How Esper Is Building the Operating System for Government Policy | Maleka Momand

Maleka Momand, co-founder and CEO of Esper, joins Sophie Buonassisi on GTMnow to break down what it actually takes to build and sell software to government. Esper is the operating system for government policy, serving as the system of record for the regulation and internal policy that shapes daily life, from NYPD procedures to nurse practitioner licensing in rural Tennessee.

Maleka shares hard-won lessons from 8 years in GovTech: why winning trust matters more than winning business, why professional services are a moat (not a cost center), and how Esper turns slow, paper-based policy processes into live digital workflows. She also covers the DOGE effect across red and blue states, why enterprise SaaS still has defensible moats in the age of AI, and her advice to founders entering regulated markets.

Whether you're a founder, GTM leader, or operator selling into complex, slow-moving markets, this conversation is packed with practical playbooks on trust, go-to-market, and building durable enterprise software.

Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:44 Two types of government policy (regulation vs internal)
02:06 The NYPD 3,000-page policy problem
03:23 Digitizing a paper-based, 20-person workflow
04:12 Why policy is infrastructure
05:23 Real impact: Tennessee healthcare & Arkansas hunting licenses
07:45 Esper's ideal customer: complexity, catalyst, volume
08:18 Going to market in GovTech (and why it's slow)
10:16 Advice for founders entering GovTech: win trust first
11:27 Why professional services are a moat
12:38 In-house vs third-party services
13:49 What DOGE actually looks like on the ground
15:11 Is DOGE a tailwind for Esper?
16:36 The new funding round & enterprise SaaS in the age of AI
19:13 From VC to founder: why Maleka made the shift
22:10 Advice for founders: read fiction, not productivity books
24:14 AI, data quality, and the problem with vibe coding
26:43 How Esper uses AI internally (meet "Poly")
27:27 Building a high-agency culture while scaling
29:00 Closing thoughts

Connect with Maleka Momand: 
Co-founder, CEO of Esper
Twitter/X: @MalekaMomand 
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/malekamomand

Host: Sophie Buonassisi, SVP at GTMnow
Follow Sophie: https://x.com/sophiebuona
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophiebuonassisi/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Internally, as a business owner, you know, everyone has a vibe code account, but there needs to be like parameters and ROI around it versus just vibe coding. Well, it's a moment. Co-founder is CEO of Expert. Expert is an operating system for government policy. We work with government agencies across the US to serve as their source of truth and their system of record for all of the regulation and policy that impacts our daily life.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

What are you seeing on the ground in regards to DOE?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Without being spicy, I'm seeing a lot of committees. And whenever I see a committee in government, like I have one of my eyebrows raises, because it's usually where ideas go to die. Really analyze how you can win trust faster. I'm not saying win business, I'm saying win trust because governments are so risk averse. They're looking for reasons not to trust you.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Any advice to anyone entering maybe a couple steps behind you into the government. Malika, hi. Welcome to GTM Now. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. It's great to have you here. And for anyone unfamiliar with Esper, give us a little bit of context to what ESPR is, what you're building.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Esper is an operating system for government policy. We work with government agencies across the US to serve as their source of truth and their system of record for all of the regulation and policy that impacts our daily lives.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Excellent. And it's funny because we've turned so many things into software, marketing, sales, finance, all the different functions. And policy is something that impacts every single country, but it's one of the things that has been probably slowest to be transformed. So I'm curious, like in a government agency, like what does policy actually look like before it's transformed at least?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

There are sort of two types of policies. Um, one is citizen-facing, so that's regulation. And I'm guessing most of the listeners to this podcast uh have heard of regulation or interacted with it in some way, whether you're you know interacting with local zoning regulations or trying to open a business or dealing with the SEC, you name it, um, regulation is more public-facing and impacts what we can and can't do. There's also internal facing policy in a government agency, which is equally important. This is the policy that governs uh, you know, what government employees uh and how they how they operate every single day. So it's the policies and procedures that the NYPD police officers follow, or it's uh, you know, the policies that a caseworker in Louisiana needs to make sure they abide by when they're investigating a social welfare case. Um both of these are really important um and they have different impacts on how we live. But before Esper, or really even 10 years ago, regulation and policy was a very paper-driven and manual process. The process of developing policy was a very additive and sort of labor-intensive process where they're like actually passing around manila folders uh in a government agency to develop this policy and ultimately syndicate it out to the people that need to abide by it.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

And you work with the NYPD, but they've got this 3,000-page document, I believe, that needs constant updating. So before Esper, they were just passing around the pages.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah, it was they had like actual books that would sit in every single police car. And so what would happen is you'd have like one person driving to the scene and another person like flipping through the book, being like, okay, okay, what is the policy on this? Yeah. Um, and anytime they made an update to the policy, they would have to go to each of the books and like tape over with the new version of the policy. So extremely manual. But if you like zoom out, the bigger issue there is like it was very hard to have uh consistent enforcement and uh sort of compliance with the policy. So, you know, maybe uh a police officer in Manhattan was following a version of a policy from 2015, but someone in Brooklyn was doing something from 2022. And so it's this inconsistent delivery of service to citizens, and it also exposes, you know, government agencies to a fair amount of risk if they don't have all of their employees literally on the same page about what they need to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

I I can imagine. And you said that or I heard you say, I believe, that one policy has an average of about 20 people collaborating on it, which is a tremendous amount of people. And so, how is that kind of change happening amongst so many different people?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

So, pre-ESPR, like I said, this would all be happening in a mail of folder where you'd have like a lawyer review it and then they'd, you know, actually physically sign off on it and then send it to someone else's desk, et cetera, et cetera. And so it's a very slow process, but also a lot of institutional knowledge and decision-making rationale like wasn't captured in that paper-based process. In Esper, um, you know, the first thing that we did when we started the company was, you know, build out a digital workflow where they're actually collaborating on these documents live and then sending them around for review across lawyers, subject matter experts, people in the field to get their input and then ultimately, you know, develop the final product and then publish it digitally. So it's like, like many enterprise SaaS companies, the first part of building the company was actually taking what the manual workflow was and then creating a digital process for it.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

And something that I've heard you say is that by policy is infrastructure. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Policy is is like a blueprint for all of the little rules that we have that govern how we how we live and work. What I mean by that is if you want to, you know, apply for a business license or you know, get certain benefits or contest uh a traffic violation, whatever it might be, um, policy is sort of the upstream blueprint that creates like a rules engine for what you can and can't do in any of those given scenarios. So if you think about the the government functions of permitting and licensing, licensing enforcement, um, the lady at the DMV who gives you your actual driver's license, all of those workflows are governed by regulation and policy. And so it's it's like this uh sort of business logic that fuels all of these different sorts of solutions in GovTech and in government generally.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Let's take an example. You named a couple there, but something that people would tangibly feel in like their day-to-day.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah. Well, I'll give a couple. During COVID, one of our customers is the state of Tennessee, and the Tennessee Department of Health was really trying to get improved access to healthcare in rural areas. And what I mean by that is like in Nashville and in Memphis, they have doctors and they have hospitals, but in the middle of nowhere, Tennessee, not so much, right? They more have nurse practitioners or nurses' assistants, uh, physicians' assistants, et cetera. But they were having a shortage of those nurse practitioners and they needed to make sure that people, you know, in more rural areas could have access to those NPs. And so what they did is they went inside of Esper and dramatically changed the licensing requirements for nurse practitioners to sort of reduce the barriers to entry so that Tennessee could have more nurse practitioners and thus have more access to healthcare in rural areas. So that would really matter during COVID when you know there was a uh a big and dramatic shortage in healthcare workers. And that impact was felt in Tennessee. So that's one example. Another example might be my home state of Arkansas, the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. Like we truly work with all types of agencies because all of them have regulation and policy. They wanted to change how their regulations uh for out-of-state hunters worked. Um, to basically give more uh sort of credits to the local hunters in Arkansas and then sort of charge more to the out-of-state ones. Um, and the way that they change their regulations actually reflects that. So people in Arkansas have an easier time getting game tags is a little bit more pricey for out of state, but it also because it's pricier for the out-of-state hunters, there's way more uh economic vitality and growth contributed to the state of Arkansas. So the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission is like now a revenue generating agency. Yeah. Um, so all types of different examples where agencies are using our software to make, manage, and then systematically update their regulations to reflect what they want to have happen in their state. It's an outcome-driven system. So whether that's increasing healthcare access in rural areas or driving more economic growth in Arkansas, um, these are all things that are achievable because they're actually using our software to implement those changes.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

That's incredible. I mean, you can see the impact across so many different use cases and areas too.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

It can be overwhelming, honestly. Sometimes when we meet with investors, they're like, right, what part of the market are you targeting? And they really want us to say we only work with health agencies or we only work with fish and game agencies. But the reality is, you know, Esper wins when there's uh a catalyst complexity and volume. We call it CCV. Um, we like really complex agencies with large amounts of regulation and policy. We like catalyst and change agents in government that are, you know, tired of the status quo and want to do something different. And volume is like they have a lot of work to do and they want to do it inside of Esper.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

That's super, super fascinating. And I mean, GovTech is an interesting area unto itself. What has it been like going to market with GovTech, which is renowned to be one of kind of the slower moving entities to be able to sell to?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Well, I mean, I know where to start here. So started the company in 2018, and that was just a whole different enchilada, honestly. Um, meaning that, you know, we would go and pitch government agencies and we would explain that we were cloud-based, and they would say, What does that mean? And they'd ask if we were mainframe, and I was like, What does that mean? It was like totally, you know, not understanding. But I think that GovTech in general has caught up or the adoption curve is getting there. Um, governments are traditionally slower on the adoption curve because they're fairly risk averse. If they, you know, spend a lot of money on a software program that doesn't work, there's gonna be a headline about it and someone's gonna get voted out of office, right? Or there are gonna be consequences. Whereas if in the private sector we spend a lot of money on a software and it doesn't work out, we're like, cut our losses and we move on, but there's probably not gonna be a headline about it. Yeah. Um, so there's a lot of risk aversion. And then also the barriers to entry for getting started in government are quite high. Um, procurement hurdles and sales cycles are very long. In order to do business with the government, you often need to get like an inordinate amount of security and uh, you know, different audits and compliance certifications. So, what that means for incumbents is they have a pretty protected moat because once you're in, it's very sticky and hard to displace. Um, but for new entrants into the GovTech space, it's expensive and time consuming. And you have to have patient capital behind you that's okay, that that recognizes it's gonna be, you know, three years probably before you really get your foot in the door and start to prove value in the government space because it just takes a while.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

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SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah. I think the there are two things that really stand out to me. One is really analyze how you can win trust faster. I'm not saying win business, I'm saying win trust because governments are so risk averse. Um, they're looking for reasons not to trust you. Uh, and you need to give them a lot of reasons to trust you and show that you're a solid qualified vendor, whether that's creating an advisory board with um government officials or sort of influencers that are highly regarded in the government space, whether that's doing low-cost pilots to get some logos on your website and some credible case studies. Um, those are just a few examples. Sometimes hiring lobbyists can be a really good way to, you know, buy some trust when you're a newer entrant into the space. But that's sort of one theme is you've got to earn trust with government agencies to overcome that like initial risk aversion. The second is don't underestimate the power of professional services and implementation. And this was a big lesson for me because I was coming from Silicon Valley, where you know, you like give someone their login and they're off to the races and you kind of never talk to them again unless you want some feedback on a new product you're building. But in government, they expect a uh certain level and quality of professional services. I mean, we have a you know part of our team right now in Topeka, Kansas that is truly leading a live training with a hundred people in a room, um, walking them through how to use the software. So show me a picture of that. I did, yeah. I mean, and I love it. It's it's kind of unique to the GovTech space. Um, but services can be a great revenue driver for GovTech companies as well, but it also protects against uh, you know, retention or churn, uh challenges and ultimately goes back to winning trust. If you make the time to show up in Topeka, Kansas or Baton Rouge, Louisiana, you're showing that you really care and you're invested in the partnership. It's not that it's just gonna be software that you toss to them and it becomes shelfware. So building trust and second, really investing in a strong professional services motion so that you can really screw the software in and you know have less fear about it churning from from weak adoption a year from now.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

And do you have any advice around building out that professional service internally versus partnering with a third party?

SPEAKER_01 14:40

I really wouldn't partner with a third party uh early on. I mean, we're eight years in and we still don't have third-party partnerships for services because that feedback loop from the customer is so important. And if you outsource it too soon, I think you just risk not hearing, you know, someone grumble about something in a training that you take back to the product team and you know could do better. Yeah. So I think try and keep as much as you can in-house. Professional services is hard because, you know, it is a a people heavy and thus capital heavy operation inside of a company. So I think building internal discipline around, okay, you know, we forecast this number of projects. That means we roughly need this number of people hours, and that means you sort of back into your hiring or headcount for that team. Yeah. That's really important to get right. Otherwise, professional services teams can can really like expand quickly. So being super mindful of the how how you're sort of backing into the number of headcount there is key.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Interesting. Okay, super helpful advice. And one of the the big kind of recent stories or headlines around government is doge. And you've been building in governments and with governments for about eight years now. What are you seeing on the ground in regards to Doge?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Without being spicy, I'm seeing a lot of we we welcome spice on GTM now. I'm seeing a lot of committees. Okay. And whenever I see a committee in government, like I have one of my eyebrows raises because it's usually where ideas go to die, is in committee. Um so there are versions of Doge being uh stood up across all states, red and blue. Um and I think the intention is there. And uh it's more about actually putting resources behind it and holding the committees and the resources accountable. Otherwise, it becomes a headline, but there's really no story um or result, you know, a year from now. So I guess my my take would be I would love to get a readout six months a year from now to see what actually Doge accomplished. I mean, at the federal level, I think there was some questions raised about how much I mean the Doge themselves said we didn't, we weren't able to accomplish what we wanted to, and that's at the federal level with a ton of support. Right. At the state level, are we gonna see actual outcomes from that? I'm not sure yet. A lot of committees right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

I want to see more action. More action. You mentioned Doge and Esper run across both blue and red states. Is Doge a tailwind for Esper or what is that relationship like?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I think it's a tailwind. Um, it's been a nice opportunity to sort of resurface a lot of older work that we've done because when we started Esper in 2018, really the driving narrative was like government efficiency and uh regulatory reform. And as we've grown, our sort of mission and the narrative has changed to, you know, talk about outcomes and consistent delivery of service to citizens, like the NYPD examples I talked about. But I think it's a tailwind for us because we get to go into states like New Jersey or Louisiana and say, hey, here's case studies that we've done for the past five years in Iowa and Montana and in Tennessee, and give like real concrete proof points of here's how they um, you know, cleaned up regulation, made the sort of regulatory environment less burdensome for for bit businesses and citizens, all of that. So I think tailwind, maybe I feel like a little bit grumbly that I mean, we've been doing this for eight years and it's finally catching on. But I guess that's the government adoption curve.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

I'm not sure. It is and it's often how it goes in every market. Like people are a little bit ahead of the curve, and then typically the market catches up. But because you're there and because you've established a lot of relationships, it can create quite quite a lot of consolidation, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, fantastic. And I mean, you can see that in terms of outcomes. You recently announced a new round of fundraising. Congratulations. We'd love to hear a little bit more um around the announcement, just for listeners unfamiliar with it, and then what the future for Espera looks like. I'm sure you're hiring across a bunch of roles too.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yeah. But off off air, we were talking about the hate that Enterprise SaaS is getting right now or the doubts swimming around Enterprise SaaS. Um SaaS, pocalypse, all of the things. Um and I think that the funding round is a nice uh, again, like validation marker. The Enterprise SaaS isn't going anywhere. And actually, a lot of Enterprise SaaS companies have um huge defensible modes if they use them correctly. And so the funding round is for us to use them correctly. What I mean by that is I think enterprise SaaS defensibility in the age of AI is uh largely around context and you know, 10 plus years of uh compounding data that's been well organized and is now ready to deploy. It's around exceptional services, which I think become more valuable in the age of AI. And then I also think it's around the quality and the ability of a company to do integrations with other sort of vendors and uh sort of partners in the tech stack of their of their customer. So context and data, uh, integrations, services, all of that really matters. Um, but I think the problem for a lot of enterprise SaaS companies is you know, they've been around for 10 years, maybe they're a little tired, and now they're like, oh my God, we have to completely pivot and change again. Yeah. I don't think Esper is pivoting by any means. Um, but really what we're doing is doubling down internally on our usage of AI tooling and then leveling up how we do expert services for our customers and the quality of integrations and using our data correctly for our customers. So the funding round is really driving that. And yes, we are hiring on every team right now. And the the company is eight years old, but it also feels like we're just getting started. Yeah. There's so much fresh momentum from the sort of dogetail wins, the funding rounds, um, government interest in uh more modern technology. And uh I think that a lot of GovTech companies that have been around for our time are are also seeing like a renaissance in government's um willingness and readiness to buy.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

I mean, that's fantastic. We're super happy for you and all the momentum. And it's been incredible to see your growth over the years and excited to see what happens now with the new funding. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Come back in a year and I'll I'll tell you all the exactly. We'll sit down here again, we'll have our drinks ready and and catch up on it. But you know, your background is actually on the venture capital side yourself. What inspired the shift?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Well, the year was like 2015, 2016, and I mean the entrepreneurial energy in San Francisco is incredible. Like, you know, I was like fresh out of Arkansas, moved to the Bay Area, started working with Joe Lonsdale at 8 VC, and was just so inspired by all of the portfolio companies that I got to interact with and um meet with the founders, learn about their challenges and obstacles. And at the time and still today, um, so many portfolio companies are operating in highly regulated spaces where the regulations uh are outdated and just not matching the needs and wants of the consumer and the capabilities of technology. And so, time and time again in the Bay Area, I would just meet with founders. That we're like, we're facing regulatory barriers to entry from you know the federal housing authority or the SEC or whatever you name it. Um, and that really sparked my interest in like, how does all of this regulation and policy really work? Governments appear to be producing thousands of regulations and policies every year. What operating system exists? And we started digging in and realized that actually there is no operating system. It's kind of paper-based. Yeah. Um, and so built Espert from that. And um, it was hard because coming from the Bay Area, I had to shed some conventional beliefs about how a tech company should be built because I just found they didn't translate to gov tech like services, for example. That just didn't grok with what the sort of gospel was in the Bay Area at the time. I think that's shifted, but I had to learn a whole new market. And um, you know, at the time, like the YC articles, Zero to One by Peter Thiel, those were the big books that everyone was reading. And some of the lessons applied and some of them didn't. And so figuring that out was was challenging. But I obviously I I love being in the builder's seat, then on the other side of it. No offense.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

No offense taken. We always say that it's valuable to be on both sides, you know, to be a a practitioner, you have such an advantage and kind of purview on the venture and investing side, being on the ground. And then similarly on the venture side, if you're not actually operating or shifting, a lot of people shift back and forth. Yeah, it's really easy to become remote. So, you know, for us, incubating companies has been a really good way of like getting our feet on the ground, yeah. Kind of sitting on both sides and learning from going through a fundraise process ourselves and things like that. Yeah. Better informed as investors. Cause yeah, they're they're very different perspectives to have different perspectives, equally valuable. Yeah. And incredibly valuable to have yourself as a founder, having been on the VC side.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah, it was easy to anticipate all of the questions we would get in when we were fundraising early on. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

And you know, you mentioned you've read a couple of books and some of the lessons applied and some of them didn't. So I'm curious for yourself, being eight years in building and also having sat on the venture side for a lot of founders that are perhaps earlier in their journey. What are some of the key pieces of advice or lessons that you've learned along the way just around company building in general? Might not pertain specifically to GovTech, but just as a founder.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah. So I am anti-productivity books. Um the only like book I really love is No Rules Rules by Reed Hastings, the Netflix CEO. Like, what a great book. But I actually way prefer reading autobiographies and just like fiction books that really inspire one to go do hard things. So, for example, I really love the book The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt. I love Lonesome Dove. And the the sort of through line that all of these books have is the characters, the protagonists have um sort of like in an indomitable spirit, um, a love of their nation, yeah, and uh don't back down from hard challenges. So I actually uh one of my mentors has always encouraged me to read fiction um and let your imagination play and be inspired by characters. And I think that's a great lesson for founders. Like we get so much advice. Don't read the productivity book, like, read a great story that inspires you and makes you want to stay up all night finishing and finding out what happens to the character, and then take some of those lessons into your real life. So um, that's the piece of advice I would give to founders like read fiction.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yeah, that that's great advice. And I mean, storytelling is one of the most ancient ways that we have of actually disseminating and sharing information. Yeah. Without fiction, it becomes harder to actually have that imagination spurred. Yeah. Brilliant. And some good recommendations in there. We'll have those in the show notes for anyone looking for a everyone who used to read Lonesome Dove.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

I mean, even dumb. Yeah. It's like maybe I already read it myself.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

So good. It's so good. But it'll be next. It'll be next on my list. That's definitely the one just prepare yourself with a long read. That's awesome. Um, got a last question for you, Malica. Is you've talked a little bit about AI and what it can do around uh productivity, but also increasing chaos, if you will, when things are not structured correctly. Curious what your take is there because you've seen such unstructured data or such kind of complicated policies and documentation that needs transformation. So really curious on your take around AI, not space.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

The biggest sort of blocker or slowdown when we are implementing uh with a new customer is the quality of their data. Um, usually it's in PDFs that need to be migrated to DocX and then, you know, or OCR and then structured inside of our platform, and then it becomes usable. Yeah. Um, so we're seeing a lot of like chief AI officers and government soliciting AI tools, which I think is great. But my my piece of advice is like the the underlying data quality like isn't quite there yet. And there needs to be investment in making that really usable, um, which S where helps do. Other other companies help do as well. Otherwise, like it's not that valuable. So on the customer side, that's true. And also internally, as a business owner, you know, everyone has a Claude Code account, but there needs to be like parameters and ROI around it versus just vibe coding too. For sure. Um, I kind of raise my eyebrows when companies just talk about all of their engineers vibe coding something. I'm like, is it good? Yeah. Uh you know, how much did you spend? Like uh making it. Action for outcome, not for action for amphibians. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like you have to build things that matter. That's uh a YC article or Paul Graham article, but yeah, um, yeah. The quality of the data, um, the expectation of what you want to get out from it needs to be there. Definitely. How are you using AI internally at Esper? Oh man, you have so many agents. Um, okay, the my favorite way that we actually do this is we've set up um a tool called Polly. Okay. Where um it helps new team members really onboard quickly. Polly has been trained on all of our customer videos, all of our internal content, so that when a new person at Esper onboards, they're sort of being taught by Polly about how Esper works and what our customers care about and our value props and the product, um, common objections, et cetera. Um, and like that's a really practical way that uh has helped new people get up to speed faster. And then it continually reinforces and gets smarter as as we learn more about our customer.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah, that that's fantastic. And um I'm sure that'll be helpful with all the roles that you're hiring for too soon here, especially as you hire more and more.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yeah. Um, look, we are we're cranking right now. Like the demand for software has never been higher in government. Um, the budgets are there and we're trying to keep up. So if anyone is interested, check out Esper.com slash careers.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Esper.com slash careers. Yeah. It's a very exciting time and an ideal place to have the demand. Okay, so you're hiring a ton of roles. What what is the culture within Esper as you're scaling?

SPEAKER_01 29:22

So we're a GovTech company, and I think that the number one thing I look for with people that we hire is uh interest in having a career that's meaningful, that they can truly share and be proud of with their family and colleagues and friends, and you know, sort of evangelize. Uh so meaningful and wanting to make an impact in the world, and especially in our government, one of our oldest institutions is a big part of our culture. Um we're a high agency culture. We really value individual liberty for ourselves and for others. Um, we're not an ask-for-permission culture, we're a do-it culture. And what I really love about our team is that uh people like to push themselves professionally and also personally. Um, you know, people are doing Iron Man championships and, you know, performing in violin recitals, all of that to say like they're these are well-rounded team members that are high integrity, high agency uh people. And, you know, our retention rate at the company is like quite high because people like working here and like making a difference, that meaningful impact.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

And we talk a lot about, of course, in the investment space from all all the articles around good quests, pursuing good quests. And I think it's safe to say Esper is a very, very good quest for somebody looking for an impactful career.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

A good quest. Like going back to the not to bring up lonesome dev again, but like, you know, uh being able to tell a great story about what you do and the impacts that you have for other people is in my mind like the best part of having a rewarding career.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Incredible. Maleka, this has been a fantastic conversation. Really appreciate the time. Thank you for joining. Thank you. I think Sophie appreciate it. Yeah.