Treat Your Business

135 How AI is Revolutionising First Sessions in Private Practice

• Katie Bell • Season 1 • Episode 135

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Welcome to Treat Your Business

Hello and welcome to the Treat Your Business Podcast. I am Katie Bell and today we are diving into the crucial topic of initial assessments in private MSK practice. I am joined by Paul Baker from Go Clinic AI who shares how to transform your assessment process for better patient outcomes and a thriving clinic.

Episode Summary

Initial assessments are the foundation of every patient journey. When done right, they build trust, motivate patients, and secure commitment to treatment plans. The reality is that these sessions are often rushed and inconsistent. Traditional assessments can take up the whole first session, leaving little time for hands-on treatment or building rapport. This can lead to patients feeling unsure and missing out on those quick wins that boost retention and confidence.

Paul reveals how Go Clinic AI shifts history taking to before the appointment. This tool gives us more time in the clinic room, standardises excellence, and boosts diagnostic confidence. You will hear how AI-guided pre-assessment supports both experienced clinicians and new grads, helping you deliver a consistent and high-quality patient experience every time.

Key Takeaways

• The first assessment shapes the entire patient journey
• Time pressure and multitasking can affect quality and consistency
• Moving subjective history to pre-appointment creates more space for valuable care
• Standardising assessments helps deliver quick wins and build trust
• AI tools can support clinical reasoning and business growth
• Patients expect treatment in their first session so make every minute count
• Train your team to focus on relief as well as pain for better results and retention
• Assessment and treatment should flow naturally for the best outcomes
• Teach patients how to improve between sessions for lasting change

Resources and Links

• Learn more about Go Clinic AI and claim your 30-day free trial at www.goclinic.ai
• Use the code GOCLINICTHRIVE50 for 50 percent off for six months after your trial
• Book a demo or reach out for support on the Go Clinic AI website

Episode Sponsor
• Sponsored by VBS Medical Ltd, exclusive distributor in the UK and Ireland of K-Laser Therapy & Indiba Radiofrequency Therapy.
To learn more about K-Laser Therapy, visit: https://klaseruk.co.uk/why-klaser/
To learn about Indiba Radiofrequency Therapy, visit: https://vbsmedical.com/product/indiba-radiofrequency/
Book your free trial at https://vbsmedical.com/contact/

Treat Your Business podcast is proudly sponsored by MBST, the groundbreaking technology revolutionising recovery and rehabilitation. Offering a non-invasive, drug-free solution for musculoskeletal conditions and nerve injuries, MBST works at a cellular level to stimulate regeneration. Expand your services and deliver long-term patient improvements without increasing your workload.

Learn more at mbstmedical.co.uk. 

[00:00:00] Katie Bell: Initial assessments in private MSK practice are pivotal, in women's health as well. In peds, you name it, they are so important because they ultimately determine the patient journey when they're done right. They build trust, they motivate our patients. They secure commitment to the treatment plan, but mastering assessments really does present significant challenges, and I know this as a.

[00:00:26] Katie Bell: Clinic owner, as a clinic lead, as a physio, as a [00:00:30] coach, working with lots and lots of people like you, our listeners, on their team and their team's performance. So we find that multitasking. Creates this massive time pressure. There's so much to do with such limited time that these are very rushed appointments.

[00:00:45] Katie Bell: Information gaps, compromises quality care. They have low value first sessions traditional assessments often consume entire first sessions, all the talking and no actual action. So they have. Often [00:01:00] disappointing patient experiences and we have this inconsistent service quality. Then an unstandardised approach that creates a variable patient experience and care quality gaps across different experience levels.

[00:01:13] Katie Bell: Today's episode is going to show you how you can plug this gap, and we are going to be talking to Paul from Go Clinic ai. Go clinic, AI modernises, MSK practice with seamlessly integrated ai. It's so [00:01:30] exciting. It's AI guided pre-assessment, so it shifts history taking to the pre-appointment, creating this 15 minutes plus for higher value care.

[00:01:39] Katie Bell: It's standardises practice excellence. It gives you much more diagnostic confidence. It enhances that first session value and it creates automated documentation. So without further ado, let me get Paul onto the episode into the podcast and for him to explain to you a [00:02:00]little bit more about how this works, how it can completely transform how you work in your clinic, and really optimise patient results.

[00:02:08] Katie Bell: Welcome to the Treat Your Business Podcast with Katie Bell. I'm Katie, and this is the place where clinic owners like you learn the strategies, tools, and mindset shifts needed to transform your clinic into a thriving business. One that gives you more time, more money, and more freedom. Born from a passion to challenge the [00:02:30] idea that average is normal.

[00:02:31] Katie Bell: We empower clinic owners to create extraordinary businesses, incomes, and lives through our world class coaching programs. We help you step out of overwhelm and into confidence, turning your clinic into a business that fuels your lifestyle. Not draining it. So are you ready? Let's dive in

[00:02:49] Katie Bell: Today's episode is sponsored by VBS Medical Limited. It's the exclusive distributor of K laser therapy and Indiba radio frequency therapy in the [00:03:00] UK and Ireland. K Laser and Indiba are non-invasive therapies that enhance and accelerate the healing process complementing standard of care. Broadening therapeutic opportunities, improving clinical outcomes, generating new profit, and distinguishing your clinic from the competition.

[00:03:17] Katie Bell: K Laser and Indiba have a medical device regulation approval, meaning they have scientific publications to validate their clinical applications in practice. To learn more, visit [00:03:30] www.vbsmedical.com and book your free trial today.

[00:03:33] Katie Bell: hi Paul, welcome to the Treat Your Business podcast. 

[00:03:37] Paul Baker: Hi. Morning. 

[00:03:38] Katie Bell: Thank you for being here. I am, I'm always really excited to interview guests like you, but I'm particularly excited for this because I think this brings in so many elements that we talk about on this podcast from, kind of client results and facilitating great outcomes from building retention rates, improving conversion rates, supporting our clinicians in doing [00:04:00] a better job in getting out of there for want of a better word, NHS head and into our private head.

[00:04:05] Katie Bell: And this product that you are here to talk about, Paul brings all of this together. So tell the listeners who you are, what has led you to develop this that we are going to talk about today. 

[00:04:17] Paul Baker: Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thanks for having me here. And your listeners are maybe interested in ai. So yeah. I'm Paul Baker.

[00:04:24] Paul Baker: Physio being qualified nearly 30 years, 97. And the reason I decided on [00:04:30] physio is it just, suited me down to the ground and. Father had his own business, so been around family businesses since day one. And yeah, so it was a great way to obviously qualify as a physio and get involved with helping people.

[00:04:45] Paul Baker: So made a beeline straight from the NHS, a year and junior rotations was working privately in the evenings and Yeah, full-time private, within two years. And obviously. Yeah, I've been learning ever [00:05:00] since. Working in other clinics, picking up the good bits, and then obviously putting that into our own and building from there.

[00:05:06] Paul Baker: Fast forward to now, we've been our own clinic for 20 years through various guises. I. Currently have a standalone freehold, 10, 12 employed clinicians, all self-funded patients, don't deal with any insurance, been self-funded for, five, seven years. So I. Obviously we've positioned top [00:05:30] end for a reason to be able to add top quality, service and value.

[00:05:34] Paul Baker: And that starts in the treatment room or even before, website first impressions. So this product, builds on all that experience. From, yeah, 30 years of trying to train clinicians. What's important in the treatment room? Balancing that clinical with commercial. 'cause ultimately, it's a, this is a private practice product.

[00:05:55] Paul Baker: It's all about, freeing up time in that first session to [00:06:00] just. Provide value basically. And the more value provide, the more expectation the patient you satisfy tick, tick. It's a no brainer when you're making your recommendations to the treatment plan. So yeah, this is an AI product that you know, starts before they even attend the.

[00:06:20] Paul Baker: Clinic, so already you're differentiating, as an innovative patient-focused business. And yeah, it's just stacking value from day [00:06:30] one, giving them that opportunity to take their time and tell their story which you will then build on as you see them in the treatment room. So yeah that's where we are.

[00:06:38] Katie Bell: It's so exciting and you just talk about it. So, nonchalantly I've just designed this thing now in my spare time and it's, it is just phenomenal what we're about to hear. Paul wanted, if we think about the challenges that our clinic owners have the clinic owners themselves have it, but then we've also got clinic owners who listen to this, who have team, and

[00:06:58] Katie Bell: we won't get on [00:07:00] soapbox about the newly qualified that are coming through and the lack of jobs that we're seeing in the NHS and how much they're now looking at to private practice for us to be able to take them on that next step of their learning journey. But the things that I hear a lot are people, so from the business perspective, people struggle with the conversion of new patient follow on treatment.

[00:07:22] Katie Bell: And as a clinic owner myself with team, one of the biggest challenges we often hear is that they're trying to overdeliver in a session. So [00:07:30] they want to assess everything they possibly can. The assessments take too long, the chatting takes too long. They prioritise I think often the wrong things in an assessment.

[00:07:43] Katie Bell: And I'm always talking about quick wins with patients. And sometimes when I say that, I feel like maybe some people might think that I'm just trying to cut short assessments. And I don't mean that. No I say that for me, and this is, I, I'm qualified too many years to remember [00:08:00]now, but I always think an assessment is not a one-time thing.

[00:08:03] Katie Bell: It's a continuum that happens. Throughout every session, and we don't have to assess everything in that first session. We want to build those quick wins. So we then have team that are running over time grabbing the patient's notes as they come out the door and go. Maybe we could see you again in.

[00:08:21] Katie Bell: A few weeks and it's all rushed. There's no conversation in the clinical room because we haven't got time 'cause we've assessed too much and we've not had enough time [00:08:30]for treatment. I think that most patients expect treatment on their first session when you come in into a private practice.

[00:08:37] Paul Baker: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:08:37] Katie Bell: I don't think physios deliver enough of it because we're too obsessed with assessing everything. Yeah. And I trying to aggravate everything rather than look at what easy stuff and how we can get people to that quick thing quicker. 

[00:08:52] Paul Baker: Exactly. 

[00:08:52] Katie Bell: All the things that I see, these are all the things that I hear.

[00:08:56] Katie Bell: And then what we have is clinic owners saying, oh, our conversion rate. [00:09:00] Isn't where it should be because we are not adequate, we are not giving the patients enough time in a session to explain what we think is going on, how we think we can help them, and what the journey looks like moving forwards.

[00:09:11] Katie Bell: So they've got that challenge. The retention rate then tends to be poor because we're not getting the quick wins soon enough, and the clients haven't got the confidence in us. So I see it from this business point of view. And we also see it from the outcome of the client. So how does. This product, this AI [00:09:30] product solves some of these challenges for the clinic owner, for managing team, and possibly not performing in the way that they want.

[00:09:38] Katie Bell: And how does it then optimise what the clients are getting from us and ultimately influence our profit levels at the end of the 

[00:09:46] Paul Baker: day? Yeah, exactly. When you look at any patient, you can just do simple task replacement. So voice to text notes. Yeah. Take the recording. Yeah. That's level one.

[00:09:57] Paul Baker: So this is like deep [00:10:00] looking at all the problems from all the stakeholders, patients, as you said, therapists, clinical leads. Business owners and then looking at the system, the assessment model, and redesigning it with AI built into it. Yeah, the problems would be obviously the initial assessment.

[00:10:20] Paul Baker: My personal opinion, humble opinion, is now with ai, it's outdated. I've been using this in. 14, 15 months team being [00:10:30] using it a year. So obviously it's a bit of an getting used to upskilling. Yeah. It just reduces that. I call it the sort of multitasking, cognitive overload, juggling act, just that time pressure.

[00:10:46] Paul Baker: Yeah. Taking a stranger from the reception through introduction, clinical. Yeah. Connection. Rapport. Explaining the diagnosis, treatment. [00:11:00] Yeah. In clinic, we've had a system, we call it the patient centered charter, which is like eight step nail session one if you get five, six patients wowed anyway.

[00:11:11] Paul Baker: But yeah, this is building on all that to basically streamline that and offload the sort of lower value tasks. And I don't mean the subjective is low value. Yeah, I just, a lot of the, we could, with our skills and knowledge, we could use [00:11:30] that time more wisely. That critical first session time to really amplify the value for the patient.

[00:11:36] Paul Baker: Yeah. 'Cause what happens then is so clinician, obviously, as you say, lengthy, subjective, irrelevant questions, not really sure what they're looking at. Just general speaking, obviously. Yeah. So they do a lengthy assessment, as you said. Yeah, which confuses them even more. 'cause they don't even have the site or spread of the [00:12:00] pain adequately marked out.

[00:12:01] Paul Baker: They might have P 1, 2 3, they merge them together. They're not clarifying state at rest when they're doing objective tests. It's just a jumble on the page. So they have to test everything and then they're confident with their explanation. I'm talking generally, obviously, of course, but and then that feeds into the patient.

[00:12:20] Paul Baker: So what's wrong with me? I think it might be, possibly this could help, so as a customer in any business, you went into somewhere and ask for an opinion and [00:12:30] that message you, you would sit on the fence a bit, wouldn't you? So it's like basic behavioral science connecting with people and and delivery, but that's on where there's a gap in obviously. Quite focused. Everything's clinical. Ignore the customer. So this helps regain some of that time. A good 10, 15 minutes in the initial. So I explained a bit about the product as I go. 

[00:12:55] Katie Bell: Yeah, let's do that. 'cause this, I really feel like I want to know more now about it.

[00:12:58] Paul Baker: Yeah. So [00:13:00] basically when a patient books an appointment we're integrated, with Nookal Or Clinco receptionist doesn't have to do anything on the setup. We just, it's for diagnostic service obviously. So anything musculoskeletal assessments could be, if you've got separate appointment types for PLES or discovery calls, anything where you want the history really.

[00:13:21] Paul Baker: So you set that all up in the very straightforward, most of it's automatic, but then make an appointment. Email [00:13:30] sent directly. They get three reminders over time, between booking an appointment and then when they basically takes 'em through an AI guided subjective assessment mimics the subjective.

[00:13:42] Paul Baker: So the way it works is. Obviously, you know a lot of the sections. Yeah. It's within guardrails. It's all very strict. Yeah. Questions and we will choose the best follow up question based on the patient's sort of answer as you should be doing in clinic. Really? 

[00:13:59] Katie Bell: [00:14:00] Yeah. 

[00:14:00] Paul Baker: So analyze the answers, choose the best follow up, and then automatically writes it up into subjective notes, ping into Clinico or Nookal patient notes there for you to look at before the assessment, which is highly valuable even if you don't look at it.

[00:14:16] Paul Baker: Having that there, that obviously forms the whole structure. Then obviously patient comes in and hi John. Nice to see you. Come on through. Thanks for filling that form. Save us loads of time, loads of really valuable info there. Saved lots of [00:14:30] time for treatment. Yeah, they're just like, great because they've waited, they've been waiting.

[00:14:35] Paul Baker: Obviously the different patients have different stories, but some of them are waiting months on waiting lists and different opinions. Some are even years, some are just instant. But once they've decided regardless, they want treatment basically. And and when I say treatment, I don't mean.

[00:14:53] Paul Baker: Like always hands on. They just want value. Yeah. They just want you to use your expertise to help them solve their [00:15:00] injury problems and concerns. You know what I mean? Whatever way you decide that to be. But it gives you an extra 10, 15 minutes of time in that initial to, wow. Them basically, providing lots of benefits. So the conversion is they'd be foolish not to,

[00:15:16] Katie Bell: you mentioned a staff poll before we came live, which was 58% of patients expect treatment within their first session, and 22% or less actually get it. 

[00:15:28] Paul Baker: Yeah. Yeah. That was [00:15:30] a CSP stat, I think, 

[00:15:32] Katie Bell: was it? And I think that's amazing because I would, I was, in fact, I was shocked that it was 58 'cause I would've guessed it would've been more Yeah.

[00:15:40] Katie Bell: On the patients we see and how much they value treatment, whatever treatment is. However and then I thought when 22% actually get it, we've spent, I know what I'm, like if I'm, seeing somebody or you've got a you go to the doctor or whoever you just want get the questions done and then just give me the solution.

[00:15:57] Katie Bell: Yeah. Give me what we think we need to do to move forwards [00:16:00] and get me out of there is, that's what we want. Yeah. And that's the same in the clinic room, isn't it? We just, we want to leave feeling better than we arrived and I think sometimes we run the risk of. Patients being so overwhelmed with everything that we're asking them.

[00:16:17] Paul Baker: Yeah. 

[00:16:18] Katie Bell: And everything that we're then telling them as a result of what they're telling us. Yeah. That they don't often leave feeling better physically or. Emotionally or mentally because they just leave [00:16:30] feeling, I'm not exactly sure of my plan. I'm not feeling that confident. Yeah. I haven't really had the hands on treatment that I expected.

[00:16:37] Katie Bell: And that's when you see this drop off, I think of people that might book and then cancel or book and don't turn up. We see that drop off happen, don't we? 

[00:16:47] Paul Baker: Yeah. Yeah. So we've done a fair bit of internal research just with our client base. And I have the results and I do need to get them out there.

[00:16:54] Paul Baker: But yeah. Until you start looking at this, you don't realize people are anxious coming in Yeah. To [00:17:00] physio. They're worried, they'll forget something important, that's the stuff, feedback we get. Yeah. They, they obviously really value the opportunity to provide the history upfront, were showing them how to give information before. The key is our job is practical. So you really have to practically use, something like this to experience it. Words alone will not change behavior. So yeah you and different [00:17:30] patients will get different value from it. Obviously, we all, every patient's different clinicians will get different value, different clinical leads.

[00:17:36] Paul Baker: What we do is. Complex. So this is about just unburdening and helping set the trajectory. 'Cause it's critical. So you know, then when patients are, you're training them how to give you good information. So then they come in and they say, oh yeah, I forgot. Yes. Two days have passed since they filled it in.

[00:17:52] Paul Baker: I want to tell you this. So you're, they're giving you even more detailed info before. Yeah, exactly. So [00:18:00] yeah, when they come in, then obviously. You would still verify the info. It's only a questionnaire, but we've got some, programming analysis, mimicking best practice models and clinical reasoning to then from all the information make an analysis, a clinical analysis to just help support.

[00:18:19] Paul Baker: Second, second opinion if needed, basically.

[00:18:23] Katie Bell: And does that then guide you, Paul, in terms of you've got your subjective, you scan over it before you see the patient. Is [00:18:30] it then giving you indications of what it could what are the 1, 2, 3 things it could be? Does that then form more of what you need to go and then assess from an objective point of view?

[00:18:42] Paul Baker: Yeah. It will, using best practice clinical reasoning models. Yeah. And, an experienced clinician even from a body chart. So it's an interactive body chart there, the patient will fill in, that will link to what structure's referring to that area. Then you start analyzing with the description.

[00:18:58] Paul Baker: Sight and spread depth [00:19:00] frequency agonys, a good clinician, you could probably narrow it down to top three with just a good body chart. Yeah. Yep. So it's getting, the less experienced clinicians, oh, this is how useful a body chart is. You know what I mean? It's that scaffolding. 'cause the amount of times I've used, I do all the training.

[00:19:18] Paul Baker: Clinic communication is key. Subjective is. Fundamental pro practice. And, tell 'em 6, 7, 8 times in different training sessions, the body chart you can diagnose from that. And we play little quizzes and [00:19:30] stuff. You do a case review. Where's the body chart? Yeah, honestly. The picture tells a thousand words.

[00:19:38] Paul Baker: For the clinician and the patient, think about session four or five, they've improved. So I would update body charts through the course of treatment. And then you can say, oh yeah, it's a, they come in. How's it been today? Oh yeah, no, it's just been a bit worse since last session. Oh, yeah. You talked through it. Actually, they overdone something. So where's your pain now? Okay, let's just compare when you came [00:20:00] into where you are. Oh yeah. Wow. Yeah. No, it is really good. 

[00:20:03] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:20:03] Paul Baker: You know what I mean? 

[00:20:04] Katie Bell: And that's a big challenge, isn't it? Because patients forget week to week how bad they were when they first started with us.

[00:20:10] Katie Bell: And so it's always great to be able to go back to this is where we were, this is where we are now, this is where we're going. And always be able to reflect on that. So the AI does a lot of the analysis. 

[00:20:23] Paul Baker: Yeah. 

[00:20:24] Katie Bell: And that side of it for you, you then have more time to. Do your hands-on [00:20:30] assessment or, move.

[00:20:31] Katie Bell: Yeah. Whatever you are you're looking at. 

[00:20:33] Paul Baker: Yeah. let me talk you through what a session would look like. So I would, the patient would still tell their story, yeah, let's just fill in a few of the gaps. Start a subjective, so yeah, it says here, obviously you strain your back a few weeks ago.

[00:20:44] Paul Baker: Just tell us about that, open questions, all the same principles, and they'll still talk. You got the info there. It's not like it, you're not reacting and

[00:20:52] Katie Bell: Yep. 

[00:20:53] Paul Baker: It's that 

[00:20:53] Katie Bell: trying to write everything down. 

[00:20:55] Paul Baker: Yeah. The space with, oh, it could be this, could be that. Yeah. You got pretty [00:21:00] clear where it's going, but obviously you're probing and Yeah.

[00:21:03] Paul Baker: Often, ultimately it's a questionnaire a smart questionnaire. And the analysis is as accurate as any clinician. Could do on that questionnaire info, but you're the expert in the room. Yes. It's a starting point and you layer in your expertise as you see fit and then you get to a much, much better place, much quicker, deep understanding patient's giving you more accurate info, and then you got a much more [00:21:30] focused objective and then plenty of time to treat.

[00:21:33] Paul Baker: The value and the treatment plan and what the coming weeks are going to look like. So it's not that. Last minute at the desk went oh, 

[00:21:43] Katie Bell: I hate that. When they're like still trying to do the shirt up, trying to get them out the door. 'cause you've got your next one and you're able running and we've all been there.

[00:21:52] Katie Bell: Have we, Paul? We've all been there.

[00:21:54] Paul Baker: Ultimately it's about standardisation, quality control. Then from a business owner point of view, you. [00:22:00] Trying to standardise that initial patient experience. So it adds value 

[00:22:05] Katie Bell: and that's really great. 'cause the conversations I often have with clinic owners are, I want you to imagine that your businesses like a McDonald's and each treatment room is a different franchise.

[00:22:20] Paul Baker: Tell me about it. 

[00:22:22] Katie Bell: I don't want to go into treatment room one and I'll order a hamburger and then go into treatment room two and order a hamburger. And my hamburger is [00:22:30] completely different. It should, it. Yes, you have freedom of how you treat, how you work, how you clinical reason, all of those things. You are individual.

[00:22:39] Katie Bell: Practitioners, when you are working in your own scope of practice and you've got that autonomy 

[00:22:44] Katie Bell: We have to standardise what is going on behind the clinic room door. And as a clinic lead and as a clinic owner, we need to know when that door shuts. They're going to get a process that they go through.

[00:22:54] Katie Bell: That is. Very similar, if not the same, to what they would get in treatment room [00:23:00] two with James or treatment room three with Helen, or whoever it is that's working for you. So it really helps that as well, doesn't it? 

[00:23:09] Paul Baker: Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know yourself on, your listeners will know, doing case reviews when you go half the information.

[00:23:17] Paul Baker: Less experienced clinicians think you got a magic wand, you can just wave and oh yeah, that's what it is. But it, if it's like I can't make head no sense of that. So tell us what does that mean, so all they do from a case review, you're like trying [00:23:30] to find out what's going on.

[00:23:31] Paul Baker: They're then leaving with a list of questions. Yeah. Usually, case reviews. Obviously it could be first session, often third, fourth, when their sort of patient is oh, consents, they're going to self discharge prematurely. What's going on? I'm not sure. And then they're going into that next session with a list of questions.

[00:23:48] Paul Baker: Patients like, oh, I'm a reassessment now. And yeah, they're gone. You've lost 'em already. So this is, it's not reactive, it's proactive in advance. Standardisation for, setting [00:24:00]that trajectory for the patient's recovery, that buy-in and Yeah. Obviously a lot of it is bio psychosocial, so all of that adds to it massively.

[00:24:09] Katie Bell: Yeah it, this is great, Paul, you we like to give our listeners loads of value and I asked you for some top tips.

[00:24:16] Paul Baker: Yeah. 

[00:24:17] Katie Bell: That can help master a really valuable first session and some of the stuff we've already talked about. But number one, tip. And I'm just reading my notes here, shift your assessment mindset.

[00:24:28] Katie Bell: So seek relief, not just pain. [00:24:30] And this really resonates with me. So help me understand what you mean by that. 'cause I think we over assess and we are looking to aggravate stuff all the time, rather than find ways of what relieves symptoms and how we can get the patients those quick wins. So what do you mean by shifting your assessment mindset?

[00:24:53] Paul Baker: Yeah a lot of the times, we're taught, is that sore? Is that sore? Is that sore? Positive? Yeah. [00:25:00] Okay. That's the diagnosis. So now how do I treat it? Whereas it depends on the condition, obviously, like a torn, everything's going to be painful, nerve impingement.

[00:25:10] Paul Baker: Yeah. You do not want to be aggravating that. You want to be looking at things that's going to ease it. Does that ease it? Does that ease it? Does that ease it? Because then very simply, that becomes, those positions, those activities that then flows into your obviously treatment approach with some techniques and positioning.

[00:25:28] Paul Baker: If it's compressive, you got [00:25:30] it, basically, is there. Referral. Quite straightforward. But then it's also the positions at home, it's the activities they do, it's the hobbies they avoid and can do. So yeah, if you just go on a pain, oh yeah, that's positive. You just got a load of question marks then with how to actually treat it.

[00:25:50] Paul Baker: So yeah, patients respond to that as well, if you're there assessing them and you're easing their pain. It's like just adds to their, [00:26:00] trust and confidence in buy-in. 

[00:26:01] Katie Bell: Absolutely. You, your second tip was assessment flows into treatment. So I think certainly when I trained it was like I.

[00:26:11] Katie Bell: You do your subjective and you write everything down and then you stop, and then you do your objective and then you stop and then you go into treatment. If you have time, you probably don't, and then you go into your plan with them and it feels really like rigid and not flowy and oh, not great. And so your second tip was how your assessment and [00:26:30] treatment can flow into each other by using this AI will and it will help you do that.

[00:26:34] Katie Bell: Can you explain that a little bit more, Paul? 

[00:26:37] Paul Baker: Yeah. Yeah. Obviously it's back to that, all right you've assessed them, this is the problem, this is the treatment we're going to do, and then all of a sudden you've, hypothesized, a snag or a mob movement on, c two three is going to increase rotation to the left, and it doesn't.

[00:26:53] Paul Baker: Oh, you've set yourself up for failure. Yeah. Patient's instantly he said it would work and it didn't, it's all [00:27:00] psychology. So you just up and down the articular pillar, you're just doing mo movement as part of your assessment. I do that instead of palpation. Seeing what levels improve and then, that's your treatment.

[00:27:12] Paul Baker: And you know it's going to work. You got confidence then rather than, putting it all on paper, working it out in your head because it's practical. You can do that many ways. So mobs with movement being won, obviously the whole McConnell's taping thing, I don't know where you stand on that.

[00:27:28] Paul Baker: For some [00:27:30] it's my diagnostics. Is it infra patella tendon? Is it more patella femoral? Let's pop the infra patella brace on and see if it eases their single leg dip. You're doing that start of the objective. You're just arming yourself. Yeah, it doesn't, okay. It's probably more patellafemoral.

[00:27:48] Paul Baker: Let's measure, let's see, let's do it that way. Does that help? Let's see the dip. Oh, good. You know that's 

[00:27:55] Katie Bell: obviously, yeah. You're using your, you're using your treatment to help form your assessment [00:28:00] better, but rather than it being a rigid two part thing, it's just one is flowing into the other and 

[00:28:06] Paul Baker: yeah, 

[00:28:06] Katie Bell: you are able to use your time much more effectively and patients instantly are feeling.

[00:28:11] Katie Bell: You know those quick wins because they feel immediate relief or improve. Confidence goes up, trust level goes up.

[00:28:20] Paul Baker: Yeah, like with nerve root impingement, manual traction, be it cervical or lumbar, stayed at rest. Three outta 10. Hold it. Does that ease it? No. [00:28:30] Okay. Double leg? No. Might be the position.

[00:28:32] Paul Baker: Let's get your prone. No, let's pop a pillow under your hips. Getting you a bit more gap flexion. Does that ease? Yes. You just gotta go that deep with it, basically. Yeah. Incorrectly. Yeah. And then you think it doesn't work. Yeah. And then you have an opinion that none of this works. You know what I mean?

[00:28:50] Paul Baker: Yeah. And that a lot on social media and stuff. 

[00:28:53] Katie Bell: Yeah, absolutely. And that, forms your third tip, which was show off your expertise with your quick wins. And that's exactly what you mean [00:29:00] there, isn't it? There's ways that you can incorporate treatment into the assessment that instantly, immediately changes symptoms.

[00:29:07] Katie Bell: Reduces them. Relieves them. Yeah. Instantly builds that trust factor, which could ordinarily take weeks to build up if you are being very rigid at this approach to it. 

[00:29:20] Paul Baker: Oh yeah, totally. 'cause if you yeah, the opposite, it's, it is, it's like the length of time you leave between an assessment to treatment, if it's we, I've looked at stats. If [00:29:30] it's longer than five days, that's like the biggest predictor of self discharge. You know what I mean? A, the patient's not committed. They're sat on the fence. B, they're making excuses. C when they come back, if you've got a busy list, you ain't going to remember them from Adam.

[00:29:44] Paul Baker: You have to. D more opportunity to aggravate it in between E psychologically we are trying to change behavior with a lot of these overuse injuries. It'd be the majority we see rather than the simple trauma. So that means that [00:30:00] behavioral change, if a psychologist was trying to work with a client on behavioral change, how many sessions would he do?

[00:30:06] Katie Bell: Oh. 

[00:30:07] Paul Baker: They'd be an hour long, wouldn't they? 

[00:30:09] Katie Bell: Yeah. And they'd be all in much more quick succession to start with. Whereas we're going is.

[00:30:15] Katie Bell: What 

[00:30:16] Paul Baker: so well, yeah. You gotta train people to get better basically. 

[00:30:20] Katie Bell: Yeah. And so your fourth tip is train patients how to get better. Stop methods. So this is about, I love this what you said, patients spend less than 1% of their week in your [00:30:30]treatment room. That's crazy. 

[00:30:31] Paul Baker: I know. Yeah. 

[00:30:33] Katie Bell: That really blew me away because it's the same, when you're thinking about dieting or exercising or.

[00:30:40] Katie Bell: Trying to do the right things. The proportionate time that you give to those right things tends to be very small in your whole week. And then we wonder why it's taking us ages to lose weight or ages for us to get fitter or whatever. Yeah. 

[00:30:52] Paul Baker: Yeah. So 

[00:30:52] Katie Bell: You are saying it's crucial to teach them how to stop aggravating their symptoms.

[00:30:58] Katie Bell: Start easing them with self-treatment [00:31:00] techniques, but then being able to, and I talk to this, to my team about this a lot. We have a rapid recovery program and what really that is all about, they buy into five sessions. It's a, after their initial assessment, but session those first two sessions after the initial need to happen within a seven to 10 day period, no longer.

[00:31:23] Katie Bell: Like we want them in I want to do an initial assessment treatment and if I could have my way and two days [00:31:30] later I'd want to see them again. Yeah, 

[00:31:31] Paul Baker: totally. 

[00:31:32] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:31:32] Paul Baker: Because even if you didn't do any hands on, you got so much value to add. Yeah. And when you have lots of value to add, you can see them like quite frequently.

[00:31:41] Katie Bell: Yeah, and also I think. I've made up this step, Paul. This has not come from anywhere but my head in. You have an initial assessment. Clients remember about 25% of everything that you've said, and 75% of it is gone. So I always say you could do 75% less and still get the same outcome. 

[00:31:58] Paul Baker: Yeah. 

[00:31:59] Katie Bell: [00:32:00] And 

[00:32:01] Paul Baker: it's 10% they forget within a day.

[00:32:06] Paul Baker: Exactly. They retain 10% within maybe. I need to look at that. Four days, five days. So yeah, research 

[00:32:13] Katie Bell: on this. And then if we leave them two weeks, by the time they come back to us, they're now making up exercises that we never told them to do or the, they've got their own variety of exercises that you think, did I tell us what? I'm pretty sure I didn't. 

[00:32:28] Paul Baker: That's where we're really good subjective. [00:32:30] So this just enhances your subjective, this doesn't replace this. Yeah. Actually gives you more time to focus on the deeper skills rather than ask the basic, joke about it, if you, has anyone in your family ever had osteoarthritis or any degenerative disease?

[00:32:43] Paul Baker: You know what I mean? I stopped asking about like 20. Years ago. I think some, do you know what I mean? Yeah. See, it's relevant. And that's where this is for private practice. Our patients, shape our practice. Yeah. Obviously this is relevant for that [00:33:00] population. And yeah, we're all, yeah. Motivated to fill in the form basically, and they get the value, then they, and that's the key bit. You're adding that value. So when you've got way more detail in the subjective and you've built on it, then stop aggravating it because it's all clinical, then it's the patterns. Start doing things to ease it, and then that just amplifies the effectiveness of your treatment.

[00:33:23] Paul Baker: If they're just aggravating it in between sessions. No wonder it doesn't work. And again, you have to go deep on that. [00:33:30] It's oh yeah, no, I've got an orthopedic. Okay, bring it in next time. Lemme have a look at it. We all know there's lots of different types and lots of different neck sizes and.

[00:33:40] Paul Baker: Or doses, curves, and it may not be suitable. So 

[00:33:43] Katie Bell: I think a lot of what I hear, Paul, this is just reminding me, is you'll say to them, so have you been doing anything different recently? Have you done anything you know that would, have you changed footwear? Have you changed your desk setup? Have you bought a new car?

[00:33:56] Katie Bell: Have you changed your bed? Have you changed? No. I can't think of, have you painted the [00:34:00] ceiling for the first time in six years? Have you? Yeah.

[00:34:03] Katie Bell: And then you dig a bit deeper and eventually at some point they tell you something juicy, don't they? Yeah. Where they go. Oh, I wonder if it was when I shoveled the snow off my drive for 45 minutes the other night. Yeah. Okay. So now we've got some, possible mechanism of injury, but we've also got a bit of a backstory of what you've been doing that might have been built up.

[00:34:26] Katie Bell: The shoveling the snow wasn't the thing that has done it. It's [00:34:30] just the cherry on the cake that's, the straw that broke the camel's back. Yeah. 

[00:34:33] Paul Baker: Yeah. 

[00:34:35] Katie Bell: Longer time to fill in a subject when you've got like that moment of I've gotta fill this form in from a physio, I've got a bit of thinking time.

[00:34:41] Katie Bell: To be able to say like, how was anything different this week? Or what, in the moment when you are in the room with the patient, they often can't think, 'cause they've just raced here from work or they've got something else going on. So it really allows them to think through 

[00:34:56] Paul Baker: Yeah. 

[00:34:56] Katie Bell: Their lifestyle and those things.

[00:34:59] Paul Baker: [00:35:00] And the population of patients, certainly we're seeing, they're a lot more complex, I would say, since COVID, they're not, we're often the first clinician they've seen face-to-face in a long time and stuff that would normally get picked up. They come in with multi-site pain or more complex sort of chronic conditions or red flaggy.

[00:35:15] Paul Baker: We're seeing a lot of that now. Yeah. So for different patients you'll get different value, and for different clinicians, a junior, it's all about quality control, Standardisation, teaching them the systems, the framework for [00:35:30] great subjective to then give them the time for that more tr enhanced clinical reason and patient value so they can succeed in private practice.

[00:35:38] Paul Baker: 'cause yeah, with this system we just employed a new grad. Two, three weeks ago without it, I'd be nervous. A it means, be a baseline standard and b, we'll have the info that then we can do decent case reviews with the clinician to help them. Yeah. Straight from session one and, it can set, 'cause the worst thing [00:36:00] when you get, new members of staff who maybe aren't used to the private sector, adding the value, different philosophies.

[00:36:07] Paul Baker: They just hemorrhage patients basically, and the whole clinic goes quiet. I'm sure you've experienced that before. Yeah, 

[00:36:14] Katie Bell: absolutely. But going back to the point we made right at the beginning, we've got a job crisis. Again, it's this whole, when I qualified, there was no jobs in the NHS. There was this, there was two thou, when was I 2008?

[00:36:26] Katie Bell: There was this like. Everybody had been moved from Band five to [00:36:30]band six, and band sevens have gone to sixes. So there was no rooms for five to go up. And there was just this hundreds of unis churning out a hundred and 120 physios a year with zero zero jobs.

[00:36:42] Katie Bell: I, I had to go and get a job in the university for a year. And then we've seen this cycle come through again. And I know, I think near you, Paul was talking to Fiona yesterday. She was saying how many institutions you've got. And there's 2 1 5 posts available. 

[00:36:56] Paul Baker: Yeah, no, it's frightening. I qualified. [00:37:00] Yeah, queen, I worked.

[00:37:02] Paul Baker: So yeah. So you know, there's a lot out there that just will be lost from the profession if it goes on too long. So new grad week employed was, great, attitude, obviously, good communication skills and yeah, she'll be a good physio. She'd been qualified actually last year, so she had no job for six months, but still with this system we had the confidence, the scaffolding to take her on and give her that opportunity.

[00:37:29] Paul Baker: And then it [00:37:30] means different things to someone like myself. A lot of experience where you've got more time to add that value. Yeah. People think this is just very less qualified. It's even more valuable for more experienced. Simple example, yesterday a new patient lady couldn't speak English, came in with her husband, so already, for some people that would be quite challenging. Not a word of English. Literally. Had all the info up front, chatting through the husband plantar fasciitis. I. Assessed her GA scan, explained she needed orthotics, done a shockwave [00:38:00]treatment, and she's booked in for orthotics on Tuesday. So that's from a commercial financial perspective, that's taking up really challenging for session to actually providing treatment and booked in.

[00:38:15] Paul Baker: That's two sessions that. So it gives you the systems to basically, maximize the value. 

[00:38:23] Katie Bell: It's incredible 

[00:38:25] Paul Baker: solutions, basically. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[00:38:28] Katie Bell: So all these because I'm [00:38:30] super excited about it, the all our listeners are going to be, we've got small clinics, we've got big clinics, we've got, clinic owners that have teams.

[00:38:37] Katie Bell: So this kind of suits everybody. You are very kindly. going to give People access to a 30 day trial of your product aren't you Paul How do they access that? What do they need to do? 

[00:38:48] Paul Baker: They just go onto the website www.goclinic.ai and obviously. Various bits of info, what we discussed today. But yeah, there's a sign up for a free trial and just put in their details [00:39:00] and yeah, it's all automated.

[00:39:01] Paul Baker: It should walk them through it quite routinely. But yeah, we also got support on hand. At any point, all the contact details are there, just email or WhatsApp. And yeah, we can do guide you through the process for those that, want to see it in action first. We can do, another, button there for book a demo with me and I'd take 'em through the system, just show 'em what it looks like and what the reports look like and the questionnaire.

[00:39:25] Paul Baker: And there's also a dashboard then that they can manage the completion rates. So it sends [00:39:30] out like three reminders. And then for those, few that are too busy and then on the morning of the appointment, like a personalised, just very slightly template. Really whacks the conversion up. 'Cause yeah, ultimately, we want high completion rates and we get on average 70, 75% completion in clinic here, which is huge, pretty high when you speak to people.

[00:39:53] Paul Baker: So yeah, that's how they access it. And yeah, it'd be good to, show them around and see what they think. 

[00:39:59] Katie Bell: I would really [00:40:00] encourage them to, and then if they decide. That they want to do this, you've got a special 50% offer, six month discount code. Am I right in saying that, Paul? Yeah. 

[00:40:10] Paul Baker: Yeah. So yeah, thanks for having me on and opportunity to speak to your audience.

[00:40:15] Paul Baker: So with that in mind, obviously we would like to offer, discount 50% for six months post trial. And yeah, all they gotta do is put in the code, go clinic thrive 50, basically. But yeah, we [00:40:30] would. Flag them up. If they do it automated, obviously put in the code or chat through that on the demo.

[00:40:36] Katie Bell: Amazing. So the next step just to be super clear, is go to Go clinic, dot ai the website. Yeah. Book the demo or go for the 30 day free trial. And then if you love it, and I'm sure they're going to, they then can use the Go Clinic Thrive 50. Code and that will get them six months off. That's 50%, six [00:41:00] months.

[00:41:00] Paul Baker: Yeah. Yeah. And the pricing is based on number of users. It's discounted the more users, tier system and it's all on the website there, and it's not as expensive as you would think. And the value, and the ads. Yeah. Worth, I wouldn't be without it and matter with the team really.

[00:41:18] Katie Bell: Yeah. Paul, thank you so much for giving up your very valuable precious time and your brain. For all listeners, I really enjoyed this episode. Please come back again. Let's talk again in a few months time. [00:41:30] Yeah I would love to continue this conversation, so thank you very much for me. 

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