Avoid the usual pitfalls that lead"},{"startTime":1474.824,"endTime":1479.344,"body":"to many of the wrong projects being"},{"startTime":1479.344,"endTime":1484.445,"body":"initiated or overfunded for too long"},{"startTime":1479.344,"endTime":1484.445,"body":"and the right, the right lessons not"},{"startTime":1484.445,"endTime":1488.905,"body":"learned or the right pivots, not not"},{"startTime":1484.445,"endTime":1488.905,"body":"taken, um, and therefore maybe moving"},{"startTime":1488.905,"endTime":1494.225,"body":"us onto timing a little bit that we, you"},{"startTime":1488.905,"endTime":1494.225,"body":"know, either we run out of time because"},{"startTime":1494.415,"endTime":1499.665,"body":"as a team, as a group, as a function,"},{"startTime":1494.415,"endTime":1499.665,"body":"um, we've, we've invested too much in"},{"startTime":1499.665,"endTime":1501.915,"body":"the wrong projects or taken too long."},{"startTime":1502.305,"endTime":1503.745,"body":"Even with the right projects, right?"},{"startTime":1503.745,"endTime":1505.955,"body":"Like I'm seeing a lot of very"},{"startTime":1503.745,"endTime":1505.955,"body":"good projects being killed"},{"startTime":1505.955,"endTime":1507.705,"body":"at the moment and divested."},{"startTime":1507.795,"endTime":1508.515,"body":"Why is that?"},{"startTime":1508.545,"endTime":1509.445,"body":"Why is that, Simon?"},{"startTime":1509.815,"endTime":1515.124,"body":"Well, but it's, and some of it's for the,"},{"startTime":1509.815,"endTime":1515.124,"body":"for the reasons that, that management's"},{"startTime":1515.504,"endTime":1518.624,"body":"have been, you know, businesses are"},{"startTime":1515.504,"endTime":1518.624,"body":"having to make hard choices right now."},{"startTime":1519.205,"endTime":1522.084,"body":"And there are some really"},{"startTime":1519.205,"endTime":1522.084,"body":"interesting businesses out there."},{"startTime":1522.084,"endTime":1527.295,"body":"What I find quite strange, and I was"},{"startTime":1522.084,"endTime":1527.295,"body":"A conversation, conversation with, um,"},{"startTime":1527.325,"endTime":1531.975,"body":"professor Alf Bingo who was the founder of"},{"startTime":1527.325,"endTime":1531.975,"body":"a business we acquired called Incentive."},{"startTime":1531.975,"endTime":1533.175,"body":"It's now Waki Crowd."},{"startTime":1533.175,"endTime":1538.235,"body":"And you know, his vision when he created"},{"startTime":1533.175,"endTime":1538.235,"body":"Incentive was, you know, which came out"},{"startTime":1538.235,"endTime":1544.235,"body":"of Lilly Labs, Eli Lilly, right, was to"},{"startTime":1538.235,"endTime":1544.235,"body":"create a open science community to disrupt"},{"startTime":1544.235,"endTime":1549.175,"body":"the way that drug development was done"},{"startTime":1544.235,"endTime":1549.175,"body":"in use crowdsourcing for, for doing that."},{"startTime":1549.61,"endTime":1554.82,"body":"The Lily Labs loved it and funded it,"},{"startTime":1549.61,"endTime":1554.82,"body":"but didn't want it to be a disrupter"},{"startTime":1554.82,"endTime":1560.35,"body":"to itself or its own or its own market,"},{"startTime":1554.82,"endTime":1560.35,"body":"and therefore, in some ways, you know,"},{"startTime":1560.45,"endTime":1563.159,"body":"and the market didn't like it very"},{"startTime":1560.45,"endTime":1563.159,"body":"much either, because it was such a"},{"startTime":1563.21,"endTime":1566.179,"body":"threat to them as they went forward."},{"startTime":1566.629,"endTime":1569.37,"body":"But one of the interesting"},{"startTime":1566.629,"endTime":1569.37,"body":"things from from that, which was"},{"startTime":1569.679,"endTime":1571.159,"body":"it is highly effective, right?"},{"startTime":1571.159,"endTime":1575.219,"body":"There was huge amounts of data to"},{"startTime":1571.159,"endTime":1575.219,"body":"suggest that these open approaches to"},{"startTime":1575.219,"endTime":1581.51,"body":"doing innovation are almost unilaterally"},{"startTime":1575.219,"endTime":1581.51,"body":"cheaper, faster and more effective than"},{"startTime":1581.51,"endTime":1583.619,"body":"the closed approaches for doing it right."},{"startTime":1583.619,"endTime":1586.83,"body":"And lots of people have written"},{"startTime":1583.619,"endTime":1586.83,"body":"Lots of good research around"},{"startTime":1586.83,"endTime":1588.33,"body":"this as, as, as evidence backs."},{"startTime":1588.68,"endTime":1591.6,"body":"What's interesting about that though,"},{"startTime":1588.68,"endTime":1591.6,"body":"is that I would say that there's also"},{"startTime":1591.6,"endTime":1594.79,"body":"a normal distribution curve of quality"},{"startTime":1591.6,"endTime":1594.79,"body":"that comes off the back of those."},{"startTime":1595.26,"endTime":1598.909,"body":"And that even, but that even the ones"},{"startTime":1595.26,"endTime":1598.909,"body":"we might think of as the dogs, right?"},{"startTime":1598.919,"endTime":1603.879,"body":"They're not necessarily the unicorns"},{"startTime":1598.919,"endTime":1603.879,"body":"or the future business models probably"},{"startTime":1603.879,"endTime":1608.06,"body":"still have a significant number of zeros"},{"startTime":1603.879,"endTime":1608.06,"body":"after them in terms of potential value."},{"startTime":1608.32,"endTime":1608.54,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1608.54,"endTime":1610.169,"body":"And so the venture bits."},{"startTime":1610.17,"endTime":1615.199,"body":"Of our of these companies and the"},{"startTime":1610.17,"endTime":1615.199,"body":"opportunities to create value that"},{"startTime":1615.199,"endTime":1618.8,"body":"could go and create value in the"},{"startTime":1615.199,"endTime":1618.8,"body":"world Like venture capitalists do but"},{"startTime":1618.8,"endTime":1622.139,"body":"businesses understand these problems"},{"startTime":1618.8,"endTime":1622.139,"body":"and these markets better than vcs"},{"startTime":1622.139,"endTime":1625.899,"body":"do better than bankers Do feels"},{"startTime":1622.139,"endTime":1625.899,"body":"like a missed opportunity, right?"},{"startTime":1625.899,"endTime":1630.82,"body":"And so I think some of it is Is a"},{"startTime":1625.899,"endTime":1630.82,"body":"poorer understanding of strategy,"},{"startTime":1630.82,"endTime":1635.02,"body":"but these are smart people with smart"},{"startTime":1630.82,"endTime":1635.02,"body":"businesses and smart smart teams around"},{"startTime":1635.02,"endTime":1638.07,"body":"them And so part of the answer is I"},{"startTime":1635.02,"endTime":1638.07,"body":"don't know the answer to your question"},{"startTime":1638.07,"endTime":1642.47,"body":"Why not right other than strategy"},{"startTime":1638.07,"endTime":1642.47,"body":"strategy and fear wags the tail, right?"},{"startTime":1642.71,"endTime":1644.909,"body":"May I may I ask you a"},{"startTime":1642.71,"endTime":1644.909,"body":"personal question siren?"},{"startTime":1644.91,"endTime":1649.205,"body":"Um And, and I, I, I honestly don't"},{"startTime":1644.91,"endTime":1649.205,"body":"know this, but do you have any"},{"startTime":1649.215,"endTime":1651.165,"body":"children or any nephews and nieces?"},{"startTime":1651.465,"endTime":1652.955,"body":"I have two, two small children."},{"startTime":1652.955,"endTime":1653.554,"body":"Yes, I do."},{"startTime":1653.595,"endTime":1654.185,"body":"Two small children."},{"startTime":1654.274,"endTime":1654.585,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1654.865,"endTime":1658.605,"body":"Now, um, do you like your children?"},{"startTime":1659.264,"endTime":1659.554,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":1659.554,"endTime":1660.344,"body":"I love my children."},{"startTime":1660.544,"endTime":1660.774,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1660.794,"endTime":1661.794,"body":"You love your children?"},{"startTime":1661.884,"endTime":1662.454,"body":"Mostly."},{"startTime":1662.504,"endTime":1662.594,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1662.995,"endTime":1663.354,"body":"Most of the time."},{"startTime":1663.544,"endTime":1665.154,"body":"Well, they're still, they're still small."},{"startTime":1665.164,"endTime":1672.245,"body":"That's, that's Now, do you have in Sweden"},{"startTime":1665.164,"endTime":1672.245,"body":"where you live any Neighbors with children"},{"startTime":1672.245,"endTime":1673.765,"body":"or neighbors of neighbors with children."},{"startTime":1674.075,"endTime":1675.205,"body":"Of course, there's many around."},{"startTime":1675.275,"endTime":1676.395,"body":"Oh, many, good, good."},{"startTime":1676.775,"endTime":1679.445,"body":"Do you like the children of the neighbors?"},{"startTime":1679.854,"endTime":1681.914,"body":"Yeah, I mean, this is going"},{"startTime":1679.854,"endTime":1681.914,"body":"to go out globally, isn't it?"},{"startTime":1681.935,"endTime":1684.115,"body":"So let's, you know, there's"},{"startTime":1681.935,"endTime":1684.115,"body":"a mixed bag out there."},{"startTime":1684.805,"endTime":1690.935,"body":"Now, be honest now, be honest now, do"},{"startTime":1684.805,"endTime":1690.935,"body":"you love the children of the neighbors?"},{"startTime":1691.304,"endTime":1693.925,"body":"No, I don't, I don't think I would, I"},{"startTime":1691.304,"endTime":1693.925,"body":"don't think I would go that far about it."},{"startTime":1694.375,"endTime":1694.845,"body":"Hmm."},{"startTime":1694.995,"endTime":1695.304,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1696.335,"endTime":1696.885,"body":"That's different, huh?"},{"startTime":1697.955,"endTime":1703.945,"body":"Now, the only difference Between your"},{"startTime":1697.955,"endTime":1703.945,"body":"child and the child of the neighbors"},{"startTime":1704.745,"endTime":1708.495,"body":"is that your child is yours and the"},{"startTime":1704.745,"endTime":1708.495,"body":"child of the neighbors is not yours."},{"startTime":1708.775,"endTime":1709.145,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":1709.624,"endTime":1710.085,"body":"I hope."},{"startTime":1710.765,"endTime":1712.255,"body":"That's best we know."},{"startTime":1715.075,"endTime":1715.455,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":1715.645,"endTime":1716.865,"body":"No, I understand the point."},{"startTime":1717.575,"endTime":1720.315,"body":"It is the same with ideas."},{"startTime":1720.644,"endTime":1720.914,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1721.374,"endTime":1723.034,"body":"It's the same with ideas."},{"startTime":1724.385,"endTime":1725.045,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":1725.415,"endTime":1727.235,"body":"Rationally, you're completely right."},{"startTime":1728.3,"endTime":1734.31,"body":"Via open source, open crowdfunding,"},{"startTime":1728.3,"endTime":1734.31,"body":"but it's all the child."},{"startTime":1734.32,"endTime":1736.84,"body":"It are all the childs of the neighbors."},{"startTime":1737.81,"endTime":1741.859,"body":"It are not our childs because,"},{"startTime":1737.81,"endTime":1741.859,"body":"and this is the check question."},{"startTime":1743.649,"endTime":1748.43,"body":"Does your wife or girlfriend or ex"},{"startTime":1743.649,"endTime":1748.43,"body":"wife, I still hope wife, I still"},{"startTime":1748.43,"endTime":1750.87,"body":"hope, but also love your children."},{"startTime":1751.32,"endTime":1752.83,"body":"When we came on, uh, she was my wife."},{"startTime":1752.909,"endTime":1753.639,"body":"That's like, she still is."},{"startTime":1756.86,"endTime":1758.22,"body":"That's no coincidence."},{"startTime":1758.67,"endTime":1760.969,"body":"You made your children together."},{"startTime":1762.5,"endTime":1766.08,"body":"And what you create, you like,"},{"startTime":1762.5,"endTime":1766.08,"body":"and what you create, you trust."},{"startTime":1766.33,"endTime":1769.48,"body":"And of course, if there's something wrong"},{"startTime":1766.33,"endTime":1769.48,"body":"with the child or the neighbors, you"},{"startTime":1769.48,"endTime":1771.819,"body":"will start to, to, to arrange something."},{"startTime":1772.4,"endTime":1775.31,"body":"But when there's not something wrong"},{"startTime":1772.4,"endTime":1775.31,"body":"with your child, which I don't hope,"},{"startTime":1775.38,"endTime":1780.25,"body":"you would stop the postcards immediately"},{"startTime":1775.38,"endTime":1780.25,"body":"and go out and save him or her, right?"},{"startTime":1780.655,"endTime":1783.575,"body":"And so the ownership is about creation."},{"startTime":1784.235,"endTime":1787.755,"body":"And of course you can make use of"},{"startTime":1784.235,"endTime":1787.755,"body":"also in the Ford methodology, other"},{"startTime":1787.755,"endTime":1792.525,"body":"methodologies, right in observe and"},{"startTime":1787.755,"endTime":1792.525,"body":"learn you source from, but you need to"},{"startTime":1792.525,"endTime":1795.474,"body":"digest it first for you to become yours."},{"startTime":1796.594,"endTime":1798.134,"body":"And this is so important."},{"startTime":1798.775,"endTime":1801.035,"body":"It's just a human trade of humans."},{"startTime":1801.065,"endTime":1805.225,"body":"And especially in doing new"},{"startTime":1801.065,"endTime":1805.225,"body":"things, we have to digest it first."},{"startTime":1805.225,"endTime":1809.255,"body":"And it has to be not only in our"},{"startTime":1805.225,"endTime":1809.255,"body":"minds from an objective, but also"},{"startTime":1809.255,"endTime":1810.835,"body":"in our souls or in our hearts."},{"startTime":1811.675,"endTime":1812.815,"body":"And then we will go for it."},{"startTime":1813.675,"endTime":1816.385,"body":"I think there's a human identity"},{"startTime":1813.675,"endTime":1816.385,"body":"piece that comes into it as well."},{"startTime":1816.385,"endTime":1820.225,"body":"And we can, we can start to start, start"},{"startTime":1816.385,"endTime":1820.225,"body":"to dig into some of the other thematics."},{"startTime":1820.275,"endTime":1824.075,"body":"But in a, in one of the previous"},{"startTime":1820.275,"endTime":1824.075,"body":"podcasts, we spoke with Steve Rader at"},{"startTime":1824.075,"endTime":1829.005,"body":"NASA and, you know, they do a lot of"},{"startTime":1824.075,"endTime":1829.005,"body":"work with us in crowdsourcing as well."},{"startTime":1829.005,"endTime":1834.575,"body":"And we discussed the, the identity"},{"startTime":1829.005,"endTime":1834.575,"body":"of a rocket scientist and a PhD who's"},{"startTime":1834.575,"endTime":1836.365,"body":"dedicated their life to this was that."},{"startTime":1836.66,"endTime":1838.61,"body":"It's my job to come up"},{"startTime":1836.66,"endTime":1838.61,"body":"with the best ideas."},{"startTime":1838.61,"endTime":1843.64,"body":"It's my job to, to, and actually"},{"startTime":1838.61,"endTime":1843.64,"body":"the reframing of that, of your"},{"startTime":1843.64,"endTime":1848.95,"body":"job is to, is to return, to return"},{"startTime":1843.64,"endTime":1848.95,"body":"astronauts safe to planet earth, right."},{"startTime":1848.98,"endTime":1851.95,"body":"And to get them up into space and"},{"startTime":1848.98,"endTime":1851.95,"body":"get them back down again safely."},{"startTime":1852.4,"endTime":1854.2,"body":"And that in that reframing."},{"startTime":1854.675,"endTime":1858.645,"body":"The ability to turn every rock and make"},{"startTime":1854.675,"endTime":1858.645,"body":"sure that you've considered every idea"},{"startTime":1858.645,"endTime":1861.995,"body":"and that you understand everything and"},{"startTime":1858.645,"endTime":1861.995,"body":"that that's not all on your shoulders"},{"startTime":1862.485,"endTime":1867.245,"body":"led to this real embracing of open"},{"startTime":1862.485,"endTime":1867.245,"body":"innovation and open talent and innovation"},{"startTime":1867.605,"endTime":1872.115,"body":"as a collaborative capability, not"},{"startTime":1867.605,"endTime":1872.115,"body":"the purveyor of geniuses exclusively."},{"startTime":1875.83,"endTime":1877.29,"body":"It's all about the culture thing."},{"startTime":1877.29,"endTime":1877.55,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1877.58,"endTime":1880.55,"body":"And now we come to, you know, it's"},{"startTime":1877.58,"endTime":1880.55,"body":"all about building a culture with"},{"startTime":1880.55,"endTime":1886.81,"body":"embraces innovation and, uh, you"},{"startTime":1880.55,"endTime":1886.81,"body":"know, in, um, in my book, innovation,"},{"startTime":1887.03,"endTime":1892.44,"body":"breaking innovation barriers, I"},{"startTime":1887.03,"endTime":1892.44,"body":"call it, you know, we innovation and"},{"startTime":1892.44,"endTime":1898.11,"body":"not I innovation and we innovation"},{"startTime":1892.44,"endTime":1898.11,"body":"started doing it together internally."},{"startTime":1898.58,"endTime":1903.6,"body":"Now, where you embrace that, then you"},{"startTime":1898.58,"endTime":1903.6,"body":"can also inc, You know, do we innovation,"},{"startTime":1903.7,"endTime":1907.26,"body":"you know, including crowdfunding,"},{"startTime":1903.7,"endTime":1907.26,"body":"uh, their assignment and crowd"},{"startTime":1907.45,"endTime":1912.98,"body":"sourcing of ideas and new technologies"},{"startTime":1907.45,"endTime":1912.98,"body":"and, but you have to lose the eye."},{"startTime":1913.89,"endTime":1915.83,"body":"And it's easier when you're older like me."},{"startTime":1916.66,"endTime":1917.69,"body":"I'm an old dog."},{"startTime":1917.7,"endTime":1918.05,"body":"Come on."},{"startTime":1918.05,"endTime":1921.03,"body":"You know, I, I've done it all."},{"startTime":1921.03,"endTime":1923.07,"body":"Well, not all, but seen it all."},{"startTime":1923.07,"endTime":1926.735,"body":"I'm, you know, In the fall of my career."},{"startTime":1926.735,"endTime":1930.135,"body":"So I am much more open than I was,"},{"startTime":1926.735,"endTime":1930.135,"body":"you know, in the spring where I,"},{"startTime":1930.165,"endTime":1934.275,"body":"where I always be there and I want"},{"startTime":1930.165,"endTime":1934.275,"body":"to be seen and it has to be my work."},{"startTime":1934.355,"endTime":1941.115,"body":"And so to make the culture change also in"},{"startTime":1934.355,"endTime":1941.115,"body":"the organization, I think that is crucial."},{"startTime":1943.41,"endTime":1943.63,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1943.63,"endTime":1946.46,"body":"I mean, I don't, I think you're"},{"startTime":1943.63,"endTime":1946.46,"body":"not an old dog, but even so"},{"startTime":1946.46,"endTime":1947.74,"body":"you're teaching new tricks, right?"},{"startTime":1947.74,"endTime":1949.15,"body":"Which is a, which is good."},{"startTime":1949.56,"endTime":1951.78,"body":"I struggle a little bit"},{"startTime":1949.56,"endTime":1951.78,"body":"with this culture concepts."},{"startTime":1951.78,"endTime":1956.17,"body":"And I, I, you know, some people put it"},{"startTime":1951.78,"endTime":1956.17,"body":"at the front of the most important bit."},{"startTime":1956.17,"endTime":1958.35,"body":"Some people put it in the middle,"},{"startTime":1956.17,"endTime":1958.35,"body":"some people put it at the back."},{"startTime":1958.98,"endTime":1959.95,"body":"Um, why?"},{"startTime":1959.96,"endTime":1961.16,"body":"Because I think it's important."},{"startTime":1961.21,"endTime":1964.595,"body":"I also think it's, It's in some"},{"startTime":1961.21,"endTime":1964.595,"body":"ways a little bit overhyped."},{"startTime":1965.275,"endTime":1968.185,"body":"There are cultures that produce"},{"startTime":1965.275,"endTime":1968.185,"body":"great innovation that probably"},{"startTime":1968.185,"endTime":1972.965,"body":"wouldn't be standouts as, you know,"},{"startTime":1968.185,"endTime":1972.965,"body":"the things to mirror and replicate."},{"startTime":1972.965,"endTime":1974.505,"body":"And maybe that's the point, right?"},{"startTime":1974.825,"endTime":1978.935,"body":"Um, I think that there are some"},{"startTime":1974.825,"endTime":1978.935,"body":"that we hold up as cultures"},{"startTime":1978.955,"endTime":1980.795,"body":"that were very individual led."},{"startTime":1981.775,"endTime":1985.225,"body":"Strong personalities and that the"},{"startTime":1981.775,"endTime":1985.225,"body":"culture isn't necessarily the culture."},{"startTime":1985.225,"endTime":1987.155,"body":"Therefore, everyone else in"},{"startTime":1985.225,"endTime":1987.155,"body":"the business would choose."},{"startTime":1987.355,"endTime":1987.635,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1987.695,"endTime":1990.685,"body":"And so I, I have some"},{"startTime":1987.695,"endTime":1990.685,"body":"difficulties with it."},{"startTime":1990.785,"endTime":1994.875,"body":"I don't, I don't debate it's"},{"startTime":1990.785,"endTime":1994.875,"body":"important in context, but I"},{"startTime":1994.875,"endTime":1996.292,"body":"have some challenges with it."},{"startTime":1996.292,"endTime":2002.145,"body":"Well, you know, it's really nice when you"},{"startTime":1996.292,"endTime":2002.145,"body":"look at, um, the Hofstede cultural index."},{"startTime":2002.315,"endTime":2007.725,"body":"And, um, and when you compare that with"},{"startTime":2002.315,"endTime":2007.725,"body":"the global innovation index and, um,"},{"startTime":2008.545,"endTime":2013.045,"body":"One of the countries I go most where,"},{"startTime":2008.545,"endTime":2013.045,"body":"um, where I come every year is Japan,"},{"startTime":2014.915,"endTime":2019.325,"body":"the Tokyo Yokohama region, mind you,"},{"startTime":2014.915,"endTime":2019.325,"body":"that's, that's 40 million people there"},{"startTime":2019.445,"endTime":2024.625,"body":"is the number one technology hotspot"},{"startTime":2019.445,"endTime":2024.625,"body":"in the world, the number one, and"},{"startTime":2024.625,"endTime":2027.725,"body":"Japan is number 13 in innovation index."},{"startTime":2028.255,"endTime":2029.465,"body":"Isn't that strange?"},{"startTime":2029.725,"endTime":2030.025,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2030.575,"endTime":2035.875,"body":"They are behind Korea, behind Taiwan,"},{"startTime":2030.575,"endTime":2035.875,"body":"behind Singapore and behind China."},{"startTime":2038.045,"endTime":2038.465,"body":"Why?"},{"startTime":2038.915,"endTime":2042.785,"body":"Because there's this difference"},{"startTime":2038.915,"endTime":2042.785,"body":"between technology and between"},{"startTime":2042.795,"endTime":2046.535,"body":"an innovation because there's,"},{"startTime":2042.795,"endTime":2046.535,"body":"there is the thing called market."},{"startTime":2046.635,"endTime":2049.065,"body":"There is a thing called design thinking."},{"startTime":2049.065,"endTime":2053.165,"body":"There's a thing called empathy,"},{"startTime":2049.065,"endTime":2053.165,"body":"you know, and there's a thing"},{"startTime":2053.165,"endTime":2054.805,"body":"called risk and risk aversion."},{"startTime":2055.475,"endTime":2058.525,"body":"And you know, the Japanese, they"},{"startTime":2055.475,"endTime":2058.525,"body":"are the Germans of Europe, right?"},{"startTime":2058.575,"endTime":2061.135,"body":"Germany, exactly the same"},{"startTime":2058.575,"endTime":2061.135,"body":"for different reasons."},{"startTime":2062.65,"endTime":2065.62,"body":"But when you give a German and"},{"startTime":2062.65,"endTime":2065.62,"body":"a Japanese, I'm sorry, all the"},{"startTime":2065.63,"endTime":2069.46,"body":"Japanese and the Germans, but this"},{"startTime":2065.63,"endTime":2069.46,"body":"is an exaggerating Dutch one here."},{"startTime":2069.49,"endTime":2073.82,"body":"Give an empty, an empty piece"},{"startTime":2069.49,"endTime":2073.82,"body":"of paper, say, draw something."},{"startTime":2073.83,"endTime":2076.31,"body":"They don't draw something, but"},{"startTime":2073.83,"endTime":2076.31,"body":"when we give them something,"},{"startTime":2076.41,"endTime":2078.14,"body":"here's a mouse, make a better one."},{"startTime":2078.5,"endTime":2082.04,"body":"They will give the best"},{"startTime":2078.5,"endTime":2082.04,"body":"improvements, right?"},{"startTime":2083.14,"endTime":2084.2,"body":"So they are improved."},{"startTime":2084.21,"endTime":2086.58,"body":"They are not really the"},{"startTime":2084.21,"endTime":2086.58,"body":"out of the box thinkers."},{"startTime":2086.61,"endTime":2094.84,"body":"And you know, the, the empathy part, And"},{"startTime":2086.61,"endTime":2094.84,"body":"that's cultural, right, is just in those"},{"startTime":2094.86,"endTime":2100.22,"body":"countries, you know, way and way and"},{"startTime":2094.86,"endTime":2100.22,"body":"way and way and way less well developed"},{"startTime":2100.3,"endTime":2101.82,"body":"than in other parts of the world."},{"startTime":2102.09,"endTime":2106.31,"body":"Yeah, I understand it in that"},{"startTime":2102.09,"endTime":2106.31,"body":"quite sort of, you know, binary"},{"startTime":2106.31,"endTime":2108.16,"body":"level of, of, of culture."},{"startTime":2108.16,"endTime":2111.94,"body":"I think most of the world exists"},{"startTime":2108.16,"endTime":2111.94,"body":"in a slightly more opaque, if this"},{"startTime":2111.94,"endTime":2115.04,"body":"was a technology readiness level"},{"startTime":2111.94,"endTime":2115.04,"body":"assessment of a culture, like most"},{"startTime":2115.04,"endTime":2116.87,"body":"of us, or a normal distribution."},{"startTime":2117.17,"endTime":2118.95,"body":"We're kind of, yeah, good."},{"startTime":2119.0,"endTime":2119.21,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2119.21,"endTime":2119.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2119.42,"endTime":2120.65,"body":"So that's why I struggle a bit with it."},{"startTime":2120.65,"endTime":2122.83,"body":"Cause I don't think there's"},{"startTime":2120.65,"endTime":2122.83,"body":"like lots of rotten cultures out"},{"startTime":2122.83,"endTime":2125.62,"body":"there or anything to do with it."},{"startTime":2125.81,"endTime":2126.06,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2126.06,"endTime":2130.53,"body":"That's, that's part of my, part of my, my"},{"startTime":2126.06,"endTime":2130.53,"body":"reasoning and effort feels like another"},{"startTime":2130.53,"endTime":2134.8,"body":"one of these hard to access intangible"},{"startTime":2130.53,"endTime":2134.8,"body":"innovation things that's like, yeah, it's"},{"startTime":2134.8,"endTime":2136.189,"body":"important, but what do I do with that?"},{"startTime":2136.19,"endTime":2136.33,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2136.33,"endTime":2137.06,"body":"How do I change that?"},{"startTime":2137.72,"endTime":2139.48,"body":"Um, what does that, what"},{"startTime":2137.72,"endTime":2139.48,"body":"does that look like?"},{"startTime":2139.81,"endTime":2142.46,"body":"And I guess it's a part of the"},{"startTime":2139.81,"endTime":2142.46,"body":"recipe of everything else, right."},{"startTime":2142.46,"endTime":2145.3,"body":"Which is why, which is"},{"startTime":2142.46,"endTime":2145.3,"body":"equally just candidly why I."},{"startTime":2145.72,"endTime":2148.71,"body":"Totally recognize it as important"},{"startTime":2145.72,"endTime":2148.71,"body":"and totally struggle with it"},{"startTime":2149.19,"endTime":2149.96,"body":"from a business perspective."},{"startTime":2149.96,"endTime":2153.65,"body":"On the other hand, you know, another"},{"startTime":2149.96,"endTime":2153.65,"body":"simplification is I've been traveling"},{"startTime":2153.66,"endTime":2158.11,"body":"the world the last 10 years, you know, my"},{"startTime":2153.66,"endTime":2158.11,"body":"methodology, you know, LinkedIn took my"},{"startTime":2158.11,"endTime":2160.04,"body":"methodology, spread it all over the world."},{"startTime":2160.04,"endTime":2165.07,"body":"And you know, I had to say methodology"},{"startTime":2160.04,"endTime":2165.07,"body":"and they use it everywhere."},{"startTime":2165.88,"endTime":2170.42,"body":"And the cooler it gets, they say,"},{"startTime":2165.88,"endTime":2170.42,"body":"Oh, you know, what I really like."},{"startTime":2171.125,"endTime":2175.925,"body":"Of this methodology, it brings us"},{"startTime":2171.125,"endTime":2175.925,"body":"creativity and the warmer it gets,"},{"startTime":2176.425,"endTime":2180.305,"body":"they say, Oh, what I really like this"},{"startTime":2176.425,"endTime":2180.305,"body":"methodology is bringing me structure."},{"startTime":2180.575,"endTime":2182.775,"body":"Now, isn't that what innovation is?"},{"startTime":2183.695,"endTime":2186.755,"body":"It's combining creativity"},{"startTime":2183.695,"endTime":2186.755,"body":"and, and structure, right?"},{"startTime":2186.815,"endTime":2188.695,"body":"That's what it, that's what it bridges."},{"startTime":2190.055,"endTime":2194.205,"body":"And so in the north, in Finland and"},{"startTime":2190.055,"endTime":2194.205,"body":"in Sweden, where you live, Oh, come"},{"startTime":2194.205,"endTime":2197.965,"body":"on, you know, it brought creativity,"},{"startTime":2194.205,"endTime":2197.965,"body":"but I'm living now in Italy, in Italy"},{"startTime":2197.965,"endTime":2201.755,"body":"and in Greece and in Spain, they"},{"startTime":2197.965,"endTime":2201.755,"body":"say, Oh, you know, we got all those,"},{"startTime":2202.455,"endTime":2205.815,"body":"all those things flying around and"},{"startTime":2202.455,"endTime":2205.815,"body":"you, and you just give a structure"},{"startTime":2205.825,"endTime":2207.845,"body":"on how to transform it into reality."},{"startTime":2208.375,"endTime":2212.185,"body":"So I think those are really differences,"},{"startTime":2208.375,"endTime":2212.185,"body":"which, uh, which are important"},{"startTime":2212.255,"endTime":2215.575,"body":"to see, especially when you're"},{"startTime":2212.255,"endTime":2215.575,"body":"working with worldwide companies."},{"startTime":2215.9,"endTime":2220.7,"body":"You know, that, uh, that there's a huge"},{"startTime":2215.9,"endTime":2220.7,"body":"difference in culture and the culture of."},{"startTime":2222.095,"endTime":2225.465,"body":"And it was different within an"},{"startTime":2222.095,"endTime":2225.465,"body":"organization of a corporate culture,"},{"startTime":2225.465,"endTime":2229.765,"body":"but there is, it's so difficult to"},{"startTime":2225.465,"endTime":2229.765,"body":"change a corporate culture, to be quite"},{"startTime":2229.765,"endTime":2231.375,"body":"honest, you just have to deal with it."},{"startTime":2231.785,"endTime":2232.215,"body":"No, exactly."},{"startTime":2232.215,"endTime":2234.515,"body":"And I think that's, that's"},{"startTime":2232.215,"endTime":2234.515,"body":"kind of part of my point."},{"startTime":2234.995,"endTime":2237.295,"body":"So I'm going to move"},{"startTime":2234.995,"endTime":2237.295,"body":"us, move us on slightly."},{"startTime":2237.295,"endTime":2240.135,"body":"And I was in a meeting actually"},{"startTime":2237.295,"endTime":2240.135,"body":"earlier today, talking about this,"},{"startTime":2240.195,"endTime":2244.665,"body":"like was Oku has been in heavy"},{"startTime":2240.195,"endTime":2244.665,"body":"innovation mode ourselves, right?"},{"startTime":2244.665,"endTime":2248.675,"body":"Building lots of new"},{"startTime":2244.665,"endTime":2248.675,"body":"capabilities to, to the market."},{"startTime":2248.715,"endTime":2250.645,"body":"And, Quite quickly, right?"},{"startTime":2250.655,"endTime":2251.805,"body":"A lot of a lot of pace."},{"startTime":2251.805,"endTime":2255.895,"body":"And we were talking about this concept"},{"startTime":2251.805,"endTime":2255.895,"body":"of proving customer commitment."},{"startTime":2255.895,"endTime":2257.425,"body":"There's lots of nice feedback, right?"},{"startTime":2257.425,"endTime":2259.315,"body":"There's lots of stuff"},{"startTime":2257.425,"endTime":2259.315,"body":"coming our direction."},{"startTime":2259.315,"endTime":2262.025,"body":"But, you know, picking the"},{"startTime":2259.315,"endTime":2262.025,"body":"right signals out of that."},{"startTime":2262.025,"endTime":2263.125,"body":"I'm really understanding it."},{"startTime":2263.125,"endTime":2266.415,"body":"So let's get into that topic of, you"},{"startTime":2263.125,"endTime":2266.415,"body":"know, how can you understand and prove"},{"startTime":2266.455,"endTime":2269.745,"body":"customer commitments to what we're what"},{"startTime":2266.455,"endTime":2269.745,"body":"you're innovating, what you're building?"},{"startTime":2270.37,"endTime":2273.89,"body":"Well, it's, you know, so I love"},{"startTime":2270.37,"endTime":2273.89,"body":"to, uh, I love to pretotype"},{"startTime":2274.99,"endTime":2276.29,"body":"instead of prototype, right?"},{"startTime":2276.29,"endTime":2280.72,"body":"So, um, I think that co creation"},{"startTime":2276.29,"endTime":2280.72,"body":"with customers is essential as"},{"startTime":2280.94,"endTime":2284.66,"body":"early in the front end as possible"},{"startTime":2280.94,"endTime":2284.66,"body":"as early in the front end."},{"startTime":2284.71,"endTime":2287.86,"body":"And you should test everything"},{"startTime":2284.71,"endTime":2287.86,"body":"life when it doesn't, when it"},{"startTime":2287.88,"endTime":2291.19,"body":"works, you continue when it doesn't"},{"startTime":2287.88,"endTime":2291.19,"body":"work, you stop it immediately."},{"startTime":2291.21,"endTime":2296.05,"body":"So that's what I, especially in business"},{"startTime":2291.21,"endTime":2296.05,"body":"to business, also where you are, right?"},{"startTime":2296.89,"endTime":2299.29,"body":"Only do experiments with clients only."},{"startTime":2299.885,"endTime":2303.845,"body":"As soon as you've got something, you"},{"startTime":2299.885,"endTime":2303.845,"body":"know, and you can do, of course, first a"},{"startTime":2303.845,"endTime":2305.285,"body":"prototype to see if they would love it."},{"startTime":2305.595,"endTime":2308.585,"body":"And when they would love it, say, okay,"},{"startTime":2305.595,"endTime":2308.585,"body":"would you like to make a kind of a, you"},{"startTime":2308.585,"endTime":2312.085,"body":"know, a better version and then, you"},{"startTime":2308.585,"endTime":2312.085,"body":"know, make immediately better version"},{"startTime":2312.085,"endTime":2313.475,"body":"with a client, that's what I would do."},{"startTime":2314.305,"endTime":2314.565,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2314.635,"endTime":2316.295,"body":"I mean, I'm inclined to agree."},{"startTime":2316.295,"endTime":2320.335,"body":"I think again, for not wanting to"},{"startTime":2316.295,"endTime":2320.335,"body":"continually play my own violin here,"},{"startTime":2320.425,"endTime":2322.785,"body":"I think crowdsourcing does a great"},{"startTime":2320.425,"endTime":2322.785,"body":"job of this as well, because it"},{"startTime":2322.825,"endTime":2326.835,"body":"gives you perspectives from various"},{"startTime":2322.825,"endTime":2326.835,"body":"angles around the world, right?"},{"startTime":2326.835,"endTime":2327.805,"body":"One of the challenges."},{"startTime":2328.545,"endTime":2331.435,"body":"I've seen with sometimes with customers"},{"startTime":2328.545,"endTime":2331.435,"body":"is they come very much from their"},{"startTime":2331.435,"endTime":2333.405,"body":"lens at that particular point in time."},{"startTime":2333.405,"endTime":2333.815,"body":"And it can be quite difficult."},{"startTime":2333.815,"endTime":2336.515,"body":"But you know, you have to prove"},{"startTime":2333.815,"endTime":2336.515,"body":"Simon because I'm going to stop"},{"startTime":2336.515,"endTime":2338.195,"body":"you here on crowdsourcing, right?"},{"startTime":2338.195,"endTime":2343.005,"body":"And because sure, Simon, sure."},{"startTime":2343.045,"endTime":2344.765,"body":"But does it work for me?"},{"startTime":2344.975,"endTime":2345.595,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2345.675,"endTime":2349.465,"body":"My company is so special and we"},{"startTime":2345.675,"endTime":2349.465,"body":"have such a special culture and"},{"startTime":2349.465,"endTime":2350.415,"body":"our customers are so special."},{"startTime":2350.875,"endTime":2352.745,"body":"Anybody thinks he's really special."},{"startTime":2353.055,"endTime":2356.525,"body":"And as long as that belief is"},{"startTime":2353.055,"endTime":2356.525,"body":"there, you can say, I bring the"},{"startTime":2356.525,"endTime":2359.685,"body":"knowledge of the whole world and"},{"startTime":2356.525,"endTime":2359.685,"body":"I will say, but we are different."},{"startTime":2359.995,"endTime":2363.275,"body":"Yeah, no, I look, I appreciate"},{"startTime":2359.995,"endTime":2363.275,"body":"that and hear it every day as well."},{"startTime":2363.275,"endTime":2366.865,"body":"And, and that's, you know, that's"},{"startTime":2363.275,"endTime":2366.865,"body":"partly why we, we, we continue the"},{"startTime":2366.865,"endTime":2368.045,"body":"good fight of what we're doing."},{"startTime":2368.125,"endTime":2368.375,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2368.375,"endTime":2372.175,"body":"And it isn't just, uh, it isn't purely"},{"startTime":2368.375,"endTime":2372.175,"body":"just for building a great business."},{"startTime":2372.175,"endTime":2375.015,"body":"Obviously that's the backbone of"},{"startTime":2372.175,"endTime":2375.015,"body":"where I put my energy, but because I"},{"startTime":2375.075,"endTime":2378.475,"body":"fundamentally know that this is a better"},{"startTime":2375.075,"endTime":2378.475,"body":"way of driving the outcomes that we're."},{"startTime":2378.94,"endTime":2381.71,"body":"That, that we're, that we're"},{"startTime":2378.94,"endTime":2381.71,"body":"talking about, but you know, co"},{"startTime":2382.07,"endTime":2383.55,"body":"creation doesn't come naturally."},{"startTime":2383.61,"endTime":2387.83,"body":"Again, it's like you talk about"},{"startTime":2383.61,"endTime":2387.83,"body":"creativity and design thinking."},{"startTime":2387.84,"endTime":2390.91,"body":"And, you know, maybe with people are"},{"startTime":2387.84,"endTime":2390.91,"body":"saying we're beyond design thinking"},{"startTime":2390.92,"endTime":2392.47,"body":"now into something else as well."},{"startTime":2392.47,"endTime":2397.49,"body":"Like in reality, all of the messages"},{"startTime":2392.47,"endTime":2397.49,"body":"of those very good structures, ways"},{"startTime":2397.49,"endTime":2400.6,"body":"of working frameworks, whatever"},{"startTime":2397.49,"endTime":2400.6,"body":"you want to call them, they're"},{"startTime":2400.6,"endTime":2402.27,"body":"still not hugely integrated."},{"startTime":2402.27,"endTime":2404.97,"body":"Now there are certain skillsets"},{"startTime":2402.27,"endTime":2404.97,"body":"and certain people in businesses"},{"startTime":2404.97,"endTime":2406.89,"body":"will be shaking their head"},{"startTime":2404.97,"endTime":2406.89,"body":"saying you're all wrong, Simon."},{"startTime":2406.89,"endTime":2408.24,"body":"I'm like, but not generally."},{"startTime":2408.65,"endTime":2412.89,"body":"In the way that things are done on a"},{"startTime":2408.65,"endTime":2412.89,"body":"day to day basis inside organizations,"},{"startTime":2412.92,"endTime":2414.26,"body":"like we're just not good at it, right?"},{"startTime":2414.52,"endTime":2419.28,"body":"Like customer co creation in a"},{"startTime":2414.52,"endTime":2419.28,"body":"truly deeper, meaningful way."},{"startTime":2419.28,"endTime":2421.43,"body":"And it doesn't have to be"},{"startTime":2419.28,"endTime":2421.43,"body":"expensive or complicated."},{"startTime":2421.43,"endTime":2425.26,"body":"Actually, it can be pretty cheap and,"},{"startTime":2421.43,"endTime":2425.26,"body":"and efficient just isn't well done."},{"startTime":2425.26,"endTime":2426.45,"body":"And it's not well understood."},{"startTime":2426.45,"endTime":2428.23,"body":"And the signals are not well received."},{"startTime":2428.24,"endTime":2433.76,"body":"Well, now here you say something"},{"startTime":2428.24,"endTime":2433.76,"body":"because it's not well understood."},{"startTime":2434.57,"endTime":2436.66,"body":"And that's where the main problem is."},{"startTime":2437.55,"endTime":2438.9,"body":"It's not well understood."},{"startTime":2439.245,"endTime":2444.165,"body":"So what I learned, and of course you"},{"startTime":2439.245,"endTime":2444.165,"body":"are the technical guy, you're the front"},{"startTime":2444.165,"endTime":2446.485,"body":"runner and you're doing a great job."},{"startTime":2447.245,"endTime":2452.405,"body":"But I also learned that you only need to,"},{"startTime":2447.245,"endTime":2452.405,"body":"to walk one step before your customer."},{"startTime":2452.415,"endTime":2453.935,"body":"Otherwise you lose him already."},{"startTime":2455.235,"endTime":2459.245,"body":"And you are 10 steps ahead or"},{"startTime":2455.235,"endTime":2459.245,"body":"a hundred steps ahead, but you"},{"startTime":2459.245,"endTime":2461.855,"body":"have to take him hand by hand."},{"startTime":2461.855,"endTime":2467.2,"body":"And also the point is that You know,"},{"startTime":2461.855,"endTime":2467.2,"body":"you have to create internally your"},{"startTime":2467.2,"endTime":2471.64,"body":"innovation ambassadors and you have to"},{"startTime":2467.2,"endTime":2471.64,"body":"create your own innovation ambassadors"},{"startTime":2471.71,"endTime":2473.7,"body":"who understand the value of it."},{"startTime":2474.925,"endTime":2478.175,"body":"Because if you don't do it, you"},{"startTime":2474.925,"endTime":2478.175,"body":"know, there are wonderful tools"},{"startTime":2478.195,"endTime":2481.125,"body":"and nobody uses them, right."},{"startTime":2481.705,"endTime":2484.315,"body":"And you can, and you"},{"startTime":2481.705,"endTime":2484.315,"body":"can blame the customer."},{"startTime":2484.555,"endTime":2488.185,"body":"You don't understand it, but who is"},{"startTime":2484.555,"endTime":2488.185,"body":"not understanding who here, right?"},{"startTime":2488.945,"endTime":2495.795,"body":"You just did not find your own, you know,"},{"startTime":2488.945,"endTime":2495.795,"body":"you did not find the way to present it"},{"startTime":2495.805,"endTime":2499.145,"body":"to clients that they adopted right now."},{"startTime":2499.145,"endTime":2502.015,"body":"And you can blame the clients."},{"startTime":2502.735,"endTime":2503.845,"body":"But again, three fingers crossed."},{"startTime":2504.205,"endTime":2505.475,"body":"I completely agree."},{"startTime":2505.475,"endTime":2507.195,"body":"I'm not blaming the clients"},{"startTime":2505.475,"endTime":2507.195,"body":"either, to be clear."},{"startTime":2507.405,"endTime":2511.345,"body":"There's this famous, there's a scene in,"},{"startTime":2507.405,"endTime":2511.345,"body":"there's a scene in Ocean's Eleven, right?"},{"startTime":2511.345,"endTime":2515.805,"body":"Where they're, they're robbing the casino"},{"startTime":2511.345,"endTime":2515.805,"body":"and they pull the double bluff and all"},{"startTime":2515.805,"endTime":2519.775,"body":"the, all the police and authorities"},{"startTime":2515.805,"endTime":2519.775,"body":"believe they're following the van full"},{"startTime":2519.775,"endTime":2523.085,"body":"of the money and they pull it up at"},{"startTime":2519.775,"endTime":2523.085,"body":"the, at the airstrip and open the doors,"},{"startTime":2523.085,"endTime":2527.12,"body":"expecting to find all the money in"},{"startTime":2523.085,"endTime":2527.12,"body":"there and find all of the, The flyers"},{"startTime":2527.55,"endTime":2529.51,"body":"from, from the casino will all cut up."},{"startTime":2529.54,"endTime":2529.76,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2529.76,"endTime":2533.74,"body":"And it's, you know, whatever that"},{"startTime":2529.76,"endTime":2533.74,"body":"they, and this, this belief is full"},{"startTime":2533.74,"endTime":2538.12,"body":"on being high on hopium concepts"},{"startTime":2533.74,"endTime":2538.12,"body":"that you're, you know, everything"},{"startTime":2538.12,"endTime":2539.57,"body":"you're doing is chasing the money."},{"startTime":2539.73,"endTime":2543.56,"body":"And in reality, it's just a van full"},{"startTime":2539.73,"endTime":2543.56,"body":"of, you know, flyers and whatever."},{"startTime":2543.56,"endTime":2545.1,"body":"And I think that's still."},{"startTime":2545.375,"endTime":2547.245,"body":"Unfortunately too too common, right?"},{"startTime":2547.245,"endTime":2549.475,"body":"I think that happens very"},{"startTime":2547.245,"endTime":2549.475,"body":"early in the process, right?"},{"startTime":2549.515,"endTime":2553.855,"body":"Sometimes even before the project is fully"},{"startTime":2549.515,"endTime":2553.855,"body":"initiated That we're so high on that."},{"startTime":2553.855,"endTime":2557.145,"body":"This is the right initiative This is the"},{"startTime":2553.855,"endTime":2557.145,"body":"right thing to do that We're not really"},{"startTime":2557.435,"endTime":2561.025,"body":"listening and following the signals and"},{"startTime":2557.435,"endTime":2561.025,"body":"that's that's part of what I think comes"},{"startTime":2561.025,"endTime":2566.045,"body":"out in your in your book and your research"},{"startTime":2561.025,"endTime":2566.045,"body":"and and and in your other processes as"},{"startTime":2566.045,"endTime":2569.34,"body":"well and very much something that You"},{"startTime":2566.045,"endTime":2569.34,"body":"know, I'm trying to help correct from a"},{"startTime":2569.34,"endTime":2571.56,"body":"data angle on a crowd sourcing as well."},{"startTime":2571.56,"endTime":2575.9,"body":"Yeah, let's, let's, let's drill into"},{"startTime":2571.56,"endTime":2575.9,"body":"this, you know, how, like there's, there's"},{"startTime":2575.9,"endTime":2578.91,"body":"two questions here in one that I'm going"},{"startTime":2575.9,"endTime":2578.91,"body":"to throw at you partly to keep us on"},{"startTime":2578.94,"endTime":2583.86,"body":"time a little bit, but how does someone"},{"startTime":2578.94,"endTime":2583.86,"body":"therefore become a great innovator?"},{"startTime":2583.93,"endTime":2585.38,"body":"Like, what does that really mean?"},{"startTime":2585.97,"endTime":2589.71,"body":"And, and, and combining that, I'm going"},{"startTime":2585.97,"endTime":2589.71,"body":"to say in that, that, that being a"},{"startTime":2589.71,"endTime":2591.92,"body":"great innovator is, is about building."},{"startTime":2592.565,"endTime":2595.335,"body":"A better tomorrow and creating"},{"startTime":2592.565,"endTime":2595.335,"body":"that that positive impact, right?"},{"startTime":2595.335,"endTime":2597.035,"body":"So it's kind of bring"},{"startTime":2595.335,"endTime":2597.035,"body":"those things together."},{"startTime":2597.375,"endTime":2601.825,"body":"You know, I describe this as the best job"},{"startTime":2597.375,"endTime":2601.825,"body":"that anyone could have working innovation,"},{"startTime":2601.855,"endTime":2605.205,"body":"but it must be, you don't want to be that"},{"startTime":2601.855,"endTime":2605.205,"body":"frustrated, frustrated innovator that's"},{"startTime":2605.215,"endTime":2609.215,"body":"lying there at the end, you know, looking"},{"startTime":2605.215,"endTime":2609.215,"body":"at your grandchildren and explaining this"},{"startTime":2609.215,"endTime":2612.625,"body":"amazing opportunity that you had, but it"},{"startTime":2609.215,"endTime":2612.625,"body":"was never quite as good as it could be."},{"startTime":2612.945,"endTime":2613.115,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2613.115,"endTime":2617.345,"body":"So how do we get more proud"},{"startTime":2613.115,"endTime":2617.345,"body":"in this evolving vocation,"},{"startTime":2617.355,"endTime":2618.485,"body":"this involving profession?"},{"startTime":2619.34,"endTime":2622.77,"body":"Well, you know, for me, um, the moment"},{"startTime":2619.34,"endTime":2622.77,"body":"that makes a difference was the following."},{"startTime":2623.78,"endTime":2627.44,"body":"I think all the insights"},{"startTime":2623.78,"endTime":2627.44,"body":"after I left is, um,"},{"startTime":2631.15,"endTime":2634.23,"body":"but first I'm going to ask"},{"startTime":2631.15,"endTime":2634.23,"body":"you, say another thing."},{"startTime":2634.39,"endTime":2639.5,"body":"The other thing is this, who determines"},{"startTime":2634.39,"endTime":2639.5,"body":"the speed of the organization?"},{"startTime":2640.92,"endTime":2643.98,"body":"You get some innovators in, they start"},{"startTime":2640.92,"endTime":2643.98,"body":"running, running, running, you know,"},{"startTime":2643.98,"endTime":2649.6,"body":"to, to make the company faster, more"},{"startTime":2643.98,"endTime":2649.6,"body":"agile, more, but who is determining the"},{"startTime":2649.6,"endTime":2651.69,"body":"speed of the herd of the organization?"},{"startTime":2652.13,"endTime":2653.62,"body":"It are the slowest animals."},{"startTime":2654.13,"endTime":2654.42,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2656.43,"endTime":2660.82,"body":"As innovator, I walk on the front and"},{"startTime":2656.43,"endTime":2660.82,"body":"I look back, I say, Hey, you stupid."},{"startTime":2663.05,"endTime":2664.04,"body":"Come on, come on."},{"startTime":2664.39,"endTime":2665.83,"body":"What take you so long?"},{"startTime":2665.83,"endTime":2666.48,"body":"Come on."},{"startTime":2667.05,"endTime":2667.92,"body":"You think they listen?"},{"startTime":2668.06,"endTime":2668.62,"body":"Of course not."},{"startTime":2670.3,"endTime":2672.07,"body":"The moment we changed."},{"startTime":2673.55,"endTime":2677.71,"body":"Was that I changed my thinking"},{"startTime":2673.55,"endTime":2677.71,"body":"completely, a hundred percent."},{"startTime":2678.23,"endTime":2679.19,"body":"I was frustrated."},{"startTime":2680.16,"endTime":2684.23,"body":"Because I assumed innovation"},{"startTime":2680.16,"endTime":2684.23,"body":"was the normal thing."},{"startTime":2685.54,"endTime":2691.87,"body":"The moment you accept, really accept"},{"startTime":2685.54,"endTime":2691.87,"body":"that conservatism is the normal,"},{"startTime":2693.84,"endTime":2697.79,"body":"the whole organization has an immune"},{"startTime":2693.84,"endTime":2697.79,"body":"system protecting it, protecting"},{"startTime":2697.79,"endTime":2701.74,"body":"the daily business and as innovator,"},{"startTime":2697.79,"endTime":2701.74,"body":"you attack the immune system."},{"startTime":2702.16,"endTime":2705.81,"body":"And the moment you want to change"},{"startTime":2702.16,"endTime":2705.81,"body":"one little thing, all the white"},{"startTime":2705.81,"endTime":2710.26,"body":"blood vessels come through, you"},{"startTime":2705.81,"endTime":2710.26,"body":"know, that's a normal thing."},{"startTime":2711.16,"endTime":2712.95,"body":"The moment that I accept it."},{"startTime":2713.845,"endTime":2715.885,"body":"That conservatism was"},{"startTime":2718.185,"endTime":2718.835,"body":"the standard."},{"startTime":2720.255,"endTime":2724.945,"body":"I could, I went to the back, I start to"},{"startTime":2720.255,"endTime":2724.945,"body":"talk to the most conservative people."},{"startTime":2726.045,"endTime":2727.515,"body":"I start to understand them."},{"startTime":2727.545,"endTime":2730.161,"body":"And when I couldn't understand"},{"startTime":2727.545,"endTime":2730.161,"body":"them, I could connect to them."},{"startTime":2730.161,"endTime":2734.165,"body":"And when I could connect to them,"},{"startTime":2730.161,"endTime":2734.165,"body":"I could lead them in that order."},{"startTime":2736.095,"endTime":2737.685,"body":"And then they followed me."},{"startTime":2737.895,"endTime":2742.655,"body":"And then I let the last part"},{"startTime":2737.895,"endTime":2742.655,"body":"of the herd walk faster and"},{"startTime":2742.655,"endTime":2744.055,"body":"the whole organization moved."},{"startTime":2745.365,"endTime":2750.195,"body":"So I think this is very important"},{"startTime":2745.365,"endTime":2750.195,"body":"that we as innovator, innovators"},{"startTime":2750.525,"endTime":2756.565,"body":"should accept The conservatism"},{"startTime":2750.525,"endTime":2756.565,"body":"of this big giant organization."},{"startTime":2757.625,"endTime":2763.395,"body":"And we have to do it step by step and"},{"startTime":2757.625,"endTime":2763.395,"body":"we, we, you must not do innovation"},{"startTime":2763.785,"endTime":2766.335,"body":"projects with innovators only."},{"startTime":2768.005,"endTime":2769.965,"body":"Well, you know, the Muppets,"},{"startTime":2768.005,"endTime":2769.965,"body":"you know, the Muppet show,"},{"startTime":2772.125,"endTime":2773.405,"body":"Waldorf and Stadler."},{"startTime":2774.385,"endTime":2780.245,"body":"You should take them in the team out of"},{"startTime":2774.385,"endTime":2780.245,"body":"the 10, take Waldorf and Stadler with you."},{"startTime":2780.525,"endTime":2780.985,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2781.145,"endTime":2783.725,"body":"Your project goes slower,"},{"startTime":2781.145,"endTime":2783.725,"body":"but in the end it moves."},{"startTime":2785.21,"endTime":2788.5,"body":"You know, you're moving a much"},{"startTime":2785.21,"endTime":2788.5,"body":"more longer way because once they"},{"startTime":2788.52,"endTime":2792.82,"body":"buy in Woldorf and Stadler, wow,"},{"startTime":2788.52,"endTime":2792.82,"body":"the whole company moves, right?"},{"startTime":2792.82,"endTime":2798.11,"body":"So, and this is how you should on"},{"startTime":2792.82,"endTime":2798.11,"body":"the soft side, get everybody in."},{"startTime":2798.53,"endTime":2803.37,"body":"So the point is that that first"},{"startTime":2798.53,"endTime":2803.37,"body":"accepts that your organization"},{"startTime":2803.38,"endTime":2805.889,"body":"is as conservative as it is."},{"startTime":2806.37,"endTime":2810.5,"body":"Now, for me, there are three things,"},{"startTime":2806.37,"endTime":2810.5,"body":"which are, I described 10 things to"},{"startTime":2810.51,"endTime":2813.9,"body":"be a great innovator, and then you"},{"startTime":2810.51,"endTime":2813.9,"body":"heard already a lot of them, but"},{"startTime":2813.96,"endTime":2819.515,"body":"what I recently Of course, what is,"},{"startTime":2813.96,"endTime":2819.515,"body":"what, you know, persistency is of"},{"startTime":2819.515,"endTime":2822.965,"body":"course what everybody says, but it"},{"startTime":2819.515,"endTime":2822.965,"body":"really, really, really is important."},{"startTime":2824.595,"endTime":2827.165,"body":"Innovation doesn't stop at the first no."},{"startTime":2828.635,"endTime":2830.105,"body":"That's the moment it starts."},{"startTime":2830.515,"endTime":2830.885,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":2831.345,"endTime":2832.125,"body":"It starts."},{"startTime":2832.135,"endTime":2833.558,"body":"You will get hundred no's."},{"startTime":2833.558,"endTime":2837.815,"body":"So the moment is, ah, the first no, yes."},{"startTime":2839.235,"endTime":2840.095,"body":"Now we start."},{"startTime":2841.195,"endTime":2843.905,"body":"The sooner you get the first no,"},{"startTime":2841.195,"endTime":2843.905,"body":"the sooner you can really start."},{"startTime":2844.045,"endTime":2844.865,"body":"Because then you,"},{"startTime":2847.355,"endTime":2851.505,"body":"Then you, uh, um, get into the"},{"startTime":2847.355,"endTime":2851.505,"body":"real transformation process, right?"},{"startTime":2851.865,"endTime":2854.685,"body":"So first of all, and then"},{"startTime":2851.865,"endTime":2854.685,"body":"you need to be persistent."},{"startTime":2855.015,"endTime":2857.965,"body":"Now, what I noticed is"},{"startTime":2855.015,"endTime":2857.965,"body":"that people love stories."},{"startTime":2858.68,"endTime":2862.13,"body":"And you, of course, you can come"},{"startTime":2858.68,"endTime":2862.13,"body":"with the data, you can come up with"},{"startTime":2862.61,"endTime":2866.85,"body":"a hundred experts from all over the"},{"startTime":2862.61,"endTime":2866.85,"body":"world, but a good story, like you"},{"startTime":2866.85,"endTime":2871.82,"body":"told yourself, Simon, a good story"},{"startTime":2866.85,"endTime":2871.82,"body":"convinces, so be a good storyteller."},{"startTime":2872.18,"endTime":2875.66,"body":"A good story is about emotions"},{"startTime":2872.18,"endTime":2875.66,"body":"and it's about real people."},{"startTime":2876.68,"endTime":2879.32,"body":"And that convinces us"},{"startTime":2876.68,"endTime":2879.32,"body":"because we remember that."},{"startTime":2880.145,"endTime":2883.775,"body":"And the third thing is,"},{"startTime":2880.145,"endTime":2883.775,"body":"Oh guys, I need to change."},{"startTime":2883.775,"endTime":2885.165,"body":"I want to become a great innovator."},{"startTime":2885.275,"endTime":2889.315,"body":"I said, don't change because"},{"startTime":2885.275,"endTime":2889.315,"body":"you must stay authentic."},{"startTime":2889.335,"endTime":2890.545,"body":"You must stay yourself."},{"startTime":2891.75,"endTime":2895.69,"body":"Because people will follow people"},{"startTime":2891.75,"endTime":2895.69,"body":"who they believe and they trust."},{"startTime":2896.22,"endTime":2901.84,"body":"So an introvert, an introvert R"},{"startTime":2896.22,"endTime":2901.84,"body":"and D guy can still be the perfect"},{"startTime":2901.85,"endTime":2905.81,"body":"innovator to lead the team, even"},{"startTime":2901.85,"endTime":2905.81,"body":"as long as he or she is authentic."},{"startTime":2906.37,"endTime":2910.11,"body":"And then you get the credibility from"},{"startTime":2906.37,"endTime":2910.11,"body":"the rest and the respect of the rest."},{"startTime":2910.12,"endTime":2912.15,"body":"So you don't have to change yourself."},{"startTime":2913.865,"endTime":2916.735,"body":"Be authentic, be a good"},{"startTime":2913.865,"endTime":2916.735,"body":"storyteller, be persistent."},{"startTime":2917.175,"endTime":2919.595,"body":"Those are three things I"},{"startTime":2917.175,"endTime":2919.595,"body":"just want to highlight now."},{"startTime":2920.655,"endTime":2920.875,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2920.875,"endTime":2925.515,"body":"I look, I, I'm going to start to wind"},{"startTime":2920.875,"endTime":2925.515,"body":"us up, but I know there's a lot more"},{"startTime":2925.635,"endTime":2928.715,"body":"in the book and there's a lot more"},{"startTime":2925.635,"endTime":2928.715,"body":"in your frameworks and others that"},{"startTime":2928.715,"endTime":2933.605,"body":"sit behind all of this, then we can"},{"startTime":2928.715,"endTime":2933.605,"body":"cover in a very good conversation,"},{"startTime":2933.605,"endTime":2935.275,"body":"but still a short conversation, right?"},{"startTime":2935.295,"endTime":2936.665,"body":"So I."},{"startTime":2937.285,"endTime":2938.365,"body":"I echo these points."},{"startTime":2938.435,"endTime":2941.145,"body":"I think there's one in there that"},{"startTime":2938.435,"endTime":2941.145,"body":"says align innovation to strategy."},{"startTime":2941.145,"endTime":2943.595,"body":"That's just front and"},{"startTime":2941.145,"endTime":2943.595,"body":"center perspective as well."},{"startTime":2943.605,"endTime":2946.965,"body":"And too often that that isn't"},{"startTime":2943.605,"endTime":2946.965,"body":"the case often because strategy"},{"startTime":2946.965,"endTime":2948.115,"body":"is not very well understood."},{"startTime":2948.115,"endTime":2951.205,"body":"It may well be well defined in a"},{"startTime":2948.115,"endTime":2951.205,"body":"piece of paper, but not very well"},{"startTime":2951.205,"endTime":2954.145,"body":"understood by the business, um, as well."},{"startTime":2954.545,"endTime":2959.45,"body":"And I think partly that's because there"},{"startTime":2954.545,"endTime":2959.45,"body":"are too many different Chefs in the in"},{"startTime":2959.45,"endTime":2963.21,"body":"the process that are doing their bit of"},{"startTime":2959.45,"endTime":2963.21,"body":"it But no one quite understands how they"},{"startTime":2963.21,"endTime":2967.14,"body":"all fall together with this strategy at"},{"startTime":2963.21,"endTime":2967.14,"body":"the top of it That's often owned by a"},{"startTime":2967.14,"endTime":2972.17,"body":"different person right and and and not"},{"startTime":2967.14,"endTime":2972.17,"body":"so understood So I'm gonna I'm gonna"},{"startTime":2972.17,"endTime":2974.14,"body":"start to winders winders in a little bit."},{"startTime":2974.14,"endTime":2978.51,"body":"I mean, thank you for the insights"},{"startTime":2974.14,"endTime":2978.51,"body":"that you have shared today."},{"startTime":2979.02,"endTime":2981.52,"body":"Um, I think we could probably do"},{"startTime":2979.02,"endTime":2981.52,"body":"a podcast on each of the different"},{"startTime":2981.57,"endTime":2984.91,"body":"areas and we should definitely"},{"startTime":2981.57,"endTime":2984.91,"body":"produce a bit more content."},{"startTime":2985.0,"endTime":2987.11,"body":"I I've genuinely enjoyed this discussion."},{"startTime":2987.11,"endTime":2991.09,"body":"I appreciate the fact that you've"},{"startTime":2987.11,"endTime":2991.09,"body":"asked me some questions, um, and that"},{"startTime":2991.09,"endTime":2993.94,"body":"this draws on years of experience."},{"startTime":2993.99,"endTime":2994.97,"body":"I'm not dating you."},{"startTime":2994.97,"endTime":2998.78,"body":"You've dated yourself a few times in this"},{"startTime":2994.97,"endTime":2998.78,"body":"call, but I think uniquely synthesize both"},{"startTime":2998.8,"endTime":3004.175,"body":"the challenge and the opportunity that"},{"startTime":2998.8,"endTime":3004.175,"body":"confronts Innovators of all ilks, right?"},{"startTime":3004.175,"endTime":3008.605,"body":"You know, I'm very much a believer that"},{"startTime":3004.175,"endTime":3008.605,"body":"whilst we have to define innovation,"},{"startTime":3008.645,"endTime":3011.895,"body":"I think you do take quite a broad"},{"startTime":3008.645,"endTime":3011.895,"body":"definition of it that the journey"},{"startTime":3011.895,"endTime":3014.955,"body":"for an innovator is to get back into"},{"startTime":3011.895,"endTime":3014.955,"body":"the court in some way, shape or form."},{"startTime":3014.955,"endTime":3018.8,"body":"And so you have to, whether it's,"},{"startTime":3014.955,"endTime":3018.8,"body":"you know, the, the, the, the folk"},{"startTime":3018.8,"endTime":3023.035,"body":"that you referenced, um, that"},{"startTime":3018.8,"endTime":3023.035,"body":"you need to bring in or whatever."},{"startTime":3023.035,"endTime":3027.12,"body":"Like for me, you can't turn up with,"},{"startTime":3023.035,"endTime":3027.12,"body":"yeah, A British plug in a European plug"},{"startTime":3027.12,"endTime":3028.65,"body":"socket and expect them to work either."},{"startTime":3028.65,"endTime":3028.86,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3028.86,"endTime":3031.69,"body":"And that's not necessarily"},{"startTime":3028.86,"endTime":3031.69,"body":"an innovation challenge."},{"startTime":3031.69,"endTime":3035.43,"body":"That's the final bit that you turn"},{"startTime":3031.69,"endTime":3035.43,"body":"up with from an organizational"},{"startTime":3035.43,"endTime":3038.6,"body":"perspective and they just don't"},{"startTime":3035.43,"endTime":3038.6,"body":"fit and suddenly it's useless."},{"startTime":3038.75,"endTime":3039.02,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3039.11,"endTime":3042.31,"body":"I did that coming with all my"},{"startTime":3039.11,"endTime":3042.31,"body":"lights, apparently light fittings,"},{"startTime":3042.49,"endTime":3045.854,"body":"not the plug sockets, the things"},{"startTime":3042.49,"endTime":3045.854,"body":"in the ceilings are different here."},{"startTime":3046.135,"endTime":3050.175,"body":"And so it perplexed me for quite a long"},{"startTime":3046.135,"endTime":3050.175,"body":"time, actually, which, which frustrated me"},{"startTime":3050.175,"endTime":3052.035,"body":"as to the hell do I do with these things?"},{"startTime":3052.045,"endTime":3053.495,"body":"They plug them in and the ceilings here."},{"startTime":3053.515,"endTime":3056.595,"body":"I'm like, but it's a different thing,"},{"startTime":3053.515,"endTime":3056.595,"body":"but it wasn't an innovation challenge"},{"startTime":3056.595,"endTime":3060.285,"body":"per se, but it was a different culture"},{"startTime":3056.595,"endTime":3060.285,"body":"back to that point of like, this is"},{"startTime":3060.285,"endTime":3061.985,"body":"where culture becomes a thing, right?"},{"startTime":3062.495,"endTime":3066.445,"body":"That, um, That got in the way of"},{"startTime":3062.495,"endTime":3066.445,"body":"me of me having light for a little"},{"startTime":3066.445,"endTime":3069.785,"body":"while, which was fine over the summer"},{"startTime":3066.445,"endTime":3069.785,"body":"and less fine as winter came here."},{"startTime":3070.735,"endTime":3072.345,"body":"But, but, but thank you."},{"startTime":3072.345,"endTime":3072.455,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3072.455,"endTime":3073.865,"body":"I've really enjoyed this conversation."},{"startTime":3073.865,"endTime":3075.915,"body":"As I said earlier, your"},{"startTime":3073.865,"endTime":3075.915,"body":"new book is out now."},{"startTime":3076.215,"endTime":3078.515,"body":"We, as this goes out,"},{"startTime":3076.215,"endTime":3078.515,"body":"we'll share a link to it."},{"startTime":3078.535,"endTime":3082.115,"body":"We have, have some signed copies"},{"startTime":3078.535,"endTime":3082.115,"body":"that we're working on together that"},{"startTime":3082.115,"endTime":3085.285,"body":"we, um, we'll share with, with,"},{"startTime":3082.115,"endTime":3085.285,"body":"with listeners, how they might be"},{"startTime":3085.285,"endTime":3086.835,"body":"able to access one or two of those."},{"startTime":3087.535,"endTime":3088.565,"body":"And thank you."},{"startTime":3088.805,"endTime":3091.684,"body":"Thank you for, for being sharing."},{"startTime":3092.025,"endTime":3095.005,"body":"Um, for everyone else listening,"},{"startTime":3092.025,"endTime":3095.005,"body":"as always, thank you for listening"},{"startTime":3095.025,"endTime":3096.365,"body":"to the total innovation podcast."},{"startTime":3096.855,"endTime":3099.395,"body":"If you're a regular subscriber,"},{"startTime":3096.855,"endTime":3099.395,"body":"thank you very much."},{"startTime":3099.415,"endTime":3102.115,"body":"We have many now around the world"},{"startTime":3099.415,"endTime":3102.115,"body":"and we just hit a big milestone"},{"startTime":3102.115,"endTime":3106.105,"body":"for downloads of the show as our"},{"startTime":3102.115,"endTime":3106.105,"body":"global readership continues to grow."},{"startTime":3106.835,"endTime":3107.565,"body":"Thanks to great."},{"startTime":3108.1,"endTime":3109.9,"body":"Presentations and talks like this as well."},{"startTime":3110.09,"endTime":3111.03,"body":"So thank you very much."},{"startTime":3111.03,"endTime":3113.84,"body":"If you haven't checked out our"},{"startTime":3111.03,"endTime":3113.84,"body":"prior episodes, please do so."},{"startTime":3113.84,"endTime":3117.06,"body":"There's great discussions from the"},{"startTime":3113.84,"endTime":3117.06,"body":"likes of NASA to Exxon from unicorn"},{"startTime":3117.08,"endTime":3119.17,"body":"building to AI ethics and much more."},{"startTime":3119.71,"endTime":3122.86,"body":"So check out the back catalog"},{"startTime":3119.71,"endTime":3122.86,"body":"and keep an eye out for the next"},{"startTime":3122.86,"endTime":3124.53,"body":"exciting episode coming soon."},{"startTime":3124.7,"endTime":3126.19,"body":"For today, thank you very much."}]}