Don't miss our enlightening conversation with Pastor Emmanuel, who shares his incredible journey of starting a church in Romania with a unique vision. Born out of a desire to make the Kingdom of God accessible to all, especially non-religious individuals, Pastor Emmanuel's church has grown from a humble start to a bustling place of worship with over 250 attendees each Sunday. Pastor Emmanuel's story is a testament to the transformative power of faith and the miraculous ways God provides.
Don't miss our enlightening conversation with Pastor Emmanuel, who shares his incredible journey of starting a church in Romania with a unique vision. Born out of a desire to make the Kingdom of God accessible to all, especially non-religious individuals, Pastor Emmanuel's church has grown from a humble start to a bustling place of worship with over 250 attendees each Sunday. Pastor Emmanuel's story is a testament to the transformative power of faith and the miraculous ways God provides.
I'm Courtney Markley, and this is the Heart of Money. Talking about money can be really hard and uncomfortable, but it doesn't need to be. The problem is, we're taught to think about money in terms that are too much like science, with rules and regulations, and not enough like psychology, with emotions and nuance. Join me on my mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time. Thank you so much for joining us today. Everyone, I have an extra special guest. I think I say that every week, but this week we have someone really, really special joining us all the way from Romania. We have Pastor Emmanuel. Welcome, emmanuel.
Speaker 2:I'm glad to be here. Thank you for your invitation.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So just to give the audience a quick background as to how we got connected and what you'll be sharing with us today, some of you guys may know that back in the summer, I joined a church group and we went to Romania for two weeks to help out with a camp that Pastor Emmanuel's church puts on.
Speaker 1:I believe this was the second year that you guys have put on the camp. It was beautifully done and we got to spend two weeks just embraced by this local church and we just absolutely fell in love. It was very inspired to hear how God is working in Bayamare and how he is working through your church and through the hearts of the people who attend your church, and it's such a beautiful story and I think that's the beauty of podcasts, as we get to be inspired by other people's beautiful stories. So thank you so much for coming in and I would just love for you to share with people, first of all, how your church got started. So you just celebrated your eighth anniversary, Is that correct? You've been now with, I believe, for eight years.
Speaker 2:Yes, we just have the celebration of eight years last week.
Speaker 1:Congratulations. How was it? I saw some pictures on Facebook, but how was the celebration?
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually it was amazing. We had a great, great time together with all the church. We had some interesting presentation there. We ordained five deacons, so oh, wow. It was pretty. Yeah, it was really, wow, really powerful. What happened there?
Speaker 1:That is incredible. That's really, really incredible. I didn't know that. That's amazing. I love it. So if you could, emmanuel, take us through what was happening eight years ago that prompted you and some fellow friends to start this church.
Speaker 2:Actually, the story, I believe, began in 97, when I was 17 years old. God spoke to me that it would be a time when we should plant a new church and then, in 2015, it was actually happening God led us to plant a church in a neutral building. All the churches in Romania has a church building, so God called us to plant a church in a neutral building. As you know, we have our meetings running into the cultural house of our city, and that is important because many people are not willing to enter in a normal church, but they can easily enter in the cultural house, for example. So God called us to plant this church for non-religious people.
Speaker 2:Actually, we have people coming into our church from Statenik movement here in Bayamare. We have all kinds of people coming to the church. So this is what God called us to do, and we plant this church in 2015 with a group of friends. God put this in our house and we did it, and God was faithful to His promises. So now we just celebrate eight blessed years. So praise be to God for everything.
Speaker 1:That is amazing, that's really amazing. So I love what you just shared. We created this church for non-religious people. Yeah, Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing? I want to raise my hand. I'm like that's the church I want to go to too. And you're right, it's very welcoming from the front. It doesn't look like your traditional church building. That's the. You know, when you think of Romanian churches, the stereotypical looks unassuming, if you will right, when anyone can come in and be comfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually that was our dream to be able to have a church where people can easily enter and then everybody who step in to feel accepted and beloved. In many, several churches in Romania religious churches when you step into the church you may feel that maybe somehow you are not fit in that kind of church. So our dream was to create a place in such a way that the Kingdom of God to be more accessible to any kind of people Drug addicts, satanists, people, any kind of people. That was our dream to make a church actually a place where the Kingdom of God it will be more accessible to anybody actually.
Speaker 1:That is a beautiful dream, I love it, and you've seen God follow through and provide, and now you started with eight families, I believe. And tell me how many families go to your church now?
Speaker 2:I believe right now we have like 250 people coming to our church every Sunday. We grew exactly as you said at the beginning. We have been like 16 persons. Yeah, actually we have not been focused on people and with numbers, but God take care of us and, as he promised, he send us people to take care of and then he send us people to help us in our ministry. So everything we did was actually pretty easy, because God is so faithful in what he's promising.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing. I don't know if I've heard anyone describe their church planting experience as easy, so that's amazing. I love hearing that. Something that I want to point out for people who are listening, that is, anyone who's ever gone to another country and especially, you know, had the opportunity to go to church in another country and in a different culture you obviously start to see some of the differences. Right, you're seeing what feels familiar, but also what is new and different, and one of the things that clearly stuck out when we came to visit was this understanding that everyone at your church is a volunteer, so yourself included, the pastors, everyone who's there at the church serving. They're serving voluntarily, they're not getting paid for it, and that was something that is really unheard of in the States. That's not something that I could find easily.
Speaker 1:Anyways, and as we were spending time in camp, you know we had a lot of downtime, right, you're there for a whole week and you're just, you know, relaxing and enjoying each other's company, and we got to sit down and talk to a lot of the folks at your church and recognize that.
Speaker 1:You know some of the people who were there at the beginning, who helped to plant the church. They actually lost their jobs when they made that transition from the traditional Romanian churches to starting the church where you really wanted it to look like the body of Christ, right when anyone could come. So some people lost their jobs. And then we heard from people such as yourself who maybe they own businesses and you know they shifted their priorities a bit right, where you took potentially a pay cut so that you could have time to serve the church. Like I said, it's really unheard of in the States to hear of a church. Maybe you might find the one or two people who are doing this, but collectively everyone's doing it together and I think it's just a testament to what God is doing in your church and in the lives of everyone there. So can you tell me more about your experience?
Speaker 2:Yes, you have right, it was true. When we start the church, two of our colleagues they lost their jobs because they were working as teachers in one religious high school here in the city and because they left the traditional church they was not welcome anymore there. So, yes, it was true, but they were before we start the church. They were aware of this risk, sure. So we knew that sometimes strange things may happen. Everybody is happy, even they had to pass through such a situation and of course we have this strange setting.
Speaker 2:Like you said, nobody is paid in our church, not because it will be a sin to be paid Actually, it's absolutely biblical to be paid for your work but we decided that in order to have more people involved in the ministry, nobody should be paid, so that if we don't have enough stuff, then we will bring some new people in.
Speaker 2:We will encourage others to step into the ministry, not to pay one guy to deal with all the problems in the church, but to involve maybe 10 people, 20 people, 30 people to do the same job in order to cover all the church needs. And nobody is paid for that. When the war started and we had to plan this charity center that we have in our church. Actually we had people who went to their bosses and they said we want to work less hours because we want to be able to involve ourselves in the charity work more. And of course they had to receive less money for their less hours working, but they could, with all their passion, involve more in the charity work. In the church work, including me and my colleagues nobody is paid because we want to be able to work with passion but also to bring more people into the ministry. Volunteer everybody to be a volunteer.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, I love that explanation because it speaks to the community that you guys have created. Again, this was just one of those things I was highlighted for our group as we were meeting your church and spending time with your church family, that it really was this deep sense of community between. It seemed like everyone you know, not just a small group of people at the church, but everyone seemed like this big family. I love what you're highlighting here. You know, we didn't want to just hire someone to fix all the problems, but we wanted to invite more people and create more ministry opportunities for other people to come and use their gifts at church.
Speaker 2:Yes, this is true, and also we have another thing happening together with this type of vision of being a volunteer. Actually, everybody who is involved in our church, they work only because they are really passionate about it and because there is no money in the middle. So if you want to ministry in our church, you need to make some sacrifices. So you will not be able to make any sacrifices if you are not really passionate about God, about the calling that God has in your life, because the money are not existing in our jobs in our church. So actually we are able to be thinking from the beginning of this. We gain a lot of positive actions from everybody involved because everybody who is involved work because they are passionate. So this is really amazing and it's pretty efficient, actually most efficient.
Speaker 1:Oh, I believe it. From not talking to leadership, but talking to people who attend the church and serve in the church. The feedback that I got from a lot of them was you know, it was great. I told them this is what I'm passionate about doing, or this is what I'm gifted in, and they said, great, go do it. Yeah. And so you just open the door and said, great, like we'll encourage you, we'll support you, like here you go, here's your mission field. Like get to work right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually that's the way the charity center actually was born. As you met Niko, yes, when the war started, he had this passion and he had this dream I would like to have a charity center and the charity shop. And he came to us and he said I want to do this. And as church, we said, oh, that's great. These men were sent by God in our church exactly for this time, exactly with this gift, exactly with this passion. So we said, okay, Niko, do it, we help you, we give you anything you want. Do it because this is God calling for you and for our church, of course. So it's really unbelievable how God sends people to us in our church to start a lot of ministry that we are doing today, only because they have this passion on their calling.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, and I think it's just truly incredible because, again, it's counter cultural to at least what we're used to seeing in the States and I think in a lot of churches probably. You know, normally if you want to serve in the church, they say great, these are the specific areas that you can come and serve, versus. Well, why don't you tell us what God has called you and then let us help, support you know? However, we can, and it seems to be efficient it was the word that you used earlier because you have you built a beautiful charity center.
Speaker 1:I know Niko, he was our guide, he was our right hand man while we were there just truly incredible, servant of the Lord. And I believe he goes and delivers supplies to Ukraine once a month or so and brings just like massive amounts of food and clothes and all these things that people need. And then you have this door there in Bayamari where people can come and get things as they need it. And so it's just amazing to see how the kingdom of God flourishes and how the people in your congregation flourish when we're just able to encourage them to step into those God given calling.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's amazing. We are amazed about everything God did in our church, with us, through us, we just want to see the kingdom of God coming near to the people more and more through social work, through any kind of ministry that we have.
Speaker 1:Amen. My next question. I'm sure a lot of our listeners have the same question of okay, if no one at the church gets paid, like, where does all the money go? You know, assuming that people are giving to the church. You know, one of the things that again we noticed was when we were talking to you, or a different leadership, about money, in regards to money in the church and supporting ministries, you guys seem to take a different approach and thought about money in a unique way. It was very refreshing way than what we're used to seeing in the state. So can you give us a bit of more insight? How does your churches view on money differ from others?
Speaker 2:I don't know the other, but for us it's actually really true thing to understand that God is the serve and the origin of everything in this universe. So when God told us to plant a church, we had no money, we had no building. We had only our calling and our passion and our love to do what God wants us to do. So we knew that if God called us then he will provide. But maybe I had another advantage because before that I planted a business. When I plant our business as a family, we did pretty much the same thing, like we did with the church. We asked God if he wants us to plant a business, a kingdom business, and our focus on our business is not on money but on people. And if we look at Jesus, jesus had the most efficient and successful business ever. And if you really try to understand why Jesus had this amazingly successful business and in this process to understanding why we found out that Jesus had this amazing success, because he was solving people's problems. So in our business we are not focused on money, we are focused in solving people's problems. And if you are solving people's problems then you will have customers, then you will have money. So in the church again.
Speaker 2:When we plant the church, we knew that we need to solve people's problems. In our town there was some drug addicts people, there was some broken families. There are some poor and needy. There are some people they lost their husbands or their wife or their parents. So we want to help everybody who is in need. So we are sure that if we have a project that is from God, then the money will come from God, because he is the provider. That's why we are not focusing the church to have money. We are focusing the church to be in this people's service, to solve people's problems, and when the money will be needed, God will provide. And he did it and he will do it again. There is no doubt here. When we don't have money, we pray God. We want to make this project or this project. We have no money, please provide. And actually it's happening.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing that. And so what is the church's attitude in those seasons where maybe you don't have money but you have a project or two on your heart and you can see the potential fruit that could come from it? I hear a lot of different ministries that it can get kind of grumpy. They say, well, if only we had money. Money is the number one issue right now. This is the thing that we lack. If we had that, then everything else would fall into place. I'm curious what is your attitude like when you're in those seasons of waiting to say, okay, we would love to do the same, we don't have the money at this point, let's pray about it. What's happening for you guys behind the scenes during those times?
Speaker 2:Actually, we had already some situation when we had lack of money and we had urgent needs. For example, we opened our church in 2015 in summertime. We prepared the building, we renovated it in the summertime and then we started the church in the autumn time. But in the wintertime, in a really rainy weekend, when we step into the church in a Sunday morning, actually, the water was coming from the roof directly into the piano, directly into the sound system mixer and everything that we had there oh, my goodness, it was pretty strange that the rain was not going in other places but especially into the piano and to the electric stuff that we had there, of course. And we said, oh, that's a problem. We didn't know that the roof was so damaged. So we need to repair the roof. And that was pretty expensive for us, since we never had money in our bank account at the church At that moment. We had like $150 in our account and we needed only to buy the materials for the roof, maybe like $5,000, $6,000. So we get together and we said what should we do? Some of us said we should move out from this building and rent another building, because it will be too complicated to renovate the roof. But we said, okay, but it's better to pray to see what is the will of God here. So we prayed, and almost all of us. We understood that we need to stay there and to repair the roof without money. So we said, okay, how we will reach this pounds, this money? Because we need to buy the materials and to pay the labor work for this roof and we have only $150. So at some point we understood that in our situation we need a miracle. So making economies at that point will not help us. From $150. There is no help to make any economy. So we decided that we need a miracle. So in order to be sure that we understand that we need a miracle, we decided to donate a lot of our money. So one church from our town came in that very day when we had this meeting and they asked for some help because they had a project and they needed some support. And we said we don't have much but we give you what we have $150. So we had then zero money in our account. But in very short time one brother in the church. He said I want to pay for all the material. And then another church from Austria sent us I don't remember now, but maybe one or two thousand euros. So in less than a month we had everything we need to repair the roof and we actually did it. The roof was repaired.
Speaker 2:So when we don't have money, we know that we have a father and we pray for it. God invited us, through Jesus, to search for the kingdom and everything else. We will receive it from God. So this is what we do we search for the kingdom in our business, in our church, and if there is a need, we just pray, because God is the provider. And for us it's not just the Bible verse for encouraging in the time of crisis. It's a truth. This is a truth for us. So it's pretty easy to run a church when you understand that God is who he is and Jesus is the head of the church. It's pretty easy to run a church when you understand this truth from the Bible.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing. That's really really amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, God is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he really is. He really is. I mean, I feel like it's just unheard of to hear these stories and I mean all glory to God, right. Yeah. But just say, you know, we realized we needed a miracle, so why not give away the rest of our money? Why not give away the rest, that one? There is someone else who came with a need.
Speaker 2:This is actually biblical. Yes, because when you put a seed in the earth, what you are seeding, that is what you are harvesting. So if you need a miracle in your finances, I believe it's not quite good to start with make economies. If you need a miracle, you need to put the right seed and then it will grow. Of course, as people, we need to make economies. It's why to have economy. But when you need a miracle, I don't know if it's helpful to try to make economy.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yes, I hear what you're saying of you know off, at our first reaction is okay, I need to hustle harder, I need to make more money, I just need to go out and you know, and really, as you're pointing out, you know what are the seeds that you're putting in the ground Right. Are they full of Christ or are they full of something else? Yeah, you know, whatever's in that seed is going to be what grows Right. I love that analogy and I'm thinking of, you know, the widow in the two mites and how she gave away everything she had. And it's just kind of dawning on me listening to you talk of you know. Well, maybe she wasn't looking for wealth, Maybe she just came in already knowing that she needed a miracle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, For us it's pretty clear. Of course, there is not easy every time, but God allows us to pass through some seasons when it's harder, when we have some challenges, but always we need to trust God in every season, in every situation. So this is part of our maturity and of our growing process. But those who trust God, they will never fail, because God will never fail by being faithful to his promises. So you ask us what is happening inside when we don't have money? We pray. We did it so many times and we still got doing amazing things so many times. So we don't have doubts now we actually. We are in a season when the culture house is broken and they need to evacuate us, maybe in the near future.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I didn't plan to tell you this, but somehow came up, and now we are working in a new project which involves like five million euros. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:We want to build a civil center in which to have charity shops, to have medical care for people, to have counseling for people, to have services for widows, to have services for orphans because always the widow and the orphan is in the heart of the father, absolutely. To have a sports center, to have marketplace and, in the middle of all of this, to have a church, actually a place, a room where the church can meet and actually this is the kingdom of God embassy. Actually, this is our vision, but we have no money again, so we need five million. But since God is the origin of everything, we are so calm and peacefully because we know God will provide. If this dream is from him, this will be made effortless when we start the church.
Speaker 2:I pray God, we work, we are hardworking, we renovate this together with our kids, with our wives, with everybody. We work with crazy to renovate that building, that old building. But it was effortless because no one felt that, oh, this is too much, we don't have energy, we don't have money. It was effortless because it was a huge hard work from the rest in the spirit. So now we have to probably build a huge center.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I was praying God, I want to do this. We are faithful to your calling. If you are calling us to do this amazing work, to build a civil center, a huge building, we are ready to do it. But we want to be effortless. I don't want to have all of our energy, of our resources gone and then to be focused on the wrong things, to be focused on money, to be focused on building, not on people. That will be a total fail for us. So I am really believing that God will provide. I have no idea how, but I really believe that God will provide. If this dream is from His heart, then the resources will come effortless. So this is, again, crazy.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's again that time of it's just going to be miracle, right Again, yes, Again.
Speaker 2:But God is able.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:God is able.
Speaker 1:That is amazing and I will say again, just seeing the work that God is doing in the hearts of the people in your church community. So we heard the news about your church building. So, for those who may not have caught it when Emmanuel said it, the building that they've been renting the owners have gone bankrupt and so they're not going to be able to stay in their current space, and I think you guys were just finding this out about the time that we came to visit.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was like very fresh right, when people were hearing this. Yeah, and, like you said, this isn't just any building. Like this is a building that people have poured their heart and soul into. Right, when whole families coming and working on this together. Like this has been a love project for you all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, You're hearing that you're going to now move. Right, You're being forced to move and, without fail, every single person that I talked to was excited to say, well, this is just another opportunity for God to show off and we can't wait to see what he has next. Like this is going to be exciting. Yeah, and you know, no one was stressed, no one was. You know I would be freaking out from there. You know it's like heartbroken. I'm like what Do you know? Like I can't believe this. And, yeah, every single person I talked to is I can't wait to see what God's going to do next. Yeah, Obviously he has something planned. It's going to be great and we're just along for the ride. You know we're here again.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful, beautiful testimony to just the way a God has moved in each person's heart there and you know, everyone listening you can tell why. I wanted to hear Pastor Emmanuel's story, to hear their heart, to hear what's going on in another part of the world, and I'm so thankful that you're able to share with us. And the last question for the day I'm just curious what advice do you give to people who come to you and they say they just want to live more like Christ? Right, Because what compels me when I'm listening to you is, you know, it sounds so effortless and easy and yet somehow we still can, like, twist it and make it feel really burdensome and heavy and difficult. So I'm just curious you know, what do you tell someone who comes to you and they say I want to live more like Christ, but I don't know what that actually looks like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a crazy question to ask and the answer is, from the question crazy. What I will advise someone who want to live like Christ is to be a seeker. You know Bible says that knock and it will be. Open and seek and you shall find. So I know from my experience.
Speaker 2:I was born again at 17 years old. I promise to myself and to God that I will never be a normal Christian. Let's go to the church every Sunday that is involved in some kind of ministry. I promise God that I want to have 100% everything that I have to be involved in His work and in His plans for my life. But after like maybe 10 years, 11 years, I realized that I'm a Christian. I do everything I can to work for God, to be involved in serving others, but somehow something is missing. So I did a crazy prayer at that moment and I asked God please teach me the real faith, that authentic faith, no matter how much will cost you. So it was crazy to make that prayer, but God is faithful and he really teach me how to live day by day through faith, by faith.
Speaker 2:So if someone wants to live more like Christ, I believe this may be a model to try to dedicate yourself to God and to understand that you are not belonging to you anymore.
Speaker 2:Actually, the most important teachings of our Lord Jesus, according to what evangelists noted you know, in every one from that four evangelic greetings Matthew, mark, luke and John.
Speaker 2:Many of the teachings of Jesus are missing in one or two or three, but there is one teaching that is present in all four books, and that is who wants to follow me has to deny himself to take a cross and follow me.
Speaker 2:So if you really want to follow Jesus, to live like Christ, I believe you can start from this point to understand that nothing belongs to you. You are not belonging to you, you are belonging to King Jesus and you renounce to your right to be rich, you renounce your right to be happy, you renounce to your right to be in comfort, you renounce to your right to have anything. Of course, god is amazing and he provides, and I renounce myself to this right, and God is keep providing. I have a beautiful house, I have a beautiful time, I have a beautiful car, but I'm ready not to have it and actually for a long time I didn't have it. So if you really want to have an authentic walk with Jesus. I believe you can start from this point denying yourself, renouncing to any right that you have, and then you will be amazed by how Jesus will use you in medical and listening ways.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. Thank you so so much. That has blessed me a lot. I know this will bless a lot of people listening too, for everyone as we wrap up. My prayer for you is that, just as Emmanuel saying, that you become a seeker, it's not just about acquiring knowledge or more wisdom, but it's about you know, having your heart actually transformed by God by only having a relationship with Him. I love the prayer that you shared with us of you know, lord, teach me real, authentic faith, and that is my prayer for all of you listening Amen. Yes, thank you so much, pastry, emmanuel, any last word? I know you just blessed us with so many beautiful words. Is there anything else that you want to share with us before we wrap up for today?
Speaker 2:No, I believe we are good. I have a lot of stories, but I believe there is no time if I wrap up some stories and I may not finish, so maybe another time we will see. But I'm so happy to be with you and so happy to share what God is doing into our lives, what is God doing in our churches, and I pray that you, in your region, in the States, to experience more and more Kingdom of God, to be visible in every city, in every region. This is what I pray for Romania, for States and for all over the places in the entire planet. God bless you all.
Speaker 1:Amen, thank you so much. Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has blessed you, share our podcast with a friend and if you have a money question, email me at Courtney and marglicoachinggroupcom. I'm Courtney Margley and this has been the heart of money.