Stacked Keys Podcast
The idea to talk to women who are out there living and making a difference is where the Stacked Keys Podcast was born. There are women who make a difference, but never make a wave while paddling through life. Immediately I can think of a dozen or more who impacted me, but I want more. I want to talk to those I don't know and I want to share with an audience that might need the inspiration to find their own beat. This podcast is to feature women who are impressive in the work world-- or in raising a family -- or who have hobbies that can make us all be encouraged. Want to hear what makes these women passionate and get up in the morning or what they wish they had known earlier in life? Grab your keys and STOMP to your own drum.
Stacked Keys Podcast
Episode 238 -- Jessica Sanders -- Beyond the Bench: What Makes a Strong Leader in Law and Life
Jessica Sanders takes us behind the judicial bench to reveal the path that led her from tough prosecutor to compassionate district court judge. With disarming honesty, she shares the delicate balance between upholding the letter of the law and honoring her own sense of justice – sometimes making decisions that feel personally difficult but legally necessary.
Having served Autauga County for over two years as District Court Judge after a decade-plus career as a prosecutor, Jessica offers a rare glimpse into what makes an effective judicial temperament. "I have to continue to study for the rest of my life," she admits, dismantling the notion that judges have all the answers. Instead, she emphasizes being studious, candid, and committed to service as foundational to administering justice fairly.
Beyond her professional insights, Jessica reveals how her relationship with her special needs brother has shaped her worldview and given her perspective on life's true priorities. Her dedication to servant leadership shines through as she describes wanting to be "the leader that will take the trash out at the end of the day" – a philosophy that guides both her courtroom and her community service through organizations like Rotary and Lions Club.
Perhaps most compelling is Jessica's perspective on personal responsibility – what she would change about the world if given one wish. "It seems like human nature for us to always have somebody else we want to blame," she reflects, advocating for a return to individual accountability as the path toward positive change. Her message of balancing faith, discipline, and service offers wisdom applicable far beyond the courtroom.
Whether you're fascinated by the justice system, seeking leadership inspiration, or simply drawn to authentic conversation about finding purpose through service to others, this episode delivers profound insights wrapped in warm, accessible storytelling. Join us for this memorable discussion with a remarkable woman who's making a difference one judicial decision at a time.
Music "STOMP" used by permission of artist Donica Knight Holdman and Jim Huff
I'm walking all alone down my yellow brick road and I stomp to the beat of my own drum. I got my pockets full of dreams and they're busting at the seams, going boom, boom boom.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Stacked Keys Podcast. I'm your host, amy Stackhouse. This is a podcast to feature women who are impressive in the work world or in raising a family, or who have hobbies that make us all feel encouraged. Want to hear what makes these women passionate to get up in the morning, or what maybe they wish they'd known a little bit earlier in their lives.
Speaker 1:Grab your keys and stomp to your own drum. Whatever you do, it ain't nothing on me, cause I'm doing my thing and I hold the key to all my wants and all my dreams Like an old song.
Speaker 2:Everything will be alright when I let myself go. Well, I'm pretty excited today. I have known our guest a little while through my husband and through a civic club Rotary and so if any of you listeners are familiar with that, then you already know that we are going to be talking with somebody who is a doer and who is out there in the community and who cares a lot about people as individuals. So today I welcome Jessica Sanders.
Speaker 3:Hi, welcome. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm really excited and you know it's funny because I'm a spouse of a Rotarian and so I just get to see you on the festive and occasions when Rotary is doing something. But I know that there are so many people who know you so right out of the gate. Let's get started with. How do people know Jessica, both professionally and personally?
Speaker 3:So I would say in our community I'm most well known as being a former prosecutor. That's what, like my, uh, my job was for more than 10 years. So, professionally, I kind of just you know you, you become what you do sometimes. So I um was a. I was a prosecutor in Otago, elmore and Chilton counties for over 10 years and people knew me as a tough prosecutor. That was it. I was always tough but fair. I had great opportunities to meet law enforcement around our community, to meet business folks and, just, you know, regular folks, people who find themselves in the court system, not necessarily because they want to be there. Maybe their house has gotten broken into, maybe their car has gotten broken into. So you have an opportunity to meet a lot of people. And when you are a prosecutor for that long, I can't tell you how many times I'm at the grocery store now and people don't know if they recognize me, like how they recognize me, and then we talk for a minute and they're like, oh, I was on a jury. So you know, I was a trial lawyer for a long time. So I've, you know, dealt with hundreds of people who come in to serve on jury duty and you spend, even if it's a day, if it's three days, whatever it might be, you spend time with people. You just have an opportunity to have that connection in our community. So I am now our district court judge. So I have been our district court judge in Autauga County for January was two years, so a little over two years now. So now they know me as that. But I still think people you know sometimes when they see me they don't necessarily know the how or the why, they just recognize a face. And I think I'm at a disadvantage on that because I'm a single face and there are hundreds of faces. So I'm always at a disadvantage and sometimes leave. Well, my husband will leave me on one aisle of Walmart and he will be four aisles over just because he's unsure of how we might know somebody. But so professionally people have known me for years to be around the courthouse Personally. My husband Russ and I have gosh. We have called Prattville home for so long. I have been out of law school now for 20 years and I've always worked in Prattville. For a short period of time I did go into Montgomery and work as an assistant attorney general, but even then we still had our private connections and my husband Russ was working in private at that time. So when we swapped, when I went to Montgomery to work for a little bit, he was in private working as the assistant parks and rec director. So people know Russ from the ballparks, people know me from the courthouse, but so you know, that's just kind of how they know us. And we love Prattville, love everything about it. Russ is actually serving in another capacity now, he's on city council, so they still kind of know us in that way.
Speaker 3:I was so glad to meet your husband Tom and I've been Rotarian. Well, russ and I, husband Tom and I've been Rotarian. Well, russ and I together we have been in Lions Club, for I think they gave us our 15-year pin, which was it? I can't exactly remember, it was 10 or 15 years, but it has flown by. So we had the honor of getting that this past Christmas. That's how long we've been in Lions Club. But I joined Rotary, I guess about three years ago, and have loved it. So, yeah, while you and I see each other at the Rotary Christmas party, I might be picking up trash on the side of the road with your husband as we adopt the mile out near. You know, target and Academy. That's our mile that we clean up out there. So we love service, we love our church, love our friends and we love our work. So that's Jessica and Russ.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a full life. Yeah, tom has us go by and check the mile that y'all pick up and there's sometimes I literally think he's going to pull over and start picking some up, if it's not when y'all are going right out there. Well, you guys are busy. I mean you lead quite a life and sometimes that can pull you in so many different directions. And I got a little tickled if he goes four aisles over because he's not sure how he knows somebody. We have a rule in our family of like if you don't immediately introduce or whatever, the other one needs to step up, because we absolutely can't remember where we know somebody from. Because it's you know, a lot of people have a very personal connection to you, but you are out there doing so much on a daily basis. So did you have any idea when you entered law school that this is the direction and where you wanted to land?
Speaker 3:So I knew I wanted to be an attorney. For a very long time I was that person that even I don't know about as a little girl, can't really remember as a little girl what I said. But as I was a teenager I was like I want to go to law school. I want to go to law school. It's what I wanted to do. I grew up with my mom in training. She taught me to be a very good litigator. She and I would argue about absolutely everything, all during my teenage years. So I say my mom was training me to be the best attorney I could be long before law school.
Speaker 3:So I did know that I wanted to go to law school, so much so that I kind of had that dream, I had that desire and I rushed to college. So I did college in three years instead of four. I went back home to do summer classes and then I would overload a couple of semesters because I was like I've got to keep going to school after this. I don't want to go four and then three. I was like let's shrink down as much as we can. So I did, and Russ and I were already. We were already dating at that time. We've been married for a very long time. So not that I was trying to rush life, but I was just trying to get you know goals accomplished. So I did college in three years instead of four. And then Russ and I got married that summer. So he and I got married the summer, actually the week before I started law school.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So we got married and then I started law school, finished that in three years and I loved, absolutely loved being a prosecutor, loved courtroom, loved everything about it. But I did know, it didn't take me long to realize, I really did think that being a judge, being on the bench, was something that I was cut out for. I feel like I am just a you know, a candid, real person. That is good about getting connections with people and in the role that I serve right now district court, I do juvenile court, I do traffic court, I do small claims, misdemeanors, evictions so a large part of the people that are in my courtroom are not always represented by attorneys. You know they're representing themselves and you know people might joke and say, well, yeah, that's the people's court or what. You know that kind of thing, and sometimes it really is. But I just feel like that's where I'm supposed to serve. I feel like I can, you know I can set the standard high, for we're going to respect courtroom, we're going to do all that. But I can also be real and understand that most people in there don't want to be there and we're going to handle business. You know the best that we can. Yeah, what makes you a good judge? That we can, yeah. What makes you a good judge?
Speaker 3:Oh, I would say that I think that a lot of being a judge is the temperament.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I have to continue to study for the rest of my life, so it's not anything that I'm ever going to know all the answers to, and any judge or attorney that tells you they have all the answers is wrong, because there's inevitably going to be something that comes up where you're like you know, I don't know if you're allowed to do that in this scenario.
Speaker 3:Let me go see what the law says and you have to dig and research. So, always being studious but being candid with people and being committed to service and committed to the law, that creates a temperament for a judge. That's important. I think that a judge's temperament can make or break a case, in that you know, if you feel like your judge is not fair, if you feel like your judge is not really even being a servant of the law, not willing to study and look it up, if you feel like you don't have that kind of judge, then you're not getting justice. So I think the fact that I am willing to always study, give people my absolute best and be fair. I think those are things that make a great judge my absolute best and be fair.
Speaker 2:I think those are things that make a great judge. Yeah Well, you know, in society you hear so much about the word unfair and you probably hear about it more than the average.
Speaker 3:When you hear the word unfair, what do you think of? Well, I cannot help but think um. So, as a Christian, um, I you know, I know I've probably said this to people you know that life is unfair, um, and and as a Christian, we're not meant to understand every part of the life being unfair, Um, but it simply is, and and I can say it's very different today. Sometimes, when I see juveniles, this is something that I think our culture has kind of shifted to, and I'm not saying this like in a bad way, but sometimes I might see a 15-year-old who has constantly been in trouble. I've got the 15-year-old and their parents there and I might say to that 15-year-old who is complaining or you know, I've actually had a child tell me well, they didn't ask me what I wanted for breakfast and they didn't. You know all these things.
Speaker 3:And I look at the child. I'm like I don't know if you realize that the whole world isn't really about you. You are, like one of the most important things in our world, but the whole world isn't about you. And I think they give me this look like I'm the first person in the world to have ever told them this. You know, like I'm the first person in the world telling you life isn't fair and everything you want doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:So you know, as adults that's kind of like it sounds so negative to say it, but as adults that's kind of like it sounds so negative to say it, but as adults, I think that it is incumbent upon us to instill that in our kids, because it creates a life outlook, Like it creates the whole outlook for life. On whether or not you have this mentality of all these things are happening to me or I can be in control of something. And so it's important for kids to know things will inevitably happen to you. Bad things are going to happen to you. They will happen to everybody, even people who you think are living a perfect life. Bad things will happen to them and whether they pull the this isn't fair or I've got to figure out how to overcome this. That's a life outlook, and so it's important for us to teach kids that, and I think a lot of people are missing that. A lot of people are missing the ability to overcome bad things as they happen. Adversity is 100% going to happen. It's just how you handle it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's true and a lot of people in situations don't realize it. Well, I guess Tom and I did a pretty good job. We told our kids there were three kinds of fair in the world. It was the World Fair, the State Fair and the County Fair. And the World Fair is not around anymore. Just this yeah, life isn't fair. But you probably see some of the whining. You know that a lot of us don't see. And then you probably see some of the things that are terribly unfair and yet hard to do anything about. Well, what are you most proud of in your day to day?
Speaker 3:What are you most proud of in your day-to-day? I think I'm most proud of having the opportunity to serve. So I've been in state government for a long time and I know that that can sometimes have bad connotations in and of itself, but I really do. I have a heart for service and I'm proud of and it gives me a ton of satisfaction that you know. People come to me with a problem and I'm going to do it in accordance with the law, but I still get to be a problem solver sometimes. So I'm proud of that. I'm proud of the fact that you know I've just had this opportunity to serve and help people overcome problems in their life.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know you talk about the study and the research and the ways in which we research have changed. Do you like that or do you find that you still have the classic books you go to or the? You know? There's just so much more information at our fingertips now that you know that can be an overload. How do you handle that aspect of your career in person?
Speaker 3:Well, there's no going back, so let's just adjust to where we are now. Well, there's no going back, so let's just adjust to where we are now. And I am not afraid to say that Google research is. You know, it's not the absolute worst. What you have to worry about, what you have to worry and hope that we're training our kids to do now, is sort through the information, because access to information is there.
Speaker 3:It has never been easier to get information than it is right now. And so you know, you may have an attorney that's going to Google something, to start with at least, like hey, let's Google and see what this is. But then you have to know how to digest it and know how to sort through. All right, these articles are leading me here, let's go there. So I like having easy access to information. I like that the public has easy access to information. But it's always a matter of do they know how to digest it, do they know how to put the information to good use, and also not just kind of going down the rabbit hole of believing everything that's available in that information. So I like it. I do. I'm in my office, you can see. Let's see over here. You see the books.
Speaker 3:Yes, so I do still have the books, but I think the computer gets the majority of our time. It's, you know, it's easier, it is easier to, and of course we have, you know, great legal resources where all those books they're actually in a legal service that we use. So don't? I don't want it to sound like I'm like a Google judge or anything like that. I don't want it to sound like that's the extent of my research, but I think the computer definitely has changed the way that we research things.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just, I like what you say because it is figuring out how to digest and then use it, if you're just pulling all information in and it just gets that overload and then you don't apply it. You know, my degree many, many years ago was applied communications and I wish that they would go back to that because it's like, yeah, you have all these different aspects of communications, but applied, yeah.
Speaker 3:And the most successful people now, I think, will be the ones that know how to digest the information, because we've got to be our own. You know we're competing with AI and artificial intelligence is there. Artificial intelligence can consume the data, put it together logically and make it work, but we as humans have to do that too. So I think that you're exactly right, and I know that I guess education as a whole might have changed a little bit toward that. It had to, you know it has to have. It can't be the same methods of teaching that we used to have, because learning is different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. We've been in some conferences with some professors and there was one in particular that did a presentation about AI, and she was saying that one of the things that she does to students is she gives them an assignment and says I want you to use nothing but AI, and so they completely do it that way. And then she comes back and says all right, now I want you to take apart everything within this and find some hard research that backs up what AI says. And she says it shows them that it's not always right and it makes them angry. She says they get literally angry that they trusted something, and I think to me that is an incredible way to teach, because you've given permission for it and now you're like disprove it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great lesson and the fact that the students are experiencing frustration over that and you know I trusted that how was that not right? That definitely is a major lesson in sorting through the information.
Speaker 2:I really, really liked it. You know you have to deal with trust issues. People trusting you to be what you're supposed to be on your day in and day out, and then all the things that you're involved in personally require trust. Are you a trusting person immediately? Do you have a trust meter? Do you know how to gauge whether you can trust a situation?
Speaker 3:meet or do you know how to gauge whether you can trust a situation? I guess you asked me earlier something I'm proud of. That could be another thing that I'm proud of, but I'm also grateful for it. I have a very strong ability to read people I always have and of course you can't judge a book by its cover that's not anything about what's happening. But I can read a situation. I can walk into a room. I can you know? See, there's 10 people, this is what's going on, this is what's happening.
Speaker 3:I have the innate ability to read what's happening, figure it out and kind of know where the problems are, know what we're looking for, and I think that I think that that sometimes causes me to not be trusting because I am, I guess, evaluating. I feel like I'm always evaluating in the background, kind of what's going on. But the majority of my not being overly trusting probably comes from the prosecutor background, Just seeing and experiencing so many things. But at the same time, you know, my husband, my dad, would always tell me you know, Jessica, you're a little too trusting in that. Do I lock my car every single time? No, I do not. And have I been to Walmart at, you know, 1030 at night because I needed something by myself. Yes, I have been. So I am able it doesn't affect me like just in everyday living. I am able to forget about the fact that bad things happen and can happen and I just live my life.
Speaker 3:I don't watch too many videos that cause you to be scared to be in public. I don't watch too many videos that cause you to be scared to be in public. You know I don't do that. I'm able to put it out of my mind and live life casually, but not too casually. So I'm very thankful for that. But I think the question about trusting it is so important for me to earn and keep people's trust that I sometimes probably do overshare, even from the bench, like even if I'm in a case and I'm talking to the parties, I may let them know hey, this is the one.
Speaker 3:I think that on this issue, this is how I will rule. But I need to go look at this other issue and figure out what the law says. But the only way I think you can really keep people's trust is to be committed to the law. There are times when I have to rule in a way that is not what my feelings might say, and so. But you know the public should want that in a judge. The public should absolutely want a judge that will rule with what the law says and not what the judge wanted or what you know might seem fair. I mean, that's the true commitment to the law. That brings consistency and it really upholds the whole judicial system Like people can trust. You know well, I trust that she was studying and she did what the law said to do, not just what people might want to do.
Speaker 3:So, there have been times where I've been required to rule in a way that I might not have wanted to, and people always say if everybody leaves the courtroom and nobody's happy, that's when the judge did a good job. So I know.
Speaker 2:I know. Okay, so how do you protect that heart? I mean you could be torn up half of your week listening to and I mean you. A lot of times I ask the question to people do you listen with your heart or your head? And a lot of times you have to put your head completely, whether you want to or not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, you better be listening with both. I am listening with both because you can't to me. I can't turn either off. But there are times where you know I have to overcome the disappointment of this is what the law says, even though this might not seem like the solution I would have wanted, even though this might not seem like the solution I would have wanted. I mean, I'll kind of give an example of something.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, you might have a case where the parties are in front of you, they have argued, everything there is to argue, and you go back and look and this is how the law says this case is to be proven. You know you have to meet this burden, you have to do this, and if the people did not meet that burden, then I'm obligated to rule in a certain way. There have been times where I am obligated to dismiss a case that I might not have otherwise wanted to dismiss. But that is just a commitment, and I will say that that commitment is the hardest part of being a judge that you cannot expect or anticipate. Until you're in that moment you think, okay, I can do this, I can be a judge. I've been a great lawyer, you know I can do this Absolutely, but when you're in that moment of you know the law says this it's not what I want, it's not what I would have, you know, necessarily picked, it's not the what seems like the best case scenario, that commitment to upholding the law is the hardest part.
Speaker 2:So how do you take care of Jessica? What do you do? You leave sometimes and go to a workout and punch a punching bag, or I mean, how do you?
Speaker 3:I will not say that my, my yard looks fabulous, but I definitely can see that I'm getting to the to my flower era. So you know I'm doing flowers and I'm working outside. I don't I don't necessarily have I enjoy outdoors, but I don't necessarily have a hobby that like I enjoy outdoors. But I don't necessarily have a hobby that like has kind of stuck around forever, but I just I just stay busy with other things. You will also. I am a judge that you will see around town shopping. So you know, if you see me in TJ Maxx or Ross and I seem disconnected, it's probably because I am just shopping through the aisles aimlessly, you know, not thinking about anything from work that day.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So where do you go when you need to solve a problem? Do you have a mentor? Do you have just a way to reground?
Speaker 3:And we're a match in that. So Russ is definitely my go-to person. You know, jessica, you need to simmer down or you need to. You know he will joke and say that he's been on trial for the last 20 years of his life, but that's not true. He's the only person that will keep me grounded and, you know, bring me back to reality when I'm a little, too, you know, hot-tempered about something. But professionally we like I'm very thankful to have come in at a time Our circuit has had a lot of judge turnover, so we've got many judges that retired, we've got new judges that came on and it has been a pleasure to be able to call on judges who have retired, call on their experience.
Speaker 3:You know I used to practice in front of these judges, so it feels different sometimes that I'm calling them as more of a mentor in a role that they have served. So, but I'm very blessed to have that opportunity to still call on them and say, hey, this scenario is coming up. You know, how would you handle these situations? Or even just administrative things, administrative things about running the office, or do you find that court works better when you're doing it this way or this way? Both our judges now who are my colleagues and the ones that have retired, have been amazing. We can call on each other and we solve problems together, not specific to a particular case, just in general. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are you a self-talker?
Speaker 3:Explain.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Do you talk yourself up or do you talk badly to yourself?
Speaker 3:I'm like yes I think I am. I didn't, I didn't know that was a thing, but yes, I think the answer to that is yes yeah, that's a thing.
Speaker 2:That's a thing and you're supposed to, you know, say encouraging things, and a lot of people do gratitude journals and that kind of thing to kind of refocus themselves. It sounds like you might not have time for that.
Speaker 3:Well, I was going to say my self-talk is a lot less focused than what you described. My self-talk is running through a to-do list, like in my head, you know, like really quick, while I'm getting ready in the mornings hey, you have to do this, this, this. Or you know, jessica, you've got this or you walk into the big room and there's 300 people there and you know it's going to be an incredibly long day and I quickly tell myself just get it done and sit down, just get it done.
Speaker 2:Wow, do you hate reality TV that goes into the courtroom and that shows, because it gives us all this picture that may or may not be accurate.
Speaker 3:So I guess maybe I'm indifferent. I don't feel strongly toward it. I've always been a Law Order fan, so I am a Law order girl, which is not reality TV, but I will watch a law and order marathon with the best of them. The fact that I said law and order marathon it probably dates me, so I need all the listeners to know that I'm not as old as that sounded, so I'm definitely not as old as that sounded.
Speaker 3:I caught it when I said it out loud. But so, and when I would talk to a jury of an IRA, I would tell them I'd say, hey, how many people want to watch Law Order? They're like yeah. How many people know that that's not real life? How many people know that they have solved a crime? Done this, done this, done this all within 50 minutes? Everybody's like yeah, and Everybody's like yeah. And I'm like, well, I just I need everybody to realize that we're going to, we're about to enter real life and so, while that's enjoyable and some of the things will, might help you think through the problems you will encounter we're about to enter real life and I need everybody to just be on board with that. So so I've I've I've loved shows like that for a long time.
Speaker 3:I don't have a reality show that necessarily that I follow my husband Russ does. I'm outing his business. He's always been a fan of, you know, On Patrol Live or the court cams, and so I'll hear it going on in the background at the house and I catch bits and pieces of it, or if something is really hilarious, he'll call me over to watch it, but that's not something we necessarily watch together. I've had enough. I've had enough for the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I mean I have kids that are involved in things that are portrayed in drama and I mean you can't even sit and watch it with Tori because she'll go. That was not the way it happens. And you're like, yeah, we know that, but there's times that it has such a public impact that it can make your job more difficult. To have to undo some of that, I guess. But what do you think is the biggest waste of time, both personally and professionally? Both maybe that is a waste of time for you, but a waste of time that you see people generally do.
Speaker 3:Honest, I mean, if I were being 100% truthful, and I find myself guilty of it too. Social media is probably the largest waste of our time. Like it, it consumes us. We find ourselves attached to the phone and scrolling. So, yeah, if I'm waiting in line somewhere, I'm doing it also, you know, but away from the fact that you may be in a doctor's office or that you may be standing in line. If you're away from that, it just consumes you. It consumes you, you know, and things that need to be done, things that you even wanted to be done, don't get done because it consumes us. So I think that probably is our biggest waste of time, that we've really got to work on some discipline on how to manage that in life, Because it will it will consume too much of our lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not always true. I mean you, you see all these things that you think, but they're just a perception of someone's reality that they want to put out there. Do you? Are phones and things a problem in the courtroom? I mean, do?
Speaker 3:you. So phones are not allowed in our courthouse. There's been an administrative order for quite some time that phones are not allowed. So while I personally am not disturbed by phones if they were there, there's just a standing rule no phones allowed. So but I will occasionally I mean we, you know, if I'm in a traffic court day and people need to bring in proof of their insurance or proof of their vehicle registration, they're like it's on my phone, I'll hand out a phone pass, like a hall pass. I'm like go get your phone, bring it to me. They'll bring it to me and show me, because that's how you know, that's how we live now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we live now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I might still have an insurance card in my car, but not everybody else does so you know, it's just, it's on our phones, so I don't. I don't find it being a distraction, because it's just not something we allow, I think, and it's different across the state. Some places do and some places don't allow it places do and some places don't allow it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Isaac lost his phone and then it ended up being stolen and he kind of was watching it ping around places and he was without for a week or so and in that time he had to fly. Well, your ticket and everything, your check-in and all of that is on the phone, and so he was having to kind of work with us to help him do some of those things. But he said he loved being without it. He said there was this freedom of just I can't If you take a trip without it.
Speaker 3:I can imagine that is absolute freedom, because if you think about going on a trip, whether it's airport or anything, you're constantly looking at the phone to see like where do I go when I get off the plane? Where do I go here? I recently did a cruise and I mean I'm looking on the phone to see, oh well, what this activity, this activity, so it would be, it would be very different, but you would be forced to pay attention, right, yeah, like look around you. You would be forced to that is so true.
Speaker 2:All right, let's go down that road of going on a cruise. So is this something you enjoyed? Are you a cruise family?
Speaker 3:family? No, I do not think we have been. So I have a special needs brother who turned 40 last year and he's always been a big Disney person. We have done Disney before and he had always asked. He would say, sissy, can we do a Disney cruise? I want to do a Disney cruise, I want to do a Disney cruise. And then he would always also say I want to do a Disney cruise with me and my friends, I want to do a Disney cruise with me and my friends. So I convinced my parents and the whole family that we're going to do this for his 40th birthday and we did. Oh wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my brother Ross.
Speaker 3:So yeah, my brother Ross, three of his very close friends my mom, dad we took off and we did a Disney cruise and it was amazing. So we didn't. That's not something that we normally do, but we probably will do it again in the future. It was great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so cool. All right, so that probably has having someone in your family that you needed to pay attention to in a different manner. Has that made you part of who you are?
Speaker 3:um, I would say yes, uh, and, and having so, I had two young, I'm the oldest, know big, just the fact that I'm the oldest sister, that can probably tell all the psychologists a lot about my personality, without even, without even beating me, the fact that I'm the big sister. But I think, yes, that. So, having Ross in my life, I've always cared and had a different outlook, a different perspective on things, cared and had a different outlook, a different perspective on things. But it's also something else, just to keep me real, you know, like to keep me real about what's important, what's not important, recognizing what we think is important.
Speaker 3:I don't sometimes it feels like a curse, but I have a ton of, like self-awareness, not that I always make the right decisions or do the right thing, you know, yes, I mess up, but I have a ton of self-awareness, not that I always make the right decisions or do the right thing, you know, yes, I mess up, but I have a ton of self-awareness about, okay, this is not really important, I'm just feeling this is important because blah, blah, blah, and so it just gives you a different outlook on life and it's an outlook that I sometimes probably frustratingly to others, try to portray on others Like why don't you see it this way too? You know so, but even I recognize people, don't?
Speaker 3:see things the same way because of our life experiences. So, yeah, I think having Ross in my life definitely shapes some things all for the better, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, you're taking what you have, what you deal with and have dealt with, and then we all look through the eyes of whatever we've experienced and um, so that that is a pretty good self-awareness. What do you define as being strong? I mean I, I immediately think you know, um, you, you're a strong woman, you've got strong opinions, you're in leadership roles. So I can give you my definition of strong.
Speaker 3:What's yours. So I think mine is largely made up of the amount of self-discipline somebody has. So if I look at a person that is very disciplined in their life, I mean in many things, not necessarily just one thing, but in many things if somebody is very disciplined in their life, I just look at that person with admiration of wow, they are so strong. But then I mean, of course, you know, you can throw in all the other things, like being physically strong, emotionally strong and all that, but if I recognize self-discipline in someone else, I automatically have admiration that that's a very strong person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good, and you've probably watched a lot of leader positions around you, both personally and professionally. What's your idea of a good leader?
Speaker 3:A servant leader, that's. You know. I've joked with people that I have always wanted to be the leader that I will take the trash out together on the end of the day. We'll come in in the morning and do whatever we need to do. I have recognized that in other leaders in my life that I've had the opportunity to be with and I knew that was something that was just a priority for me and it's easy to recognize. It's easy to recognize people who will lead by, by serving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that Tom is that kind of leader and from my perspective and and I watch I mean you know, a lot of times people will say, oh wow, I mean he's in charge, and it's like, yeah, he he'll, he'll empty the trash. Oh wow, I mean he's in charge and it's like, yeah, he he'll, he'll empty the trash. And you know, it's like you don't want to discredit the role but at the same time he can get things done by having people do it with him, and I think that's how he leads in our family. It's how our kids have seen and grown up and and they've assumed leadership roles. But there's still a lot of things that you in a leader position can just really make your brain hurt and you surround yourself with some people that can help with those aspects. What subject makes your brain ache?
Speaker 3:makes your brain ache. So I think if you've ever been a part of I don't admit probably anybody in a leadership role has done this you know the personality studies that they put you through, where they tell you, hey, you're either you know all your numbers and your colors are in this area, that kind of thing what really, I guess, grinds me or gets me just all kinds of upset.
Speaker 3:And it's funny that I say it but it's bureaucracy, like the idea of processes, that I don't understand. And I recognize that I work in a courtroom and that people are having to fill out forms and that you know, I mean, I recognize that, but just the idea of unnecessary processes, oh my goodness, I can't stand the thought of it, I can't stand participating in it, I can't stand doing it. You know so what it's. It's funny, I mean it, and and so I try to be very for all the people who have come into my courtroom and you think, oh my gosh, that was way too much bureaucracy. Please, I need a feedback box because I want to shrink that down as much as possible just to take care of business.
Speaker 3:I know there's, there is a level of it that you just simply cannot avoid. But in the multiple different studies that I've counted, those personality things that I've done, and I see it on a daily basis If there is some process in place that I can't understand the purpose of the process, or that it seems to be a useless process, or that the process serves like there are no results that come about because of the process, oh I can't stand it, it irritates me.
Speaker 2:That's funny. And yeah, I mean you're right, there's some of that you can't do anything about, no matter how high up you are on the establishment, it just doesn't. It's not something you can fix. That's funny. What always makes you smile? You have a day that can be really, really tough, but yet there's something that's always going to make you smile. What might that be?
Speaker 3:I think family, yeah, so it's just family. It's coming home and you know, seeing Russ or talking to my brother, it's family powerful woman in a profession and you bring that to your relationship.
Speaker 2:Sometimes that's hard for people to handle. So what kind of relationship pointers would you have for somebody who is trying to fulfill their role as a woman? That would be helpful, or maybe even advice that you would have given yourself, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
Speaker 3:So, while it absolutely I'm aware that it's not the popular opinion, I believe in you know Christ's role for the man and woman and if you are serving and seeing yourself as a woman in that role, you can be successful. But it's not necessarily about the you know, oh, I'm a female. This because if you're, if you, if you focus on being the kind of woman that Christ would want you to be, then then it just fits like every part of your life fits. And yeah, you know, a strong personality is gonna, it's gonna get you in hot water sometimes, you know, but quick temper and those things, absolutely they're going to, you know, they're going to cause a rub at times. But if you can, if you can put yourself aside and go back to what kind of you know what kind of Christian woman servant should I be in this scenario and put yourself aside, then it's going to work. It's going to work in every relationship.
Speaker 2:How about defining servant for me?
Speaker 3:How do you define it? Being selfless and selfless, being selfless, putting others' needs ahead of your own and just really paying attention to needs. If you're paying attention to needs and then working toward meeting somebody else's needs, that's serving.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you have to practice listening?
Speaker 3:I don't think I practice. I have to sometimes make myself continue listening. So there I would be. You know, at times I find myself I have listened Like I listen intently. The lines on my face actually are very good I listen intently, I listen intently, I listen intently, speak intently, and as I look at photos of myself, like even when I'm not unhappy, I appear to look unhappy and that's because I'm listening very intently. So I listen. I don't have to practice listening. But you know, maybe there comes a certain time in the conversation or whatever it might be, where I have to force myself to continue listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've already gone to the judgment or the decision. Even personally, I mean, I can like there are times when you are listening and it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you can't say that, right, you can't say it with your face, you can't say it with the words, so, but in relationships, you are in relationships all day and then you're in relationships at night. Relationships all day and then you're in relationships at night. Do you have a sign between you and Russ that's like I'm peopled out, I'm listened out, I can't do anymore.
Speaker 3:No, actually no. I think that I think I've toned it down a little bit. I've always been the one where we come home and I'm the one about straight 10 minutes. Let me tell you about my day. You know, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and it's just unloading everything. I don't think that that happens as much as it used to. So maybe the fact that I am talking to you know hundreds of people throughout the day. Maybe I don't feel the need to let me just unload everything, but I still am. Okay, let's go through the day, let's talk it out. So I think it's probably toned down and maybe that's just, you know, getting older, I don't know. But we both still will talk it out when we get home.
Speaker 3:Not every Some days are just bad days. Everybody has bad days, but for the most part we'll still. We both will talk, Probably mostly me doing the talking.
Speaker 2:Tom and I have this thing that sometimes it's awful because he's like, he can call me and he goes. Well, you must have had a horrible day, because my day has been wicked, because we always it's like this, we don't take turns and it's. I guess it's good, because then when you both have a good day, you're having a great day, but then it's like it's hard to balance each other, because you're like me too, and we've gotten to the point now where a lot of times you can just say yeah, me too, and yes, and then we can move, move on. Um, what place would you go back to tomorrow, whether it's a physical place or a place in your mind, a place in your career? What would you go back to?
Speaker 3:I would be at the beach every day if I could. I'm a beach person, so it's hard for me not to say you know that I wouldn't be on the sand every single day say you know that I wouldn't, I wouldn't be on the sand every single day.
Speaker 2:Well, can you tell when you need an adventure, when you need to go, go do something and put your I won't say put your hand head in the sand, but maybe your toes in the sand?
Speaker 3:Um, no, I, um, and you know, Russ and I have never, we've never had the luxury of doing like many vacations. You know, vacations are a lot, so I can survive without it and still be okay. I don't. There's not a point where I'm like, hey, I've got to go, got to get out of here, but I find excitement when I know I'm going. So I think I manage okay in that he's not required to take me every so many months, you know, and I can talk about by the beach house all that I want to talk about, but he's not getting it for me.
Speaker 2:So well, we can talk about it, and then a storm comes through and it's like, yeah, I'm good. Well, you know, we all do a lot of a lot of people do a lot of dreaming, a lot of wishing. But do you think there's a difference and I'm sure in your courtroom you might, might see this as well but do you think there's a difference between wishing and realizing your dreams, and maybe what that might be?
Speaker 3:Yes, and it's always work, that's. You know, I don't ever discredit someone who and you're right in court, I do see a lot of. I see a lot of people who might be at their lowest of lows. Maybe they're struggling with addiction, you know, maybe their whole life is falling apart for some other reason, you know. But I see people at the bottom of their rope, so to speak, and I honestly believe you know the majority of those people when they say this isn't what I want, this is not where I want to be, I want to do this, or, you know, I want to get my children back.
Speaker 3:I believe that they believe what they're saying. I don't doubt that that is what they want, but it comes down to the ability to realize it, and that's always going to be work. I mean, it's not, you know. I mean and I tell people I'm like this will be the hardest thing that you've ever done, but you can do it, and so it's just. And that looks different in every scenario, whatever it might be. But when people dream about or wish things were different, or say that they want things to be different, I believe that. I believe that's an actual desire that they have, but making it happen is a whole other thing, and the connecting piece to me is work.
Speaker 2:Wow, that is a very concrete pathway between those two words. I like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it doesn't. I mean sometimes you know it's the worst of the worst scenario, whether it's whether it's addiction or whatever it might be. But then I mean, even you know, personally, I mean I think about, okay, I can dream about, you know, having that back bedroom cleaned up, or I can dream about this, but say that I really want this, I'd really like to paint that other room, and I believe you know, yes, that is a desire, but in order for it to realize itself, there's got to be work, and so it has to be. It has to be a willingness and commitment to put in the work to make it happen, whether it's something small or something big.
Speaker 2:Do people tell you, Jessica, that you are a no-nonsense kind of person?
Speaker 3:I think so. Yes, but I'm also pretty fun. But I think you can be no-nonsense and fun. You can be both those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. If you could say a special thank you to someone in your life, who would that be and what would thank you be?
Speaker 3:I recently lost my dad, in January, and so, yeah, that will be. This is the part where it's really hard to answer, but I think it's my dad. He instilled in me my work ethic, you know, just the desire to be an honest person and to live in all the right ways. He was an amazing Christian man in all the right ways. He was an amazing Christian man, and so he inspired me in ways that I didn't even realize that I was being inspired.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, wow. That is amazing when you start looking back and going oh, that was that pathway. Yes, well, just from my perspective, what a fabulous influence he's been. He has definitely been. If you could change one thing about the world and there's so much going on in the world today and you see kind of the underbelly of some of it so if there was one thing you could change in the world, what would it be?
Speaker 3:I might answer this question differently on any given day, but I think I would just make personal responsibility a thing again. It seems like and it is human nature for us to always have, you know, somebody else that we want to blame for something, or nothing's ever my fault. But if I could wave a magic wand, it would be to bring back personal responsibility, because if people have personal responsibility, I think it really it changes, changes the whole world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, personal responsibility would take it off of the shoulders of somebody else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, people have an expectation that the government or the church or whatever. People have an expectation that those things fix things. Those things don't fix anything, you know. They're designed to help make people better, but it's personal responsibility that really changes things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. And personal responsibility, you know it comes through living life. I mean you kind of figure out along the way. But you know I can look at your life and people can look at your life and go man, jessica, you have not had any boulders whatsoever. You are like just you've got this dream of what you're going to do, what you're going to be, you have a direction. You had the three years of school, you know, making sure and taking a load. I mean you just you had a plan. You executed boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Are there any boulders that you just hit and have to either go around or go through or deal with?
Speaker 3:I mean I guess in so my parents divorced when I was like 12. I mean, I guess in so my parents divorced when I was like 12. And that's obviously something that impacts your life. We were I mean, my parents were both amazing, but we were not a silver spoon family. We were a working family that did school shopping once a year, you know like just barely, you know kind of getting by. And so, yeah, I mean people can look from the outside and say, oh, you've had it easier, you've had this. But I consider myself just a 100% regular person that had tons of experiences some good, some bad growing up and still, you know, people still have adversity and things that go on in your life. So just regular person.
Speaker 2:If this were your platform and you could just talk about anything, any subject, loudly, and everybody would hear you and maybe make a change or put in what you say. What's your platform? What would you shout?
Speaker 3:Let's turn it around everybody and get back to God. I'm going to end it with that. Like you know, everybody, put yourself aside, let's get back to God. It's the only thing that will sustain us.
Speaker 2:There you go. If people wanted to get in touch with you for a reason, is there a way they can?
Speaker 3:Sure, so my office number is 334-358-6820. And you can call anytime. Let us know what you might need, except the folks that call about cases. Don't call about an individual case. I won't be able to talk to you by yourself about that, but for anything else that you might need, just call.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's awesome. We've talked about so many different things, jessica, and it's been fabulous. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you want to make sure that we cover before we close out?
Speaker 3:I don't think so. I appreciate it so very much. I have enjoyed it. Luckily, you're easy to talk to, so thank you. Well, good I'm glad.
Speaker 2:I have one more question, and that is if you had a superpower, any superpower, whatever superpower you'd like to choose, what would it be? You can have it for 24 hours, you can use it personally or professionally, or both, and why would it be your choice?
Speaker 3:I think mind reading. Um, because I want to. I want to test my accuracy, but I want to be able to turn it on and off, so I want you know, I I think that I'm good at reading people, so I would want to go all natural, read a situation and then turn on the mind reader to know was I right? Did I nail it?
Speaker 2:I love that. That is so funny. You're going to test yourself. You're not just going to take a freebie, you're going to test yourself. So I love it. Thank you, jessica, it has been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3:Thank you so very much. I hope you have a fabulous day.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I got my pockets full of dreams and they're busting at the seams, going boom, boom, boom to my own song.
Speaker 2:Find Stacked Keys Podcast on Spotify, soundcloud and iTunes or anywhere you get your favorite podcast listen. You'll laugh out loud, you'll cry a little, you'll cry a little, you'll find yourself encouraged. Join us for casual conversation that leads itself, based on where we take it, from family to philosophy, to work, to meal prep, to beautifully surviving life. And hey, if I could ask a big favor of you, go to iTunes and give us a five rating. The more people who rate us, the more we get this podcast out there. Thanks, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:All my dreams. Like an old song Everything will be alright.
Speaker 4:When I let myself Go with the night. Gotta stomp to my own drum. Stomp to my own song. Stomp hey. Gonna put all my boots in the room. Gotta stomp to my own drum. Stomp to my own zone Stomp hey.
Speaker 1:Ooh, ooh, ooh. Gonna sing it out loud and say it real proud. Nobody's gonna step on my cloud, cause I stomp, stomp To the beat of my big drum. I got a big drum. Whatever you do, it ain't nothing on me, cause I'momp stomp to the beat of my big drum. I got a big drum. Whatever you do, it ain't nothing on me, cause I'm doing my thing and I got the key.
Speaker 4:Stomp to my own drum. We'll see you next time. Bye.