Picture this: a life where your deepest desires for adventure and your spiritual calling coalesce into a rich tapestry of experiences that celebrate both wanderlust and faith. This episode takes you on that journey. Join our guest, Renee Rinehart, as she shares her story of becoming a global Christian, learning to walk by faith, and allowing God to use these experiences to form the Gospel Patrons movement.
It's an episode that promises to nourish your soul, ignite your generosity, and maybe even coax out a chuckle or two.
Picture this: a life where your deepest desires for adventure and your spiritual calling coalesce into a rich tapestry of experiences that celebrate both wanderlust and faith. This episode takes you on that journey. Join our guest, Renee Rinehart, as she shares her story of becoming a global Christian, learning to walk by faith, and allowing God to use these experiences to form the Gospel Patrons movement.
It's an episode that promises to nourish your soul, ignite your generosity, and maybe even coax out a chuckle or two.
I'm Courtney Markley, and this is the Heart of Money. Talking about money can be really hard and uncomfortable, but it doesn't need to be. The problem is, we're taught to think about money in terms that are too much like science, with rules and regulations, and not enough like psychology, with emotions and nuance. Join me on my mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Heart of Money podcast. I am your host, courtney Markley, and joining me today is Renee Reinhart. Welcome, renee.
Speaker 1:Thank you, courtney it's so good to be here with you, yes so I feel like our audience got a little sneak preview of who you are and what you're about. We ended our first season with an interview with your husband, john Reinhart, and I'm excited you get to be the first one to kick off our second season, so this is really great. We got Reinhart Bookends on our podcast which is awesome.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, yes yes, so you and John, you run Gospel patrons and you are the VP of fun. And before we dive in too much I know we got a lot of great things to talk about today I need to know what it's like to be the VP of fun. I really do. I need lessons from you.
Speaker 2:It's an aspirational title. Let's say that You're so cool.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think you're modest.
Speaker 2:Years ago we were visiting some friends and we got to go to their family business. They have a large family business and as we were going down the C-suite offices I noticed this door that the plaque read VP of fun and I look inside the office and there's balloons and there's just like feathers and there's like all kinds of things and it just looks like so much fun and I think my mouth hung open and I said how do you get that title? I want that someday. So my title now is more John, having a good laugh and being like you're in sort of this transition stage between finances, my background. I've done a lot of other things which you do in startups. So when you start anything, you get to play lots of roles.
Speaker 2:So I've done a lot of different things and I pulled back a little bit to say, okay, I can't keep doing all these things and I need to. And in fact I was facing burnout and feeling just kind of overwhelmed and feeling like the weight of all that needed to be done was on me and in fact I think I had a meltdown and was like I am glue. I don't want to be glue. Glue is terrible. I hold everything together, but glue is sticky and it stinks and like I don't want to be glue anymore, so I love it.
Speaker 2:Vp of fun was the answer of like okay, you don't have to be glue, you can be the VP of fun. And I think it more just helps me say how do I bring joy into whatever I'm leading, whatever I'm working on, whatever project I'm doing? Because I think God is a God of great joy who delights in his work, who delights in relationship, and so that title is just kind of pushing me to say I love fun. Let's try and have more joy, more delight, more fun in the things that we do.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it so much, and I have to ask how many balloons are in your office.
Speaker 2:Oh, none at the moment because we are still kind of in transition. We've lived on the road for four years and we are living in a house right now, but it's still a bit of unpacking because we've had, you know, all our belongings have been in storage, so we're sort of uncovering. You know, what are all the books? It's mostly books that we own, and where are the books?
Speaker 1:Oh good, yes, I love it. You know, to me books are more fun than balloons, so I'm going to give you that one. I'm going to give you that one.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give you the books man, hundreds and hundreds.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, I love it so much, although I would be tickled if one day you walk into your office and you know the kids and John have just covered in balloons. So you're going to have to text me a photo if that ever happens, because I'll be just tickled. I love it. I love it so much.
Speaker 2:I think Bob Goff is my balloon mentor. Yes, yes, the kids and I are reading Love Does and I feel like balloons keep popping up, but then it's like balloons in huge numbers, like a thousand balloons or 3,000 balloons.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, ok. So I know that you love Bob Goff and I know that you love Randy Alcord, so we did just become best friends. Perfect, ok, ok, all right, this is good. This is good. Tell me, I'm just now curious Do you read a lot with your kids? I know they're what? 13 and 14? Yes, and so they're able to have different conversations, different types of books that you're reading to your kids, versus the Dr Seuss books I'm reading to mine. But tell me, what does that look like to start discipling teenagers?
Speaker 2:We still read Dr Seuss sometimes. I love it. We do read a lot together. John and I both love books and I think John has titled it. It's just a natural impulse.
Speaker 2:But I feel like a childhood librarian that I'm cultivating a library, but then not always even like a physical library, but cultivating books all the time of what do I want to expose my kids to? What do I want them to grow in? And I don't see that. Just as through nonfiction, we do that a lot through really good novels and stories and picture books even. We have quite a broad collection of picture books. We really like art too.
Speaker 2:So I feel like good stories call to our hearts and speak to us about deep things of God's truth and God's beauty, even when it's not explicit, because all truth is God's truth. And so there's a sense that good authors cultivate that appetite for goodness, truth and beauty in us and help us to imagine a world beyond our own and a deeper experience of the world. So that has always been a really big deal for me and being a mom and it has been very exciting when they got to trying to think it was a few years ago I think part of it was this poll, I was feeling like I didn't get to read the books, the nonfiction or the biography that I wanted to read, and I just had this epiphany of like actually, I think they're old enough that even if we just did that like 15 minutes a day, I could read the books I want to read with them. And so we just started yes, yes, and they were a little like maybe they were 10 or something and we started reading. I don't know.
Speaker 2:We read Don't Give the Enemy a Seed at your Table, by Louie Giglio. I think that was one of the first ones that someone had just given it to me and I was like well, if I'm going to read this, it's going to have to be in the course of what I'm doing with the kids during the day, because I don't have other time. And so we just worked it through a little bit of time and sometimes that was challenging for them. But I think it's called them up and it has been very satisfying that we get to work through these different books and some of them we've chosen. We kind of alternate like a more serious book, a fun book, kind of working our way through different stuff. So it's a joy.
Speaker 1:Oh I love it. Yes, I love that you've worked this into just the normal daily activity with your family. I'm sure your kids get to just reap a lot of that value too.
Speaker 2:We were talking a little bit, courtney, about being global Christians, and I think books are one way that we do that. As a family, we read both historical biographies of people around the world, but we also seek to read books Like right now we're reading a book by Bacchelle Schenco, who is the head of Church Planning at Crue. I think it's GCS, sex or something global no, yeah, global church strategies or multiplication or something like that, but it's Bacchelle. Bacchelle was born in Ethiopia and it's his story of his family coming to faith and his leadership, growth throughout working in different countries in Africa and what God's done in his life.
Speaker 2:So I try to bring in things like that, where we're growing as a family, as global Christians, learning from other Christians around the globe in their life experiences, their leadership, whatever it is. And then I try to get novels from every continent, do you really? Either ones that have been translated or ones that are written by someone who lived there for a time? I have a whole shelf that's actually a few shelves, but it's broken out by continents. Here's my Southeast Asia section and here's my Central Asia section, and you're kind of geographically broken down.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love this. Yeah, so let's lean into this idea more about being a global Christian, Because if folks are familiar with the gospel patrons movement, they're probably familiar with this trip that you and John took years ago now and, at least according to the biography, you might remember it happening differently, but what I have read, it sounds like it's started in this conversation of John asking Renee, what do you want? And you share this dream of wanting to be a global Christian and learn to walk by faith. So if you would, during our course together today, I would love to one go a little bit back in time to say all right, what was happening then, how did God lead you through? And then, where is he leading you now? So tell me back then if you can recall sharing that piece with your husband and saying I want to be a global Christian and I want to learn to walk by faith. What was on your heart? What did that mean for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was actually a longer process. I'll give you kind of the quick recap. I grew up in a family that had lived other places in the world. My parents didn't grow up in the US and I grew up with family around the world. So I think I started out kind of with a global awareness and when I was 13, I met this girl who was a little bit older and she had gone around the world like all the way around the world in a circle. She explained to me how the airline tickets worked and all that stuff. As I look back as an adult, I'm like who was this girl? She was 16. I'm like she's more of a girl, but what I don't know. But this conversation that I had on a dock in like it was either in Washington or Alaska with this girl had stuck in my mind and it just lodged this dream Someday I want to go all the way around the world. I captured my imagination, so I held onto that, but it wasn't something I was actively pursuing. It was just this sort of someday goal.
Speaker 2:Fast forward in time, double my age and I'm in my mid-20s and John was going to grad school, he was in seminary and we weren't able to travel. At that time, I was working full time to support us and I just was having these conversations with God, complaining God, everyone else is getting to explore the world and I'm stuck here why? And one day, at a coffee shop that I like to go to, I was sitting there reading Bible and he just convicted me Renee, do you want me or do you want this dream of your life of travel and adventure? And it felt like an Abraham moment, where there's an altar and he's asking me lay down your passport. My passport was my Isaac, and with tears I was weeping in the coffee shop and I said, ok, lord, ok, I surrender. I put my passport on the altar.
Speaker 2:If I never leave the US again, I want you to be enough for me, I want to be satisfied in you. And in a really weird experience, it felt like he lit the fire and just burned up my passport. Just whoosh. I was like oh, oh, I wasn't expecting that. Where was the ram? Like OK, I said yes, give it to you?
Speaker 2:Yes, give it to you. Oh, do I still surrender? Ok, and so for a few years that was just my position. I may never leave the US again. I still have family abroad. I may never see them in their homes again. That just might be my life.
Speaker 2:So then, a few years later, when John finished seminary, we were wrestling through what now we didn't have some grand plan of how seminary fit in this bigger picture of our lives and our calling. And he very generously asked me what my dreams were, because seminary had become his dream and we've been pursuing that for four years. He asked what I dreamed of, and I didn't know that I hadn't told him about my dream of going around the world, but also that dream had died years before. And so when he said that, it popped out and I was sort of shocked, like I want to go around the world. But it came out with extra. It came out and I had not planned it or thought about it or been holding on to it or anything. It just came out with I want to go around the world to become a global Christian and to learn to walk by faith. Wow, and as it sat there it kind of felt like it was like a physical object on the table between us, felt like, oh, oh, ok, I can't say that I gave up that dream. But wait, what's that extra bit? I don't know where that came from. That wasn't the original plan. I was just thinking it was going to be a grand adventure of experiencing all these places I'd heard about and knew people from and whatever. So we prayed into it. Actually, we just said, ok, well, let's just pray about this and then God can lead. And amazingly, it felt like God brought out of the ashes Like it really had burned up, but out of the ashes like a phoenix. He rebuilt my dream and he made it better than anything I had ever dreamed of.
Speaker 2:And so, as we prayed, we just said, ok, what does it mean to be a global Christian? We want to see how the church worships in other places. So everywhere we go, we want to try and connect with a local body and participate with them in worship and the Bible and in their services. We want to meet Christians all around the world who are just being faithful Christians, either in their workplace or in missions or in their churches or whatever it is. And because we both had business backgrounds. We were particularly interested in business people using business as a platform for Christ. What does that look like? Business as missions, but then also just faithful stewardship. We just were trying to piece together relationships that we had or that like, oh, you know someone, so I think knows someone, and so just piecing together like, ok, well, here's where we know people, so here's where we're going to go.
Speaker 2:And then the walking by faith part. We didn't have a grand plan for that, but because it ended up being, we had a really short timeline for planning this trip and sort of by necessity, because A finances and B the timeline, we didn't plan where we were going to stay. All we had when we left was our initial stop and then we had one way tickets that were mostly piecing together. There were some sort of open legs where it's OK, we need to get from Athens, greece, to Morocco, so some open legs. But then everything else was sort of had a skeleton to it. The walking by faith ended up coming in. We had an iPhone 3 on the trip with a global plan which didn't actually work.
Speaker 2:Everywhere we discovered, but really we didn't have it was before Airbnb. Well, we didn't have the funds to just book a hotel every night, particularly in places where hotels are really expensive, often cities. So we just sort of went and every day we would pray God, provide our daily bread and our daily bed, and I think, just the repetition of oh, my goodness, we don't know what we're going to eat or we're going to sleep today. Ok, god, we already turned that over to you. Teach us to walk by faith, not by sight. Teach us not to freak out.
Speaker 2:It was like a major season of weight training or something. It was like spiritual weight training, yeah, where it just forced us into uncomfortable places, and there were some really uncomfortable places where I was sick for a while. I was sick as we were entering a new country. We didn't have any water. We actually couldn't get any currency because of the way some of the connections worked out. We had a really tight connection. We had to get on a train. We got on the wrong train.
Speaker 2:Our linguistic communication capabilities were not working well in that country for some reason. I'm like this should work, but I don't understand them and they don't understand me. So it just ended up being this crazy. It felt sort of desperate and yet, all throughout that couple of weeks, god sent a man to the train station who spoke a bit of English and he ran out. There wasn't even water in the train station, but he ran out and bought us some bottles of water and brought them back to us and told us which train to get on. And another man showed up when we were stuck at night trying to find this one sort of hostile hotel and he helped us find it and it just felt like every place God showed us. I'm with you, it's OK. I can give you what you need to eat and what you need to drink and a place to lay down. You can trust me when it's really uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love hearing this story. It reminds me of someone said this to me recently where if you want your faith to grow, you have to put yourself in situations where faith is required, and normally that's in an uncomfortable place because we're surrendering right, we're surrendering control. And that's exactly what you did. Like you said, it sounds like you went through a bit of very intense weight training for a season where you're really learning to build that faith muscle and relying and depending on the Lord to provide every step of the way what's?
Speaker 2:interesting, courtney, is that I think, just like with weight training, you can have a big season of that and get really strong and then, if you never train with weights again, you're not going to remain strong. It goes right back.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think our hearts are kind of like that. We need constant training, and so that big trip was in 2009. And I guess God thought we needed a refresher another season, because the last couple of years we've lived on the road full time and some of that two years of that was spent in an RV with our two kids and our cat, and we're not RV people or good candidates for that at all.
Speaker 1:You can't fit that many books in an RV.
Speaker 2:No, you know what my husband did say after we moved everything off and he drove the RV to a service place. He said it drives so differently when your books aren't on here. No, he did not.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:I don't know how many hundreds of pounds we had, but we had a lot of books.
Speaker 1:Priorities. You know Priorities? Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:I think, being forced into or led into or being willing to go into situations that stretch us and that require that kind of daily dependence for us. Living in an RV was like that, I think, because we're not fixers, we're not I don't know it's just or even like setting it up, tearing it down, all the different bits of it. It was a grand adventure and I can praise God for it now. And there were a lot of hard moments and tears on everyone's part, I think Maybe not John's, I don't know but I feel like everyone had their days of like, what are we doing? And God, you again to just say I don't know. Like, bring it in.
Speaker 2:It's going to be tight, it's going to be quiet, it's going to be small, it's going to be uncomfortable. You might be cold, you might be too hot, but you're with me and so just press in with me, listen to me, rely on me today. What have I got for you today? Look around you and see what opportunities is God bringing me, what relationships, what does he have for me? Today I can feel really small in a culture that pushes us to have a grand plan and to reach the heights of success and kind of think these seasons of smallness are God's antidote for us to help build our faith and to help build dependence on Him and to say, wow, I actually need God for physical needs which we don't really feel I don't know. We have so much in our country and in our culture and so we have great comfort, and sometimes we need little pushes of not being so comfortable to say, oh, oh, I need you, god.
Speaker 1:Yeah you're absolutely right. You know every blessing has a flip side of the coin, if you will right Like so. On one hand it can be great to feel comfortable all the time, but on the flip side of that, it makes it a lot harder for us to recognize our dependence on God right. And so I think it's important, like you said, for us to look for ways or just to maybe lean into seasons where God has already placed us, where we're being stretched. I appreciate what you said a moment ago of just starting every day with the Lord saying where are you moving today? How can I bless someone around me? And just coming from more of that place versus you know what you're experiencing earlier about being the glue right. What do I got to make sure does a full apart today? What do I have to do so that this can happen? And all of these different things. But, like you said, that intentional smallness or that intentional slowing down and making God enough. I think that's the challenge for a lot of us.
Speaker 1:Before we got on the call, we were sharing a little bit about callings. People come to me I know they come to you and John and also express a similar question of their calling, or they have this inkling in their heart that says you know you were made for more. You were made for more than just the pursuit of the American dream. Or, fill in the blank, you know, whatever it is that you've been pursuing, that's not God. And so people come, but they might be a little confused or they're not sure of what that calling is, and it almost feels more of a burden to find your calling or to figure it out. And I'm just curious if we could lean into that a little bit and tell me what your experience has been like, because you and John have gone through several different seasons together and so I'm sure it's felt different at times.
Speaker 2:That's such an interesting one because I feel that, too, that deep longing for a clear calling that has got real firm edges and comes with maybe a plan and some clear roles, like this, is where you act that out and act that calling. And that hasn't really been my experience. I think calling is been a lot slower in coming, I think even for John, who does have a much clearer calling, even in that we've known each other since we were 16 years old and I just think, wow, it took a lot of decades of prayer and experimenting and listening to mentors and asking for input and trying things and working different jobs. It took a long time. I think we can have this idea of like, oh, by 30, we should be here and figure this out. There's some timeline and game plan and I don't think God is interested in that because I think, even being in our 40s now, there's surprises like, oh, I thought that would be all figured out and nailed down and we wouldn't even be asking these questions. But I've just found that's not true and it's not really helpful to have some timeline like well, I have to have this done by age, whatever, god's on his own timeline and he's never late. As much as we might feel the pressure, he's never late, so we've got to keep going to him and trusting him. And I think the other thing I've found is that, for me, calling just hasn't felt as cut and dry, like, okay, here's the nice little package. It feels more like a direction I'm leaning into with God. Okay, these are ways, these are promptings that I feel.
Speaker 2:So for me, particularly in the last decade, I felt this rising desire to pray and to pray for people, to pray with people, and I think at first it just felt like, okay, I can do that. I didn't see it as any part of my calling, but more and more, and even this morning, as I was meditating on where are ways that God has led me into a calling, or to be a witness, or to be part of what he's doing in the world, and I thought of these different instances of praying with people and I think I'm still trying to accept oh, okay, that's part of my calling. So I have calling also in these areas of talking about faith and generosity and money and walking with God, walking by faith. And okay, there's this piece about praying praying interceding with and for other people. There's kind of different arms of it and it hasn't felt very clear and that has felt frustrating, or I think I felt insecure about not having sort of an elevator pitch Like this is what my calling is. You know, I can tell you in one minute.
Speaker 2:It feels much more like exploration and I think at the heart of that is maybe that God is calling me to be in relationship with Him continually and not come to Him for the plan, take it away and go, execute it, but come to Him, mm-hmm, engage with Him and stay there, and then I can do the things Jesus said.
Speaker 2:I only do what I see my Father doing, so to just walk with God and to do the things that I see Him doing, to be part of His heart and His will expressed in the world, to be light as he shines through me. I don't know, I feel like I'm working it out on a more. Ok, here's the calling. The calling is Jesus said you are the light of the world. Calling is you are to go and be witnesses to the ends of the earth, and I feel like we have very clear callings in the Bible and then how we work that out individually feels much more like a slow process with Jesus figuring out. Ok, what does that look like right here, where I live, in my neighborhood, in my church, in my workplace? How do I live out this calling? And that probably changes with different seasons.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely Absolutely. Like you said, it's more of just a constant just being with the Lord and saying, all right. I surely admit that at times in the past my prayers sound more like a boardroom meeting, right, like, ok, god, I did this and I did this and I did this, what's on the agenda, you know what's your goals for Q1? And like all these, like ridiculous things, and he's probably just like laughing at me a little bit, in the loving way, obviously, but so it has been a bit of a evolution for me to not come in with the approach of All right, I'm having a boardroom meeting with the big guy, instead saying, all right, I'm just going to sit down at the table with my father, just like you were saying, and just spending time with him and as my heart grows closer to his, then I can be more in tune with the Holy Spirit and I might be able to pay attention to things or notice things that I may not have otherwise noticed if I was very much in my checklist, if you will, on my agenda. I'm just thinking about a conversation I had with a friend recently who is again just in this stage of wrestling with you know what's my calling? I feel like you know, I've been given all these skills and these resources, but I don't know if God's giving me this big mission yet.
Speaker 1:And so there is this emphasis on you know what God's calling me to.
Speaker 1:Does it seem worthy enough, is it exciting enough for you know all of these things, and to anyone who may be feeling that same way, as you're listening, I just want to encourage you to say a lot of times, the things that God's calling us to is just that, one little small step, as you were mentioning earlier.
Speaker 1:You know, just leaning in to pray for someone right, that could be a big piece of your calling and what God's asking you to do, or he wants to partner with you in those things which can be absolutely life-giving. I remember in the story of the widow and the two mites, and how she gave her two coins, and to her she could have easily said you know, this doesn't seem like a lot compared to what everyone else is getting or giving, but this is what I have. And yet Jesus exalted her and said she did it right. This is the one, and so I just want to encourage everyone listening that it doesn't have to feel like this big moment of yes, this is, you know, this is the elevator pitch. This is the big thing that I'm going for, but more, you know, this is just a small thing that I heard God share with me today, and so I leaned in and just taking that one small step.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so good, courtney, and I think the story of the widow and Randy Alcorn's Law of Rewards have been so instrumental for me in this, because, tell me more, tell me more. I think a lot about. What does it look like eventually? And it may be short, it may be a long time, but when God brings us into eternity with him, and specifically kind of at the start of that, when God is reviewing our lives and rewarding us based on our earthly lives and the choices that we made and the things that happened, which is officially called the Bima Judgment Seat but it's not the judgment seat of believers and unbelievers, it's the judgment seat of believers looking at what rewards did they store up and during their earthly lives. And that shifts everything for me as I think about OK, what is the true value of this activity or my attitude in this event?
Speaker 2:I talk with my kids. Sometimes it's like, hey guys, did you know you have opportunities to earn rewards in eternity right now. You could do that by even doing your household chores with joy and cheerfulness and saying God, I want to offer this to you. You can invest in churches or missions. We had a friend recently, a high school friend. She's graduating high school and she's going for six months as a missionary and it was so exciting to see our son really catch the vision for that and say whoa, I want to be part of her team that's sending her. And he gave. I can't remember how much money maybe he had like $75 or $100, but he gave $50 to fund her trip and it was so sweet. She wrote him an individual note and he was so excited. He's like this is my first missionary thank you letter and it's not going to be the last.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love it, I love that, and it's amazing to me, yeah, and I was telling them I was getting all jazz and they were laughing because they know that I get excited about this. But I'm like guys, think about it. You've invested $50 today, but if we think about compound interest for eternity, people try to convince you as a 13 year old that you should invest in your college fund or whatever because of compound interest. I'm like but think of it on a scale so much grander, like guys, this is amazing. This is an amazing investment opportunity. You got it. Got to get in on this one. Oh, I love it so much.
Speaker 2:I think that helps shape my days that it's not the widows. Two coins were actually small. It wasn't going to fund a whole lot of the temple work or whatever was going on. And yet God's economy is so different that Jesus says this is more than what everybody else puts in.
Speaker 2:So somehow in the scheme of eternity, in the way that God weights things, based on our faith and our attitude and our connection with him, we can make significant deposits in eternity, even through things that seem on an earthly scale or, by the world standard, seem insignificant, and so I've been trying more and more to calibrate my life to that there will be big things and exciting things and things that look good on the outside, but there might be way more eternal rewards for the things that are hidden and harder and smaller and inconvenient, and you know all these different things that I just feel like. Ok, lord, help me to have your eyes to see the good works that you've put before me, so I'm not just thinking it's newsworthy, but to help me see that those things might actually be interrupting my own plans, to see the person that you've set in front of me and to love them in some tangible way. Help me, help me to really see, as you see, so that I'm not building my life based on hoopla or, like you know, press releases.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, absolutely, and I love this reminder to really live our life in light of eternity. Right, and you're absolutely correct that Jesus's economy works so much different than ours does and we at least I can be easy to get caught up in the more and bigger is better and all of these things. It needs to be a grand gesture. It needs to be a grand giving. You know, if I can't give this huge amount, then why should I give it all? You know it's easy to get caught up in this type of thinking and completely lose sight of how our Heavenly Father views things, because he doesn't look at the things the same way that we do. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, giving is such a good ground for this. I think For us it's been a really important part of our journey because it challenges us and I think, even kind of going back to the working out analogy, like giving small amounts are like you're just putting up those reps even, and the thing is, if it's a small amount that's stretching still, like either stretching your faith or stretching your budget. Those are the best because you're actually like building those muscles of faith that might be so much more than someone else's large gift. Again, in God's sort of upside down economy, like what matters is our interaction with God, our faith, our attitudes as we do those things. And I think giving is a really regular part of our life. And it's interesting because I feel like I still need the challenge to be fresh with it and to engage with God. There are many things that are kind of there, on auto pay even, you know, like okay, we've made a commitment to support these different people or organizations and we do try to stay involved and up to date on what they're doing. But I think there's this call for me of like what does it look like to engage more deeply and what does it look like to come to a request for money with a fresh heart and say, god, what do you have for us in this? I don't want to just look at the budget or feel like, okay, well, we have X amount. We could probably, you know, give that. I think we've, john and I both tried to say, okay, god, what would you have us do in this situation? And sometimes that's hard because it feels like he keeps us in a place of discomfort, a little bit of like oh, okay, that's not in the easy and the comfortable and I'm not sure how that works out. Okay, I'm willing to trust that that's from you and we'll kind of pour into that and see, but we're going to need you to do something different to God and enable that. I think that's been a really stretching place for me and interestingly, courtney, we were talking a little bit about being on the same page with your spouse and what is that, mm? Hmm, that's something I really care about and that's been an interesting journey.
Speaker 2:I think John and I have known each other for a long time and we come from a bit different family backgrounds and so we were in different places when we got married. And I don't know I mean John likes to say that I had some kind of wisdom to be patient or something. But you know, in my 20s I don't even know. I feel like God. Just, I was really wanting to do some things financially, like give to some missionaries or do some things, and John wasn't ready. John felt like whoa, we've just paid off school debt and like finances are uncertain and I haven't got my work and career figured out yet.
Speaker 2:And when we weren't on the same page, I think there was a sense of like well, we both need to keep pursuing God, and for me, my part of that was just God, this is what's in my heart to do, this is what I want to do. I don't know that I asked him to change John's heart, but I think it was just like Lord, enable this. I think you've put this in my heart, make a way. And God actually spoke to John very specifically about these one missionaries that I was wanting to support, and he just gave him this like lightning bolt moment of what are you going to do? Are you going to open your heart? And your heart will just keep getting bigger and broader, like that verse in proverbs. I think it is that the world of the generous man gets bigger and bigger and, like the heart of the stingy, grows smaller and smaller. Like, those are your options? The Grinch, the Grinch before, the Grinch after. Like, what do you want? Little heart, big heart?
Speaker 2:I think there have been different points where one or the other of us has had a desire to give in a certain way, and I think the key to being on the same page for us has been that we're trusting God. First of all, because there was a time I wasn't able to go to a fundraising weekend I don't know, the kids got sick at the last minute or something. I stayed home. He went and he called me and I remember the kids were small and so somebody was having a meltdown. They were screaming in the background and trying to hear what he was saying and he's like feeling emotional. He's like I think God is calling us to give $100,000. And I was like what? Okay, you know what? I need to go check on some kids. Okay, I trust you, I trust God, go for it.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, wow, oh, my goodness. It was an interesting thing because it was a multi-year commitment, and so at that moment I felt like I made the choice. You know what? I trust that God's moving in him, like he's shared just a snippet. It sounds like God's doing something in his heart, so I want to try and just trust him. And God Okay, there's something going on here, let's go for it. Because I don't ever want to say no to God. For me, I think, even being the VP of fun means going on the adventure with God, and so I never want to say no to an adventure with God. That would be the worst. He invites us to a party. We're like no, I think I like my little sandbox over here better. Like you can keep your green party, I'll just go play by myself. So I said yes.
Speaker 2:And then the next couple of years I think I felt more of the tension about it. Is God doing it? Have we seen it? Like how in the world are we going to be able to meet this commitment? Like the money hasn't come in, what do we do? And John just kept saying it's okay, god led us into this, he'll show us the way forward and we would try, in those moments of anxiety, to pray about it. Okay, lord, show us. And I kept saying like, okay, maybe we can reduce our expenses more and we can chunk away little chunks of money every month. And John's like I don't think that's what God's calling us to do. Don't stress Okay, okay, but I feel responsible. We made this commitment. What do we do?
Speaker 2:And in the end and in God's providence, I don't even know how God provided exactly, except that through like a crazy set of life circumstances, our expenses changed and shifted and we had a sabbatical and then we got home and we looked at our bank account and we're like huh, there's actually $100,000 in there. That's crazy. It doesn't even really add up to me, but it's there. And I kept thinking wait, did we not pay some expenses? Like what? We haven't really been paying attention because we were on sabbatical and we were actually looking at buying a house at that point. And on Good Friday, actually stirring COVID, good Friday of 2020, I think wasn't the next year, I don't know but we ended up saying you know what, we're not going forward with the house. There were a ton of offers and we're like you know what? We're not going to battle it out for this house.
Speaker 2:I think that money is to meet this commitment and it meant zeroing out the bank account and we wrote that check and walked down to the post office and then went to Good Friday service and it felt somber in a way of like whoa Lord, wow, you've provided, and I don't even quite understand how.
Speaker 2:And wow, lord, this would be the down payment on the house. But I mean, we already committed years ago to give and this was like why did the end of that three or four year window when the giving commitment was going to be due? It was an interesting experience of even trying to work out between John and I how do we navigate some of these things when one of us feels a prompting or a desire to do something with giving, a generosity, and the other one isn't fully on board. Or you know how do we walk that out? And I think it's been with patience, it's been with a lot of conversation and trusting God. Ultimately that God's the one who's calling us forward and if we keep taking those little steps with him and walking with him, that it'll turn out. In the end it'll be okay.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that story. Thank you so much for sharing these because it provides very tangible, practical ideas of what this looks like to actually grow in generosity with your spouse and what does it look like to be dependent on God and listen. And you know, something that you said earlier that I picked up on and I've caught myself recently doing this is I make my decisions based on how much is in my account and not how much is God asking me to give right and just trusting that he's going to provide whatever number you know that he puts on your heart of just trusting, just kind of letting it go right. And so I picked up on that. And you know something that John had shared when he was with us. You know something that he attributed your guys a success to, and specifically in growing in generosity. He said well, I have a really godly wife and so I really appreciate getting to hear your side and hear what was it like for you both as you were growing in generosity together. And something that's been impressed on my heart is that both of you kept your eyes on God and what he was doing and growing your relationship and your trust with him, instead of keeping your eyes on each other, because I find that's where a lot of couples get stuck is I'm looking at him, he's looking at me. We're just waiting for the next person to move so we can balance it. Right. It was like wait, wait. We need to stop looking at each other and we need to just look up to God, right?
Speaker 1:I just hear so many couples who have this deep desire to grow spiritually with their spouse so that they're moving together towards Christ, and so that's just something I wanted to draw out from your story. Is well, stop looking at your spouse and start looking at God and really trusting that he's going to order the steps. Really, would you have any other word of encouragement that you would share for a couple who's sitting here at the table with us and they're saying that story that you shared with you and your husband, I want that too. I want to experience, I want to go party with Jesus. What does that look like? You say that and I'm like, yes, okay, let's go. But for the couple who's sitting at the table with us, what would you say to encourage them?
Speaker 2:I think certainly keep wrestling with God. I think I've found that to be fruitful. It doesn't feel like it and sometimes it's really hard and can feel very lonely. But I think of the story of Jacob in the Old Testament wrestling with God and he left that interaction with a limp and I'm sorry a friend about this recently who actually was limping and she was just thinking about this season of it had been a season of spiritually wrestling with God and then she had this injury and she was physically limping and it's okay to limp, it's okay to wrestle.
Speaker 2:And for that even to be kind of a prolonged like God God, I want you to bless me is what Jacob was asking and, like God, I want to understand. Or, god, show me how to proceed in this calling that you have for me, or how to grow in generosity. I feel like wrestling with God and sitting with him is always the answer. So sometimes it'll feel less intense and it'll feel more peaceful. You know, you can sit beside a quiet water and be a little lamb and Jesus can be your shepherd. There's those moments too, but it's okay to wrestle and to have it feel dark and lonely and messy, and that's okay. And the other thing is that, even as you said that you want to go to that party, I was thinking it's a party, there's people at the party and it's not just us.
Speaker 2:And sometimes we need community and for me, one of the big things has been watching other generous people and they are so joyful. There are a few people I know who are crazy generous, and it's not that they're the most wealthy although some of them have great means but they just love to give and they're always there on the adventure with Jesus, like, okay, what opportunities do you have for me today? How can I give, how can I bless? And they see it as the most fun. And so being around people like that, or hearing stories of people like that, watching some short films, I feel like it reshapes my sense of what it means to engage God in generosity and how joyful it is.
Speaker 2:I think that joy has always captured me because I've seen it in other people and it's that community. Being in conversation with people about giving or reading books or watching stories of other generous people. It helps reset for me what this might look like and the joy that it could hold and that keeps me pressing forward, saying God, I want more of that. So, whatever it takes, let's go for more of that. Let's have more of that joy generosity party.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, that's so good. That's so good. I appreciate everything that you're sharing with us today and as we're wrapping up. You've given us so many great stories about the initial first trip and traveling and learning to walk by faith, and a lot of that tension and wrestling with God in between, and I'm just curious where is God leading you right now? What is he put on your heart?
Speaker 2:Thank you for asking. I feel like I've really been in another season of wrestling and it does seem that this year God's Again opening the door to that global Christian idea and specifically to my role in that. So, both with Gospel patrons, my heart specifically would be that we're serving the church, the big sea church, the church all around the world. God's given us a platform across the English-speaking world even from the very beginning, with Australia, south Africa, england and the UK, but there are so many people beyond that who don't have a ton of resources on generosity, and so I think what he's calling me into is to be prayerful about that. First of all, like Lord, how would you bring us partners to translate resources we already have to give away to bless believers in Brazil or in Ghana or in India, wherever it is? And we've had like little bits of that that we've been able to do, and God's the one doing it.
Speaker 2:I think that's what's been so comforting, because this has been on my heart and I feel so small, like I'm one little person and I have a lot of things on my plate. So how in the world do I do this? But God is doing it, and we even just found out about a group in Poland who meets together to talk about generosity and Gospel patronage, and they're even making short films now in Polish about stories of how God's led people to give generously and become Gospel patrons. Wow, so God's the one who's got it. He's doing it. That's huge, and I want to lean into.
Speaker 2:What does my role look like with the global church? How can I be positioned to pray for and to bless and to partner with the church more broadly? So part of that will be going to the Luzon conference in Seoul, korea, later this year. There was other travel and partnership opportunities on my plate, so I think I'm just prayerfully saying, like God, what do you have me to bring to this? How do I balance this with being a parent, with, you know, having other responsibilities and ministry? That's something I'm excited about.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is exciting. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you so much. We will certainly all of us be joining you in prayer and thank you, I'm excited to see how God is going to continue to work through you and in you and just to bless all of us and bless your family and the world. Honestly, it's exciting to see. And as you were talking, one last thing I'll share. As you were talking, you say I'm just one person. This is all I have, but I have this big vision, you know, on this big heart, and I serve a big God.
Speaker 1:I was just thinking about the story of Jesus feeding the 5,000 and the little boy who came up with the 5,000, bread and the fish. And we were just meditating on this and we were there. So I wasn't sure you know how it actually played out. But what I like to envision is that Jesus is there with his disciples and he's saying all right, we got to feed these people. They're hungry. What do we got? You know, naturally, the disciples. What do they respond with? They respond with money, Right? Like well, we don't have this kind of money in the nearest town is so far away Logistically it's not going to work, Right? But I like to just imagine that this little boy is overhearing Jesus and he's saying, yeah, we need to feed people, People are hungry. And you know, he comes up with this childlike innocent faith to say, well, I have food. Can you feed everyone with this Right? And he's like you know what? I sure can. Yeah, let's go, let's have a party.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, let's have a party, yes, and so I just imagined that same thing with you. Of all right, renee, you're the little boy with the fish and you're saying, yeah, god, all right, this is what I have. Can we feed the world with this? Can you use this? And he's like, yeah, because I'm going to multiply everything that you're doing. Right, it's not up to you, it's up to John or gospel patrons, but it's really just like God who's going to multiply everything that you guys are doing. So I just want to speak that into you today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, that's encouraging, courtney. We do serve a good God. He has good plans. He really does. He is. He's feeding people, yes, physically and spiritually.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, I love it. Okay, thank you so much, renee. You've shared so many good nuggets with us. One thing that I'm personally walking away with is this idea that it's okay to wrestle with God. That's what I'm walking away with today this idea that it's okay to wrestle with God sometimes, and it's okay if you don't have your life wrapped up in this neat little bow and it's perfectly packaged and it looks like you know potentially what someone else's life looks like, right, yep, so thank you for that. Tell me, where do you walk in away from this conversation with?
Speaker 2:I think again lately I feel like huge meaningful conversation. I leave lately saying, wow, god really is in control and he's good and he's working in each one of us and so we can rest in that. I think a friend this morning was even talking about the message translation of Matthew 11, 28, the unforced rhythms of grace. We still know that he's God, we can rest in him, we can know that his burden is light and his yoke is easy, and so I think I just hear that again through our conversation of God's the one who's got us and our life can be good just in walking with him and he is with us.
Speaker 1:Amen to that, amen. Well, folks, as you're listening, if you weren't excited to go party with Jesus, I don't know who else is going to get you more excited than Renee Reinhart. So my prayer for you while listening is to slow down, to really lean into your heavenly father, just to take every day and just be with him. That's really all that it is. Just be with him, look for Christ, you'll find him, and with him, everything else. Thank you so much. Everyone, have a good day. Thank you, renee, for being here. Thanks, courtney. Bye guys. Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has blessed you, share our podcast with a friend and if you have a money question, email me at Courtney and marglicoachinggroupcom. I'm Courtney Margley and this has been the heart of money.