Episode 258 -- Ashley Wall -- How A Mom Built A Kids Book Brand From Scratch

A lot of people say they want to write a children’s book. Ashley Wall actually did it and then kept going until it became a business. She joins us to talk about the surprising path from middle school math teacher to stay-at-home mom to children’s book author and co-founder of Mama Bear Books, and what it takes to build a real author brand without losing yourself in the process. 

We get practical about self-publishing and indie publishing: the learning curve, the mistakes that cost money, and the mindset shift that saved her time and stress. Ashley shares one rule we keep coming back to: “invest, don’t spend.” We talk about choosing quality over shortcuts, why long-term thinking matters if you want your books in print in 20 years, and how mentorship and reputable partners protect your standards. 

Then we move into confidence, leadership, and parenting. Ashley explains how specific praise and purpose build confidence, how she learned to delegate instead of burning out, and how boundaries turn a dream into a sustainable work life balance. We also dig into screen time, social media, and the daily choices that shape kids’ attention spans and imagination, especially when you’re around other families who do it differently. 

If you care about raising curious, confident kids and building a creative business with integrity, this conversation will give you both encouragement and concrete next steps. Subscribe, share this with a parent or aspiring author, and leave us a review so more people can find Stacked Keys.

Music "STOMP" used by permission of artist Donica Knight Holdman and Jim Huff

Transcript

Welcome And Podcast Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Welcome to Stacked Keys Podcast. I'm your host, Amy Stackhouse. This is a podcast to feature women who are impressive in the work world or in raising a family or who have hobbies that make us all feel encouraged. Want to hear what makes these women passionate to get up in the morning? Or what maybe they wish they'd known a little bit earlier in their lives? Grab your feet and stalk to your own drug.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

From Teaching Math To Writing

SPEAKER_00 1:32

I'm excited. So let's just jump right in. How do people know you both personally and professionally?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Um, oh, how do they know me? Well, I guess professionally they know me as an author now. I was an educator. I well, I still feel like I'm an educator, though. I um taught middle school math for a long time, about 10 or so years, and um then had kids, so I became a stay-at-home mom, and then turned author. So professionally, um, they know me. I guess now as an author, probably still as an educator. I still go do like author visits and everything like that. And that's still where my heart is is inspiring kids. And now it's it's really kind of turned into inspiring other adults or even, you know, specifically moms, um, to follow their dreams because I've seen now firsthand um the effects and how great it can be. Um, and then personally, um, well, hopefully, first off, I hope they see me as like a child of God, someone who's following, you know, that path and a good mom and a good friend, um, and just someone who is is loving. Is that answering your question? That was a good that was a good question. I haven't been asked like that, like that before.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah, that's a good answer. So math teacher to author. That's yeah, I know different pods of the brain, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

It's funny. Yeah, I've always loved math. Like in school, I was always did really good in math. I actually kind of struggled in reading. I didn't, I loved it as a kid, got out of it, kind of loving it in like middle school and high school, and you have to read out loud in the classroom and stuff, and then got back into reading in high school or in college, but I still just always loved math and I was just really good at it. Um, and I always wanted to work with kids. And so it kind of just put those two things together and was a math teacher and I loved it. And then in college, I got back into reading for fun and then just, you know, continued to just read. I love reading. And um then as I became a mom, knowing how important reading is, I read for my kids from they were, you know, five days old. We read just all the time. And I just kind of kept getting inspired to write a book, write a children's book, and I would jot things down um here and there, but didn't really like bring it up to anyone, never told my husband, just kind of in the back of my mind. Um, but then it just kind of I knew I wanted to get back into the working world. I wanted to do something after being at home for a few years, and I just kind of went from the back of my mind to the front of my mind to like write a children's book. And uh I still need a lot of help editing and spelling because I still am very math. I love math. Um, but like the ideas and the imagination, I think, is where it all came from. And the grammar part I still need help with.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Uh well, so what's your subject matter? What's your inspiration?

SPEAKER_01 4:15

So it's all it's all children's books. I got inspired by just reading with my own kids and using imagination and play with them. Um, all my books are very imaginate imagination focused. Um, I have a huge, uh, very vivid imagination. You know, I I joke, I'm driving in the car when it's quiet by myself, and I'm like picturing myself and going through an interview with like Drew Barrymore and Reese Witherspoon, you know, like I'm just always creating situations in my mind. Now they're more like author-focused and career focused, but I always have had this big imagination. And so I know how important that is for kids. And I I nowadays that is going down. You know, kids' imaginations are getting smaller, um, their attention spans are getting shorter. And uh so I think now, like when I was really kind of diving into what do I want to write, and I got inspired for this series where this kid's um toys come to life and he has these like kind friends, they go on these adventures. I really wanted to like um double down on that, like building imagination, building confidence, empowering kids to like think for themselves and to come up with great ideas and be creative. Um, because that's I feel with the young ones with the screens everywhere, and there's just so much stuff taking their attention, there's not room for them to just think and explore and be, you know, and just be still with their minds. So that's kind of a lot of the basis of the books.

Starting A Family Publishing Company

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah. So um that takes a bit of um security in yourself to dive into a world that is new to you, and being an entrepreneur, being an author, learning that whole scope of how was that scary? Is it still scary?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Um, yes and no. Um, I kind of just tend to go and not necessarily think about like, I mean, I'm thinking because I'm researching, I'm learning, I'm calling I'm an educator and a learner myself. But like I I had gone out for a Sunday with my daughter. We'd gone to this ice cream museum, and I was just really overcome and overwhelmed with the inspiration to do it, to go for it, to write the book. And I came home, my son and my husband were in the backyard, and I told him, you know, hey, I really I want to write a children's book. Like I think this is the path for my career that I want to take. I've been praying about it for a while. And um, and he was like, Yeah, okay. So we kind of like talked about it. And I was like, I I want to do all of it. I want to have the creative control, you know, self-published, traditional published. What do you want to do? There's so many avenues now. And I was like, I want to have control, I want to create these books, and I have specific ideas that I wanted, and I wanted to really turn it into my career. And my husband's very business oriented. So he was like, Great, we'll start a publishing company and you know, we'll help other people too, and we'll create your books. And uh, so we just and I and if it hadn't been for him, honestly, he really liked it, he was like, All right, well, we know what we're gonna call it, Mama Bear Books. And he bought the domain name and he really took the reins at that beginning. And so I was like, okay, we're doing this. And so I sat down on my computer and I started learning, and uh, and we went from there. Um, so it is scary, but I think I I think about that less and I just do. Um, because if I thought about it too much, I probably wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Uh, you know, because we get in our heads, and like right now, I have all these other avenues for my career that I want to keep adding to the author brand and and expanding my reach. And um, I can't think too much about it, otherwise I'll never do it. You know, it's like you gotta just do it and start. So I think that's where I uh push the second guessing out of my mind. I just do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Well, I mean, okay, you said y'all became publishers. I mean, that okay, let's skip the somebody's already doing that part to taking that on yourselves. Uh the learning curve.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

I mean, yeah, we have we we we joke so we don't cry about the uh about the um, you know, we all we've made a lot of mistakes. We made a lot of really great decisions, we've met some amazing people, but we've made a lot of mistakes. And we always just say, you know, we're paying for education. If we because part of me too, when I was kind of thinking, what do I want for my future? I wanted to go back and get my doctorate um and teach at the university level. Um, and we were like, well, if we had been paying for that doctorate, you know, we're just paying for the education somewhere else. So we we joke about that. Yeah, it was a lot to learn. We made a lot of mistakes, but it we have we have learned so much, and we've met, oh, we've met some amazing, amazing, incredible people along the way, and it's been real fun.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

That I absolutely love that because as an entrepreneur and seeing entrepreneurs and seeing them struggle sometimes and make decisions that cost them a lot of money, yeah. Sometimes carrying debt that they didn't mean to carry. Right. That is a paying for our education. That is a really good way to frame that.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

So that's that's pretty good. So, what's one lesson that you learned that if you could save somebody else, you would?

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Oh my goodness. Um, I was looking, I have all these like little notes up behind my desk of just little kind of sayings like that, you know, paying for education, um, the tidbits from people. And um, one thing that I've learned now, um, and I have it on a note card, it says invest, don't spend. Um, I think sometimes I would just be like, oh, you know, it's the business card. Let me like do this review, do this, you know, platform, let's try this. And instead of like really thinking about, okay, what is gonna be an investment in the company or investment in my author brand, an investment here, and what's just spending money? Um, so really think about where you're spending your money. Is it an investment into what you're doing? Um, or are you just spending because you think, oh, I need, you know, these extra followers, or I need this, like, what is an investment into your end goals? Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

So it's probably a constant look at those end goals.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yes, and like I was looking at another one right here. It's like quality over quantity, too. Um I always have to look and remind myself, and I do a pretty good job of it, but I definitely sometimes get down on it. Of this is not a one-month deal. This is not a six-month deal. I am I want my books to be in print in 20 years, in 50 years. You know, I look at the Bernstein Bears, and I think they were written in like the 60s, and you know, there's hundreds of them. And you you see these books, Brown Bear Brownberry, all these books that have been around for so long, you know, for generations. And that's what I want for my books. And so I have to look, you know, this is not um an end of this year and it's done. This is a five year, a 10-year, a 20-year, and we can, we will make mistakes, but we will fix them. And I always am trying to get my books to be better. You know, I changed the cover of my first book, and you know, there's th little things. I'm like, okay, if we reprint this one, like I want to change this little stuff. So it's always like, what is my goals? Are not just gonna end right now. It is those bumps in the roads, those you get pushed back. Well, that's fine. I have plenty of time to keep on going and to make that quality book. And we started a publishing company, but it is still very like self-published, and that self-publishing world can have a negative connotation to it because a lot of times they aren't the best quality, right? Because you know, it costs a lot of money or a lot of time, people want to rush it, whatever it is. But their stories are great, but just so it's like the quality is another like piece of advice I would say is like don't skimp on that. If you really, if your author career or or whatever career, whatever it is that you want to do is what you want, think big picture, think long term and do it right now. Do you know, make the the best steps now so you have that quality product or that quality service? Um, because so much of it is word of mouth. Even even with my books now, I have parents coming up at different events. Oh, yeah, I had the other day I was in a different city and someone was like, I have your fire truck book. I'm like, what? And I had another book and they bought the other book. So it's like you you want that quality product that people want to continue to have, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

So well, and there's science to how a paper feels. Yeah. So I mean, there's there's kind of a lot that goes can go into it. Absolutely. There's gut instinct too, but um, but there is something to it. So where do you go when you have to solve a problem? Because you're blazing some trails. So you know, do you have a go-to or do you have mentors that you look toward?

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Um, I go to my husband a lot. He's been in, I, you know, I was in education, so like working with kids and doing all that is my wheelhouse, but he's been in the business world for 20 years. So I go to him a lot. Um on the more like publishing and book creation side, I was so blessed with the my first illustrator I worked with. He did my day I had series, which the fourth book just released. And um, he's been in the industry, he's actually out of Australia, but he's been in the industry for I think 40 years now. And so he has been oh, such a blessing. He's he does incredible work, you know. The the illustrations and his creativity are, you know, surpass all expectations. But just the value that, you know, um the other day I was like, hey, I want to write an early reader series. Like, I'll let's expand. Well, we were thinking expanding the series from either or either board book or early readers. And he's like, Oh, here's what I learned at this conference about early readers, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, I didn't even think of this stuff. You are this is incredible. So it's just we've been really blessed with him. He is he's really helped us learn so much on the book creation side and and that.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

So that's great. So competition, is that a big thing in this industry? I mean, I know that you walk into a bookstore and there's just a huge amount of newly published, and you have classics. But is there a a big competitive world that you find yourself in?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Yes and no. I think um it's always competitive. There's only a certain uh number of spaces on the shelf, you know. Like I'm still waiting for Target to come call in, you know, it's it's on my goals. But again, that's it's not like, oh, they didn't call this year, I'm I'm done. No, they will call. We will be there, you know, it just takes time. But I my kids' bookshelves overflow. So I am a firm believer that like you can't have too many books, right? So to me, I don't necessarily see somebody else's books as competition. I see it as I'm like, yeah, let's get more books. So I know it is a competition because you know, uh stores can only buy so many, but me personally, like I I have met a lot of other authors, whether they are traditionally published or self-published throughout the last few years, and I buy all their books because I want more books. Um I know not everyone, you know, you can't always buy all the books, can't spend that much money or whatever. So there is some competition in it. But I really feel like I want kids to love to read. And so if if my book is not their cup of tea, that's okay. I want them to find a book that is, you know. Um, and I want so I I think the more books the better, whether they're mine or someone else's. I uh yeah.

Confidence Built Through Practice And Purpose

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah. Well uh you seem like you're incredibly confident. So is that a trait that you have always had? Um, or is it new to you, or you know, did you were you raised to think independently?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I think I, you know, so I have a five and a six-year-old, and my six-year-old daughter, she'll be seven in a couple months, um, is something that I've really reflected on lately as she's grown, and my kids' confidence is out of this world, especially hers. You know, she's like, Well, I don't need to take dance, mommy, because I'm just gonna run the dance studio. I know all the moves, I just need my own. So can we go look at dance studios? Like her confidence. I'm like, where did she get this? And I it's I've reflected a lot, and I think a lot of it is the way I was raised. Um, my parents just, you know, encouraged me to try things. If I wanted to try something, they were like, yeah, sure, you want to do cheer, do cheer. You want to, you know, do this, do that, and we'll take you. And so I think they just always encouraged me to try things. Um, they were so positive. Like, I can just remember all the compliments and and specific praise from my parents that it wasn't just like, oh, good job. It's generic. And so I really uh try to be intentional with my kids on like, you worked really hard and now you can ride your bike, not just like you're good at riding your bike, or you know, there's a kid on my son's baseball team and he gets that ball out of the park. Wow, he worked really hard. Do you think he practices a lot? So there's a lot of reflection on my childhood, on those, that kind of like praise of you're working hard and to get to, you know, a goal. And um, I think just the uplift of that constant praise, but in that specific way, kind of built me up to be like, oh, yeah, I can I can do it, I can do anything, you know. And it's I I try now to instill that with my kids, but it has been like some reflection on that. I also just yeah. Okay, I also oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

I was just gonna say I like that because it's such intentional conversation. So a little bit of depth there, but go on with what you were gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Um I was gonna say, like, sometimes too, like I spoke a couple years ago in front of a bunch of book at a book sales conference, and I was terrified. I did absolutely horrible, bombed it. But but I was like, I it did build me up because then I watched these other authors and I'm like, wow, they did a great job. And it built me up to be like, I want to do it again, I want to try again, you know, like and I think that I when you think of your bigger picture and your goals over someone's opinions, it can help build your confidence too. Cause anytime I have that self-doubt, I think about, you know, why am I here? I'm, you know, is their opinion or my family's well-being and my journey and the legacy for my kids, what is more important to me than that one person's opinion? And honestly, people are so nice. I know we get the rude comment sometimes, but overall, people are people want to root for you and they want to encourage you. And so I think that if somebody is feeling a little, you know, less confident or not ready to go out there, you gotta just swallow it down and go out there anyways, because you'll find people want to root for you.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Oh, that's encouraging. So when you're having to make decisions or when you're just going through your day, are you more likely to listen to your head or your heart or your gut?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Um my heart and my gut. My assistant on the phone. We were on a call the other day, or it was like a couple weeks ago now, and she was like, You're like in the clouds, rainbows, unicorns, ideas, ideas, go, go, go. And then we get on the phone with Jeff as my husband, and he's like, All right, down to business. So I, yeah, I get these ideas and I just go for it. And um, I listen to my heart in a way of like, I want things to be done right. I want them to be done with love and intention. Um, you know, I'm making picture books for children. So I want everything to be encouraging and positive and um uplifting for them. And then I listen to my gut on, you know, where where should I go? You know, we're at an impasse here, and um, what avenues should we take? Um, and then my husband will bring it back down to like logic and stuff. But but um yeah, it's it's a good balance. We can't all be in the clouds, or can we?

Delegation Boundaries And Finding The Right Help

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Somebody's gotta do it. Yeah, well, okay, and it's interesting to me that you just said you you hadn't have an assistant. So you're not trying to blaze every trail and get it all done completely by yourself. Have you had periods like that?

SPEAKER_01 20:37

I was at first. Uh the first year I was I was burning the candle at both ends, and I was gonna burn out. I was so excited and I was so focused. It was like early, early morning before everybody woke up, after everybody went to bed, even like, hey kids, but the kids were younger then, go play with, you know, here's some toys. I'm gonna sit here. And it was it was burning me out. I was tired, I was exhausted, I would get irritable. And I had to sit back and I was doing all of it. And my husband has this full-time job, but he helps where he can't. Um and I had to sit back and be like, you know, I want this this business and this company to be a legacy for my kids, but I don't want them to resent the company. You know, I don't mommy spent so much time and she was so burnt out. I don't like this. I don't like these books because it's taken all of mommy's attention and and um I and or, you know, oh, in 20 years, yeah, look what I built, but at what cost? You know, I got kids were my family's number one, right? And so I had to sit back and kind of like say, okay, set set certain hours, get some help. We we brought on a marketing person, I got an assistant, um, and then we like contract people out here and there. Um, but I didn't need to get the help. And and then to just say, like, hey, it's okay to to pause. You know, you don't have to go full force all the time, like have your work hours and then it ends because the family is the most important. And now, since setting the boundaries and Getting help, it is totally different. Now, you know, I have my set work hours and my family hours, and the kids are so in it. They love it. They're like, they come with us to markets, they started their own little bracelet business that they set up a table for. You know, they one day I said something, my daughter's like, but you're still gonna be the leader, right? You're gonna be the leader of the company. And I her leadership was not even something I thought she was picking, I didn't even realize she was picking up on. So it's turned from like kind of this stressful thing, taking, you know, taking all my time to like a really positive, impactful uh thing on the whole family. Um, but yeah, getting help with that was needed, you know, even uh just an assistant, she my she's incredible, you know, and um has provides so much value and help. Um yeah, and it's and it's and it's part-time hours sometimes, you know. So it's not someone doesn't always have to get like a full-time help. You can just part-time hours can just really take a lot off.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah. How do you find people like that? Because a lot of times when you're an entrepreneur, you want to just carb and copy yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah, and it's hard to give up the control. That was like, you know, but I'm like, I can't, I gotta do all of it. Yeah. But when you and I read a book called Um Who Not How and it was really good. And it was about like taking all the stuff you're doing, and there's only like 20% of it, I think, is what it was. I'm I might get the percentages wrong, but it was like that's your genius, that what you can do, and that 80% that goes to somebody else. Somebody else can do that, and somebody else let them be creative. And like my assistant, she'll be like, Well, what do you want on your new website? I'm like, Well, I put all the stuff in there now. You go. Like, I believe I trust you. You are so creative and so capable. Like, go, and you gotta be able to trust that person you're working with. Um, but I so like for her and for some other people that we've worked with, I found them on pub for us. It's you know, we're doing books, so publisher weekly, you can put in up an ad. And then I got, oh my goodness, probably almost a hundred applicants. And um, for one position, I ended up hiring two people from that. Um, part to both part-time, but um, that was so helpful. And it was such a difficult decision because there were so many quality people that came through um on that job posting. So we did, I think my husband did one one time on a indeed, and we we found someone on there, and she's wonderful too. But the publisher weekly one was really more um like book focused.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

So finding your niche and exactly, yeah, are gonna kind of hang out. So yeah. Um well, so how do you balance? And I know that people talk about balance not really existing, but you know, you've kind of got the kids involved, but yet, you know, you're running to sports teams, you're doing yeah, all these other things. So, how how do you figure out how to give where when?

SPEAKER_01 24:55

So my kids are at school now. So those school hours are my working hours. I'm super intentional on my working hours. Like, I hadn't even felt so bad telling my mom and my sister, I'm like, I can't talk to you between this hour and this hour, you know, because I'll get distracted. So I have to be, especially working at home, like I will call you when I get in the car to pick up the kids. You know, I have to be so intentional on my hours because they are limited. Um, and then like for me in the evenings, like I just don't work well at night. So I don't, I just don't. And I'm like, everything can, I'll do maybe like 10 or 15 minutes of emails after the kids go to bed. Um, but that's it. And then I shut it down. Um, because I again I don't want to burn myself out. Now, some people that's they can go all night, but for me, it's not, I have to have that balance. It it's not good for like the creative mind either, you know, if I'm tired. Like I I was like, I have to value sleep. I need to get my sleep because then my mind is open and I can focus. Um, so I I don't know. I I definitely think there has to be a balance. If you if you want, you know, and and you can go all in on that career. Like I could go all in and be working 12 hours a day on the author and the publishing company, and it would it would probably be twice as far along as it is. Um, but then my family's gonna suffer, you know, my health is gonna suffer. And so I have to be okay with where we're at now and where we're going and where we're growing, and also have a healthy lifestyle and a great family balance, you know. So it I think it's just about priorities. To me, my priorities were my family, our health, and uh and then the business and the company.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Yeah, yeah. I started um right when my oldest was born, and I can remember having to have a presentation ready the next morning, that meant I had to do it at night. Yeah, I just couldn't be guaranteed that I'd wake up would let me do whatever I needed to.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Um well, what's your perfect day? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Well, um, are we in the mountains in Wyoming? Because it's my perfect day. Um perfect work day. Um I like to get up before the kids, so I get up like 20, 25 minutes before the kids, um, just to kind of get myself ready for the day and start breakfast, get you know, get them all going, and then a working out. I gotta if I can get my workout in in the morning early too. Um, and then I really was a perfect day, perfect day. Maybe do an author visit because I love going to schools and uh doing author presentation with the kids. It's so fun. So I'd probably do that, and then uh get to write get to working on one of my books would be is super fun. I love, I love, love, love getting the email back from either my illustrator or the book, my book designer. Illustrations are ready, book design is ready, and then I get to go over it. That's so fun. So throw that in for the afternoon and then go pick up my kids, and they would be delighted to see me. There would be no arguing in the car. They would give me a hug and they'd be well behaved for the next couple hours while we played at home. Yeah, and then um somebody else would make dinner for me on my perfect day. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Well, uh, and you probably hear the word unfair sometimes in being a mom.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

I also hear it in career. So, what do you think of when you hear the word unfair?

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Uh well, it can be like you can compare. We get we get lost. I might be going off on a tangent here, but we get lost we in um in comparison sometimes, you know. Oh, I see this other uh children's author, and they have all this stuff, and I want that, and they got this media promotion, and I'm gonna try to get that, and you know, I'm not growing that so that we can get lost in that comparison game. Um I think what we have to remember is everybody else that you're seeing that you maybe think is unfair is working hard too. Um, sometimes I think we think things are overnight successes and they're not. Um and I think that if it kind of goes back to something I said earlier, like if we have a good product, if if our book is good and we put in the effort and the persistence to do it, um, you'll get there. Um so I think sometimes we see someone's shiny trophy they're holding up and we think it's not fair, but what we didn't see was, you know, the behind the scenes part of it. Um but in kind of touching on what we talked about earlier on the comp competition of the books. Um there is so much out there, and um I totally just lost my train of thought on what I was gonna say about that.

unknown 29:35

All right.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah, I don't know. I went, I thought of it and then it came and now it's not being fair.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Um wow, what was I just gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Oh, yeah, I think I was gonna say, you know, we see it is it is competitive out there to get your books out there. And I think we say, oh, well, this book is just out, but we have you have to sell yourself, you know, like you have to be out there constantly posting, constantly sharing, constantly at events, because there are so many books out there, so many books, and people can't know about your book if you're not sharing it. So sometimes maybe I think we can get into the unfair, but we have to like maybe reflect inward a little bit and say, like, well, what am I doing? Am I sharing? Am I being authentic? Am I being vulnerable? Am I out there? You know, um, we have a Texas book festival and it's three days coming up, you know, with setup and everything. And you're like, well, I'm giving them a whole weekend. So it's like, what what are we doing? Um before we think of like the unfair, if that answers your question.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

It does. And I kind of like that because it's like taking self-responsibility of yeah, yeah, some situations might not be fair, but what do you play in it? That's yeah, and I think it's a lot of times that's not the fun way to look at it. It's like yeah, somebody else's fault.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Yeah, I want instant success. That person's that person's post blew up and mine didn't. And you're like, well, just keep going. You have to keep going. If you're persistent over time and you have a good product, it'll work out.

Blending Fun Facts Into Fiction

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Yeah. Well, your books, um, I read the one um Space Oh, the data spaceship. Yeah, and um I mean you pull in research. And so there are things that you're seeing that when you're when you're writing these books, it's not just going into your imagination, it's pulling your imagination and putting facts to it. So is that part of your goal? I mean, I it's got to be intentional.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Oh, so when I first wrote that series, um, I created these characters and they each I wanted them each to have kind of a distinct characteristic and um and that to go through the books throughout all the books. So Noah, the one who is always sharing his facts, is really into learning and books and reading. So he knows a lot of facts. It's a lot like my son is very into that right now, which it's funny because when I was first writing the books a couple of a few years ago, my son was more like the main character who's kind of just the boy next door, sweet friend uh who loves his friends and his family. And now my son is obsessed with learning facts, and I'm like, oh, it's cool. You're you know, got different sides to you. But yeah, so that was that was something in Noah's personality, is I wanted to really have a character that loves reading because I want kids to develop a love for reading. And um, and so through that he knows all these facts. And so he's always he's I always try to do at least two in a book um that Noah is sharing.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Um I like that. And I mean you've got so many different characters and so many different places that different kids can put themselves into so they could end up differently, you know, to to a different character or so um so do you just keep like a little list of ideas? Do you find jotting something down real quick?

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I'm always jotting something down, and I'm always emailing myself. Yeah, I have more emails in my inbox for myself because if like I can't just write something down, like we're on the go. Yeah, I've always emailing myself ideas. Yeah, I constantly have ideas, I have folders on my computer, I have sticky notes everywhere. My assistant always laughs at me because she's way more um technology savvy than I am. And I'm like, Mars, I just have sticky notes and file folders everywhere. It's I'm it's not organized, but um, I'm constantly writing ideas down, you know, and I'll set aside time, you know, okay, Thursday. I'm not opening my computer, I'm not checking my phone, I'm gonna spend four hours just working on my books. And that's great and super, super helpful, especially when I'm working, I'm working on an elementary chapter book series right now. So that one takes a lot more time. But sometimes, like the other day, I was in the middle of doing something, sparked an idea, stopped what I was doing, wrote down one of my early reader books. Um, so you never know, like kind of when when that'll come, but I've got notes everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Well, it's kind of hard if you've got an assistant to be able to like share that with them and they won't actually consume.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yeah, yeah. She she does like bigger tasks, not like my like the little ideas and all that kind of stuff. Like I just do that, but um she does the bigger things. I'm like, okay, here, Mars, take this whole project.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah. Um, so do you check yourself when you're doing these books, and especially at the chapter book there? Are you pulling um the state requirements or the state? Um, I I'm not I'm out of my area here. So the recommendations or things that have to be in a book to be accepted or whatnot?

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Um, no, I don't. That's maybe maybe I should. Um I have our books have gotten picked up by a lot of libraries. I I mean, I know like I put all this all the formalities that need to be in books, you know, the copyright and imprints, all the formalities to make a full book. Like when we I mentioned this earlier too, like when we set out to start our company, I said my books are gonna look just like the books that the shelves on Barnes and Noble, right? Like that, I'm using the same printers, the same paper, the same. So I I I did a lot of learning through there's a lot of uh help out there, but I also did a lot of learning, like, let me open this book. What do they have on their uh their imprint page, their copyright page? All right, I need to clean include all this stuff. So I've got all of that kind of stuff in there. Um, but when I'm writing my books, really, it's just a lot of like flow. I'll just kind of get in a flow and just start writing. And then I'll go back and put in um, okay, what what message do we want to really put in here? And I'm I'm not big message driven on like trying to get a point across. I really want kids to believe in themselves and have confidence and know that they are important how they are and who they are, and um just empower kids to think creatively and to think for themselves. Um, so there's that that's just my message is just and kind, be kind and be confident, you know, and use your imagination. So I'll I'll put in, you know, some like little moments like that. But it's really I really want kids to love reading and to and to feel confident and happy when they're reading my stories.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Yeah. So did you have any idea as a kid what you wanted to do?

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Well, I I remember when I was really young, probably like elementary, that I wanted to be a lawyer because I thought I was good at arguing with my parents. Um, so I wanted to be a lawyer at some point for a while. And then um, I think as I got older, I always just loved kids. I babysat a lot. And so I knew I always wanted to work with kids. That's something that I've always wanted to do as I was younger. I was like, okay, maybe I'll be like a pediatrician or pediatric therapist or you know, all these different avenues. I never thought I'd be a teacher until I went to college and then um kind of was exploring, you know, how to work with kids and I really like math and put that together. Um, but it never would I have said I'm gonna start a business or I'm gonna be an author.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah. And that kind of kind of took a turn in in parenthood, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Do you think there's a difference between wishing and realizing your dreams?

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Oh, that is such a good question. Um because I think sometimes, yeah, we think like I think it can all change too. That is that's a that's a layered, that's a layered one. Um, you know, like we just said, I was a math teacher, never thought I'd be an author. And then like as our lives, the different phases of our lives change, our dreams and our goals can change. Now my dreams are different. You know, I still want to empower kids, but our dreams are are different. And um, and I think it's good to have maybe like a a wish. I would say maybe it's more like a goal or yeah, like your dream, and then um and then what was the other? You said dream or wish.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, the difference, is there a difference between realizing um your dreams or just wishing?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

I think you have to have a little bit of the wish, a little bit of the hope, a little bit of that fire, of that spark, but then you have to like call it into action, like realizing, okay, this is what I want to do. Because I guess for those couple years where I was jotting down little book ideas after my kids would go to nap go down for a nap, and you know, some of them got thrown away. Sometimes I would type on my computer, but it was just me doing it. Right. I didn't even talk to my husband about it for years. I would just get inspired every once in a while and write something down. Oh, maybe I could write a children's book one day. Um, and then it kind of just kept on coming forward and and coming out more and more. And I think that's when I realized like this is my purpose. Um, so I think maybe one, maybe one is the spark and then the other one's the flame. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Oh, I like that. I like that. I mean, it's yeah, you can have a spark, but you can have a bunch of sparks. Yeah, yeah. Something with one of them, it doesn't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

It's like that when I was writing, when I we were first like, okay, I I was inspired to write a certain kind of book, but then I kind of just kept getting all different kinds of ideas, and I would just write at the beginning of starting this whole thing. And so I have tons of manuscripts on my computer. Some are half done, some there's just a few lines, you know, different ideas that just didn't pan out. And so you never, and I was trying to encourage other authors too, you never know which story. You know, you don't have to be, don't set yourself up. It just has to be this one. Let your creativity flow because you never know what's gonna happen. You know, when I set out to start this company and to become an author, the day I had was not on my radar. That came through writing, through brainstorming, through you know, brain dumps, and and it's been our biggest success. And um, and I just love it so much. And it's brought, and like that's how we met that ill illustrator Vaughn, and it's brought so much to us. And um, but if I had been stuck on the very first thing I wanted to write, none of that would have happened. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Well, we talked a little bit earlier. You talked about your daughter seeing you know leadership in the whole thing. So what's your description of a good leader?

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Um, I think someone who's in it, you know, someone who's I remember being a teacher, and we would have people come in and tell us to do all these things in our classroom. And I was like, you're not in the class. Like none of that is gonna work. So I think being a leader is someone who's on the ground with it, you know, who's doing it. And, you know, I'm at the markets, I am at the festivals, I am there, I'm doing all of it. I'm, you know, I I own the business, but I'm also an author. So I'm I've got the social media struggles and I've, you know, I've gotten the not great reviews and I've I can share my experiences and I am still learning. I don't have it all figured out. Um, and I'm always learning from others too. Um, but I think being a leader is somebody who's who's in it and can give you their experience and who can be just really a positive, you know, person about it. I don't want to talk to someone who's just gonna be down all the time or you know, putting me down, but someone who can say, like, yes, this is well, how can we make it better? Let's think big picture. What do you want your author career? You know, when I talk to authors, yeah, okay, how can we make what about a series? Do you want to make this into a series? Let's think long term. Um, and so I think just broadening for me the authors or the people around me's vision, you know, and building that vision to more than maybe what they originally thought.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Yeah, that's good. Um and I guess that comes across to your daughter of like, wait, you you've got to stay the leader. So be what she thinks of that.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

That's a great question to ask her. Yeah, when she was like, Are you still gonna be the leader? Like, well, what does that mean? I'll go back and ask her.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah. Well, how do you know how you can trust someone? I mean, you've had to kind of go through a lot of situations where you've had to be trusting, um, trusting with your ideas, trusting with you know, your finance, trusting how how do you know it how you can trust someone? Do you have a trust meter?

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Yeah, I will say that I tend to lean more on like the skepticism side when it comes to trusting people, even though I mentioned earlier how great people are. But I also through the research have and and through talking and meeting people, have heard so many people who've been scammed out of stuff. And or, you know, oh, we'll make your book. So they someone pays them all this money, they make the book, and then it wasn't what they wanted, or they didn't market it, or whatever. So it can be diff very difficult. Um, you know, there were some certain websites and companies that we had looked into in the very beginning, and they just didn't sit well. You know, I do a lot of research on a company and like what is, you know, how reputable are you and stuff like that. I don't just go with anybody. Um, and so I wouldn't go with them. I was like, you know, just something's not right. You know, my grandpa said if it's not wrong, if it's not right, it's wrong. It's not wrong, it's right, you know, like it's it's here or there, right? So um if it if it's not sitting right with you, it's a no. And um, and so we really made sure, and it kind of goes into what I was saying, like I my books, I want them to look like the ones on Barnes Noble. You pick it up and you're like, one of them self-published, which one? I don't know. And so I had to use those same companies. I had to use the high quality, the reputable companies, and I did the research for that and the companies that have, you know, the teams behind them, the copyrights in place, not just somebody I found, you know, on Craigslist. Um and so you're gonna pay more that way. But again, what is your long term? You know, do you want if you just want a book that's to hand out to your family and that's it, then that's fine. But if you want an author career or any kind of career you want, you gotta get the, you know, work with the quality people. Um now that said, you know, you also have to hold your standards. I had um one of our very, very first books in the beginning. I had an illustrator. He was absolutely, absolutely wonderful, but found out later that he did some other art that didn't really align with the children's picture books. Now, most people probably would be like, so what, who cares? But I'm like, my standard is here, my morality is here, and there was nothing wrong with those pictures. They just, I just didn't want to commingle it. So I had to step away from it. So I think also like knowing like when to step away from something um to keep your standards and your, you know, your vision and values and everything.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Wow. That's hard. That that can be really hard. All right, so you're pretty solid in your convictions and your values. Is that who you've always been?

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Um, I think so. I think it's it has really um like nailed down since having kids, since becoming a mom. Um, you know, in college in your 20s, you're like, whatever, life is great. It's I'm free, you know, like nothing, every everything is is great. Um, but then when you become a parent and you're like, wow, I am I'm responsible for these other people. And I've I've I think too, I've always kind of been a rule follower. I've kind of always been, you know, um pretty aligned, but really as a parent, it comes full circle, and you're like, okay, what do I want? And um and what what message am I sending and all that kind of stuff? So that's really kind of I think strengthened all of that.

Screen Time Limits And Being Present

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Yeah, it's it's a lot easier to go ahead and figure out where you stand, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um what do you think is probably a the biggest waste of time that that we do in general that might be happening in publishing, um, in parenting, any of those aspects, what do you think is a really big waste of time?

SPEAKER_01 46:19

It's kind of a double. I don't know if I should answer that, honestly. I think, I think, well, I think in general, like we what do we do when we waste time? We grab our phones, we sit on our phones and we get sucked into this vortex. But at the same time, like you have to have it, right? Like, I've met incredible people on my social medias, incredible people. Uh, some of the biggest like people on my like, I call it my hype team, you know, like my cheerleaders. I met on some social media. We met, you know, on because of social media. So it's that's where I'm like, oh, it's like it's a balance, you know, because it can suck us in and it can bring us down and it can make us compare to others, or it can take an hour we're scrolling instead of doing work, right? Or we hand our phones to our kids, and now our kids are on a screen in the grocery store when that's a great educational learning moment and that they could be helping in the grocery and set them on a screen. So screens, you have to have a balance. So I think it's a it can be a huge waste of time, but it's also a very, very large percentage of like our life and our careers and our networking now. So I think you have to have a balance in that. But I would say that like if it's not used right, that can it can, it can, it can take your physical time, you know, your hour of being sent on social media, and it can also bring you down if you're comparing yourself to what somebody else is doing, and then you never go follow your goals because you're not where that person is right now. Um, and that would be the biggest waste of time because now you've not just wasted an hour, you've wasted years of not going after what could be really great.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Yeah, I I agree. And it's you know, you talk about the kids and your teachable moments and things like that, and if they're seeing you always reaching for the phone, then you kind of already taught without saying a word. Exactly, yeah. And I and you hear a lot of teachers and authors really struggle with the fact that kids aren't touching a book, they're touching a phone or touching something. What was it they were talking about? The the young kids, if they even looked at a page, they were trying to push a button or something like that. Is it touch screen? Yeah. So that's crazy. Yeah, I didn't have to deal with any of those. Now, your kids are still very young, but are you finding that you're having to deal with the phone situation even when they're that young?

SPEAKER_01 48:42

We don't give them our phones really. Um, and and I have been intentional now of like I plug my phone in, it's on the counter, kind of away from where we are. Um, sometimes I will have to pick it up, you know, it's inevitable, but but for the most part, my husband and I are both very intentional. Like we all have breakfast together in the mornings, there's no phones, dinner table, there's no phones, and afternoon we're all together, no phones. We're at T ball practice, I'm watching, no phones. So we don't really give it to them a lot. We don't give them screens a lot. They'll if, you know, like when we're traveling, right, there's different instances. But if we're at home on our regular day-to-day, like if if they're gonna watch something, it's gonna be a show on the TV, but we're not giving them tablets, we're not giving them phones. And even then the show is maybe once or twice a week. Um, we really limit a lot of that. Um just because we found it when there's a lot of TV or a lot of screens, it changes their brains and it changes their them emotionally and you know, mentally. And it's just it hasn't been a positive thing. And and there's just so many learning opportunities all around for kids, you know. Like I always I see, you know, we do a lot of markets and stuff, and there'll be kids in the stroller with the phone, and I'm just like, oh, just just don't know to take it back. Like they can be looking and and and talking, and it's just such a great opportunity for them right now.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

But yeah, so do you find too with your peers that it's kind of tough? I I can remember with our peers, even we didn't have those situations, but there were times when it was like you could look at people. I mean, I can remember like swimming, swimming time, and you'd look around and you'd be like, Man, I don't think I'm ever gonna get to sit on the pool side and read a book again.

unknown 50:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

And yeah, you know, there would be these people that weren't paying attention to their kids at all. Right. Did you ever find yourself with your own peers of like looking at them thinking differently to where it causes you to kind of between, you know, the friendships?

SPEAKER_01 50:41

I I have, and I've kind of had to tone down, I think, my my vocalness on it, um, in some senses, where I don't want to like I'm still convicted on like the screens, but I don't want it to interfere with my friendships because that's their parenting decision. And I don't, and and and we probably are maybe not extreme, but I think you know, if if our kids watched a little bit more TV, it'd probably be fine, right? Like, and everyone has to do what's right for them. Um, but I've had I've had you know friends come to me and be like, hey, I'm I'm noticing this behavior. And like I literally the same exact behavior when I took this the morning TV away, everything got better. Um, and like one thing I said, and you know, you say so much before you have kids, you're like, I'm never doing this, I'm never doing this. And then you have kids, you're like, I'm absolutely doing this. But one thing I, you know, told my husband, and I was like, I'm never, I do not want to be at out to eat at a restaurant, you know, and especially like absolutely not in our house. That was never even a question, but like at a restaurant and give the kids a tablet. Like, no, we are together at a family at the table. They can learn to order their own food, they can learn patience, we can bring coloring books, we can book, bring books. I can we can walk them outside if they really are rambunctious, you know, we can bring cards, whatever. But they're not gonna be, and that's one thing that we have not one time ever given them a screen at a at the at the table. And um, I'm really proud of that. And it's they know how to sit at a table. And sometimes, again, like we gotta go, they gonna need to go walk outside. Fine, right? Like take five minutes, or we'll bring cards or you know, search and find books. But we have been out to eat with friends and they'll hand their kid a phone to watch a show, and then my kids are like, Well, I want to go watch a show, and that's that's that's hard. Um, it hasn't happened too often, but I I have actually found that they tend to lean more into what we're doing versus the screen. I'm like, I'll go take everyone outside, like, let's go outside. I can go get a few steps in, you know. So um, yeah, I I find that kids lean more into being off the screen if that presents itself.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Oh, that's interesting. That's like I said, we didn't have that, but I do remember I I remember having um a particular friend, she's still my dearest friend today. And I can say this because we've talked about it. I had to at one point say, I will go to these places with you to eat, but we are not going to these other places because kids don't sit down. I'm having to sit there the whole time going, No, you may not get up. No, you may not run. Yeah, you may not. And it's like it's not fun for me. So we can go other places. So, you know, the park became our lunch place.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Because then it's like, yeah, run, run, run. Yeah, go free. Uh you just have to make those decisions, and sometimes they're really, really hard. Yeah. But would you say that maybe our daily actions really are who we are, and that's what makes up both our kids and ourselves?

SPEAKER_01 53:38

Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I think so for sure. Um, you know, what we are doing in is uh I read the other day, and I'm gonna I'm not gonna even get the quote correct at all, but it was like, I shouldn't even say it. I don't never mind, but it was it was something like that. Like, what are you what uh what is taking your attention? What is what are you thinking about at night? What has got you up, you know, and that is, and that could go either way. Like, is that telling you follow your dream and do something else? Or is that are you living your truth and your and your genius and what you're and what you want? And that's that's where I I feel like for my family, we're in a really good place now because we are. We have found a balance, and you know, other things of course have to sacrifice um for that balance, as in like maybe the it the business doesn't move forward as fast, you know, what would take could take a month, takes two months, whatever, but you have to find your balance. Um so you do have that. So you are living who you are, and your family is is who they are meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Yeah. What do you think you'll always need help with? Everything.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Um I I would say like uh prime example today. I so I'm gonna start a YouTube channel. It's something I've been wanting to do for a long time, but I've kind of just had to figure out what what I have a lot of different ideas, right? A lot of different YouTube channels. Like, I gotta start one, right? I'm gonna sit here and think about it and talk about it for years and years and years never gonna start. I gotta start. So I filmed videos and then told my husband, and I was like, I you know, I filmed them the wrong way. They weren't the right way. And he's like, Well, you can't post that, you gotta film it the right way. You gotta, you know. So I think like I will always need his advice on like the business side. Because again, I'm like, no, it'll show people this, that, and the other. He's like, no, you need to do, you know, so he kind of brings it back down to like, here's the business. So I will always need the business side of the help because I can live in a unicorn land and write these books.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

And but I'm glad you've got him in your corner. That's good. Yeah, yeah. So if this were your platform, you can shout about anything really loudly.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

What would be um for like if I'm talking to parents of kids and kind of that's where I'm at in my life, you know, is build their imaginations, their cure curiosity, and their confidence. Those are like my three biggest things because with imagination and curiosity, then they can think for themselves and they can be critical thinkers, and with the confidence, then they have the confidence to to share their ideas and to go after their dreams and you know, and to all those thoughts and all those ideas that they have from using their imagination and being curious with the confidence they can vocalize it and um and know that they matter and that they are important and that and that they can follow their dreams too.

Where To Find The Books And Closing

SPEAKER_00 56:39

That's awesome. Ashley, how do people find you? How do they find your books?

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Um, so well, we're of course on Amazon, but we have our website, which is mama bearbooks.com. Um, I'm on social media. I I post pretty regularly on Instagram, so it's author Ashley Wall, it's the same for Facebook too. And then we have Mama Bear on ShortBooks for our website um for our publishing company handle.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

And if somebody needed to get in touch with you publishing wise, you're open to talk to them about that.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Yeah, there's submissions, there's a whole page for that on our website.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Awesome. Got one more question for you.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Um, well, two. One, is there anything we haven't talked about that we um you want to make sure that we do cover?

SPEAKER_01 57:27

I don't think so. I think we kind of really hit a lot of stuff. You had some good questions.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

We went all over the place, which I love. Yeah. Um, and then my then my last question is if you had a superpower and you were able to use it professionally or personally, you can only have it for 24 hours. Oh what superpower would you choose? How would you use it? And why would that be your choice? Oh my gosh, I need more time to think about this one.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Um let's see, what are all the different superpowers? Like speed, you could do a lot of things at once, flying. Um, I I mean, I don't, I don't know exactly what my superpower is, but if I could do something, I would want it to help others in some way, you know, help kids. I've always had just such a strong passion for kids, and in particular, really underprivileged kids. I'm definitely probably going on a tangent here. Um, or maybe I'm avoiding part of the question. But I've always had like a uh I worked in, you know, inner city schools a lot, and uh, those kids are absolutely incredible, absolutely amazing. But the discrepancies in their education and their schools are for like the suburbs and the wealthy areas, it's it's wild, you know. Um, but they're just as capable and just as smart and just as deserving. And so they're so amazing. So I don't know exactly maybe what my super power would be, but it would be something to like help kids. Like, I don't know, can I speed, get a whole bunch of books in the kids' hands in the inner city or what? But it would, yeah, it would be something to just to help um help for their kids, especially the kids, you know, in the underserved areas.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

Uh that's awesome. Ashley, this has been great. And uh thank you so very much. And a little bit of a following and seeing more and seeing what comes out.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

Thank you. Your insight, you have brought so much insight.

SPEAKER_04 59:24

To the bees of my own drama.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Find Stat Keys Podcast on Spotify, SoundCloud, and iTunes, or anywhere you get your favorite podcast, listen. You'll laugh out loud, you'll cry a little, you'll find yourself encouraged. Join us for casual conversation that leads itself based on where we take it, from family to philosophy to work to meal prep to beautifully surviving life. And hey, if I could ask a big favor of you, go to iTunes and give us a five rating. The more people who rate us, the more we get this podcast out there. Thanks. I appreciate it.