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The Heart of Money
Join financial coach, Christ follower, and owner of the Markley Coaching Group, Courtney Markley as she takes on tough money questions and delivers actionable guidance. Courtney's gentle but straightforward approach creates a safe, nonjudgmental space for people to talk about their money challenges. After coaching for several years, Courtney understands that money stress is usually a symptom of a deeper problem. Her approach to money will expand your understanding of how to succeed financially. You will gain tools needed to improve your money mindset while becoming someone who can have deeper, Christ-centered money discussions. Join Courtney in her mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time.
The Heart of Money
From the Archives: Why do I spend money the way that I do?
This week we continue highlighting some of our favorite episodes of The Heart of Money!
In this episode Courtney interviews financial coaching expert, Tracy Shunkwiler. Tracy has a knack for helping people gain clarity on their spending habits. During this discussion, Courtney and Tracy explain the four 'money scripts' that describe our behavioral patterns.
I'm Courtney Markley, and this is the Heart of Money. Talking about money can be really hard and uncomfortable, but it doesn't need to be. The problem is, we're taught to think about money in terms that are too much like science, with rules and regulations, and not enough like psychology, with emotions and nuance. Join me on my mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time. Thank you everyone for joining us today. I have a special treat for you all. I've invited my very good friend, tracy Schunkweiler to be with us. Tracy, welcome. Thank you, courtney.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm so happy that you're here. Honestly, I've been looking forward to this day for a few months now. We've had this on the calendar, so me too, absolutely. Yeah, if you could tell our audience just a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Sure, my name is Tracy Schunkweiler. I live in the northeast of the United States. I'm in southeastern Pennsylvania, just outside of Philadelphia. I'm married with two beautiful adult children and I have a second granddaughter on the way, which is just the joy of our lives at this point. I'm a financial coach, I'm a life coach, I'm an executive coach and I've been coaching for a good eight years now and I think that many of us coaches would say that we've probably been coaching our entire lives. Right, but as a trained financial coach, I've been doing this for about eight years and it fuels me, it feeds me, it gives me purpose and an opportunity to serve others and I feel like I have an opportunity to change lives of people that I'll never, ever, ever know, in that trickle-down effect and how we do what we do and how lives change and families change and legacies change. So I am thrilled by the opportunity to be able to talk into that a bit and blessed that God has given me this opportunity and these skills to be able to serve the way I can.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. We are so thankful that you're here. It is truly a gift and you do have this amazing way of touching people and changing their hearts and just creating space for them to experience some life transition, and I'm curious if you could walk our audience today through. How do you start to experience this transition with their money, with their life and relationships? How is it all?
Speaker 2:intertwined. Where do you start? Intertwined, I think, is the key word. I believe that finances are in every area of our lives and most of the times we don't even know that right. So where I start is just really getting to know the people I'm talking to my clients right and learning about them and what money has looked like in their lives from the time that they were little to what it looks like now. I do believe fully in money scripts and I'll explain a little bit about money scripts if you'd like.
Speaker 1:Please, I'm sure for most people listening who aren't coaches, they hear that word and say what is a money script?
Speaker 2:So money scripts are like they're in the subconscious. There are things that we learn as children. It's our unconscious money beliefs and we make decisions from those places and we don't even know we make decisions, whether it's about money or anything, usually coming from the subconscious. It's just like that automatic. You walk into a room and you turn on the light switch. You just know that it's there, and it's kind of the same thing with money. We make these decisions from this very deep belief system and most times people don't even know that they're making these decisions from that space. It's usually it's rooted from your childhood and a lot of times we're making decisions from something that doesn't even serve us anymore either. Or it was something that mom and dad did and for me, my parents grew up in the Depression, so they had scarcity. Me using what they taught me does not serve me today. I didn't grow up in the depression, but I do have some scarcity. It is in my subconscious. I grew up with an abundance of food the first two weeks of the month and the last two weeks of the month it's like you don't get seconds. You don't go in the refrigerator without asking, like we're weaning down right. So it's like you don't get seconds, you don't go in the refrigerator without asking, like we're weaning down, right. So, and growing up that way, we think a lot of times we're going to bring our children up differently than how we grew up. Right, we do that pendulum swing, but there's things that are so set in our brains and our subconscious that we don't even know that it's there. So we start to uncover those subconscious beliefs, we start to talk about what that belief system is and I do an assessment with my clients and from there we can know where their money script lands. So there's four different money scripts, right? So we have money avoidance, money worship, money status and money vigilance, and each one of them carries different like personality patterns, I'll say, or even survival patterns, right, that are in our money belief system. Those different money statuses, will say, will determine what your money situation looks like today, how you spend money, whether you avoid it, whether it's easier for you to step in and perhaps do a budget because you're so diligent with every penny that comes in, right, or that you just want to totally avoid it. And, courtney, you've been a coach long enough. You've seen all these patterns, right, we see how people show up and my job as a coach is to help them become aware of this, just to bring the awareness level up that these are the decisions I'm making and how does this serve me today, many times we find out that our money beliefs don't serve us and that's why we are where we are and are looking for the help that we're looking for.
Speaker 2:You may think that somebody because they believe one thing. So if somebody believes that money corrupts people, you would think that maybe that they don't have money, and a lot of times they may have less of a wealth, right, less money in their account, but at the same time they believe that life would be better if they had more money. So, one, money corrupts people. Two, life would be better if I had more money, right? So in that belief system of life would be better if I had more money, but also in the subconscious that money is not good. Let's say you're constantly in the cycle of a fight of trying to get to. Why can't I get to where I'm trying to get to? Because your subconscious is taking over in your behaviors.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, I'm so glad that we're stepping into this space. And so the first thing when you start talking about money scripts, the first thing that comes up is when I'm in a conversation with someone and we could be talking about money, we could be talking about all kinds of things, and they say I want to do this, but I just don't do it and it frustrates me and I don't get why. I can verbally tell you, I can discern that whatever I'm doing is not serving me, and yet it's what I keep going back to time and time again and that can be really frustrating for people. And so what you're talking about with the money scripts is bringing attention and awareness to a deeper layer in the subconscious of why we do the things that we do. That's right. Can you say the form types of money scripts one more time for me?
Speaker 2:I can Money avoidance, money worship, money status and money vigilance.
Speaker 1:Very good. Can you give us an example? I think it could be really helpful for people listening. Can you give us a quick example? Sure, let's start with money avoidance. What are some of the key characteristics of people who, deep down, avoid money?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. People that avoid money. They're usually wiser and they usually have a higher income.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you wouldn't think that. But as somebody that avoids money and they may even be giving their money away they may be bigger givers too, right, okay? And they also probably don't know how much money they have. And I'll give you an example I have a client that is a money avoider and as we uncovered his money scripts and his financial situation, we found out that he was a millionaire and didn't know it, not even close, knowing that he had all this money sitting in this retirement fund and other funds that he had been contributing to his entire life and didn't even know it was coming out of his check.
Speaker 1:Wow, so truly out of sight, out of mind.
Speaker 2:It's truly out of sight, out of mind, so never looked at his pay stub, couldn't imagine, you know, looking at where his money was going, didn't have any idea, didn't understand that he had chosen to do this, to invest his money in this. It was a 403B plan over all those years and as we started uncovering and started digging deeper into his finances, I believe the number was a million eight, yeah, and he was $50,000 in credit card debt, not even knowing, thinking that he could never, ever retire, which he's semi-retired now in the realization, and he couldn't believe it, like when he found out those numbers it was that's not true, that can't be true. How would I ever access that money? Like he just couldn't even fathom, because he'd been saving that money all that time but avoiding what he had been doing, like just really blinded to it.
Speaker 2:I think about when I started this journey, before I got fully into this, I was afraid of the mailman, meaning that what he was putting in my mailbox, which was bills, which was credit card debt, because I did not have any clue what I was spending on credit cards and I would avoid it until the bill came and then maybe the bill could sit there for a week or two weeks or three weeks or whatever, before I was willing to open it. But I also want to tell you I was a saver. I always saved, and I saved a high rate. That sounds so contradictory.
Speaker 1:It is contradictory, right. Yeah, it really is yeah.
Speaker 2:So, learning more about us in that way and what we do, it starts to make sense as you step further into it. But it can be really confusing, like if I'm a money avoider, how do I end up being a saver? Well, the fear of not having enough and the belief that I will be happier if I have more. But that didn't stop me from spending and just creating this vicious cycle and thinking that I'll never, ever have enough.
Speaker 1:That's fascinating, that's really fascinating. So would you say. At one point you would have characterized your money script as a money avoider. Absolutely yeah most definitely Very good, and does that stay the same always, or does it change at some point?
Speaker 2:I think as we heal, as we do our work, as we give ourselves and do our work, meaning our internal work is where you step into these places, and the more we bring up awareness, the more we're able to change our how we're behaving with money, what our mindset is. I did a pendulum swing. I went from money avoidance to money vigilance, meaning that it was obsessive. You know, really, looking at my numbers from there's no chance of the mailman's coming and I'm not opening that bill the second it comes. I wanted to watch the numbers coming down constantly on my budget. I created a budget through Dave Ramsey's, Every Dollar, and I looked at it not daily but numerous times daily, as if something could change right during that time, just trying to understand and bring a different level of awareness. And for many people we do pendulum swings, right, that's what happened to me. But I want to tell you that was the outside, what I was doing.
Speaker 2:I became money vigilant in my behavior, but my subconscious was always still there's not enough and I'll be happier if I have more.
Speaker 2:Back to that subconscious belief, right, yeah, so I want to back up and just say our behaviors may change in the way we're moving forward in that healing piece.
Speaker 2:But the piece that my parents taught me and the adults that I was around taught me growing up in the 60s can still show up in a big way today and that gives me an opportunity to pause, feel that right, that feel that piece of lack that I may have in the moment, Know what's true, Is this true and how does this serve me, this thought or this belief system and then from there I can continue to do my work and my growth piece and my healing. It's about healing right. And then I have a choice Do I want to be obsessive and money vigilant or right? Do I bring that awareness to a place of healing and change? Power of the pause. I believe in the power of the pause. So the power of the pause is just being able to halt that belief system and that behavior in the moment and until it settles and I can know what works for me in that moment with the thing that I'm doing.
Speaker 1:If I'm hearing you right, so the power and the pause. And so you and I were even in a conversation not too long ago where I was sharing a vulnerable moment with you and saying, yeah, I was like leaning in and I was about to have a panic attack and I suppressed it and I fought through and you know, I pushed forward and you said like, no, courtney, in that moment, like step in and really pause and lean into those feelings and lean into that panic attack and allow yourself to like really fully express what's happening in the moment. And so what I'm hearing you say in the power of the pause is don't hurry and suppress it and just say, yep, I got it, I'm pushing it down and I'm staying strong and I'm moving forward, but more slow down, stop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you're saying it that way and this is what I'm thinking about. If I think about my particular story. What did it feel like on that second week when lack was coming in, when the energy in the house changed from abundance, from that all to nothing, from you don't get to have that second piece of bread, or you know whatever that might be pausing and allowing myself to feel like, really feel trust, control, fear, my unpredictability, right, that can come up in those moments and that can play out in our adult lives. So, yeah, that's absolutely in my subconscious. So, when I have that moment of lack, like really just pausing and allowing myself to feel it in my system, in my body, and that's just like a. It's like a trigger to what I already felt when I was younger, but it never got an opportunity to be expressed or healed the word that comes to mind is reconciling, really reconciling some of the experiences and feelings that you had, uh yeah, and so reconciling to me and maybe we could talk about this reconciling seems more heady than healing.
Speaker 2:Speak into that some more for us. So when I think about like reconciling a statement, I think about numbers, right, like changing numbers, changing things. I can't just change my money script, like I can't just go from money avoidance to money vigilance without doing some type of work and bringing some awareness and the healing of you know, there may be some deep grief here and if I'm dealing with grief, for me that's not reconciling. That would be in my head just saying I'm going to do this, I'm going to change my behavior. And we know like a lot of people can probably relate to this with weight, right, so we lose weight and gain weight.
Speaker 2:Any of us can lose 30 pounds, let's say, and then gain 30 pounds back. Right, because there's a script behind there. There's deeper issues. So the question behind the question we talk about as coaches, but there's something deeper that needs to be dealt with, that needs to be healed in order to keep that 30 pounds off. And that's the same thing with money vigilance. Something needs to heal in order to get to a place where we can have financial health, not just in the numbers, not just in the way it looks on paper, but how it feels in our spirit and our hearts.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you leaned in here because there is there's a direct correlation between how we use money and our spiritual health. Right, you're absolutely right. A lot of people assume and it's probably because we're taught that whenever there's a money stress or money problem, well, it's a math problem, it's a heady problem. Right, it's something that you can take care of above the shoulders, so to speak. But really, what you're saying is no, no, there's normally something much deeper going on. And yeah, so I love everything that you're sharing, tracy.
Speaker 1:So what I'm hearing you say and what I see all the time with clients and I know you do too is that there is a really close correlation between how we handle money and our spiritual health. And so many people assume that, well, if I have a financial problem, well then it's going to be solved with math, right, right, it's going to be solved using my head. And what I love about how you coach and your approach to life in general is no, no, we need to lean into the much deeper places, and it's not going to be solved above the shoulders. It's going to be solved going deeper.
Speaker 2:And we're going to look to see what kind of inner work needs to be done or some healing. No doubt that money problems is not solved in the head. Any kind of ongoing money issues is absolutely resolved from the heart, from the opportunity to heal, from going deeper and doing our work and looking at what causes money scripts. I go back to money scripts and I think this, with any kind of behavior that we have, just like I was saying about, like, even like losing weight, all of these things that we may have struggles with our MO is to gain and lose or get out of debt and get back in debt, or all those things are always, in my opinion, not about what it looks like it's about. It's about something deeper.
Speaker 2:I'm a recovering addict. For 35 years, the problem wasn't the drugs. The problem was how I felt about me. Now I'm not saying that drugs didn't take me down a horrible road, but what I will tell you is that I was a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. I never felt like I belonged anywhere. So I needed to start stepping into my work to really know my self-worth and to understand where these deeper hurts and wounds were showing up in my life and it was the inability to deal with things in the moment.
Speaker 2:Let's say this is a very simplified version and I think that happens with money, to things happen and whatever's happening in your life and we don't feel that we can deal with the feeling in the moment. We might go shopping, right, we may go into our books and become very vigilant and start looking at how much money do I have, right, just because that's going to give me some level of self control. I think about money status and coming from a place, so that's another money script. So money status people will avoid, we'll say, the process of budgeting and understanding their money, but they will also show up in life with, like the newer car or the gold change or the newest of the new right, because their self-esteem comes from what you're going to think of me, because of what I have right, not because of who I am, but I think of money status. That's a great one to look at. That we all know people like that right that buy things that maybe they can't afford and we may not know whether they can afford it or not, right.
Speaker 1:Right, right, let me step in and actually share. So you shared with us where your money script was. When I started this journey, I definitely was in the place of money equals status. It's not so much about how much money I had, because I really didn't have any, but it was about how can I buy acceptance?
Speaker 2:How can you buy acceptance?
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm, and so it was, you know. So it fuels, yes, exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. And for those who are familiar with my story and where I came from, I've worked for a few years in Chicago at a very elite, very prestigious bridal salon, and so all of my clients came in and, holy moly I mean, some of them had outfits that were worth more than you know, my car. Our clients were paying for, you know, nearly custom gowns. They were very expensive and we worked with celebrities and just some really, really wealthy people and I felt like, in order to be accepted, I had to look like I fit in to this world that I really did not fit into and that got me into a mess of trouble. And you know, long story short, having to pay off nearly $100,000 of debt in my early 20s. But, yes, I can absolutely say check the box for me at money status script, because that's definitely where I started.
Speaker 2:Courtney, I love that you have that awareness and I'd want to ask you so did you grow up in a house that had a lower socioeconomic environment status financially?
Speaker 1:That's a great question. So I did not. But both of my parents came from very poor households where it wasn't until I don't know if I've ever shared this with you, tracy, but it wasn't until I was like 16 or 17 that I realized that not everyone's grandparents live in trailer homes. I honestly thought that's just where you move to when you reach a certain age like everyone retires in a trailer home. I truly thought that that's how it worked. You know you reach a certain age and that's what happens. So my parents worked very diligently and we were like, very like, right in the middle, like middle class. We afforded some nice vacations. We never really wanted for anything, but we also didn't have the best of the best right. So we were, we were just floating somewhere in the middle there, but there was this awareness and this appreciation that they worked really hard for that, because that's not where they started and know that financial scripts come from the adults you're around too.
Speaker 2:So you're around your grandparents, right, right, so it doesn't just have to just come from mom and dad. And then the other piece when we think about money status, when I'm working with somebody with that script, normally we hold people with money in higher regard. Yes, yes absolutely Right.
Speaker 2:We see ourselves a little lower than where they are in their humanness, right? It's a little bit crazy, like, when you think about how does that serve me today? How am I worth any more than you if my numbers in my bank account are higher, right, right, but that is the deeper, deeper belief system that they are more worthy in some way, and they've even become intimidating to us.
Speaker 1:Right, oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely Nail on the head and that makes sense to you?
Speaker 2:Yes, Yep, it does. Money status. People are also more apt to be gamblers. So when you're working with somebody who is, you know, suffers from the addiction of gambling, more than likely that would be their status.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really interesting.
Speaker 2:That would be their script money status.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that'd be really really interesting.
Speaker 2:They're also more apt to hold financial secrets from their spouses because, they're overspending.
Speaker 1:Because they're overspending, okay, so they hide it. I see, okay, which, again, that goes hand in hand with the gambling addiction as well. That's right. A lot of times that is under the radar. Yeah, that is so interesting, okay. So I'm really curious now to hear more about money worship. I think that's the last one we haven't touched on yet.
Speaker 2:Okay, money worshipers believe that money is the key to happiness. Every not every but a lot of their problems are solved by making and or saving and or earning more money Got it? We know people who may become workaholics. It's a great example, somebody that may put work ahead of their family, and that happens because of that piece of not for everybody. I don't want to be too general, but a lot of times workaholics come from that money worship place that the more I have, the safer, the happier I will be, the more in control I am, the better I feel about myself. Right, that self-esteem piece Right, and all these are attached in some way to self-esteem and how I feel about myself. But I think that that's probably the best example that most people can relate to. Is that the people that work long hours work really hard and maybe more apt to have a lower net worth? No, kidding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why do you think that is?
Speaker 2:I know I would have assumed that it is a little crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They're just constantly trying to achieve happiness from making money. It doesn't mean that they're high earners, I see. I see, okay, and they probably have really good work ethic. Okay, they're the person that you want to hire because they'll be at the office late, I see.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they pride themselves in their work. That's exactly right. They really pride themselves on their work and it sounds like they put that above all else. That's very interesting.
Speaker 2:And they're more apt to carry credit card debt. Really, yeah, there's a lot of layers here, right, a lot of layers to understand. That's why we don't do a one and done sessions with our clients, right, it's so important to be able to dive deeper into this and have a greater understanding of how this plays out for you, because you would think that with the one, well, that's not who I am then. But as you get to know these scripts better and how it applies to you and bringing that awareness, so, courtney, for you, if I'm working with you, I'm going to ask you to start bringing a level of awareness when you see people that you judge have more money than you, how that feels in your body, and notice what you're thinking in that moment and how you may hold them in higher regard.
Speaker 2:And even though you've done your work you know that you've been working on this we're never done our work, right. Even though you step into this, you are a financial coach this still plays out for you, right? In some way, this still plays out, and it's just another opportunity for you to dig deeper and have a better understanding of these thoughts and the subconscious behaviors that you have that may or may not serve you today, remembering that your parents grew up poor. You did not. You grew up in a middle class, got to go on vacations and things like that, but your parents were still coming from that place, from their subconscious maybe, of not having enough. Some people grow up poor and feel wealthy, right.
Speaker 1:Right, right, I can. I can think of a few people like that.
Speaker 2:That they're still showered with love and all those things that a child may need. And the financial scripts are not prevalent to being poor. They could be prevalent to something else sure that's a good distinction.
Speaker 1:And so I'm just curious. I was the type of student who's like all right, teacher, like tell me which one I'm supposed to be, tell me, show me what, where, the right direction to go, and then I'll go, I'll go over there. Right, I was that rule follower. I was. You know, it's just like sidebar real quick, let's just interject some silliness. I was at the airport not long ago, traveling with a few friends and we were coming up on the security line and there's like no one in the security line, and you know how they have those cattle things yeah exactly the, the the ropes that we, you, you know up and down, up and down, up and down.
Speaker 1:so, my two friends, they cut under, under, all of them, just to get to the front, because again there's no people. And here I am just weaving.
Speaker 2:You got your steps in, didn't you? Oh yeah, I did, and you know five minutes later I finally got to the front.
Speaker 1:They're like, seriously, and I'm like I know, I know it's just a thing, it's just a thing. So, anyways, knowing that, and I know that people listening share that with me, and so they're all thinking probably what I'm thinking and that none of these money scripts really sound ideal. So tell me, is there a certain point? Basically, how do you know when you've done it, how do you know that you have a healthier money script?
Speaker 2:It's a great question. I think that you start to see your behaviors with money change. You start to feel calm, there's a peace that whatever agitation may come with money, or stress or not feeling safe or any of those deeper beliefs that we may have, lessen, they become softer and in that softer space we're able to make wiser decisions. And that wiser decision, I want to say, isn't just about like building wealth, right? Sure, it's about creating a healthy relationship. And we know, on some level, as our relationships change and that health piece and as we feel closer, we can talk about this with our spouses, right? Sometimes we feel closer than sometimes we don't, right? You know, when you bring the awareness of, you know I'm shopping or I'm eating or I'm avoiding or I'm obsessing, those kind of just become softer and less right. Those things are more that are more prevalent with your script.
Speaker 2:I don't believe, courtney, in any level that we're ever completely done with our work, that we always have opportunities to heal and grow. You've stepped into your work and I'd be willing to bet, if you stepped into a room and you were the one that looked like you had less money, that you would have a hit, you'd have a trigger, you'd have some sense of well, these people will have more money than I do. How do I fit in In some way, right? It might not look exactly like that, but something would show up, right?
Speaker 1:In that comparison piece that we tend to do yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And listening to you talk, another piece that came up for me just doing some self-reflection. One of the things that I know about myself is I know that I shop for status, right To fill that void of wanting to be loved and accepted and good enough and those kinds of things. So I know that when I start shopping again and not just you know, not just your regular oh of things, so I know that when I start shopping again and not just you know, not just your regular oh, I need this or I need that, but you know, when I start going a bit overboard, that is a trigger for me to say, hey, wait a minute, my alarm bells are going off.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Something else is going on here and it has nothing to do with this stuff that I'm buying. That's exactly right. Has nothing to do with this stuff that I'm buying, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2:And so it does cause me to pause. I love the word antecedent because I want to know what happened before. So if I have a client that's gone shopping or bought a new car or whatever it might be, I want to know what happened before. And sometimes we're tracking back for days because we don't even know that. Whatever happened, you know, whatever caused that feeling, whatever disrupted me or triggered me, that brought me to that behavior, whether it's now, right, you know, or in a week from now, sometimes we don't pause enough or have the awareness enough to realize that we're in a space, that there's something churning inside of us. Right, so you may have been in a meeting last week and you may go shopping this weekend, right? Right, with the thought that you're just trying to fill that void of wanting to be loved, wanting to be enough, wanting to feel like I fit in. So, bringing that awareness, absolutely, we could even do a journal of some kind for you to say every time you go shopping, to check in with yourself how do I feel?
Speaker 2:What's going on inside of me? What happened yesterday? What's causing me to want to shop today? Now, you know you're going out and buying diapers and groceries, so that's not a. This is, this is a need, right, right. And if you're buying, let's say you're going out to buy a blouse and I said, well, how many blouses do you have, courtney? And you say, well, I have 20 of them sitting in my closet. Well, I may want to know more. That doesn't mean that it's not okay to go buy a blouse, don't get me wrong. So we just want to be able to have that deeper understanding of ourselves and what's causing us to interact with money the way that we do.
Speaker 1:That's very good. So in answering my question then, it sounds like there's not necessarily like a quick fix kind of cure to this method, right? No, it's more. You're laughing because you're like, absolutely not, and I'm like, darn it, I want the quick fix, right, I do. That's just human nature, I suppose. But therein lies the gift again and the opportunity to slow down, and it's the awareness. That's what you talked about right at the beginning of today's conversation is bringing the awareness to people of where is your money script, how does that affect how you interact with money? And then doing the work so that when those triggers start to come up again, you notice it and you can start to correct it.
Speaker 2:I love that you brought up the quick fix and I'd love to speak into that a bit. And what I would say, and what I know that know, is that if finances is 20% knowledge and 80% behavior, if it were the opposite, I would say, courtney, go buy yourself a money health book, a budgeting book, and read that and good, you're done, right. And there's thousands and thousands of books on money health out there, right, just like there is for losing weight, right. And we hear about the quick fixes all the time. We see it all the time and it doesn't mean that we're not attracted to it, because you see and go, oh, I want to look like that, I want to have that, I want to whatever that next thing is.
Speaker 2:And when somebody's saying to you that this is something you know a 30 day or a 60 day, or we can do this in this period of time, my bells go off because I know in my years of practice and study and recovery and working the 12 steps of the program that I'm in, that nothing happens overnight. It's all a process, it's an all an opportunity. It's an opportunity to heal and to grow and to shift and to change, and I think that the healing piece is big and we don't heal overnight. We don't. It's to some cellular responses, cellular reactions that are in us. And, courtney, what your listeners might not want to hear is that if you have a child seven or older, they've already taken on your money scripts. If you have a child seven or under, you've probably already wounded your children. We all wound our children. We don't mean to. We've all been wounded. We all have some type of trauma.
Speaker 1:Right, don't tell me that I know, I know Right.
Speaker 2:We don't, we don't want to know that, but there's truth there, right, because we are not perfect human beings, we are not all completely healed, right, right. So, and then that's sometimes for many of us, and I know, for me my work started because I had kids. I didn't want to continue to pass on to my kids what I felt was passed on to me. I didn't want to continue that legacy and they were my motive. They were my motive for stepping into this very difficult work, to really diving deeper and having a deeper understanding of all of my behaviors and all of my beliefs. I just want to give you a quick little story, if I could. Yes, please. Not sure if you know that, the roast beef story, but for anybody that hasn't, there is a daughter that says to her mother why do you cut the end of the roast beef off? And she says that's the way my mom did it. And so the daughter says well, can you ask your mom why we do that? So she contacts mom and mom says grandmom says well, that's the way my mom did it. So she says well, can you contact great-grandmom and find out why do we cut the end of the roast beef off? Contact great-grandmom and great-grandmom why do we cut the end of the roast beef off? And she says because I never had a pan big enough to hold the roast beef. So that's the importance right of going back and going.
Speaker 2:Why do we do what we do right, and it's passed on and passed on and passed on and sometimes it just doesn't serve us anymore. Grandmom just didn't have a pan big enough and it got passed on to her daughter and to her daughter and her daughter and then finally, somebody had the courage to say why, why are we doing this? How does this serve me today? Well, it doesn't. I can afford to buy a pan today that fits the roast beef right. So there's not a quick fix. I'm sorry, but there is a beautiful gold package in front of you with a beautiful gold bow that says if you open me, you have an opportunity to heal, or you can keep me closed and keep me away and put me back in the closet. You have a choice always. Thank you so much, tracy. You're very welcome, courtney, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to speak into what I am so passionate about.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is so clear. It is so clear that you're passionate about this and I'm so glad that you came today and you could be anywhere right now and you're here.
Speaker 2:And listeners.
Speaker 1:You could be listening to anything right now, but you're here with us and we're so glad. We're so glad, we're so glad that you chose to spend this time listening, and my hope and my prayer for you all is that you do accept the gift that's in front of you, that you do unwrap this beautiful gold bow and that you begin to heal. Thank you so much, tracy. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Courtney, Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has blessed you, share our podcast with a friend and if you have a money question, email me at Courtney at MarkleyCoachingGroupcom. I'm Courtney Markley and this has been the Heart of Money.