How to grow a strong company culture

What does it really take to build a strong company culture—one that actually lives beyond a slide deck?

In this episode, we sit down with Nicola Saner, CEO of Chorus, whose career journey spans personal training, entrepreneurship, operations, project management, and executive leadership. Drawing on that diverse experience, Nicky shares why she prioritises curiosity and attitude over technical skills—and how that mindset shapes the way she builds and leads teams.

We dive into the practical side of culture: how to define meaningful values, embed them into everyday decisions, and keep them alive as your company grows. Nicky also unpacks the realities of building culture in remote and distributed teams, offering honest insights into what works (and what doesn’t).

Whether you’re leading a startup or scaling an established business, this conversation is packed with grounded, actionable ideas on creating a culture people genuinely want to be part of.

SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.

Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.

Transcript

Why Culture Must Live Daily

0:00

Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I am Kaylee Batesman, the Managing Director Community and Partnerships at Sheikan Code, and today we're discussing how to grow a strong company culture. What does it really take to build a strong company culture, one that actually lives beyond a slide deck? I've got the wonderful Nikki Seina, CEO of Chorus with me today, and we're going to dive into the practical side of company culture, how to define meaningful values, embed them in everyday decisions, and keep them alive as your company grows. Welcome, Nikki. So lovely to have you here. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on and to chat about this subject.

Nikki’s Unusual Path To Tech

0:43

We would love to kick off with a little bit about you, if that's okay, to set the scene for our listeners. Yeah, so I'm Nikki Zayner, CEO of Chorus, as you mentioned. I've been at Chorus now for over 10 years. However, I actually originally started out in the fitness industry as a personal trainer and sports therapist. I did a lot of work around rehabilitation for frontal lobe brain damage. And that's where I really got into psychology. One of my beliefs around running a business and culture is about the psychology and how to work with individuals and different diversities to make sure that you're getting what you need. Right. I never know what people are going to say on here, Nikki. And you're the first to have told me your background into tech. And that's why this podcast exists. Because we we love to hear all of the different routes in and how people have transitioned for different industries into the tech industry. So can you tell me a little bit about what happened when you were younger that you um so uh something on here we always talk about is the lack of stereotypes and lack of visibility for uh the the lack of mentors and uh uh role models to bring people into the tech industry? Was there something when you were younger that you saw that inspired you to think, I want to go into fitness, that's where I want to start? Like what who was your role model when you were younger? I don't know if I really had a role model as such, you know, my dad was very much always you can. We were never allowed to stay in our house you can't, because you can do absolutely anything, it's just how you go about it. Um, and there's always very much just sort of saying yes to things and seeing where things take you. I've got into fitness because I just I just love fitness. I was a synchronised swimmer, I was a speed swimmer, I was very into the fitness when I was at school, and that's in like a natural kind of progression for me to go into the fitness industry. Um I love tech. I don't know if if you remember, I mean, I remember showing my age is the program Tomorrow's World. Yes. You remember that? We used to sit as a family and watch um Tomorrow's World and seeing all the different technologies, and it got me so excited about tech. And I still reflect on that a lot. I always think to myself, if they still do that program now, what would they be saying about tech in 10 years' time? My goodness, it's quite scary to think. Uh so that's one of the things that's always been my fascination about tech. Um, and the business side of things, it's it's it's more one of those things that I've I've always found people in psychology fascinating. So whether it was going into the fitness, or whether it was going into running a business, it's always been about um people and motivating people and achieving goals. Yes, and that visibility, so important, you seeing that on a program um and that inspiring you. Uh something I share a lot on here is when I was younger, I always wanted to be Kate AD, the uh war correspondent because she was on the news. And you see people on TV and they inspire you to think, actually, I'd like to look into a career in that. So seeing um tomorrow's world at least lit that fire under you, um, and then years later you would move into the tech industry um and uh feel at home, obviously. Um so we've got a lot to talk about today, and you have a really varied career path as well. So um, but I wanted to know how have those different experiences shaped your approach

Leadership Lessons From Nontraditional Routes

4:19

to leadership and company culture today? Gosh, there's so many different experiences. I mean, if we went all the way back to school, I was never academic, I was never um a person getting the highest the highest grades. I I kind of struggled as sitting in a classroom and listening to people and um and and that was quite hard, but it but it has shaped me quite a lot to who I am today because you get a lot of people who you know it will say to me, Well, where did you go to business? Where did you study business? What what university were you were you at? And I did go to university, but I full transparency, I dropped out after two weeks against my parents. So how did that go down? Like a left balloon, that one. Um but it but it goes to show that you don't have to have been to business school and you don't have to have done these things. There are routes for absolutely everybody. Um, and but it's always that expectation that oh, you've gone to business school and you've got all these degrees and everything like that. And no, I have I haven't. Uh I totally forgot the question. Where was I going? Um I told you it happened. Um, we were talking about how those different experiences shaped your approach to leadership and company culture today. Leadership and company culture. Okay, I'll go back to hang on my let me just have a quick thing. Um Do you want me to I can um pitch the question again? Sometimes that helps to clear people's minds and then they're like, yeah, I'll just go in again. Yeah. Um you've had such a varied career path. How have those different experiences shaped your approach to leadership and company culture today? So the different experiences are shaped so much. It it's it's seeing the good, the bad, the ugly, it's seeing how different people have handled things, different people have approached things, and just being very observant and watching and going, is that what I think is the right way to do it? And coming from my fitness background, of is that how I would motivate that person for who they are to get the best, get the best outcome? And there's many different scenarios there. You know, there's one, you know, if I go back to school days, I wasn't academic, I wasn't um the person getting the straight A's, I didn't go to business school, which everyone would think would be the right step. Um, but I could go on to run a successful business. And and and that's something when I'm looking around and I'm hiring people and people within the business, they don't have to tick a box. They don't have to fit the ideal um description that you need them to fit is about what is their attitude, what is their curiosity, how what can they bring to the business. But I know I have to step outside of my box and my lane and and think a little bit differently into a different mindset to know what can I get out of them and how can I get the most out of them for them to be able to help us progress with our goals within the business. Yes, and um, it's so topical at the moment as well of um university and whether or not you need a degree is is a question at the moment. It's so expensive and what you actually take from university. Um a lot of people do take a lot of um experiences from university, not just their qualification, but it's so expensive nowadays. So are employers always looking for that degree? Um, we have uh quite a range of community members in our platform who some have very traditional computer science degree routes, and others um have we call them weird and wonderful routes into tech. And um, our uh partners that we work with, they still very much value those. How do you transition and use all of those um uh skills that you learnt in one industry to transition into the next, even if you're not techie or don't have the um that uh a computer science degree that you think you have to have to come into tech. So it's great to hear when employers are thinking that way. Um and I love the fact that you compared fitness to how to motivate people, because right, and the different ways that people are motivated. Um you must hear that as well with fitness as well. People must think um my brother and sister-in-law, they're runners. And um, I think you have this thought of like how people are and and runners and the way that they do things and the way that they're motivated. And I look and I think that so doesn't motivate me to do fitness. Like everybody is different in what they want to do. Um, so that's uh one of those um skills that you have managed to to bring over to the tech industry of um being in leadership and thinking people are motivated in different ways, and it's not a one size fits all for everyone on your team.

Hiring For Curiosity Over Credentials

9:06

Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's it's totally that. And it it's not, you know, it sometimes I think the very first thing, like when I was a personal trainer, I'd say to people, just just put your gym kit on. Just put the gym kit on. If I said to somebody, right, you've got to go and make 10 million pounds now by selling IT managed services or cybersecurity or whatever else, they'll be like, whoa, how am I how am I gonna do that? But if we but if you start off really someone say, I want you to make make some some do it do a LinkedIn post today. Make make make two calls. The same thing with the fitness thing, that's what I learned from the fitness was just put your gym kit on. And if you don't go out for a run, that's okay. Now, once actually you've got your gym kit on, it's most likely you're gonna walk down to the gym or you're gonna go for a run, if you put your swimming costume on, you know, under your clothes, you're like, well, you're gonna go for a swim. So it's trying to break down into those small steps. And and like you were saying with the um the degree um versus those who who don't want to have a computer science degree, you know, when CVs come through the door and someone's got a computer science degree, yes, that is that is great. You know, that person's done a great achievement going to university, getting that degree, whatever it's in. You know, we've got a few people at course who law degrees or any of that. There's a lot that comes with somebody who's who who's gone and got a degree, that hard work, that determination, everything else. Yeah. But uh equally the people who haven't gone and got a degree have so much to offer as well. So if somebody sent their CV through and there's there isn't a degree on there, doesn't mean they're not going to be interviewed, they're not gonna get a job. You know, what I would look for in those interviews is uh the curiosity that they might have. Because you can teach, you can you can teach also, but it's very hard to teach somebody to have the right attitude and uh aptitude and curiosity. So with them, I might be like, what do you do in the evenings? I think so. Oh, I I tinker with an interactive lab. Boom, great. Let's love that. So it you know, a a degree on a CV, yes, it's a great is a great strength, but also there's a lot of other things, and that's a great thing about tech. You don't have to have had that computer science degree or other such things. Yes, definitely. And having that varied workforce as well with people that have degrees, traditional backgrounds, and those that don't, that can only strengthen um your team and how they all work together as well and their um different experiences, definitely. So it um it's a very wise move to bring in those different people as well to help each other. Um, and you mentioned there about curiosity, um, and you value curiosity and attitude over the technical skills. Um, what does that look like in practice when you are hiring or developing people? What does that kind of look like for you at Chorus? So hiring, so it's tech moves so quickly, as we know. Uh and it's great if you've learned something and you've got you've got those those skills and you've got certain um qualifications, but before you know it, you need the next one. So it needs to be somebody who's who's really hungry to know more, someone who's very curious, somebody who wants to know the next thing, um, who isn't afraid to learn, ask questions. And that's where culture comes into it. You have to create a culture where people do feel confident, put their hand up, ask a question, challenge something. Think about what else that they can do. If you just hire people and put them in a box and keep them stuck in a lane, then you're not going to really grow as a business. So it's trying to is trying to find those those people who are comfortable enough to be um willing just to go, what about this? Or why don't we try that? So those qualities are really important. Yes, we had a conversation on here about psychological safety in the workplace. And exactly what you just said, asking questions or feeling like you can ask questions at work is is um the key there because apparently people will not speak up if they don't believe change is possible. They kind of just think there's no point in me asking, there's no point in me speaking up, I know nothing will change, I've had enough, I'm literally just going to find an exit route from here. Um so having that psychological safety at work where you can speak up and challenge and be in an environment where you can test and um get to the end of the year and think, oh, you know what, we tried so many things, and look how far we came and what we learned from each of those experiences makes such a difference to your mental health in the workplace and whether or not you stay at a company as well. Because it's one thing um being interviewed and getting into a company and you working on that company culture and building that team, but retaining the staff as well, that that is something else where how they feel when they come to work every day. Um it's a little bit more than uh we always say on here, a Slack channel. We launched a Slack channel for our women in tech. Oh, well done. But how do they all feel when they come to work every day? It's something very different. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting.

Culture Is Actions Not Posters

14:19

That leads into um building that company culture um from the ground up as well, because when you are um starting to do that, uh it it's things that need to be built into the DNA of the culture, obviously. So um, where should leaders start and what mistakes do you see companies commonly making? Or building a culture. Words. Yes, just words, just words, that's it. You know, I often go and going, culture's just critical to our business. And I'll be like, oh yeah, yeah. And they're like, Yeah, you know, it's really important. And I'll say, Oh, what's your business values? And you can see board of directors being like, Um, well, uh, ooh, uh, isn't it? And I'm like, culture's not critical to your business, is it? Because you don't even know what your values are, you don't know what your behaviors are. You you you don't know the identity of your business. Um, you want diversity. What why do you want diversity in your business? What why is it important? It you know, people can't understand that diversity it brings it brings innovation, it it brings growth, it brings stability, it brings um it drives engagement and um performance outcomes, staff retention, it shapes that customer experience. All of those things is is culture and diversity is a massive part of that. Uh, and leaders who don't understand why diversity is important. Now, that's so so if they don't they don't get it, they're not gonna get those outcomes. But they do get it, and like, okay, but what are you gonna do? Because if if you really understand that diversity is important, what are you what are you gonna do to drive diversity? Are are you going to put a um maternity program in place so so so that people can come back from Mat Leave and feel safe and comfortable or go off and feel safe and comfortable? Are you gonna be accommodating to when their children just go into nursery? And we all know children when they first go into nursery are sick, everybody, the whole family's sick for the first three children pick up every single germ under the sun. Are you gonna be accommodating to that? Are you gonna allow them to look at their shift pattern that they can pick their children up from nursery? Um, you you want you want diversity. So you you you've got to get different people, different cultures, different religions. Okay, well, so if you understand that, then are you putting a prayer room? Because where are people going to pray who who have certain religions that require um them to go and pray or require that they want that they need and want to pray? You know, so have you put a prayer room in place? You you understand that with diversity you've got different um neurodiversities. What have you put in place to support those people? Is there something downstairs where they can give an outlet? Have you got a relaxation room? There's all these different things that so they that have to be put into place. But if directors really do understand um businesses, understand how important culture is, and they'll understand how important diversity is, and it's not just words, because there's things that they have to do to make sure they support implementing um different people to come into the business and supporting them. Yes, I love that. Um I love everything you just said because also it it you framed it as well with it leaders having to know, and that is that it needs to trickle down from the leaders because if you see um the board of directors who are now and they're leaving early to go and pick up their kids, that trickles down to everybody else as well. It's not just we write it on our website, we actually see our own people doing that from the top, and other people feel more confident blocking out their calendars and doing what they need to go and do. Um, but like you said, it is is so much more than words. Um and we get to see um uh a lot of that with uh the difference in some of our partners because um companies that say, Oh, well, you know, we send out one tweet on International Women's Day, and that's kind of all we've been doing, and it's like that's not going to improve anything. So uh partners tend to work with us as well when they're like, we really want to be doing other activities and things, and it's kind of companies realizing that it is something that you need to make an effort in. Like we what you just said there with the culture, it's making an effort, it's not we tick to box, we put our logo on something, we attended one expo one year and we haven't done anything since and you know got that visibility and that stat, but it is an ongoing effort. Um, and when people work with us, they work with us and lots of other networks to make sure that there's lots of different things going on throughout the year. Um, but uh I love it because everything that you just said is you have to make a conscious effort. It's not something that's just done by magic. You know, it's just we did one thing and that's it. It's a lot of hard work. You've you've got to care and you've got to give it the attention. And and and that's all the different diversities to the female in the business, to the men in the business, that they also feel that they can go and pick the children up and do various different things to you know supporting pride is not about just one month of the year. It's not about um Black History Month, it's not about just those particular internships. Those are great because it raises um the awareness, but it's about all year round that people feel supported, they feel like they've got a voice, they feel comfortable to ask. Everybody should be able to ask, um, and and to challenge. So it's really trying to um it's trying to get leaders to go, yeah, this this is this isn't about a day, and like you say, International Women's Day. It should be all the time. What can we do to support more women? Women shouldn't have to feel embarrassed about when it's their period and having to hide their handbag and go to the toilet. Put some actually put products out. Put them put in the ladies' toilet. So they're it it it's showing that you that you do care and you actually do want it. And the outcome of that, they've it's proven by 25%, you will improve productivity. If somebody is the culture is good, it will improve the outcome by 25 um percent for those teams who turn up to work happy, motivated, positive. But to achieve that, it can't just be here, have a beer after work or something. You've got to put hard work in, it's the day-to-day. And when people feel valued and noticed and safe at work, then they'll really feel the culture. And then, you know, that's where we start getting the results. So it's people think, oh, it's just because it's nice. It's like, no, it's it's it's a business initiative in itself as well. Yes, because uh the costing finding and training new staff as well, if you have a high turnover, that's very expensive. So it actually helps you as a business and works in your favor to not keep having people come through that revolving door. If you can find a way to have a culture where people want to stay, um, or even some companies are really good at um when people do leave, because people do leave and they want to go on and try something new. There are some companies where you hear everybody comes back at some point. And that's always nice when you hear that. There are certain companies that are like, oh, I've dipped in and out of that company many times because I've always had a good experience there. Unfortunately, though, there are many companies where people say, I got out of there alive and I will never be coming back. Yeah, it's a shame. It's a shame. But I guess it builds our resilience and our experience. And like you said at the very start of this, what what experience do I have that got me to where I am? And I I I have some of those experiences and I learned and learned that's not how I. Would do it. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. So um you can build that into your culture.

Defining Values With The Whole Team

22:06

Um we talked about values a little bit um and making sure that leadership at least know um what their values are. Uh how do you go about defining your company values at Chorus and how do you ensure they're actually used day to day rather than just written down? Yeah, it's an interesting one. So when we went about doing our values, to me it was important, it wasn't just going to be me shouting the top, you will be honest, things like that. That's not gonna matter for anyone. Um, so myself and my head of marketing, we we sat down and we put together a bit of a workshop for the whole business from the founders, the directors to the cleaners to everybody at the time, and got people just to use words, what they liked about chorus, what they didn't like about chorus, what motivates them. Um, and then we started to find trends across the business, across different departments of what the core was of chorus and how how um people felt the behaviours were and what they liked and what they wanted it to be. So we made sure the values were built around um the different personalities within the business um and how we wanted to move forward and working with our mission statement. So then embedding the values, it's cart again, it can't be a one-off thing, this is what the values are. It's got to be we've got to live and breathe it so everybody can bring ideas forward. And that's our you know, it's our champion the truth. How's it going? What do you like? What don't you like? What's working? What's better ideas? What have you seen? Champion the truth, always champion it. There will be embrace the future, there's another one of ours. Okay, let's move forward. So what else can we do? You know, what what what's the next what's the next thing that's happening with with tech? So there's various various different things. So if anyone wants to bring a suggestion board, what do they put, what value do they put it underneath? If we're having a meeting, what value does that does that come under? We're doing an initiative. Is this an enjoy the journey? It's not about value sort of, okay, we're going to have a summer party. This is around our enjoy the journey. So we refer back to them all the time. So of course they're on our marketing materials, but they're also, we talk about them in our meetings. We had them up around, we have them up around everywhere, so it's being reminded. But I've had people come back to me and go, well, under stay curious, can I ask? So that they would challenge me under a value, which is just so healthy. So but again, it has to be led by me, making sure I'm talking about it a lot, the exec team are referring to them. And I love it because I'll walk around different meeting rooms and I'll see the values up on a PowerPoint, talking to a client, our customers we talk about them. It's who we are, it's our behaviors, it's our how we go about um working. Different departments see them slightly differently in some ways. So the developers see them slightly differently to maybe the cybersecurity analysts, etc. So I all of it has the same message, but some departments use them how they they they feel that they should be used, which is lovely. Yeah, that's an interesting point, actually. Yes, different departments will view them differently. Um, but as long as, like you said, they're not written down and just completely forgotten about um until you know somebody realizes and dust is off, dusts off a website years down the line and thinks, oh yeah, we did have those um values, it makes sense. And to make sure that everything fits into those pockets. I love that, especially things like um uh you talked about um embracing the future and and and um thinking ahead all the time. Um that is something, oh, when I've been at companies that are always thinking ahead, you um you you become so much more loyal and enjoy, and like you said, enjoy the journey and and all of those things they you end up staying a lot longer, enjoying your job. It makes such a difference to actually be in a culture where that is encouraged rather than uh just thinking um I'm gonna stick out a year here because it will look bad on my CV if I don't at least stay for a year. Um, but I I feel like that the companies that I've been at where I've done that, they've got so much more out of me as an employee because I've just felt like I've had a lot more freedom as well at that company. Yeah, yeah. It's it's true, isn't it? It does, it makes you um it makes you understand, it makes you feel value the business, and people want to be part of a community. I tend not to say part of a family because um it I see it more as like a bit like a sports team, maybe that's my sports, my sports background. But we love that, yeah. We all want to win the game. We all want to win it. So we've all got our different positions and everything like that that we that we have to do and we have to work together. There's nobody in the business that we don't we don't need. Everybody is needed, and everybody knows what they're there to do, and everyone can put ideas forward. Um, people who feel the culture and a part of the business, they're gonna be like, well, well, let's do this, let's let's do that, let's push forward. So it's it's making sure that everybody really does feel like they're part of the future goal. Um, and then you feel part of a community and part of a team, which is a love, which I think, you know, that's a lovely feeling. I love that you said sports team. Um, I have been at companies where they've said family, and it is almost a bit like that's a bit strange. Um, but having a sports team is yes, you're all working towards that goal.

Remote Culture That Isn’t Forced

27:27

You all want to win. Like that's such a um a great way to frame that. Um so I wanted to ask you a little bit about uh remote and um distributed teams as well. Um obviously since COVID, um, that has been a struggle uh for many companies, but we've all kind of got used to that now and um a lot of people more productive um as a result. However, um remote and distributed teams can struggle with connections. So um what have you found works best to maintain a strong company culture when people aren't physically together? Yeah, so I mean, firstly, you know, I I'm a strong believer in people being being in um together hybrid working model. Um but we do have a department, our cybersecurity department, which is fully remote by design. And that has been a real focus. So the ones in the office, there's a lot that we that we do, making sure there's times when they're coming together, collaborating together in person, but when they're remote, it's very different. Um, a lot of the people who are the fully remote roles are possibly people who actually quite like being being fully remote, but it's still a way to try and quite go, okay, how do we make everyone feel like they're part of the team, they're part of something? And it's trying to make sure we give as much focus to it as possible. The number one thing is not to go, I've got the answers. Yeah, not to go, this is how you do it. Because I'm not that person. I'm not a person who would choose a job that's fairly remote because I'm a person that needs to be around people. So it's first of all understanding that there's a different diversity there. So who am I to sit and go, this is how you do it? Because I don't know. And that was that that's a really, I think that's a really key thing is you stop and you listen. Spend some time with those people understanding who they are. Otherwise, they're gonna get a white middle-aged woman's idea of fun. The team with Cyber and List, do not think that that is a fun thing to do, or I might think is a fun thing to do. So it was a matter of really stopping and going, what are they doing? What was what what's it what interests you know? You don't want to force them to have to suddenly be present and do certain things and hey, this is forced fun, because that that's not the right way for them. It's actually gentle, gentle things and things that they might find interesting. There's small things like in the mornings they have a stand-up. So they have a quick 10-15 minute morning meeting every morning, videos are on, hi, hi, hi, see the whites of each other's eyes, have a nice little chat, what's working, what's not, what you've locked on. Now that's already it's just 10-15 minutes, but it creates a connection. It also creates that team feel of this is the focus for today, this is what we're gonna do, this is what um is the outcome. Anyone stuck with anything is it is given that that bit of drive. The next thing would be making sure people have got clear, understandable KPIs because then they feel part of a goal that they're working towards. I do company updates where video of me talking about what's going on in the business, which includes all the departments, so then they will feel a little bit more involved in other departments as well. We try and do cross-collaboration um activities within the business. So it might be, I don't know, if we're doing a fundraising or volunteering or a new EDI initiative, that we make sure that we've got people from each department. So again, make them feel slightly less um isolated, team meetings. They sometimes do um the fully remote people do an um online kind of escape room kind of thing. Oh yeah, they go in and they escape a website or something like that. Um and they love that. So again, that wouldn't be I I would probably never come up with that idea because my diversity is a completely different diversity. So it's listening and going, what is it you would find fun and interesting? What do you think you could do to be involved more in the business? How can we um share our culture more with with the people who are fully remote? But you've got to get those people involved in the meetings and not to think it just sits with the the um board or the exec team to have the answers. You've got to you've got to bring those people in, which is why we have a fundraising committee or an EDI committee or a social committee. So we've got a good diversity of different people in different roles and a little bit of ideas from everybody. On top of that, we have employee feedback surveys. So it can be anonymous or you can put your name down, or have one-to-one discussions with people. Obviously, you've got your usual one-to-ones with your managers, so lots of touch points and different types of touch points that would suit everybody. I went off on one then with lots of things, sorry. No, uh that's brilliant because it is like we've kind of touched upon in this, there isn't one thing that is going to be your silver bullet to success either. There are so many different things that make up a good company culture. And the fact that even at the start, you said about um different things motivate different people, and that is the the beautiful thing about diversity as well. So listening to people about what they would like to do are how to get the best out of someone as well in in their working day, because I remember during COVID, um the company I was at was very concerned about the people that lived on their own at the time. I lived on my own at the time, and I remember HR um being um concerned and thinking, you know, you live on your own, we need to do check-ins, and we need to stand up every morning. And I was thinking actually, it was the people that didn't live on their own that the ones that you should be concerned about because a lot of arguments were breaking out about where people were working at home and working at the kitchen table and having children and um all of those things. There was such a diversity in all of us going home and experiencing a different work-life balance suddenly. And that is still there today with people who um I've worked with loads of people who say, you know, actually, um, because I have children, I like to go back into the office. I like being hybrid because it means I um have the flexibility and I I I can have the best of both worlds. Um whereas some people like to be at home all the time and um some some people like a balance or uh they like to stand up in the morning um as well because at least you get that contact with somebody. Um, but there is such a finding the way to get the best out of people and you must see such a difference in um departments as well and how people like to work together. Um sometimes sales teams like to be around each other and they might be up on their feet and on the phone, and um, and then you'll get like very tacky teams who like the quiet when you work around developers. They want to put their headsets on and they want to be quiet, they don't want to be in an open plan office. Um, so at least just listening to people is just the key there. Yeah, yeah, well because we have some teams who are like, we'll go out paintballing and go-casting, and then we have other teams like, oh, you just have a board game night, you know, everything's something, something different. So, yeah, it's it's it's listening and not thinking that you know what's

Protecting Culture While Scaling

34:30

fun and what people want to do, but asking other people what they want to do. Um, I wonder about as a company grows, um, because culture can shift um or even dilute. So, what have you learned about protecting and evolving company culture as you scout? Yeah, it's really challenging and it is it is one that one of the hardest things with with scaling. When you bring new people into the business, it's embedding our culture to them and it's trying to some people can come in with some bad behaviours which aren't aren't aligned to who we are as a as a business. So it's it is it is very hard. I mean, I try and sit with new new starters when there's new people coming in once a month, sit down and do a meeting, and line out you know what our culture is, why we why we have certain values in place and stuff like that and how we like to handle certain things. Um but it's it's very hard. And that but it's why culture isn't just a one-off activity, it's constantly thinking of different ways to showcase your culture, um, and different ways to showcase it your your values, because as you grow it, it does dilute down. But having a very close management team and exec team is really is really key to that, and keeping them engaged and on board and um moving forward with the initiatives that we've got, then that will go into their their meetings. Our exec team work really hard to make sure that they're they're working with different teams as well, so that they help keep the um cross-business collaboration and awareness, which which helps. Yes, I love that. And um making sure that you stay close and communicate obviously is important because, like you said, and it's an important point. Some people do slip through the net, and you do sometimes find people in your company that you think maybe this isn't the right environment for you to thrive in either. Um, and like you said, that people can slip in with bad habits, um, and it's how quick, how quickly management deal with that as well, um, to protect the rest of the team who um you know are abiding by values and and um winning every day and and doing what they should be doing. Um and sometimes it's like the team are almost looking to you to say this person doesn't quite align with our values as well, and to be very protective of what has been built for the people that are doing great things. So to, yeah, I agree, always staying aligned um in management and uh making sure that that um trickles throughout the company. Um, because it it can be quite difficult as you grow to um remain close as well as a company um and to make sure that you know people don't have to know every single person, obviously, but it's so difficult when you do grow and you think, actually, did we lose that not family, that sports team? Yeah, yeah. And it's one of those checkpoints and going, let's just check in. So in my exact meetings, we we all check in our values and go, okay, what's everyone done recently towards stay curious? Yeah, how we showcase showcase values and just making sure that you've got at least one supporter, you're checking in and going, have we stayed aligned to our our values and what we're doing? And how have we promoted and marketed them internally recently? Yeah. Yeah. Um Nikki, I could keep talking to you about company culture all afternoon because uh there are so many important things um that go into a company culture and uh it does start from the ground up and it's not something that you can just magically pluck out of spin-air um years down the line. So um I could keep talking to you on on this, but um, we are out of time. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you and picking your brain on company culture. So thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it. It's been a great session, so thank you. Thank you. And for everybody listening, as always, thank you for joining us, and we hope to see you again next time.