If You Want a Better Business, Become a Better Owner | John Nieuwenburg

If your business feels stuck…
it’s not the business.

It’s the owner.

In this episode of Small Business Pivots, Michael sits down with John Nieuwenburg of W5 Coaching to unpack a truth most business owners avoid:

Business problems are personal problems in disguise

From leadership mindset to delegation, cash flow to hiring, John shares what actually holds business owners back—and how to break through it.

This conversation dives deep into:

•  Why mindset is the foundation of business growth 
•  How to reclaim your time as a business owner 
•  The real reason you “can’t afford” to hire 
•  Why most businesses struggle with cash flow (even when profitable) 
•  How culture—not skill—determines success 
•  The systems required to scale without chaos 

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, stuck, or like your business is running you…

This episode will challenge how you think—and how you lead.

Key Takeaways:

•  Why “all business coaching is personal coaching” 
•  The formula for real change (and why most stay stuck) 
•  How to get 5–7 hours back every week through delegation 
•  The mindset shift from operator → owner 
•  Why culture drives performance more than talent 
•  How systems reduce chaos as your business grows 
•  Why your “burning bush” problem must be solved first 

This Episode Is For:

•  Business owners working too many hours 
•  Entrepreneurs stuck doing everything themselves 
•  Leaders struggling with hiring or team culture 
•  Owners who feel profitable… but have no cash 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:02

If you're a business owner feeling stuck, overwhelmed, and ready to grow, you're in the right place. Welcome to Small Business Pivots, where founders share insights, stories, and pivots that lead to sustainable growth. I'm your host, Michael D. Morrison, a business coach helping business owners get unstuck and grow. All right, welcome to another Small Business Pivots where we bring guests from around the world. And today you might want to buckle up because we got two business coaches on the show today. And I know you're going to learn a lot. John, our guest today, I'm going to go ahead and let you introduce yourself because I know a lot of our listeners kind of like to hear a little bit of background, how you got into the adulting world, and a little bit about uh your history. So I'll let you have the floor.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Well, thanks for that. Pleasure to be here. Uh so I'm a business coach, and I've been a business coach since 2004. Um, when I first started as a business coach, I had a bit of an epiphany. And the epiphany was, oh my gosh, I've always been a business coach. And I it was Steve Jobs who said you can only connect the dots going backwards. And my epiphany was connecting some dots, and I'll share a few of them with you. Uh, I'm the eldest of eight children. So you can imagine the role you're cast into if you're the eldest of eight. I'm hardwired to be a teacher, and I knew that in high school, but in those days that meant wearing a Harris tweed coat with elbow patches and that style of teaching didn't appeal to me very much. Uh, but one of the most important things I learned early in the 80s, I learned something called the Socratic method of leadership. So Socrates had it, the best way to help somebody is to help them figure it out for themselves. And I've been practicing that style of leadership ever since then. And, you know, at its core, that's really what coaching is. And so I've been thinking and acting like a coach since that time. Um, before that, I was the president of a very large beverage alcohol retailer, so 3 billion in sales and 200 locations and uh 4,000 full-time equivalents. And I started business life at a national Canadian national Minnesota retailer. I was a sales guy on a sales floor. And 17 years later, I lived in a bunch of places. Ultimately, I was in head office after five, which is in Toronto. After five years, I decided I really wanted to get back to the West Coast and Vancouver and all of what that has to offer. And so I got myself headhunted, and that's how I uh came back to Vancouver. Uh, a couple more bits. Uh, my wife Jennifer and I have been together for about 20 years as well. We don't have any kids, but like so many others, we had a uh got a dog in April of 2020. You might remember we were uh during COVID, we're looking for reasons to get outside. Yeah. Um, used to be a pretty avid skier, have some gray hair, my knees don't work as good, but I do go golfing um twice a week. And last thing I'll say is um I've read 500 books, which may seem like a lot, but if you read 10 books a year for 50 years, you get to 500. Yeah, I actually think the number's conservative because at one stage of life I threw out a thousand paperbacks. Um I'm very confident the 500 is a real number. So anyway, that's by way of a bit of background.

Business Coaching Is Personal Coaching

SPEAKER_00 3:23

That's fantastic. Well, as business coaches, I often say that I learned a lesson a long time ago, and that was until I change, nothing around me changes. And I know that for business owners, many times we like to say, why can't I find this? or why doesn't that happen to me? And so we kind of kind of push the blame a little bit towards other things, can't find the good employees, this, that, and other. But it all starts with the business owner, right? I know one of your comments is if you want a better business, the business needs a better owner. So let's just start there and focus on ourselves first.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Yeah. So um when business owners reach out to business coaches, they often think the problems are in the business. But the secret I'll share, and you probably know this as well, is all business coaching is personal coaching in disguise. Yeah. And by that I don't mean therapy, but what I do mean is a lot of business owners ought to be better at things like leadership, communication, and delegation. And for certain, they need uh a shift in their mindset often as they start thinking about and how they identify and the role they expect themselves to be leading. And so all change starts with first shifting the mindset that led you to where you are. If you want to get to a different place, your mindset needs to change before that happens.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

So, how do we change our mindset? Because there's people like myself. Sometimes I like to try to convince myself, say a mantra every day, and that really doesn't do anything. So, is there kind of a path that you see that works best for most business owners? Because we're so busy trying to run a business to stop and focus on our mindset is sometimes challenging.

The Formula For Real Change

SPEAKER_01 5:10

It definitely is. Um, you know, the nothing, nothing or nobody will change until the cost of staying where you are becomes greater than the cost of changing. And so, what do I mean by that? Uh, people will stay stuck if they feel like that's the best outcome or the best result they could get, but they can sometimes get to a place where it no longer is acceptable. I can't live with it. And so I'm willing to pay the cost, the consequence to do the things it takes to get to the next level. Um, there's an actual formula called the formula for change. D times V times FS has to be greater than resistance. So D is dissatisfaction, V is vision, first steps, and it has to be greater than resistance. So we stay stuck in resistance unless we can get this equation to move in the other direction. And so dissatisfaction is pain, fear, frustrations, vision is wants, needs, aspirations. Um, dissatisfaction typically is more motivating, pain, hand on the stove. Vision has big upside, lots of possibilities, lots of, you know, vision is as big as your imagination could be. Uh, and so what has to happen is people need to get in touch or aware of or label or name or crystallize. You know, my current circumstances, not I'm not happy with it anymore. And I know there needs to be a better way, but I don't know how to get started, the first steps. And so that's when they start reaching out for help.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

So almost like hitting rock bottom, right? Just exhausted and tired of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Exactly. Yeah. Every everyone who ever becomes a client at some point has a I call it a burning bush. So such an issue that's big enough in their business that they can't live with it anymore. And they they've tried everything, they're beating their head against the wall and they say, I I need help. I don't know how to do this.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

We mentioned mindset and the time that it takes. It's not an overnight formula, right? It's ongoing. And I think that's kind of the the myth for a lot of business owners is we just want to check a box. Okay, next, now tackle the next problem. But we can't do that without having more time. How do

Getting Time Back Through Delegation

SPEAKER_00 7:35

we get our time back as a business owner? Because I hear business owners all the time saying, I want to do coaching, I want to take that course, I just don't have time.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah, so it's a paradox. And but here's the thing: I've yet to work with a business owner. I'm gonna use up some language here, who is every business owner I ever start with is currently doing five to seven hours worth of work every week. They should not be doing. Now, what's that nature of the work? Well, Mr. Business Owner, tell me what's on your oh shit list. What's that? Tell me about the list of things that every time you have to do payroll or receivables or another quote, or and you silently or some part of you says, Oh shit, I have to. That's a clue. You shouldn't be doing that work anymore. That work can be done capably and in fact better than you. And that work can be done for by someone very well for 20 bucks an hour nowadays. Because of the internet, I can get you an engineer for 20 bucks an hour uh overseas that can do all the quoting you need done in your business if you're in trades of one kind or another. And what does that free you up to do? It frees you up to do work that's worth 200 bucks an hour to the business. Or you get to make a choice. I can go to my kids' hockey game. Right now, you're trapped, you've got handcuffs, and that handcuffs come from the idea. You know, generally what happens, a lot of the owners I work with are um tradespeople, home services, electricians, that kind of thing. They start their got a tool belt, they get a truck and they're busy, and now it's two trucks and three trucks, and now it's five trucks, but they're still operating the business with the mindset of I'm the electrician who has tools and I work in my business. The shift that has to happen is no, you're a business owner that happens to do electrical work. That's the first shift that has to happen because that mindset changes how you think about your business. You can't be on tools anymore if you've got 10 trucks. Your time is not best spent with tools in your hands. You know, the the example I like to think about this as a metaphor. You're in the Navy, you're a captain, and a 50-foot boat and the crew is 10, and you're the most qualified engine room guy, you're the best electrician. How often is that captain in the engine room with tools? All the time. He's maybe he's got a helper. Okay, well, no, let's make you a captain 150-foot boat. Now the crew is 50. How often is that captain in the engine room with tools? Better be close to never. Because now that captain ought to have a guy who's the engine room guy. And if there's a fire, of course he'll jump in. But now he he's his role is different. He's got to be the leader of not just the engine room, but every other department in the in the on the boat. Now let's make you a captain of an aircraft carrier. There's 2,000 people on board. How often is that captain in the engine room at all? Well, maybe to give somebody a 20-year uh, you know, certificate, 20 years of service, because that captain now has a guy who manages the guy who's the engine room guy. Now, the title's the same, but what you do and how you create value and what uh leadership looks like completely changes at each of those three levels. And if you want to get from 10 trucks or get your life back, how you think about what your role is and what you focus on has to change to uh line up with what the business needs from you. If the owner wants a better business, first the business needs a better owner.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yeah.

Hiring Math Through Margins And Cash

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Well, speaking of the employees, I often hear this question, and that is I'm a solopreneur, I'm good at what I do. So how do I get the jobs, do the jobs, and I don't have much money left to hire somebody because I also have to pay an accountant and this, that, another. So there just seems to be this uh yo-yo effect of I can afford employee. No, I can't. I need to go get more sales. Well, to get more sales, I got to go fulfill the job. And so they're kind of stuck in that place. And and I don't, I don't personally have the right exact answer. I think it's uh unique to each business, but what are some of the things you found of how can they get sales, do the job, and hire people and afford people?

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Well, the first question I ask is what's your actual gross margin? And lots of business owners when what's that? Okay, well, that's the problem. If you don't know what it is, you're clearly not uh getting enough gross margin to make a business that's profitable and affordable. Uh and often business owners in the trades confuse markup with gross margin. Uh and when they do, they're not getting the result that they want. Um, the second thing is lots of business owners are very bad or tardy about uh receivables. And so they'll have you know receivables that are 120 days out, and they're wondering how come they don't have any cash. And the third thing is do they actually have a cash flow forecast? Can they actually predict what's how much cash is coming into the business, uh, which most don't, and um, you know, which is in effect the same as getting on an airplane and the pilot doesn't have a navigation plan. How's that gonna work out? Not very well. Um, so there is some investment, there's a leap of faith, and lots of times we make stair step changes and how the business grows. Um, but there's almost certainly that there's mechanics in the business that aren't correct if what you're saying to yourself is I can't afford to hire somebody. What you really want to be saying is I can't afford not to hire somebody. Now, what would have to be true for you to believe that's true? Well, you need lots more certainty about some of the things that you probably don't understand well enough, i.e., cash flow margin, um, working capital, why there's a gap between paying payroll and getting paid for it yourself. What how come that happens? I have a client who um in March did twice the business that he did in December. So over the span, he's doubled the size of his business. And he he's wondering why PL says I'm profitable, but I don't have any money. Why? Well, let me explain working capital. Let me explain the cash gap. Let me help you understand what happens if you double your business, how much that stresses cash flow in your business. Your business is great, but there's a there's a consequence of the success that you're having. And it's uh understanding what it is and then managing it that's gonna help you get to the next level.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, yeah. There's a there's a lot of moving parts to that. And each business, it's unique to them, right? Some people have more resources, some people have left, some people have a natural leadership style, sales style. So some people get sales faster than others. So let's talk about when you're ready for that employee.

Hiring For Culture And Clear Rules

SPEAKER_00 14:52

How can we find a good employee for our business? And how do we keep them? I know that's kind of a hot topic, too.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

It is. Um, so technical people tend to put too much emphasis on technical skills when they're hiring. But here's an important thing for you to consider people don't get fired for skills, they get fired for culture. Bad attitudes, being late, bad work habits. And so if you want a great employee, hire for culture first. Technical skills you can teach. I'll put it a different way. I'm in Canada, so we think about hockey an awful lot. The team that wins the Stanley Cup doesn't necessarily always have the highest level of talent, but they will have the best culture of any of the teams. Now, most business owners think of culture as an afterthought, kind of like a cherry on top. And what I'd say to you is that it's actually foundational. If you get the culture right, almost everything else becomes easier. Um, leadership is about setting expectations, about setting how people conduct themselves, and then holding people accountable for those results. And that's what culture ultimately is. Or put a different way, what the team actually knows to be true is whatever you tolerate is what the culture is. Or I'll put it a different way, you've got 10 people. I've asked this question a lot. You've got 10 people, if you could start your business again, how many of the 10 would you rehire? Most common questions about half. So are you telling me, Mr. and Ms. Business owner, half your people are pissing off the other half? Half of your people are pissing off your customers, and you're wondering why you have problems? Now, why do you put up with that? You're tolerating it, you're accepting it. You say, Well, I'm stuck. You're only stuck because you choose that as the outcome. You're not stuck, you choose not to solve it. Get first of all, get the culture right. Um, and I'll use another metaphor for that. Um, why are the Ten Commandments written in stone? We don't debate them. Thou shalt not kill is a commandment. All right, well, show me your culture. Show me your commandments. What are people expecting? How are people expected to behave? How do you hold them accountable if they don't behave that way? How do you reward them when they do? I'll teach you the technical skills, but let's be clear about what we expect in terms of behavior. How people relate to each other, how they relate to the customers, how they treat their uh our vendors, our supply houses. Um, get the culture right. Lots of other things become easier. If you don't get the culture right, you'll be complaining about staff that are late and people not doing good work. And yeah, all of that matters, but it starts with the foundation is this culture.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yeah, it's almost like road signs, right? So if every road didn't have a stop sign, a speed limit, and all this, people would just drive erratically and just all over the place. And that's really what a business is without rules.

Systems That Beat Talent Every Time

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, you know, I have a way to help think about complexity. So um, if there are three people in a room, how many handshakes need to take place so that every person shakes every everyone's hand? The the answer to that is three. So a and b, b and c, a and c. So there's actually everybody does two handshakes, but the total is three. Okay, so there's a formula for this. So three times three is nine, less three is six divided by two is three. Okay, great. All right, well, let's get 10 people. Well, 10 times 10 is 100, less 10 is 90 divided by two is 45. So what's happened? Well, we've grown the business by a multiple of three. We've grown the complexity by a multiple of 15. So when there's three people in the room, it's easier to set the tone and culture, and you're talking to everybody all the time. When you have 10 people, complexity rises to the level where your individual capability of setting the tone and setting the culture and teaching people and all those kinds of things has to now can't rely on you telling everybody every minute what needs to be done. Or put a different way, how do they get those French fries to taste the same in your town or mine? And the fries are made by a 16-year-old, and the parents of the 16-year-old can't get him or her to clean their bedroom. How do they do that? They have great systems. It's a recipe, it's a formula. We can do it over and over and over again anywhere in the world. Now, I get a lot of pushback on that because some owners say, well, I don't make fries. I'm, you know, I make custom cabinets and I uh make uh, you know, every job I do is particular. It needs to be um well, um what I would say to that is uh, would you be willing to undergo an operation if the surgeon in the operating room nurse didn't follow a checklist? I started with 30 scalpels, but I only count 29 and we've already buttoned up the patient. Oops. Yeah. So even in the work of a surgeon very highly specialized, very highly trained, they still are um capable of making those kinds of mistakes. They're very talented at the work they do, but uh all of us are the product of human failure or inconsistencies or uh need systems around us to ensure that we perform work at the same high standard, time and again. Hey, would you get on an airplane if you knew the pilot didn't do the pre-flight checklist? Would you be okay with that? Hey, the pilot's talented, he's good. He's done this a hundred times. Why do they do the pre-flight checklist? To make sure it's done exactly right every time because it people's lives depend on it.

Free Coaching Offer Break

SPEAKER_00 20:54

You're listening to Small Business Pivots with Michael D. Morrison. If you're ready to get your business unstuck and grow, let's chat. Schedule your free session at Michael D.Morrison.com. Now back to the show.

Exceptions, Autonomy, And Escalation

SPEAKER_00 21:12

What is some insight on? I had a business owner who is beginning to implement some systems, but he's frustrated because people can't use their best judgment when to bypass a system. In other words, they have some cleaning policies, right? So they have a showroom. Well, they had some hot jobs also back in the in the plant. And so they have a schedule every week where people have to come in, sweep, mop, keep the showroom spick and span, but they also had two hot jobs, and they're like, why couldn't he figure out like these jobs are more important than that? The cleaning process. And so gave him my answer. I'm curious to see what you would say.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

About 85% of what happens in a business ought to be a routine. We have a routine, we have a system, this is how it's done. About eight, fifteen percent of the time stuff happens, exception happens. Um, when that cleaning team was sent to that facility, they they were sent with a level of autonomy and authority to do what was expected. They weren't clear about what the rules were on what required escalation. Clearly, that circumstance called for someone to say, I'm not sure what to do. I know what I was sent here to do, but circumstances have changed. I probably need to consult with somebody. So back to the fries. Um one afternoon, we run out of potatoes. We don't know what to do. Guess we better phone the boss at 10 o'clock on Saturday night. Hey, we ran out of potatoes. What should we do? All right, well, that's one of those exceptions. Um, but what happens on Monday is we don't look for a people solution, we look for a system solution. What does that mean? Well, what would have to be true so the next time we run out of potatoes, people in the restaurant would know what to do. They wouldn't need to phone somebody at 10 o'clock at night. Let's solve and create a system solution so that every time we identify exceptions, we create a systematic way. So, in that example that you've been describing, the um the degree of autonomy and authority weren't clear enough to the team that went out there that in that circumstance they should have consulted. They were expected to consult with whoever the team leader is, or the boss, or the owner. And so that is another example of an owner becoming better in how they delegate.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

My answer exactly. I said, I said, let me let me see your schedule. Were they aware of the jobs? This was on a Friday. Were they aware? Because he said there were big, big jobs coming right behind those two jobs. I said, Were they aware of that? I said, Next time you need to figure out like why they didn't know how to make that decision, because this process over here clearly says, here's the steps, how to clean, and you even have to sign your name by 11 o'clock every Friday, required. Other part, so they could they didn't have enough information. And so I'm right in agreement with you. And I know that's a lot of business owners' frustration or concern is I don't want a bunch of robots here that can't make their own decisions over what's most important. And so you're kind of clearing that up for us.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Yeah, well, um, you do want to be clear with people what level of autonomy and authority they have that they can um execute what you've agreed on as the expectation. That you're not looking for robots, but you are looking for people that have enough judgment to know this is an exception, and I need to get some help with that.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Love it. I love it.

What To Delegate In Sales And Marketing

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Well, I also know sales and marketing is a big deal uh for business. I I believe founder sales top most sales, but what should a business owner be working on when it comes to the sales and marketing? Is it the face-to-face outside sales, inside sales, putting the sales playbook together, working on marketing? Because I see so many business owners just dabbling in so many things. Like you said earlier, you need to be delegating this and that. And so, what should a business owner be working on when it comes to the sales and marketing?

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Um escalate what you do with your time. So the first thing you should get off your plate is anything on your old shit list. And that's what a VA does, and they're handling the rings, pings, and dings, your inbox, your calendar, the phone, all of the things that interrupt you. So once that's clear, the next thing to get off your plate is anything that uh it takes to deliver the promise of the business. So when it comes to whatever your business is, the person responsible for delivering it, that person's name is the person, the VP of electrician work or the VP of uh operating law firm. But you get that off your plate, and you now have someone senior enough that they are carrying out that mission for you. The next thing that comes off your plate is everything it takes in your business to generate leads. And that can look different depending on the type of business that you have, but there ought there ought to be a systematic, a tactical marketing plan, a systematic way that, well, first of all, there needs to be a revenue and profit plan. So what's what's the forecast? What are we expecting in terms of sales? Then we can reverse engineer, okay. Well, now we know that. What do we need to see happening in terms of leads, uh, conversion, um, whatever that is for your business? How can we reverse engineer that so we know we're getting enough leads to actually drive or reach the revenue that we're expecting? And then once we know that, we can then create a sales system to deliver against that. Now, that's the last of the four things I just described. That's the last thing that comes off your plate. So when you talk about founder sales, I completely agree with that. That uh when you've got enough leads coming into the business that you can hire someone on commission sales to take over that role is the time you can delegate that. Commission. Yeah. So if if a salesperson is expecting a hundred thousand dollars, well, we can reverse engineer how many sales that person needs to make and how many leads it takes to make that number of sales. And when we achieve those levels, we then can take sales off the plate for you.

Sales As A Learnable Skill

SPEAKER_00 27:56

I know sales is difficult these days because there's so much noise out there, there's a lot of digital. Now we got AI and all these things. How can a founder or business owner get better at sales with everything that's going on around them today, in today's world?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

If you're a tradesperson, how long does it take to become a red seal electrician? Five years. You're a professional. So the other kind of clients I work with are uh professional advisors. So they're lawyers and accountants and physiotherapists and dentists and that kind of how long does it take to become a lawyer? Seven years. All right. Well, how much business training did you get? Did you get any sales training? You didn't. So you're super at being a lawyer, but you've never given yourself the benefit of learning how to sell. So it's a skill, it's repeatable. You can learn how to do it. I can help you with that. But it requires applying yourself against an area that you're not yet um developed or grown or developed as a skill. So why don't we just name what it is and then help you figure out how to become better at selling whatever it is you do in your business.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

So we need to be a salesperson, we need to be a leader, we need to be that, you know, we need to do a lot of things, right, as business owners. But the one thing I continually hear you say is take off the belt. Like you don't need to be on the job. You have other things to be focused on, correct?

SPEAKER_01 29:35

What the shift that has to happen is many people rise to the level where they think I'm I'm an electrician that owns a business. And the shift I'm talking about is no, you're a business owner that happens to do electrical work, electrician's work, or a business owner that does home services, carpet cleaning, or whatever it happens to be. When that shift happens, is when you actually become um a leader owner instead of an operator owner. And that doesn't happen until you identify mindset, you shift how you think about what your job is, what your role is. And what it looks like is you're no longer putting on a belt.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

I use this statement from time to time with some business owners that I've worked with, and I said, uh, because they really had a hard problem with that mindset shift. And I said, think about it this way: when you're estimating a new project, don't think about how I'm going to get this done. Think about who I'm going to have do it. And that way you're taking yourself out of the equation.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah, that's a fabulous, fabulous thought. Um, that shift also comes with not how can I get this done. There's a way better question you ought to be asking yourself. How can this get done? And the only word I took out of those two sentences is the word I. Yeah. How can I get this done is not the same as how can this get done. And as soon as you ask yourself the second question, you start thinking about it very differently.

Know Your Numbers Without Shame

SPEAKER_00 31:07

You mentioned numbers earlier. So, any advice for those, because I know contractors, most of us don't have a financial mindset. We didn't go to accounting school or anything. So, what are some of the basics that a business owner needs to know? That these are the simplicities of knowing your numbers start here.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah. So I have a bit of a rant on this topic. The small business owner community is very badly served by the accountants who serve small business owners. Now, that sounds like a slag on accountants, but it isn't. Uh what's the issue is there's a very different set of expectations. So, what does an accountant think who serves small business owners? What do they think their role is? Well, taxes, compliance, and year end. That's what I do. I supply that information to you. Business owners have some question around, well, what do these numbers mean? And they go to their accountant, and their accountant at this kind of accountant is not equipped to answer that question. And so they give a very bad answer and it leaves that business owner confused, uncertain. I don't know. And they're kind of embarrassed because it's like, I'm talking to my accountant, I don't know what the hell he's talking about. But here's the truth, he doesn't know what he's talking about either. Because the kind of accountant you need is uh someone who's um has a strategic view of the business, they're CFOs. Now, if you're a one million dollar business, you're you don't have a CFO and you can't even afford a fractional CFO, but you need someone who can look at your numbers and help you understand what they mean. And um uh because of how things are set up, your accountant is not the person who can help you. In fact, many of the books I see uh don't properly uh account for cost of sales, and as a result, can't properly account for gross margin. And why is that? Well, cost of materials and everything is in the cost of sales, but often all labor is is in a labor category and direct sales. There isn't a portion of labor attributed to cost of sales. And when you go talk to an accountant, there's a lot of resistance in making that change, and they don't know why. It's gobsmacking. Uh, and so I've had lots and lots and lots of conversations with accountants that and had to kind of force a circumstance where we split apart uh fixed labor or um indirect expenses so that we could put all direct expenses into cost of sales and therefore get an accurate gross margin, get a real gross margin. And so um uh part of the value of a business coach is uh at the level of the businesses that I'm working with, and I suspect you then 1,500,000, 2 million, 3 million is I'll act as your CFO. Now I can't take fiduciary responsibility. I can't guarantee the numbers are correct because I'm not that's not what I'm able to help you with. Your accountant should be doing that, but I'll help you understand what the numbers mean. I'll help you understand what you should be doing differently, what's working, not working, and what needs to be changed in order to uh make things better.

Fix The Burning Bush First

SPEAKER_00 34:28

There's a lot to this, right? That's why it's always good to ask for help. That's why there's people like yourselves out here to do that. And we've talked about a lot of things today. So can you kind of revisit? And maybe I know a lot of business owners are like if somebody just gave me a step-by-step plan, I could crush it. And I hear that a lot. So can you just kind of revisit the things we've talked about today? How to become a better, successful business owner, start here, then here, then here, just kind of those high focal points so they can wrap this all together in their head.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

I'm gonna answer that a little differently than the question you raised. And I'll I'll start by uh telling a story. So when I first started as a business coach, I was trying to answer the question you just asked. Hey, what should we do in what order to fix the? But let's do a strategic plan, let's do a business plan, let's map out what we think our engagement for the next 12 months is going to look like. And I was working with this particular owner for about three, four weeks. And in about week four, I said, Hey, you're not very engaged with this, like you're not really uh helping out that much or contributing much to it, or you don't seem like this is a thing for you. And he looked at me square in the face and said, I don't know why we're doing this, John. I can't make payroll tomorrow. And I realized I was a doofus. He's right. And so what I've learned is that when I first start with a client, there's always a burning bush. In his case, I can't make payroll. Lots of cases is I'm working 70 hours a week. And so the first thing we have to do in any engagement is take the pressure off, fix the thing, whatever that thing is. And then we can uh we have the breathing room and the space to then go about systematizing the business. And there's a five-step framework that I use in 21, there's a systematic way to answer the question that you're answering. But before we start doing that, applying that process to your business, the first thing we're gonna do is fix whatever the burning bush is. And there's always a burning bush, always a thing that's so painful that that's what causes them to, you know. I just started with a new client. The client owns a very, very, very successful uh bakery. Um, this client uh has four people in the business, they have 27 in total, they have four kind of team leads, and uh one of those team leads left, quit. That business owner was back, it's a bakery, back at four in the morning for three months, and then said, I can't do this again. Oh, well, let's solve that problem first, because we can't have it where if somebody leaves, you're back in the in the engine room again for three months to fix that before you can get a replacement. Um, so it's another example of a different kind of burning bush. Uh, and the burning bush is always pretty clear or pretty evident when you first meet a prospect. The first couple of meetings, you know for sure what it's what needs to be done first um in order to give that business owner some some space, some um, some peace, some um perspective to help them think about, okay, I got that solved. Now let's figure out the bigger picture. So that's not quite an answer to your question, but that's typically what an engagement looks like.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah, no, that's that's that's great. Uh in uh in other words, pivot around. And that's the the name of our podcast, Small Business Pivot, because there is, in my opinion, there are no certain steps. It's whatever that burning bush is that you're talking about. That's what we need to address. Because right behind it, there's going to be another burning bush and another one. And eventually you'll have a lot of the big bushes extinguished out, but you're you're still gonna have some. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Uh among the first things, the first meeting is um uh I have the business owner benchmark their business against uh uh a standard 21 silver bullets. There's a um both on a quantitative and qualitative, I have them identify what isn't isn't working in their business, and that gets adapted. What is and isn't working, what is and isn't relevant, and we adapt it to the circumstances of the business. But before we start implementing that in that structured way that I'm describing to you, it's like let's fix the thing first, whatever that thing is, and then we can uh proceed from there.

Where To Find John And W5

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah, no, I I I love that. Well, you've helped us a lot with business owners. How about yourself? How do you what's your business? How do you help? Where are you at on social? Can we find you, get more information?

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Yeah, so uh my uh business name is W5 Coaching, W5coaching.com. You're probably wondering what W5 is. And I told you earlier about the Socratic method of leadership. So Socrates had it. The best way to help somebody is to help them figure it out for themselves. And how do you do that? You have you help them think. And how do you do that? Well, you ask really good questions, and one of the five core questions who, what, when, were, why? So W5.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Hopefully, that'll help you remember. If you remember W5 and who, what, when, were, why, I'm easy to find.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yeah, I love that. Are you on social media at all where people can find out, yeah, learn more from me?

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Facebook, um X or Twitter and LinkedIn, um, you know, all the usual platforms, but um W5 Coaching, and uh it'll uh lead you to all of the information you might like to have.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Well, I try to end with one question that's unique to our show. And and today's is I know a lot of business owners are embarrassed, right? They have this facade that they've got this business, they can't let the public see all of their weaknesses or challenges. So, how can I've been told that business owners are resistant to asking for help? So, do you have any words of encouragement, any advice to say it's okay, come talk to us? How can you encourage business owners to reach out for help? Because that's one thing a lot of business owners don't like to do.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah, they don't. Uh, until the pain is so great that uh the pain of staying where they are uh is uh more than um there's a wonderful um um TEDx talk by a woman named Brenny Brown, B-R-E-N B-R-E-N-E Brown. And uh in it, she talks about the power of vulnerability. It's only had 65 million views. Most of us resist being vulnerable. And the point of her story is when we see vulnerability, it's actually very, very attractive. People um are very attracted to people that are willing to be vulnerable. Why? Because it's so rare to see. And so what you think, or what you're resisting because of your fear is actually, I'll put it a different way. Um Ryan Holmes wrote a book called uh The Obstacle is the way, which is uh kind of a riff on the uh Roman Stoics. And the point that he said is whatever you think the obstacle is, that's the clue, that's the target, that's the thing you have to solve. The obstacle is the way. Or um, I told you I was a hockey fan. There's a guy named Trevor Lyndon who was the captain of the Vancouver Canox. His way of saying is what you resist persists. What you resist, whatever it is you're resisting, that's the thing you need to solve. And as soon as you're willing to take it on, is the sooner you're gonna get. Now, what I have a metaphor for this, a lot of business owners will put up with a toothache, it's uncomfortable, they chew on the other side, but they just kind of live with it. And what they're doing really is they're tolerating a toothache because they're afraid of the root canal. The root canal is very painful at the moment. But ultimately that's the thing that leads to the solution or leads to success. Now, here's the thing about a root canal, or sorry, about a toothache, it never gets better. There's only one direction that thing's gonna go. That's just gonna get worse. So on where on that path from toothache to root canal, would you like to get some help? Yeah, at the root canal stage, or when it's still at a dull ache, it's a choice. Yeah, act on it if you're if you recognize you have a toothache, um, ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

That's right. Amen. What you resist persists. Absolutely.

Vulnerability, Resistance, And The Toothache

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Well, John, you've been a pleasure today. You've shared a lot of valuable information. Anything we didn't cover that you'd love to shout out?

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Well, no, thanks for the time. I appreciated having the this place to have a chat about um business owners and uh some of the challenges they face.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Fantastic. Well, I wish you continued success and thank you again for your time.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

My pleasure.

Closing And Subscribe Reminder

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Thanks for listening to Small Business Pivots. If you're ready to get unstuck and grow, Schedule your free coaching session at michaeldmorrison.com. On social media, you can find and connect with me using the handle Michael D.Morrison OKC. And if today's episode helped you, subscribe and share it with other business owners. Until next week, keep pivoting.