{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":0.21,"endTime":2.91,"body":"Welcome to the Total"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":0.21,"endTime":2.91,"body":"Innovation Podcast, where we explore"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2.91,"endTime":7.32,"body":"the people, principles and practices"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2.91,"endTime":7.32,"body":"driving real world innovation today."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":7.95,"endTime":11.67,"body":"I'm your host, as always, Simon"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":7.95,"endTime":11.67,"body":"Hill, and in today's episode, we're"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":11.67,"endTime":15.3,"body":"diving into a topic that sparks"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":11.67,"endTime":15.3,"body":"debate amongst many innovators and"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":15.3,"endTime":17.1,"body":"innovation teams around the world."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":17.85,"endTime":22.08,"body":"Question is, can, or maybe should"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":17.85,"endTime":22.08,"body":"innovation be systematized?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":22.56,"endTime":24.15,"body":"Should it be a profession?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":25.05,"endTime":28.56,"body":"If it is a profession, are we in"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":25.05,"endTime":28.56,"body":"danger of turning something innately"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":28.56,"endTime":32.97,"body":"creative and exploratory into a"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":28.56,"endTime":32.97,"body":"box ticking exercise, or even worse"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":33.84,"endTime":35.91,"body":"to head this big, bold question?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":35.91,"endTime":40.83,"body":"I'm joined today by Victoria Mil, the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":35.91,"endTime":40.83,"body":"UK head of delegation for ISO Innovation"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":40.83,"endTime":46.53,"body":"Standards, a driving force behind ISO"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":40.83,"endTime":46.53,"body":"56,001 and the founder of Verity Merit."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":47.16,"endTime":50.13,"body":"Victoria's an accomplished"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":47.16,"endTime":50.13,"body":"innovation management consultant,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":50.13,"endTime":51.54,"body":"trainer, and thought leader."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":51.93,"endTime":54.99,"body":"She's helped shaped innovation"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":51.93,"endTime":54.99,"body":"ecosystems and strategies across"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":54.99,"endTime":59.76,"body":"industries as diverse as FinTech to"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":54.99,"endTime":59.76,"body":"mining led government-backed research,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":59.76,"endTime":63.9,"body":"and worked with top institutions"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":59.76,"endTime":63.9,"body":"like Imperial College and BSI,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":63.9,"endTime":67.98,"body":"the British Standards Institutes"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":63.9,"endTime":67.98,"body":"amongst many different projects."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":68.43,"endTime":72.51,"body":"She's working currently alongside me and"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":68.43,"endTime":72.51,"body":"a number of others on an accreditation"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":72.51,"endTime":74.46,"body":"pathway for innovation professionals."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":74.61,"endTime":78.12,"body":"Think a Chartered Institute for Innovation"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":74.61,"endTime":78.12,"body":"Management or something similar."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":78.885,"endTime":82.875,"body":"If you care about making innovation"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":78.885,"endTime":82.875,"body":"more impactful, more intentional,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":83.625,"endTime":85.425,"body":"then this is the episode for you."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":85.965,"endTime":88.305,"body":"And with that, welcome"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":85.965,"endTime":88.305,"body":"to the podcast, Victoria."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":89.325,"endTime":90.255,"body":"Oh, thank you Simon."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":90.255,"endTime":91.785,"body":"It's so lovely to join you today."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":92.235,"endTime":93.495,"body":"Yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":92.235,"endTime":93.495,"body":"excited for this one."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":93.495,"endTime":98.295,"body":"As I said, I think this topic of"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":93.495,"endTime":98.295,"body":"systematizing innovation and, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":98.295,"endTime":99.945,"body":"know, is it a, is it a profession?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":99.945,"endTime":100.785,"body":"Is it a process?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":100.785,"endTime":101.805,"body":"Is it a pipe dream?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":102.045,"endTime":103.275,"body":"Um, hopefully not."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":103.635,"endTime":106.065,"body":"Is uh, is a good one to, to dig into."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":106.065,"endTime":107.295,"body":"And I know that you've spent."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":107.925,"endTime":111.615,"body":"Quite a bit of the last few years"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":107.925,"endTime":111.615,"body":"and maybe more than that, uh, working"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":111.615,"endTime":113.354,"body":"on this and, and agonizing about it."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":113.354,"endTime":115.725,"body":"So I'm excited to, to"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":113.354,"endTime":115.725,"body":"have this conversation."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":116.324,"endTime":119.744,"body":"Uh, maybe I give a quick introduction,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":116.324,"endTime":119.744,"body":"but why don't you just quickly just,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":119.744,"endTime":122.264,"body":"just set the scene for Soak and, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":119.744,"endTime":122.264,"body":"know, it's always nice to introduce"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":122.264,"endTime":124.005,"body":"yourself as well as to be introduced."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":125.369,"endTime":128.85,"body":"Well, um, I, uh,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":125.369,"endTime":128.85,"body":"got involved in, in standards"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":128.85,"endTime":132.84,"body":"writing actually through my, um,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":128.85,"endTime":132.84,"body":"industrial design background."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":133.2,"endTime":138.03,"body":"Um, and, uh, joined the, the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":133.2,"endTime":138.03,"body":"committee at BSI and then was asked"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":138.03,"endTime":143.07,"body":"to join, uh, the ISO committee that's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":138.03,"endTime":143.07,"body":"responsible for writing innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":143.07,"endTime":143.76,"body":"management system standards."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":145.05,"endTime":151.2,"body":"And that all began because"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":145.05,"endTime":151.2,"body":"there was a request from."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":151.845,"endTime":159.195,"body":"The European network to develop a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":151.845,"endTime":159.195,"body":"standard that helped to determine whether"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":159.285,"endTime":164.625,"body":"grants and public funding that was"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":159.285,"endTime":164.625,"body":"given to organizations to innovate was"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":164.924,"endTime":166.875,"body":"being given to the right organizations."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":167.415,"endTime":173.054,"body":"Um, and so that's really where this all"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":167.415,"endTime":173.054,"body":"started out to say how can we tell if an"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":173.054,"endTime":176.355,"body":"organization is going to be innovative?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":176.865,"endTime":181.905,"body":"As opposed to whether or not they had a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":176.865,"endTime":181.905,"body":"one hit wonder, a one, one great idea."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":182.204,"endTime":185.865,"body":"Um, so that that funding was being"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":182.204,"endTime":185.865,"body":"given to them, not for incremental"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":185.865,"endTime":189.285,"body":"growth, but for exponential growth,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":185.865,"endTime":189.285,"body":"because that's what you wanna"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":189.285,"endTime":193.935,"body":"see when you, you give grants to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":189.285,"endTime":193.935,"body":"organizations for innovation that they"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":193.935,"endTime":195.644,"body":"take that and they, they run with it."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":196.335,"endTime":199.845,"body":"It doesn't just help them to get"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":196.335,"endTime":199.845,"body":"over one hurdle, but it actually"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":199.995,"endTime":203.955,"body":"clears the way for them to be, to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":199.995,"endTime":203.955,"body":"grow and to improve on productivity."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":204.375,"endTime":206.565,"body":"So that's where this all, all started out."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":206.595,"endTime":213.135,"body":"But it did make us stop and ask the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":206.595,"endTime":213.135,"body":"question to say, well, can you do this?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":213.345,"endTime":217.455,"body":"Can you have a systems approach to."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":218.145,"endTime":220.424,"body":"Innovation should you even have this."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":220.424,"endTime":225.195,"body":"So it's taken about 15 years and a lot"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":220.424,"endTime":225.195,"body":"of international debate and conversation,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":225.525,"endTime":230.445,"body":"a whole host of experts really"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":225.525,"endTime":230.445,"body":"questioning ourselves and questioning"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":230.445,"endTime":232.245,"body":"whether this was the right thing to do."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":232.635,"endTime":233.025,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":233.295,"endTime":237.525,"body":"What it needed to encompass"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":233.295,"endTime":237.525,"body":"in order to be successful."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":237.735,"endTime":240.495,"body":"So that's a little bit of the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":237.735,"endTime":240.495,"body":"background that I've been involved in."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":240.705,"endTime":244.095,"body":"A lot of these debates and conversations"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":240.705,"endTime":244.095,"body":"about what innovation management"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":244.095,"endTime":247.845,"body":"is and what, uh, systems-based"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":244.095,"endTime":247.845,"body":"innovation management should be."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":248.205,"endTime":254.535,"body":"Um, and having a design background and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":248.205,"endTime":254.535,"body":"understanding the design methodology"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":254.535,"endTime":260.025,"body":"and the approaches, the human centered"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":254.535,"endTime":260.025,"body":"approaches, uh, design led thinking, how."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":261.36,"endTime":264.21,"body":"Can inform an innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":261.36,"endTime":264.21,"body":"management process."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":264.21,"endTime":269.55,"body":"And indeed there is a process within that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":264.21,"endTime":269.55,"body":"and making sure that that's built into how"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":269.55,"endTime":271.8,"body":"organizations see innovation management."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":272.19,"endTime":276.12,"body":"Um, and so that for me has been kind of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":272.19,"endTime":276.12,"body":"the, the, the key component that I always"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":276.24,"endTime":282.84,"body":"come back to, to make sure that we have a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":276.24,"endTime":282.84,"body":"really robust process within the system."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":283.53,"endTime":284.64,"body":"So let's talk about that."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":284.64,"endTime":284.85,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":284.85,"endTime":287.49,"body":"And I think it's, it's good"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":284.85,"endTime":287.49,"body":"to set that scene of the."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":287.88,"endTime":290.28,"body":"And I know I've sat in some of"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":287.88,"endTime":290.28,"body":"these meetings and others that"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":290.28,"endTime":293.7,"body":"we all know have sat in these"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":290.28,"endTime":293.7,"body":"meetings over a long period of time."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":293.7,"endTime":293.849,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":293.849,"endTime":297.63,"body":"And there's a lot of debate, um, a"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":293.849,"endTime":297.63,"body":"lot of discussion, a lot of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":297.63,"endTime":305.4,"body":"really, really challenging all of"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":297.63,"endTime":305.4,"body":"the preconceptions, misconceptions."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":305.49,"endTime":308.909,"body":"I think a lot of it, even thought that"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":305.49,"endTime":308.909,"body":"hadn't necessarily been, been thought yet."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":308.909,"endTime":309.15,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":309.15,"endTime":309.63,"body":"As well."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":309.93,"endTime":312.99,"body":"Um, or at least we hadn't sort of"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":309.93,"endTime":312.99,"body":"processed it in that way and suddenly"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":312.99,"endTime":314.37,"body":"had strong feelings about it."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":314.76,"endTime":315.78,"body":"Of, of, you know."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":316.365,"endTime":320.685,"body":"Something that, that is in, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":316.365,"endTime":320.685,"body":"think inherently a system needs"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":320.685,"endTime":322.485,"body":"systematizing is quite complicated."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":322.485,"endTime":323.475,"body":"So let's maybe start there."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":323.475,"endTime":328.305,"body":"Like what does systematizing"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":323.475,"endTime":328.305,"body":"innovation actually mean, um, to"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":328.305,"endTime":329.655,"body":"you when people talk about it?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":331.185,"endTime":335.445,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":331.185,"endTime":335.445,"body":"the first thing is to, and I've,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":335.445,"endTime":341.235,"body":"I've always described it as,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":335.445,"endTime":341.235,"body":"you know, innovation is, it's."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":342.555,"endTime":343.515,"body":"Within the standard."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":343.515,"endTime":346.365,"body":"We talk about it being the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":343.515,"endTime":346.365,"body":"innovations, the things that you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":346.365,"endTime":349.905,"body":"produce, but innovating is, is a verb."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":350.145,"endTime":355.905,"body":"It's, it's a doing thing and it shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":350.145,"endTime":355.905,"body":"be something that individual that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":355.905,"endTime":357.765,"body":"you can point to in an organization."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":357.765,"endTime":364.425,"body":"And, you know, uh, if we look back about,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":357.765,"endTime":364.425,"body":"uh, 10, 20 years ago, um, if you asked"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":364.515,"endTime":370.005,"body":"any CEO about innovation, he'd point to,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":364.515,"endTime":370.005,"body":"you know, that we have an innovation lab."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":370.425,"endTime":371.625,"body":"That's where it happens."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":371.625,"endTime":374.235,"body":"It happens in this room with,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":371.625,"endTime":374.235,"body":"you know, the, the, the."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":374.985,"endTime":379.515,"body":"Foosball table and the fake grass and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":374.985,"endTime":379.515,"body":"the beanbags, like that's innovation."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":379.695,"endTime":382.785,"body":"If you see those things,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":379.695,"endTime":382.785,"body":"those, um, artifacts, that's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":382.785,"endTime":384.135,"body":"where innovation takes place."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":384.525,"endTime":387.645,"body":"Um, and that's not what it's about."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":388.035,"endTime":391.935,"body":"So this is quite a step change from some"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":388.035,"endTime":391.935,"body":"of the leading thinking around the two"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":391.935,"endTime":396.075,"body":"thousands that was, was coming out of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":391.935,"endTime":396.075,"body":"American, American universities saying"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":396.075,"endTime":400.845,"body":"that, oh no, innovation should kind of sit"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":396.075,"endTime":400.845,"body":"alongside the engine of the organization."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":401.545,"endTime":403.585,"body":"This is, this is quite"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":401.545,"endTime":403.585,"body":"a step change from that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":403.615,"endTime":405.985,"body":"We're saying innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":403.615,"endTime":405.985,"body":"should be systemic."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":406.555,"endTime":410.305,"body":"So when we say systematizing,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":406.555,"endTime":410.305,"body":"the first part of understanding"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":410.305,"endTime":411.745,"body":"that is that it is systemic."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":412.345,"endTime":416.275,"body":"So just like, you know, the famous"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":412.345,"endTime":416.275,"body":"story in nasa, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":416.275,"endTime":421.105,"body":"ask, um, the, the janitor who's who"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":416.275,"endTime":421.105,"body":"sweeping the floor, what he does,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":421.615,"endTime":422.905,"body":"he helps put people on the moon."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":425.025,"endTime":429.735,"body":"It's about a systemic approach to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":425.025,"endTime":429.735,"body":"innovation where everybody within the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":429.735,"endTime":434.925,"body":"organization understands their role and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":429.735,"endTime":434.925,"body":"how they can contribute to innovating."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":435.555,"endTime":440.115,"body":"It doesn't sit separately, um, in,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":435.555,"endTime":440.115,"body":"you know, some hallowed space down"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":440.115,"endTime":445.605,"body":"the hall where people very rarely get"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":440.115,"endTime":445.605,"body":"to experience what it is and actually"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":445.605,"endTime":450.465,"body":"participate and take part in creating"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":445.605,"endTime":450.465,"body":"innovation for the organization."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":451.635,"endTime":453.495,"body":"So, so that's the first aspect."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":453.885,"endTime":457.395,"body":"Um, and then the second aspect,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":453.885,"endTime":457.395,"body":"so systemic is the first,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":457.635,"endTime":459.885,"body":"systematic is the second."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":460.515,"endTime":467.445,"body":"And this is about having clear processes"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":460.515,"endTime":467.445,"body":"and being able to measure and assess"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":467.445,"endTime":472.875,"body":"your processes and not simply allowing"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":467.445,"endTime":472.875,"body":"them to happen ad hoc and individually."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":473.145,"endTime":473.955,"body":"Um, with."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":474.585,"endTime":478.035,"body":"Criteria that aren't"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":474.585,"endTime":478.035,"body":"necessarily even explicit."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":478.515,"endTime":482.265,"body":"Often we find that they're just simply"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":478.515,"endTime":482.265,"body":"implicit criteria that haven't actually"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":482.265,"endTime":486.675,"body":"been articulated and aligned to the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":482.265,"endTime":486.675,"body":"strategic direction of the organization."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":487.065,"endTime":491.475,"body":"So when it comes to systematizing"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":487.065,"endTime":491.475,"body":"innovation and innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":491.475,"endTime":498.405,"body":"management, it's about systemic"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":491.475,"endTime":498.405,"body":"and systematic within this space."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":500.4,"endTime":502.905,"body":"I think that, and I like,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":500.4,"endTime":502.905,"body":"I like the language framing here."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":502.905,"endTime":506.355,"body":"And um, I don't know if you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":502.905,"endTime":506.355,"body":"but in an earlier, earlier podcast we"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":506.355,"endTime":509.535,"body":"had Steve Rader on from NASA who told"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":506.355,"endTime":509.535,"body":"a very similar story, but actually"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":509.535,"endTime":510.795,"body":"brought it all the way through."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":511.275,"endTime":515.715,"body":"Um, the organization, even to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":511.275,"endTime":515.715,"body":"folk who you might think about as, as"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":515.745,"endTime":519.585,"body":"you know, more obviously contributing"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":515.745,"endTime":519.585,"body":"to putting people on the moon or"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":519.585,"endTime":523.125,"body":"whatever, the, the rocket scientists"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":519.585,"endTime":523.125,"body":"and others, and getting them into the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":523.125,"endTime":526.395,"body":"mind space of their job was to bring"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":523.125,"endTime":526.395,"body":"people back safely as well, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":526.395,"endTime":530.445,"body":"And so it isn't about you being the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":526.395,"endTime":530.445,"body":"subject matter expert and solving all the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":530.445,"endTime":532.425,"body":"world's hallowed problems of doing that."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":532.425,"endTime":535.725,"body":"It's about using the talents of the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":532.425,"endTime":535.725,"body":"world, having a system, having an"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":535.725,"endTime":539.175,"body":"open approach, an open mindset, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":535.725,"endTime":539.175,"body":"using your strengths and skills."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":539.325,"endTime":543.495,"body":"To turn over every rock and follow"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":539.325,"endTime":543.495,"body":"the process to the, to, to, to the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":543.855,"endTime":547.515,"body":"most expansive form that it can"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":543.855,"endTime":547.515,"body":"be, to know that you did everything"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":547.515,"endTime":550.095,"body":"to bring those astronauts back"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":547.515,"endTime":550.095,"body":"safely from a mission Right."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":550.095,"endTime":550.485,"body":"As well."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":550.485,"endTime":554.175,"body":"And so, I, I agree with you, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":550.485,"endTime":554.175,"body":"it, it, but it, it, it sort of folds"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":554.175,"endTime":557.925,"body":"from, you know, that sort of anecdotal"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":554.175,"endTime":557.925,"body":"janitor level all the way through"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":557.925,"endTime":559.605,"body":"to identity and everything else."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":560.085,"endTime":563.175,"body":"It feels like, and maybe it's 'cause you"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":560.085,"endTime":563.175,"body":"and I are so in it, I don't know if the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":563.175,"endTime":568.305,"body":"wider world feels like this, but this"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":563.175,"endTime":568.305,"body":"topic of systematizing innovation is."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":568.77,"endTime":571.47,"body":"It's finally starting"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":568.77,"endTime":571.47,"body":"to gather some traction."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":571.47,"endTime":574.77,"body":"Is there a reason for that, that you,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":571.47,"endTime":574.77,"body":"do you agree with me first of all?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":574.77,"endTime":578.13,"body":"I mean, probably yes, given the work"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":574.77,"endTime":578.13,"body":"that you're doing, but outside of maybe"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":578.13,"endTime":581.13,"body":"the bubble that, that you and I live"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":578.13,"endTime":581.13,"body":"in, do you feel like that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":581.13,"endTime":583.65,"body":"true in the, the wider innovation world?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":583.65,"endTime":585.78,"body":"And if so, why might that be the case?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":588.21,"endTime":591.81,"body":"Think part of,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":588.21,"endTime":591.81,"body":"um, part of a change that we're"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":591.81,"endTime":596.85,"body":"seeing in, in society, um, and."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":597.675,"endTime":602.834,"body":"You know, you, you spoke there about"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":597.675,"endTime":602.834,"body":"subject matter experts, and we've"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":603.224,"endTime":607.724,"body":"allowed in the past these type of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":603.224,"endTime":607.724,"body":"ivory towers of, you know, the kind of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":607.724,"endTime":614.084,"body":"master creator, the, the, the, uh, the,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":607.724,"endTime":614.084,"body":"it's actually the great man theory."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":614.324,"endTime":620.984,"body":"This, this singular, uh, you know,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":614.324,"endTime":620.984,"body":"creative, uh, individual who can."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":621.945,"endTime":627.075,"body":"Completely come up with wonderful new"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":621.945,"endTime":627.075,"body":"ideas that are fully formed as, as great"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":627.075,"endTime":631.935,"body":"concepts and deploy them as solutions,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":627.075,"endTime":631.935,"body":"you know, without, without even trying."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":632.325,"endTime":632.715,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":635.76,"endTime":638.85,"body":"Realized and we've learned, and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":635.76,"endTime":638.85,"body":"the, and in fact, the empirical"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":638.85,"endTime":641.34,"body":"evidence shows that's not, not true."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":641.34,"endTime":646.29,"body":"It's been, uh, you know, uh, disproven"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":641.34,"endTime":646.29,"body":"that actually it's about the, the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":646.29,"endTime":648.06,"body":"creativity and the best ideas."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":648.06,"endTime":652.02,"body":"The best results come from"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":648.06,"endTime":652.02,"body":"diverse groups, happy groups."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":652.204,"endTime":656.795,"body":"So mood is one of the most important"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":652.204,"endTime":656.795,"body":"indicators of, of your likely"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":656.795,"endTime":658.265,"body":"success, of your innovation."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":658.444,"endTime":661.295,"body":"So happy groups of diverse teams."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":661.685,"endTime":665.285,"body":"Um, and that means that you can't"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":661.685,"endTime":665.285,"body":"have these, these ivory towers,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":665.285,"endTime":667.444,"body":"these, these, these, um, silos."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":667.805,"endTime":670.235,"body":"Um, those don't, those don't work well."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":670.535,"endTime":675.785,"body":"And I think social media is having"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":670.535,"endTime":675.785,"body":"a big role to play and, and the,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":676.055,"endTime":680.75,"body":"the kind of generational views that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":676.055,"endTime":680.75,"body":"we seeing, um, whether good or bad."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":683.52,"endTime":690.42,"body":"Questions need to be asked about"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":683.52,"endTime":690.42,"body":"expertise because often the expertise"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":690.72,"endTime":694.5,"body":"doesn't necessarily engage with."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":695.04,"endTime":699.12,"body":"What really is happening within,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":695.04,"endTime":699.12,"body":"within an environment, within a space."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":699.51,"endTime":705.0,"body":"Um, and so a lot of assumptions are made,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":699.51,"endTime":705.0,"body":"um, and that might be on a, a great amount"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":705.0,"endTime":710.01,"body":"of knowledge, but it's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":705.0,"endTime":710.01,"body":"the relevant and current knowledge."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":710.339,"endTime":715.229,"body":"And so what's, what's happening is"},{"speaker":"Victoria 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Milne","startTime":729.735,"endTime":733.875,"body":"to hold shares within the organization,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":733.875,"endTime":737.714,"body":"but it's, but it's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":733.875,"endTime":737.714,"body":"to the benefit of all within society."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":737.714,"endTime":741.405,"body":"So, so there's a whole lot of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":737.714,"endTime":741.405,"body":"questioning that's, that's going on."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":741.495,"endTime":745.574,"body":"You know, we can see it in every"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":741.495,"endTime":745.574,"body":"realm of our lives, but when it comes"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":745.574,"endTime":748.785,"body":"to innovating for organizations."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":749.895,"endTime":753.704,"body":"We're starting to say, how can"},{"speaker":"Victoria 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successful."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":775.785,"endTime":781.545,"body":"Innovations, uh, product growth, market"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":775.785,"endTime":781.545,"body":"growth, uh, and and improved productivity"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":781.545,"endTime":783.314,"body":"and efficiency within the organization."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":784.59,"endTime":788.34,"body":"And so how do we balance"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":784.59,"endTime":788.34,"body":"that with, I'm gonna throw a big, a big"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":788.34,"endTime":792.0,"body":"question at you now around this, 'cause"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":788.34,"endTime":792.0,"body":"you've got that sort of, that piece of,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":792.569,"endTime":796.98,"body":"I guess the, the innovator being, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":792.569,"endTime":796.98,"body":"know, the Steve Jobs figure, the genius,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":796.98,"endTime":801.12,"body":"which we all know wasn't, was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":796.98,"endTime":801.12,"body":"wasn't really a, a, a truism and certainly"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":801.12,"endTime":804.84,"body":"doesn't extrapolate out into, at scale"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":801.12,"endTime":804.84,"body":"for any, any, in any meaningful way."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":804.84,"endTime":807.24,"body":"Even if there are ad"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":804.84,"endTime":807.24,"body":"hoc geniuses out there."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":807.92,"endTime":811.699,"body":"As, should this be a profession then,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":807.92,"endTime":811.699,"body":"or does that create the ivory tower?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":811.819,"endTime":812.15,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Simon 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have."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":832.484,"endTime":836.265,"body":"And so, so there's part of the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":832.484,"endTime":836.265,"body":"issue is that what's been happening"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":836.265,"endTime":842.204,"body":"up until now is we've tended to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":836.265,"endTime":842.204,"body":"have organizations internally"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":842.685,"endTime":844.305,"body":"figure things out for themselves."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":844.545,"endTime":845.415,"body":"So whether it's."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":845.925,"endTime":851.085,"body":"Apple's methodology or IBM's methodology,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":845.925,"endTime":851.085,"body":"or Unilever or Procter and Gamble's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":851.085,"endTime":856.425,"body":"methodology, each of these organizations"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":851.085,"endTime":856.425,"body":"have internally figured it out themselves,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":856.425,"endTime":858.255,"body":"how they're gonna manage their innovation."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":858.585,"endTime":862.665,"body":"And, and I really like using the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":858.585,"endTime":862.665,"body":"fast moving consumer goods, um,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":862.725,"endTime":868.185,"body":"you know, industry as an example of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":862.725,"endTime":868.185,"body":"innovators because of the rate of."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":868.875,"endTime":872.714,"body":"What they push out, new variants,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":868.875,"endTime":872.714,"body":"new products, uh, probably"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":872.714,"endTime":874.935,"body":"faster than any other category."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":875.324,"endTime":875.775,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":879.0,"endTime":882.06,"body":"Internally, they've, it's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":879.0,"endTime":882.06,"body":"it's organizational theory."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":882.06,"endTime":886.23,"body":"The organization has been controlling"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":882.06,"endTime":886.23,"body":"that and generally they've had a bit"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":886.23,"endTime":888.51,"body":"of a, what we call constructivism."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":888.78,"endTime":891.42,"body":"Um, so an approach of learning"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":888.78,"endTime":891.42,"body":"where they've kind of figured"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":891.42,"endTime":892.77,"body":"it out, what works for them."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":893.07,"endTime":897.42,"body":"And there's lovely narrative about"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":893.07,"endTime":897.42,"body":"how they've learned this process."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":897.42,"endTime":902.61,"body":"And they have their own kind of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":897.42,"endTime":902.61,"body":"naming of each of the steps, and it's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":902.61,"endTime":905.13,"body":"their specifically owned process."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":905.73,"endTime":906.39,"body":"Um, this."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":907.44,"endTime":912.09,"body":"But what it does is it means that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":907.44,"endTime":912.09,"body":"it then becomes trapped within"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":912.09,"endTime":919.32,"body":"that story and it becomes quite"},{"speaker":"Victoria 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that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":938.115,"endTime":941.564,"body":"So it becomes, you know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":938.115,"endTime":941.564,"body":"it's strength becomes its greatest"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":941.564,"endTime":942.734,"body":"weakness because it cannot."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":942.995,"endTime":946.444,"body":"Connect with anything else, and it"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":942.995,"endTime":946.444,"body":"can sometimes be quite difficult to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":946.444,"endTime":949.505,"body":"understand if you're external and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":946.444,"endTime":949.505,"body":"you don't understand the language."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":949.775,"endTime":952.385,"body":"It sounds like they're speaking in a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":949.775,"endTime":952.385,"body":"foreign language because there's so"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":952.385,"endTime":957.935,"body":"much jargon and terminology that's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":952.385,"endTime":957.935,"body":"only known to them, so, so the issue"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":957.935,"endTime":963.185,"body":"is how can you then balance that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":957.935,"endTime":963.185,"body":"with more of a, kind of a bit more"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":963.185,"endTime":964.985,"body":"structure that's more universal?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":965.61,"endTime":968.73,"body":"And it's getting that kind of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":965.61,"endTime":968.73,"body":"institutionalism, which is kind of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":968.73,"endTime":974.61,"body":"that outside in view, that macro view"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":968.73,"endTime":974.61,"body":"to say, okay, can we have a, can we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":974.61,"endTime":977.189,"body":"even just agree what innovation means?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":978.15,"endTime":978.569,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":978.569,"endTime":983.699,"body":"Like one definition, can we all use the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":978.569,"endTime":983.699,"body":"same definition for, for innovation?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":984.03,"endTime":984.569,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":985.41,"endTime":991.89,"body":"We wanna balance that institutionalism"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":985.41,"endTime":991.89,"body":"with the organization's own development"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":992.43,"endTime":996.45,"body":"so that we ha there's the ability"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":992.43,"endTime":996.45,"body":"for it to move from within the"},{"speaker":"Victoria 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Milne","startTime":1013.689,"endTime":1018.43,"body":"bit of a balance that you need to have"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1018.43,"endTime":1022.15,"body":"with a bit of what's called behaviorism."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1022.42,"endTime":1026.619,"body":"Behaviorism, which is kind of,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1022.42,"endTime":1026.619,"body":"Pavlov's dog is the best example."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1026.92,"endTime":1032.109,"body":"Um, where, where you make sure that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1026.92,"endTime":1032.109,"body":"there is also some structure involved."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1032.109,"endTime":1035.05,"body":"Because if we allow it to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1032.109,"endTime":1035.05,"body":"simply be this kind of."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1035.81,"endTime":1040.79,"body":"This is our story of how we create"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1035.81,"endTime":1040.79,"body":"things and it's very qualitative and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1040.79,"endTime":1046.579,"body":"there's not enough metric and measurement"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1040.79,"endTime":1046.579,"body":"internally to say, okay, well is our"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1046.609,"endTime":1051.199,"body":"innovation process doing better or worse"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1046.609,"endTime":1051.199,"body":"this year than it did the previous year?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1051.83,"endTime":1054.83,"body":"You know, are we going to produce"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1051.83,"endTime":1054.83,"body":"better quality innovations?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1055.88,"endTime":1061.46,"body":"Or are we actually not improving"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1055.88,"endTime":1061.46,"body":"on the quality year, on year of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1061.46,"endTime":1065.93,"body":"what we're producing through our,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1061.46,"endTime":1065.93,"body":"through our process, so not actually"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1065.93,"endTime":1072.02,"body":"having kind of mechanisms to manage"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1065.93,"endTime":1072.02,"body":"and assess and quantify then."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1072.409,"endTime":1076.37,"body":"Means that it, it's difficult to, to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1072.409,"endTime":1076.37,"body":"improve what I can measure, I can,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1076.55,"endTime":1078.26,"body":"you know, I can then improve on."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1078.62,"endTime":1081.29,"body":"So it's these four factors."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1081.29,"endTime":1083.99,"body":"I mean, I know it sounds quite"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1081.29,"endTime":1083.99,"body":"complicated, but it there, these,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1084.05,"endTime":1085.79,"body":"these four factors involved."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1086.719,"endTime":1092.6,"body":"Now, why all of this is so relevant"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1086.719,"endTime":1092.6,"body":"is because if we, if we want to see"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1093.199,"endTime":1096.979,"body":"this practice become formalized."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1097.52,"endTime":1101.93,"body":"Something where I can take somebody's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1097.52,"endTime":1101.93,"body":"experience from one organization"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1102.2,"endTime":1106.85,"body":"and understand and situated within"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1102.2,"endTime":1106.85,"body":"another organization, it means that we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1106.85,"endTime":1110.12,"body":"create, we create a much better flow."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1110.57,"endTime":1117.29,"body":"Of ideas and innovation, resource and cap"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1110.57,"endTime":1117.29,"body":"capability and capacity, uh, both within"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1117.29,"endTime":1119.63,"body":"organizations but within markets as well."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1120.02,"endTime":1123.11,"body":"And that's where we're going"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1120.02,"endTime":1123.11,"body":"to start to see the growth and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1123.11,"endTime":1126.8,"body":"productivity because innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1123.11,"endTime":1126.8,"body":"affects growth and productivity."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1127.19,"endTime":1132.59,"body":"So why do we need to professionalize"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1127.19,"endTime":1132.59,"body":"innovation management so that we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1132.59,"endTime":1136.07,"body":"can best balance the internal."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1136.94,"endTime":1144.68,"body":"Culture, the organization and the external"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1136.94,"endTime":1144.68,"body":"structures of kind of formalizing a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1144.68,"endTime":1149.93,"body":"practice, as well as making sure that you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1144.68,"endTime":1149.93,"body":"have the right measurement and assessment."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1149.93,"endTime":1154.82,"body":"Something that is both quantitative as"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1149.93,"endTime":1154.82,"body":"well as qualitative in the way that it"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1154.82,"endTime":1162.02,"body":"is learned and developed and owned by the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1154.82,"endTime":1162.02,"body":"individuals who are creating innovations"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1162.02,"endTime":1165.02,"body":"in the organization and to get that right."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1165.395,"endTime":1171.545,"body":"You do need to have some kind of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1165.395,"endTime":1171.545,"body":"formalized practice and understand,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1171.815,"endTime":1175.205,"body":"just as I've shared with you now,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1171.815,"endTime":1175.205,"body":"understand these elements and be able"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1175.205,"endTime":1179.945,"body":"to work with these elements with a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1175.205,"endTime":1179.945,"body":"perspective to say, okay, as a systems"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1179.945,"endTime":1181.925,"body":"architect, how do I get this right?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1182.435,"endTime":1187.115,"body":"And that's a really important job,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1182.435,"endTime":1187.115,"body":"and that job needs to be certified."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1187.115,"endTime":1190.835,"body":"That job needs to be done by"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1187.115,"endTime":1190.835,"body":"somebody who has the right skills"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1190.835,"endTime":1192.845,"body":"and competencies and the right."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1193.49,"endTime":1197.42,"body":"Capabilities learning knowledge"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1193.49,"endTime":1197.42,"body":"to be able to do that effectively"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1197.42,"endTime":1203.06,"body":"for both an organization as well"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1197.42,"endTime":1203.06,"body":"as an ecosystem through to a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1203.06,"endTime":1205.07,"body":"national level, regional level."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1205.07,"endTime":1206.3,"body":"And, and at a global level,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1207.71,"endTime":1209.36,"body":"which is,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1207.71,"endTime":1209.36,"body":"which is a big ambition."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1209.99,"endTime":1214.4,"body":"We're, we're kind of at the early"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1209.99,"endTime":1214.4,"body":"stages, which as I started exploring"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1214.4,"endTime":1217.67,"body":"this with, with you and the teams"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1214.4,"endTime":1217.67,"body":"around different parts of the world that"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1217.67,"endTime":1219.59,"body":"are, that are doing it, you know, the."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1220.385,"endTime":1222.635,"body":"Not many people get involved"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1220.385,"endTime":1222.635,"body":"in building a profession."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1222.635,"endTime":1224.254,"body":"So maybe we can just"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1222.635,"endTime":1224.254,"body":"talk about that a little."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1224.254,"endTime":1224.465,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1224.465,"endTime":1228.754,"body":"What does it, what does it mean to make"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1224.465,"endTime":1228.754,"body":"innovation a recognized profession?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1228.754,"endTime":1231.935,"body":"And what are, you know, where are we on"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1228.754,"endTime":1231.935,"body":"that journey and what, you know, is this,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1231.935,"endTime":1235.804,"body":"is there an an, an analogous profession"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1231.935,"endTime":1235.804,"body":"we can think of that, that maybe can bring"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1235.804,"endTime":1240.125,"body":"that to life a little bit that's been,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1235.804,"endTime":1240.125,"body":"been formed that in a, in a timeframe"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1240.125,"endTime":1243.304,"body":"that, you know, people can go, oh, I"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1240.125,"endTime":1243.304,"body":"can see how, how, how, that's 'cause"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1243.304,"endTime":1244.774,"body":"it's, it's a sort of sentence, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1244.774,"endTime":1246.125,"body":"We're gonna professionalize innovation."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1246.125,"endTime":1247.294,"body":"What does, what does it mean?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1248.87,"endTime":1252.26,"body":"So, well, good"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1248.87,"endTime":1252.26,"body":"examples are project management,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1252.35,"endTime":1254.54,"body":"um, as well as quality management."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1255.02,"endTime":1261.889,"body":"And we saw with both of those as"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1255.02,"endTime":1261.889,"body":"they became recognized professions"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1262.159,"endTime":1264.439,"body":"that they began with, with standards."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1264.709,"endTime":1268.25,"body":"So when we look at this, we, we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1264.709,"endTime":1268.25,"body":"expect to see some building blocks."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1268.565,"endTime":1273.815,"body":"And the first kind of building block is,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1268.565,"endTime":1273.815,"body":"is a standard, uh, a management system"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1273.815,"endTime":1281.855,"body":"standard that talks about what it is that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1273.815,"endTime":1281.855,"body":"that practice does within an organization."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1282.335,"endTime":1285.845,"body":"And it helps us to also get some"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1282.335,"endTime":1285.845,"body":"of those key definitions down."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1286.115,"endTime":1290.525,"body":"I think having that common"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1286.115,"endTime":1290.525,"body":"language is, is, is the key."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1291.095,"endTime":1291.635,"body":"Uh, so."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1292.25,"endTime":1295.4,"body":"A lot of what standards writing"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1292.25,"endTime":1295.4,"body":"is, is actually saying, okay,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1295.4,"endTime":1297.23,"body":"what do we mean by innovation?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1297.56,"endTime":1302.84,"body":"And innovation is new and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1297.56,"endTime":1302.84,"body":"improved generation of value."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1303.5,"endTime":1305.27,"body":"So it's realizing value."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1305.63,"endTime":1311.03,"body":"So if it hasn't actually realized"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1305.63,"endTime":1311.03,"body":"any value, it's still research."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1311.06,"endTime":1316.31,"body":"It's still experimentation, it's still,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1311.06,"endTime":1316.31,"body":"you know, it's not yet innovation."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1316.55,"endTime":1316.97,"body":"No, just."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1317.3,"endTime":1321.65,"body":"So having that shared language, having"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1317.3,"endTime":1321.65,"body":"the standard, and then from there, what"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1321.65,"endTime":1327.59,"body":"you, what we see, um, and what you would"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1321.65,"endTime":1327.59,"body":"like to ex expect to see is the coming"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1327.59,"endTime":1333.86,"body":"together of, uh, those practitioners"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1327.59,"endTime":1333.86,"body":"who are leading this conversation,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1333.86,"endTime":1341.9,"body":"who are saying, let's start to, to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1333.86,"endTime":1341.9,"body":"codify what, what good looks like."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1342.35,"endTime":1345.71,"body":"You know, with, with the standard"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1342.35,"endTime":1345.71,"body":"tells us what we're in the business of."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1346.715,"endTime":1348.92,"body":"Uh, and now we're saying"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1346.715,"endTime":1348.92,"body":"what does good look like?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1350.33,"endTime":1354.68,"body":"So somebody going in, an individual"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1350.33,"endTime":1354.68,"body":"going in and, uh, you know, working"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1354.83,"endTime":1356.84,"body":"and delivering on the, the standards."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1356.84,"endTime":1359.96,"body":"Requirements, you know,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1356.84,"endTime":1359.96,"body":"what, what should they know?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1360.11,"endTime":1362.63,"body":"So what is the body of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1360.11,"endTime":1362.63,"body":"knowledge that they should have?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1363.08,"endTime":1366.47,"body":"You know, what should they understand"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1363.08,"endTime":1366.47,"body":"about, you know, we've used terms like"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1366.47,"endTime":1369.68,"body":"open innovation, um, and, uh, ecosystems."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1369.98,"endTime":1373.07,"body":"You know, what should they,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1369.98,"endTime":1373.07,"body":"what should they understand?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1373.28,"endTime":1375.35,"body":"What should they"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1373.28,"endTime":1375.35,"body":"understand about systemic?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1375.95,"endTime":1376.67,"body":"Systematic."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1377.18,"endTime":1378.86,"body":"You know, in, in this process."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1379.19,"endTime":1382.55,"body":"So the body of knowledge and coming"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1379.19,"endTime":1382.55,"body":"together and determining what that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1382.55,"endTime":1387.38,"body":"is, having a very clear idea of, you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1382.55,"endTime":1387.38,"body":"know, what those, the job levels are."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1387.65,"endTime":1392.63,"body":"So what is an, an assistant, you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1387.65,"endTime":1392.63,"body":"know, uh, innovation executive."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1392.87,"endTime":1394.79,"body":"What's an innovation manager's role?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1395.545,"endTime":1400.015,"body":"Uh, when we start to talk about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1395.545,"endTime":1400.015,"body":"a VP of innovation, what do we expect?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1400.225,"endTime":1404.305,"body":"You know, and all the way up as"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1400.225,"endTime":1404.305,"body":"we go, a Chief Innovation officer,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1404.305,"endTime":1407.605,"body":"what, what would we expect, uh,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1404.305,"endTime":1407.605,"body":"their portfolio to look like?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1408.025,"endTime":1413.365,"body":"So understanding the job"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1408.025,"endTime":1413.365,"body":"roles, but then having a."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1414.8,"endTime":1420.83,"body":"A house, an institution, a place where,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1414.8,"endTime":1420.83,"body":"um, those who are new to the practice"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1420.83,"endTime":1422.99,"body":"can come in and learn from others."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1422.99,"endTime":1426.44,"body":"A place where we can house our"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1422.99,"endTime":1426.44,"body":"collective knowledge, create our"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1426.44,"endTime":1429.17,"body":"own library of case studies of."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1429.44,"endTime":1435.5,"body":"Of all of the, the collective experience"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1429.44,"endTime":1435.5,"body":"and ways to share and learn, and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1435.5,"endTime":1440.48,"body":"then to recognize our, the, the level"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1435.5,"endTime":1440.48,"body":"of proficiency that people have."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1440.48,"endTime":1444.53,"body":"So, you know, uh, have you got"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1440.48,"endTime":1444.53,"body":"your practitioners certificates?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1444.77,"endTime":1446.9,"body":"You know, have you got"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1444.77,"endTime":1446.9,"body":"a, a management, uh."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1447.0,"endTime":1451.5,"body":"Uh, certificate all the way up to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1447.0,"endTime":1451.5,"body":"eventually having chartered status."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1451.8,"endTime":1456.51,"body":"Um, and so being able to get all of those"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1451.8,"endTime":1456.51,"body":"building blocks in place, that's how"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1456.51,"endTime":1463.17,"body":"we go about establishing a profession"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1456.51,"endTime":1463.17,"body":"and our job, our very important job."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1463.47,"endTime":1464.13,"body":"Um, you know."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1465.545,"endTime":1468.965,"body":"That we're doing right now is making"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1465.545,"endTime":1468.965,"body":"sure that we get that balance right"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1469.565,"endTime":1473.495,"body":"between that institutionalism and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1469.565,"endTime":1473.495,"body":"that organizational theory between"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1473.495,"endTime":1475.475,"body":"constructivism and behaviorism."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1475.655,"endTime":1478.985,"body":"It's a real, it's like standing"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1475.655,"endTime":1478.985,"body":"on a balance, balance ball."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1479.165,"endTime":1479.435,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1479.435,"endTime":1483.46,"body":"You've gotta get that just right,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1479.435,"endTime":1483.46,"body":"because if we go too far one way, then"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1483.635,"endTime":1487.985,"body":"we're a big box ticking exercise and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1483.635,"endTime":1487.985,"body":"everybody becomes automatons, and the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1487.985,"endTime":1489.755,"body":"only kind of innovation we'll see."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1490.25,"endTime":1491.33,"body":"Is incremental."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1491.45,"endTime":1492.77,"body":"It'll be really boring."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1493.34,"endTime":1493.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1493.79,"endTime":1495.17,"body":"You know, it'll be safe stuff."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1495.68,"endTime":1499.31,"body":"Um, and a we'll see a lot of frustration."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1499.52,"endTime":1499.7,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1499.7,"endTime":1503.6,"body":"You know, if we, if we, uh, too much"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1499.7,"endTime":1503.6,"body":"to the other side, we'll be back"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1503.6,"endTime":1506.87,"body":"where we, where we were before, where"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1503.6,"endTime":1506.87,"body":"nobody can talk the same language."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1506.87,"endTime":1508.88,"body":"We've all been in those"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1506.87,"endTime":1508.88,"body":"situations where you've got."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1509.27,"endTime":1513.68,"body":"You know, um, a group of, uh, startups"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1509.27,"endTime":1513.68,"body":"on one side of the room and a group of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1513.68,"endTime":1517.88,"body":"corporates on the other, and they, they,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1513.68,"endTime":1517.88,"body":"they even dress completely differently and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1517.88,"endTime":1521.87,"body":"they, they can't even have a conversation,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1517.88,"endTime":1521.87,"body":"you know, in a social environment, let"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1521.87,"endTime":1525.29,"body":"alone in the work environment because"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1521.87,"endTime":1525.29,"body":"there's, there's nothing that they have."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1525.765,"endTime":1529.725,"body":"Of consistency when it comes to their"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1525.765,"endTime":1529.725,"body":"language and their, their processes and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1529.73,"endTime":1535.425,"body":"their, their systems, you know, so it's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1529.73,"endTime":1535.425,"body":"making sure that we, we balance all of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1535.425,"endTime":1540.705,"body":"that, making sure that we don't err on"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1535.425,"endTime":1540.705,"body":"one side or the other too much as we begin"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1540.705,"endTime":1545.235,"body":"to professionalize innovation management,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1540.705,"endTime":1545.235,"body":"but have all of those kit of parts, um,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1545.265,"endTime":1546.975,"body":"like we've seen with quality management."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1547.215,"endTime":1547.515,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1549.255,"endTime":1551.985,"body":"yeah, I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1549.255,"endTime":1551.985,"body":"it's an interesting analogy as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1551.985,"endTime":1554.985,"body":"And I, one of the data"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1551.985,"endTime":1554.985,"body":"points that was discussed."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1555.56,"endTime":1559.76,"body":"Um, in one of our meetings was, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1555.56,"endTime":1559.76,"body":"that's not a data point that perhaps"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1559.76,"endTime":1563.63,"body":"many will know, is it typically has"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1559.76,"endTime":1563.63,"body":"taken about 15 years to go from that"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1563.63,"endTime":1568.1,"body":"point of early concepts of a profession"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1563.63,"endTime":1568.1,"body":"to it being a profession like quality"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1568.1,"endTime":1571.4,"body":"management took about 15 years,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1568.1,"endTime":1571.4,"body":"project management took about 15 years."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1571.4,"endTime":1577.7,"body":"So are we 15 years out or 14 maybe from"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1571.4,"endTime":1577.7,"body":"this being a profession, do you think?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1578.96,"endTime":1579.32,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1579.965,"endTime":1587.465,"body":"No, I think that we're moving a lot"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1579.965,"endTime":1587.465,"body":"faster, and that's to do with, um, AI"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1587.885,"endTime":1591.125,"body":"as well as, uh, using social media."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1591.125,"endTime":1596.735,"body":"The ability to bring people together"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1591.125,"endTime":1596.735,"body":"now is, is significantly faster than"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1596.735,"endTime":1599.18,"body":"it was, you know, 50 or 60 years ago."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1599.615,"endTime":1604.025,"body":"Um, and getting feedback and being able"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1599.615,"endTime":1604.025,"body":"to move a lot faster with these, with"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1604.025,"endTime":1606.335,"body":"these, um, with these developments."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1606.605,"endTime":1607.055,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1608.135,"endTime":1609.845,"body":"I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1608.135,"endTime":1609.845,"body":"gonna take us that long."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1609.995,"endTime":1613.865,"body":"We also have a bit of a catch up to do"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1609.995,"endTime":1613.865,"body":"in the uk so we see that some of the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1613.865,"endTime":1618.335,"body":"markets are, are a little bit further"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1613.865,"endTime":1618.335,"body":"ahead, um, of us as far as setting"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1618.335,"endTime":1620.254,"body":"up associations and things like that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1620.254,"endTime":1624.905,"body":"So, so there is a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1620.254,"endTime":1624.905,"body":"a, a race, if I can say that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1624.905,"endTime":1628.895,"body":"I think it's quite good to have a bit"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1624.905,"endTime":1628.895,"body":"of a, a bit of, um, pressure because"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1628.895,"endTime":1632.315,"body":"that gets us to, you know, to really"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1628.895,"endTime":1632.315,"body":"focus on, on what we need to do."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1632.705,"endTime":1633.695,"body":"Um, also."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1636.08,"endTime":1641.99,"body":"Looking across the world at the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1636.08,"endTime":1641.99,"body":"appetite for this professionalization."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1642.32,"endTime":1646.43,"body":"Uh, you know, some developed markets"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1642.32,"endTime":1646.43,"body":"might be a little bit slower to take"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1646.43,"endTime":1651.29,"body":"this up, but, um, when, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1646.43,"endTime":1651.29,"body":"recently been in, in southern Africa"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1651.29,"endTime":1653.09,"body":"and, and in places like that where."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1654.784,"endTime":1660.094,"body":"When we talk about this, there is such"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1654.784,"endTime":1660.094,"body":"interest and there's such appetite for it."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1660.419,"endTime":1665.074,"body":"It's really very exciting to see that this"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1660.419,"endTime":1665.074,"body":"is, this isn't just, you know, happening"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1665.074,"endTime":1669.365,"body":"here with, with our little group of, of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1665.074,"endTime":1669.365,"body":"experts who are, you know, who, you know,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1669.365,"endTime":1671.375,"body":"in our own little kind of echo chamber."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1671.675,"endTime":1675.094,"body":"This is a, this is global and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1671.675,"endTime":1675.094,"body":"there's a global appetite for this"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1675.094,"endTime":1679.205,"body":"and it's, it is really an exciting"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1675.094,"endTime":1679.205,"body":"time to be part of what's happening."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1679.205,"endTime":1681.574,"body":"It's the uptake on the standard as well."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1682.399,"endTime":1688.43,"body":"That's usually a really good indicator"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1682.399,"endTime":1688.43,"body":"of how there is a demand and, and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1688.43,"endTime":1691.159,"body":"need, but at the rate of change."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1691.46,"endTime":1699.08,"body":"And so seeing, um, organizations"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1691.46,"endTime":1699.08,"body":"like the NHS already training and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1699.085,"endTime":1705.92,"body":"beginning to apply 56,001, um,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1699.085,"endTime":1705.92,"body":"when it literally was published in"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1705.92,"endTime":1707.87,"body":"September of last year is phenomenal."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1708.53,"endTime":1710.78,"body":"I don't think there's any"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1708.53,"endTime":1710.78,"body":"been uptake like that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1711.245,"endTime":1714.905,"body":"Of any of the major, um,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1711.245,"endTime":1714.905,"body":"management system standards."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1714.905,"endTime":1719.375,"body":"So one of the largest organizations"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1714.905,"endTime":1719.375,"body":"in the world beginning to, to look"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1719.375,"endTime":1723.35,"body":"at implementing 56,001 is, is a huge"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1723.77,"endTime":1724.51,"body":"agreed, huge."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1724.51,"endTime":1724.511,"body":"Agreed."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1725.54,"endTime":1726.71,"body":"Kind of our agreed."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1726.785,"endTime":1730.39,"body":"And I do think that that"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1726.785,"endTime":1730.39,"body":"global perspective is, is"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1730.39,"endTime":1731.525,"body":"kind of fascinating actually."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1731.525,"endTime":1735.875,"body":"And the bits of the world that are"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1731.525,"endTime":1735.875,"body":"jumping on this, um, yeah, it'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1735.875,"endTime":1738.785,"body":"interesting to watch that trajectory"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1735.875,"endTime":1738.785,"body":"over the next little while as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1738.965,"endTime":1739.925,"body":"You've mentioned."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1740.284,"endTime":1744.935,"body":"56,001. And, and, and you know, listeners"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1740.284,"endTime":1744.935,"body":"may not be super familiar with this."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1744.935,"endTime":1750.365,"body":"I suspect also there's a degree of, uh,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1744.935,"endTime":1750.365,"body":"I don't know, let's call it cynicism."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1750.365,"endTime":1754.475,"body":"Maybe an eyebrow, an eyebrow raised"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1750.365,"endTime":1754.475,"body":"or something around the idea of,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1754.985,"endTime":1757.415,"body":"uh, ISO standard for innovation."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1757.415,"endTime":1759.754,"body":"Like, you know, so let's talk about that."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1759.754,"endTime":1761.165,"body":"Like what, what are these standards?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1761.165,"endTime":1765.725,"body":"Can you just introduce the concepts,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1761.165,"endTime":1765.725,"body":"um, for people and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1765.995,"endTime":1767.435,"body":"and then maybe we'll get into."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1767.84,"endTime":1770.0,"body":"Why we should reserve some cynicism."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1770.0,"endTime":1772.73,"body":"I mean, we've spoken a little bit, a bit,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1770.0,"endTime":1772.73,"body":"a little bit about it in this dialogue"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1772.73,"endTime":1776.36,"body":"already, but you know, once you get"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1772.73,"endTime":1776.36,"body":"into the weeds of a standards document"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1776.36,"endTime":1778.79,"body":"and you know, they're quite, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1776.36,"endTime":1778.79,"body":"they're quite, they're quite long."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1778.79,"endTime":1780.71,"body":"They're good, but they're"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1778.79,"endTime":1780.71,"body":"quite long documents, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1780.71,"endTime":1783.92,"body":"Like, how do we, how do we make sure"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1780.71,"endTime":1783.92,"body":"this doesn't become that sort of box"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1783.92,"endTime":1788.12,"body":"ticking, reduced to compliance exercise"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":1783.92,"endTime":1788.12,"body":"that some of these ISO standards are?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1788.43,"endTime":1788.79,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1789.06,"endTime":1789.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1789.27,"endTime":1793.92,"body":"And that's really, that's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1789.27,"endTime":1793.92,"body":"that's so important that it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1793.92,"endTime":1796.98,"body":"go that box ticking route that we,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1793.92,"endTime":1796.98,"body":"you know, that balance ball, our"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1796.98,"endTime":1801.45,"body":"balance ball, that we, that we fall"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1796.98,"endTime":1801.45,"body":"over, um, into that kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1801.75,"endTime":1803.97,"body":"institutional, you know, behaviorism."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1804.12,"endTime":1805.41,"body":"It would, that would be."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1805.61,"endTime":1806.9,"body":"That would be a disaster."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1806.9,"endTime":1810.23,"body":"So the 56,000, the suite."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1810.56,"endTime":1815.0,"body":"Um, so it's a whole, it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1810.56,"endTime":1815.0,"body":"like walking into your favorite, uh,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1815.03,"endTime":1819.86,"body":"bookshop and going into the management"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1815.03,"endTime":1819.86,"body":"section and then finding the shelf"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1819.95,"endTime":1821.78,"body":"that's on innovation management."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1822.02,"endTime":1825.02,"body":"And there's all the books that are,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1822.02,"endTime":1825.02,"body":"that are there that have been published."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1825.38,"endTime":1829.37,"body":"Um, and uh, how ISO works is we have."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1830.165,"endTime":1835.355,"body":"They're, they're kind of more"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1830.165,"endTime":1835.355,"body":"like reports, um, but we have"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1835.355,"endTime":1836.855,"body":"those that are requirements."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1836.855,"endTime":1841.355,"body":"So you have to meet these requirements"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1836.855,"endTime":1841.355,"body":"and then you can get the certificate,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1841.355,"endTime":1844.955,"body":"and that's always the thousand and one."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1845.735,"endTime":1847.685,"body":"And so that's the requirement standard."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1847.685,"endTime":1848.735,"body":"But below that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1849.125,"endTime":1853.055,"body":"You'll find 56,002, 3,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1849.125,"endTime":1853.055,"body":"4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1853.085,"endTime":1855.935,"body":"I think we're about 13, 14, and 15."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1855.935,"endTime":1856.955,"body":"We are writing at the moment."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1856.955,"endTime":1860.21,"body":"So you'll find a whole"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1856.955,"endTime":1860.21,"body":"lot of other, uh, kind of."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1860.794,"endTime":1865.445,"body":"Management self-help books"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1860.794,"endTime":1865.445,"body":"around, uh, partnerships around"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1865.504,"endTime":1867.455,"body":"innovation management for ip."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1867.965,"endTime":1872.135,"body":"So how to handle your IP when it comes"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1867.965,"endTime":1872.135,"body":"to innovation, how to, how to work with"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1872.135,"endTime":1877.294,"body":"partners, how to best assess your system,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1872.135,"endTime":1877.294,"body":"how to best measure your system, all"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1877.294,"endTime":1882.065,"body":"of these individual guidances so you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1877.294,"endTime":1882.065,"body":"don't get certified against them, but."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1882.26,"endTime":1885.44,"body":"What it does is it gives you the best"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1882.26,"endTime":1885.44,"body":"advice, and when I say it's the best"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1885.44,"endTime":1892.37,"body":"advice, it is literally, like I say,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1885.44,"endTime":1892.37,"body":"about four years worth of, uh, usually"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1893.27,"endTime":1896.57,"body":"anywhere between, you know, um, 80."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1897.65,"endTime":1903.32,"body":"To a hundred experts who are on our"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1897.65,"endTime":1903.32,"body":"committee working on that particular"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1903.32,"endTime":1908.06,"body":"report, uh, you know, developing it,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1903.32,"endTime":1908.06,"body":"putting in best practice, refining"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1908.06,"endTime":1909.17,"body":"it, refining it, refining it."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1909.17,"endTime":1912.86,"body":"So it really is best practice"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1909.17,"endTime":1912.86,"body":"advice that you could possibly"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1912.86,"endTime":1915.23,"body":"find, um, on how to best."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1916.61,"endTime":1920.42,"body":"Assess or measure whatever aspect"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1916.61,"endTime":1920.42,"body":"of innovation management that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1920.42,"endTime":1923.389,"body":"you're particularly interested"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1920.42,"endTime":1923.389,"body":"in, in one of those guidances."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1923.81,"endTime":1928.31,"body":"And the first number, 56,000,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1923.81,"endTime":1928.31,"body":"that's our little dictionary."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1928.639,"endTime":1933.23,"body":"So that's gonna have all of these words"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1928.639,"endTime":1933.23,"body":"like what is it, does innovation mean?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1933.41,"endTime":1935.3,"body":"What is innovation management?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1935.66,"endTime":1939.59,"body":"What is, uh, an innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1935.66,"endTime":1939.59,"body":"management system?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1940.55,"endTime":1944.12,"body":"And it describes what each"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1940.55,"endTime":1944.12,"body":"one of those things are."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1944.96,"endTime":1945.68,"body":"And so."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1946.07,"endTime":1951.92,"body":"What, what that's really all about is"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1946.07,"endTime":1951.92,"body":"actually starting to say, as an innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1951.92,"endTime":1958.19,"body":"manager, you're not the manager of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1951.92,"endTime":1958.19,"body":"that particular piece of innovation."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1958.19,"endTime":1961.73,"body":"As it moves through the organization"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1958.19,"endTime":1961.73,"body":"from the Post-it notes all the way"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1961.73,"endTime":1965.09,"body":"through, you know, to the product"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1961.73,"endTime":1965.09,"body":"sitting on the shelf or the service"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1965.15,"endTime":1969.35,"body":"that it becomes, or whatever it might"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1965.15,"endTime":1969.35,"body":"be, that you are actually responsible"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1969.35,"endTime":1971.93,"body":"for the management of the system."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1972.11,"endTime":1973.61,"body":"That happens to be innovation."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1974.03,"endTime":1977.06,"body":"And understanding kind of that role."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1977.33,"endTime":1982.34,"body":"And that's really what the standards"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1977.33,"endTime":1982.34,"body":"kind of as, as an innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1982.34,"endTime":1983.78,"body":"management system standard."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1983.87,"endTime":1989.12,"body":"The whole suite really teaches you,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1983.87,"endTime":1989.12,"body":"it teaches you to kind of step back"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1989.12,"endTime":1992.69,"body":"and say, well, I'm actually, maybe"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1989.12,"endTime":1992.69,"body":"rather than calling me the innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1992.69,"endTime":1997.4,"body":"management, call me the, the,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1992.69,"endTime":1997.4,"body":"the innovation systems architect."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1998.375,"endTime":2002.905,"body":"Because effectively that's my job"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":1998.375,"endTime":2002.905,"body":"to be able to, to create this, um,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2002.995,"endTime":2006.985,"body":"when I'm, when I'm implementing the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2002.995,"endTime":2006.985,"body":"standards and, and putting them in place."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2006.985,"endTime":2012.595,"body":"So 56,001 is really, uh, kind of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2006.985,"endTime":2012.595,"body":"the, the requirements so that you can"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2012.595,"endTime":2016.495,"body":"get the certification, but for the,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2012.595,"endTime":2016.495,"body":"for the person doing the job in your"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2016.495,"endTime":2022.135,"body":"organization, it is the, the, the kind"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2016.495,"endTime":2022.135,"body":"of guidebook, the, the guard rails, the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2022.135,"endTime":2023.995,"body":"processes to be able to implement it."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2026.92,"endTime":2030.49,"body":"To make sure it's not a box"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2026.92,"endTime":2030.49,"body":"ticking exercise to make sure we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2030.49,"endTime":2032.35,"body":"don't go over on our balance pool."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2033.28,"endTime":2039.37,"body":"We've put in eight principles"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2033.28,"endTime":2039.37,"body":"and the eight principles and are"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2039.7,"endTime":2043.42,"body":"fundamental to how we've written."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2043.48,"endTime":2049.0,"body":"We've written the standards, so as a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2043.48,"endTime":2049.0,"body":"committee we agreed the principles first."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2049.345,"endTime":2054.055,"body":"That was the hardest part for us in the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2049.345,"endTime":2054.055,"body":"15 years that we've been working, is"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2054.055,"endTime":2057.565,"body":"actually deciding on the eight principles."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2057.985,"endTime":2060.685,"body":"And these are all about"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2057.985,"endTime":2060.685,"body":"future focused leaders."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2060.685,"endTime":2064.225,"body":"Leaders who are brave and courageous,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2060.685,"endTime":2064.225,"body":"who actually support innovation."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2064.915,"endTime":2069.715,"body":"You know, it's about having strategic"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2064.915,"endTime":2069.715,"body":"alignment so that your innovation aligns"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2069.715,"endTime":2072.235,"body":"to, to the strategy of the organization."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2072.625,"endTime":2074.665,"body":"It's about generating value."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2074.935,"endTime":2078.595,"body":"If your innovation is not"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2074.935,"endTime":2078.595,"body":"generating value, you are not."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2078.955,"endTime":2080.065,"body":"Doing innovation."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2080.065,"endTime":2082.555,"body":"It's, it, it's about having"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2080.065,"endTime":2082.555,"body":"the right kind of culture."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2082.885,"endTime":2087.265,"body":"It's about having an adaptable"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2082.885,"endTime":2087.265,"body":"structures so that you are agile and,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2087.325,"endTime":2091.735,"body":"and flexible in how you structure"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2087.325,"endTime":2091.735,"body":"your teams so that you can actually"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2092.065,"endTime":2094.075,"body":"get this innovation to market."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2094.645,"endTime":2098.035,"body":"You know, it's all, all of these"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2094.645,"endTime":2098.035,"body":"aspects that make make it up."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2098.035,"endTime":2103.285,"body":"And of course, that's systems"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2098.035,"endTime":2103.285,"body":"approach and that's the magic source."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2103.69,"endTime":2104.71,"body":"That helps you."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2104.83,"endTime":2108.31,"body":"In fact, I would, I would actually say"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2104.83,"endTime":2108.31,"body":"that that helps you define the center of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2108.31,"endTime":2110.92,"body":"our balance goal are the eight principles."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2111.19,"endTime":2115.75,"body":"So, so you've got this whole"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2111.19,"endTime":2115.75,"body":"wonderful structure, frameworks,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2115.75,"endTime":2118.18,"body":"all of that within 56,001."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2118.18,"endTime":2120.31,"body":"That's your requirement standard, but."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2121.075,"endTime":2124.765,"body":"Fundamental to it, right in the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2121.075,"endTime":2124.765,"body":"center sits the eight principles."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2124.765,"endTime":2128.545,"body":"And that will help you always as"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2124.765,"endTime":2128.545,"body":"your systems architect to balance"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2128.545,"endTime":2130.225,"body":"to say, have I got this right?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2130.255,"endTime":2134.635,"body":"Am I giving enough creative freedom where"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2130.255,"endTime":2134.635,"body":"I need to, um, you know, have, have we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2134.635,"endTime":2138.955,"body":"got our process right so that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2134.635,"endTime":2138.955,"body":"we're not allowing things to run too long"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2139.225,"endTime":2144.085,"body":"before we decide whether, um, it needs"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2139.225,"endTime":2144.085,"body":"to be, maybe even be stopped as a piece"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2144.085,"endTime":2145.975,"body":"of innovation to know when to say no."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2146.275,"endTime":2148.705,"body":"You know, all of those sorts"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2146.275,"endTime":2148.705,"body":"of aspects you can then"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2148.705,"endTime":2150.325,"body":"manage from that center point."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2151.39,"endTime":2152.56,"body":"Yeah, I like that analogy."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2152.56,"endTime":2155.17,"body":"I just came back from a week's"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2152.56,"endTime":2155.17,"body":"vacation and one of the, there was"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2155.17,"endTime":2158.5,"body":"a circus act one night where the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2155.17,"endTime":2158.5,"body":"person wasn't on one balance board."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2158.5,"endTime":2161.049,"body":"They were on about 12 different"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2158.5,"endTime":2161.049,"body":"things on top of this thing."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2161.049,"endTime":2161.56,"body":"Balancing."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2161.56,"endTime":2163.21,"body":"I feel like that's what"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2161.56,"endTime":2163.21,"body":"we're doing sometimes."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2163.569,"endTime":2166.54,"body":"Um, but you know, they made it so"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2163.569,"endTime":2166.54,"body":"we can make it, we can make it as"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2166.54,"endTime":2168.85,"body":"well as we kind of come towards."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2168.87,"endTime":2171.839,"body":"The, the end of this, hopefully"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2168.87,"endTime":2171.839,"body":"there's people sitting thinking,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2171.87,"endTime":2173.31,"body":"oh, this sounds, this sounds great."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2173.31,"endTime":2177.06,"body":"You know how you and I do like the idea"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2173.31,"endTime":2177.06,"body":"of a systems architect for this, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2177.06,"endTime":2179.79,"body":"Like, I have some philosophical"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2177.06,"endTime":2179.79,"body":"challenges with the role of"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2179.79,"endTime":2181.17,"body":"a chief innovation officer."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2181.17,"endTime":2183.15,"body":"'cause it's not really a"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2181.17,"endTime":2183.15,"body":"chief role in my opinion."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2183.45,"endTime":2187.08,"body":"Um, even if it is, it's not in"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2183.45,"endTime":2187.08,"body":"organizations, but the people getting"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2187.08,"endTime":2191.88,"body":"stuck in and making this, you know,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2187.08,"endTime":2191.88,"body":"embedded and integrated and systematized"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2191.88,"endTime":2193.259,"body":"as you've, as you've spoken to."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2193.795,"endTime":2195.055,"body":"Is the role, I think, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2195.055,"endTime":2196.405,"body":"From my, from my perspective."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2196.765,"endTime":2200.005,"body":"But what if people wanna, wanna find"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2196.765,"endTime":2200.005,"body":"out more, or like, what advice would"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2200.005,"endTime":2203.335,"body":"you give to, to people that are"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2200.005,"endTime":2203.335,"body":"going, this sounds, this sounds great."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2203.335,"endTime":2205.855,"body":"How can I, you know, what is the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2203.335,"endTime":2205.855,"body":"level of effort to take home?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2205.855,"endTime":2207.025,"body":"Like, can I find out more?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2207.025,"endTime":2209.425,"body":"Like, what does it, let's make"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2207.025,"endTime":2209.425,"body":"it a bit bit real for people."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2209.725,"endTime":2210.625,"body":"What it, what it might look like."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2211.615,"endTime":2216.145,"body":"So, um, one of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2211.615,"endTime":2216.145,"body":"the things we did do is, is we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2216.145,"endTime":2219.265,"body":"made 56,001 as short as possible."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2219.835,"endTime":2226.465,"body":"Um, and it, this is one of those things"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2219.835,"endTime":2226.465,"body":"where I really recommend that you get the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2226.465,"endTime":2229.134,"body":"standard that, that you buy the standard."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2229.495,"endTime":2233.785,"body":"Um, and, and give it a read because"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2229.495,"endTime":2233.785,"body":"it's one of those things, uh, you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2233.785,"endTime":2238.134,"body":"know, it's a lot of people think,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2233.785,"endTime":2238.134,"body":"oh, this is gonna be onerous, this"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2238.134,"endTime":2239.785,"body":"is gonna be really heavy, but."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2240.13,"endTime":2242.71,"body":"We've kept it super simple."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2242.92,"endTime":2246.819,"body":"Um, we've designed it so that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2242.92,"endTime":2246.819,"body":"it can apply to a startup, a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2246.819,"endTime":2248.56,"body":"social enterprise, to anybody."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2248.92,"endTime":2254.23,"body":"Um, and you know, going back and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2248.92,"endTime":2254.23,"body":"reading it afresh myself, I'm like this."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2255.43,"endTime":2259.09,"body":"You literally can read"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2255.43,"endTime":2259.09,"body":"it in within an hour."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2259.09,"endTime":2262.0,"body":"You can page through the whole"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2259.09,"endTime":2262.0,"body":"thing and get, get a lot of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2262.0,"endTime":2263.799,"body":"value just in doing that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2264.279,"endTime":2266.41,"body":"Um, so I recommend that you do that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2266.41,"endTime":2268.12,"body":"There's lots online about it."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2268.21,"endTime":2273.52,"body":"Um, you can also pick up 56,002,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2268.21,"endTime":2273.52,"body":"which is kind of a guidance"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2273.52,"endTime":2275.38,"body":"for the whole of 56,001."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2275.59,"endTime":2278.62,"body":"So if you want a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2275.59,"endTime":2278.62,"body":"meat on the bones, that's, that's."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2279.225,"endTime":2282.524,"body":"Really a good one to, to kind"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2279.225,"endTime":2282.524,"body":"of understand in a little bit"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2282.524,"endTime":2285.044,"body":"more detail what we're really"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2282.524,"endTime":2285.044,"body":"talking about with everything,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2285.524,"endTime":2288.225,"body":"but, you know, go to the source."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2288.314,"endTime":2291.194,"body":"Um, if, if I'm honest, just,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2288.314,"endTime":2291.194,"body":"just go to the source because"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2291.194,"endTime":2293.325,"body":"it's not that complicated."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2293.714,"endTime":2298.004,"body":"Um, and it's a really simple framework,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2293.714,"endTime":2298.004,"body":"you know, that covers off leadership"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2298.004,"endTime":2302.595,"body":"planning, um, your kind of resourcing"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2298.004,"endTime":2302.595,"body":"your context and then your process."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2302.865,"endTime":2303.944,"body":"And that's pretty much it."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2304.245,"endTime":2308.654,"body":"Um, along with those eight principles, you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2304.245,"endTime":2308.654,"body":"know, you can very quickly start to say."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2309.189,"endTime":2312.1,"body":"Well, do we have these, do we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2309.189,"endTime":2312.1,"body":"have the right kind of leadership?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2312.1,"endTime":2313.54,"body":"Do we have the right kind of culture?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2313.81,"endTime":2316.45,"body":"Do I have a systems approach"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2313.81,"endTime":2316.45,"body":"to my innovation management?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2316.629,"endTime":2319.27,"body":"Oh, no, I hadn't, we haven't actually"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2316.629,"endTime":2319.27,"body":"thought about it like that before."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2319.899,"endTime":2323.379,"body":"Um, you know, and you can immediately"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2319.899,"endTime":2323.379,"body":"start to see where there are"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2323.379,"endTime":2327.85,"body":"opportunities for, for yourselves, your,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2323.379,"endTime":2327.85,"body":"your own organization where you can"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2327.85,"endTime":2329.68,"body":"start to start to make improvements."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2330.04,"endTime":2332.229,"body":"Um, and that's the best"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2330.04,"endTime":2332.229,"body":"place to start, really."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2334.419,"endTime":2334.81,"body":"No, I, I, I agree."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2334.81,"endTime":2339.775,"body":"I think there is still a. Uh,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2334.81,"endTime":2339.775,"body":"listen and receive or read"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2339.775,"endTime":2341.185,"body":"and receive challenge in this."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2341.185,"endTime":2344.305,"body":"Back to that very sort of, you"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2341.185,"endTime":2344.305,"body":"know, sort of pejorative example"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2344.305,"endTime":2345.265,"body":"of what does innovation mean."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2345.265,"endTime":2347.755,"body":"You can read the words"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2345.265,"endTime":2347.755,"body":"on that a thousand times."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2347.759,"endTime":2347.97,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2347.97,"endTime":2349.075,"body":"And go, yeah, I get it."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2349.285,"endTime":2352.285,"body":"And then one day wake up on day"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2349.285,"endTime":2352.285,"body":"thousand one and go, oh, I get it."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2352.345,"endTime":2352.675,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2352.675,"endTime":2355.165,"body":"It's like, it's, there's a, there's"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2352.675,"endTime":2355.165,"body":"a moment in that journey and that's"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2355.165,"endTime":2359.695,"body":"true against every little bit of"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2355.165,"endTime":2359.695,"body":"that, of that learning in that."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2360.16,"endTime":2363.73,"body":"It's not really, I think what you are"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2360.16,"endTime":2363.73,"body":"receiving sometimes, 'cause you've kind"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2363.73,"endTime":2367.15,"body":"of got this institutional perspective"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2363.73,"endTime":2367.15,"body":"that you're coming from, from a business"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2367.15,"endTime":2371.56,"body":"side, you've got preconceived ideas that"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2367.15,"endTime":2371.56,"body":"are very deeply baked inside the things"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2371.56,"endTime":2376.06,"body":"that we've been taught that need to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2371.56,"endTime":2376.06,"body":"relearned and reconsidered, I think."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2376.06,"endTime":2379.03,"body":"And so I think the people that"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2376.06,"endTime":2379.03,"body":"have done the work in this room"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2379.03,"endTime":2382.39,"body":"are actually true experts in this"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2379.03,"endTime":2382.39,"body":"because they've come to understand."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2383.169,"endTime":2385.96,"body":"I think, but we still got work to do"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2383.169,"endTime":2385.96,"body":"to make sure that that's translated"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2385.96,"endTime":2388.089,"body":"and received in the right way."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2388.39,"endTime":2392.5,"body":"Um, and that even though the document's"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2388.39,"endTime":2392.5,"body":"been made quite simple, I think taking"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2392.5,"endTime":2394.21,"body":"it and actually doing it properly."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2394.6,"endTime":2397.06,"body":"Does require, and that's back to"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2394.6,"endTime":2397.06,"body":"my, you know, previous question"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2397.06,"endTime":2398.23,"body":"of should this be a profession?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2398.23,"endTime":2401.83,"body":"I, I think it absolutely has"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2398.23,"endTime":2401.83,"body":"to be for those reasons, right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2401.86,"endTime":2405.46,"body":"Um, I think it's embedded in the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2401.86,"endTime":2405.46,"body":"organization and, and, and probably"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2405.46,"endTime":2408.52,"body":"across more people than some"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2405.46,"endTime":2408.52,"body":"professions might need to be as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2408.73,"endTime":2410.35,"body":"Um, so we've gotta make it accessible."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2410.71,"endTime":2413.799,"body":"And maybe that leads into my final"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2410.71,"endTime":2413.799,"body":"question is like, aside from the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2413.799,"endTime":2417.46,"body":"professionalization of the standard, and"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2413.799,"endTime":2417.46,"body":"we've got, you mentioned earlier, like,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2417.49,"endTime":2419.59,"body":"AI may be helping to us accelerate this."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2419.59,"endTime":2421.81,"body":"Like what do you think"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2419.59,"endTime":2421.81,"body":"is next for the field of."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2422.19,"endTime":2425.91,"body":"Of innovation and what gives you"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2422.19,"endTime":2425.91,"body":"hope and excitement about the"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2425.91,"endTime":2428.76,"body":"future of this rather than maybe"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2425.91,"endTime":2428.76,"body":"some of the nervousness and fear?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2429.03,"endTime":2430.32,"body":"Um, particularly with ai."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2432.21,"endTime":2437.64,"body":"Oh, AI is a, is a fabulous"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2432.21,"endTime":2437.64,"body":"tool and good innovation is about knowing"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2437.64,"endTime":2445.47,"body":"how to ask the right questions, and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2437.64,"endTime":2445.47,"body":"that's the job for us as the humans."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2445.885,"endTime":2448.825,"body":"To, to start to, to become better at."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2449.425,"endTime":2452.875,"body":"And that's, for me, is really"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2449.425,"endTime":2452.875,"body":"interesting because there's a behavior"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2452.875,"endTime":2454.375,"body":"change that has to happen with us."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2454.795,"endTime":2459.865,"body":"Uh, you know, that we, we kind of go,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2454.795,"endTime":2459.865,"body":"well, what, how is AI gonna develop?"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2460.195,"endTime":2463.615,"body":"I'm more interested in how"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2460.195,"endTime":2463.615,"body":"we are gonna develop because."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2465.31,"endTime":2472.48,"body":"Our current workforce have been told"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2465.31,"endTime":2472.48,"body":"not to ask questions, have been told,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2472.63,"endTime":2474.46,"body":"you know, you know, kind of do your job."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2474.46,"endTime":2478.27,"body":"Don't, you know, don't,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2474.46,"endTime":2478.27,"body":"don't think outside the box."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2478.33,"endTime":2479.74,"body":"Get, be really efficient."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2479.855,"endTime":2481.265,"body":"Stick within your lane."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2481.565,"endTime":2483.695,"body":"Um, and you know, and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2481.565,"endTime":2483.695,"body":"you'll, you'll be fine."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2483.695,"endTime":2486.485,"body":"You'll, you know, you'll be able to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2483.695,"endTime":2486.485,"body":"bring home a paycheck and that's,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2486.725,"endTime":2488.735,"body":"that's what's being asked of you."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2488.735,"endTime":2492.185,"body":"And kind of, and then we also"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2488.735,"endTime":2492.185,"body":"develop these areas of expertise"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2492.185,"endTime":2493.715,"body":"and nobody questions that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2494.71,"endTime":2499.12,"body":"But AI is fantastic because"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2494.71,"endTime":2499.12,"body":"you can now question everything"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2499.149,"endTime":2501.1,"body":"and get information about that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2501.1,"endTime":2501.754,"body":"Get, get."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2502.24,"endTime":2509.859,"body":"I often say that AI is, is more, um,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2502.24,"endTime":2509.859,"body":"you know, ao um, it's aggregated opinion"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2510.25,"endTime":2514.359,"body":"as opposed to artificial intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2510.25,"endTime":2514.359,"body":"but as an aggregated opinion that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2514.359,"endTime":2516.879,"body":"can help to inform your question and."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2517.27,"endTime":2519.43,"body":"Innovating is all about learning."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2519.46,"endTime":2523.66,"body":"It's all about asking questions and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2519.46,"endTime":2523.66,"body":"asking better and better questions"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2523.84,"endTime":2527.32,"body":"and, and managing those uncertainties,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2523.84,"endTime":2527.32,"body":"getting those answers down."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2527.32,"endTime":2532.6,"body":"So, so for me it's a, there's"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2527.32,"endTime":2532.6,"body":"a, it's a huge enabler of the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2532.6,"endTime":2538.45,"body":"behavior change that we need to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2532.6,"endTime":2538.45,"body":"take basically 30 years of staff."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2540.475,"endTime":2546.085,"body":"Through, because we need people to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2540.475,"endTime":2546.085,"body":"go from being, being very much about"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2546.085,"endTime":2550.765,"body":"being efficient and knowledgeable"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2546.085,"endTime":2550.765,"body":"and expert, to being comfortable with"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2550.765,"endTime":2556.105,"body":"ambiguity, to being able to look at very"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2550.765,"endTime":2556.105,"body":"disparate data, to be able to ask, um,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2556.105,"endTime":2558.025,"body":"you know, kind of difficult questions."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2558.235,"endTime":2562.435,"body":"Uh, don't have assumptions, challenge"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2558.235,"endTime":2562.435,"body":"assumptions, all of these things."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2562.77,"endTime":2567.145,"body":"And the, in the, in 56,001,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2562.77,"endTime":2567.145,"body":"we start with leadership."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2567.505,"endTime":2570.445,"body":"Leadership first, and then the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2567.505,"endTime":2570.445,"body":"next thing is behavior change."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2571.195,"endTime":2572.725,"body":"It's leadership and behavior change."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2573.055,"endTime":2576.025,"body":"And then, and your culture and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2573.055,"endTime":2576.025,"body":"communication, you know that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2576.295,"endTime":2583.165,"body":"So what's really exciting is as we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2576.295,"endTime":2583.165,"body":"professionalize this, as we start to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2583.165,"endTime":2588.505,"body":"take innovation seriously as a, as"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2583.165,"endTime":2588.505,"body":"a leader of optimization within an"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2588.505,"endTime":2591.384,"body":"organization's capabilities, okay."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2592.015,"endTime":2594.715,"body":"And that's really what's happening"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2592.015,"endTime":2594.715,"body":"with professionalization and with the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2594.715,"endTime":2596.065,"body":"standard, that's where we're putting it."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2596.8,"endTime":2601.09,"body":"When you start to understand that,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2596.8,"endTime":2601.09,"body":"that's, that's when we start to see"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2601.09,"endTime":2603.61,"body":"the right kind of leadership, the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2601.09,"endTime":2603.61,"body":"right kind of leadership thinking."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2603.94,"endTime":2608.35,"body":"And that's where we, we can then affect"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2603.94,"endTime":2608.35,"body":"that behavior change along with ai and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2608.35,"endTime":2613.72,"body":"we can start to do incredible things"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2608.35,"endTime":2613.72,"body":"because we, we have a, a huge amount of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2613.72,"endTime":2617.5,"body":"knowledge that we can draw from these"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2613.72,"endTime":2617.5,"body":"disparate data sets that we never had"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2617.5,"endTime":2619.78,"body":"before, uh, to, to make these changes."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2619.78,"endTime":2623.02,"body":"So, so, no, I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2619.78,"endTime":2623.02,"body":"very excited about what."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2623.875,"endTime":2630.505,"body":"More structure is going to help to bring"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2623.875,"endTime":2630.505,"body":"along with this huge proliferation of"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2630.505,"endTime":2633.535,"body":"data that we have through the likes of ai."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2633.865,"endTime":2637.674,"body":"And the third piece to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2633.865,"endTime":2637.674,"body":"structure the standards, ai,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2637.674,"endTime":2639.745,"body":"this proliferation of of data."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2640.435,"endTime":2645.055,"body":"And then we've got the behavior"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2640.435,"endTime":2645.055,"body":"change, the right leadership."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2645.445,"endTime":2650.995,"body":"The ability to, to give people back"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2645.445,"endTime":2650.995,"body":"their right to creativity, their"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2650.995,"endTime":2655.705,"body":"right to, to freedom of thought,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2650.995,"endTime":2655.705,"body":"their right to exploration and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2655.705,"endTime":2658.435,"body":"experimentation because everybody."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2659.44,"endTime":2661.33,"body":"Deserves to have that right."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2661.33,"endTime":2666.67,"body":"And so many of us lost that through our"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2661.33,"endTime":2666.67,"body":"education, through, you know, the way that"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2666.67,"endTime":2672.79,"body":"we expect people to behave through social"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2666.67,"endTime":2672.79,"body":"norming, through that constructivism."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2672.79,"endTime":2675.25,"body":"We, you know, we've said, no,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2672.79,"endTime":2675.25,"body":"no, you can't do that socially."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2675.25,"endTime":2677.049,"body":"It's unacceptable for you to do that."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2677.29,"endTime":2681.279,"body":"We are now, we can now actually"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2677.29,"endTime":2681.279,"body":"start to, to give people back their,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2681.279,"endTime":2685.18,"body":"their, their freedom of creativity,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2681.279,"endTime":2685.18,"body":"which, uh, I think is very important."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2685.255,"endTime":2687.955,"body":"But I've, I've covered so much."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2687.955,"endTime":2689.005,"body":"I hope that, uh, you've"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2689.005,"endTime":2691.405,"body":"covered a lot and I feel"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2689.005,"endTime":2691.405,"body":"like I had more questions, but that"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2691.405,"endTime":2692.995,"body":"was such a nice way to end that."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2692.995,"endTime":2694.315,"body":"Maybe that's where we should end."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2694.735,"endTime":2696.715,"body":"Um, this, this, this episode."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2696.985,"endTime":2700.675,"body":"Just quickly for listeners who want to"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2696.985,"endTime":2700.675,"body":"know more about you and your work at"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2700.675,"endTime":2704.125,"body":"Verity Merits and, and the standards and"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2700.675,"endTime":2704.125,"body":"stuff, maybe just, just talk a little"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2704.125,"endTime":2706.975,"body":"bit about the work that you're doing"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2704.125,"endTime":2706.975,"body":"there and, and how people can find you."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2707.58,"endTime":2707.88,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2707.88,"endTime":2713.009,"body":"So, um, so we're responsible for,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2707.88,"endTime":2713.009,"body":"uh, training around the standards and"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2713.009,"endTime":2717.48,"body":"helping to, IM embed them looking at"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2713.009,"endTime":2717.48,"body":"the kind of competencies that you need"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2717.48,"endTime":2720.75,"body":"within your organization and helping"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2717.48,"endTime":2720.75,"body":"with that kind of behavior change."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2720.99,"endTime":2724.95,"body":"So we're, we support organizations,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2720.99,"endTime":2724.95,"body":"like I mentioned, um, the NHS."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2725.59,"endTime":2729.46,"body":"Um, in the training and implementation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2725.59,"endTime":2729.46,"body":"of, uh, of the standard."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2729.79,"endTime":2733.15,"body":"Um, and that's come from a"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2729.79,"endTime":2733.15,"body":"background of, of, uh, innovation"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2733.15,"endTime":2737.32,"body":"management, uh, consulting for"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2733.15,"endTime":2737.32,"body":"the last, uh, eight or nine years."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2737.62,"endTime":2739.66,"body":"Uh, but we're also"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2737.62,"endTime":2739.66,"body":"spreading the good word."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2739.66,"endTime":2742.99,"body":"So if you wanna know more, uh, you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2739.66,"endTime":2742.99,"body":"know, if you wanna be part of the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2742.99,"endTime":2747.46,"body":"conversation around how we start to"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2742.99,"endTime":2747.46,"body":"professionalize innovation management"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2747.46,"endTime":2751.48,"body":"within the uk, uh, you know, how we"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2747.46,"endTime":2751.48,"body":"create this collective body of knowledge."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2751.72,"endTime":2753.22,"body":"You know, how we move all of these."},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2753.415,"endTime":2757.585,"body":"These parts forward and how, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2753.415,"endTime":2757.585,"body":"you've, if you've got excited about this"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2757.585,"endTime":2763.645,"body":"balance ball, um, and kind of how to get"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2757.585,"endTime":2763.645,"body":"this right and, and starting to see, you"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2763.645,"endTime":2767.545,"body":"know, what this really looks like and the"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2763.645,"endTime":2767.545,"body":"architecture and the system and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2767.545,"endTime":2771.115,"body":"kind of, you've, you've, you've taken"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2767.545,"endTime":2771.115,"body":"the, what's it, the red pill and you can"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2771.115,"endTime":2775.585,"body":"see the matrix, uh, and you wanna come"},{"speaker":"Victoria Milne","startTime":2771.115,"endTime":2775.585,"body":"and play with us then, then get in touch."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2776.335,"endTime":2777.175,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2777.175,"endTime":2778.165,"body":"And Victoria, thank you."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2778.165,"endTime":2780.655,"body":"This is, it has been a really"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2778.165,"endTime":2780.655,"body":"good conversation and I know."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2781.015,"endTime":2784.135,"body":"That, you know, you've got such a depth"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2781.015,"endTime":2784.135,"body":"of body of knowledge yourself on this"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2784.135,"endTime":2785.575,"body":"now and been sat in so many meetings."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2785.575,"endTime":2787.945,"body":"We could talk for days on it,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2785.575,"endTime":2787.945,"body":"but I think this has been a"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2787.945,"endTime":2789.175,"body":"good, grounded conversation."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2789.175,"endTime":2792.535,"body":"I've actually learned a few things through"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2789.175,"endTime":2792.535,"body":"this that I hadn't necessarily processed"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2792.535,"endTime":2794.335,"body":"in many of the conversations as well."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2794.665,"endTime":2797.155,"body":"Um, and I think it's a great"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2794.665,"endTime":2797.155,"body":"opportunity and a good call"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2797.155,"endTime":2799.315,"body":"to action to folk that are."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2800.305,"endTime":2803.695,"body":"Want to seize the opportunity to be"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2800.305,"endTime":2803.695,"body":"right at the front, the cold face"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2803.695,"endTime":2805.165,"body":"of building this profession out."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2805.165,"endTime":2805.315,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2805.315,"endTime":2806.575,"body":"That doesn't happen very often."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2806.935,"endTime":2809.935,"body":"And so yeah, if you are, if"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2806.935,"endTime":2809.935,"body":"you're interested, then uh,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2809.935,"endTime":2811.015,"body":"get in touch with Victoria."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2811.015,"endTime":2811.405,"body":"Victoria."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2811.405,"endTime":2813.745,"body":"Thank you very, very much for this."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2813.835,"endTime":2817.135,"body":"Um, as always, everybody, if you"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2813.835,"endTime":2817.135,"body":"enjoyed this episode, don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2817.135,"endTime":2820.945,"body":"give us feedback to let us know and"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2817.135,"endTime":2820.945,"body":"hit subscribe, share with others and,"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2820.945,"endTime":2824.455,"body":"and leave us a review, and we'll be"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2820.945,"endTime":2824.455,"body":"back very soon with more conversations"},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2824.455,"endTime":2826.255,"body":"on how to unlock total innovation."},{"speaker":"Simon Hill","startTime":2826.315,"endTime":2826.705,"body":"Thank you."}]}