Have you ever wondered how faith and work intertwine? Today's conversation with Mark Greaves, co-founder of Tithe Lending, centers on the profound impact of integrating faith with everyday life.
Have you ever wondered how faith and work intertwine? Today's conversation with Mark Greaves, co-founder of Tithe Lending, centers on the profound impact of integrating faith with everyday life.
I'm Courtney Markley and this is the Heart of Money. Talking about money can be really hard and uncomfortable, but it doesn't need to be. The problem is, we're taught to think about money in terms that are too much like science, with rules and regulations, and not enough like psychology, with emotions and nuance. Join me on my mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Heart of Money podcast. I'm your host, courtney Markley, and joining me today is Mark Greaves, the co-founder of Tide Lending. Welcome, mark.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you. So at the time that we're filming this, it is Monday morning and you got a smile on your face. I have the biggest cup of coffee in my house.
Speaker 2:I got a buckeye mug cup of coffee. Perfect, I'm gonna sit right here.
Speaker 1:Perfect, all right, so we are caffeinated, we just spent some time in prayer and we're ready to serve you guys. We're so glad that you're joining in on our conversation today. So if you do not know Mark yet, you really need to. He and I just met recently and his love for the Lord is so evident and he has an amazing testimony to what God has been doing in his life. So, mark, I'm gonna leave it open-ended. Can you tell our audience a bit about you and what God's been doing in your life in recent years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're leaving it very open-ended, so we could open up whatever can of worms.
Speaker 1:I am leaving it so open-ended, so you can go wherever you want.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, really the last year has been a pretty crazy ride and it's because we stepped into a journey and a dream that really got laid on my heart and Brian Ziemmer, my co-founder's heart, and we did not know it was gonna go. You and I have talked a little bit about just how, when you step into a dream that God has, it's usually way bigger than anything you imagined for yourself. We're experiencing that firsthand. So I'll give a 30-second background on where we came from and then I'll talk a little bit about this journey of tithe. But Brian and I have both been in the mortgage industry for decades, so I've been in for almost 20 years, he's been in for about 25. I said Ben, ian, it sounds like we're in prison. I was like no, it's been a good run. So most recently I was the president at lowercom. Brian was our COO. We kind of had back-end operational aspects of our business and I had anything front end, sales people and customer focus. So we had done some great things at lower. We had named a field downtown, lowercom field where the Columbus crew plays, gotten some great investments, companies still doing fantastic.
Speaker 2:Throughout that rise, my faith was also increasing like crazy. So throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, my wife and I, we started going to Roxy Church. Our faith world really exploded. We started serving and volunteering. We'd never really done that before. I started reading my Bible as a primary resource for not only my spiritual walk with God, but also I found it to be one of the best leadership books, one of the best sales books. It's just the best book ever written hands down. I just found myself with this deeper calling from God to infuse him in every aspect of my day, whether that was on Sunday at church, whether that was through volunteering throughout the week, whether that was while I was at work. I was like, how can I blend this to where this is now the primary focal point of my life? And I was having some difficulties figuring that out. Well, about a year ago, just about this time right now, brian and I left lower and we launched Tithe Lending.
Speaker 2:The premise is God has gifted us and equipped us, given us very specific talents and skills to run mortgage operations. We've gotten very good at it, we know how to scale it and we know how to run an efficient business, but we wanted to do it for God this time. So, instead of starting out our plans of building a business for ourselves. Our mission statement is to honor God through our work and then to love our neighbor through generosity. Throughout that journey we've decided we were gonna use the biblical principle of tithing. And then we were just like, whoa, let's not reinvent the wheel, we're not super creative, we're just gonna call it that. And so we operate up that principle. We give 10% of our top line pre-tax pre-expense to the Tithe Foundation. Then we use that to go fuel nonprofits that are doing the hands and feet of Jesus' work around our city.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the short story of what Tithe Lending is. Really, what we found is that when you tie your heart to God, it doesn't really matter what industry you're in or what you're pursuing. You could be in full-time ministry where you could be doing what we're doing. We're in finance, it doesn't matter. He's gonna use that. He's gonna find a way to allow you to use your influence for his behalf and to attract more folks in to be followers of Jesus Christ, because you show them what that walk looks like just through secular business. So we can talk as much as you want about that, but it's been a fantastic journey over the last year.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, I love it. I love it, and one of the things that initially really compelled me to want to reach out and to meet you is exactly that mission that you have is to help people think differently about their work life and their influence, because a lot of times we separate those things. We say, okay, my faith life is over here, my work life is over here, and the two really don't get intermixed very much. So I love hearing about your story and it brings up some more questions. So first off, tell me what specifically, if you can remember what was going on during the pandemic. You said that your faith life just exploded. You started going to a new church. You were reading your Bible for the first time, or maybe in a long time. You started serving with your wife and your family. What happened Cause it doesn't just you know hit you. Something had to happen, right.
Speaker 2:Well, it did for me, so it was interesting. So we grew up Catholic. My wife and I went to Catholic schools all the way through. Our sons actually still go to Catholic school today. But I saw it as religion. I didn't see it as a relationship with Jesus. That's just the way I saw my Christian faith. It was go there on Sunday and it was a class I took in school and it's kind of where I put an end to it. That was my fall. It wasn't because that was what Catholicism brought on me. That's just the way that I was seeing it.
Speaker 2:Sure, now it was during COVID. I was like all right, I can't watch Catholic Mass on TV. I was too bored. So we turned on Rock City and I'm not kidding, it was the first time we watched it. I feel like the Holy Spirit entered Pastor Chad's mouth. It came through my TV, like directly into my heart, and just grabbed ahold of it and it was in that moment. I literally was sitting on my couch in my living room and I was like what have I been doing? I know this. I know Jesus died for me, I know where I'm going to spend eternity and I know that I'm only going to be here for a little while longer on earth, but I've been somehow denying this biggest aspect of the knowledge that I have. I've been putting it down here on the shelf and letting the kid like dust. So at that point I was just like, well, that's pretty dumb. So I was like what? So it was in that moment that was March of 2020.
Speaker 2:My whole life changed, the way that I saw the world changed. I've been a big believer in pursuing performance. It's part of the reason why we'd achieved so much, whether it was in sports or whether it was younger or whether it was in business. As an adult, I was always in this achievement mode. I was reading books on sports, performance, business leadership stuff, stoicism, military tactics I mean it didn't matter. I wanted to run the best teams and do the most sales. But my Bible had just sat there. So that was when I started reading it and the word of God was just like reaching into my soul. Like every morning I was. I couldn't get enough of it. I think I listened to every single recorded message that Rock City had. So for the next two weeks I listened to hundreds of sermons.
Speaker 2:I started just figuring I gotta go serve, I gotta go do stuff for other people. I need to go do what Jesus did, but it was the pandemic so there was hardly any options available to me. So some stuff that was available I did. I went and got certified to be a hospice volunteer through Viocuest and started doing stuff with people on their deathbeds up at the Bloober in Marysville. I wrote 100 letters to prisoners in 100 days in random prisons that I didn't even know I just was sending them to random prisoners. I was like what can I do to go influence people for Christ? Because for the first time in my life I had a real thirst to do that.
Speaker 2:So then, after kind of things opened up and I was able to start serving, that's when we started doing things with the homeless through the Columbus Dream Center. We jumped in through our church instead of doing everything we could that way and I started to feel that feeling that you get when you give freely of yourself and it's irreplaceable. There's no paycheck or promotion or award I'd ever receive. That felt anything like the feeling of getting in your car after you've served somebody who needed it most.
Speaker 2:And I got addicted to that feeling of what it feels like to freely give and that's why it says over and over in the Bible. I mean, it's like that is why we're called to. It is because the connects our heart to the heart of God. So, yeah, I got addicted to serving the Lord and it was the best feeling I'd ever had in my life and that's why I was like I got to infuse this in everything I'm doing. So I don't know if I had to be a pastor or like work at a nonprofit or what it was, but throughout a period of discovery I realized I can do this right and what God planted me in and arguably I have just as much or even more influence over people in this lane. My pastor's got me for an hour a week on Sunday. I've got these employees for at least 40 hours a week, five days a week.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So think about the immense influence I can have for Jesus by using this way.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I love that insight too, because I think so many people maybe feel called or compelled to serve the Lord in their day to day life outside of church on Sundays, but they might say, like, well, I'm not a pastor, I'm not a nonprofit leader, you know something like that, so I guess that's just not for me, right? I remember a conversation I had with a young guy earlier this summer who said, like I thought all Christians were either pastors or preschool teachers. I didn't know you could be anything else, right? Yeah, and you're recognizing like, actually, god had a plan all along and he's equipped you with very specific skills and gifts in this area of influence where, like you said, you have just as much, if not more, influence because you are with people all day long, throughout the week.
Speaker 2:That's right. One of the things I found that's been interesting is like pastors get to preach and then walk off the stage, so there's no pushback or there's no rebuttal. I mean there could be on line or in emails. They receive everything.
Speaker 2:Sure emails later, but I feel like why God needs those of us that are in the marketplace and in other lanes to really step up and be examples for Jesus is because that's where the conversations are had. That's where the daily water cooler conversations are had of how do you walk this out, how do you find time for service, how do you not prioritize business when you're under the gun and you're working overtime and then you barely have time to even see your kids? Like how do you incorporate your faith into your life? It's difficult, but that's where a lot of those conversations happen.
Speaker 2:So, if we can be a light for Christ and show people, hey, this is what it looks like to truly live it out in the everyday. That's where I feel like the attractiveness comes in. So I feel like the Holy Spirit can reach us through our pastors. On Sunday, it's a great place to go get wisdom and learning and application, but to see it in action is different. So I feel like the more of us that can step up and show people this is what it looks like in a practical sense, living it out day to day in the world that's where we can draw even more people in.
Speaker 1:Hmm, Amen, and that's what it's meant to be right. It was never meant to be this thing that ends at, you know, 11 am on Sundays. It's that thing that just catapults into the week. That's right. So tell me, I'm really curious. You were the president of this very, very successful mortgage lending company and then there was some tension that started to happen as your faith grew. Yeah, what was that tension?
Speaker 2:I feel like God put me through multiple different tests along the way that I needed to pass on order to really step into this. Even look back at when Joseph got his dream of what he was going to do in Egypt, he was a teenager. He didn't realize that until he was in his 30s. A lot of times I feel like God plants this dream. So I had this dream planted really a year or more before I left lower.
Speaker 2:I was like I wanted to incorporate my faith into my work. I was struggling to do so, but I hadn't laid a lot of things down. I hadn't surrendered to God yet, so I still was after possessions. I still liked my paychecks, a lot of the things that were in my life prior I hadn't let go of. So I hadn't surrendered my income to God, yet I hadn't surrendered my assets to God yet I hadn't surrendered my reputation to God yet. There was a lot of those things that I needed to get over, and some of them were pride-based, some of them were comfort and world-material-based. So I feel like a lot of the things that I was feeling I needed to get over and be able to lay down at the feet of Jesus before God would really take this dream and let it run. Those were very, very difficult things because I was about ready to start a company that has a pretty Christian context and undertone to it.
Speaker 1:Yes, not even an undertone. I would say it's never laid an undertone.
Speaker 2:It's not on top.
Speaker 1:It's like right in your face yeah.
Speaker 2:The thoughts become like all right, what are all my friends going to think? What are my family members going to think? What are all the people that I know that are in business going to think? What are the Christians that maybe are too afraid, that I think will be supportive and won't? What are they going to think? I mean, you start going through all these what-ifs and all these doubt creeps in and then you're thinking okay, well, I'm leaving this very stable, secure thing that I've built to go start a mortgage lender in 2023, the worst statistical year to start a mortgage lender since we've been alive. Yeah, I'm like well, that's going to be very difficult because now my whole income is going to change and assets that I have been able to accumulate over time by being successful in my career are going to have to be sold and things are going to have to be rearranged.
Speaker 2:So I feel like a lot of times, when God plants these dreams in our heart and we have this walk to get there, to where they start to be realized, there's going to be some risk involved. Seemingly, there's going to be fear, there's going to be doubt. These are all just stepping stones to faith. These are not the opposite of faith. These are things that need to be conquered in order to see God's faithfulness in your life, and he knows that Now. That's why I think so few of us take the steps. But over and over again in the Bible and then right now in practical reality, we see God's faithfulness playing out for those who are willing to have faith in him.
Speaker 2:But we had talked like even David had to pick up the rock. Like even though he knew that he was fighting the battle for the living God and he had full confidence in God's protection, God didn't go pick up the rock and throw it at Goliath for him. Like, at some point you got to take the step. But I feel like, if the calling is big enough and the dream doesn't go away and you're truly in prayer and you're processing it and you're feeling that tug of the Holy Spirit, at some point it's like what am I going to do?
Speaker 2:Am I going to just live the next three, four decades on earth and never see what God's potential was for me? That, to me, just became like I couldn't live with that option. I could no longer live with that option. So the temporary things that I'm sure to leave behind one day when I'm dead became less material than what God's plan was for my life. I had to go see if that calling was real and so far we've experienced his faithfulness 10 times over. Back to us for taking that initial step of faith.
Speaker 1:That is quite amazing. It really is. And what I love about your story is that you did take that first step of faith right in active obedience. So God is calling you to leave again. Leave your very lucrative, very comfortable career, yes.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Where you probably never had to think about money for a day in your life, right, I'm guessing? And he's like yeah, I want you to leave that. You haven't mentioned it yet. I know this. I think you're okay if I share this. You sold your second home, yes, yep, tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sold that. Some investments, investment properties, yeah. So we had accumulated things that we're trying to fill an unfillable hole. So when there's a rise in your career or if you're doing something that's pressure-packed, and that pressure could be just because of your dollar amounts that you're working with, it could be the number of people that are relying on you or that are affected by your decisions. Who knows, it could be because it's out in the public eye. There's a lot of things that add pressure and stress. So I feel like what I was doing is pretty typical with the world we tell you to do is like, hey, the way that you cope with those things is you either numb it or you go try to find something that's going to ease the burden for a little while. So I had a great place down in Hocking Hills. I had 40 acres, I had my tractor, I could just go out there and detach from the world. That was fantastic.
Speaker 2:You start trying to fill it with investments and more money and what's cool is you start seeing numbers going up, or you start to see numbers hitting your account or you start to see net worth go up, but it's only fun for a second, because you're more than meeting your bills. And you've got. What do you need more? You've got a cool car. You've got cool clothes, you've got a good job. You've got a nice house. The numbers going up on a screen, they look good for like 10 seconds. And then what? You forget about them. You still go home to your same problems. You still go to work with the same pressure. None of it's relieved. The pressure relief valve has never fully turned on, so you're just constantly looking for the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. What we experienced was, as we continued to get the next thing over and over and over again, consistently, there was nothing at the top of those mountains. You look around and they were empty every time.
Speaker 2:And it was like, well, what am I doing this for? I feel like that's the common question that everyone comes down to is like who am I? What am I doing this for? Who am I doing this for? I was like, well, who am I? I don't even know anymore. I'm just like this collection of achievements is really what I became. And then, what am I doing this for? I was like, well, what is my mission? Like we're just building and building and building and building.
Speaker 2:The only reason was just to get higher numbers, more output. And I was like, well, more output, just more income. But then it also came with more stuff, more stress, more pressure, more things to ensure, protect, take care of. And then the who am I doing this for? This is the hard part. This is like a really big pride swallow. I was like, man, I'm actually not even doing it for me. I'm doing this for what I think people will see me as. It's like, how pathetic was that?
Speaker 2:The idea in my head was that someone else looking at who is Mark Grieves and what is Mark Grieves accomplishing. I wanted them to think a certain thing of me, but then over time, you realized what he's thinking about you Like. Nobody's thinking about you, like no one's looking at you all the time. It's like, wow, all this is just. It was pretty empty. So when we decided to flip that and give it all to God, yes, I had to sell some of those things and it seems like a big sacrifice. Guess what it wasn't, it wasn't. I'm free of it. I'm free of all the things that were weighing me down. Yes, I had all these things, but I had all these obligations because of these. Things Trimmed my budget down and made it simpler. I simplified my life, still got an awesome place to live. My kids still go to great schools, I still drive good cars, still eat great food. I mean, it wasn't like my life completely upended, but it did compared to what it was.
Speaker 2:But now, who am I doing this for? I'm not doing it for like some false perception of what I want the public to see me as. I'm doing it for God, the only one that really actually matters. And because I'm doing it for him, I don't have to see it through these temporary eyes anymore. I don't have to look at things the way I looked at him before. I get to look at him through his lens. I get to see people through his lens. I get to see the investments I make with my business and my personal wealth or income through his eyes.
Speaker 2:I get to get returns for the kingdom that are eternal and last forever, instead of these temporary returns that I already described only look cool on paper for a second and then it's like all right, moving on to the next thing. Well, like no, I'm not moving on to the next thing. Every little eternal return I get, every person I help the least of these Jesus says we do it directly for him Every person I influence for Christ, who will then be in heaven with me for eternity Every little thing that we do this way through our business. Now I know who I'm doing it for, I know what I'm doing it for. I know who I am through it. It's so much more fulfilling. I walk lighter. I'm genuinely filled with joy doing it all week long, even when it's difficult. So it's been a complete transformation from one to the other. I would highly recommend it to anybody.
Speaker 1:Your joy is contagious. I will tell you that much. It really is contagious. And as you're sharing these things and you're saying, yeah, I sold this and I sold that it was not a big deal because now I'm making kingdom investments, like I feel that, yeah, I absolutely feel that, okay, this is something that is truly happening in your life, that God is working in your life, and not just something that we're talking about, right, no, it can be very, very easy to just sit back and talk theology and talk about all these things of what the Bible says to be good and true and what will really give you joy, but it's a whole nother thing to actually take that first step of that simple obedience and then to move forward.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, let me tell you this the reason I talk about it and if you kept this by just going for two hours, I'd probably be super damp by the end of it. So the reason that I'm able to talk about it and I have so much joy pouring out, it's exactly what you said when we first started this. I remember literally saying to my partner, Brian, I don't want to go be hands and feet, I just want to provide the fuel for the kingdom, and that was the dumbest statement I ever made. Now I hear God like all the time being like remember when you said that. Remember when you said that I'm going to smack you up.
Speaker 2:Because the best thing about our business is we've made it a practice of our business with our team to go be in the facilities that we're helping to fund with our time every single week. So we volunteer together or as like many teams, all week long. So tomorrow we're at Hope Center. We're doing the homeless dinner service. I'll be down at Dream Center doing homeless breakfast. We dedicate hours of our week to be in these facilities because what happens is when you see the people that you're influencing through it, now I know like, yes, our money is going into these places and we're providing fuel for some of these great things that are happening. But now, when I can actually see the people that are being helped and I can literally prepare the meals and I can lay hands on them and I can pray and I can befriend them, I can give them something. Anybody can give them food, but giving them true fellowship in Christ and real hope, that's a whole different thing.
Speaker 2:But when I'm hands on with the people now, I go back into my business and all week long I know exactly why I'm doing it. There's no questions anymore. That's what happens to our team. That's when the heart change happens. So anybody can be calculated and we can give money and we can look at P&Ls and we can meet needs and we can set budgets. We can do all those types of things. I go try to help nonprofits through our business, but you're not going to get any real heart change unless your butt's in there. So, like what we always say is like where your treasure is, your heart will be also. But we got to get our butt in there too. That's what we that's right I love that.
Speaker 2:By doing that. That is what gets to your heart and that's really what Jesus wants. Like Jesus doesn't need tithes money, god doesn't need our money. Like we know that. Like this is all His anyway, he has no use for it. You can do whatever he wants, but he wants our heart. So when we tithe through our business, it's because what tithing is is first roots. It means that we put God first in our business. So he gets to have like the first seat at the table through our business because we tithe and basically what he's told us is it's not just your money, I want your heart, so go get into these facilities. At the same time. So if we put action behind everything that we do and it's the driving force behind all of its success, Hmm.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so good. It reminds me of the scripture that Paul is talking about, where I'm paraphrasing at this point. But he says you know, if I've given everything that I have to the poor, but I have not loved, then I have nothing Right. And this is essentially what you're saying. Now. That's not enough to simply write them a check. The money's not the issue, but God calls us to partner with him and do any things, because he wants our proximity right. He wants us to be with the people that he's calling us to serve. So I love that, and a couple of things.
Speaker 1:I have some questions for you, but before we move on, I want to highlight a few things from your story again real quick, in case they're a little subtle. So in case our listeners missed it, okay. First of all, mark is again just reiterating, in case you've never heard this before which I'm being sarcastic because I know we've all heard this and many times more money is not going to make you happier, and I heard this a while ago and I think it's so true. Where, especially, I think men have this more than women.
Speaker 1:I could be wrong, but we want to have the fancy sports car because you're like oh, I want everyone to see me in this sports car and think I'm so cool. Whatever it is, right? I heard this the other day and they basically said no one's thinking, man, that guy in that sports car is so cool. What they're thinking is I want to be in that sports car because then everyone would think I'm cool. And you know, it's the same thing, right? No one's actually paying attention to who's in the car. We all just want to be that person, right? It's so funny.
Speaker 2:Well, or it's worse. I know a lot of people when they look at it, when they look at a guy that's in like a really, really expensive sports car, they're like I wonder what insecurity he's covering up with that sports car.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I mean that's as a counselor. That's where my mind goes to.
Speaker 2:It happens all the time. People try to cover everything up with possessions.
Speaker 1:It's yes, it's true, it's true and it's a natural thing, right? We all are searching, and what we have to recognize is what we give our attention to. That's where our heart's going to be right. That's the whole start of discipleship and devotion is. What am I paying attention to? And what I can pinpoint in listening to your story is that as your heart got closer to God, your attention started going to the things that he wants our attention in. Right, You're spending time with the Lord. You know everything that has happened came first from that place, right, but then you're going out and you're being the hands and feet. Regardless of what you said at first, you're being the hands and feet.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's okay.
Speaker 1:Hey, it's okay, right? What I think is really genuine about it is you know, you made that comment even after I'm assuming, even after you sold your things and you created Thai London, and so you're already committed to doing this, and yet you're still growing and you're still going to say goofy things and God's still working in you, right?
Speaker 2:The reason I said it initially is because I felt like the undertaking of like getting out there was going to be way harder than it was to find places to serve and be organized through it and I was like I want this business to be on mission for God, providing as much fuel as possible, and I don't want it distracted. Like you've mentioned attention a couple of times and we always talk about the opportunity cost of our attention. Everybody always thinks about opportunity cost as a cost benefit analysis of where to put investment dollars, but not like your attention. The opportunity cost of where your attention goes. It literally drives everything in your whole life. So at first I thought that if our attention went towards physical boots on the ground service, it would distract us from the mission of being a giving business. I was just completely wrong. It actually amps us up and it actually adds more fuel to the business because we know where the business is going. In hindsight I'm like how was I so short-sighted to not see that? But now I do.
Speaker 1:Oh, but now you do Exactly.
Speaker 2:God teaches you along the way.
Speaker 1:Exactly If we can humble ourselves right and just say all right, lord, here I am, what do you want me to do, like, what do you have for me? Where do you want me to be? It's amazing because I find that those are the type of prayers that he loves to answer right, 100%, when we just come with an open hand. So that is just truly amazing. We're going down the road now of where your attention is, and before we got onto this call, we happened to be talking about sports. Right, we live in Columbus, ohio, the Ohio State University. Right, we're talking about sports. Tell me some of the things that maybe have distracted you in the past or that you see distracting other Christians from really starting to integrate their faith into every area of their life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an interesting question. My wife and I both played sports at Ohio State. I played the manliest sport available to me of men's volleyball, so I always tell people that.
Speaker 1:We love men's volleyball in my house. I will tell you.
Speaker 2:Danielle was pretty nasty. She played on the women's team. She's top five on a lot of the career statistics at the school. She was really really good.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Yeah, we both played sports growing up, traveled teams, played for our schools. I mean, I remember as a teenager most of my weekends were spent with my dad in hotels and other cities playing sports, whether it was basketball, volleyball, same thing with my wife and actually same thing with all of our siblings and it was great. We loved it. I wouldn't take any of that back. It's what gave us our competitive nature. It's what taught us how to work with other people, and we're you weren't the only one.
Speaker 2:I mean, volleyball is a team sport so I couldn't do it by myself. Everybody has to like be able to pull their weight and there's a certain art in the leading things like that. So I think that a lot of my success in business and leading a family and everything else has been learned by being on the court. So I wouldn't take that back. But I will say that what I would do differently was I would have made sure that my attention was still focused on my faith in Jesus, and having God is like the center focal point of my life. At that point I wasn't. Center focal point of my life was winning sports games and getting recognition through that, and we see that now I feel like there's such an immense pressure on families and kids to achieve earlier and earlier and earlier, because now that I have kids that are nine and seven, I just see it as even more extreme than when I was a kid. It's like we got to get them started earlier in the travel teams. We got to get them started earlier into playing 18 gazillion sports on the weekends, and if it happens to coincide with church, then we're not going to church. You just see it play out all around you in real time, and had I not had my moment in 2020 where the Holy Spirit kind of took hold of my life, I might be in that scenario.
Speaker 2:So I don't fault people for that. It's a product of our culture and a culture is a way of life. What we've seen happen in America is our culture has consistently drifted from faith and drifted more into you. Name it. Whatever it is you wanted to pick, whether it's politics or entertainment, sports in general we've just drifted from faith. So we're not doing that in our family. We're actively trying to make God the centerpiece of our family and the centerpiece of our kids' lives and making sure that they know like our ultimate priority is to live a life well lived for Jesus, to be children of God, to go influence others, to be true followers of Jesus Christ, and one of things we do is we prioritize him. So when we know that church is happening, we're not going to not go and we're going to go to a soccer game. We're just not doing that.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's, since the message that we want to our kids you know the opportunity, cost of attention is a real thing. It's where you're pouring your time into and where you're pouring your focus. Your kids are picking up on that. They always say that more is caught than taught, and that's definitely true.
Speaker 2:Like how many times can I sit and really think right now about conversations my dad had with me or my mom had with me? I remember word for word and I'm like that was just such an impactful conversation. I can't remember any, but I can remember their habits and their routines. I can tell you right now exactly what my dad would do every day when he got home from work. You have the same routine. I can tell you the same routine before we went out the door. We had same routines on certain days of the week. I can tell you exactly what our actions were. So it's like what do we want to show our kids? What do we really want to like show them through our actions and our weekly and our daily routines? How active are we in our faith versus how active are we in the other hobbies and things that we pursue? So it's a challenge. It's a hard thing to hear, especially if you're not prioritizing your faith. It's a really hard thing to hear.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And we had to swallow that because we weren't doing it either, and we had to take a hard look at what do we really teach in our kids and what do we want them to grow up with If they're an adult. What's the one takeaway that we want? We want their habits, routines and their focal point to be Jesus and have instilled that in them and have them be totally in love with that and love Jesus and love God and know that that love is reciprocal and so strong they can't even understand it. We want them to know that without the shadow of a doubt. Anything else I accomplish is just gravy.
Speaker 1:That's really beautiful and the intentionality is really shining through here of you're already thinking ahead of okay, one day our kids are going to be adults, lord willing. And what are they going to do when they're out on their own? What's the one thing if they don't take away anything else from us? Right? What's the one thing that we want them to take away? And again, it's not what we're going to say, but it's what we're going to do, right?
Speaker 2:Yep, it's 100%. As you're sitting here talking, I'm remembering my dad's after work routine. He was a pharmacist, so every day it was like come home, take off it. Literally the same exact thing take off his pharmacy, smock, lay it on the table. He'd always would take out his wallet. Which you ever watched Seinfeld and saw George Costanza's wallet?
Speaker 2:that was like yeah, it was just that was like my dad's wallet this three inch thick wall how do you even sit on that thing? And then he would get his change out of the other. I always felt like it was like a clown, you know, when they just keep pulling stuff out of their pocket. My dad always had so much stuff in his pockets, so the first thing he would do is take off his pharmacy smock and then unload his pockets and we would all just be amazed at how much stuff was there. I'll never forget that stuff.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, you know if you would have come home every day and, like the first thing you said was like hey guys, let's do a Bible study. I would probably remember that too. That's not realistic, but it's just interesting to see, like hey, if somehow it was like hey, every night, before we went to bed, we read the Bible. I remember that, Right. I wouldn't remember all these insights on it, but I remember doing it.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely, it is just interesting. So, you know, I have two toddlers at home and so I try to be very aware of what I'm saying, but your habits still come through, right? And so every now and then I'll get this little mirror of myself and I'll go oh, I do do that, okay. Oh yeah, you know where my two year old she's so sassy, she's so sassy, and every now and then she'll just give me the biggest, I like huh, and roll her eyes and I'm like, hmm, all right, where has she maybe seen that before?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure, yeah, so like all right, there's, there's a little beer. I'm like maybe you don't do it that often, but they still pick up on those kinds of things. Right, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when they start doing the stuff that you don't like, usually what stinks about it is it's learned from you and it's like oh yeah, oh yeah, geez, what am I doing? Yeah, it is a really raising kids as a humbling experience, isn't it?
Speaker 1:very humbling, yeah, very humbling. Yes, especially like you said. You're at least what I have found to be true. I don't know if it's true for everyone else, but the things that I find most challenging in my children are the things that they're most like me, especially, you know, my daughter. She's so strong-willed and so stubborn and I'm like, why can't you just do one thing? You know that I ask you to. And I'm like, oh, I'm sure that's so. God, you know, I'm sure he's up there saying that's to be. Sometimes, when I'm just like, so strong-willed and stubborn, you know, if, like, come on, like, I know it's best for you, just trust me, you know, and I'm just like, now I'm going to do my own thing because I think this is better.
Speaker 2:Well, in my house I think my wife believes that, like all the things that my boys do, that that we don't like is all from me, and then yes, all the things that we love about them. They got from her. That's pretty much how that goes.
Speaker 1:That's fair. We'll give her that. You know she might be right. So it's all right, there's balance. Right, there's balance. It's amazing there really is. But, yes, kids are very humbling, they're very humbling.
Speaker 1:So tell me, mark, I'm curious, as we're starting to wrap up for today, at one point in your journey, right, you had to go from knowing what was true about Christ, about the Bible. Right, like you said, you went to Catholic Church. You knew all the things. It wasn't a lack of information that was an issue, but it was the missing obedience. Right, that was really the key piece that was missing.
Speaker 1:So for our listeners who might be saying you know, I know what I should be doing, but I don't feel any closer to God, right, maybe I'm going to church every Sunday, I know all the right things, but I haven't taken that simple act of obedience right when maybe they are, you know, kind of sitting in that tension, what you mentioned earlier of, well, I could just live the next 30, 40 years, am I like wondering what would happen if I took the next step of faith and obedience in Christ? Or I could just stay comfortable? You know, speak to the person who's in that tension right now of feel like I'm missing it. I don't feel like the life that Jesus offers is really what they say. It is because I'm not experiencing it myself and I know all the right things you know. Speak to that person for me.
Speaker 2:So a couple of like practical things to do there that I've found to be true over the last few years, and if I look back on even the past, it would have been true then if I was thinking this way.
Speaker 2:So typically like, if you want to experience the life that Jesus calls you to do, you already have it at your fingertips. You just haven't recognized that. Your awareness of it is just low, and I feel like that's what happens a lot of times, is we're looking for God to move, forgot to do something, and God's already set the whole stage for you. It's just your awareness hasn't clicked in yet. So, like, obedient to what? So here's how you solve that problem is like okay, take a spiritual gifts test. If you just Google spiritual gifts test, there's like three ones that come up. I didn't even know what the spiritual gifts were four years ago. I couldn't even have named one. I was like what is it? I didn't know leadership was a spiritual gift, it is, yeah. I didn't know giving was a spiritual gift it is. I didn't know hospitality or administration were spiritual gifts. I had no idea. I thought what it would like prophecy, and that is one. But I would have thought like, oh, I'm not a prophet, I'm not a preacher, so what am I supposed to do? Like on, a, wisdom is a spiritual gift. Faith is a spiritual gift. There's all these spiritual gifts that I thought were spiritual gifts. But how does hospitality and administration, or leadership and giving, how do these things fit in? How does exhortation what does that word even mean? But how is it a spiritual gift?
Speaker 2:So first, like, just hone in on what has God already given you, because he's already given you things. So like, what are the gifts that God has given you that are not material, that are inside you, that are planted in you, that the Holy Spirit is just waiting to use? Go get clarity on what they are. Then what I would do is look around at your present situation and think, ok, well, if God knew me before I was in my mother's womb and he knows all my days. Just go read Psalm 139. Take your spiritual gift test. Go read Psalm 139 and realize like God knows everything about me Every day that I'm going to live. He knows exactly specifically where I am right now. He has me on this path in front of the people that I have influence over, the job that I do, the space I'm in the city, I live in the house and the neighborhood where I'm at. Like he knows your environment, he created it.
Speaker 2:So like, ok, this is what you gave me and this is where you have me, and then just start looking for OK, I'm just going to pray over this situation, what I have at my disposal through you, through the Holy Spirit and where you have me right now, and what I'm going to ask you to do, jesus, is just reveal my next steps, not the entire path. It says in Psalms like you're a lamp for my feet, life for my path. Right, like all right, I'm just going to look for, like a little, the lamp down at my feet when I look down and try to see what is step one or step two on how I can start stepping into your plan for me. So, what have you gave me and who do I have around me in my direct environment? How do I go use that and just start using that? Because I think what a lot of us want to do is we want to get like smashed with this giant dream and this huge epiphany and for, like, this giant road to just open up and just basically walk us down it. That's not how it's going to go, but he's already done it. He's already done it. Your awareness of it is just too low. So, like go through some real practical steps to heighten your awareness of how he's already using you and how he's already working in your life, and just asking to reveal the next steps. So I wish I would have done that way way, way earlier, because that's what we do now all the time.
Speaker 2:So like, we're hiring at Tide's, just as a practical example. Like all right, god, I'm in the mortgage business in Columbus Ohio and it's difficult. This is one of the most demand heavy supply shrunk markets in the country is a tough environment. Columbus Ohio. Who do you want in this environment? Like, who do you want? Just like, put them in front of me. So, brian and I pray bring the right people to Tide's, the people that we should be interviewing and everything else. You know what happens. The next week. I get hit up on LinkedIn from some real good, experienced veterans in the industry that are loving our mission and they want to learn more about it. 10 days later, they're hired. They're at Tide's. It's like stuff like that. It's like all right. I love it.
Speaker 2:I'm not asking God to make me the number one mortgage lender in our city or our state. I'm not asking them to make us million dollar profitable in the first year. I'm just saying show me the next hire. Who's the next person that you want to bring into this mission to have influence with us in this market? The very next person, whoever that is, and just praying over that and being consistent with that, and he's going to continue to show you, he's going to put it in front of you. It's just are you praying for the right things and is your awareness high enough of them? I think that's two practical steps. Spiritual gifts. Then really take a hard look at your current environment.
Speaker 1:I love those two things because it's something simple enough we can all understand, it's feasible and everyone can do it. Today, right? I've taken many a spiritual gift test. I think they're so fun. You get the same thing. Yes, oh yes, almost always.
Speaker 2:What are they?
Speaker 1:Well I was just going to say also, throughout my growth in the Lord, I feel like new ones have kind of come to the surface as I start to really embrace the gifts that God's given me. So exhortation is actually one of my spiritual gifts, so I love how you're like what even is that? And leadership and administration those are my three. But I know I've taken those tests years ago and exhortation and leadership probably weren't on there and it was more of how I was viewing myself and not really giving credit where credit was due and letting God use me the way that he really made me to be.
Speaker 1:So if you haven't taken a spiritual gifting test in a while, listeners, I would encourage you to do so, and as you start kind of putting yourself out there more and really using your voice or whatever that looks like, god is going to give you more of it, which is really cool. These are gifts to be cultivated and even though they may come easily and naturally, it's still something that we can grow in, and so that's what I've seen in myself is those leadership skills and that exhortation. It started out super, super small, to the point where I was like I don't think that's me, I don't know. And then, really leaning into a few certain areas where God has called me, to now, I can very boldly say like, yep, this is where God has me and I'm leaning in and I'm growing. So, yes, what are yours? You said leadership.
Speaker 2:Leadership giving exhortation honestly is one of them Perfect but faith keeps ranking higher and higher on there and it's exactly what you just said.
Speaker 2:It's because I've more boldly now stepped into faith when I know that it's required, especially if I feel like the Holy Spirit has lead me down a particular path and I probably was not there before, but I do have faith that God, if he's pulling me that direction, he's either going to fall flat I'm going to know real quick it's a closed door or it's him and he's going to be faithful 10 fold back the other way and we're going to go do more together than I could have ever done on my own. Because of what has happened with Tithe in year one and how our brand has resonated and how it's expanded and the different partnerships and things that have come into play that I would not even have dreamed possible, I already know that. I know that God's dream is bigger than my dream. So if I do feel his tug at this point, I'm pretty ready to go say, ok, let's go see if that's you God, and take that step, because any doubt or any fear that I've got is usually just manmade.
Speaker 1:Amen to that.
Speaker 2:So I'm quicker to take my step of faith these days than I've ever been in my life. So that's starting to rank higher for me, which wouldn't have a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome. I love that. So, see, we can still grow those spiritual gifts. At the same time, if we're not using them, they can start to diminish too, right? So I love this, just bringing awareness to what your spiritual gifts are and leaning into them. And I also love what you said of a lot of times we're waiting to take this big leap of faith that we think is going to be just this huge, momentous moment right, that climactic last scene of the movie right, where, no, you're the hero and you're showing up and you're doing this big thing and, honestly, that's not normally at all, but it looks like Right.
Speaker 1:No, if you go back and read through the New Testament, anytime, god called one of the disciples. It was just a like put down what you're doing and come, follow me. Right, like just come. And that took a big, bold step of obedience right, which increased their faith. I'm even thinking of the widow and the two mites and how she came and she dropped those two coins into the offering. I doubt she was walking in feeling like Rocky about to enter, but thinking about the disciples.
Speaker 2:even so, he didn't say, hey, go out two by two and just go start healing people. It was like, no, just come take a walk with me first.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:We talked about Joseph earlier. Like think about what happened to him. Like he has these big dreams, right? So he got these giant dreams and then he gets thrown into a pit. So then he's got to overcome that because, honestly, it was his own pride. He goes around bragging about his dreams to his brothers and stuff, right, true. But then he's got to overcome prison. He had to overcome a bunch of different things before God was ready for him to step into the reality of his dream. So I feel like, even if you do have a big dream that God's planted on your heart, he's going to ask you to take a small step first. He's always going to do that.
Speaker 2:If you have a big dream, do you have enough guts to take a small step? And it's not guts, it's faith. It's like do you actually believe him or not? That's really the question that it comes down to. It's like you know he's the God of the universe. He spoke all this stuff into existence. The only reason you're even here is because he imagined you. So do you believe that? And if you do take the small step, if you're not willing to take the small step, you got to go back and be like do I actually believe this, which then that's an even more gut-wrenching question. Yeah, because it's like wow, do I believe in the God that I proclaim to believe in? If I do, am I willing to take the small step of faith? It seems kind of wimpy not to, so you'll probably do it at that point if you're really thinking about it that hard.
Speaker 1:I love that, All right. So Mark Greaves says don't be wimpy, Just get your butt out there and take the small step right.
Speaker 2:Pretty much. Yeah, Don't be wimpy.
Speaker 1:I love that. Don't be wimpy, just go do it. But you're right. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people don't even get to that realization of recognizing that they've been called into something and that maybe they've fallen into complacency, or maybe they're just not looking for where God's calling them. They may not even recognize that they've really wandered off from. What I say I love is not actually what I love, because your actions are going to display truly what you love, right. So if you're living every day just striving for more money or just striving for more power, you fill in the blank. That shows where your heart is right. That shows where you love.
Speaker 2:The funny thing is, too, this could be anything. It doesn't need to be starting a company. Say your spiritual goes hospitality. It might be. Am I willing to invite my neighbors to a Bible study that I host?
Speaker 1:Right, it can be so small.
Speaker 2:Am I willing to do that? It's like these little things, like if it's knowledge or if it's wisdom. It's like, hey, am I willing to go offer myself up as a mentor and start bringing other folks along, depending on what it is. Are you willing to step into it and put some of your attention and focus there and put down the fear of being rejected and just start putting yourself out there for Christ with what he's given you? Where you're at, the first steps are usually not giant steps, but it gives you enough momentum to get out there and start feeling it a little bit and then, once you're in motion, you start to pick up a little steam.
Speaker 1:That's just right. As you're talking I'm thinking about. You know, we hear a lot of adopting childlike faith. We see this in the scriptures and you know I'm thinking of some of the heroes of the faith, like CT Stud. I don't know if you've heard of CT Stud in his story. No.
Speaker 1:Hang around with me long enough. You'll hear a lot about CT Stud. I'm kind of obsessed. But the really quick story. He was the first missionary to go into the heart of Africa and he planted hundreds of churches in the heart of Africa. This was before cars right, so he's literally walking in. The cool thing, actually, mark, he was very wealthy, he was a professional athlete and he left all of that behind. He sacrificed literally everything right To walk it, you know, or bike into Africa, like can you imagine.
Speaker 1:But that all started when you know he became a Christian. Nothing really changed at that point, you know, other than you know, maybe starting to go to church, things like that. And one day he came across an atheist pamphlet that said if Christianity were true, then Christians would stop at nothing but reaching people for Christ. And in that moment he decided to adopt a childlike faith. I meditate on this a lot. What does that mean? And then just last week I got like this perfect picture of what childlike faith looks like as I'm rocking my four-year-old son, putting him to bed.
Speaker 1:We've started to teach him to pray and I love his little prayers. They're hilarious and adorable and I always interject like one little thing of like, buddy, okay, let's pray for this too, right? And so one night you know, we had just read this really cute story of how to pray and the importance of praying for other people. I said, buddy, let's pray for all the little boys and girls in the city who don't know Jesus. And he said well, what do you mean? And I said, well, there's little boys and girls in our city who don't know about Jesus. And he goes well, that's not good. And I said I know. So I said let's pray about it so that you know they'll learn about Jesus. And he just goes well, mom, why don't we just go tell him about Jesus? And I'm like this is it?
Speaker 2:That's a great question actually, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I'm like this is childlike faith of just taking something and we're not overthinking it and we're not making it complicated, but in his you know perfect little four-year-old brain he's like people don't know about Jesus. Cool, let's go tell him about Jesus, like let's not make it harder than it needs to be mom, like let's just go do it, you know.
Speaker 2:There's conviction in that. You know it's like, wow, I know, I know what am I over-complicating right now in my current day that, like my kid would be like totally confused by probably rightly so right, but I could just declutter and just go cut through it and go do something about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. It's funny because I think kids a lot of times just see things in this like black and white of you know well, this is what the Bible says, so why don't we just go do it, like I mean, you just sit around and talk about it, you know? It makes me think. There's a gentleman that I know who. He says he doesn't like Bible study groups, but he started his own Bible doing group, so he'll read the Bible and then they'll actually go do it.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Right. So if it talks about loving your neighbor, yeah, so I'm like maybe we need to start a Bible doing group.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like it so much better.
Speaker 1:Isn't that so awesome. He's like anyone could just like study Jesus and you know. Basically, you know, you can learn everything. I kind of compare it to like celebrities, right? Like I can learn everything that there is to know about Tom Cruise. I'm just that was the first name that came to my mind. I'm like I can learn everything that there is to know about Tom Cruise, right, I can read all the biographies about his life, I can go to all of his movies. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't mean that I have a relationship with Tom Cruise, right, it's true, isn't that interesting?
Speaker 2:You might feel like you do.
Speaker 1:You might feel like, yeah, exactly, you probably do feel like you do at some point, right, like if we just think about these celebrities that we idolize and, you know, spend a lot of time researching or thinking about and that was basically what this gentleman was saying about Jesus of. Well, I can learn everything there is to know about Jesus. I can, like memorize everything that's ever been written by him, but that doesn't mean I have a relationship with him. So let's go do. Let's not study, but let's go do.
Speaker 2:That's true. That's very, very true and very, very good. Like I'm going to use that, I may not give you credit for that, I might just claim that as my own.
Speaker 1:Well, again, like it wasn't originally mine, so you can have it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll just keep passing this along Like hey, some guy. Yes, exactly. I love that. Though the Bible doing group is actually, I feel like we all need to incorporate it into our Bible study groups.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree.
Speaker 2:There's only so much talk that can be done Like we got to go do something about it.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the childlike faith is definitely something that I feel like I don't have yet necessarily, but I do have a bias for action when it comes to living my faith out. I think that kids have some way of even making it simpler than we do.
Speaker 1:They do.
Speaker 2:Like, the older we get, we lose our ability to make things simple. Yeah yeah, this has been convicting for me. This last little segment here is like making me rethink a bunch of things.
Speaker 1:Good, I love it. Well, good, We'll continue on with this another day, but I'm with you. That just said simple. Like Mom, why don't we just go tell them about Jesus? Yeah. It doesn't have to be that hard. He's also the same kid, by the way, who keeps reminding me to invite our new neighbor over for dinner, like every single night. Mom, have you invited the new neighbor over for dinner? No, okay, but I will. So kids are really great in this way.
Speaker 2:We knew it that soon.
Speaker 1:Yes, very soon. So, as we're wrapping up, mark, tell us real quick, you know one. I want to say again thank you so much for just sharing your time and just telling us about the testimony and just the amazing work that God is doing in you and through time lending. And I want to know what are you working on right now that has you excited, because you're obviously not easily excitable. I mean, you're pretty dry guy. No, I usually just hang around behind the scenes doing nothing.
Speaker 2:But one thing that's got me excited lately is we didn't know that this would happen, but our foundation that we had begun it's not running against other nonprofits, it's really just we want to provide fuel. We don't want to provide a parallel line to other nonprofits that are already out there. We want to find needs that exist, that are outside our current great nonprofits operating budgets, that they had the money or they had the item or they had the hire or whatever it is. It's deployed to the community immediately and the community would feel that impact. So we try to identify what those needs are and go provide fuel for that.
Speaker 2:The cool thing is other businesses have been joining in and we had no idea that other businesses would even want to join in. But it's a very, very simple, just action oriented. It's not another networking group, it's not a Chamber of Commerce type of a thing. This is literally once a month we serve up a nonprofit need to our business partners. We know exactly what amount it's going to take to fulfill that need. We know where it's going to go and we have a timeline for when we want to deploy it. We serve those calls to action up on a monthly basis, and if people feel compelled to give to that need they do. What we're trying to do is, I think we're up to 26 business partners Wow, and we just started this thing a few months ago.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:I want to get this thing up to hundreds in our city because just imagine a nonprofit has a need and it's 30 or $40,000 to go equip them. Sometimes, like I said, it's a hire, sometimes it's an actual tangible thing, but whatever it is we're equipping them with, the community immediately feels the output of that result. If we have 200 businesses in it, a $30,000 need is 150 bucks a business. So for very, very small increments we can go be being big needs on a monthly basis to our nonprofits who are being in the hands and feet of Jesus. The beautiful thing this is the best thing about it is then no one business gets to take credit. It isn't about ego.
Speaker 2:It's not about saying like, look at us and what we did. This would be the business body of Christ coming together to go meet the tangible needs of those being the hands and feet of Jesus when together, we do it. So, for small amounts of money on a monthly basis, we can be a part of some big things that are happening in our city and we're starting to get some traction with that. And I also feel like it's step one for a lot of our business. You know community who maybe want to use their business for Jesus. They want to have impact for the kingdom. They don't really know what to do. This is a very, very easy step one to this platform low commitment but high impact. So I'm pumped about that. I can't wait to keep growing that and see where it goes.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is so exciting. I know I have really enjoyed just kind of watching this unfold, as it's still I mean still very new.
Speaker 2:Yes, Very new.
Speaker 1:Yes, and just seeing how, when the whole idea of what we're going to tie off of our business income and we're going to put that out into the community to just meet needs, whatever, that could look like right, there's a lot of different things that it can look like. And then the idea of other businesses coming in and saying, oh, we want to partner with you, we want to do this too. And isn't it so cool how the more people who come in I don't know if the right word is easier, but kind of like just the easier the work is, because now it's a whole community, you know, and it really does look like the body of Christ coming together.
Speaker 2:What it starts to paint the picture of is if more businesses in our city and more entities in our city started to actively pursue Jesus in and through their business, what would the city transform it to? What would it look like? You know? I mean I know that, like, for Columbus is trying to do some things. I know there's the Christian business partnership. They're trying to do some things.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of like really good things going on and there's even more things that are getting started with traction. So that's what gets me excited is I feel like there's people just like me that are out there that are waking up and they're like I want to be an influence for Christ seven days a week, not just on the weekends, but where I'm awake at five days a week. 80% of the time I'm up is at my job and I want to start figuring out how I can incorporate my faith into my job and go be a light and an influence for Jesus around town. That's what gets me excited. It's like think about what we could do together. Think about what this place would look like. I mean it would all change. It would change for good. I mean it would be heaven on earth if we would all participate in this way. Yeah, be really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, oh, this is exciting. Thank you so, so much for sharing your heart, for reaching the community and really helping to change our thinking about the influence that we can have during the week at work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for having me. We appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yes, so tell me. We've talked about a lot of things today, Mark. If listeners walk away with one thing, what do you want them to walk away with?
Speaker 2:Oh, man, I would try to say, really try to figure out who God made you to be and where he put you. That little blurb that we did is, if you just figure those two things out, like, really, god, you created me, who did you create? And, secondarily, where do you have me right now? And that creates a lot of clarity over your mission, your vision, where you're going next, it really drives the purpose of your life, and just be willing to step into his plan for you because it's bigger than you could ever imagine on your own. So really just identify that Who'd you make, where do you got me and what's your vision for my life. And I'm going to go step into that with one step of faith. Just, whatever that first step is, identify and take the step of faith. You will not be sorry.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. I love this story so much. Folks listening. I think we have a preconceived notion that when Jesus calls us into something, it's going to be painful and it's going to. Our lives are going to change for the worse. I don't know why that is. I think it's a fear that we have that's not rooted in Christ, it's not rooted in truth, and what Mark is showing us here today is that there's so much joy, there's so much peace and contentment that comes when we let go of the things that we were trying to fill this void with and really cling to Christ. So that is my prayer for each of you listening today. I'm going to be praying for each one of you that we all get better examples of what that childlike faith looks like in our everyday life. Thank you again. So much, mark, and thank you for joining us on the Heart of Money.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has blessed you, share our podcast with a friend and if you have a money question, email me at Courtney and marglicoachinggroupcom. I'm Courtney Margley and this has been the Heart of Money.