Treat Your Business

127 Boost Retention and Profitability in Your Clinic with Darren Rieck

• Katie Bell / Darren Reick • Season 1 • Episode 127

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Welcome to this week’s episode of the Treat Your Business Podcast! I’m your host, Katie Bell, and I’m thrilled to bring you a fascinating conversation with Darren Rieck, physiotherapist, former clinic owner, and co-founder of Nookal, this episode’s sponsor.

In this episode, Darren and I dive into one of the most important metrics every clinic owner needs to track to ensure profitability and long-term success. 

✨ Here’s what we cover:

  • Why retention rates are one of the most critical metrics for clinic profitability.
  • The psychology of patient retention and how to create a seamless patient experience.
  • How to use data and benchmarks to make informed, objective business decisions.
  • The power of automation and AI in improving clinic efficiency and patient outcomes.
  • Practical tips for building trust and achieving better patient retention.

💡 Key Takeaways:

  • Retention equals profitability: Learn how to track and improve your retention rates.
  • Simplify and automate: Discover how Nookal’s innovative software can help you manage your clinic more efficiently.
  • Build trust: Understand the psychology behind patient retention and how to create a plan that works for both you and your patients.

🌟 Nookal Links:

📢 Episode Sponsor:
This episode is proudly sponsored by Nookal, the practice management software that empowers Allied Health clinics to unlock their full potential. From scheduling and invoicing to reporting and automation, Nookal gives you the tools you need to save time, improve efficiency, and grow your business.

Treat Your Business podcast is proudly sponsored by MBST, the groundbreaking technology revolutionising recovery and rehabilitation. Offering a non-invasive, drug-free solution for musculoskeletal conditions and nerve injuries, MBST works at a cellular level to stimulate regeneration. Expand your services and deliver long-term patient improvements without increasing your workload.

Learn more at mbstmedical.co.uk. 

[00:00:01] Katie Bell: Everybody. Welcome to this week's episode. I have a guest for you this week, and we are gonna be talking about one of. If not the most important metric that you need to be tracking in your clinic, whatever size you are and why. You also need to make sure that you have a benchmark for this metric. So if you wanna know more, stay tuned in and listen to this short, sharp very interesting episode [00:00:30] with Darren. 

[00:00:31] Welcome to the Treat Your Business Podcast with Katie Bell. I'm Katie, and this is the place where clinic owners like you learn the strategies, tools, and mindset shifts needed to transform your clinic into a thriving business. One that gives you more time, more money, and more freedom. Born from a passion to challenge the idea that average is normal.

[00:00:54] We empower clinic owners to create extraordinary businesses, incomes, and lives [00:01:00]through our world class coaching programs. We help you step out of overwhelm and into confidence, turning your clinic into a business that fuels your lifestyle, not drain it. So are you ready? Let's dive in. I'm delighted to tell you this episode of The Treat Your Business podcast is proudly brought to you by Nookal, the leading practice management software designed to streamline operations and empower every Allied Health clinic.

[00:01:25] Their platform seamlessly handles every aspect of your clinic. From scheduling and [00:01:30] clinical note taking to invoicing and reporting, their innovative solution will help streamline your clinic and free up your valuable time, allowing you to focus on delivering better patient care and growing your business.

[00:01:43] So if you are tired of juggling multiple systems and wasting precious hours on administrative tasks, then experience the innovation of Nookal and discover how it can improve the efficiency and profitability of your practice. Visit Nookal.com today [00:02:00] to learn more about how their automated features and user friendly interface can revolutionize the way you manage your practice.

[00:02:08] Unlock the full potential of your clinic with Nookal the practice management software that puts you in control of your time. Now, let's get back to business.

[00:02:21] I don't know whether to say good morning or good evening to you. 

[00:02:25] Darren Rieck: how you going, Katie. 

[00:02:27] Katie Bell: It's appropriate, isn't it? For both you it, it's [00:02:30] cross ponds as 

[00:02:31] Darren Rieck: it's night time over here. 

[00:02:33] Katie Bell: You know, time for you. It's morning for me. Welcome to the Treat Your Business podcast. Super excited to have you here Darren. Thank you for giving up your time to speak to our listeners.

[00:02:44] Darren Rieck: Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. 

[00:02:46] Katie Bell: You are welcome. So we first met Darren across the way at Therapy Expo. 

[00:02:50] Like last year, was it? Yeah, last November. 

[00:02:52] Darren Rieck: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:02:53] Katie Bell: and we got chatting. You were there exhibiting as we were. So for our listeners, tell [00:03:00] everybody who you are and where you're from.

[00:03:02] Darren Rieck: So my background is I am a physiotherapist. I did physiotherapy for 22 years. I sold my physio clinic around four, five years ago, just before covid. I specialized in the cervical spine, so I've got a master's degree from in research cervical spine, and then I utlised that in private practice.

[00:03:27] So we had two [00:03:30] locations across multiple sites. Had a multidisciplinary clinic, so I had physios pods, massage therapists, EP's, psychs, and OTs in the clinic. Yeah, and it was it was successful, but we developed a software system within the practice. My partner, my wife is a management accountant

[00:03:48] so we set up a software system to be able to manage the clinic, or the sites

[00:03:55] as a business. Right. And then when we sold the clinic, we took that with us and that's [00:04:00] where Nookal sort of birthed out five, five, six years ago really. So it was, yeah, it's been good. It's been a good, tough five years, but we're getting there. And yeah, that's right. That's so, and I guess, I guess having that background of being a practice owner.

[00:04:15] And the therapist myself gives me a lot of insight into understanding what the needs are. And software has changed significantly in the last, even two to three years with compliance automation and AI obviously. And we're looking [00:04:30] at all of those sort of things right now. 

[00:04:32] Katie Bell: Yeah.

[00:04:32] And I think that's really powerful, isn't it, Darren? Because one of the things that I think we do really well in Thrive is that we come from real experience, and so we produce real results and you are the same. You've been there, you've done it, you've walked the walk, you've taught the talk.

[00:04:47] You've seen what there wasn't in, in terms of software a hundred 

[00:04:51] percent, and the 

[00:04:52] failures. And then you've been able to, I guess, you know, build this out of a passion for knowing what clinic owners [00:05:00] really need to ensure they are running a profitable company.

[00:05:04] Darren Rieck: You've hit the nail on the head. Profitable company is what we want. Like I had a real drive myself personally, to see the allied health profession more successful than what we are currently. We're very empathetic. We're very good at treating people. However, like a lot like dentistry, for example, they have mastered the art of marketing their businesses really well.

[00:05:27] We need to do that in our profession. And it all comes back [00:05:30] to outcome measures, data reporting, making objective decisions. 'cause a lot of us physios, we run our practice based on how we're feeling and 'cause we're so busy as well, we're not running it like a business. And if we can get the information in, even automate the information and then the data will be able to help us make objective decisions.

[00:05:50] I think that's really important. 

[00:05:51] Katie Bell: Yeah, it really is. And I'm really glad that we're chatting about this Darren. 'cause this is something I'm banging on about all the time. We've got to up level our [00:06:00] industry and I've worked 

[00:06:01] Darren Rieck: a hundred percent, 

[00:06:02] Katie Bell: I presented it a few dentistry conferences actually years ago now.

[00:06:05] You know, when you were in the phase of I just need to be everything to everybody and I didn't know what I was doing.

[00:06:12] That I was always blown away by, by the level that they were at in terms of their marketing. And their profitability and how they were functioning. And then recently we've been more and more involved with the pods and the, and podiatry and for health professionals.

[00:06:26] Yes. And 

[00:06:26] that's really surprising me as well, that.

[00:06:29] They are [00:06:30] even a level that seems different to us, physios or sports therapists, massage therapists. And it's made really kind of see that this even bigger gap in our industry. We are absolutely so far. 

[00:06:42] Darren Rieck: Absolutely. And that, and we are in my personal. Belief. I think we're really good at what we do, excellent at what we do, and we need to be rewarded for that.

[00:06:51] So I think that's where I want to be able to help people with the software we're giving them. Like we really can assist you in growing your practice. [00:07:00] Yeah. Streamline, automate and grow. Like that's really what you should be doing. 

[00:07:04] Katie Bell: Yeah, absolutely. So 

[00:07:06] with your software because people have got choices, haven't they, on the market?

[00:07:09] Darren Rieck: Hundred percent. 

[00:07:10] Katie Bell: They, there's lots of different ones out there, but what I really like about you, Darren, is that you get straight to the nitty gritty of what's the most important thing, and then your software goes and delivers on that. And you heard me talk at the therapy expo, talking about retention rates patient value, average retention rate, whatever you wanna call [00:07:30] it for me is one of, if not the most important metric that you need to be. Looking in your clinic alongside profit. But retention rate really equals profitability as long as you are, you know, ensuring that retention rate is at a certain level, 

[00:07:45] Darren Rieck: correct. 

[00:07:47] Katie Bell: As how, you've developed the software to, kind of ensure that they're tracking it in an optimal way, and then they're then able to make the right decisions based on what they're seeing. [00:08:00]

[00:08:00] Darren Rieck: So that's a good, that's a great question. So there's a number of things you need to probably consider. It's like your PVA, what's your patient visit average?

[00:08:07] Once your benchmark, what's your customer lifetime? What's your occupancy rate? And what is your average visit value for example, four or five metrics. What you wanna do is get that data on a monthly basis, looking at trends and setting benchmarks of what you're looking achieve.

[00:08:27] Billing, how we in [00:08:30] practice.

[00:08:38] But it can be done better. Yeah. Then we've got block visits so you can prepay or buy a package or a session number of sessions and, you know, that's a good thing as well. But there's a ceiling on that. There's an auto, there's a direct debit, like, so a lot of classes and what have you do that, which is a really good method.

[00:08:58] And there's prepaid plans, [00:09:00] which you can provide a bit of a discount too. One of the things that I used to do in my clinic is I used to want to look at a PBA, so of four to six. So I would say my therapist of what is what's worth?

[00:09:18] Get a good outcome with your patient. So you're not gonna fix someone in one session. It's impossible. But what you need to say, and I say

[00:09:29] anywhere. [00:09:30] Then maybe it's not working or we're gonna see this change. So I would always bulk book, I would book four sessions upfront to give myself a chance to get the patient better. And so that's where the patient bulk books in and then they're bought in. Like you deliver the plan of what we're, what outcomes you wanna achieve, right?

[00:09:50] It. I don't know, front ankle, A TFL injury. It might be a wall of 10 centimeters, whatever it is, right? So when. [00:10:00] Do the payments over a period of time they've bought in and they feel like they feel like they're part of the journey. And I think you're gonna get better outcomes as therapists and you're also gonna get higher profitability and better rention in my opinion.

[00:10:14] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:10:15] And that aligns with how we do it in my clinic as well. We have, I was only talking about this on a masterclass yesterday and I, and they said, oh, you know, we're tracking retention. And I said, great. What's your standard? What 

[00:10:27] she, 

[00:10:27] Darren Rieck: what's benchmark? 

[00:10:28] Katie Bell: What's benchmark? [00:10:30] We don't have one.

[00:10:32] I said, so how does your therapist know what they're aiming for? What's, 

[00:10:35] Darren Rieck: that's right. 

[00:10:36] Katie Bell: How do you performance manage them? How do you develop them? How do you correct you? You measure them against anything. So having a benchmark is really important. It's not about being salesy. It's not about selling.

[00:10:48] Oh, don't even know. Something to somebody that they don't need. But it's giving the patient, facilitating the recovery and the achievement of those goals rather than just facilitating ongoing [00:11:00] pain because we're too afraid to have that conversation that actually this isn't just a pay as you go one session at a time.

[00:11:08] Darren Rieck: It doesn't 

[00:11:08] work. That one session at a time doesn't give retention and you're not actually doing the right thing by you as a therapist because you're not giving yourself the best chance to get that patient better. And I think if you can provide the outcomes you want at the end of four weeks, for example, and the patient sees those outcomes, they're gonna go, huh, this guy's really good.

[00:11:26] Or This girl's really good. I.[00:11:30]

[00:11:31] And then they're delivering on what they're doing and I think that's really important. I mean, I know that's why we developed the software. For example, like one of the things we've got in Nookal is cases, so for example, I used to treat a lot of whiplash associated disorders and servco headaches. So we've got cases in Nookal and I could tell after 12 months of data, what were the average number of sessions.

[00:11:52] I think I average.[00:12:00]

[00:12:00] A. On average, I take about five to six sessions to make a change. I said, let's do the four sessions straight up and then let's like do that once a week for the next four weeks. And then if you are feeling 75% better at that time, we'll book it out two weeks. Two weeks. And then after a couple of months I should be, I'll do a checkup in a month.

[00:12:19] There's your plan boom. And there's client retention. And I give them whole, so it's called.

[00:12:29] [00:12:30] ACL shoulder, subluxations, cervicogenic, whatever. You can allocate all these cases and work out what your average visit number is for these. That's really important as a therapist and that's gonna make us look better. Yeah, I think anyway. 

[00:12:43] Katie Bell: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:12:43] Absolutely. So the second thing I think. Worth talking about Darren, is that there's some psychology that goes on here, isn't there, around, 

[00:12:51] Around patient retention. I talk about this a lot in Thrive, and I'm really interested to hear your take on it. 

[00:12:56] Darren Rieck: You're probably better than me at it. I mean, look, yeah, I guess [00:13:00]the psychology it comes down to the burden of payment. There's an.

[00:13:08] I felt like when you, okay. The psychology of retention improved when you gave the patient achievable outcomes. Yeah. And you spread the burden of payment over time. That's the two things of how I did. I don't know what your thoughts are around that. And if I achieve these goals in. They the relationship with my patient, the trust [00:13:30] went through the roof.

[00:13:30] Yeah. And then they would believe me, believe what I would say more. And that's obviously important. You know, because you don't want hard sale sales. You just want to educate them on what the progress is and how that, how they're gonna track along that. And then if the payments are spread over time.

[00:13:47] Katie Bell: It's a win-win, isn't it? They, yeah, they, I mean, like, I, I do I do a puppet show. Darren, I won't bore you with the puppet show now, but I have a lizard and elephant and two buckets, and this is all about what's going on in the three parts of your [00:14:00] brain when somebody is trying to.

[00:14:01] Sell you something or advise you of something. But ultimately we have to build a like, know and trust factor up for people to feel comfortable in the moment of making that decision. Hundred percent that we can do that. But I think one of the things that we see a lot and I talk about a lot, is when people make a decision.

[00:14:20] To come for physio. So they've just, they've got woken up with another headache and they've decided to ring you, Darren, in your clinic because you are the expert at treating people with headaches. They, [00:14:30] when they book, they're in a state of what we call uninformed optimism. So they feel optimistic that they have made the booking, actually put it in the diary.

[00:14:40] You know they've done it. Yes. But they're uninformed because they have no idea at that stage that Darren, you might be saying to them, you need to change your chair. You need to start working at your desk for 12 hours a day. Correct. You need to do these exercises twice a day for the next six months. You need to take this supplement, you need to drink more, sleep more, reduce your stress.

[00:14:58] They've got no idea. We're gonna tell 'em [00:15:00] half of that stuff. So they're running for, but they're optimistic. Now what happens when we do an initial assessment quite often is they drop into something called informed pessimism, and that's because they've come to you down and you've done an amazing job, but they've just gone, shit, this is way worse than I thought it was.

[00:15:17] This isn't a one time fix. This isn't a quick massage. 

[00:15:21] Darren Rieck: That's right. That's right. 

[00:15:22] Yeah. 

[00:15:23] Katie Bell: I'm now informed, but I'm now feeling a little bit low and depressed about the actual state of my neck and my [00:15:30] head. 

[00:15:30] Now, 

[00:15:30] if you have a pay as you go session and go, well, Darren just, you know, come back whenever, see you.

[00:15:34] Darren Rieck: That's right. 

[00:15:35] This doesn't work. 

[00:15:36] Katie Bell: They just go they go back in the loop because they'll think, oh. Maybe I'll try swimming or maybe I'll try something else. Maybe I'll wanna see somebody else. I'll do that. Latest thing I've seen on Google or YouTube. 

[00:15:47] And we just go around this loop and that's when we see the biggest cancellation rate.

[00:15:51] We see the biggest drop out rate. 

[00:15:53] Darren Rieck: I was just about talk a hundred percent. No shame. I was just about to say. You know, that was one of the things in the software. I [00:16:00] wanted to automate all of that. I wanna automate the follow ups. I wanna automate on client behavior, so what's going on, what outcome measures are we using?

[00:16:08] So we've got outcomes like we can use a neck disability index, an NDI that we get sent out via a link to the patient after four sessions, it's got a link on.

[00:16:23] As we go along, I create a graph in the clinical notes, so things like I can track their retention, the last [00:16:30] attendance, so DNAs and unable to ts I can send automatic follow ups to this patient just through. It's very easy to set up. You set it up once and then it goes for every patient after four weeks, I to send an automatic follow up with an.

[00:16:47] And I do track their NDI their neck disability index, things like that. Right, right. Or patient specific, functional scale, things like that. 

[00:16:54] Katie Bell: And that's so important that you that we have things in place that [00:17:00]scoop up. 

[00:17:01] These, and

[00:17:02] Darren Rieck: then we can care about the patient more. Right. We do all the other stuff.

[00:17:05] That's right. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where the future of automation ai, I mean that's all just common sense to, to, to us as therapists. We know that, and that all needs to be built in the system so the therapists can do a better job and retain their clients, show their PVA is higher, increase their profitability, all of that sort of stuff.

[00:17:25] Katie Bell: Yeah. And it's amazing how many I was recording some content yesterday for our [00:17:30] Evolve program, which is for clinic owners who are relatively small. They self-employed. They, it might work on there, but they have a database of clients, big or small, doesn't matter. And one of the things I was getting them to do yesterday was to look at their lapsed client list.

[00:17:44] And was literally just look in the last month, the last three months and the last six months. 

[00:17:49] Darren Rieck: Correct. That's right. Last attendance report. 

[00:17:52] Katie Bell: Yeah. You know, and I said, use software. If your software can't do it, change software 'cause it's crap. You need to have 

[00:17:58] Darren Rieck: the last attendance report in Nookal. I used to [00:18:00] run it every fri last Friday of every month.

[00:18:02] The girl, my office manager used to run it, stick it in the pigeon hole of all the guys the following Monday, their job was to just follow up via the call to see how they're going. And not to sell. Hey Bob, how you going? How's that neck injury? Okay, I'm here if you need me. Oh, actually. And you'd find that you get 10 to 20% of people come back in just by 

[00:18:24] calling.

[00:18:25] Katie Bell: And do you know what? That is so funny because on my PowerPoint presentation, I was speaking over it. I said, [00:18:30] I'm gonna give you a re reactivation kit with five different campaigns. Right. But you can forget all of that and you can just pick up your phone. Say, hi, Bob, it's Katie, your physio.

[00:18:40] I've not seen you in a while. I wanna just check how you are and people will, you know, 10 to 20% patient you know, patient value average of four, 500 quid. You can make thousands very quickly from just being 

[00:18:53] Darren Rieck: oh very easily. Yeah, 

[00:18:55] Katie Bell: but also then recognizing, okay, so I have an issue with lapse [00:19:00] clients, so let's deal with that. Let's not just keep having loads of lapse clients. Let's have a follow-up system in place, but also let's look at what we are doing within our initial assessment. 

[00:19:10] Darren Rieck: That's 

[00:19:11] exactly right. 

[00:19:11] Katie Bell: Might be meaning the lapsing, because you are in my opinion, we overdeliver, we give too much information out.

[00:19:18] They leave confused, they then don't win. At all. Patients need to move from informed pessimism out of the valley of despair into informed optimism. [00:19:30] They have to have quick wins, and that means that we need to see them sooner rather than later. We need to make sure we've got pre-booked appointments in.

[00:19:39] Darren Rieck: Yes. I'm just, I'm hearing you. 

[00:19:41] It's good. 

[00:19:42] Katie Bell: Rather than just this kind of whole, oh, well, we'll just see you in a few weeks and I'm like. No, if somebody's got acute pain, you might wanna be seen two or three times that week. 

[00:19:50] Darren Rieck: That's right, Kate. 

[00:19:51] Katie Bell: They can sleep so they can 

[00:19:52] Darren Rieck: Yeah. 

[00:19:53] Or they can have high quality of care.

[00:19:55] Yeah. Or quality of life. Sorry. So I was gonna say to that, so that's one [00:20:00] part of Nookal I developed, right? So what I did is I built a plan inside. So, for example, you know, if you. I'd go through my subjective objective treatment and then my plan. I'd write my notes. Now I'd use dictation voice to text to do it.

[00:20:17] And what Nookal does is pull those major points down and write three main goals. In their treatment plan that I'll go through with the patient and go, all right, Katie, I've, number one objective today is increase increase your [00:20:30] range of motion. Say it's a a RH neck, increase your range of motion, decrease your pain, and look at doing some, so reducing the soft tissue spasm.

[00:20:38] And then I go, I wanna see you once a week twice a week this week, twice a week next week, once a week for the next two weeks after that. And then I'd have a little live chat engine where I. Hey, Kate. Hey, I talked to the front receptionist. Can you book Katie in twice this week? Twice next week. And then we'll reassess her after that.

[00:20:57] You go out to the front desk, you'd already and the [00:21:00] girls at the front would go, oh, hi Katie. Darren wants to see you twice this week, twice next week. Then I would email you the plan. You would see the plan come in.

[00:21:11] When you walk out of the room and then you'd have out the book booking sessions already in. Now, some people wanted to pay up front, most people didn't. It was their choice. I didn't push that. But then they knew what I was wanting to do. They knew what my three goals of treatment were, and then we'd follow that through, and then they felt confident.

[00:21:29] There was an [00:21:30] outcome to be achieved, and then that was all, it was as simple as that. And you could see, and I was gonna share my screen, but I can de demonstrate that, where you just follow that, the clinical notes through to the plan, through to the communication. And then those three or four things work together.

[00:21:45] And then I would go through and share my screen with the patient show.

[00:21:54] And it would, at the bottom, it would have the sessions I wanted to see them for. And then I would email it to [00:22:00] them right there and then they'd go out and book it in. Pretty simple. Yeah. 

[00:22:04] Katie Bell: Simple. So 

[00:22:05] effective. And I always say to our Thrive members confused clients, do nothing.

[00:22:12] So if you are trying to give them a bazillion things in your initial assessment and you feel overwhelmed, you've run over time, you're chatting to the minute that they're trying to put the clothes on and get out the door. 'cause you've got somebody else coming straight after. That is not good service.

[00:22:27] That is not all. You should be running your session. [00:22:30] And you haven't communicated the outcomes you want to achieve. Exactly. And my bug Bear is when I, and my therapist who work for me, bless them, God, can you imagine having to work for me, going hell. But they know my bug Bear is when I hear them coming down the stairs with the patient telling them their plan.

[00:22:47] And I'm like, I no. Okay. That needs to have been discussed in the room. The down the stairs thing is, , just that reassurance. I'm so looking forward to seeing you next week. Pip's now gonna look after you on reception. Not this [00:23:00] like, so, scramble, we didn't really talk about this, but let's put you in for a few se feel so rushed and it feels correct out, integrity, and 

[00:23:07] Darren Rieck: it should be part of that initial consult.

[00:23:10] Katie Bell: Absolutely. 

[00:23:10] Darren Rieck: It all starts there. 

[00:23:12] Katie Bell: So therefore , I say if you feel confused, if you feel overwhelmed, they will also feel that. And so, yes, it's our responsibility to create a rehab plan and a whole structure. But sometimes in the first session, I always say to them, what would be a great outcome for you today?

[00:23:29] And they're [00:23:30] like, Katie, if you could just help me with this thing or just give me the reassurance that I'm not dying of a brain tumor. Okay, that's what we're gonna make sure. 

[00:23:39] Darren Rieck: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. And they on confidence. Yeah, a hundred percent. 

[00:23:43] Katie Bell: They don't want 65 billion exercises and loads of tips and advice.

[00:23:47] They want that over time and we'll give them that. But when you know you've got five sessions with them, you can breathe. 

[00:23:53] Darren Rieck: So the plan comes in. That's right. 

[00:23:55] Katie Bell: You can be like, I'm gonna give you everything you need, but I'm not gonna give it you all today because you're gonna [00:24:00] not take anything away that I've said.

[00:24:02] So it's, that's so 

[00:24:04] Darren Rieck: that is, that's a good point. Sometimes the patients, 'cause they're in a lot of pain, they don't remember everything you said. That's why I used to email 'em and put it in writing. 'cause then they could take that away tangibly and know that got a plan. Yeah that's good. 

[00:24:18] Katie Bell: Well, remember approximately 25% of everything that you've said in an initial assessment.

[00:24:22] Darren Rieck: That's true. Very true. Very true. 

[00:24:22] Katie Bell: So you could use 75% and still have the same outcome. 

[00:24:27] It's true. You know,

[00:24:28] Darren Rieck: it's good. 

[00:24:29] It's very, yeah. [00:24:30] Very good. 

[00:24:30] Katie Bell: So it, but if your software can then support that conversation, support that plan, give them. And also I'm gonna just slightly diversify here in the, I think, and this is really important to raise we're seeing in the clinic more and more people disclosing to us that they have ADHD or they have dyslexia or Discalculor, or they need some adjustments in the way we do things.

[00:24:54] And we do a lot in our. To try and help with that in terms of reducing sensory [00:25:00]stuff. We turn music off, we turn the lights down, we ring them when we're ready for them so they can just come in from their car and not have to sit in a busy reception. 

[00:25:07] Darren Rieck: Yeah. Right. 

[00:25:08] Katie Bell: And anything just close. We try and make reasonable adjustments, but I think one of the things we ought to be aware of, and I think this is where your software is gonna be so effective, is that if a client has ADHD

[00:25:21] and I'm not the expert here, so if I get anything wrong here, I apologize. They've got ADHD or processing, like they struggle to put it all [00:25:30] together. You just bombarding them with a load of information, they will leave worse than they came to you. 

[00:25:35] Darren Rieck: Correct. 

[00:25:36] Katie Bell: And so if you can say, Darren, I don't want you to worry or remember any of this because you're gonna get an email the minute you walk out of here with the three things that we are focused on.

[00:25:47] That is like, that is a really amazing adjustment that we have made. Yeah. Or added benefit. And I think that is something that you can really market as a clinic, that your software support that. 

[00:25:59] Darren Rieck: Yeah. [00:26:00] And they, and that allows the patient to go back at home and just read through what was achieved and that will give them confidence in the therapist.

[00:26:09] I think that's one of the biggest things on.

[00:26:14] Have the patient needs to have confidence in you as the therapist. Yeah. And that comes back to the, not only the billing, but the retention comes back to the confidence that outcomes are gonna be achieved. Like you said, they might just wanna have one outcome. Okay. If we can deliver that outcome, they've got [00:26:30] confidence in you and that helps retention.

[00:26:32] Katie Bell: Exactly. 

[00:26:33] Darren Rieck: Delivering that in an email also does help as well. 

[00:26:36] Katie Bell: Yeah, of course. And then you've, you're not creating more work for yourself. Software is doing that for you. 

[00:26:41] Darren Rieck: Correct. A hundred percent. That's right. 

[00:26:43] Katie Bell: Which is great. 

[00:26:44] So Darren, you've got, you wrote an article around unlocking retention and profitability in your clinic. I don't know if I've just forced you into this, but how can all of our listeners download this report from you? 

[00:26:56] Darren Rieck: Yes, I've got a link that I'll email you. Katie, you can put that up on the show notes. [00:27:00] And yeah, I wrote a, an article on cracking the code on patient retention.

[00:27:04] So how your billing approach impacts compliance and long-term success. It's really, it's a 4, 5 pages, just really easy. Some ideas about how you can look at different approaches for your clinic. 

[00:27:15] Katie Bell: So, amazing. So I'll make sure it goes in the show notes. And Darren I've loved this conversation. We are super passionate about the same things. And we need to clearly get out more and drink more wine because we're both so passionate. 

[00:27:28] Yes, you do. [00:27:30] It's a problem. Anyway, but yeah, I'm happy to always do that.

[00:27:35] Yeah. But if our listeners wanna, like a lot of are changing their software right now. Better support they're needing a system with a person on the end of the phone that actually can support them. 

[00:27:50] Darren Rieck: Have that. 

[00:27:51] Katie Bell: You guys are great with that. How do they reach out to you, Darren, for more information or connect with you and your team?

[00:27:56] Darren Rieck: Yep. So all you need to do is go to Nookal [00:28:00] Nookal.com Nookal.com, sign up for a free trial. And then I've got a full team in the uk. And they will get in contact within 24 to 48 hours after you sign for a trial and offer you an online demonstration much like this, via Zoom to demonstrate the benefits of Nookal for your clinic.

[00:28:19] Katie Bell: Okay, great. So, we'll make sure that link is also in the show notes. Darren, it has been an absolute pleasure. I've loved talking about everything to do with retention and [00:28:30]profitability. Can I ask you to come back again at some point? 

[00:28:32] Darren Rieck: Yes, definitely. I've enjoyed it. 

[00:28:34] Katie Bell: You have to do it. You have to do it.

[00:28:36] Darren Rieck: Yes, I have. It's been, I've enjoyed talking to you, Katie. Thank you. 

[00:28:39] Katie Bell: You are welcome. Thanks Darren.

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