The Heart of Money
Join financial coach, Christ follower, and owner of the Markley Coaching Group, Courtney Markley as she takes on tough money questions and delivers actionable guidance. Courtney's gentle but straightforward approach creates a safe, nonjudgmental space for people to talk about their money challenges. After coaching for several years, Courtney understands that money stress is usually a symptom of a deeper problem. Her approach to money will expand your understanding of how to succeed financially. You will gain tools needed to improve your money mindset while becoming someone who can have deeper, Christ-centered money discussions. Join Courtney in her mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time.
The Heart of Money
Discipling through the Great Wealth Transfer with Kate Gardner
Struggling with the idea of how to pass on your wealth to your children? In this episode we welcome back the ever-insightful Kate Gardner, a young inheritor with a powerful voice in shaping the next generation of stewards.
This conversation is a masterclass in the delicate art of family stewardship, where love, shared values, and communication take center stage. We share stories and strategies for involving the next generation in wealth decisions, considering their aspirations and encouraging their agency. From the unique challenges they face to the "burden of blessing," we take an honest look at the lives of inheritors, aiming to support them and maintaining people as the true treasure in the Great Wealth Transfer.
Whether you're a wealth holder, an inheritor, or an advisor, this episode is a goldmine of insights for nurturing financially savvy, compassionate, and responsible stewards of wealth. Join us for a heartfelt journey through the heart of money.
Links from episode:
Connect: MagnifyGeneration.com
Listen: Ascendants Podcast
Go to: markleycoachinggroup.com to see available Bible studies, courses, or apply for 1-1 coaching.
I'm Courtney Markley and this is the Heart of Money. Talking about money can be really hard and uncomfortable, but it doesn't need to be. The problem is, we're taught to think about money in terms that are too much like science, with rules and regulations, and not enough like psychology, with emotions and nuance. Join me on my mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Heart of Money podcast. I'm your host, courtney Markley, and we have a return guest today. We have Kate Garner coming back.
Speaker 2:Welcome, kate, thank you so much, courtney, it's such a joy to be back.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm so thrilled. You's such a joy to be back. Yes, I'm so thrilled. You're such a friend to the Heart of Money podcast and to myself, so I'm so glad that you're here. So last time you were on, we talked specifically about your personal journey to making this transition into philanthropy and you gave us this beautiful vision for giving. So if any of you listening you're wondering okay, I know I've been called to give, I have the resources, I'm holding them in my hand, what am I supposed to do with them? Go back and listen to Kate's first interview. She gives us a really beautiful insight into God's word and how you can start casting that vision for giving.
Speaker 1:But today we're going to lean into a slightly different conversation. So, kate, you are approaching 30. I think you're okay if I say that. Right, Okay, good, you are approaching 30 and you have really beautifully just been a wonderful leader in this space of how do the next generation, how do they handle their money and how does this wealth transfer work?
Speaker 1:And we have a lot of people coming to us who have this question of I'm nearing retirement, my children are in their 20s or 30s, maybe their 40s. How do we start transferring this wealth down to the next generation. How do we do it? In a way that we're discipling them, we're empowering them, but we're also being good stewards and we're being wise throughout the entire process. This is a big burden that I find a lot of the older generations are currently carrying. They're not sure what to do. So I'm so glad that we have someone who's already walking in this and you have a great community who has also been just being great leaders and showing us, okay, this is what it could look like for you.
Speaker 1:Here are the steps that we're taking, and not only are you walking this out, kate, in your life, but now you've turned around and you've started helping other people your age, and I love how you shared with me, moments before we got on that, the first piece of your story. You know it was you really finding your roots right, Finding your voice in this philanthropic space, and one of the first areas that you looked into was serving missionaries right, and you were very proactive about it. Again, go back and listen to Kate's story if you haven't heard, but she was very proactive in seeking out these missionaries to serve them. And now you've started to come into this space where you're recognizing that God's actually calling you to be a missionary and to serve people who are in a similar life space as you. So tell us a little bit more, kate. How are you stepping into this role more fully?
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, courtney, and so appreciate your words and having me back on for a part two again. And yes, in a quick summary too, just for anyone who might not have listened to the first podcast yet. My background was in generational legacy of both spiritual and financial blessing, and then, at 21, my parents gave me access to my own portfolio as an early inheritance that I then went on to focus on philanthropy with and through, and then exactly what you're leading into, to continue the story Starting around, probably when I was 24, 25 or so, I began to really realize that what I'd done in giving also in my living expenses. Another piece of the story was that I actually went on a journey of hiring my own financial advisor and that was a huge step for me and I know obviously we probably have many listening right now yes, and I was really grateful for that opportunity. I think I interviewed about eight firms and basically by the time I hired a multifamily office that I had actually been mentored by one of the founders, which was such a gift in my early 20s as well, I felt very stable. So, basically, through my vision for giving, I knew what I was doing as a philanthropist. I had my 60 missionary teams. I had prayer calls with them set up to check in and really try to be involved in their daily lives, and then I also had my daily expenses, my long-term planning pretty set.
Speaker 2:So then the question became, as I think many, as you were saying, even of the older generation, start thinking about where do I go from here?
Speaker 2:How do I make sure that my life and my choices are most in alignment with how I could maximize my potential for the Lord? And out of that, as you were referring to, I really felt like I had, in a sense, an encounter with God afresh in this area of not only my own personal financial stewardship but also with my time and with my focus, and I felt in a sense that the Lord did call me to be like focused not only on supporting missionaries with money but, as we're talking about becoming a missionary. And I felt like the language I was given was to my own people, and one of the best ways to define that, given the scope of my story, was and is to the next generation, to children of family, business families, family office families, because of how I had lived that out already and wanting just having a very authentic desire to lean in, to seeking to minister to people in that circumstance as well. So that's continued to look like many things over the past few years.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you so much. Yes, and tell us a bit more specifically on a practical standpoint. So how are you living this out? I know you have a podcast, I know you have a fellowship that you're running Like give us a list, brag on yourself a little bit. I know we're really bragging on God here, right? So, yes, amen, tell us all the things that you're doing. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, so a bit more of the narrative and the timeline too in those areas was first off, something that I think many families of wealth go through is kind of this awakening stage to the space that exists already for family offices, for those stewarding wealth. And I was so grateful and blessed I mentioned I had this mentor already who in my early 20s had met with me a lot, kind of helped me think through philanthropy and things. He had also taken time to introduce me into a couple more networks around stewardship and especially faith-based thinking with giving and investments and community. And so come again around this kind of mid-20s period, I started leaning into those things like never before and with that I started realizing that there were more programs and opportunities that existed for this category of people known as next gens, and one of them, which I love sharing about, is called Core Venture, k-o-r-e Venture, and the program is specifically designed for children of, again, family office families to be able to grow in leadership, in life direction kind of coaching for how they're going to keep growing and then also community finding a peer network of others in the same circumstance. And so I did that program it was kind of during COVID time too, but to lean into that. So that was huge for me. Basically seeing that this area could be focused on and through that program and through developing a lot of friendships and community there, I started to again feel awakened to want to invest in it myself and use kind of my more entrepreneurial energy and time to do what I could to continue to support the space. So with that, the couple other pieces that I now continue to do are number one, a Christian fellowship group for NextGen. So this was something actually some of my friends who also did the core venture program and I realized is that there are these spaces, there are conferences, there are peer groups, growing opportunities for NextGens, but there wasn't, in what we found, specifically a ministry toward them and one that was specifically for Christian next gens.
Speaker 2:I know it sounds like a niche. That's one of the main forms of feedback I get about. People are like it's not a really small group of people, but the funny thing is it is very individualized, of course, but that's part of the beauty of it is that we all know that this is a narrow path that we're trying to walk, but we want to do it together and we want to really encourage one another, both in our faith in our stewardship in this, as we like to call it, no agenda environment. We're not asking people to even do philanthropy or things like that. We just want them to feel met and resourced personally in their journeys in that way. So that group is called Magnify. Our little website is magnifygenerationcom. People can get in touch with me through the website or obviously just through my personal contact if of interest, and we actually run the group primarily through a social media app, so we just have people on kind of like a shared group there we go.
Speaker 1:Well, that's kind we all kind of joke about it, but it's been wonderful.
Speaker 2:We're up to about 140 people, so we have been able to really yeah, kind of you know, get the word out and just see who's out there. And one thing I've found about this wealthy family space for lack of a better term is that there are actually more out there than I think people think, but they're often hidden, and for good reason, obviously to protect themselves and their missions, perhaps. So, all to say that it's been so encouraging to build the Magnify community and we like to do Zoom calls and connect with each other. Our most recent call was about generosity, decision-making actually. So we just wanted anyone from the group to be able to come on and just discuss even some of the harder things of hey, how do you choose between nonprofits? What if you have friends asking you for money directly because they know your family's wealthy? How do you navigate those type of dynamics and the unique space that we're in? So that's magnify.
Speaker 2:And then the two other things that I continue to focus on. One is a good friend, fellow nextGen named Parker Samuelson, and I have run a podcast for the last few years called Ascendance, and that is an avenue where we help other NextGens, or I should say we give them space to tell their own stories. That's one of the principles that I'm really passionate about with working with NextGens is allowing them to have a voice. It's one of the things I think our demographic struggles with is feeling like our stories are told for us because people know the family, business, name, they know that you're wealthy. So giving next-gens that unique opportunity to say, hey, this is me, this is my opportunity for self-definition, that can be very empowering. So ascendance and that word is actually the idea of being a descendant of a successful family, ascending into your own identity and impact. So that podcast has gone on for about three seasons now.
Speaker 2:Just 15 or so episodes of having other next gens just talk about how they were raised, what they've done with their lives and how they've integrated their stories of stewardship and life direction. And then lastly, as we're kind of doing now, I really have been enjoying telling my own story and exactly what you said, just as an attempt to give glory to God and say you know, the journey I've been on is not what I expected, but it's one that I have sought to look to the Lord and to humbly and prayerfully focus on stewardship. And so I joke. I kind of have this passion to give financial advisors and previous generations hope that next gens can go on to live lives of faith and philanthropy, or whatever their own stewardship looks like. That is, you know, my goal every day, obviously only by the grace of God. So being able to share, like you and I are having this conversation right now, is a real passion.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful and I love hearing how your story has progressed and how you know it started as one thing and you're just faithfully kind of taking one step at a time and then God clearly shows you. Hey, there's this group of people. They're not being served, they have a felt need and I've equipped you to go do it. So here you go, have fun. You're just like stepping into that space and showing up in so many ways because you're right, yes, obviously it's a niche, it's a very specific community, but I think that's a beautiful thing because you know exactly who you're serving and you know their pain points and you know what they need and, just like you said, to make sure that they feel seen and they feel heard and that there's not any kind of agenda attached, because I imagine that having that space is really, really valuable to the folks that you're serving, because they can't go very many places without being worried about other agendas. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, so it's just really beautiful, it really is.
Speaker 2:The Heart of Money podcast will return after this brief message.
Speaker 1:Hey, listeners, thank you so much for joining us on our mission to change the way we talk about money. You know, in my years of counseling, I've realized that so many Christians struggle to integrate their faith and their finance. So if that's you, if you want to experience more of God's dream for your life and your money, and I'm excited to share with you, we have so many tools and resources available for you at markleycoachinggroupcom. So whether you're looking for a Bible study to do with your small group, or you're looking for the flexibility of an online course, or maybe you want the personalized attention of a one-on-one coaching experience, check us out at markleycoachinggroupcom and experience how we draw people closer to Christ, one conversation at a time. So let's lean in now.
Speaker 1:As we've alluded to our audience here in the Heart of Money, we have pretty two distinct groups. So on one side, we have Christian leaders who often engage people in money conversation, so that might be a pastor or a stewardship minister, it might be a financial advisor, so that's about half of our group. We have a lot of nonprofit leaders too. The other half of our group are folks who are more so wanting it for themselves personally, right, so they might be saying, yeah, I'm nearing the point of life where this is, you know, a top of mind for me. What am I going to start doing with the wealth that I've built? And again, for a lot of people that causes some anxiety or some stress. So we have these two groups one who might be going through it themselves and the other group who might be leading people through it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we'll do our best to speak to both audiences here. So tell me first off and I'm going to start with just a very general question and we'll start to work our way back. So we'll start big and we'll get small. But the first question, kate, tell me if you were sitting knee to knee with someone and they're saying all right, kate, we've heard your story. You're advocating for this next gen, you're doing all of these amazing things. We're the parents of next generation children and we're wondering how do we best equip them to be able to take on a project of this magnitude. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2:Yes, great question. I love trying to inspire previous generations to really have a vision for, as I like to call it, family stewardship and, I think, to stay on that high level like you're talking about. I have been captivated for years by the idea that a family could love each other so well obviously that would be the goal goal and have healthy communication and have a real sense of identity and even shared values. That then the stewardship and the overflow of money being passed down money being, you know, in other means, maybe put in a foundation, a donor advice fund, anything like that that the practical stewardship is an overflow of the love and the connection already felt in the family. So that's been something that I just feel so passionate about you know what's possible kind of again casting that vision that a family could be so healthy that it could operate in some senses. I've even thought about parallels of royal families in centuries past that there could now obviously royal families are notorious for being very broken but that idea of how could they have nobility and really see their legacy as one of impact and leadership. So, with that being said, one of the main principles I really try to encourage both parents and the generation themselves as well as wealth advisors, is to make sure they're keeping their attention Most of all, not only on the stewardship of wealth, which does tend to be the driving question that would lead people into conversations like the ones that we're having, but really to keep in mind that it's not ultimately the money or the stewardship itself that is the treasure, but it's the people, it's the next gens themselves, who are the greatest gift and the greatest resource, in a sense of the family.
Speaker 2:And that sounds probably obvious, but I think it is something that I personally, and I encourage others to just like, hold every day of saying. You know, it is the people in my life, and I think it's a very biblical mindset. We are made in the image of God, and even those of us with you know, shall we say, hundreds of millions of dollars to get out there and steward still, you know, if we believe that each person is priceless and that you know God's work on our behalf as we just celebrated here recently, easter this year is for people to be saved and to be, you know, led in God's way. So, with that being said, really keeping in mind okay, how do we, as parents, as advisors, keep in mind that it is the children, it is the next-gens themselves who we want to see empowered and who we want to see thrive, and that I think as again, starting on that high level is a mindset I really encourage people to cultivate every day and how they go about this.
Speaker 1:I think it's beautiful how you said that, kate. It really touches my heart. You know, I've been in a lot of conversations when we're talking about the great wealth transfer and all of this money that's going to be handed down to the generations, and it always is riddled with like, oh, I wonder what's going to happen right, like we're almost like taking shorter breaths as we're talking because we're like, hmm, what's going to happen when really we start to shift right? What you're doing is basically flipping the coin for everyone and saying, oh wait, remember, it's not about the money, it's about the people, it's about the people who will be receiving the money. Let's make sure that, first and foremost, we're discipling them.
Speaker 1:And essentially, what I heard you say in the first answer of you know someone who might be questioning or wondering what's the next step that I take as I begin to go down this road. Essentially, what I heard you say was a healthy family, first and foremost. So making sure that there's good communication, that there's healthy, christ-centered communication going on in the home, making sure that there is a family identity and some core shared values. So we'll all bring our own unique things to the table, but do you understand the identity that you have in your family? Do you understand the greater role that your family plays in building God's kingdom and again injecting this all with love and starting there? I imagine that that could potentially solve a lot of problems for people.
Speaker 1:And in my mind, it's also highlighting maybe this is why this conversation is also so difficult, because it highlights you know, as we start talking about transferring of wealth, it may highlight things in the family itself, the relationships and the dynamics that exist that might need more care and attention. And it's not just about all right, I'm handing you this money, good luck. But it's saying, oh yeah, we haven't been able to talk the last few years without, you know, really seeing each other eye to eye, or we haven't really been operating from this place of love. It's maybe been more of this place of tension, yeah Right. So for me that's just something that you're highlighting, as you're sharing is potentially that could be truly the underlying issue for some of these families as they're stepping into this conversation. Some of these families as they're stepping into this conversation, it's not just about the wealth itself, but the fact that this process is just holding a mirror up to some relationships and to some things within the family that might need to be addressed.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That is such a great way of saying it, courtney, and, like you mentioned, it is the hardest work. So I get it. I definitely want to, you know, like, express empathy to families in this place. One of the ideas with stewardship in general I love talking about is this concept that money amplifies what's already there, whether goodness and faith and values and philanthropy, or pain and strife and disagreement. So that's part of why this is such an important area, but one that, shall I say, requires sensitivity and thoughtfulness, is because it's going to feed the fire, to put it one way, to the dynamics that already exist, you know, and so obviously part of my mission is to give families hope that there are good things.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the things I think I see a lot in the family office space that I'm personally very passionate out of my own story of speaking into, is fear. That there is a ton of fear and I get it of, you know, messing up the next generation, of destroying a child's drive because of money given at an earlier age. And obviously I think we have a lot of cultural examples, the whole kind of trust fund kid image, that it can be very sad, but I think too, you know, in my own story which I know we're getting into here of thoughts on wealth transfer, my drive has actually been built by the stewardship capacity that I have been given in my 20s, so that's one side of it that I really love to kind of encourage and try to give again hope and vision to what the wealth transfer dynamic in general. But I think, going back to what we're talking about as this greater concept, families need to work hard on the dynamics within that and on a more negative level too.
Speaker 2:One of the things I've seen a lot in this space is parents wanting to start a family foundation or a shared donor advice fund, which is a great idea.
Speaker 2:We love that. But let's say the kids aren't actually feeling that connected to their parents as young adults or they don't really have that shared values system in place and enjoy, you know, being together as a family. Then let's say you have the family foundation structure and you want the kids to serve on the board or to be a part of making decisions on grants. They might not want to and that could even tragically lead to resentment or the kids, you know, pulling out of the family even more. So I think that that's why, again, I think there's so much nuance and need to focus on this area of how family stewardship functions? Because there is both the potential to sadly cause people to be even further driven apart if there is unhealth and lack of transparent, good communication, but also, again, on the encouragement side, there is opportunity to actually have the wealth be a part of how the kids and the coming generation and family legacy grows and becomes even more beautiful and God honoring if it's done in that place of love and connection, in my opinion, like we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Very good. I really like that we're starting here, because for me, what it's highlighting is that, first of all, it doesn't matter what stage of life you're in. If you're still raising your children, no matter how old they are. We can start this step right now. Yes, absolutely, we can start instilling this, even if you're like me and you're chasing toddlers around all day like. We can start this step right now. And so that's what's being ingrained in my mind, and I want to speak into other people.
Speaker 1:Listening is start now. Don't wait three decades from now and say, oh yeah, I have to teach you about stewardship. We start now just by the words I think you used earlier is family stewardship, student, our love for one another really well, and cultivating those healthy relationships, and then something that you just touched on that I want to continue going down. So there are obviously different methods that parents can choose when it comes to passing along money to the next generation.
Speaker 1:Your parents in your story chose to do it early, so you were 21 and you received this money to manage, and I'm curious let's lean into this a bit more because you were just mentioning how, if we start to force people into one thing or another, then resentment can build. You get a lot of tension. They might try to pull away from the family in some sense. So I'm curious, speak to the parents listening who wonder well, how could I potentially start to do some kind of transfer of money? But also I'm hearing like transfer of control. Give the next gen more sense of agency and more sense of control and ownership of what the family is doing as a whole unit.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, it's such a great question and just again give a little bit more context on my story, as I share my general thoughts. The way that my family did this with the early inheritance was they started an account for me which I believe is called something like a UGMA, a Uniform Gifts to Minors account in that realm of just general financial planning, and that meant that that account was fully my own, that my dad built and he has a real gift for picking stocks and he teaches people how to do that. So he really was thoughtful and intentional about that. And then, as a part of that legal structure for the account, he set a date or an age that it then fully transferred ownership and control, wise to me and not him or the family anymore. And so anyways, if helpful, that is the background of my story and so then that is why, starting at 21, I did have so much of my own agency and I think to hit the more general thoughts about this as well and now, obviously just out of the background of my own journey, I have seen the power of making a choice like that. I think there are a lot of structures out there with family office type stewardship that keep the control and keep the timeline much more to previous generations, let's say until 35 or until more of a structure around trust funds with the yearly payouts or obviously waiting until a family member passes away to have any money get passed down.
Speaker 2:For me, this structure that my family chose was huge. It really gave me a sense not only again of just literal agency but also of empowerment, and I'll never forget. I may have referenced this some in the last podcast as well, but when my dad sat me down to give me the portfolio, he said to me we're doing this for you, your mom and I, because we trust you and we believe in you. We want you as the treasure, as we were talking about, to be able to run with your gifts and your dreams and to go for it. And to me, there's even an aspect of that that I think reflects the gospel and the biblical idea of inheritance, of how God empowers us as new creations to live out his purposes, to be, as some people say, co-creators with the Lord, out of that place of our agency and our choice to be obedient and to submit and to be led by Him. And so I am so grateful.
Speaker 2:I think that part of the reason I'm so passionate about this space is because I had that choice myself to lean in to stewardship and praise God that my faith was already very secure out of my own story at 21. I had demonstrated character. I didn't have any, you know, major issues like addiction or something in my life. I think one way obviously I would talk to parents about this is if there are, sadly, questions about their kids capacity to handle money, that needs to be dealt with Again. Going back to the general point of love as the driving force. If there is that question of could the next generation steward this well mentally or emotionally, that needs to be handled first.
Speaker 2:But I think, unfortunately I've seen that because of more of a fearful mindset of, oh my goodness, money is gonna ruin people, money is gonna be a distraction, money is going to ruin people, money is going to be a distraction, money is going to, you know, sideline my kids. To me that's a fallacy because money, as we're saying, just amplifies what's already there. And so in my own story I already had that drive toward ministry, that drive toward prayer and missions, and so having a portfolio that just steward was part of how the Lord, by his grace, multiplied that impact and effect in my life and what I've now done personally, and then now, of course, what I like to do with Next Gens too. So, all to say, I love the idea of giving hope to again people who want to do wealth transfer, the next generation, of believing that if they can create that experience for the next gens of empowerment, that the buy-in as well of the next gens caring about things like philanthropy could be that much greater.
Speaker 2:Again, just to reiterate, I think, because the choices I've made around stewardship have been fully my own, that I know that I am just personally accountable to God for what I've chosen to do with my portfolio, the sense of personal responsibility, of strength, of drive that this has brought me into, and not without its own trials and hard things as well.
Speaker 2:But that's why my philosophy is more to default to this idea of giving next-gens freedom with their own control over resources, as a way to allow that access to their own again agency, voice and opportunity and hopefully create again a family atmosphere of trust, of saying, hey, the parents don't need to be fully involved in every decision around dividend payments and philanthropy allocations, that there could be this space for the kids to really step up. And then again I think there is this dream around family partnership, if shared values do exist, but again starting with that perspective of empowerment, leaning back to the idea that the child is the treasure that money can help with them growing in their values and their capacity to make their own decisions under the Lord, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yes, that makes perfect sense. I love how you explained it for us, because, you're right, money will magnify whatever is already there. Yes, you don't automatically become, you know, greedy or lazy or whatever it is, just because someone writes you a check, whatever form it may be, and right, it's going to magnify whatever already exists in you. So maybe you come off as more greedy or more lazy, but you were already this.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and vice versa.
Speaker 1:Right, if you already had this nod towards generosity and towards missions and all these different things that you had, that your parents helped cultivate in you, then again that's going to be magnified. Let's talk for a moment about the fear. Like you said, this is a very nuanced topic. I don't think we could write a prescription for anyone. Otherwise, I don't know, maybe we would be doing something different with our lives. We can't write a prescription for anyone. It is very, very nuanced.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned, you know, making sure that your adult children are at a place where they are emotionally, physically, mentally capable of handling large sums of money. Yes, we don't want to give them money if they're going to use it to potentially hurt themselves or hurt others. But let's assume right now that that's not a piece of the person's equation. I know it is for a lot of families, but in this specific context, specific context, let's say that there's some fear of giving over control, of starting to release some of this money to the next generation. But really it doesn't need to be right. They don't have necessarily valid things to stand on to say look at this, this and this is why I shouldn't be giving money. Right, you following me so far, yep, I know I couldn't took a trail to get here, but here we are.
Speaker 1:I love it, okay, good so let's say that someone's coming to the table and they just cannot get over this fear or this control, all the what ifs, right. What if they don't do what I would have done? What if they don't handle it as well? What if they make a mistake? You know what if they get scammed, or you know something, or certainly you know? Some of the questions come through, as what kind of person will they turn into if they receive this money? So let's just unpack some of those what ifs and start to shed some light Because, like you said, a lot of these aren't necessarily rooted in truth. A lot of these are just rooted in fear and things that are meant to keep us immobile, right? So when I'm stepping into a conversation with an older generation that's looking to start to impart some wealth to the younger generations, a lot of times I will hear something to the effect of well, what if they do something wrong with it? Or what if they make a mistake? What if? What if? What if right, how would you respond?
Speaker 2:Yes, such a great question. I think that I want to keep that greater narrative in mind Again. I know it's so simple to just keep saying it out loud, but that ultimately, if we're talking to parents, your children are the ones you want to see become the fullness of who they are, and often making mistakes is part of that. You know, obviously it's sad no one wants to make a mistake but I think to help maybe calm the fear, you know, I think of the example of kids playing on playgrounds. They might get a little dirty at times, but that's all part of growing up and becoming the fullness of who they are. It's easy to say, maybe hard to live out, but not to fear that, not to believe that you know, if they do do something with stewardship that is their own, or maybe they'll look back on and say, oh, I wish I hadn't done that. That that's necessarily a bad thing because they're going to learn and they're going to grow from it.
Speaker 2:I've definitely made a lot of decisions along the way that I would probably do differently, but all of that has been really important for me getting where I am now. I've actually hired multiple different advisory firms now and have restructured at times, some of my philanthropy and my investments and all of that is my story and I'm passionate about it and it's kind of stoked the fire in me to want to become a better investor, a better philanthropist and a better person and a better follower of Jesus. So I think just that reframe of money is a finite commodity, obviously, and so we want to be wise with it. But if that is the heart posture that you believe your child has, allowing them which I could understand have empathy for it's hard, but really giving them that space, kind of like maybe you're giving them an education. You know, many families obviously pay for their kids to go to college and you're not quite sure, maybe, what they're going to do with their degree. But having a similar mindset of, hey, they need to go learn this, they need to go achieve this for themselves, even with things like investments in philanthropy, I think that is an empowering mindset again, that can be a part of how families can have courage to lean into that.
Speaker 2:Other just general principles I love sharing with people. One is I've seen across the line I think maybe your question refers to this too, courtney that older generations can put a lot of pressure on themselves. To quote unquote figure it out for the next generation, and I so honor that and I think that's so beautiful and that is the right posture to have. But I think I've seen that taken too far at times, when it's as though the first generation feel that it's all on them.
Speaker 2:Rather than my encouragement, which is to make it a conversation this is one of the main pieces of advice that I give to previous generations is actually to ask, to ask, especially if we're talking about adult children. You know I've seen this a lot of. You know, let's say, wealth creators, being like should I start a family office or not, and really kind of getting in their heads and being like I don't know if that would be their call. My encouragement is often hey, ask your kids, would they want to do that? Would they want to have a family foundation, would they? And I understand that that could be a scary thing, that could be a hard thing. Again, going back to our general themes as well, about healthy communication in general, if you don't have that between the generations, then that's again that to me that's the place to start. Maybe go get family counseling, maybe bring in a family coach who can provide that type of dialogue, but I think again, having a mindset kind of shifting the question a bit from I am the sole one responsible. Now, obviously, as a wealth creator, you are responsible for your money, but if you want to have wealth transfer, if you want to have multi-generational stewardship, ask your kids what do they want to do with it. Do they have a dream for a family foundation? Do they want to learn how to be an investor themselves and get involved in various forms of private equity or whatever the opportunities would be? Last thing I'll say on that point one of my favorite things with early inheritance that I've seen witness examples of and actually this is part of my plan if I ever do this for my own kids one day is to actually make even the decision to inherit a place of agency.
Speaker 2:So the story I tell is there's a family that had two daughters and they decided to give their daughters money, I think at 18, to give them kind of, I think, a similar structure to what I got of this kind of portfolio that was fully transferred. But the small nuance that I think actually makes a huge difference that they did was that when they sat the daughters down, they asked them, they said we have prepared this for you. Do you want it? Do you want this portfolio? And the really interesting part of the story is that one daughter said yes and one daughter said no, and that reflected who the kids were. One of the daughters really wanted to go for it Kind of like more my story.
Speaker 2:I wanted to lean in to philanthropy and doing bigger things on that level, but some kids don't. Some kids are like you know what that's overwhelming to me. Or maybe I don't actually have enough confidence in myself to be able to steward money well. So that's one of my favorite examples of just again, a small nuance where you put more of the control and the decision-making in the next gen's camp of even choosing to inherit or not.
Speaker 2:Because I think with inheritance there's this basically across the line assumption that no one gets the decision to inherit or not. It's fully done to you. I don't like that honestly. I don't think that that's healthy if the goal is to create this experience of partnership and communications. And so I think again, flipping the script a bit and saying, okay, as a wealth creator, as a parent, how do I as early as possible again, I'm not talking about elementary school kids, who still have a lot of the areas of their brains to develop. But you know, once adult children hit those ages of decision making involving them as much as possible, of saying, hey, do you want this? Hey, are you interested in having a family foundation and maybe running it one day, as much as the conversation can have that kind of flavor to it, of interest and leaning in to the capacities of the next generation and their agency, I think as hard as it could be, and as complex and nuanced, I think the better for the long-term success of the children and even of the stewardship itself.
Speaker 1:That's a really great perspective to bring in Again, so it doesn't feel like this is something that's being forced upon you. Yes, but this is a gift we prepared for you. Would you like it? Do you want to accept this, because it does mean taking on quite a bit of responsibility? Yeah, yeah, that's very good. And going back to your first answer to addressing the parent who might say, yeah, but I'm worried that they're gonna mess it up, I kind of like just planting a stake in the ground and say, like they're going to mess up some.
Speaker 2:They're going to mess it up Totally. It's part of being human. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:And, if we're being honest, like the wealth builders themselves have messed up some too right.
Speaker 1:Like no person has ever done this perfectly. So I like the idea of doing the early inheritance as a way to give them a little bit of space to try and to experiment and to grow. In my mind it's very similar to as I'm talking to people with young, young kids who are saying, okay, how do we just start the basics of teaching our children financial responsibility? And we say, okay, okay, at 13 years old, go get them their own checking account, go get them their own savings account. And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Why would I want my 13-year-old to have access to? You know, maybe a couple hundred dollars? Right, we're not putting a ton of money in there. Why would I want my 13-year-old to have access to all that and then give them a debit card Like, oh, my goodness, that sounds so scary.
Speaker 1:But the alternative is to them being an adult working with much larger sums of money and now you're not necessarily around to control or help guide their decision making, and so I think of this kind of, in a similar vein, of your parents are still very much involved in your life and you can go to them and you can ask questions and seek their guidance. It's clear that you guys have that built trust and love, and where you can communicate and say, all right, this is what I'm thinking. What are your thoughts, you know, having this dialogue about it versus the alternative. I know there's a lot of alternatives, but probably the one I hear most common is waiting for a parent to pass away and then transfer the wealth and kind of like, cross our fingers, hope for the best, you know which.
Speaker 2:No wonder why we have anxiety, like I'm not sure I love that plan and it's kind of sad too, because I like to think of the concept that parents would see the value in partnering with their kids around money.
Speaker 2:It's like if you're gone then you don't get to speak into where the stewardship might go and create that vision of it could be a foundation, it could be a multi-generational family office. How beautiful if that is actually what could happen while you're still alive. And that's such a great point, courtney, and that is actually a part of my story too, of how my parents have provided this kind of seed portfolio in a way so that I can get comfortable in my roles of being an investor and philanthropist and could potentially inherit bigger sums later as well. But getting started and building that identity and that sense of confidence in myself to steward even what I currently have and you know financial independence and large decisions already but I think that's such a great parallel, such a great way of thinking about it, of starting small and kind of building up but then allowing the family to be involved in each other's lives, like how beautiful that that could be. Something that even worldly money could help create is family connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I certainly can see that, how money no matter what sum, it is, any bit of money it can create opportunities for division or it can create opportunities for alignment, yes, and so the strategy that you're referring to to me says let's be really proactive and let's work on the alignment piece, right, yes, versus, again letting it sit and kind of cause this unrest or this tension. So very beautifully said, kate, thank you. And as we're wrapping up for today, I'm curious. So you talk to next generation, young inheritors, often, and this is a group of people that tell me if I'm going on a limb here, but they probably feel misunderstood or that their voice really can't be heard in a lot of rooms. So I'm just curious if you could, for a few minutes and I'm giving you a rather large task but to speak on behalf of your peers, to say, all right, what do they want parents to know? What do they want the older generations to know?
Speaker 2:Great question. Thank you for asking and yes, I think that you're so right and it's one of the most nuanced and hardest things to talk about, especially publicly, is the challenges of next gen. One of the phrases I like to use is the idea of the burden of blessing, because it is blessing and you know, obviously the last thing that NextGens generally want to come across to their peers or culture is entitled or spoiled or, like you know, they're all that. But it is real and it's something that, within my ministry, I feel incredibly passionate about is validating the uniqueness of the complexity of growing up in a family of wealth and, especially if that is a perceived thing by other peers, how much that is a challenge. There is a cultural phrase which I like a lot of the concept of more money, more problems, and I do think that that is real and not only obviously purely on a financial stewardship side spectrum, but also in how you're perceived and how you can grow up as a normal child. So I think starting with a baseline of compassion for that, especially coming from a parent or a family member or a friend or a financial advisor, is a big deal of saying that there is a hardship to this storyline. That again is nuanced because it comes in the way of blessing, of freedom, of opportunity, but also that there is just such complexity to it is the word I generally put on it. So, starting with that posture of next gens have a lot to work through, one of the reframes in a positive way I love talking about is I actually think a superpower, as I like to call it, of next gens have a lot to work through. One of the reframes in a positive way I love talking about is I actually think a superpower, as I like to call it of next gens is we're really good at bridging a lot of different worlds. Like, let's say, my family has an incredibly beautiful home, but also I go to school with a diverse group of peers. I'm actually gonna probably build a skillset, even unconsciously as a child, of knowing how to relate to both worlds and trying my very best to fit in to both.
Speaker 2:The two summary points would be, first off, just to validate the hardship of some of these areas of feeling judged or feeling lost as a next gen in the concept. One of the images I love too is the idea of that the parent success is a shadow that it kind of does cast a glow across the next gen. Again, I'm passionate about reframing that as an opportunity for families to build legacy together. But to again start with that place of this is real and it is an emotional experience for most next gens. That needs to be addressed and then to actually see that next gens have some real giftings that they develop, even unconsciously, that can then be utilized in how they grow up and in the impact they make on the world. And so just continuing to kind of look at each next gen and seeing their giftings.
Speaker 2:So back to your question of you know, what do they want parents to know? I think they want, we want parents to know that we are real people and obviously, and we're living out real stories and we want to lean in. I think that's something I've heard a lot in my ministry group is that there is that sense of especially if there is love and honor present in a family system, the desire to do more with the family, whether it's philanthropy, whether it's stewarding their own capital with this mindset of honor and opportunity. So to not assume, maybe, to put it another way, that the kids are either angry or just spoiled, but to see that there is a superpower is my favorite word for it that next gens live out with the uniqueness of how they're perceived. That can then be harnessed, especially if they're given that agency and that voice to grow with it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yes, it absolutely does, and I appreciate how caring and thoughtful your answers are. So you said this is a very nuanced and it's very delicate topic and everyone's experience will be very different, especially depending on what their family looks like and how their family operates. And are we talking about multi-generational wealth, like what is the framework that we're working within? So I really appreciate you sharing everything that you have. Thank you so much, kate.
Speaker 1:And again, to kind of zoom back out and look at the bigger scope, some of the main things that I'm taking away from the conversation, all these fabulous things that you shared with us, is, first and foremost, just developing a culture of family stewardship, and we can start that today.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter how old you are or your kids are. You can start that right now. Creating this healthy dialogue, healthy communication, instilling trust and hope and ownership within your children, whether it's something big or something small, taking that first step, valuing them as people, putting the emphasis on them versus putting the emphasis on the money. Very good, thank you so much, kate, and thank you, listeners, for stepping into this conversation. Again, we recognize that each of your situations are so different and complex and we want to honor that, and I think, kate and I would both encourage you to, first and foremost, both encourage you to, first and foremost, be praying a lot to say, okay, god, what is your desire for my family, for this money, for everything that you've given us? Yes, and how can I start to again approach this with an open hand? Remember, ultimately, it's not us who's in control of this money. It's truly god's to have full control over. And how can we just be the person directing that according to His will? Yes, any last words of encouragement, kate, that you want to share?
Speaker 2:Amen. I'm so glad that you ended there because I think obviously there's so many nuances and practical aspects of this family stewardship world that I like talking about. But the good news is, and the final encouragement I'll say, is that obviously we believe as Christians that God is in control and God is telling the story. And as much as parents may feel pressure to figure things out and as much as next-gens may be nervous about the direction of their lives and what's to come, the beauty of our faith is obviously that God owns it all, that God has a plan for every family, for every person. And so, yeah, just wanting to also make sure to keep cultivating, as you were saying so well, courtney, that place of peace and that place of rest, and also feeling like there's not this rush to figure it out, to have anxious control, but that we can truly lean into the Lord, like you're saying, and ask Him day by day to give wisdom, to give insight and, again, to give love and connection within family systems as the ultimate treasure, as we've been talking about.
Speaker 1:Very good. Thank you so much, kate, and thank you everyone for leaning in. We encourage you to continue the conversation and continue the conversation at home with your family and, if you need to bring in some different professionals you know we talked about family coaches and financial advisors and focusing on the overall wellness of your family. So I encourage you all one to lean into prayer but also begin to ask yourself who might we want to bring in to help us to act as that advocate and that third party to help us start to take that next step. So thank you everyone. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has blessed you, share our podcast with a friend and if you have a money question, email me at Courtney at MarkleyCoachingGroupcom. I'm Courtney Markley and this has been the Heart of Money.