{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.098,"endTime":5.343,"body":"We are now going to be talking about the actual data and the metrics that matter."},{"startTime":5.343,"endTime":11.718,"body":"I know we have throughout this talked about specific numbers and things that people care"},{"startTime":5.343,"endTime":11.718,"body":"about, but we're going to really get into it with our next guest."},{"startTime":11.718,"endTime":12.779,"body":"So Paul, over to you."},{"startTime":12.779,"endTime":14.26,"body":"Tell us about yourself."},{"startTime":14.382,"endTime":16.522,"body":"Hi everybody, my name's Paul."},{"startTime":17.202,"endTime":21.662,"body":"I am, I think described as a marketing veteran, so I've got 20 plus years in marketing."},{"startTime":21.662,"endTime":24.882,"body":"I currently work for a marketing agency called Marmalade Marketing."},{"startTime":24.882,"endTime":29.962,"body":"We're an agency that specialises in professional services and also tech."},{"startTime":30.446,"endTime":36.446,"body":"HubSpot Gold Partner, so we do lots of interesting stuff around sort of like regeneration,"},{"startTime":30.446,"endTime":36.446,"body":"marketing automation."},{"startTime":37.226,"endTime":42.906,"body":"I've spent my career working in a number of different sectors as a marketing director"},{"startTime":37.226,"endTime":42.906,"body":"before working in an agency."},{"startTime":42.906,"endTime":53.606,"body":"I've worked in retail manufacturing, professional services, and lucky enough to worked in"},{"startTime":42.906,"endTime":53.606,"body":"nearly 20 countries in marketing, so it's been a really good career for me."},{"startTime":53.626,"endTime":54.646,"body":"So yeah."},{"startTime":54.658,"endTime":57.829,"body":"perfectly leads us on to what is your marketing confession?"},{"startTime":57.829,"endTime":60.622,"body":"I'm sure you have a couple but what's your favourite?"},{"startTime":60.622,"endTime":62.242,"body":"Yeah, I've got two."},{"startTime":62.242,"endTime":64.082,"body":"So maybe people in the room are a bit young."},{"startTime":64.082,"endTime":66.582,"body":"Does everyone remember the Argos catalogue?"},{"startTime":66.582,"endTime":66.962,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"startTime":66.962,"endTime":68.622,"body":"A few people remember the Argos catalogue."},{"startTime":68.622,"endTime":70.542,"body":"to do Christmas stuff."},{"startTime":70.542,"endTime":77.882,"body":"So I used to work for Argos, Nick got cracking nearly 20 years ago, and I got some pricing"},{"startTime":70.542,"endTime":77.882,"body":"wrong in the catalogue."},{"startTime":78.702,"endTime":88.682,"body":"they used to basically put a reprint sheet at the back and the pricing I got wrong,"},{"startTime":78.702,"endTime":88.682,"body":"something should have been £79.99 and I bought it for £39.99."},{"startTime":88.75,"endTime":93.69,"body":"And for some of that period, you have to basically sell it for £39.99."},{"startTime":93.69,"endTime":96.49,"body":"So I got into a lot of trouble with the product team."},{"startTime":97.59,"endTime":100.546,"body":"It was like a bedside table."},{"startTime":100.546,"endTime":105.549,"body":"I was about ask if it was something that people circled for their Christmas list because I"},{"startTime":100.546,"endTime":105.549,"body":"used to do that."},{"startTime":105.549,"endTime":107.41,"body":"But no, not a bedside table."},{"startTime":109.892,"endTime":111.103,"body":"That's a very good confession."},{"startTime":111.103,"endTime":113.054,"body":"There's not much you can do with a print fuck up, there?"},{"startTime":113.054,"endTime":114.245,"body":"Once it's happened, it's happened."},{"startTime":114.245,"endTime":114.975,"body":"Old school."},{"startTime":114.975,"endTime":115.646,"body":"Old school."},{"startTime":115.646,"endTime":117.177,"body":"Old school fuck up."},{"startTime":117.177,"endTime":120.729,"body":"So obviously we're to get into the data conversation, into the nitty gritty."},{"startTime":120.729,"endTime":125.974,"body":"But before we start, obviously, and a lot of us have probably fallen prey to this, which"},{"startTime":120.729,"endTime":125.974,"body":"is"},{"startTime":125.974,"endTime":134.105,"body":"sharing vanity metrics with our senior leaders and maybe sometimes in the occasional board"},{"startTime":125.974,"endTime":134.105,"body":"back to make ourselves look good."},{"startTime":134.346,"endTime":140.194,"body":"So what are some of those metrics that you think are completely useless and ones that we"},{"startTime":134.346,"endTime":140.194,"body":"should maybe like banish?"},{"startTime":140.886,"endTime":145.23,"body":"I think you talked a little bit before around the tenure of marketing leaders."},{"startTime":145.23,"endTime":152.677,"body":"That's where we get into a problem if you're always talking about financial metrics,"},{"startTime":145.23,"endTime":152.677,"body":"because at some point somebody's going to say, well, that's great, but what is the"},{"startTime":152.677,"endTime":154.217,"body":"commercial impact here?"},{"startTime":154.318,"endTime":159.603,"body":"Whether it's follower numbers, website visitors, et cetera, you've got to do something to"},{"startTime":154.318,"endTime":159.603,"body":"convert people."},{"startTime":159.603,"endTime":166.329,"body":"You've got to understand what your total viable market is and total addressable market is,"},{"startTime":159.603,"endTime":166.329,"body":"not just about volume."},{"startTime":166.329,"endTime":167.389,"body":"And I think..."},{"startTime":167.746,"endTime":178.767,"body":"There's lots of talk now and now, think, about how we're switching maybe from volume, from"},{"startTime":167.746,"endTime":178.767,"body":"a quantity to a quality, and always around the conversion, which is, I suppose, why we're"},{"startTime":178.767,"endTime":180.028,"body":"all in this room today."},{"startTime":180.642,"endTime":184.102,"body":"What's one metric that you've presented that you now cringe at?"},{"startTime":185.802,"endTime":190.125,"body":"anything that finance can have a go at, right?"},{"startTime":190.125,"endTime":196.109,"body":"Do people like Roy Sutherland, when you see him on, I think he's like, Olga V, like..."},{"startTime":197.01,"endTime":197.891,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":197.891,"endTime":206.717,"body":"But he talks, I think he has some really good points around marketing around the concept"},{"startTime":197.891,"endTime":206.717,"body":"of we're all trying to be accountants."},{"startTime":206.717,"endTime":213.221,"body":"We're actually, we probably do need some flair, but we'll never get the time because"},{"startTime":206.717,"endTime":213.221,"body":"accountants have more..."},{"startTime":213.944,"endTime":217.637,"body":"more say in a business than marketing people do."},{"startTime":217.637,"endTime":225.794,"body":"I don't know how many people em have a good relationship with their accountancy team and"},{"startTime":217.637,"endTime":225.794,"body":"the people that work at accounts, but that I think should be your number one thing when"},{"startTime":225.794,"endTime":228.947,"body":"you're thinking about marketing is how do you make friends with accountants?"},{"startTime":228.947,"endTime":230.709,"body":"How do you talk about ROI?"},{"startTime":230.709,"endTime":232.11,"body":"What are customers worth?"},{"startTime":232.11,"endTime":236.774,"body":"em And for me, it's people, not personas."},{"startTime":236.774,"endTime":242.062,"body":"If you work in B2B and you're talking about personas, you've got to start again, I think,"},{"startTime":236.774,"endTime":242.062,"body":"because..."},{"startTime":242.062,"endTime":252.202,"body":"your sales team will understand who the people are in the accounts they're trying to"},{"startTime":242.062,"endTime":252.202,"body":"convert and they'll be named people, not personas, not Jane, 32, Reeds the Guardian, da da"},{"startTime":252.202,"endTime":253.702,"body":"da, all of that type of stuff."},{"startTime":253.702,"endTime":262.362,"body":"In B2B, I don't think that's relevant anymore in terms of how you basically attack from an"},{"startTime":253.702,"endTime":262.362,"body":"account marketing-based point of view."},{"startTime":262.434,"endTime":265.428,"body":"are we admitting that we've used personas a bit too much?"},{"startTime":265.794,"endTime":272.458,"body":"I think personas are a good roadmap in terms of a North Star, they're not a..."},{"startTime":272.458,"endTime":279.882,"body":"Why use a persona if most of your business will understand what accounts they want to"},{"startTime":272.458,"endTime":279.882,"body":"convert in a particular..."},{"startTime":279.99,"endTime":285.973,"body":"quarter or a particular year, they'll know what those named people are who they are."},{"startTime":286.113,"endTime":292.106,"body":"Everybody in this room is going to at some point appear on a Lidu CRM system as a named"},{"startTime":286.113,"endTime":292.106,"body":"person."},{"startTime":292.106,"endTime":293.376,"body":"They might have."},{"startTime":293.376,"endTime":300.84,"body":"Yeah, where basically you're a lead for Lidu, right, which is great, but you're not a"},{"startTime":293.376,"endTime":300.84,"body":"number."},{"startTime":300.84,"endTime":304.452,"body":"This isn't going to be 60, 70 people turned into a room."},{"startTime":304.452,"endTime":309.764,"body":"It's, I have this conversation, I had this conversation, which I think is your point of"},{"startTime":304.452,"endTime":309.764,"body":"mail a bit earlier around how"},{"startTime":309.764,"endTime":312.423,"body":"to get people into a room and to network with you."},{"startTime":312.876,"endTime":313.807,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":313.807,"endTime":319.452,"body":"So nice job on avoiding my question, by the way."},{"startTime":319.452,"endTime":329.722,"body":"So if we're going to flip it to the positive side, if you don't want to talk about numbers"},{"startTime":319.452,"endTime":329.722,"body":"that you cringe at, um if you could only track three numbers to judge whether your website"},{"startTime":329.722,"endTime":333.105,"body":"and marketing is doing its job, what would those be?"},{"startTime":334.178,"endTime":335.269,"body":"Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point."},{"startTime":335.269,"endTime":339.37,"body":"think somebody mentioned the number, didn't they, around how many websites they get and"},{"startTime":335.269,"endTime":339.37,"body":"the actual conversion."},{"startTime":339.37,"endTime":346.724,"body":"I think the conversion is the real piece, but also understanding that people aren't coming"},{"startTime":339.37,"endTime":346.724,"body":"to your website to convert all of the time."},{"startTime":346.724,"endTime":351.486,"body":"They're coming to your website to research and to understand where people are in the"},{"startTime":346.724,"endTime":351.486,"body":"funnel."},{"startTime":351.486,"endTime":357.138,"body":"We talk a lot about funnels and how the funnel is broken and what does funnel actually"},{"startTime":351.486,"endTime":357.138,"body":"mean, top of the funnel, bottom of the all of that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":357.138,"endTime":361.871,"body":"But actually understanding where people are in the funnel, I think is an interesting one."},{"startTime":361.871,"endTime":364.252,"body":"And also sort of reporting"},{"startTime":364.252,"endTime":374.098,"body":"on that because those top-level numbers the business should understand that that is top of"},{"startTime":364.252,"endTime":374.098,"body":"the funnel that is just people who are searching those searches out there rather than the"},{"startTime":374.098,"endTime":386.066,"body":"people that are going to convert and then having tools on your website to convert people"},{"startTime":374.098,"endTime":386.066,"body":"once they're further in the funnel is so the metrics would be top of the funnel and middle"},{"startTime":386.066,"endTime":391.57,"body":"of the funnel so you understand what those are and how you can help sales convert those."},{"startTime":391.97,"endTime":394.372,"body":"And how do you go about communicating some of that to people?"},{"startTime":394.372,"endTime":402.527,"body":"Because I think that's one of the problems that we, and again, it's a trap that we kind of"},{"startTime":394.372,"endTime":402.527,"body":"all fall into, which is, you know, for us in the marketing team, we need to look at the"},{"startTime":402.527,"endTime":413.045,"body":"full scope of those metrics, including some of the horrible vanity ones to sort of show"},{"startTime":402.527,"endTime":413.045,"body":"people, for us to understand the journey that people take before they convert."},{"startTime":413.045,"endTime":419.369,"body":"But how do we kind of explain that to people who maybe don't understand what we're talking"},{"startTime":413.045,"endTime":419.369,"body":"about?"},{"startTime":419.369,"endTime":421.12,"body":"Or maybe they look at the funnel and they're like,"},{"startTime":421.12,"endTime":423.0,"body":"What is this mofu thing?"},{"startTime":423.896,"endTime":428.671,"body":"Yes, I'm pretty sure that nobody in this room enters the marketing to talk about funnels,"},{"startTime":423.896,"endTime":428.671,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":428.671,"endTime":432.263,"body":"We all want to do like parties and PR and..."},{"startTime":433.851,"endTime":436.898,"body":"Richard was like, no, I don't want to do parties."},{"startTime":436.898,"endTime":437.662,"body":"But."},{"startTime":437.91,"endTime":440.371,"body":"Marketing is a cool thing, isn't it?"},{"startTime":440.371,"endTime":444.653,"body":"We came into marketing because it's a cool profession and you can have real impact on"},{"startTime":440.371,"endTime":444.653,"body":"businesses."},{"startTime":444.653,"endTime":454.588,"body":"uh I think I'll go back to the point that I made of look at actual customer journeys, look"},{"startTime":444.653,"endTime":454.588,"body":"at people who have converted and start speaking about those individual journeys in the"},{"startTime":454.588,"endTime":460.521,"body":"business rather than talking about we've had 10,000 people here and 3,000 people here, et"},{"startTime":454.588,"endTime":460.521,"body":"cetera, et cetera."},{"startTime":460.521,"endTime":465.623,"body":"Just work through what an actual customer journey looks like and the touch points that"},{"startTime":460.521,"endTime":465.623,"body":"you've enabled."},{"startTime":465.663,"endTime":467.664,"body":"Dan Priestley talks about 11 touch points."},{"startTime":467.664,"endTime":477.784,"body":"So thinking about how many touch points have you had and reporting on that I think is a"},{"startTime":467.664,"endTime":477.784,"body":"good metrics for us to understand, say well actually yeah, this person's had six pieces of"},{"startTime":477.784,"endTime":485.044,"body":"content or they've been to two events, whatever it is, understanding that the journey now"},{"startTime":477.784,"endTime":485.044,"body":"is longer and more complex."},{"startTime":485.25,"endTime":494.19,"body":"And then how do you go from that to then kind of being practical and being like, okay,"},{"startTime":485.25,"endTime":494.19,"body":"these people haven't had these touch points, so therefore we need to do X, Y, Z."},{"startTime":494.466,"endTime":496.678,"body":"Yeah, that also goes back to the conversion point, right?"},{"startTime":496.678,"endTime":504.037,"body":"And then also the conversation I think you guys had earlier around the sales and marketing"},{"startTime":496.678,"endTime":504.037,"body":"integration, making sure that you are talking to sales teams around."},{"startTime":504.037,"endTime":509.606,"body":"So the average MQL to SQL conversion rate is somewhere between 5 and 10%, right?"},{"startTime":509.606,"endTime":512.746,"body":"Which is, m and you know."},{"startTime":513.198,"endTime":514.82,"body":"I've had a joke about salespeople this morning."},{"startTime":514.82,"endTime":518.493,"body":"But ultimately, salespeople don't really care about the leads that you're trying to"},{"startTime":514.82,"endTime":518.493,"body":"generate."},{"startTime":518.493,"endTime":526.15,"body":"What they care about is the leads in the accounts that they want to close for the number"},{"startTime":518.493,"endTime":526.15,"body":"that they want to hit so they can get a bonus."},{"startTime":526.15,"endTime":528.302,"body":"That's essentially how salespeople operate."},{"startTime":528.302,"endTime":531.545,"body":"the closer we get to that, better."},{"startTime":531.545,"endTime":534.937,"body":"We've got Rolexes and couches to pay for."},{"startTime":535.215,"endTime":536.234,"body":"Couches."},{"startTime":536.234,"endTime":537.454,"body":"3 Series."},{"startTime":538.954,"endTime":546.062,"body":"ultimately is understanding what those accounts look like and what penetration and"},{"startTime":538.954,"endTime":546.062,"body":"activity you've had in those actual accounts."},{"startTime":546.062,"endTime":552.55,"body":"So would you say that, so we're kind of mildly touching account based marketing, mildly,"},{"startTime":546.062,"endTime":552.55,"body":"because we're talking about accounts."},{"startTime":552.55,"endTime":559.217,"body":"Would you say that is your preferred view to the world rather than just a straight funnel?"},{"startTime":573.726,"endTime":581.202,"body":"Yeah, I think you can say there's a graphic that I think Greg and the guys share where"},{"startTime":573.726,"endTime":581.202,"body":"there isn't a funnel anymore."},{"startTime":581.202,"endTime":589.058,"body":"There's like 30 or 40 different things where you're following and em is the funnel broken?"},{"startTime":589.496,"endTime":591.7959999999999,"body":"We've gone through different things in marketing, haven't we?"},{"startTime":591.7959999999999,"endTime":598.3159999999999,"body":"So when I first started it was, okay, we'll spend a lot of money and I worked for a"},{"startTime":591.7959999999999,"endTime":598.3159999999999,"body":"business and we spent nearly 30 million pound on marketing, right?"},{"startTime":598.3159999999999,"endTime":604.896,"body":"So TV, ads, radio, all the old school stuff right before digital stuff, 30 million quid."},{"startTime":604.896,"endTime":609.4,"body":"And my first job was to basically go into a shop and ask people with a clipboard."},{"startTime":609.4,"endTime":611.42,"body":"to work out whether or not they seem to have it or not."},{"startTime":611.42,"endTime":620.5999999999999,"body":"So we've come a long way from there and ultimately is understanding what do those KPI"},{"startTime":611.42,"endTime":620.5999999999999,"body":"mechanisms look like, but is there a funnel anymore?"},{"startTime":620.5999999999999,"endTime":622.0,"body":"And I think that's a question."},{"startTime":622.0,"endTime":623.8199999999999,"body":"don't think it's really answered yet."},{"startTime":624.0799999999999,"endTime":625.36,"body":"Can I just?"},{"startTime":625.36,"endTime":626.1999999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":626.8159999999999,"endTime":635.067,"body":"So we had a speaker at one of the previous conversion meetups and he bought Lidu for his"},{"startTime":626.8159999999999,"endTime":635.067,"body":"business."},{"startTime":635.067,"endTime":636.208,"body":"He ultimately bought Lidu."},{"startTime":636.208,"endTime":641.775,"body":"And we, as a joke, were looking through how he had bought Lidu."},{"startTime":642.284,"endTime":644.685,"body":"things that he do tracks his lifetime visits."},{"startTime":644.745,"endTime":648.487,"body":"So it shows how many times people have been on your website and what they're engaged with."},{"startTime":648.588,"endTime":653.93,"body":"And he, uh I met him at an event two years before he became a customer."},{"startTime":653.9509999999999,"endTime":658.473,"body":"Great conversation, classic event lead, know, really interested, wanted to see the"},{"startTime":653.9509999999999,"endTime":658.473,"body":"platform."},{"startTime":658.473,"endTime":661.625,"body":"And then we looked at what happened in the two years after that."},{"startTime":661.625,"endTime":662.449,"body":"And he went"},{"startTime":662.449,"endTime":663.9739999999999,"body":"on the video website."},{"startTime":664.012,"endTime":666.6129999999999,"body":"three different times in two years."},{"startTime":666.693,"endTime":668.813,"body":"So how do you put that in a funnel?"},{"startTime":668.973,"endTime":670.814,"body":"And that's the point, right?"},{"startTime":670.814,"endTime":682.697,"body":"These are particularly in a B2B or in a considered purchase space, your sales cycle may"},{"startTime":670.814,"endTime":682.697,"body":"well be two years and it may well be different touch points."},{"startTime":682.8779999999999,"endTime":690.6519999999999,"body":"And I suppose if you're not able to track that for something like you, it's a hell of a"},{"startTime":682.8779999999999,"endTime":690.6519999999999,"body":"lot harder to explain to a sales person, don't worry, this will come in two years."},{"startTime":690.687,"endTime":691.596,"body":"It's coming."},{"startTime":691.596,"endTime":697.351,"body":"It's also the reason why like the average tenure for a a marketing director or CMO is like"},{"startTime":691.596,"endTime":697.351,"body":"18 months, right?"},{"startTime":697.351,"endTime":704.908,"body":"Yeah, because they were immediately under pressure to say right help us generate more"},{"startTime":697.351,"endTime":704.908,"body":"leads But in most businesses most b2b businesses, it's a it's a more"},{"startTime":704.9599999999999,"endTime":706.6619999999999,"body":"complex sales process now."},{"startTime":706.6619999999999,"endTime":709.852,"body":"It's more complex sales process, more people involved in the process."},{"startTime":709.852,"endTime":713.429,"body":"It's only going to get more complex as the economy tightens."},{"startTime":713.429,"endTime":722.2379999999999,"body":"And as the economy tightens, means that more finance people are getting involved in the"},{"startTime":713.429,"endTime":722.2379999999999,"body":"decisions about every product, which means that you have different types of buyers."},{"startTime":722.2379999999999,"endTime":726.002,"body":"em And if people were like the Miller Hyman."},{"startTime":726.002,"endTime":727.572,"body":"em"},{"startTime":727.572,"endTime":730.4169999999999,"body":"mechanism around the different types of people in the buying group."},{"startTime":730.4169999999999,"endTime":732.8109999999999,"body":"That's a really good book and I suggest that people read it."},{"startTime":732.8109999999999,"endTime":739.031,"body":"It's really good for sales and marketing around accounts and how you'd be to be marketing"},{"startTime":732.8109999999999,"endTime":739.031,"body":"and sales."},{"startTime":739.384,"endTime":747.524,"body":"Yeah, think that one of the challenges we've got here is that a lot of people are drawn to"},{"startTime":739.384,"endTime":747.524,"body":"the funnel and the conversation around the funnel because it is an easy model to explain"},{"startTime":747.524,"endTime":747.904,"body":"things."},{"startTime":747.904,"endTime":752.8639999999999,"body":"So like when you are dealing with people who are outside, like I think we all know how"},{"startTime":747.904,"endTime":752.8639999999999,"body":"complicated it is."},{"startTime":752.8639999999999,"endTime":755.1239999999999,"body":"I don't think the room needs convincing."},{"startTime":755.1239999999999,"endTime":756.804,"body":"I think we're like, yeah, it's really hard."},{"startTime":756.804,"endTime":758.424,"body":"And there are so many touch points."},{"startTime":758.424,"endTime":759.8439999999999,"body":"Attribution is messy."},{"startTime":759.8439999999999,"endTime":761.444,"body":"The classic funnel situation."},{"startTime":761.444,"endTime":763.444,"body":"I'm not sure I think it ever existed."},{"startTime":763.444,"endTime":764.824,"body":"I'm going to be real."},{"startTime":765.204,"endTime":767.562,"body":"But I..."},{"startTime":767.562,"endTime":769.213,"body":"I understand why we lean to it."},{"startTime":769.213,"endTime":777.0759999999999,"body":"So what other mechanisms, what other ways could we like maybe guide our organisation away"},{"startTime":769.213,"endTime":777.0759999999999,"body":"from talking about the funnel?"},{"startTime":777.0759999999999,"endTime":786.8109999999999,"body":"Because I do think then we get into this conversation around, if you drop a thousand in"},{"startTime":777.0759999999999,"endTime":786.8109999999999,"body":"the top, then it shakes out at like 10 at the bottom, which is not great for us because"},{"startTime":786.8109999999999,"endTime":790.002,"body":"that's not focusing necessarily on quality."},{"startTime":790.002,"endTime":793.834,"body":"And that's really kind of where we want to get to, right?"},{"startTime":794.0799999999999,"endTime":794.712,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":794.712,"endTime":801.992,"body":"I joined a business five or six years ago where the marketing team were basically"},{"startTime":794.712,"endTime":801.992,"body":"incentivized on just generating leads."},{"startTime":801.992,"endTime":809.252,"body":"So they generate between three, 400 leads a month and they get a small bonus or a couple"},{"startTime":801.992,"endTime":809.252,"body":"hundred quid bonus."},{"startTime":809.332,"endTime":813.972,"body":"And then when I sat down with the sales team and said, well, how many accounts are you"},{"startTime":809.332,"endTime":813.972,"body":"trying to convert this year?"},{"startTime":813.972,"endTime":815.092,"body":"It's like 20."},{"startTime":815.352,"endTime":818.612,"body":"Why are we trying to generate nearly 3,500 leads?"},{"startTime":818.612,"endTime":820.8919999999999,"body":"Do you like to the number doesn't equate, does it?"},{"startTime":820.8919999999999,"endTime":824.6659999999999,"body":"I think that just goes back to a good conversation between sales and marketing to"},{"startTime":824.6659999999999,"endTime":829.992,"body":"understand what the process is, what the addressable market is, and where does that start?"},{"startTime":830.433,"endTime":833.055,"body":"And I think it goes back to the point I made before, is that..."},{"startTime":833.11,"endTime":840.8259999999999,"body":"I think now marketing people, getting into more of a conversation about the quality rather"},{"startTime":833.11,"endTime":840.8259999999999,"body":"than the quantity around that conversion piece."},{"startTime":840.867,"endTime":850.536,"body":"But then it is also about the nurture piece and products like Lead do make it easier for"},{"startTime":840.867,"endTime":850.536,"body":"you to follow people through the process."},{"startTime":850.536,"endTime":855.1999999999999,"body":"Whereas before the attribution model, four or five years ago, was really, really difficult"},{"startTime":850.536,"endTime":855.1999999999999,"body":"for B2B."},{"startTime":855.1999999999999,"endTime":859.043,"body":"And 10 years ago, we were literally, events, brochures."},{"startTime":860.1719999999999,"endTime":867.3399999999999,"body":"That's what marketing did, but now we can get more involved in the commercial process of"},{"startTime":860.1719999999999,"endTime":867.3399999999999,"body":"trying to convert customers."},{"startTime":867.3399999999999,"endTime":871.164,"body":"I think to like also add like a practical thing that we all can do."},{"startTime":871.164,"endTime":879.7909999999999,"body":"Most of us can set up some sort of lead scoring and starting to look at first of all, how"},{"startTime":871.164,"endTime":879.7909999999999,"body":"good are the leads when they come in, but then having lead scoring that reflects their"},{"startTime":879.7909999999999,"endTime":881.693,"body":"life cycle with you."},{"startTime":881.693,"endTime":888.0989999999999,"body":"then month to month tracking, okay, we've had 10 leads at like 10 points, 20 leads at 20"},{"startTime":881.693,"endTime":888.0989999999999,"body":"points."},{"startTime":888.0989999999999,"endTime":892.543,"body":"And actually those 20 leads went on to have 60 points next month because we're doing X, Y,"},{"startTime":888.0989999999999,"endTime":892.543,"body":"Z."},{"startTime":892.543,"endTime":893.8629999999999,"body":"I think that's a..."},{"startTime":894.144,"endTime":901.3149999999999,"body":"It's an easy way to dump the funnel and kind of just not show it, but also then track how"},{"startTime":894.144,"endTime":901.3149999999999,"body":"your leads are moving through, especially if you know you need lots of touch points."},{"startTime":901.3149999999999,"endTime":904.502,"body":"You want those points to be growing and to kind of be pushing people on."},{"startTime":904.502,"endTime":904.9319999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":904.9319999999999,"endTime":913.237,"body":"mean, there's a, don't know if anyone read the dream data report that said that now the"},{"startTime":904.9319999999999,"endTime":913.237,"body":"marketing funnel is 272 days long."},{"startTime":913.237,"endTime":916.558,"body":"So like from a velocity point of view, that's a hell of a lot of touch points."},{"startTime":917.419,"endTime":917.5889999999999,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":917.5889999999999,"endTime":918.8299999999999,"body":"That's before sales."},{"startTime":918.8299999999999,"endTime":919.891,"body":"That's just marketing."},{"startTime":919.891,"endTime":921.131,"body":"That's just marketing nurture."},{"startTime":921.131,"endTime":921.382,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":921.382,"endTime":930.0659999999999,"body":"So I think, yeah, the lead scoring thing is a really good, but, but again, even with that,"},{"startTime":921.382,"endTime":930.0659999999999,"body":"it's about making sure that that stays flexible because you're going to add more and more"},{"startTime":930.0659999999999,"endTime":932.328,"body":"and more stuff to that constantly."},{"startTime":932.328,"endTime":933.002,"body":"So it's like,"},{"startTime":933.002,"endTime":935.36,"body":"constantly going back and revisiting."},{"startTime":935.746,"endTime":938.1129999999999,"body":"yeah, don't just set it up and forget about it."},{"startTime":938.264,"endTime":940.204,"body":"And it's a great opportunity for marketing people, right?"},{"startTime":940.204,"endTime":942.7439999999999,"body":"Because the marketing owns more of the funnel."},{"startTime":943.704,"endTime":945.404,"body":"there are more touch points."},{"startTime":945.584,"endTime":957.924,"body":"as it sounds constitutive, but as sales processes become more complex, marketing can help"},{"startTime":945.584,"endTime":957.924,"body":"more with that because, no offence to salespeople in the room, but they can become a"},{"startTime":957.924,"endTime":962.084,"body":"little bit focused on what's today or tomorrow."},{"startTime":962.084,"endTime":967.2239999999999,"body":"Whereas marketing can help with that cycle as it becomes more complex and longer, like you"},{"startTime":962.084,"endTime":967.2239999999999,"body":"said."},{"startTime":967.3299999999999,"endTime":974.026,"body":"So what about teams that do seem to have all the data but seem to be still just making gut"},{"startTime":967.3299999999999,"endTime":974.026,"body":"decisions?"},{"startTime":974.026,"endTime":977.0809999999999,"body":"Where are you seeing that occurs in your work?"},{"startTime":978.208,"endTime":981.164,"body":"what from where they've got the data around the..."},{"startTime":981.602,"endTime":990.2249999999999,"body":"guess what do those, so what do those team, if there is a team, sorry, if there is a team"},{"startTime":981.602,"endTime":990.2249999999999,"body":"that has all the data but seems to be ignoring it and just making gut decisions, what kind"},{"startTime":990.2249999999999,"endTime":996.915,"body":"of a setup are they in and why are they kind of making those gut decisions instead of"},{"startTime":990.2249999999999,"endTime":996.915,"body":"looking at the data?"},{"startTime":997.884,"endTime":1000.597,"body":"Yeah, it's that eight-old question, isn't it?"},{"startTime":1000.597,"endTime":1002.649,"body":"Is marketing an art or a science?"},{"startTime":1002.649,"endTime":1010.7379999999999,"body":"And I think it's where you probably sit on the tipping point of art and science."},{"startTime":1010.7379999999999,"endTime":1011.3979999999999,"body":"I think that..."},{"startTime":1011.3979999999999,"endTime":1013.25,"body":"em"},{"startTime":1013.25,"endTime":1022.2959999999999,"body":"Tools like ChatGPT I talked about earlier around how they can help produce more content as"},{"startTime":1013.25,"endTime":1022.2959999999999,"body":"marketing people if we're shying away from the data or we're not particularly comfortable"},{"startTime":1022.2959999999999,"endTime":1029.551,"body":"with numbers, you mentioned earlier as well, is use AI to help you with those numbers."},{"startTime":1029.551,"endTime":1031.972,"body":"Use AI to go through data."},{"startTime":1031.972,"endTime":1035.634,"body":"Use AI to, I think some of the more interesting things around..."},{"startTime":1035.634,"endTime":1036.958,"body":"m"},{"startTime":1036.958,"endTime":1043.132,"body":"looking at sales call transcripts as an example is one thing that's big at the moment in"},{"startTime":1036.958,"endTime":1043.132,"body":"B2B."},{"startTime":1043.132,"endTime":1048.236,"body":"How sales people are dealing with objections, what those objections are."},{"startTime":1048.236,"endTime":1060.343,"body":"So we've had one tip, one tip only for B2B people is get the transcripts of the sales"},{"startTime":1048.236,"endTime":1060.343,"body":"calls, put them through some kind of AI and allow that to enable the data process."},{"startTime":1060.434,"endTime":1063.5620000000001,"body":"Are you saying it's the analysis bit that maybe is falling down?"},{"startTime":1063.5620000000001,"endTime":1067.576,"body":"they've got the data, analysis is hard, so they're making up decisions?"},{"startTime":1067.576,"endTime":1068.0320000000002,"body":"Good"},{"startTime":1068.0320000000002,"endTime":1069.403,"body":"It's probably what system you use, right?"},{"startTime":1069.403,"endTime":1076.036,"body":"So some people, know, I think we're really lucky that CRM systems and systems like Lidio"},{"startTime":1069.403,"endTime":1076.036,"body":"are relatively cheap."},{"startTime":1076.036,"endTime":1078.617,"body":"Like 10 years ago, 15 years ago, they weren't."},{"startTime":1078.617,"endTime":1079.347,"body":"So it's a lot."},{"startTime":1079.347,"endTime":1086.2,"body":"So you only had the big enterprise organizations that were doing enterprise sales and"},{"startTime":1079.347,"endTime":1086.2,"body":"marketing integration sales."},{"startTime":1086.641,"endTime":1097.566,"body":"Whereas now it's, it's a lot easy for those with a lot of us in environments where you've"},{"startTime":1086.641,"endTime":1097.566,"body":"got small budgets to, to, get tools that enable you to get the data."},{"startTime":1098.4270000000001,"endTime":1101.29,"body":"what should you do with that data?"},{"startTime":1101.371,"endTime":1104.77,"body":"That's where I think AI can really help marketing people."},{"startTime":1104.77,"endTime":1112.5230000000001,"body":"think the thing that I see to add to your point, Paul, is that a lot of the teams that I"},{"startTime":1104.77,"endTime":1112.5230000000001,"body":"work with, there's a bit of a so what missing."},{"startTime":1112.5230000000001,"endTime":1116.414,"body":"So people have got a lot of data, like you've alluded to, Ruta, they're drowning in it."},{"startTime":1116.414,"endTime":1120.365,"body":"We're like, I can get data from absolutely fucking everywhere and everything."},{"startTime":1120.365,"endTime":1122.626,"body":"But what the hell does any of it mean?"},{"startTime":1122.626,"endTime":1128.844,"body":"If it's not a straight line attributed uh deal."},{"startTime":1128.844,"endTime":1132.354,"body":"that's pipeline or then close revenue, like people really struggle with it."},{"startTime":1132.354,"endTime":1133.6470000000002,"body":"It's like, so what does that mean?"},{"startTime":1133.6470000000002,"endTime":1137.46,"body":"And I think you hit on something, Paul, which is the journey that people take."},{"startTime":1137.46,"endTime":1145.295,"body":"it's like taking the metrics you've got and then does that marry up with the journey that"},{"startTime":1137.46,"endTime":1145.295,"body":"you expect people to take?"},{"startTime":1145.295,"endTime":1152.159,"body":"So like a classic example of this is going to be, okay, so they clicked on your LinkedIn"},{"startTime":1145.295,"endTime":1152.159,"body":"post, then they went to your website."},{"startTime":1152.24,"endTime":1153.601,"body":"Then what happened?"},{"startTime":1153.601,"endTime":1154.722,"body":"Did they convert?"},{"startTime":1154.722,"endTime":1156.663,"body":"Did they sign up to your newsletter?"},{"startTime":1156.663,"endTime":1158.5720000000001,"body":"Did they go into a nurture flow?"},{"startTime":1158.5720000000001,"endTime":1160.313,"body":"Did they, what happened next?"},{"startTime":1160.313,"endTime":1163.615,"body":"And it's like, you use the data to tell that story."},{"startTime":1163.615,"endTime":1166.1460000000002,"body":"And that is the thing that tells you whether it's working."},{"startTime":1166.1460000000002,"endTime":1169.558,"body":"And those are the data points, especially for a marketing team."},{"startTime":1169.558,"endTime":1171.278,"body":"They're the things we need to look at."},{"startTime":1171.278,"endTime":1176.741,"body":"They're not necessarily the things as we've talked about with Jade, that you would"},{"startTime":1171.278,"endTime":1176.741,"body":"necessarily report back up to the top, but that's the point."},{"startTime":1176.741,"endTime":1181.103,"body":"You have to get the data and then ask yourself, what happened next?"},{"startTime":1181.103,"endTime":1183.044,"body":"Also, what does this mean?"},{"startTime":1183.1290000000001,"endTime":1192.4160000000002,"body":"Because you can do things like look at, we increased our follower count on LinkedIn, but"},{"startTime":1183.1290000000001,"endTime":1192.4160000000002,"body":"that doesn't necessarily mean anything if it didn't translate into something else, which"},{"startTime":1192.4160000000002,"endTime":1193.508,"body":"is the next step."},{"startTime":1193.508,"endTime":1195.711,"body":"Did they go to the website, for example?"},{"startTime":1195.7240000000002,"endTime":1198.586,"body":"just to round us off, because we need to be good on time."},{"startTime":1199.3480000000002,"endTime":1204.5130000000001,"body":"Quick fire, what is the minimum data we should all have in place as marketers?"},{"startTime":1204.5130000000001,"endTime":1207.355,"body":"So we can go platforms or types."},{"startTime":1207.9170000000001,"endTime":1208.3780000000002,"body":"I think..."},{"startTime":1208.3780000000002,"endTime":1210.064,"body":"um"},{"startTime":1210.316,"endTime":1213.357,"body":"What is your total addressable market, viable market, right?"},{"startTime":1213.357,"endTime":1214.958,"body":"What is that number?"},{"startTime":1215.4180000000001,"endTime":1222.902,"body":"The concept of like a thousand true fans, I think is one that we should always think about"},{"startTime":1215.4180000000001,"endTime":1222.902,"body":"in marketing, which is it's not 10,000, it's not 20,000."},{"startTime":1222.902,"endTime":1229.885,"body":"If it was 20,000, if your total addressable market was 20,000, your owners of your"},{"startTime":1222.902,"endTime":1229.885,"body":"businesses will be millionaires and you'd be millionaires, right?"},{"startTime":1229.885,"endTime":1235.088,"body":"So your total addressable market is probably closer between 500 and another thousand."},{"startTime":1235.088,"endTime":1240.25,"body":"So that is a key thing to start with, to say, well, how do I then allocate my marketing to"},{"startTime":1235.088,"endTime":1240.25,"body":"Ben?"},{"startTime":1240.25,"endTime":1249.21,"body":"activity process to those 500 to a thousand people not thinking about the 25,000, 30,000"},{"startTime":1240.25,"endTime":1249.21,"body":"etc."},{"startTime":1249.366,"endTime":1251.566,"body":"Emma, what would your minimum be?"},{"startTime":1251.6000000000001,"endTime":1255.2230000000002,"body":"My minimum is I do think total adjustable markets really good."},{"startTime":1255.2230000000002,"endTime":1263.691,"body":"think the minimum that I would, I know we talked about the three with Jade, know, revenue"},{"startTime":1255.2230000000002,"endTime":1263.691,"body":"pipeline conversions, velocity is a big one for me."},{"startTime":1263.691,"endTime":1271.3970000000002,"body":"I think I would encourage more marketing people to look at velocity because it is really,"},{"startTime":1263.691,"endTime":1271.3970000000002,"body":"really long."},{"startTime":1271.3970000000002,"endTime":1273.959,"body":"And I think we need to figure out how to communicate that."},{"startTime":1274.4660000000001,"endTime":1278.5800000000002,"body":"go really uh the opposite direction of just platforms."},{"startTime":1278.5800000000002,"endTime":1287.207,"body":"Google Analytics and something that tracks website interaction, so like a hot jar or"},{"startTime":1278.5800000000002,"endTime":1287.207,"body":"something like that, because without those, uh you basically can't make any adjustments to"},{"startTime":1287.207,"endTime":1290.23,"body":"the website and know that anything happened."},{"startTime":1290.23,"endTime":1292.711,"body":"So I would feel quite powerless."},{"startTime":1292.92,"endTime":1293.8220000000001,"body":"Excellent, thank you so much."},{"startTime":1293.8220000000001,"endTime":1295.124,"body":"Well, thank you, Paul."},{"startTime":1295.366,"endTime":1298.673,"body":"We've got time for some questions for a few minutes."},{"startTime":1299.1380000000001,"endTime":1300.04,"body":"Questions?"},{"startTime":1300.04,"endTime":1300.9830000000002,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1306.242,"endTime":1309.797,"body":"So, sort of going back to this sort of question."},{"startTime":1310.218,"endTime":1314.025,"body":"How should we be thinking about websites, this post funnel?"},{"startTime":1314.527,"endTime":1317.672,"body":"We're here talking about convergence and engagement."},{"startTime":1319.9,"endTime":1324.284,"body":"The role of the website, what are the updates that we should be prioritizing?"},{"startTime":1324.284,"endTime":1328.247,"body":"How do we build a website for this host?"},{"startTime":1328.247,"endTime":1329.6480000000001,"body":"oh"},{"startTime":1331.641,"endTime":1336.9460000000001,"body":"My first reaction to that is like, what is the key metric that your business cares about?"},{"startTime":1336.9460000000001,"endTime":1342.972,"body":"So if like you were in SaaS, most of us, we give a shit about demos getting booked and"},{"startTime":1336.9460000000001,"endTime":1342.972,"body":"demos getting sat."},{"startTime":1342.972,"endTime":1348.367,"body":"So if the website is not doing those two things, then you kind of work back from there."},{"startTime":1348.367,"endTime":1350.1380000000001,"body":"So that for me, it's always the big thing."},{"startTime":1350.1380000000001,"endTime":1351.479,"body":"And then how do you work back?"},{"startTime":1351.479,"endTime":1354.902,"body":"em And that might be looking at things like CRO, SEO."},{"startTime":1354.902,"endTime":1356.886,"body":"oh"},{"startTime":1356.886,"endTime":1361.4540000000002,"body":"buyer experience, like if hit your website and they don't get what you buy as we've"},{"startTime":1356.886,"endTime":1361.4540000000002,"body":"already talked about today."},{"startTime":1361.4540000000002,"endTime":1365.101,"body":"Yeah, cleaning that stuff up, I think is important."},{"startTime":1365.101,"endTime":1367.7340000000002,"body":"I don't know if you guys have extras."},{"startTime":1367.768,"endTime":1370.588,"body":"Yeah, go back to the funnel."},{"startTime":1370.828,"endTime":1374.828,"body":"The funnel isn't a linear process, but there are still stages in the buying cycle, aren't"},{"startTime":1370.828,"endTime":1374.828,"body":"there?"},{"startTime":1374.828,"endTime":1380.308,"body":"And maybe it's a bit more of a cycle rather than a straight down funnel, or six or seven"},{"startTime":1374.828,"endTime":1380.308,"body":"different funnels."},{"startTime":1380.308,"endTime":1382.0900000000001,"body":"But understanding..."},{"startTime":1382.0900000000001,"endTime":1387.0420000000001,"body":"What part of effort and your resource and your time is around that educational content?"},{"startTime":1387.0420000000001,"endTime":1389.573,"body":"So how do you educate people about the problem?"},{"startTime":1389.573,"endTime":1392.824,"body":"think we talked a bit earlier about features and benefits."},{"startTime":1392.824,"endTime":1401.078,"body":"How do you basically talk about the benefits more when people might not understand,"},{"startTime":1392.824,"endTime":1401.078,"body":"especially in today's ever-changing world, they might not understand what your features"},{"startTime":1401.078,"endTime":1403.009,"body":"and benefits are because they don't understand the problem."},{"startTime":1403.009,"endTime":1410.96,"body":"So that educational content of people that aren't in a funnel or the cycle yet, I think is"},{"startTime":1403.009,"endTime":1410.96,"body":"an interesting one for how much resource you spend on that."},{"startTime":1411.564,"endTime":1423.6480000000001,"body":"One thing uh I would add, so that example I used earlier where the guy was on the website"},{"startTime":1411.564,"endTime":1423.6480000000001,"body":"33 times over two years, So you're right, that can't fit into a funnel."},{"startTime":1423.6480000000001,"endTime":1428.0230000000001,"body":"There's no way I can say what stage of the funnel is at to those touch points."},{"startTime":1428.652,"endTime":1429.9,"body":"What are the things we eat?"},{"startTime":1429.9,"endTime":1436.54,"body":"talk about a lot with our customers is you probably aren't going to make a sale from any"},{"startTime":1429.9,"endTime":1436.54,"body":"one of those touch points."},{"startTime":1436.54,"endTime":1441.96,"body":"Like he's not going to come to the website and the website is going to be the thing to be"},{"startTime":1436.54,"endTime":1441.96,"body":"like, I am going to buy this right now."},{"startTime":1441.98,"endTime":1446.68,"body":"But any one of those 33 touch points could have been the thing that stopped him buying."},{"startTime":1446.68,"endTime":1456.76,"body":"If he had a bad experience, he had an irrelevant experience, if the website didn't answer"},{"startTime":1446.68,"endTime":1456.76,"body":"his questions or his concerns, I probably didn't hit me in any of those 33 touch points."},{"startTime":1456.76,"endTime":1459.48,"body":"I would argue I won him at the event when I gave him a dress."},{"startTime":1462.8400000000001,"endTime":1463.891,"body":"Hmm."},{"startTime":1464.3220000000001,"endTime":1467.073,"body":"Can I add on top just because we're not doing that now?"},{"startTime":1467.073,"endTime":1473.785,"body":"oh I think the other thing is important to look at what your site actually serves right"},{"startTime":1467.073,"endTime":1473.785,"body":"now."},{"startTime":1473.785,"endTime":1479.617,"body":"So for example, both with Channel Call and with other businesses, most of the traffic"},{"startTime":1473.785,"endTime":1479.617,"body":"comes from SEO."},{"startTime":1479.617,"endTime":1488.3960000000002,"body":"So obviously, if we don't want a website or we massively change the website, could make so"},{"startTime":1479.617,"endTime":1488.3960000000002,"body":"kind of understanding where they're important."},{"startTime":1488.3960000000002,"endTime":1498.9830000000002,"body":"points are, because if your website's getting no SEO traffic, you've not got any PPC, and"},{"startTime":1488.3960000000002,"endTime":1498.9830000000002,"body":"it's basically like a brochure, then I don't know if you should be spending lots of time"},{"startTime":1498.9830000000002,"endTime":1500.095,"body":"on it and it's worth it."},{"startTime":1500.095,"endTime":1502.1180000000002,"body":"Like that's a different discussion."},{"startTime":1503.576,"endTime":1505.7160000000001,"body":"I'll give you real world example."},{"startTime":1505.7160000000001,"endTime":1510.756,"body":"I worked for a business where we had close to nearly 200,000 unique users a month."},{"startTime":1511.928,"endTime":1524.1280000000002,"body":"business with 75 global offices and I reported on those unique user numbers and the CEO"},{"startTime":1511.928,"endTime":1524.1280000000002,"body":"said in front of all the rest of the leadership team, I don't think those numbers mean"},{"startTime":1524.1280000000002,"endTime":1525.228,"body":"shit."},{"startTime":1525.228,"endTime":1534.048,"body":"Literally we've had 40 conversions who the F are the other people and most of time we"},{"startTime":1525.228,"endTime":1534.048,"body":"can't answer that question right but we know that it's if we're doing the right things in"},{"startTime":1534.048,"endTime":1538.228,"body":"the right way but that's the concept of this CEO."},{"startTime":1538.228,"endTime":1542.308,"body":"The CEOs will always look at the bottom number"},{"startTime":1542.4350000000002,"endTime":1548.643,"body":"And if we keep talking about the top number, at some point it's going to say, well, none"},{"startTime":1542.4350000000002,"endTime":1548.643,"body":"of these are converting."},{"startTime":1548.7640000000001,"endTime":1552.99,"body":"So that's an interesting point around what the process is around conversion."}]}