Is Shadowlands Daredevil Overpowered? | Punisher War Machine Preview | The Snap Chat Ep. 180

This week, Alex is joined by Marvel Snap content creator and Marvel Yap co-host: NotMyDance! After navigating a hilarious lesson in Gen Z slang, the duo dives into the latest OTA Balance Patch. They break down the +1 buffs given to Ares, Silver Samurai, Zombie Scarlet Witch, Agent Coulson, and Major Victory. Alex questions whether these safe, minimal buffs are actually enough to bring dead cards back to life, and suggests a "wild" unbalanced patch week to test extreme changes like a 1-Cost Pixie.

Next, it's time for new card reviews! Alex and NotMyDance discuss the state of the current meta, which has been dominated by the new Super Premium card Techno-Organic Virus.

They then debate the true power level of the Season Pass card, Shadowlands Daredevil. Does diluting your deck with 1/6 Demons make the card balanced, or does combining it with Techno-Organic Virus, King Eitri, and Adam Warlock create an unstoppable powerhouse?

Finally, they preview the upcoming release of Punisher War Machine. With Second Dinner confirming that opponents can see the marked location, does this 2-Cost ramp card lose its competitive edge?

Join Alex Coccia and special guest NotMyDance as they chat about this and more on this episode of The Snap Chat—and catch Cozy and Alex every week as they discuss all things Marvel Snap.

You’ve been listening to The Snap Chat. Keep the conversation going on x.com/ACozyGamer and x.com/AlexanderCoccia. Until next time, happy snapping!

Transcript

Welcome Back NotMyDance

Alex 0:00

Hey everyone, and welcome to the next edition of the Snap Chat. And this week we have a guest back that I've been looking forward to having back for some time, and it's NotMyDance, one of my favorite commentators in the Marvel Snap community. And honestly, I was blown away at our last podcast that we got a chance to do together,'cause not only do I think that your views are super insightful, but man, is this guy good on a microphone. I gotta tell you, you're one of the shining lights of the Marvel Snap scene. How are you, my man?

notmydance 0:25

I'm doing well. I appreciate the glazing. I was j- I, I wanted to make sure, right? You, you know glazing. I can use, I can use lingo like that around you, just to make sure that you're gonna be... You're chill with that.

Decoding Gen Z Slang

Alex 0:34

Yo, I'm... Yes, I am down with the glaze. Yeah. So I'm, uh, I'm, I'm aware of what that means, but, like, you said something prior to us recording- Oh,'cause- which honestly went so far over my head, I didn't understand what you were saying.

notmydance 0:45

Well,'cause I think you're frame mogging me'cause you're looks maxing with the pink shirt, and I just look chopped in comparison.

Alex 0:49

What? I like That's a, that's a real sentence I literally don't know any of that s- I don't know what that sentence even means. Like, I'm not even joking. Like, I actually... There's multiple parts of that sentence where I'm like I, I guess I'm old now. Like, I don't know. Like, is this the moment where I realize- Nah, you're not unc I'm

notmydance 1:02

just- You're not unc.

Alex 1:04

I'm not unc?

notmydance 1:05

Yeah. You know what unc is as well, right?

Alex 1:08

Uncle?

notmydance 1:09

Yeah. So oc- do you want me to explain all four of the, like, the

Alex 1:12

slang I just gave you? Can you explain all of it, please? Yes.

notmydance 1:13

Yeah, yeah.

Alex 1:13

Please teach me. Okay. It, it brings me down, like, it brings my age down a little bit. Helps me stay in touch with, like, my students even. You know, I can kinda come in, I'll be that teacher that walks in and starts j- dropping all the lingo.

notmydance 1:24

I'll say, you, you brought your age down a bit when we were talking a little bit beforehand,'cause you were talking to me about how you were stuck in the backseat of your folks' car with your brother, just sitting there waiting while your mom was talking to someone else for a bit, which I thought was amusing. Which- Well, yeah literally brought me back to when I was a kid, and I'm like,"No, this guy's older than me, and he, and he's still dealing with this. That's fantastic." But anyway, uh, what was it? So frame mogging, it means basically it's, like, showing someone up, right? So if I, if, let's imagine, I don't know, you've got a split on a card that it's, I don't know, you've got, like, i- it's ink with, like, a, a sparkle or whatever effect, and you're like,"It's pretty good," and I drop my gold rainbow crackle in front of you. I'm frame mogging you right there. So that's what's it is. C- I'm compar- comparing and I'm just showing you up basically there.

Alex 2:04

Oh, I see. I'm not known for doing that.

notmydance 2:07

Th- that's why, well, that's why I wanted to make sure that I pointed out this in particular moment where you were frame mogging me with the pink shirt, which I appreciate. And chopped, basically it's just ugly, right? It's just I'm saying I'm look chopped, I look ugly in comparison,'cause you're, again, the pink shirt, just magnifique. Uh, what else? And then frame my... Oh, and then looks maxing just basically is just, you just look good, and you're just doing the most. It's, you can put maxing in front of anything. You can say you're looking really good, you're trying to, like, look good, looks maxing. I've seen people about, in Marvel Snap say, like, split maxing, just to say, like, they're trying to grind for that perfect split or whatever. All that stuff. Like, it's just, you do a grind for whatever the thing is at the front of it. And then unk is just older person who's trying to stay hip

Mothers Day Glow Up

Alex 2:51

Okay, cool. That sounds good. Yeah. It- You- you've essentially identified all my personality traits there. That's, that's excellent. Uh, yeah, so basically I'm, I'm wearing a pink shirt'cause it's Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day- Mm-hmm by the way to all the mothers out there. Um-

notmydance 3:03

Happy Mother's Day to you, Alex.

Quick Haircut Stories

Alex 3:05

Oh, thank you. That actually means a lot to me that, uh... You're the first person to wish me a Happy Mother's Day. Thank you so much. But yeah, like I've actually, uh... Yeah, so I wore pink for Mother's Day, of course. I shaved because it was Mother's Day and my mom- Hmm. Me too was like,"You should be clean-shaven. We're going to a nice restaurant." I'm like,"Okay." And I got a haircut because Supercuts had, like, a$15 haircut sale, and usually it's 30 bucks. So I'm like,"Oh, you gotta get that sweet savings." Not sponsored, by the way, but yeah. Hell yeah. And I, I liked it. It was great. Went there. She did my haircut in, like, four seconds. It was so low-effort. Like, I'm not- Oh, yeah even trying to say this in, like, a bad way. Like, I know my haircut was like- No there was no care taken to my hair, but I was gone in 35 seconds, so... And it cost me

notmydance 3:42

15 bucks. I had one time, I th- uh, I had one time recently, I think the last haircut I got, I went there at...'Cause I was at, I was heading out of town the next day. And I went there and I was like,"Hey, I know y'all are closing in, like, 15 minutes. Can you squeeze me in?" And they're like,"Sure." Lady sits me down. She's like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Does the whole thing. Literally no time, whatever, and I'm just like, it's quick, it's done, and they're, and I'm out. I'm like, perfect. I'm here for it. I love it. No issues. 100%. Like, that's not a, it's, I don't think it's a problem. It's just, like, legitimately there are times where, like, I will maybe wanna do, like, the full thing. I've, I think I had one, like, fancy haircut basically where it's like I spent way too much money on it, and the guy, like... I thought he finished. I'm like,"Yeah, it looks great." He's like,"Oh, I'm not done." And he sat down and he, I sat there for another, like, 30 minutes and he's just, like, clipping for a while and, like, tiny things. I don't get it. But the fi- I don't know. 15 one, 15-minute ones feel just as good in my opinion.

Season Meta Preview

Alex 4:30

Hell yeah. I totally feel that. But, uh, I mean, before we get into, like, all the content we got to talk about today,'cause there's a lot. We're on the precipice of a new season, a new meta. Actually, the new season's already come, but we are in, in the, the deep of it now. And so we wanna- Mm review the cards that dropped last week, so there's lots of cards. We need to talk about Punisher, but we s- also need to talk about an OTA that just came as well. And so, like, there's so much. Oh, yeah. And, like, I mean, the OTA's a... It's a bit of a hot topic.

notmydance 4:56

Do we need to talk about the OTA?

OTA Plus One Debate

Alex 4:58

I, I'll be honest with you. Behind the scenes, like... What's it called? Uh, behind-the-scenes baseball they call it. I didn't even have OTA- Yeah on here, and you were like,"Should we talk about the OTA? Like, is it even worth mentioning?" What do you wanna say about the OTA while maybe I, we talk about a couple of the cards?

notmydance 5:12

I don't... I mean, uh, the OTA f- it's, uh, one of the later topics I think, right? But the OTA is just a... I don't know. It's kinda just a... It's, they just did plus eight. That, the whole OTA is they put plus eight in the meta, and that's it. And not even in the meta, just on cards, right? Plus one, uh, point of power onto eight different cards, and that's it. And it's- Yeah I don't know. Like-

Alex 5:32

Were any of them worth noting? Like, for me, like, do I want to say that, like, I care about Ares getting- A plus one going from four fi- uh, 4/6 to 4/7, does that matter to you?

notmydance 5:43

So I think the first two that they mentioned are the ones that do matter the most. I think that Ares, like Ares was already seeing some play in some decks, and now when he misses, especially as people are putting higher and higher cards in their deck, we'll talk about Shadowlands, Daredevil, I think it does matter a little bit more here because it- the misses don't feel as bad as you're at least no longer playing a card that is below rate with Ares. However, as you look to the, the other ones, I think as we get through them, they feel a little worse. You go... I don't know. Did you, have you played with Ares here since the OTA? Have you felt it?

Alex 6:16

No, I haven't played with Ares since the OTA, and but like the thing is for me is like, it's less about s- uh, Ares and more about like what they've done to Surtur. Like Surtur's been- Mm-hmm brought down so much with so many nerfs that it almost feels like, like I think that like this is one of those buffs where like you buff Ares, but you're also trying to like test,"Hey, I think everyone forgot this card existed. What if we buff Ares to put Surtur back on the menu and let people cook with it and see if they do anything," right? That's kind of where I thought they were going with that,

Techno Organic Virus Rising

notmydance 6:42

but I don't know. Yeah. No I remember, uh, they talked about that, right, where they said, they said Ares and Surtur. They mentioned both of them together in the same note- Yeah when they talked about Ares, and they said they expected Ares to naturally reappear in the meta game, which I thought was interesting. But they als- or sorry, they expected Surtur to naturally reappear with just the changes to the meta, and I didn't expect that. But I thought it was interesting in particular with when we talk about like Wilson Fisk and such, I feel like the card that has been the most powerful so far this season is Techno-Organic Virus.

Alex 7:12

Oh, yeah. For sure. Techno-Organic Virus has come out of nowhere and absolutely started just, just actually taking the meta by storm. Like it is legit a contender right now for sure, and it's o- it's obviously not even part of the OTA. It's part of a prior OTA because it used- Mm-hmm to do plus two cost. Now it does plus one cost. It's often being played, though, with the likes of I mean, Black Swan was a bit of cope early on, but you are seeing Mobius the Mobius being played a lot with it, which is kinda cool. Yeah. But yeah, Techno-Organic Virus is legit seeing play right now.

notmydance 7:39

If you use Techno-Organic Virus on cards like Fisk or other cards that can get to nine power, even like Shadowlands Daredevil if he gets there, that does work with Skaar, is what I've seen people trying to do. Like a weird way to like kinda sq- squeeze in a, a Skaar package into cards that are nine power, which I thought is interesting. I don't know how, like, great it is, but this has been, if I talk... If, if you mentioned how like the new season's coming in, and I think if there's anything about the new season, it's the Techno-Organic Virus that is actually an old card, but is really coming in hot.

Rapid Fire OTA Changes

Alex 8:07

I like how you're describing Techno-Organic Virus as an old card. It came out literally last month, but, uh, that's fine. I mean- Yeah in Marvel Snap land, I mean, I guess that's old. Uh, hitting through, yeah, but it's like one of the big winners from the last launch, like the, this past week. Yeah I'm just gonna go through some of these OTAs. I guess we're doing the OTA now despite the fact that like it's, again, as you mentioned- Sure one of the later topics. Let's just do it now. Uh, do you care about Silver Samurai going from a force 5 to a 4/6?

notmydance 8:34

Don't as much, but I feel like I can cope and say that I- you could do, like, the Black Bolt stature package now inside of a Daredevil deck, and that's the biggest thing, and that's what I'm interested in. Do I think it's actually gonna matter mo- much? Probably not, but I still like it. Again, with Technorganic Virus, this doesn't discard Technorganic Virus because it, it doesn't have any power, which is the fun part of this.

Alex 8:56

Do you care about one Starhawk, who I've not even... Well, here's my border, I guess, on Starhawk. I did get the extra variant, I just haven't really upgraded it. Do you care about Starhawk- Where is this from? going from a 2/2 to a 2/3? This variant is from, I think if you completed the ul- the limited time game mode pass, you got it.

notmydance 9:12

Oh.

Alex 9:13

And I played a bunch of it, and I was, like, maybe two levels away, and I paid, like, 150 gold for this, I guess.

notmydance 9:19

Yeah. Fair. Which

Alex 9:19

I clearly have played a ton of.

notmydance 9:21

Yeah, exactly. So much. No, this one, I actually haven't seen this variant before, and that's really cool. Anyway but what is it? I think Star- I don't know. It doesn't... In, in the end, it doesn't... Oh, God, my eyes are hurting. Um, I don't think the Starhawk one matters as much. I've coped with it, but it is, uh... It doesn't matter.

Alex 9:38

Yeah, no, it does not matter at all. Now, tell me about this next one, though,'cause this one just might matter. Kraglin going from a 3/3 to a 3/4, how inspired are you to play Kraglin?

notmydance 9:47

I thought you said this one would matter.

Alex 9:49

Okay, my bad. All right. What about Zombie Scarlet Witch going from a 4/4 to a 4/5? How much does that matter?

notmydance 9:57

Well, I think you meant Zombie Captain Marvel, for what it's worth. But, uh, I do... You're not playing this. If you were already wanting to play this card-

Alex 10:05

You're not

notmydance 10:05

playing this then you were playing

Alex 10:06

this you could

notmydance 10:07

have just stopped there. I mean, true. I love coping with this card, actually. But I'm, I'm not playing it any more than I already was, and that's the thing with a lot of these changes, I think. If you wanted to play these cards, you already were. You're not playing them any more, though, because a lot of them still aren't great.

Alex 10:21

What about 3/5... It won't let me click. Agent Coulson, oh, my gosh. This is an absolute beaut- I love Agent Coulson, but at 3/5. Is that, uh, is that getting you excited or what?

Major Victory And Mantis Rant

notmydance 10:34

At least, again, it's the, the same thing with Ares, where it's like at least it's, you're no longer losing tempo. It's just a card that I don't feel like I'm embarrassed by playing on turn three. Uh, however, it is still Agent Coulson, so I don't feel great about it either. But the next one, major victory.

Alex 10:48

Okay. There's some cope there, though. I- We could talk about major victory today.

notmydance 10:52

Do you... I don't think this card will ever be good while Mantis is in the pool

Alex 10:56

Of course not. Like this is actually embar- this is like such an embarrassing bot play to play Mantis. Like it's- Mm-hmm like you talked about embarrassing, like playing Mantis is actually embarrassing. Talk about a card that makes absolutely no sense and has no reason to exist. Like, this is such an awful effect. And we're gonna skip Spider-Man Noir for now,'cause let's talk about, like, let's talk about this. Because I actually think that there's something to be said about two things. One, Major Victory seeing more than just a three-five stat line. Two, Major Victory could potentially see a on reveal add two members of the Guardians crew to your hand. They have negative one cost. That could be cool. That would be much more flavorful than what they did. And three, could actually be relevant with the release of Punisher that's coming, Because Punisher's gonna highlight a location that you have to compete with. Who can compete with it better than all these guys here? Literally everyone except Mantis.

notmydance 11:49

Do you, are we going in reverse order?'Cause I feel like we're about to talk about Punisher. Are we going reverse order for this whole thing in the end? Is that, I kinda feel like- We weren't supposed

Alex 11:55

to

notmydance 11:55

I kinda feel like we're about to do that. But anyway, um, for, I mean, Mantis I don't get. Th- Mantis is a card that was incepted right when the, when the game was fresh, when the game was new and people didn't know enough stuff in Marvel Snap, right? We didn't know enough- Yeah of the strategies. So it was a fun card there, similar to White Queen. However, when you look forward and see what y- we're actually caring about nowadays, it's just not good. It's so bad. And Major Victory in particular, if you... I, I truly just think it's Mantis, and if you cut Mantis, I actually think as a three-five, there's a world where this card could see some legitimate play. But- Yeah, just remove Mantis

Alex 12:30

from the pool

notmydance 12:31

100%. I think it, that would just be a better card. But at the same time, it's, I'm not gonna say it's great, but I love the shout in particular with using the Guardians with, uh, the new Punisher, right? That's gonna be a, it's gonna be an interesting one.

Spider Man Noir And Big Buffs

Alex 12:45

We're gonna do this backwards probably. Which is, I mean- I think I'm, I'm here for. I think we may as well just do that. But, uh, with Major Victory- Yeah though, before I move on here, m- okay, we talked about the OTA. I wanna tell you though, before we move on to, to the Punisher- Yeah I wanna see the Spider-Man Noir nerf. I actually was playing unironic Spider-Man Noir this week, uh, because I was trying to do something with, uh, with Wilson Fisk,'cause he technically counts as a five. You did try that. I did try that Man, that deck was fun to play, but it was kind of really bad. But it was kind of cool. I was playing, like, first Ghost Rider with Ghost Rider. Like, I was doing all this cool stuff. My, my opponent was like,"What is this bot doing?" And I'm like,"Check this out. Boom, boom." And I'm, like, bringing stuff back. It was so chaotic. I actually had so much fun recording that video. Um, it was one of those decks where I'm like,"I know that this is gonna have 25% win rate when, like, other people try to play it." But for me, it makes perfect sense. But, uh, anyways, uh, before we move on to that though, I wanna ask you, your general opinion on... So the last prior OTA was actually a banger. Sha Lao got hit. Star-Lord got hit, like, hard, like, taken behind the shed hit. And then we get a plus one, plus one, plus one, plus one. This is kind of, like, so inconsequential, but also, like, it was only a week separated'cause they had a bit of a different schedule. Your opinion on, like, these plus one style OTAs. Like, i- is it really enough? Like, could we really have, like... What... Like, why are you scared? Like, why can't Captain, Zombie Captain Marvel go from 4/4 to 4/6? Like, why does it have to be 4/5? Like, why can't you swing just a little higher? Like, why does it have to be so safe for a plus one OTA? That's just my question for you.

notmydance 14:14

I don't know. I would love... I, I think I'd love to see Zombie Captain Marvel get more. I would have loved... I think I was a big proponent of her going 4/4 plus four, just making her bonus- Oh, cool like, her actual ability work better, stuff like that. And I think Spider-Man Noir could have... It could... You could have gotten more points here as well, or d- I don't know. It's... The problem is I feel like they've made a lot of cards, and I think this OTA, for the most part, has a lot of cards that are, like, really specific and really, like, meant for one specific deck, right? Like, I'm not playing Major Victory in any other deck than, like, a very specific Victoria Hand deck most likely. Maybe we would talk about Punisher War Machine, right? I'm not playing Spider-Man Noir in the majority of decks that I'm playing as well. Like, I don't care enough to make a, or put eight p- points on top of my deck or whatever, just set it to eight. A lot of the cards that they hit in this OTA are all cards that are super specific, and I... They even mentioned that and they touched on that here with, uh, Zombie, uh, Captain Marvel and Spider-Man Noir. They said both of the cards ask quite a lot of you, and they're happy to give them another point. And I feel like if they're ask- if these cards, these, like, quest line cards, right? Spider-Man Noir has a quest of have e- exactly eight cost out on the board. Uh, looking at other ones, I also think Contu's one that you could try to talk about. You could try to talk about potentially... Like, again, you can look at Krakoa. You can talk even about, like, Ares, cards like that, where it's just, like, all of these cards that are m- mini quest lines, mini objectives before we actually had objectives. I think there's a real shout that they should be putting more points into these types of cards rather than more points into, I don't know. I think they typically put more points into tech cards than they should. I'd love it if they put these, pay off these build-up cards like these and give them more points. So yeah, I, in the end, I do agree with you that they could have and should have potentially done more points But I feel like, I, I don't remember who had said this, but I loved this logic about the OTA as a whole, where it's like I bet they have this long list of cards that are all like,"Yeah, these could all just get plus one point of power." With all of these cards, sure, and then they just choose whatever ones they feel at the time, and I bet may- maybe that was just too big, and they said,"You know what? We just d- we dropped a banger. Let's drop an OTA that just doesn't matter as much." And I'll be honest, in the end, I'm still fine with that OT- with the OTA, right?'Cause of the last one that we got was so recent, I'm still chill with it. But also, I still want these types of cards to be cooler. I want them to matter more.

Alex 16:26

Yeah, and I mean, we're blessed in a sense that we even get OTAs in the first place. Like, I've joked- Mm-hmm about this in the past. Like, I remember playing OG Hearthstone, and, like, Secret Pally was going crazy for, like, months and months, and everyone knew exactly what cards had to get nerfed, and they weren't getting nerfed. And we're like,"Why? Bro, nerf these cards." And then finally they nerfed them. But they did, like, refund the, the value of the cards back to everyone that had them. Like, there was, like, a refund process, which I think was kinda cool. Mm-hmm. With OTAs, we don't really see that. Like, everyone that bought Star-Lord ain't getting refunded now that he's been absolutely punted in the schnutz. So yeah, it's, uh... OTAs are, like, an interesting beast, right?

notmydance 17:01

Yeah. And I think the, uh, the, the refunds are actually a really interesting part of it because I think that if they were actually refunding cards, that we would have less OTAs. Because- For sure I, at a certain point, right, it's a money decision when they nerf a card, when they buff a card. They are trying to get more money or they are potentially losing money. And by second dinner, better, for better or for worse, saying,"We are not refunding stuff," it means they don't have to worry about, you know, peop- losing money by doing an OTA. It means that they are straight up just, they are caring the most about balance and they are separating the teams, so much so that they even had to put a war- like, the themes between the monetization and the balance in the game. So much so that they even had to put out a warning like,"Hey, by the way, sorry that Star-Lord has a bundle. He's getting nerfed, just so y'all know."

Alex 17:45

Yeah, and it's a good thing they did that, too. I think that's like, you need the type of transparency. It's very easy for us to be like,"Oh," like conspiracy, like tinfoil hat stuff. They're probably like,"Listen, that team that did that is working, like, three months in advance, and we are, we're OTA-ing this, like, a week and a half, two weeks in advance." So, like- Yeah there's just sometimes the lines, they line up in a way where it's like, oh, like, this is, the optics are bad, so I'm glad they got out ahead of that. But it's also like, I can see both sides to it, too, where, like, you, you- Mm-hmm don't wanna, like, over-nerf a season pass card that is, like, a card that people paid money for and also enters the free-to-play pool. People spend their hard-earned tokens on it, then you nerf it, and you nerf it hard. Like, it, this got nerfed. This got destroyed. Remember, this was not... This was a four-cost at re- release, which is completely crazy. This is- God this is a shadow of its former self, right?

notmydance 18:32

It's, it is a such a shadow. I feel like this is one of those things,'cause in that same OT- uh, I don't- we're talking about two OTAs at this point. But also- in that OTA, right, they hit again, they hit the big three. They hit this card, they hit Xu Lao, and they hit Fin Fang Foom. And- I think all of them were most likely fair changes, fair hits on, even if I didn't want that to be the case, I think they probably still were. But as of, like, again, just talking about it recently, they all still have at least somewhat fine stats, uh, if you're looking, if you're looking at just, like, post-Infinite stats, where even if their popularity has gone down, right?'Cause they were... I don't remember what it was before. I wanna say it was, like, 10, 20% for, uh, I'll, I'll mention Xu Lao and s- and Sun Lord, Star-Lord in particular. They're now around, like, four, 4% for Sun Lord and Fin Fang Foom, and Xu Lao only has a 1.7 according to the last seven days, uh, and on untapped post-Infinite, which as much as I would say that these cards were really hurt, I actually wouldn't say that they are destroyed. They are just not as free. They're just... You, they actually have a cost for them more so now. Like Xu Lao, you're not building a deck to work just with Xu Lao. He is an additional package you're putting in a deck, maybe not always the one you're gonna try to go for, and that's probably a good choice.

Plus Three Power History

Alex 19:48

Plus three has always been broken in Marvel Snap, I think is what we've learned.

notmydance 19:51

Dude, I hate Morgan Le Fay.

Alex 19:53

That's a good point.

notmydance 19:54

Right? She does plus three.

Alex 19:55

She does. Morgan Le Fay. Do you guys remember that Morgan Le Fay ex- uh, exists? This is a card that I honestly have not played in the longest time, basically since release more or less. Uh, on reveal, return all your discarded and destroyed cards to hand with plus three power. I say that and I read that because I know there's people listening who have forgotten what Morgan Le Fay does or what she looks like. Definitely a waifu, but not getting the love, I guess.

notmydance 20:15

Yeah, uh, this would... This is what people used to call, uh, the mommy in Marvel Snap, I think, before Mother Askani came out.

Alex 20:21

Was this the card that Nina said had to step on me mommy? And I was like,"What?" And she said,"This is..." She said this was the step on me mommy card.

notmydance 20:29

I cannot wait for the comment section to tell you what, which one,'cause I do not remember that. I've got a crap memory.

Alex 20:35

Okay. And I'm pretty sure this was a 4-7 at launch, by the way. This also got buffed, right?

notmydance 20:40

It was a... It, it was a buff/nerf. They brought it down. It was like a four... I wanna say 4-7 sounds right. I don't remember. 4-6 maybe. But it used to, people used to work it with, use it with Air Walker.

Alex 20:47

Yeah.

notmydance 20:48

And that was the way it saw the most play, and then it went down and it stopped. But for what it's worth I don't think that plus three is always broken. I think that a free plus three is broken, right? If I'm talking about plus threes, I can just as easily argue that Ironheart is not broken. I can argue that Medusa is not broken. I can argue that Vulture is not, right? There are plenty of plus threes that have existed in Marvel Snap, and they are fine. The problem is if I, if you get a plus three for minimal effort, like Xu Lao was doing uh, Galacta used to do, stuff like that, that's where the problem arises. So I'm personally fine with a plus three. However, I would definitely just argue that if there's a plus three, there needs to be a cost to what you're actually trying to do

Alex 21:30

Yeah, no, I absolutely understand. I like how we're talking about, like, OTAs, like, through the years now. We went all the way back to the Morgan Le Fay one. Yeah. Like, we're talking about going backwards. We've gone so backwards now. Mm-hmm. Uh, but yeah, so generally speaking, like, I'm very happy with the OTA schedule that we have. I'm glad they attempt to keep- Yeah the game fresh. But I also would like to see them take bigger chances. Like, for me- Oh, yeah the one that really stands out to me, and I don't wanna use, like, the phrasing lazy. I'm not a game developer, and I, again, I love Marvel Snap and ev- everyone that, you know, I've had the pleasure of interacting with at Second Dinner have been amazingly w- lovely people. But the Major Victory change feels lazy. It's just one of those ones where like, yeah, you could add plus one power to him, or he could be a three-three that adds two members of the crew with negative one cost and cut Mantis. Like, you coulda, you coulda cooked more with this. Yeah. Plus one isn't really the thing, right? And they've done it before. Like Spider-Man Noir, they just give him plus one. But they completely reworked the ability before, and it's way better now than it was at launch. And that's what it- Oh my gosh, so much better should have been in the first place, right? Yeah. That's what I'm just saying. Like, Major Victory wasn't plus one power. It needed more attention than that.

Mass Effect Tangent

notmydance 22:36

Yeah. I agree. I think... I don't even know if it's... I feel like it's just a, we'll try the easy thing first, right? Like- Yeah, sure if you why have, why bring out a jackhammer if you're, uh, and a construction crew and everything if you can take care of it with a hammer and a few nails in the end? So it's like, try a point of power here. See if it matters. And when it doesn't, not if, I'm saying when, for this card in particular, that's when you probably do some more stuff. But you could also argue, okay, well, they just did that immediately if you look at, uh, again, Noir, as you mentioned. But also, they still did that, and it still needed more.

Back To Cards Order Chaos

Alex 23:07

I know this is very random, but when you said, like you mentioned Jack, and I know some people would've thought, like, oh, card Jack Flagg. For me, Jack always brings up Negasonic Teenage Warhead for me, and I know this is psycho, but listen to this. Everyone that played Mass Effect, remember Jack, the character? Negasonic reminds me, this particular art reminds me of Jack from Mass Effect. And so for me, they are analogous with one another. So long story short, that is completely irrelevant to the conversation, but I just wanna sh- shout out every Mass Effect enjoyer out there. It's literally my favorite game series in history. Like, yeah. That's fair. I almost wanna go back and play Mass Effect again. That's just... I don't know why I'm talking about Mass Effect right now. What we should be talking about is we should be talking about, we're gonna go all the way back. We're gonna talk about She-Hulk and Daredevil. We're gonna do it in the right order. All right.

notmydance 23:53

Do

Alex 23:53

you wanna do it in the right order or no?

notmydance 23:55

This is your boat. I'm just riding on it. Whatever you wanna say.

Alex 23:58

Well, you know what? I, we- we both got hands on the wheels here. We're, we're sharing. We're, uh, what's it? S- Scooby, Scoobing and Doc? What are those two guys? Uh... Scoob-

notmydance 24:07

D- Are you trying to say Scooby-Doo? Not Scooby-Doo.

Alex 24:09

It was Scooby and Doc? Weren't those... Oh there's some TV show from, like, a long time ago.

notmydance 24:14

Ah. I'm too... I, I'm-

Alex 24:16

Captain Scoobins, isn't it? Stooping? Captain... Oh, man. See, it's even old for me. Don't look it up. I don't know. I just remember- I

notmydance 24:24

definitely am looking it up, but you can go ahead and talk about

Alex 24:27

that. Okay, you look it up and figure out what I'm supposed to say. It's like Captain Scooping and Doc or something like that, and that was, like, a show from w- my dad- Okay used to watch it when I was a kid. No? Okay. I'm

notmydance 24:36

l- I'm looking this I'm looking this up. Go ahead. I think... I, I might have something here. I'll figure it out.

Alex 24:40

Okay. While you're kinda trying to figure out what I'm talking about, I'm gonna introduce Shadowlands Daredevil, the season pass card, who I gotta be totally honest with you, is seeing way more play than I expected. Mm. My original in- initial impressions of this card was like, it's not great. Even playing it now, I'm still like, I'm not convinced that this card is great. And I know that sounds crazy, because, like, even when I did, like, my top 10 decks, this card was everywhere. The decks that people cooked were legit. And, uh, the Techno-Organic Virus is a big part of that. Like, there are good decks with this card. But Dan, it's like, if I'm wrong, like, tell me, but I still don't feel sold. I'm not trying to be contrarian, but I still- Sure don't think I love this card yet. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I would love your take on Shadowlands Daredevil.

notmydance 25:30

And my favorite thing to do is to be contrary and then say I'm not being contrarian.

Alex 25:34

Yeah. It's one of the- Is that what I'm

Why It Overperforms

notmydance 25:36

doing? I, no, and I, oh, I could argue yes, but I, I understand it. When I first looked at this card, I thought it was gonna be crap. I, I just did not have any hope for this card. Yeah, me too. Um, but... What was it? So I got to, when I mess with Wilson Fisk'cause, you know, whenever you get the new card, I try to mess with it for a second, figure out what decks work with it. And I was playing with it, and I was like,"Okay, well, Shadowlands Daredevil feels like they have similar things." And I just messed it. I'm like,"Wait, this card just is, like, really good." And I just kept using it more, and I just kept getting it to big numbers. I really like this card. I really... And I had to... I remember I, there was one point when I was at least making the video, and I had to stop myself, and I said,"Okay, wait, hold up. I'm starting to make a Shadowlands Daredevil highlight instead." Wow. Because I was supposed to make a Wilson Fisk one, it just didn't matter. I really enjoy this card. I think it's a big... It doesn't have to be a super crazy card. It's just a big number. And I think as a, in a game where we are so combo-centric currently, right? That's how the meta feels, very combo-focused, all of those things. It feels so interesting to have a card that can just do big numbers and be a ramper, a, a two-cost card, and still be really cool and really powerful. I think it's a powerful card. I think it's a lot of fun. I don't, I... Like, would you like me to try to sell you on it or just, like, disagree? How would you like me to take you here?

Alex 26:47

I want you to disagree with me.

notmydance 26:50

Okay.

Deck Dilution Debate

Turning Demons Into Upside

Alex 26:50

And I want you to also sell me on it, because I'm still not convinced. Like, I know there's gonna be people in the comments who'll be like,"Alex is so wrong. He sucks at evaluating cards." And that's totally fine. Both of those are absolutely true sometimes. I'll tell you right now, that was Shadowlands Daredevil I don't even think this card's better than, like, OG Chamber, and maybe it's on the range of, like, OG Moon Dragon, which, uh, which need to get nerfed eventually. But, like, I think that Chamber put up power easier than Shadowlands Daredevil does and never diluted the deck. I am very concerned with... Like, yeah, one six demons are good. Don't get me wrong. They're great. But also, you're adding three cards to your deck, and like, yeah, you're running King Etri to draw one, and that's cool. But you're running King Etri as one of your 12 cards. Like, you're running- Mm-hmm a trash-tier card to enable your Season Pass card. Like, I just I don't see it. And, like, my concern, and, like, I still don't stand behind, like, I think this card is, like, a recommendation, like, go spend your 10 bucks on yet. And again, I'm happy to be wrong, but, like, it's one of those ones where I'm like,"I can see this card disappearing after this season." Like, I don't know if this has the staying power. And if I'm wrong, so be it, but, like- Mm I'm kind of wondering about what this card's staying power is when, like, I don't... I see the deck dilution. It gets to seven, nine power, like, regularly. Two seven, two nine, you take that, but it's also adding three cards to your deck. And you're right, Marvel Snap tends to be so combo-centric, so that's kind of the reason why I'm not sold.

notmydance 28:18

So do you think a two nine is good?

Alex 28:20

Hell yeah, I think it's good.

notmydance 28:22

And I think the other interesting thing you mentioned there was, right, you consider the demons a downside, right?'Cause they're,'cause- The dilution of

Alex 28:27

demons the dilution

notmydance 28:28

of the- Yeah

Alex 28:29

demons a downside, yes.

notmydance 28:30

Is, how do you, how would you make it not a downside is my question. How do you make the demons not a downside?'Cause I think that's the part about Shadowlands Daredevil that really sells him. Trying to make whatever... Right? You have to use the whole ability. How can you make that ability an upside? H- what can you do with that? Uh, and the thing I've seen the most when messing with, uh, all of, an, uh, like, looking at untab, looking at these stats, whatever, the decks that I've messed with. By the way, uh, Love Boat?

Alex 28:54

Yes, The Love Boat. Was it- That's, that's

notmydance 28:56

it. That was, I think, the show. Yes, uh- What were their names? just to make sure. Uh, s- Stooping, Captain Stooping and Doc, I think, is what it was.

Alex 29:04

Yes, that's it. And I remember'cause I think-

notmydance 29:06

Yeah

Alex 29:06

Ace Ventura yelled it at some point.

Core Package And Stats

notmydance 29:08

Yes, that's what I kept seeing, and I was like,"I don't think it's Ace Ventura," but yeah. Uh, Ace Ventura mentioned, uh, apparently yelled that at one point during his movie as well. But, right, so the biggest thing I've seen with Shadowlands Daredevil is, again, I, Techno-Organic Virus allows you to use, uh, what's it? King Etri, but then once you've used that activate in order to draw that additional card, right? So King Etri, if you argue, with the logic of f- it, just that one activate, if Shadowlands Daredevil's on the board, is a one five, which gives you a good benefit there. I've also seen, the other fun thing I've really enjoyed is, uh, Adam Warlock index I don't know if you've seen that as well, but Adam Warlock- I haven't seen that yet being able to come back, that's a fun card. But again, final turn of the game, you finish off that priority, and you just get to turn Adam Warlock into another card. I think the Techno-Organic Virus is doing a lot of selling for Shadowlands Daredevil, and the number one thing I think I've seen that has really made Shadowlands Daredevil soar is Martyr. Because again- Yes the Techno-Organic Virus can turn her, uh, off the downside of her. So if you're looking at trying to figure out, like, what you can be doing with Shadowlands Daredevil, trying to make that benefit worthwhile, putting a lot of really big cards, like Martyr. And the package I've seen the most, right, is Dar- Shadowlands Daredevil, Adam Warlock Martyr, Itri, Virus, and Fisk. It's like those six cards, that's like half of the, of the decks I think just basically right there. Maybe one or two of, of them are, like, slightly different without, like, an Adam or without a Fisk. But those, tha- those six, five and a half-ish, really can put out just a bunch of points on their own, and making sure you've got a good supporting cast. The number one deck right now is just running, I think, uh, two other tech cards with just Stardust and Cosmic Ghost Rider for other pieces, and then just being able to put out enough big points elsewhere. Wi- in a game that I feel like we're caring a lot about one or two lanes or whatever, you don't get the opportunity to feel like any lane is completely safe from Shadowlands Daredevil because of the demons. Because if I'm abandoning a lane, it only takes one energy from my opponent in order for them to put six power in another lane using those demons effectively. And not just the demons, again, with that virus, if the virus, you play it onto the board and it infects whatever other cards are there, you're putting points in whatever lane was already previously infected, whatever, all of the points into that lane you now are infecting, and your opponent still can't know that. And there's a lot of little things with Tech- with Techno-Organic Virus, the whole deck, that I think can let you build up to a really big finish. And the d- I honestly think the deck's pretty powerful. I think that Shadowlands Daredevil actually is raising the bar, but I love the qu- I think the question that you said before is absolutely phenomenal, in which I wonder how much staying power he really has. Because I do think he's really powerful. I think he's really strong. And honestly, up until that point, I feel like I was arguing potentially for a nerf, but the question of how well it will stay come future seasons is, I think, a very real conversation.

Alex 32:05

I love everything you said there. And it sounded to me like you were really selling Techno-Organic Virus-

notmydance 32:10

I really

Alex 32:11

checked- more than you were selling- trying to not sell Techno-Organic Virus Shadowlands Daredevil. Right? Yeah. And that's the thing, though, right? Like, that's not lost on me, right? Yeah. And you're right, the deck's doing great. Like, right now with, uh, Untap-based stats, ranked 80 through infinite, um, you're looking at a 59.9% win rate on 9,000 games on the deck that you're referring to with the Cosmic Ghost Rider Stardust. It's awesome. You take that all day long. There's no question. Mm-hmm. That is awesome. But, like, for me, it's like I'm wondering if that's more about- the Techno-Organic Virus than it is the Shadowlands Daredevil. But with also, that deck is constructed very intelligently for Shadowlands Daredevil because it's running things like the, um... Obviously, you got Lizard, you got, uh, Ebony Maw in there, Wilson Fisk. All of these are gonna be proccing the Shadowlands Daredevil, getting that plus two very consistently, and it has that on Warlock that you described, uh, as well. So you're right. Like, you're building into, like, the fact that you get this down on turn two. It's gonna be consistently gaining power as you draw through your cards while also using these very high-power cards to maintain initiative so that you can also have the most powerful card in play for Wilson Fisk as well. So, like, I see it, but I almost wonder, like, if you cut Shadowlands Daredevil from this deck, is that deck still good?

notmydance 33:24

I don't think so because of the argument that w- would you have said virus was good a week ago, like, before Shadowlands Daredevil came out? I don't think I would've.

Alex 33:33

Oh my God. So I have been such an enjoyer of Sha- of Techno-Organic Virus. Me too. Um, I'm a- I'm actually one of the few people that were like,"I love this card. I love the design. I think it's great. It's, like, my most-played card of last season." I actually love it, but I'll tell you right now, it came as a s- to a surprise to me that it was most effective in Shadowlands Daredevil decks. Hmm. That's not where I had anticipated it going, to be honest with you. And, um, I, I did see the potential there and I did experiment with it'cause of, like, naturally you look at, like, Martyr, Lizard, and, like, you start to think about, like, how you can take advantage of that, and naturally you go to Shadowlands Daredevil. I didn't go all the way through with, like, the star brands and the other stuff that these decks are, have been playing. So, like, yeah, it kinda took me by surprise, but I've loved Techno-Organic Virus since its launch. I thought that was a fantastic super premium season pass card. It seemed like- Hmm a puzzle that needed to be solved, and it's kinda fascinating to me that it gets solved the next season. Like, it becomes relevant. It gets a buff, notable, gets a buff, and then it becomes relevant next season with the addition of a new card, and I'm not even convinced. I'd be straight up honest with you, I don't think Second Dinner was on this type of interaction. I don't think they expected Techno-Organic Virus to be the best way to play Shadowlands Daredevil.

notmydance 34:46

I... All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you an inverse and I'm gonna com- I think I'm completely disagreeing with you, in which I think they definitely expected this, and I wanna bet that they balanced Techno-Organic Virus and Shadowlands Daredevil together.

Alex 34:58

Really?

notmydance 34:59

B- s- for a similar logic, I'm gonna argue, I think, like, one of the second-best decks in Marvel Snap, I'd argue, is... Have you seen the one with, like, uh, Wolverine Horseman of War, Mother Askani, and such?

Alex 35:09

Yes, I have.

notmydance 35:10

I wanna bet that Wolverine Horseman of War was balanced around Mother Askani. Yeah. And I feel like they've done that in the past, where if you go all the way back to the zombie season, right? They balanced the whole horde package around having all the cards, they said. But e- but they only gave us a couple And so when we started messing with them, it really sucked, and so they had to buff that deck up quickly'cause they're like,"Oh, hey, we balanced this whole deck around being able to use all these cards." And I feel like that's something that they do fairly often, and the release order for these cards really matters, because I don't think they're taking that into account all the time.

Alex 35:47

There's another example of that, too, and it's Invisible Woman, Fantastic Four: First Steps. Yeah. That whole season it's like the decks were okay, but it wasn't until we got the Invisible Woman: Fantastic Four: First Steps that we had, like, a full bird's-eye-view picture of what that meta could look like for the season. It's like the whole- Yeah season was waiting until we got the Invisible Woman: Fantastic Four: First Steps. 100%. So, like, yeah, I absolutely... You know what? Now that you say that, you're right, because these cards, they don't exist in a vacuum. I, I really like- Mm-hmm what you said there, 100%.

Villainous Design Detour

notmydance 36:16

Yeah, no, I, I remember when they talked about Invisible Woman: First Steps because they did... They said in particular, they were like,"This is a meta game that will not exist again if we release her immediately." So they made a point to release her until the end, which was a weird... It, I mean, it's a... I don't know. It's just because I think they were just, they wanted to see it, and they wanted to see if it was maybe better or worse without it. I don't know if that is a good choice, but I still, I don't know. That's what they did. But right I did a, I did some work on a d- different game a while ago different Marvel game called Marvel Villainous. I really enjoyed that game. But it was a board game.

Alex 36:46

Yeah,

notmydance 36:46

I love that- And- board game,

Alex 36:47

actually. I have a, like, a big box of, like, of a bunch of them. Yeah, I think it's great.

notmydance 36:51

Oh, yeah. I... So I... Actually, I got to design a couple of those characters. I didn't

Alex 36:55

know that. You actually worked on it?

notmydance 36:57

Yeah. Actually, if you... What is it? If... Give the yellow box with Dr. Octopus.

Alex 37:02

I... You know what? I got a... I'll send you a picture later. I can go, I can go get them. If you wanna talk, I'll go get my Villainous stuff. I don't know if you wanna

notmydance 37:07

talk about that. Yeah, sure, I'll ta- I could... Do you have, like... Well, I, I could wait a sec, or we could, like, do a cut, uh, just to show it,'cause I can... Or I have it over here as well, but I, uh, otherwise we just gonna have to walk. Why don't I go

Alex 37:15

grab it while you talk and explain what you did on the project?

notmydance 37:18

Okay, sure, yeah. So I guess while Alex does that. So what I did on the project was I actually got the opportunity to design t- a couple of the characters characters Kang the Conqueror and Titania. Uh, both those characters were a lot of fun. I also got to design the common Fate deck of that g- game. If you understand that, you'll understa- understand what I'm talking about. But I, in general, I do play testing for that company. So one of the things that we were play testing, the box that it came prior to it was the Venom box. And so what... With that Venom box, we actually were play testing the prior box, the Venom box, at the same time that we were play testing, uh, that yellow box with Dr. Octopus. So th- he was balanced around some of the stuff that was coming out about, uh, like, a, a half a, or a year or so later. And so that was part of the same logic because it, that's just kind of the way that stuff happens sometimes. You have a bunch of stuff you're trying to design, and maybe the actual, like, release of it might change. But yeah, the... If you actually have it, uh, my name's on the ba- I think in the rule book, I wanna say. Uh, it's probably like the last page

Alex 38:18

I have three, three things. So I have this one, which is like the s- like the starter- Oh, yeah introduction. And then I have this here, this expansion pack.

notmydance 38:27

There you go, yep.

Alex 38:28

I don't have, I don't have the Marvel one. I have this one. It's all, uh, Disney specifically.

notmydance 38:33

Ah, yep. Yep. So- No, there's th- uh, there's three different versions. There's m- Disney, Marvel, and Star Wars. Actually, uh, that's what all these little image things are behind me. These are all, like, the little figurines from that, and this is the... this is a puzzle of Thanos in Marvel Villains. I'm a very big fan of Marvel Vil- uh, Villains as a whole. I've spent a lot of time on that game.

Alex 38:55

Oh, I had no idea. No idea. Yeah. Yeah. I got this, uh,'cause my, my daughter loves board games and stuff like that, so I wanted to get something that her and I can play together with, and this was one of the ones that, uh, she chose off the shelf. So that's why I have it.

Buffs And Balance Theory

notmydance 39:06

Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. No, that's, uh, that's really cool. No, 100%, but it's just... Right, so it's... I feel like it's just the releasing of these cards, right? You're balancing a bunch of stuff. You're trying to make, uh, some sort of mechanic, and whether or not that actually gets released in the correct order, like at the same time that you planned everything out, I think that can change. And so I feel like, I think it's a fair thing to potentially argue that Techno-Organic Virus maybe was balanced around Shadowlands Daredevil, because they also had to buff it a season like a prior season. According to Data Mine, Shadowlands Daredevil also got buffed, uh, from a 2/2 to 2/3, I think, in the... I wanna say a, a few weeks ago, a- a week or two ago. So, like, I... There's a lot of that stuff where they aren't certain about these and maybe stuff changes as people actually started getting the cards, because maybe in their testing they thought Techno-Organic Virus at giving plus two with Shadowlands Daredevil was gonna be busted. Then they released it. They're like,"Oh, wait, we don't have the Shadowlands piece of this puzzle," as you mentioned. And so they had to bring it down to a plus one cost. And then they're like,"Wait a sec, but it's still not even performing that good. Maybe Shadowlands Daredevil still needs some extra points." So they put one more point. That's my, like, conspiracies theory. Picture the, the emoji or the emote of Mobius, like, doing the whole, like, clip on the- Yeah, like the- hardcore thing. He's like, fre- Yeah yeah, he's, like, freaking out or whatever. Yeah. Basically, that's my logic for all that stuff, though.

Alex 40:21

For me, it's definitely overperformed expectations. And that that's cool. I'm glad it's doing well. And as, as I said before- Mm like, still concerned about how these decks shape up, espe- especially, like, post-Infinite,'cause right now our stats are still being-

notmydance 40:33

Yeah

Star Rating Verdict

Alex 40:34

like, muddled a little bit with bots,'cause everyone's making their way towards Infinite, which is totally cool. Uh, so we'll have to see how it shakes up, and only time will tell. Uh, so we always do star ratings. What is your impression star rating-wise from one to five on Shadowlands Daredevil off the get-go here?

notmydance 40:48

I feel like I'm just gonna say four. And I, I know it's not really anything crazy. I don't think I can say five for this card. Maybe I can't, or maybe I should, I don't know. But it's just, like, I feel like it's just a four-star card. But whether or not it's a very good card is a conversation, but also due to the fact that it is only inside of specific decks makes me pull back from even giving it anything higher. Which four-star's pretty sick, in my opinion.

Alex 41:08

No, it is. And I, I would agree. It's, it's playing, and the stats would indicate it's a four-star card. When I've played it, it feels like a three-and-a-half-star card. So, like, I'm still trying to bridge that gap between, like, maybe I'm the one who's wrong. You know what I mean? And like, I'm still trying to give it a shot and stuff like that. And sometimes we just vibe with different cards, right? Like- Yeah again, I was so hyped up on Techno- Or- Organic Virus last season. I loved it, and it still needed a buff, and I didn't care. It was just Gravion, Gravion at, uh, at the end of the day'cause I was like,"I'm playing with Mobius and Mobius anyway. I don't care." I was playing the Pixie stuff. It was just so much fun to play. Yes. I couldn't stop playing it, whether or not it got buffed regardless, right? So, uh, yeah, maybe I just didn't vibe with this. And, uh, that's cool because, like, I'm glad it's doing well. And it's also running a very high play rate. Like, I think it's being sold. It's running a 23.5% play rate right now. On aggregate, the decks are running a 57% win rate across the board. This is on tap-based statistics over the last seven days. Mm-hmm. Rates 82/100 as of recording, which I guess we're recording this on Sunday, Sunday afternoon. So yeah, like, it's doing good. There's no doubt about it. Mm-hmm. It's definitely doing good, and that's great because if, uh, if you're someone who does purchase the season pass, you want it to be relevant, right? You don't want it to- Yeah to be oppressive. Like, we don't want that type of meta where it's oppressive which I- I'm actually grateful for. I feel like you don't have to play Shaola and his Daredevil to get to infinite. Whereas it felt like- Yeah if you weren't playing, like, Shaola, you were at a massive disadvantage. Like, I think that, like, this is a better card, a better release than Shaola was. Like, the game is better off with these types of releases, where we can have a debate whether or not, like, I think it's good, but, like, I don't think it's great, and you're like,"I think it might actually be great." That's a good thing. When we both come on here- Yeah and we're both like,"Yeah, this card's stupid. Like, you're crazy not to get it. Look at it, I'm putting up 70 points." Like, that sucks. Like, that's bad for Marvel Snap. Yeah. This release good. Those releases bad. So, like, I'm actually for it despite the fact that, like, I'm not sold yet. I would prefer this all day compared to Shaola.

notmydance 43:01

You know what I think makes this card so good is the fact that it's not easy to duplicate this effect. If we look at the previous, like, two busted season pass cards, it's Xu Lao and Sun Lord, uh, Star-Lord: Master of Sun. And Xu Lao, right, hit... The whole thing was,"Okay, I'm gonna put points into a Maverick, into a Scarlet Spider, who's going then to double and then maybe double again because of its cost," right? And to basically break the card as much you can, put as many, squeeze as many points out of it as possible. Similarly with Sun Lord, where it's like,"Okay, cool, I'm going to even just at a four cost, all Zola. I'm gonna Abs Man. I'm gonna Grandman." We're running every single copying effect we can find just to try to do it as many times possible. And when you look at Shadowland's Daredevil How am I supposed to copy this effect? I don't think there's really a way to, and it just, like, it forces more of a fair game. And so I think it's probably, again, easier to say that it could be balanced because how... I, I don't know how to break this card.

Alex 43:55

And I guess a- it's a good thing as well that, like, the on reveal is shuffle three demons in. Mm-hmm. Because if you don't draw it and you don't play it, then your deck's not diluted. So, like, there is that element to it as well, where some cards feel, like, completely dead if you draw them late. This is also that kind of, but on the other side of it, it's not disruptive. Like, if you're playing a Thanos deck and you're all about getting the Power Stone down, putting all the stones down, you never... Well, you're gonna draw Thanos'cause it forces you to. Never mind, it's a bad example. You know what I mean though, right? Like, you don't disrupt- Oh your deck if you don't play the card. It's,

notmydance 44:23

you still don't, don't get it sometimes, right?'Cause Pha- Yeah maybe Space Stone doesn't happen. It, it could still happen. I could see it.

Alex 44:28

Yeah.

notmydance 44:28

I would be... What would it be? Maybe, uh, I, I, Agamotto still forces it as well. I don't know. But I, I think Thanos

Alex 44:34

is fine. Yeah, for sure. Just

notmydance 44:35

to argue it.

Alex 44:36

And I mean, that's, that's the thing though, right? A lot of the cards that dilute your deck, they have methods to getting it out. Like, you have to portal manipulation to pull Agamotto out. Daredevil needs Yggdrasil, and even then, there's still dilution there. But I mean, that's the same for Thanos. I guess it all is the same. I don't know what I'm talking about. So long story short, let's move on to the super premium season pass card now. It's so

notmydance 44:55

difficult to compare cards, is the problem,

Testing Against Bots

Alex 44:57

I think. It is. And it's hard to compare them in a vacuum as well. And that's why I'll tell you, like, okay, both of us have had the opportunity to do, like, like the highlight videos, the spotlight videos for Second Dinner- Yeah stuff like that, where we get, like, a little, like a little behind-the-scenes baseball for you guys. Which I think this is a couple times we've said that already on this podcast. We get, like, a little beta of client, like a little test client- Mm-hmm that's good for a little bit, where we get to, like, test the new card to make content on and stuff like that. And I'll tell you, when you have a complete blank slate, like a month in advance of the card releasing, and you're sitting there and you're playing against these, like, trash bots, and you're trying to, like, test things, it's hard to, like, figure out- Oh, yeah what's optimal when you, you aren't facing meta decks. And, like, when you are... Like, Second Dinner would absolutely have to have actual play testers legitimately being like,"Hey, I'm running, like, meta move, and you're gonna play Wilson Fisk, Technorganic." Like, they have- Yeah. You cannot just sit there with bots and think you're gonna get a good idea of, like, the power levels. It just does not work that way. And so, like, in a vacuum, it's absolutely challenging to figure, uh, figure these out, for sure. And once it gets out into the world and millions of players are getting to cook, someone's gonna break something, right? It's, uh, it's amazing what a community can do with a card that some people might be underwhelmed with.

notmydance 46:10

Yeah. So I didn't have enough time to mess with, uh, with Wilson Fisk because, uh, I was out of town bef- like I had mentioned before. And I got back in town, and they're like,"All right, cool, you need to get this, uh, we need this video in, like, four days or whatever." So I asked Second Dinner basically, I was like,"Hey- I don't have enough time for this because I've just now been given access to this stuff and I was out of town. Uh, I actually, uh, got permission to get one of the other, like, top players, uh, in Marvel Snap, uh, shout out to Borum. Borum plays, uh, he, uh, he was given permission as well from Second Dinner, and he actually was jumping in calls with me and we spent hours with Wilson Fisk, and doing exactly what you just talked about, right? Getting meta decks to play against for myself because I hate trying to play against bots and figure out what's good and what's not, because it doesn't work, like you mentioned. So I, I, so I made a point to say, like,"Hey, can I, can I get someone else to assist me here?" And they said yes, so I grabbed him in and we spent forever, and he was playing good decks and all that stuff, and we spent a long time trying to figure out what actually works with Wilson Fisk. Because I think people were expecting like,"Okay, I'll play Supergiant," because that was the best deck at the time. We all... But again, inside baseball stuff, especially because of the video, we got to know, like, the OTA in advance. And so I was learning, oh, right, they're killing the big three. Supergiant's gonna be a lot less of a deck a- after this. It's still gonna be good, but it's gonna be a lot less. What are we running still? And so trying to figure out all that stuff and play with every single, like, change and all that stuff in advance is really what we were trying to mess with and figure out. And so that's... It changes so much more once you actually get the opportunity to break the card and mess with people who know what they're doing.'Cause I don't know, I hate the bots in Marvel Snap. I think we talked about this a while last time I was on here. I just, I hate the bots in Marvel Snap'cause it's just... I don't know. It feels like the game doesn't matter. It, no matter what, it's, it feels like there is a predetermined end for the game. The bot's either meant to beat you or meant to lose to you, and you're wasting whatever time you're spending.

Bot Problems And Feedback

Alex 48:04

I absolutely agree. Literally yesterday I sent feedback on bots, uh, because it came up with some other creators as well. They were discussing the bot play. I'll tell you right now, I've been saying it for the longest time, I can tell you exactly when the bots changed for the worst. It was when they include- they started creating the, uh, infinite borders, like the ones that you can get for getting the infinite and stuff like that.

notmydance 48:22

Mm.

Alex 48:22

Remember how they did those fire borders, you get to infinite, right?

notmydance 48:24

Yeah.

Alex 48:25

Yeah. So once they in- started doing that, which I think was last summer, they made a major modification to the bots, which made it significantly worse. And I think that, like, you do have definite cheating bots. And I remember, and w- this is what, the sixth time we're saying, a little bit of inside baseball here. So Dexter and I were on stage at PAX on a brand-new build that I had miraculously- Mm-hmm got working on my laptop. This was, this is a whole other story. We basically were, uh, doing a presentation in front of a live audience at PAX and that, which was so cool. But we got on stage and, like, the build that they provided, like the actual organizers, weren- wasn't working, and there was like tons of people, like, waiting, like just staring at us like,"When are they gonna start?" And I'm like,"Oh my God." So I, I pulled out my laptop And like, I had a build because I was doing a video for them, and I got it to work. Like, I live troubleshooted it and hooked everything up to the laptop. It was crazy. Like, everyone watching wouldn't have realized that, like, it was the most clutch technical performance of my career. Like, standing live in front of an audience and, like, hashing out the tech problems with Second Dinner's build to get it to work. And it was so funny. And anyways, where I'm going with this story, I'm struggling to remember. Oh. W- where I'm going with the story was we were ranked two'cause we started, like, a brand new account and everything like that. Dexter and I were playing. Yeah. And live on stage at rank two, not rank two infinite, rank two getting to infinite, like your third game ever, we got eight-cubed clapped by a bot. And we were like,"Bro, that was ruthless." And I know it was a bot because in the client, I- There's no one else there's no one else. Like, that's it. Like, we're, like... Th- no one could have connected to us. Like, we were playing a bo- and I was like,"You got to be kidding me." Like, in front of a live audience, eight-cubed just slammed. I was like,"Bruh." And like, and then it's funny'cause, like, uh, afterwards, and like, again, the, the, the couple of the designers came up and we were speaking afterwards. They were like, uh, We're glad we saw that because that's not supposed to happen." And I'm like,"Thank you. I've been telling you guys for months these bots are cracked." They're like,"We're gonna look into it." I'm like,"Thank you. Please do."

notmydance 50:35

Let's go.

Alex 50:36

And that was in March. So I don't know if it's anything's happened. I'd,

notmydance 50:39

I'd- But, uh be surprised if anything has happened. I, the, sp- I don't know. I don't expect any... i'm not even trying to be rude to Second Dinner, straight up. I actually am trying to be kinder to them when I say this. I don't expect anything from them. When n- when they say they're working on something, I expect it seven months down the line minimum- Yeah is when I'm expecting stuff. At, and when you say draft mode, it adds three more years.

Dev Responsiveness Lately

Alex 50:58

Probably. I will say, though, that sometimes, like my I don't wanna say, like, I got the bleeding heart or anything like that, but sometimes I'm like, man, like, I've met a lot of their team, and they are wonderful people who are clearly trying their best. And it sounds like- Mm-hmm game development is hard. And it's like- Oh, yeah and we have this like,"Hey, like, why aren't you fixing this?" And it's like, there's not that many people here. Like, we are trying. And the, the one thing that really... I'll tell you, there's, there's one thing, though. Guys, there's one thing. Can, can we not make the alliance mission board better? Can we not just, like, can you not just, like, add a variable where it just adds more rows of more better missions? Like, why is the board so bad still? I, I don't know. But, uh, I have to tell you though, like, from a creator's perspective, we're gonna talk inside baseball for the 15th time this podcast. Since- J- like, last year we're inside ba-

notmydance 51:43

baseball backwards order. That's, everything's out of whack here. Yeah. I love it

Shoutout Second Dinner

Alex 51:46

I have to tell you guys, like just I'll tell you that, uh, I feel like Second Dinner's been incredibly more responsive over the last year. They're definitely listening to feedback. I know I feel more heard. I don't know if you feel the same. Like Brady, who does a lot of the work behind the scenes for the creator teams, like the, the... He's a godsend. Like I'm telling you right now, the hardest working guy- Mm-hmm I've ever seen in games. Truly remarkable, like whatever his job description is, he's doing 55 times more than what he's supposed to be. He's remarkable. So yeah, like Second Dinner- Yeah has given it their best. I feel it. I see it. And I just hope that it reflects in the game, and of course with the player base'cause I'll just tell you guys, it's... They're trying. Like I actually, I do see it. They're trying.

notmydance 52:27

Mr. Griffin.

Back to Wilson Fisk

Alex 52:28

Yeah. Yeah. We do miss Griffin. All right. Yep. Should we talk about Wilson Fisk or...'Cause he's been on the screen. Oh, yeah. That's where we started. Well, this is, I think- I don't know what happened this

Podcast Tangents

notmydance 52:37

is where we s- I don't know. It's like 500 tangents. It's fine. I, there's a reason I do a different podcast called Marvel Yap. It's because I can't... I don't know. I love yapping. I've listened to

Alex 52:45

this- Well, we're gonna have to... We have to link by the way. Like if you're listening to this podcast, you also have to listen to that one as well, and we have to get Tucker on, too. Maybe, you know what, Tucker next week maybe. You gonna g- get him on?'Cause he, yeah, he just had a little baby, so it's been- Yeah his schedule's been a little more difficult, and, uh, we'll have to get Tucker on.

notmydance 53:02

Yeah, I could ask him. I could literally ask him right now because it what is it? Actually, I'll, I'll- We'll just do this as part of the

Alex 53:06

podcast

notmydance 53:07

in- inside base- I, I'll give you inside baseball.'Cause Tucker and I both, before we started doing content, we actually both listened to the Snapcast. And so when I first- Snapcast is another

Alex 53:16

excellent podcast.

notmydance 53:18

Gosh dang it, Snapchat. Too many, there are too many of'em. I'm sorry. Anyway, we've l- both were listening to the Snapchat, not the Snapcast. But when we- You're allowed to listen

Alex 53:25

to the Snapcast.

Fisk Card Breakdown

notmydance 53:27

There we go. But when we- so before we started doing any content, we were listening to the Snapchat. And so when I first got invited, we were stoked about that and, and I was like,"Bro, you, it's, it'll, it'll be your time at some point." And he, he sent me basically a screenshot of your guys' DMs where it was just like,"Hey, would, I'd love to have you on." He's like,"I got a kid. I can't right now." Like tomorrow. And it's just like this- Like they're going into labor tomorrow. Yeah, basically. Yeah. And the, the struggles of all that stuff back and forth and so it was so very much so he w- I, he'd be, he'd be down. I think he could be convinced is my personal bet. But, uh, because both him and I were st- are stoked for the other person and'cause he's the one I do the Marvel Yap with. I've, uh, and I, if, yeah, if and whenever you, you pull him on here, doesn't have to be next week, not giving you stuff you have to do there, he would... He's gonna be a great time whenever you do have him on. I think Wilson Fisk is a fun card. Sorry, just trying to go back to the actual conversation we were trying to have here as we get distracted again.

Alex 54:20

A lot of inside baseball today.

notmydance 54:23

Mm-hmm, yeah. I don't even

Alex 54:23

watch baseball.

notmydance 54:25

Me neither. I don't watch sports.

Alex 54:28

No sports at all?

notmydance 54:30

No, because- I work too much. I've got a lot of stuff I try to do. I try- I, I gotta do... I try to do some sort of content, which I suck at, like, doing anything in terms of consistent content. Uh, I got work, I have a wife, I've got... Also, I'm trying to actually get, like, a degree, so I'm in school. I don't have free time.

Alex 54:46

That's

notmydance 54:46

amazing. Not even mentioning, like, it's finals time right now for me, basically. So it's like the free time that I have is, uh... I'm surprised whenever I do get it, basically.

Alex 54:54

That's amazing, man. Th- those are all great things, though. Like, you're-

notmydance 54:58

Oh, yeah,

Alex 54:58

love it you're literally doing it, man. You're getting it done.

notmydance 55:01

Yeah. No, I love it. That's amazing. But, uh-

Alex 55:03

Do you love

notmydance 55:04

Wilson Fisk,

Alex 55:04

though?

Why Ties Count

notmydance 55:05

Yeah, I was gonna say, actually, again, more inside baseball speaking of Brady Brady, uh, asked me to change the thumbnail on this card. He was like,"Hey, can you send me about, like, Wilson Fisk getting it done instead for the thumbnail?" Like, and I think it s- it says, like, cleaning, cleans up your deck, meant to be, like, cleans up your street, cleans up the streets or whatever as, like, a mayoral thing. And so he was... What is it? I, he,'cause he really just liked that thumb- I was like,"Sure, I don't care. That's fine by me." Uh, and I think Wilson Fisk is just... I will just preview in terms of, like, what I rank this card. I think it's, like, a four and a half, potentially five, because it's just a good card. I think this is just a fine card that is just, yeah, cool, I can just play this for pretty easy, w- for whatever, and I think the biggest thing that works great about this is that... I don't remember if you expected it. Did you expect this card to work with ties?

Alex 55:47

No. No. I did not expect this card to work with, oh, I played a Hood down, and oh, that's all that's on the board, and they don't have anything. I guess he's discounted. Um, no, ties, that was... That's, like, one of those, like, what in Vegas, the dealer gets the dub? Yeah. Wilson Fisk is the dealer, and he got the dub. Like, I, the tie thing, I would never have imagined the tie working, but in theory, if you both have the highest power card in play, you have the highest power card in play- Yeah I guess. I don't know if that's in the spirit of what I would've thought it would, the way it would've worked, but here we go.

notmydance 56:19

I think they changed it to that way,'cause again, looking at, like, the data mines of future stuff, right? Uh, at one point he said he cost three if you have the highest power card in play in particular, according to data mines. And they changed it to this specific wording, right, where he's now a five-nine, again, for audio listeners, whatever. Costs three if you have the highest power among cards in play, and I think that wording was very specifically chosen so that people do understand potentially, like, or maybe hints more at, wait, no, it still could count for ties.'Cause I would argue even if it just said,"Have the highest power card in play," yeah, you do. So does your opponent. It's not like a... Whenever there's a tie, I feel like in sports, uh, w- beyond tiebreakers, which we don't really have a way to do that here in Marvel Snap, beyond tiebreakers, you just default both to whatever the higher position is. So if both of you get, like, sec- tie for first, you tie for first. You don't tie for second. There's not someone ahead of you. You both tie for first, and the next point would be three, third per, or third place. So that would be my logic still if this is the highest power card. And I'm glad he does work that way. I think it changes everything about this card, and I think the- The biggest acceptance or, like, shakeup, I think, that you- w- we w- have had with this card is Shadowlands Daredevil giving us a potential, like, two-seven on turn three.

Season Pass Stats

Alex 57:32

It's true. It's true. That could potentially be a massive, uh, advantage for the card, and it is running a 57% win rate and a 20% popularity. A 20% popularity on a Super Premium Season Pass card is actually kind of crazy. So I'm sure seconders' coffers are enjoying that. Uh, but yeah, overall, I think it's been... Again, like, going into the season, I was kinda, like, unimpressed. Like, I don't think the cards read great. Like, they did- Mm-hmm. Like, I'm just tell- I'm being honest with you. I didn't read these cards as being great, and Shadowlands Daredevil's been better than I expected. Wilson Fisk has been better than I expected. However, I will say that Wilson Fisk is being played in the exact decks that are making Shadowlands Daredevil look really good. So I'm wondering, I'm like, again, I don't wanna say the thing again, but, like, are they, are they one-tricking? Like, is there, like, a couple specific decks that are kinda carrying their stats? Like, I don't know, but, like, they're definitely overperforming expectations, and Wilson Fisk has proven to be good.

notmydance 58:26

Yeah. I feel like it's the package. I don't know if it's any specific deck, but I feel like it's those packages of cards like I mentioned before, where it's, like, the group of King Ytree, Martyr, Shadowlands, Techno, and stuff like that. Those are what really are pushing this, that certain group, and then, you know, 50/50 on Fisk out of Warlock or whatever. I feel like that's really what p- is pushing a lot of those decks more so than anything else because, I mean, this card's also seeing play outside of those decks. Uh, what is it? I mean, again, looking at untapped stuff, right? You've... It is being played, as mentioned before, in potentially some Supergiant stuff even without, uh, Shadowlands Daredevil if you're tr- specifically trying to exclude those. However, they do go really well together, and I think that's a good choice when they release a Season Pass card. And speaking of, God, I hate the nomenclature for these cards. This is the Super Premium Season Pass card. If you do an abbreviation, it's the SPSP card of this month. I hate that. I... Sorry, it's unrelated. It's just, I wish there was a better way to phrase each of those. But it's a really, it's a really cool card, and I think it's actually good that they are lifting each other up together and both pushing toward the benefit of, like, what the other card is wanting to do, but then still not completely being, like, made for... I don't know. It's, like, really... I like it. I just like it a lot.

Alex 59:39

Yeah, for sure. And, uh, I mean, the play rate would, would indicate that it is being successfully purchased and played, unlike, one, Karen Page, who... Regis was, like, ruthless on Karen Page, man. Absol- Not even, like, the effect being bad. He, like, hated Karen for some reason. But, like, he didn't, like... Not because he knew Karen. He just, like, just hated, like, the fact that she was just, like, a lady at a desk, and this is a super-powered card in Marvel Snap. I, I understand, but, like, anybody that has actually watched Daredevil, you can't hate Karen.

notmydance 1:00:10

I don't hate... I hate the fact that we're getting Karen Page before Mary Jane. I hate the fact that we're getting Karen Page before Foggy Nelson

Alex 1:00:18

These

notmydance 1:00:19

are great points I think they targeted Karen Page before, again, I'm gonna go with Aunt May, before, I don't know, Harry Osborn. Char- p- characters that are much more popular and well-known. And it als- also again, during a Daredevil season, we are getting Karen Page and not getting Foggy Nelson.

Alex 1:00:35

Foggy's awesome. I love Foggy.

notmydance 1:00:37

Yeah, 100%. I've... Do you, did, have you watched,'cause it feels like a lot of this stuff is, like, aligned with the show. Have you watched the show?

Alex 1:00:43

I've watched the first two seasons of the original one, and then I was, like, reading comments, and I was like,"Oh, man, everyone keeps spoiling things." So, like, I feel like I don't know if I'm gonna watch the other ones,'cause I already know half of what happens. Yeah, that's fair.

notmydance 1:00:54

Don't, please don't spoil

Alex 1:00:54

anything.

Is Karen Playable

notmydance 1:00:55

Oh, heck no. I wouldn't, I'm not, I'm not an ass. Uh, I would still recommend it. I, even being spoiled by it, I, I got spoiled by some stuff in the most recent season,'cause it had its season finale on, uh, what was it? I think it was Tuesday night, uh, basically when the season launched. And God, it wa- it's a very good show, and Foggy is fantastic. There's a episode in particular that really makes me stoked. I'm not s- giving any spoilers for anything, uh, but I loved it a lot. It's worth watching. But Karen Page, yes. Karen Page, I think, I was super low on this card, not even just because of, again, all the other characters that I think should've entered the game before her. But also, if I'm looking at this card, I also don't expect much from this, right? It's, it's a 4/5 that says,"On reveal, give one of your 1, 2, and 3 cost characters plus two power each." And if I read this card, it reads like a card that should've come out probably back in 2022. This is a card if you told me this was in the base of Marvel Snap, like when Marvel Snap released, I would've agreed. Yeah, makes sense. And we're getting it here today, and they said... D- did you read the team answers where they said this card was too good as a 4/6?

Alex 1:02:00

I... Someone told me that, and for me it was like,"Really?" But also I understand, like, maybe was there just too much with Karen and Daredevil? Like, I don't know. Like, obviously you would've played the two together, it would've made sense, but this much, this card too much as 4/6 seems mind-blowing to me. Because even, like, in... Like, I actually love the deck I played. I played, like, this, like, Wiccan, Rocks and Hawks style deck. I loved it. Mm-hmm. Because people are playing, like, people are playing Shadowlands Daredevil, and I'm playing Korg Rockslide and, like, Yeah Terrax. Oh my gosh, yes. I'm pumping the deck. But their deck is so diluted. I'm playing Cassandra Nova. Like, it's awesome. I love that deck, even till right now. The only thing problematic with that deck is people are actually playing Ozzy Mandias right now too, so they're taking the rocks and they're juicing them up. But, like, I... Karen Page could've absolutely been a 4/6. What are we talking about here? Yeah. This card could've absolutely been a 4/6.

notmydance 1:02:51

100, I'd agree with that 100%. I think this card should, most likely should've been a 4/6, and I had this card at, like, my lowest when I personally ranked this as well But I'm also at a point as after seeing it and messing with it and seeing people, again, like, like your video, right? Where you ta- play this and you're like,"Wait, no, actually I did kinda well with this." And other people who had like,"No, this card's really trash, but also I had a better win rate than I expected with this card." It's kinda like, okay, maybe it's better than we're giving it credit for. But also it's not good. I just think it's... I think we, I, myself, I'll, I won't say for everyone, I put her in the trash. I think a lot of the Marvel Snap community goes like,"Okay, this card's either busted or it's trash." I felt like it was trash, but I realize it's actually probably closer to playable than I initially expected, and I kinda still love that.

Alex 1:03:37

Yeah, no, it absolutely is. But the problem with it is, like, even in the deck that I had, had made with the Roxxon Hawks, your four drops are Karen, Rockslide, Wiccan. You always play Wiccan before Karen. You always play Rockslide before Karen. Karen's the backup when everything is going awry anyways. And so, like, it just doesn't stand on its own. So I was like,"Okay, what if I play it in, like, a new type of zoo deck where I'm running, like, Ka-Zar and Karen and, like, all this stuff?" And it just didn't seem like it was enough. And, like, it was like you're trying to cope a little bit. It just wasn't quite enough. And so, like, for me, I think 4-6 would've been absolutely fine. I think the play rates, like, all things considered, this thing has almost no play. Like, it is getting, if I scroll up here- Mm-hmm fi- it has a 54% win rate, which is honestly pretty good. Uh, but it only has 3% popularity. Right. Like, it's not doing awful, but, like, like, the Roxxon Hawk decks is, is doing fair enough, and then you got the, uh... There is a, a stronger variation, which is, like, the Wilson Fisk glastic, uh, Galactix Fantastic Four first, uh, steps deck, which is running a 57% win rate overall. Great cube rate, too. Those are all good decks, and so Karen's, like, finding a reason to exist. But also, like, if you wanna make those decks better, you're probably cutting Karen, right? Like, she's the one that goes- Mm-hmm for a better, more synergistic piece.

notmydance 1:04:51

Yeah. I feel like a lot of times we'll look at a new card and be like,"Okay, this is, like, maybe the 13th card in what the deck's actually wanting to do." Yeah. She might be the 12th.

Alex 1:04:59

I

Punisher War Machine

notmydance 1:04:59

know. Which is, it feels like that's a weird bar to, like, phrase but, like, maybe slightly more playable than we thought.

Alex 1:05:05

Is Punisher gonna be more playable than maybe people thought? I will have to tell you something. We got some clarifications. So Regis and I were talking about this card, and there was one thing that we were stuck on,'cause we both came in four stars, we're both excited about Punisher. But we were not sure at the time of recording whether or not your opponent would know which location was marked. And my friend Dan said it has been confirmed that your opponent will know the location that's been marked. That's a good and a bad thing. Good for Guardian gamers, good for Rocket and Groot gamers, but it does make Punisher War Machine a little bit weaker. What are your general thoughts on Punisher War Machine? The 2/2 that reads When drawn, mark one of your empty locations. Objective: win that location for permanent plus one max energy. And I added the word permanent just to, for clarification. Yeah. That is plus one max energy, uh, for the rest of the game.

New Player Clarity

notmydance 1:05:58

So I, I, there are a couple other key things, which, yeah, I love the fact that they did clarify that. That was clarified behind the scene. That's actually more inside baseball stuff, but they said that was purposefully allowed to be outside of baseball, I think, for that bit. Uh, but the other interesting thing a- about Punisher War Machine is the fact that it really matters when you are actually gonna draw this, and I think that's gonna be what really makes and breaks this card. Because if I draw this card on a turn three or a turn four, depending on how many cards are already on the board, I am gonna be in a lot of trouble. If I don't have this card in my opening hand and then Central Park reveals, this is a dead card, which is another interesting idea with this. And so I'm excited for this card. I have no idea where I m- would rank this. I actually... Can I, can I... I have a gripe with this card, and I don't know if it's going to be the same for this one. But it's kind of a gripe with a lot of the, with animations in Marvel Snap. If I'm a new player and I'm entering the game, which I know already I'm making a big assumption by assuming that new people are, are downloading Marvel Snap, but let's imagine that they are. If I'm a new player and I open up Marvel Snap and I see the animation of Punisher War Machine, how am I supposed to know what it means? Because it, the, it says when it's drawn, it's marked, which means the card isn't on the board yet. So if I'm a new player and I see that animation, I see, like, a weird mark or however they're gonna mark it on the board, how am I supposed to know what to do with that before my, before, like, actually interacting with the card?'Cause once it's on the board, I can understand it, but it puts me at a massive, like, information deficit as just someone who's trying to enter the game, which feels like a very big miss, and it's kind of a similar problem that I have with cards like Red Hulk, uh, as well, who I don't know why there w- if, again, if a, as a new player,'cause I had, uh, my, what is it? My brother-in-law, he d- uh, downloaded the game recently'cause he wanted to, and he saw a bunch of those animations. He's like,"What does this mean?" And I, I looked over and I'm like,"Oh, there's just no way for you to learn this. You don't know what's going on." Yeah, I can tell you this bit. I shouldn't have to do that. The game should explain what's going on. Y- the, whenever you see a card for the first time, right, it goes, like, a,"Brand-new card," and it tells you it. It should do the same for that animation with Punisher War Machine. It doesn't currently, but that's my problem with this card, and that's the only problem I truly do have with it. I think it's a cool card.

Alex 1:08:05

That's fair, but I think that the way you rectify that is you get clapped that game, you learn what it does, and go next. This is the only solution we have, I guess.

notmydance 1:08:14

And that's fair. And that's a, that's a fair solution. I wish that it... I feel like it's... I just don't like that's the only solution. That your solution is to lose.

Alex 1:08:21

Yeah.

notmydance 1:08:22

Which- Yeah, I guess I don't know. Say what you will, but the card seems fun. You take an L today for a W tomorrow. True, unless the card's busted, which, uh, if you watch the dev interview, they actually talked about this, where they're like,"We d- if there is a card that we missed on this season, it's Punisher War Machine." Because he's gonna be such like a... We don't know how he's going to interact once everyone gets their hands on him. And so I'm really stoked for this card. I don't know how good it's going to be, but I love this card.

Alex 1:08:47

There's a bunch of like ways I was trying to think about this card. The first is, does it make something like a Quicksilver, as cope as it is, relevant? Because if that location's revealed on drawn, you draw it into your open hand, and you don't have a turn one play, and they start stacking there. Okay, what do you do, right? That can be potentially problematic, but something else I was thinking about too is like, okay, hold on. What if, what if like you don't care so much about that? What if you're thinking about, okay, what if I can bait them in there? And what if I can follow up with something like a Man-Thing? Right? What... Is, is Man-Thing is some sort of like, like location-based toxic effect kind of what you wanna go with as well?'Cause like, you know, you don't draw into the cards you need to win there, they're playing in that location. Yeah. They're playing early, uh, early cards, they're boom, Man-Thing. Kind of interesting. But the main one I was thinking about too was like cards like Rocket and Groot, and generally speaking, just the, uh-

notmydance 1:09:41

Mm-hmm

Alex 1:09:42

the Guardians as a whole. Because they are very location-based winners, and we see a lot of them being played in Sanctum Showdown. I feel like this could be like a mini version of Sanctum Showdown, where like there's a competitive edge towards like,"I gotta compete with that battlefield." Battlefield, I'm talking about like it's Riftbound. Gotta compete with that, uh, that location. Very similar to the way like someone plays a Iron Patriot. You're like,"We're going after it."

notmydance 1:10:08

Yeah. I love that stuff. I love the fact, uh, Iron Patriot and those style of cards, like Punch War Machine, that are forcing you to play to the game early on.'Cause I mean, you, you've been playing this for a bit, so have I. There was a time where no turn mattered except for like turn five and six, and that was a s- phrase that people would be saying. Like,"Okay, cool- The early ones the early turns don't matter." And now they really do with cards like Iron Patriot, Punch War Machine, Galactus: First Steps. And I think all of those are really interesting, and I think Galactus: First Steps is another interesting one,'cause I like the Rocket and Groot. I love all the Guardians shout. I love all that stuff. I love the also idea, like I mentioned with G- with Galactus: First Steps, because what if I can try to force my opponent to play for another location? What if I'm trying to pressure them in as many ways as possible? I think there's a very real chance where if I'm to have a Punisher War Machine, I don't have a great way to win that location. I maybe won't play for it for a bit, and just let them ha- like force to fight there, and maybe try to put pressure elsewhere with, uh... If you look at other cards, like what is it? You mentioned the Rock Slide stuff. You've got Terrax is another card. You can do Viv Vision things. You can do even just Nebula, which I think Nebula as a guardian enabler is probably gonna be a really fantastic one in terms of also you can play this on turn one. The green crackle actually works, by the way, with her effect there. I love it when you can do that. That's always a great, like effect in particular. Yeah, it's always nice.

Alex 1:11:19

Yeah, I like when-

notmydance 1:11:19

Yeah the

Alex 1:11:19

crackle and the borders match the name plates. Mm. I, I don't know. It's something that, I don't know. You, is this- Yeah a compliment to my variant? I didn't even have to fish for this. Are you complimenting my variant?

notmydance 1:11:28

I am. I am actively glazing you.

Alex 1:11:31

Get wrecked, Dexter. People can appreciate my variant choice. Look at that. We're doing it. We are- There we are doing it, guys. That is un... I've been fishing for compliments on my variants after Dexter roasted me- and you just did it yourself. Thank you.

notmydance 1:11:44

Yeah, of

Alex 1:11:45

course. I appreciate that. This made my mother's day.

notmydance 1:11:47

Now let me just DM you back. Yeah. Was this the response you wanted? Right, you wanted me to compliment your variant during the... I'm sorry, I was

Alex 1:11:55

out. Yes, that's exactly, that's exactly right. Perfect, got it. Thank you so much, really appreciate it. Yeah, of course.

notmydance 1:11:59

Yeah, of

Alex 1:11:59

course. What I guess we'll close on in this conversation- It's a conversation with Punisher War Machine, which is gonna be really good. I actually think he's gonna be Solg... So if you compare like what we got at the two drop, we got Psylocke as a 2/2, very similar stat line. It's plus one energy for that next turn, right?

notmydance 1:12:14

Mm-hmm.

Alex 1:12:15

I think War Machine's better. And then when you got someone like a Jennifer Kale, right? Who is not awful, but like- Mm-hmm compared to War Machine, I, I, I think War Machine's just straight up better. So like this plus one consistent power is gonna be something. And there is another card that gives consistent plus one power. Well, of course, you've got Spider-Man Noir, St- not Spider-Man Noir, Spider, Super, Super- Superior Spider-Man- Superior will do that. You also have Electro that'll give you the consistent plus one power, but a incredibly massive downside of only being able to play one card per turn. It is a 3/5 now. It used to be a 3/2. Yeah. But, like, this effect is a lot. Like, this is a very powerful effect if you can complete this objective. So to be honest with you, like, I think that this is gonna be a very good card, and I'm looking forward to playing with it this week.

notmydance 1:12:59

Yeah. I'm excited for this card. I think... I do think it's gonna be a very good card as well. I like it a lot. I think what you're mentioning there with Electro is a good shout. I feel like any card in particular that likes to have the extra energy, right? And I think another card that I think is gonna be really good with this is also Airship. As much as I'm not personally a big fan of Airship as a deck. But Airship does... I don't think Airship would hate the extra energy. But also what you're mentioning with Electro, just ramp style of decks that are putting out really big numbers. Like, if I get a Punisher, and I'm also not playing as many cards, I tr- drop down an Electro as a 3/5. I can drop, follow up with on turn four potentially playing a War, uh, an actual War Machine. And then I can have at least, I don't know, 14 power in a lane assuming Punisher's on the board there. Which he has to be in play for him to win the location, right? Like, you can't win that location before he's on the board.

Alex 1:13:47

That's a good question. When does... I imagine that he has to be played, and you have to be winning that location when he checks.

notmydance 1:13:55

That's what my guess is as well. Or,

Alex 1:13:57

I mean, I haven't had a chance to play- Because-'Cause he, he checked... Does he check? No, he doesn't check when he's in hand, but he... They'll know if you're winning the location in hand.

Ratings and Wrap Up

notmydance 1:14:04

Because, like, yeah,'cause objective cards can track that stuff. Like, if you look at Storm the Storm Horseman, right? She doesn't, she... You don't need to spend, uh, or skip two turns with her in play. I think it's still on the board though, because I, I, it feels like that just makes sense, like be winning. Maybe it should be saying w- be winning that location to get the plus one ma- max energy. But, um,'cause it's the active versus, versus, like, the just whatever condition you've already checked or whatever that is. But I do think that this card is gonna be very cool, very interesting. I, I'm going with it still on the fact that, like, y- it has to be in play for it to work. I like this card. I think it's gonna be really cool. I- Sorry but I also think it could really easily miss. I'm gonna go f- I'm gonna give it a three and a half.

Alex 1:14:47

Oh, that's

notmydance 1:14:47

lower than I

Alex 1:14:48

expected.'Cause I- For me, it's a solid four. I think it's a solid

notmydance 1:14:50

four still.

Alex 1:14:51

Yeah.

notmydance 1:14:51

It could... The, it's not solid is, I think, my logic, because this could so easily fluctuate, as I mentioned, right? It's like if maybe this is really good in one deck, and maybe it just actually has no home. I think they, when they said that they weren't even certain about where they wanted the like, where this card was going to land in terms of power level, that kind of shook me for a bit,'cause I was definitely higher on it. But then they said they didn't even know, and they were the ones who are like... You know, they mess with these cards. They make them. I, I was like,"Okay, wait maybe I shouldn't be as, as sold on this card as much." Which I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying, like, I, I give, I'm giving myself a little bit of an out in case it's not as good,'cause it could easily, I think, fluctuate.

Alex 1:15:29

Fair enough, and I will say that, like, prior, Regis and I had discussed it, and I said,"You know what? It's definitely much, much lower if your opponent knows what location's being challenged," and that came to pass. And for some reason, I'm sticking to my rating as if I, they didn't know, so maybe I'm absolutely wrong. I guess that as time has gone on, I'm like, you know what? This might be a really powerful effect. It's just a question of, like, whether or not the play pattern of having to get it down, when it checks- Mm-hmm and stuff like that, if that's gonna be potentially, uh, detrimental. So we'll have to see. Time will tell, as they always say. NotMyDance, thank you so much for joining us on this week's edition of the Snap Chat. Down below, I'm gonna link the Marvel Yap podcast, which is an absolutely fantastic one, and we're gonna get Tucker onto the pod at some point soon. I'll reach out. Maybe he's available next week, maybe not, but we're gonna have him on eventually. You've been a tremendous guest. I'm looking forward to having you on once again in the future. I hope you have a fantastic Mother's Day. Thank you to everybody who joined us today, and you know what? You can do the honors of sending us into the next episode here.

notmydance 1:16:32

Well, uh, thank you Alex, for having me on, and happy Mother's Day to every single mother, including Mother Ascani, who's a fun card in the meta as well. Legitimately, actually, she's a lot of fun. But anyway, sorry. Thank you so much. Thank you for everyone having me as well, uh, and Alex for bringing me on today. Have a good one. Have a great one. Till the next one. Peace.