Earned Media vs Paid Hype: Ronica Cleary on PR That Builds Real Trust

If you have ever wondered whether public relations is still worth it in a world full of ads, social media, and AI-generated content, this episode will help clear that up.

In this episode of Small Business Pivots, Michael D. Morrison talks with Ronica Cleary, founder and CEO of Cleary Strategies, about what PR actually is, why earned media still carries so much weight, and how business owners can think more strategically about visibility. Cleary Strategies describes itself as a full-service PR agency that helps clients secure media opportunities, preserve their image, and build the skills needed to thrive in today’s media climate. 

Ronica explains the critical difference between earned media and paid placements. Paid media has value, but earned coverage — television, radio, digital, print, and podcasts secured because a story is genuinely newsworthy — tends to carry more credibility because audiences know it was not bought. Cleary Strategies’ own materials emphasize earned media, publicity planning, and strategic media exposure as a core part of its work. 

Michael and Ronica dig into:

•  what public relations really means for a small business 
•  why earned media builds trust in a way advertising cannot fully replicate 
•  how to spot “pay-to-play” publicity dressed up as real press 
•  what a good PR agency should actually be doing behind the scenes 
•  how Ronica’s journalism background shaped her agency’s process 
•  why niche focus and repeatable systems made Cleary Strategies stronger 
•  how media training should make you more authentic, not more robotic 

Ronica also shares how her background in communications, systems engineering, and television journalism shaped the way she built Cleary Strategies. Her firm highlights media placements, crisis communications, and media training, and Ronica’s own founder page highlights agency press, contributed pieces, and award recognition including PRNEWS’ Top Women Awards “Rising Star” mention and Inc. Power Partner recognition. 

If you are a small business owner trying to build trust, authority, and long-term visibility — not just get attention for a week — this conversation will help you think differently about PR.

What you’ll learn

•  What public relations actually means for a business owner 
•  Why earned media and paid media are not the same thing 
•  How PR supports credibility, trust, and long-term brand authority 
•  What to ask before hiring a PR agency 
•  Why “featured for a fee” is not the same as real earned press 
•  How to think about media strategy in a more systematic way 
•  Why a focused niche often strengthens a business 
•  How authenticity matters more than on-camera perfection in media training

Transcript

Welcome And Veronica Cleary’s Path

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right. Welcome to another Small Business Pivots where we have very special guests from around the world, entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs that can help us all grow and scale our businesses with insights and pivots they've made along the way. And today, if you've never listened to the show, I always like to ask our business owners to introduce themselves and their name and just a little bit about them so we get to know you a little bit better. So I will turn it over to you to do that.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Thank you so much, Michael. I'm happy to be here. My name is Veronica Cleary. I'm the founder and CEO of Cleary Strategies. We're a full service public relations agency. We support our clients to get earned media coverage across television, radio, digital, print, and podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Wow, that's a mouthful.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

It is. Sometimes I'm like, should I take radio out? People don't like care about radio as much, but we still do it. So I keep it in there.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Well, you know, those of us of age, like myself, not you, but back in the day, that's all we had was radio, TV, telephone books, billboards, right? We didn't have all this fun digital stuff. So what was your childhood like growing up? Just because I know a lot of our listeners go, I can relate to that person because it's usually a story.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

I love that. Well, I did once deliver phone books with my dad. Oh like in the neighborhood. So I may be a little younger, but like I'm I still get it. Um yeah, so that's so funny. So what a thoughtful question. So I grew up kind of thinking I would always want to work in communications or television or something like that, but the industry is really intimidating. The industry often requires you to move, the industry often requires you to work in really small media markets, and I'm kind of like a homebody, and that really freaked me out. So I ended up not actually studying television or journalism at first. I have an undergraduate degree in systems engineering, which I actually take full circle and feel like I use every day, but I sort of went the safe route. And uh because I just thought, well, I know I'll get a job doing that. But I think that life has a funny way of steering you towards your destiny no matter what you do to get in the way of it. So I did end up getting a master's degree in communications where I did study television. Again, I said, I'm not ready for this. I don't want to do it. I steered away from it again. I worked in higher education, I did major gifts fundraising. And then lo and behold, I met somebody who invited me to be a part of this TV program that we launched. And my career in television was kind of destined. I really feel that way when I look back on all the times I tried to avoid it and the fact that it still ended up happening. Uh, so that's not exactly like the story of my childhood, but I do think it sort of speaks to the fact that I trust, like, I trust signs and things that come my way. And when an opportunity makes sense, I do try to take it. Um, and so I've been really lucky to have those opportunities. And then I did work in television journalism for quite a few years. I had a storybook career in TV and TV news. I worked most recently as a White House correspondent. Uh, but in the back of my mind, I did always have entrepreneurial dreams and goals. And so when I had my second child, I left television and I started the business that I have today, which is a public relations agency. So I answered with a lot and I'll like pause for a minute before I just start talking for the whole 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

No, they're here to hear you, not me.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Well, let's, you know, it's kind of in interesting how the the full circle works because I went to college and was under the graphic design department.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Okay.

What Earned Media Actually Is

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I was a horrible designer, but then I ended up owning a marketing company, which we had graphic designers on staff. So my professor came because we offered internships to that college, and he came to me and he said, Aren't you glad you took graphic design, even though you weren't any good at it? Because you wouldn't know what to look for, owning a company that has graphic designers. And I was like, Oh my gosh, how everything just kind of comes full circle, keeps so we're all on a path together. So, yes, let's explain public relations first, because I think there's a lot of misunderstandings about it. And before I kind of give my two cents, I just want you to share your thoughts and your insights from your angle.

Spotting Pay To Play Publicity

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Oh, I love that. And I will take it full circle. I'll tell you how we use engineering, but that'll come a little later. So, you know, public relations, what we do with our clients in public relations, we help them navigate their relationship with the public through media. Okay. So it's like a let's just like take it apart, public relations. So what is your relationship with the public? And then for us, it's through earned media placements. Okay, so we are navigating our clients' relationships, whether they're business owners, whether they're thought leaders, whether they're authors, whatever it might be, and how they are perceived by the general public through media placements. And like I said in the beginning, which are television, radio, digital, print, and podcast. The distinction is in that little word earned, right? And that's kind of a throwaway word that people sort of hear it feels a little jargony, but it's not. The idea is we don't pay for anything. Okay, so we pay for no advertising, we pay for no like boosted social posts, no LinkedIn ads, none of that. Everything we do, our clients are earning for what makes them newsworthy or interesting. So what are they paying us for? Well, we're helping them figure out what makes them newsworthy and interesting enough to earn coverage. And then we know how to put them in front of the decision makers who are inside newsrooms to even know that they exist. Because it's very rare that it's like that lightning in a bottle moment when you have the perfect business that has that perfect event that gets only positive press ongoing for the next 10 years. It doesn't really happen. You'd be hard pressed to find many examples of it. Usually, even at major, major corporations, it is sort of spearheaded and directed in some way by people who really understand the media. And so the reason why people want the earned media versus the paid media is you could make an argument that when the public sees a news placement or news coverage, which is earned, they know you don't pay to be on the news versus like paying for the commercial segment in between the news segments. The public perceives each of those things differently. Okay, so there's still value in advertising. No PR professional would say don't pay for advertising. It's just viewed by the public very differently. The value is viewed differently, and sort of the prestige of it is different because we know that when you're on the news, you can't control what's being said or talked about. So if it's positive, it's viewed with a higher sense of it's it's it's more impressive than if you have a commercial where everything you say is positive. Everybody knows that that's the whole point of it. So that's the real distinction and what we help our clients do every day. And and a lot of people, I think, sometimes confuse the earned and the paid or the social and and kind of lump all those things together. But real traditional PR is exactly what I'm describing with those earned media placements on behalf of our clients for being newsworthy.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Can you explain the the benefit that a business owner would get from hiring a company like yours? In other words, I know you're talking about earned versus paid, but what is the value that they would see? Because it's not sales, it's kind of a promotion. So how could they see the value? Because a lot of our business owners are small business, and I would guess maybe half of them have never even heard public relations because all we hear is digital and content and social media and SEO and this, that, and other. Public relations is is kind of on the side. Well, it shouldn't be on the side. I know I know I agree.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Um that's fair, and that's so fair because it's very hard to draw a straight line between like a per public relations placement and like a thousand sales or you know, whatever if you sell small units, whatever, you know what I'm saying? Um the idea is that we build trust and credibility for our clients because you can't pay for trust and you can't pay for credibility. There is something very different about the perception of an earned media placement than there is for a paid ad. So if your goal is to be an established, trustworthy brand leader, expert, author, doctor, lawyer, financial services provider, whatever it may be, and you want to have an ongoing relationship in your community, whether it's in your local market in Oklahoma City or national, you are going to, it's going to be much harder to establish that trust and credibility if all you're doing is paying for ads, because every consumer knows the difference. So the investment has to be something our best clients understand that it's a long-term investment over time to build trust and credibility with your current customers, your past customers, your potential customers that you simply cannot get from paid ads and like SEO backlink strategies. It's just very different. Um, I think that answers the question.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Um it does. And it also aligns with what I say often, and that is people buy from those they know, like, and trust. 100%. So this is a better way of earning that trust versus a paid. So speaking of paid, I know a lot of business owners I talk to, because we do business coaching. They mention, hey, is this art or is this email legit? And it says something to the effect of you've been selected to be one of the top 100 blah blah blah in your region. We'd like to publish and promote. And this is that public relations? Is that the difference?

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Can you attend for the low price of 399?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

At least 3,000.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

At least.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Yeah, it's not really. I mean, those are paid placements. The problem is that sometimes, you know, those outlets might, I mean, the problem for us, right? They they sometimes do a nice job of making it look like it's an earned media placement, but usually there is some sort of, you know, ethically, there should be some sort of indicator or mark on the piece that it's a paid, paid placement, right? So it's just another way to get an advertisement. Our clients will sometimes get them for T from TV production companies, and the price tag will be like 75 grand. I mean, they're they're no jokes. So it's all about, I guess, you know, do you want us, do you want a solution that's quick and dirty, or do you want something that has like longevity and legs to it? And so the quick and dirty answer would be, okay, pay for your feature. But if you have one feature that you paid for and nothing else ever again, again, that does that really add to the like, know, and trust? Because while potential clients aren't necessarily looking for you to have a feature in the New York Times every week, right? That's like people are reasonable, they understand. They do in some way think, oh, if this person is earning news attention, it should happen more than once, right? And so the idea of a publicist, they're going to help you navigate the news cycle on behalf of like your area of expertise, your business, your brand, your product, whatever it might be, so that you're consistently and regularly earning that that coverage that does have that like know and trust in it because it's earned over time. So that's the difference. So usually if something feels a little too good to be true, it is. And if any news outlet is contacting you, so-called news outlet is contacting you and asking for pay, it's not earned coverage. It's it's just not an earned placement. So I think those are some people, that's all they don't care. They just say, I just want the quick and dirty. I just want to say I have a feature and be done with it. I don't recommend it, but that's that's the reason that they would do it. It's not that it's gonna be bad. You're probably gonna read the article and copy edit it and make it say exactly what you want. But again, that's why there's no trust in the finished product because you basically wrote it, right? Where if you can get an awesome feature that someone else wrote about you, man, does that have a higher integrity to it and to a potential client? It really speaks much more highly of who you are and what you offer offer as a business owner.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Absolutely. So I know in the podcast world, we're getting a lot more solicitations about well, we've got this podcast, we've been looking for the best coaches in the region, and we'd like to have you on there 30 minutes, blah, blah, blah. And so it's kind of everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

And they ask you to pay for it, right?

Building A Repeatable PR System

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Yes, yes, of course. Absolutely. Uh, so can you walk us down kind of a journey? Maybe take a client you've had and change their name, obviously, but kind of like what that would look like for a small business owner so they can get a sense of, oh, okay. So you research, then you do this, then you can, and so it's like a campaign. So kind of they can grasp the bigger picture.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah, I love it. We're gonna get back into systems engineering. This is so exciting. Um, so teed you up for that.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Thank you. You didn't even know. So uh there is a whole system. I don't wouldn't need, I mean, we have case studies and our clients we promote, and we're so excited about their success. So it's not necessarily about protecting them or keeping them secret, but um, I will say that we have a system and a process in place now that we do with each of our clients. It allows us to be more successful, more efficient. You know, I'm sure your your listeners also appreciate, like from a small business owner to a small business owner, like running a business that that's not consuming your whole life, right? So that's that's also part of the reason that we do it selfishly, because we can just we can make our clients successful in this really beautiful way that that's a little bit formulaic, but it works. So we do a period of discovery with all of our clients, and that's up to 30 days, but many times it doesn't need to be. What we do during that time is what we want to do is we want to sit down with our clients and we want to uncover and articulate pillars or themes that they can speak about and be pitched on. Okay. So if I take you, Michael, and I say, okay, you're an expert in small business and that's all we think about, well, that's really limiting. Okay. But if I sit down with you during this period of discovery and I learned, oh, you once sold a business, so you know about being acquired. We know that you are this expert. Oh, you're a podcaster. Oh, you have familiarity with like you have a cool childhood story, right? We we would be uncovering five or six pillars that we could then then we use those as the foundation for our account if we were to work together. And then during that period of discovery, what we're also gonna do, we're gonna articulate those themes. We're gonna build potential questions for each of those themes that you can answer. And we're also gonna build lists that are specific and designed just to fit in with those themes so that we're also thinking, who are the reporters, who are the other podcasters, who are the what's the TV programming that talks about these things? And we're gonna build specific and individual lists for each of those themes for our clients. And that's what we do during that period of discovery so that we are all aligned. Because what we used to happen is we would just kind of like take a client because we say, Okay, we can pitch this person. They're interesting, they're newsworthy, and we just dive in and then we'd say, Oh, well, maybe that's not working three, four weeks later. Oh, let's try this. Let's try it. It was very chaotic. And then sometimes we'd say, Oh, we thought you'd like this idea. And the person's like, I don't want to talk about that. Like I mentioned my childhood to you, but that's really private to me, right? Whatever it is. So it allows us to all be aligned and very streamlined. Here's the second part of it. So that's like outbound pitching, right? Every day we're we're we're building this plan and this strategy. Well, also from those themes and that period of discovery, we also understand what you're an expert on. Okay. So what we're also doing is we're watching and reading the news every single day on behalf of our clients and thinking, oh, there's this really cool headline in the news. Michael could comment on this. And then that's when we're ready, because we've done that period of discovery, to sort of respond very quickly, right? And we say, Oh, we want to pitch you today. Are you in the office? Because we think you could be on the five o'clock news talking about this big news event, whatever it might be. Now, that might not be a fit for your expertise, but imagine for doctors, for lawyers, for you know, think about what's going on at the airlines right now, the people that have expertise and experience in those things, we respond to the headlines on their behalf so that we can also make them like really timely commentators on what's going on in the news. And that combination of looking at what you bring to the table and then also combining it with what's happening in the news cycle, it allows us to keep our clients very busy and have a really cool variety and sort of interesting, like different types of placements and earn media wins so that they can look back on the engagement and say, wow, what a cool dynamic campaign, versus I came in and pitched one thing because you're a business expert, right? So that's how we keep our clients going. And that's the strategy that we approach every client engagement with.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Without mentioning cost or the amount or anything like that, is it an ongoing fee? Is it per project? Is it a monthly retainer? How does that work for So our engagements are retainer based?

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Most public relations agencies are retainer-based. We do values-based pricing. It's rare to find a PR agency that's charging you by the hour unless they're brand spanking new solopreneurs. Because what happens is you really get penalized for any sort of relationships or any sort of contacts or sort of things you've established over time because you say, Well, that took me, you know, I knew you would be a great fit for this. And that was a 15-minute call, but that relationship took the last five years to get there. So you'll find, I think, in most agencies sort of that are established and been around for a while, it's going to be a values-based pricing. And sort of the premium they put on that would be based on the size, or if they're a New York City, you know, office building, they're going to cost a lot more than a virtual agency. Um, so yeah, it's I I think that's what you're gonna find most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

How long does it usually take after the discovery to get those first articles, those first interviews kind of teed up for the business owner? Is it right away, or do you have to kind of build a sense of trust with your news channels and outlets and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

We're pretty quick. I mean, we have we we are um a results-driven agency. Our clients, I'd be hard pressed to think back on uh any clients that don't get placements every month, if if not every month, every other month. I mean, sometimes the news cycle is just not your friend and it doesn't happen. But see, that period of discovery and the multi-channeled approach is what allows us to be more successful over time and to have more regular appearances. Because when I started the business, as I mentioned, I come from news, my whole strategy was connecting the clients to the news cycle. Okay. So if the news cycle was really not aligned with the client, the month was dead, right? Because you and even if you're not into new, like I'm into the news, right? This is like my life. If you're not into the news, you know when something is just taking over the conversation, right? And if you don't sort of add to that in any way, I mean, think about the COVID years, right? If you didn't have some way to talk about now, the COVID years are so long that like we got everybody talking about like, I mean, it was like we could we could do anything. But the idea is you can appreciate how that just like it's the the whole news cycle. So when we decided to add this really thoughtful, deliberate period of discovery, what that did was it allowed us to find and tap into more thoughtfully trade publications and podcasts, because the podcasts aren't as closely tied to the news cycle. It uh it just allowed us to have a more consistent regular series of placements for our clients. Most clients are placed within the end of the, by the end of the first month, there's something booked for the second month. It would be very rare if by the third month nothing was booked. That would be crazy. I can't charge what I charge. You know, PR, we cannot give our clients guarantees. And that's what can make sometimes small business owners a little nervous. And I can give your listeners some advice if they're thinking about the investment, because I do think it is a worthwhile investment. I'm on this podcast because I'm doing PR for myself, right? Because I see the investment as valuable and it's time I put myself on my own client roster, right? So I think it's really a great thing to do, but it can be intimidating because of the fact that we're not paying for ads, because we're not controlling the social media timeline that you're distributing. There are no guarantees, right? We need to convince a third-party decision maker in a newsroom every single time our client is booked to say yes, literally. And our clients are booked all the time, right? So you say, Well, how can I make this investment if there's no guarantees? Well, what you should do when you're considering an agency, whether it's us or anybody, you have to ask for case studies, you have to ask for samples of their work, and you should definitely ask for more than one and look at the dates, right? Because you could also have one really successful campaign that you like lean on as like the campaign you use as your example, because you can get kind of lucky, right? Um, and so those are ways that you could feel a little bit better about the investment and say, okay, I'm working with an agency that knows what they're doing and knows how to navigate the news cycle on behalf of their roster of clients so that they are not waiting 90 days for one placement after making this big investment. And so hopefully that is like a helpful piece of advice. It seems obvious, but people don't always ask.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, yeah. No, uh I I learned a long Time ago, there's no stupid questions. So I just ask whatever comes to mind.

Media Confidence And The Niche Pivot

SPEAKER_02 22:05

You should. You really should. You really should. And you shouldn't be afraid. It's not like offensive, you know, to see those things or to want it. That's why when you mentioned said don't mention clients, I mean, you could go on our YouTube channel. Literally, every placement we do for our clients on TV and podcasts, because you can't really put the print placements on YouTube, but yeah, they're literally all there. Every client has a playlist. Like, and I am very transparent about that because I want people who engage with our agency to say, like, look, there's no guarantees, but I'm signing up for people that deliver results for everyone else that's paying them. So I'm going to feel really excited and enthusiastic about this engagement because I feel pretty confident there will be guarantees, right? So I we do things like that. We have case studies, we have our Instagram channel that's posting wins all the time because we don't know how else to give, we want people to just feel really good and excited about the process. And so we feel like we can lead by our examples and show people what we do, and they can feel like we're in this together. We're a team, we're gonna do this together and we're gonna win on your behalf. Um, and look at all the other people that we're a team with. There's no secrets, no one's in the shadows. Of course, if we're doing crisis PR, that's a little different. And we totally understand that that would be like with an NDA or very private, but we don't want wins if it's crisis, if it's crisis, but no press coverage. So it's a little different anyway. So, you know, that's how we try to make people feel really comfortable about it by putting it all out there and letting them see our let our work speak for itself.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Well, speaking of comfortable, I know that most people would rather die than be on public stage. So for those business owners that aren't quite comfortable, maybe introverts. I know a lot of business owners are probably going, oh, I'd have to talk in front of a microphone and a video or be on stage. Do you all help coach with that? Or does a PR firm help coach with that, or is that something completely different? Because I would think you'd want your person to be likable on camera, I guess, or be able to answer questions. So who helps them with that?

SPEAKER_02 24:07

You don't really need to be likable. So it's really interesting, actually. Like being likable is one thing. You have to decide what your brand is, okay? And we can guide you through that and help navigate that. I don't know if every PR firm would probably have a relationship with like a media coaching or media like training agency if they don't do it themselves. But I come from TV and a lot of people on my team come from journalism. So like we are equipped to support our clients through that process. I think the most important thing that we can do is get you to a place where you're comfortable. It's really not about like pageant patty perfection. I actually think that was really highly regarded decades ago on TV, you know, that's like Anchorman, the whole joke is like what it used to be. And that was true for guests as well, right? That's not the world that we live in today. So, like if you don't, you don't necessarily now you don't need to be likable, but you do need to be easy to work with. Okay. So though there's like a distinction there. So, like behind the scenes, like you better be agreeable, easy to work with, say yes, never be busy, cancel your plans, don't get sick, like all these really horrible things. Like that, I will tell our clients like you you really want to be. Um, but in terms of you know who you are, we are gonna help you figure out what's the most authentic uh thing that we can present on behalf of your brand and what you're trying to be. Because like maybe you're trying, maybe, maybe you want to be like a uh like a hard lawyer that fights for, you know, fights really scrappy and you're the guy that can, you know, get people the settlement that they deserve. Well, maybe you don't want to be likable, right? Maybe that's not the brand that you are. So we will help you think through that. That's why, you know, our agency is cleary strategies. We're not a booking agency, right? You can hire people just like book you on TV and just get you bookings, right? That's not what we do. Our idea, what we're here to do is build a thoughtful strategy on your behalf that as you navigate the media landscape, the wins are strategic and purposeful and deliberate to get you to your ultimate goal, right? So I think even the idea of thinking through who you should be on camera or who you should be on air. Look, you can tell me that it makes you uncomfortable, but you're a business leader, you own this business, you can't be that nervous, right? You have to talk to people, you're the first line of business development and sales. It's about just getting yourself comfortable in the space that you're in, right? It's like go, okay, well, I am comfortable, I know how to sell my business, I just got to get comfortable when there's like a light, right? But now your home office is a TV studio. So a lot of the discomfort is eliminated because you're in a setting that you should feel good in. So for us, it's about just kind of getting you to see it that way, giving you enough practice to feel good about it. And and most business owners can get there. You know, I it's not a it's not such a stretch when you really think about it and break it down.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah, I I would agree. I just know how that just frightens people when they think of it.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

I know. We can figure that out. You know, I don't actually think I answered about the engineering. Can I go?

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Oh, no, go ahead. Yeah, I forgot to. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

I kind of was talking. So the idea is like we run our agency like an assembly line. Okay. So like everything is very strategic and deliberate and kind of a process, right? So we have these processes, and the last piece of it, so we do the period of discovery, then we're attaching our clients to the news cycle. Each month, in anticipation of the next month, we're having internal meetings on behalf of our whole roster and building like updating our strategy for them, right? So, and then everybody who works for me has a really specific set of skills and they each do those things. So we we run this agency like a system. And as a former systems engineer, I really see that efficiency. And so, again, when I was kind of joking, business owner to business owner versus, you know, publicist to potential, you know, person client, business owner to business owner, I really believe in the value of creating a system inside of your agency that is repeatable and does allow people to kind of hone in on their strengths. And what that does is I think it allows us to do better work, but it also allows us to be more efficient. We're not like publicists in the movies that are like running around like crazy, like taking calls in the middle of the night, like going nuts. Like our clients have businesses and lives too. So if we can present them with potential placements in a way that really feels thoughtful and balanced and steady, our lives are better, their lives are better, the winds are better, right? Everything is better. So I wanted to make sure I close that loop because I said I probably didn't make any sense because I didn't really say how that all came together.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Well, I if our listeners have listened before, I think they caught that because I'm always talking about systems.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Good systems all across the board.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Everything in your business should have a system, in my opinion. I totally agree. So much easier. Well, thank you for clarifying the PR world, but I want to get to your business too, because you're a business owner. Sure. So when we talk about small business pivots, uh before we wrap up today, is there a pivot that you've made in your business or something that you learned along the way that this might be helpful to someone else out there?

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Yes. I think I stopped trying to say yes to every prospective client and offering like every service they thought that we could do for them. We are an extremely niche business and we're very good at it because we're very niche. There's a lot of PR firms that say, Oh, sure, we could do your social or like we could do that, or we could do your LinkedIn ads, or we can subcontract an SEO person. I mean, not that we've never subcontracted, but the idea is if you want great earned media placements, I can think of a handful of agencies that I can count on one hand that do exactly what we do as well as we do, and we're like the best in the biz. And I'm not threatened by them. We're not like we just know we exist, and it's so cool that we've sort of outlined this little space that we can do this so well and do it efficiently with our systems. Because guess what blows up systems saying yes to every other request that you get? Like I had someone today say, Well, can you add like a paid digital strategy to the account? And I'm like, No, I can't. Like, like I and so for me as a business owner and a mom, now I have three kids, you know, so um, and they're little, you know. So for me, it's like that has been the key to longevity and sort of steadiness, which I don't know are words that many people use, like in the small business world, like steady, right? And it's awesome, right? And even the growth is steady, right? So it's not about not growing, it's not about not succeeding or doing better than the year before, but it's about doing it in a way that's like a controlled chaos versus just chaos for chaos's sake. And so for me, that has been a shift for us because in the beginning, I was also just trying to figure out what we were, you know. So some of it's part of the process. I don't think it's all bad, but you do have to wake up one day and say, I'm not doing that anymore. That's not what we do, as painful as it is, but then you're just chasing revenue and you're really not chasing like a sustainable, successful business with longevity, which really should be the goal. Even if you lose maybe one contract or something, it's that's not the problem. Um, so that that's helped us.

Where To Learn More

SPEAKER_00 31:40

I love that because most businesses that come to us that are challenged and they're operating in chaos, the two things they're missing is one, communication. So they don't have effective communication within the organization and clarity, those two things. If they can find clarity and communicate better, they'll have a successful business, but that takes companies like yours, and I'm sure you've piqued the ears of many. So, how can someone learn more about you, what you do? Are there channels you're on, blogs, podcasts, anything like that?

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Sure. Well, you can read about our agency at cleary strategies.com. We've got case studies, there's the all of our social channels are on there as well. And I'm Ronica Cleary, like Monica, but Ronica, uh, with an R. And I'm on LinkedIn. I would love to connect and you know, chat there. I like to be a resource to just answer questions. There's no hard sales for me. That's not my goal because I don't want anyone to hire us that doesn't feel super enthusiastic about it. So if you just have some questions or want to run an idea by me or just not sure, I will take that call and just be a resource to you.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

What's your favorite podcast? Outside of this one, you don't even have to say it.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Oh, let me think. Okay, you have to understand. Like I listen to podcasts partly for work. Um, but I like the I like call her daddy. You know, she's a remarkable host that's really transformed the industry. Um, Alex Cooper. You know, it's kind of she was really wild and salacious, and now she's this like future Barbara Walter. So when I listen to her and I study her in aggregate, she's a really fascinating example of media and the changing landscape in media. And um, she's also a great example of how your brand can transform and how people will allow you to change your brand if you're really smart and strategic about it. Because she is nothing like the woman she was when she started in the Barstool sports world. Um, and people have embraced that and been okay with that change because it was done in a very, very effective way. So I do listen to her podcast. And then, you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts for our clients and for work, but I think that's like a good answer that fits with like what we do.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

No, that's awesome. I I love it. I love it. There's so many out there. There's so many podcasts, so many blogs, so many people, but you can only follow so many. So I love to hear what others listen to. Well, you've been a blessing to many. I wish you continued success.

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SPEAKER_02 34:18

Thank you, Michael. You too.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Thank you for listening to Small Business Pivots. This podcast is created and produced by my company, Boss. Our business is growing yours. Boss offers flexible business loans with business coaching support. Apply in minutes and get approved and funded in as little as 24 to 48 hours at business ownership simplified.com. If you're enjoying this podcast, don't forget to hit the subscribe button and share it as well. If you need help growing your business, email me at Michael at michaeldmorsen.com. We'll see you next time on Small Business Pivots.