169 Are You Tolerating What’s Holding Your Clinic Back?

Today I’m joined by Nicola, my COO in Thrive, and we’re getting into a topic that can feel a bit uncomfortable, but it is one of the most important conversations you can have if you want your clinic to grow.

Episode Summary
In this episode, Nicola and I talk about the things clinic owners tolerate that quietly erode performance over time. We explore why leadership can feel triggering, especially if you have come from workplaces where leadership looked more like dictating, bullying, or conflict.

We also talk about how easy it is to swing too far the other way. Wanting to be liked, avoiding difficult conversations, and telling yourself you do not have time can all become patterns that keep you stuck.

• If you keep discussing the same person, you have tolerated it too long.
• Avoidance often looks like empathy, but it drains you and the business.
• Most “team problems” are unclear expectations.
• If you are not tracking numbers, nobody is.
• Set simple KPIs per role, for therapists: conversion, visits, occupancy.
• Check process and training before blaming the person.
• Lead tough chats with curiosity, not aggression.
• Leadership is learned, get support and practise it.
• Your clinic grows as your leadership grows.

Sponsor
Today’s episode is sponsored by Jane, a clinic management software and EMR. The Jane team knows that when your workday is spent providing care, admin can easily spill into your evenings. Jane’s user friendly online bookings let patients book at their convenience, manage appointments, complete intake forms, and receive SMS and email reminders through a secure portal, saving you from doing it all manually. Head to the link in the show notes to book a personalised demo, and use code Thrive1MO at sign up for a one month grace period applied to your new account.

Treat Your Business podcast is proudly sponsored by MBST, the groundbreaking technology revolutionising recovery and rehabilitation. Offering a non-invasive, drug-free solution for musculoskeletal conditions and nerve injuries, MBST works at a cellular level to stimulate regeneration. Expand your services and deliver long-term patient improvements without increasing your workload.

Learn more at mbstmedical.co.uk. 

Come and join me over on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thrivebizcoach?sub_confirmation=1  

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Katie Bell: So if you want more time,

[00:00:03] income, freedom, whatever that might look like, you have to commit to being a bigger and a better, a more effective leader. Would you agree, Nick?

[00:00:14] Nichola: Completely? Absolutely. It's your number one priority. As the owner of the business to develop your leadership skills and lean into it.

[00:00:22] Katie Bell: Welcome to the Treat Your Business podcast, the show for clinic owners who want real, honest advice and tried and tested ways of [00:00:30] doing things. I'm Katie Bell, and this is the new era of bigger insights and bolder conversations to help you grow a clinic and a life you love. Let's dive in.

[00:00:40] Today's episode is sponsored by Jane, a clinic management software and EMR. The Jane team knows that when your workday is spent providing care to your patients or your clients, it can feel like there aren't enough hours in the day for the rest of your admin tasks. This can mean scheduling appointments become.

[00:00:59] The hours [00:01:00] tasks turning what should be restful evenings into extra long work days. That's why Jane has designed user-friendly online bookings. You can give your patients freedom to book their appointments at their own convenience. Patients can also manage their appointments, fill out intake forms, and enable SMS and email reminders.

[00:01:17] From their secure online portal, which saves you from having to do it manually to see how Jane can help you reclaim your evenings and weekends. Head to the link in the show notes to book a personalized demo. Or if you're ready to get started, you can [00:01:30] use the code Thrive one mo at the time of sign up for a one month grace period.

[00:01:34] Apply to your new account.

[00:01:38] We're gonna talk about something today that might feel uncomfortable for many of you listening. When a business isn't working, how often is it actually a leadership tolerance issue rather than a team or a systems problem? I am really excited to be joined by Nicola, my COO in Thrive and who's [00:02:00] also had experience of working within my clinic when she was helping, when somebody was off on maternity leave. So you're gonna get loads and loads of value from this episode, so buckle up, listen in. Welcome to the episode.

[00:02:12] Nichola: Thank you for having me again. Good to be here. 

[00:02:15] Katie Bell: You're so welcome. When a business isn't working. Is it a leadership tolerance issue rather than a team or systems problem? And my first question around this, because we're gonna really dive into it, is why do you think this topic triggers people so [00:02:30] much and do you think it's because you almost sometimes don't want to look too deep inwards because you think, oh, that's gonna take a lot of fixing, or, that isn't just a strategy I can put in place or a process.

[00:02:40] I can just follow it, feel it can often feel a bigger problem, can't it? 

[00:02:46] Nichola: I think it also depends on somebody's previous experiences in workplaces that it can be triggering if they've had a particularly bad experience themselves. And [00:03:00] they're they've gone into business going, I'm never gonna be like that.

[00:03:03] So therefore the balance swings too far the other way. 'cause they, they want to be liked, they don't want to, they want to avoid conflict. So I think that's why it's so triggering sometimes they don't realize that's what the issue is, but when you dig into it, they're trying to model something that they don't know how to model.

[00:03:25] They just know that they don't want to be that like that person. Yeah. And that's very [00:03:30] triggering 

[00:03:30] Katie Bell: and you hear that a lot Nic, when we're coaching and talking to our clinic owners that they've come from, many of them have come from the NHS and started their own business or Yeah.

[00:03:39] Or they've had a leader before. What kind of things have they had before in terms of, or experiences they had in leadership that's meant that they then don't want to be that person? 

[00:03:49] Nichola: I just don't think they've had leadership in the true sense of the word as we know it. They've just had people that were more dictators or bullies.

[00:03:58] Mainly those people, it's [00:04:00] not necessarily their fault. They may have never been taught how to be a leader either, but they've probably, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it? They're modeling bad behavior 'cause they don't know anything else. And some people will go on to do that and don't realize that's what they're doing.

[00:04:14] And then others will be more of a case. I definitely don't want to be like that. So they've not actually had. Leaders lead them that really know how to treat people well and to set out [00:04:30] clear expectations. 

[00:04:32] Katie Bell: Sure. And I can actually personally relate to that and I think you can as well, Nic

[00:04:36] Nichola: Absolutely can. Yeah. 

[00:04:38] Katie Bell: Yeah. We've both had experience of leadership that I guess from my perspective I wanted to be a present leader. Because of what experience I'd had, I wanted to be somebody that communicated well. I wanted some, I wanted to be somebody that valued my team and made them feel important and that I'm invested in their [00:05:00] development.

[00:05:01] And I didn't want to be greedy. 

[00:05:03] Nichola: Yeah. 

[00:05:04] Katie Bell: And it would be all about the money.

[00:05:07] What experience have you had? 

[00:05:09] Nichola: The, in terms of what it made me not want to be.

[00:05:13] Yeah. Fair. Just treat people with respect. 

[00:05:18] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:05:19] Nichola: For me is the biggest one. Get, take the time to be very clear about the why certain things need to happen as opposed to just telling and [00:05:30] dictating, and then being extremely harsh when things maybe have not gone to the way that they wanted.

[00:05:38] But you weren't really clear about what was it, what was the way then. What, why are we doing that? Because a lot of people need to know the why behind it and be given the opportunity to buy into that. 

[00:05:49] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:05:50] Nichola: So I think a lot of this for me boils down to creating the right culture, which you comes down to your values and [00:06:00] what you want that environment to, to be like.

[00:06:02] So that for me was something, working in several toxic environments in the past was the key thing. I was very keen to avoid ever happening again. Yeah. Wherever I went. 

[00:06:16] Katie Bell: And do you think then that based on my experiences your experiences sometimes and I guess especially in our, this is we've now went down this path a while in [00:06:30] terms of leadership and we both have leadership responsibilities in.

[00:06:33] Sometimes we can have to just self-check ourselves, can't we? Because those experiences can have shown us the way we don't want to be, and therefore the way we'd like to be. But actually sometimes we can go too far. 

[00:06:47] Nichola: Yeah. 

[00:06:47] Katie Bell: Down that road. And so what do you think then are the most common things that we see clinic owners tolerating that then just quietly erode performance in a company? 

[00:06:59] Nichola: The [00:07:00] Keith it can show up with different people in different ways. So if we put it in a clinical perspective, there will be people that, maybe these are your self-employed team who decide what their diaries look like and there's an element of they're self-employed, so you can't.

[00:07:19] Put all the employee constraints on them, but they might be changing their diaries too much or they might be blocking out things, too many gaps in their diaries. So is [00:07:30] tolerating that, which is. That is not good for business in the slightest, and it is you. That's a failure of setting out expectations from the very start.

[00:07:41] So it could look like that. It could look like somebody. The biggest one we see, the biggest frustration I hear all the time is if I hear another therapist just say to a patient or a client, see how you go. And if you need our help, come back. That's the biggest frustration from a [00:08:00] leader because if just let that person walk out the door without any form of follow up, that's not good customer service at all.

[00:08:08] That is not about the money. That's about. That person of whoever that therapist was avoiding a money conversation for whatever reason. So I think that shows up, they're tolerating that too much and they'll say they've come from an NHS background and that's just the way it is.

[00:08:27] So that's a big tolerance that we [00:08:30] see all the.

[00:08:30] Katie Bell: There, there's definitely this kind of under arching fear or overarching fear around if I say what I really want to say or if I put in boundaries and rules and expectations. They're not gonna want to work for me or they're gonna think I'm, in it, just in it for the money. And we. I was often, I was reading a an article last night actually about how our brain is instantly in fear-based decision [00:09:00] making rather than.

[00:09:01] If I tell this person that his, that he is taking the piss, that I don't want that to happen anymore. And these, the expectations, this is the process. It's gonna go really well. They're gonna be, a much better kind of person to work for. They're going to the clients are gonna get a better experience.

[00:09:17] We, we don't think that, first of all, we instantly go to, they're not gonna like me. They're money. I'm thinking money then and just. Most for many people when they're not aware of this, [00:09:30] the mindset then just rules how they run their business. 

[00:09:33] Nichola: Totally. And then Al also, you've got the other part of that as well is the fear of what if they leave?

[00:09:41] Am I ever gonna have to take on more clinical hours when I was trying to get myself out of clinical hours? Or it's, I've gotta go through that whole process again and I don't have time to do that. That's if you are, if that's where the bottleneck is and you need that person, 

[00:09:59] Katie Bell: [00:10:00] yeah, 

[00:10:00] Nichola: then you'll put up with anything because you can't see a way out.

[00:10:03] It feels like it's too. It's much more harder to start over again than it is to keep tolerating it. But that obviously, as we know, is the worst thing. 

[00:10:14] Katie Bell: It's the worst thing. It's this really short term agony pain that you have to go through of a long term gain. But when you are so tired, when you're so exhausted, when you are carrying it all you do tolerate, you do put up, and I always say to my [00:10:30] my business manager in kb, if we are talking about this person.

[00:10:34] Once a month. Okay. We're talking about them once a week. They gone go, we're talking about them daily, like they should have gone six months ago. Yeah. And then becomes a point where you have to address it because it becomes this kind of Japanese, knot weed in your company that just takes over.

[00:10:53] And it all, everybody's energy is affected by it. Your energy. And only when I was talking to Vicki on the [00:11:00] podcast a few weeks ago, she's had to remove somebody from her team. And she said, I should have done it months ago. I didn't. And it's consumed so much of her energy and time and going home and thinking about her.

[00:11:11] I talking to a wife about it and deliberating over Christmas, shall I do it? Shall I not do it? And all of that is time that you are not spent. On the bigger stuff in the business and the things that are gonna move forward. Yeah. So when does empathy turn into avoidance? 

[00:11:28] Nichola: We, with [00:11:30] what you've just said, but I would go a step further.

[00:11:32] So how much of your conversational time are they taken up? But equally, if you are talking about somebody once a month, every month, that's still. Is too much. 

[00:11:44] Katie Bell: Too much. Yeah. 

[00:11:45] Nichola: But if there if you are feeling that, that level of frustration, or even if let's say your phone rings and it's that person's name and your heart sinks, or you are immediately [00:12:00] thinking, what's the problem now?

[00:12:02] Empathy is already gone. 

[00:12:04] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:12:06] Nichola: Because that's not the way you want to be feeling about a team member. 

[00:12:11] Katie Bell: Sure. 

[00:12:12] Nichola: So I think there's a mixture, but empathy. I remember years ago that somebody told me, and this is something I always use as a bit of a sense check, you are responsible to people not for them.

[00:12:26] And then, so for me, if I am, when I know [00:12:30] I'm backing, empathy is when I feel. Responsible for them in terms of, if I have to remove them from the business or tell them end their contract or whatever, what impact is that gonna have on their life? How are they? You maybe have children, family, I might know a lot about them and that I know that the, it's gonna have a big impact on them.

[00:12:52] That was me being too empathetic. 'cause I'm not responsible for their life. I'm not responsible for the [00:13:00] choices that they make, or I am responsible too, is providing a work environment that has the right culture. Whatever that culture is for your work environment. But I'm responsible to making sure I'm very clear about expectations.

[00:13:16] And I'm responsible to making sure that there is open dialogue and clear communication. Yeah. So if I'm feeling, oh gosh, I feel sorry for them. I was in empathy far too [00:13:30] much. 

[00:13:30] Katie Bell: And I guess we talk about colors a lot in Thrive, don't we? And many of our therapists, go into this role initially, when we went to like your careers advisor when you were 15 and they told you, whatever you needed to be.

[00:13:43] Many of us went into these roles because we have a big heart, because we care a lot because I'm not saying other people don't, but we wanted to serve people and help people. And many of us are yellow and blue, which really [00:14:00] need to be liked and really struggle with these big direct conversations.

[00:14:04] So we get in our own way, don't we? We have this constant avoidance because of the fear of not being liked, which it really boils down to. And we justify, as you've just said, with. They've got family, it was Christmas, it's a Friday, I can't do it at this time. They've already got patients booked in.

[00:14:26] You know what, and we just, we find all these reasons and they are [00:14:30] excuses as to why we can't have that hard conversation. Do we see it show up differently in small teams versus maybe established clinics? 

[00:14:40] Nichola: I don't know if it necessarily shows up differently 'cause the tolerance is there regardless, but I think the impact.

[00:14:49] Is much larger, in a bigger team. I think that's the biggest challenge. Because mainly because the culture is at [00:15:00] risk. If you've got a larger team and one of your fellow team members doing something getting away with things that can start to eat away at yourself.

[00:15:12] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:15:13] Nichola: And then, so now your, the culture of the whole business of the whole clinic is now massively at risk. When it's a small team it doesn't have as much of an impact. 

[00:15:23] Katie Bell: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:15:24] Nichola: But the ripples are starting. 

[00:15:27] Katie Bell: Sure. And I think what the foundations that you [00:15:30] laid, this is something I said to Vicki when she was having to have this big conversation and she's got a relatively small team, but wants it to grow.

[00:15:37] I said, what you do now in this very moment dictates how you are going to lead your business moving forwards. Your ego, your a part of your brain needs the experience that you have stepped up. It's been uncomfortable. You're not, and I say this to clinic owners, you're not going to like these conversations.

[00:15:55] No. If you do like them, then you're weird. [00:16:00] You haven't got a heart. You are not, it's meant to feel uncomfortable. It's not meant to feel good. You are meant to leave feeling a bit bad and a bit sad about it, but a big part of you knows that it's the right thing to do. 

[00:16:11] Nichola: Yeah. 

[00:16:12] Katie Bell: But if you take those uncomfortable conversations early on in your business, as your business does become more established, you technically will tolerate less.

[00:16:20] You will act quicker. I tolerated a lot more for a long time when I was smaller and I was a newer leader, younger leader. And then as [00:16:30] the businesses have grown, both of my businesses have grown.

[00:16:33] Actually the time that I tolerate things is a lot less.

[00:16:36] Nick, let's use your operational brain from an operational point of view, where do you most often see leaders being the bottleneck without realizing it? 

[00:16:45] Nichola: When they are not able to or willing to prioritize time to. Analyze data. Things like new [00:17:00] patient conversions, for example.

[00:17:02] And so they're not looking at number any form of numbers or data in their business when they are not prioritizing the time to then speak to their team about that, whether it be it weekly, monthly. Those are the key things where I think they are, they have now become the bottleneck. So they're not doing it, nobody's doing it.

[00:17:26] So no, no one is [00:17:30] any of the wiser of what is the situation than the business. Their diaries might be pretty busy, so they're just going about the business and it's very disconnected. 

[00:17:38] Katie Bell: Yeah, and that's, and I guess that's the leaders there are. The team are tolerating, not knowing all of this stuff.

[00:17:47] The leaders are in a way, tolerating that they don't know it and they're not prioritizing it. And this is, for me, a massive game changer when you expect to grow a business. [00:18:00] Without purposefully using your time to grow a business, just flitting between client appointments and squeezing in the odd meeting with your members of team and not really giving it any thought and focus on what the year ahead is gonna look like and what you need to be working on.

[00:18:15] This is when a business stagnates very quickly and it doesn't grow and it's really a leader. They are tolerating their own story that they don't have time. To make this stuff happen. Absolutely. And if [00:18:30] leaders decided they weren't gonna tolerate this anymore of themselves, what systems would you be encouraging leaders to have?

[00:18:39] That would a help them tolerate underperformance? What? Stop them from having to tolerate underperformance? Yeah. In their company because it's all right saying okay, I'm not gonna tolerate me not having the time to do this anymore. Then they don't have the information that they need in front of them.

[00:18:57] So what would you recommend in that [00:19:00] situation? 

[00:19:00] Nichola: So let's start from the beginning. So the first process you need to have in place, it's a little bit after the horse is bolted, but one to start the journey is the right interviewing, hiring process. 

[00:19:13] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:19:13] Nichola: So that process is hiring people, not just for their skillset and experience for the job, but as a culture fit.

[00:19:22] Yeah, based on core values. Because if you can, you can't teach a value, you can't teach a culture if you bring somebody in [00:19:30] that is not on the same. Path as you, in terms of what their beliefs and their values are. It'll just become that itch that you can never scratch. They're technically good at their job, but that, oh, they rub you up the wrong way.

[00:19:44] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:19:44] Nichola: And that makes that harder to then, particularly if they're employed to do anything about it. So start there. Look at that whole process. Are you interviewing culturally as well as technically. Then in terms of [00:20:00] another process would be, okay, what are, what's the process in terms of the onboarding of that new team member?

[00:20:07] Have you got clear expectations with them? Do they know what their key roles are? Do they know what their key performance indicators are? So what are you measuring them against? Yeah. Are they clear of what that is? Are they on the same page? And now you've set the intention from the start. 

[00:20:25] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:20:25] Nichola: But for most people listening to this, they're in, they're already in that.

[00:20:29] They're in [00:20:30] it now. So where you would start now is you getting clear on what are the key performance indicators you want to measure all of your team against. And then we would normally say that one to three numbers. Measurables that every single person in your team should have. So if it's a therapist, they would have a new patient conversion number.

[00:20:54] What's the percentage of new patients coming in? Do you want to convert? They would have the [00:21:00] average number of visits they would have their the percentage of their diary time that is full. So their capacity or occupancy, there's their three numbers right there. If you, depending on what other team you've got, it could be in terms of the length of time in which say someone on reception gets back to a new inquiry.

[00:21:21] What's the guideline there? Are they are, they get responding quick enough. It could be the number of rings that the phone rings for before it's picked up. [00:21:30] There are numbers everywhere, but it's your job as the owner, as the leader of the business to determine what are the measurables for you, for the business that you need to be tracking.

[00:21:44] And then you need to discuss those with your team for individually and collectively. 

[00:21:51] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:21:51] Nichola: What they are, why they're important, what that means for everybody. And it's not just about the money. [00:22:00] So it's been okay with you being vulnerable to share that? Yes. This bit. We are in a private practice that requires financial stability and growth.

[00:22:13] It to stay alive. We don't have a government that's putting money into it, so it requires that. So that's the reality of it. But also this is about exceptional customer service, so therefore these numbers are there to protect that. Sure. [00:22:30] And I think it's about getting that balance. So that's a process there.

[00:22:32] And then having a process in place that for you unless you've got a business manager or a clinical manager, the process is for measuring those numbers. And disseminating those numbers to everybody, and a process for making sure you put in your diary catchups reviews with your team on a regular basis.

[00:22:53] Yeah. So a lot of your time as a leader is looking down on the business as opposed to [00:23:00] being in it doing, 

[00:23:01] Katie Bell: yeah, 

[00:23:01] Nichola: all the doing 

[00:23:03] Katie Bell: and I always think that the biggest challenge for many of our clinic owners, and we hear it all the times, I haven't got time. I haven't got time. I'm really busy. I'm seeing those clients and I say that one hour that you decide to not see a patient for maybe you make a hundred pounds in your clinic for, seeing a patient in that time, if you move somebody's retention rate up from 2.2 to three or four that makes you thousands of [00:23:30] pounds more a year.

[00:23:30] Yeah. If you move their conversion rate up by 10%, it makes you a lot more money a year. So it's often looking at the bigger picture and thinking actually short term, I'm gonna lose that hundred pounds. And I might just annoy that client ever so slightly because I can't fit them in when they really want to come.

[00:23:46] But they'll figure it out and they'll come in another time. Versus, I'm gonna make all this money over here for the business so the business can grow, we're in profit, we can then reinvest, we can have better people, better systems, et cetera. You then [00:24:00] have to decide, once you have all of these numbers in front of you is how long do you tolerate?

[00:24:06] Because it's all right having all the numbers, but if you consistently then tolerate under performance, but you can honestly say, is this a process problem or a people problem? And that's the first question we always have to ask before we, dive in there all guns blazing. Is that actually, have we got a good process?

[00:24:23] Have we got training? Do are we teaching these people how to retain Yeah. And convert and supporting them? Yes, we are, we're [00:24:30] doing everything we possibly can in our Yeah. Will to support them. So now this is a people problem. 

[00:24:36] Nichola: Yeah. 

[00:24:37] Katie Bell: And therefore, how long are we going to tolerate this for before.

[00:24:40] A big conversation or even just a small conversation needs to happen 

[00:24:45] Nichola: and the conversation, I think people build that conversation up into this huge thing that you are going in, like you say, all guns blazing, pointing fingers. There's a very wise woman in our team, Phillipa Aldridge or now Phillipa, [00:25:00] who says, be curious.

[00:25:02] So now I'm like you. The first question you can go in with is more, I'm curious to know what was it about your conversion that previously was at 80%, but in the last month that's been down to 60%. I'm curious to know what's going on. Why do you think that is? That's a much softer way. [00:25:30]That's going to probably give you a better return rather than if you go in quite even passive aggressive or aggressive.

[00:25:37] Some people you are gonna get resistance coming back. Whereas if you go in and leaning with curiosity and you're just trying to explore and find out what might have happened, what's going on, you are more likely to get a better conversation. So less conflict. So it, I think that's the thing.

[00:25:56] People think they're gonna get resistance and conflict. Look, sometimes it happens, [00:26:00] but you can't be responsible for that person taking it in that way. You are responsible to having the conversation 

[00:26:07] Katie Bell: with them. Yeah. Do you think, because a lot of people will say to us when we're coaching them, I'm just not, I'm just not an actual leader.

[00:26:13] I'm just not a good leader. I just don't really know how to do it. I'm like have you ever learned it? Yeah. Have you ever been taught it? When was the last time, you might go on all your CPD courses for the shoulder and for the hip and the knee and the pelvic floor. Have you actually been on a CPD course around leadership?

[00:26:27] Nichola: Yeah. No, 

[00:26:27] Katie Bell: most of them haven't. So this is, [00:26:30] I don't often think that the real issue is capability. I think often. They're so busy trying to do everything else that they don't actually work on their own self-development. Being a great leader is being super self-aware and being able to take the necessary action and the learnings and commit to being a better leader and learning how to do it than just assuming that you're going to know how to 

[00:26:58] Nichola: Leadership is a consistent [00:27:00] learning, never ending process, but you have to want to do it.

[00:27:06] You have to, yeah. So anybody's, anybody is capable of doing it if they want to. Doesn't matter what your background is. Doesn't matter as we say. What the color is that, I'm a red and technically red should be very, straightforward. Yes, I am to a degree, but I still really care about people.

[00:27:25] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:27:25] Nichola: And I really want things to be done in the right way. So any, anybody can do [00:27:30] it. But it, you have to want to, and you then you have to lean into, learning about it. Lots of, both you and I have done so much reading about leadership, so many different develop. I've worked with coaches and consultants and it's all about leadership.

[00:27:45] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:27:45] Nichola: That you just, every day's a school day. 

[00:27:48] Katie Bell: Oh and you think you've got it and bam, another situation comes in and you're like, okay, this is gonna test me. This needs courage. This needs me to step up. 

[00:27:57] Nichola: Yeah.

[00:27:57] Katie Bell: You can really grow as a [00:28:00] person as well 

[00:28:00] Nichola: and also on that you think you're doing it and then until somebody calls you out on it and you go, actually, no, I'm not. No, you're right. 

[00:28:07] Katie Bell: Yeah, we're good at, we're good at that with each other, aren't we? 

[00:28:10] Nichola: I don't know anybody that's done that ever, but yes, I know what I'm doing.

[00:28:15] I'm doing it. And then you go no you're not. No you're not. Nicola totally avoided that one, but we're human. We're human. I think that's the thing, and it's because, I don't know about you, Katie. I don't want people to feel bad. I just [00:28:30] don't. But equally there, there's a line, isn't there?

[00:28:34] When you, as the owner or the leader is feeling frustrated and bad, that's not fair on you either. And, 

[00:28:40] Katie Bell: and our job as leaders and this whole not allowing people to do, we don't want people to feel bad, right? When you have this feeling. That you are tolerating something in your business. IE, let's say retention rates.

[00:28:52] Conversion rates, right? I can guarantee 100% all my money on this, that the person that you are [00:29:00] talking about is also not feeling fulfilled. Like they're not rocking and rolling in life going, oh my God, I'm living my job. I feel really fulfilled and feel really successful. They're failing in a lot of ways.

[00:29:10] They'll know it unless they're completely out touch, in which case they should be working for you. They will know that. And so they will be feeling bad in that way. Yeah. So our job is to free them of that and support them where we can. There's gonna be many clinic owners that really are listening to this feeling quite [00:29:30] uncomfortable because they might be reflecting that.

[00:29:32] Actually, they have process issues. They aren't being courageous enough. They might have capability issues now in that they don't know what. What they should be doing and how to lead in the right way. What's the one place you'd ask them to look first? 

[00:29:48] Nichola: They have to look at themselves.

[00:29:50] Are you talking about in, are you referring to where do they look to get the support or in terms of Yeah. 

[00:29:55] Katie Bell: What do they do? 

[00:29:56] Nichola: There are numerous books out there that help you but you can read a [00:30:00]book and interpret a book in any way, shape, or form. But it's the doing. Is the key thing.

[00:30:06] So you need to get some help from people that have been there, done that before. They understand the mistakes before you even make them, that you're around people who are also experiencing the same issues. 'cause there's a collective, there's power in being part of a collective 'cause you absolutely help people along.

[00:30:29] So you need to get [00:30:30] some support in some shape or other. This is, developing your leadership skills is not a journey you can do on your own. It's just not, it's impossible. I would say that's a bold statement, but I truly believe it's impossible. You need guidance, you need support, and you need people around you that can cheer you on and say, you've got this, you're doing it, you're doing okay.

[00:30:55] Katie Bell: And encourage you. To do the thing that feels most uncomfortable. Yeah. I [00:31:00] said to Vicky when she reached out to me, she said, I've gotta have this conversation. And I said, yeah. And I told her all the reasons why she needs to have it, and we future paced. And we looked at what would, and I said you need to let me know that you've done this by Friday night at 4:00 PM Yeah.

[00:31:11] And she was like, oh shit. 

[00:31:13] Nichola: Yeah. 

[00:31:15] Katie Bell: And that's all it is. With a big hug with a lot of support. She probably would've either put that off or not done it. 

[00:31:21] Nichola: Yeah. 

[00:31:22] Katie Bell: And so you can't do this through willpower. Willpower is less than 5% of your brain. You can't do this just by thinking that you're gonna [00:31:30] be able to have these conversations if you've not already.

[00:31:33] What's changing? Nothing changes if nothing changes. So I absolutely agree, Nick, that they need to have that support around them. 

[00:31:41] Nichola: They need to have somebody that's gonna be bold enough as well to say to them. So I'm gonna swear. I'm calling bullshit on that. 

[00:31:48] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:31:48] Nichola: When they're telling themselves so much to go, actually, let's stop there.

[00:31:54] We're not gonna feed into that. What's the real issue here? What's underneath this? What is stopping you from taking [00:32:00] action and then helping you to go, okay, so let's reframe that. How are you gonna approach it? Because like I said, going back to a book or if you do an online course or whatever, you, you haven't got the accountability and you are not framing it in a way that's right for you.

[00:32:16] Like we would help in thrive, we would help someone that was a blue to do it in a way that felt right for a blue, someone that's a yellow in the right way, that feels right for a yellow. And and also on what your strengths are and [00:32:30] what your culture is about it. It's not a one size fits all approach.

[00:32:34] Leadership. That's the thing. Whereas if you read a book, it seems like it is. It's not, yeah, 

[00:32:40] Katie Bell: absolutely. Yeah. 

[00:32:40] Nichola: It's not, it has to feel authentic for you. Yes, it's gonna be uncomfortable, but you, that's where you need that support. And as you said, the accountability say okay, are you clear on what you're gonna do?

[00:32:51] Great. Let me know when it's done. And they check in. How did that go? 

[00:32:55] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:32:55] Nichola: Yeah. And that's when you just take leaps forwards in your [00:33:00] business with your leadership. 

[00:33:02] Katie Bell: And I think for everybody listening to this as we summarize really. That your business, I strongly believe, will grow to the level that your leadership grows.

[00:33:12] So if you want more time,

[00:33:16] income, freedom, whatever that might look like, you have to commit to being a bigger and a better, a more effective leader. Would you agree, Nick? 

[00:33:27] Nichola: Completely? Absolutely. It's your [00:33:30] number one priority. As the owner of the business to develop your leadership skills and lean into it.

[00:33:35] Unless you are at that stage when you are trying to remove yourself, then you need somebody else in it. But you have to model it. You have to create the culture, and culture is key for success. You can't out strategize culture. 

[00:33:51] Katie Bell: What a way to finish. You can't out strategize culture. Love that. Drop the mic and walk away.

[00:33:57] Nicola, thank you for being on [00:34:00] this week's episode.

[00:34:00] Nichola: Thank. 

[00:34:02] Speaker: Thanks for listening to the Treat Your Business podcast. Hit subscribe now and keep joining me for bigger insights, older conversations to help you build a clinic and a life you [00:34:30] love.