Do you struggle to create a plan with your giving? Do you desire to be generous, but the thought of deciding where to give your money seems too overwhelming? Has your giving routine grown a bit stale, and you want to inject some excitement back into the process?
You've come to the right place.
In this episode, Courtney interviews a young philanthropist named Kate Gardner. Kate is a follower of Christ who spends her days as a philanthropist and a community builder. At a young age, she discovered a rather unique way to approach giving. Join us as we uncover the profound spiritual journey that accompanies the stewardship of wealth and the conscious alignment of our finances with our love for the Lord.
Links from episode:
Gospel Patrons
To Tithe or Not to Tithe
Do you struggle to create a plan with your giving? Do you desire to be generous, but the thought of deciding where to give your money seems too overwhelming? Has your giving routine grown a bit stale, and you want to inject some excitement back into the process?
You've come to the right place.
In this episode, Courtney interviews a young philanthropist named Kate Gardner. Kate is a follower of Christ who spends her days as a philanthropist and a community builder. At a young age, she discovered a rather unique way to approach giving. Join us as we uncover the profound spiritual journey that accompanies the stewardship of wealth and the conscious alignment of our finances with our love for the Lord.
Links from episode:
Gospel Patrons
To Tithe or Not to Tithe
I'm Courtney Markley, and this is the Heart of Money. Talking about money can be really hard and uncomfortable, but it doesn't need to be. The problem is, we're taught to think about money in terms that are too much like science, with rules and regulations, and not enough like psychology, with emotions and nuance. Join me on my mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time. Welcome everyone to the Heart of Money podcast. I'm your host, courtney Markley, and joining me today I have a really special guest for you. Her name is Kate Garner. Welcome, kate.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, courtney, it's such a joy to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm so excited to have you. So for those of you who maybe have not heard about Kate just yet, her story actually just recently got published in a book called 31 Gospel Patrons. We have mutual friends in the Reinhardt and the Gospel Patrons team and you were one of the inheritors and the philanthropists that they actually interviewed and put your story in their book. Tell me a little bit about that process and what was that like for you.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you so much and again, it is just such a joy and honor to be here and I have been so encouraged by community around generosity for many years now. My story with Gospel Patrons actually goes back probably about six, seven years ago. Now it's just part of my longer story, but it was such a gift to answer your question, to work on that piece with the Gospel Patrons team, with the Reinhardt, so I know have been recent guests on the Heart of Money podcast as well, and I loved putting that article together and getting to share some of these pieces that have made generosity such a huge part of my life. So I haven't been in a book before, I don't think. So that was a total gift and something I'm enjoying sharing as well.
Speaker 1:I love it. I like who you added. I don't think Like maybe somewhere out there people are writing about us and putting us in books. We just don't know about it, Right?
Speaker 2:So true, so true.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, I'm so glad that you're here. I know that our audience is really going to be blessed by you, not only your story and everything that God's doing in you, but just your spirit, your joyfulness, your passion for the Lord. I know that that is going to be a real blessing to the folks listening today, so I'm so glad to have you here. So yes, if you didn't pick up on it yet, kate is an inheritor. She's a philanthropist, but you're also a community builder and you do a ton of work in women's ministry and you just have this heart to serve the Lord wherever he places you. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes. I enjoy wearing many hats in my life and getting to talk with lots of different types of people and the journeys they're on.
Speaker 1:That's so good, and what we're going to be talking about today specifically is helping people get a vision for their giving. So you do a lot of I always want to use the word coaching and educating and encouraging people in this space. You actually work with a ton of next gen folks who are also coming into a similar role that you feel right now of all right, we have these resources, now what do we do with them? And that can feel very daunting, whether you have a lot or whether you have a little, whatever surplus a God has given you to say, hey, I want you to steward these resources for my glory and you get to be a co-laborer with me, right, this co-creator and building the kingdom One. How exciting is that?
Speaker 1:But also, for some, it can be a little debilitating to say there are so many options out there, there are so many places where you can put your money, your time, your resources. So we're going to dive into that a bit today of how do we get a bigger vision for our giving and make it something that we are really excited to do and it feels like something that we're partnering with Christ in doing so. If you would, kate, I'm going to give you the floor a little bit, share a little bit about your story, because at 21, you became an inheritor, yes, and then you had this big decision to make of all right now, what, what do I do with this? And so please walk us through that process a bit. How did you process this?
Speaker 2:Yes, great question and I am so grateful for a lot of the pieces of how my story had already come together by the time I turned 21 and received this gift. So, to even back up a bit more, I've been really blessed in my life by legacies and lineages in multiple areas, one of which, and most importantly in a sense, being faith and many sides of my family, as well as extended community in Washington DC, where I'm from, who took me under their wing in terms of my walk with Jesus and how to really have that be the foundation of my decision-making and my values. And so by the time I got to college, I was ready to focus on that, and even though I went to a very secular school, I was able to find incredible Christian community and grow very deeply in my sense of being set apart by God's grace for his purposes. And then, on top of that, in terms of the legacy that I was grateful to inherit, beyond just physical resources as well, I also had a couple generations of business that had gone before me, in terms of not only the success that both sides of my moms and dad's family had accrued, but also the morality and character that they walked in and demonstrated with their lives and the values around generosity that were definitely imparted to me at an early age. I'll never forget sitting in church growing up and having my parents hand me money that I then got to, in a sense, make a little decision to put it myself, you know, as a seven-year-old into the offering basket. And looking back now I have really seen that memory is almost prophetic or really profound for my life and where things have gone so fast forward now to 21.
Speaker 2:I received as a choice from my parents a stock portfolio that they had cultivated on my behalf since my birth, and a couple aspects of that that were deeply meaningful to me. Beyond, again, just the resources were the way they went about that and this sense of them saying we are giving this to you because we trust you, we believe in you, we want you to be able to run with your dreams, and I've always looked back on that too as almost a little bit in a kind of unique way, a reflection of the gospel in that sense that we believe, theologically speaking, that Christ has given us the kingdom that you know we have been blessed, as Ephesians 1, I think, says with every spiritual blessing in Christ Jesus, and so there's this sense of inheritance that is our portion out of our faith, and so the way my parents modeled that feeling for me in a way that has now made me very passionate about talking about inheritance with other families, because I think that there are ways that multi-generational legacy can be passed down that truly can feel empowering, as it did for me. I think it would have been different if I had felt like my parents had come in with a lot of fear or control, but because their posture was really one of freedom and joy. I think that was a lot of why generosity was able to feel like such an exciting area for me, because it was something again that I got to choose myself, although of course, my story is one of inheriting, but I still had that very profound sense of agency that this was mine to lean into and make the choices myself.
Speaker 2:So, with that being said, to get into the story, I really pretty radically felt, starting again at that age, at the end of my undergraduate years in college, that I was now on a journey of learning how to integrate my faith, walk with the Lord, which again had really become such a center for me in college, especially as my own faith like never before and now having these resources and really believing. In some senses, yes, they were from my parents, but in perhaps an even greater sense, they were from the Lord. And so just this big question and this adventure I've been on now in my 20s, of how does that play out, what are the steps I'm going to take, and all that's come from that.
Speaker 1:Wow, thank you so much for sharing all of this, kate. I'm going to start unpacking a few things that you said that I really want to just kind of hold the magnifying glass up to a little bit. One of the first things that you spoke about was how your parents and your family really modeled the idea of having a Christ centered life and letting that, first and foremost, influence how you made decisions right. Yes, that's huge. That's huge because I find oftentimes, as parents, people wonder like how do I start teaching my kids how to behave with money and do it in a responsible way and do it in a way that honors the Lord? And I honestly think that's the very first step. The first step really has nothing to do with money itself, but more we're going to cultivate a lifestyle and a family environment where we're just constantly leaning into the Lord and starting there.
Speaker 1:The next thing that you said I actually wrote this down as you were talking you said that your parents gave you this money right, they passed it on and they said it's because we trust you, we believe in you and essentially, you know, go do the thing that you were called to do. And for some people listening obviously not everyone listening has inherited wealth in the same way. However, I want to start drawing the connection. I believe this is exactly the opportunity we get every single week, every single month that we receive any type of income. It's really an opportunity. And God's saying I trust you, I believe in you.
Speaker 1:Now go do the things that I'm calling you to do, and I think how powerful that is. First of all, that your parents spoke that into you, but even for other folks of your heavenly father speaking that into you. I trust you, I believe in you. Go do the thing that I called you to do. Right, and there is a lot of freedom in that. Absolutely there's a lot of freedom in that. And joy, right. They weren't giving it to you begrudgingly like God, don't screw it up, kate. It wasn't that you know that probably would have made you pause it before you accepted that one Right Like oh, do we really want this?
Speaker 1:Is this going to be a blessing, but in the same way, there's that freedom and that joy that's coming as the money's being passed from one hand to another. Again, I think we all experiences in one way or another of God really experiencing that freedom and that joy of allowing us to partner with him and using his resources to bless other people. And how cool is that.
Speaker 2:Right, thank you. Yes, absolutely. And I'm so glad that you expanded the vision because I absolutely feel that way of really coming back to that heart posture of saying, lord, number one, everything is yours, whatever the source, whatever the journey looks like. And number two, there is that blessing from the Heavenly Father of you are my child. Walk in this, you know like, see this as an adventure, as an opportunity, as something that we are called to co-labor with him as good stewards of the kingdom. So I absolutely have sought to continue to walk in that and just love trying to cast vision for anyone to feel that way.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, because when you take that heart posture, I mean you can hear it in your voice and you can see it on your face although no one else can see your face, I can see it, you can see it, you can hear it in your voice of just the joy that comes from that heart posture in that place and having that type of intimacy and that relationship with your Heavenly Father. I think for a lot of people, even myself included, this is a good opportunity to kind of reexamine. You know, how do I think God really talks to me, what does he say when he's handing me things? Because a lot of times for myself specifically, I think a lot of listeners will resonate with this it's almost like this is a test, don't mess it up versus this is going to be a fun adventure, let's go Right, like, let's go have fun.
Speaker 1:You know so to me it kind of magnifies and highlights well, how are you viewing your Heavenly Father? Are you looking at him as this, more like strict, disciplinarian? Are you looking at him as this one who just has all this love and freedom and joy that he's pouring into you and just wants you to go? Reflect that image to other people. So you're already speaking to my heart. So thanks, girl, thank you for that.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, thank you, baby, say all of that as well, yes, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you did something pretty unique. I haven't heard a lot of people take this approach. When I have money that I want to give, I feel God calling me to give again. Whether it's big or small, it doesn't really matter, right, it's just are we walking in obedience? So you felt a call on your heart to use this money, to steward it. But how did you go about deciding where to put that money, because there are so many options available to you? How did you know?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it's been such a journey and I'll continue the narrative. So the next step after that initial inheritance gift was actually a real conviction, biblically and through a couple voices of spiritual authority in my life, to tide the inheritance, which I think people more generally associate tithing with income, which I think it makes a ton of sense. But I have heard teaching which I think I agree with, that you tide whatever you're given, whatever comes into your account. So all of a sudden, this took me a couple years to kind of really feel into it and actively on, but I felt this conviction in my spirit that I needed to give a larger amount of money away as a tithe to the Lord, as kind of the first big step that I took with it. And so with that I did some more research and came across a framework that I now really love sharing with people about generosity, decision making, and I'll go on to share a bit later. I think about where I've landed now, because this early moment for me giving was kind of a one off. So I now have a more sustainable, shall I say, giving engine that I've come to through some other conclusions about my calling and vision as a giver. But that initial step.
Speaker 2:I looked at some scriptures and specifically there's a couple in Deuteronomy 14, as well as throughout the Bible also. Numbers 18 is another one of the main chapters. I think of not only one tide, which people often call the Levitical Tithe, or the traditional one that we know, obviously, as New Testament believers would give to our pastors or our spiritual leaders, but that there are actually three tithes potentially represented in the Old Testament as the model of what giving unto the Lord looks like, in that kind of baseline way. And so I felt that this was the past for me and what was really fun was basically taking those verse 21 years of my life as this kind of place for me to dream about how these three tithes would be worked out. So, with that being said, that first tide again, which people do often call the priestly tithe, I saw as how do I take a certain portion of this money and give to the people throughout my life who have operated as spiritual authorities, and you know, so that took me back to early pastors, you know growing up college ministers who meant a lot to me. So that was the first category.
Speaker 2:The second category was about charity and some people call this the mercy tithe and that one was more about the poor more broadly, so those who were in difficult circumstances. Obviously I'm sure many of us could think of many nonprofits in our cities and other places that would kind of be in that bucket of philanthropy. And one thing I learned about this tithe out of the Old Testament that was fascinating was, it seems, that that tithe was actually primarily supposed to be for people in their own city, meaning that if all the Israelites fulfilled that type, every city would be taken care of as a unit almost. It was like this sense of please care for your own people, your own area, which I think is just a cool mindset of stewardship in general. So for me I did think a lot about organizations that I knew about in my hometown that were doing great work amidst the inner city, youth development areas, and I definitely did some international causes as well, some other charities perhaps that my family supported, that I trusted and I knew, all with that mindset of this is specifically for the poor as an act of compassion.
Speaker 2:And then, lastly, the final type reference is called the festival time, and that is actually another really fascinating area to think through in our modern age as well, because the festival tide was specifically supposed to be for the ancient Israelites, of course, grain, or you know, because before we had all of our cash money in the modern world and the Israelites would take that grain and they would consume it in order to fulfill the festivals that the Lord had put in his word. So the nuance about this one was that the people giving the tithe actually also consumed the tithe themselves, but it was all in order to very specifically fulfill what God had ordained for them to celebrate about himself. And then they also were called to use the festival time to support the Levites of the land to also celebrate the festival. So the festival time is one that I got to think about creatively of okay, how would I almost consume, quote, unquote, this type myself, but do so in order to celebrate God's work in my life? And so I thought about this one and this is an ongoing area for me almost to kind of, in a sense, fund myself for travels or different activities that would allow me to participate in God's work, so that also I wasn't just purely writing checks as I enjoyed doing this well, but getting to feel like I'm really there with those serving the Lord in a generous way.
Speaker 2:So, with that being said, I made this massive spreadsheet in my early 20s and I gave the gifts and I really obviously tried to pray about amounts and all the different organizations, and what started to happen in that season for me around 23 years old, I think was a joy. This is really when that sense of joy started arising around giving more than ever before, because I started to give these checks, some of which I did anonymously, some of which I actually especially the larger checks called the organizations or the friends I knew involved and offered to make them matching grants, and that was really fun, because then we could even try to see that number doubled, or something like that, on behalf of the organization. So, all that being said, the amount of fulfillment, almost giddiness, that I got from doing this was so profound for me. And then, on top of that, the stories that I started to hear back from the people and organizations I was able to give to, as I say, like wrecked me, like deeply touched my spirit I'll never forget. My favorite one was actually an organization that I had traveled with in years past and had meant a lot to me and kind of given to me and my spiritual journey and one of the leaders called me and he was like Kate, how are you, first off, how are you able to give this gift? Like what? Where's this coming from? So I got to share a little bit of my story with the inheritance. But also he said, kate, you had no idea, but this exact amount you're giving is the amount we need to, in effect, save this ministry in a really bad month we've had I think it was like the middle of the summer, which can be a downtime of giving in general and that right there, like, has marked my life the idea that, completely, completely beyond my control of you know, when I was planning to give, or how much to give, that God, in a sense, I felt, was using me to, in essence, you know, cause a ministry that had deeply touched me to go on in existence and capacity.
Speaker 2:I was sold.
Speaker 2:I was like this is what I want to do.
Speaker 2:You know, there's so much in this calling to give that I see the Lord and I think, you know, sometimes, with people having vision for generosity, it can feel very hidden and very much almost like there's a question of Lord. Does this really matter? Like is this an important work, and I think that what I've been able to walk in in my twenties has just demonstrated that to me over and over. That, yes, it does, yes it is, and obviously it doesn't always come with glamorous stories of exact amounts and things like that, but just that, the feeling, honestly, of getting to surrender, getting to lay down something quote unquote of mine, although of course it's the Lord's but with this feeling deep in my spirit, of joy again, of wow, like this is going to go forth and touch so many lives, so far beyond maybe what I could even do with my own hands or with my own, you know, efforts, but these resources can really be a multiplying force for the kingdom. So that was one of the first moments that's really set me up with Shiojakshri Amon now.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, thank you so so much. All right, let me unpack this a little bit more for people because I want to make sure they heard all the good nuggets and bits of this story here. So, essentially, you receive the inheritance. You're praying about what to do, you're receiving counsel. Someone mentions tithing right, which, for someone listening, maybe you haven't heard the word tithe before. That goes back to the Old Testament and the Bible and the ancient Israelites and their call to give 10% of what they own back to the Lord. Someone recently I was at a conference with a bunch of stewardship pastors and they say no, no, we always say that wrong. We're not giving a tithe, we're returning a tithe.
Speaker 2:I said oh, that's an interesting way to think about it right, yeah, yeah, you don't give it, we return it.
Speaker 1:So good. And back then, you know, we think about the one tithe, like you mentioned, the liturgical tithe which was the 10% that went to the pastors and the churches, which I know they weren't called pastors and churches back then, but you get where I'm going. That was the first 10%. Then there was 10% that went to the poor and then there was another 10% that just went to parties, which I personally love Like I want to start, you know taking up a tithe for parties, I think that's just how fun, right?
Speaker 1:So two of the tithes the liturgical tithe and then the one for the festivals. That was ongoing, that happened every year, and then the tithe for the poor went on every three years. So, on average, the ancient Israelite they didn't give 10% of their income, they actually gave 23% of their income because they gave three separate tithes, right? So that kind of is mind blowing for a lot of people. To wait a minute, what 23%? And for some, again, immediate guilt Like, oh my goodness, how am I ever going to get there? But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about you saw this framework, you saw it written out on scripture and you said, well, huh, I wonder what that would look like if I started applying these things to my life. I'm just like, let's try it. I wonder what this would be. And you started experiencing all of this joy and you started to see God moving in ways that were completely beyond your control. Case in point, with the story you just shared about, you had no idea that when you gave that check right, that that was what was going to be happening, and yet that's what God was doing, and so it's a really wonderful framework for people to think about. Okay, how can I give you know to my local church different ministers who have spoken into your life, how can I help the poor right here in my community, right, taking care of our own people? And then, lastly, you know what are some ways that I can participate?
Speaker 1:We don't necessarily, you know, depending on what culture you're coming from. I suppose we don't always have like these big, massive parties that we set aside tons and tons of money for. But I like how you reframed it of. Well, how can I participate with God and do something and, you know, have it be celebratory, right? How can I participate in these things? And so you set aside for missions and all these things. So tell me more about how did you figure out. So you have the framework now, which I'm obsessed with and I can't wait to, you know, have a talk with my husband, but you have the framework. So now, how do you figure out what is your specific calling? Because, again, even with that, there are still many places where you could decide to put that money. So how did you figure out your specific calling and the vision as a giver?
Speaker 2:Yes, great question To continue the story. Basically, after those larger gifts and you know how that experience of tithing was for me I basically as I was saying in these themes, you know just felt this compelling joyful desire to keep leaning into generosity and think through okay, exactly what you're saying. How will this become a sustainable yearly? Obviously, you know part of my life and with that there was another, as I like to call them, kind of encounter with God. I felt that that really has kind of now given me exactly what you're saying, this directive and almost kind of mission statement for my giving. And, funny enough, it came out of a quote by an author named Frederick Beekner, and I just remember encountering this and really feeling like this was going to be a next step for me. So my paraphrase of this quote is that your calling, or my calling, is where your greatest joy meets the world's deepest need, and I really love that as a framework, right. That's why I love to share this with people who want to grow in their giving, because I think it speaks to these multiple parts, right, this kind of larger context of what we are called to as givers, which is to both do the shall I say internal work of saying, ok, yeah, where is that joy and where does that flow out of me toward, like you're saying too, with the question, you know, what is it that I can uniquely or I kind of want to sew into? You know, are there specific areas like youth development again, or anti-trafficking, or different areas that just excite my heart, and obviously out of a place of alignment with scripture, with the work that God is already doing, probably in various organizations and parts of the world? So that's why I come back to so often this word joy, because I do think it's helpful to kind of anchor it in that internal place with God of you know, how do I really feel that connection with him in this vision, and then so my calling being my greatest joy, meeting the world's deepest need, and so, again, that kind of now more externally focused lens of where is it that there is lack, where is it that there is opportunity in the world around me? And so it's obviously, again, a very expansive framework.
Speaker 2:But I really had to sit with it. And you know something else I really encourage people to do with generosity decision making is to give themselves time. You know, again, for me it was that kind of step of tiding. Initially that did feel like an act of obedience. And off their Nandrandi Alcord I heard comparison tiding to almost like training wheels on a bike, where you more kind of do something out of this feeling of just learning, you know, and just like getting out there even if you're falling or you don't really know what you're doing. But again then as you learn to use the bike, then there is more of that kind of creativity of how to drive it and more capacity of where to go. So, with that being said, I thought this quote through and I came up with this idea just out of again, out of prayer, out of time, that my joy was encouragement, that that is so often what I love to try to bring to the body of Christ in many ways, and that the world's safest needs was missions and the expansion of the gospel.
Speaker 2:And that came out of, again, a lot of theological study and reflection for me. So I came to this very specific conclusion that my calling as a giver was to encourage missionaries. And I'll also reference briefly I really was blessed actually to reference again gospel patrons by that ministry and the season, my life as well. Again, this is probably around 24, 25 years old I read the original gospel patrons book and I'll never forget.
Speaker 2:I was sitting in a cab in New York City, funny enough, listening to the audio book and it hit me. I was like you know what Generosity can actually be a vocation in my life? I think something that the Reinhardt's incredible material speaks to is almost an instance of validation that people who want to focus on giving can as almost again, a real godly call. And it's really amazing the historical examples they give in the first book called Gospel Patrons. That shows that throughout history that this is really something that people have done and has made significant impact. So, all that being said, bringing together the gospel patrons kind of in a sense, like platform that I felt like I could lean into, and then my Frederick Beekner quote about joy and need, and then my Clondon encourage missionaries.
Speaker 2:I went on a journey to get to the more practical side of this story that led me to build a network of missionaries that I could partner with and, yet again, what I love in telling the story is the amount of joy I felt in doing this. But I literally went on to cold call, I think, about 20 to 30 missions agencies that I just found through other networks and felt like I grew theologically and literally got on the phone and told them that I was a giver and that I wanted to support some of their teams and ask them to recommend teams to me based on a couple more criteria I thought of. And what I so had so much fun with in this is that it was kind of and many of them said this like this is the opposite conversation that they were used to having, which was, you know, the missionaries like reaching out, but I, as a giver again, part of what gets me so fired up about talking now about generosity is that we can be proactive. We feel called to be, that we can be the ones that we don't just have to be back to your great language around decision making purely responsive to other organizations reaching out or other people just in our network, but again in my story, with this kind of vocational sense, of wanting to focus on philanthropy. I went for it in terms of having this generosity mission statement and then reaching out to all these different mission agencies, and then I ended up getting paired with about 60 mission teams around the world, and so I built this whole family, I think, in 20 to 30 nations, and then I decided to not only support them in a small way financially, given the number of teams I decided to walk with, but also to connect with them relationally. So I actually had video calls with them, even in different nations around the world.
Speaker 2:Back in this was in 2019, when I was really focused on this and then to check in with them, to pray for them, even just on calls, and then also to pray personally for them.
Speaker 2:So I talked about a three prong support approach that I wanted to take as a giver I wanted to give financially, I wanted to give relationally and I wanted to give spiritually in terms of prayer.
Speaker 2:So that is basically the platform that I established years ago now of what I really wanted to do, and it's continued to evolve in many directions and there are many other parts of the story now, but that's. That is kind of the story I love to share with people about how I felt personally led to really hone in on this area of generosity decision making again. Not to primarily even take a stance of oh you know, I'm just reacting to people asking me for money, but really having this compelling statement that I felt in my spirit was my calling as a giver, and so I was able to run with that and then basically in a sense, build a career of checking in with missionaries for a very intensive season of my life, having almost 10 video calls a day on average to just check in and know that that money was going out and knowing that I was getting to really stand with these teams who were serving the Lord around the world.
Speaker 2:So I know that's kind of a multifaceted story there, but hopefully that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Oh, it does Absolutely, and I love this piece that you've highlighted in your story of taking a very proactive approach to your giving, versus reactive, and I think that's probably the opposite of what most of us are used to doing. It's more of a well, I'll wait to see what needs come up, or I'll wait to see what I'm asked for and then I'll pray about it. I'll try to figure out if it's something I'm supposed to give to or not, but I like how you figured this piece out of what's my specific calling the thing that gets me fired up. Right, because I can tell as you're talking, you're getting more and more fired up right here, I love this stuff.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. What fires you up. Plus, where is the big need and right, where are the gaps? And then let's go there right. And so I love this proactive approach and the fact that you cold called a bunch missionaries and hey, can I give you money. It is amazing. Again, that gives me some encouragement kind of reframes how you think about traditional giving, because normally we are on the receiving and someone's giving us an ask, versus we're going out and asking.
Speaker 1:So I really want to encourage people to take more of an ownership role in your giving and go to God in prayer. You've mentioned this a few times, but I really want to make sure we highlight this piece about your story is that you really prioritize prayer throughout your day and your walk with the Lord. Tell me if I'm wrong here over seven, but it sounds like you pray quite a bit and quite often and really have cultivated that relationship of prayer, and so that's the place where you're coming from. So it's not a I'm just going to make a decision here or there on the fly and try to figure things out. So I'm going to go to God in prayer and then, whatever he asked me to do, I'm going to respond in obedience and be proactive about it.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, that's definitely the goal and I really appreciate you saying that because I do feel like I've seen those paired very well throughout my life and it's actually hit me more recently too, almost this interesting reflection that prayer in a sense occurs to me is almost a form of generosity, because you're giving and again, with just praying, not a physical research, but you're giving your time, you're giving your attention toward asking the Lord for something, but it is this act of pouring out. And another thing I think in a really powerful way unites giving and prayer, is the hiddenness of both. You know, and there's scripture obviously makes it clear that there is a call. I think the three that Jesus references in the Gospels are giving, fasting and prayer that there is actually a role for those things to be between you and God. And so I have really been thankful that those things have paired really well in my life, given my personal passion and love of even just like praying for people as a kind of a part of my ministry and my day.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate you highlighting that, because I think that that is something that I love to kind of cast vision for people is to see those different aspects of their life is coming together and, again, what I always love to come back to that, even though you know praying, giving, these can feel like areas of sacrifice, areas being spent for the Lord that you know. Basically, my testimony has become very much that there's nothing I would rather do Like. This is the life I'm so blessed to live, is my best attempt at feeling the closest to the Lord, given the resources he's put in my life, and I don't need a title, I don't need to have this platform Now. Some are called to that and I'm here to support those people, but the amount again, a fulfillment that I feel and getting to in this season especially, play those roles of giving and praying and combining the two is like the sense, as you're saying, to have God's presence that comes in those focuses. I wouldn't trade for anything, so I'm so glad we can talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, I love it. I love your heart for the Lord. It really just, it just spills over. It really does.
Speaker 1:It really does, so it's encouraging to hear you, yes, and I hope all you guys listening are encouraged to, because, again I want to highlight, it doesn't matter how much you have, and it's funny. We typically have the tendency to do this comparison game and say, oh, I don't have, you know, as much as so-and-so, or you know, we look at potentially what we lack versus what we have. So I really want to reframe that for a lot of folks of remember to look at what you have, because I have never come across someone yet and I've coached quite a few people and quite a wide income spectrum and no one has ever self identified as being wealthy or really having an abundance, no matter how much they have, which is really interesting. And so I just want to encourage all of our listeners not to look at your lack but really to look at the abundance that God's put in your hand and then pray through. Okay, how can I combine prayer and giving to experience joy?
Speaker 1:Because that's really what it's all about is cultivating that relationship with God, and I believe it's a calling that he has for each of us.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and I'm so glad again, courtney, that you're highlighting that, because obviously I even want to make sure to bring in the scriptures that you know Jesus, again in the Gospels, highlights that you know the Pharisees, the leaders, can give lavish gifts, you know, to the temple, but it, of course, is the story of the widow's might and that the costliness of the gift that I think Jesus says you know she's the one who gave more who will be rewarded more in a sense, and so I think exactly what you're saying, you know that that is the metric that is so important to hold on to.
Speaker 2:That it's not about, you know, the things that we get to do, necessarily on a bigger scale, though, of course, if that is your story, with resources, I do think there needs to be that kind of thoughtfulness to who much is given, much is required, type of thinking, but that the things that God really evaluates us for and the message we all need to walk in is what is that costliness actually? You know, to me in the choice that I'm making, in my giving and, yeah, I think for me it's actually looked like other areas of my life, like I've laid down, having a more quote, unquote successful career, you know, with my degree and other things and who knows what's in the future, obviously. But you know, in this season the costliness of my obedience has actually felt like laying down these kind of greater titles or even more money that I could have tried to accrue, but say, you know what, like this is the hidden offering that I want to give.
Speaker 2:And then, obviously, I do love sharing about it because I want to cast vision. But thank you for saying that, because that is totally my heart is that people would feel that that it's not even about the framework, it's not even about, like, that I gave correctly or I figured it out. You know what is that sense? Going back to prayer, that it really is the Lord who is leading me in this and I feel it. I feel how this focus on giving is an offering and it is, you know, this place of intimacy again that I want to cultivate with the Lord.
Speaker 1:I love it, I really do, cause that's what it's about. It's about the intimacy with the Lord. Like I said, it's not about checking this box or making sure we're doing this ride or whatever it is, but again, it's just your heavenly Father saying I trust you, I believe in you, now go do the thing, right. Yeah, that's really what it's all about. I trust you, I believe in you, now go do it. Mm, hmm, right, totally. Yes, yes, I so appreciate that. I really do.
Speaker 1:And the gentle way that you highlight the costliness of the gift, right, sometimes it feels very uncomfortable or it feels like it's costiness a lot. And I'm curious, as we're wrapping up for today, what's the word of encouragement that you can pass on, if you would the last piece of someone who's hearing your story and they're hearing how God's moving in your life, clearly, and they say I want to do this too, but maybe I'm afraid, or maybe I'm worried. You know, maybe what if I give and then I need it, that I don't have enough? You know all of these different what ifs, right, or what are the people going to think about me If I do start writing all these big checks? They might look at me differently, right, there's all these different things that people could be thinking Mm, hmm, how would you speak to them? What's the word of encouragement you could give?
Speaker 2:I always just love coming back to the language of it's worth it. I think it's hard to see that sometimes until you do it, and so I might kind of leave people with that phrase, you know. Back to one of our main encouragements today of go for it. You know, write the check. You know, go on the mission trip, come up with a vision statement for your generosity.
Speaker 2:I think that in my story, as I've hopefully shared here, I have the sense that the Lord honors action and that's obviously paired with, as we're saying, a ton of time waiting on the Lord, praying, not feeling like there's pressure or burden Cause. I think that there can be kind of a temptation that way to guilt. Right, I'm saying I have to give because unworthy, and who am I to have these resources? And those are real questions that I think we all need to work through on some levels. But again, reframing it as saying you know what this is an opportunity to really, in a sense you know to use a funny phrase put my money where my mouth is, to say, with my choices around generosity, I'm going to live it, I'm going to attempt to really, you know, give this to the Lord, and I just come back to that language over and over.
Speaker 2:It's worth it. It's worth it for the amount of joy that I feel. It's worth it for the belief in eternal reward that I think scripture shows us that you know we will be given back, that there's not ever a promise of a one to one, but I can definitely testify in my own life I've seen the Lord multiply my own resources and even just give me a contentment in the walk. I'm on that. I actually feel like one of the greatest gifts in my own journey is a real detachment from money or feeling like I'm driven toward more money, which is always a human temptation, of course. But I think this sense I always love that scripture in Philippians that I've learned to be content in any circumstance, I've learned how to abound and I've learned how to be in lack, that I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Speaker 2:So I think just hopefully an encouragement that this is fun, that as you're trying to walk with the Holy Spirit you might feel like you get it wrong, but on some level I don't think you can, because if you're doing it out of that place of intimacy with Christ and out of that deeply felt sense of his presence, that he sees, and that you're going to look back and say that was such a wild ride with the Lord, but I did it, I lived it out, and that you will have that peace, that that is your testimony and I'm sure you'll probably inspire a lot of others to come with you on the journey of generosity, so, and to do things in community.
Speaker 2:I guess maybe last thing I'll say is not to be afraid to make it all about your solo journey as well. I think that's one of the most recent conclusions I've come to in my now late 20s is this sense of hey, yes, it's my obedience, but it's also this shared role again to be gospel patrons of the kingdom, so to have fun with it. I guess is maybe a summary of a lot of these pieces.
Speaker 1:Oh man, thank you so so much. There's so many good nuggets in here. There really are. So I just know that this is going to bless a ton of people and just start getting them to think a bit bigger and give them some kind of framework, and we'll wrap up today bringing back something you said earlier. Is, you know, putting on the train wheels a bit like it's okay. If this is the first time that you're stepping out and giving, it's okay for it to be a bit clunky.
Speaker 1:It's okay for it to be like am I doing this right? Is this how it's supposed to be? You know and remember that Kay is now sharing her testimony after doing this for years. You've been pursuing this now for many years, and so it's not something that you just started last week or last year, and so remember that this is absolutely a journey. I know that's a little cliche, but it is. It's a journey. It's not a one time event.
Speaker 1:So continue just leaning into the Lord, continue cultivating that prayer, continue asking you know God, where are you leading me? Where can I be more proactive and try some of the things that Kay is talking about? I think it will be really, really fun and beneficial. And once you all start doing this, please message us so that we can hear your stories, because I would love to hear how God's working in more people's lives. So thank you all so much. Thank you, kay, for coming and sharing your wisdom and your heart for the Lord and the passion that you have for giving. I mean, it is truly contagious and I say that in the best way possible because you know most people don't want to be contagious but truly your love for the Lord is really inspiring. So thank you so much for being here with us.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for having me, Courtney, and truly I feel so blessed getting to be here and testify and just know that you have cultivated a whole network and community of people who care about these things and want to integrate their finances with their faith. So I just honor you so much and I'm so grateful To be in community with you all as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, the feeling is mutual. Y'all don't forget to look up 31 Gospel patrons, read Kate's story and also, in case anyone is curious to learn more about the three ties that we're talking about, I will put a link to an article that I wrote a few years ago that goes through this in a bit more detail, so you guys can read through it and also see more scripture references, and you guys can go and study it and grow from it too. So thank you again, everyone. Have a great day. Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has blessed you, share our podcast with a friend and if you have a money question, email me at Courtney and marglicoachinggroupcom. I'm Courtney Margley and this has been the Heart of Money.