Total Innovation Podcast

12. Ian Small: Building a water innovation ecosystem

• Wazoku Team

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Ian is the Innovation Lead at Expedition Engineering. Building on his networking skills and interest in new technologies Ian is working to connect people and teams to deliver amazing outcomes for our clients. Ian's primary focus at the moment is developing ways to accelerate the scale up and adoption of innovations as we aim for net zero carbon.
 
 Ian’s experience in the Water sector focused on project delivery on water company framework contracts in the UK. Through building and leading network modelling teams Ian has worked with all major UK water service providers.

Ian is Convener for the Water Innovator Alliance a community acting as a hub and network for innovators, startups, scaleups and new to the water sector organisations to meet, share idea, challenges and opportunities.

 👉 Discover past innovations and approaches in the UK Water Sector

Brought to you by The Infinite Loop – Where Ideas Evolve, Knowledge Flows, and Innovation Never Stops.

Simon:

Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the Total Innovation Podcast. As always I'm your host Simon Hill. As everyone knows who listens to this podcast we're joined by a mix of different voices from across the innovation ecosystem on a global basis. Today I'm delighted to be joined by a long term friend and someone who is a change maker in a variety of different ways around the world. Ian Small, welcome to the podcast. Thank you Simon, it's great to be here today. In in putting this together, you and I had a number of different conversations about which of the many hats in this innovation world that you might want to wear, and it'll come back and talk about. of those other hats in a, in a future episode. Ian's currently, um, leading a personal change maker initiative. You know, maybe as a startup, maybe it's a venture, maybe it's, maybe it's not none of those things, right. But it's certainly the start of a, of an innovation journey, um, that some may argue started some decades ago from a, from a background perspective. Um, and it's, is. As the convener, I guess is how you want me to describe it. And, and we were looking for the right, right word to pick on all of this, of a loose collection of change makers in the water space under a new movements, a new alliance called the water innovators alliance. So as a disruptor and a change maker, welcome to the podcast. And we like innovators. We'd like disruptors in particular here, right? There's a mix of voices, but why don't you start Ian by. Okay. giving us a little bit of background to the water innovators Alliance. Like what is it? And where did it come from? And by the way, for people listening, this is the first time that either of us have done a podcast both together in person in the same room. So let's see how this one goes.

Ian Small:

Uh, thank you, Simon. So, so the water innovator Alliance has been running for about six months, six, seven months. I started it, um, in response to a number of challenges that the, water sector, uh, and innovators in that space. particularly face. Um, and I've been speaking to various startups, uh, about how we could, how we could move things forward, how we could access and drive and scale innovations. And one of the big challenges is that it's a very, they have very small voices independently, um, trying to get traction. With the regulator, with the water companies, with potential partners, it's very, it's very difficult. Um, and, and so, me and, and, and a few other like minded startups and founders, um, and we're very much in startup mode in the, in the Innovator Alliance is, is let's all come together. Let's start sharing some of our challenges, some of our opportunities, and let's see what we can do and how, how big and how fast we can grow, um, all together. Uh, and so, yeah, we've, we've, we're, we're growing rapidly. Lots of new members joining and, uh, and it's an exciting time in the water space.

Simon:

So let's, let's take a step back and thank you for that context. We'll dig into it a little bit more as we evolve the discussion. Innovation in the water sector, like for lots of people may not be really familiar with what innovation might even look like in the water sector. So let's, let's wind us back because. You fell into this weird and wonderful world of water. I guess from a degree level, right? You studied geography and landed yourself a job. And let's talk a little bit about that, that journey from your perspective. And what does innovation mean in the water sector?

Ian Small:

So, so that, no. So yeah, I've got 20 years, uh, all told in the water sector. Um, and yeah, I've got a geography degree. I was, worried about, um, the environment from, from, from way back then, mostly interested in rivers and how rivers flowed. And then, uh, I got a job worrying about how water flows down sewer pipes. Who knew, I didn't even know it was a career, career choice. And 20 years later, I'm still, still interested in it. Um, and it's still a hot topic in the, in the, in the media at the moment. Um, uh, and I've always been interested in, well, my career started with how to solve problems that water companies faced with their, with their wastewater networks. And, and I've always been interested in how we can more. effectively solve those problems and innovation is is a key part of solving those problems. And while the water sector is not perceived as a particularly innovative sector, it has delivered lots of innovations and changed lots over its lifetime and continues to do so today. And is one of those sectors where it is incrementally changing all of the time. It doesn't go through massive transformational changes as, as new technology drives it forward. It's fundamentally driven by the chemistry and the, and the, and, and the constraints of gravity that place on the system. Um, and therefore We're always looking for ways to do things more efficiently, um, and that's, and that's what, what interests me is how, how we can accelerate drive to be more efficient.

Simon:

And to, to, to sort of couch this, because I think there's a lot of innovation that can happen in the more consumer focused water space. I'm often perplexed by the fact that As a, as a nation we may, we may find water remarkably uninnovative and uninteresting, but we're more happy to pay more for a bottle of water at a gas station than we are for the gap for the litre of fuel we just put in our car. Um, but we're talking really about the turning on of a tap and having fresh water come out of it, the ability to remove dirty water. And clean it and, and, and put it through an environmental cycle, et cetera, et cetera. Predominantly here

Ian Small:

e Exactly. Yeah. And, and the fact that for 90, 99% of the time, and 99% of customers don't have to worry about it. In, in the UK we're, we're, you know, we're very, very lucky in, in this country and, and for most of the developed world that you, we, we take, we can take it for granted as customers that the, the water comes out and you flush the toilet and it, and it disappears. Um, but, but lots of people work very hard. to make that happen. It's a very, it's a very large and complex industry behind the scenes that, that doesn't, that just doesn't get recognized for, for, for most of the time until it goes wrong. And then people are up in arms.

Simon:

So there's lots of places that people can choose to innovate. And I think this is one of those, I kind of don't want to call it a niche because it's huge, right? But it sort of is a niche from a focus perspective, at least that The more you, the more you peel it back, it is, um, there may be a lot of water based puns in this episode, I apologize, but it's less of a dry topic than it feels like it could otherwise have been, and there's a lot of room for innovation. And even as you said, if you pick up the newspapers or search, search the internet on the topic, there's, there's a lot of problem areas. Right. And I suspect that for there's a lot of solution areas. So, so where's the innovation rub in this? Like what's the, what are the challenges that are faced and what, and where does the Water Innovator Alliance come into that?

Ian Small:

So there are challenges all over the, the water cycle, you know, in some, some parts we don't have enough water in some places, and sometimes, yeah, we have too much water. There's a fundamental challenges there. Uh, then there are challenges around, um, pollution, uh, and pollutants in water, in, in the water, water systems. So PFAS, the forever Chemicals is an emerging problem. Uh, we've got microplastics is another. Um, problem that, that we're, that we're trying to deal with, um, and then there's, uh, trying to make people more efficient, stop pipes leaking so much, um, dealing with overflows and pollution, um, then the wider sector sort of infrastructure challenges around decarbonisation and, um, pro biodiversity, uh, challenges that, that are all linked within the water sector and all need to be looked at. as a, as a system. And so the water innovator Alliance has, has got organizations that are looking at all kinds of components of that, whether that's physical processes or data analysis, or how do you bring AI tools to, to help make things more efficient? There's, there's, there's a whole range of different organizations within the Alliance. And how would you best summarize the goals then of the Alliance? So the Alliance is, is. there to help its members to accelerate and, and achieve the value that their, that their innovations have the potential to achieve. Um, by, by bringing, by helping them to bring them to market and to scale as, as efficiently, as quickly as possible.

Simon:

And that's a voice that they otherwise don't really have in the, in the industry right now.

Ian Small:

Yeah. So, so we created the Alliance because There was no sectoral voice that was dedicated to innovators and founders in this space. There are, there are a multitude of organizations that are all aiming to help the water sector to solve various problems. Um, but none of them are focused on innovators, um, specifically. So that's why, why we came about.

Simon:

Do you think that there's something unique about, or at least if not unique, but fairly unique about the water sector that means that it's. Different than other sectors in terms of its innovation challenge. I mean, you mentioned one example, which is the water is where the water is. Right. And I guess it isn't where it isn't on the other side of it and when it is and when it isn't, but there are other parallels in other, in other sectors that have similar, similar challenges to that. So something specific, do you think to the, to the water sector that make it harder to drive innovation through or harder to get real scaled impact? And I asked that question. I was talking to. Someone who's similar to you was kind of accidentally built their career in the, uh, in, in, in the water sector. And one of the things that stuck with me in that, from that conversation was, you know, a number of the issues. Were the issues when I, when I came into the sector 30 years ago, like PFAS was an issue and it's still an issue now and leakage was an issue and it's still an issue now, now we've got incrementally better and better and better, I think, and even the data, I think, suggests that even if you read the newspapers, you wouldn't believe it to be true, um, and that there are a number of things we just take for granted now that, yeah, we all should hold ourselves to higher account. So is there an innovation problem? Is it? Okay. One that we could make significant leaps with, with, with doing things better is a, it's kind of a big pointy question of all of this. And why, why does it move so slowly as a sector, do you think? So,

Ian Small:

so there are lots of problems, there are lots of opportunities and bringing those two together is, is part of the challenge. And then the next part of the challenge is how to get them used. As effectively and efficiently as possible within the rules that the water companies in this country have to work within. And that's, and those rules are often set by the regulator and we have this five year regulatory cycle where customer bills are set and investment plans are set and therefore You have to time your innovation delivery with, uh, the cycle that the water companies and the regulator are working to. Otherwise, you may have to wait another five years before you can, before your innovation company implemented. Um, and, and so yeah, there's that, that regulatory challenge. And then there's things about understanding the risk, um, uh, and, and people's acceptance of perceived acceptance of risk. Uh, there's lots of perception and. Somebody, somebody else is driving a challenge rather than rather than it being a real risk or real issue. Um, and then, um, there's, there's breaking through the incumbent. There's a, there's a, there's a very strong. Water sector. There's a very strong supply chain that has always delivered. You know, there are a number of Recognized players in the market and trying to be a new player in that market is very hard to break into

Simon:

Interesting and I I said I suspect that does resonate across sectors, but it's quite pronounced I guess particularly in a A water center where you can name all the, you know, you can name all the axes in it, probably, you know, in not too long a list either. Right. And they've been there for, for quite a long time. So if we look really then at sort of the water innovators alliance, and we look at, you know, we've started this venture, you've got people coming, everyone seems to be really, really interested in the opportunity space that's there. Like, how would you, how would you categorize that for anyone that might be interested in getting involved? What does that opportunity space look like? And. What does the future look like for, for, from a water innovation, Water Innovators Alliance perspective?

Ian Small:

So, so it's free to join. Um, we are in a, in a growth phase at the moment. We, we want more voices to, to help us, um, understand what the challenges are and to allow us to bring more solutions to, to more water companies. Um, we are. actively looking at how we can help our members at the moment and work out what, what the most effective way of, of, of doing that is. Um, so we're looking at what events should we be, should we, should we be running events? Should we be proactively, um, reaching out towards companies with specific solutions? Should we be, um, trying all kinds of different, all kinds of different ways. We're trying to work out what the, what the most effective routes are. Um, and we're not, we're not wedded to any, platform or solution or way of working, um, we're, we're looking for, for opportunities. So, um, we're, but the more people we have and the more, the more members than the more things we can do, then the more opportunity there is to, to help people make the, make the leap to, to get in their solutions to scale.

Simon:

And people with any sorts of solutions pertinent to the, to the water industry, or are there specific areas that are, You think, you know, there's real money there or there's real appetite to actually do something within the, within the water sector.

Ian Small:

So the water sector at the moment is, is, um, is, is open to lots of new ideas. So that I don't think there are, if you've got a solution that's around how to build, build assets faster, or you've got a solution that's around stopping leakage or analyzing data, the, the, there are opportunities in all of these, in all of these spaces. Um, there's, there's obviously the, the ones that are at the front of the mind in the media at the moment. Um, but, but the, the water sector does so many things that there are, if you've got, if you've got something that is, remotely water related, there is an opportunity within the water sector at the moment.

Simon:

You close your eyes and I know we're very much in experimentation and market listening mode from sort of lean startup type thinking of this thing, but what does this look like in 12 months time, do you think?

Ian Small:

It's, it's an exciting, it's an exciting opportunity in 12 months time. Um, I think we'll be, we'll be, we'll be much, much stronger as an organization. The, the, the links that we'll have made between the startups, um, allowing them to access the value by, by partnering with other startups, I think is probably where we'll, we'll see the most, the most value generated. So where you've got, uh, complementary solutions within startups, then brick coming together. And then being able to provide a bigger and better offering to the market, I think will be, will be where we'll see the biggest, biggest growth. Uh, and the most success from from the Alliance, and I'm, I'm pretty sure you'll, you'll see that we'll, we'll be much more professional as an outfit in 12 months time, uh, with, with websites and, and, and events running regularly that, that will, that will be useful to, to startups and, and, And incumbents as well.

Simon:

And for now then if people want to, want to get involved or learn more, the best place to go?

Ian Small:

The best place to go is LinkedIn, and look up the, the Water Innovators Alliance LinkedIn page. There's, there's all the information you need there. There's the form and how to join, or reach out to me on, through, through the socials. And we'd be more than happy to welcome you. Absolutely.

Simon:

And I think, look, the best innovations starts at these points of inflection, right? There's a, there's a real need. I know from your perspective, this came out of Of a number of different blogs and points of research and getting really frustrated at the stuff happening, but it's not, it's not quite having the impact yet that that we think it should. And so, you know, finally, I think you just threw your pen down and said, fine, if it's not going to happen, I'm going to start this thing and see what happens,

Ian Small:

right? Exactly. Yeah, there's, there's, there's only so long you can sit there and accept. The same old things, watching the same thing happen over and over again to, to innovations and trials and projects. And, and, and yeah, that's driven me to, to frustration. And this is, this is how I've unleashed that frustration on the, on the sector. Uh, and hopefully I'm helping, helping everybody to, to achieve more by, by, by doing that. by convening this group. Well,

Simon:

congrats on taking a step forward, and thank you for coming and sharing that story with us today. I would encourage anybody who's interested in just understanding more about the water sector globally. I think if we step back and think about it, water is the most precious commodity we have. On planet Earth, people that follow WSOCU closely will know that we've done a lot of different innovation calls and challenges around the number of the different topic areas that Ian has referenced today. And water scarcity, water cleanliness is going to be the thing that, that really defines our species, I think moving forward. And so it's super important. It is, it is a lot more than it seems on the surface. It goes deeper. I'm going to try no more, no more water puns. I apologize. And thank you, Ian. I like getting disruptors on here. I like getting people that are prepared to challenge what hair is. Why a difficult diggy problem to get into, right? It's a sector that really doesn't want to really change. And as I've said, these problems have kind of been pervasive for quite a long time and probably will be for some time to come. So I'm excited to be on this adventure with you and. Anyone else that wants to get involved, please, yeah, come and find Ian, come have a conversation and get in touch with the Water Innovators Alliance. Thank you very much. for having me, Simon. It's been great fun. My pleasure. As always, thank you for listening. Um, we take your feedback. If there are requests of guests or if you'd like to come on the podcast, please feel free to reach out. We're booking through the end of the year at this point in time. I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. Please hit subscribe and give us the feedback if you have. Once again, thank you very much for listening.

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