46. Vladislav Belousov: How to be a successful solver

Vladislav grew up in Russia. He left to pursue a doctorate in Italy. He has worked in industrial automation, certified himself across robotics and control systems, served an internship at Bosch Rexroth, and built a career working on the kind of complex engineering problems that most people would find impenetrable. And then, sometime in 2024, he heard a rumour. About a place — almost mythical in the telling of it — where companies with genuinely hard problems would post them openly, and pay strangers to solve them. He was suspicious. He went looking anyway. And then he won. Three times. On problems ranging from glass recycling robotics in Italy, to crop protein vulnerability at elevated temperatures for the Gates Foundation, to reinforcing underground electrical substations. Three wins, from a standing start, in under two years.

Transcript

Intro 0:00

What's it worth? Uh uh. Uh-oh. Uh-uh. What's it worth? Uh-uh. Uh-oh.

Simon Hill 0:09

Welcome everyone to the Total Innovation Podcast. As always, I'm your host, Simon Hill. One of the ideas at the heart of this podcast, and quite honestly, at the heart of everything that I work on every single day, is that the best answer to a hard problem is rarely where you'd expect to find it. It might be sitting in a university in a different country, in a discipline that seems completely unrelated, in the mind of someone who's never set foot in your industry. That is the promise of open innovation. Or at least that is the theory. Today's guest is the proof. He grew up in Russia. He left to pursue a doctorate in Italy. He's worked in industrial automation, certified himself across robotics and control systems, served an internship at Bosch Rex Ruth, and built a career working in the kind of complex engineering problems that most people would find impenetrable. And then he heard a rumor about a place almost mythical in the telling of it, where companies with genuinely hard problems would post them openly and pay strangers to solve them. He was, of course, suspicious. He went away looking anyway, and he participated. And then he won multiple times on problems ranging from glass recycling robotics in Italy to crop protein vulnerability at elevated temperatures for the Gates Foundation to reinforcing underground electrical substations. Multiple wins from a standing start in the last few years. And that puts him in a very small group globally. And it makes him exactly the kind of person that I wanted to talk to on this podcast. And with that, my guest today is Vladislav Belislav. Vlad, welcome to the podcast.

Vladislav Belousov 1:56

Thank you, Simon. Thank you for this uh very deep introduction. Um yeah, thank you for having me. Um today, you know, we will discuss about um my story uh and uh some of my part, how I um how I found the Innocentive platform. And it also very interesting, I suppose, because um when you um when you're creating this platform you you're you're always talking about the innovation and I suppose this word uh innovation it was the you know the the global attractor for me when I found your platform because um maybe I can say that the engineering and innovation uh was in in my life from my even from my childhood because um almost uh every day uh I go with my grandfather to the garage, and you know my grandfather was uh the very good uh Soviet engineer, and uh whole garage was uh was uh full of uh some interesting details, uh some micro schemes, uh some prisms, and you know, from maybe when I was seven, uh I started to go with them with him, and uh I see everything, all of that stuff, and uh every day he explained me uh how it works, uh explained me there's um Newton laws, and uh you know uh so I'm I'm deeply engineered from uh from my early early stage.

Simon Hill 3:43

From an early age, exactly. And I think that there's a lot of people listening who will be part of the community that you're a part of who would really resonate with that as well, right? In in speaking to various members of that community over the years and you know, having the privilege sometimes of them letting me look behind the camera at the backgrounds that they have. It sounds a little bit like your grandfather's um you know workshop or garage as you describe it, but he may have called it his workshop, um, with all these different, all these different schemas and devices and gadgets and experiments being run in a variety of different topic areas. Um, but you also mentioned, you know, as I said in the introduction, your background coming, you know, coming from Russia and as I said, now finding yourself as a, you know, having studied a doctorate in Italy. Maybe let's just talk a little bit about that journey, right? So from your your early days, learning from the great mentor of your grandfather to to sort of bringing us up to speed today, right? From Russia to Italy. And and that journey shapes an individual, it shapes a mind, it shapes uh a curiosity, but also I think a determination to get things done. So maybe just just just share a little bit about you know about your background and your journey up until today, and then we'll dig into the inner sensitive story a little bit more as well.

Vladislav Belousov 5:03

Yeah, sure. Um so as I said, my grandfather was uh my engine uh my teacher engineer, and uh of course I decided to go on this way, and um I was uh successfully accepted to the um uh Russian university in Moscow, and uh it was the um civil engineering uh university, and it was you know the first um interesting combination of uh my study because uh I was accepted on the uh automation technology program in the University of Civil Engineering, and you know, I expected uh to see some uh super innovative um devices like uh construction 3D printer or some automotive uh robots on the construction side. Um but uh as uh you know my expectations didn't match with the reality and uh all of um innovation it's inside the civil engineering, it was like uh you know smart house when you can use the I don't know, smart light, smart uh music uh security systems, and so all of that stuff. But uh, of course, I was curious about to find something for me, and um my second course of the university, I I to be honest, I almost uh lose my hope to find something. Uh, but exactly in this moment, uh, the university invites the uh German professor uh from the uh HTV Berlin. Uh that the name of this professor is uh Knut Hartenstein, and you know uh I really thankful to him because um for me it was like very big events and very big surprise because usually uh you know um our university uh is not inviting some speakers or professors uh abroad. And uh for me it was actually a good match because I worked in the Bosch Record and uh I have also the some base of the uh German engineers or German engineering, and uh in that moment I suppose I've seen the difference between the uh you know Russian educational system and the German uh educational system because um he was super friendly uh and he read the course of the mechatronics, and mechatronics it's like uh the next stage after the automation, and uh you know for me it was super interesting, and I and I catch it. And uh I said that wow for me it's super interesting, I must go to this course. And um on our first meeting in in in a group of automations uh automation students. Uh he uh he gave us the some uh very um well it's what it was not a big, but it's a smart um smart um production camera uh inside the some uh processor with the machine learning or inside of this camera. And uh he was super excited, you know, to to do something with that camera. And um I remember that moment, like he asked, hey guys, uh who wants to work with me and who wants to to develop something using that camera? And it was you know totally silent silence. Uh that uh no no nobody, I don't know why, but nobody would like to to work in that in that project. But after that, uh you know, I uh I waiting, I I was waiting the end uh of this lecture. I go to to him and said, Um Mr. Hartenstein, I I'm super excited uh to and I really work, I really I really want to work with you and uh let's do something very great. And uh uh he was also very happy because I was you know just one student here um who agreed to work uh on that some project, and you know it's without no uh how to say no some uh positive uh let's say changes for for my uh education. It's just an interesting project, it's not like uh completing my degree or something like. Like right now. And uh two days ago he gave me the uh English instruction, and uh he said, Okay, you're totally free, you can make whatever you want. And uh I have the three weeks for creating something interesting. So, in after that moment, in three days, I call him and uh I said, Okay, I've done. He said, like, uh what wait, it's it just the three days ago. Yeah, I give you three weeks. I said, Yeah, yeah, I already complete the project. And it was um I take the camera uh like that way, and um I have the some you know schemes inside our laboratory uh of automation inside the university, and I just grab some uh grab some part, grab some schemes, and uh learned system inside the camera to analyze this. Uh, for instance, this is like uh uh big broken scheme, this is uh small uh correct uh scheme, and uh it and I simulate conveyor, let's say by myself using the just one camera uh to you know to put the broken scheme on the camera, and on the monitor we we see the uh in uh output, like uh okay, this broken or it's correct, and something like that. And I literally, you know, live in three days in in this uh laboratory and uh because you know it was I I realized that it was my chance, my chance to grab uh exactly the way what I would like to have. And uh so after that, yeah, uh the the professor comes uh to to to me and see all of that stuff, see that it really worked. And after that, uh we goes to the director of the you know uh our department of automation, and uh uh uh Knut professor told me that told him that uh look he created for three days and uh maybe we can move forward because uh we we we have the one month for creating something new. And here in that moment, uh the our director gave me the access to the robot manipulator. You know, uh I don't know why, I don't know how, but this uh robot exists in our uh automation uh department in our laboratory. And uh they use this robot just for one thing. It's like you know, uh demonstrate on the open days uh at the university that look we have we have the robots and this robot can uh grab and sort some details. Of course, for the you know civil engineering and construction it's a bit useless, but it's super interesting for the uh freshman uh when when he uh when he usually uh works something uh let's say intellectual and movements machine. Yeah. And also for me, it was the you know the hook. But I realized that this robot has a lot of um potential inside. And uh I immediately realized that we can create the 3D printer, but for the construction industry, and uh so I had the access from my uh director of of the of our department of automation, and uh so I just started to work and uh you know we we made the second project with the exactly the uh 3D printer for uh for the construction using using this robot. And uh I'll I also successfully completed and I realized that um I realized my maybe mistake uh when I when I just started to uh to study at the university. Uh I tried to find innovation, but in that moment I realized that I I don't need to find an innovation, I have to create the innovations. And yeah, after that, you know, my uh my let's say ambitions and my um interests and my skills uh started you know tremendously grow up. And uh yeah, I really thankful to the all of the people that you know uh gave me this opportunity. Uh and of course, yeah, I uh successfully you know complete my dissertation uh inside the university, and I and I and it was about the robotics, robotics on the construction industry for monitoring the progress of the buildings uh in inside the construction. Uh and um yeah.

Simon Hill 15:52

After it's been it's been it's it's a big personal journey of discovery to to work out, yeah. I think there's lots of people, you know, where wherever they might be in their professional lives and personal journeys will be able to cast their minds back to that period of time between school and sort of fully formed professional life where it's pretty unsure, right? You're trying to figure something out, and you know, you've got this super interesting backdrop of you know your grandfather as the teacher and knowing where where your interest lied and your intrigue, your intrigue lay, but not necessarily what was going to give you the energy to go and apply, right? You get there and you know, we'll all have I can certainly cast my mind back to university days and being surprised and perhaps disappointed at what it was versus what I'd hoped it would be in in any given discipline. Um the theory is always important, but you've got to find that sort of applied practice. And then and then when you bring in this innovation layer of, you know, in a world that's kind of given you the problems, it's given you the the need to know I have to invent them, I have to find them myself, I have to spot opportunities where perhaps other people don't see them, is a uh is a big personal journey. Um is that part of what led you to move as well? Sorry? Is that partly what led you to move countries as well? Was the was was was that sort of personal exploration um as well as studying?

Vladislav Belousov 17:21

Uh yeah. After that, you know, I was invited uh to work uh in the um Skolkov. Uh Skolkov, it's like the you know the Russian silicon volley. And uh I was like, I don't remember exactly, but maybe 2024, 2025. Uh and um it for me it was like I already uh I yeah and uh I worked in the startup and we um we was the first uh company in Russia who exactly uh you know integrate the quadrupted robotic systems inside the industrial uh industrial field because um it was the first days when you know when when the uh all of that company like United started to develop their own quadrupted robots, but it was in the first time it was just for fun. Uh and uh but we decided to integrate all of that smart system inside the uh industrial field like oil and gas companies like uh energy companies, and uh I realized that you know maybe that's a super good way for me in Russia, but maybe I have to go next. Um and to be honest, it was the it was the extremely hard decision, I mean it was the choice. Uh I I will stay uh in Skolkov or I go uh I uh I move forward to move abroad to study something new. And um it was also my dream, I suppose, even from from the school uh to study abroad, uh also you know, in the some some countries uh to see the world, and I I was uh it was a super big dream for me, and I realized that you know I uh in in this case I I make I made all of uh interesting things, but I have to move forward. And uh yeah, I decided to go to I decided to go uh to to the next stage of my life, something like that. And yeah, I was uh I chose exactly the program like robotics engineering in Italy, and uh Italians was super super friendly uh to me and you know invited uh to their master degree program of the robotics engineering, and yeah, after that I uh I thought that it will be it will be the good way to grow as a professional in this field, but you know, again my expectation and reality it was a bit different, and of course I uh I didn't see some super innovative program uh of robotics in Italy. Maybe you know it's it's not a problem of Italy, it's not a problem of the university, it's uh uh it's a problem of like uh educational system as well. Because um for instance, even now, you know, we have the super booster like artificial intelligence, and uh if you right now go to the university and try to study the AI in some I don't know, bachelor's or master's degree program, in the in four years all of that knowledge could be you know absolutely useless, and um that's that's the tricky thing. Uh but yeah, uh in Italy, you know, I found uh exactly the I found the way uh uh well not the way, I found exactly the let's say the the the point when I don't know what I have to do next. And uh because you know I was uh I've been in the Skullco, we have the you know all of the drones, robots, super innovative every week, so we have a demands, and here I move to Italy, and I see just theoretical part of you know how to build the uh kinematics of robots, and I realized that wait guys, I Already know how to do that, and I don't need these formulas and all of that stuff because I worked with a robot in Russia, and so yeah, it was like the hard period of uh who I am right now. Uh, and um yeah, I started to think that probably I have another my dream to to try myself in in some you know biotech or medicine or healthcare or whatever, because usually I faced with a situation like uh yes, I'm uh yes, I'm a good engineer, but sometimes I cannot uh fix the problem which requires you know the knowledge in the uh in the health or knowledge in the human body, and it was it it could be the nice second second part of my uh growing as a as a specialist. And you know, in this case, uh I was accepted to the um uh uh program of the you know as a research assistant in the Italian Institute of Technology, and I realized that it was very interesting but super super hard uh to to you know to shift to to to make this shift from the automation to the biology because uh inside the biology, for instance, the moleculars don't know about the X and Y coordinates, right? They they they don't care about it. That's absolutely different world and maybe even harder than than automation. But um at that moment when I when it was you know the let's say uh bifurcation point, and uh yeah, I I uh I started to think who I am, what I have to do here, and uh what is my next goal. And I remembered, I rem uh you know it was like in one day I remember my child, I remember my childhood, I remember my uh university, I remember my current stage, and I remember some uh the the gold legend uh in our university that we had the some professor, uh very respectful and very smart professor who visited the our university maybe two times in a year, uh, and for just for the you know reading the lectures. And uh it was the legend about this professor that he's he's very smart, he's very respectful, and he is you know um doing the great and big projects uh just you know alone. Uh and he knows about some platform where he grab uh the this project and you know successfully complete it and uh you know raise a lot of money and uh live it uh super happy. So, and you know, in the in this case I realized that I also sometimes, maybe I don't know, five years ago or six years ago, I I've seen your platform. I've it in it at that moment it was the you know Vazoku crowd. Uh and uh yeah. I uh I uh I started to uh try to find uh this pro this platform because I I I um I know that exists, but I don't remember the name, you know. And uh, you know, um when I started to Google it, it was not so easy to find it because um I don't know why, and honestly, because you're not quite sure what you're looking for either.

Simon Hill 26:14

It's this mythical platform that you know speaks to this uh very specialist but sort of cross-disciplined community of people that is you know promised you know offering you opportunities to to get into the very applied parts of some of the technology the deep tech scientific type problem spaces that you're talking about. It's like, well, what do you what do you go look for even in that in that in that world, right? It's like what am I what am I asking the search engine or now the AI to find for me? Is a piece of that as as as well. Um and yeah, and you telling me that that story when we first met, um, which was face to face in in Italy, um, and we'll get into some of the kind of why that why that came about piece. Um, I love this story, right? You know, this idea that that you know, the professor on this journey that you've already taken us through, right, from where you started to where you are now in your in your in your life in your life in the narrative that we're weaving here. Um and now this moment of like, well, how do I apply what I'm doing and how do I find it? And and and another key person in your life, right, I think, you know, in some small way, reminds you or mentions this thing, this platform, that you then uh you then eventually find your way to, right? And that you uh, I guess, I guess, as you told me, were somewhat skeptical and suspicious of because it, you know, it feels quite quite like a grand promise to offer thousands and thousands of uh of dollars or more, you know, for for for doing this work. So let's just talk a little bit around that, yeah. Your early early discovery and your early experiences of working in this new world versus the world that you were kind of in right now, which is much more theory-based in uh in the in the application of your knowledge.

Vladislav Belousov 28:01

Yeah, and exactly, you know, when I found uh your platform and uh when I checked the challenges uh which uh was published at the at this moment, um I found the project from the uh at we A exactly about the robotics, exactly about for my skills, and you know, exactly matched with uh with my interest. And I've said okay, uh I suppose it's super obvious, and it's a sign for me, and I have to participate, and you know, for me also uh it was the um totally new totally new way how I usually work because you know uh usually I worked as um uh employee and uh may I have a salary, blah blah blah. But here I was like the solver, and I I really like the um the philosophy of your platform. It's like you know, you could you can be uh from any country, you can be you can have any experience, you can be wherever wherever you want, and um you can you can make it, you can solve uh the problem which uh which usually companies you know published on the uh on this frontier line of innovations. It's like maybe you know the the power of uh crowd uh it's it's super huge. And uh sometimes you can find the some really good and professional person who can solve that problem uh you know by yourself and uh being alone. I mean with without any help, without any team. And it was actually super motivation, super motivation for me. And uh all of that factors you know unite in in the situation. When I uh started to read uh all of that project, I realized that I have all skills uh for uh for making the super successful uh solution for the uh at way. And uh so I'm just not thinking about you know uh I'm I was not thinking about the price, I was not thinking about you know if I won or not. I just realized that I can make something really good thing for that company and for the guys, and um and of course, yeah, I had you know uh like more than 10 years of experience inside the engineering fields, any different mechanical software, robotics, uh blah blah blah, and um all of that um all of that experience uh united in in this one application, you know. Yeah. Um and for me it was really good and big news that you know I realized that I won uh this uh competition. I was super excited to to to hear that. And uh yeah, after that, you know, it's like was the it's like the quantum jumping from the position which I uh which I had uh before and uh which I've you know been after after I won the competition.

Simon Hill 31:51

Yeah, and I think I think also I think it was your first time entering. It was quite nice in many ways that as you came back to, you know, as you came to discover this opportunity, that the you know almost the perfect challenge for you was sat there waiting, right? It could it could have been a a month earlier or a month later, and you may have seen something totally different or missed that opportunity. So timing as always in life makes a huge difference to to everything um thereafter. And and as a consequence, you know, you were very successful in your first challenge, which is very rare, very rare, actually. Um, and I um and and partly you could argue that's because it was an area that was perfectly applied to your to your knowledge bank. I said in my introduction to today's episode, and I've said many times before, that you know the best ideas often come from adjacencies, but those adjacencies aren't just adjacency of skill sets, they're also adjacency of access and community and and and place and people, right? And so it was very unlikely that you would have been found by someone going out and looking for you necessarily, right, in this space, but you found them and were able to apply the skills and knowledge. Um, but you've also subsequently participated in other things that are perhaps less within your sweet spots as well, right? So kind of both sides of the of the of the conversation. And I love those examples just as much, right? And so, you know, maybe it's worth talking about, you know, what what happens that brought you back in, right? And to engage in in something that was not quite so obviously designed for Vlad, like the first challenge was, right? And in terms of uh, you know, give me more of those and I can do wonderful things. But um, but some of these other areas were were quite different and continue to be quite different, I think, looking at the the areas that you choose to participate in as well. And so maybe from that lesson of you know success and discovery and becoming part of a very elite group of you know first-time successful solvers, right? That's a huge badge of honor. Congratulations and testament to the background and the learning and the skills that you have. Um, many might feel very intimidated by that, right? Go, well, I'm not, you know, I don't have all of those things and I can't therefore participate in this thing. It's it's not for me. I think that's not that's not the message we want to put across from your side either, right? And so maybe maybe talk about some of these other experiments and other product challenges and programs that you've got involved in and still been successful in various ways with um that that are that are further further further away from your your core discipline.

Vladislav Belousov 34:44

Yeah, and you know, of course, uh that's uh thank you for uh you know for for mention that uh it was uh it it could be super rare that you know that uh I I won the challenge the challenge uh in the first uh my I won my first uh challenge uh on your platform. And yeah, if we're talking about the experiments, of course, uh for instance I won in the three projects uh till that moment, right? And um it's it's also mean that uh let's say my application was rejected in maybe in the next uh 10 uh projects, and uh it's like I don't want to you know to show the part of just the success because uh it's uh the second part of the uh let's say rejections of some different things, and it it also inside these projects which was rejected, it it's like also have the automation, also has the some uh healthcare, also has the bioinformatics fields, and uh it's like how to say when when I uh when I won the first project, of course, I started to I I realized that I I can do more, and uh I started to participate you know in in a lot of projects. It's uh mentioned with my field, it's not mentioned with my fields. Uh I I just want I I just try to, you know, I just try to um I just try to participate because I have an idea how to make it better. So and uh if I feel that I can you know give the value for the companies, uh I started to do that. If I feel that it's not for me, I I mean it's not like not for me, for instance. Um that is exactly what what you mentioned, it's like uh the biotech, right? Or project with the uh proteins and uh bioinformatics fields. It was also you know, combination with the research and programming. And the tricky thing is that I won uh uh it's like you know, it was I as I remember the third third place or something like that with the Gates Foundation. Uh and the thing is that at that moment I even didn't know how to program it, you know. Uh I I mean, um of course I know how to program, for instance, the robotics coordination or movements or trajectory of blah blah blah, but I had no idea how to work, how to program you know with the bioinformatics field with the molecules with the proteins, and for me it was totally uh totally new uh big universe. But um at the moment I work at the research assistant uh in in our in Italian institute. And it was, to be honest, the small, how to say, small you know, scientific uh debate about my dissertation at the end of the of my study. And I said that look, I I said to the scientific community, uh, look, I had an experience in the automation robotics AI. Uh I I can build the really good platform, and I see the ways how to connect the artificial intelligence uh with uh with uh what we are doing in our laboratory. I mean it was the a lot of things with the spectrometers, uh how to how to check the uh spectra of of the molecules, and um it's you know it's um a bit a bit difficult. I um we have no time for for uh describe it, but uh uh I uh I implement the idea of how I can uh connect it. Artificial intelligence and what we are doing exactly in our lab. And they maybe rejected my ideas, uh, ideas three times, uh and it was like six months, you know, we're debating and arguing, yes, I can, no, you cannot. And uh and I said, okay, uh let's let's uh let's check the Simon platform and uh find some project, and it was exactly you know the Gates Foundation project with the uh and exactly uh about the protein uh proteins, uh exactly about the molecular structure, bioinformatics, and analyzing all of that big data inside of it because you know the protein um it's usually just the one protein, and we have the proteoms of the uh humans of the plants, uh all of you know all of that stuff. And I said, okay, uh if you are rejecting my ideas, I try to implement my ideas outside and you know inside your platform, and uh so for me it was the second sign that like I can even work with uh with that field of the bioinformatics, biotech, and uh all of that stuff. And after that, you know, it was the third uh increase in my uh ambitions and uh also skills, and now you know when when when someone told me that introduce myself, I don't know how to introduce myself because I am uh you know, I worked as a mechanical engineer, software engineer, robotics engineer, biomedical engineer, and uh well, maybe I'm just the engineer, you know.

Simon Hill 41:12

In yeah, maybe there's an engineer, yeah. Yeah, polymath engineer. There you go.

Vladislav Belousov 41:17

Yeah, yeah. And you know, um maybe for instance, if we can, you know, uh shift a bit to their um recommendations to the other solvers.

Simon Hill 41:30

Um yeah, exactly. That's where I was gonna take us in terms of applying that. So I think for the last last little bit of the comp of the discussion, which is which has been fascinating, right? And and um and and really honest and and and sort of you know quite deeply personal. So thank you for it. Is yeah, sort of advice for others and and then a little bit around what the future looks like from your perspective as well, and then I'll kind of wind us to a close, but but you know, take your time and share those, share those thoughts with with the listeners.

Vladislav Belousov 42:00

Yeah, of course. Uh you know, for instance, if we're talking about the future, I am uh deeply convinced that it will be super positive. And uh I uh I'm not agree with all of that uh people who know that I don't know, AI destroys our worlds, uh uh you know all of that stuff because I realize I know that right now we are in the point of the history when we uh when uh we have a lot of actually ways how our uh how we can develop our future, but the the the the thing is still uh the same. It's uh we developing our future and we developing the innovations in in our future. And if you're you know think about it positive, you're we you will create the positive technologies, and um that's actually it could be the first maybe my advice to the solvers like to think uh positive uh when you when you work on the projects which you choose on on the innocentive platform. I mean, like for instance, sometimes I use it for the biotech. Uh, for instance, the the um the problem required to try uh try some way, uh try to find some way uh for you know organizing the delivery of the some molecules uh for the new way to uh to heal the some part of the body, for instance, something like that. And I started to think about this person uh. I started to think about this patient, I mean who will uh receive this um uh this let's say healing new healing technology, new medical technology for uh for him and you know I I I I started to think about what I can what I can change, what I can do for him, and uh what I what I can do for him some you know in a positive way, for instance, for not uh destroying some critical uh part of his body, you know, critical part of the health uh systems, blood systems, nervous system, etc. And um yeah, maybe that's that's a good perspective to start. And the second point, maybe I can mention that you know you have to have the sum experience and vision. Uh for instance, you know, if I have no experience if in some very deep details, um like for instance, ExxonMobil, right? Uh they have the they had the um project with the polymers one year ago, and I have no idea I have no idea what exactly they want you know to do. And I started to analyze, I started to think uh what is it? I started to you know read some books, uh of course discussing it with uh some AI models, but uh but my uh experience was not enough for this in general, and uh maybe it was the one reason with which I was exactly in this project, I was rejected. I mean my my application was rejected. So maybe we have to think about you know to find a good match between the project and your uh background and your vision. And the third part which I uh discovered after I won the project with the proteins and you know for for the bioinformatics and biotech, it's like we have to think like we have to think about how the system works. It could be the automation system, it could be the robotic system, it could be the uh healthcare system, body system. That's really very important knowledge, and actually you cannot you cannot find it at the university, you cannot find it at school, you cannot find it uh uh in some you know general way when you um when you learn something new in in these you know basic places like school and university. You have to find it by yourself. And for instance, personally for me, uh I started from the Aristotle uh from their logic, uh their knowledge of logic, because um it was maybe you know my my um how to say my another part of interest because uh I read the critic of uh pure reason of Kant when I was 16, and uh yeah, it's it was uh crazy for my teachers, but you know um sometimes I uh after that moment I realized that we have the some really interested uh interesting uh different uh books, and I I know how to find it some different approach to learn and study something new. And uh yeah, I started to read the Aristotle of their logic, and you know, after that I realized why exactly the educational system works like that way, that we have the truth, we have a false, and I have to be honest, I have uh I had the many many situations when I when I uh for instance calculate the tasks right on the physics on the math math uh uh course, I calculated something in a different way. Uh it was very long, yeah, but it was a very different way. I had the same result. I mean the the the um the good answer. I mean it it it was exactly true, uh, following the logic of Aristotle, right? And uh but the teachers told me that no, it's uh super complicated why you did why you did that, and you know it's it's actually false. I said, wait, I the the result is actually not uh not not false, it's true. And uh they told me that no, um it has you have you can you can find the better way, and you know it was a lot of a lot of situations when I mentioned uh when I when I faced with that uh situations, and I realized that despite of the true and false, we have something you know in the middle. And it was uh it was exactly the point when you try to find something new. You have the it's like uh it's you know, maybe I'm I'm right now talking it it it's not so um not so clear, but I I mean between true and false, you can find uh some another value, and this another value exactly the value where you can find the new way how to solve it. Yeah. And I suppose this, let's say, rule of how I uh how I started to think it's extremely important when you work with uh innovation projects, like all projects in the Innocentive platform.

Simon Hill 50:39

I think uh I think you're crystal clear as well, right? And um there's a there's a podcast we'll do later in this season, hopefully, um on the topic of the half-lives, the facts, um, as well. And so that in that space between what's true and what's false, in the kind of binary world of of you know black and white, good and bad, true and false, lays a whole world of, as you've said, innovation, discovery, uh, false positives, false negatives, and everything in between. And I think that's the that's the deep thinker in you, it's the systems thinker in you and and and everything else. So I'm uh I'm gonna wind us in because I think you and I could talk deeply all day. And I love listening to your to your to your comments, and I like watching your brain work as you go, right? Um, for people that have been listening to this, this is you know, it's the first time you've done one of these types of discussions. English is not your first language, as we discussed previously. You don't live in a in a primarily English-speaking country in Italy either. And so doing this um in English for the first time and being really honest and vulnerable with us is is hugely appreciated, right? I think this has been a brilliant conversation. And uh, and thank you very, very, very much for that. I'm sure people will find it accessible. And uh, you know, I'm sure you're you're very happy for folks to reach out and connect with you on LinkedIn or whatever if they want to pick up afterwards as well. Um, hopefully you can also see why I was so keen to bring you onto the podcast and tell what it's a slightly different story than many of the others that we have, but I try and weave in these very human, um, you know, innovators at the grassroots level stories as much as I possibly can. So from my side, thank you. Thank you, Vlad, very, very much. Um, hopefully others are inspired by you as well, but but I certainly am. So thank thank you on a on a number of different levels.

Vladislav Belousov 52:31

Thank you for Simon. Thank you for what uh you're doing for for for everything that you know, because you also have a big mission uh uh when you you know developing this uh platform of in a sense of because you give give me an opportunity to work with that project, and uh you also gave uh some companies opportunities to solve their problems. And uh I think that's a perfect match, and that is how the future economy will work in the very near future.

Simon Hill 53:05

Yeah, so normally I put a close on this, but I think you did a beautiful job for me. And so, Vlad, once again, thank you very much. For people that are listening who aren't sure about Innocentive and what we're talking about. Check it out at inascentive.com. Um, I hope everyone has been left a little bit more curious by this, a little bit more inspired by the journey that was shared, but also the opportunities that are in front of us if we do keep a uh you know, an open mind, a lifelong learner mindset in terms of the way that are there. This this constantly asking questions of why and does it have to be like this? And you know, what from my background, which doesn't have to be a specialism, could be a generalism. What can I bring forward that might, as you put nicely, be an idea of how to make this better, right? In all of the things we've said, and from Aristotle to to polymers to everything else, that very nice, simple sentence of what can I bring that might be able to help make this better is, you know, you could you talk about it as a big mission. That really is that it really is the mission, right? Is to try and make things better. So everybody, thank you as always for listening. Um, I appreciate the time that people, both guests and listeners, give to all of this. We've got and have had a number of incredible guests from this series, and they keep coming thick and fast as we go. So click click subscribe, click follow, keep sharing, keep giving me feedback as you go. We have a new home for the podcast, as well as all the usual different places at the infinite loop.co, infinite loop.co, um where you can pick up the content from the podcast and a variety of other different bits of uh insight and thought leadership that that we're trying to bring to keep everybody curious, keep everybody thinking. And therefore, until next time, stay curious, and I'll see you all again very soon.

Intro 54:53

What's it worth? Uh-uh, uh-oh, uh-oh. What's it worth? Uh-oh, uh-oh.