Life On Mars

After a winter hiatus, lots of St. John's Wort and extensive retooling, Secret Son returns for Season 2. 

Henceforth - also with YouTube video! 

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Join Ruth Monnig and I as we discuss growing up in the same Midwesterner town, searching for family and how searching altered our sense of identity.

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This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing stated on it, either by its hosts or any guests, is to be construed as psychological, medical or legal advice.

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To make a one-time donation or become an ongoing patron:

https://www.patreon.com/secret_son

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Podcast: www.secretsonpod.com

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/secret_son

Mike Personal Site: www.miketrupiano.com

Voice: https://soundcloud.com/heartlandrefugee

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Show Link:

https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1659085017

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Produced by: Trout Sound GbR Trupiano & Staudt copyright 2024

All rights reserved

Transcript

Mike: So, you're Ruth. You are one of my patrons, which I'm forever grateful for.

Ruth: I am. 

Mike: We're from the same hometown. 

Ruth: We are and we've sort of bonded over that a little bit and you're one of my favorite podcasts out there. I know that we've connected and our stories are not similar but we did have the same hometown kind of thing, 

Mike: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Although where you lived could have been another planet from where I lived. I didn't know that part of town at all. 

Ruth: No but I knew where you went to school and and that's a big thing in our hometown, which is kind of crazy. And, yeah, we had different versions of Mars going on and we both grew up in St.

Louis. It's a very strange place and I think I can speak for Mike and say we both wanted to get out [00:01:00] pretty quickly and did. So, yeah, it's different. I'm sure it's a lovely place to raise your children. 

Mike: Yeah, that's what I hear. And if you like baseball - 

Ruth: Exactly.

And beer and such. I'm pretty still connected to it for whatever reason, but I think that's part of the whole identity thing is that we kind of got dropped into these places and that becomes who we are because that's what we know. So, it's strange.

I don't know. It's really hard to explain. 

Mike: So, season one was focusing on secrecy, at least in my mind, and season two I want to focus on identity. overtly and not just in my mind. So, I am at my age - I found my father's [00:02:00] side of the family, when I was almost fifty-one .

And I think if I had seen photos of him and known his name and known some family history younger - I just have this feeling I'd be a lot different - I'd be a lot further on and just so much time in the wilderness. And instead of stewing in my rage, I thought I'd talk to other adoptees. 

Ruth: No, I think, you know, my experience is super similar and I, think I mentioned to you, I, heard this man, Mark Vincente, talking about cults. His question or his answer to the question was, "what was it like when you got out of the cult?"

He said, "everything around me was exactly the same, but it looked completely different" and it felt completely different. And I don't know how to verbalize it any other way, but I do feel like if I'd had a clear, you know, something clear [00:03:00] to look through, I wouldn't have struggled as much, even though I'm not even sure how I would talk to you about struggling.

But yeah, I didn't learn about my birth family until I was fifty and I'm fifty-nine now and I'm still pulling off the layers and I feel like I know myself better now but I don't think I knew I didn't know who I was, if that makes any sense at all. I know I was thinking about it before -

I know growing up one of the only things I knew was I didn't want to be my mother. And I'm not a hundred percent sure why, but I didn't have like, you know, 'I wanna be a nurse' or I want, you know, I, and I, I do think I struggled with a label like, 'I'm gonna do this' or 'I am a such-and-such' and I know I struggled with that throughout my - with careers and all kinds of things in my twenties and thirties and forties.[00:04:00] 

So, I mean, in hindsight, I think it's directly related, but at the time I just kind of thought I was -

misdirected, nuts - all that kind of stuff. 

Mike: That's what irritates me now is that I feel like people my age are wrapping up careers, getting ready for retirement and I feel I - Yeah, I guess it is coming outta the fog or almost like getting sober, you know? It's like - you've got to be kidding me.

You know? It's so irritating. 

Ruth: I feel like I'm ready. I feel like I'm ready. I'm kind of ready. I'm ready to - I feel like I've got renewed energy because I feel like, oh, oh. I mean, and that's the way I describe kind of waking up. It's like really knowing that something happened here and

I was a part of the situation, but I had no idea what was happening. You know, it was sort of like being in a Ponzi scheme or [00:05:00] something. I mean, you're, you're there and you're actively participating, but you don't know what's going on in the background. And, you know, I mean, I think that speaks to the secrecy too.

And I think the fact that there was secrecy didn't help with our senses of identity at all. Because if we'd felt, if, at least in my experience, if I'd felt the ability to ask questions or the ability to kind of probe into these taboo areas, maybe I would've felt better. Just like you looking at your picture of your dad, like, oh, wow.

If I'd known a name, if I'd known anything, you know, I would've, but, instead, I just felt like - this is something I can't talk about. This is something I'm not supposed to do. 

Mike: Right. So, this is closed adoption in the middle of America - St. Louis, Missouri - in the Sixties. Right? In the Sixties. 

Ruth: I was born in '64. You were born a couple years after me., So, yeah, it was, and and I've said before in other, at other points, I, I grew up in a family that was [00:06:00] very Midwestern, very kind of P's and Q's and, you know, you should do this, you should do this. You need to look a certain way. And I was, I was this athletic little girl, which wasn't real common.

And I was also super into like sewing and knitting and to me they like those things - I couldn't really reconcile that stuff. And it seemed weird. But when I found out who my birth parents were, it was like, oh my gosh. Because my father had played college football, his brothers and my uncles had all played football like practically professionally.

And all the women on that side of the family were like - seamstresses. That's what they did for money. That's what they're, that's what they did for a living. So. It totally. All of a sudden I was like, oh my gosh, now like this, this crafty, [00:07:00] tomboy thing I had working. Yeah. That, that, that was what I was, I mean, I really was that, and it was kind of permission, like permission to be, yeah, you're okay.

Like, it's okay now. You don't, you don't have to try to figure this out anymore. But I agree. It's, and now what? Now what? You know, and that's. I think you and I share that we sort of feel like both of us feel like we have something to say. But what do you do with it and how do you, you know, how do you, how do you make it into something that's, you know, a contribution?

Mike: Did you try to search at a younger age and you only got a result later? 

Ruth: I wasn't a hundred percent all that interested because I knew this was going to be Pandora's box and it was going to be not well received with my folks while they were living and when the Internet [00:08:00] kind of came up and you could start searching different things.

I poked around a little bit. I would say I was in my late twenties, early thirties. And I also kind of came to the realization that things like breast cancer didn't show up when a birth mother was giving birth. It might've shown up later. And the only information I had was, "you were healthy. You were Lutheran. You were German. You were healthy."

That was all I needed to know. And my argument at that point was like, well, how do we know that she's, you know, she's okay, or she's, she's, and I asked my parents if I could, you know, do some more searching and they left me a message on my answering machine. And it said - well, your dad and I thought about it and all we can remember is your parents were young, their parents didn't want 'em to get married.

Your mother was a nursing student, which wasn't true and your father played Big 10 football and I had never actually at that point never really thought about my dad. [00:09:00] And that was like I, I tell people it was like encyclopedias of information. I mean, it was just, it was, you know, it was one little fact to some people, but to me it was like, oh my.

And then I realized, you know, that's a finite set of people. That's a group of people that can be searched. That's something, you know, I, All of a sudden I kind of went to this, oh, I might be able to find him. And I hadn't really thought about him, but it almost became enough for a little while. And I think I probably got scared.

I think I probably internally was a little frightened about the whole thing. And I didn't do anything. I mean, I, I would talk about it and I'd read about it and I'd think about it. And I had a, a really good friend who was also adopted in St. Louis. And I mean, a month before I was - same agency. And we would kind of sit around going, you know, I know that, you know, I really have all these kind of

these states of wonder, I guess you know about this, and I feel kind of like I got dropped into this family and [00:10:00] there's just something about it that doesn't feel. Normal. And he had started the process and by this time I got married and my husband is a physician and he was like - you really need to find out, you know, more information, you really need to know more.

My parents died and I was kind of ambivalent about it. I was just sort of like you know - I just lost my parents and I didn't really know if I wanted to find a whole other family. You know, things are complicated. 

Mike: This is ten years ago. 

Ruth: Yeah, this is about ten years ago.

And he really pushed me to do it. And I think now he regrets it because the change in me as a human being was remarkable. I mean, I just was so - I'm just not the same person and I don't have words for it a hundred percent. Like most adoptees, I just know that I [00:11:00] understand myself better.

I feel like I just was born in many ways. And I think that's sort of like you're saying about careers and what, you know, what, you know, people are retiring and I'm like, well, what are you gonna do? And you know, and I'm kind of like, okay, let's, you know, let's write a book. Let's do this. Let's do that. You know?

And, yeah, it's,, it's just a very different and, and there's a lot of pain with it. There was a lot of pain. My birth mother - I had secondary rejection with her and we currently live in Denver, Colorado, and she quite literally lives a mile from me. I can see her church from our front porch and, you know, there's a lot of family and friends who are like, well, I'd be knocking on her door and I'm like, Hmm. You know, and she's, she's of an age where she doesn't really understand DNA and ancestor DNA, that when people give, give this the sample, you know, it's a two-way street. Like, I can see them, they can see [00:12:00] me.

So, when all of these cousins began showing up and began matching, because she comes from a relatively large family, she thought I was out there like putting billboards up, you know, saying who I was and I, she really doesn't. I, I'm, I'm not, I'm a shame souvenir for her and she wants nothing to do with me.

She has said I have ruined her life. I don't care who you are, how well adjusted you are, that's knowing that you are the cause of someone's misery for fifty or sixty years, it just feels too heavy. 

Mike: So, let's say, I mean, adolescence is a confusing time for everybody.

Yeah. So, from then. What is it like? Are you like, did you go to school? Did you think, well, I have no idea what I wanna study, because that was me. [00:13:00] I had about eight majors and I ended up just after three years with the most in philosophy, I was like, "fine, get me outta here." And, then, I don't know - I'll go to grad school. I'll teach it or something.

I have no idea. Then, I realized I'm not academic at all. 

Ruth: No - very similar. Yeah. I majored in poli sci, but it was sort of. You know, 

Mike: That was one of my majors. 

Yeah. Yeah. But I can remember they would change your advisor around a lot in college. I don't know if you had that experience, but I had one of the later ones said, I 

because it used to be just sort of a check the box and say, okay, you've got all your thing, all the things. I don't need to talk to you anymore. Go on. And this, this man said, I kind of need to talk to you because I had this just. Really bizarre set of classes and and none of it really made a lot of sense.

And the only real commonality was they all kind of check the box for, for political science. But I had like a Canadian studies minor. What do [00:14:00] you do with that? Like, what does that mean? I took some French, I had, like the, biggest paper. The biggest kind of coursework I had was on space, weapons and war and the Strategic Defense Initiative.

And it's like, what? Okay, so, well, okay. I mean, I, I can tell you about ballistic missiles, but like, I did nothing with that. I don't know how I got there. I, you know, that's just where I was. And I don't work for NASA and I never wanted to work for NASA or any, or the, or the government or anything like that.

I mean, I would've worked for the government, but I, I didn't have any particular passion for this particular thing. So, yeah, I graduated from college and I kind of thought I wanted to go into journalism and broadcasting. 

Me too. Yeah. Yeah. And did you see ads? Did you see ads in St.

Louis for Connecticut School of Broadcasting on tv? Because I did and I thought - that sounds amazing. 

Ruth: And there was also I can't remember his name. There was a radio [00:15:00] personality in St. Louis on KMOX, and he had a son who'd gone to either Connecticut or one of the other ones that was.

Local and was now in in radio. And I thought, that sounds incredible, you know? But I think, you know, when I would approach it with my parents or anything, they were like, well, that's a trade school. That's not, you know, no, no. 'cause I think they thought that maybe I wanted to be an actress or something like that.

And they were like, oh, you know, all these years of school, and I mean, I, you know. But the weird part was, I think really what my parents wanted me to do was to get married and live in the neighborhood. Like I don't think it mattered, you know, where, you know, I think that was really what they wanted.

And they spent an awful lot of money. We spent an awful lot of money on, you know, education for that. So, yeah, totally lost. You know, and I, and when I look at my list of careers that I've tried on, I don't know if you remember the Big Chill where they, [00:16:00] the, the, you know, it starts with a funeral and the, the, the man that's died the, the minister says he, he's gone through.

A lot of seemingly unrelated careers, and it was like, yeah, that would be, that would be me. And yeah, I, I So I, yeah, I, I did, I thought I wanted to go on broadcasting. I looked into going into the School of RTVMP at UNC, and I went over there and I talked to the guys there, and they were like, no, don't do this.

This is stupid. Just if you wanna do anything in, in this industry, you need to get a job. And just, you know. And then I went and interviewed in like some tiny little towns and I thought I would do that, but it just seemed strange. I don't know. It just, it wasn't right. Like whatever it was wasn't right. 

Mike: So, while you're growing up, are you, are you wondering constantly? Because, I swear, I woke up every day wondering about the family, and I think this [00:17:00] took me out of the family that was out there that I had not yet found. And I swear this. Facilitated my dissociation. You know, like I'm not really living where I physically am.

Ruth: I don't think that was my experience as much as I would have these time periods where, like around my birthday, where I would be like, I wonder if she's thinking about me. I, I wonder if this has gone on and I wonder where I would be now. And I wonder, you know, and you've got all these people in your head that, you know, maybe your mother is such-and-such.

And I can remember going through the search and telling, telling the social worker that, you know, in my head I was the long-lost daughter of Grace Kelly and you know, Nelson Rockefeller, and they were gonna come, you know, swish in and. And she, she had this very pregnant pause. She was very appropriate and she, she, she, she said, I think I'm safe in telling you that your mother was not Grace [00:18:00] Kelly.

I was like, okay. But but I don't, I, yeah, I, I just felt uncomfortable. Where I was like, is like, I felt like a little bit like a gerbil wheel. Am I doing what I'm supposed to do so that these people are happy? Am I doing what I'm supposed to do? So those people are happy, you know, and. I just feel when I look back, it feels exhausting.

It feels exhausting. And 

Mike: so did you work in broadcasting or what did you Oh, did I do, did you do many? Did you take many 

Ruth: paths? I did many things. I took many paths. Yeah. I I worked most, the very first thing I did was worked at a travel agency as like a business sales representative, which was really bizarr nd I was taking the GRE, 'cause I knew I was gonna have to do something. I was gonna have to get some more education, but I didn't know what that was. So I took the GRE. I think I took the L Well, I know I took the LSAT too, thinking that, oh well everybody goes to law school, I should do that. And I got the probably lowest score you could possibly [00:19:00] ever get on an LSAT.

And I went back to the dean and he said, well, you need to take it again. And I said, I did take it again. He goes. I don't know if there's anyone who's ever come to my office with a score this low. Perhaps you should pick another profession, which was, you know, pretty obvious. So, gosh, I went from there.

I did some video editing and video production with a video yearbook company, which was fun and fantastic, but did, there's just no future in it. No pay. No pay. And I. Started working in real estate just with a classmate. And I found it interesting, but I found it interesting from the sort of like, there's gotta be an easier way to do data kind of thing.

I was always like tracking things and I'd seen an article when I was there, and this is over a number of years, I'd seen an article in the newspaper about, information technology and how libraries were really kind of the forerunners [00:20:00] and that they, you know, that UNC was teach, you know, has this library school and, and I was like, that sounds kind of cool.

And so I took like a few classes and I loved it and I just think the thing about it was I could make sense of things. I think that I had never been able to make sense of anything. Mm-Hmm. And in libraries, not just the filing and all that kinda stuff, but you know, I know where to find an answer. I know how I can find an answer.

I can find you an answer, I can find, you know, I, I was just part of this needing to know, and I think maybe, you know, I haven't really put two and two together, but I think that's really part of what it was. And I honestly dunno how anybody gets through life without going to library school now. 'cause I just learned so many important skills.

And and then I did work, I'd worked as a research librarian, but for in the news industry and [00:21:00] in publishing. And that was also more research. That was also research. Yeah, more research. And that was fun. And and then I, I, I think I kind of got bored 'cause I, I, I did. I'd gotten, I'd done some professional things that most people had wouldn't do in a life.

I moved a library. I, I I just kind of big, big stuff that it's like, okay, what now? You know? And I wasn't sure. I thought, well, maybe I'll write, maybe I'll do something. But I got a part-time job doing professional fundraising and that led to like a ten-year career. Or more in fundraising. And, again, like research was the thing.

I could, you know, I would, not only was I doing the soliciting and stuff, which I ended up not particularly caring for, but I would find out about people and I would, you know, I would learn about what their life was like and what their house was like. And I would write these reports after going to see people about what I saw and who [00:22:00] they were and who they knew.

And it was, again, a big sense making kind of a. A thing. And I do view that as a skill set that I have, and I taught that and because I went back to school after that to get my Ph.D. in information science that I did not finish when my parents were both very ill when I was finishing my PhD and I had a lot of other personal stuff going on, so I stepped away and I never went back.

But again, like content and context, I've always been looking for that. And I've never figured it out, you know, for me, and I think finding the birth family - I think identity for us is content and context. 'cause we just don't, you know, our content isn't in context. And, and, you 

Mike: know, that'll be the title of this episode.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Ruth: And it's very, it's just hard. It's hard, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to, it's again, I go back to the gerbil wheel of like, [00:23:00] am I doing it right now? Am I doing it right now? Am I doing it right now? And what was I supposed to be doing? You know? And it's just, just a very, very fluid mental thing that, and, you know, I had a lot of depression growing up and I think it was.

Probably directly related to some of this struggle that I couldn't verbalize or identify as a kid. 

Mike: Non-adoptees, of course, have identity issues, but for me it comes, so much of it comes back to genetic mirroring and not having that. And when I first saw the photo of my father, I just collapsed on the floor, basically.

I was like, oh my God, he's somebody who looks like me. It's unbelievable. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I know people who, who discover, who search and find when they're in their twenties, you know? And I think [00:24:00] it just, it changes so much. I mean, I, I'm doing so much more than I used to. I'm able to do so much more and I have less of this constant questioning of like, wait, do I move like this?

Or do, wait, do I think like, this is this, is this what I do? You know? 'cause like a context is like, for example, I like doing physical things. Plastering. I was plastering at my mother-in-law's and my, you know, my father was a tile layer, you know Sicilian immigrant, and he did mm-Hmm. Was very good at all these physical things.

And my adoptive mother forbid, my adoptive father from teaching me tools or any of this stuff, but somehow I have a natural ability to do it. And just to realize that. 

Ruth: So, that's the same. It's just, yeah, that's, that's the whole same thing. I mean, my, I I always joke my mom had a sewing machine, but I'm not sure she knew how to plug it in.

She would take lessons on it but, meanwhile, I was making prom dresses in the [00:25:00] basement and trying to figure out, you know, how to knit, you know, a thumb. And, you know, I, I mean, I just was very, very physically active and my entire. My entire genetic you know, line, that's what they did. And I mean, there were, there, there were, there were other things that was, because that was mostly from my father's side, my mother's side.

That's not a big, huge, they are very, kind of, very different in, in a variety. But it, but as far as the. Mirroring the looking, I still haven't a hundred percent seen it 'cause I've never met her and I've seen pictures of her. And I have to say she has a bit of a chameleon thing about her. I've seen her over the ages and if I look like anybody, I definitely look like her.

But the thing that gets me is when I, when I meet cousins or I meet people that have met her. I mean, I, I've had the, this [00:26:00] experience more than one time where I, I, they're looking at me in a particular way. Like they're just looking at me and there's almost a silence. And I'll, I'll be like, well, you know what it is?

What, what? And they're like, you just look so much like her. And I've had people say, it's like being in the room with her not, and I said, well, do you think I look that much like her? And they were like, it's not just the way you look like her, it's the way you. Talk and your hands and your, and just, it's the, it's the presence.

Wow. You know, I've never, you know, and. I didn't have kids. You didn't, you don't have kids, right? You, I, I think so. No. Yeah. And so, and I didn't really want them, 'cause this was a, this was a mess and I didn't wanna pass that on to anybody else. And and to have kids, that's not a good reason to see yourself.

I, that would be the only real reason or one of the only real reasons. And, so, no, I think there can be 

Mike: a reason. Yeah. Yeah. That is a [00:27:00] reason for some people, I think either consciously, willingly, or subconsciously. Right. Right. I need to see myself, you know? 

Ruth: Right. And so I'm still waiting, but I do, I have cousins and I, and I do look like some of them and I may see it in myself more than they see it.

But I mean, I have one cousin who I just look at and I go, you know - I'm glad that I'd ever met him on the street 'cause he's really cute. You know, it's like, you know, it's like that kind of stuff is just, you know, but we would never have met. We were in, you know, far distance. Places. But but yeah, and, and, and I am very different from some of the birth family, but I think it's about your essence a lot of times and that is not something you can describe per se.

So, how is it find it? So, you found your mom? [00:28:00] Mm-Hmm. Secondary rejection. And you've found your dad, I guess. And, then, I did find my dad. He was, after this - he was deceased. Oh, okay. But you saw photos and you met relatives and then Yes. Yes. Within a short period of time, those two discoveries. And then, Mm-Hmm.

Mike: What happens to you, do you, in terms of identity? Today's theme? 

Ruth: Well, again, well, the other thing that for me was kind of unique was that my father's side of the, my father on my father's side of the family, there were people that were friends with my father in college and high school that I. Knew their children went to high school with their children.

I mean, none, none of us know anything about all of this. So, at the end of the day, after I've been searching, I kind of come across some of these names because they were from the same [00:29:00] town or, you know, did, did some of the same things and it was just like, holy mackerel. Like these people that I've been around kind of, again, it gets into the secrecy thing.

It's not really the identity part but it was just really. I felt like I was in this big coincidence circle all the time. And and I think from an identity point of view, it makes you wonder - ha, ha! Have I been missing something? Like - what am I missing? Like - what did I miss? Like what - - did I miss that memo?

Did I miss the conversation? Did I not know? So, again, I think the secrecy and the identity kind of, they're super intertwined. You know, I, one of the other things I remember is I could never, I was never a carefree kid, and I remember thinking I'm, as I found out more, I was a little bit lighter. [00:30:00] I, I don't know how to, I was also, I was heavier in other ways, but I was a little bit lighter where I could.

I could feel okay dancing in the aisle at the grocery store. I didn't have to worry. I just felt better about doing the things that just kind of came naturally but it didn't help the overall picture, per se. Yeah, the, the whole finding of the families was, I guess there's another kind of component of it where I'm sort of their family but I'm sort of not their family.

And, I'm sort of gonna be invited at Christmas but, other times, I might not be invited at Christmas. And and the guilt that I felt - I mean, I, my parents are deceased but I have this vision of my birth dad and my adopted dad sitting at a bar in heaven or wherever. And, my adopted dad's like - oh, I can't believe she's doing all this.

Why is she talking so much? Why is she doing, you know, why is she, you know, creating such a [00:31:00] stir? And my birth dad's like, Hey, you know, come on. She was a good kid. She, and, and, and then they, you know, and then they just sit and, you know, kinda laugh together. And I think that's sort of how I felt like, you know, I'm not a bad kid, you know, but I.

Yeah. So, I don't know as far as identity, I, I mean, I think it all comes down to identity. Like, I think all of it comes down to identity because when you're, you're told you can't ask, you can't ask about yourself. You don't know about yourself. You don't know what you look like. You don't know what, you know.

Where does my distaste of cilantro come from? Like where, you know, why, why is it that I, you know, not a great big fan of garlic? I don't know. I can't, I can't say that all of that's super genetic or identity oriented, but it is weird. 

Mike: Well, I heard friends. We were at a dinner party at a friend's house and their daughter was there - maybe it was Thanksgiving -

there were like four couples and the host's teenage daughter was there and she [00:32:00] was singing and then the parents said, "oh, you know, she sings just like her grandmother. Her grandmother sang. And, and just in that moment, I, I thought. Never had that, never had that grounding piece of information. No.

Must be nice. 

Ruth: Yeah. You say that - that's funny because my grandfather and my father on my adoptive family we re both. They could sit down at the piano and play by ear - I mean really, really well. So, I thought this was just something that everyone could do and you just sat down at a piano.

But I didn't, you know, obviously I didn't get that gene. I didn't realize like you had to practice and you had to learn how to read music. They didn't do any of that. So it was just really, yeah, it was really weird. The other thing I wanted to mention is that my father's family, my adoptive father's family was really into genealogy.

And now [00:33:00] I think that's really confusing. It's to an adoptee because you're looking at this family, you know it's not your family, but you're supposed to be taking pride in this heritage and, and you're grabbing onto this stuff that you think is yours and. It just is really weird and you know, people saying you come from a long line of whatever it is, right?

No, I don't. No, I, I don't come from a long line. We can, we can put that costume on if you want, but I don't come from that long line. Mm-Hmm. So, telling me I do is just really confusing and 

Mike: There are daily things. I often look at Wikipedia. And I was looking up Jake Gyllenhaal for some reason.

I think because I like the movie_ Zodiac_ because it's about people obsessively looking for something - for [00:34:00] this killer. And that was me every day obsessing about finding my family. But Jake Gyllenhaal comes from the Gyllenhaal family, which is this art family that goes back generations.

And this. I still feel that when I read that from the, from the Fonda family or something, so, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess, I guess for me it's this feeling of, okay, I'm not this isolated atom in the universe so much anymore. I am, I'm connected to a lineage even though right now I'm kind of between two families.

I have no contact with the adoptive family by choice for survival sake, and then I'm not really connected with the birth family. Either, you know? Because they've lived their own lives and they're in the middle of America. But nonetheless, you know, I still don't feel like that floating atom, you know?

Yeah. You have a touchstone now. I think that's how I kind of feel about it, or I know. I felt like I was an [00:35:00] island for a really long time. Right. And now maybe I feel like I'm on one of those like feeder rivers that goes through, like goes through a piece of land. Piece of land. Like you're sort of here and you're sort of there and Yeah.

I'm am just fascinated by history and I'm fascinated by my, I'm, I mean, I still look at ancestry. I still dig and I still look up every little, you know, different person and I have all these fantastic stories and. And it's just, yeah. I mean, and I, I know that from both sides of the family because my, my, my family of experience was just so into it.

So yeah, you're right. 

Well, how do you deal, how have you dealt with the changes from. Searching and finding, is it just you, you plugged into the adoptee world or do you, that's part of it. Do you [00:36:00] jog? Do you meditate? 

Ruth: I think most of my life, I've done all kinds of things that have been coping coping mechanisms.

~I, I,~ I'm much more in line with my artistic side. I do, I still am really athletic. I still do all that kind of stuff. Still swim all the time. But yeah, I, I think this is kind of constant. I, I, I mean, I've gone through some low times. I have, and I've also gone through some times where I, I, I'm not sure I know what I want.

And I think that's sort of what you're talking about too. Like - what do I want to do now? Okay, I got this info. What, what do I do now? And. I kind of just wanna start slapping people and going, Hey, you know, this was a big deal! Like this is, and I said this before, like, something happened here and if you told me about this, I would've been able to figure this out.

Mike: Well, I always say when I found my dad, it was like, [00:37:00] okay, I'm finally at the starting line of life. Yeah. Okay. You know? And, so, I almost feel like engulfed that - what do they have a handicap, you know? Yeah. You can start ahead. Like, I feel like there should be something here.

You know, I've been saying lately, I think Catholic Charities owes me a couple hundred thousand dollars of lost income, which the charities and, yeah, 

Ruth: Well, I mean, and you look at other countries and they're finally acknowledging what they've done to indigenous people and other, you know, in other places.

But I'm not sure that's all that different than what happened with adoption in our country. We were, you know, 

Mike: erase your, erase your of identity. Yeah. 

Ruth: I mean, and I, I do have a different heritage than what I was told. I'm mostly Scandinavian and. And people look at me and go, well that's, you know, kind of the same.

And I'm like, yeah, I asked the people in, you know, Hitler's era, you know, different, different language, different country. You know, we weren't, I wasn't that much German. I was a little German, but I wasn't that much German. [00:38:00] And yeah. So, you know why, why it's not racial? No, I ha I mean, listen, I'm, I'm, I'm blessed.

I have everything I've ever needed and all of those material things. Yes, I'm grateful for all that. It's just that sometimes that's not what life's about. It's about, you know, kind of the sense of self and the sense of belonging, and I just think we kind of we're faking it for a long, long, long time.



Mike: That sounds like a good ending. Yeah, I think that's a good ending.