Episode 250 -- Monica King -- From Case Files To Classrooms

What does it take to leave a two-decade career in social services and step into a university classroom with your compassion intact? We sit down with Monica King, a former case manager turned instructor in human development and family studies, to explore how real-world practice can transform how we teach, learn, and serve. Monica shares how she builds courses that prioritize student autonomy and executive function, why she invites current events and policy debates into class, and how she balances flexibility with clear boundaries when the midnight texts come in.

This conversation travels from the nuts and bolts of equitable practice to the personal ground that makes it urgent. Monica talks candidly about parenting a neurodivergent teen, measuring success by well-being rather than benchmarks, and resisting the bureaucratic impulse to say no when a humane yes keeps a family afloat. We unpack equality versus equity, the limits of “treat others as you want to be treated,” and the power of translating research into action without getting lost in academic machinery.

We also get practical about digital life: teaching discernment in a world of misinformation, valuing online friendships as real relationships, and bridging generational gaps in tech fluency. Monica’s advocacy with a local Pride group in a conservative county highlights what it looks like to hold space for difference, even when it draws heat. Through it all, her core message stays steady: care clearly, set honest boundaries, and meet people where they are so they can grow.

If you care about social services, higher education, DEI, parenting, or simply staying human in systems that make it hard, this episode offers grounded tools and a hopeful lens. Listen, share it with a friend who’s navigating a pivot, and leave us a review so more curious people can find the show.

Music "STOMP" used by permission of artist Donica Knight Holdman and Jim Huff

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Welcome to Stacked Keys Podcast. I'm your host, Amy Stackhouse. This is a podcast to feature women who are impressive in the world, are in raising a family, or who have hobbies that make us all feel encouraged. Wanna hear what makes these women passionate to get up in the morning, or what maybe they wish they'd known a little bit earlier in their lives? Grab your keys and stomp to your own drum.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

It's a great big world that I wanna see, and a whole lot of things that I wanna be. All I gotta do is count one, two, three. Whatever you do, it ain't nothing on me. Cause I'm doing my thing and I hold the key to all my walls and all my dreams.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Well, I am delighted today to introduce this guest. I met her at a conference, and um, we just found ourselves talking, and I was more and more curious about her life changes, career changes, and just just the aspects that she brings to life. So I welcome today Monica King. Hello, thank you for having me. Oh, I am delighted. Monica, right out of the gate, let it let's talk about how people know you, both professionally and personally.

From Social Services To Teaching

SPEAKER_07 1:56

Um, okay. Um, well, I um I guess I'll start with work. Um for the past two years I've been teaching um at a university, and um, and that's a new thing for me. So before that, I worked um in social services for almost 20 years. Um, so I kind of felt like that was becoming a part of my identity there for a while, uh, doing the same kind of work for so long. I was a case manager. Um and I guess personally I'm married and have two children and um live relatively close to where I grew up. I grew up in Charlotte, uh North Carolina. So kind of live in the suburbs of Charlotte still. Um, so yeah, pretty, pretty close to, you know, my parents live nearby and have some old friends around and and things like that. But um yeah, just kind of have always had a had a job that was centered around, you know, the local community and um helping people that live nearby and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Well, that's a big jump. That's a big jump from social services case manager to the classroom. You're dealing probably, I mean, you're dealing with people, but is that about the only common yeah?

SPEAKER_07 3:16

I um sort of. I mean, I was really drawn to it because of um I think doing the work I was doing at social services for so long. Um, I started finding myself helping other, you know, coworkers, new people or people that were coming into the program I was in. Um, I wasn't officially in a role where I was responsible for, you know, training or or teaching, but I found myself doing it a lot, you know, anyway. Um, people coming to me with questions, or um, you know, how do I do this or how do I use this program or whatever. And over time I started kind of just realizing like I like doing that, I like helping people, I like teaching people things, you know, and um sometimes I would kind of feel like I wish I was doing that, you know, all day instead of the work that was starting to feel kind of monotonous, you know, because I've been doing it for so long. Um, so just started kind of exploring the concept of, you know, either moving to become a trainer where I was, or I kind of got, I don't even know where the thought came to me, but um just started thinking, you know, or I could teach people, you know, who are in college and are trying to get into this kind of work. So um I kind of had a a casual interest in that for a few years and decided to go back to school um to learn more about. I got a graduate certificate in university and college teaching because I kind of wanted to see like, well, if I just take a few classes in teaching, I'll probably be able to figure out if this is something I really want to do. Um, and I loved it. So just kind of kept plugging along and and keeping my eyes open, you know, for job postings at at colleges and universities in the area until until something worked out. And um, the the program is that I teach in is human development and family studies. So most of the students I'm teaching are trying to go into that kind of work. So maybe, maybe they'll work in social services like I did, maybe they'll um work at some other kind of you know nonprofit organization or be a you know parent educator, or just there's a lot of different you know paths they can take, but um just learning about families and and how people grow and change and and how you can help support them and things like that, which was kind of the the bottom line of of the work I was doing. So now I just feel like I've kind of shifted into preparing people to do what I did for so long. So I have a lot of um, you know, examples and and stories from all my years of work to tell the students, you know, we'll talk about a lesson and then I'll think, oh, this reminds me of, you know, I used to see this at work all the time, you know. And you know, sometimes I worried, like I'm oh, they're probably rolling their eyes, like they don't want to hear that, you know. But then they tell me, like, oh, it's fascinating, you know, they think it's interesting to hear, like, how does this stuff play out in real life? So um kind of makes me feel good that, you know, I'm I'm giving them that that connection to reality. You know, sometimes just reading in a textbook is kind of like you can understand all the concepts fine and you can get an A on the test, but doing things out in the real world is you know a little different.

Bringing Real-World Practice Into Class

SPEAKER_00 6:23

So right, you can tell them about those exceptions and those, yeah, this is what we headed down the road to do, and then this entered in or that right. So I think that's really valuable, and what a resource that the university has in you because you have been in the field. Um you've probably with 20 years under your belt, 20 plus years there, saw a lot of changes and what you could do fail. And you had to keep up with that. So you've never stopped learning. So when you look at these college students, and I don't know if you have, I know you have some freshmen that come in some of the classes that you're in. Sometimes you look at them and go, uh, it's just beginning, kiddo.

SPEAKER_07 7:09

Right. Yeah. Right, exactly. Like, oh, you got a lot of, you know, and when things change, like you said, yeah, that was, you know, that was kind of a running joke. And I'm sure a lot of places are like this, but you know, we would say around the social services office, you know, like every other week something's different, you know, something's changing. The only the only thing that you can rely on is that this is going to change. You know, when we had a big overhaul or a new uh software program we had to figure out, or policies would change from either, you know, local or state or federal, you know, rules would change. And um we were constantly having to kind of shift and adapt to to the way things worked. And, you know, whenever we would complain or think this is complicated, you know, we think, don't worry, give it a few months or it'll it'll change again, you know. Don't don't stress it, you know, just kind of you gotta learn to just go with the flow and do the best you can. So um, you know, and that's one thing, I guess, without consciously planning to do it, I've just kind of realizing saying it out loud that I do with the students is I feel like I'm a very laid-back person in general. And so, you know, sometimes they'll ask me a lot of questions about, you know, assignments and should do it like this, and what what are the requirements of the structure? And I'm like, just do it, you know. Like I'm very much like, show me the show me what you've learned, you know. Like, I don't, I don't need to have like all these very strict criteria because I want you to be creative and I want you to just basically, you know, I'll give them like some general guidelines and and just say, you know, sometimes this is how it is, you know, in in life. You're given a project or something to work on and you don't have a lot to go on. And um you just you know do the best you can and and definitely invite them to ask questions, but I usually try to resist giving them too much structure because I want them to kind of make it their own. And and you know, I just always repeat like, I want you to show me what you've learned with this project, you know. So think about all the things we've learned about, think about, you know, research articles you've read, whatever, you know, sources you're using, and um, you know, in the in the long run, I hope I'm kind of somewhat training them to be flexible and you know, adaptable and not, you know, not stress too many details.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah. Well, one of the things we talked about was the current environment, the current news, and you you encourage them so much to pull in from what they read and what they know. And um, so do you find just you're you're excited to to get out there and and teach the the methods and the the research? Do you find that you look at news differently than maybe before you entered the classroom?

Change, Flexibility, And Student Autonomy

SPEAKER_07 9:58

Um yeah, I think so. I mean, we're we're all kind of um, you know, a little on edge right now with with everything going on, you know, waiting to see, you know, what's gonna change. And um up to this point, nothing I've had I haven't had to change, you know, much of anything. Um, we do get a little worried because we're like, okay, diversity and you know, the whole DEI debate and all that, you know, that's a huge part of of this subject that I'm teaching because you know, you're working with people, you can't get away from that. So um we're hoping that that doesn't really become too much of an issue because we can kind of justify it, you know, like you're going into a field where you're working with people, of course, you're going to need to be very well educated on different cultures and backgrounds. And, you know, most of our lessons revolve around, you know, how how things play out in different family structures and different, you know, um, you know, age groups and stages of development, you know, so all that kind of stuff. Um, pretty, pretty unavoidable. Um, but a lot of, you know, a lot of the time I will incorporate um kind of like current event stuff into into what we're looking at because, you know, I it's kind of a fine line to walk, you know, I don't want to get too political or too, you know, like putting my opinion in things, but um, but I do want the students to notice, you know, and pay, you know, there's too many people that just kind of sit back and say, oh, politics, I don't care about that, it's boring, or I don't, you know, especially younger people. And um I'm like, I will you guys might want to start paying attention because the kind of work that you're hoping to go into is very connected to this kind of stuff. So we look at, you know, policies and programs that are out there and how they're funded, and um, you know, the, you know, sometimes I'll have them, you know, look at a program and like talk about all the great things it does, but then I want you to also step back and look at, you know, where does it fall short and where are the gaps and um you know how could this program be improved and you know, things like that. Excuse me. So there are, you know, there's a lot to criticize, and then there's a lot to, you know, kind of bring their attention to um when it comes to that kind of thing. So I try to bring that that that real piece in as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Well, and you kind of have something to relate that maybe some professors do not, in the sense of you're walking out on a limb, doing something new, learning. And and I mean, one of the things that struck me about you at the conference that we went to is that you came and walked right in there by yourself and um sat down and got to know people all around you and had the conversations and the exchanges. Are you able to kind of relate in a way to the students that maybe you didn't know you would be able to?

SPEAKER_07 12:46

Um, yeah, probably because I feel like I feel like I've been in school pretty much. Well, you know, I got my bachelor's degree and then I went into work, worked for um, I don't even know how many years until I went, and then I decided to go back to school. So while I was still working, um I did a mass my master's degree in human services, you know, while I was working. Um I that was it's probably about 15 years. I'm trying to remember the timing. Uh 10, 12, round in there years after after I, you know, uh graduated with my bachelor's, I started working on my master's. And then um, and then shortly after that is when I started thinking about you know moving into another area. So um, and then when COVID hit, I kind of was like, this is a great time to do more online school. So that's when I got that uh graduate certificate. And and then I also did a second master's in education um during that time as well. And then I'm just even in in between degrees, I I was always the kind of person that would just sign up for a class or two at you know, community college or whatever. Just I don't know, I just felt like I want to learn something, you know. Like I I like I like being a student, I guess. Um and you know, I would always joke around and say, if I could find a job where somebody would just pay me to just take classes, you know, like that would be so great. That would be my dream. You know, yeah. Some people are like, I can't wait, you know. And when I did my bachelor's, I was I was like a lot of young people where I was like, I can't wait to be done with school and I have to write papers anymore and all that, but but then I missed it. So yeah, so sometimes I kind of uh I don't know, sometimes I wonder if I relate too hard to the students, you know, when they when they complain about assignments or something. I'm like, yeah, I know that you know, um, you know, a lot of students don't like group work and things like that. And I I immediately think of myself as a student. I'm like, I know I hated it when we got assigned to to a group and everyone, everyone in the group doesn't contribute, you know, things like that. But then I have to kind of put on the teacher hat and say, like, but it's good for you to work together, you know, and to try to problem solve and and coordinate your schedules and all that. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

And go ahead, sorry. I'm sorry, you can relate that because you've been in the world and you know that everybody in the group doesn't participate, right? Yeah, gets the credit for something that you seriously held them up and did.

News, Policy, And DEI In HDFS

SPEAKER_07 15:11

Mm-hmm. And and you know, here again, that's another life lesson of sometimes it's like that in your in your work as well, you know, when you're when you're working with other people, you know, there's been times you work really hard on something and then you know, you give it to your boss, and then they go to a meeting and present it and they don't even mention that somebody else made it, you know, like and you're sitting there like everybody's that's happened to me, you know, and everybody's complimenting this presentation that your boss is delivering, and everybody's like, Oh, this is great. And she's just going, Thank you, you know, and you're like, Really? You know, I'm over here, I made it, you know. So, you know, sometimes you just have to keep your mouth shut and you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, yeah. Your boss keeps their job, you keep yours. That's kind of right. Well, if you could help somebody, anybody succeed at one thing, what what would it be? You know, if you think of your students or you think of your kids, um, think of yourself or your friends. One thing, what would you help somebody succeed in?

SPEAKER_07 16:11

I feel like my probably the biggest thing I always try to in all those areas um is just to be compassionate. Like I try to um, you know, when I'm working with the students, and one thing I've hopefully installed instilled in my kids is, you know, to try to kind of put yourself in the other person's shoes as much as you can, you know, like try to be empathetic over sympathetic whenever you whenever possible. Um and that probably has to do with, you know, with all the the years of working with, you know, so people who were in bad situations, you know, struggling either economically or things going on with their family members or whatever. So um, you know, just try to always remember, you know, if somebody's being rude, they're probably stressed out, you know, or they probably don't feel good or you know, whatever. Um, try not to take it personally. And it could be hard if someone's, you know, yelling, cussing you out, you know. Um, but you know, if your role is to help them or to try to, you know, uh connect them to something in some way, you know, sometimes you have to kind of, and it's and it's a very fine line between being like, you know, walked over, doormat, you know, kind of um letting people talk to you, you know, people say like, don't let people treat you that way. And sometimes like, yeah, in general, I agree, you know, in like your personal relationships. Um, but at the same time, you know, try to try to remember people people are going through things, you know. So um just be compassionate.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

So you kind of mentioned something that made me think of the word boundaries, and a lot of times that is such a hot little word and means something to treat people differently all across the board. Have you struggled with boundaries and and putting them in place? And or is that just always been yeah?

SPEAKER_07 18:02

Probably it's probably an ongoing, um, especially now with you know the role I have now, I'm very um I try to, you know, respond quickly, like when students email me and I I made a Google Voice number to like give them, and I'm like, you could text me, you know, and some some of the other professors and instructors I've talked to are just like, oh no, you know, I wouldn't give them access to me personally like that, you know. And because I'm new, you know, some people are just kind of like look at me like, oh, you'll learn, you'll learn to to, you know, make better boundaries than that. But um, you know, and I've had students text me at midnight, asking me random questions, you know, and I have to, if I see it, I have to fight the urge, you know, to answer right then because I'm like, my phone is right beside me. I did just read it, you know. Um, I kind of have to, you know, force myself to answer it in the morning. Because if you don't, they're gonna text you all through the night regularly, you know. Yeah. So uh yeah, so sometimes that's you know, that's a thing I have to be careful of, you know. It's like I want to respond quickly, especially if it's a simple question, but um, I also want to help reinforce to them, like you need to respect people's, you know, people's uh time and things like that. You know, I know some some of the professors have told me, you know, I don't, you know, even though we don't have strict like, you know, nine to five schedules, they've said, you know, I won't respond to stuff after hours, you know, I'll wait till the next morning or whatever. So maybe, you know, maybe I'll get there in a few years. But so far, I'm so far I pretty much respond, you know, as soon as I see something. Um and I'm kind of having a constant debate with myself, like, should I be doing this? You know, I'm sure they the students seem to appreciate it, but it might get out of hand, you know. Um so we'll see how well, I guess we'll see how it goes in the next few years if I continue to do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Well, as you were as you're Children were growing up. I mean, they're they're grown now, right?

SPEAKER_07 20:04

Uh well, my youngest is 13 and uh oldest is 19, but they both still feel like kids to me, like little kids.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, but I mean, well, that's still a lot of mom responsibility, um, still involvement. So, so how do you balance? But I mean, the social services world is a tough balance, too. So, what how how have you figured out how to balance motherhood, you know, and and career?

Lifelong Learning And Wearing Both Hats

SPEAKER_07 20:33

Um, pretty well. And when my oldest was young, my husband and I had to do a lot of um, you know, schedule adjustments and and balancing, you know, work schedules to try to you know pay less on child care and work different shifts. And and you know, that was that was kind of rough there for a few years. But then as as things, you know, worked out, they started school, and you know, there's a little more um, you know, easier path with scheduling. It worked out a little better. Um, you know, one thing I think that helped me with in social services was, you know, it could, it was very um draining and kind of difficult to hear, you know, awful situations that families were in and things like that. You know, all day at work I was usually hearing people's, you know, people's sad stories or you know, people crying and stressing about things. Um and in a way, it kind of made me feel more um, I guess, grateful or or um appreciative, you know, like I'm what I'm going, you know, nobody's perfect. You know, we might have drama going on in our own lives or whatever, but um, but I would, you know, I don't want to say I would compare to the things I heard, but in a way I'd be like, I love you guys, you know what I mean? Like I'm so glad we're not having to, you know, not to say that we were better, but just like, you know, we we aren't dealing with some of the the harsher things that some people are dealing with. And it kind of puts things in perspective, you know, when when you come home. So um I've always just kind of been more focused on, you know, when we are together, spending time together, we don't even have to be doing anything too structured, you know, even if we're just sitting around looking at our own devices or, you know, watching TV or whatever. Like I just sometimes think like we all like each other enough to all be in the same room and spend time together, and that's that's a win, you know. Like there's there's some family members that don't talk to each other and and can't, you know, they have a lot going on. So um we have a lot going on too, but but we still get along, so I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Yeah, well, I mean, and I get what you're saying. I mean, it's not to to compare, but it does, you know, when you doing gratitude journals and all that kind of stuff is pretty um talked about these days, but just even having the thoughts cross your mind of oh, I'm really grateful. You know, when my kids were young, we had a babysitter and she um reminded me when she came to visit us one time that um I made the comment as a young mom to her that I really just hoped that when my kids were grown that they liked me and I liked them, and that we were still, you know, in relationship with one another. And she looked at me and she goes, Well, I guess you consider yourself having made it like that. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, actually that's that was a goal, and yeah, we're there. So um, now I could blow it tomorrow because I put my opinion out there and it'd be right. But um, but you know, it's just you've you've learned these things in your life that you can apply, but in the profession that you're in now, and the profession that you brought into your current day, you have to do some protecting of your own heart. Because if you're a heart thinker feeler or a head thinker feeler, where do you fall? And I actually heard the other day that um people there there's this whole thing I haven't had a chance to look yet, but people also are a gut thinker and uh you know, there's different parts of the body that actually you think with instead of your brain.

Compassion, Boundaries, And Burnout

SPEAKER_07 24:18

So where do where do you fall? Um I feel like probably kind of in the middle of of kind of the head and heart because you know, I can be sometimes very um like logic-based and analytical, and like, okay, let's approach this from what makes the most sense and what the evidence is, and you know, um let's get all the information we can, you know, but then I definitely um consider you know, earlier when I was talking about being compassionate, you know, I also try to always remember what feelings are going on, you know, like we can look at all the logic we want, but human feelings are not logical most of the time, you know. So um, yeah, definitely, you know, kind of have to try to find a middle ground with those because um, you know, just think of any problem that that comes up, you know, you can kind of attack it with like, well, here's here's what's gonna fix it. You gotta do XYZ, you know, but XYZ might be very difficult emotionally for someone to do, or you know, just they don't have the skills or whatever to do those things. And um, that's one thing that would come up a lot, especially in the social services world, because you know, a lot of the social workers and people that would work more directly with the families would, you know, kind of give them a list of here's what you need to do, you know, like you here's the problem we see that you have, here's what we want you to do to fix it, you know, and people's lives are not that clear cut, you know. So um it could be, you know, it could be all emotion-based, you know, because from the from the our side, the agency side, we might look at it like, why don't you just do this simple thing, you know, um, and then we'll get off your back, you know. But um, it's not always that simple for people because of whatever reason, their level of education or their, like I said, their feelings, it could be like an emotionally traumatic thing for them to do, or um, you know, I think a lot more people than we realize struggle with like executive executive functioning skills, you know, like we're like just put it on your calendar and do it, you know. And that's that's a lot to ask, some people, you know. So um, you know, it's just it's just those little, and that's when kind of compassion comes into play. It's like just because you made it made me a list of tasks doesn't mean next time I see you, I'm gonna have them done and that's gonna be the end of it. You know, there's a whole lot more complexity in there when you're talking about humans. So it's just kind of always finding that balance of trying to support people to to help them get there, you know, in a way that works for them instead of just prescribing, you know, things that they need to do.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah. Well, and here in the classroom, same thing. Of like, you know, you you said executive function and functions, and I started thinking about that today is even more confusing because it's like, well, do I put that on my Google Calendar? Do I put that on my paper calendar? Do I put that on you know, you know, I mean you have all these options, none of which are wrong, but what works for you. What works, yeah, very, very different. Um what's the thing you fear the most? So when you lay down at night and that last thought flashes through Monica's mind.

SPEAKER_07 27:37

Um I guess that's kind of a big one. My I haven't really talked about it much, but my youngest, my 13-year-old, is um he's has autism and he's intellectually uh disabled. So um he's a super happy, you know, outgoing social butterfly type of kid, which sometimes you know throws people off. But um I guess one of the things that pops up in my mind often is like, how's his life gonna be? And what if something happens to me and my husband, what's gonna happen to him, you know. So um, I mean, I know there's like legal things I need to get going, you know, to set that up to but even, you know, even with all that in place, that that kind of scares me as far as, you know, um, because you know, you talked about your hopes and dreams, you know, for your family. And I just hope that we like each other and we still talk to each other and all that. And that's kind of what I've always thought too with my kids is that I just I just want us to like each other, be around each other, be happy, be generally content with our lives, you know. Um, you know, they used to ask me at his IEP meetings at school, like, well, what are your goals for him or what are your you know, dreams for him? And I'm like, I just want him to be happy, I don't want him to feel like, you know, life is really hard or you know, whatever. Like I just want him to like have a decent life, basically. And that's some people might say, Well, that's a low bar, you know, but it's it's really not, it's kind of a high bar. A lot of people are, you know, not really all that happy in general. So um, you know, they expected me to say, like, oh, I want him to be able to read on a certain level and do this kind of math. And I'm like, I don't care about all that. You know, those things might contribute to him being, you know, happier and and more comfortable in life, but whatever needs to happen for him to be happy is what you know is what I'm worried about. So um, so yeah, I guess I just, you know, I try to think of like in the future, you know, I just if I could take a sneak peek into the future, you know, I would just like to see like they're doing all right, they're not struggling too, too hard, you know, and they're both kids, they're you know, they're just just generally, generally mostly happy, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Um that you say that whatever needs to happen happens. Yeah, that's the way you teach too, it sounds like of like the project, whatever you need to do. And so it's almost like that's your kind of path to taking all the other resources and plugging them in to get you down that path. So that's really interesting. So do you get mad sometimes, Monica? I mean, I know with the with having someone who has and you can get so frustrated with society, how do you find yourself there sometimes? And then, you know, looking at the you've got all these opportunities here and you're blowing it. And I just wish, you know, do you find yourself there sometimes?

Parenting, Perspective, And Gratitude

SPEAKER_07 30:47

Yeah, I mean, it's it's hard not to, yeah, really um get frustrated. And I guess one of the biggest things that I guess you could say drives me crazy about about other humans is yeah, is just whenever um whenever people get so passionate and and I say worried about what other people are doing when it doesn't affect them, you know, like um one thing I'm really kind of passionate about is you know, like LGBTQ, you know, rights and and stuff like that. And um I'm involved in I'm on the board of our local, we're like a small county, like you know, I live right outside of Charlotte, but I'm in like a rural county. So um it's very conservative and and you know, traditional old-fashioned people, you know, a lot of the a lot of the, but it's becoming more of a suburb of Charlotte. So a lot of people have kind of moved out here that are um, you know, just going into the city or they're from up north or they're from different parts, you know, other big cities. Um, so there's been a kind of a bigger shift. So we've been trying to, you know, have just pride events and find connect the local, you know, LGBTQ people and stuff. And the the opposition and the protests and the hate and the all that kind of stuff that we get is just exhausting because, you know, I just want to shake people sometimes be like, why do you care so much about this? Has nothing to do with you, you know, like don't come to our events if you don't want to. Don't, you know, like no one's no one's trying to change you necessarily. We're trying to be supportive for people who need it. Like, might just mind your business and go away. So, um, you know, and then there's there's just, you know, and the same thing with like, you know, issues related to, you know, racism or, you know, all different things that are going on right now, especially in our political world. It's just, it just boggles my mind. And it's been like that ever since I was probably like a teenager. I'm just like, why are some people just spending all their energy to talk about and fight against things that they are not affected by, you know, like doesn't it doesn't impact their life, but it does impact other people's lives, and that's why they're on the other side of it, you know. So um, you know, and that's and I guess that's a recurring kind of theme in in the program I teach in too is you know, there's there's all different kinds of people, there's all different kinds of families, you know, and at the at the end of the day, we're, you know, human development family studies, we're not necessarily as child focused as some of the other, like the education people or the um, you know, people who are studying early childhood specifically. But at the end of the day, it's about, you know, how can we support babies turning into adults that are, you know, healthy and happy and and a good part of society and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, if if we can be respectful and supportive of different types of families, you know, in the long run, that's gonna help the children grow and thrive and and be healthy, healthy and happy. And um, it's just, you know, it's hard not to get upset when I when in my in my view, people are fighting against that, you know. I'm just like, why are you why are you making this so difficult? It doesn't have to be like this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

But when there are tools at your disposal to be able to to kind of work to the problems prior to them becoming problems, and I think that's what your your field of study, you know, here you were in social services, and a lot of times you were seeing people as they'd already slid down the slide and had problems. And what you're doing now is here are the tools and resources to hold you up or find ways and methods before you get into the situations where you're at the social services office and and uh so that's but it's there are so so many. I mean, you just in a minute talked about four or five different categories or types or situations. So if I asked you what you're most proud of that you do in in your work or group that you work with, what what would you say that you're most proud of or most at the same time challenged by?

Head, Heart, And Human Complexity

SPEAKER_07 35:05

And you may have just answered that, but um well, I guess I guess I'm proud that I still care basically, because um I'm always I you know, you have these random memories sometimes that are kind of like a core memory, and at the time it seemed like throwaway, but I I always remember a conversation I had um in my very early 20s. I don't even know if I was working at social services yet. I was fresh out of college and trying to, you know, trying to find a decent job. And um a lot of my friends had either not gone to college or um or they had, but they were getting more into the business world, kind of, you know, working at a you know, skyscraper downtown or whatever. And we were just kind of chatting about the work I was getting into, and you know, and I was telling friends like, I want to have a job where like the point of the job is to help people. And my friends were kind of like, but you need money, you know, like who cares? You know, help volunteer in your free time at an organization to feel good and get a job that pays well. Who can't, you know, and I just you know, we kind of had a like a friendly debate about it because I was like, I would be miserable if I worked at a bank or if I worked, you know, and no offense people do, you know, but I just knew myself that like I would hate that, you know. If if my if you boiled down the point of my job and it was to get more money for the company, which a lot of jobs are, I would be so miserable, you know. And you know, they kind of were like they couldn't relate because they were just like, but you're going into a field that you know does not pay very well, you know. And I was like, Yeah, I know, I'll figure it out, you know. So, and after and then all the years at at social services, I I would look around at some of my coworkers and be like, I wonder how they felt when they first started. Because some of them you could tell were kind of burnt out. You could tell they didn't really care. It had become kind of just a job for them. Um, you know, sometimes they were stubborn about, you know, doing things to help people kind of, I don't want to say breaking the rules, but you know, kind of being more flexible and you know, doing things they could do, but they could also not do it and justify not doing it, you know. And and I was just like, I would rather, and that's another debate, and you know, I used to have that debate with coworkers too, you know, like if a if a person called me asking me to do something for them, even though they didn't do what they were supposed to, you know, they turned something in late and they're asking me to to do it, you know, a lot of people's response would be, no, you turned it in late, you have to wait. I'm doing people, other people, you know. But I when I would hear that, I would just go, okay, you know, like I'll listen to their story, and then I would pull theirs out from the bottom of the stack and do it because I'm like, I know if I just do it and get it done, I can move on to the others. It's not that big of a deal. Um, but they said, well, now you're just teaching them that they could turn their stuff in late and and just call with their sob story. And I'm like, their sob story is probably true, you know, like it's who knows, maybe they're lying, but I'm not I'm not worried about that. I'm just and then now they're happy and they leave me alone and I move on to the do the rest of my work and they don't call my supervisor yelling at him, you know. So I'm like, you know, just let's just keep things flowing and and keep people happy. And um, I just never understood a lot of people's mentality of, you know, I'm like, why are you, you know, when people say like a teacher who's who hates kids, you know, it's like why are you a teacher? Why are you teaching? Yeah. So yeah, there were some people who I would overhear them on the phone or talking to clients, and I would just think, why do you work here? Go work somewhere else. You know, you obviously don't care about this stuff, you know. And so I kind of sometimes think, like, wow, after all these years, I still, I still kind of care, you know, maybe sometimes too much, you know, but yeah, yeah, you know, I still right, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So that's that's uh, you know, and like I said with students too now, you know, sometimes I, you know, students will give me their sob stores too about why they didn't turn in their assignments or your whatever, you know. And um, that's another thing I'm sure I'll learn over the next few years, like how strict I need to be about because I'm I'm pretty flexible. And and some professors are, and some I've talked to are just like, nope, deadlines are deadlines, you know, and they're very strict about it. Um, so so far I'm I'm pretty flexible as far as like, oh well, okay, turn it, you know, I'll I'll take some points off because it's late, but you can still turn some, some won't even take it late, you know. Yeah. So I'm still trying to find my my balance there.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

I'm sure it'll take a few years. Well, you you start hearing the same stories and improved. Yeah, but if it's creative, you know, come on. Yeah. Yeah, I was listening to a podcast last night and it was um some power guys talking, and um, they were talking about being, you know, pulling on call, and they'd be at some function and they were on call, and so they they'd get the call to to go fix some power. Or whatever. And the people that they're with would say, Do you have to go? And you're like, Yeah. I mean, it's it's my job, and people are wanting power. And I'm, and I've often thought, you know, in that situation, it's so obvious of well, would you want your power back on quickly, or would you want somebody to say, I just sat down to my steak dinner when I finish it, I'll go get your power. And I mean, there just becomes an urgency of what we do, and maybe that has to do with passion. And you're either passionate about what you're doing, and therefore you can serve in those capacities, or you're not. Um so, and it kind of struck me too when you were talking um when my husband and I got married and or were dating, it's like, look, I I don't want a pastor. So if you're gonna go into the ministry, I just don't. I grew up preacher's kid, and I'm I'm good. And my dad becomes your that becomes your role as pastor's wife, yeah. They get a twofer on on that. Right. Um but and I grew up in it, and my dad was a um IRS agent and then went into the ministry. And so um, which meant he was one heck of a businessman in the in the office. But um, but one of the things that Tom has always said, and I think he's done, is that his field is his office, it's his work, it's his his his mission is to the people that he deals with day in and day out. And so I think that you can you can do that, and it seems like you really do that with your students. You bring the challenges that you have, you know, and in raising your kids to seeing those needs and differences in your students. So, but there's a lot of things that come across that just make our brains hurt. What subject or situation comes across that you just want to push out and don't even want to have to think about? I mean, you've had to think about office setup, classroom teaching, juggling, all of that, still having at home, um, still going to teach your meetings and being the on the other side of the desk. What's what's your brain ache?

Advocacy, Pride Work, And Community Pushback

SPEAKER_07 42:28

Um I would say probably research, and by that I mean like doing like, you know, a lot of people get into education, higher education, and then they, you know, it's like they teach and they do research, you know. And I definitely respect and appreciate all the people that do research and and want things to be evidence-based, but I don't want to be the one doing the research, you know. I that's kind of scares me. Um, and I don't have a doctorate degree as of yet. I'm I might go into that soon, but and that's one reason I put that off so long, is because I'm like, I know you have to do a research, you know, thesis and dissertation and all that stuff. And I'm just like, oh, you know, I don't I want to, you know, and I was telling one of the professors I work with, we were talking about that, and I was saying that, you know, I I know when you go into university teaching, that's usually part of it. And I'm like, can you just opt out and say, just want to teach? I don't want to do that part, you know. And she was kind of laughing and she was like, that's interesting. And I was like, Yeah, I don't, I hate to say it, but I don't really care about being the one to do it and to put out, you know, articles about my research and all that. Like, I think it's fascinating and I love hearing about other people's research. I just don't want to I guess it just feels overwhelming to me to to create, you know, the and so there's a there's a course in our um program that's about research. And I every semester so far I've been like, I don't want to teach that one. Like you're gonna have to.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yeah, probably eventually here. They're they're gonna, and if you talk too much about it, they're all all the professors are gonna come together and go, put it on mice.

SPEAKER_07 44:08

Right. You need to, it'll be good for you. Yeah. So yeah, I you know, and I've had to do it a little bit here and there and in you know, past, you know, schoolwork of my own and stuff, but nothing, nothing too big. But um, I don't know why. I just I don't know if it's a little intimidating and it just feels like a lot. And like I said, I I I'm comfortable, you know, reading about the research of others.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yeah, like I mean, tell me what you discovered. I don't want to I I can see this coming, so um which is funny because I think I told you I love research, and so I need to go to school so I can have a.edu account because oh yeah, oh yeah, to get access to a lot of research.

SPEAKER_07 44:50

Yeah, you have no access, yeah. And that's what I'm saying. I like reading, I like research, you know, and people kind of throw that word around, like, oh, I researched this topic, meaning, you know, I read about it and I I tried to find a lot of you know good sources and and that that word of res, you know, that type of research I do constantly and love, you know. But because to me it's just like I'm learning about something, but but actually like designing a research study and implementing it and analyzing the data and all that, that's like, oh, I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Yeah, okay. See, that's interesting because I mean I I'm talking about reading all of those. Yeah. But yeah, you you throw me in a statistics class. Yeah, that scares me. Yeah, I'm an English exactly.

SPEAKER_07 45:32

Yeah, and I majored in English at first and then switched. But yeah, that was I was always one of those students who was better at yeah, English and languages, and and you know, I could just spit out a you know, a paper the night before and get an A, it wasn't a big deal to me, you know. But math classes and science classes were really, really difficult.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

So oh, the fact that I know the word qualtrix is impressive. I'm like, hey, I even know what that looks like, but it has nothing to do with my ability. Um, when you hear the word unfair, because you know, a lot of times there are times now in the university system that I might not make it because I think in freshman year they require calculus in a lot of schools and a lot of programs, and I would be like, I'm out. So and you probably hear the word unfair thrown around a lot in the classroom and a lot just in life. What's your thought when you hear the word unfair? What do you think of?

SPEAKER_07 46:36

It's interesting, yeah. Um, you know, I immediately think of, you know, a parent telling their child, you know, life isn't fair, get used to it. Uh but when it comes to, you know, um rules and and policies and things like that, you know, of course I feel like it deserves a little bit more attention. But I mean, you've probably seen um a lot of people have at this point, I think, you know, those those graphics that show the difference between like equality and equity, with um, you know, equality is every we're giving the same program to everybody no matter what. And then equity is like actually looking and saying, well, some people haven't had access, so we're actually going to give them a little more because they need a bigger boost to be on the same level, you know, as everybody else, that sort of thing. So um, I think of fairness, I usually think of of equity as far as you know what access do people have to things, you know, what allowances or accommodations are available for people that need it, stuff like that. Um, because you know, there's there's one thing to say, you know, um, equal, everything's equal, we all have equality, you know, but but then the reality is is that is that still fair, you know, for you to just put it out as equal to everybody. Sometimes that's not fair either, you know. You you think it is, but then you really have to stop. And um, it kind of reminds me of the um, what do you call it, the golden rule, you know, treat others as you would want to be treated. And I remember years ago reading somebody said, No, actually, that rule's kind of selfish. Treat others as you have learned they want to be treated, you know. So take the effort to find out what they want and need. Because if you treat them the way you want to be treated, that might not match up, you know, with their life, their background and their life situation, you know. So it's it's kind of the difference between empathy and sympathy, you know, like you you're not taking their situation into account, you're just putting upon them what you think you would want, you know, and it could be wildly different, you know. So just kind of considering people's background, yeah.

Caring In Bureaucracy And Fairness

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, I um I'm I'm an avid believer in counseling and therapy if you need to work through something and you know, being able to have access to that. I I think it's a shame that um access is is again unlimited is limited um for a number of reasons. But um, but I have been told so many times when I have been speaking with a counselor of stop trying to make people react as if they're Amy. They're not. And and I think in society we probably protect ourselves a great deal.

SPEAKER_07 49:22

Um it's almost and it's hard, it's hard not to do that, yeah. But you kind of have to think but that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

If you find yourself in some some areas where you can relate, you can empathize with the student, but yet you're on the other side of the desk, and so you have a responsibility to the student, you have a responsibility to the I guess to the parents too, because they're oftentimes paying for the student. And then you have a responsibility to the university, and you have a greater responsibility to society and the culture and the whole academia concept. That's pretty heavy.

SPEAKER_07 50:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot to balance, yeah. And then you like your own personal like ethics and morals, and you know, all that kind of stuff thrown in there too. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Yeah, interesting. So it it in turn gives one a little bit more empathy for somebody in that position because it's like, wow, you're you're dealing with volatile souls, including your own. Right.

SPEAKER_07 50:32

Yeah.

unknown 50:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 50:33

And that's one, you know, speaking of earlier about the connecting the students to reality, you know, one of the things I usually have them do in all my classes is write, I just call them journals, but have them write um just a little short, you know, like a paragraph um about themselves personally, you know. So whatever topic we're looking at in class, you know, sometimes the journal might just be like, has this ever happened to you? Do you know anybody this has happened to? And then I usually tell them. And if you're sitting there thinking, like, I don't know, I can't think of anything. Think of a book you've read or TV show or movie, you know, like I'm sure if you think hard enough, you've seen this somewhere in life, you know, whether it was real or or like, you know, drama or whatever. Um, and a lot of times the students will get like really personal and tell me this deep dark stuff about their childhood, and you know, and sometimes I'm like, oh gosh, you know, like I hope you're in therapy, you know, like this is this is serious stuff, you know. Um, but you know, and also talking about, you know, the prevention side of things that we kind of reiterate a lot in this program is I think a lot of the students are kind of seeing things that have happened in their own life and realizing, oh, if we would have had certain services in place or access to certain things, then maybe that would have helped my family when blah, blah, blah happened when I was 10 or whatever, you know. And some of them are kind of like, wow, that's deep, you know, like they're realizing, like, oh, and I could help people, you know, in that situation or kind of prevent that situation from happening. You know, there's students have told me about, you know, their parents dying, or they're, you know, a lot of them are, you know, parents have divorced or remarried, or you know, a sibling got cancer, or sibling died, or you know, there's just there's all kinds of stuff going on in their lives that I'm just like, wow, you know, you guys see now, like in the real world, that's why we have all these things. That's why we have these programs and this type of degree to help prepare people to to go out in the world and you know, help families get through all this, you know, life stuff that can be really hard.

unknown 52:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 52:27

Try to keep it from getting worse, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah, yeah. And having to function, you know, with your eyes open and and seeing that, you know, we though we have commonalities, there's there's so many differences. I'll never forget when my son was um uh, I guess junior in high school, we were doing college visits, and one of his buddies wanted to go with us, and we went um to the University of South Carolina, and they were wanting to play football, and we're talking to the I don't remember the person, but they're we're sitting in this room, and they're looking at their transcripts and everything, and uh the kid that went with us, um the they looked at him and said, You you can't get in at all. And it's like, why? I mean, you've got the scores and everything. He never took foreign language, and he had to have two years.

SPEAKER_07 53:23

Yeah, I was gonna say, usually you have to have two years.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah, most colleges, yeah. He couldn't he couldn't get that in time to get and I mean he was crushed, and I was angry, I was so angry, not at the college system, but at the where were people along the way?

SPEAKER_07 53:40

Right. That was my first thought is did they not tell him that at the high school?

SPEAKER_00 53:44

No, or the middle school even, yeah. I know. So I was so because I mean, my kid's sitting there and he's had three years of Latin and then he took two years of Spanish, and it's really funny because he's kind of in a Spanish culture now. My age pay attention, shouldn't he? But he got it to go into school, so you know that those differences here we were going along, kind of looking like the same, but you're not. Yeah. Oh, it was crushing to me.

Research Anxiety And Academic Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_07 54:16

Um, so and that's a big thing. I think I think that's one of the biggest pieces that a lot of people forget, just in life in general, is just uh communication and sharing information with other people. So many people you talked about projecting, you know, so many people just kind of chug along and think everybody knows what they know. Yeah, and everybody doesn't know what you know, you know, even people that are more educated than you might, they haven't had the same exact life experiences and haven't been told the same things. Um, that's one thing. Um, in between when I worked at social services before I got into it's before I got into teaching, um, there was like a two-year period. Um it's kind of social services related, but I was a what's called a family partner. So um I worked with the like the Medicaid managed Medicaid uh organization, and I work directly with families whose children had uh Medicaid and like an intellectual developmental intellectual disability or mental health condition uh thing, you know, kind of needed extra support and services. Um so my role was kind of basically to kind of connect with the parents or the families and like explain things to them, help them understand, you know, what resources are available. Um, you know, they had to go to all these meetings and half the time, you know, people talk over your head, you don't understand what they're talking. You know, my job is kind of to be that middle, like, do you have questions? Do you understand? Do you want me to go to the meeting with you? So you feel like you have somebody kind of in your corner, you know. Um, you know, just kind of like be the person that they can and to be a family partner, you have to have personal lived experience. So since I have my son who has some of those issues, that's you know, uh how I got connected to that. And and that was a thing that we really focused on in that kind of area was never assuming what people know. You know, so many people sit around and throw out, you know, acronyms and um big words and you know, things. And, you know, we would always have to kind of remind ourselves, even you know, internally, like stop, spell things out, you know, don't just say, you know, A B C XYZ, all these letters, because we know what it means because we say it 10 times a day at work and we forget that anybody who doesn't work here has no clue what we're talking about, you know. So, and the parents a lot of times are too overwhelmed and intimidated or embarrassed to stop you and say, What is that? You know, because it's probably a thing that they use all the time. They just didn't know that's what it was called. So they're embarrassed to say, What is that? You know, so um, you know, and you kind of have to be careful because you don't want to come across as condescending, like, I know you don't know this, let me explain it to you. Because sometimes people are like, Yeah, I know, I know, you know, but but you also don't want to assume anybody knows anything, pretty much, you know, because you know, you never know.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

That would balance and I, you know, you just there's this thread that goes through you of like all these empathetic roles. Oh, yeah. That could be so exhausting. How do you know that Monica needs to step back, step off, and go take a break?

SPEAKER_07 57:23

I always am right on the edge of that. Um I mean, I guess I guess when I find myself like thinking a lot and stressing a lot about like work stuff, you know, when I'm not at work, which I guess I don't really know how I did it, but I guess at some point along the way when I was still at uh social services, I figured out that kind of how to sort. I never figured out I don't think how to turn it off completely, but to kind of like put a pillow over it, so to speak, you know, like I'll I'll we'll revisit this tomorrow. Um but it's you know, it's it's always kind of there simmering, you know. But uh, but I don't I I try to kind of sometimes catch myself if I do feel it creeping up, like that's work right now. I'm at home with family or whatever, or I'm out doing stuff, you know. Um just trying to keep things separate as much as possible, uh, which can be hard because you know, before my roles were a little more what you would call like hourly, like I was expected to be available between eight and five, Monday through Friday. And so that was that kind of a balance I had to find with um working now. But because you know, teaching and you working at the university is kind of just like here's some things you need to accomplish, here's the times your classes meet, you do you as far as your schedule and um when you want to make yourself available and things like that. So that's been a balance too. Because, like I said, you know, if I get a text at midnight from a student, I'm like, should I answer this or should I wait? You know, or you know, or even an email from another, you know, colleague asking me a question about something, or can you send me this file or whatever? I'm like, it's perfectly reasonable to do it tomorrow or even in three days, you know, but I kind of feel that pressure, like do it right, why not do it right now? You know, so yeah, yeah. Sometimes I kind of have to like scold myself and say, chill out, you're not at work right now, you know.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

Yeah, yeah. Well, what do you do for fun? Do you are you a traveler? Do you are you outdoors? What what's the fun part?

Equity, Access, And The Golden Rule Rethink

SPEAKER_07 59:24

I I guess I I say read. I listen to a lot of audio books lately because I I used to read actual books a lot, um, you know, in years past. And then um I kind of realized like, oh, I can listen to books or podcasts or whatever while I do other things. So I feel like I'm constantly uh have headphones on, listening to something. Um just kind of hanging out, you know, with my kids. We'll go, you know, there's a lot of like festivals going on in the community, or you know, let's go check out this new restaurant that opened up. You know, I like to go place. My husband's very much a homebody, and so um, that was kind of a balance. We had to find early earlier in our marriages because I always kind of had it in my head like, I want to go do this thing. Let's all go. And if everybody didn't want to go, then we didn't go, you know. And at some point, I was just kind of like, you know what? I'm going. Who's going with me? So, you know, one or two of the kids might go, randomly my husband might go. But you know, I've learned to just be like, if I want to go do something, just go do it. So every once in a while go on trips, you know, either like, you know, I went on the to that conference, you know, I did bring my uh 19-year-old along just so I didn't have to drive by myself. But um, you know, sometimes I'll go meet friends in another city or just you know, try to find something fun to do. Um either by myself or with them. I don't have any like distinct hobbies. I'll just try to find, oh, that sounds fun. I'll go do that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

Yeah. So the impulsiveness, a little bit of like, hey, that that gives you a mental break because you're so scheduled on some of the other things that you have to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:02

Yeah. And that's the first, and it's interesting, it it was it's from a podcast, but um, years ago, I think it was 2016 when I first did it. Another podcast that I used to listen to a lot um had like an in-person, you know, meetup kind of thing where people from all over the country and some people from other countries, um, the the host just kind of threw out there, we're gonna be, I think it was Chicago the first time. You know, if you want to come and then we can all meet each other in person, you know, or whatever. And so I that was my first time, like oh wow, like going somewhere by myself. I went and got to the airport by myself, got on an airplane, you know, I did all that by myself. I mean, you know, as an adult, but I was still like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm doing this by myself. Um, go meet strangers at a hotel, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:45

And yeah, that sounds like a recipe for somebody in social services. Right. Wait, what? Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_07 1:01:53

Um that's funny. But it was uh it all turned out and they were they were better, but everybody was nice. And um, so that group, interestingly, we we met every year for a while in different cities, and then COVID, of course, that all stopped for a few years. We've slowly been getting back in the groove. I think we've only done it like once since COVID, but um yeah, just things like that, you know, just try to find. I really want to travel more. Yeah, I gotta, I've been um here again. We're talking about research, and I'm always researching, you know, places I want to go and and and kind of making dream plans in my mind. So one thing I've been as I'm getting older, I've trying to been kind of telling myself, like, quit planning and reading about things on the internet and go do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

Yeah, so yeah, trying to boost myself up to do that. Easier to to kind of look, but I mean, good grief, you've done something that I can't even have the concept of like all these people. Um, we were I was talking to somebody last night and she was like, She does so much better with um online friendships and doesn't really have people in the neighborhood and everything. And one of the other ladies um in this group of men said, Well, you ought to just move to Alabama or to Georgia. And then I was like, No, if she moves here, we wouldn't be her friends because we we would be in the community and not online. Like, you know, sometimes that's that's kind of tough. Um, you you know, you've got teenagers and you're dealing with youngsters and social media and online, and as you're talking about that, I just think, wow, you've got all these people that are having to deal with an aspect of life that I did not at when I was those ages. Do you find that a difficult aspect in teaching and in dealing with family? Um, that you have all this access that's beyond your doors, but yet is life too?

Communication Gaps And System Navigation

SPEAKER_07 1:03:57

Um, I guess because one thing I do appreciate about my own childhood is that my parents, we didn't, you know, we like a lot of people say we didn't have a lot of money, but my parents kind of saw the the, I don't know if they did for fun or they thought it was good for me and my brother, but we had a computer in our house from a very young, like in the 80s, you know, when most people hadn't even, you know, thought about touching a computer, you know. Um, and we had the internet. I I remember having to explain to people like what the what that was, you know. Yeah. Because they, you know, so I just by the time I went to to college in the mid-90s, it was like normal to me to have an email address and go to websites and look for things and you know, and they were having to kind of force people, you know. I remember it was like an ordeal to remind students and staff of the university, like you have to look at your email, like log in and look at it, you know, once a day or once every few days or whatever. Um, where now it's just part of our lives, you know, it pops up. But um, so I kind of felt like the internet felt kind of more normal to me, you know, before. Um, because I remember, you know, and I was what you would call like chatting with people on there, you know, when it was like you had to call the your computer had to call this number and then you would connect to like one person and talk to them, you know, whatever. It was very different than like chat rooms and stuff now. Yeah. So I always kind of felt kind of connected to that and kind of appreciative of you know, that you can actually develop a relationship with someone that way, you know, where a lot of people kind of can't wrap their mind around, like, oh, those are not your real friends, you know. It's like, but if you've been talking to this person for years, yeah, you know, maybe you've never met them face to face, but um you could still call them a friend. You know, you guys have probably shared even more like intimate things about yourselves because you didn't have that the awkwardness of being face to face, you know. So um, and I had some friendships start that way and and romantic relationships, and you know, over the years that started with, you know, chatting online and then moving to the phone and then maybe eventually meeting. And so I kind of always felt like, yeah, that's a valid way to navigate, you know, social situations or whatever. But um it definitely complicates, and you know, that's the thing we look at a lot with with uh the field I'm in is you know, intimate or friendships, you know, any kind of close relationships between people, you know, and how you interact with the with the people is really a huge part of it, you know, because and that's kind of how my my own child now, the 19-year-old, like you said, you know, some people are just that's more their comfort level, you know, and so their primary friendships are people in other states that they talk to every day and have for like six years now, you know, they talk constantly, they do video chats and phone calls, and then they also just text throughout the day. Um, and they've never met in person, you know. And so sometimes I'm like, we really need to plan a trip, you know. Even as the mom, I'm like, I want to drive you there so you all can meet. Like, this is crazy that you've been talking the all these years and haven't actually met, but we just haven't made it happen yet. Um so yeah, so that's you know, and when I worked at DSS Social Services, there was a lot of that kind of stuff creeped into people's stories, you know. Um finding somebody said something online or somebody found, you know, instant messaged somebody and and connected to their, you know, birth parent or whatever, you know, it's just like all this stuff that the internet just kind of opens you up to. Um, that we, yeah, we definitely didn't have all that access before. And there's a lot of misinformation out there too. So, you know, that's a big thing I try to tell my students a lot is like you have to be careful of like where you're getting this information, you know, because you could Google and get all kinds of conflicting things. And if you just happen to pick the wrong site to use as your source, you know, then everything you're saying is is junk, you know, like you have to be look, you know, it's like a big thing with with, I guess, um, this current generation or whatever. It's like you have all this access, but some of them don't seem to be as good at at filtering out, you know, what's not reliable.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:16

That's really interesting. I never thought about it before, but maybe a skill that we need to be teaching is discernment. You know, because long gone are the days of here's the world book, the encyclopedia, and we've all got the same one. You look it up, and there it is. Um, and then to be able to discuss and to have those communication skills and be able to know your values and what you come with, but be open to others. So um, but that is pretty progressive of your parents. I mean, to to have at that point.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:58

So I realized when I was an adult and I would talk to other people about first time they had a computer, first time they got on the internet, and I'm like, oh, that was years after after I did. So um, yeah, I'm glad that because I'm just more comfortable with it, I think, than than a lot of people are. But at the same time, one thing I thought about, and I think I read an article about it recently, and I was like, Yeah, that is it. Like with my with my kids' generation, you know, with us, it was like computers kind of became more prominent, you know, like my late teens, early 20s, you know, people getting on on computers and everything, and then cell phones got better and better. Now we all just have our computer ready, basically, you could say, on our phone, you know. And so a lot of people that are in their like teens and 20s now aren't as comfortable on a computer, you know, like just basic functions of little things we know how to do, you know, little key combinations and you know, right, right from you know, because they've always done stuff on their phone. Like my my 19-year-old is so fast on the phone that I'm just like, how how because to me, I'm like, if I need to type something up, I'm gonna get out the laptop and and open Word and you know, but they're like, Oh no, it'd be faster for me to do it on my phone.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

And I'm just like, what with your thumbs, you know?

SPEAKER_07 1:10:15

No, you're gonna have instead of wrist arthritis, you're gonna have so you know, and then when I show when they find out about basic things on that I feel like are just common, I shouldn't say common sense, but you know, oh everybody knows that, you know, things, right? Things you can do on Windows or whatever, they're just like, Oh, I didn't know that. And I'm just like, Oh yeah, I guess you wouldn't because you didn't spend thousands of hours on a computer like I did since I was you know 15 or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

That's funny. Uh one of the vows I've made is to keep up with technology. I don't want the old TV, I don't want the old computer, I don't want, I mean, because it's like I know there will come a point where I can't make a jump if I don't, you know, keep up. But um, but I mean, I was at my daughter's a couple weeks ago, and I'm sitting at her desk and I'm doing this online study, and and she's got this huge curved screen, and so I'm working on two screens, and I'm like, man, I like this. I was like, you need to check my suitcase on the way out because that's so um, so there, I mean, there are so many nice things, but you just to challenge yourself, and I think that's that's what you do to yourself with all of your education and how you make career changes and what you're doing to with your students. If there was something, this is your platform, if there's something that you could really, you know, shout something out loud, what would that be?

Knowing When To Step Back

SPEAKER_07 1:11:51

Um I think one of the biggest things, and it kind of it kind of hints at what I was saying earlier, like if you if anybody um feels ready, because it can be a difficult thing to do, but I just feel like everybody should kind of take the time to examine their um their, I guess, whatever biases they may have or whatever thought, you know, a lot of people would never just say, you know, I'm racist or I'm homophobic or I don't like people from blah, blah, blah part of the world or whatever. But, you know, but it's there, you know, you you might not realize it. So um, you know, or people who grew up in a certain economic class, you know, they don't really relate to people higher or lower than them, and you know, in that sense of the word. So I just I just wish people would, I guess, um make more of an effort to learn about people different from themselves. And, you know, it might not always be possible to meet somebody and and talk to them, but then like we were saying, the internet has everything, you know, like you could find, you know, YouTube videos or a documentary or you know, just read about something. You know, there's just think of a think of a type of person or whatever, you know, from a certain background or a certain life choice or whatever you want to call it that you don't understand and that you think is quote wrong or um distasteful or whatever, and just maybe read more about or watch more about their perspective and the way they see the world. And um I just I've heard a lot of stories of people, you know, who you know were anti-whatever until they met people. Yeah, but then they saw, yeah, and then they're like, oh, they're just people, you know, like we're all just people, we all have the same ultimate, you know, wants and and dreams and whatever, you know, like we said about our kids, you know, we ultimately we all just want to be relatively happy and healthy and get through life without too much stress, you know, like that's like all we need, you know. Um people people approach that in different ways. So what, you know? So yeah, I just excuse me, I just feel like if we could make more of an effort to understand differences, that would that would go a long way. Yeah. And even if you don't understand, like with the whole LGBTQ thing, like I've seen a lot of people recently, you know, post online or kind of come out and say, like, look, I don't understand it because it's not me, you know, like I I can't understand how a trans person feels, or I can't understand how a gay person feels if I'm straight, or vice versa, or whatever. Like, but that's fine. It's not for me to understand. I don't need to worry about it. It doesn't affect me, you know. Like once you can kind of just accept, like, so what? Who cares? It doesn't affect me, you know. And for some people that comes down to acknowledging that it's a real thing and not a choice, or it's a real, you know, like part of life, I guess I should say, you know, that you know, no one's out here trying to recruit kids or whatever, which is some some people will use that as their um their justification. But um, it's like just let people live, let people be happy, you know. Um really, really comes down to think about how does this really truly affect you? And if it doesn't, then just move on and go back to trying to do things in your own life, you know, to make your own life better.

Joy, Audio Books, And Solo Adventures

SPEAKER_00 1:15:21

Well, I'll tell you, I mean, I think you get something on the head there of like you put a name and a face on something, and I mean that can be some of the life places or decisions or you know, just where people are, and it can be uh cultural. I mean, another country, you you think about a country based on a person, and then all of a sudden, when you have a friend who's from that country, and we go back to we have such access to the world now that you know when I was a child, you did not, and so it just um to me it just burst the world wide open for um growing and learning and and being a part. Um it's kind of interesting when you think about it and and and get to know people. Um I think sometimes that the academic world kind of puts that out there a little bit more. I mean, just the fact we have international students and you know they're coming in and it becomes commonplace of like, yeah, sure. I went to school with somebody from here, here, here, and here. I went to school with people that identified in this group and that group, and I mean it just um it it can be quite a melting pot. Um definitely we've talked about a lot, we've gone all the way across through personal and professional and you know, childhood and everything. Is there anything that we didn't cover, Monica, that you want to make sure we do?

SPEAKER_07 1:17:03

I think so. I can't think of anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:07

Well, how do people get in touch with you? If they want to follow things that you're doing, if they want to um, if they resonate with something that you talked about today, how how would they find?

SPEAKER_07 1:17:18

Um what would be the best way, I guess. Uh I guess maybe I'm not um that's a good question. I'm sorry, I was gonna just give out like Instagram or Facebook, but I was like, I think they're all like private, you know. Um I mean, I don't mind giving out just my email address, I guess. It's uh monica b.king at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:41

Okay. All right. Um, well, and I'm I mean, I if people want to get in touch with you and and then they can follow from that, but um you've been quite an encourager, and I I appreciate you being being here. I have one more question. If you superpower and you got to have it for 24 hours, any superpower you want, you can use it personally or professionally, what superpower would you choose? How would you use it, and why would it be your choice? Oh my goodness, 24 hours.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:14

Yes. Uh yeah, because the first thing I thought of was like, you know, like I guess healing or whatever, like be able to just touch people and like any health issues or any, you know, things that are not quite right with them, they would just be 100% healthy, you know. But then my immediate thought was like, oh no, only 24 hours. I would feel bad. I would didn't get to everybody. Um, but I guess I could still be, I could just go around a bunch of hospitals or something, you know. Just, you know, kind of have like a magic, you know. I think of uh what is that movie Encanto with the with the mom can make like give people a snack or whatever and it heals whatever's wrong with them, but it'd be better to just touch them on the head or whatever. But yeah, just just fix, fix, you know. I I think it's Star Trek too when they had those uh kind of scanners where they could just I keep saying, I keep saying, I can't wait till we get to that point in technology where we can just scan someone's whole body and be like, all right, here's here's what we need to address, you know, instead of having to figure out all these symptoms and talk to different doctors and like look, just just scan me and tell me what's wrong with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:25

Scan once and find out what's wrong, scan twice and fix it.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:28

Fix it, yeah. It's a magic wand. Let's just fix it. So yeah, I guess that would be it. Just kind of be able to heal people.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:38

Yeah. Monica, thank you. It has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:03

To my own song.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:13

Got a stump to my own drum. Stump to my own song.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

Stump. Find Stat Keys Podcast on Spotify, SoundCloud, and iTunes, or anywhere you get your favorite podcast, listen. You'll laugh out loud, you'll cry a little, you'll find yourself encouraged. Join us for casual conversation that leads itself based on where we take it, from family to philosophy, to work to meal prep to beautifully surviving life. And hey, if I could ask a big favor of you, go to iTunes and give us a five rating. The more people who rate us, the more we get this podcast out there. Thanks, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:06

Stomp to my old drum. Stomp to my old zone. Stomp head. Gonna put on my boots in the mood. Stomp to my old drum. Stomp to my old zone.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:22

Stomp head Sing it out loud and stay it real proud. Nobody's gonna step on my cloud. Cause I stomp stone. To the beat of my big drum. Whatever you do, it ain't nothing on me. Cause I'm doing my thing and I got the key.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:42

To all my walls and all my dreams Stomp to my old drum. Stomp to my old song. Stomping. Gonna put all my boots and wood back. Stalk to my old drum. Stomp to my big drum. Stomp hey, got my pocket for you.