Some messages are so good, we want to share them again!
~
Have you ever wondered how people can have such varying views on money? In this episode, Courtney interviews Lawrence Funderburke, aka Mr. Fundy. Lawrence is a follower of Christ, a former NBA player, and a Certified Financial Planner. He is the expert on how different social classes behave with money.
During their conversation, Lawrence not only shares how your life experiences shape your money habits, he also gives a thought-provoking message on what it truly means to be a steward for Christ.
Some messages are so good, we want to share them again!
~
Have you ever wondered how people can have such varying views on money? In this episode, Courtney interviews Lawrence Funderburke, aka Mr. Fundy. Lawrence is a follower of Christ, a former NBA player, and a Certified Financial Planner. He is the expert on how different social classes behave with money.
During their conversation, Lawrence not only shares how your life experiences shape your money habits, he also gives a thought-provoking message on what it truly means to be a steward for Christ.
I'm Courtney Markley, and this is the Heart of Money. Talking about money can be really hard and uncomfortable, but it doesn't need to be. The problem is, we're taught to think about money in terms that are too much like science, with rules and regulations, and not enough like psychology, with emotions and nuance. Join me on my mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time. Welcome everyone. I'm so glad that you're here with us today. Whether you are someone on your own financial journey or if you're a leader who's looking to gain more insight in how to lead people into deeper, christ centered money conversations. I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you made it. Joining me today is Lawrence Fonderberg, aka Mr Fundy. Welcome, lawrence.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks for having me, Courtney. It's an honor for me to be here and to talk about some very important topics that I think a lot of Christians either avoid or are very uncomfortable talking or discussing.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm thrilled to have you, and just a moment ago, before we hit record, you mentioned that you always like to point out the first three letters of your last name, f-u-n. Fun Cause, even though the conversations that you and I typically have with people, they are challenging and they're deeply convicting, we also like to have fun with them too, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So for those of our listeners who may not have heard of you before, I wanna give a little bit of insight. So, Lawrence, you've really carved out a niche for yourself within the financial industry, not only as a strong Christian believer in your very faith forward in your walk, but you've also become an expert on how different social classes think and behave differently with their money. Tell us a little bit more about what you do on a regular basis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been a certified financial planner now for about 13 years and when I retired from basketball so I played at Ohio State I guess people were familiar with me in terms of their understanding of my basketball career. And then, after the NBA, I really poured a lot of my attention, along with my wife, and really empowering people and particularly bridging some of the gaps in our society. So I was mentored personally by a gentleman, johnny Sustina. So we started John Sustina companies, considered the Godfather of fee only financial planning, and I worked there for probably about eight months. The Lord just laid on my heart that I didn't wanna help wealthy people to become wealthy or I wanted to help the middle class and the lower class or the struggling class have an opportunity to be successful in life. So I really poured my heart into becoming a certified financial planner, which was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 2:I played against Michael Jordan and Shaq and Kobe and Tim Duncan all these great players hall of famers but nothing was as hard as becoming a certified financial planner and, as you have to know, everything was a 10 hour test over two days. I was studying in nine hours a day and my daughter asked me when she was really young daddy, when are you gonna be done studying? And I said I'm only taking this one time so that I can get back to the course of business with my family. But I realized that it was so important to have a holistic perspective, to really help people and really make it practical, tactical and musical, because I think when you do that, then it becomes relatable, it's palatable, it's identifiable and sustainable. It's relatable because you can speak to people in a language that they clearly understand.
Speaker 2:I say that we all speak English, but we don't all speak the same dialect. I think we have a dialect problem, particularly around money. Social class, too, doesn't like to talk about a lot of these hidden norms and some of these things that people just don't discuss. But it's palatable, meaning that people gotta be able to digest it, they gotta be able to taste it. The Bible says taste and see that the Lord is good.
Speaker 2:But how can you taste success if you don't first see it? And the third one is it's gotta be identifiable, meaning there has to be a model that people can actually see. It's so important for us to really understand that images and our words speak a lot to it, not only how we see our world, but how we walk in our faith in terms of the word. So I think it's very important that if you can do all three of those things, if we can make it relatable, palatable and identifiable, then you have a good chance and you know this, obviously, with the great work that you do, where it can be sustainable. The stickiness, I think, is a very difficult thing in the world when it comes to finance, because so many people have so many hangups, hiccups and holdups when it comes to their money script.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, and I wanna pick your brain a little bit for our audience, because I think you just dropped so much knowledge on us and I really appreciate it. So when you're talking to different people, maybe they're in more of that struggling class, maybe they came from a poor family or they're in that kind of middle class mentality how do you adjust the language that you use when you're talking to them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think God has given me an incredible gift to be able to speak to all groups. Whether it's how I grew up, with Pookie and Ray Ray Nam, or the Mary and John Thomas in the middle class, or the Hofsteins and Affluence, my comfort level is the same. I'm not uncomfortable in any particular environment, and particularly when it comes to the struggling class or the lower class, or what I call the scarcity class. Telling stories and relating stories because I think sometimes people don't think that there's a connection and then when I show them and I pull out a food step in my pocket I've kept for decades because this is a service as a constant reminder and what people don't understand, no matter where you come from or how far you remove from that environment, the memories are still there, right, and every memory has an emotion. Every emotion has a feeling and every feeling is connected to a behavior pattern. So I think if you can get to the why and really me being able to identify, diagnose not only my situation but all of the people that I've studied over the years, it gives me credibility because I've been there, I can tell stories and then they say, yep, you know what it's like and you know you never forget where you come from and I always say the stench of poverty is always on me and I never want that smell to go away. And the reason why I don't want it to go away? Because once that happens I'm going to be removed from the very people that God has really called me to help and assist and, as Jesus called us to do, the hill to broken hearted. That's really.
Speaker 2:You know my ministry and particularly this class. You know some of them have so many embedded traumas that if you never get to the roots then you have no chance with the offshoots. The Bible is full of agricultural terms. A lot of times we don't see it from that perspective, but if we look at it it really comes down to the root system. And when it comes to that particular group, the scarcity class, you got to really get to the roots to have any chance with the offshoots. You can teach them whatever you want about tools and you know this very well, but if you never get to those embedded roots in terms of the trauma, in terms of all those deep things that have happened, those hurts, those pains, those struggles, those heartaches, all of those things, you have no chance of impacting them in a substantial way.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing that. So essentially, what you're saying is we have to dig to the root. If we're merely just giving people information, it's really not going to help that much, right, until they've uncovered all these deeper issues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, when it comes to trauma, I mean you have trauma triggers people don't like the term trigger because it's associated with guns and particularly people have issue with their depressing thoughts or suicidal thoughts but you know you have trauma triggers. You have, you know, trauma trails. You have trauma traps, you have all these different things and trauma. You bury it and you have to go back there in order to get free here. And I think it's very important for us to understand this, because with trauma, you know you never know what's going to really influence you, to go back and say, man, I never thought about that, I buried it, I didn't want to address it, and then these things keep surfacing, particularly when it comes to money or whatever the case may be. It can even be a job, but you got to be able to go there in order to help them get free here. And I think I am very disappointed in church, because I think the church should be in the business of liberating people and I don't think we've done an adequate job at that. And part of that is we are really focusing only on the surface, and I often say that you know most people are looking for surface level solutions. They're deep rooted problems and unfortunately, the church has been complicit in that as well, and that is why people are struggling and continue to struggle, because the church hasn't been a catalyst in terms of freeing people.
Speaker 2:So I am big at really helping people understand. But you know, when you got to get to the roots, guess what? There's a lot of dirt there. You're going to get dirty, and I always tell people that Jesus, he didn't wear skates, he wore sandals. He got his hands in his feet dirty and he demands that we do the same thing. But also, when it comes to the dirt, when the soil right, you also have the nutrients as well. So I think it's very important for us to understand that with any root system, yes, you're going to dig things up, you're just going to be dirty, but you get a chance to reclaim things, and I think that's the beauty of the Bible. It speaks to that the fruit of the spirit and the agricultural and how we have to be rooted in Christ and if that's the case, we can truly help people. Bread free.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I'm loving this, something I want to repeat that you just said, and correct me if I'm misstating this but people want surface level solutions to deep rooted problems. Yes, yes, I couldn't agree more. And it might not be intentional. I don't think I've ever had anyone sit down and say like I really just want to have a really superficial conversation with you today. It's just become the normal, so normal that we don't even recognize it. And I see this in money too, where we look at money very superficially. We want a formula. We just, you know, tell us the math, explain the formula, and then I don't have to think about God, I don't have to think about anything else, because I'm just going to follow what the math tells me and that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But something that I've been studying recently and just recognizing more and more that a lot of the modern financial tools that we have I mean they didn't even exist. You know, some of them didn't even exist 30, 40 years ago. Right, the FICO score was created in the 80s. Credit source didn't come about until, you know, around that time. There's a lot of things when we think about current, like financial planning and financial stewardship, we're thinking of these tools that are so new and they become very superficial, and just let me plug in this formula where you know, the Bible has existed long before all of these things and it has a lot to say about money, but a lot of them deal with much deeper issues that we're not always willing to go to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, with that surface level solutions, the deep rooted problems. Not only are these tools in a way impersonal, I think people are looking at it from a standpoint of a microwave society. Right, just throw it in there, heat it up real fast and then, while odd, that's what you have, when the reality is is that these things take time. And when you think about a root system right, you got to keep watering it, right, you got to take care of it and eventually, right, once you do that, things will happen. The problem is, for a lot of people they're very impatient. But if we know the Bible, the last fruit mentioned, number nine, is self control. Right, and with self control it's embedded. Patience is part of that, you know, faithfulness is part of that.
Speaker 2:And I think for a lot of Christians, you know they've gotten caught up in this world in terms of warp speed, microwave society, and I think it's really did a tremendous disservice to not only the Lord but the fruit of the spirit who's inside of us, because we're so impatient with the process and if you never buy into the process, you have no chance with the progress and I think, the church, you know.
Speaker 2:Again, I keep coming back because, at the end of the day, at the judgment seat of Christ, we're going to have to give an account for everything in his body and all of us who are in the business of helping people, I mean, we're going to have to be held accountable as well. And I think people are going to be quite surprised what actually takes place at the judgment seat of Christ, because it's not going to have anything to do with sin, because that's been accounted for in a tone for in Jesus Christ, everything that he's entrusted under our care we are going to have to give an account for and, based on that, our rewards will be determined from that. So I think people don't understand how serious this whole financial stewardship is and stewardship in general, and I think the church should be leading as opposed to lagging, and you know we're not, by and large, representing Christ like we should.
Speaker 1:And it can be really challenging for different leaders who are stepping into this space of well, I want to have deeper, christ centered money conversations, but if they're not necessarily seeing it from their church, where do they get it from? So I'm curious how do you go about leading these discussions so that people can take some insight and potentially use a similar strategy, if you will?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, the first question you have to ask and then settle is who is the owner? Is it the Lord? I mean, jesus spoke more about money than about any other subject, and so it's a serious matter because you know he said where your heart is, so where your treasures be, and I think it's so important that we cannot serve God and mammon or money at the same time. But there's a lot of things. It could be a title, it could be a job, it could be an asset, it could be a way of life. I mean, all of these things can be idols in our lives and I think it's very important for us to really understand and show people what is really truly important. And particularly, you know, when you help people settle the issue of lorship, then you know it's a lot easier sale to get them to buy into the process. Right, because you're not the owner, you're just a steward.
Speaker 2:And that's why I wrote a book called the Stewardship Playbook to kind of help people in fiber is their time, their talents, their temperament, their temple. Hopefully we get a chance to talk about that, because you can have all the wealth in the world, but if you don't, you have your health. What does that mean? And then also the last one is are your treasures? So I think it's very important to help people. And there are many other teas, but I kind of focus on those five teas because they kind of correspond or correlate with a particular position on the basketball court.
Speaker 1:Very good. Ok, so tell us more about the Stewardship Playbook. Who is this written for? Who's the audience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's geared for Christians. It's geared for those of us who call the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. As I said, if you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in repentance, you're my brother or my sister. I don't argue over the nominations and those things. I think we get caught up in a lot of the weeds. But I wrote this book for the body of Christ and I tell you, when it comes to time, people say yeah, I get it. You know our time should be devoted to the Lord or we should be focused on the Lord. That's kind of your point guard. And setting the stage right in the morning. You know, prayer throughout the day, really honoring the Lord. I think it's very important, which was great.
Speaker 2:We opened up in prayer before this podcast even began. My two guard would be considered my Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, and that's really scoring the ball. That's your talents and I think a lot of people don't understand this that Psalms 139, verse 14 says I am fearfully and wonderfully made, marvelous are your works, and that my soul knows very well. But the first thing he said I will praise you. Why? Why would he praise the Lord? Because when you understand the body and the brain and the belly and all the things. You see the miraculous hand of God and you understand that nothing is by accident and the fact that the talents that he's placed inside of us, courtney, they correspond even with our gifts and our ministry gifts and I think it's a perfect synergy between them. So I really talk a lot about that. Our talents physically line up with our spiritual gifts that God has placed inside of us. And then the temperament would be considered, my LeBron James, having an understanding that our temperament really determines and really influences us, unfortunately in the negative ways, because we never put our temperament or our mood on the altar. And I think for a lot of people the brokenness that they have financially is really probably tied to their temperament, which goes all the way back again, as I said at the onset, to some type of trauma.
Speaker 2:Right, so you got to be able to help people, particularly in scarcity, particularly in security class or the middle class. We got to talk about that because they don't want to go up or go down. They have fear in whatever things start shaking. When I talked about for the middle class or the security class, you know a safe job with benefits that's, the home ownership and a secure retirement, and when any of those pillars start shaking, they get really, really nervous. The problem is is they hold on to those things which they can control. Unfortunately, when it comes to their work ethic, particularly in the day's time, right companies don't necessarily have the loyalty they once did. So, I think the security class they have a hard time of leveraging those things which they can control and they have the hardest time to me to help them. When it comes to building wealth, the middle classes are the hardest to deal with because of those embedded fears, right in terms of wanting to remain where they are.
Speaker 2:And then the temple is my power for it, which is kind of a boring position. I played against two of the best power forts of all time and most people don't even pay much attention to him with Tim Duncan and Carl Malone, because you know, power force is kind of a boring position. I play power for, by the way, an NBA, and it's the rebound play defense. You know those types of things. And what I talk about here is the temple, which is the body, and taking care of your body. And I tell Christians all the time God is full of grace, but your body is, you can eat whatever you want, saints of God. You just might get to heaven much sooner than you should.
Speaker 2:Now they may laugh at me or laugh when I say that, but I'm very serious, because the principle of sowing and reaping is embedded throughout Scripture.
Speaker 2:We're not under the law, but God has nutritional laws and when we don't follow those laws, we're punished for them.
Speaker 2:What's interesting is that the seven day of Venice and there's been books about the blue zone, you probably familiar with that in terms of people who eat a certain way, how they have longevity, because you reap what you sow, because we're all created an image of God and that the seven day of Venice live longer and have healthier outcomes than any other denomination, which is really interesting.
Speaker 2:Right, because some people have issues with some day of Venice, think that they practice things under the law and the Sabbath, saturday and all those things, and I don't argue with people over those things, but when that comes to how they operate and live their lives from a nutritional perspective, they're right on point because they eat as close to nature as possible. We're from the dust of the earth, so why are we eating more things to come from the earth? It really becomes that all this manufactured stuff is counterproductive to our health and, as a result, I think it even can affect our spirituality, because when your body is strained or compromised and it's not healthy, then it can set you up or make you more susceptible for spiritual influences of the negative kind.
Speaker 2:I know a lot of people may not look at that, but when your brain is not operating right, you're not in your right mind, you can't think straight right or act straight or feel good, so that has a profound impact. I get the biggest pushback from this particular tea in the stewardship playbook to any other area because of the bondage that people have when it comes to their food, and I tell people all the time there's another tea that they might need to put on the altar and that's their tongue, their taste buds, because it's very, very important. And one of the reasons before I move on here to this last one that I believe that when the children of Israel, the Hebrews, were taken out of Egyptian bondage, moses led them to a Mara, and Mara means bitter waters, right, and people said, well, what they poureds in waters? No, the problem is is those waters were full of nutrients, particularly minerals, and anyone who has minerals, particularly in its pure state, it is very bitter to your mouth, right. So it was to cleanse them of the Egyptian ways in terms of their digestive system and what they were used to.
Speaker 2:So God was cleaning their system and they looked at it as he was poisoning them or whatever, and most Christians don't look at that because when you come in this newness, you got to be transformed all the way through and I think for a lot of Christians don't really understand what that actually means. Because we're in the last days, we got to be healthy, we have to be healthy and in our right mind and it's very important for Christians to understand and come out of the pharma key of spirit which is all these fake foods, as pharma keyages the devil's foods in a lot of ways. And then the last thing is the treasures. Let me move on for the treasure, because I know some Christians are going to be uncomfortable me talking about this temple so much.
Speaker 2:But the treasures are really.
Speaker 1:You're stepping on toes, but I'm loving it. I know, I know I'm stepping on a lot.
Speaker 2:I wear nice 16 shoes, so it's going to be painful, but the treasures are really simple. Most people think of stewardship from a treasure perspective in terms of finances, but yes, it is in terms of tidying. But God doesn't just deserve the 10 percent, he owns all of it, right Even the 90 percent, and I'm a big fan of Reverse Tithing.
Speaker 1:You are. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I am the Treasure Principal by Randy Alcorn. Yes, yes, you know I'm not there yet. I would love to be there one day. But I think it's a great thing because then you know you're not beholden to the money and that way you can truly use resources for God's kingdom. It's not for everybody, because I don't think a lot of people will buy into it and it's very difficult as well. I mean, you know, just in terms of the cost of living and all the things that have happened over the past few years with inflation.
Speaker 2:But really your treasure is really not just in terms of finances, but people got to think about their holistic plan when it comes to your life plan, your financial management, your wealth accumulation, which really is God's money, protection of assets and income Very important. A lot of people don't have life insurance. You know this, probably working with people. And then the last one is estate planning, which is really very important for people as well to understand, because you know the Bible says a good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children, and that just simply means that you know it's not just money, it's what is this family's legacy going to be spiritually? That is more important, right, and I think it's very important for us to have a holistic picture when it comes to our stewardship.
Speaker 1:I'm digesting so much and I love it because you essentially took a thought that most people don't question too much, which is stewardship, and tithing is synonymous, and you just kind of unraveled it for everyone to say, no, no, it's actually so so much more Not only about your giving, but how you spend your time, what foods you put in your body, all of these different things. Stewardship is all of that rolled into one.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, like when I eat, you know my temple, and I'm eating God's food, get a medicine, foods of God, and I eat meat. I don't eat gluten, I don't eat soy, I don't eat dairy, I don't eat pork If God didn't make it I don't eat it. You know, and I eat really, really clean, lots of vegetables, lots of fruits, those types of things. I do eat meat, of course, but, you know, one of the things is that you have clarity of mind, you feel better. It's such a wonderful thing and when I eat healthy and I made a vow to the Lord.
Speaker 2:The Bible says it's better not to make a vow than to make a vow not fulfill it. That's an ecclesiasties. So people got to be very careful what vows they make. But I made a vow to honor God and to worship him in what I eat and I believe he's honor me because of that and the fact that it is an act of worship to eat healthy and to eat his foods, because I realize, in the garden, particularly going back to Genesis, you really think about how he created this for his sustenance and we've gotten so far away from it. You know, we had a son on the autism spectrum. We were given the foods that were actually poisoning and hurting him, and that was our fault as parents, because he didn't go to the grocery store and we did, so we brought the food in. We realized that he was the sickest in the family, but he ended up saving our family and I think it's so important to understand that when you invest in your health, you're investing in your wealth, and I think it's very important for people and Christians to understand that.
Speaker 2:When you look at the prayer line at churches, 80% of the prayer requests are for lifestyle issues that can be prevented, and I think it's. You know, can God go against his nutritional laws? He can, but I don't think he will. Why? Because when we violate those nutritional laws, we bring judgment on our own body, and I know Christians don't like hearing it. I mean, I'm not the food police. I'm not going to follow you to McDonald's or or some other. I'm not going to do that. Crispy cream donuts, I'm not going to do that. But you have to understand that you're bought with a price and that we should give honor to the Lord Now whatever commitment we make but I think for Christians we really got to understand the times that we live in.
Speaker 2:the context are totally different from the times of the Bible in terms of food wasn't an issue, it was in his pure state. So that's why people, you know, I think, kind of pushed back with me about the temple, because I probably talk more about the temple and probably from this conversation to any of the other teas. They're all important, but I focus so much on the temple because if you don't have your health, you going to exhaust all of your wealth and actually to try to get into some type of normalcy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true. Let's lean into this a little bit more, because from my background and my context, I'm also thinking through, like how many of us and when I say us, not particularly yourself, Florence, but how many people, Christians in general have a really hard time controlling their food budgets, how much they spend at the grocery store, how much they spend eating out. That is the number one category, the budget buster as we call it. So I am just curious to hear a little bit more of your thoughts. Do you think that you know? Food in a sense, has become an idol of itself.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It sure is, because even having an obsession eating healthy can be an idol as well. Right, because you can be judgmental toward others who are not practicing you know healthy eating habits and I'll say that when you think about food, you think about how food has changed over the years, and I think it's very important for Christians to understand that any time you know you have a very difficult time. The Bible talks about too that when certain things can only come out of a person or be delivered through prayer and fasting and for a lot of people, I mean they're beholding to their taste buds and not even knowing that it's an idol, because they feel as though they can't say no to it and it overwhelms them and engulfs them in terms of, you know, whatever that is right, those cookies, those cupcakes, you know all the little different things I mean, and I know people get very uncomfortable, because I was a food addict and I understand yes, I'm a thin frame, but I had many food addictions and the fact that you know you kind of have to break those.
Speaker 2:But I think food is so personal because I think for a lot of people who have maybe difficult lives, the one thing they feel they can have control over is what goes in their mouths.
Speaker 2:So that's why I think it's very difficult when people push back because they said look man, I'm honored Lord, I'm, you know, faithful to my spouse, I'm there for my kids, attend church and, you know, do volunteer work in the community and all of those things and honor the Lord, but you're going to stay away from my food. And I think for a lot of people, it's very difficult for people to give everything over to the Lord in particularly the foods that they eat. And I just think that it's no coincidence that the epidemic that we have in our health crisis or crises, is very much connected to the fact that we've been negligent in area of our temple in terms of what we put in our body and what we put our body through in terms of exercise. So you need to do both and they're equally important in terms of that mandate. So God created us to move, to eat healthy, to eat off the land, and we've gotten so far away from that and I think for a lot of Christians they're suffering unnecessarily because of that.
Speaker 1:I think Lawrence has given us a lot to wrestle with and I love you sharing your heart here, because I think you're right and it's sometimes the hardest things to hear, what we need to hear the most, and that's why, talking about food, talking about money, I think those are like the two topics that most people say are just completely avoided in church typically. Right, we'll talk about all the other sins, but we won't talk about these couple things. I want to close the loop real quick. So you talked about how the lower class typically have a scarcity mindset and you talked about how the middle class has more of that security mindset, right. What about the higher class? What's that mindset like?
Speaker 2:The lower class. Really it comes down to seniority, right, always being in control. Do they control people, sometimes, perhaps, but never leaving anything up for chance? Right, always planning, hyper-visualing. About planning, I always say you can tell a lot about a person's social class by their calendar, how far out they do plan. You know scarcity classes day by day, right? Security class, maybe it's a week, two weeks, maybe a month. But the seniority class, I mean they plan out six months a year, some, you know, even a couple of years, depending on you know how affluent they are.
Speaker 2:When you contrast how they look at their life's purpose, the scarcity class totally different in terms of that is is hidden by a veil, so to speak, shrouded in mystery. The middle class is a work in progress. I kind of know my purpose in life, but I chip away at it every time and then I'll eventually get to it and that time comes and they never do. And then it's the maturity class. It's kind of preordained from birth in terms of some sense of having a purpose. But if you look at how people spend money, how they spend their time, all of these things, you see a common thread. Now we can go in and out of social class mindset, so to speak. But a lot of us have these based on how we were reared, right, I grew up in scarcity class, my wife in security class, right, and then, obviously, then when you think about the seniority class, you come into this environment, you realize it's a totally different world.
Speaker 2:And then, more importantly, I believe that the Bible even speaks to classism. In the Bible, people say, well, give me some verses or give me some references. Well, I think, when it comes to the parable of the talents, right, you had the one talent. They buried a talent that's very common in scarcity class. They sit on their talents, right, they think well, you know what was me? I can never have success in life. You know, the two talents was kind of the middle class. And then the you know the five talents in terms of the flow class. And then, going back in the Old Testament, you have Egyptian bondages similar to scarcity class. It's amazing, when they were in the wilderness they wanted to go back.
Speaker 2:They did yeah, that they had to get the spies in the land 12 spies. Only two came back with a positive report Joshua and Caleb. I asked Christians all the time. Even pastors named me one of the 10 who came back with a negative report. I've never had a Christian who's ever been able to tell me one of the 10, even though they were leaders in the community. They didn't just get them off the street.
Speaker 2:These were people in the community but they came back and they spread that venom and the negativity and all of that, that they saw themselves as grasshoppers and all of those things, and that they were coming to inspire against Joshua and Caleb and they were ready to go back and they were wanting to kill them because they said, wait, you brought us here to set us up. No, but it was what was beholden to them. That's why they wanted to go back to and that's very, very common in trauma right Self-preservation to protect yourself, even it's the worst thing for you. And then the wilderness is the middle class.
Speaker 2:This is the middle class to go around and around and around that mountain. They keep saying the same thing.
Speaker 2:They don't want to go back to Egypt, but they don't want to go to the promised land, right, because with giant blessings come giants as well. So you're gonna deal with that. And then the promised land is really affluent, and I believe that God created us to have abundance, but not for abundance to have us right. And I don't preach a poverty gospel, I don't preach a prosperity gospel. What I am beholden to is a posterity gospel that we are the heritage of the Lord and as such we should be walking his goodness and his greatness and his grandness.
Speaker 2:And I think so many Christians live below the line because they're just content and Godliness with content in this great game. That's what scripture says. But we also know that God, right, is no respecter of persons and he's given us so much that we sometimes, particularly in America, we just are running out to clock, the shot clock or the game clock, waiting for the Lord to call us home. But if we maximize our God given potential financially, think about all the people we're able to help. Right, we set up scholarship funds so kids can go to college. Christians should do more, because this is a great opportunity and God will bless those who wanna be a blessing to the world.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think there's a fine line between being content and being complacent, cause I think more and more people they'll tell you like yeah, lawrence, I'm content, I'm good, and really truthfully, they're complacent, like they're not growing, they're not being challenged, their spiritual walk is pretty stale. I think that there's a really dangerous, like fine line that people walk between those two things. And, yes, god wants us to be content, but he also wants us to be like hungry and pursuing him constantly, and I think that's where a lot of us kind of retreat. There was a pastor in my church who calls it turtle lean up. We turtle up into our shells and we go back in and we just stay there. Like you said, we just wait for God to take us home and we just stay in our turtle shell and stay safe until that time comes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I tell Christians all the time that change should be easy and automatic for Christians. But it's not Think about that.
Speaker 2:We have the Holy spirit in us but change is very difficult and the reason why is people are very uncomfortable, right, with change, because what it requires and Jesus talked about you have to count the cost, right. But when it comes to change, you can't have a preselected budget. You just gotta know. And that's part of our faith as well. Faith is the substance of things hope for the evidence of things not yet seen. And for a lot of Christians, particularly today, right, and we live in this comfortable Christianity in America. A lot of them right that if change is not known, if they don't know the outcomes beforehand, they don't want anything to do with it.
Speaker 2:And I think the faith journey demands that we put our faith and our trust in the Lord in all things. And for a lot of people they're so comfortable or, as you say, complacent, which I wholeheartedly agree in that they use those terms in a changeably comfortable and complacent, but really is more complacent in that they are short changing themselves, society and, more importantly, you ready for this. The rewards that have their name on it in heaven that they can have once we are standing before the Lord as your judgment seat of Christ, every reward that has my name on it. I want it, which means it's gonna cost me something here. Right, heaven is already settled for it for our relationship with Christ. But when it comes to rewards, that is what we're working for right now, and that means it is going to cost us something in order for that reward to be given to us in heaven.
Speaker 1:Amen. I love that. I feel like I'm at church right now in the best way. This is so good. This is so good. So, as we're wrapping up for today, let's say there's someone listening and you've stepped on their toes. I love how you just unapologetically just come in and you say here I am, here's what I'm about and this is the message that I have. I love that so much. So let's say that there's someone listening today. You've stepped on their toes, but in a really good way, and they're starting to wonder am I complacent? Am I complacent? If I am, how do I get out of that space? How do I start leaning into more of what Lawrence is talking about and trusting God, not only with my money, but with my health and with all these other areas of my life? Where do they start? What's one small step they can take today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, when it comes to your life's purpose, right, and I always say that the purpose of life is God's gift to us. But life's purpose is our gift back to God. And life's purpose I define it as the assignment you replace on this earth to accomplish for the benefit and betterment of others and to give glory and honor to the Lord, jesus Christ. For a lot of people, courtney, they really struggle with this. They struggle with the fact that they may look at a function right, I'm a mother, I'm a father, I'm an employee, an awardee, I'm a business owner. Right, and also capacity, right, which is how you can maximize a particular skill or talent which is part of a function, and that they equate those either one of those or both of those as far as their purpose. And the problem is what happens when your kids leave the home? Right, is that really your purpose? Right? I know you say well, I'm a transition eventually to being a grandparent or whatever, but for a lot of people they've never really asked the Lord and said Lord, what is my purpose in life? Why am I here? What do you want me to do? I'm not talking about the money, I'm not talking about any of that stuff, right, because to me that's kind of immaterial. You have to settle the issue not only of lordship but, more importantly, lord, why am I here? What do you want me to do? And how can I give glory and honor to you, right? Why am I here? What do you want me to do? How can I give glory and honor to you in terms of your purpose?
Speaker 2:Because when people are talking about the purpose of money, right, people have different reasons what's the purpose of this, what's the purpose of that? But when you ask people, why are you here? Right, if I say who are you, most people are gonna tell me their name. They're not gonna tell me your purpose is. That's very revealing and I think for a lot of people, they should always be thinking about their purpose, because your purpose can sustain you even when times are tough. And when you think about your life's purpose at the front end, your legacy postscript at the back end. And I think it's very important, because a good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children, or a good woman, right, and I think it's very important for us to understand when the game sound and the whorm is over, right, we want our legacy to be paying dividends long after we're gone, but that's gonna be tied to our purpose. They're both connected to each other, right? And I always say that a life is trapped in a moment in time, but a legacy stands the test of time.
Speaker 2:So I think it's very important for us to kind of help people deal with both. Get the life purpose part right, let that drive you to your legacy postscript, and then everything in between will fall in place and the fruit of the spirit will be evident. We will have the peace the surpasses all understanding, and I think the church has to be leading people in a Christ-centered life that's full of purpose, and the purpose is tied to what the Lord has called each and every one of us to do, which is unique. We're all unique, right, because no two individuals are alike, even though they may have similar pathways in terms of their purpose.
Speaker 1:I love this. Okay, all right, listeners, you have some homework assignments. Okay, tonight, whenever you get home, I want you to journal about who am I, and I don't want you to use any titles, like Lawrence was just saying. You were you before you ever became a mom. You were you before you ever got married, before you got that job. You've been you since you existed. So who are you? And then go a step further, because that's gonna be really hard for a lot of you to answer. But go a step further. Then answer who does God say that I am? Our purpose is our identity in action. You first have to understand your identity in Christ before you can even begin the conversation of who am I and what am I here for. So that's the homework assignment for you all today. Do it slow down. Take time out of your busy life like this is worth it. It starts here. Thank you, lawrence. So much Any last words of wisdom that you wanna share with us. You've already given us so much.
Speaker 2:I love it, you know. I mean identity is who you are. Diversity is what you're about, what he has placed inside of you. I talked about the talents, and posterity is what you leave behind for others. So I thought it was great that you mentioned that, because it truly is, and I think a lot of people are struggling with their identity in today's time for a lot of reasons. And as we come up on Father's Day, we didn't even talk about that.
Speaker 2:But the father is very important. The father determines the identity of a child, the vision of a child, the sex of a child. So I think it's very important. Any identity, any diversity in terms of our talents, any posterity has to be tied to the father, and that's why Jesus called him Abba, because it's more than just a father, it's a daddy, and that we use father and daddy interchangeably in our society. But they mean two different things. One is a biological term which deals with chromosomes transfers. Any other one is a biochemical tune which deals with connection. So I think it's very important for us to be connected to our daddy.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a fatherless home. My father died when I was a teenager. I never knew him, but I think it's very important for us to be connected to our father, to our heavenly father, so that we truly understand our identity and that we appreciate the diversity, the gifts he's placed inside of us, and then also the posterity, in terms of us being children of the most high God, brothers and sisters in Christ, and our legacy there. So I think we can get all of those right the identity, the diversity and the posterity. I think he will be satisfied with us and when we stand before the Lord in the judgment seat of Christ, he will tell us well done, my good and faithful servant.
Speaker 1:Amen. Thank you so much, lawrence, and thank you all for listening. I hope this conversation has blessed you all as much as it has blessed me. Appreciate you all walking with us today. Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has blessed you, share our podcast with a friend and if you have a money question, email me at Courtney and marglicoachinggroupcom. I'm Courtney Margley and this has been the heart of money.