{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.122,"body":"hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Blame It on Marketing."},{"startTime":3.122,"endTime":5.615,"body":"We are super excited to have Ada with us today."},{"startTime":5.615,"endTime":9.297,"body":"she is the CMO of the year Lithuania, which is very cool."},{"startTime":9.297,"endTime":12.51,"body":"I didn't even have to pull any Lithuanian strings to have this happen."},{"startTime":12.51,"endTime":15.182,"body":"It just it just came to us, so it's very exciting."},{"startTime":15.182,"endTime":17.7,"body":"we are gonna be talking about ICPs today."},{"startTime":17.7,"endTime":24.544,"body":"and I wish we didn't have to talk about them anymore because I wish just everyone, you"},{"startTime":17.7,"endTime":24.544,"body":"know, got it and did it and it was fine."},{"startTime":24.544,"endTime":25.825,"body":"But that is not the case."},{"startTime":25.825,"endTime":31.77,"body":"So we will be doing a dedicated episode on ICPs, which I'm excited to talk about because I"},{"startTime":25.825,"endTime":31.77,"body":"think we're all very passionate about that."},{"startTime":31.77,"endTime":34.011,"body":"so yeah, Ada, please introduce yourself."},{"startTime":34.435,"endTime":35.496,"body":"So my name is Ada."},{"startTime":35.496,"endTime":36.697,"body":"I'm from Lithuania."},{"startTime":36.697,"endTime":37.978,"body":"it sounds like a dating profile."},{"startTime":37.978,"endTime":38.379,"body":"Anyway."},{"startTime":38.379,"endTime":43.752,"body":"So no, so I've been in marketing in C level positions for 15 years."},{"startTime":43.752,"endTime":45.143,"body":"Now I'm 25 myself."},{"startTime":45.143,"endTime":51.428,"body":"So yeah, and I'm at the moment working for Norcurrent, which is the biggest Baltic mobile"},{"startTime":45.143,"endTime":51.428,"body":"game company."},{"startTime":51.428,"endTime":55.171,"body":"We have about 800 million downloads, about 15 million monthly players."},{"startTime":55.171,"endTime":58.034,"body":"Super dynamic, super interesting, super lot of data."},{"startTime":58.034,"endTime":60.006,"body":"And overall, I worked in many different"},{"startTime":60.006,"endTime":67.161,"body":"industries from finance to aviation and different services and at the moment gaming is"},{"startTime":60.006,"endTime":67.161,"body":"probably one of the most dynamic things I ever experienced."},{"startTime":67.161,"endTime":69.895,"body":"So when I used to say never boring, now I know what it means."},{"startTime":69.895,"endTime":70.926,"body":"I manifested it."},{"startTime":70.926,"endTime":71.895,"body":"Never boring."},{"startTime":71.895,"endTime":72.816,"body":"Excellent."},{"startTime":72.816,"endTime":75.92,"body":"I'm very excited to talk about ideal customer profiles and gaming."},{"startTime":75.92,"endTime":78.943,"body":"But before we do that, let's talk about marketing gossip adder."},{"startTime":78.943,"endTime":83.389,"body":"You can't come on this podcast unless you share with us something that you have royally"},{"startTime":78.943,"endTime":83.389,"body":"fucked up."},{"startTime":83.389,"endTime":87.213,"body":"And if it did change your life, tell us how it changed your life."},{"startTime":87.854,"endTime":90.477,"body":"You might have just been like, I've never talked about this ever again."},{"startTime":90.477,"endTime":91.374,"body":"Thanks guys."},{"startTime":91.374,"endTime":91.604,"body":"no."},{"startTime":91.604,"endTime":94.535,"body":"It's actually well because you know, I got a sneak peek to this question."},{"startTime":94.535,"endTime":96.568,"body":"I was like, I never cause I'm perfect."},{"startTime":96.568,"endTime":98.861,"body":"But yet I was thinking actually what happened."},{"startTime":98.861,"endTime":100.842,"body":"it's not like a one-time thing."},{"startTime":100.842,"endTime":105.421,"body":"I was actually thinking the way my personality has been before."},{"startTime":105.421,"endTime":112.316,"body":"certain that when I was a young professional marketeer and very big ego-driven, my you"},{"startTime":105.421,"endTime":112.316,"body":"know, my opinion's the right one and everything."},{"startTime":112.316,"endTime":115.12,"body":"And then I had babies and I wanted a maternity leave."},{"startTime":115.12,"endTime":124.753,"body":"And you see, like ego ego kind of had been healed because nobody cares when you're out and"},{"startTime":115.12,"endTime":124.753,"body":"there's no big opinions and your life kind of you know, becomes your life and at work"},{"startTime":124.753,"endTime":125.623,"body":"nobody cares."},{"startTime":125.623,"endTime":128.024,"body":"So it changed me a lot as a person."},{"startTime":128.024,"endTime":131.294,"body":"So I didn't kind of fuck up, I would say, you know, kids kids are good."},{"startTime":131.294,"endTime":136.438,"body":"but it was very interesting to see it I do love my kids the statement."},{"startTime":136.438,"endTime":138.139,"body":"Don't kids mama loves you."},{"startTime":138.139,"endTime":138.989,"body":"No, I'm kidding."},{"startTime":138.989,"endTime":140.179,"body":"no, I mean I love them."},{"startTime":140.179,"endTime":141.46,"body":"But uh"},{"startTime":141.589,"endTime":144.133,"body":"They're so into their marketing podcasts, right?"},{"startTime":144.133,"endTime":146.545,"body":"are s I'm raising the new generation."},{"startTime":146.545,"endTime":156.745,"body":"No, but I think overall the the the fuck up part is my young self, the way I had the"},{"startTime":146.545,"endTime":156.745,"body":"attitude, the way I thought like have to break the walls, the lack of and of course, you"},{"startTime":156.745,"endTime":163.41,"body":"know, it did it kind of not horribly, but when I look back at myself, I'm like, you young,"},{"startTime":156.745,"endTime":163.41,"body":"stupid, arrogant girl, look at you."},{"startTime":163.41,"endTime":164.511,"body":"So that was one thing."},{"startTime":164.511,"endTime":169.941,"body":"But if you want something more practical, in my first job in MindShare, I was working in"},{"startTime":164.511,"endTime":169.941,"body":"London in a global"},{"startTime":169.941,"endTime":170.753,"body":"media agency."},{"startTime":170.753,"endTime":175.15,"body":"I billed a client one million instead of hundred thousand pounds."},{"startTime":175.191,"endTime":180.028,"body":"So that's that's a good sadly was corrected I did not make that much money for the"},{"startTime":175.191,"endTime":180.028,"body":"company."},{"startTime":180.028,"endTime":181.78,"body":"I wish I would, but it was a big drama."},{"startTime":181.78,"endTime":182.981,"body":"So here you go."},{"startTime":183.101,"endTime":184.773,"body":"nothing like an extra zero."},{"startTime":184.773,"endTime":186.609,"body":"is just, it's very easy."},{"startTime":186.609,"endTime":187.502,"body":"It's easily done."},{"startTime":187.502,"endTime":188.344,"body":"m"},{"startTime":188.344,"endTime":188.686,"body":"it was?"},{"startTime":188.686,"endTime":191.613,"body":"It's the points and the commas, you know?"},{"startTime":191.678,"endTime":192.58,"body":"Which is which?"},{"startTime":192.58,"endTime":194.568,"body":"Well, you know, a little bit there, a little bit there."},{"startTime":194.568,"endTime":197.997,"body":"Maths, it's not my strong suit, so yeah."},{"startTime":197.997,"endTime":200.073,"body":"That's why I always use a spreadsheet."},{"startTime":200.073,"endTime":202.162,"body":"oh"},{"startTime":202.162,"endTime":205.224,"body":"can't say maths is not your strong suit and then use a spreadsheet."},{"startTime":205.224,"endTime":209.507,"body":"I don't think those two like if you don't do maths you don't do spreadsheet."},{"startTime":210.228,"endTime":211.042,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":211.042,"endTime":211.512,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":211.512,"endTime":219.266,"body":"I do also, I really like your sort of first part of your confession, Ada, because I think"},{"startTime":211.512,"endTime":219.266,"body":"that is something that I think a lot of us grapple with, especially as we're getting"},{"startTime":219.266,"endTime":220.216,"body":"older."},{"startTime":220.216,"endTime":227.219,"body":"And it sounds like you had kind of like a senior position quite young and 22, yeah."},{"startTime":228.2,"endTime":229.82,"body":"And so that is part of it, isn't it?"},{"startTime":229.82,"endTime":234.112,"body":"You kind of feel like you've got to go in there and kick some doors down and punch some"},{"startTime":229.82,"endTime":234.112,"body":"people in the face."},{"startTime":234.112,"endTime":238.423,"body":"And as you get bit older, you're like, maybe I don't need to punch everyone in the face."},{"startTime":238.598,"endTime":243.601,"body":"It becomes it's it's you kumbaya, my lord it sounds, but it becomes like it's a common"},{"startTime":238.598,"endTime":243.601,"body":"goal."},{"startTime":243.601,"endTime":246.713,"body":"At this point, I don't have to prove anything to anyone."},{"startTime":246.713,"endTime":248.435,"body":"My success is company's success."},{"startTime":248.435,"endTime":254.429,"body":"And it takes a while I think it takes a while for all of us to understand, like if I shine"},{"startTime":248.435,"endTime":254.429,"body":"but the team doesn't shine, it's not worth it."},{"startTime":254.429,"endTime":256.101,"body":"If we shine but the result is not there."},{"startTime":256.101,"endTime":258.485,"body":"So it's you know, it's a common good and it's difficult."},{"startTime":258.485,"endTime":263.34,"body":"maybe also what helped me now is the environment I am in, which is more kind of a"},{"startTime":263.573,"endTime":270.276,"body":"appreciative of that and if you're in a hardcore corporate where you need to, you know,"},{"startTime":263.573,"endTime":270.276,"body":"bunch shoulders and everyone's like, it's a fight, it's difficult."},{"startTime":270.298,"endTime":273.997,"body":"But I think the work quality in the end in the right environment that's what matters."},{"startTime":273.997,"endTime":274.687,"body":"I like it."},{"startTime":274.687,"endTime":276.099,"body":"We need some zen on this podcast."},{"startTime":276.099,"endTime":278.412,"body":"Sometimes we're a bit too like, yeah, fuck everyone."},{"startTime":278.412,"endTime":280.385,"body":"it, no, no, realistically don't."},{"startTime":280.385,"endTime":286.73,"body":"Yeah, I I I just started working with somebody that I've known for years, but the last"},{"startTime":280.385,"endTime":286.73,"body":"time we worked together I was like twenty one."},{"startTime":286.73,"endTime":291.223,"body":"And I'm just like a whole different human being now because I'm thirty two."},{"startTime":291.223,"endTime":298.989,"body":"and we had a call where I was like quite sassy, not sassy, but like quite direct and quite"},{"startTime":291.223,"endTime":298.989,"body":"like inquisitive of an agency we were talking to."},{"startTime":298.989,"endTime":301.27,"body":"And he was like, she's like Brutus back."},{"startTime":301.27,"endTime":303.171,"body":"brutal Ruta and I was like, she never went away."},{"startTime":303.171,"endTime":310.447,"body":"I've just developed other personality aspects, you know, like I can bring her back, but"},{"startTime":303.171,"endTime":310.447,"body":"you know, there's there's other things to work with now and we've just had a good laugh"},{"startTime":310.447,"endTime":310.798,"body":"about it."},{"startTime":310.798,"endTime":311.748,"body":"So yeah."},{"startTime":311.961,"endTime":313.301,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":313.329,"endTime":314.11,"body":"No."},{"startTime":314.11,"endTime":314.53,"body":"No."},{"startTime":314.53,"endTime":315.75,"body":"No exactly."},{"startTime":316.011,"endTime":317.152,"body":"Well, wonderful."},{"startTime":317.152,"endTime":317.992,"body":"So"},{"startTime":318.836,"endTime":321.522,"body":"I'm gonna call myself Bada from now on."},{"startTime":322.128,"endTime":323.806,"body":"Bada bada."},{"startTime":323.806,"endTime":324.577,"body":"it."},{"startTime":324.587,"endTime":325.038,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":325.038,"endTime":329.348,"body":"Works on two levels as well, not just brutal but also, you know, like bad bitch, badder."},{"startTime":329.348,"endTime":329.856,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":329.856,"endTime":333.352,"body":"From now on I'll be like today in the meeting, it's Ada or Bada you choose."},{"startTime":333.352,"endTime":334.233,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":334.353,"endTime":334.934,"body":"I love it."},{"startTime":334.934,"endTime":335.455,"body":"I love it."},{"startTime":335.455,"endTime":339.954,"body":"So, let's start with like really stupid basics, right?"},{"startTime":340.039,"endTime":342.381,"body":"what is an ICP actually meant to be?"},{"startTime":342.381,"endTime":343.894,"body":"So I'll talk from my perspective."},{"startTime":343.894,"endTime":347.371,"body":"I always take a thing that I'm not lecturing, I'm not a academic professor."},{"startTime":347.371,"endTime":350.947,"body":"So for me it's our c the"},{"startTime":351.021,"endTime":353.372,"body":"Clients that bring us the most mutual value."},{"startTime":353.372,"endTime":354.354,"body":"I perceive it like this."},{"startTime":354.354,"endTime":357.935,"body":"So a group of clients that brings us as a group the biggest value."},{"startTime":357.935,"endTime":366.832,"body":"And I think a big mistake a lot of times we do is we confuse it with demographics or"},{"startTime":357.935,"endTime":366.832,"body":"personas or target audience, and that's definitely not that."},{"startTime":366.832,"endTime":369.954,"body":"And a lot of times it actually kind of a pins the problem."},{"startTime":369.954,"endTime":374.606,"body":"It's like, no, but we are targeting this to 25 year old women, and that is not ICP."},{"startTime":374.606,"endTime":378.648,"body":"That is your target audience, which is not necessarily a good thing, and it's very"},{"startTime":378.648,"endTime":381.271,"body":"broad and not necessarily necessarily very valuable."},{"startTime":381.271,"endTime":383.928,"body":"So I would describe it like that I think."},{"startTime":383.928,"endTime":384.438,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":384.438,"endTime":386.541,"body":"some of the aspects you would be looking for?"},{"startTime":386.541,"endTime":391.701,"body":"So if you're trying to evaluate who's the most valuable both ways, what are the aspects"},{"startTime":386.541,"endTime":391.701,"body":"you're you're focusing on?"},{"startTime":391.701,"endTime":397.083,"body":"So overall, you know, I I wanna kinda wanna say don't lean just on data, but firstly you"},{"startTime":391.701,"endTime":397.083,"body":"lean on data."},{"startTime":397.083,"endTime":401.186,"body":"So you look at the people who bring you the most monies, because we all like the monies."},{"startTime":401.186,"endTime":402.448,"body":"And then basic math."},{"startTime":402.448,"endTime":406.051,"body":"Uh well, you find the monies, you look for patterns."},{"startTime":406.051,"endTime":414.597,"body":"you look for the patterns which are which are repet repetitive and that you can apply to"},{"startTime":406.051,"endTime":414.597,"body":"say, okay, well these ten clients, saying minimal for example, or whatever numbers, have"},{"startTime":414.597,"endTime":415.538,"body":"something in common."},{"startTime":415.538,"endTime":418.559,"body":"And that's how you start building the ICP kind of"},{"startTime":418.559,"endTime":421.37,"body":"groups because it can be number of ICPs on different levels."},{"startTime":421.37,"endTime":425.721,"body":"But basically you start from the data and you go backwards into building a client base."},{"startTime":425.881,"endTime":433.985,"body":"And a lot of times these are maybe not even the clients we have right now, but you can"},{"startTime":425.881,"endTime":433.985,"body":"look into like lifetime value and acqu acquisition costs and retention costs and see well"},{"startTime":433.985,"endTime":437.461,"body":"actually this would be my client because that's where the money lies."},{"startTime":437.461,"endTime":438.733,"body":"Yep, absolutely."},{"startTime":438.733,"endTime":443.433,"body":"And then what's your view on who owns the ideal customer profile?"},{"startTime":443.433,"endTime":447.73,"body":"obviously traditionally it's something, it feels like it gets filed away in a drawer"},{"startTime":443.433,"endTime":447.73,"body":"somewhere, doesn't it?"},{"startTime":447.73,"endTime":450.343,"body":"Along with all the other marketing stuff, personas, et cetera."},{"startTime":450.343,"endTime":461.892,"body":"But when I've seen an ICP work the best, it's been where the product team have actually"},{"startTime":450.343,"endTime":461.892,"body":"kind of been the ones that sort of own it with marketing input and data, but they own it"},{"startTime":461.892,"endTime":464.474,"body":"because they're trying to build for the ICP, right?"},{"startTime":464.474,"endTime":466.455,"body":"But what's your view on that?"},{"startTime":466.455,"endTime":470.938,"body":"Do you think that's for us to own or do you feel like it works when someone else does?"},{"startTime":470.938,"endTime":472.119,"body":"It has to be everywhere."},{"startTime":472.119,"endTime":473.588,"body":"In my opinion, it has to be everywhere."},{"startTime":473.588,"endTime":478.682,"body":"So if you put in a marketing, it's gonna be left as a targeting tool because there's only"},{"startTime":473.588,"endTime":478.682,"body":"so much we can do in marketing."},{"startTime":478.682,"endTime":482.125,"body":"We can use it to perform the messages, sort things and so on."},{"startTime":482.125,"endTime":490.189,"body":"In product, definitely, because when you know which people bring you the most money, what"},{"startTime":482.125,"endTime":490.189,"body":"are the behaviors, what are their needs, likes, economics, and so on, you can build much"},{"startTime":490.189,"endTime":491.649,"body":"more for that audience."},{"startTime":491.811,"endTime":493.291,"body":"customer support."},{"startTime":493.291,"endTime":499.188,"body":"If your target audience are the best, are 90-year-old ladies who need to live in Canada"},{"startTime":493.291,"endTime":499.188,"body":"and like beaver."},{"startTime":499.188,"endTime":502.245,"body":"You're probably not gonna go like hey stop you know."},{"startTime":502.245,"endTime":504.508,"body":"It's very niche, I like it."},{"startTime":504.549,"endTime":505.585,"body":"As it should be."},{"startTime":505.585,"endTime":508.966,"body":"I well, I'm not judging those ladies who like, you know, knitting and beavers."},{"startTime":508.966,"endTime":516.33,"body":"But the idea also what the process a lot of times is if you have the group that you"},{"startTime":508.966,"endTime":516.33,"body":"identify, it's good also to take some individuals you can interview to understand the"},{"startTime":516.33,"endTime":520.393,"body":"patterns of the group, how to communicate, what do they need, what problem are you"},{"startTime":516.33,"endTime":520.393,"body":"solving?"},{"startTime":520.393,"endTime":526.177,"body":"Because a lot of times, you know, there's no problem solvement, there's not a product, or"},{"startTime":520.393,"endTime":526.177,"body":"the product is like we're better 'cause we are more pretty."},{"startTime":526.177,"endTime":531.429,"body":"So which is difficult in gaming 'cause we, you know, we ultimately all s solve kind of the"},{"startTime":526.177,"endTime":531.429,"body":"same problem."},{"startTime":531.429,"endTime":533.26,"body":"But if you're selling services or goods"},{"startTime":533.26,"endTime":536.31,"body":"It's these things should be in absolutely every department."},{"startTime":536.31,"endTime":539.497,"body":"Maybe accounting can live without it, I would say."},{"startTime":540.023,"endTime":543.903,"body":"Do you love it when the CFO knows the ICP?"},{"startTime":543.903,"endTime":546.363,"body":"Then it always makes your life easier."},{"startTime":546.363,"endTime":549.803,"body":"Like I've, you know, you're in a meeting, you're like, oh, oh, hello."},{"startTime":549.903,"endTime":551.343,"body":"You know, do you?"},{"startTime":551.343,"endTime":552.164,"body":"Fabulous."},{"startTime":552.164,"endTime":554.746,"body":"we call them well of course we call them the whales."},{"startTime":554.746,"endTime":556.567,"body":"So these are the big spenders."},{"startTime":556.567,"endTime":557.957,"body":"Yes, they're called the whales."},{"startTime":557.957,"endTime":559.938,"body":"So not about the size, but the amount of money they spend."},{"startTime":559.938,"endTime":565.341,"body":"So what we try to do is of course, depending on a game, sometimes you have a list of like"},{"startTime":559.938,"endTime":565.341,"body":"fifty people or a hundred people, whatever."},{"startTime":565.341,"endTime":566.792,"body":"These are like super big spenders."},{"startTime":566.792,"endTime":568.473,"body":"But again, you look at the patterns."},{"startTime":568.473,"endTime":569.503,"body":"Why are they playing?"},{"startTime":569.503,"endTime":570.704,"body":"What are they doing in the game?"},{"startTime":570.704,"endTime":572.384,"body":"What qua like what's the motivation?"},{"startTime":572.384,"endTime":574.096,"body":"Is it the show of how good it is?"},{"startTime":574.096,"endTime":574.997,"body":"Is it the creative part?"},{"startTime":574.997,"endTime":579.579,"body":"So and then you start also basing on those because you understand how much profit does the"},{"startTime":574.997,"endTime":579.579,"body":"big"},{"startTime":579.579,"endTime":581.704,"body":"They bring and how much this casual player brings."},{"startTime":581.704,"endTime":584.461,"body":"And our CFO definitely knows what the whale is."},{"startTime":584.461,"endTime":585.261,"body":"So"},{"startTime":585.472,"endTime":586.033,"body":"I love that."},{"startTime":586.033,"endTime":589.721,"body":"Maybe we need to start introducing this router into B2B SaaS."},{"startTime":589.721,"endTime":591.964,"body":"We're going after the whales guys."},{"startTime":592.587,"endTime":600.203,"body":"It's it's interesting for me now we're working with for example Chinese with China with"},{"startTime":592.587,"endTime":600.203,"body":"social media and the different wordings they have for different things."},{"startTime":600.203,"endTime":608.688,"body":"So for example they it's not really to ICP but just fun names, so they list their"},{"startTime":600.203,"endTime":608.688,"body":"audiences of KOL, key opinion leaders."},{"startTime":608.688,"endTime":617.112,"body":"So there's the head, the ones that have the most following, there's the neck, there's the"},{"startTime":608.688,"endTime":617.112,"body":"waist, there's the crown, there's the tail, and this is like depending on stuff."},{"startTime":617.112,"endTime":620.414,"body":"Yeah, 'cause we go like, you know, micro medium."},{"startTime":620.595,"endTime":621.135,"body":"They have"},{"startTime":621.135,"endTime":627.029,"body":"layers and they all know about it so so I'm laughing at my team like you're gonna be my"},{"startTime":621.135,"endTime":627.029,"body":"head and you're gonna be my tail so"},{"startTime":627.068,"endTime":632.59,"body":"It's I never like obviously we all talk about marketing in a fairly westernized English"},{"startTime":627.068,"endTime":632.59,"body":"first way."},{"startTime":632.59,"endTime":639.332,"body":"So we all kind of use the same words, but obviously in a in a whole different market with"},{"startTime":632.59,"endTime":639.332,"body":"a whole different language, they all have different like metaphors for different groups,"},{"startTime":639.332,"endTime":639.733,"body":"etc."},{"startTime":639.733,"endTime":641.454,"body":"So yeah, that's that's actually really interesting."},{"startTime":641.454,"endTime":648.696,"body":"so I the other question that I actually wanted to ask, so as you mentioned, you kind of"},{"startTime":641.454,"endTime":648.696,"body":"were an agency and then you've worked in several different"},{"startTime":648.696,"endTime":650.789,"body":"sectors, B to B, B to C."},{"startTime":650.789,"endTime":661.839,"body":"has working in gaming changed how you perceive I C P or has it changed like how much you"},{"startTime":650.789,"endTime":661.839,"body":"appreciate it because it's kind of different, I assume, than normal B to B?"},{"startTime":661.988,"endTime":668.831,"body":"I think ICP overall is at least in Lithuania at the moment, is is not very much used at"},{"startTime":661.988,"endTime":668.831,"body":"all."},{"startTime":668.831,"endTime":671.253,"body":"I think it's it's still baby steps."},{"startTime":671.253,"endTime":676.067,"body":"we have target audiences and and a good example, you know, it's always easier to talk"},{"startTime":671.253,"endTime":676.067,"body":"about others than ourselves."},{"startTime":676.067,"endTime":683.012,"body":"we had lunch with one with a head of communication for one of the biggest"},{"startTime":676.067,"endTime":683.012,"body":"telecommunications company in Lithuania and they're talking about their issues and of"},{"startTime":683.012,"endTime":687.046,"body":"course me being stupid I give them a lot of free advice 'cause you know, the coffee."},{"startTime":687.046,"endTime":689.397,"body":"but I'm like, you know, 'cause they have problems"},{"startTime":689.397,"endTime":696.432,"body":"With with customer service and the personalized offers, and and I'm like, okay, but you"},{"startTime":689.397,"endTime":696.432,"body":"know, what's your client's LTD?"},{"startTime":696.432,"endTime":698.954,"body":"Like, what's your he's like, I'm not sure."},{"startTime":698.954,"endTime":701.395,"body":"I'm like, is it cheaper to retain?"},{"startTime":701.395,"endTime":703.617,"body":"Is it cheaper to get new clients?"},{"startTime":703.617,"endTime":704.799,"body":"Why are you pushing for new?"},{"startTime":704.799,"endTime":706.321,"body":"He's like, I don't know."},{"startTime":706.321,"endTime":708.933,"body":"I'm like, so who's who's who's your good client?"},{"startTime":708.933,"endTime":714.759,"body":"I'm like, you're just like, yeah, we've been pushed to have a lot of new clients, but you"},{"startTime":708.933,"endTime":714.759,"body":"don't know what's the the value in that financially."},{"startTime":714.759,"endTime":716.743,"body":"So I think overall a lot of companies, and I"},{"startTime":716.743,"endTime":724.08,"body":"worked in finance stuff, you look at the what's your audience again demographically, where"},{"startTime":716.743,"endTime":724.08,"body":"they live, what kind of basic need they might have, but you don't understand what's the"},{"startTime":724.08,"endTime":724.801,"body":"money behind it."},{"startTime":724.801,"endTime":730.606,"body":"So in mobile gaming it's an interesting thing because we track absolutely everything, you"},{"startTime":724.801,"endTime":730.606,"body":"know."},{"startTime":730.793,"endTime":731.247,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":731.247,"endTime":733.018,"body":"day return two day retention activity."},{"startTime":733.018,"endTime":737.61,"body":"So absolutely everything, but the fun thing is that we track depersonalize, at least our"},{"startTime":733.018,"endTime":737.61,"body":"company."},{"startTime":737.61,"endTime":739.631,"body":"So we don't know if you're a man or a woman."},{"startTime":739.631,"endTime":743.423,"body":"We only know the closest mobile internet tower next to your house."},{"startTime":743.423,"endTime":744.373,"body":"We don't even know where you live."},{"startTime":744.373,"endTime":747.646,"body":"So it's very depersonalized, but we track your behavior."},{"startTime":747.646,"endTime":752.839,"body":"And based on that, our success of the product of our user acquisition is all based on your"},{"startTime":747.646,"endTime":752.839,"body":"behavior."},{"startTime":752.839,"endTime":755.912,"body":"And then we see patterns of which we build the the client."},{"startTime":755.912,"endTime":758.804,"body":"So for me, actually, probably it's the first company where we"},{"startTime":758.804,"endTime":769.251,"body":"actually even without fully understanding we use ICP because it comes so naturally you"},{"startTime":758.804,"endTime":769.251,"body":"don't you don't even go like this is ICP like no this is a whale this is uh because you"},{"startTime":769.251,"endTime":777.716,"body":"know you you can create ICP based on behavior for example we have different types of"},{"startTime":769.251,"endTime":777.716,"body":"monetization people who are purchasing in the app and people who are playing and grinding"},{"startTime":777.716,"endTime":783.938,"body":"hours by watching ads and based on those already have two groups of patterns and their"},{"startTime":777.716,"endTime":783.938,"body":"behaviors and what they need so one needs more app"},{"startTime":783.938,"endTime":786.451,"body":"more advertising and app so we can build more opportunities there."},{"startTime":786.451,"endTime":790.266,"body":"Another one needs no apps, needs subscriber models and so on."},{"startTime":790.266,"endTime":792.369,"body":"So even the product is built depending on that."},{"startTime":792.369,"endTime":796.396,"body":"So but when we started talking about ICP I was like, my God, do we do that?"},{"startTime":796.396,"endTime":802.012,"body":"I'm like, do because we we don't go you know with a flag of like ICP ICP and I'm like of"},{"startTime":796.396,"endTime":802.012,"body":"course we just don't name it."},{"startTime":802.012,"endTime":811.204,"body":"So I think now it's the first company where we actually do it very kind of detailed and"},{"startTime":802.012,"endTime":811.204,"body":"targeting for that and learning and building new products for that and even taking that"},{"startTime":811.204,"endTime":814.717,"body":"out to community management and what we're doing outside the game."},{"startTime":814.986,"endTime":823.372,"body":"that's what the learning here is for everyone else is because you guys are doing it"},{"startTime":814.986,"endTime":823.372,"body":"intrinsically because of the behavior of the people playing the games and it would be good"},{"startTime":823.372,"endTime":832.699,"body":"for people like in our industry to see it that way like there are there is you know most"},{"startTime":823.372,"endTime":832.699,"body":"tech in particular because Ruta and I work predominantly with B2B tech you know there is"},{"startTime":832.699,"endTime":836.796,"body":"usage behavior there are patterns there are those things but we never"},{"startTime":836.796,"endTime":840.791,"body":"I would almost go as far as saying never use that in an ICP."},{"startTime":840.791,"endTime":848.082,"body":"Like because it sits with marketing and we so rarely get that usage information or even"},{"startTime":840.791,"endTime":848.082,"body":"adoption behavior, all of that sort of stuff."},{"startTime":848.082,"endTime":849.623,"body":"But that is really the key."},{"startTime":849.623,"endTime":852.751,"body":"think if you're in tech, if you're not in tech, I think you've got different."},{"startTime":852.751,"endTime":855.373,"body":"don't get the data about adoption?"},{"startTime":855.373,"endTime":856.407,"body":"very rarely."},{"startTime":856.407,"endTime":857.963,"body":"It's like it's like shit data."},{"startTime":857.963,"endTime":861.801,"body":"It's like conversion rates, which is not really like behavior data."},{"startTime":861.801,"endTime":871.098,"body":"But that's the thing, is like for me, I am a strong believer in the loop overall and it's"},{"startTime":861.801,"endTime":871.098,"body":"like, you know, marketing looping to the product and the only way is like 'cause if you"},{"startTime":871.098,"endTime":880.863,"body":"again, now I understand much more when I'm in gaming, but like my user acquisition journey"},{"startTime":871.098,"endTime":880.863,"body":"can impact their retention because I if I bring not the right ones, I can get you I was"},{"startTime":880.863,"endTime":881.204,"body":"laughing."},{"startTime":881.204,"endTime":882.014,"body":"You need clients?"},{"startTime":882.014,"endTime":883.635,"body":"I'll give you ten thousand clients now."},{"startTime":883.635,"endTime":885.065,"body":"But if are they gonna stay?"},{"startTime":885.065,"endTime":885.91,"body":"Are they gonna purchase?"},{"startTime":885.91,"endTime":886.726,"body":"Are they gonna adapt?"},{"startTime":886.726,"endTime":890.178,"body":"What's the so the fact that you don't get a the you know, the those who"},{"startTime":890.178,"endTime":891.276,"body":"I'm shook, I'm shook."},{"startTime":891.276,"endTime":892.15,"body":"really..."},{"startTime":892.15,"endTime":895.892,"body":"most like I can not most, that's that's a bad word."},{"startTime":895.892,"endTime":901.036,"body":"There's a lot of product teams in B2B tech that don't even look at the analytics"},{"startTime":895.892,"endTime":901.036,"body":"themselves."},{"startTime":901.036,"endTime":903.318,"body":"They just build whatever the fuck they want to build."},{"startTime":903.318,"endTime":905.659,"body":"So like Yeah."},{"startTime":906.86,"endTime":907.164,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":907.164,"endTime":914.811,"body":"They kind of make a lot of assumptions about what people they think people want without"},{"startTime":907.164,"endTime":914.811,"body":"really ever validating it."},{"startTime":914.811,"endTime":916.557,"body":"It's bit like the Wild West."},{"startTime":916.557,"endTime":925.631,"body":"I always say also to my team who are like working because we do a lot like the amount of"},{"startTime":916.557,"endTime":925.631,"body":"creatives and advertising and we have like ridiculous amounts or actions we're testing out"},{"startTime":925.631,"endTime":928.123,"body":"and they're like, yeah, but doesn't like I don't like it."},{"startTime":928.123,"endTime":930.304,"body":"I'm like, are you the client?"},{"startTime":930.304,"endTime":931.184,"body":"No."},{"startTime":931.434,"endTime":939.379,"body":"We we don't it's the same the same problem, like the basic example to any kind of BTB"},{"startTime":931.434,"endTime":939.379,"body":"you're gonna be watching, we do TikTok and it works for us."},{"startTime":939.379,"endTime":941.371,"body":"And last year was one of the most spending channels."},{"startTime":941.371,"endTime":947.194,"body":"The TikToks that work are ridiculous, but like just like bzong cause bad."},{"startTime":947.194,"endTime":948.475,"body":"Some of them are horrible."},{"startTime":948.475,"endTime":951.688,"body":"And some of our you know, management or other is like, this is shit."},{"startTime":951.688,"endTime":953.308,"body":"I'm like, are you on TikTok?"},{"startTime":953.308,"endTime":954.038,"body":"No."},{"startTime":954.078,"endTime":955.249,"body":"That's about that."},{"startTime":955.249,"endTime":956.209,"body":"That's about that."},{"startTime":956.209,"endTime":956.889,"body":"So it's the same."},{"startTime":956.889,"endTime":965.023,"body":"It's like you need to like when you create product, in my opinion, when you do marketing,"},{"startTime":956.889,"endTime":965.023,"body":"you think about mess is not, and that may be another thing I learned for the stepping out"},{"startTime":965.023,"endTime":965.814,"body":"of the bitch age."},{"startTime":965.814,"endTime":967.544,"body":"It's it's not me."},{"startTime":967.544,"endTime":968.535,"body":"I'm not the client."},{"startTime":968.535,"endTime":969.385,"body":"It's not for me."},{"startTime":969.385,"endTime":972.718,"body":"It's about what works in the end, and what works is based on numbers."},{"startTime":972.718,"endTime":977.502,"body":"And now in marketing, that that's the pain point for me that we can measure almost"},{"startTime":972.718,"endTime":977.502,"body":"everything."},{"startTime":977.502,"endTime":979.507,"body":"we're gonna send this episode to people later."},{"startTime":979.507,"endTime":980.849,"body":"Like I I feel it."},{"startTime":980.849,"endTime":981.509,"body":"I can feel it."},{"startTime":981.509,"endTime":982.772,"body":"Just like go watch this."},{"startTime":982.772,"endTime":984.075,"body":"Then talk to me."},{"startTime":984.075,"endTime":985.196,"body":"don't talk to us."},{"startTime":985.196,"endTime":990.77,"body":"I actually think from now on when we go into a new business route, we should be like,"},{"startTime":985.196,"endTime":990.77,"body":"unless you've got usage data, I'm not gonna work for you."},{"startTime":990.77,"endTime":992.371,"body":"Yeah, what's happening there guys?"},{"startTime":992.371,"endTime":993.272,"body":"What's going on?"},{"startTime":993.272,"endTime":1004.821,"body":"I'm yeah, I'm about to start a a contract and I think we're gonna revamp the trial"},{"startTime":993.272,"endTime":1004.821,"body":"process, which I now I'm very like inspired slash cognizant of all the things that I want"},{"startTime":1004.821,"endTime":1009.226,"body":"from this conversation to be worked in there and the data that we want, so I'm I'm"},{"startTime":1004.821,"endTime":1009.226,"body":"excited."},{"startTime":1009.226,"endTime":1014.991,"body":"so obviously you guys are using ICP like so intrinsically you don't even call it that, you"},{"startTime":1009.226,"endTime":1014.991,"body":"don't need to talk about it."},{"startTime":1014.991,"endTime":1019.434,"body":"Can you can you give us like a practical example?"},{"startTime":1019.622,"endTime":1026.631,"body":"of something that you've done based on that that you're kind of proud of and that you"},{"startTime":1019.622,"endTime":1026.631,"body":"thought was a very good experiment or very good outcome."},{"startTime":1026.631,"endTime":1026.963,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1026.963,"endTime":1027.736,"body":"took me a moment."},{"startTime":1027.736,"endTime":1030.296,"body":"so for example, again, for me now"},{"startTime":1030.296,"endTime":1033.367,"body":"For us, a lot of things come back from the data from outside within."},{"startTime":1033.367,"endTime":1037.431,"body":"It's not we're sitting and we're generating, so you kind of have eyes and then test it"},{"startTime":1033.367,"endTime":1037.431,"body":"out."},{"startTime":1037.431,"endTime":1045.169,"body":"So if we're talking, for example, from marketing side, we had a TikToker who created a"},{"startTime":1037.431,"endTime":1045.169,"body":"little video playing our game really, really fast, like crazy level fast."},{"startTime":1045.169,"endTime":1046.399,"body":"It had some traction."},{"startTime":1046.399,"endTime":1049.351,"body":"We did some whitelisting for for the B2B people."},{"startTime":1049.351,"endTime":1054.104,"body":"It's when you pay money from somebody's flow, so we push kind of organic content."},{"startTime":1054.104,"endTime":1056.258,"body":"This little beautiful Indonesian lady."},{"startTime":1056.258,"endTime":1067.488,"body":"has now 900 million views but what happened out of that yes yes with that popular but what"},{"startTime":1056.258,"endTime":1067.488,"body":"happened out of that and what we started doing is we she created a community of people who"},{"startTime":1067.488,"endTime":1076.776,"body":"are like that who are moms staying at home working and they're playing the game we started"},{"startTime":1067.488,"endTime":1076.776,"body":"seeing what they need we started pushing you know build kind of an audience based on her"},{"startTime":1076.776,"endTime":1083.984,"body":"and her community because we saw the people around her who were playing and started"},{"startTime":1076.776,"endTime":1083.984,"body":"streaming themselves out of this we have like 10 15 hardcore streamers and"},{"startTime":1083.984,"endTime":1093.782,"body":"Indonesia and year on year we grew 683 percent if I'm not mistaken because again we"},{"startTime":1083.984,"endTime":1093.782,"body":"started putting money we started you using producer position but we didn't before like we"},{"startTime":1093.782,"endTime":1096.885,"body":"wouldn't go like Indonesia is the place to put money in a mobile gaming."},{"startTime":1096.885,"endTime":1098.836,"body":"It's like not you know boom."},{"startTime":1099.357,"endTime":1101.178,"body":"And out of that she formed a community."},{"startTime":1101.178,"endTime":1107.165,"body":"Out of that, we analyzed how much you know what are the purchases it worth because same"},{"startTime":1101.178,"endTime":1107.165,"body":"thing can happen with all due respect in India, but"},{"startTime":1107.165,"endTime":1108.877,"body":"The money value is not gonna be there."},{"startTime":1108.877,"endTime":1115.88,"body":"And so this is an example where you kind of well look, of course it was kind of you can"},{"startTime":1108.877,"endTime":1115.88,"body":"say it was easy because we had a success story and so on, but it can be done the same way"},{"startTime":1115.88,"endTime":1116.541,"body":"in a B2B."},{"startTime":1116.541,"endTime":1121.983,"body":"You have some clients who are high power usage and you see good data, you go like, Why we?"},{"startTime":1121.983,"endTime":1123.474,"body":"Why we and not others?"},{"startTime":1123.474,"endTime":1125.035,"body":"What are why are we better for you?"},{"startTime":1125.035,"endTime":1127.646,"body":"And out of that you can build and see what's the pattern."},{"startTime":1127.646,"endTime":1136.45,"body":"Because a lot of times, again, people come and they're like, this is the product because I"},{"startTime":1127.646,"endTime":1136.45,"body":"I am on the end of a lot of sales calls or pitches, or I have a next one."},{"startTime":1136.45,"endTime":1138.751,"body":"Tool that's just gonna change your life."},{"startTime":1139.331,"endTime":1144.561,"body":"And they sell me things that I don't need, but in that process, I hear I'm like, but I"},{"startTime":1139.331,"endTime":1144.561,"body":"actually do you do this and this?"},{"startTime":1144.561,"endTime":1146.074,"body":"And they're like, Yeah, we do."},{"startTime":1146.074,"endTime":1156.309,"body":"So this way, like understand your best financially clients, see why they're choosing you,"},{"startTime":1146.074,"endTime":1156.309,"body":"and then go from there and try to see what you can build around a similar company."},{"startTime":1156.309,"endTime":1161.775,"body":"So it's kind of a D2C example, but it can be reapplied with very good outcome."},{"startTime":1161.775,"endTime":1164.013,"body":"I think that's a really interesting also kind of"},{"startTime":1164.013,"endTime":1166.514,"body":"I don't want to say cautionary tale because it's a good thing."},{"startTime":1166.514,"endTime":1174.386,"body":"But you know, sometimes you have data outliers when you're doing your thing and it's very"},{"startTime":1166.514,"endTime":1174.386,"body":"easy to just kind of plow on and do the thing that you plan to do and not look at these"},{"startTime":1174.386,"endTime":1177.787,"body":"like little things that are happening that you might not notice before."},{"startTime":1177.787,"endTime":1182.618,"body":"And actually, you know, this has ended up being a great geography for you guys and a great"},{"startTime":1177.787,"endTime":1182.618,"body":"community for you guys."},{"startTime":1182.618,"endTime":1188.201,"body":"But if you didn't pay attention to that video that did well, but like it wasn't, you know,"},{"startTime":1182.618,"endTime":1188.201,"body":"amazing."},{"startTime":1190.73,"endTime":1190.219,"body":"yeah a lot of people would ignore that right?"},{"startTime":1190.219,"endTime":1195.269,"body":"so like talking about some of the things that people get wrong when it comes to an ideal"},{"startTime":1190.219,"endTime":1195.269,"body":"customer profile is they.."},{"startTime":1195.269,"endTime":1203.258,"body":"one of the big ones is they're like i can sell this to anyone like and i'm sure you must"},{"startTime":1195.269,"endTime":1203.258,"body":"get that in gaming all the time like everyone will play this game and it's like well"},{"startTime":1203.258,"endTime":1207.584,"body":"that's just not not the reality that's just not gonna happen"},{"startTime":1207.584,"endTime":1216.173,"body":"I wouldn't like we we also know from like around social media and social sport and stuff,"},{"startTime":1207.584,"endTime":1216.173,"body":"we understand that for example our games are more female targeted and there's a different"},{"startTime":1216.173,"endTime":1217.635,"body":"but again, there's a different need."},{"startTime":1217.635,"endTime":1218.592,"body":"Like there's"},{"startTime":1218.592,"endTime":1226.016,"body":"Men more again, don't go in like not to go into stereotypes, but men, you know, play more"},{"startTime":1218.592,"endTime":1226.016,"body":"for strategy or kind of a some kind of it it's just different needs."},{"startTime":1226.016,"endTime":1235.882,"body":"We have also a lot of men playing, but the majority is females and w we definitely"},{"startTime":1226.016,"endTime":1235.882,"body":"definitely not everybody's gonna play, not everyone's gonna use and and no shoe fits"},{"startTime":1235.882,"endTime":1246.45,"body":"everybody and I know for me the simple motivation in the end is always the PL and that's"},{"startTime":1235.882,"endTime":1246.45,"body":"why I don't understand when people are not thinking about it because the amount of money"},{"startTime":1246.45,"endTime":1246.933,"body":"again"},{"startTime":1246.933,"endTime":1248.033,"body":"Simple simple magic."},{"startTime":1248.033,"endTime":1253.588,"body":"So if we're putting I don't know, one million euros into the global marketing, right?"},{"startTime":1253.728,"endTime":1255.909,"body":"It puts little drops all over the place."},{"startTime":1255.909,"endTime":1263.462,"body":"But if you know that that now has traction and that has value, you put the same amount of"},{"startTime":1255.909,"endTime":1263.462,"body":"money in one, the the return was will be totally different."},{"startTime":1263.462,"endTime":1266.273,"body":"So for me it's just simple, straight math."},{"startTime":1266.894,"endTime":1267.293,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1267.293,"endTime":1269.89,"body":"yeah, I really wish more people would think like that."},{"startTime":1269.89,"endTime":1270.71,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1273.713,"endTime":1274.674,"body":"We'll have that for you."},{"startTime":1274.674,"endTime":1276.946,"body":"We will we will push that for you if you need us to."},{"startTime":1276.946,"endTime":1278.917,"body":"Um yeah."},{"startTime":1279.458,"endTime":1279.998,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1279.998,"endTime":1280.685,"body":"working."},{"startTime":1280.685,"endTime":1288.625,"body":"if you were gonna start like so if you're working at a company that's already quite well"},{"startTime":1280.685,"endTime":1288.625,"body":"established there's maybe perhaps a little bit of reticence about icps you know maybe"},{"startTime":1288.625,"endTime":1297.657,"body":"there is that like oh we consult everybody and you're a marketer and you're listening to"},{"startTime":1288.625,"endTime":1297.657,"body":"this and go i just really want us to have an icp where would you start"},{"startTime":1310.75,"endTime":1312.804,"body":"So we start with the boring part, the data."},{"startTime":1312.804,"endTime":1317.43,"body":"Identify where you know sort by most income."},{"startTime":1317.43,"endTime":1318.351,"body":"Whoop."},{"startTime":1318.612,"endTime":1320.4740000000002,"body":"You see you have the list of most income."},{"startTime":1320.4740000000002,"endTime":1322.6960000000001,"body":"And then I said, look for the patterns."},{"startTime":1322.867,"endTime":1332.443,"body":"Look for the patterns, whether it is I don't know, industry, I'm just ballparking now, but"},{"startTime":1322.867,"endTime":1332.443,"body":"try to look about deeper, not only like demographics or but just a little bit deeper."},{"startTime":1332.443,"endTime":1337.8490000000002,"body":"What's if it's for example B2B software, you know what specifics of the tool are they"},{"startTime":1332.443,"endTime":1337.8490000000002,"body":"using?"},{"startTime":1337.8490000000002,"endTime":1338.769,"body":"How oftenly?"},{"startTime":1338.769,"endTime":1339.98,"body":"What is the paid plan?"},{"startTime":1339.98,"endTime":1348.9350000000002,"body":"Like how many people work in the company, which markets to and because you need to go into"},{"startTime":1339.98,"endTime":1348.9350000000002,"body":"a bit of Nancy Drew detective thing, it's like why are they paying most money here?"},{"startTime":1348.9550000000002,"endTime":1350.236,"body":"Then ideally, because it's"},{"startTime":1350.236,"endTime":1352.616,"body":"It's still a lot of human impact."},{"startTime":1352.616,"endTime":1357.9360000000001,"body":"You take couple if you can and you have a short talk and say, So why are you happy?"},{"startTime":1357.9360000000001,"endTime":1358.957,"body":"Why do you choose not us?"},{"startTime":1358.957,"endTime":1359.8480000000002,"body":"What are the benefits?"},{"startTime":1359.8480000000002,"endTime":1360.97,"body":"What are the best things about us?"},{"startTime":1360.97,"endTime":1361.7530000000002,"body":"What are the worst things?"},{"startTime":1361.7530000000002,"endTime":1363.2910000000002,"body":"What would you like to change?"},{"startTime":1363.452,"endTime":1364.9940000000001,"body":"And then based on that"},{"startTime":1364.9940000000001,"endTime":1366.595,"body":"you already have your first ICP."},{"startTime":1366.595,"endTime":1368.296,"body":"This is the you know the most valuable."},{"startTime":1368.296,"endTime":1373.8790000000001,"body":"Same way you can do with a smaller income to understand what what could you do to maybe"},{"startTime":1368.296,"endTime":1373.8790000000001,"body":"grow it?"},{"startTime":1373.8790000000001,"endTime":1376.1200000000001,"body":"But ideally, this is for sales and for marketing."},{"startTime":1376.1200000000001,"endTime":1379.843,"body":"Then you know how to which audience to approach because you already have your group."},{"startTime":1379.843,"endTime":1385.085,"body":"You can select your markets, you can select your companies, you can select even the"},{"startTime":1379.843,"endTime":1385.085,"body":"people, even think about the logic."},{"startTime":1385.085,"endTime":1389.0500000000002,"body":"The simple thing, and I have worked with again many tools and SaaS and stuff."},{"startTime":1389.0500000000002,"endTime":1391.131,"body":"Are you selling to a company CEO?"},{"startTime":1391.131,"endTime":1392.0710000000001,"body":"Are you selling to"},{"startTime":1392.0710000000001,"endTime":1393.611,"body":"Some kind of manager."},{"startTime":1393.813,"endTime":1395.2540000000001,"body":"It's a different process."},{"startTime":1395.2540000000001,"endTime":1396.865,"body":"Was it a face to face sale?"},{"startTime":1396.865,"endTime":1398.6970000000001,"body":"Was it how did the sale happen?"},{"startTime":1398.6970000000001,"endTime":1399.938,"body":"What's you know?"},{"startTime":1399.938,"endTime":1408.788,"body":"These are the touch points because the conversation, if you talk to search and sell or to"},{"startTime":1399.938,"endTime":1408.788,"body":"me as a marketing manager, are different conversations, and the sales message is different"},{"startTime":1408.788,"endTime":1409.809,"body":"and positioning is different."},{"startTime":1409.809,"endTime":1417.192,"body":"And so, understanding these things and the patterns of the groups, you can group your"},{"startTime":1409.809,"endTime":1417.192,"body":"marketing and again then measure."},{"startTime":1417.192,"endTime":1419.5430000000001,"body":"what you get out of it, you know, what's how much to invest where."},{"startTime":1419.5430000000001,"endTime":1423.6870000000001,"body":"Maybe it's worth to do a very good party for the whales, let's call them."},{"startTime":1423.6870000000001,"endTime":1427.4250000000002,"body":"you know, and then you will have a big re you know, r revenue from there."},{"startTime":1427.4250000000002,"endTime":1434.5500000000002,"body":"Or so first look at the data, identify the groups, identify the patterns, and then dig"},{"startTime":1427.4250000000002,"endTime":1434.5500000000002,"body":"deep into the whole client touch point."},{"startTime":1434.5500000000002,"endTime":1435.421,"body":"How did it happen?"},{"startTime":1435.421,"endTime":1440.333,"body":"How they came, who you're talking to, what's the communication, talk to them if you can"},{"startTime":1435.421,"endTime":1440.333,"body":"because a lot of data is there."},{"startTime":1440.333,"endTime":1444.315,"body":"And sometimes you think they're buying us because of X, and it's not true."},{"startTime":1444.315,"endTime":1444.595,"body":"True."},{"startTime":1444.595,"endTime":1447.6770000000001,"body":"They're probably buying you because of totally different reason that you solve."},{"startTime":1447.6770000000001,"endTime":1449.207,"body":"And what's the pain point that you're solving?"},{"startTime":1449.207,"endTime":1452.51,"body":"Because at the moment for any SaaS, especially in business, you have to solve something."},{"startTime":1452.51,"endTime":1455.871,"body":"otherwise you're just an extra tool that it's expensive and nobody needs."},{"startTime":1455.871,"endTime":1464.468,"body":"One of the one of the I guess difficulty sometimes with SaaS is that you are selling to"},{"startTime":1455.871,"endTime":1464.468,"body":"one person, but the user group is a whole different group of people."},{"startTime":1464.468,"endTime":1471.952,"body":"And then obviously if you're looking at usage data, the the two hopefully are split out,"},{"startTime":1464.468,"endTime":1471.952,"body":"but like you're gonna have a lot more usage data typically than you are gonna have like"},{"startTime":1471.952,"endTime":1473.0130000000001,"body":"buyer data."},{"startTime":1473.0130000000001,"endTime":1479.545,"body":"Have you had an exper like have you had a similar experience and kind of what were your"},{"startTime":1473.0130000000001,"endTime":1479.545,"body":"takeaways from both of those data sets?"},{"startTime":1479.613,"endTime":1482.1680000000001,"body":"Well, we don't because we you know, not a group thing."},{"startTime":1482.1680000000001,"endTime":1485.0720000000001,"body":"So at the moment it's like the direct to consumer."},{"startTime":1485.073,"endTime":1489.3890000000001,"body":"But I think I think overall, well, if you're selling to one person it's the first one to"},{"startTime":1485.073,"endTime":1489.3890000000001,"body":"comment, right?"},{"startTime":1489.3890000000001,"endTime":1491.788,"body":"But the retention is made on the on the group."},{"startTime":1491.788,"endTime":1502.866,"body":"So I would say again start with like what's the main issue and what you know, 'cause when"},{"startTime":1491.788,"endTime":1502.866,"body":"I do or train or help people to do sales, I go into like, okay, you're talking to us,"},{"startTime":1502.866,"endTime":1504.587,"body":"okay, who else are you talking to?"},{"startTime":1504.587,"endTime":1507.199,"body":"And people always say 'cause they think you're gonna get a discount."},{"startTime":1507.199,"endTime":1507.52,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1507.52,"endTime":1508.29,"body":"It's like, no."},{"startTime":1508.29,"endTime":1510.3110000000001,"body":"And it's like and what are the features?"},{"startTime":1510.3110000000001,"endTime":1511.8020000000001,"body":"Why would you like them and not us?"},{"startTime":1511.8020000000001,"endTime":1512.583,"body":"What's missing?"},{"startTime":1512.583,"endTime":1514.317,"body":"What's you know 'cause"},{"startTime":1514.317,"endTime":1521.201,"body":"The the sale made again is the person, it can be bur like personal relationship, it can be"},{"startTime":1514.317,"endTime":1521.201,"body":"some whatever points you tickle and that works for them."},{"startTime":1521.201,"endTime":1522.492,"body":"But the retention is in the group."},{"startTime":1522.492,"endTime":1525.4450000000002,"body":"So I think it's very important to get feedback from the group."},{"startTime":1525.4450000000002,"endTime":1527.806,"body":"maybe that could be a system, you know."},{"startTime":1528.207,"endTime":1529.588,"body":"You get these, but they're very annoying."},{"startTime":1529.588,"endTime":1531.259,"body":"The email like, How do you like us, rate us?"},{"startTime":1531.259,"endTime":1531.809,"body":"Blah blah blah."},{"startTime":1531.809,"endTime":1539.075,"body":"But um but even Google now does these things whereas a team traveling around Europe"},{"startTime":1531.809,"endTime":1539.075,"body":"talking to the teams like"},{"startTime":1539.116,"endTime":1541.827,"body":"To extend the team, like what's working, what's not, what would you differently?"},{"startTime":1541.827,"endTime":1545.66,"body":"So you have to also talk to the team and get feedback as much as you can directly."},{"startTime":1545.66,"endTime":1552.372,"body":"Because when the group is happy and something's working, then the salesperson would be"},{"startTime":1545.66,"endTime":1552.372,"body":"like, I brought a good thing, everyone's happy, let's continue."},{"startTime":1552.372,"endTime":1554.923,"body":"So and also it's all in the end, it's all about the value."},{"startTime":1554.923,"endTime":1558.506,"body":"Because you know, in business, yes, there's some tools that you forget to unsubscribe."},{"startTime":1558.506,"endTime":1563.6390000000001,"body":"But mostly you you know, every single month I get the invoice for million tools we use."},{"startTime":1563.6390000000001,"endTime":1565.749,"body":"I go like, mm, did we really?"},{"startTime":1566.3020000000001,"endTime":1566.865,"body":"you"},{"startTime":1566.865,"endTime":1570.67,"body":"is the team using and actually there's tools that I use, but my team is not."},{"startTime":1570.67,"endTime":1572.4730000000002,"body":"And because it's a team subscription I cut them."},{"startTime":1572.4730000000002,"endTime":1574.596,"body":"I'm like, okay, so my team sees no value."},{"startTime":1574.596,"endTime":1575.596,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1576.4250000000002,"endTime":1578.698,"body":"I don't know if that answers the question, but"},{"startTime":1578.698,"endTime":1579.688,"body":"No, no, definitely."},{"startTime":1579.688,"endTime":1587.604,"body":"I think it's one of those things as well where I'd say that is where your usage data is so"},{"startTime":1579.688,"endTime":1587.604,"body":"critical as well in like forming the relationship with like in our case, maybe it's an"},{"startTime":1587.604,"endTime":1590.6270000000002,"body":"admin, someone who's an admin versus a user."},{"startTime":1590.6270000000002,"endTime":1600.2540000000001,"body":"If you don't have that usage information, you can't feed that back to the admin because"},{"startTime":1590.6270000000002,"endTime":1600.2540000000001,"body":"sometimes the admin in some weird cases hates the platform, but the users love it."},{"startTime":1600.2540000000001,"endTime":1601.2740000000001,"body":"That happens."},{"startTime":1601.2740000000001,"endTime":1604.153,"body":"And then they want to keep it, but you want to get rid."},{"startTime":1604.153,"endTime":1605.9740000000002,"body":"Like it could be the same for you, Ada."},{"startTime":1605.9740000000002,"endTime":1609.3960000000002,"body":"Like you could have your whole team using something but you hate it."},{"startTime":1609.3960000000002,"endTime":1613.319,"body":"But if they're all using it and you could see that, you would keep it."},{"startTime":1613.319,"endTime":1614.1390000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1614.1390000000001,"endTime":1615.4270000000001,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1615.4270000000001,"endTime":1626.276,"body":"like when you're thinking of retention and actually s scoring what a successful client is"},{"startTime":1615.4270000000001,"endTime":1626.276,"body":"in a successful ICP, the probably the speed of uptake and the feature usage from the users"},{"startTime":1626.276,"endTime":1633.24,"body":"is gonna be a really good indication of whether that client is the right client, even if"},{"startTime":1626.276,"endTime":1633.24,"body":"like the admin seems a bit weird for you or the company seems a little weird."},{"startTime":1633.24,"endTime":1638.7230000000002,"body":"Maybe there's something within that to like, you know, health score or whatever, whatever"},{"startTime":1633.24,"endTime":1638.7230000000002,"body":"CS wanna do with that."},{"startTime":1638.8310000000001,"endTime":1646.258,"body":"Hundred percent and also again, me and my money is but to attract a new customer it's much"},{"startTime":1638.8310000000001,"endTime":1646.258,"body":"more expensive than to keep an old one."},{"startTime":1646.258,"endTime":1650.68,"body":"If you track user data, you see red flags, the team involvement's dropping."},{"startTime":1650.68,"endTime":1654.202,"body":"Out of fifteen active users that have accounts, ten are you are using."},{"startTime":1654.202,"endTime":1656.413,"body":"You can go back and say, Hey, what's not working?"},{"startTime":1656.413,"endTime":1660.286,"body":"It's again, it's we are nowadays not inventing bicycles."},{"startTime":1660.286,"endTime":1662.8410000000001,"body":"We have very little differentiation in every tool we have."},{"startTime":1662.8410000000001,"endTime":1667.439,"body":"It's like we're all pretty much selling the same with a with a different package and you"},{"startTime":1662.8410000000001,"endTime":1667.439,"body":"one at"},{"startTime":1667.439,"endTime":1668.19,"body":"For something."},{"startTime":1668.19,"endTime":1670.0810000000001,"body":"So we're fighting for very little attention."},{"startTime":1670.0810000000001,"endTime":1677.064,"body":"So customer service, identifying problems before the best service is always when they"},{"startTime":1670.0810000000001,"endTime":1677.064,"body":"solve their problem before you go and complain about it."},{"startTime":1677.064,"endTime":1679.335,"body":"So data usage is another thing."},{"startTime":1679.816,"endTime":1680.986,"body":"You can do it for a smaller group."},{"startTime":1680.986,"endTime":1687.46,"body":"Again, identify your ICP, track those mainly, and you see some kind of you know red flags,"},{"startTime":1680.986,"endTime":1687.46,"body":"you go and be like, Hi, what's up?"},{"startTime":1687.46,"endTime":1688.01,"body":"What's happening?"},{"startTime":1688.01,"endTime":1688.621,"body":"Can we help?"},{"startTime":1688.621,"endTime":1691.0020000000002,"body":"And you're gonna keep the client, I promise."},{"startTime":1691.2230000000002,"endTime":1692.844,"body":"And it's gonna be much cheaper than to get anyone."},{"startTime":1692.844,"endTime":1693.2150000000001,"body":"So"},{"startTime":1693.2150000000001,"endTime":1694.056,"body":"Agree more."},{"startTime":1694.056,"endTime":1694.577,"body":"amen."},{"startTime":1694.577,"endTime":1700.066,"body":"So Ada, before we let you go, we love to talk about marketing gossip."},{"startTime":1700.066,"endTime":1705.434,"body":"So if you've got anything you want to share with us that you either hate or love that's"},{"startTime":1700.066,"endTime":1705.434,"body":"happening in marketing right now."},{"startTime":1705.6760000000002,"endTime":1706.517,"body":"you know what I hate?"},{"startTime":1706.517,"endTime":1707.557,"body":"I hate."},{"startTime":1707.557,"endTime":1708.6390000000001,"body":"So I love AI."},{"startTime":1708.6390000000001,"endTime":1711.501,"body":"But I'm I'm a big AI tourist."},{"startTime":1711.501,"endTime":1718.797,"body":"I to like use all the tools and but what I hate is all the 97 million experts now who are"},{"startTime":1711.501,"endTime":1718.797,"body":"telling you how to optimize for AI."},{"startTime":1718.797,"endTime":1731.799,"body":"Joe, just make a website www.yourbrandnameplusreviews.com and you're gonna it's like guys"},{"startTime":1718.797,"endTime":1731.799,"body":"for a thousand years I'm older than Google, like we never knew fully how Google operated."},{"startTime":1731.799,"endTime":1735.863,"body":"Like I started my career in search engine optimization and it's always a shadow thing."},{"startTime":1735.863,"endTime":1741.015,"body":"You kinda know the main things you have to do, but there's always something you don't"},{"startTime":1735.863,"endTime":1741.015,"body":"know, because if we would all know, it wouldn't work."},{"startTime":1741.015,"endTime":1742.131,"body":"all do it, yeah."},{"startTime":1742.131,"endTime":1742.901,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1742.901,"endTime":1751.284,"body":"So what makes you think that optimizing for, you know, LLMs and AI is gonna be ten times"},{"startTime":1742.901,"endTime":1751.284,"body":"more easy where you just put a little website?"},{"startTime":1751.284,"endTime":1759.738,"body":"Yes, some things are very kind of basic and logic that you need a lot of PR articles, you"},{"startTime":1751.284,"endTime":1759.738,"body":"need like high scoring websites, so but those, you know, experts that are like, just do"},{"startTime":1759.738,"endTime":1761.8300000000002,"body":"this, just buy this, it's like no."},{"startTime":1761.8300000000002,"endTime":1763.202,"body":"And I I hate that people"},{"startTime":1763.202,"endTime":1765.818,"body":"Buy it and they they come to me and it's the same thing."},{"startTime":1765.818,"endTime":1767.452,"body":"It's like, we're just gonna do this website."},{"startTime":1767.452,"endTime":1770.708,"body":"Like my brand is the best, and the AI is gonna think that."},{"startTime":1771.391,"endTime":1771.8680000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1771.8680000000002,"endTime":1780.582,"body":"you know, we're dealing with like billion dollar AI models, like they probably are a"},{"startTime":1771.8680000000002,"endTime":1780.582,"body":"little a little more advanced than that, just saying."},{"startTime":1780.7430000000002,"endTime":1781.154,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1781.154,"endTime":1781.304,"body":"no."},{"startTime":1781.304,"endTime":1782.556,"body":"Ruta Ruta is wrong."},{"startTime":1782.556,"endTime":1788.8770000000002,"body":"Va va Ruta is the best marketing in a person in the world dot com and that's it."},{"startTime":1788.8770000000002,"endTime":1790.3480000000002,"body":"And it's how it's gonna work."},{"startTime":1791.13,"endTime":1792.4740000000002,"body":"So that's my hate."},{"startTime":1792.4740000000002,"endTime":1792.9560000000001,"body":"Love it."},{"startTime":1792.9560000000001,"endTime":1794.076,"body":"yeah, couldn't agree more."},{"startTime":1794.076,"endTime":1801.732,"body":"Also, you know, it is whenever there's a new thing, there's always, you know, the market"},{"startTime":1794.076,"endTime":1801.732,"body":"of people selling the expertise and the new thing that no one has expertise in."},{"startTime":1801.732,"endTime":1810.929,"body":"So yeah, I think this has happened for like everything in marketing, inbound, personal"},{"startTime":1801.732,"endTime":1810.929,"body":"branding, whatever the whatever the take is in that moment."},{"startTime":1810.929,"endTime":1811.44,"body":"now?"},{"startTime":1811.44,"endTime":1812.432,"body":"What do they call it?"},{"startTime":1812.432,"endTime":1813.617,"body":"All bound?"},{"startTime":1813.617,"endTime":1815.266,"body":"All b fuck knows."},{"startTime":1815.45,"endTime":1815.959,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1815.959,"endTime":1827.0330000000001,"body":"And if we're talking about B2B, and that's my wishes to all the people selling, turn off"},{"startTime":1815.959,"endTime":1827.0330000000001,"body":"the down damn automatization automatizations and automations for sales Jesus Christ."},{"startTime":1827.0330000000001,"endTime":1832.189,"body":"That ten emails when you don't answer and they just go, it's a rainy day, but let's stop"},{"startTime":1827.0330000000001,"endTime":1832.189,"body":"it's like"},{"startTime":1832.189,"endTime":1832.95,"body":"We we know."},{"startTime":1832.95,"endTime":1835.103,"body":"We know LinkedIn, you're just out we know."},{"startTime":1835.103,"endTime":1844.226,"body":"And yeah, so that's another thing, is like I understand it's hard to sell and I but let's"},{"startTime":1835.103,"endTime":1844.226,"body":"not target every three days on count, you know, 'cause if I didn't answer first fifteen"},{"startTime":1844.226,"endTime":1846.67,"body":"messages, it's not gonna it's not gonna change."},{"startTime":1846.67,"endTime":1847.982,"body":"m"},{"startTime":1847.982,"endTime":1851.942,"body":"just that thing, isn't it, as well, of clearly not understanding your ICP."},{"startTime":1851.942,"endTime":1854.8020000000001,"body":"Therein lies the, uh..."},{"startTime":1854.8020000000001,"endTime":1855.825,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1855.825,"endTime":1860.961,"body":"pitches of like, why did you think to message me about this?"},{"startTime":1861.082,"endTime":1870.602,"body":"Or like or it'd be like I one of my first jobs after uni was in Domains and I still get"},{"startTime":1861.082,"endTime":1870.602,"body":"pitches about domains till this day and I'm like, Babe, I haven't worked in Domains for"},{"startTime":1870.602,"endTime":1874.2060000000001,"body":"like fifth ten years, like I just I this isn't for me."},{"startTime":1874.588,"endTime":1875.1090000000002,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1875.1090000000002,"endTime":1875.97,"body":"So that's another thing."},{"startTime":1875.97,"endTime":1885.132,"body":"Automation is great, but as with AI with everything, you need a human touch and"},{"startTime":1875.97,"endTime":1885.132,"body":"understanding 'cause if you got 'cause then again you become one of the mass ten, fifteen"},{"startTime":1885.132,"endTime":1890.8680000000002,"body":"people every day spamming about something and you're like, I'm not even gonna look at you"},{"startTime":1885.132,"endTime":1890.8680000000002,"body":"'cause you see what's happening so"},{"startTime":1890.875,"endTime":1896.564,"body":"I mean, we could do a whole other episode, couldn't we, about how that entire sales model"},{"startTime":1890.875,"endTime":1896.564,"body":"is broken?"},{"startTime":1897.049,"endTime":1902.053,"body":"And that's why I'm always talking about know your client to understand what are we gonna"},{"startTime":1897.049,"endTime":1902.053,"body":"solve."},{"startTime":1902.194,"endTime":1903.2250000000001,"body":"And you're gonna that's it."},{"startTime":1903.2250000000001,"endTime":1907.489,"body":"You tell me like I see this and this expensive, I can do it faster and cheaper for you."},{"startTime":1907.489,"endTime":1908.5,"body":"Shit, take my money."},{"startTime":1908.5,"endTime":1909.74,"body":"Take my money."},{"startTime":1911.463,"endTime":1913.635,"body":"I don't have much, but they have all my money."},{"startTime":1913.635,"endTime":1914.7160000000001,"body":"Take it!"},{"startTime":1914.939,"endTime":1916.361,"body":"Take what's left."},{"startTime":1916.861,"endTime":1917.226,"body":"it."},{"startTime":1917.226,"endTime":1919.588,"body":"Well, thank you so much, Ada, for joining us."},{"startTime":1919.588,"endTime":1920.8790000000001,"body":"it's been a really good conversation."},{"startTime":1920.8790000000001,"endTime":1924.8310000000001,"body":"and I think it's great to have your like a D to C perspective on ICP."},{"startTime":1924.8310000000001,"endTime":1928.094,"body":"Wow, that's a lot of th that's a lot of acronyms."},{"startTime":1928.094,"endTime":1931.875,"body":"but I think yeah, it it makes it more tangible and more actionable."},{"startTime":1931.875,"endTime":1937.1370000000002,"body":"And I think we can all take that away and make ours more actionable, which I think is"},{"startTime":1931.875,"endTime":1937.1370000000002,"body":"probably the thing that's missing."},{"startTime":1937.1370000000002,"endTime":1938.819,"body":"in B2B at least for me."},{"startTime":1938.819,"endTime":1940.2910000000002,"body":"So yeah, thank you so much."},{"startTime":1940.2910000000002,"endTime":1941.5430000000001,"body":"you've been an inspiration."},{"startTime":1941.5430000000001,"endTime":1944.625,"body":"and we hope to see you on a live stream once this comes out."},{"startTime":1944.625,"endTime":1948.078,"body":"So if you've watched this episode, Ada will be on a live stream at some point."},{"startTime":1948.078,"endTime":1952.451,"body":"So come join and you can quiz her all about gaming and ICP and all of those good things."}]}