S12 EP39 Coaches Corner: Don’t Quit Before the Breakthrough

In this episode of Treat Your Business, Katie is joined by Philippa and Bruno for a quarterly Coach’s Corner conversation about the real patterns they’re seeing with clinic owners right now and what actually creates lasting transformation in business.

Bruno shares candidly what life and business felt like before joining Thrive, including the anxiety, overwhelm, and “winging it” that left him feeling like he was running the ship blind. Together, they unpack why so many clinic owners look for a simple checklist, why people often want to quit right before a breakthrough, and how money, stress, and fear can quietly drive decision-making without us realising.

This episode is a powerful reminder that strategy matters, but the biggest growth comes when you’re willing to be coached, stay open-minded, and do the uncomfortable work that moves you towards the future version of yourself.

Main Topics Covered:

• Why “winging it” in business creates anxiety, chaos, and a lack of direction
• What clinic owners are really looking for when they ask for “the checklist”
• The moment many people try to quit right before a breakthrough, and why it happens
• How community and trust reduce fear of judgement and help you move faster
• Why money is often used as a socially acceptable excuse, and how to reframe it as an investment
• The “that won’t work for my business” mindset, and how curiosity changes results
• How stress and overwhelm shut down clear thinking and keep you stuck in survival mode
• Why busy work feels productive (dopamine) but doesn’t move the needle
• What makes someone truly coachable, and why trust and courage matter
• The biggest return from coaching: becoming your future self and embracing fear as a signal
• What hasn’t changed at the heart of Thrive: boldness, integrity, transparency, and impact

Thank you for tuning into this episode. If you’ve been feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or tempted to quit because growth feels uncomfortable, let this be your reminder: you don’t need more information, you need the right support, the right focus, and the willingness to take the next brave step forward.

Treat Your Business podcast is proudly sponsored by Klatch:
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Resources & Links:

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Website: https://Thrive-businesscoaching.com  

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Katie Bell: Good morning, Philippa. Good morning, Bruno 

[00:00:02] Bruno: Morning. 

[00:00:03] Philippa: Morning. 

[00:00:04] Katie Bell: Welcome to the podcast. 

[00:00:06] Bruno: Thank you. Yeah. Great to 

[00:00:07] Katie Bell: be here. So this is officially our Coach's Corner episode, where once a quarter we get some of the coaching team together, and we just get to have a good old chat live on the podcast to inspire our listeners, to motivate our listeners, and for us to really talk from a place of working with clinic owners day in, day out, week in, week out, and what we're hearing, the [00:00:30] patterns that we're seeing, what's going on in the industry, the things that we're helping people with, the transformations that we're seeing.

[00:00:37] But I've got the pleasure, Bruno, of you having been a client in Thrive and still a client. You're on our Ascend program now, which is our top level program, but you've been through the Elevate program, haven't you? And you've been with us for a number of years now. 

[00:00:52] And then recently in the last year you've also moved into one of our coaching positions, so you get to work with our foundation [00:01:00] members and help support them from a wonderful place of knowing, being.

[00:01:04] You've walked the walk, you've talked the talk, and are still doing that, and provide so much value to our clients. So Bruno, first of all, if you're happy, me and Philippa are going to ask you some questions with your client-like hat on. 

[00:01:19] Bruno: Yeah. 

[00:01:19] Katie Bell: Okay. Philippa has been with me right from the beginning. We developed this idea sat on the back of the sofa, and I rang Philippa and said, "Got this idea.

[00:01:28] What do you think?" And she went, "Yeah, I'm up for it. I'm [00:01:30] keen." And here we are six years later. So what made you decide to join Thrive? 

[00:01:37] Bruno: I think I was in a place of, I'll say desperation, and I wasn't in that tight cash position yet, but I could see things were just not working how I wanted to. I had no clue what I was doing, even though I was, I had [00:02:00] been running the business for...

[00:02:01] But I've been sole, I've been sole trader since 2009, and I had my first self-employed in 2011. 

[00:02:08] Katie Bell: Okay. 

[00:02:09] Bruno: So you do the maths there. And since then I just not since ob- obviously not since Thrive, but until the point I joined Thrive, I literally just winged it, and nobody told me what to do, what to look out for.

[00:02:24] I did have some coaching with another coach before, which was good, [00:02:30] but I didn't feel it was as in-depth as what I got with Thrive, 'cause it's a much more comprehensive program. But I felt like after COVID, I'd stopped working with that coach, and i- it was just a mess. And I could just see it just going like this, and I thought, "This is gonna crash if I keep going."

[00:02:49] Katie Bell: Yeah. And I- so you, were you were in this place of desperation, and was it because you said but cashflow was like, that wasn't your biggest pain point at the time. [00:03:00] You, but you could see it was... So what was behind that? If the cash was okay, you could see it going down, what was the desperation feeling?

[00:03:08] Bruno: I guess it was a desperation to just try and understand of knowing, of growing,

[00:03:16] Katie Bell: yeah. 

[00:03:16] Bruno: Or just really get my head around things, 'cause I just didn't. Because I just thought, "How can I..." I just really running the ship blind. 

[00:03:24] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:03:25] Bruno: And I hit some little [00:03:30] landmarks here and there, but I don't even know what they mean, and I don't know if it means I'm going in the right direction anyway.

[00:03:39] So there was no plan. It was ju- it was just a bit of a mess. 

[00:03:43] Katie Bell: And w- what, how, what impact was that having in, on your life? 

[00:03:48] Bruno: I was very anxious. I wasn't sleeping well. There was lots of trouble at home because there was chaos at [00:04:00] work, so there was chaos at home. And then I was also a new dad because my girls were born on the COVID year, in 2020.

[00:04:09] So y- it was just a mess. It was just really chaotic everywhere. Yeah. It was really chaotic everywhere. And 

[00:04:15] Katie Bell: I guess you're then faced with chaos, but also a depleting cash position. 

[00:04:22] Bruno: Right. 

[00:04:22] Katie Bell: And you're thinking I just can't get out of this." You didn't know what to do to change it. 

[00:04:28] Bruno: Yeah. Yeah. And I think and I [00:04:30] remember having conversations with my husband, and he was...

[00:04:32] He could see it was going in the wrong direction, and I could see it, but I think I was... I think for a long time I was in denial or I was just head in the sand with the... How do you say that? I was just, I didn't wanna see. I 

[00:04:50] Katie Bell: just didn't wanna see- Yeah ... 

[00:04:50] Bruno: what was really going on. So I was just, I was hiding behind my video gaming, 'cause you guys know that I've had a, I had a gaming issue.

[00:04:59] [00:05:00] Problematic. I wa- it wasn't a, an addiction, but it was problematic. It wasn't full on. But I would, yeah, I would just bury the head in the sand, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And my husband could see I was doing that, so he start calling me out, was like, "What's going on here? Because this is non-sustainable, and what's going on in your business?"

[00:05:17] And I got really defensive. So yeah, it was, there was a lot of conflict- Yeah ... because of that. So it was a really difficult time. 

[00:05:24] Katie Bell: And so when you made the decision, what were you what were you at the time hoping [00:05:30] that you'd, that, that we would fix for you? 'Cause that's what a lot of clients come into the program with, like a, "I need you to fix my marketing.

[00:05:37] I need you to fix my profit." They had they have specific things that they think. What were yours, Bruno? 

[00:05:42] Bruno: Yeah, I was like, "Give me the checklist." Just give me the checklist. And this is, I think, what a lot of people expect. 

[00:05:48] Give me the checklist and I'll just go tick tick, tick. And I've literally just started doing the checklist.

[00:05:55] There was so much more work that I was missing because I was just in [00:06:00] this, I want, I was in this sort of task mode, and let me just do things that I should have done, and let me do my spreadsheets properly, and let me look at this properly. And but I wasn't, I was still in this mindset of things are not gonna work and, it's all a bit shit, and yeah.

[00:06:20] So I was just, I just wanted that checklist. 

[00:06:23] Katie Bell: Philippa, we see that quite a lot, don't we, with- Yeah ... clients when they join a program. And like you need the checklist, [00:06:30] 100%. Yeah. You need the strategy. You need the just do this, do that in this order, and let's hold you accountable to making that happen. But I guess my next question is what surprised you most once you joined?

[00:06:42] And I'm gonna link Philippa in here because Philippa is often the surprise that people say.

[00:06:47] Philippa: Surprise. 

[00:06:50] Bruno: Yeah. I think when I joined initially, I but there was this thing of the community which I didn't have before [00:07:00]

[00:07:00] Philippa: Okay. Yeah ... 

[00:07:01] Bruno: which was great. I think the surprise didn't come until eight months later, really.

[00:07:06] Katie Bell: When you were 

[00:07:07] Philippa'd. 

[00:07:08] Bruno: Yeah, basically. It was when I got out of ... I was too close to the, my breakthrough, and I was like, "Okay, let me quit. Let me just send an email. Thank you very much. I'm quitting now." 

[00:07:21] Philippa: Let me run away. Run away. Yeah, 

[00:07:24] Bruno: that was the surprise, that, looking back I can see that was the

[00:07:27] And it's the journey that a lot of people do, and [00:07:30] I see this now as a coach. But I think one thing that I initially r- was pleasantly surprised was with the community, sense of community that I've had. And I was always very scared of being judged by others and, 'cause my business was so like, I'd so shit.

[00:07:51] How can, everybody, anyone who looks is gonna think, "What have you been doing?" But I realized a lot of people in this, were in the same boat, and that made me, that m- put me [00:08:00] at ease a lot- Yeah ... at the beginning. That helped me lower my defenses a lot as well of feeling judged and scrutinized So that was a nice initial surprise.

[00:08:14] Yeah. But then there was that big surprise later on. 

[00:08:19] Katie Bell: And- Yeah ... I guess it comes back to, Philippa, we have clients that come onto the program, and we absolutely have to deliver what it is that they think they need. Absolutely. Like 100% we need to [00:08:30] do that, but we then have to weave Philippa in.

[00:08:33] And then Philippa bec- becomes the really the person that allows people to have the biggest transformations and the biggest breakthroughs, and that's what happened with you, Bruno. And we had to be very bold with you, didn't we, at that eight-month mark? And in the nicest possible way, we had to call you out a little bit on it, and because one of our values in Thrive is to be bold, and we do it professionally and we do it in the right way, but we genuinely know that [00:09:00] you're better off with us than you are without us.

[00:09:02] And so when we got that email that was like, I've got all my strategy stuff now," 

[00:09:08] Bruno: and then- I've got lots to work on. I've got lot... That's what everybody says, right? "Oh, I've got lots to work on," and, I've got my plate full, so I'm gonna go now. I'll come back later." 

[00:09:16] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:09:17] Bruno: Yeah. 

[00:09:17] Katie Bell: Philippa, why do you think we hear that so much?

[00:09:21] Philippa: Because we're on the cusp of great change, and our ego, our primitive brain, is like, "Nope, do not like this change. This could be a [00:09:30] threat." Yeah. And it's also, it's happening unconsciously, yeah? The, this idea of trying to keep ourselves safe, yes? And I put safe in inverted commas because we're moving into something we don't know, and the unknown as far as our ego, our primitive brain is a threat, yes.

[00:09:47] But actually, the more evolved parts of us, that's what we actually want. So it can be very confusing. So we experience in these mixed messages and this inner conflict, [00:10:00] and conflict is something, confrontation, that we talk about within Thrive all, all the time. That comes up when talking about teams and stuff like that.

[00:10:07] And people want to avoid that, so it's easier to go, "Actually, I'm done. I'm done now. I've got enough." And then people, just then fall back into their old ways. Yeah. 

[00:10:22] Katie Bell: It reminds me Philippa and Bruno, you know this, Philippa and I met how many years ago now, Philippa? 

[00:10:29] Philippa: [00:10:30] 2014, 2015. 

[00:10:33] Katie Bell: Really? 

[00:10:35] Philippa: Yeah.

[00:10:36] Katie Bell: Okay. So a l- yeah, because that's ... It was just as I was starting my clinic, wasn't it? Yes. So it's 2014. Yeah. 

[00:10:42] Yeah. And we both met having ... We were being coached by a coach, and we were both on that program. And Philippa and I stayed with the program for a long time. We were both extremely successful because we did the work, we showed up, we didn't make excuses.

[00:10:59] We [00:11:00] faced really difficult, challenges. 

[00:11:03] But there was a group of us, Philippa, wasn't there, that that were coached. And lots of what we then saw were people going, "Okay, I'm done now. I've got enough on, I'm just going to go and implement it." 

[00:11:14] And it might have been that they were done with that coach, and that's good.

[00:11:18] You always reach a point where you need to then go to the next thing because you might- ... be the biggest fish i- in that pond. But Philippa, you went on to continue to be coached,

[00:11:23] and so did I. And there was one other person in this group that went on to be coached, and she's running a very [00:11:30] successful business as well. And the others that were in the group, it's not that they haven't continued in business. Some of them haven't, but some of the others, Philippa, they've just and I say this with no judgment, they've just plateaued, haven't they? In fact actually- ... a lot of them have gone back to doing- ... more teaching or more hands-on stuff or, more of the day-to-day grind because old habits just end up coming back. 

[00:11:56] Philippa: Yeah. 'Cause it feels safe to a part of us.

[00:11:59] Yeah. Even though they [00:12:00] upset another part of us, they still feel safe. And when I was being coached, when we were talking about that, when I was being coached in that scenario, 'cause I still have, and we've laughed about this, more than one coach now. 'Cause why wouldn't you have a mindset coach, an energy coach, a business coach?

[00:12:16] All of that jazz. I don't know why you wouldn't. I would be really curious about when people were leaving I don't understand. This is working. Yeah. So why are you leaving? Yeah. I don't get it. Whereas I'm like I'm not [00:12:30] leaving 'cause this is really working for me and my business is growing, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay."

[00:12:34] I ... It just didn't compute until I now know what I know, yes, about how- Yeah ... the mind works. 

[00:12:40] Katie Bell: Yeah. It's so important. Yeah. What nearly stopped you joining? Like when you were in that place of desperation, you were gaming, you were hiding, you were making excuses. We had a phone call with you and went through what we thought we could help you with.

[00:12:57] W- was there any kind of reservations that you might have [00:13:00] had at that stage? 

[00:13:01] Bruno: To be honest, no. Because I was so ready 

[00:13:06] Katie Bell: Yeah 

[00:13:07] Bruno: to ... 'Cause I was looking for the right thing, right? And then I, we talked about this, but I even joined another program, which was crazy expensive- Yeah ... 'cause I was so desperate. And then I think within a day or two I was like, "God, this is absolutely insane."

[00:13:21] Oh, no, I think actually I had an onboarding call with them, and this guy was in a pool somewhere with a tank top. [00:13:30]

[00:13:30] Katie Bell: No. 

[00:13:30] Bruno: And he was r- there was people going behind him, and I was like, "What is this person?" "That I just paid 4,000 pounds to join." So I canceled that, and then I was like I need to keep looking."

[00:13:42] So I was really ready- 

[00:13:43] Katie Bell: Yeah ... to 

[00:13:43] Bruno: join your program. But I can see how some people will feel th- they will justify not joining because of costs, because they think, "Oh, it's too expensive," or [00:14:00] something like that. I think that always plays a part, and- Always ... a lot of people use that excuse to leave as well.

[00:14:05] Because they think, "Oh, I could have that money at the end of the month." But what they fail to realize is that's just an investment, that if you weren't paying for that money, you wouldn't in two, three years... Sometimes it's one year- 

[00:14:16] Katie Bell: Yeah ... 

[00:14:16] Bruno: it, it takes. And sometimes it's really quick that you get that in- investment back because all people, they really need is just sometimes that price uplift, and then in one, two months they do that, and then they already made the [00:14:30] money back.

[00:14:30] Yeah. So I can see how that can be a big thing, and this is one of the big topics, within the program, isn't it? Just that money mindset and how it stops you from making the right decision sometimes because you're so scared of losing money or you're scared of making money sometimes.

[00:14:47] Katie Bell: That's interesting, Philippa, isn't it?

[00:14:48] Yeah. 'Cause we I always think when people say no because of cost I always think, but y- you're gonna make that back in month one to two if you just- ... implement these key [00:15:00]strategies. But there's still something that gets in the way, Philippa. What is that? 

[00:15:04] Philippa: Again, it's patterns of behavior, but it's also because the shift has turned for some of them from thinking about it as an investment to them thinking about it as a cost.

[00:15:14] So they start to think that something's being taken from them, and they forget all the things that they're gaining from it. Now, obviously we're aware of the fact that, some people, their life changes horrendously and that then means that, th- life happens. It is what- It is what it is.

[00:15:29] Yeah. But it's [00:15:30] also the idea that it's being curious about when Bruno said, "I could have that money," yeah, that is so controlling, and that's exactly how we talk about not thinking about money, how we have to let it flow, and how they then block it off. And for people who do that, they're not able to- future pace, what that money is actually then generating, what other money that money is generating, the investment in their coaching themselves in their [00:16:00] business, what it's allowing them to generate somewhere else.

[00:16:03] So they, they've shifted down their view so that it's very narrow at that point. And for them as well, that is again sometimes related to a fear factor, but not even about the money. It's about something else, but it's also socially acceptable to use money as an excuse for something rather than going, "Actually, I'm really scared right now because this might actually work, and some of it's worked so far, so this means I [00:16:30] could actually have the business that I've always wanted, but I don't know what, how I'm gonna be in that."

[00:16:35] So it's easier unconsciously for me to go, "Actually, no, I just want that money. Yeah, I'm gonna go away and do some stuff. Yeah, I, yeah, I need that money," because that's a socially acceptable excuse or reason. 

[00:16:50] Katie Bell: And I think it's really interesting, isn't it, how people treat money. Because I always think when you are showing the universe that you are willing to invest in [00:17:00] yourself because you believe in yourself enough to, take your business and life to the next level- the universe repays you with that. Because, those clients that we've seen who've used money as an excuse or have finished program midway through, not because of very difficult personal challenges, that's totally understandable but because of that, what Bruno said, that I'm on the cusp and I'm very uncomfortable, so I'm gonna use like the fact I wanna finish or I wanna use money as an excuse, [00:17:30] often makes me think if that's how you are treating money, that's what you're gonna see in return, and you're gonna get shown lots of clients who also don't respect money and your time and- your effort. And y- we are asking clients to invest in us so that we can improve their health or, and wellbeing, yet for many of us, we're so reluctant to actually invest in ourselves. And it's a behavior thing, isn't it? 

[00:17:55] Philippa: It, and it's about modeling, isn't it? Yeah. If we think about modeling- Yeah

[00:17:58] we wanna model the [00:18:00] behavior that we want then to come back to us. And it's being really curious a- as well within all of this, and this is why it's reflection is so important as part of this journey, reflecting on what's working, what's not working, how am I showing up, how am I not showing up duh.

[00:18:15] Because am I at now actually is my business reflecting my internal dynamic rather than actually the strategy that I've- Yeah ... been implementing or not, as the case may be. 

[00:18:29] Katie Bell: [00:18:30] So it's fascinating, isn't it? Br- Bruno, for those clients who are listening who are like this all sounds great," but are still wanting to know about return on investment and wanting to know the real changes.

[00:18:41] There is so many we can't possibly list them all. But Bruno what's given you, do you think, the biggest return? 

[00:18:48] Bruno: The biggest return from being coached to thrive, I think, yeah, 'cause there's so many things, right? But if I had to put it all together, [00:19:00] it's just really becoming the future self that I wanted to become and I was scared of becoming.

[00:19:07] Katie Bell: Wow. 

[00:19:09] Bruno: That's probably the best way I can summarize, and it might sound a bit woo-woo for some people, but yeah, 'cause you always envisage, right? I'm a- I'm all in for all the manifestation and stuff, and visualization, lots of meditation. I do all that. But yeah, to finally be- [00:19:30] become or to get really close to where I wanted to be, it's amazing really.

[00:19:37] It's amazing. 'Cause today I can confidently say, "Yeah, that's happening. That is happening." All the stuff that I was thinking even last year or the year before, it's all happened and more has happened. Yeah. So it's, yeah it's really... it's ev- everything's changed. Things at home have [00:20:00]completely changed.

[00:20:01] My business completely changed and it's just growing still more. And there's more... there's room to... Yeah, it's just insane what's happening at the moment right now with me. I'm really, and I'm really pleased to say it's really all great. All a little bit scary still, but I'm- Woo-hoo ... I'm doing it anyway.

[00:20:19] I 

[00:20:19] Philippa: know we're on the right track. Yes. 

[00:20:21] Katie Bell: Yeah, on the right track. Yeah. I love this. Okay. So let's take our coach- our client hat off and put our coach's hat on. And we've talked about these [00:20:30] patterns already in that we, we see money being ma- being used as an excuse. Are there any other patterns, Philippa, Bruno, that we see as coaches quite often when we are coaching?

[00:20:41] And we say this without any judgment, but we say this to hopefully allow it to go from the subconscious brain to the conscious brain in that, "Oh, I actually, I act a bit like that sometimes," or, "I use those excuses." But sometimes we're not aware, are we? So this is why I wanted to bring this up. What patterns do you guys see [00:21:00] when you're coaching?

[00:21:01] Philippa: It's one of the things that won't work for my business.

[00:21:05] My business is different. Yeah, that sort of thing. And the... We're not about, it's a cookie cutter approach, if we go with that term. But it's understanding that you can still have business on your terms, yes. And understanding that won't work for my business. Cutting it off like that is really interesting to me of how people will put that in, because all I'm hearing then is a part [00:21:30] of you wants to note, is me to notice that you're different, and that's okay, and that you're valid, and acknowledge that part of you.

[00:21:37] So yeah, it's within that sort of element as well. 

[00:21:42] Katie Bell: So- But I think the... Where I was going next was like what does, what makes the difference between clients that succeed and clients that struggle? And I think what you've just said there, Philippa, is interesting because I did a podcast about this actually just a few weeks [00:22:00] ago, and it was being curious to, yes, you might feel like your business is different- but it's being open to, how could I make this work for my business? 

[00:22:09] How could... having that open mindset rather than that very closed or- ... sometimes slightly abrupt and aggressive tone with- Yeah ... "No, that's not gonna work for me." 

[00:22:19] I do feel like successful clinic owners are more open-minded and are more curious in their approach.

[00:22:28] Yeah. Would you agree? 

[00:22:29] Philippa: Yeah. And [00:22:30] al- so they're open to the opportunity of going, "I don't think that'll work for, that won't work for my business. I don't think that'll work for my business. Explain to me how that's gonna work for my business." Yeah. "I wanna know more." Yes. So that curiosity makes a massive difference to the success or, "Okay, that's interesting.

[00:22:50] You said that has..." Because obviously we've worked with a lot of different business owners. Hundreds. And go, and we're able to go, "Okay, so you're able to tell me that somebody's done that. I'm [00:23:00] gonna give it a go, and I'll see what happens. Even though a part of me isn't quite on board yet, they're willing to give it a go."

[00:23:06] I think that's really important as well within that. 

[00:23:10] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:23:11] Bruno: And, and- Karim, carry on your thoughts ... and it's also- Sometimes then I l- you just have to tweak the idea- 

[00:23:18] ... 

[00:23:18] Bruno: Based on what your business does. 'Cause I remember in one of our strategy days that you were talking about a strategy you can do, that you were doing for your clinic, which is very big, you got lots of classes and everything.

[00:23:29] We don't do [00:23:30] any classes yet, and we're a lot smaller, but I still managed to find a way to implement something very similar, which w- which is, gave me lots of return. So it's just having the flexibility and think- Yeah ... okay, those are the, that's the plan or that's the strategy for that type of clinic based on their services.

[00:23:54] These are my services. They are a little bit different, but I can still do something along those [00:24:00] lines. 

[00:24:00] So it's just having, being flexible. But 

[00:24:02] Philippa: that comes, doesn't it, Bruno, from having an open growth-based mindset, yeah? From having that ability to a- access the executive thinking and the executive functioning parts of your brain.

[00:24:16] It's also then obviously being curious as well. When a par- person says within Thrive now that when they do shut it down and say or out there, people who are listening to the podcast or been to a master class, whatever it might be, and go that [00:24:30] won't work for me," part of me is now really curious about where are your stress levels at?

[00:24:35] Yeah. Where are your stress levels at? Because I'm curious that maybe y- your brain isn't allowing you to be able to see that. So it's actually okay, so- Go and do something to lower your stress levels and think about it again and see what happens. Because I wonder if some of those people as well at that point just their stress levels are so high that if they're not going to be [00:25:00] able to see that opportunity, 

[00:25:01] Katie Bell: and we, we see that a lot, don't we? We see that we wanna t- teach you the strategy. We have the strategy, we have the principles, we have the done it for you stuff, the templates, the things that you can access. It's all there for the taking. But often we have to focus on the person first because as you said, Philippa, they can't access the executive functioning part of their brain because that shuts down when they're in high stress or they're overwhelmed they're sleep deprived, you know- they're money, short on money. All of that [00:25:30] adds to it. So it isn't a cookie cutter approach. We have to take you as a person- ... and then mold the approach around that, don't we? 

[00:25:37] Philippa: Yeah. And when we first... I'm off now. I'm off on one now. Go. When we first talk to people when they first join, and one of the questions quite often that comes up is what keeps your vibe high?

[00:25:49] What keeps you in that mindset for success, yeah? What helps you to vibrate at that high level? Loads of people will say things like exercise, getting out with the dog, family [00:26:00] days, and we'll be like when was the last time you did one of them?" I haven't got time for that." And it's all that stuff that helps them to de-stress, they put at the bottom of the list, and so their stress levels just go up and up and up.

[00:26:13] Katie Bell: Yeah. It's it... And that's a real pattern.

[00:26:16] And I guess my next question was what something that clinic owners think they need but they actually don't? And it's for me, it's often they think they need more and more information. And there is a level of our brain that [00:26:30] needs the information 'cause that helps us with processing and understanding and learning.

[00:26:34] And Bruno, you wanted to learn how to be a better business owner. You wanted to learn some shit, but we also have to really work on you first, which is not often what people think they need at the beginning. They just come in for hardcore strategy, and action, and the doing. 

[00:26:54] Bruno: Yeah. Give me the checklist.

[00:26:56] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:26:57] Bruno: Give me how do I get more [00:27:00] clients. 

[00:27:00] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:27:01] Bruno: That's one of the big ones. 

[00:27:03] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:27:03] Bruno: And sometimes you see, and fair enough, if you get, if you have someone who, started maybe six months ago, sure, they're still building a client list, but a lot of the time people join, and we've got some now in foundations, have been going for 10 years or more.

[00:27:18] Yeah. And they're like, "I want more clients." It's like, "You've already got the clients. You just gotta leverage them. Are you sending newsletters?" "No." "Are you sending recalls?" "No." So [00:27:30] do that. L- let's do that then. So there's often this thing more, and more, and more, but they've already got a lot of it there just sitting- Yeah

[00:27:38] waiting for it to happen. 

[00:27:40] Katie Bell: Yeah. But they haven't got any head space to, A, analyze that and figure it out, so they need us to help them with that. And then they also, when they see that's a gap that they need to plug or a hole they need to plug, they just can't even think where to start, and that's where they need strategy, they need checklists, they need...

[00:27:57] But we also then have the fulfillment [00:28:00] loop in because a lot of stuff gets in the way and holds people back and stops- ... them from implementing the ideas. So it's a- 

[00:28:06] ... 

[00:28:06] Katie Bell: It's really important that all of those different elements work together. 

[00:28:10] Philippa: Absolutely Yeah. 

[00:28:12] Bruno: Yeah, and sometimes it's just making it bite size 

[00:28:17] Because what you hear a lot of on the chats, on the WhatsApp or whatever, people say, "I'm overwhelmed.

[00:28:23] I just don't know how to start." And I had someone on the Q&A yesterday, on the last week, and she said, "I just don't [00:28:30] even know how to start." So it's just breaking it down, helping them break down so that they identify what's the one thing they could do that will move the dial. 

[00:28:41] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:28:42] And then coming back the next week with, "Okay, now I need the second thing."

[00:28:46] "

[00:28:46] Katie Bell: And now I need the third thing. And now..." Because that's sometimes all we need to just get ourselves into action and out of overthinking. But to do that by yourself, impossible. 

[00:28:56] Bruno: Yeah. And often- Yeah ... and I'm gonna go off. Oh, [00:29:00] you're gonna go, Philippe, sorry. You go. 

[00:29:00] Philippa: You go, Bruno. You go. 

[00:29:02] Bruno: I was just gonna say as well, and a lot of people then when they are overwhelmed or they don't know how to do, sometimes they'll do a lot of the small stuff.

[00:29:10] Yes. So they feel like, "Ooh, I've done all this." But nothing moves the needle. No. Nothing turns the dial because they... But at least they feel they soothed that part of their ego that needs them to- feel like, yeah, I'm busy, I'm doing stuff but it's not really the important stuff that matter 

[00:29:29] Katie Bell: [00:29:30] Yeah. They don't actually end up with any more money to take home.

[00:29:33] Yeah. They just have less time, less energy, less freedom, less boundaries, less cash, le- all of that. Yeah. Ph- Philippa, what were you gonna say? 

[00:29:43] Philippa: I was just... I was gonna talk about the dopamine hit. Yes. And how, people get... We get addicted to that dopamine hit of ticking off those little tasks, yes, and it gives us that short-term relief, yes, but then it gives us long-term discomfort.

[00:29:56] And it's breaking that cycle of the [00:30:00] short-term relief and all of that sort of stuff is it's... So it's the, we need to get comfortable with the short-term uncomfortable of having to break down a bigger task into smaller tasks or only doing one thing. And the business owners that come and join and work with us are capable of doing stuff.

[00:30:19] They are getting stuff done, but they're not necessarily doing the right stuff, you know- Yeah ... at that point, and it's that shift which, again, can [00:30:30] be uncomfortable because we're asking to change a behavior pattern, and to also to sit with the uncomfortable for a bit and let go of the dopamine hit.

[00:30:40] Katie Bell: Yeah. So what makes then someone really coachable? So I sometimes hear people don't know if they could be coachable. Bruno, we've got people who've joined Foundations who've been in business 10 years, 15 years plus, and they might be feeling like should I start now? 'Cause is it too late?"

[00:30:57] What would we say [00:31:00] when we look at all of our fabulous Cladeconers that we get to support? What makes them really coachable?

[00:31:06] Bruno: It's a tricky one, isn't it? I think people, they really need to... I think just be- just because they join the program shows that they are, they have, there's a part of them that has this growth mindset 

[00:31:21] Katie Bell: Yeah 

[00:31:21] Bruno: But what will stop a lot of people is just their fears of being more than what they are. Like Philippa said, of staying [00:31:30] safe because staying in the known, even if it's shit, is better than the unknown that I've no idea what's out there.

[00:31:40] So I think a lot of people, what makes them coachable a lot of the time is if they're brave enough, courageous- 

[00:31:51] ... 

[00:31:51] Bruno: To stop and look in the mirror and just thinking, "God, I'm really tired of myself. I'm really tired of [00:32:00] this same old," 'cause nothing changes until something changes So it's a really tricky one because you don't find out...

[00:32:09] Often you don't find out people are not coachable until maybe six months later or a year later that... And we've had this before, right? People have stayed in the program for a whole year, and they literally implement nothing. Even though they participate on all the calls, they attend all the pods, they come to the strategy days, they just don't do anything, and then they leave a [00:32:30] year later without having implementing anything and thinking that everybody was against them.

[00:32:34] Because they're so unwilling. The, it's so hard for them, and again, saying without judgment, but it's so hard for them to just break through their fear. 

[00:32:45] Katie Bell: Yeah.

[00:32:47] And I guess it's, on the surface, it's if somebody said to me are you coachable?" I would say, "Yeah, I'm really coachable," because I have an open mindset, I'm growth-orientated I'm really willing to be uncomfortable.

[00:32:58] I need somebody to [00:33:00] stretch me. I can get bored too quickly. I need direction. I need focus. All those things are like I'm able to say, but actually in the moment, it's that ability, as you've just said to really just go, "Fuck it, I'm gonna just do it, and I'm gonna put the trust in these people," rather than be ex- almost from a place of an expectation that it's gonna go wrong.

[00:33:23] We see that quite often, don't we? That sometimes a part of us expects that we're not, that they're not [00:33:30] trustworthy. That actually these people seem to really care, so there must be something else underneath this that- 

[00:33:35] ... 

[00:33:35] That they're not showing, or they must be in it for the wrong reasons, or...

[00:33:39] It's like we're looking... Philippa, you've seen this quite a lot, haven't you? And try and distill it in a better way than I'm doing. What's going on there? People like they're looking to trip us up, or they're looking to... There's something 

[00:33:50] Philippa: that's not there. That comes... That, yeah. Yeah, but that comes from their perception of what people, yes.

[00:33:58] And that can, this can come from [00:34:00] their experience of teachers, their experience- Yeah ... of leaders in other places, yeah, and them perceiving that we will be like that. But we've all... We have noticed that- The p- some people will take quite a while to come and join us, yes. But that's because the trust is building.

[00:34:19] Some people trust straight away and they're like, "Yep, I know you've got my back. Great." And they know, I think it's that knowing that we're on it together. Yeah. That they're not on their own. [00:34:30] You talked, Bruno, about the community feel. Yes. I think it's that community of not being on your own, own the trust of these people aren't against me, they are actually with me.

[00:34:41] And I think for me, what makes somebody coachable is because I am coachable. I love it. It's that idea of tell me what to do and I will just do it. 

[00:34:51] Katie Bell: Yeah. 

[00:34:51] Philippa: Because I do just do it. That's just how I am. I don't think about anything else because I believe that you have my best interests at heart. [00:35:00] Yeah. And so therefore, I will just do whatever one's coach says.

[00:35:04] Yes. It-- for me, that's that trust and we've talked about the dog thing before, but I am very much like dog sitting there going, " Tell me what to do, and I'll do it. I will do the next thing." Because also there's that element of- The, y- why would you put it out there in the first place if you didn't know what you were doing?

[00:35:26] Yeah, for me. So it comes down to trust. It comes down to [00:35:30] having that ability to do whatever it takes. Yeah, I'm prepared to do whatever it takes. When you were talking, Bruno, I heard that energy behind that of everything is so out of control, chaos was the word you used, that I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to make a difference here because everything else isn't working.

[00:35:48] And that idea of the open mind, the growth mindset. Again, it comes down to the colors, doesn't it? But, how long have we got before I get overexcited about the colors? Yellows, incredibly [00:36:00] competitive. Yeah, you lot look good, right? Yeah, you're saying some good stuff. I'm off. Boom. Yeah. Reds, oh, some evidence.

[00:36:07] Lovely. You've given me some testimonials, right? I know that those are people, and I might have even gone and looked maybe on to see if those people are real people. Yes. Great. Excellent. Greens will have done far more research on us to learn to be able to trust us as well. Blues have to have a feeling that we're human.

[00:36:26] I'm blue, yes. And that they can trust us in that [00:36:30] respect, and then that's it. But it's having that open mind is so important within this. And knowing that you have to do something. It can't just be all the coach doing stuff. You have got to be part of it. You can't just sit there and by osmosis it's gonna happen.

[00:36:51] Yeah. If you hold a, like a diet book back in the '80s to your head, that's not how you're gonna look, lose weight. Yeah, you actually have to do the [00:37:00] diet. Yeah. But yeah. We're not going into the mindset of diets, all right? And when- whatever. Yeah. Yeah. But may or may not have been a joke that me and my friends used to have.

[00:37:10] If I just hold it here, may- maybe it'll just go flow through me. Yeah, you have to be part of it. You are actively involved, and be prepared to be actively involved. 

[00:37:22] Katie Bell: Yeah. Philip, you've been a absolute vital part of Thrive from day one. We... It was you [00:37:30] and me in the early days just together doing it all.

[00:37:32] Six years now. Bruno, you've been a huge part of Thrive and will continue to be a huge part of Thrive, I hope for many years. What hasn't changed since day one in Thrive for both of you? What is still what is still there? 'Cause we're an evolving business, we're a growing business.

[00:37:54] We have new team, we have new systems and processes, and we've got bigger strategy days, and we're helping more [00:38:00] people and there's a lot going on. But what hasn't changed for you both? 

[00:38:03] Philippa: The passion to help business owners create a bigger impact. Yeah. 'Cause there are so many beautiful business owners out there who are, beautiful in all aspects, yeah, sounds very woo, who are struggling and who can actually make an even bigger difference if they just make some relatively small sometimes tweaks to their business [00:38:30] and actually start to actually realize that they have the ability to, without sounding corny, thrive rather than just survive and struggle.

[00:38:40] Yeah. And being part of that, that, the passion of being part of the ripple effect is massive for me, and I think that's been within all of this too. And I think when you were sitting on that sofa that, that was one of the things we talked about as well, on the back of the sofa, and you said, "I've got this idea.

[00:38:58] All these people out [00:39:00] there, they're really struggling. So I'm thinking we might do this." Yeah. Because actually we can help people to not struggle. Yeah. And life shouldn't be a struggle. 

[00:39:12] Katie Bell: Absolutely. Doesn't need to be. 

[00:39:14] Philippa: Nope. 

[00:39:15] Katie Bell: Bruno, what about you? What has changed inside for you? 

[00:39:19] Bruno: So as a client, I think- My fear is still there, but I deal with my fear in a very [00:39:30] different way these days.

[00:39:31] So my fear, it's-- I, I embrace it a lot more these days, and I use it as I use it as, how do you say that? A signaling system. I use it ... I use my fear as a way to know if I'm in the right path or not. 

[00:39:48] Philippa: Yeah. 

[00:39:49] Bruno: And so that, that hasn't changed for me, and I still ... I s- But I engage with it in a very different way. 

[00:39:57] And I think as a coach, [00:40:00] what I ... So what I felt as a client that Thrive was, is bold and likes to challenge people.

[00:40:09] It will challenge your thinking, will chal- challenge your mindset. It will challenge how you're doing things. I think me as a coach I see myself doing that with people now. So I like to think that I'm still doing that work that was done with me- 

[00:40:22] Katie Bell: Yeah ... 

[00:40:22] Bruno: and that I've seen done with others, now I'm doing with people from foundations and sometimes from Elevate w- on the Q and A's.[00:40:30]

[00:40:30] So because th- that's another thing as well that will stop people from growing, is if we don't challenge people, don't challenge their assumptions, and don't make them question why do you think that is? And why do you think that is?" And keep digging and keep peeling the layers of the onion until some

[00:40:48] 'Cause all we can do is just hold the light, and they have to really do the work. And sometimes Philippa will just say it, because sometimes people are so resistant- ... to [00:41:00] saying themselves. It's "Just tell me what it is." And then she says, "Ah, okay. Thank you." But yeah, so that challenging. 

[00:41:07] Katie Bell: Yeah. And whatever w- however Thrive grows and moves and c- continues to grow, I feel those key elements, Philippa, the passion about why we originally started this, Bruno, the ability for us as coaches, and as the wider team grows, our coaches, w- we are working to a standard that means that we are challenging clients in a [00:41:30] professional and very kind way.

[00:41:32] We are bold with our coaching. We, we are not becoming a company that is losing all the things that has got us to where we are now. I think that's really important- ... for people to know as well. 

[00:41:44] Philippa: Absolutely. It is really behind everything that we do. Every conversation that we have- 

[00:41:50] Katie Bell: Yeah

[00:41:50] Philippa: It is still there. The reasons why we started are still the reasons that are keeping us, continuing. 

[00:41:58] Katie Bell: Doing the do- ... every day. Yeah. Absolutely. So if people had got

[00:41:59] 30 seconds before they [00:42:00] switch this podcast off, what's the one final thing that you want them to hear you say?

[00:42:06] Bruno: I think if they want

[00:42:09] To challenge themselves, but also work with a company that has a huge level of transparency and integrity. I think they'll struggle to find anyone better out there to really guide them. Because I've ex- [00:42:30] obviously experienced it, and then I see now what's happening to other members. So if you want that integrity, absolute transparency, be challenged, embrace your fears, let's go.

[00:42:44] Philippa: That's it. Just do it, basically. Yeah. And for me, my pa- my little bit would be, if you're listening to this podcast, this is the sign that you've been looking for Come on. 

[00:42:59] Katie Bell: [00:43:00] I did do an eyebrow thing. 

[00:43:01] Philippa: I wanna do a drop of 

[00:43:01] Katie Bell: my- 

[00:43:02] Philippa: Yeah, I did a little eyebrow raise then. Yeah, for those who can't- You 

[00:43:06] Katie Bell: did an eyebrow raise.

[00:43:06] I love that. 

[00:43:06] Philippa: Yeah. 

[00:43:07] Katie Bell: I love that. But then everybody watching on YouTube, they'll have seen it as well. Yeah. They'll have seen that. Yeah. Dorothy Bruno, thank you so much. This has been a really wonderful episode. I think it's given great value and I hope that, I hope people take inspired action.

[00:43:20] Philippa: Thank you. 

[00:43:22] Bruno: Thank you.