Treat Your Business

144 How to Make Your Clinic Compliant: Essential Compliance Tips for Physio and Health Business Owners

• Katie Bell / Sandra HCPG / Sarah HCPG • Season 1 • Episode 144

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“If we are not investigated, why do I need to be compliant?”

Welcome back to the Treat Your Business podcast! I’m Katie, and in this episode, I’m diving into the world of compliance, why it matters, even if you’re not being audited or investigated, and how you can make it a real strength in your clinic. I’m joined by the brilliant Sarah and Sandra from HCPG, who are experts in helping clinic owners like us plug the gaps and build solid, safe businesses without any judgement. If you’ve ever felt unsure about what you need in place or worried you’re missing something crucial, this conversation is for you.

Episode Summary 📝

Today, I chat with Sarah and Sandra about all things compliance. We talk about why so many physios and clinic owners put compliance on the back burner, especially when no one is checking up on us. Sarah explains how the current system allows physios to fly under the radar and why that can be risky. Sandra shares her experience from running private practices and working in the NHS, and together they highlight why having solid compliance foundations is just like building a house, you might not see the value straight away, but you’ll absolutely sleep better at night knowing everything is safe and secure.

We also dig into the real reasons compliance slips down the to-do list, how patient expectations have shifted since COVID, and why most people who seek help are much less compliant than they thought (and that’s completely normal!). The big message? It’s never too late to get support and start making small changes.

Key Takeaways ⭐

  • Compliance isn’t just about ticking boxes or having policies on a shelf, it’s about understanding what you have and how to use it.
  • Most clinic owners have more gaps than they realise, but getting support is the best first step.
  • Patient expectations are higher than ever, and being able to evidence your compliance is essential.
  • Don’t rely on generic or AI-generated policies, make sure you actually understand your processes and can demonstrate them.
  • It’s normal to feel nervous about asking for help, but Sarah and Sandra are truly supportive and not here to judge.
  • Small, simple changes can make a huge difference to your business and your peace of mind.

Resources & Links 🔗

If you’re listening and thinking, “This is me, I need to pull my hea

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Treat Your Business EP144

[00:00:00] Katie Bell: I think what is really refreshing, always when I speak to you both, is that you never feel like there's any judgment about.

[00:00:07] What we don't know 'cause we don't know this stuff. You don't consciously incompetent, you dunno what you dunno. Absolutely Sandra. Yeah. And it's been okay with being able to come to you and say. I have no idea what I should have in my practice. I know there is holes and I think you two both offer this very non-judgmental, lovely way you know about how you run your company.

[00:00:28] That means that you can just fix the gaps. You can plug the gaps without making us feel like we are failing. Absolutely. 

[00:00:35] Sarah: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:00:36] Katie Bell: Welcome to the Treat Your Business podcast with Katie Bell. I'm Katie, and this is the place to learn the strategies, tactics, tools and mindset needed to build your clinical studio into a business that gives you the time, money, energy, and fulfillment you want and deserve. My team and I work every day with overwhelmed and exhausted clinic owners like you to shift them from a business.

[00:00:57] There is a huge time and energy drain and is not giving them the income they want to confident clinic owners that are making money, saving money, and getting time back in their lives. So if this sounds like something you want, let's dive in.

[00:01:13] Hi, Sarah. Hi Sandra. Welcome to the Treat Your Business Podcast. Thank you for both being here. 

[00:01:18] Sarah: Thank you. It's lovely to be here. Lovely to be here. 

[00:01:22] Katie Bell: I'm excited to see you both, and to talk to you and pick your brains On behalf of all of our listeners around everything to do with compliance as much as we can possibly squeeze into a 20 minute episode.

[00:01:33] First of all, Sarah and Sandra, I know who you are. You are gorgeous. Ladies, can you tell our listeners who you are, what you do, and who you work with? 

[00:01:40] Sarah: Yeah, I'll start. So I'm Sarah. I'm a physio by background. We set up the business together because we spent a lot of time working together in a big organization, auditing private physio practices, and we found out that physios didn't know what they didn't know.

[00:01:56] And so we really enjoyed helping them to get to where they needed to get to because at that time we were referring a lot of our patients to them. Okay. I work, used to work on inpatients. I used to drive the length of stay down for hips and knees, and that's what I really used to enjoy. And then laterally I've also doing this business, but I've also retrained, trained again as a psychotherapist.

[00:02:19] So I've got. Two businesses. Yeah. 

[00:02:24] Katie Bell: Yeah. Okay. That's so exciting. Over to you. 

[00:02:27] Sandra: Yeah. Hi so much. As Sarah said, my background is MSK outpatients, I've run a private practice. I've been involved in elite sport before Sarah and I worked together, and we just got inspected so many times when we worked together through various bodies.

[00:02:43] We just found that people just didn't understand this stuff. Hence why we moved to where we are. And I also have a joint role. I obviously do HCPG with Sarah, but I actually do portfolio work. So I've done trustee and board work in the NHS and currently I'm working with charities in the health and social care sector, which is equally interesting.

[00:03:03] And again, loads more compliance. 

[00:03:06] Katie Bell: Absolutely. So you've got, not only do you, have you lived and breathed this stuff you really understand it from a clinic owners point of view, don't you? And you, I think what is really refreshing, always when I speak to you both, is that you never feel like there's any judgment about.

[00:03:22] What we don't know 'cause we don't know this stuff. You don't consciously incompetent, you dunno what you dunno. Absolutely Sandra. Yeah. And it's been okay with being able to come to you and say. I have no idea what I should have in my practice. I know there is holes and I think you two both offer this very non-judgmental, lovely way you know about how you run your company.

[00:03:43] That means that you can just fix the gaps. You can plug the gaps without making us feel like we are failing. Absolutely. 

[00:03:50] Sarah: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:51] Sandra: Yeah, often Katie, you've got the stuff as well, haven't you? There are. People don't know what they've got because you don't know what you don't know.

[00:03:56] You don't know what you've got and how to use it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. 

[00:04:01] Katie Bell: So when it comes to compliance I'm gonna ask a big question to start with. Why, if we are not being audited or investigated, why do we need to look at this stuff? 

[00:04:13] Sarah: Okay, I'll start on this one. So we aren't, we don't fall under the CQC because, and in order for that to happen, there'd have to be a change in the law because everything in the c QC falls outta the Health and Social Care Act.

[00:04:26] So they exclude physiotherapists, goodness knows why, but they do. But so we are not inspected, and you can go from training through to starting a private practice. You can work all of your life in a private practice. And not do any CPD. And unless you're pulled by the HCPC and only 2.5% of the profession are pulled, you can have not done anything at all and still be practicing.

[00:04:53] And the public think that if they go, if you speak to any member of the public, if you go to physio and tell them that actually we are regulated by the HCPC, but nobody checks. They are quite shocked because they would assume like going to a doctor or a dentist or anything like that, that you're going into a safe environment where somebody is checking you.

[00:05:15] It's not the case with physio. We absolutely fly under the radar, so of course you cannot do it, but every time that you sign. To re-register you, the ethics and the the compliance around those standards is that you sign to say that you adhere and follow them. So you can do that, and you can just tick the box and say that you do, and nobody will actually do anything about it unless there is a complaint or you're taken to the HCPC fitness practice.

[00:05:45] There is a lot of apathy out there about I don't think I need to bother to do this, but we come from the aspect of why. Not do this, why wouldn't you have to have the best practice you possibly can? Yeah. Clinically and from a compliance perspective, 

[00:06:02] Sandra: And so the thing that we say, Katie as some of your members might know and some might not, we do a newsletter, we call it La Cochina

[00:06:09] The kitchen because, and I've come from a, running a high street clinic and various other things. And yeah, as clinicians and I still do a bit clinical, we love treating patients. We love being front of house, five staff, food on the plate, proms, PREMs, whatever it is. Patient satisfaction, we do that bit.

[00:06:26] We don't really like doing the pot washing in the kitchen. Yeah, that's not where we are. And we, what we say is the stuff that we work with you on is help you get your pots clean. You don't want to put food on a plate that actually isn't safe and un underneath all of this is says safe is that key word.

[00:06:42] Safe and ethical because this is about are you safe. Are your team safe? Is everybody safe? And if something. You need to evidence it. How would you, and I think we were gonna use today a quote, if you don't mind from one of our partners who basically he was saying to us that I think the sooner people realize that they aren't paying us to pick out gaps and point fingers, but to work with them to help them grow their business, then it should sit differently.

[00:07:07] It is everyone's responsibility as an HCPC member to ensure that their practice is safe and that everything is ethical. That's sums it up everything we talk about, whether it be, we talk about, people talk about policies and processes and people say, oh, you don't need this, you don't need that.

[00:07:24] And the training. Everything we talk about comes from four things. If you're a physio, HCPC, conduct, performance and ethics, HCPC proficiency, CSP, quality assurance standards, or the ccp or the CSP code of professional values and behaviors. So these things are all in there. Yeah. And what we say to you.

[00:07:45] You've probably got stuff around them, but if you're not sure, come and have a chat. Come and talk about it. Find out what you've got and how you could use it. And if you haven't got something, we can talk to you a little bit about it and make some suggestions. But don't just get something and put it on the shelf but doesn't look after you.

[00:08:02] This is about living, breathing, thinking about it. And making it business as usual and it's legal, some of it as well, so there's a legal side. Sarah, do you wanna talk legal? 

[00:08:12] Sarah: Yeah. The, so there is quite a lot of noise out there about you don't need policies and processes, you don't need this training, these lists that you are, that you don't need any of that.

[00:08:22] That is a real message that's out there. But there is a requirement for you to follow the legal aspects of our profession and the HCPC states that you have to follow the legal requirements. You have to follow the Information Governance Act of 2018. You have to follow the equality and diversity.

[00:08:41] You have to follow the mental capacity. Act two, five, these all things. As a competent, good physio. So it's, no, it's, they say you don't need policies and processes. You can do it in any way that you like, but you have to be able to evidence that you understand it and that you do it.

[00:09:00] And actually, rather than it being a burden, and all of our partners who we audit with, say at the end, they say, I really get this now. This, I really understand this and this helps me in my business because I can, I just have got processes for things. Nothing really phases me. If we were to get a complaint, I know what to do about it.

[00:09:21] If we had an adverse instance, I know what to do about it. They just feel so much more secure and safe. 

[00:09:27] Katie Bell: Yeah. And this is reminds me a lot of, when we did a house extension in COVID and. For weeks, I was spending money on things that I couldn't really see, like to. I was coming home and my husband's saying, we need to pay the builders another X amount of thousands of pounds.

[00:09:48] And I'm thinking what are they doing? All they're doing is just making more mess and more holes and but then the weeks went on and we got those foundations in place, which were really stable and really rock solid. And then we built this beautiful, huge house refurb over the top of it.

[00:10:01] And it was all wonderful, but without that solid base. We wouldn't have this great house and that I can sleep in at night and not worry that it's gonna fall apart. And so I think sometimes I'm coming from a business owner's head. They go, oh, this is money that I've gotta spend on stuff that I might not ever need.

[00:10:21] But it's you wouldn't say that about a house extension, would you? You would have to invest in those sorts of things. And I think, I don't know whether you have felt the same, but since COVID. I think we've had a change in patient behavior. 

[00:10:38] Sandra: Yeah. 

[00:10:38] Katie Bell: In that people are tolerating less, they're expecting more, they are looking for a higher level of care and regulation.

[00:10:47] And they are doing their due diligence more and more. Yeah. They are absolutely. I think that's right. And I wouldn't ever worry about somebody doing due diligence on us because if you've got your foundations in place, you're like, okay, this is fine. All these people that just can start a practice and never do CPD or any of this in their life that are ruining it for the good people.

[00:11:08] Your, all the people that work with you that do care. 

[00:11:11] Sarah: And we have a lot of physios that really do care. Yeah, they really do. Yeah. They know they don't have to do it, but they want to do it. And, it, and they also want to stand out as a really good clinic, as an outstanding clinic.

[00:11:23] They want to stand out and put, raise their head above the parapet and say, look and shout about what they do. And we have a lot of those. And but also we go right down to just, have a call with us, come and chat. We have quite a few people who just phone us up saying, I've got this problem.

[00:11:38] I can't think, what do you think? Yeah, we do a lot of troubleshooting with people as well. 

[00:11:42] Sandra: Our business is, lots of it, Katie. It's really, people say, oh, that's the policies and procedures, ladies. We are not, we are about education and advice. You can have a lovely piece of paper, but if you don't understand it, you don't know how to use it and you haven't got that everything sitting around it, then what's what uses having the piece of paper.

[00:12:00] So we are about how do you get the education, how do you get the advice, what do you need to understand? Yeah. And then you can go and look at your business differently. Yeah, and as you say, it's, we talk about being a bit of a safety net. It's that scaffold that sits, as you say, that foundation that's sitting behind there on which you're building everything else.

[00:12:18] Katie Bell: And this is similar to when clinic owners get into a position where they've got team that we have to then invest in hr. So we have to then think, oh God, I more policies, I need more procedures, I need more of these things. And it might not ever be because you ever actually need to use them, but it's like, what happens if, and I don't have evidence and I don't have a robust way of saying this is our policy for this and this is why, we need to move from the business, for example.

[00:12:46] So it's that whole insurance policy mentality, isn't it? How much do you want to know that you, whatever happens in your business, because things will happen inevitably that you are protected, you can sleep at night. You've dotted the i's and crossed the T's. And so how often do you have conversations with people who are not compliant at all?

[00:13:10] Like they're, they've just got huge gaps and you think, oh my goodness, where do we start with this? 

[00:13:16] Sarah: We find that most people who come and bite the bullet and say, look, I've taken my head outta the sand, and I'll, 'cause we are very supportive. We're not fault finding at all. We're here to support and help.

[00:13:27] So when we do a first audit, very few people get above 30%. Yeah, so there's a lot of people out there who don't know what they don't know. So it's, it gives us huge pleasure and pride to help them get to that point of only nine, that you have to get over 90% compliance to be able to get an A certificate from us.

[00:13:47] So we, and we work with them until they can get that, and then they just, it's just lovely to see. Isn't it, Sandra? It's lovely to see, but I think I wanna throw it back at you, Katie, a little bit and think. What do you think the, why do you think people, why do you think physios don't do it? Yeah. 

[00:14:03] Sandra: Why is it less important 

[00:14:05] Katie Bell: Because it's not an absolute must.

[00:14:08] And then I think because I think it's the wrong thing. Like what We should be c qc registered, in my opinion, we should, we are a regulated body that is the most unregulated body ever. 

[00:14:20] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:20] Katie Bell: And I think that there's all of that there, but I think it's because. 99% of the time you'll get away with it for so long.

[00:14:31] And so it becomes something that you just push down your priority list. And if you don't start with it in your business grows and scales and you're now starting to think about marketing and sales and team and leadership and finances and projections and all of these other things, and compliance just goes, oh, here.

[00:14:51] Because there's always in a clinic owner's mindset, I think always something else that feels more pressing. Yeah. Because if I don't fix my sales process, I can't pay myself this month. If I don't deal with this team member, something is gonna happen. Whereas if we had more episodes where we were having to evidence we were compliant.

[00:15:18] This would be well up there on the to-do list.

[00:15:22] But most of the time people fumble the way through and most of the time people are okay. If I think about the amount of times we might have had a complaint in our clinic, like we've been going 10 and a half years now, probably less than five.

[00:15:36] Sandra: Should I pick you up on that one though, Katie? It's something really interesting sound I found last year, and this fits into what you were saying earlier about society changing. Yeah. Last year our partners. 10% more complaints than before. Yeah, huge. And 90% were fine. Yeah. But 10% which is, as you say, it's big.

[00:15:55] And it's just where it's a where society, as you said, they, they expect more, quite rightly. Yeah. But if you don't meet that, then they complain more. 

[00:16:03] Sarah: But also the other thing is that with A CSP, they focus on the nhs. There is a move now to think more about private practice. Yeah.

[00:16:11] But private practice is 20%. And they deal with 80% in the NHS, so they don't really bother. When you have a clinical incident or a complaint and you work in the NHS or the independent sector, they pick up the tab. They cover it, they pick up the tab, they do everything right. So it never gets to James Hallam.

[00:16:30] But the 20% right. To through the CSP. So that's why our, and there is no openness about how many complaints they get and what types they are. Yeah. And how much they actually spend on sorting it out. Yeah. There is no openness. The osteopaths cannot deal with a complaint before they contact their insurance.

[00:16:54] They have to contact them first. Wow. And then they deal with the insurance with the complaint. So the osteopaths know exactly how many complaints they have. Yeah. And the type, but we don't, we really don't. 

[00:17:06] Katie Bell: No. We such. Non transparent sector. 

[00:17:09] Sarah: Exactly, 

[00:17:10] Katie Bell: Matt. 

[00:17:12] Sandra: Yeah. And so the osteopaths do research on it and so you can learn from it and you can share the learning and you can grow with it.

[00:17:18] Yeah, 

[00:17:20] Sarah: but we don't, there is no transparency.

[00:17:23] Katie Bell: And so the, so therefore, again, it's another, oh nobody's really talking about, it doesn't seem to be that big of a problem, so I'll just keep burying my head in the sand and dealing with the other stuff. 

[00:17:34] Sarah: The thing is that if there is a clinical instance or complaint, the insurance will cover it.

[00:17:39] But there's nothing about, you need to, what your reflective practice is. Yeah. Are you going to change Nothing just covered, carry on as normal, have you? Unless you go to the fitness to practice. Yeah. And then they might put a suspension or a supervisory order on you so it's 

[00:17:55] Sandra: not 

[00:17:55] Sarah: transparent.

[00:17:56] Sandra: And it doesn't mean it doesn't encourage people in the same way at all, does it? 

[00:18:00] Katie Bell: No, it doesn't because I think physios. You work with more than just physios. But if I'm a physio, you are both a physio, we are a certain personality type and I think we are high achievers, we are doers, we are worker bees.

[00:18:17] We, we wanna get stuff done. And I think when, because we're high achievers, we do want to be great at what we do. And we, most of us do want to be compliant. When we run the yeah. HCPC update for physio first. Yeah. Two year ago, whenever it was a few years ago, did that workshop, so many people were at it.

[00:18:37] Yeah, because so many people care, so I don't think it's an industry that doesn't care about patient outcomes and doesn't care about how we are running our business, but I think it's just been squashed by. Probably no transparency, it not being talked about enough. It not being made more regulated than it is, and as you said, Sarah, the insurance will just cover it and then that's it.

[00:19:01] You just move on and get back to it the next day. Yeah. Yeah. So the message is leave it, the 

[00:19:04] Sandra: message is leave it. And we are saying, you can't leave it because it's there. It's in the regulations and the standards that we have to work to. But if you don't understand the regulations and standards, then it does mean, there's this knowledge gap, and that's what we're trying to do something about.

[00:19:18] Katie Bell: A problem from. Is grassroots. The right saying, from like university stage? Yeah. Yeah. We were 

[00:19:27] Sarah: never taught, we were never, no, we You never taught business side of it. 

[00:19:31] No. And you 

[00:19:31] never taught the compliance side of it? No.

[00:19:33] You just come out and you just have to wing it. So we are not taught about the compliance side at all.

[00:19:38] And yeah, so they, so you can come up, set up a private practice, do your, be a clinician and never have to really think about the standards. You just tick the box. Oh yes, I apply, but I idea to them. Yeah. 'cause I'm a physio. I'm very honest. I'm a, I've got a good character yeah.

[00:19:54] Yeah. I'll just tick that box. 

[00:19:56] Sandra: Yeah, but then we get the ones who come out, and then the other thing is you need people go into the NHS or the independent sector where actually it's there, it's done. You are part of that. Yeah. And I think sometimes people forget that when you step outta those sectors, it doesn't mean those regulations and standards change.

[00:20:13] It's just you are in different position about the way you work and you understand them and where the responsibility and accountability comes. And so I think if the education isn't there. People don't quite know what to do. And sometimes people don't want to say, Sarah and I say, people will say to us, I didn't really like to say I didn't know this.

[00:20:31] And we're saying, but we don't judge you. We know a lot of people don't know this. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we set the business up 

[00:20:37] Katie Bell: and this then makes me think about those that have got, like you were saying, the NHS have got that framework there. It's, you live and breathe it within that, in that framework.

[00:20:46] Then you go and set your own practice up and you are responsible for you. Yeah. And then because you're just responsible for you, you think, nah, I'll just not look at that for now. But then you get some team members, you get some newly qualified and you build your clinic. You become responsible then as the clinic owner of building that framework of compliance for the others, don't you?

[00:21:06] 'cause the likelihood is they're coming into your business and they don't know it either. And one of the things that like really. Really gets me annoyed is this whole notes thing. We are told, aren't we? We've got to write clinical notes within x amount of time of seeing the patient and you've gotta write it in this format and dah.

[00:21:27] And that is a standard, isn't it, that we have to adhere to. One of the challenges you've always got as a clinical lead or a business owner is when your staff don't meet those expectations. For whatever reason, you've got to deal with all of the reasons that come underneath it, but you are then like, this isn't just me being a business owner giving you really strict rules. These are actually what you have to be doing. I've not just made them up. This framework already exists. Exactly. And you have to be adhering to it. But they don't often know any of that stuff. 

[00:22:03] Sandra: No. It's this unconscious, incompetent, again, back to that piece, you know that people don't understand it.

[00:22:08] Yeah. But who has sat down and looked at them all in the way that we do. 

[00:22:12] Katie Bell: And then they'd renew them and review them and change them and that's the process and itself. 

[00:22:15] Sarah: But at the end of the day, kitty as well, if they don't do dynamic and Right, you as a clinic owner, you're onto them and you're doing the training and all the rest of it getting up to date.

[00:22:23] If there wass complaint or went to the HCP C fitness practice, they're on their own. Yeah. Yeah, the clinic owners isn't gonna come with them. They're on their own because they're a professional in their own Right. Yeah. So they then have to be able to stand up in front of the fitness to practice and say why their notes aren't Yeah.

[00:22:42] As, as good as they sh as they should be. So they do fall I work for the clinic, da dah. But they are practitioners in their own Right. And in terms, so 

[00:22:50] Katie Bell: what would, what, this is just so great. 'cause it's gonna make, first of all, I think most of our ERs will go. Oh, okay. Most people don't even score above 30%.

[00:22:59] This makes me feel better about my situation and being more open to having a conversation with you both. 

[00:23:05] Sarah: Yeah. 

[00:23:05] Katie Bell: But what would be your first, like top tip? The first thing, if people listen to this thinking, this is me, like I need to pull my head out the sand. I don't know whether I am 50% compliant, 80%, I just don't know.

[00:23:20] What would be the first step that you would advise them to take? 

[00:23:23] Sandra: Come talk to us. Come and talk to us. Just come and talk to us because until we know what you've got and how you are using it, then we can't give you the advice and the education. Yeah. And people have got things, Katie, it's very rare to find people with nothing.

[00:23:39] Otherwise it wouldn't score. So people have got things, but often it's something that they've just picked up from somewhere or they've cut and paste it from someone else and they don't actually understand what they've got. So come and have a chat with us. We are not at all, people will tell you that we're here to help, but we can't help you.

[00:23:55] Tell us 

[00:23:55] Katie Bell: what you've got. I remember Sandra, it was Sarah. I can't remember if it was you or Sandra that said on one of our training sessions together or something we've done together that you said chat, GPT. And the place it is now holding in lots of people's businesses for good or for bad is not gonna cut it, it's not gonna cut the mustard because I feel like you said you could get to write your policy, but if you have no understanding of that policy and you cannot evidence how you are.

[00:24:27] Putting that policy into practice, then it wouldn't stand up in court or it wouldn't support, it 

[00:24:32] Sarah: wouldn't stand up in court. And if we were ever inspected, if we were ever inspected, having been inspected myself as a registered care home manager, I was a care home manager and had two CQC visits, they go in to everything.

[00:24:47] Wow. Everything. At two days they were in there, and it's, you won't, they, you won't get away with anything. Yeah. 

[00:24:56] Katie Bell: So don't chat GPT or policy and think that it's gonna, they need to come and talk to you 

[00:25:02] Sandra: and it's bespoke That's what we find, it's. No two clinics are the same. 

[00:25:08] Sarah: So for example, you can download go on to chatgpt, get informed consent policy.

[00:25:11] Yeah. Read it, everything. But you really need to understand how to gain consent in children. Yeah. Because that's a minefield, right? Yeah. You have to understand how to gain consent in somebody's lacking capacity. Yeah. You have to understand your whole processes around. Not just having a policy on a shelf.

[00:25:28] Oh, I've got the policy, I get informed consent. It's about patient information leaflet. It's about explaining to the patient. It's about making sure that you document it in the notes, it's doing all the risks and benefits. It's a 

[00:25:39] Whole thing that, 

[00:25:41] Katie Bell: that did we do a webinar? Was, I did a talk with you about her, talk about informed consent.

[00:25:46] Yeah. And from that, just that talk. I went into my clinic and I was like, okay, this what we thought was okay, is not okay. We completely changed how we do things now. Like I thought what we had was good, and then just some of the things that you said to me, Sarah, I was like, this is not okay. This is not that.

[00:26:07] We, now we do risks and benefits. We've got so much more stuff there for Yeah. If they're lacking capacity, what's the process that ha Yeah. We've got it all evidence. We've got it all there, but I. Unconscious incompetence, Sandra. Yeah. I was like, I thought that was okay. Yeah. 

[00:26:23] But we've done, yeah.

[00:26:24] What we've done, Kate, is like you're saying you are unconsciously incompetent. We made you consciously incompetent. Absolutely. You did.

[00:26:32] Sandra: I was just gonna say, now, would you feel confident saying you get true informed consent?

[00:26:39] Katie Bell: Yes, I would. I would. Whereas before, if you'd asked me, I've gone, yeah, we have an informed consent policy. I know that's what we should be doing. We tick a box, we do this, and we do, but. Actually until I was made more aware of people who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to the policies and the procedures and what we should be doing.

[00:27:00] I wasn't aware of the depth of what I needed in the clinic and there was, this wasn't like a massive. Thing that took me years to implement. No. And I just had to make some small changes. 

[00:27:12] Sarah: Small changes, yeah. Yeah. And your team all benefited from it. And then, you know that if you were ever called into question around, did you gain consent?

[00:27:21] This is all my, this is my patient information leave. This is my policy. This is my risk and benefit sheet. 

[00:27:28] Katie Bell: Yeah. And that makes you sleep, doesn't it? Ultimately, 

[00:27:31] Sarah: does. It does. And the co. The co the solicitor though, if he goes to court, they're the, they're gonna, this is a real professional.

[00:27:36] This professional knows what they're talking about. Yeah. So that your word and the patient's word, it would probably go more in your favour. I couldn't say that. But they will look at your professionalism and when you've got all that in place, they're gonna think this physio is what you're talking about.

[00:27:50] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:27:50] Sarah: Yeah.

[00:27:51] Katie Bell: And I think that was what we heard, wasn't it with the HCPC, that if we were to be audited, if you were gonna rock up to that with zero evidence. Zero history, nothing ever documented. They're not gonna look favourably on you. Yeah. But if they see that you have attempted and tried and done things, they try.

[00:28:07] Yes. They'll be like, okay, this person does actually care. Yeah. They've just got a gap here. Yeah. Yes. And they'll give you time to fit. Exactly. 

[00:28:14] Sarah: Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:28:15] Sandra: Yeah, 

[00:28:15] Sarah: exactly. 

[00:28:16] Sandra: And if you think of what you've just said as well there, Kate, if you were to do the HCPC portfolio Yeah. Think about what you've just told us about and all the stuff you've done around the consent standard Yeah.

[00:28:26] And all the evidence you've got. Yes. You are well on your way, aren't you?

[00:28:29] Katie Bell: If you were called in 2026 Absolutely. You've got it there. And last time we talked about on our HCPC. Then just start documenting, like listening to this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. You can evidence, you can put the hyperlink into the podcast.

[00:28:44] You can make reflective piece about what you learn, and you could do an analysis of where your gaps are. And your action point was to come and talk to Sarah and Sandra and one thing. Action. 

[00:28:56] Sarah: Because I was called for these, I was called for the CPD thing about. About four years ago and had to do it.

[00:29:02] And of course I'm not treating patients anymore. I'm doing this business, but I talked about our business, I talked about everything we do, everything we, we do. And I passed fine. Yeah. So it doesn't have to just be clinical stuff. Yeah. You can bring in this sort of stuff. Yeah. And it will be absolutely fine to do absolutely. And the beauty of bringing it 

[00:29:19] Sandra: in is it gives you two things to talk about. So you've got your clinical side and you can have this side. Yeah. And then it means, easier writing your word count. You've got in a really good focus on the business side, alongside the clinical side.

[00:29:32] Katie Bell: Yeah. It ticks loads of boxes, doesn't it? Yeah. So they need to come and have a chat with you both. Yeah. How do they do that? What, how do they, do you want them to email you? Do you want 'em to go on your website? What's the best way for them to reach out? 

[00:29:43] Sandra: They can either go to the website, which is obviously very simple, www.hcpg.co.uk, or they can email us.

[00:29:52] And that's equally simple. It's either sandra@hcpg.co.uk or sarah@hcpg.co.uk And there's 

[00:29:58] Sarah: a book, a call on our website. There's a book, a call, and it just takes you straight into our diaries and you can just book a 30 minute call with us. 

[00:30:06] Sandra: Fabulous. And also on the website, Katie, there's a link that can click on to get the newsletter with some tips.

[00:30:11] Katie Bell: Yeah, I am on that newsletter. I get it every month. It's great. So I would really encourage them to do that. I'm gonna make sure that those links, Sandra and Sarah, are in the show notes. So listeners, just scroll down on the platform that you are listening to and you can head to those links and get your call booked with Sarah and Sandra.

[00:30:26] 'cause it will I think that it will be scary for them to do it because it's that acknowledgement of, failure. They, because we're high achievers, we don't like to say, be told that we're not doing anything really well. But also that just after that moment of being vulnerable and saying, I need help here, and here, you guys then just kick into action and scoop them up and help them work through it.

[00:30:51] Sarah: Yeah, we do indeed. 

[00:30:53] Katie Bell: Great. Thank you both so much for your time. Great pleasure. Who loved this conversation. We loved talking about it. You know what we like.

[00:31:03] Thank you and please come back again soon. Lovely. Thank you very much. Thank you for having us. Bye.

[00:31:09]

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